highaltitude.log.20120726

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[03:18] <X-Scale> http://i.space.com/images/i/15939/original/baumgartner-before-jump.jpg
[03:22] <RobotCaleb> X-Scale: Cool picture
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[03:27] <X-Scale> Taken today
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[06:09] <nosebleedkt> yo !
[06:15] <nosebleedkt> any ideas how to keep the leading zero in the coordinates format? eg 40.01234
[06:16] <zyp> how are you trying to print it?
[06:18] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
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[06:23] <nosebleedkt> OH
[06:23] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[06:23] <nosebleedkt> i got same corners
[06:23] <nosebleedkt> why i didnt see that link before
[06:23] <nosebleedkt> :(
[06:24] <nosebleedkt> spent 60e to go 5 days in the wrong place
[06:24] <nosebleedkt> in fuel
[06:26] <nosebleedkt> i got both problems
[06:26] <nosebleedkt> with "0055"
[06:27] <nosebleedkt> omg
[06:27] <fsphil> yep, schoolboy error and many of us have done the same
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[06:29] <nosebleedkt> god damn it!
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[06:33] <jcoxon> such good pico launch weather
[06:33] <jcoxon> it pains me
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[06:35] <eroomde> morning
[06:35] <eroomde> such good stay-indoors-all-day-and-code weather
[06:36] <jcoxon> perfect!
[06:36] <eroomde> it isn't at all of course
[06:36] <eroomde> but yesterday was productive, today i sadly have to be a solder monkey
[06:37] <eroomde> customer projects first etc
[06:37] <eroomde> right as i'm in the zone
[06:39] <jcoxon> i've worked lates all week :-(
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[06:45] <eroomde> i might have to work doubles
[06:45] <eroomde> customer work during the day and software gps in the eve
[06:46] <jcoxon> would no insulation on a pico payload be a disaster?
[06:46] <Darkside> i'd put at least bubble wrap
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[07:04] Action: jcoxon is making his picoatlas7 prototype
[07:04] <jcoxon> its got straws as support beams :-p
[07:05] <UpuWork> lol
[07:05] <UpuWork> pictures :)
[07:05] <KT5TK> You have a picture or an artist's rendition?
[07:05] <daveake> Are they pink straws?
[07:05] <daveake> I'm running out of pink ones
[07:05] <UpuWork> I took them :)
[07:05] <KT5TK> With LED blinkies?
[07:06] <daveake> I knew there was something I'd missed so far
[07:06] <UpuWork> I stopped using LED's they take too much power
[07:06] <daveake> Just turn them off above 1km or something
[07:06] <KT5TK> Just needed to warn upcoming UFOs
[07:06] <daveake> I've not bothered since buzz1 tbh
[07:07] <daveake> Buzz1 *was* a UFO
[07:07] <UpuWork> was indeed :)
[07:07] <daveake> http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6162453606/in/set-72157627579944313/
[07:07] <UpuWork> love it, with the buzzer too
[07:08] <daveake> UpuWork pAVA has a nice new set of straws
[07:08] <daveake> You didn't take *all* the pink ones :)
[07:08] <KT5TK> Nice!. Was the bottom a 10 GHz dish?
[07:08] <jcoxon> uploading now
[07:08] <daveake> Constructed thus: http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6162276652/in/set-72157627579944313
[07:09] <UpuWork> haha KT5TK :)
[07:09] <daveake> http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6162298190/in/set-72157627579944313
[07:09] <daveake> and http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6162347092/in/set-72157627579944313
[07:09] <UpuWork> we are barely allowed to transmit in the air anyway
[07:11] <daveake> I was hoping the Buzz1 flight would spark a "UFO seen" news item but sadly it didn't get as far as Norfolk
[07:11] <UpuWork> I don't think they look up in Norfolk anyway, unless the full moon is out
[07:11] <daveake> True lol
[07:11] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/7648695270/in/photostream
[07:12] <jcoxon> 31g just no antenna or insulation
[07:12] <UpuWork> wow that solar panel is smaller than I thought
[07:12] <UpuWork> it looks fragile :)
[07:12] <jcoxon> the solar can power it up but can't boot the GPS
[07:12] <jcoxon> but can get the radio running
[07:13] <jcoxon> UpuWork, all its got to do is float
[07:13] <jcoxon> yeah the panel won't last that long
[07:13] <jcoxon> few days
[07:13] <KT5TK> Yes, I had the same problem with solar not powering up a GPS
[07:13] <UpuWork> yeah , your using your own regulator aren't you ?
[07:13] <jcoxon> for this one
[07:13] <jcoxon> not in the future :-p
[07:14] <UpuWork> wonder if the the boost on the other boards would be able to handle the GPS as well
[07:14] <jcoxon> you can't boost the solar supply
[07:14] <eroomde> u can boost the voltage
[07:14] <jcoxon> it seems to falter quite a bit
[07:15] <jcoxon> cuts out
[07:15] <UpuWork> would it be better if the board ran at@ 1.8v ?
[07:15] <jcoxon> certainly
[07:15] <UpuWork> ok I'll make a board that does when I get back from this weekend
[07:15] <KT5TK> GPS is the main problem when switching on
[07:15] <eroomde> sure but with solar cells they output essentially anything, then you have a power conditioning bit that provides the optimum load to the cells to get the max power out of it, then converts it to the voltage u want, the supply current hopefully being enough
[07:15] <UpuWork> Alphamicro were very nice and I now have some 1.8v GPS modules
[07:16] <UpuWork> same price as the 3.3v ones
[07:16] <UpuWork> any plans on a launch date ?
[07:16] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_point_tracking
[07:16] <jcoxon> eroomde, perhaps it was that my supply current wasn't enough to cope with the extra draw from the step up
[07:16] <eroomde> that + once of those buck-boost switch-mode power supplies
[07:17] <jcoxon> anyway this solar cell does 3.6v easily
[07:17] <eroomde> i think the most important bit is the peak power tracking
[07:17] <eroomde> if u don;t do that then you're throwing away huge amounts of power
[07:17] <UpuWork> still thats quite a thing, I'm impressed jcoxon
[07:18] <UpuWork> if Mad Max did HAB.. :)
[07:18] <jcoxon> launch plans - well when i get a free day really
[07:18] <KT5TK> Make sure you send an active reset from the micro to the GPS now and then
[07:18] <jcoxon> with sensible winds
[07:18] <KT5TK> When solar power comes slowly up GPS have boot problems
[07:18] <jcoxon> i'm going to test the setup + power saving with a different set of Lithiums
[07:18] <eroomde> i would love to launch a floater on one of those days where there are zero winds
[07:18] <eroomde> so it just sits in the sky
[07:18] <jcoxon> KT5TK, the code powers off the gps at hte beginning
[07:19] <jcoxon> so if it reboots the gps doesn't force it into an infinite loop
[07:19] <jcoxon> of reboots
[07:19] <KT5TK> Yes, but make sure you reset as well.
[07:20] <KT5TK> Maybe every 10 minutes or so
[07:21] <KT5TK> Solar power goes up and down smoothly and sometimes the GPS hangs because of that
[07:21] <jcoxon> thats what i like about this setup
[07:21] <jcoxon> i've also got lithiums onboard
[07:22] <jcoxon> so it can cope with drops in voltage
[07:22] <KT5TK> What if the batteries run out after the fifth night?
[07:23] <jcoxon> it'll be good going :-)
[07:23] <daveake> :)
[07:23] <jcoxon> so on pure solar we'd get radio but no position
[07:23] <jcoxon> so we could DF it
[07:23] <jcoxon> i say could...
[07:23] <Darkside> i really need to test this timestamping idea with the RTL dongles
[07:24] <Darkside> see if we can do wide-spaced TDOA
[07:24] <KT5TK> \What's TDOA?
[07:24] <Darkside> time direction of arrival
[07:24] <Darkside> i think :P
[07:24] <Darkside> time difference
[07:24] <Darkside> my bad
[07:25] <Darkside> hmm
[07:25] <Darkside> you know
[07:25] <zyp> how would you sync the receivers?
[07:25] <Darkside> if the transmitter was modulated based on some kind of gps time reference, maybe you could do trilateration
[07:25] <Darkside> zyp: an accurate gps timepulse, injected into the ADC
[07:26] <Darkside> such a pulse can be located in a chunk of received IQ data easily
[07:26] <zyp> hmm, interesting idea
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[07:26] <Darkside> and from that you can synchronise data from multiple receivers
[07:27] <KT5TK> For some kind of DF ing?
[07:28] <Darkside> yeah
[07:28] <zyp> how accurate do the gps time pulses get? :p
[07:28] <Darkside> still, if you want to get a rough location of a payload, just get 2 people ind ifferent locations to swig a yagi around
[07:28] <Darkside> and get a bearing
[07:28] <Darkside> zyp: if you know the gps antennas location to considerably accuracy, you can get timepulses accurate to ~40nS
[07:29] <Darkside> with some systems, lower
[07:29] <KT5TK> So the receiver would need to add his time too and then send the data to a central server, right?
[07:29] <Darkside> yeah, something like that
[07:31] <KT5TK> I believe the biggest issue is the time delay in the SDR, which you need to eliminate. But the crystals in the SDR units aren't very precise.
[07:31] <Darkside> thi is the idea of the inband timepulse
[07:32] <Darkside> means you can sync the received data to each other based on that timepulse
[07:32] <Darkside> with that method, usb transfer delays don't matter
[07:34] <KT5TK> So another reference station is sending yet additional time pulses with a constant delay to the (balloon) tx and we exactly know the position of the reference station. Correct?
[07:34] <Darkside> ahh no, not what i mean
[07:35] <Darkside> the purpose of the timepulse is to provide a starting point for a data set
[07:35] <KT5TK> So far ok.
[07:35] <Darkside> the idea being that the receiver knows that time X occured at sample Y
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[07:35] <Darkside> the receiver can then upload data, starting from sample Y to a backend server
[07:35] <Darkside> other receivers to the same thing - all with the same X time
[07:35] <Darkside> that part is synchronised by GPS
[07:36] <Darkside> now we end up with a data set: multiple IQ samples, all starting at exactly the same time, but recorded at different locations
[07:36] <Darkside> in that data set you'll see the difference in arrival time of signals from the balloon
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[07:39] <KT5TK> I'm missing the part where you divide out the time delay in the dongle. But probably you can find out through the phase of the IQ or something.
[07:39] <KT5TK> I'll need to read up about it.
[07:39] <Darkside> the receivers need to have a similar frontend
[07:40] <Darkside> like, they need to have similar delays between teh antenna and the ADC
[07:40] <KT5TK> Yes, but they may vary a lot. due to different temperature and cheap crystals
[07:40] <Darkside> yeah
[07:40] <Darkside> there may be sample rate offsets
[07:41] <Darkside> but you could possibly correct for that by injecting timepulses at regulat intervals
[07:41] <KT5TK> That's why I came up with the reference transmitting station
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[07:46] <KT5TK> If you know the position of the reference station (and multiple receivers) you can calculate the position of the balloons by the difference between ref and balloon pulse at each receiving station. The delay of each SDR is then irrelevant
[07:47] <jcoxon> phew - thought it would be a good idea to test that my solar does power the board
[07:47] <jcoxon> got some tones coming through :-p
[07:47] <KT5TK> Given that the balloon and the ref station are GPS synchronized
[07:47] <Darkside> KT5TK: this not got a gps synchronised balloon
[07:48] <Darkside> this is assuming there is no kind of synchronisation to gps on the modulation
[07:48] <Darkside> if you did synchronise the modulation to gps, then it'd be far easier
[07:48] <Darkside> as you'd be able to calculate absolute time delay between the balloon and ground
[07:49] <Darkside> ok time for me to head off
[07:49] <Darkside> back on later
[07:50] <KT5TK> jcoxon: The correct tones that you want?
[07:51] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:52] <KT5TK> Good! Gratulations!
[07:52] <jcoxon> in its lowest power mode it just does a single tone every 10 seconds
[07:52] <jcoxon> thats what it starts up into
[07:53] <KT5TK> QRSS?
[07:54] <eroomde> good idea ^
[07:55] <jcoxon> could do
[07:55] <jcoxon> could also just use slow-hell
[07:56] <jcoxon> next job is to run the payload outside with a set of lithiums
[07:56] <jcoxon> see what sort of duration i can get
[07:57] <KT5TK> Ideally it should never stop until you shut it off
[07:58] <KT5TK> and transmit as often as you have power available
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[07:59] <jcoxon> KT5TK, very true
[07:59] <jcoxon> if i can miniaturize the regulator etc to a pcb (which Upu has already done)
[07:59] <jcoxon> then i could add a second solar panel
[08:00] <jcoxon> in parrallel
[08:00] <jcoxon> which should definitely give me enough current for the GPS
[08:00] <jcoxon> right i better be off
[08:00] <jcoxon> bbl
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[08:01] <KT5TK> I've powered an entire 10m TX with 250 mW on 3 12V panels last year. No batteries at all.
[08:02] <KT5TK> Only the GPS dropped out because it didn't reset
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[08:03] <KT5TK> Was transmitting CW morse code
[08:04] <KT5TK> Same type of solar panels, just a bit longer
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[08:52] <JamesBurton> * Hello to Everyone from James Burton
[08:54] <nosebleedkt_> LOL
[08:55] <JamesBurton> What Size Balloon do i need for a package weight of 678 g
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[08:56] <daveake> I suggest you actually make the whole thing before you bother with the balloon
[08:56] <daveake> 1 - It won't be 678g
[08:56] <daveake> 2 - By the time you've made it, the latex will have decomposed
[08:57] <MrScienceMan> hey my HX1 is in hungary
[08:57] <MrScienceMan> :(
[08:57] <daveake> Did you want it there?
[08:57] <JamesBurton> Because It will have a backup system just in case of the first one fail
[08:57] <MrScienceMan> no
[08:57] <daveake> Didn't think so :/
[08:57] <MrScienceMan> it was posted on 20th from the UK
[08:58] <daveake> JB It'll be more than 678g
[08:58] <daveake> You forgot the tape
[08:58] <daveake> and the parachute
[08:58] <daveake> (just guessing)
[08:58] <daveake> Anyway, too early to worry about it
[08:58] <WillDuckworth> daveake can't help himself
[08:59] <WillDuckworth> ;0
[08:59] <daveake> :)
[08:59] <JamesBurton> i am asking so i know wot i need
[08:59] <daveake> You need a balloon
[08:59] <Randomskk> possibly a dictionary
[08:59] <daveake> If you're asking for budgetary purposes, set aside £50
[09:00] <daveake> (for the balloon. Dictionary extra)
[09:00] <JamesBurton> Randomskk : why a dictionary
[09:00] <daveake> It's "what" not "wot", as in "What do you think of my website"
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[09:01] <nosebleedkt_> JamesBurton: my payload was 1kg. After tape and parachute it went to 1.346g
[09:01] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ what size balloon
[09:01] <daveake> There you go. Tape (well, duct tape) is heavy, and you'll use a lot of it
[09:02] <daveake> http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[09:02] <JamesBurton> you will be about 1 kg
[09:02] <daveake> You decide
[09:03] <daveake> Anyway, I have some foam to sniff, er, cut ...
[09:04] <nosebleedkt_> JamesBurton: if you are at 680g now consider making your calculation for a 1kg payload
[09:04] <JamesBurton> daveake : My Package could be about 1000 - 1200 g may be a ballon size about 1000 or 1200 g
[09:07] <JamesBurton> went it is finish i have to show you a image of it before it was launch
[09:08] <nosebleedkt_> JamesBurton: did you my images?
[09:08] <nosebleedkt_> there are some islands in the pics
[09:08] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ : Did you find your payload
[09:09] <nosebleedkt_> yes
[09:09] <nosebleedkt_> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.493992450614804.128626.259791880701530&type=3
[09:09] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ no i did not some of your images
[09:10] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_
[09:10] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ : How high did you got
[09:11] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ How Hign did you go
[09:11] <nosebleedkt_> 38884
[09:11] <JamesBurton> in feet
[09:11] <nosebleedkt_> meters
[09:11] <nosebleedkt_> 38.8km
[09:12] <JamesBurton> 127 572.178 feet
[09:13] <nosebleedkt_> with 200e i can fly a new mission
[09:13] <nosebleedkt_> its so nice
[09:13] <nosebleedkt_> no need to build anything
[09:13] <nosebleedkt_> only bugfixes in code
[09:13] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ : Will You be launch a balloon again ( This Month)
[09:13] <nosebleedkt_> no lol
[09:14] <nosebleedkt_> i but i will launch a second one for sure
[09:14] <JamesBurton> went?
[09:14] <nosebleedkt_> dunoo
[09:15] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ what is dunoo
[09:16] <nosebleedkt_> don;t know
[09:16] <JamesBurton> ha
[09:16] <nosebleedkt_> its dunno actually
[09:17] <JamesBurton> nosebleedkt_ are you a dunno
[09:17] <nosebleedkt_> you got much sun in zakynthos?
[09:17] <JamesBurton> why
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[09:17] <JamesBurton> blue skys
[09:18] <JamesBurton> dakeake : what is weather
[09:20] <JamesBurton> buy for now
[09:20] <JamesBurton> bye for now
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[09:21] Action: WillDuckworth shakes head and goes back to work
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[09:25] <kokey> looks like for a good weather photography shot, a wide angle lens would be nice
[09:28] <costyn> 'what is dunoo' when he's making typo's all the time :)
[09:29] <kokey> you have to wonder when the greek person in greece speaks better english than the english person in greece
[09:29] <costyn> this has been asked a bazillion times here already, but where do I submit my habitat flight doc string?
[09:29] <costyn> kokey: I didn't want to say it, but yes
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[09:29] <kokey> we can say it, we're not greek or english ;-)
[09:30] <UpuWork> costyn put it on pastebin and link here
[09:30] <costyn> UpuWork: ok
[09:30] <gonzo_> I was thinking the same, but if you've seen the state of emails I get from people in the UK, it's not that suprising
[09:30] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[09:30] <nosebleedkt_> there must be a problem with this guy
[09:30] <nosebleedkt_> i dont believe he is brit
[09:30] <costyn> UpuWork: http://pastebin.com/7gCwGdpV
[09:31] <UpuWork> impressive name :)
[09:31] <costyn> UpuWork: heh
[09:31] <UpuWork> I've requested it bear with the HAB Hub team
[09:31] <costyn> UpuWork: all of the good names were taken already
[09:31] <kokey> UpuWork: I was confused a bit with the printing on the rfm breakout board, the SPI pins looks like they are marked SPI and SPL
[09:32] <costyn> UpuWork: thanks!
[09:32] <UpuWork> Hey kokey
[09:32] <UpuWork> Let me check that in a few mins
[09:32] <kokey> UpuWork: that said, I worked out SPI=SPO and SPL=SPI and got it working in the end
[09:33] <gonzo_> actually the poster has a good name: Agueston
[09:33] <UpuWork> there will be a reason why i did it like that
[09:34] <gonzo_> good old CAA, the notam didn't turn up for last weekend and don't look like it will ge here for this one either
[09:35] <kokey> gonzo_: darn this would have been a nice weekend for a launch especially for a camera payload
[09:35] <gonzo_> I put three weekends on it, last, this and next
[09:36] <kokey> they're probably away on holiday this week
[09:36] <gonzo_> we planned a couple of fob cams. One in video mode to get the launch and one taking timed frames
[09:37] <UpuWork> gonzo_ be careful they jam GPS
[09:38] <gonzo_> yes, have heard that
[09:39] <gonzo_> that's something that I need to do, test some shielding etc
[09:39] <costyn> UpuWork: after the flight doc has been processed, it means it will appear in dl-fldigi and if I run any tests with the payload my payload will appear on the map right? (or is that only during the launch window?)
[09:40] <costyn> "appear in dl-fldigi" = is in the list for autoconfigure; is what I meant :)
[09:40] <UpuWork> only in the launch window
[09:40] <costyn> ok
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[09:42] <Laurenceb__> eroomde: ping
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[09:45] <eroomde> Laurenceb__: pong
[09:46] <fsphil> daveake: so what is weather really?
[09:46] <Laurenceb__> eroomde: so i was thinking about altimeter
[09:46] <Laurenceb__> i have a slightly goofy way to build it
[09:46] <Laurenceb__> i think i said yesterday
[09:46] <Laurenceb__> - basically off the shelf transmitter ic like a chipcon
[09:47] <Laurenceb__> on 434 or 868
[09:47] <Laurenceb__> doing GFSK with a square wave
[09:47] <Laurenceb__> well, a square wave input
[09:47] <eroomde> with you so far...
[09:47] <Laurenceb__> then you have a coil of several m of coax (annoying i know), and the ant
[09:48] <Laurenceb__> so that minimum distance is say ~10m round trip path
[09:48] <Laurenceb__> next to the transmitter you have something nonliner, like a mixer with two inputs tied
[09:49] <Laurenceb__> you can get suitable ics in 6 pin sc-70
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[09:49] <Laurenceb__> this goes to 10khz to 100khz bandpass than adc on the micro that generates the square wave (using pwm?)
[09:49] <Laurenceb__> thats all the hardware done
[09:50] <Laurenceb__> - oh youll need an amp in there
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[09:50] <Laurenceb__> so 4 ics
[09:51] <Laurenceb__> firmware works by varying the pwm period, to sweep over 10 to 100khz or something like that
[09:51] <jsowman> UpuWork: excellent, what did they say?
[09:51] <Laurenceb__> the chipcon is fixed on +-500khz modulation, then you do lock in on the micro to the current pwm period, and find the amplitude
[09:52] <Laurenceb__> plot amplitude versus pwm frequency and find gradient/mean. this gives altitude 8 some scale factor
[09:53] <Laurenceb__> you could easily get out altitude at tens of hz or faster with an stm32
[09:53] <Laurenceb__> job done :P
[09:54] <daveake> fsphil: Weather is a thing that happens
[09:54] <Laurenceb__> the maths is a little more complex
[09:55] <eroomde> I see i think
[09:55] <Laurenceb__> you are trying to detect small phase shifts introduced by the +-500KHz
[09:56] <Laurenceb__> you cant just look at the phase shift as you dont know the reflection strength
[09:56] <Laurenceb__> so you vary the slew rate, forcing the time of flight to effect the phase shift
[09:56] <Laurenceb__> then the gradient trick allows you to solve for time of flight
[09:58] <Laurenceb__> gtg, cya
[09:59] <UpuWork> I think its added costyn
[10:01] <costyn> UpuWork: thanks!
[10:03] <costyn> can anybody explain to me what Laurence just wrote in simpler terms? Seeing lots of individual terms which I know what they mean, but together... derp!
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[10:06] <fsphil> that's the LB effect
[10:07] <fsphil> there was something ablut flights, tricks and I'm sure I saw the yeti in there somewhere
[10:07] <costyn> hehe
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[10:18] <costyn> UpuWork: autoconfigured carrier shift is 23 in fldigi for some reason, instead of 460. any idea?
[10:18] <UpuWork> yeah its an odd shift
[10:18] <UpuWork> Thats fixed in newer dl-fldigis
[10:18] <UpuWork> that aren't released yet
[10:18] <costyn> ah
[10:18] <costyn> oh
[10:18] <UpuWork> just set it manually
[10:18] <UpuWork> or amend the document to 425 shift
[10:19] <costyn> well I can ammend the document, but don't want to resolder the resistors :)
[10:20] <fsphil> you'll have to change the shift anyway, better to have the document set it closer
[10:20] <costyn> ok
[10:21] <costyn> UpuWork: http://pastebin.com/xfAci9ey changed to 425
[10:23] <danielsaul> costyn: Changed
[10:23] <costyn> danielsaul: thank you
[10:34] <kokey> I have another idea for an altimeter
[10:34] <kokey> how about receiving timing signals from satellites, and working out position from that
[10:34] <kokey> I'm sure there must be some chips that can do that
[10:36] <Randomskk> you know we're talking about a) centimetre accuracy b) height above ground c) height with absolute accuracy
[10:36] <gonzo_mob> yep thae are called gps chips
[10:37] <zyp> Randomskk, and I want a pony
[10:37] <Randomskk> zyp: radar altimetres
[10:37] <Randomskk> it's not impossible just a bit hard
[10:38] <zyp> sure, I'm not arguing that
[10:39] <Randomskk> oh you're just saying you want a pony, that's fine then
[10:39] <zyp> but, centimeter accuracy above ground?
[10:39] <Randomskk> but this probably isn't the place to go into detail on your equestrian fantasies
[10:39] <Randomskk> zyp: for a total range up to about 30m
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[10:40] <zyp> ah
[10:40] <zyp> interesting
[10:40] <zyp> then I want one too
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[10:40] <gonzo_mob> if oy's ponies should the alt be measured in hands?
[10:41] <Randomskk> :D
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[10:53] <kokey> just use a piece of string
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[10:55] <kokey> and ponies are the reason I didn't have a computer as a kid, and had to learn enough to piece my first PC together at the age of 15 from various scraps
[10:55] <kokey> hmmm, perhaps that was a good thing
[10:56] <Randomskk> ponies are great
[10:58] <kokey> but yeah, basically, when there was talk of getting a computer, my sister insisted that she wanted a pony
[10:58] <Randomskk> ah
[10:58] <Randomskk> did you get to ride the pony?
[10:58] <kokey> she never built her own pony
[10:58] <kokey> and when I built my computer, she used it to play tetris on
[10:58] <daveake> Did she every have to switch it off then on again?
[10:58] <daveake> ever
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[10:59] <kokey> I had to hex edit the high score file to beat her tetris score
[10:59] <kokey> and then she would spend some time and beat it again
[11:00] <kokey> well, until she clocked the score and worked up from -32768 again
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[11:00] <Randomskk> <:\
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[11:05] <gonzo_mob> i had to make i/f boards for my first computer on vero
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[11:05] <gonzo_mob> seems a lonh time ago
[11:06] <gonzo_mob> ( eh, wjen i were a lad...)
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[11:08] <kokey> mine was just collected parts from other people's upgrades really, 8086 motherboards, ram chips from other motherboards and video cards, second hand monitor I had to fix the vhold on, power supply with no fan, old MFM hard drives, etc.
[11:08] <kokey> resistor ladder DAC for a sound card
[11:10] <gonzo_mob> the first pc i made had mfm drives and yhe motor cctd were not well. had to spin them up with a drill
[11:11] <daveake> My first program got eaten by a dig
[11:11] <daveake> dog
[11:12] <gonzo_mob> he liked punch tape?
[11:12] <daveake> bingo
[11:12] <daveake> :)
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[11:13] <kokey> I had an MFM and an RLL drive, but both formatted MFM so I could use them together on the same controller
[11:13] <daveake> 2 drives? Luxury! .... :)
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[11:16] <joph> kokey, nice, my first "pc" (commodore) was also from the junkyard, even the screen :D
[11:16] <kokey> well I started with only having floppy drives
[11:16] <kokey> ah, yeah, I managed to get a c64 a few years later
[11:17] <kokey> and got my hands on two floppy drives
[11:17] <kokey> and made that cable to the floppy drive from the lpt port
[11:17] <kokey> so I could download c64 software from the net and load it onto my c64
[11:17] <joph> nice
[11:17] <kokey> though I had to borrow the only TV in the house at night to play on it
[11:17] <joph> back in these times i hadn't internet access
[11:18] <kokey> this was in 1994-1995 abouts
[11:18] <kokey> when the commercial internet just started out
[11:18] <kokey> but I was out in the sticks, I had to do phone phreaking to be able to dial up to the net
[11:19] <kokey> I would use my lpt port resistor ladder DAC to generate the dual tones I needed to seize trunks and reroute phone calls
[11:19] <joph> nice
[11:20] <kokey> later on I managed to get good enough metal cassette tapes to record the tones on to play it back, so I didn't have to shell out of my terminal package and load up the dialer software
[11:20] <joph> i had never a chance to start programming in these days cause i was there arround 10 years old and the local libary hasn't books like "howto programm in basic"
[11:21] <kokey> yeah I had the same problem, learned BASIC and LOGO from library books, years before I even touched a computer, and also years later during holiday at my dad's office there was a PC with GWBASIC and the books
[11:21] <Darkside> ahh, inband signalling, how we miss you
[11:22] <kokey> Darkside: some of those trunks are still around actually
[11:22] <Darkside> scary
[11:23] <kokey> though usually filtered well enough on the local side to prevent abuse
[11:26] <kokey> yeah they're still around between some countries, where doing an analog satellite connection still makes some sense
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[11:31] <gonzo_mob> i missed all the phreaking. my early experiences involved a ladder, crock clips and sa police cell. sort of spoiled it a bit
[11:34] <Laurenceb> eroomde: back
[11:36] <Laurenceb> i havent actually looked at the maths properly
[11:36] <Laurenceb> for the altimeter idea
[11:38] <gonzo_mob> yhought we decided a pony on a string was the soln
[11:38] <Laurenceb> its fur would catch fire
[11:39] <daveake> In case anyone wants one, Maplin have an offer on their 300W car mains inverter. £45 down to £20. This has been a public service announcement.
[11:40] <Laurenceb> *ding dong*
[11:40] <Laurenceb> *musak continues*
[11:40] <daveake> :)
[11:41] <costyn> daveake: that is cheap. and it's not complete crap?
[11:41] <daveake> Chep yes. Complete crap - no idea :)
[11:41] <daveake> Cheap even
[11:43] <UpuWork> its complete crap I use one but it works
[11:43] <UpuWork> and its cheap
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[12:15] <kokey> daveake: thanks, that's useful
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[12:15] <kokey> I've got a jump starter with an invertor, but it's only got a tiny mA input so it's useless for any 'live' usage
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[12:21] <eroomde> maplin true story
[12:22] <eroomde> [customer]: This lamp doesn't seem to be working
[12:22] <eroomde> [maplin guy]: ah, i'll check the fuse for you
[12:23] <Randomskk> cool story bro
[12:23] <eroomde> [maplin guy sets multimeter to volt mode and probs live and neutral on the loose lamp plug]: hmm, no volts coming out of the plug
[12:23] <Randomskk> .....
[12:23] <eroomde> [maplin guy] aha! i know why. the lamb isn't on
[12:23] <eroomde> [maplin guy turns the lamp switch to on]: hmm, still no volts coming out
[12:23] <daveake> Randomskk: That was premature Ed-adulation
[12:23] <eroomde> it must be faulty, we'll take it back
[12:24] <daveake> See, he's still going
[12:24] <eroomde> i intervened at this point
[12:24] <nick_> The Oxford maplin sucks
[12:24] <fsphil> He wasn't aware of the ed-iquette
[12:24] <eroomde> all maplins suck
[12:24] <nick_> When I went in to ask for some stuff they just told me I could use their computers to google
[12:24] <Randomskk> eroomde: was your intervention a success?
[12:24] <nick_> I got some help from the southampton one once when I was a school kid
[12:25] <daveake> Nearly as bad as someone wanting to measure the impedance of the mains with an ohmmeter
[12:26] <Darkside> or measure the current capacity of a battery
[12:26] <Darkside> using 10A mode
[12:26] <Randomskk> <:|
[12:26] <daveake> ^ nearly happened with my DMM
[12:27] <kokey> seems like the tottenham court road one doesn't stock the components and parts the others do
[12:27] <daveake> Sorry, analogue
[12:27] <eroomde> Randomskk: i don;t know how you define success in this context Randomskk
[12:27] <daveake> Friend asked if my meter had a 10A meter.
[12:27] <daveake> "Er, why you asking?"
[12:27] <eroomde> we did see that the fuse was blown, which i guess is a success
[12:27] <daveake> "I want to test my car battery"
[12:27] <eroomde> but the maplins guy is still a cretin
[12:27] <eroomde> so not a success
[12:27] <daveake> yup
[12:27] <craag> At the southampton one last year: [manager]: You'll need an adaptor to use internet on it [android tablet], the socket looks too small for a standard ethernet plug [the usb socket].
[12:27] <daveake> lol
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[12:28] <Randomskk> where do they find these people :|
[12:28] <nick_> eroomde: did you talk to the manager?
[12:28] <kokey> I figure online ordering changed maplin's business model dramatically, so they don't have much point of having staff with much of a clue, it's more about impulse sales now
[12:28] <craag> A student employee did step in at that moment and corrected him..
[12:28] <daveake> Yeah, and last-minute stuff
[12:33] <Laurenceb> they never have components in stock
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[12:49] <fsphil> nice shot of a storm from a balloon, blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/07/25/high-schoolers-totally-shred-on-a-high-altitude-balloon/
[12:49] <fsphil> boo firefox, http://
[12:52] <UpuWork> looks good
[12:52] <costyn> fsphil: awesome burst pic wow
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[12:59] <fsphil> I didn't read if that was a photo or a video frame
[12:59] <fsphil> if it's a photo, that's great timing
[13:00] <kokey> I think the description said it was lucky photo timing
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[15:05] <nigelvh> morning all
[15:07] <fsphil> evening nigelvh :)
[15:07] <nigelvh> How did the day treat you?
[15:08] <fsphil> not bad- no printers broke, always a bonus
[15:08] <nigelvh> As an IT guy, I can agree that no printers breaking is a good thing.
[15:08] <nigelvh> Though, for us the printers seem reliable, it's the print server that gets messed up.
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[15:09] Nick change: me -> Guest27089
[15:09] <nigelvh> "Nigel, this printer isn't working" "No, all the printers aren't working"
[15:09] <nigelvh> YAY
[15:10] <nigelvh> Also looking forward to leaving work a bit early today and going to work on our local ATV repeater.
[15:10] <fsphil> coolies
[15:10] <nigelvh> Installing a new antenna and some new internet streaming equipment today.
[15:10] <fsphil> I do not believe there are any ATV stations within my reach
[15:11] <fsphil> seems like a fun thing to do
[15:11] <nigelvh> Then make one. That's what we did.
[15:12] <fsphil> hmm.. well I do have a nice colinear up there for 2.4ghz - should cover the 13cm band
[15:12] <kokey> what's a printer?
[15:12] <nigelvh> Also, with reasonably good antennas, you can be a good distance away. My house is about 13 miles away from our repeater.
[15:12] <fsphil> torture device kokey
[15:12] <kokey> yeah, my girlfriend made it sound like it was one
[15:12] <costyn> relevant: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/printers
[15:12] <nigelvh> It'll be a torture device as soon as I start beating people with one.
[15:13] <kokey> she had a job where she had to print a lot of stuff out all the time
[15:13] <fsphil> there are times I wonder if it would be cheaper and quicker just to hire someone to sketch the documents
[15:13] <costyn> eheh
[15:14] <nigelvh> I have had good luck with a small number of printers.
[15:14] <fsphil> nice costyn. I should print.. oh
[15:14] <nigelvh> We've got some large dell color lasers here at work that I haven't had any issue with, and I've got a small HP laser at home that works pretty reliably.
[15:14] <fsphil> Ricoh here, and the thing is evil
[15:15] <costyn> fsphil: heheh
[15:15] <fsphil> I used to have a Brother laser printer at home, but that broke too
[15:15] <costyn> got to go... ttyl!
[15:16] <UpuWork> are we really talking about printerS ?
[15:16] <Guest27089> Hi All, buy a lexmark C543dn it will never break down because it's cheaper to buy a new one than replace the toners!
[15:16] <nigelvh> Oh yeah, we had a ricoh at the last place, hated that thing.
[15:17] <nigelvh> Also UpuWork, yes
[15:17] <nigelvh> We are talking about printers.
[15:17] <nigelvh> And general disdain for them.
[15:17] <kokey> we've got fancy xerox or hp printers here, that seem to work most of the time
[15:17] <Guest27089> Anyone know if there's an optimum insulation thickness for HAB electronics?
[15:17] <kokey> and you print to the 'cloud', walk to a printer of your choice, swipe your card, and select your print job
[15:18] <UpuWork> Guest27089 (type /Nick something_interesting) depends really on how much heat your payload generates but anything tha is strong enough to contain the electronics is usually enough
[15:20] <nigelvh> I hate all this buzz about the term "cloud" which is absoloutely rediculous. "Private clouds" "Public clouds" Bah. It's a bunch of servers that either we own, or someone else owns, that some guy (likely me) has to take care of. It's not some amorphous blob of money and processor cycles.
[15:21] <nigelvh> </ITGUYRANT>
[15:21] <WillDuckworth> but marketing love clouds
[15:22] <nigelvh> Yes, they're all nice and fluffy until you actually have to work on them. Then they're just normal servers.
[15:22] <Guest27089> Marketing like anything that might generate revenue
[15:23] <Guest27089> Azure is having a rainy day in western EU
[15:24] <Guest27089> Is polystyrene the norm or is there a benefit from PU?
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[15:27] <fsphil> we've enough clouds as it is
[15:27] <fsphil> (actually not today, the sun is shining -- it's like a summer or something)
[15:28] <WillDuckworth> don't say it too loudly
[15:28] <nigelvh> You can have some of our summer. I'd go for an overcast/rainy day about now.
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[15:38] <kokey> nigelvh: yeah cloud as a buzzword, like devops, also annoys me. that said, I've gotten used to using the term 'cloud' in networking and server clusters over 10 years ago so I'm used to it.
[15:40] <nigelvh> I think the thing that gets me most is people seem to think "Oh it's the cloud, we don't have to manage it or take care of it or whatnot" which is utterly wrong. It's the same work for me as a server in house.
[15:47] <kokey> yeah, too true
[15:48] <kokey> especially when you have a team of people who like to make changes manually to systems
[15:48] <kokey> this just makes it easier for them to spin up even more systems to manage badly
[16:05] <Randomskk> nigelvh: it can be a blob of processor cycles
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[16:05] <Randomskk> it's only clouds of virtual machines like ec2 or something you have to manage super hard
[16:05] <Randomskk> there are clouds where they literally just compute for you
[16:05] <Randomskk> :/
[16:05] <Randomskk> http://www.picloud.com/
[16:06] <nigelvh> For a second that URL made me think of a PIC cloud, and I would TOTALLY get behind that just for the sheer nerdiness of it.
[16:06] <nigelvh> Also that PiCloud stuff looks neat.
[16:07] <nigelvh> Most of what I've seen the cloud used for in my current and former employers wasn't for just processing power. It was about hosting something and not buying servers.
[16:07] <WillDuckworth> ideal for password cracking that
[16:08] <Randomskk> nigelvh: yea. I mean, I'm cool with that too, but
[16:08] <Randomskk> you do have to do it properly
[16:08] <Randomskk> at work we use The Cloud to spin up boxes real quick as demand changes and etc
[16:08] <Randomskk> but they're all provisioned and configured properly
[16:08] <nigelvh> Yes. That is a valid use for the cloud
[16:08] <Randomskk> yay chef, etc
[16:09] <nigelvh> Or you could just use the term "virtualization" and say "we had our host spin up a couple of extra virtual servers for us to deal with increasing load", which is far more descriptive than "elastic compute cloud"
[16:09] <Randomskk> agreed
[16:10] <nigelvh> I think that virtual servers and hosting providers and whatnot are all good things and have their place when used properly, it's just the term "cloud" and what people imagine with it, that gets my goat.
[16:10] <kokey> yeah I prefer to use virtualisation to describe that
[16:11] <kokey> I only use the cloud to refer to something a bit more abstract
[16:11] <zyp> virtualization != cloud
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[16:14] <kokey> what's remarkable about describing a solution that is really in 'the cloud' is that the abstraction doesn't really seem to be an issue when it comes to identifying and explaining problem to users
[16:14] <kokey> it's like it's made it easier
[16:15] <kokey> where before, where you have 'the line is down' or 'the server is down' or 'the internet is down' which caused confusion all over
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[16:16] <nigelvh> The best is when I worked at a small ISP and things would go south I could really say 'the internet is down'
[16:19] <kokey> back in those days people asked me if I worked for the internet
[16:23] <nigelvh> "yes"
[16:25] <kokey> I set up a small ISP, early Linux slackware box, had to patch in adaptec scsi drivers into the kernel, cyclades multi serial board, US robotics modem
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[16:26] <kokey> US Robotics Couriers, awesome modems those
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[16:40] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/26/baumgartner_skydive/
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[17:48] <eroomde> what's new peeps?
[17:49] <nigelvh> Magic
[17:50] <nigelvh> Also working on filters.
[17:50] <nigelvh> That's less magic.
[17:50] <eroomde> water or electromagnetic?
[17:50] <nigelvh> EM
[17:51] <nigelvh> chebychev band-pass to be precise.
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[17:54] <nigelvh> Been chatting with KT5TK about his PecanNut design, and I'm looking to do something similar for our rockets/balloon stuff.
[17:57] <eroomde> cool
[17:57] <eroomde> how do you do rocket telemetry at the moment?
[17:59] <nigelvh> Mostly what the deal is, is that we have telemetry systems, and we swap out radio modules depending on power/frequency/band/phase of the moon, and it ends up being a hassle to adjust the bias/amplitude/whatnot resistors every time we change a stupid module. In theory the radio bits KT5TK selected are somewhat frequency agile, so I'm trying to make a three band setup with as few component changes as possible.
[18:00] <nigelvh> Goal is 144/434/915 with maybe only changing the coil on the 7012.
[18:00] <nigelvh> So I've been working on a 3-band-pass filter
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[18:07] <eroomde> cool
[18:07] <eroomde> with the current system do you get in-flight telemetry?
[18:07] <eroomde> i'm especially interested in during the burn
[18:12] <nigelvh> Yeah, it's constant.
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[18:12] <nigelvh> As soon as liftoff is detected it's dumping data
[18:13] <nigelvh> Generally we run 600 baud rtty on the rockets, since they're relatively close range.
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[18:14] <nigelvh> We dump data from liftoff, and buffer that data till apogee, where the whole dataset gets retransmitted over and over till we shut the system off.
[18:14] <eroomde> so you can keep a loack on the rtty despite doppler?
[18:15] <nigelvh> Yeah. To be frank I'm not sure I've noticed much issue with doppler.
[18:15] <nigelvh> I think you'd have to go a lot faster.
[18:15] <eroomde> also what is your antenna config?
[18:15] <eroomde> sorry for 20 questions, am interested
[18:15] <eroomde> hmm we've suffered from doppler
[18:15] <nigelvh> No problem
[18:16] <eroomde> our thing was doing mach 2 straight up
[18:16] <nigelvh> That's about what our fastest ones do.
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[18:16] <eroomde> unless it was also acceleration changing the resonance of the xtal
[18:16] <nigelvh> Possible
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[18:16] <nigelvh> Anyway, antenna on the rocket is just a simple coaxial dipole
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[18:17] <nigelvh> ground antenna is a big 20 foot or so 434Mhz yagi
[18:17] <Randomskk> eroomde: you can calculate the expected dopple
[18:17] <Randomskk> +r
[18:17] <Randomskk> it works out as some kHz iirc
[18:17] <nigelvh> though we've also used 5 element handheld yagis and it works fine.
[18:17] <Randomskk> which would screw up dl-fldigi
[18:17] <eroomde> yes indeed, as we saw
[18:17] <Randomskk> yea
[18:18] <eroomde> nigelvh: do your rockets ever spin, causing fading issues?
[18:18] <Randomskk> surprised nigelvh doesn't have that issue at the same speeds
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[18:19] <nigelvh> Maybe we do have some, but it's never been an issue with being able to get telem.
[18:19] <Randomskk> what rx radios / rtty shift?
[18:20] <nigelvh> Yes, our rockets spin sometimes, but we tend to use pretty well omnidirectional antennas and fiberglas sections for the antennas, so fading isn't generally bad.
[18:20] <nigelvh> We tend to use the Yaesu VX500 handheld communications recievers. But those have been discontinued, so we may need to find something else.
[18:21] <nigelvh> For the RTTY shift I think we're at 600Hz
[18:21] <Randomskk> huh. okay.
[18:24] <nigelvh> We went to 600baud to try and get accelleration data in nigh real time, so if the rocket broke up we'd still have data on it.
[18:28] <RocketBoy> Of sort of HAB interest - if peeps are wondering why I'm out of a few sizes of balloons - if you watch a certain opening ceremony tomorrow evening then you will see where they all went.
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[18:31] <fsphil> is there to be some kind of ceremony? I'm sure I'd have heard of it
[18:32] <RocketBoy> so they say
[18:32] <RocketBoy> its a bit low key
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[18:33] <nosebleedkt_> hi all
[18:34] <fsphil> evenin nosebleedkt_!
[18:34] <nosebleedkt_> need to fix the leading zero bug now
[18:36] <fsphil> shouldn't be to bad if you're using printf
[18:36] <nigelvh> Damn those zeros, hanging out in front, being worthless.
[18:37] <fsphil> or not hanging out in this case
[18:37] <fsphil> they where being shy
[18:37] <nigelvh> There are always too many or too few with zeros.'
[18:38] <nigelvh> Jerks.
[18:38] <RocketBoy> bbl
[18:39] <daveake> they're so hollow
[18:39] <fsphil> they've no values at all
[18:40] <nigelvh> They're worthless as leaders. All they're good for is following.
[18:40] <fsphil> lol
[18:44] <nosebleedkt_> http://pastebin.com/w8QwVwMB
[18:45] <nosebleedkt_> can you tell me what iam doing wrong in the code?
[18:47] <nigelvh> Magic
[18:47] <nigelvh> Or not enough of it.
[18:48] <mattbrejza> whats wrong with sending nmea DDD.MMmmm?
[18:49] <nosebleedkt_> fsphil: you know it help me
[18:50] <fsphil> try %04li
[18:51] <fsphil> though that should work as is
[18:52] <nosebleedkt_> no does not work
[18:55] <fsphil> it's definitey reflashing ok? try changing silly, like the decimal point to an !
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[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:57] <fsphil> rednaL_ranuL olleh
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:59] <daveake> DX
[19:00] <Upu> sadly I'm going to miss the opening ceremony
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> DX? long range radio?
[19:04] <nosebleedkt_> fsphil: now i get 23!2440
[19:06] <daveake> wossup?
[19:06] <fsphil> that's four digits
[19:07] <fsphil> you'll need to have something less than 1000 to test it
[19:07] <fsphil> but at least we know it's flashing ok
[19:07] <fsphil> try setting lat_minutes = 0
[19:07] <G0DJA> Happily I'm going to try to avoid the Oylimpics (as one athletes tattoo reportedly had it spelt) by sticking my fingers in my ears and going "Lalalala it's not happening, go away lalal la"
[19:08] <fsphil> I've invented a new sport of olympic evasion
[19:08] <Upu> G0DJA you paid for it you might as well watch it
[19:08] <G0DJA> Ooo, I'd enter for that fsphil
[19:08] <Upu> see who can spot the Hwoyee 1600's
[19:08] <fsphil> hah
[19:09] <fsphil> are they carrying anything I wonder
[19:09] <fsphil> seems awfully big if it's just a balloon release
[19:09] <jonsowman> one bit of the A24 has been taken from 70mph to 50, has added an entire 30 seconds to my commute >:(
[19:09] <jonsowman> due to the olympics, i should add
[19:09] <fsphil> but that's 30 seconds you could be sleeeeeping
[19:10] <jonsowman> i know
[19:10] <jonsowman> it's shocking
[19:10] <mattbrejza> well at least you dont have to work this sat/sun...
[19:11] <jonsowman> just as well really
[19:11] <jonsowman> that bit of the A24 will be closed
[19:11] <nosebleedkt_> fsphil: i did %05i
[19:12] <nosebleedkt_> and worked
[19:13] <fsphil> I'm not sure it did .. if you pad a number to four digits, and the number is four digits already, you don't get any padding
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[19:14] <fsphil> so if your coordinate should have four digits after the point, adding a fifth will push everything out of place
[19:14] <nosebleedkt_> yes
[19:14] <nosebleedkt_> that what it did
[19:14] <fsphil> as long as your value should have five digits, that's fine
[19:14] <fsphil> but you need to test that other wise you might find it only goes from 0.0 to 0.09999
[19:16] <fsphil> ah so you expected five, just saw the comment
[19:17] <fsphil> fixed point math is weird :)
[19:19] <costyn> yes... found the perfect field for launching about 10 mins drive from home
[19:20] <costyn> can even drive my car onto it so we don't have to drag the He bottle around
[19:21] <fsphil> sweet
[19:22] <fsphil> nice to have a launch site nearby
[19:22] <costyn> yea
[19:22] <costyn> now to hope for the right winds on launch day (19th of august)
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[19:31] <nosebleedkt_> I dont understand it
[19:31] <Randomskk> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1569698176/1000-student-projects-to-the-edge-of-space
[19:32] <fsphil> nosebleedkt_: how many digits does nmea have?
[19:32] <nosebleedkt_> look
[19:33] <nosebleedkt_> I have char lat_degrees_str[3] = {'2','3',0};
[19:33] <nosebleedkt_> and char lat_minutes_str[8] = {'0','1','4','6','4','0','0',0};
[19:33] <nosebleedkt_> byte lat_degrees = atoi(lat_degrees_str); // lat_degrees=23
[19:33] <nosebleedkt_> long int lat_minutes = atol(lat_minutes_str) / 60; // lat_minutes=2440
[19:33] <fsphil> you know you can write those as: char lat_degrees_str[] = "23";
[19:34] <jonsowman> use pastie.org please
[19:34] <nosebleedkt_> yes jonsowman
[19:34] <jonsowman> thanks :)
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi nosebleedkt_
[19:34] <nosebleedkt_> http://pastebin.com/w8QwVwMB
[19:34] <nosebleedkt_> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:35] <nosebleedkt_> http://pastebin.com/BbuK2Cnz
[19:38] <costyn> so I found this old military surplus meteo balloon parachute, made from tyvek, 80cm across: http://imgur.com/a/PrsuH#5 any reasons I shouldn't use it?
[19:38] <jonsowman> don't see why not
[19:38] <jonsowman> check it's not ripped or damaged
[19:38] <jonsowman> looks like a nice chute :)
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[19:39] <costyn> jonsowman: it's brand new, so no damage
[19:39] <jonsowman> oh cool
[19:39] <jonsowman> when you said "old"
[19:39] <jonsowman> i assumed "second hand"
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> costyn, fsphil daveake today I used a different approach first, I reactivated a piece of code that was written late last year to read sensors and broadcast that over the NTX2, I modified it to send that string over serial also and that worked
[19:39] <costyn> it's old in that the manual where I found it mentioned was from 1978
[19:39] <jonsowman> got it
[19:39] <jonsowman> :)
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/1112462/
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[19:40] <costyn> jonsowman: any thoughts on using it inline or letting it hang off the side
[19:40] <jonsowman> inline is usually preferred
[19:41] <costyn> ok, well it's designed to be used inline so I guess I'll do that
[19:41] <jonsowman> the tension means the chute is in the right orientation at burst, and it helps to stop the shroud lines tangling
[19:41] <costyn> ok cool
[19:41] <costyn> thanks
[19:41] <jonsowman> it also keeps it collapsed before launch, so that any wind doesn't pull the cord around
[19:42] <costyn> makes sense
[19:47] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: did you wnt us to look at a specific bit of code?
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> just wanted to show it to you
[19:47] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: ok so this is your latest 'working' code :)
[19:48] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: that datastring doesn't look habhub compatible :)
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah it is just an experiment as of yet
[19:48] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: ok :)
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[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> I think the callsign and the counter are OK already?
[19:49] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: yes
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[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> and it sends out that it has started
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> as you can see with STARTSTRING
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[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah costyn yea
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> what I don't know is
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> what does the fmtDouble function do?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> can you explain it to me meabe?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> maybe
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[20:01] <chrisstubbs> Evening guys, does anyone use TinyGPS on an adruino payload?
[20:04] <Upu> I believe it has been used
[20:04] <Upu> for parsing the NMEA
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[20:04] <Upu> however do check it doesn't do anything silly
[20:04] <Upu> padding etc
[20:04] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[20:05] <Upu> hey Lunar
[20:05] <Upu> evening
[20:05] <Upu> broken your code down yet ?
[20:05] <chrisstubbs> Ah i see, this looks like exactly what i was just about to ask :P thanks
[20:05] <Laurenceb__> http://www.flickr.com/photos/feurig/7588505474/in/photostream
[20:05] <Laurenceb__> oh dear
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> not yet, I reactivated another code from last year that read out sensors and then sent that across the NTX2
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, paste.ubuntu.com/1112462/
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> paste.ubuntu.com/1112462/
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> strange
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> why doesn't it make a link
[20:06] <Upu> its ok
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1112462/
[20:07] <Upu> OERNEN ?
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, in honour of Salomon August Andree
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._A._Andr%C3%A9e%27s_Arctic_Balloon_Expedition_of_1897
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[20:08] <Upu> ok
[20:08] <Upu> btw
[20:08] <Upu> void callback()
[20:09] <Upu> that procedure isn't used
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> I also wondered about that
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> I think it can be deleted
[20:09] <Upu> It can its just a legacy from whatever Rob was going to use it for
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[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, and that code works OK
[20:21] <Upu> ok
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> and the Serial.print thing too
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> and that is good as it shows that the openlog should work too
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[20:26] <nosebleedkt_> I hate printf
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> why exactly?
[20:29] <nosebleedkt_> because i hate it
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> and did you already analyze the data on the SD card?
[20:30] <nosebleedkt_> I produced only the flight path in 3D in google earth
[20:30] <nosebleedkt_> still didnt manipulated the sensor data
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:48] <nosebleedkt_> ok did it my noob way
[20:48] <nosebleedkt_> http://pastebin.com/PwDH6txz
[20:48] <nosebleedkt_> but works !
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[21:00] <gonzo_> printf is a huge piece of code and there are neater ways to do the job
[21:01] <gonzo_> (feel proud that I've never used it)
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> oh no
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> how I am supposed to do my string without sprintf?
[21:02] <gonzo_> strings? Ah yes arrays of unsigned chars
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, still here?
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[21:44] <chrisstubbs> How can i convert my time from TinyGPS (bytes for hours, mins and secs) to a string in arduino?
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[22:21] <fsphil> it's an interesting exercise writing your own integer to string function
[22:21] <fsphil> but unless you're doing floating point stuff or really tight on space, printf is probably fine
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[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> hey fsphil
[22:24] <fsphil> evening Lunar_Lander
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, https://github.com/WinzenFlyer
[22:25] <fsphil> ah you've joined the order of the git
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> I thought at first it is like Pastebin
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> but it is much more sophisticated
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[22:36] <fsphil> very much so
[22:36] <fsphil> I use it for any projects now, even small ones
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> how do you like the Wiki I made?
[22:38] <fsphil> ah not looked, only scanned the code
[22:38] <fsphil> that's a big file. you should consider spreading it out a bit
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> like in several files?
[22:38] <fsphil> yea
[22:38] <chrisstubbs> 519 lines, nice :P im on 103 and my code is nowhere near working/optimised
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, the GPS will definately get another file
[22:39] <chrisstubbs> Just checking out your arduino code Lunar_Lander
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> and I already tried out multiple files
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, I think I can put every sensor into its own file
[22:39] <chrisstubbs> Long time no speak lunar, last time i was on here you were chatting to Domlin about back to the future
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
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[22:44] <chrisstubbs> Speak of the devil domlin
[22:44] <domlin> hola
[22:45] <domlin> how is all?
[22:46] <fsphil> squishy
[22:46] <domlin> that's how it's meant to be
[22:46] <fsphil> ah
[22:46] <fsphil> I had wondered
[22:47] <chrisstubbs> Good progress today dom on IGSNE
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:47] <domlin> i hear chrisstubbs has been covering himself and everything he owns in arduino related 433 mhz gps data
[22:47] <domlin> or is it 434?
[22:47] <chrisstubbs> Got the SDR, GPS, 434mhz transmitter working
[22:47] <chrisstubbs> 434
[22:47] <chrisstubbs> 434.650
[22:47] <domlin> well today I ruined both of my front wheel bearings.
[22:50] <domlin> anything Back To The Future happening recently?
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> not really
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> DeLorean is still an awesome car
[22:52] <domlin> it is
[22:55] <chrisstubbs> domlin I think we need to go down to see a launch next week if there are any on?
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> this is awesome http://cinemassacre.com/2012/01/25/board-james-doggie-doo/
[22:55] <domlin> sounds good to me
[22:55] <domlin> if i have to drive the wheels might come off
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, done with the code?
[23:00] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander ive called it a night, my eyes hurt haha! Got it set up for transmitting GPS long, lat and time so far :)
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> and the code you read from me?
[23:02] <chrisstubbs> Nope i have been using TinyGPS, thought i would have a quick scan through yours though.
[23:03] <chrisstubbs> If we decide to put any sensors up i might well have another read through, How do you track your payload?
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[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> via radio
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> or how do you mean?
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> the GPS isn't implemented yet
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[23:11] <chrisstubbs> Yes through Radio, is that how you plan to track?
[23:11] <chrisstubbs> We will be using GPS over radio but also sending up a GSM celular tracker
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[23:11] <chrisstubbs> when i say "we" it is Domlin and I
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah we have the NTX2
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> and it sends down the GPS position
[23:13] <chrisstubbs> Seems to be the most popular way, did you say oyou were from Germany?
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:15] <chrisstubbs> What are the regulations for your transmitter? 434mhz at 10mw?
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[23:17] <fsphil> argos use flash to display simple images. argos fails
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah chrisstubbs
[23:19] <chrisstubbs> Ah, oh well guys im of now! Night!
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 27 2012