highaltitude.log.20120728

[00:00] <Randomskk> niice
[00:00] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, looks like 3 or 4 being launched at the start, but the only one there's a close camera shot of is only carrying the logo. No evidence of a camera.
[00:00] <LazyLeopard> Randomskk: Yeah, particularly the ones at "Six!" ;)
[00:01] <Randomskk> :p
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> hey daveake
[00:03] <chrisstubbs> Just saw the shot of the rings on sky+, looks like 1080p and it dosent seem to be swinging about in the usual HAB style
[00:04] <Randomskk> it's moving a bit
[00:04] <chrisstubbs> Will be interested to find out of it was real or not :P
[00:04] <Randomskk> they could have digitally stabalised
[00:04] <Randomskk> or tbh just cut out a short not-swinging bit
[00:05] <Randomskk> or played it in slow motion etc
[00:05] <chrisstubbs> Yeah but i would describe some of the videos of other launches i have seen as pretty ferocious
[00:05] <chrisstubbs> very true
[00:05] <Randomskk> plenty of videos with periods a few seconds long that are stable
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[00:05] <chrisstubbs> Okay, well i will check back in tommorow for the verdict :P Night guys!
[00:06] <daveake> Well my verdict is real but recorded
[00:06] <Randomskk> I concur
[00:06] <number10> me too... not that i know anything
[00:06] <mattbrejza> there was no reason for it to be live, there was enough recorded stuff
[00:06] <mattbrejza> i dont tihnk it would have been light
[00:07] <Randomskk> also live video is a faff
[00:08] <chrisstubbs> Trating to convince me now actually, yeah was a pretty short clip, no point to have it live
[00:08] <chrisstubbs> *starting
[00:09] <danielsaul> They might have also launched balloons in the technical rehearsals which they retrieved and got footage from?
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[00:14] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, makes no sense to try to inject live video from a balloon. Could have down-linked and recorded images, I guess, but even that seems to be taking more of a risk than necessary. Also, what was tonight's cloud cover like? I'm guessing it was rather more wall-to-wall than that picture shows...
[00:14] <LazyLeopard> s/images, I guess/images earlier in the evening, I guess/
[00:14] <mattbrejza> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/satpics/latest_uk_ir.html
[00:15] <mattbrejza> dunno its not that blanket
[00:16] <daveake> It's gonna be the simple, reliable solution: Launch days/weeks before, get video(s), find nice clip. Job jobbed.
[00:16] <Randomskk> yup
[00:16] <LazyLeopard> It was 8/8 just before sunset here just south of London, but there were a few gaps earlier in the evening.
[00:16] <Randomskk> then release some more in the ceremony for looks
[00:17] <Randomskk> oh man, 1am is gone already!
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> well
[00:17] <Randomskk> the cycle race is going practically past my house tomorrow
[00:17] <Randomskk> end of the road kind of thing
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[00:17] <LazyLeopard> Yep. Befinitely the sane way. ;)
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[00:35] <hextic> What's this about a HAB at the opening ceremony?
[00:35] <Randomskk> yea, there was a HAB at the opening ceremony
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[05:37] <griffonbot> @daveake: http://t.co/ttcnwRmQ: London 2012 reached stratospheric heights as five Olympic rings were lifted by giant balloons into space. #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/229088158816550912]
[05:52] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tHJappMSHw I don't know whether to laugh or cry ....
[05:54] <Darkside> what happened at the opening ceremony?
[05:55] <Darkside> what happened witht he ballons?
[05:55] <Darkside> The Queen with James Bond at Buckingham Palace
[05:55] <Darkside> what
[05:56] <Darkside> i need to get a rip of this
[05:56] <Darkside> there's better be a bloody scene release of this soon
[05:58] <daveake> I was a spectacular evening
[05:59] <daveake> Mr Bean ,,, Queenie ... Bond ... rings in space ... sheep .... I think drugs were involved when that lot was thought up
[05:59] <daveake> Brilliant though
[05:59] <Darkside> rings in space?
[05:59] <Darkside> what did they do?
[05:59] <Darkside> near-space
[05:59] <daveake> :)
[05:59] <daveake> Near space
[06:00] <daveake> They launched 4 balloons from the stadium, each carrying the olympic rings
[06:00] <Darkside> oh dear
[06:00] <daveake> Then right at the end they cut to a short video of the rings (not, we believe, the same ones) floating above the earth
[06:01] <daveake> Sharp pictures in HD so the concensus is that that bit was recorded
[06:01] <Darkside> heh
[06:01] <Darkside> so i wonder whethere it was CG
[06:01] <Darkside> or whether they did actually do a launch
[06:01] <Darkside> and where from
[06:05] <daveake> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9433818/London-2012-breathtaking-brash-and-bonkers...an-utterly-British-Olympic-opening-ceremony.html
[06:06] <daveake> See the end of that video
[06:06] <Darkside> media selection request failed
[06:07] <daveake> Oh well you can watch when you're over here :p
[06:07] <Darkside> pff
[06:07] <Darkside> or when i get the rip
[06:07] <Darkside> only found SD ones so far
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[06:14] <daveake> I came across a news article about my Pi launch
[06:14] <daveake> They were so impressed with the photos they used someone else's instead!
[06:14] <Darkside> lol
[06:14] <Darkside> hmm
[06:15] <MrScienceMan> jurnalism
[06:15] <MrScienceMan> how does it work
[06:15] <Darkside> magnets
[06:19] <daveake> For the most part, they bump into something news worthy, find out about it, then forget that and write something else
[06:20] <SamSilver> and for a few have a joint in between
[06:22] <daveake> Of the ones about my Pi launch, the one on the Raspi site read my blog backwards till she knew it, then wrote a very good article. The BBC called for an interview and did a good job too. The Reg I had emails with and that one was good. all the others were cut 'n' paste jobs
[06:23] <daveake> I mean "read my blog till she knew it backwards"
[06:23] <daveake> I got that backwards :D
[06:24] <daveake> Some of the translated ones were funny. Apparently we "throw balloons to 30km"
[06:26] <Darkside> yeah
[06:26] <Darkside> i remember that
[06:32] <MrScienceMan> google translations can be silly sometimes
[06:32] <MrScienceMan> s/sometimes/most times/
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[07:16] <DutchMill> .
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[07:38] <nosebleedkt_> http://epod.usra.edu/
[07:38] <nosebleedkt_> yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[07:53] <SamSilver> daveake: how about running a prediction for the balloons released from Olympic Opening
[07:53] <SamSilver> i will give it a bash, what do think the accent rate was?
[07:54] <Darkside> cusf predictor won't go back in time
[07:55] <SamSilver> oahh bugger
[07:56] <fsphil> hmm.. I missed the hab bit
[07:56] <daveake> number10 did thatlast night
[07:57] <daveake> He said he thought they were headed his way :)
[07:59] <SamSilver> thanx
[07:59] <SamSilver> keen to hear if they found
[08:00] <daveake> Just so the French don't leave completely left out, tomorrow I shall be putting a frog into space :)
[08:00] <daveake> "don't feel"
[08:01] <SamSilver> kermit?
[08:01] <daveake> And yes, I mean "near space" :)
[08:01] <daveake> No, but justamo while I get a pic
[08:01] <daveake> http://imgur.com/fSDdk
[08:02] <SamSilver> I awaitn.....
[08:02] <daveake> Not my construction :D
[08:02] <SamSilver> a froggy scout?
[08:02] <daveake> Yep
[08:06] <daveake> The N Korea/S Korea debacle wasn't a great start to the Olympics.
[08:06] <daveake> But they got the Swiss flag right, which is a big plus.
[08:08] <daveake> Don't make me post a link to a pic of the Swiss flag :)
[08:09] <fsphil> *hides the google image page*
[08:13] <daveake> Should be landing somewhere near the River Trent tomorrow
[08:13] <daveake> Must remember to make sure the scouts pack their kayaks
[08:14] <daveake> See how prepared they really ar
[08:14] <daveake> e
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[08:20] <daveake> How's the wine Upuiphone?
[08:20] <Upuiphone> was good now feel ropey
[08:20] <daveake> That'll clear up in time for the next session
[08:21] <Upuiphone> hopefully just sat waiting for people to wake up
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[09:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Elmar PD3EM "[UKHAS] upcoming flights iCalendar feed"
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[09:18] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:18] <Darkside> yo
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[09:21] <number10> yesterdays predictions for olympic HAB http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=734072dcff922481459b6458de0d9830d42d0899
[09:21] <number10> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=eddd2cc8b5536da51af84d04834fa3947a7345fc
[09:22] <jcoxon> landing on you?
[09:22] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:23] <Darkside> someone should have had a radio listeing out :-)
[09:23] <Darkside> to see if it was running a normal tracker
[09:23] <number10> yes, probably in back garden jcoxon :)
[09:24] <number10> I had a quick tune in an hour after launch just in case
[09:25] <number10> http://news.yahoo.com/photos/world-events-slideshow/girl-holds-balloon-olympic-rings-scene-showing-pre-photo-201010755--spt.html
[09:25] <jcoxon> there ain't no tx'er on there...
[09:25] <Darkside> heh, no tracker
[09:25] <Darkside> is that all they flew?
[09:25] <Darkside> thats boring
[09:27] <number10> I think so Darkside - but a few of them
[09:28] <Darkside> still boring
[09:29] <jcoxon> i think it looked good
[09:29] <number10> I think it was much better than I was expecting
[09:30] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:30] <jcoxon> i enjoyed it
[09:30] <number10> me to - and quite a lot could have gone wrong - and nothing did
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[09:33] <fsphil> just watched the highlights, pretty good
[09:33] <fsphil> and it didn't rain, always a plus
[09:34] <Darkside> i'm downlading it
[09:34] <Darkside> only the NBC version tho :(
[09:37] <fsphil> urg, ads
[09:38] <fsphil> if the bbc repeat it I'll record it
[09:38] <jcoxon> is it not on iplayer?
[09:39] <fsphil> ah ha
[09:46] <fsphil> yay get_iplayer
[09:47] <Darkside> doesn't help me lol
[09:48] <fsphil> I'll upload :)
[09:48] <Darkside> it'll be huge though
[09:48] <Darkside> and i want it in HD
[09:48] <Darkside> (which is what i'm downloading atm)
[09:48] <fsphil> yea hd
[09:49] <fsphil> well, 720
[09:50] <Darkside> oh iplayer is in 720p?
[09:50] <fsphil> it has an hd mode for some programs
[09:50] <Darkside> hmm
[09:50] <Darkside> because this download is going pretty shit
[09:51] <fsphil> so is this one, it's stopped at 80mb
[09:51] <Darkside> damn
[09:51] <fsphil> trying again
[09:56] <fsphil> keeps stalling
[09:56] <fsphil> that's annoying
[09:56] <Darkside> possibly a rate limiting thing?
[09:56] <Darkside> to stop you from downloading entire shows easily
[09:57] <fsphil> thinking that, get_iplayer doesn't seem to have an option to throttle it to real time
[10:07] <fsphil> nah, can't get it to work
[10:09] <Darkside> damn
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[10:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "Re: [UKHAS] upcoming flights iCalendar feed"
[10:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> Almost a good decode from PYSY:
[10:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> $PYSY,564,10:17:38,49.59698,12.20669,33869,105915, 13.6, 10.3U1044
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[10:29] <fsphil> no point in me even trying I think :)
[10:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> it's close to 600 km for me ;-)
[10:31] <fsphil> you're well outside the horizon
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[10:31] <fsphil> must be some woo woo going on
[10:31] <fsphil> what frequency?
[10:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> 434.650.29 and that woo hoo will come on a good decode :-)
[10:33] <Elmar_PD3EM> based on the sound at the moment it's coming down now
[10:35] <fsphil> ah
[10:35] <fsphil> the altitude graph is a bit odd
[10:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> it sounds like spinning around....
[10:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> The last two nearly good decodes are:
[10:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> $$PYSY,645,10>31:12,49.60556,12.05566,3769,9,5928, 96.3, 19.8*682F
[10:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> $$PYSY,606,10:31:32,49.60629,12>04955,37770,9,5947, 16.4, 20.0*5411
[10:37] <fsphil> they must be having signal problems
[10:37] <fsphil> no updates on the map
[10:37] <fsphil> if you're receiving it then it's likely much higher than the last complete string sys
[10:37] <fsphil> says*
[10:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> last update from pysyground is 1.5 hrs ago
[10:38] <fsphil> right, bbl
[10:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> cul
[10:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> i'm out for lunch
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[11:18] <Darkside> fsphil: theres a scene release now
[11:18] <Darkside> a few i thnk
[11:18] <Darkside> London 2012 Opening Ceremony 720p HDTV x264 OLYMPIANS
[11:19] <Darkside> is the one i'm getting, off newsgroups
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[11:31] <eroomde> Laurenceb: http://i.imgur.com/RPZCU.png
[11:32] <eroomde> the combined coasta as delay locked loop is finally tuned, with the f*ing rediculous bugs (from my algo that tries to keep phase continutity from 1ms of local carrier to the next) are all gone
[11:33] <eroomde> costas and delay-locked loop*
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[11:39] <Randomskk> eroomde: what's that for?
[11:40] <eroomde> that's a gps sat
[11:40] <eroomde> thought i'd have a go at coding a receiver up in numpy
[11:40] <Randomskk> nice
[11:41] <eroomde> now that the elonics dongles make it easy to sample the gps band, a whole software gps on a pc should cost peanuts
[11:41] <eroomde> (i just bought an elonics dongle so this is to play with it)
[11:41] <Randomskk> good playing
[11:41] <Randomskk> I just plugged mine in and listened to radio 4 or something
[11:42] <eroomde> well i wnt to grok gps anyway
[11:42] <eroomde> a combined gps and inertial package has the potential to be really powerful
[11:43] <eroomde> especially for tracking really dynamic things accurately like, say, a chute opening suddenly or maybe embedding a receiver in a football and having someone pelt it at a goal
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[11:43] <eroomde> which is all highly nonlinear and the sort of stuff existing gps units won't cope with
[11:43] <Randomskk> yea
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[11:47] <eroomde> but i have spent about 36hrs trying to get the tracking algorithm to work (you have to find the sats by hunting around in the phase and frequency space with a local copy of their pseudo-random code. once this squision algorithm has found a sat (a big spike in a 3d plot of codephase vs freq) you then hand over the localtion of this spike (freq, phase) to a tracking algorithm which is comprised of a coastas loop (like a phase locked loop but can cope wit
[11:48] <eroomde> that probably has cut off halfway or something
[11:48] <Randomskk> loop but can cope wit
[11:48] <eroomde> but can cope with bpsk) and a delay locked loop (also like a phase locked loop but gradient climbs the phase correlation curve to keep the local phase aligned with the gps sat phase. these things let you produce a dead-on local waveform that lets u get out a baseband bit stream, that photo)
[11:49] <eroomde> should end with 'photo)'
[11:49] <Randomskk> yes
[11:49] <Randomskk> lot of work to get a bitstream
[11:49] <Randomskk> and that gives you timing information?
[11:49] <eroomde> the point being, tuning the loops (they're fedback control systems) has been a bit of a mind-f*ck
[11:49] <Randomskk> I can imagine
[11:50] <eroomde> the bit stream gives you all the info about the sats - where they are, what they think the time is, what the ionospheric time of flight correction factors for today are, etc
[11:50] <Randomskk> right
[11:50] <Randomskk> and then you have some more fun calculating pseudoranges and thus position/
[11:50] <Randomskk> or is that the 'simple' bit?
[11:50] <eroomde> but you also calculate the pseudoranges with the tracking loop
[11:50] <Randomskk> ah, oaky
[11:51] <eroomde> so the universe occurs 1ms at a time
[11:51] <eroomde> in this receiver
[11:51] <eroomde> each ms it has 12000 samples (12mhz sample rate) to play with
[11:52] <Randomskk> ah, hence the issues keeping phase correct between each 1ms?
[11:52] <eroomde> it tries to find the sat's pseudorandom number somewhere in that 1ms, more specifically it has to track the code phase of the sattelite (so the sattelite's number might be barrel shifted if you catch, say, the last half of one transmition and the first half of the next)
[11:52] <eroomde> so yep, you have to have a control loop that tracks that code phase from 1ms to the next - that's what the delay locked loop does
[11:52] <Randomskk> right
[11:53] <eroomde> but to get the pseudorange you add the code phase for the current ms to the time that that ms sample came into the eceiver
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[11:53] <eroomde> so that's also something that pops out of the tracking loop
[11:54] <eroomde> and then that's really the nasty dsp done, with the output of the tracking loop
[11:54] <eroomde> then you have to clean up that bit stream and do all sorts of nastyly looking munging to get info out of the carrier
[11:54] <Randomskk> sounds intense. how does numpy do in performance terms?
[11:54] <eroomde> it looks pretty horrible actually
[11:54] <Randomskk> heh
[11:54] <eroomde> the bit structure and finding the preambles
[11:54] <eroomde> numpy will do about 10s per second per sat atm
[11:54] <eroomde> i've not particularly had a go at tuning it yet
[11:55] <Randomskk> that seems not too awful for post-hoc reconstruction
[11:55] <eroomde> though that is with doing all the code phase correlation in the frequency space which sped things up by about 10,000 (not kidding)
[11:55] <Randomskk> heh
[11:55] <Randomskk> yea ffts are stupid fast and multiplication really kicks convolution's arse
[11:55] <eroomde> nlogn vs n^2 for millions of samples
[11:55] <Randomskk> I did that for a filter thing at work the other day
[11:56] <Randomskk> especially when you can precompute all the fourier coefficients way in advance
[11:56] <eroomde> but i don't think i'll tackle the next stage just yet. it's been a long 3 days coding this thing up
[11:56] <eroomde> and i want a beer and some sunshine
[11:56] <Randomskk> though mainly I did it in frequency because I had to do this in ruby
[11:56] <Randomskk> and doing an fft and a multiplcation is relatively easy enough with the libraries it has
[11:56] <Randomskk> but doing a convolution would mean ruby loops, its crappy science library doesn't have any fast algorithms for that
[11:56] <Randomskk> and a ruby loop would be painfully slow
[11:57] <Randomskk> what're you doing with the source code? is it work/play/both? (incidentally does it have ITAR/export issues?)
[11:58] <Randomskk> olympic bike race was good for some sunshine earlier
[11:58] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/7661195568/in/set-72157630786671882/
[12:00] <eroomde> Randomskk: i'm british so itar can fuck off
[12:00] <eroomde> code will possible be work but probs opened anyway
[12:01] <nick_> What's ITAR?
[12:01] <eroomde> quite want to make a gps sim to ground test rockets but make them think they're flying into orbit
[12:01] <eroomde> us arms export laws
[12:02] <nick_> Are we immune to that here?
[12:02] <nick_> Didn't some guy get extradited for selling batteries or something recently?
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[12:03] <eroomde> it's not itar
[12:03] <eroomde> might be some other uk law
[12:03] <eroomde> itar is a us law
[12:04] <nick_> iTar
[12:04] <nick_> for creating tarballs that only cost $999?
[12:04] <Darkside> eroomde: want to make a gps sim eh?
[12:04] <Darkside> >_>
[12:05] <Darkside> you know, i could probably get you a recording from a real gps sim
[12:05] <Darkside> there's a gps simulator at bath uni that can do those kinds of paths
[12:05] <eroomde> Darkside: ooooor, i could build one
[12:05] <eroomde> then i can make it do whatever i want
[12:05] <Darkside> :P
[12:06] <Darkside> bloody complex though
[12:06] <eroomde> well, i have just broken the back of the sdr receiver
[12:06] <eroomde> which is extremely similar to a transmitter
[12:06] <eroomde> you basically have to creat a local copy of all the sattelites anyway, to demodulate them
[12:07] <eroomde> so basically i'd get a pc program to create a file according to the dynamics i want to simulate
[12:07] <eroomde> then play it out through some kind of tx
[12:08] <eroomde> i appreciate that last step is not a walk in the park but it's also not particularly hard
[12:08] <Darkside> i was just amazed at the difficult in just configuring the damn simulator
[12:09] <eroomde> I expect their ui has not had apple-levels of thought put into it
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[12:09] <Darkside> it was more doing things like defining the path accurately, getting all the almanac data in
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[12:09] <Darkside> yes, it wasn't the best UI
[12:10] <Darkside> i managed to set it up to kind of simulate a low earth orbit sat
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[12:10] <Darkside> 150km altitude, 9KM/s velocity
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[12:13] <eroomde> i'd quite like to be able to have something that will take a csv of lat/lon/alt/time (say, a simulated from ground to LEO) and then have the computer generate all the gps sats to do that, and basically spit out a huge wav file (wav with a 6MHz sample rate) which it can then kick out to a hardware peripheral which will play it and mix it up to GPS L1 freq, attentuate and go to an sma
[12:13] <eroomde> infact i think this little box will have to be brush aluminium
[12:14] <eroomde> with a pulsating blue led
[12:14] <Darkside> oh god i wish i could have done that
[12:14] <eroomde> and a single sma on the front
[12:14] <Darkside> i spend a while looking for a way
[12:14] <Darkside> ]it was a bitch of a thing to do
[12:14] <eroomde> would you wanna buy one if I make it?
[12:14] <Darkside> if i coudl attach a big amp to it, sure :P
[12:14] <eroomde> or persuade your uni to?
[12:14] <Darkside> and if if didn't cost $50000 like the one i used
[12:14] <eroomde> yes i suppose u could put an amp and handheld dish on
[12:14] <Darkside> lol
[12:14] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: it exists
[12:14] <eroomde> and point it at an aeroplane
[12:15] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: yeah, they cost a lot
[12:15] <eroomde> and then run away
[12:15] <Laurenceb_> yes
[12:15] <Laurenceb_> they have them at sstl
[12:15] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: sure i know gps simulators exist
[12:15] <Darkside> the one i was using was a windows box for configuration, and some kind of unix box that did the simulation and SDR stuff
[12:15] <Darkside> eroomde: why not do this in gnuradio
[12:15] <Darkside> then you can use all manner of output devices
[12:15] <Darkside> like a USRP, or whatever
[12:16] <Darkside> sure, requires a computer
[12:16] <Darkside> but thats ok
[12:16] <eroomde> yeah i was thinking that the usrp might be a good first step on a prototype
[12:16] <eroomde> than can DAC and mix up already
[12:16] <Darkside> i wonder if this has been done already
[12:16] <Darkside> well the USRP daigherboard i'm getting can output 100mW at L-band anyway >_>
[12:16] <Darkside> I'm ordering a USRP B100 + WBX daugherboard as soon as i have a bit more money in
[12:17] <eroomde> i think 100mW might saturate it slightly :)
[12:17] <Darkside> i'd just lower the output power then :P
[12:17] <Laurenceb_> http://www.energymicro.com/draco
[12:17] <eroomde> it's expecting stuff 15dB beneath the thermal nosie floor
[12:17] <Darkside> eroomde: haha yep
[12:17] <Darkside> eroomde: but you could run it on a tall building
[12:17] <Laurenceb_> ^that thing looks utterly epic
[12:17] <eroomde> tru
[12:18] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: yeah nice
[12:18] <eroomde> goes down to 300 bits
[12:18] <eroomde> and does bpsk
[12:18] <Darkside> thats cool
[12:18] <Darkside> will have to order some samples next year :P
[12:19] <eroomde> i think that company might be norwegian
[12:19] <eroomde> http://www.energymicro.com/management/management
[12:20] <eroomde> Øyvind Grotmol - VP of simplicity
[12:20] <eroomde> lol
[12:20] <eroomde> why not just rename yourself Bob
[12:22] <Darkside> ok, pythin script to record across a minute boundary done..
[12:22] <Darkside> the rtl source takes a good 5-10 seconds to start up
[12:22] <eroomde> record what?
[12:23] <Darkside> whatever
[12:23] <eroomde> ah righty
[12:23] <Darkside> i strt the script 30 seconds beore the minute
[12:23] <Darkside> it sets things up, waits until 2 seconds before then starts
[12:23] <Darkside> i record across the minute boundary as thats when my timepulse occurs
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[12:24] <Darkside> well, when the first one occurs anyway
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[12:24] <Darkside> external gps reference, injecting a pulse straight into the SDR's ADC
[12:25] <Darkside> easy to find in the received data, gives me a time reference without requiring me to clock the ADC off something else
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[12:25] <Darkside> downsides: dependent on receiver circuitry( can be calibrated out), and you lose a bit of the signal of interest
[12:26] <Darkside> plus: works on any receiver where you can get to the mixer -> ADC line
[12:26] <eroomde> it just so happens i've spent 3 days coding something that'll do what you want
[12:26] <eroomde> module a known pseudorandom bit code on top
[12:26] <eroomde> correlate for it later on, you'll get a huge big correlation score when you're ontop of it
[12:26] <eroomde> that's your time ref
[12:26] <eroomde> and you can mix it out
[12:27] <Darkside> that involves a hell of a lot more external circuitry
[12:27] <eroomde> sure but it's cool right?
[12:27] <Darkside> that is exacvtly want i want to do in the end though :-)
[12:27] <eroomde> anyhoo, it's time for me to definitely not be on a computer anymore for a bit
[12:27] <Darkside> how would you inject it into the receive chain?
[12:27] <Darkside> hah ok
[12:27] <eroomde> mix it in at IF or something
[12:27] <Darkside> there is no IF
[12:27] <Darkside> lol
[12:28] <eroomde> ah true
[12:28] <eroomde> well, at input freq then :)
[12:28] <Darkside> at the moment i just have a square wave pulse going into the ADC via a 100K resistor and cap
[12:28] <eroomde> anyhoo ttfn
[12:28] <Darkside> i setup the ublox timing module to whati want (at th emoment, 100ms pulse width, 10 second period)
[12:28] <Darkside> k
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[12:54] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: yeah - it could end up being really simple - all you need is a gigabyte DDR stick, and you're done.
[12:56] <chrisstubbs> Hey guys, had my SDR set up and working last night, but now the frequency just seems to be drifting around a lot
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[13:09] <AlephHaz> hallo :) does anyone know of any distributors who ship sounding balloons to the UK? i've found a couple but wondered if people have a preference.
[13:09] Action: SpeedEvil points at Randomskk
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> www.randomengineering.co.uk specifignyl
[13:14] <AlephHaz> ah yes, that's one of the ones i found
[13:14] <AlephHaz> looking at getting the totex ta-1200
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> hang around, and he'll probably be around later.
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> What're you lanning on?
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> p
[13:15] <AlephHaz> just a near-space photography project with a few friends
[13:16] <AlephHaz> i realise those totex's don't support that heavy a payload though
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> it depends.
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> You can go quite heavy, if you don't want to go very high.
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> >10kg
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> But that raises other issues.
[13:17] <Darkside> like, regulations
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> I take it you know you need ermission to launch?
[13:17] <AlephHaz> yeah, i'm looking at about 90,000, normal bursting altitude is apparently 110,000
[13:17] <AlephHaz> yeah i'll be contacting the caa
[13:17] <Darkside> and you want a tracker
[13:18] <Darkside> so you can actually get the payload back
[13:18] <AlephHaz> aye, gps module or icarus app
[13:18] <AlephHaz> don't know which one yet
[13:18] <Darkside> don't use any phone network based tracker
[13:18] <Darkside> not reliable
[13:18] <AlephHaz> ahh
[13:18] <Randomskk> or not as primary anyway
[13:18] <AlephHaz> dedicated gps module then?
[13:18] <Darkside> either use a SPOT tracker, or a radio tracker
[13:18] <Darkside> actuallyi don't even think SPOT will maintain lock >60kft
[13:19] <Darkside> we use custom made trackers, often based around the arduino platform
[13:19] <Randomskk> really you wanna use a radio tracker
[13:19] <Darkside> though not necessarily using the arduino dev board itself
[13:19] <AlephHaz> i have a raspi
[13:19] <Darkside> no
[13:19] <Darkside> don't even think about it
[13:19] <Randomskk> it can be done
[13:19] <Randomskk> Darkside: why not?
[13:19] <Darkside> lol
[13:19] <Randomskk> I mean it's a bit of a faff
[13:19] <Randomskk> it /has/ been done, I mean
[13:19] <Darkside> Randomskk: just because dave did it doesn't man its relible
[13:20] <Randomskk> but you'd probably find it a lot easier to use an arduino
[13:20] <AlephHaz> yeah i've seen a couple of projects, trying to draw together as much as i can :P
[13:20] <Darkside> AlephHaz: the arduino route is the most reliable
[13:20] <Darkside> get a 3.3v arduino nano, a gps module, and a NTX2
[13:20] <AlephHaz> cool, i'll take that into account :)
[13:21] <Darkside> add in some voltage regulation and Energizer Lithium AAs and you have a tracker
[13:21] <Darkside> well, with coding
[13:21] <Darkside> then you need a radio to receive the data
[13:22] <AlephHaz> how do people prefer to take the photographs?
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[13:22] <Darkside> but anyway, if you go the radio route then you can make use of the spacenear.us tracker system
[13:22] <Darkside> worry about that after you get a working trac ker
[13:22] <Randomskk> AlephHaz: usually a canon point and shoot with CHDK
[13:22] <Darkside> everything else is moot if you can't get your payload back
[13:22] <eroomde> moooooooo
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[13:22] <AlephHaz> yus :p
[13:24] <Darkside> seriously, the radio method is the most reliable route to go down. anything else is strongly not reccomended
[13:24] <eroomde> I second that
[13:24] <Darkside> most of us have been doing this for a long time.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> A string is more reliable.
[13:24] <Darkside> and we don't use anything other than the radio method except as a secondary testing tracker
[13:24] <eroomde> the radio method, as well as being more fun getting live info from your baby, really increases your chances of a successful recovery
[13:25] <eroomde> for example you can get landing predictions live during the flight
[13:25] <eroomde> which will be way better than the landing predictions you run on the predictor webpage in advance of the flight
[13:26] <AlephHaz> i assume i'll have to check which frequencies i'm allowed to freely transmit on?
[13:26] <Darkside> 434MHz ISM band
[13:26] <Darkside> 10mW ERP
[13:26] <AlephHaz> is this UK? :p
[13:26] <Darkside> yes
[13:26] <AlephHaz> not sure if it's regional or not
[13:27] <Darkside> AlephHaz: most people in here are from th eUK
[13:27] <AlephHaz> cool, cheers guys :)
[13:27] <AlephHaz> appreciate it
[13:27] <eroomde> AlephHaz: where are you based?
[13:27] <AlephHaz> yorkshire
[13:27] <AlephHaz> huddersfield-ish
[13:27] <eroomde> cool
[13:27] <Darkside> i'm one of the people that aren't
[13:27] <eroomde> there are some v good hab people up there
[13:27] <AlephHaz> i know there's two sites in cambrdigeshire where people prefer you make launches from
[13:27] <eroomde> one of them has just gone on holiday
[13:27] <AlephHaz> think i read that on your wiki in fact
[13:27] <AlephHaz> i'll give a good read through so i'm not asking stupid questions anyway
[13:28] <eroomde> but he's very approchable if you want advice or to see the equipment up close
[13:28] <AlephHaz> brilliant :)
[13:28] <Randomskk> I run one of the cambridge sites, incidentally
[13:28] <Randomskk> if you want to launch from there :P
[13:32] <AlephHaz> if it makes things easier i'll set off from there if the CAA prefer it. does airspace matter much? i know it's divided into different classes A-G, did a bit of aviation law a while ago but forgot most of it
[13:32] <Randomskk> it's not that the CAA prefer it
[13:33] <Randomskk> just that we have a rolling 24/7 NOTAM and NoV (permission to launch)
[13:33] <Randomskk> you can apply for your own permission to launch, which a lot of people do
[13:34] <Randomskk> but yea, you'd be welcome to launch from cambridge, though we'd need to sort out dates etc etc
[13:35] <eroomde> best to try and avoid uni exams, uni holodays to maximise your chance of someone in cambridge being available
[13:35] <AlephHaz> i'll get a checklist together, a budget and a deadline and get back to you
[13:36] <AlephHaz> would like to do it while the weather is still nice :)
[13:36] <Randomskk> if you haven't started building the payload and making a radio transmitter etc you might find it takes a while :P
[13:37] <Darkside> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PON7VJtJ4g oh thats interesting
[13:37] <Darkside> the company that designed the olympic flame is based in adelaide, sa
[13:37] <AlephHaz> yeah, i still need to look at building an enclosure >.<
[13:38] <AlephHaz> according to Make a foam cooler is the way to go
[13:38] <Darkside> i hope he takes our advice though
[13:39] <eroomde> who?
[13:40] <Darkside> the guy
[13:40] <Darkside> ack
[13:40] <Darkside> lol
[13:40] <eroomde> yes Darkside
[13:40] <eroomde> ack
[13:40] <Darkside> :P
[13:40] <Darkside> syn
[13:40] <eroomde> the irc version of walking into the ladies
[13:41] <Darkside> yep
[13:41] <Darkside> nothing to see here
[13:41] <Darkside> move along
[13:41] <eroomde> AlephHaz: you just got a glimpse of the matrix
[13:41] <eroomde> anyway back to balloons
[13:42] <eroomde> AlephHaz: that's v good avice from make
[13:42] <eroomde> Randomskk: the cusf flickr page
[13:42] <eroomde> it seems to only have martlet stuff for me atm
[13:42] <eroomde> safe for you?
[13:42] <eroomde> same*
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[13:43] <eroomde> AlephHaz: my favourite bit of advice which everyone ignore, is that if you wouldn;t be happy to lob the payload down the stairs, think twice about flying it
[13:44] <eroomde> so this especially applies to thinks like antennas
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> Someone else to throw it down the stairs at you.
[13:44] <eroomde> they can get a bit bashed during launch and landing, and you want them to be springy (but not spikey) so that they can cope with a few bumps
[13:45] <eroomde> even better advice from SpeedEvil
[13:45] <eroomde> i.e. no spikey brass rods as the antenna
[13:45] <eroomde> in the past i have used flexible wire affixed to a big thick cable tie
[13:45] <daveake> I've started using pipe insulation to surround the antenna
[13:46] <daveake> Strong and bouncy
[13:46] <Darkside> we've used either wire rope or spring steel before
[13:46] <Darkside> both spring back well
[13:46] <eroomde> yeah pipe insulation works well
[13:46] <eroomde> i used that on nova 18
[13:47] <eroomde> which i thnk was the last non-lethal payload i built, come to think if it
[13:47] <daveake> lol
[13:49] <Randomskk> eroomde: hm. looks like our Pro subscription ran out and it didn't tell us
[13:50] <eroomde> how helpful
[13:50] <Randomskk> or maybe it emailed ed
[13:50] <Randomskk> (c)
[13:50] <eroomde> they keep everything when that happens tho right?
[13:50] <Randomskk> as he paid for it last time
[13:50] <Randomskk> yes they do
[13:50] <Randomskk> I'll renew it now
[13:50] <Randomskk> on the CUSF debit card
[13:50] <eroomde> cool ta
[13:50] <eroomde> wow
[13:50] <eroomde> a cusf debit card
[13:50] <eroomde> that's too exciting
[13:50] <Randomskk> yup.
[13:50] <Randomskk> ikr
[13:51] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/card.jpg shiny.
[13:51] <Darkside> no paypass?
[13:51] <Darkside> :P
[13:51] <Randomskk> yup, login and Hey CU Spaceflight! Your Flickr Pro account has expired.
[13:52] <eroomde> nice
[13:54] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/7316189456/in/photostream
[13:54] <eroomde> i like this photo
[13:55] <Darkside> niiiice
[13:56] <Darkside> "at an undisclosed location in Sutherland, Scotland"
[13:56] <Randomskk> eroomde: done
[13:57] <Randomskk> \o/ debit cards
[13:57] <eroomde> grand
[13:57] <eroomde> thanks!
[13:57] <Randomskk> np :P
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[13:58] <eroomde> AlephHaz: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/set-72157624203062811
[13:58] <eroomde> so, that's a pic of a payload
[13:58] <eroomde> the pipe insulation for the antenna
[13:58] <eroomde> the lower draper box is not part of the payload
[13:59] <eroomde> the radial elements are the black bits sticking out, they are thick cable ties and the ground wires, all covered in black heatshrink
[13:59] <eroomde> it's a polystrene chiller box covered in radiator insulation
[13:59] <daveake> I like those abracadabra radials
[13:59] <eroomde> led held down with velcro
[13:59] <eroomde> and then there's a nylon harness with a carabina at the top and bottom]
[13:59] <eroomde> for attaching to the rest of the balloon system
[14:19] <AlephHaz> do you guys recommend a gps module that's easy to interface with the arduino?
[14:20] <AlephHaz> and love the sign :)
[14:20] <AlephHaz> mostly harmless*
[14:20] <Darkside> upu sells a few good ones
[14:20] <Darkside> i'd reccomend you sue a 3.3v arduino
[14:20] <Darkside> like, an arduino pro nano or something
[14:20] <AlephHaz> aye, arduino nano seems the way to go
[14:20] <AlephHaz> tiny thing
[14:21] <Darkside> yeah
[14:21] <AlephHaz> i'll have to learn as i go along to use a microcontroller, thank god for the ide
[14:21] <Darkside> you'll need a 3.3v LDO of course
[14:21] <Darkside> but thats easy
[14:21] <AlephHaz> i already have programming knowledge so i'm not too fearful of that
[14:21] <Darkside> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[14:22] <Darkside> ublox modules are popular amongst HABbers
[14:22] <Darkside> they're sensitive, and with the right configuration maintain lock above 18km, unlike many others
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[15:08] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Scout Sunday"
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[16:08] <daveake> Oh, near huddersfield he said
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[16:10] <daveake> Sorry wrong box :-). Just speaking to fellow Yorkshireman Upu :)
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[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> uz uz uz uz hello uz uz uz uz hello uz uz uz uz hello uz uz uz uz hello
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> Remix!
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> uz uz uz uz uz
[16:38] <Laurenceb_> ?
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:39] <Darkside> wubwubwubwubwub
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello Darkside
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> I got a urgent question on Horus 25
[16:39] <Darkside> urr
[16:39] <Darkside> sure
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> I watched the cutdown vide
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> +o
[16:39] <number10> daveake: I wired up some rg213 to watson w50 for tomorrow
[16:39] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: yees
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> and when you tested the cutdown the person with the laptop seemed to have Audacity open on the laptop
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[16:40] <Darkside> because thts how i transmit the cutdown packet
[16:40] <daveake> Cool number10 :)
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah you transmit a sound?
[16:40] <Darkside> yes
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[16:40] <Darkside> i replay a recorded packet
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:40] <Darkside> at up to 50W if required
[16:40] <Darkside> i never need that much power though
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> reminds me of a Skyhook in the 1950s
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> some radio station played a certain song
[16:40] <Darkside> min power on the IC-7000 always gets through
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> and that matched the coded cutdown signal
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> and the balloon cut down
[16:40] <Darkside> lol
[16:41] <Darkside> i can also command it from a copy of the cutdown board on the ground, hooked to my laptop
[16:41] <Darkside> but it isn't as easy to sync the frequency (though i think i might be able to fix that)
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:43] <Darkside> i think a long preamble may allow the AFC to lock on
[16:43] <Darkside> not tested though
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> let's do a cutdown packet remix
[16:45] <Darkside> it doesn't sound that nice
[16:45] <Darkside> you don't hear the cutdown packets audio in the video
[16:45] <Darkside> only the RTTY
[16:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[16:46] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[16:46] <jcoxon> looks like PYSY is up
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[16:46] <jcoxon> oh quite a while since data
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah there is a flight?
[16:48] <number10> daveake: I have a question about your next flight - do you think the green frog will have any effect on predictions
[16:48] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/4Rw1O.jpg
[16:48] <Darkside> lol
[16:49] <daveake> number10: Yes, it's important not to Kermit to the wrong prediction
[16:49] <number10> :D
[16:52] <number10> daveake: - the scout tracker is Upus from last flight - I had trouble receiving that.. I think Upu said antenna was not that good - do you have new one on it?
[16:52] <daveake> Yes, re-done
[16:53] <daveake> When I got it back there was only 1 gp wire left, held on by 3 strands of wire
[16:53] <number10> ah -that would explian it
[16:54] <daveake> But the damage might have happened when I battled the triffids
[16:55] <daveake> Can't say I noticed at the time
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> damn they flew now?
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> now that I brought the Yaesu to the laboratory?
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> i think the queen was texting at one point
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> was pretty funny
[17:01] <Laurenceb_> someone whispered in her ear she was on tv and she put the phone down
[17:01] <daveake> "I rool this lot - lolz"
[17:02] <Laurenceb_> looked like an iphone 4s
[17:02] <Lunar_Lander> XD she got a cell phone?
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> well id imagine she does yes :P
[17:03] <Darkside> loooooool
[17:03] <Darkside> i missed that
[17:03] <Darkside> it'll be on this rip sometime
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> its was a second or two as the camera pans in on her
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> she looks utterly bored and seems to be texting, you can see the top of the phone in her gloves
[17:04] <Darkside> hahaha
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> guy whispers in her ear and she puts her hands down and tries to look less bored
[17:05] <Darkside> during what section?
[17:05] <domlin> hey guys
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> around 11.20bst or something
[17:06] <Darkside> hrm
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> im not sad enough to try and find it
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> :P
[17:08] <Darkside> lol
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[17:09] <Darkside> it took me far too long to find this: http://i.imgur.com/mZXN7.jpg
[17:09] Action: Laurenceb_ grabs weather sat images
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/satpics/latest_uk_ir.html
[17:12] <domlin> has the olympics started?
[17:12] <Laurenceb_> i dont know
[17:12] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: gonna try and figure out when that was tkane?
[17:12] <Darkside> taken*
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> youd have thought you would have heard or something
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> but i havent heard anything
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> about the olympics
[17:14] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: the sun gives a very definitive idea of time
[17:14] <Laurenceb_> around 9:45 or a little later
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> was the launch on tv at 8 or 9 bst?
[17:15] <Darkside> it wasn't the launch on tv
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> the weather sat seems to sort of match around that time
[17:16] <Darkside> there were no cameras or trackers on those
[17:16] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats what im saying
[17:16] <Laurenceb_> hmmm
[17:16] <Laurenceb_> looks like maybe there was to me
[17:16] <Darkside> i went over the video
[17:16] <Laurenceb_> oh
[17:16] <Darkside> its just balloon and rings
[17:16] <Laurenceb_> maybe they faked it
[17:16] <Darkside> i'm betting that video was taken before the event
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[17:17] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/TVUgi
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/images/ukir_sat_201207272000.jpg
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> ^sort of matches
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> i cant quite find matching cloud tho
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> if the pole is sticking away from the camera?
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> and the gopro or whatever in the inpayload
[17:18] <Darkside> there were mulriple launches from the stadium
[17:18] <Darkside> like, 4 or 5
[17:18] <Darkside> all with the same thing
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> rings hanging?
[17:18] <Darkside> theres a closeup shot of a girl holding one somewhere
[17:18] <Darkside> and you can see the rings hanging down and thats it
[17:18] <Darkside> no camera
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[17:18] <Darkside> as i said, it had to have been done before
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> either there was only one real one
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> or it was done before year
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> *yeah
[17:19] <Darkside> they wouldn't have got live HD from it
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> weather almost matches tho
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> maybe thats coincidence
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> there was enough time for it to have loinded by gone 11pm
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> it almost seems credible
[17:20] <Darkside> i don't think so
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> the sun is in the right place
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> and the cloud matches quite well
[17:20] <daveake> If you were asked to do it, would you go with a plan that's "almost credible"?
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> i only have 10.8um weather sat so cant say for sure
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> but surely not this credible
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> the sun angle and everything
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> its all more or less correct... unless
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> what time was launch?
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> that tv frame grab?
[17:22] <Darkside> about 3 hours before the video they showed
[17:22] <Darkside> and it was just getting dark at that point
[17:22] <Darkside> the video shows daytime
[17:22] <Laurenceb_> sure
[17:22] <Laurenceb_> but what time bst?
[17:22] <Darkside> i dunno
[17:22] <Laurenceb_> video at apogee is at or around 9:50bst
[17:22] <Laurenceb_> almost exactly
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> but launch as a 9pm bst?
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> not enough time
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> but the clouds match - my guess is the real balloon as launched around 7 pm, but there was a real flight yesterday
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> they launched the "fake" balloons so they could show launch and fit it within the time of the showq
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> also it needed to just catch sunset at apogeee
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> anyway, bbl
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[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[18:17] <daveake> hello
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
[18:20] <daveake> Taking it easy
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> I got a question on the checksum part though
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> I saw the Communications Protocol page and the checksum function
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> will that make a checksum of the whole string or only the GPS part?
[18:37] <Randomskk> whole string. except for the $$ and the *.
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> and that function returns "crc" at the end
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> and my question is, how is that incoporated into the loop
[18:40] <number10> loop { read gps, construct string, calculate crc, send string }
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> mine is so far {read gps, read sensors, construct string, send string, save string to SD}
[18:49] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: you can work out the answer to this without having to ask the question
[18:50] <eroomde> 1) can you do the crc of the string if you have not yet constructed the string?
[18:50] <eroomde> no, of course not
[18:50] <eroomde> so it has to come after you have constructed the string
[18:50] <eroomde> is there any point calculating the crc after you've sent the string?
[18:50] <eroomde> no, of course not
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> no
[18:51] <eroomde> so you have to do it before sending the string
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah inbetween
[18:52] <daveake> It's like cream on strawberries
[18:52] <daveake> No point pouring it till the strawberries are there
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:53] <daveake> Or after you've eaten them
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> true
[18:53] <daveake> Simples
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[18:54] <costyn> so what happened to the German PYSY?
[18:54] <daveake> No idea
[18:55] <daveake> Bit strange
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[19:00] <costyn> ok :)
[19:05] <Elmar_PD3EM> Good evening!
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> hey Elmar_PD3EM
[19:08] <Elmar_PD3EM> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:09] <JamesBurton> * Hello to everyone
[19:09] <Elmar_PD3EM> Did you try to track the German PYSY Lunar_Lander ?
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> my radios are at the laboratory now
[19:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> ow...
[19:11] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: hiya
[19:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> hoi costyn
[19:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> it was strange with pysy
[19:11] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: did you try to track?
[19:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> I could decode for 99% abt 12.5 hrs after the last packet on the map by the pysy team
[19:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> ... 1.5 hours instead of 12.5...
[19:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> the last packet before the burst with just 2 characters wrong: $$PYSY,606,10:31:32,49.60629,12>04955,37770,9,5947, 16.4, 20.0*5411
[19:14] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: do you know if the recovered it?
[19:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> I have no idea... their last decode was at 09:02 UTC, 1.5 hrs before burst
[19:15] <costyn> ok, thats what it shows on the map, but didn't your decodes after that upload to the tracker?
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> is that 37770 m ?
[19:15] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: looks like it
[19:15] <Elmar_PD3EM> looks like that... that number was going up until that
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> costyn, I assume that the decodes had little errors and thus were rejected by the system
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. that 12>04955
[19:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> yep,
[19:16] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: but were all your packets during those 1.5 hours bad decodes?
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't track
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> as I said my radios are back at university now
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> which was stupid of course
[19:17] <Elmar_PD3EM> I was decoding costyn ;-)
[19:17] <costyn> sorry, that was meant to go to Elmar_PD3EM
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> most of the time 1 or 2 characters wrong so no good decode/upload
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[19:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> distance was close to 600 km, I could decode most for about 20 minutes until burst
[19:19] <eroomde> that's not bad still!
[19:19] <eroomde> 600km on 10mW it's very impressive
[19:20] <Elmar_PD3EM> in sure is!
[19:20] <costyn> certainly
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:20] <eroomde> i find a similar thing with rocket engines
[19:20] <eroomde> they're amazing when you think about it
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> Elmar_PD3EM, costyn you and Brian from Denmark, you should be able to hear my balloon too
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:20] <eroomde> a tube with a big hole at the end
[19:20] <Elmar_PD3EM> If I had a 100% decode you could have heared a loud woohoo over in the UK
[19:20] <eroomde> which has got 40 Bar inside it
[19:20] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: yea, do you have a planned launch date yet?
[19:21] <costyn> eroomde: yes, rockets are really quite cool
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[19:22] <daveake> Get a move on :)
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> https://github.com/WinzenFlyer
[19:22] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: I'm launching on the 19th of aug, so have your equipment at hand! :)
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> that will be after the exam, so that is good
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:22] <costyn> good
[19:22] <costyn> :)
[19:22] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'll put the new date in my agenda costyn !
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> costyn, Elmar_PD3EM https://github.com/WinzenFlyer
[19:23] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: thx :)
[19:23] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: turns out our not very active 3rd team member would like to help out with the launch, so I'll won't have a place in the car for your during the chase, but you're welcome to come watch the launch if you want
[19:26] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: I found a perfect place to launch closeby, now to hope the winds are favorable and not towards the north sea
[19:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> on the phone... BBL
[19:27] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: ok np http://imgur.com/a/PrsuH#7
[19:28] <costyn> jailbreaking my iphone so I can install the chasecar app :)
[19:32] <JamesBurton> Testing
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
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[19:35] <mattbrejza> eroomde: turns out the varactor isnt that temperature stable
[19:35] <mattbrejza> on this transmitter anyway
[19:35] <costyn> man perfboard really stinks when cut with a dremel
[19:36] <daveake> just use a sharp knife then snap it
[19:37] <costyn> ah thx... knew there must be a better way :)
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:37] <daveake> Quick and easy though not necessarily as neat
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> well when I did that it was neat
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[19:43] <JamesBurton> what internet browser to you use ?
[19:43] <costyn> well dremel is kinda neat, but you end up oblitering a row
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[19:51] <JamesBurton> What Internet Browser Do you use for Tracking and etc The Most Recommended?
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[19:57] <daveake> Evening fsphil-m. How's the island?
[19:58] <fsphil-m> Cold :) nice place though
[19:58] <daveake> Upu was telling us how hot it is where he is
[19:58] <fsphil-m> Git
[19:59] <daveake> :)
[19:59] <fsphil-m> I mean, very nice
[20:00] <costyn> :)
[20:03] <fsphil-m> bbl, going hunting
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[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> he is on holiday?
[20:05] <costyn> what... as in shooting little critters with guns?
[20:06] <daveake> Radio club outing
[20:06] <costyn> ah
[20:09] <JamesBurton> daveake : Will you be launch a ballon next month or not
[20:09] <daveake> Next month? Dunno
[20:10] <JamesBurton> dakeake What is "Dunno"
[20:11] <daveake> Dunno
[20:11] <daveake> Don't know
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[20:13] <JamesBurton> dakeake you have to look at your dictionary
[20:13] <daveake> You have a great future in comedy
[20:14] <JamesBurton> why?
[20:15] <JamesBurton> daveake why would i have a great future in comedy?
[20:15] <daveake> Because you have a special skill, and it's either "being funny" or "being incredibly, unbelievably, stupid"
[20:15] <daveake> "dunno" is short for "don't know"
[20:17] <daveake> So when you ask "what does dunno mean", and I say "don't know", then that's your answer
[20:17] <JamesBurton> dakeake You learn something new everyday
[20:17] <daveake> This is more painful than having a tooth extracted
[20:17] <daveake> And, at a rough guess, who do you think actually needs a dictionary?
[20:17] <daveake> Right, enough, I'm off. have fun
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[20:24] <JamesBurton> That was me
[20:27] <JamesBurton> Thank you bye
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[20:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> costyn: Nice place for a launch!
[20:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> good that your launch is in august costyn , I still need to mount the second antenna-mount on the car ;-)
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[21:29] <eroomde> mattbrejza: cool thanks for the info
[21:29] <eroomde> i suspected as much
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[21:43] <mattbrejza> i might try the other transmitter when i find it, the other issue is how much is it due to the varactor changing with temp, and how much is the crystal
[21:47] <griffonbot> @daveake: Looking good for the "Frog Scout in Spaaaace" tomorrow. Should be launching 12:30 - 1pm. Watch for 5thSCOUT and BUZZ on the map. #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/daveake/status/229332359521107968]
[21:48] <mattbrejza> lol just remembered why i didnt think they drifted with temperature - i had temperature based feedback calibrated (if that makes sense) the transmitter...
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> what does it mean?
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[21:49] <mattbrejza> the AVR measured temperature and adjusted the voltages given to the radio so the frequency was stable
[21:50] <mattbrejza> and in this case the shift was stable
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[21:51] <chrisstubbs> Evening guys
[21:51] <daveake> evening
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[21:52] <dom-android> I hear chrisstubbs has been covering himself in PCB etching acid
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> hello chrisstubbs
[21:52] <dom-android> Hello everyone by the way :)
[21:53] <chrisstubbs> Hi lunar. And nearly dom. Just finished the PCB design for the ATMEGA328/NTX2/GPS board
[21:53] <natrium42> hi ke(l)vin
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> hello natrium42
[21:54] <natrium42> :)
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> natrium42, http://s.gullipics.com/image/d/4/2/5yvm6j-jabl44-uklb/IMG0280.jpeg
[21:55] <chrisstubbs> Is that your payload prototype lunar?
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yes, in fact it is the final model so to speak
[21:56] <natrium42> cable pasta :D
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:56] <natrium42> looks good though :)
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> Haha yeah, Hard to get it looking tidy on stripboard, all working okay?
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> so far yes
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> the blue LED is tied to the RTTY part of the code
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> but it was really dim firstly
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> cause I forgot this line
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> pinMode(LED_PIN, OUTPUT);
[21:59] <natrium42> hooked up r/c servos to my iphone, works nicely
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:59] <nick_> Lunar_Lander: you weren't tempted to make it a shield?
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[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> ah I looked at EAGLE and so on
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> but I didn't understand that completely yet
[22:01] <nick_> I meant even on strip board
[22:01] <nick_> Although I guess laying that out on strip board could be a real pain
[22:01] <chrisstubbs> I find ExpressPCB quite easy Lunar, might be worth a try, Not got as many features as Eagle though.
[22:02] <chrisstubbs> Done a couple of sheilds on there before (myself and dom-android s first RF nightmare) and my current board http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/pcbv1.jpg
[22:02] <dom-android> chrisstubbs hasn't even bothered with an arduino :p stuck an atmega on a custom board!
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:03] <chrisstubbs> Was going to put a Nano in a socket but seemed like a bit of a waste ;)
[22:03] <chrisstubbs> Np
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> YAY Jeremy Blum finally made the arduino & GPS tutorial
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[22:07] <chrisstubbs> Got a link lunar?
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> dom-android just grabbed the PCB, tracks look perfect this time! (makes a nice change) http://flic.kr/p/cFi3Mq
[22:09] <Randomskk> is that photoexposed or toner transfer?
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtZEZYQG0xk&feature=plcp
[22:10] <dom-android> Ah that looks like the best one yet chrisstubbs
[22:11] <chrisstubbs> toner transfer, and yeah, usualy have to spend hours going over the tracks with a sharpie
[22:11] <DanielRichman> if that's photoexposed it looks much cleaner than the pcbs our school equipment (or maybe me) could make
[22:11] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: huh, really? photoexposure's usually pretty good
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> I would kill for a UV light box and all the kit for photoboards!
[22:12] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: always ended up with rubbish around the edges, which was less of an issue since it just got cut away
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> Yeah, i print onto the non pic heavy pages of "wired" magazine, seems to be the best method
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> and prep the boards using wire woll and acetone
[22:12] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: I use(d) transparencies
[22:12] <Randomskk> they work /really/ nicely
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> for toner transfer?
[22:13] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: oh, you mean the actual functional part is nice but there's crap at the edges of the PCB?
[22:13] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: yea
[22:13] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: yeah
[22:13] <Randomskk> it's a sheet of plastic
[22:13] <Randomskk> so the toner comes off really nicely
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> Oh nice, i will pick some up next time i am at the stationary store! Does the plastic not melt under the iron?
[22:13] <Randomskk> nope, it's acetate and pretty temperature resistant
[22:13] <DanielRichman> Sometimes dodgy bits in the middle; though I suppose actually after a couple of goes got the timing in the bubble bath right and they turned out pretty good
[22:14] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/2304263567 http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/2304270631 etc
[22:14] <chrisstubbs> What acid do you use?
[22:14] <DanielRichman> also the chemicals were only changed yearly so if you left your coursework too late developimg became more ... fun
[22:14] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: =D
[22:14] <Randomskk> chrisstubbs: used to use ferric chloride but it's terrible
[22:14] <Randomskk> now I use an organic compound the name of which i cannot remember but...
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> I have Sodium Persulphate (i think)
[22:15] <Randomskk> http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/Clear-PCB-etchant-29448/
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> munches through latex gloves though :P
[22:16] <DanielRichman> gloves?
[22:16] <DanielRichman> pssh
[22:16] <Randomskk> which is di-sodium peroxodisulphate hexahydrate
[22:17] <Randomskk> and turns a lovely copper blue
[22:17] <Randomskk> I made a bubble etch tank thing http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/2481064371/
[22:17] <Randomskk> it dissolved the air stone I was using to make the bubbles though >.>
[22:17] <chrisstubbs> Thats pretty cool. i did a few inside one of those ultrasonic cleaning baths
[22:17] <Randomskk> these days I just order PCBs made up
[22:18] <chrisstubbs> Sped up the process a lot but also took the toner off a little. If only i had the money :P
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpGN3oT1thA&feature=player_embedded
[22:18] <Randomskk> also usually I want two layers and very fine pitch and don't care much about wait time now
[22:19] <jcoxon> evening
[22:19] <dom-android> I'm on IRC in the car, this is odd
[22:19] <Randomskk> hiya jcoxon
[22:19] <chrisstubbs> HAHAHAH sysadmin song
[22:22] <chrisstubbs> Randomskk Yeah some layers insie would be nice, doing dual sided PCB's at home can be tricky. Where do you get them done?
[22:23] <Randomskk> depends on needs but seeedstudio.com or iteadstudio.com for cheap china ones, goldphoenixpcb.biz for whole panels, cambridge circuit company for very quick turnaround
[22:23] <Randomskk> (by very quick I mean email them the files at 5am having just finished designing overnight then pick up in the afternoon)
[22:24] <nick_> via robbing a bank?
[22:24] <Randomskk> cambridge circuit company sponsor CU Spaceflight
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> BTW
[22:24] <Randomskk> I don't tend to use them for personal PCBs, though :P
[22:24] <jcoxon> so my next pico atlas payload is pretty much complete
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> who of you knows the ANGRY VIDEO GAME NERD?
[22:25] <jcoxon> it should last quite a long time
[22:25] <Randomskk> is that british understatement?
[22:25] <jcoxon> trying to work out whats the best flight path
[22:26] <jcoxon> off into europe perhaps
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> jcoxon do you have a website for your project?
[22:27] <jcoxon> chrisstubbs, depends which project you want to look at
[22:27] <dom-android> chrisstubbs show me that PCB tomorrow.
[22:28] <chrisstubbs> Haha lets start with pico atlas
[22:28] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk for my latex balloon flights
[22:28] <jcoxon> for picoatlas (foil balloons)
[22:28] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas
[22:28] <chrisstubbs> And ill bring it tommorow Dom.
[22:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: you can sent it over here ;-)
[22:29] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, as always
[22:30] <chrisstubbs> Oh nice you have done a fair few balloons then!
[22:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: haha... but don't let it hang over the water ;-)
[22:31] <jcoxon> chrisstubbs, i've been doing it for a while
[22:31] <Randomskk> british understatement again :P
[22:31] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, if we go for a pico over europe will need help tracking onwards
[22:31] <jcoxon> Randomskk, hehe
[22:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: yep, we need more trackers around F, DL and OK,
[22:33] <jcoxon> so its got a solar power
[22:33] <jcoxon> panel*
[22:33] <jcoxon> which will help extend the flight time
[22:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> sounds great
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> we need a HAB olympics
[22:35] <chrisstubbs> Hahaha HAB2012
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> but rocketboy would take all the prizes :P
[22:35] <Elmar_PD3EM> thats already scheduled for september in London ;-)
[22:36] <jcoxon> yeah you guys coming to the conference?
[22:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'm not shure yet james
[22:36] <jcoxon> okay
[22:36] <jcoxon> appreciate its a long way!
[22:36] <chrisstubbs> I will be on the live stream if im around!
[22:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> might get expensive ;-)
[22:36] <jcoxon> eurostar!
[22:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> yeah but then I need to go on friday
[22:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> and leave on sunday
[22:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> Any ideas for overnight stays?
[22:38] <jcoxon> oh, when we stay in london we use Think Apartments
[22:38] <jcoxon> e.g. Think London Bridge
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, did you get the youtube link?
[22:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> thanks! Gonna Google for it ;-)
[22:39] <chrisstubbs> Yes sorry lunar its open in another tab waiting to be watched, i will take a look now!
[22:40] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, oh Think Tower Bridge is better
[22:40] <jcoxon> cheaper
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:41] <jcoxon> 79 GBP a night
[22:41] <Randomskk> !
[22:41] <Randomskk> wow, that's not cheap
[22:41] <Randomskk> well
[22:41] <Randomskk> I guess maybe it is for london
[22:41] <Randomskk> I've definitely been travelling on a budget too much :P
[22:41] <jcoxon> its very good for london
[22:42] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha Randomskk ;-) But indeed... London is not cheap
[22:42] <jcoxon> http://www.yha.org.uk/hostel/london-thameside
[22:43] <jcoxon> this is right where i live
[22:43] <chrisstubbs> Wow that hostel is a great price! didnt know there were any so close into london
[22:44] <jcoxon> can't vouch for how good it is
[22:44] <jcoxon> the think ones are whole apartments
[22:44] <jcoxon> with a kitchen etc
[22:45] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander Thanks for that vid, still watching it, interesting stuff
[22:46] <Elmar_PD3EM> sounds good jcoxon but I doubt I'm going to use a kitchen then ;-)
[22:47] <Elmar_PD3EM> bookmarked the Think Tower Bridge
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[22:50] <chrisstubbs> does anyone have the link for the conference info?
[22:50] <Randomskk> http://randomaerospace.com/ukhas/2012_UKHAS_conference_payments/Pay_Here.html
[22:50] <Randomskk> uh
[22:50] <Randomskk> http://randomaerospace.com/ukhas/2012_UKHAS_conference_payments/Pay_Here.html
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[22:50] <Randomskk> well
[22:50] <Randomskk> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2012
[22:51] <chrisstubbs> Cheers *duhh* why didnt i look on UKHAS? :P
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[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> cool chrisstubbs
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[22:57] <chrisstubbs> Going to buy myself a SD card module for the arduino i think!
[22:58] <chrisstubbs> £1.72 cant argue with that!
[22:58] Nick change: thanatos -> psophis
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> £20 thats not bad
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> that photo looks familiar
[23:01] <Randomskk> includes lunch! :p
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> is that off one of my early flights?
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> oh yeah
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> nice
[23:01] <jcoxon> includes lots!
[23:01] <jcoxon> good value for money
[23:01] <jcoxon> get involved!
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> pity about the train fare
[23:02] <chrisstubbs> I will talk to domlin about coming along tommorow, if we can scrape together the cash for tickets & the tube
[23:04] <jcoxon> book now for extra discounts on the trains i suspect
[23:06] <chrisstubbs> I usualy drive to newbury park to get the tube, works out cheaper than getting the train all the way in
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> I was also watching youtube and then I suddenly realized how close to success I have come now
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> only need to implement the checksum, get the thing to run with GPS having lock
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> and then testing can commence
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> we got a -80°C fridge
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> and want to test it on the roof of the physics dept.
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[23:15] <chrisstubbs> Nice one lunar. Looking forward to seeing it working!
[23:16] <chrisstubbs> yeah still havent figured out the checksum, it only seems to work for the first 2 messages then crashes
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> OHHHHH
[23:16] <chrisstubbs> eureka?
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> no, that is like "Oh no it doesn't work, where is the doctor where is the hospital"
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[23:18] <chrisstubbs> Haha anyway in off now, night guys! and good luck lunar!
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[23:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> GN chrisstubbs
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[23:42] <Elmar_PD3EM> time to go... good night all
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[00:00] --- Sun Jul 29 2012