highaltitude.log.20120725

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[02:32] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pressure"
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[06:41] <griffonbot> Received email: mike@mmatthes.com "[UKHAS] Meassured Pressure on Balloon"
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[07:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pressure"
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[08:19] <nosebleedkt> PAYLOAD HAS BEEN RECOVERED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[08:20] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/376762_496328763714506_522707382_n.jpg
[08:20] <jcoxon> hooray
[08:20] <jcoxon> did you recover it or someone else?
[08:20] <fsphil> wow, nice one nosebleedkt
[08:20] <nosebleedkt> me with my friend
[08:20] <jcoxon> good landing site
[08:20] <nosebleedkt> its was in another place
[08:21] <jcoxon> oh
[08:21] <fsphil> where was it?
[08:21] <fsphil> in a tree?
[08:21] <nosebleedkt> coordinates were wrong. my pal found the fail in the sequence and we recovered the normal data
[08:21] <nosebleedkt> we spot it in 5 min
[08:21] <fsphil> far from where you where before?
[08:21] <nosebleedkt> landing place 20km from my home
[08:22] <fsphil> code error?
[08:22] <nosebleedkt> yes
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[08:22] <fsphil> happens to the best of us :)
[08:22] <nosebleedkt> function atol() converts 012345 to 12345
[08:22] <fsphil> now importantly, did everything work? :)
[08:22] <nosebleedkt> that zero did the job
[08:23] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/558339_496328887047827_1657438332_n.jpg
[08:23] <jcoxon> that was why the predictions were all wrong perhaps?
[08:23] <nosebleedkt> ye
[08:23] <nosebleedkt> s
[08:23] <nosebleedkt> all wanted a zero at the begin
[08:23] <nosebleedkt> predictor and actual path is identical
[08:24] <nosebleedkt> we are in a cafe, still didnt open it
[08:25] <fsphil> the leading zero bug has hit a few people here
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[08:27] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[08:28] <gonzo_> in my tracker I cheated, just parse the NMEA string for the comma delimiters then copy the appt fields into the telem as strings. So any changes in the GPS strings should just get passed through.
[08:29] <fsphil> but congratulations anyway :)
[08:29] <gonzo_> have been stung before with doing the calcs in the embedded device
[08:29] <fsphil> yea, I had the very same bug but thankfully caught it before I launched
[08:34] <nosebleedkt> THANKS IM HAPPY
[08:34] <fsphil> to quote a wise sage, xD
[08:35] <nosebleedkt> :)
[08:36] <nosebleedkt> all thanks to my friend who discovered the problem in the coords sequence !!!!
[08:36] <costyn> nosebleedkt: congrrats!!!
[08:39] <costyn> nosebleedkt: so what coordinates was it located at ? And didn't you have a back up GPS/GSM device?
[08:40] <LazyLeopard> nosebleedkt: recovered your payload?
[08:41] Action: jcoxon is testing PicoAtlas7
[08:42] <Darkside> add in some uplink stuff
[08:42] <Darkside> just so we can do some teting
[08:42] <Darkside> testing
[08:42] <jcoxon> not this flight
[08:42] <WillDuckworth> weight jcoxon?
[08:42] <nosebleedkt> max alt 38884
[08:43] <nosebleedkt> microsd opened :)
[08:43] <jcoxon> WillDuckworth, currently 30g
[08:43] <jcoxon> but no radio antenna
[08:43] <WillDuckworth> 2 AAAs?
[08:43] <jcoxon> 2AAAs and 1x 3.6v 100mA solar panel
[08:44] <WillDuckworth> those flexible ones yeah?
[08:44] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:44] <WillDuckworth> really lightweight - ideal
[08:44] <costyn> what dimensions does it have
[08:44] <costyn> ?
[08:46] <jcoxon> http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/prod/264/powerfilm-mpt36150-100ma-36v-mini-solar-panel
[08:46] <costyn> 7x15cm and 3.1grams... impressive
[08:47] <UpuWork> impressive nosebleedkt :)
[08:48] <UpuWork> can put yourself on the UKHAS records with that
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[08:51] <daveake> nosebleedkt Well done!
[08:52] <daveake> I did the leading zero thing, so you're in good company :p
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[08:53] <nosebleedkt> :)
[08:55] <craag> Where does this leading zero cause problems? (loading up github to check my code..)
[08:56] <jcoxon> usually when a position is 52.012345
[08:56] <jcoxon> it'll put it as 52.12345
[08:58] <fsphil> it's caused when you printf %i.%i instead of %i.%05i for example
[08:58] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/557015_496337550380294_436971800_n.jpg
[08:58] <nosebleedkt> vertical cam
[08:58] <costyn> nosebleedkt: what were the actual coordinates?
[08:58] <craag> Ah ok, yeah I should be ok on that then.
[08:59] <Darkside> vertical?
[08:59] <Darkside> pointing down
[08:59] <fsphil> still vertical :)
[08:59] <Darkside> :P
[08:59] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/603555_496337570380292_686028230_n.jpg
[09:00] <fsphil> nice
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[09:04] <LazyLeopard> nosebleedkt: Good photos. Looks like very dry country!
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[09:05] <nosebleedkt> lol
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[09:08] <number10> congratulations nosebleedkt on getting you payload back
[09:08] <number10> +r
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[09:14] <LazyLeopard> nosebleedkt: How far was it between its actual landing place and the position you first thought it had landed?
[09:17] <nosebleedkt> 20km
[09:17] <number10> nosebleedkt: stan keri yia tous agious;
[09:17] <nosebleedkt> lola
[09:17] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/600067_496342147046501_1237822352_n.jpg
[09:17] <nosebleedkt> highest altitude
[09:17] <nosebleedkt> 38.834
[09:18] <LazyLeopard> Whoa! That's quite a difference. All down to a leading zero missing. Have you got a corrected track yet?
[09:19] <nosebleedkt> yes
[09:19] <nosebleedkt> we reproduced the actual path
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[09:24] <kokey> that's it
[09:24] <kokey> screw launching in the UK
[09:25] <kokey> where you just get clouds
[09:25] <UpuWork> I like that picture
[09:26] <costyn> so what's that hanging below?
[09:26] <LazyLeopard> The antenna, at a guess. ;)
[09:26] Action: kokey regrets not getting into it while living in gibraltar
[09:26] <kokey> my fear was that it would have landed in the ocean
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[09:27] <kokey> that said, the other option was in the mountains nearby and those are a mission to scale
[09:27] <fsphil> one of the advantages of living in a mostly flat land
[09:28] <kokey> must be pretty easy around north or east germany
[09:30] <costyn> kokey: and Netherlands :)
[09:30] <costyn> kokey: although East Germany is only grain fields and windmills, lots and lots and lots of windmills
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[09:33] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[09:34] <kokey> yesterday would have been a pretty darn good day to launch in the UK
[09:35] <fsphil> predictions are a bit naff though
[09:35] <fsphil> hullo LL
[09:36] <kokey> for a camera payload that is
[09:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[09:44] <WillDuckworth> launched yet LL?
[09:50] <Lunar_Lander> no, but preparing
[09:51] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I tried to make a code for GPS and all sensors to serial.print to the PC but that code failed after some time and we are looking at why it does that
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[09:54] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: is your gps using the same hardware serial port as your connection to the PC?
[09:54] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: oh wait, it worked first then failed?
[09:55] <Lunar_Lander> no, GPS runs on Serial1 and the connection to the PC on Serial
[09:55] <Lunar_Lander> yes, let me explain
[09:55] <Lunar_Lander> it printed out all the GPS and sensor data
[09:55] <Lunar_Lander> and after a few cycles the BMP085 showed impossible data and the DS18B20 just showed "-1000" which in the code means "error"
[10:01] <Lunar_Lander> costyn, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1109029/
[10:01] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: I'm using the same sensors
[10:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[10:01] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: but I don't think I have my code online anwhere
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[10:02] <daveake> Lunar_Lamder How many DS18B20's do you have connected?
[10:03] <daveake> On the assumption the answer is "1", why do you keep searching for them?
[10:04] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: I explicitly specified my 2 temp probes with their addresses, when I tested with searching for them it was unreliable, and number of sensors is not likely to change
[10:04] <daveake> In mine I search once at startup, then store the addresses in an array
[10:05] <jcoxon> costyn, i agree with that
[10:05] <fsphil> snap
[10:05] <jcoxon> also sometimes they reply out of order
[10:05] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, yeah I only got one
[10:05] <fsphil> I have swift search, then print over rtty the addresses
[10:05] <Lunar_Lander> and well I just took the code example
[10:05] <daveake> It's best to question not just copy :)
[10:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[10:06] <daveake> Otherwise you end up copying stuff that doesn't necessarily work
[10:06] <Lunar_Lander> ture
[10:06] <Lunar_Lander> *true
[10:06] <fsphil> I love how the 1-wire system does the address search
[10:06] <fsphil> it's really smart
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[10:06] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: https://github.com/jamescoxon/Atlas-Flight-Computer/blob/master/Atlas3/Atlas3_3.pde <-- jcoxon's code, has example with static addresses
[10:06] <daveake> It is
[10:07] <Lunar_Lander> thanks costyn
[10:07] <daveake> That and the CAN bus priority scheme - two things you see and think "wish I'd thought of that"
[10:07] <fsphil> ooh dunno that one, will have to read up later
[10:07] <daveake> It's a wired-or thing, with each sender reading the bus back
[10:08] <Lunar_Lander> James used TinyGPS on Atlas 3
[10:08] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: the onewire library has some sketch examples on how to get the addresses of your onewire devices
[10:08] <Lunar_Lander> did he have the ublox 6 already then?
[10:08] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[10:09] <daveake> Suppose 2 devices start sending at the same time. Each starts with it's priority. Highest priority would be all zeroes. As soon as there's an argument (one wants to send 1 the other 0) the 0 wins (because of the wire-or thing). This is sensed by the one that loses, who then drops out and tries again later
[10:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah he has 5
[10:09] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: TinyGPS works with many gps'es... atthe top it says he used a GPSbee Ublox5
[10:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[10:09] <Lunar_Lander> just saw it
[10:09] <daveake> I'm probably wroing which way up it is, but that's the idea
[10:09] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, ah ok
[10:09] <fsphil> that's really smart
[10:09] <daveake> Very
[10:10] <fsphil> so the higher address is the only one that gets sent
[10:10] <daveake> Smart, simple. A winning combination :)
[10:10] <Lunar_Lander> can that be the explaination that these two fail while the analog stuff continues to work?
[10:10] <daveake> Well I forget which way it's "or"'s, and it's a priority number rather than an address
[10:10] <costyn> daveake: I'm not sure I undertand the wire-or bit tho
[10:10] <daveake> or-d
[10:11] <daveake> Imagine an output from a processor through a diode to a bus line
[10:11] <costyn> errr... :)
[10:11] <fsphil> lol
[10:11] <daveake> You can pull in one direction only
[10:11] <fsphil> if any one devices is pulling the bus down
[10:11] <fsphil> it doesn't matter how many others are up or down, the bus is down
[10:12] <daveake> yup
[10:12] <daveake> Well it's a balanced line so not sure which way up is up :)
[10:12] <fsphil> it's only ever high if no device is putting out a zero
[10:12] <fsphil> it's a sort of negative or
[10:12] <fsphil> aah good point
[10:12] <costyn> have a link to any article with pics?
[10:12] <fsphil> I'm thinking of 1-wire again
[10:12] <daveake> Best to :)
[10:13] <daveake> Principle is the same
[10:13] <costyn> daveake: are yuou describing canbus or 1wire?
[10:13] <daveake> can
[10:13] <fsphil> I'm the one thinking 1-wire
[10:14] <daveake> Think 1 wire. It's the or-ing together and the priority idea I'm talking about
[10:15] <Lunar_Lander> can that be the explaination that these two fail while the analog stuff continues to work?
[10:16] <daveake> No, we're talking about the neat way the CAN bus works with multiple devices trying to talk at the same time; you have 2 busses one at time
[10:16] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: could be, I would just go with using static addresses
[10:16] <daveake> Do the static address thing, see how that helps
[10:16] <daveake> What you're doing now (searching every time) is needlessly omplicated, and it's something people have had trouble with before
[10:17] <costyn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus#Data_transmission <-- further reading :)
[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[10:19] <fsphil> also keep your 1-wire bus short
[10:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[10:27] <zyp> CAN is wired AND, which is equivalent to OR with inverted inputs and outputs
[10:27] <zyp> that's why 0 is dominant and not 1
[10:29] <zyp> CAN bus level is determined as voltage difference between CANL and CANH, which is ~0V when signalling a 1, and some positive value when signalling a 0
[10:29] <daveake> So I was right when I said I could never remember :p
[10:29] <zyp> CAN transceivers pulls CANL and CANH apart when signalling a 0, otherwise they are pulled together by 60ohm termination on the bus
[10:29] <zyp> so if any one transceiver is signalling a 0, bus state will be 0
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> I got one more question
[10:30] <daveake> I bet that's not true ...
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> I first need to find out the sensor address with that one code example that costyn mentioned and then I can hardcode it into the program?
[10:31] <daveake> yes
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[10:31] <daveake> Not what I do, but it's simpler
[10:31] <zyp> why not just have the program find the sensor address at startup?
[10:31] <Lunar_Lander> cutting that from the example?
[10:32] <daveake> zyp I suggested that earlier. It's exactly what I do. I've not had trouble with it but others have suggested they have
[10:33] <zyp> it shouldn't give any reliability problems
[10:33] <daveake> I know
[10:34] <zyp> if you can't read the sensor address reliably, how can you expect to read the sensor value reliably? :p
[10:34] <daveake> Lunr_Lander, how are you powering the DS18B20?
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[10:41] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/OneWire/ <-- example which prints out the address of devices on the bus
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[10:42] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[10:42] <daveake> Lunar_Lander how are you powering the DS18B20? Parasitic?
[10:42] <daveake> Or from the 3V3 line?
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[10:43] <nosebleedkt_> ok, got 10MP pictures
[10:43] <nosebleedkt_> manipulating....
[10:43] <fsphil> excellent
[10:43] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, well directly
[10:43] <Lunar_Lander> I got three cables running to it
[10:43] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt_, cool!
[10:44] <nosebleedkt_> i see olumpus top
[10:44] <nosebleedkt_> :)
[10:44] <LazyLeopard> Cool! Where? ;)
[10:48] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt_, the onboard camera was 0.3 megapixels?
[10:48] <Lunar_Lander> the LinkSprite one
[10:48] <nosebleedkt_> yes
[10:48] <nosebleedkt_> and one 10MP canono
[10:48] <nosebleedkt_> canon
[10:51] <craag> daveake: Quick question if I may, how did you switch between GPS and NTX2 on the Pi UART, other than changing the baud rate?
[10:52] <daveake> Essentially, that's it
[10:52] <daveake> I found it more reliable to close and open the port too
[10:52] <craag> So GPS ignores the 300 baud, and NTX2 bandwidth-limits the 4800/9600?
[10:53] <daveake> No, I used a Lassen which doesn't need talking to
[10:53] <craag> Ah, ok. Thanks.
[10:53] <daveake> Next time it'll be a uBlox and yes just forget about the crap going to the NTX :)
[10:54] <Randomskk> rpi only has one uart?
[10:55] <craag> Yep.
[10:55] <daveake> No, but you can only map one at a time to the GPIO connector
[10:55] <craag> Oh...
[10:55] <Randomskk> ...
[10:55] Action: craag digs out the schematics..
[10:55] <Randomskk> that's... wow.
[10:55] <Randomskk> kind of shit?
[10:55] <Randomskk> how many uarts does it have then?
[10:55] <daveake> yup
[10:56] <daveake> I got all excited when I saw the other ports (2 I think)
[10:56] <Randomskk> this does nothing to dispel my belief that the rpi is overhyped and not as well engineered for purpose as it could have been
[10:56] <daveake> http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
[10:57] <fsphil> hehe, both uarts are on the same pins
[10:57] <daveake> Classic, isn't it?
[10:58] <fsphil> you might be able to split them
[10:58] <fsphil> have rx being on uart0
[10:58] <fsphil> tx being on uart1
[10:58] <fsphil> at least save you from baud rate switching
[10:59] <fsphil> not sure how to change the ALT thing
[10:59] <daveake> I couldn't find out how
[11:00] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: you dont say
[11:00] <daveake> But actually, once I closed and re-opened the port each time, it worked just fine
[11:01] <kokey> what temperature does a pico/floater usually experience?
[11:01] <fsphil> those are quite different
[11:02] <fsphil> I don't think the picos get much below zero, if even that
[11:02] <fsphil> but it depends on the time of year, time of day, altitude, etc... :)
[11:02] <Randomskk> altitude especially :P
[11:05] <craag> There's a bunch of other pins on the BCM that you can map the UARTS to, but they are all completely unconnected, so most likely just inaccessible BGA pads..
[11:05] <kokey> ok so Li batteries are a possibility for a pico
[11:06] <daveake> craag yeah, I suspect that would be the case. Once I got the baud rate thing working it became less of an issue
[11:06] <daveake> suspected
[11:07] <craag> oh oh oh one of the mappable TX pins for UART1 is one of the PWM audio outputs!
[11:07] <Randomskk> lol
[11:07] <Randomskk> helpful
[11:07] <craag> well, it means theres a pcb track to it at least.
[11:07] <Laurenceb> its about as good as atmega168 then
[11:08] <daveake> :)
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[11:08] <Randomskk> I imagine it's also filtered or at least goes through some other components before hitting the audio out connector
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[11:08] <Laurenceb> giant power hungry 168 running linux
[11:08] <Randomskk> if you're having to solder wires to pcb tracks to get a second serial port something is wrong
[11:08] <Randomskk> :P
[11:09] <daveake> yup
[11:09] <nosebleedkt_> omg so much water !!!!
[11:09] <Laurenceb> the sea is like that
[11:09] <craag> It already has wires soldered to the side of SMD resistors.. this is just a little step further..
[11:09] <kokey> nosebleedkt_: you must have gotten some nice reflections too
[11:09] <Randomskk> D:
[11:09] <nosebleedkt_> yeah
[11:10] <Laurenceb> nosebleedkt_: got your platload back?
[11:10] <Laurenceb> *payload
[11:10] <daveake> Throughout the project I thought "now if I added an AVR I could get extra serial ports / do SPI easier / read a DS18B20 / do rtty without messing around / etc.", but then you might as well just fly an AVR :)
[11:10] <Randomskk> yes indeed
[11:10] <Randomskk> you really might as well
[11:10] <Randomskk> :P
[11:10] <Laurenceb> or stm32
[11:10] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: hopefully I'll get some time this holiday to work on wombat
[11:10] <daveake> The idea was to get the Pi to do it without external help
[11:10] <Randomskk> I wanna get the fpu working and then connect up the camera
[11:10] <Randomskk> tbh the stm32 has usb host and could probably do a usb webcam
[11:11] <Laurenceb> its not exactly had
[11:11] <Randomskk> well yea
[11:11] <Laurenceb> install codesourcery... done
[11:11] <daveake> The USB webcam was a big plus
[11:11] <Randomskk> screw that
[11:11] <daveake> Actually the only plus
[11:11] <nosebleedkt_> lol, caught some islands
[11:11] <Randomskk> I'll get it working with the gnu toolchain no problem
[11:11] <Randomskk> mostly I need to do an r2 of the pcb
[11:11] <Laurenceb> or that yes
[11:14] <nosebleedkt_> let me upload a sample
[11:15] <nosebleedkt_> http://imagebin.org/222059
[11:16] <craag> nosebleedkt_: That looks awesome.
[11:16] <daveake> fake. where are the clouds? :p
[11:16] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[11:19] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: damn dude... sweet pic!
[11:19] <costyn> incredible
[11:19] <nosebleedkt_> i got sweeter
[11:19] <nosebleedkt_> :)
[11:24] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] Scout Sunday"
[11:24] <nosebleedkt_> http://imagebin.org/222061
[11:24] <daveake> That's really pretty
[11:26] <costyn> very
[11:26] <nosebleedkt_> thank you thank you ;D
[11:27] <daveake> Here in the UK we just collect photos of cloud formations
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[11:28] <daveake> Anyone (in the UK) got a better price than £90 for a helium T cylinder?
[11:29] <WillDuckworth> nope - plus prices going up
[11:29] <daveake> Yeah, I saw
[11:29] <daveake> I'd use H2 but this one is going to have some flammable scouts around it
[11:29] <WillDuckworth> is h2 cheaper?
[11:29] <daveake> I'll need them later to collect the payload from a tree or lake :D
[11:30] <daveake> 1/3rd
[11:30] <daveake> H2 7.1m^3 £65
[11:30] <WillDuckworth> quite a saving on He
[11:30] <daveake> He 3.6 m^3 £90
[11:30] <daveake> And that's without a BOC discount on the H2
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[11:37] <gonzo_> you have an H2 reg?
[11:38] <daveake> yup
[11:39] <gonzo_> is there anythuing special about the regs?
[11:39] <nosebleedkt_> http://imagebin.org/222062
[11:39] <nosebleedkt_> high altitude
[11:40] <daveake> Well, BOC say so - designed for the pressure etc
[11:40] <nosebleedkt_> http://imagebin.org/222063 , high altitude
[11:40] <nosebleedkt_> just after burst
[11:41] <gonzo_> what's the usual fill pressure then dave?
[11:42] <daveake> We have a 10 bar one and that works well
[11:42] <daveake> Of course the pressure when you're feeding into a balloon is pretty low
[11:43] <costyn> daveake: and you need less H2 than He for the same neck-lift right?
[11:43] <daveake> yep
[11:43] <daveake> The burst predictor lets you choose the gas
[11:43] <gonzo_> I have plenty of regs. Just need to find the bottle coupling
[11:43] <gonzo_> I expect the H2 is pure
[11:43] <daveake> :)
[11:43] <daveake> Yeah - 99.several 9's
[11:44] <Laurenceb> from my inbox
[11:44] <Laurenceb> Please be advised that due to a worldwide shortage of Liquid Helium the University’s supply will be affected within the next two weeks. You will also see a 10% - 15% rise in costs which may continue to rise over the next two years until Qatar 2 comes on line in 2014.
[11:44] <daveake> The regulator (well our own) seems to need some back pressure. Steve's fill hose is longer than mine, with a valve in the middle, and that works better than mine
[11:44] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: very nice pics :) make a gallery somewhere plz with thumbnails :)
[11:45] <daveake> Like I said, the He situation is only going to get worse
[11:46] <nosebleedkt_> costyn: yeah
[11:47] <gonzo_> am I correct in thinking that 'balloon gas' is an air/He mix??
[11:47] <gonzo_> but the BalloonHelium.co.uk just sell std boc He ?
[11:48] <daveake> The He I've used, from BOC and AP, has been 99.something %. Not the really pure stuff, but not enough air/whatever to worry about
[11:49] <gonzo_> anyone know what % the balloonhelium.co.uk is?
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[11:49] <Laurenceb> eroomde: ping
[11:50] <LazyLeopard> nosebleedkt_: Good pictures. ;)
[11:50] <nosebleedkt_> ;)
[11:52] <nosebleedkt_> canon battery off when about to land :)
[11:52] <number10> nice to see demetrius helped you get it back nosebleedkt_
[11:52] <nosebleedkt_> last picture looks at the sky
[11:52] <Laurenceb> how did you get it back?
[11:53] <nosebleedkt_> restored the faulty coords
[11:53] <nosebleedkt_> leading zeros were missing
[11:55] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:57] <nosebleedkt_> ok, good pics are 64
[11:57] <nosebleedkt_> from 1013
[11:58] <nosebleedkt_> :P
[11:58] <nosebleedkt_> jpeg cam took around 1800 pics :P
[11:58] <nosebleedkt_> and the main system was still transmitting next day :)
[12:01] <costyn> re convo earlier about lack of useful pins on the RPi, this looks useful: http://hackaday.com/2012/07/23/the-proper-way-to-put-an-arduino-in-a-raspberry-pi/
[12:03] <nosebleedkt_> mountain olympus from near space: http://imagebin.org/222064
[12:06] <nosebleedkt_> i wanna dance
[12:06] <nosebleedkt_> now !
[12:07] <costyn> :)
[12:07] <craag> nosebleedkt_: These are fantastic.
[12:07] <nosebleedkt_> im so bad hahahaha
[12:17] <daveake> costyn: Yeah, I managed to avoid putting an Arduino on top of the Pi :-)
[12:18] <daveake> The whole point was to do something interesting with the Pi that was sat on my desk, without ending up with something that would have worked without the Pi being there at all :)
[12:19] <daveake> Since the aim was to fl
[12:19] <daveake> oops
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[12:19] <daveake> Since the aim was to fly a Pi without a "co-processor", then that's what I did
[12:21] <costyn> daveake: yea ok; i've just been thinking of wanint to use the pi for robot brains, but my experience thusfar with interfacing with sensors and motors has been arduino. this seems like a possible solution
[12:21] <fsphil> nice nosebleedkt_
[12:21] <daveake> Well, if you need some interfacing and a bit more power than an Arduino, it's a solution.
[12:21] <nosebleedkt_> How to thank all of you for helping me all those years !
[12:22] <Randomskk> help others ;)
[12:22] <nosebleedkt_> :)
[12:22] <daveake> For hobbyist projects, it hardly matters if it's the "best" solution either - just do whatever you want
[12:22] <Randomskk> ^this, the whole point is to have fun however you want
[12:22] <Randomskk> don't build things worrying about what the mean commenters on hack a day will say
[12:22] <daveake> Randomskk, are you thinking of him helping someone in particular ....? If so, that's *evil* :(
[12:22] <costyn> Randomskk: heheh
[12:22] <daveake> I mean :)
[12:23] <costyn> daveake: haha
[12:23] <Randomskk> daveake: no! I really wasn't. but now you mention it...
[12:23] <daveake> lol
[12:23] <fsphil> I'm not sure anyone can help there
[12:23] <costyn> hay guys i balloon want to launch plz halp
[12:23] <Randomskk> I can think of one way to help
[12:23] <Randomskk> it involves a 'b' and a '+' but not in that order
[12:24] <Laurenceb> the commenters is the best part of hackaday
[12:24] <Laurenceb> they destroy the stupid projects
[12:27] <fsphil> woo-hoo, two and a half weeks until the olympics are over
[12:27] <Laurenceb> haha
[12:27] <Laurenceb> http://www.whrsoc.org.uk/WHRProject/microETS.html
[12:28] <Laurenceb> what part of that is micro
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[12:31] <fsphil> that's a really big mountain nosebleedkt_
[12:32] <fsphil> nothing in my pictures had any visible elevation
[12:34] <nosebleedkt_> :P
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[12:39] <eroomde> Laurenceb: pong
[12:39] <eroomde> but not here long
[12:40] <Randomskk> eroomde: are you going to EMF? can't remember if I asked
[12:42] <eroomde> Randomskk: don;t think so
[12:42] <eroomde> i'm afriad
[12:42] <eroomde> every day at work is emf for me :)
[12:43] <Randomskk> aw :(
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[12:48] <eroomde> Randomskk: when is it tho?
[12:51] <eroomde> there is nothing so powerful feeling as writing a hundred lines of python and having it work first time :D
[12:52] <eroomde> I AM BORIS
[12:52] <zyp> the thing I experienced when I learned python was than things started to usually work on the first try
[12:52] <daveake> http://mashable.com/2012/07/24/boris-johnson-olympic-welcome/ ?
[12:54] <Laurenceb> eroomde: simple way to do altimeter
[12:54] <jordan_> Hi guys! I'm working on my first hab project. I've heard the NTX2 is a good transmitter to use. Has anyone had much luck using the NRX2 receiver or similar? I don't have a transceiver..
[12:54] <Laurenceb> something to do guassian fsk -> nonlinear thingy -> few meters of coax -> antenni
[12:54] <daveake> No, you need a "proper" receiver
[12:55] <Laurenceb> something to do guassian fsk -> T off to nonlinear thingy -> few meters of coax -> antenni
[12:55] <Laurenceb> even
[12:55] <daveake> e.g. FT790R, AOR8000, Funcube dongle
[12:55] <Laurenceb> so you could use say a mixer with two inputs connected
[12:56] <Laurenceb> then connect the output to boadish bandpass about 10 to 100khz and amplifier
[12:56] <Laurenceb> that goes to adc
[12:56] <eroomde> Laurenceb: def want to discus this (fo sho) but also now not the best time
[12:56] <Laurenceb> k :P
[12:56] <eroomde> codathon
[12:56] <Laurenceb> :P
[12:57] <Laurenceb> but anyways i think its poss with a chipcon and stm32
[12:57] <jordan_> daveake: Thanks, I'll check those out!
[12:57] <Laurenceb> if a bit hackish
[12:57] <UpuWork> jordan_ http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[12:57] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=70
[12:58] <daveake> Another option is a DVB dongle (£15) and pre-amp/filter (being tested now) buit you're a bit early for that atm
[12:58] <UpuWork> they are fine for testing
[12:58] Action: Laurenceb now has esd diode and sma connector on his dongle
[12:58] <eroomde> zyp: you're a special one aren;t you
[12:58] <Laurenceb> that sounds wrong
[12:58] <UpuWork> ah glad you came round all the coolest kids have diodes on their dongles
[12:59] <Laurenceb> and piss poor impedance matching
[12:59] <Laurenceb> ill shut up now
[12:59] <Laurenceb> i used a proper usb3 one
[13:00] <eroomde> impedance mathing on a 70-1500Mhz device?
[13:01] <UpuWork> Laurenceb £15 mate :)
[13:06] <Laurenceb> eroomde: its already 50ohm matched
[13:06] <MrScienceMan> 5/fq 1
[13:06] <Laurenceb> UpuWork:.. wait did you send me this dongle?
[13:07] <UpuWork> eh ?
[13:07] <Laurenceb> oh nvm
[13:07] <Laurenceb> im losing the plot gain
[13:07] <UpuWork> :)
[13:09] <jordan_> What is the EZCAP dongle like compared to the FUNcube dongle?
[13:09] <eroomde> q
[13:09] <eroomde> :q
[13:09] <eroomde> oh shizzle
[13:09] <eroomde> bbl
[13:10] <daveake> The EZCAP needs a pre-amp. Not been tested on a flight yet (unless Upu knows better) but hopefully will be soon
[13:10] <daveake> The Funcube is very good so long as you don't have any strong local transmitters
[13:10] <UpuWork> I think you could do with without a preamp/filter
[13:10] <fsphil> someone here did track with an rtl-sdr recently
[13:10] <UpuWork> but it will help hugely
[13:10] <fsphil> but I can't remember the specifics
[13:11] <craag> I use my E4000-based dongle for tracking regularly.
[13:11] <UpuWork> sadly I'm not here on Sunday to test it
[13:11] <UpuWork> there you go
[13:11] <fsphil> craag's da man
[13:11] <craag> Works great, got 300 baud from the Pi no problem.
[13:11] <fsphil> I tracked that same flight with a funcube dongle
[13:11] <fsphil> no preamp
[13:11] <fsphil> didn't manage too many packets though
[13:12] <UpuWork> yeah but you are 500km away :)
[13:12] <jordan_> Awesome. I might get a funcube dongle then :)
[13:13] <UpuWork> personally I'd try it with a cheap one first
[13:13] <UpuWork> for testing they will be fine
[13:13] <craag> my dongle ~= EZCAP by the way.
[13:13] <UpuWork> != ?
[13:13] <craag> It's a cheap one, not a Funcube.
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[13:13] <craag> Well it's E4000, that's the only difference.
[13:14] <UpuWork> I'm testing FCD vs F0013 vs E4000 dongles when we have a launch
[13:14] <craag> Cool, that'd be good to see.
[13:15] <UpuWork> however getting my new antenna up on Wednesday so that should make a fairly huge difference
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[13:15] <navrac_work> I tested the fcd vs the E4000 on the last launch - the FCD won hands down - but there was no preamp on the E4000 so not really a fair test
[13:16] <craag> I'm going to test my E4000 vs FT790 on the next flight.
[13:16] <UpuWork> but let me come back to this for testing on the bench you can't go wrong with a dongle
[13:16] <gonzo_> I expect the agc action will be the killer on the DVB dongle
[13:16] <navrac_work> not for the price
[13:16] <gonzo_> in such a busy band as 434meg
[13:17] <craag> Not too bad near me, but yes, DVB Dongle for testing ++.
[13:17] <fsphil> maybe the funcube dongle guys could build us a cut-down version of the fcd :)
[13:17] <fsphil> it would be ideal
[13:17] <daveake> navrac_work Did the same here on a launch. Same results.
[13:18] <UpuWork> Local noise with no filter : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/without-habfilter.png
[13:18] <UpuWork> With https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/with-habfilter.png
[13:20] <Randomskk> eroomde: had to run, back now, it's emfcamp.org and 31st aug - 2nd sept
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[13:32] <Darkside> UpuWork: cool
[13:33] <joph> UpuWork, which stick are you using?
[13:33] <joph> the ezcap one?
[13:37] <[1]Hix> ello peeps - just looked on the predictor - not too many probs recovering today...
[13:41] <daveake> Shame I'm launching Sunday not today then :p
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[13:47] <Josh_> Hi all!
[13:48] <Darkside> uh, hi
[13:50] <Josh_> How's it going? Seems fairly quiet....
[13:50] <Darkside> mm
[13:50] <Darkside> not much going on
[13:50] <Darkside> i'm hoping to launch soon
[13:51] <Darkside> want to try for an altitude record using helium, not hydrogen
[13:51] <Randomskk> but helium is sooo much heavier
[13:51] <Randomskk> >_>
[13:51] <Josh_> What's the current altitude record?
[13:51] <Darkside> 43.7km
[13:51] <daveake> For helium, I /think/ it's mine - Buzz 5 - 41882m (137408 ft)
[13:52] <daveake> For H2, XABEN-25 - 43721m (143441 ft)
[13:52] <Josh_> ahh cool.
[13:53] <Josh_> you've probably discussed this already but the one i always get asked is 'why not put a release valve on it?'
[13:53] <Josh_> realeasing gas, making balloon smaller hence more lift until kaboom
[13:53] <daveake> > making balloon smaller hence more lift. Wrong
[13:53] <Randomskk> letting gas out reduces your lift
[13:53] <Randomskk> incidentally
[13:54] <Josh_> oh yeah :/
[13:54] <Randomskk> I mean I realise the gas is heavy and all
[13:54] <Josh_> lol
[13:54] <Randomskk> so actaully sometimes you put a small hole in to let out a bit of gas
[13:54] <daveake> Hence the cylinders being really heavy
[13:54] <Randomskk> the idea there is to reduce your lift until you float
[13:54] <Randomskk> though it's very hard to get right
[13:54] <Josh_> mmm yeah, some tough calculations
[13:54] <Randomskk> also what you do not want is for the balloon to drift slowly down still partially inflated because then it can end up drifting over roads and things
[13:55] <Randomskk> not really about calculations
[13:55] <Randomskk> hard physically
[13:55] <Randomskk> the physics is straightforward under assumptions and models (and very very hard if you don't make simplifying assumptions so we don't bother) but
[13:55] <Josh_> hmmm
[13:55] <Randomskk> most of it is down to things you can't just get right
[13:55] <Randomskk> need an active control system on the balloon really
[13:55] <Josh_> i see
[13:55] <daveake> Of the 2 highest, one (mine) floated for a while; the other (Steve's) went up very quickly. There was 82m difference between them. Maybe an in-between figure would do better. Who knows? The balloons vary a lot.
[13:56] <Randomskk> yea the high level of difference between them is an issue
[13:56] <Josh_> I could be barking up completely the wrong tree here but I'll risk it.......does the shape of the balloon affect lift? Can they be manufactured into different shapes?
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[13:56] <daveake> Another ballon, another day, same lift etc and you get 27km
[13:56] <Randomskk> yes, no
[13:57] <Randomskk> well - in theory they could be manufactured in different shapes
[13:57] <daveake> "ballon" - heh, now I'm speaking foreign :)
[13:57] <Randomskk> in practice no
[13:57] <Randomskk> also the difference would not be that big a deal and the drag isn't usually a concern
[13:57] <Randomskk> doesn't affect altitude only rate
[13:57] <Randomskk> raelly
[13:58] <Josh_> so no chance of a rocket shaped balloon :D
[13:58] <Josh_> yeah
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[14:01] <Josh_> well good luck with the launch!
[14:01] <Laurenceb> wonder if you could use a dvbt stick for its intended purpose with a raspberry pi
[14:02] <Josh_> i'm currently looking for someone who could piggyback on my next launch....open to experimental projects but a working radio telemetry system is a must :D
[14:02] <daveake> What are you intending to launch?
[14:02] <Laurenceb> your mum
[14:03] <daveake> ashes then
[14:03] <Darkside> Josh_: you mean you're lookign for someone with a working telemetry system
[14:03] <Darkside> go build your own
[14:03] <daveake> good idea
[14:03] <Darkside> it's not hard
[14:03] <Darkside> gps + arduino + NTX2
[14:03] <Laurenceb> *cough* ntx2
[14:03] <Darkside> oh, and batteries
[14:03] <Darkside> easy
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[14:04] <UpuWork> hey Josh assume its Josh "Talking Branson" Taylor ? :)
[14:04] <Josh_> yeah i have tried....i always stumble on the coding part....somewhere along the line, there is a passage of frighteningly long words
[14:04] <UpuWork> afternoon Dan
[14:04] <Darkside> Josh_: and learn
[14:04] <Darkside> learn
[14:04] <Darkside> it's not that hard
[14:04] <Josh_> You would be correct Upu (Anthony)?
[14:05] <Darkside> people will not give you a complete tracker
[14:05] <Darkside> think of tracker design as a rite of passage
[14:05] <Josh_> yes i understand that
[14:05] <daveake> Much more rewarding to do it all yourself. Gives you something to show off about.
[14:05] <Josh_> I'm just so eager to launch now
[14:05] <UpuWork> Thats me Josh_
[14:05] <Josh_> but i do hear what you're saying
[14:05] <UpuWork> Josh can you do me a favour
[14:05] <Josh_> indeed!
[14:06] <Darkside> Josh_: then launch
[14:06] <UpuWork> can you correct the catastrophic spelling error on your blog :)
[14:06] <Darkside> you just won't get the payload back
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[14:06] <Darkside> if you want to get your payload back, then design and build a tracker
[14:06] <Josh_> or see if anyone has got an experimental project they want to try for free?
[14:07] <Josh_> absolutely, i should think a good percentage of the blog is spelling errors :S
[14:07] <Josh_> where can I find it (them)?
[14:07] <Darkside> Josh_: people doing their own experimental launches have their own troubles
[14:07] <UpuWork> JTSA: Payload Construcshun
[14:07] <Darkside> without a bucket of paint below their payload
[14:07] <Josh_> Ahhhh yes
[14:07] <Josh_> no that was intentional
[14:07] <UpuWork> oh
[14:07] <Josh_> although a number of people have complained....
[14:07] <Josh_> haha! think i better change it
[14:07] <daveake> You mean intenshunal?
[14:08] <Josh_> :D
[14:08] <Darkside> ERMAGHERD
[14:09] <Darkside> PERLERD CERNSTRECHSHERN
[14:09] <number10> you are not launching with paint Josh_ ? there are envirnmental issues - your not allowed even to dispose of it down the drain let alone ransomly on someone elses land
[14:09] <number10> randomly
[14:09] <Josh_> I understand that
[14:09] <Darkside> then why are you planning on flying it
[14:09] <Josh_> I've been working with ReAgent, a chemist company, who have constructed a solution
[14:10] <Josh_> it isn't paint
[14:10] <Darkside> you're still likely goign to be dropping stuff off the payload
[14:10] <Dan-K2VOL> ooh an actual science experiment?
[14:10] <Darkside> which isn't a good idea
[14:10] <daveake> ink? solvent-based? water-based?
[14:10] <Darkside> and may just generally not be allowed
[14:11] <Randomskk> daveake: water's a solvent
[14:11] <Randomskk> :P
[14:11] <Josh_> the payload has lipped edges to reduce the amount of the 60ml of solution onboard falling away
[14:11] <daveake> yes yes but in the business ....
[14:11] <daveake> Your payload will be at a random angle so not sure a lip helps
[14:11] <daveake> plus it'll have wind going past
[14:12] <[1]Hix> Is there a period where the jetstream is a settled as it's looking at the mo? i.e how long do I have to get my arse in gear and get the tracker sorted out and launched without crossing 1/2 the country?
[14:12] <daveake> as well as the swinging around bit
[14:12] <Josh_> it's a glycerol based solution
[14:12] <Darkside> [1]Hix: monitor the predictions
[14:12] <Darkside> keep on watching them, every day
[14:12] <Darkside> look at differnet imes
[14:12] <Darkside> and look at how they change throughout the month
[14:12] <Darkside> as weather patterns change, so willthe predictions
[14:13] <[1]Hix> yeah, have been since Mar, but just wondering if there's a general pattern?
[14:13] <Josh_> and there will be a 10cm gap between solution and payload to hopefully reduce again any solution falling
[14:13] <UpuWork> [1]Hix check http://hourly.upuaut.net which is currently setup for daveake's predictions
[14:13] <Dan-K2VOL> Josh, i'm just curious, what's the experiment?
[14:13] <UpuWork> [1]Hix the prediction is "changeable"
[14:13] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: it's not an experiment
[14:13] <daveake> Do you expect this stuff to still be liquid? And to actually dry when it lands on the target?
[14:13] <Josh_> if some were to drop off, then at the very max, it could be a rain drop of paint
[14:13] <Darkside> it's 'art'
[14:13] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: it's top secret art iirc
[14:13] <daveake> It's aarrrrrtt?
[14:13] <Josh_> potentially 'art'
[14:13] <Josh_> but who knows.....
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[14:14] <Josh_> daveake yes, the solution has been tested in a laboratory
[14:14] <daveake> Reminds me. Must read Blott On The Landscape again
[14:14] <[1]Hix> ahh cool UpuWork better than running a cusf everytime i wanted to see
[14:14] <Josh_> and they say it has been liquid at very cold temepreatures
[14:14] <UpuWork> [1]Hix I can set it for your launch location but at the moment its set for daveake
[14:15] <number10> UpuWork: is it easy to put a front end on that so user could enter launch site?
[14:15] <[1]Hix> no worries UpuWork i've still not got my tracker sorted out - been arsing around with other things and its been sort of sidelined of late
[14:15] <Josh_> hopefully that answers the questions?
[14:15] <UpuWork> well not really as it takes about 30 mins to run
[14:15] <[1]Hix> but i found my usb stick with all my HAB data so I'm sort of back :D
[14:15] <Darkside> number10: it runs a lot of predictions
[14:16] <UpuWork> it could do with an "admin" portal on it though
[14:16] <Randomskk> also it runs them all the time
[14:16] <Darkside> very processit intensive
[14:16] <Randomskk> hmm
[14:16] <Dan-K2VOL> so Josh_, you want to carry paint up and have it splash on something?
[14:16] <number10> yes, Darkside I realise - just wondering if launch site could be entered before run
[14:16] <Randomskk> in theory it would not be hard to make an interface to do one-off runs of the next week
[14:16] <daveake> I assume it runs once shortly after the wind data updates?
[14:16] <Josh_> haha! in simple terms yes
[14:16] <Randomskk> but yea it's pretty computationally and bandwidth intensive
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[14:16] <Randomskk> daveake: yea it runs a prediction for every hour in the next several days every time a new model is released
[14:17] <Josh_> and i'm all ready for launch....
[14:17] <Dan-K2VOL> what are you wanting to splash it on?
[14:17] <Darkside> we use it for project horus stuff
[14:17] <UpuWork> it runs once every 6 hours
[14:17] <Dan-K2VOL> nice! got any pics Josh_?
[14:17] <Darkside> it's incredibly useful
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[14:17] <Darkside> Randomskk: did you write it?
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[14:17] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[14:17] <daveake> Randomskk Ta
[14:17] <Randomskk> the frontend UI was written by an ex-cusf person
[14:17] <Josh_> absolutely, here's my blog and the project in question: http://www.joshingtalk.com/category/joshingtalk-space-art
[14:17] <Darkside> ahh
[14:17] <Randomskk> who appeared, wrote that, quit never to be seen again
[14:17] <Darkside> i think terry it considering modifying it
[14:17] <Randomskk> the actual prediction backend is the standard cusf one
[14:18] <Darkside> mm
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> I think I made a conclusion: Either Pro Mega 3.3V cannot handle multiple sensors, it impossible to run a balloon system with multiple sensors or there is a big system failure
[14:18] <Randomskk> my contributions to predictor stuff have mostly been on the normal one-off predictor, though that's mostly jon's work
[14:18] <Josh_> it's a canvas, tried and tested to soak up but not sponge the solution
[14:18] <Randomskk> Lunar_LanderU: probably you have a system failure
[14:18] <UpuWork> lunar option 4: your code is causing issues ?
[14:18] <Josh_> A3 in size with a strenghthed back
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> I want to ask
[14:19] <Lunar_LanderU> did anyone here run the BMP085 alongside DS18B20 and ublox Max6?
[14:19] <UpuWork> A 328 can handle it
[14:19] <costyn> Lunar_LanderU: yes, well ublox 5
[14:19] <UpuWork> Swift was a 644 based µC and they handled them all
[14:19] <costyn> Lunar_LanderU: but 5v
[14:20] <daveake> Yes I did LL
[14:20] <daveake> at 3.3V
[14:21] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[14:21] <Randomskk> Darkside: if terry does useful modifications it'd be great if he opened a pull request on the github repo
[14:21] <Lunar_LanderU> well the thing is that I tried the thing with the hardcoded DS18B20 address
[14:22] <costyn> UpuWork: can you change the launchpoint on hourly.upuaut.net?
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> nevertheless the temperature shown after a few cycles is "0" and the barometer also shows utter nonsense
[14:22] <Darkside> Randomskk: yeah pretty sure he would
[14:22] <Randomskk> cool
[14:22] <costyn> Lunar_LanderU: have you considered a buffer overflow?
[14:22] <Darkside> i really want to see the live predictions using the ascent data though
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> not yet
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> how can I handle that?
[14:22] <Darkside> thats probably the most useful addition
[14:22] <UpuWork> costyn yes
[14:22] <daveake> I told you
[14:23] <Dan-K2VOL> Josh_ the handwarmer isn't going to be much help if it's an oxygen reaction packet, there's not enough oxygen at altitude.
[14:23] <Darkside> we need it for our offline stuff
[14:23] <daveake> Check the index (i in that case) against the length of the buffer (buf)
[14:23] <UpuWork> Josh you do not need a hand warmer
[14:23] <UpuWork> its a waste of weight
[14:23] <Josh_> Yeah I know....i was thinking of ridding it as Upu said on our first project
[14:23] <Josh_> ^^ :D
[14:23] <Josh_> it's 50 grams and the nglish weather is looking might fine at the moment!
[14:24] <Dan-K2VOL> hm, the temperature at altitude doesn't vary much from winter to summer
[14:24] <costyn> UpuWork: let me rephrase that, can I change the launchpoint in the interface (URL params?); or is it only for your own launchpoint?
[14:24] <Josh_> I've got the helium as well so if there happens to be a double launch on the same day, I'm sure i'd be able to help out
[14:25] <Randomskk> costyn: it's a config file on the server
[14:25] <Randomskk> and it then runs the predictions in the background four times a day
[14:25] <costyn> Randomskk: ok that answers my question :)
[14:25] <Randomskk> the website is entirely static html
[14:25] <Randomskk> it just renders the pre-generated flights
[14:25] <Randomskk> fetching the data for a whole week of predictions takes ages
[14:26] <[1]Hix> so if you have your own web server you could run this for your own purposes?
[14:26] <Randomskk> yes
[14:26] <daveake> Which is exactly what Upu did
[14:27] <Randomskk> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction/tree/master/web/hourly-predictions
[14:27] <[1]Hix> hmm - when you say fetching the data takes ages, how long are we talkking? I have pants pipe
[14:27] <UpuWork> it would be fair to say its not the easiest thing to set up
[14:27] <Randomskk> it's a faff to set up
[14:27] <[1]Hix> but I do have a little web server going
[14:27] <daveake> As I'm lazy I asked him to configure his for my flgith, rather than me install on my server :D
[14:27] <Randomskk> it's nto really designed to be distributed
[14:27] <daveake> flight
[14:27] <Randomskk> it was just for our use and the code happens to be on github
[14:27] <Randomskk> [1]Hix: couldn't even guess, uhm
[14:27] <Randomskk> uhm
[14:27] <Randomskk> a fair while
[14:27] <Randomskk> but less than six hours
[14:27] <Dan-K2VOL> neat to see some art happening Josh_, though I would humbly request that you correct "space" balloon on your website and paid instructions to "high altitude" or "near-space".
[14:27] <Randomskk> so you mgiht be okay
[14:28] <[1]Hix> ok, anyone got a link to gti?
[14:28] <Randomskk> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction/tree/master/web/hourly-predictions
[14:28] <Randomskk> ?
[14:28] <daveake> I think Upu's has been ready within 30 minutes of me asking him to set it up for me
[14:28] <daveake> But he has a fast pipe probably
[14:29] <UpuWork> my pipe is fat
[14:29] <daveake> ooer
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[14:29] <daveake> and you have diodes on your dongle
[14:29] <Josh_> Thank you for your comments Dan! I've been in consideration with that for a long time and aprpeciate where you come from
[14:29] <[1]Hix> thankly - UpuWork still only on 80?
[14:29] <Randomskk> UpuWork: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1981753836.png :P
[14:30] <UpuWork> 80/20 which is actually 45/16
[14:30] <UpuWork> Which I'm more than happy with thanks
[14:30] <Randomskk> I have 40/10 at home which is nice enough
[14:30] <UpuWork> as its rock solid never drops
[14:30] <Randomskk> but 378/242 (actually gigabit ethernet direct to the internet) is also very nice
[14:31] <Randomskk> I think it might have saturated something between me and the speedtest server
[14:31] <Randomskk> like the server :P
[14:31] <UpuWork> for a residential connection where previously got 0.75/0.3 I'm very happy :)
[14:31] <UpuWork> most likely Randomskk :)
[14:31] <Randomskk> hehe yea
[14:31] <Randomskk> I went from 5.5/0.5 to 40/10 and it's beautiful
[14:32] <UpuWork> you'd probably get very close to 80/20 if you upgraded it
[14:32] <Randomskk> atm my isp doesn't do that upgrade
[14:32] <[1]Hix> so if i hosted one I'd update scenario-template.json for my launch params?
[14:32] <UpuWork> who are you with ?
[14:32] <Randomskk> but also I doubt my dad'd go for paying for it at home
[14:32] <Randomskk> eclipse
[14:32] <[1]Hix> or is there a sting in the tail?
[14:32] <UpuWork> thats correct [1]Hix
[14:32] <Randomskk> [1]Hix: yea. and then set it all up
[14:33] <Randomskk> including all the python mess, compile the C predictor, set up directories and permissions and cron jobs
[14:33] <UpuWork> then run /opt/cusf-landing-prediction/scripts/fetch-run-cronjob.sh
[14:33] <Randomskk> and point a web server at the output
[14:33] <Randomskk> easy
[14:33] <Randomskk> you could even run it locally and just file:///bla in your browser
[14:33] <Randomskk> (I would avoid doing that, sometimes javascrupt doesn't work properly)
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: you don't have your code online somewhere maybe?
[14:35] <[1]Hix> hmm - so I'd need to be able to speak snake to get it running?
[14:35] <Randomskk> shouldn't have to
[14:35] <Randomskk> just need to install the requirements
[14:35] <Randomskk> but I don't think they're listed anywhere so you might have to run it and install things until it works
[14:35] <Randomskk> I haven't set it up in a while
[14:35] <Randomskk> but can probably assist
[14:36] <UpuWork> [1]Hix let me see if I still have the .bash_history when I installed it
[14:36] <Randomskk> haha
[14:36] <Randomskk> I imagine it's full of cussing
[14:36] <UpuWork> lol
[14:36] <UpuWork> damn right
[14:36] <[1]Hix> :D
[14:36] <[1]Hix> sorry for being [1]Hix but i did specify Hix
[14:36] <[1]Hix> must be taken on freenode
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> I keep thinking you have a citation following Hix :-P
[14:38] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[14:38] <[1]Hix> ermmm -- just realised, needs unix server doesn't it
[14:38] <UpuWork> lol
[14:39] <Randomskk> it would take really some work to make it run on windows
[14:40] <UpuWork> it takes some work to get it working on Linux
[14:40] <[1]Hix> doom - though I have a RPi coming, is that a possibility for unix, would thast cope with hourly predict job?
[14:40] <[1]Hix> UpuWork, :D
[14:40] <Upu> I rent £5 per week
[14:41] <UpuWork> as soon as Dave is done
[14:41] <UpuWork> its yours
[14:41] <daveake> :)
[14:41] <daveake> Wassup LL?
[14:41] <[1]Hix> :D
[14:42] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: do you have your code online?
[14:42] <UpuWork> ;p;
[14:42] <UpuWork> lol
[14:42] <UpuWork> even
[14:42] <daveake> nope
[14:42] <UpuWork> my.bash_history from installing the hourly
[14:42] <UpuWork> is 850 lines long
[14:43] <Randomskk> haha
[14:43] <Randomskk> !
[14:43] <daveake> lol
[14:43] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
[14:43] <daveake> Best to fix yours - learn more that way
[14:43] <UpuWork> sorry 332
[14:43] <UpuWork> still alot
[14:43] <Lunar_LanderU> hm ok
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[14:44] <daveake> If you start with something that works, then add stuff that stops it working, try adding bit by bit. Or add half of it (do a binary chop till you get to the bit that killed it)
[14:44] <Lunar_LanderU> hm ok
[14:45] <UpuWork> http://pastebin.com/2NZ9xP9r
[14:45] <Josh_> I had better head back to work but it's been good to catch up with everyone again. I understand there is a bit of uneasiness in the air and I just wanted to take ths chance to apologise to those of you who are a bit unsure! Hopefully there's some way we can work it out and eventually, keep the high altitude flights going.
[14:45] <daveake> s/uneasiness/ink/
[14:45] <Josh_> I shall keep you updated of my launch and plans and if anyone would potentially like to piggyback, it would be great to hear from you
[14:46] <Darkside> Josh_:
[14:46] <Darkside> you'll be piggybacking on their launch
[14:46] <Darkside> not them on you
[14:46] <Josh_> Thanks and have a good day!
[14:46] <daveake> +1. The person with the tracker is the one who's launching.
[14:46] <Randomskk> Darkside: his balloon, helium, launch site, his launch
[14:46] <Randomskk> I've put trackers as piggybacks on launches that didn't have radios, it's still their launch
[14:46] <Darkside> mmrrgh
[14:47] <daveake> I disagree, fwiw
[14:47] <Josh_> I have access to helium althoug yes, i understand
[14:47] <Randomskk> daveake: how does the tracker make the launch?
[14:47] <craag> Still, it's the radio guy who finds the payload afterwards.
[14:47] <craag> and finders keepers!
[14:47] <Randomskk> yes, it's the radio guy who finds the payload
[14:47] <daveake> Well, let me think about that :D
[14:47] <Josh_> well i'm hoping to work in collaboration with someone
[14:47] <gonzo_> and the launcher who gets the bill if it if found wrapping in power lines
[14:47] <Randomskk> but if someone else is paying for and providing the balloon and helium and organising the launch site and I guess most importantly has organised the launch
[14:48] <Randomskk> then whoever's providing the radio tracker is doing just that, imo
[14:48] <daveake> For mine this weekend, I am providing the He etc; the scouts are providing a non-tracking payload and the launch site.
[14:48] <Josh_> ^^ absolute, i will make sure to do that
[14:48] <Josh_> someone just needs to turn up with the tracker and have a good time
[14:48] <Josh_> for a little bit of cash as well
[14:48] <[1]Hix> see what you mean UpuWork
[14:49] <daveake> So go figure with that combination. My opinion is: I'm the one with the launch experience, so it's my call on whether we launch or not, and what the flight plan is. So in that regard it's my launch. Or maybe it's more accurate to say I'm in control of their launch.
[14:49] <UpuWork> look it was that bad I even read the manual : vi README
[14:50] <Randomskk> daveake: that's fair enough too I guess
[14:50] <Randomskk> it depends on if you're just saying "sure, here's a radio payload, go nuts"
[14:50] <Randomskk> or saying "okay, I'll collaborate with you, I think <...>"
[14:50] <Randomskk> but even in the latter case I'd see it more as you advising and them launching
[14:50] <number10> go nuts - thats Darkside ;)
[14:50] <[1]Hix> I saw two vi README's hence knew it was a ballache
[14:50] <Randomskk> or rather, it's still their call on whether the launch happens or not
[14:51] <zyp> what if two trackers are provided by different guys? :p
[14:51] <Randomskk> just perhaps your call as to whether your payload goes up with it
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[14:52] <Josh_> I'd like to launch with someone who has experience therefore they can turn around and say 'it's too windy, let's not do this' etc etc
[14:52] <daveake> Randomskk: Well, if they say "don't want to launch with that prediction" then that's fine. Either of us can make that call; we don't fly unless we're all happy.
[14:52] <Josh_> ^^ bang on
[14:52] <Randomskk> daveake: my point is more that if you say "don't launch" and they want to not listen to you and go ahead anyway they can
[14:52] <Randomskk> and in that respect it's their launch
[14:53] <daveake> Well, it's my balloon and parachute and helium and radio tracker
[14:53] <daveake> So they're not
[14:53] <Randomskk> I'm talking about Josh_'s request for someone's radio tracker
[14:53] <daveake> Oh, sure
[14:53] <Randomskk> so it's presumably his balloon, parachute and helium
[14:54] <daveake> OK, I think I probably agree now :)
[14:54] <Randomskk> I think we might have been talking about different things :P
[14:54] <daveake> I was more thining about my scenario earlier :)
[14:54] <daveake> yes :D
[14:54] <Josh_> correct- i will be purchasing everything and i could technically launch right now
[14:54] <zyp> a balloon can be launched without a tracker, not the other way around, so IMO it's pretty clear whose launch it is
[14:55] <Josh_> but i would like to have the expertise of someone with experience to help guide me and pottentially lend a tracker
[14:55] <Darkside> zyp: but if the person wants to recover their payload, the tracker is essential
[14:55] <Darkside> without it, the launc his a failure
[14:55] <zyp> Darkside, sure, but that's irrelevant to the argument
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[15:00] <Josh_> I will make a revised post on the UK HAS group in a week or so so as to be more specific and tyr not to confuse anyone
[15:00] <Josh_> Thanks again for the help and have a good day!
[15:00] <gonzo_> daveake: what's the arrangement on bottle hire with AP/BOC H2 ?
[15:00] <Josh_> Cheers
[15:00] <daveake> What you mean how long you get it for etc?
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[15:01] <gonzo_> yep how long or hwhat's the hire cost/period
[15:02] <UpuWork> For the record Josh is ok really however I'm not comfortable with what he's doing, nor do I think it has any scientific merit. However what he wants is a commerical launch, hes not got the skills to make a tracker so he needs to rely on someone who has
[15:02] <daveake> I know about BOC only. Steve has used AP. BOC K cylinder is £44+VAT which includes 1 month's rental. You then need to pay to collect (yes, really) and that's £15. Total comes to £68 IIRC
[15:02] <UpuWork> My account has no collection charge on it for no reason that anyone can work out
[15:03] <daveake> K cylinder is 70kg and you need 2 people to lug it around really
[15:03] <daveake> 7.2 m^3
[15:03] <number10> the next size down on that daveake is a lot smaller?
[15:04] <daveake> which conveniently is enough for 2 launches, unless you've got 2 heavy payloads
[15:04] <daveake> 1.6 or something silly
[15:04] <daveake> That's a B.
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[15:04] <number10> stange there isnt somthing between that is suitable for one launch
[15:04] <daveake> Shame there's no medium size like with He
[15:05] <daveake> AP may have a medium. Dunno. Steve's cylinder was maybe a bit fatter and shorter than the K, but still quite large
[15:06] <UpuWork> K cylinder is suitable for one launch
[15:06] <UpuWork> :)
[15:07] <number10> what just incase you let one go accidently
[15:08] <daveake> Who'd do that? :)
[15:09] <number10> I think ed did it once - but could be wrong
[15:09] <Randomskk> it has happened
[15:09] <Randomskk> you don't launch a hundred balloons without some surprises
[15:09] <daveake> Indeed
[15:09] <Randomskk> usually the surprises happen when someone is sponsoring it and is there watching
[15:09] <daveake> Ed had a "oh no not again" look on his face when I let an inflated ballon out of my hand
[15:10] <daveake> He probably hadn't noticed it was tied down
[15:10] <number10> you did it aswell daveake ? didnt realise
[15:10] <number10> ah
[15:10] <daveake> No, it went 10m then stopped suddenly :)
[15:10] <Randomskk> haha
[15:10] <Randomskk> that was really bad
[15:11] <Darkside> hahaha
[15:11] <Darkside> still nto a good idea
[15:11] <Darkside> in case the cable ties can't handle impulse loads
[15:11] <daveake> Indeed
[15:12] <daveake> I was less worried than I should have been when it went :D
[15:12] <nosebleedkt_> the funny this is that i can just buy a new balloon and fly another mission
[15:12] <nosebleedkt_> this/thing
[15:13] <daveake> fix the leading zeroes first :)
[15:13] <nosebleedkt_> yeah sure :)
[15:13] <daveake> btdt
[15:14] <Randomskk> I think it's happened a few times
[15:14] <Randomskk> possibly only once with ed
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[15:18] <WillDuckworth> red sky at night......
[15:21] <nigelvh> green cars at lunch..........
[15:21] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[15:21] <Lunar_LanderU> well, I'll be back later
[15:21] <daveake> Just say "I'll be back" :)
[15:22] <nigelvh> Get in the choppah!
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[15:24] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
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[15:25] <fsphil> the best part about that quit message is that it's the default and not intentional :)
[15:25] <daveake> lol
[15:26] <nigelvh> What if it were default AND intentional?
[15:29] <daveake> Konvenient
[15:33] <Laurenceb> http://wallyoz.smugmug.com/photos/i-fv5cK6b/0/L/i-fv5cK6b-L.jpg
[15:37] <MrScienceMan> /fq 12
[15:38] <number10> looks like a smoking chip Laurenceb
[15:38] <UpuWork> personally I'd put the camera down and go turn it off
[15:39] <UpuWork> is that a timing chip ?
[15:39] <number10> lol UpuWork
[15:39] <Darkside> yep
[15:39] <Darkside> it is
[15:39] <UpuWork> aren't those very expensive
[15:39] <Darkside> maybe 80 pounds
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[16:47] <eroomde> Randomskk: ok
[16:47] <eroomde> have a wedding then anyhoo
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[16:56] <eroomde> Laurenceb: http://i.imgur.com/XcDSf.png
[16:56] <eroomde> successful day!
[16:59] <eroomde> that's with serial search which takes about 20 minutes per millisecond per sattelite on my core i5 machine
[16:59] <eroomde> :|
[16:59] <eroomde> so i think next job will be to implement parallel search
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[17:26] <nosebleedkt_> ok, now I have the whole container
[17:26] <Randomskk> eroomde: huh, you and jon both
[17:26] <nosebleedkt_> nothing is broken
[17:26] <Randomskk> not the same wedding I imagine
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[17:26] <Randomskk> nosebleedkt_: yay!
[17:26] <Randomskk> good job
[17:26] <nosebleedkt_> so in theory I can just buy a new balloon and some batteries and fly a new one
[17:26] <Randomskk> I missed the photos earlier (was at work), got the link handy?
[17:27] <nosebleedkt_> Randomskk: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.493992450614804.128626.259791880701530&type=3
[17:28] <Randomskk> oh wow, lovely
[17:28] <Randomskk> beautiful scenary
[17:28] <nosebleedkt_> :)
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[17:31] <nosebleedkt_> now, i consider the mission successful :p
[17:31] <Randomskk> totally!
[17:32] <nosebleedkt_> well after 3 years
[17:32] <nosebleedkt_> i made it
[17:32] <nosebleedkt_> you remember me when i first joined here
[17:32] <nosebleedkt_> didnt know anything
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[17:37] <fsphil> me neither :)
[17:37] <fsphil> in some ways I still don't :)
[17:37] <fsphil> at least, I know more about what I don't know than when I joined
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[17:40] <daveake> I know more about how much I don't know than I did when I joined :)
[17:40] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[17:41] <fsphil> that's what I meant, only I messed up that scentence :)
[17:41] <fsphil> arg
[17:41] Action: fsphil fails
[17:41] <nosebleedkt_> the ukhas list is only for UK mission?
[17:41] <Randomskk> no
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[17:41] <nosebleedkt_> can I join?
[17:42] <fsphil> totally
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[17:43] <nosebleedkt_> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records
[17:43] <zyp> say, if I were to launch anything from here (south coast of norway), what's the odds it would land anywhere I could recover it?
[17:43] <nosebleedkt_> here?
[17:43] <Randomskk> zyp: check the predictor ;)
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> zyp, yeah use the predictor, it will tell you where the flight will go
[17:44] <zyp> Randomskk, I did one time, it would end up way out in the sea
[17:44] <zyp> but how much does those winds change?
[17:44] <Dan-K2VOL> the predictions change a lot
[17:44] <Randomskk> yea a lot
[17:44] <Dan-K2VOL> also you can change your climb/descent speed and burst altitude
[17:44] <nosebleedkt_> how i include myself in http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records ?
[17:44] <daveake> edit it
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[17:44] <daveake> Create an account (link on the page) first
[17:45] <nosebleedkt_> i think i have account because i was writing the ublox stuff
[17:45] <daveake> there you go
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[17:45] <nosebleedkt_> but i dont recall it
[17:45] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[17:46] <zyp> oh, and the other problem would be lack of receivers
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> it depends on where it goes
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> convince your friends to set some up :-)
[17:47] <zyp> yeah, with the cheap sdr dongles that could probably be arranged
[17:48] <nosebleedkt_> ok
[17:48] <nosebleedkt_> i did it
[17:48] <nosebleedkt_> im 13 lol
[17:48] <nosebleedkt_> on arhab im 20th
[17:48] <Dan-K2VOL> nice nosebleed
[17:49] <fsphil> time I had a go at this height thingy :)
[17:49] <nosebleedkt_> :p
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[17:50] <zyp> maybe I should just assume mine would be unrecoverable, and focus on cheap :p
[17:51] <Dan-K2VOL> that's an idea too
[17:51] <zyp> but recovery seems like half the fun :p
[17:51] <fsphil> it is!
[17:51] <fsphil> but my last one was designed not to be recovered
[17:51] <nosebleedkt_> haha
[17:51] <Dan-K2VOL> ugh, well, I don't know what the terrain is like around the south of norway, but I'm tired of having payloads stuck in trees way out in the woods
[17:51] <zyp> no recovery = no need for parachute I guess
[17:52] <Dan-K2VOL> well, no that's not a good idea
[17:52] <Dan-K2VOL> you don't want to put a lump on some poor fisherman's head
[17:52] <zyp> I'm not afraid of trees as much as water
[17:52] <Dan-K2VOL> unless you make it really tiny
[17:52] <Dan-K2VOL> the Delorme Inreach is a nice floating satellite tracker
[17:52] <zyp> what's really tiny to you?
[17:53] <Dan-K2VOL> less than 200g?
[17:53] <zyp> I launced a meteorological balloon once, that payload was disposable without chute or anything
[17:53] <Dan-K2VOL> what would you be OK with falling on your head at 30mph/50km/h?
[17:54] <Dan-K2VOL> it's about protecting against damaging things on the ground, you can launch without a chute if you make it in a soft box
[17:55] <zyp> well, how heavy are your payloads?
[17:55] <Randomskk> not that relevant laws might require a parachute
[17:55] <Dan-K2VOL> 5kg
[17:56] <zyp> I believe the heaviest part will be the battery
[17:56] <Dan-K2VOL> or just make it light enough that the balloon scraps slow it down, like the pico payloads
[17:57] <zyp> I'm probably thinking along the lines of a pico payload
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> those are pretty exciting
[17:57] <fsphil> the last few pico launches have covered huge distances
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> the lighter we figure out how to make them, the more interesting things we can do
[17:58] <fsphil> I'm hoping to get one from here to england
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm quite proud of you guys for the pico work, it's really ground-breaking
[17:58] <zyp> it's just about making it small
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> and low power
[17:58] <zyp> I'm an electronics guy, so I don't see that as a problem
[18:01] <Dan-K2VOL> I've started doing balloon project consulting as a job now, and I've been sifting through all of the scientific literature (papers) I can find, and from all I can find, very lightweight payloads for long duration flight don't seem to have been done since the 1960s. (please correct me if I'm wrong!)
[18:02] <Dan-K2VOL> and you couldn't hardly do much back then with 200g
[18:02] <zyp> got any pics of the pico payloads anywhere?
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[18:02] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm sure on ukhas.org.uk there might be some
[18:02] <Dan-K2VOL> jcoxon, upu, and nigel have been working on them that I can recall, maybe others
[18:02] <zyp> I'm looking, but I haven't found any yet
[18:03] <Dan-K2VOL> http://ava.upuaut.net/
[18:03] <Dan-K2VOL> zyp what do you do for work?
[18:05] <zyp> embedded software
[18:05] <zyp> mostly lowlevel android stuff nowadays
[18:05] <Dan-K2VOL> neat
[18:05] <Dan-K2VOL> the Delorme Inreach pairs to android via bluetooth btw
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> you could use the android as a flight computer to send messages via Iridium
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> (wouldn't be lightweight in the least though)
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> however you'd have to hack the delorme bluetooth protocol, I've got it somewhat documented if you ever want to try it
[18:06] <zyp> I'm doing lower level stuff as hobby projects as well :p
[18:07] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/sTW8U.JPG <- here is the latest revision of my quadrotor controller board
[18:08] <Randomskk> pretty.
[18:08] <Dan-K2VOL> really, nice work
[18:08] <Randomskk> are you doing your own ESCs?
[18:08] <Randomskk> is that an xbee socket?
[18:08] <Dan-K2VOL> is that a bluetooth module?
[18:08] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[18:08] <zyp> Randomskk, not yet, I've been playing with writing ESC software for some other hardware, but nothing have come of it yet
[18:08] <Dan-K2VOL> and are you doing your own AHRS firmware?
[18:09] <Randomskk> is that an fpga or cpld?
[18:09] <Randomskk> presumably latter
[18:09] <Randomskk> and an F405 eh
[18:09] <Randomskk> they're fun
[18:09] <zyp> yes it's an xbee socket, no it's a gps module, yes I'm writing my own software and yes it's a cpld
[18:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Is that a flux capacitor?
[18:09] <Randomskk> this looks a lot like what I plan to do doing soonish
[18:09] <Randomskk> I started a quadcopter project ages back
[18:09] <Randomskk> and then university happened :(
[18:10] <Randomskk> zyp: my stm32f405 HAB flight computer: http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/6954487281/
[18:10] <zyp> I started during my final semester in university because I had lots of free time, then work happened :p
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone ever run into any of the professional science balloonists over in CNES or Geneva?
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> or germany
[18:11] <zyp> Randomskk, I believe I've seen it before
[18:11] <Randomskk> probably :D
[18:11] <zyp> how did it work out?
[18:11] <Randomskk> it worked
[18:11] <Randomskk> haven't had time to try doing cleverness with it yet
[18:11] <zyp> onboard radio also?
[18:11] <Randomskk> I wanna do live image transmission
[18:11] <Randomskk> yea
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> zyp are you experienced at doing IMU/AHRS firmware/motor control?
[18:11] <Randomskk> it has enough ram and cpu to do clever transmission stuff
[18:11] <Randomskk> but I also want to make a quadcopter real soon now
[18:11] <zyp> looks similar to what I would make
[18:11] <Randomskk> and both are fairly involved projects
[18:11] <Randomskk> and I have so little time. cri
[18:12] <zyp> Dan-K2VOL, depends on where you set the bar for experienced :p
[18:12] <Dan-K2VOL> have yours worked? :-P
[18:13] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/s7d0k.jpg <- somewhat :p
[18:14] <zyp> when I first started I hacked together something quick that was enough to get it flying, and then I started over to do it properly and keeps getting sidetracked with unrelated stuff
[18:14] <zyp> like writing my own usb stack from scratch :p
[18:15] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[18:16] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/mdVxb.JPG <- I also have some IMU experience from working with this
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[18:17] <zyp> it's a motion sensor that was my group's bachelor's project at uni
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> did you ever deal with trying to measure very slow rotation?
[18:18] <zyp> as in slower than drift induced by gyro bias? not really
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[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> thanks again to everyone
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> it still doesn't work but thank you all
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:38] <Jessica_Lily> hello lunar
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello Jessica_Lily
[18:38] <Jessica_Lily> how are you doing?
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> I'm OK thanks, and you?
[18:39] <Jessica_Lily> i'm okay too
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> nice to hear that
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[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> preparing for exams (molecular physics and so on) and at the same time trying to get the payload running
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[18:40] <Jessica_Lily> put the HAB stuff on the backburner while you do your exams?
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> hey nosebleedkt
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I think that is better
[18:41] <nosebleedkt> yo Lunar_Lander
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[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> Jessica_Lily, nosebleedkt flew his HAB last week
[18:42] <Jessica_Lily> ooo cool
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> and nosebleedkt you found it already, right?
[18:45] <nosebleedkt> and found it this week
[18:45] <nosebleedkt> :P
[18:45] <nosebleedkt> yes
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[18:45] <nosebleedkt> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.493992450614804.128626.259791880701530&type=1
[18:45] <nosebleedkt> enjoy!
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> awesome!
[18:46] <nosebleedkt> highest alt pic 38884 with olympus
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> COOL
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> you should correct the explaination beneath that picture
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> Mountain Olympus along with Katerini.
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> Altitude of 33.4km
[18:48] <nosebleedkt> its many with olympus
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> no I mean the 33.4
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> now I got it
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> now I found the max alt one
[18:50] <nosebleedkt> yes
[18:50] <nosebleedkt> :P
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> do you also have photos from the 0.3 MP camera?
[18:51] <nosebleedkt> yes
[18:51] <nosebleedkt> those grey ones
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:56] <natrium42> hi kevin
[18:56] <nosebleedkt> oh
[18:56] <nosebleedkt> natrium42!
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi natrium42
[18:58] <natrium42> hi nosebleedkt
[18:58] <natrium42> what's the news?
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> he flew to 38.8 km
[19:03] <nosebleedkt> natrium42 check my facebook
[19:03] <nosebleedkt> ;)
[19:03] <natrium42> yeah, very cool :D
[19:03] <nosebleedkt> got some kinky stuff for you
[19:03] <nosebleedkt> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.493992450614804.128626.259791880701530&type=3
[19:06] <natrium42> great pics! is that the mideteranian?
[19:06] <natrium42> £Å³Ç±Á·Ä®Á¹±!
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[19:08] <natrium42> nosebleedkt: which of those people is you?
[19:08] <nosebleedkt> the short one lol
[19:09] <nosebleedkt> with green
[19:09] <nosebleedkt> thats not mediteranian. its Aegean
[19:09] <nosebleedkt> and the 3 legs of chalkidiki
[19:09] <nosebleedkt> and some islands near turkey
[19:10] <natrium42> ah, great to see so much coast line from the air
[19:11] <natrium42> nosebleedkt: the one with the manly beard?
[19:12] <nosebleedkt> no
[19:12] <nosebleedkt> the short I am
[19:12] <nosebleedkt> in green blouze
[19:13] <nosebleedkt> and a small cigar in mouth
[19:13] <natrium42> ah
[19:13] <natrium42> sorry
[19:13] <nosebleedkt> ok
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[19:17] <natrium42> nosebleedkt: i thought all greek men wore beards
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[19:30] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: did you find your bug yet?
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[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> costyn, no not yet
[19:31] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: ok, so static temp sensor addressing didn't fix it
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> I thought if it is important that not just the GPS has a buffer
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> but the sensors too
[19:34] <costyn> ehmm
[19:36] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: I'm not much of a coder. I understand most of it, but not sure about the details
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> a friend of mine made a code last year
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> it read the BMP085, DS18B20 and HIH-4030, then made a string and sent it over the NTX2
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. it sent out "T = ..., P = ..., A = ..., D = ..., H = ..."
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> and at the top he had several buffers IIRC
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[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> what does daveake think? :)
[19:46] <danielsaul> "Duncan Saul" to Daniel on the UKHAS conf list? Didn't think about
[19:46] <danielsaul> that when I got my Dad to pay for that instead of paying me back in
[19:46] <danielsaul> Uhhhhh
[19:46] <danielsaul> Whooops
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:48] <jonsowman> good one
[19:48] <danielsaul> Stupid right click :(
[19:49] <nigelvh> Speaking of the conf. When you guys gonna have UKHAS - West"
[19:49] <nigelvh> I'd come to that one.
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> hey nigelvh
[19:49] <nigelvh> Howdy
[19:51] <Upu> come to this one
[19:51] <Upu> lol I'll get that fixed Daniel
[19:52] <nigelvh> You wanna help with my flight Upu?
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[19:52] <Upu> if I can assist sat on my arse here sure
[19:52] <nigelvh> Sure, sending money doesn't require getting up! Sounds like a plan!
[19:52] <Upu> lol
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu
[19:53] <Upu> hi Lunar
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> I got one more idea
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> can you see the backscroll?
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[19:58] <Upu> can you give me a 1 line tl;dr ?
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> what does tl;dr mean?
[19:58] <Upu> too long;didn't read
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:58] <nigelvh> too long didn't read
[19:59] <Upu> its basically me being an internet arsehole
[19:59] <nigelvh> His idea was give nigelvh money to come to the UKHAS conference.
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> when my friend from Slovenia made a "read sensor and broadcast values on NTX2"-code last year, he had buffers for the values in the program
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about that Upu nigelvh ?=
[20:09] <Upu> I don't understand what you mean ?
[20:09] <nigelvh> I think the statement is a little vague.
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> at the start of the program he like defined Buffers for the sensor values IIRC
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> maybe we need something like that
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> that the values are saved there before broadcasting
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[20:10] <nigelvh> Are you referencing global variables?
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea I think so
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I don't have the code on the PC at the moment, sorry
[20:12] <nigelvh> Generally I think of buffers as more of a FIFO or FILO thing. IE a temporary place to put a string of data before processing it, whereas a variable would be a place I'd store sensor data temporarily to do math on, transmit, or whatnot, before reading the sensor again and updating the value.
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[20:15] <nigelvh> So if you mean the sensor data gets put into a variable, then yes, that's common. I do that.
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> but it has to work otherwise I get desperate and then my head fails and I don't know, I would be really sad
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[20:31] <daveake> When your head fails, get another one. http://www.sadgeezer.com/Legacy/RedDwarf/4-5-05.jpg
[20:31] <jonsowman> :D
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:31] <jonsowman> and what do you think, spare head one?
[20:31] <Upu> new series...
[20:32] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7opdzX_4kE
[20:33] <jonsowman> :D
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[20:37] <mclane> Lunar: are you using Arduino? which micro (avr328)?
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, a mega
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> avr2560
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> in fact the pro mega 3.3
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> V
[20:41] <mclane> that has 8k of RAM; soyou should not have issues with stack overflows
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:42] <mclane> I had that on my mini (it has only 2k RAM)
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't get it, the code of other people looks similar to mine
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[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> I think I failed
[20:55] <kokey> it would help if I actually had a wire run to the SPI clock of the rfm22b
[20:55] <jonsowman> yes that tends to help
[20:56] <kokey> it's a wireless communications module, but not _that_ wireless
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[20:56] <kokey> hooray for actually having a tester
[20:56] <Ottomite> hello
[20:56] <kokey> it's not great, but 0v on that pin was a bit of a clue
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:58] <kokey> haha, ok that was not enough of a clue, can't read anything from the clock pin on the arduino anyway
[20:58] <kokey> but it did make me find the missing wire
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> I think I failed
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[21:09] <Randomskk> eroomde: https://twitter.com/radiomaru/status/228188160688021504/photo/1
[21:12] <eroomde> that's so the lifestyle to which I aspire
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> WTF? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225549/Hitler-coached-Germanys-football-team-McDonalds-arches-symbolise-remembrance-day-What-todays-children.html
[21:14] <LazyLeopard> It's The Mail. Don't expect balance...
[21:14] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: don't read the mail
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:14] <eroomde> it's shit and lies and nonsense and confusion
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:14] <Randomskk> anyone recommend any UK websites where I could buy a 2.4GHz RC transmitter?
[21:15] <LazyLeopard> It works as fire-lighters, but not as reading matter...
[21:15] <eroomde> if you go within 10m of a copy the universe becomes locally pre-enlightenment
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[21:15] <eroomde> Randomskk: sussex model centre are good
[21:15] <Randomskk> jonsowman and I used some Daily Mail to make paper mache once
[21:15] <eroomde> v good shop in person anyway
[21:16] <Randomskk> man, I forgot how expensive these things can be
[21:16] <Randomskk> hmm
[21:18] <BrainDamage> aren't most of those based in nrf24l01 chips ?
[21:18] <BrainDamage> on*
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[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, xD
[21:19] <Randomskk> maybe
[21:19] <Randomskk> they're 2.4GHz DSSS
[21:21] <Randomskk> http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=39761 so many controls!
[21:26] <eroomde> u'll be the coolest kid in college
[21:26] <Randomskk> :|
[21:26] <Randomskk> living in a house next year, it's fine
[21:26] <Randomskk> anyway my quadshot just shipped
[21:26] <Randomskk> after like a year since the kickstarter I guess
[21:26] <Randomskk> http://thequadshot.com/products/the-espresso
[21:26] <Randomskk> but "You will need your own Spektrum-compatible 2.4GHz R/C transmitter and two satellite receivers."
[21:26] <eroomde> where living?
[21:26] <Randomskk> fulbrooke rd
[21:27] <Randomskk> college are rennovating a few staircases in cripps, so offered incentives to groups of five willing to live in college houses that were previously on the private market
[21:27] <Randomskk> so lower rent, leave stuff over holidays, skip the ballot, etc
[21:27] <eroomde> nice#
[21:27] <Randomskk> seems nice enough
[21:27] <Randomskk> it's like 12 minutes further away from everything though
[21:28] <Randomskk> but it's also right next door to the selwyn/kings playing fields which are huge
[21:28] <Randomskk> so plenty of space to fly ^
[21:28] <Randomskk> however ^ needs at least the RC kit and possibly also something like a gopro
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[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> I think I failed
[21:31] <jcoxon> oh
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> I couldn't get the sensors with the GPS to run
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> even when I took the temperature code from your Atlas 3
[21:34] <jcoxon> random crashes?
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> no, the following happens
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> I print the GPS data and then the sensor data on the serial monitor
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> after a few cycles the DS18B20 just returns "0" and the BMP085 returns bogus values
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[21:36] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, what you need to do is to look at each individually
[21:36] <jcoxon> so ignore the BMP085
[21:36] <jcoxon> focus on the ds18b20 and gps
[21:36] <jcoxon> where is the code?
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1109029/
[21:38] <daveake> Lunar_Lander Have you done any of the things suggested yesterday? Like checking for buffer overflow? Like adding the new code part at a time? (e.g. add the DS18B20 but not the BMP)?
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> not yet, but I wanted to tell him of the problem too
[21:39] <daveake> Sure, but please do take the trouble to do these things after people take the trouble to check your code and make suggestions
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[21:41] <kokey> I'm glad I tried the ublox6 out first, it was easy to make work
[21:41] <kokey> though the arduino and the ublox6 was a bit too easy
[21:42] <kokey> now I'm having fun and games with the rfm22b
[21:43] <kokey> I think there might be a catch with wiring
[21:43] <kokey> I'm using upu's breakout, and I see stuff about the tx_ant pin
[21:43] <kokey> not sure if it's on the board
[21:43] <daveake> what's it doing wrong?
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[21:45] <kokey> it's doing nothing
[21:45] <kokey> I'm trying out the RF22 library on it and init() fails
[21:45] <daveake> Oh
[21:45] <jcoxon> sounds like a wiring issue
[21:45] <kokey> though there are quite a number of steps in 'init' so I'm not sure on which step it fails really
[21:45] <daveake> Connected to the right pins?
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[21:46] <kokey> well, I think so, but the labels are a bit different on the breakout that I'd expect
[21:46] <daveake> hmmm
[21:46] <daveake> might be a clue :)
[21:46] <kokey> there's a SDL and a SDI
[21:47] <kokey> ok, SDI makes sense, but SDL?
[21:47] <kokey> SCLK is SCK I figure
[21:47] <jcoxon> kokey, is SDN wired up correctly?
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[21:47] <jcoxon> that always gets me
[21:48] <kokey> ah, I forgot about that
[21:48] <daveake> :)
[21:48] <kokey> I didn't wire that one up at all
[21:48] <kokey> ooh, duh, it's right infront of me
[21:49] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:49] <jcoxon> night
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[21:49] <kokey> hell I packed it all away, but now I'm keen to give it another go
[21:49] <daveake> Nice when it's a simple one :)
[21:49] <kokey> well, I was missing the SCK wire completely earlier
[21:49] <kokey> that was easy too
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[21:58] <kokey> ok that didn't do the trick
[21:59] <daveake> Just been sorting papers and have found my rfm22b notes
[22:00] <daveake> On my breakout, I've got SDN, NIRQ (not needed), NSEL, SCK, SDI, SDO
[22:01] <daveake> On the Arduino, SCK=13, SDI=11,SDO=12,NSEL=10
[22:01] <daveake> Also SDN=5 but that could be anything
[22:01] <kokey> I've got GND, SDN, NIRQ, NSEL, SCLK, SDL and SDI
[22:01] <kokey> in that order
[22:02] <kokey> ok so yours say SD0 at the end
[22:02] <daveake> Order here down that side is GND SDN NIRQ NSEL SCK SDI SDO
[22:02] <kokey> SDL=SDI and SDI=SDO, heh
[22:03] <daveake> and another GND
[22:03] <daveake> Hmmm seems so
[22:03] Action: kokey swaps pins again
[22:03] <daveake> :)
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[22:08] <kokey> ok I think I've soldered pin 12 on the arduino pro mini badly
[22:08] <kokey> yes!
[22:08] <kokey> I just pressed really damn hard on it and I got a success
[22:08] <kokey> so that is it
[22:08] <kokey> I'll pack everything away, ready for bed
[22:09] <daveake> :)
[22:09] <daveake> stop on a high :)
[22:09] <kokey> indeed
[22:10] <kokey> ok so I got the main modules talking individually
[22:10] <kokey> yay
[22:10] <kokey> thanks for the help
[22:11] <daveake> np
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[22:35] <RocketBoy> yo
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[00:00] --- Thu Jul 26 2012