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[04:14] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Scout Sunday"
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[05:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Costyn van Dongen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Scout Sunday"
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[06:30] <griffonbot> @daveake: Photos from yesterday's "Frog in Space" flight fo 5th Hucknall Scouts http://t.co/w46JimYf #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/229826208957874176]
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[06:31] <griffonbot> @daveake: Video of the inflation from yesterday's launch - http://t.co/O0KcUEqC #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/229826591922987008]
[06:37] Nick change: bowkis -> number10
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[07:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Scout Sunday"
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[08:00] <nosebleedkt_> number10: hi :p
[08:00] <number10> hello nosebleedkt_
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[08:11] <griffonbot> Received email: DutchMillbt . "[UKHAS] Re: Launch in Southern Germany"
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[08:55] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Scout Sunday"
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[09:32] <griffonbot> @daveake: Balloon launch preparation from yesterday http://t.co/nPej1EZK #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/229872043779297280]
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[09:48] <navrac> I want to go on one of Daveakes launches - a very classy affair by the looks of it - even the cardboard boxes are 'Fresh Quail Eggs'
[09:48] <daveake> lol
[09:48] <daveake> That was the scouts' box
[09:50] <navrac> I'm looking out for some old beluga caviar tins to 'accidently' leave around in the launch photos
[09:50] <daveake> :)
[09:52] <navrac> I couldnt track your launch - almighty great thunderstorm came over - had to drop the mast down very quickly.
[09:53] <navrac> its amazing how fast you can get them down when its tipping with rain and the lightnings getting closer
[09:56] <gonzo_> wonder if smoked salmon could ever replace bacon bitties?
[09:56] <gonzo_> u
[09:57] <fsphil> noooo
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[09:59] <navrac> possibly butties for the launch then smoke salmon and cream cheese bagel picnic for the recovery on sunny days
[10:00] <number10> is that an offer navrac , when is the launch
[10:00] <navrac> kept in a basket on the boot of the vintage MG chase car
[10:01] <navrac> I wish
[10:02] <navrac> between another last minute panic job thats come in and designing a pressure release valve ~I dont think I'm going to be launching till October now
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[10:03] <daveake> I'd use the Elise as a chase car if it had any steel to stick an aerial on :)
[10:04] <LazyLeopard> The problems of composite construction?
[10:05] <LazyLeopard> How well, I wonder, does carbon-fibre bodywork work as a gound-plane...
[10:05] <daveake> dunno, but this is fibre-glass
[10:06] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Not at all, then. ;)
[10:06] <daveake> :)
[10:08] <gonzo_> when we went out to find number10's pico, we were in a fibreglass kit (on a vintage chassis)!
[10:08] <gonzo_> and FG is RF transparent, so gps and radio works great in the car!
[10:09] <griffonbot> @daveake: Video of the payload recovery yesterday: http://t.co/2uwf6dEu #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/229881434486235136]
[10:09] <gonzo_> It was in the middle of the fuel panic, so that was the only car with enough fuel in.
[10:10] <daveake> hah
[10:10] <daveake> The Elise wouldn't have got to the launch site yesterday - not enough ground clearance
[10:11] <daveake> The 4x4 will be ready for next time
[10:11] <gonzo_> nice, one of our gropup used to have one. But had to sell when he reached 9pts
[10:12] <daveake> I'm on zero, but only by the narrowest of margins ...
[10:12] <daveake> ... got a speed awareness course soon, 64 in a 50. 65 and it'd have been 3 points.
[10:12] <gonzo_> three were for being caught driving with a surf board towereing out of the roof. Real police-camera-action type silly trick
[10:13] <daveake> lol
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[10:13] <gonzo_> oops. Well suppose it's a lesson learned
[10:14] <gonzo_> (to have a non reflecty num,berplate so they can;t get easy laser reflection)
[10:14] <daveake> :D
[10:15] <gonzo_> mine is based on an old spitfire chassis, so speeding points are sometjing to aspire to
[10:15] <daveake> :-)
[10:15] <daveake> This was in the Pug rather than the Elise.
[10:15] <daveake> But that's quite quick too
[10:16] <daveake> Not much chance of getting a ticket in the Shogun :)
[10:17] <gonzo_> looks like it was an easy recoverty yesterday, looking at the spacenearus
[10:18] <daveake> Very
[10:18] <daveake> Bit slow getting there - took a wrong turn / stopped at a strange sign to take photos / had a chinwag with the scouts
[10:19] <daveake> But when we got there, we turned right from the road onto the track and there was the parachute in front of us
[10:21] <MrScienceMan> http://i.imgur.com/nuGYP.gif
[10:23] <gonzo_> makes a nice change.
[10:23] <gonzo_> I did see the power lines a mile away
[10:23] <costyn> MrScienceMan: haha
[10:24] <gonzo_> I had a check on my reg shelf and looks like I have an H2 reg already. Convenient
[10:24] <daveake> We got part of a packet at 100m up before it died suddenly. I was pretty confident it wasn't up a tree or hanging from a cable
[10:24] <daveake> nice
[10:24] <MrScienceMan> costyn: that gifs puts a smile on my face
[10:24] <MrScienceMan> gif*
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[10:34] <costyn> MrScienceMan: worked for me :)
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[10:58] <gonzo_> just for the record, enquiry with AP, their H2 prices look sto be 13% higher than the prices dave have me for BOC (£44+vat +£15))
[10:58] <daveake> ok, ta, interesting
[10:58] <Laurenceb> for how much?
[10:58] <daveake> I was told by the guy at the BOC depot that BOC make the H2 for AP
[10:58] <gonzo_> and AP do not have a bottle hire period included, they charge 32p/day from day one
[10:59] <daveake> oh
[10:59] Action: Laurenceb thought of an evil suicide technique
[10:59] <daveake> Same capacity cylinder?
[10:59] <Laurenceb> inhale H2/O2 mix and light a match
[10:59] <gonzo_> They quoted £50 and £18 handling. All plus vat
[10:59] <daveake> BOC K is 7.2
[10:59] <gonzo_> rrr 7.2m^3
[10:59] <daveake> btw BOC and AP threads are the same
[10:59] <Laurenceb> thats enough for a few balloons
[11:00] <daveake> 2
[11:00] <daveake> depends of course, but so far I've got 2 out of one
[11:00] <eroomde> it does depend. that's about 0.3 of the last proper hab i launched
[11:01] <daveake> :)
[11:03] <gonzo_> I've emailed them for confirmation fo the thread size, but webshite info seems to refer to G3/8 LH. (That's for a smaller bottle)
[11:03] <daveake> That does sound very familiar
[11:03] <griffonbot> @daveake: RT @FarnellNews: Nice #raspi project: PIE1  #RaspberryPi Sends Live Images from Near Space via @daveake http://t.co/qP3ZhdbP #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/229895024559677440]
[11:03] <gonzo_> if it's same as an acetelyne then I have a reg
[11:08] <nosebleedkt_> visual coverage at highest altitude: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/334280_498415850172464_1309149794_o.jpg
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[11:14] <nosebleedkt_> radius: 215km
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[11:19] <cuddykid> hi all - looks like there has been a lot of HAB activity whilst I've been away! Congrats daveake with PIE1 - great success by the looks of it :)
[11:20] <daveake> Yeah that was a good one :)
[11:21] <daveake> Where you been?
[11:21] <cuddykid> Florida :) been lovely and warm
[11:22] <cuddykid> saw that Upu's vid had over 10000 views! :O
[11:22] <daveake> Not jealous. Not jealous. Not jealous.
[11:22] <cuddykid> lol
[11:22] <daveake> Well over 20,000 for Julie's
[11:22] <cuddykid> nice
[11:23] <cuddykid> think I've missed the 1 week of UK summer which I've been told occurred last week here :(
[11:23] <costyn> cuddykid: well you were in Florida, you have no rights to complain ;)
[11:24] <cuddykid> :P
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[11:59] <daveake> ping number10
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[12:31] <number10> pong daveake
[12:31] <daveake> Did yesterday's launch site seem to be in familiar territory to you?
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[12:31] <daveake> http://youtu.be/HIeXb7dFMig
[12:32] <number10> didnt look close up - was it near to last landing site
[12:32] <daveake> Sorry wrong link :)
[12:32] <daveake> Yeo
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[12:32] <daveake> http://imgur.com/mDuSj
[12:32] <daveake> 5.3 miles by road from where Buzz landed on that hill
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[12:33] <number10> isnt that a coincidence
[12:33] <daveake> yup
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[12:52] <costyn> daveake: this was my setup yesterday for listening to Buzz: http://i.imgur.com/9zsNgh.jpg?1 had some spare time at the in-laws :)
[12:54] <daveake> :)
[12:54] <costyn> I'd forgotten my usb audio dongle, so I put the laptop microphone next to the radio speaker, worked ok
[12:55] <daveake> !!
[12:55] <daveake> But that's what people did years ago - acoustic couples on phones
[12:55] <costyn> laptop has no mic or line in... wel it has a mic in, but it's integrated with the headphone jack
[12:55] <costyn> yea :)
[12:56] <nick_> New sensors to play with :D bit.ly/MG30Jul2012
[13:04] <fsphil> MSL getting close :)
[13:05] <daveake> Yes, not long now :)
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[14:31] <griffonbot> Received email: gonzo_ "[UKHAS] Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote control HABs"
[14:33] <Darkside> gonzo_: YOU ARE THE MAN
[14:33] <fsphil> hah
[14:34] <Darkside> thats awesome
[14:34] <Darkside> it's not a 'go ahead'
[14:34] <Darkside> it seems more like a 'if tou don't cause interference, you should be ok"
[14:35] <Laurenceb> holy legalise
[14:35] <costyn> very nice
[14:37] <gonzo_> Yep, I can see them not wanting to commit, but the sentiment is there.
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[14:37] <nigelvh> Morning all
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[14:39] <SpeedEvil> is that on the downlink side? oddly seem not to have the original email.
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[14:40] <Darkside> it opens the door to some higher power uplink stuff, for cutdowns
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> oh
[14:40] <Darkside> and might encourage some development in a GMSK modulator we can plug into existing SSB transmitters
[14:40] <Darkside> development into*
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[14:41] <nigelvh> I have to say that was a really well put together inquiry.
[14:42] <costyn> cleverly left out the bit about us already using unlicensed bands to transmit data to the ground :)
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[14:42] <nigelvh> Is that against the rules?
[14:42] <nigelvh> If not, then why does it matter?
[14:43] <fsphil> the downlink part is perfectly legal
[14:43] <nigelvh> That was my understanding
[14:43] <fsphil> we where not sure about uplinking from amateur equipment
[14:43] <nigelvh> It's just that those details are not pertinent to the question.
[14:44] <Darkside> the ERP limits are annoying
[14:44] <Darkside> and make the uplink extremely difficult
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[14:45] <Darkside> you need a few hundred mW ERP to reliably be received by a RFM22B
[14:45] <Darkside> over a 40-50km path
[14:46] <number10> you are not alowed to boradcast - so as long as you send a message from HAMa to HAMb, and it is not coded so thet the meaning is hidden and HAB just happens to hear it then everythings OK
[14:46] <Darkside> did you see the email?
[14:47] <number10> well did you wright that already Darkside - everso sorry to duplicat the info old chap
[14:47] <fsphil> can you send a message to HAMa to HAMa?
[14:47] <nigelvh> Why not?
[14:48] <number10> well I talk to myself quite frequetly :)
[14:48] <nigelvh> If I have two stations, or a station and a repeater under my control, doesn't that count as a transmit from me to me?
[14:49] <fsphil> I don't ssdv tests on 2m, and I know for a fact nobody nearby is decoding them :)
[14:49] <fsphil> I don't/ I've done
[14:49] <number10> just looking at my spelling its bad.. :(
[14:50] <fsphil> you're in good company :)
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[14:50] <ms7821> interesting...
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[14:51] <navrac> nice one gonzo
[14:52] <navrac> I got 40km out of 100mW from an rfm22b via a ahem 6db antenna - by accident of course
[14:52] <navrac> I inadvertantly got my +/- db's backward
[14:52] <Darkside> heh
[14:53] <Darkside> i've managed to uplink to a balloon above me using a 1/4 wave and 100mW
[14:53] <Darkside> balloon was at about 30km at the time
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[14:55] <navrac> well it does open up a lot of interesting opportunities - now how do i get a license in the UK? is it still just sit the exam or do you have to be a club member and have practical stuff as well nowdays
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[14:59] <SamSilver> 10 000 HAB point to gonzo_ / gonzo_mob
[15:04] <eroomde> i just came on to say that
[15:05] <Darkside> hey eroomde
[15:05] <gonzo_> 10000 points! That could even balance out the -ve 10000 for letting a pico overfly the local airport!
[15:06] <Darkside> i really don't think transmitting up to a hab to cut it down is going to be a problem.
[15:06] <gonzo_> navrac, you can get a foundation licence with a 1-2 day course at a local club.
[15:06] <Darkside> "However, if you should receive reports that you are causing interference due
[15:06] <Darkside> to any signal emanating from the balloon, you should cease transmission as
[15:06] <Darkside> quickly as practicable."
[15:07] <eroomde> Darkside: yes i read the email
[15:07] <eroomde> thanks
[15:07] <Darkside> i think that says it all
[15:07] <gonzo_> Intermediate license is an exam and practical test
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[15:07] <gonzo_> full license is an exam
[15:07] <Darkside> oh wait, they mention balloon
[15:07] <Darkside> lol
[15:07] <Darkside> oh well
[15:07] <gonzo_> don't need to actually join a club for them, but if they are running the long courses, then it's usuall;y an idea to join
[15:08] <oh7lzb> do they actually say you could transmit from the balloon, then?
[15:08] <navrac> well for low power uhf i guess a foundation is enough - trouble is my local club are all a bit err how should we say closed minded ignorant idiots
[15:08] <navrac> actually - that is only what i've heard, i guess i should find out for myself
[15:08] <Darkside> i;d probably err on the side of not trnasmitting at higher powers from a balloon
[15:09] <Darkside> but transmitting an uplink command from the ground should be ok
[15:09] <navrac> thats how i read it
[15:09] <nigelvh> Yeah, that part seemed pretty clear, no HAM transmissions from the balloon, but transmissions from ground to an incidental reciever are OK.
[15:09] <oh7lzb> is there a mailing list archive that I could look at?
[15:09] <oh7lzb> the message
[15:09] <gonzo_> I call them, grumpy old men. All clubs suffer them
[15:10] <Darkside> ok sleep time for me
[15:10] <Darkside> 73s all
[15:10] <gonzo_> it's all on the UKHAS google group
[15:10] <gonzo_> gn
[15:11] <costyn> oh7lzb: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ukhas/nDoeUX7OqYs
[15:12] <eroomde> it's annoying tho they they're being all civil service cover-your-arse about it
[15:12] <eroomde> 'probably... but get a proper lawyer'
[15:12] <eroomde> would be nice if they could say YES, This is legal subject to normal rules about interfering with others
[15:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Adrian Hicks "Re: [UKHAS] Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
[15:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "Re: [UKHAS] Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
[15:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
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[15:36] <oh7lzb> costyn: thanks
[15:50] <fsphil> "it is not for
[15:50] <fsphil> Ofcom to decide matters of interpretation of a licence"
[15:50] <fsphil> odd, didn't they write it?
[15:52] <fsphil> they avoided talking about an NoV too
[15:56] <nigelvh> Yeah, I found that odd. Isn't their interpretation the only one that really matters?
[16:03] <Upu> you can get a NoV
[16:04] <Upu> so you could do all manner of interesting stuff
[16:05] <Upu> btw if you check the license carefully it says you may only transmit to other Amateur (note capitalisation) then later on it defines Amateurs as holders of a UK license
[16:06] <Upu> the implication you can't talk to people outside the uK
[16:06] <oh7lzb> haha
[16:08] <gonzo_> I asked RSGB about that. They said that OFCOM can only refer in the licenct to things under their control. So refer only to UK licences
[16:09] <gonzo_> I suspect it was actually an oversight, but no-one is going to rock the boat
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[16:13] <Upu> its interesting as M0PGE at my local club raised the issue of remote controlling balloons
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[16:18] <gonzo_> what was his interest?
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[16:28] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: MONDO launch..."
[16:28] <griffonbot> Received email: gonzo_ "[UKHAS] Re: Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
[16:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Pablo Verity "Re: [UKHAS] Launch this weekend"
[16:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "Re: [UKHAS] Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
[16:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Rob "Re: [UKHAS] Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
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[16:41] Action: daveake reminds himself to go get a licence
[16:44] <fsphil> it's really easy, you'd manage it with your eyes closed
[16:44] <number10> may burn fingers during soldering practical
[16:45] <daveake> Well I've been asleep the last 4 hours, so where is it?
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[16:46] <daveake> Yeah, I got the "books" for the foundation and intermediate. Simples.
[16:46] <number10> you mispelt your name so unfortunately failed
[16:46] <daveake> I have alternate spellings :-)
[16:47] <daveake> Actually my birth certificate was wrong (Ack.. not Ak...) and I had to get that fixed
[16:47] <fsphil> I put a dot on the answer sheet instead of a tick, so nearly failed on the first question :)
[16:47] <daveake> Then when we got married, they had to tear up the 1st 3 certificates because of the same mistake
[16:48] <daveake> nice fsphil :)
[16:48] <fsphil> love the look I got when I handed it in :)
[16:48] <nick_> I know a girl who's first name is spelt wrong because her dad made one mistake registering the birth
[16:49] <gonzo_> magrat garlic ?
[16:49] <daveake> I'm suire there's a joke coming here ...
[16:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Crump "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
[16:51] <Gadget-Mac> Evening all
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[17:02] <JamesBurton> Hello
[17:03] <Upu> hi JamesBurton the answer to your next question is "probably on the wiki"
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[17:03] <Upu> afk :)
[17:03] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:05] <JamesBurton> Hello Upu I know about "on the wiki" but a have not got a question to ask i want to tell everyone Hello is that ok
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[17:09] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[17:10] <nosebleedkt_> 3 newspapers called me to give an interview
[17:10] <nosebleedkt_> funny life
[17:11] mclane (4fcf5ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[17:11] <nick_> About what?
[17:11] <nosebleedkt_> for my mission and because nasa made one picture with olympus - epod
[17:12] <nick_> cool
[17:12] <nosebleedkt_> fsphil !!!!
[17:12] Nick change: danielsaul -> priyeshclone
[17:13] Nick change: priyeshclone -> danielsaul
[17:13] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ did you get a good image of olympus
[17:20] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ Very Hot in Greece ( Zakynthos )
[17:31] <mclane> Question to the GoPro users: do you use some kind of additional battery pack? If yes, what are you using?
[17:33] <daveake> Yes you need one
[17:33] <daveake> I don't have a GoPro so I can say which one, but I've seen them used twice. 4.5 hours run time I think
[17:36] <LazyLeopard> Cool, nosebleedkt_ ;)
[17:40] <Gadget-Mac> Ok, Is it possible to get flightpath predictions (I can't see anything on the wiki) easily ?
[17:40] <daveake> http://habhub.org/predict/
[17:41] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac: it's ok, you're not at risk of being wiki-policed
[17:41] <eroomde> :)
[17:41] <Gadget-Mac> eroomde: Thanks :)
[17:41] <fsphil> heya nosebleedkt_
[17:41] <nosebleedkt_> yo
[17:41] <eroomde> it's never really been 'a thing' until recently where some people have asked 20 questions in a row whose ever answer has been on a wiki page that they've already been pointed to several times
[17:42] <Gadget-Mac> daveake: Thanks for thep ointer
[17:42] <eroomde> it's obviously not expected that you'll completely digest the entire thing
[17:47] <Gadget-Mac> Sure.
[17:47] <Gadget-Mac> So, my AOR AR8000 has been shipped :)
[17:48] <eroomde> awesome-sauce
[17:48] <eroomde> they are nice units
[17:48] <Gadget-Mac> Wondering how big a co-lin I can get away with
[17:48] <eroomde> hmm, Darkside's pre-amp, which upu is selling, for improving the sentitivity of the usb software radio dongles, might work v nicely on the aor8000 too
[17:49] <Gadget-Mac> Oh ?
[17:49] <Gadget-Mac> URL ?
[17:49] <eroomde> though the aor8000 is much more sensitive anyway
[17:49] <eroomde> than the dongles
[17:49] <eroomde> will just try and find it
[17:49] <fsphil> don't think there is a link yet
[17:50] <eroomde> as i say, the aor8000 is a great scanner anyway and probably doesn't need it
[17:50] <fsphil> they're still a work in progress
[17:50] <Gadget-Mac> Want to try SDR, but figured a Reciever was the best way to start. At this rate I'll be back on the air by the end of the summer :)
[17:50] <eroomde> but for that time when you're really struggling to decode, might be fun to try and pre-amp/filter
[17:50] <eroomde> ah right
[17:50] <eroomde> ok
[17:50] <eroomde> work in progress
[17:50] <eroomde> :)
[17:50] <fsphil> well finished, needing tested
[17:51] <fsphil> next launch when I'm here I'll be in the attic with the spiders, swapping in and out the preamp
[17:51] <fsphil> the signal is always on the edge of decoding so it'll be a good test
[17:52] <JamesBurton> Do you think a need a dictionary everyone
[17:52] <fsphil> Buzz got decoded really well on just a funcube dongle + homebrew 70cm dipole
[17:52] <Gadget-Mac> Nice :)
[17:52] <fsphil> although it was closer than most of the cambridge lanuches
[17:52] <fsphil> closer to me*
[17:52] <LazyLeopard> Heh ;)
[17:52] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: where's home ?
[17:52] <fsphil> well technically all of them
[17:52] <fsphil> unless they temporarly move cambridge
[17:53] <fsphil> Gadget-Mac, n.ireland
[17:53] <Gadget-Mac> Nice. Thats quite impressive
[17:53] <Upu> mclane there is an additional battery pack it gives about 4.5hours, don't put the GoPro in its housing or it will steam up
[17:54] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac: where are you based?
[17:54] <Gadget-Mac> Wolverhampton
[17:55] <eroomde> ah cool
[17:55] <eroomde> well positioned for most uk flights
[17:55] <mclane> upu: will try that next time - we just had 1.5h of coverage during our flight last Saturday; so we missed the "stratospheric" part ;-(
[17:56] <eroomde> moar burst videos
[17:57] <fsphil> the battery pac is quite neat
[17:57] <Upu> mclane it does make a big difference and isn't that large
[17:58] <Upu> you get new housing with it too
[17:58] <Upu> but don't use it
[17:58] <Upu> and double don't use the antimist strips
[17:58] <fsphil> wouldn't the unsealed back stop misting?
[17:58] <Upu> possibly yes
[17:59] <Upu> Steve advises not to use one
[17:59] <Upu> interestingly the one that ended up in the sea and was picked up by a passing boat ?
[17:59] <Upu> that had a gopro on it
[17:59] <Upu> and I suspect 5 rings too...
[17:59] <mclane> anyways, I did not use the housing this time with no issues
[18:03] <mclane> I also thought about using 4 Energizer Li Ultimate with some sort of regulator instead - someone tried that?
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[18:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
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[18:34] <JamesBurton> What is this about Ofcom position on use of Amateur licence to remote
[18:35] <JamesBurton> dakeake
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[18:39] <fsphil> any launches this weekend?
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[18:40] <daveake> not that I know of
[18:40] <JamesBurton> Does it work
[18:40] <mattbrejza> calender says no
[18:41] <fsphil> the notam map is busy in the south
[18:41] <mattbrejza> olympics?
[18:41] <JamesBurton> Yes
[18:42] <mattbrejza> you would have thought they only needed one
[18:43] <daveake> Actually ...
[18:43] <JamesBurton> http://notaminfo.com/ukmap
[18:43] <daveake> .... I ought to get some foil balloons from Steve
[18:43] <daveake> In case I have enough He left for one :)
[18:43] <daveake> I have a possibly dodgy tracker I should get rid of one way or another
[18:43] <Hiena> Hehehehe...
[18:44] <daveake> right, order will be in soon :)
[18:44] <number10> did you use party balloon small canister for last pico daveake, or left overs?
[18:44] <mattbrejza> not going for a 100g balloon daveake ?
[18:44] <JamesBurton> dakeake were do you look at motam
[18:44] <daveake> Oh, could do
[18:45] <fsphil> ddo hwoyee make 100g balloons? they could probably get to 30km ....
[18:47] <daveake> number10 Yes, the larger disposible one
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[18:48] <mattbrejza> yea hwoyee do 10g through 2000g
[18:48] <daveake> evening RocketBoy
[18:49] <RocketBoy> yo
[18:49] <daveake> Relaxed now?
[18:49] <daveake> That 800g Hwoyee did rather well yesterday. 35.5km
[18:50] <daveake> About 6km more than the calcs said
[18:50] <JamesBurton> daveake will you be trieding for 50 km
[18:50] <JamesBurton> or 40 km
[18:50] <daveake> 5
[18:51] <JamesBurton> daveake 5 What
[18:51] <daveake> guess
[18:52] <fsphil> 100km! </dr.evil>
[18:52] <daveake> :)
[18:52] <daveake> Damn, Steve's out of stock :(
[18:53] <fsphil> the foils?
[18:53] <daveake> yeah
[18:53] <daveake> foiled again
[18:53] <fsphil> I've a couple here if you want 'em
[18:53] <JamesBurton> XABEN-24 - 42687m (140049 ft)
[18:53] <fsphil> be a while before I launch
[18:53] <fsphil> not from steve though, got of ebay
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[18:54] <JamesBurton> dakeake guess ( http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records )
[18:54] <RocketBoy> Ah itI was wondering if its realy wrth me carring foil balloons
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[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:55] <fsphil> yo LL
[18:55] <mattbrejza> has the olympic rings in space riddle been solved yet?
[18:55] <daveake> fsphil Ah, I see them on ebay
[18:55] <daveake> Well, I might as well get one there rather than you post it
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> how are you all?
[18:56] <fsphil> true
[18:56] <JamesBurton> OK
[18:56] <fsphil> I'm still waiting on the little He tank
[18:56] <fsphil> I bought it of some guy called He Man
[18:56] <daveake> RocketBoy Well, I probably have some He left in the cylinder, and I have that dodgy tracker that stopped twice when being beaten by your record flight :p, so I thought I might as well get rid of both together :)
[18:56] <fsphil> I think he was taking steroids
[18:56] <daveake> lol
[18:58] <JamesBurton> dakeake do you have images or videos from your balloon launch to sunday
[18:58] <fsphil> good guide on filling them on the wiki, I'd have never thought to put the filling tube all the way into the balloon
[18:58] <daveake> JamesBurton I'll post a blog entry with links in due course
[18:59] <JamesBurton> dakeake ok thank you i just asking
[18:59] <daveake> fsphil Yeah, it's not obvious till it's obvious, IYSWIM
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[19:06] <JamesBurton> daveake How much people does it to launch i balloon
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[19:06] <daveake> Can you please ask general questions to the group rather than specific people (especially me)?
[19:07] <daveake> Answer: 1, if you know what you're doing
[19:07] <daveake> And it's not too windy
[19:09] <daveake> From the above then for a first launch, >1, obviously
[19:09] <JamesBurton> thank you for askwer my question dakeake sorry for keep asking you
[19:11] <JamesBurton> Go Off . Bye for Now
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[19:12] <JamesBurton> Bye Going Off Now See you tomorrrow
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[19:13] <daveake> Looking forward to it </lie_mode>
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[19:13] <fsphil> he's a smeeeee heeeeed?
[19:14] <SamSilver_> sounded more like a threat
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> "Hi I saw the spacex flight and elon musk flew a cheese in the dragon capsule can i buy a cheese at LIDL and fly it on HAB into space? thx!"
[19:15] <daveake> He's a big cheese
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> XD HAB at LIDL
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[19:19] <daveake> I'm suddenly feeling peckish. Esurient in fact.
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[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[19:20] <MrScienceMan> anyone had problems getting ezcap dongle to work under windows/
[19:21] <fsphil> yea, I couldn't get it working. works fine in linux though
[19:21] <daveake> Been OK for me
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUagi4Hj7MY&list=UUwLbAytnYpEVbryZurOL8cg&index=1&feature=plcp
[19:21] <fsphil> the software just refused to see it
[19:21] <daveake> You need to do that driver swap thing
[19:22] <daveake> I followed Upu's step-by-step and it worked
[19:22] <daveake> I made 1 mistake which was to not use the dev version of SDR#
[19:22] <daveake> W7 64, in case it makes a difference
[19:23] <MrScienceMan> fsphil: apperantly, the author of sdrsharp no longer developers the lib
[19:23] <MrScienceMan> so you need to get it from osmocom
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[19:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: MONDO launch..."
[19:40] <MrScienceMan> fsphil: got it working
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> hi MrScienceMan , you asked about the BMP085 yesterday?
[19:40] <MrScienceMan> yeh, i was thinking of adding on my board
[19:41] <fsphil> arg, Firefox just deleted my 4gb download
[19:41] <MrScienceMan> wget -c is your friend
[19:41] <fsphil> the file is gone
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> what do you have on your board so far?
[19:42] <fsphil> I had wget'ed the rest of it after firefox failed, but when I restarted firefox it deleted it
[19:42] <MrScienceMan> GPS radio and temp sensor
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:42] <MrScienceMan> , --^
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[20:00] <daveake> BBC2 now: Horizon about the Curiosity rover
[20:01] <daveake> 10 million HAB points to the first person to recreate that landing procedure :)
[20:01] <fsphil> ta
[20:04] <fsphil> well, it will reach the surface...
[20:05] <daveake> :)
[20:06] <daveake> Hopefully not earlier than planned
[20:06] <nigelvh> Depending on how high, I expect it will reach it at a speed and time derived from 9.8m/s/s
[20:07] <nigelvh> (Hopefully not the rover though, I've got good hopes for that thing)
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[20:09] <BackHive> Hey ! Anybody here ?
[20:09] <BackHive> Tet 123
[20:09] <fsphil> hiya BackHive
[20:10] <daveake> fail 404
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[20:10] <BackHive> Hi fs phil ?
[20:10] <BackHive> Im new here, I was told this is a good place to find info on a space ballon project....
[20:11] Action: daveake wonders if Lunar_Lander will change his nick on 6th August
[20:11] <fsphil> it can be, best bet is to read through the ukhas wiki first to get some ideas
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> MSL?
[20:11] <daveake> Your choice :)
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:12] <fsphil> BackHive: http://ukhas.org.uk/
[20:12] <BackHive> Well I do have some ideas, but what Im really looking for is info regarding tracking and the tx of gps telemetry
[20:12] <fsphil> Martian_Lander
[20:13] <BackHive> Im poised to buy an Arduino and GPS shield
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:13] <fsphil> be careful when you get a gps module, not all of them operate at high altitudes
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> BackHive, please give your country so that appropiate help can be issued
[20:14] <fsphil> anything with a ublox module will be ok
[20:14] <BackHive> I am in Dublin, Ireland. Do I need to bang that in somewhere ?
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> thank you
[20:14] <fsphil> not the best place to launch :)
[20:15] <fsphil> there's a lot of wet stuff to your east
[20:15] <BackHive> Yes, I am a little aware that it needs to work above 60k feet (or whatever the usual cutoff is).
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[20:15] <BackHive> Yes, dont tell me about the wx here!!!! but I do plan on releasing from the west of Ireland.... pending the usual wind dir of course.
[20:15] <fsphil> have you talked with the IAA at all? last time I talked with them, they said they don't allow launches
[20:16] <daveake> David O'Miller?
[20:16] <BackHive> I rang last year, the last time I was seriously planning this and there wasnt a prob. Ultimately the OKed it but asked that I rang Shannon ATC an hour or two before the launch so all seemed OK
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[20:17] <fsphil> Tony Harkin was my contact in the IAA
[20:17] <BackHive> Yes, that name rings a bell. I have it noted down somewhere.
[20:18] <BackHive> He sounded fine, no prob. gave good advice.
[20:18] <fsphil> bah, what is it with avaition authorities and them not liking me :)
[20:18] <BackHive> Where are you ?
[20:18] <fsphil> I'm up in N.Ireland
[20:18] <BackHive> Well the IAA are often known, among the GA community here as the 'Idiots Against Aviation' !!
[20:18] <BackHive> Ah right.
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:18] <daveake> fsphil There must be a network of AAs that have you down as a baddun' :)
[20:18] <BackHive> hehe
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> DFS too?
[20:19] <BackHive> fsphil.... does the FS refer to Flight Sim by any chance ?
[20:19] <Upu> anyone know about fuses and AVR's ? I have a AVR that should be using the internal oscilator but my programmer won't speak to it, keeps saying device signature 0x000000
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[20:19] <Upu> hye Lunar evening
[20:21] <fsphil> BackHive: nah, firestorm - my old website
[20:21] <daveake> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=93610&start=0 any help?
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, wait
[20:21] <Upu> hmm
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> you had that robot Firestorm on Robot Wars?
[20:21] <BackHive> ah right..... So do you have any suggestions with regard to a gps module etc. ?
[20:21] <fsphil> nah that wasn't me
[20:22] <fsphil> BackHive: anything with a ublox, like the modules here: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[20:22] <fsphil> they're the most popular modules
[20:22] <Upu> no don't think so daveake
[20:22] <BackHive> what does ublox refer to ?
[20:22] <Upu> make of GPS module
[20:22] <fsphil> they work all the way up, only require them to be set to the right flight mode
[20:22] <daveake> ok
[20:23] <BackHive> oh right, so all of those go high alt ?
[20:23] <Upu> with the correct flight mode set yes
[20:23] <BackHive> OK , i see
[20:23] <daveake> prog cable right way round?
[20:23] <fsphil> the ublox-5 and ublox-6 certainly do, dunno about the older ones
[20:23] <Upu> well
[20:23] <Upu> yes
[20:23] <BackHive> OK thanks
[20:23] <BackHive> SO what about RTTY transmission, I assume the code punched into the arduino handles that ?
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:24] <fsphil> indeed
[20:24] <daveake> thought so, but had to ask :)
[20:24] <BackHive> good stuff!
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[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> other modes work that way too afaik
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. Hellschreiber
[20:25] <fsphil> we vary the voltage into the radio module (NTX2) just the right amount
[20:25] <fsphil> the output frequency varies with the input voltage
[20:26] <BackHive> Well rtty appears to be handy enough to decode... using fldigi etc.
[20:26] <fsphil> yea it's proved itself to be pretty reliable
[20:26] <fsphil> do you have a receiver that can so SSB on 434mhz?
[20:27] <BackHive> I just seen the uBLOX MAX-6 on the hab website, is that the unit u speak of ?
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[20:27] <fsphil> that's the one
[20:27] <BackHive> So that little feller just plugs into the Arduino ?
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> WB8ELK once flew a balloon that had Hellschreiber and something else and still something else called "Domino"
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> what's that?
[20:27] <fsphil> dominoex
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> is that good?
[20:27] <fsphil> BackHive: if the arduino runs at 3.3v yes
[20:28] <fsphil> but if it's 5v then you might need some additional bits to allow them to talk
[20:28] <BackHive> Well AFAIK the arduino does 3.3 and 5 v
[20:28] <nigelvh> Upu, have you tried putting an external crystal on it?
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello nigelvh
[20:28] <nigelvh> Howdy
[20:28] <fsphil> the boards can provide 3.3v, but the most popular arduino has the microcontroller running at 5v
[20:28] <Upu> no don't want too nigelvh if I can avoid it
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[20:28] <BackHive> Well I was gonna purchase the latest Arduino UNO smd or regular.
[20:29] <BackHive> Rev 3
[20:29] <BackHive> So it should do the trick ?
[20:29] <fsphil> I'm not too familiar with the arduinos
[20:29] <nigelvh> Well, I've had similar things happen, and was able to get the programmer to work by temporarily tacking on a xtal.
[20:29] <nigelvh> The other option is a HV programmer which can override stuff.
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hey upu
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> I know the fuses and whatnow
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> not
[20:30] <BackHive> So, one other thing for now... can I get the Arduino to hook up to any transceiver... I was thinking of using a 446 walkie talkie job
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> what programmer/chip/connection method are you using
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[20:30] <fsphil> BackHive: that depends on local laws and what not
[20:31] <Upu> avrdude -pm328p -c stk500v2 -P /dev/ttyACM0 -F -B 6
[20:31] <Upu> evening Dan
[20:31] <Upu> thats what I'm running
[20:31] <Upu> which I believe should be able to see the device signature
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> hey lunar
[20:31] <Upu> but its coming back with signature 0x000000
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> what programmer hardware?
[20:31] <Upu> Olimex jobbie
[20:31] <Upu> above command has worked before
[20:31] <fsphil> did you try that slow down command thingy Upu?
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> ISP mode?
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUagi4Hj7MY&list=UUwLbAytnYpEVbryZurOL8cg&index=1&feature=plcp
[20:31] <fsphil> -B 1 I think it was
[20:32] <BackHive> Well any links I have show the use of a Radiometrix module
[20:32] <Dan-K2VOL> not too familiar with the avrdude commands
[20:32] <fsphil> yea the NTX2 is very popular
[20:32] <BackHive> I was wondering if a 446 would be better ?
[20:32] <fsphil> only 10mw but they've been tracked over silly ranges
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:33] <BackHive> Sure, I plan on rustling up a yagi for receiving
[20:33] <fsphil> you'd need to check with comreg
[20:33] <fsphil> ofcom don't allow 446 to be used in the air iirc
[20:33] <Dan-K2VOL> can you see the actual name/model of the olimex board?
[20:33] <fsphil> or with data
[20:33] <BackHive> well then comrag prob wont either
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[20:34] <BackHive> So is the regs OK with the likes of an NTX2 ?
[20:34] <Upu> yeah its a AVR-ISP500
[20:34] <Upu> https://www.olimex.com/dev/avr-isp500.html
[20:34] <fsphil> urg, comreg's website is blah
[20:35] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, I'd recommend getting the (free, though annoying registration required) AVR Studio to debug programming issues like this, it's got a nice GUI for the programming/fuse options
[20:35] <Upu> ok I'll go grab it
[20:36] <Dan-K2VOL> make sure your target board is powered, and the ISP connector is right-way-round
[20:36] <Dan-K2VOL> and make sure that your USB cable is not too long, and not too many other things are using USB bus on your computer
[20:36] <Upu> I've used it to program all my boards to date
[20:36] <BackHive> Finally Phil... for now :)... would you have a link to instructions on an Arduino/GPS/Radio sorta setup ?
[20:36] <Upu> with no issues, the only difference is this doesn't have an external clock
[20:38] <fsphil> there's a good one on the wiki, one sec
[20:38] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, you're probably just running the ISP speed too fast, use AVR studio and set the ISP speed to like 50khz and see if it reads the sig correctly, then you can increase the speed till it fails
[20:38] <fsphil> BackHive: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[20:38] <fsphil> the gps (if your avr is 3.3v) is just a straight connection
[20:38] <fsphil> but do check as you can damage it if the avr is 5v
[20:39] <fsphil> comreg say 446 is for voice only
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[20:39] <Upu> ok Dan-K2VOL don't go anywhere :)
[20:39] <BackHive> Well, if I used a 446... who would care.... ? 10milliwatts ?
[20:39] <fsphil> PMR is 500mw
[20:39] <BackHive> Dont wanna 'break the law; though :)
[20:39] <Upu> nice fast site
[20:40] <Upu> 5.1M/sec
[20:40] <BackHive> Oh yes... 500,w :)
[20:40] <fsphil> rules on the NTX2 are the same, you can do 10mw at 434mhz 100% of the time
[20:40] <BackHive> Was thinking of the NTX2
[20:40] <fsphil> and that's fine for voice or data
[20:40] <Upu> BackHive have you read : http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[20:41] <BackHive> Thanks for the link Phil, the first one I read the other day but strangely it lakes a How To on hooking up a GPS module and transmitting the current position !!
[20:42] <fsphil> we leave the software bit as an exercise to the user :)
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe I''ll be here for another 10 minutes upu, sorry upu, have to go pick up Molly from work at 5 here
[20:42] <Upu> nps :)
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> By the way we're going to come over for the conference!
[20:42] <Upu> oh awesome
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> Now I just have to pick something to present on&.
[20:42] <Upu> thats really great Dan
[20:42] <fsphil> but there are examples on there too BackHive, but the wiki is not the easiest to navagate
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> it will be great to see you guys
[20:42] <fsphil> navigate
[20:42] <fsphil> or however that's spelled
[20:42] <fsphil> ah brilliant Dan-K2VOL!
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> and your projects in person!
[20:43] <Upu> having a few extra days in London ?
[20:43] <BackHive> Yes, the site is pretty vague, I couldnt even find a contact email to ask for the info I need
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[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, I plan to get there late thursday and head on over to france on monday, got time to visit
[20:43] <fsphil> this channel is the best bet for contacts
[20:44] <Upu> you could go see the Queen, she parachutes apparently
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> really?
[20:44] <Upu> not seen the Olympic opening ceremony ?
[20:44] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd really like to find a way to see the CNES balloon facilities, anyone else interested in going if I find a way?
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:45] <fsphil> oooh a trip to france
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> and maybe visit germany too lunar
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[20:45] <Upu> Sadly I can't do the france bit though its of interest
[20:45] <fsphil> I *might*
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> I'll definitely report back if it happens
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> nice phil
[20:46] <fsphil> I'm doing a lot of travelling this year
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[20:46] <fsphil> that's a scary river
[20:46] <fsphil> (bbc two)
[20:46] <Upu> ok
[20:47] <Upu> I have a AVR studio open
[20:47] <Upu> going Dan-K2VOL or got a few more mins ?
[20:47] <fsphil> did the avrdude -B1 make any difference Upu?
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> I'll keep you guys informed, and do let me know if anyone meets any CNES employees in the next month!
[20:47] <Upu> no fsphil
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> about 5 more min
[20:48] <Upu> Dan-K2VOL https://secure.join.me/452-793-995
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> the funny bit is that I may get to see CNES balloons in north america before I do in Europe, they're just finishing a southeastern Canada launching base
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> good idea upu
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> fast connection there
[20:48] <Upu> fibre
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[20:49] <Upu> ok what do ?
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm mind if I click around a minute?
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> I can't recall exactly, it's been a few months
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[20:52] <Upu> ok
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[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> upu it looks like it's talking to your programmer OK
[20:53] <Upu> yup
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> can you hook another target board up to try that for reference?
[20:54] <Upu> yep 1 sec
[20:54] <Dan-K2VOL> though I don't know why it's not showing the 328P there, the programmer or avr studio might need an update
[20:54] <Dan-K2VOL> hey
[20:54] <Dan-K2VOL> that looks good
[20:54] <Upu> thats UAVA board
[20:54] <Upu> that has an external 8Mhz oscillator on it
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> and the chip on your new board is a 328P fresh out of the box?
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> or was it in something else previously
[20:55] <Upu> Yes I think so
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> it's not a dip is it?
[20:55] <Upu> no TQFP
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> darn
[20:55] <Upu> don't forget you need to pick someone up :)
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm worried it may have the external oscillator fuse set
[20:56] <Dan-K2VOL> in which case, you've got to use JTAG to reprogram or HVPP
[20:56] <fsphil> gremlin engineers
[20:56] <mattbrejza> you can 'hot wire' it to sometihng else
[20:56] <Dan-K2VOL> or apply the oscillator
[20:56] <mattbrejza> well depends on the situation
[20:56] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, gtg, good luck upu, sorry I couldn't help it get going
[20:56] <Upu> I'll just solder the oscillator on tomorrow
[20:56] <Upu> thanks for the help much appreciated
[20:57] <Dan-K2VOL> no prob, ttyl
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[20:58] <Upu> great news that he's coming along
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[21:00] <daveake> yes
[21:00] <fsphil> a properly international conference
[21:00] <Upu> I think DS wins in the miles travelled to attend category though
[21:00] <fsphil> slightly!
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[21:03] <fsphil> nice shot (from an aircraft): http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgbalancesrocks/7677651028/
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[21:11] <nigelvh> Upu, I recall reading a writeup on using an arduino as a HV programmer to rewrite the fuses and whatnot.
[21:12] <nigelvh> I'm sure google would turn something up.
[21:12] <Upu> Yeah I'm going to put a crystal on tomorrow
[21:12] <Upu> see if I've reused an old chip
[21:12] <Upu> be easiest
[21:12] <nigelvh> Probably easiest
[21:12] <Upu> I can't find anything wrong with the wiring
[21:12] <Upu> it all seems correct
[21:13] <nigelvh> Yeah. The wiring can be fiddly. But if you're not getting anything I'd guess you've got the oscillator bits set.
[21:13] <Upu> Either that or a faulty chip but I've yet to have one of those
[21:14] <nigelvh> I haven't had any faulty NEW ones. Though i've made one or two faulty...
[21:15] <Upu> lol
[21:15] <Upu> there is always the "Upu" factor to consider
[21:15] <Upu> in my defence I've never killed one through soldering yet
[21:16] <nigelvh> I haven't killed any IC soldering ever. I don't know if I'm just doing well, or the whole you'll kill it with soldering heat thing is overblown.
[21:16] <Upu> I killed an Inventek ISM300 the first time I ever tried to solder anything
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[21:43] <Laurenceb__> wow
[21:44] Action: Laurenceb__ is reading some papers on hydrogen enbrittlement
[21:44] <Laurenceb__> hydrogen diffuses very quickly
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[22:29] <Laurenceb__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Electrorefining_technology_anl_gov.jpg
[22:29] <Laurenceb__> mad scientist.jpg
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[22:30] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
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[22:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: I researched for a few minutes using steam as a shield gas for welding.
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> - probably not.
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[00:00] --- Tue Jul 31 2012