highaltitude.log.20120724

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[02:45] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pressure"
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[06:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Fwd: balloon Insurance"
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[06:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pressure"
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[07:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] Fwd: balloon Insurance"
[07:23] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "[UKHAS] HAB Design Considerations"
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[07:47] <KT5TK> Good morning! Is there anyone out there who speaks gnuradio?
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[07:48] <Darkside> KT5TK: #gnuradio
[07:48] <KT5TK> Hi Darkside
[07:48] <Darkside> you're more likely to get help in #gnuradio than here
[07:48] <Darkside> ask anyway, you never know
[07:49] <KT5TK> I'm thinking of a way to implement an AFSK 1200 modem with some g_block.
[07:49] <Darkside> ahh
[07:49] <Darkside> yeah dunno
[07:49] <KT5TK> Is there anything already
[07:49] <Darkside> theres no simple block
[07:49] <Darkside> i was looking at this a while ago
[07:50] <Darkside> i know gqrx has a AFSK1200 demodulator in it
[07:50] <Darkside> you might be able to pull something from it's source code
[07:50] <KT5TK> If I understand correctly, I'd need to demodulate FM again on the audio signal
[07:51] <KT5TK> I guess there is no gqrx for gr companion?
[07:51] <Darkside> no
[07:51] <Darkside> its a separate program
[07:51] <KT5TK> So I need to digg in the python code :(
[07:52] <Darkside> yeah
[07:52] <KT5TK> Well, let me have a look.
[07:52] <KT5TK> BTW have you seen PecanNut yet?
[07:53] <KT5TK> http://kt5tk.tkrahn.com/downloads/PecanNut/
[07:53] <KT5TK> It's just another mutant of microNut ;)
[07:54] <Darkside> oh lawd
[07:54] <Darkside> jeez
[07:54] <Darkside> got a lot more on it
[07:55] <Darkside> ooh ADF7012
[07:55] <KT5TK> PCBs are on the way back from Seeed
[07:55] <Darkside> are you doing APRS with that?
[07:56] <KT5TK> Yes, 1k2 AFSK, but maybe also 9k6 FSK
[07:56] <Darkside> niiiiiiiiiiiiiice
[07:56] <Darkside> output power?
[07:56] <KT5TK> ~300 mW I guess
[07:56] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] HAB Design Considerations"
[07:56] <Darkside> very nice
[07:57] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pressure"
[07:57] <KT5TK> Tnks, was heavily inspired by your stuff
[07:57] <Darkside> lots of long traces on th ebottom of the pcb though
[07:57] <KT5TK> Note, it's a directional coupler
[07:57] <Darkside> you sure you're not going to have rf issues?
[07:57] <KT5TK> Can be only sure when tested.
[07:58] <KT5TK> I was trying my best on the given space
[07:58] <Darkside> mm
[07:58] <KT5TK> Primary design is for 2m
[07:58] <Darkside> we ended up giving up on the 7012 idea
[07:58] <Darkside> since we could get the radiometrix modules for $60
[07:59] <Darkside> and it would have cost us way more than that in design time
[07:59] <KT5TK> Do you have a radiometrix dualbander?
[07:59] <Darkside> nope
[07:59] <Darkside> so we are limited to 1200 baud with that
[07:59] <Darkside> but that fine - we're only targeting APRS
[07:59] <fsphil> 9600 would be so nice
[07:59] <Darkside> and it doesn't need to be frequency agile either - the APRS network isn't agile
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[08:00] <KT5TK> Idea is to use APRS for telemetry and something like SSDV
[08:00] <KT5TK> on 70cm
[08:00] <KT5TK> GFSK
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[08:00] <Darkside> cool
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[08:01] <Darkside> i can do GFSK using the RFM22B boards at 100mW
[08:01] <Darkside> at custom bandwidths and baud rates
[08:01] <KT5TK> We'll see if there will be HF problems.
[08:01] <Darkside> the lack of microstrip will probably cause issues
[08:02] <KT5TK> Wider traces?
[08:02] <Darkside> well, proper impedance traces
[08:02] <Darkside> that depends on the board thickness
[08:03] <KT5TK> I've chosen 0.6mm
[08:03] <KT5TK> thickness
[08:03] <Darkside> wow
[08:04] <KT5TK> Any probs with that?
[08:04] <Darkside> nah
[08:04] <Darkside> just thin
[08:04] <KT5TK> The whole board is just 3.1 cm wide
[08:04] <zyp> well, distance to ground plane rather than thickness
[08:04] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:04] <KT5TK> So I hope to not have mechanical issues
[08:04] <Darkside> yeah don't bend the pcb
[08:05] <zyp> I had some RF stuff on a four layer board once, depth to ground plane for microstrip calculations were just 0.17mm or so
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[08:06] <Darkside> mm
[08:06] <Darkside> but yeah, the traces are too thin for proper microstrip on that board
[08:06] <Darkside> it may still wotk though
[08:06] <Darkside> build it and see how it goes
[08:06] <KT5TK> will do.
[08:06] <Darkside> if it works, i imight incorporate the radio part into the next micronut :-)
[08:07] <Darkside> if i can get hold of the Si571s
[08:08] <KT5TK> I put the Si571 only there to have the I2C lines available.
[08:08] <KT5TK> A normal VCXO should work for most cases.
[08:08] <Darkside> still, with the Si571 the board is frequency agile
[08:08] <Darkside> well
[08:08] <KT5TK> Si571 is just to have all options for testing
[08:09] <Darkside> mm
[08:09] <KT5TK> Remember the 7012 has a PLL
[08:09] <Darkside> yeah you'll need to have certain filters on the board
[08:09] <Darkside> you won't be able to make one board that runs on 2m and 70cm
[08:09] <Darkside> but you could make a board that works ofer all of 2m though
[08:10] <KT5TK> I still hope for 2m + 70 cm
[08:10] <KT5TK> Working on some tricks with the right dividers
[08:10] <Darkside> i thought the filters you need on the 7012 limit the range?
[08:10] <KT5TK> and a dual band filter
[08:11] <KT5TK> There are some tricks. Like the programmable internal capacitor
[08:12] <Darkside> cool
[08:13] <Darkside> you could have a switchable filter bank or something
[08:13] <Darkside> uses more room
[08:13] <KT5TK> ADF7012 datasheet p 13:
[08:13] <KT5TK> The varactor capacitance can be adjusted in software to increase
[08:13] <KT5TK> the effective VCO range by writing to the VA1 and VA2 bits in
[08:13] <KT5TK> the R register. Under typical conditions, setting VA1 and VA2
[08:13] <KT5TK> high increases the center frequency by reducing the varactor
[08:13] <KT5TK> capacitance by approximately 1.3 pF.
[08:13] <Darkside> oh not what i mean
[08:14] <Darkside> i mean you reprogram the Si571 to change the refernce clock
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[08:14] <Darkside> but you could do it in the 7012 as well i guess
[08:16] <KT5TK> Yes, but in any case the external Inductor is static. It can be compensated with the VA1 VA2 registers
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[08:18] <jcoxon> the google doodle is good today
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[08:18] <KT5TK> Will digg into py code. Let you know if I find the AFSK modem...
[08:19] <fsphil> so it is
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[08:24] <WillDuckworth> hey jcoxon - on your gumstix - how did you produce the rtty? was it waggling the gpio?
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[08:30] <jcoxon> through the sound card
[08:31] <jcoxon> couldn't get GPIO to go quick enough
[08:31] <WillDuckworth> that's what i thought
[08:31] <jcoxon> its the same issue as with the rPi
[08:32] <fsphil> does the gumstix have a uart?
[08:32] <jcoxon> yeah but i'm not sure how low you can get the baud rate
[08:32] <WillDuckworth> yep - was thinking of transposing rpi to that method on gumstix to compare
[08:32] <fsphil> true
[08:32] <fsphil> the rpi won't go below 300, although 300 works pretty well
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[08:34] <M0JSN> UpuWork: cool, what did he say?
[08:34] <UpuWork> that confused me :)
[08:34] <UpuWork> he is going to come back to me today
[08:34] <M0JSN> lol sorry
[08:35] <M0JSN> ah good, who did you speak to?
[08:35] <UpuWork> John Dale
[08:35] <UpuWork> said I could take the business to the US but I'd prefer to get them done in the UK
[08:35] <UpuWork> which seemed to strike a cord
[08:35] <UpuWork> anyway we shall see its not the first (4th actually) time he's said he'll get back to me
[08:36] <M0JSN> fair enough
[08:36] <M0JSN> fingers crossed then
[08:36] <M0JSN> :)
[08:42] <WillDuckworth> is that the resoldering upu?
[08:42] <UpuWork> new crystals for NTX2's
[08:43] <UpuWork> so we can get them onto different frequencies
[08:43] <WillDuckworth> ooo :)
[08:44] <UpuWork> and they should have better frequency stability as well
[08:44] <WillDuckworth> fingers crossed eh
[08:46] <Darkside> tbh i'd just use the RFM22Bs
[08:46] <Darkside> they work well, and don't drift as much as the NTX2s
[08:47] <Randomskk> well yea, that's kinda the point of getting the new crystal :P
[08:48] <UpuWork> RFM22B's are ok but their power output is dubious at best
[08:48] <Darkside> thats true
[08:48] <Darkside> just run them at 25mW :P
[08:48] <Darkside> it'll be about 10mW output power, rite?
[08:48] <fsphil> they've also been known to self destruct
[08:49] <Darkside> none of mine have
[08:49] <Darkside> i've built.. 5 payloads using them now?
[08:49] <Darkside> never had a problem
[08:50] <WillDuckworth> do you push up to 100mW Darkside?
[08:51] <Darkside> nah
[08:51] <Darkside> i run at 25mW
[08:51] <UpuWork> did UAVA drift much on the last flight ? I put insulation under the actual module against the crystal and around the module
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[08:52] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/NTX2%20Insulation/IMG_0665.JPG
[08:53] <Darkside> i think our cutdown payloads have drifted by maybe 2-3KHz
[08:53] <Darkside> also its easier to replace the crystal on the RFM22Bs
[08:53] <Darkside> its just a 30MHz crystal (i think)
[08:53] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] HAB Design Considerations"
[08:53] <Darkside> just replace it with a better spec SMD crystal
[08:53] <Upu> I think my connection at work is broken
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[08:54] <Upu> they aren't desperately expensive when they finally quote for them
[08:54] <Darkside> still, you can get a 30MHZ smd crystal for not much
[08:54] <Darkside> probably <$1
[08:55] <Darkside> and you get frequency agility out of it
[08:55] <UpuWork2> true, we'll see what the come back with
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[08:59] Nick change: UpuWork2 -> UpuWork
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[09:00] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] HAB Design Considerations"
[09:01] <fsphil> most tempting part of the rfm22b is the uplink
[09:01] <Darkside> yep
[09:01] <Darkside> add in a little bit of a listen period every few sentences
[09:02] <Darkside> and voila - uplink
[09:03] <Darkside> now we need a project to generate arbitrary GMSK packets that can be transmitted using a normal radio
[09:03] <Darkside> as at the moment i have to use pre-recorded packets
[09:03] <Darkside> shit, i need to write a talk about this, don't i
[09:03] <WillDuckworth> yep
[09:03] <WillDuckworth> do it
[09:04] <Darkside> well i'm booked in to talk at the conference
[09:04] <Darkside> lol
[09:04] <Darkside> also LIVE DEMO
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[09:04] <eroomde> still doesn;t help us in the uk with the license/upink power issue
[09:05] <eroomde> which is, to me, the big stumbling block
[09:05] <Darkside> nah
[09:05] <Darkside> i dont think it is
[09:05] <Darkside> "hello, this is M/VK5QI running a data link test with my friend in INSERT TOWN HERE"
[09:05] <Darkside> "BBLELELELELELLEELLELEEBOOP"
[09:05] <eroomde> yes indeed
[09:05] <Darkside> if it just happens that a balloon heard it, well, thats not my problem
[09:06] <Darkside> do you *really* think that ofcom are going to call you out on it?
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[09:06] <daveake> Opear
[09:06] <eroomde> no, but doing that is still called 'fraud'
[09:06] <daveake> sorry
[09:06] <eroomde> even if you can get away with it
[09:07] <Darkside> if you're licensed to transmit on that band, who cares
[09:07] <Darkside> its not your problem that somehting else heard it
[09:07] <Darkside> the regs are there to stop you interfering with other services
[09:07] <Darkside> if you are showing due diligence in avoiding interference, then there is no problem
[09:08] <eroomde> Darkside: it's sweet and touching that you think that
[09:08] <Darkside> and the cutdown is only really meant to be used as a last resort thing
[09:08] <eroomde> but it's also irrelevant legally
[09:08] <eroomde> now i agree with you about the spirit of what we're doing, completely
[09:08] <Darkside> there should be a discussion about this with the RSGB
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[09:08] <Laurenceb_> Please be advised that due to a worldwide shortage of Liquid Helium the University’s supply will be affected within the next two weeks.
[09:08] <Laurenceb_> eeek
[09:08] <eroomde> but all the nice things you say are neither here nor there when you look at thwta the license does or doesn;t allow
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[09:09] <eroomde> thwht/what
[09:09] <Darkside> eroomde: we have flown unlicenced crossband *repeaters*
[09:09] <Laurenceb_> were running out
[09:09] <Darkside> the WIA board were present when we did this
[09:09] <Laurenceb_> http://www.axio.ms/projects/stm32-241/chopped.jpg
[09:09] <Laurenceb_> ^lulz
[09:09] <daveake> Less running out and more profit-making I suspect
[09:09] <daveake> Effect is the same though
[09:10] <eroomde> Darkside: you're in australia
[09:10] <eroomde> it's not relevant to us
[09:10] <Darkside> well yes, you wouldn't be able to fly a repeater
[09:10] <Darkside> but running a slightly higher pwoer uplink on the ground? i dont think its a problem
[09:10] <Darkside> also, i have sucessfulty uplinked using 25mW
[09:10] <Darkside> 10mW with a yagi is very possible
[09:10] <eroomde> Darkside: honestly nothing you're saying makes any sense
[09:10] <Darkside> you have to account for drift, which means having another receiver alongside
[09:11] <eroomde> i don;t mean that in a rude way
[09:11] <eroomde> ]but saying things like 'Darkside> but running a slightly higher pwoer uplink on the ground? i dont think its a problem' is just not adding anything
[09:11] <eroomde> it's not covered by the license
[09:11] <Darkside> then run the uplink at 10mW and use a yagi on the ground
[09:11] <eroomde> it doesn't matter what your opinion of the rule is
[09:11] <eroomde> it's a stupid rule
[09:11] <eroomde> but it's unambiguous
[09:11] <Darkside> it sure it. maybe a UK amateur radio operator should start a dialogue with the RSGB
[09:12] <eroomde> yes agreed
[09:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.axio.ms/projects/stm32-241/programming_cm0.jpg
[09:12] <Darkside> and maybe get some conversation going with ofcom
[09:12] <Darkside> until then, either use 10mW, or use the other frequency that navrac used
[09:13] <gonzo_> the rule is to stop broadcasting
[09:13] <Darkside> the rfm22b receiver is quite sensitive. once you account for frequency drift, 10mW would be enough.
[09:13] <eroomde> but rsgb have no power for that kind of thing, they can just write letters to ofcom
[09:14] <Darkside> i'm interested to know why the no airborne amateur radio stuff exists
[09:14] <Darkside> i guess its something to do with population density and frequency reuse
[09:14] <eroomde> i might see if we can get an NoV as a start
[09:15] <Darkside> i'll have to make sure to do all my demos at 10mW...
[09:15] <eroomde> cos then we can keep using the same kind of uplinks we used back in 2009 not particularly legally
[09:15] <eroomde> 09:11 < Darkside> then run the uplink at 10mW and use a yagi on the ground
[09:15] <eroomde> 10mW erp
[09:15] <Darkside> wat.
[09:15] <eroomde> they've thought of everything
[09:15] <Darkside> are you goddamn serious
[09:15] <eroomde> yes
[09:15] <Darkside> what a stupid fucking law.
[09:15] <jcoxon> language
[09:16] <Darkside> apologies for the french
[09:16] <eroomde> well you can't just specify a power really can you
[09:16] <Darkside> sure you can, they do for other things
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[09:17] <M0JSN> lemo connectors are amazing
[09:17] <M0JSN> :D
[09:17] <jcoxon> we could build a distributed uplink system...
[09:17] <eroomde> i used to get crap for liking good connectors
[09:18] <M0JSN> lol
[09:18] <M0JSN> i don't care, these are great
[09:18] <daveake> You're amongst like-minded people here
[09:18] <eroomde> well you can have 500mW on 868Mhz
[09:18] <eroomde> which helps with uplinks
[09:19] <Darkside> whats the one navrac used
[09:20] <jcoxon> 458 is 500mhz from ground for telecommand
[09:20] <Darkside> ugh
[09:20] <Darkside> then you can't track drift
[09:21] <jcoxon> navrac didn't do badly though
[09:21] <Darkside> his payload didn't get cold
[09:21] <jcoxon> there were a number of issues with the ground setup etc
[09:21] <Darkside> doesn't matter
[09:21] <Darkside> i've seen drift on my flights
[09:21] <Darkside> it may be possible to transmit a long burst and have the AFC kick in
[09:21] <Darkside> something to test
[09:22] <Darkside> just repeat the packet a number of times
[09:22] <gonzo_> the no-airborne limitation is just the same restriction that is on most RT licences. Basically only a/c RT kit can be used in a/c
[09:22] <Darkside> RT?
[09:23] <gonzo_> for special stull like video downlinks for TV work etc they have to go jump through hoops to have it all approved
[09:23] <gonzo_> radio telegrAPHY
[09:23] <fsphil> Darkside, you can use higher power on the ground if you're transmitting as an amateur
[09:23] <jcoxon> fsphil, well we aren't sure of that
[09:23] <Darkside> fsphil: but the law says no transmissions to airborne objects
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[09:23] <Darkside> or for airborne use
[09:23] <Darkside> i'm still going with "its not my problem an airborne receiver heard it"
[09:23] <Darkside> and that you're transmitting a test
[09:23] <fsphil> I mean just for a demo
[09:24] <jcoxon> for the demo we can stick to 10mW
[09:24] <jcoxon> which is licence exempt
[09:24] <fsphil> yep, no need for more
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[09:24] <jcoxon> no issues there
[09:24] <fsphil> ooh I can apply for an NoV now
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[09:26] <Darkside> but yeah
[09:26] <Darkside> can someone link me to the laws please
[09:26] <eroomde> it's a big pain
[09:26] <gonzo_> what NoV are you after fsphil?
[09:26] <eroomde> and as i said we squarely ignored it for our uplink
[09:27] <fsphil> airborne operation gonzo_
[09:27] <gonzo_> the UK AR licence darkside?
[09:27] <jcoxon> could we just do multiple tx' with a bit of shift in freq for each
[09:27] <jcoxon> to catch the drift
[09:27] <eroomde> but if it's going to become widespread, a legal solution (just like we stick to 10mW for downlink) is an avenue worth properly exhausting before we go mainstream
[09:27] <Darkside> gonzo_: well, the part that talks about airborn stuff
[09:27] <craag> Here's the UK AR License: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CGIQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fservices.ofcom.org.uk%2Famateur-terms.pdf&ei=b2oOUOOFC8iY0QX7jYCQAg&usg=AFQjCNGDEpA5r98Dlh1uilpMHSRuU1nZQA&sig2=ZrQvY9Iw96j1LI-UJAWAlA
[09:27] <jcoxon> or how about a crystal oven - worked well with the ntx2
[09:27] <craag> frickin google: https://services.ofcom.org.uk/amateur-terms.pdf
[09:27] <fsphil> I'd like to try and get something simple, an NoV for 25mw for example
[09:27] <fsphil> or maybe low power on 2m
[09:28] <Darkside> 25mW power, before antenna
[09:28] <jcoxon> rfm22b has a temp sensor onboard already
[09:28] <jcoxon> a PID controller wouldn't be difficult
[09:28] <eroomde> well 25mw is only like 4dB gain. it would be nice if we could get 100
[09:28] <Darkside> jcoxon: i think the AFC stuff is worth looking into
[09:28] <eroomde> that actually starts to allow some things that were not on the cards before
[09:28] <Darkside> the rfm22b does have AFC, just need to work out how to use it
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[09:29] <gonzo_> darkside: the remote control section (10) is all based around the idea of controliong a transmitting station. So rf/internet connection of your own station.
[09:29] <eroomde> the tim6 ublox modules will output a 10mhz square wave, which you might be able to inject into something on the rfm?
[09:29] <Darkside> gonzo_: its not rmeote control
[09:29] <eroomde> to provide a bang-on ref
[09:29] <Darkside> eroomde: 30MHz reference
[09:29] <gonzo_> there is not reference to remote control of other kit, like model control etc
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[09:30] <Darkside> i'm talking specifrically about airborne operation
[09:30] <jcoxon> licence exempt stuff is in IR2030
[09:30] <Darkside> not license excempt
[09:30] <Darkside> i'm looking specificallt for amateur radio + airborne
[09:30] <Darkside> not remote control, just airborne
[09:31] <craag> Darkside: Search for 'airborne' in the ofcom link I sent.
[09:32] <Darkside> k
[09:32] <gonzo_> 9(3) says you may not install/operate in any aircraft
[09:32] <Darkside> Without prejudice to Clause 1 of this Licence, the Licensee shall not establish or use
[09:32] <Darkside> the Radio Equipment in any Aircraft or other Airborne Vehicle.
[09:32] <Darkside> damn
[09:32] <Darkside> but.
[09:32] <gonzo_> but this is all based areound the idea of the AR TX being in the aircraft
[09:32] <Darkside> you're not transmitting in the air
[09:32] <Darkside> its just receiving
[09:32] <Darkside> and receiving is not illegal
[09:33] <Darkside> transmitter is used within the ISM band spec
[09:33] <Darkside> receiver is just that.. a receiver
[09:33] <Darkside> and the transmitter on the ground is an amateur radio experimental transmitter
[09:33] <gonzo_> correct, but then another clause says you can only tx to licenced AR stations you have established comms with
[09:33] <gonzo_> will find the section
[09:33] <Darkside> ahh
[09:34] <craag> See 11(4) under Messages, I think this is relevant.
[09:34] <gonzo_> 11(4) is the sect
[09:34] <Darkside> hrmm
[09:34] <gonzo_> ah, snap!
[09:35] <Darkside> thats annoying
[09:36] <fsphil> only exception is in an emergency
[09:36] <gonzo_> so TXing to another station that is rxed by a HAB as an 'unintended consequence' is an option, but is being cheeky
[09:36] <Darkside> mm
[09:37] <gonzo_> (the sort of cheeky that could result in a fine and black mark against HABing)
[09:37] <craag> But then if 'they' ask why, out of interest, you told the other amateur to cut himself down??!
[09:38] <Darkside> mm
[09:38] <Darkside> annoying laws
[09:38] <Darkside> in australia theres nothing mentioned about airborne operstion at all
[09:38] <gonzo_> you were testing the transmission for the day when an uplink would be considered legal
[09:39] <Darkside> hah
[09:39] <gonzo_> actually, it would be interedting to request an NoV for txing to a HAB
[09:39] <Darkside> yup
[09:39] <JamesBurton> Have i choose this right the gps , Radio Module , Arduino for buying ( http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=62 , http://store.arduino.cc/eu/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_12&products_id=74 , http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68 )
[09:39] <gonzo_> I understand that in the IS, chatting from your HH in a light a/c is fine too
[09:40] <Darkside> gonzo_: IS?
[09:40] <WillDuckworth> US#
[09:40] <gonzo_> I suspect that asking for an NoV in the 70cm band could be slowm, as AR is the 2ndry user.
[09:41] <gonzo_> rr US. The joys of tryping over vnc
[09:41] <gonzo_> it's gone before I see the typo's
[09:41] <jcoxon> JamesBurton, certainly those would all work together
[09:41] <jcoxon> it won't be just a matter of just plugging them together
[09:41] <jcoxon> but not too difficult
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[09:42] <JamesBurton> jcoxon : this guide for setting up http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[09:43] <jcoxon> yes thats very good thing to follow
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[09:45] <JamesBurton> jcoxon : gps , radio module , arduino for the box
[09:45] <JamesBurton> is it complete
[09:45] <jcoxon> JamesBurton, thats a good place to start
[09:45] <jcoxon> you'll need a antenna for the radio
[09:45] <jcoxon> and a powersupply
[09:46] <JamesBurton> were do you buy the antenna and powersupply
[09:46] <JamesBurton> *
[09:47] <jcoxon> you'll have to make the antenna
[09:47] <JamesBurton> what wire to make the antenna
[09:48] <JamesBurton> copper
[09:48] <jcoxon> JamesBurton, my suggestion is you take it in steps
[09:49] <jcoxon> so first get the arduino and the radio
[09:49] <jcoxon> get that working
[09:49] <jcoxon> then get the next bit
[09:50] <JamesBurton> what about the power 5v
[09:50] <jcoxon> lithium energizers are my suggestion
[09:51] <JamesBurton> were do you the 2 x 22k resistors 1 x 10k resistor 1x 4.7K resistor and the build board
[09:51] <JamesBurton> buy
[09:52] <jcoxon> http://www.oomlout.co.uk/
[09:53] <JamesBurton> jcoxon : thank you for your help
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[10:09] <kokey> who maintains the wiki page about the rfm22 code?
[10:10] <fsphil> anyone who wants to, it's a wiki :)
[10:10] <kokey> I think it needs to specify that the code samples use jcoxon's library and not one of the other two rfm libraries out there
[10:11] <jcoxon> that probably needs an update
[10:11] <kokey> it had me confused for a while last night
[10:11] <jcoxon> anyway
[10:11] <Darkside> mm i just use the RF22 library
[10:11] <jcoxon> i've stopped using the method in it :-p
[10:11] <Darkside> eve though it's bulky
[10:12] <kokey> Darkside: ah, cool, I might give that a go, it looks pretty good
[10:13] <kokey> though I'm keen to just go for anything 'known to work' first just to make sure I got my soldering and wiring right
[10:17] <Darkside> oh
[10:17] <Darkside> well, i use the rf22 lib to set the radio up
[10:18] <Darkside> but then i start twiddlign registers to do the RTTY modulation
[10:21] <kokey> ah ok, I think it should be fairly easy for me to test then, I don't need RTTY working for that part at least
[10:21] <Darkside> well you can get it to continuous carrier mode
[10:21] <Darkside> then you can just listen to see if its transmitting
[10:26] <kokey> I'll try the lucky route first, set continuous carrier mode, then check with gnuradio using the rtl-sdr if it shows on the fft
[10:27] <kokey> depending on how frustrating it gets, I'll order a receiver of some sorts
[10:27] <Darkside> mm
[10:27] <Darkside> there isn't much easy to use receiver stuff for OSX yet
[10:27] <kokey> I think with some luck I can get the AOR AR8000 for just over 100GBP
[10:28] <Darkside> mm
[10:28] <kokey> yeah it's rather tricky on OSX
[10:28] <Darkside> theres a few options
[10:28] <Darkside> ywah because gqrx has the silly pulseaudio dependency
[10:28] <Darkside> when it should just be using gnuradio's audio sink
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[10:29] <kokey> I got gnuradio working (after spending a day upgrading OSX, upgrading xcode, and redoing macports, and fiddling) and I can do narrowband FM now
[10:29] Action: daveake looks around
[10:29] <daveake> Ah, sfe :)
[10:29] <daveake> safe
[10:29] <kokey> I got gr-baz compiled but the osmo one wants more gnuradio stuff compiled
[10:29] <kokey> daveake: yeah he left 40 mins ago
[10:30] <daveake> don't know *what* you mean :D
[10:30] <UpuWork> haha
[10:31] <daveake> My faith in the ability for people to do their research and then ask sensible questions was restored when I read the mailing list this morning
[10:31] <kokey> yeah dude that sort of thing happens with fame, the fans
[10:31] <daveake> lol
[10:31] <daveake> I'll do a signing session at the conf then :p
[10:31] <Randomskk> :D
[10:31] <UpuWork> haha
[10:31] <Randomskk> "will you sign my balloon?"
[10:31] <daveake> lol
[10:32] <UpuWork> so happening
[10:32] <kokey> Darkside: well the perfomance of gnuradio on osx natively as opposed to through linux under vmware has lead me to want to persist with that route a little longer now
[10:33] <kokey> so I'll probably see if I can modify jonsowman's RTTY grc to work with gr-baz
[10:33] <kokey> and I have an audio jack to jack cable ready, but it should be simple to reroute audio inside of the mac
[10:35] <Darkside> kokey: hrm
[10:36] <Darkside> there's a RTTY demodulator GRC?
[10:36] <Darkside> link!
[10:36] <kokey> one sec...
[10:37] <kokey> < jonsowman> it's at http://hexoc.com/u/rtl-rtty.tar if you do, anyway
[10:37] <kokey> that tar file is actually a tgz
[10:38] <Darkside> ok
[10:39] <kokey> it relies on the osmo sdr which I can't get compiled on osx yet
[10:39] <Darkside> hrm
[10:39] <Darkside> ohhh
[10:39] <Darkside> its a SSB demodulator
[10:39] <Darkside> which you feed into fldigi
[10:39] <Darkside> right
[10:40] <Darkside> it hought they were doing the FSK demodulation in gnuradion itself
[10:40] <Darkside> since it can supposedly do that
[10:40] <kokey> ah yeah, no it doesn't do that bit
[10:41] <kokey> yet ;-)
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[10:53] <Laurenceb> eroomde: your altimeter, i guess optical or ultrasound wont work too well
[10:53] <kokey> will be an impressive ultrasound setup if it did
[10:53] <Laurenceb> maybe frequency swept technique
[10:59] <Laurenceb> ntx2 -> antenni and mixer
[10:59] <Laurenceb> then give it a frequency ramp
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[11:02] <Laurenceb> or maybe a modified tx2
[11:03] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:03] <Laurenceb> tx2 fed a 100khz sin wave from an stm32f4
[11:03] <Laurenceb> *sine
[11:03] <Laurenceb> drive the antenni directly and also drive a mixer that has the other input from the antenni
[11:04] <Laurenceb> have dc block on the mixer output and stick the signal into the stm32
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[11:04] <eroomde> Laurenceb: i have noticed you have a funny habit
[11:04] <eroomde> i will suggest something
[11:04] <eroomde> you will say that i'm doing it wrong
[11:05] <eroomde> i will persist any explaining what my idea is
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[11:05] <eroomde> a day or two later, you will present back to me as your suggestion the very thing i suggested
[11:05] <kokey> Laurenceb is your manager at work? ;-)
[11:05] <Randomskk> hah
[11:05] <eroomde> look at 22:16
[11:05] <eroomde> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20120723.html
[11:06] <Laurenceb> :P
[11:06] <Laurenceb> ok
[11:07] <Laurenceb> i was just wondering if sin not triangle would work
[11:07] <Laurenceb> *sine
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[11:07] <Laurenceb> it would need some funky dsp
[11:08] <Laurenceb> i guess it depends what the transmitter phase noise looks like
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[11:09] <Laurenceb> with a radiometrix tx2, 5cm is 45Hz
[11:10] <Laurenceb> but you wont want to go to 0 distance
[11:10] <Laurenceb> and a coil of coax going to the antenni would help
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[11:10] <Laurenceb> meter or two of coax and you can get 1KHz away from dc right away
[11:11] <Laurenceb> and 30m is still less than 100khz, so easy to digitise and process on a stm32
[11:13] <Laurenceb> i think this is how rf guru guy buit his landing radar
[11:14] <Laurenceb> Matjaž Vidmar
[11:14] <Laurenceb> is the man
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[11:18] <Hix> boo
[11:18] <daveake> bah
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[11:24] <WillDuckworth> http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
[11:24] <WillDuckworth> laurenceb ^
[11:24] <Laurenceb> i know
[11:25] <Laurenceb> the origional from Matjaž is way cooler
[11:25] <Laurenceb> built in late 80s iirc
[11:25] <WillDuckworth> yep - maybe another project another day......
[11:25] <WillDuckworth> then no cocom limits
[11:26] <Laurenceb> you can do it much more easily now
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[11:26] <Laurenceb> sige frontend and stm32f4
[11:26] <Laurenceb> few square cm of pcb
[11:27] <Laurenceb> or an e4000 for that matter
[11:27] <WillDuckworth> hmmm - interested
[11:27] <kokey> heh, I first didn't realise that wasn't a 555 timer or something, but an fpga
[11:28] <Laurenceb> Matjaž used discreet dip logic
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[11:29] <Laurenceb> cuz thats how he rides
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[11:32] <zyp> Laurenceb, how did your sdr-gps work out?
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[11:33] <Laurenceb> i have had time to start on firmware
[11:33] <Laurenceb> got it talking over usb and running chibios
[11:34] <Laurenceb> adn ive written some asm routines
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[11:34] <Laurenceb> i need to look at the current state of opensource gps libs
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[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Oooh!
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[11:37] <SpeedEvil> What's the state of that - been largely disconnected from the net for annoying random reasons.
[11:38] <Randomskk> there are many open source GPS solution solving libraries?
[11:39] <Laurenceb> hallam and fnobel have been working on some stuff
[11:40] <Laurenceb> but i have loads of work to do atm
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[11:42] <ferfe> hi
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[12:10] <WillDuckworth> anyone seen nigeys around recently?
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[12:11] <UpuWork> no he's started playing DayZ
[12:11] <Darkside> heh
[12:11] <Darkside> i have him on skype
[12:11] <Darkside> well, he isn't online atm
[12:11] <WillDuckworth> ah - shame - i've mailed him about the conf
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[13:28] <chrisstubbs> Hi guys, the UKHAS.org.uk website seems to be down
[13:29] <craag> mm, down for me too.
[13:29] <craag> 504 Gateway
[13:30] <chrisstubbs> not too much of a problem, got my NTX2 through the post today, managed to find a copy of UPU's arduino instructions on his site though
[13:31] <craag> Great. Good luck!
[13:31] <UpuWork> 1 sec I'll fix ukhas
[13:31] <fsphil> need a hammer?
[13:32] <craag> and its up..
[13:32] <LazyLeopard> Uh oh. Here, have some neutron absorbing control rods!
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[13:45] <kokey> *** PROBLEM - running Nagios ***
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[14:03] <chrisstubbs> Hi guys, my radio is absolutley useless, wont work at AM mode at 434 mhz, what are my options?
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[14:04] <griffonbot> Received email: PhilipM "Re: [UKHAS] HAB Design Considerations"
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[14:05] <gonzo_> why do you want AM?
[14:06] <fsphil> you're after either USB or LSB modes
[14:06] <gonzo_> (suppose SSB is technically an AM mode, but not in the context of this discussion)
[14:06] <fsphil> it's 1/3 of an AM mode :)
[14:07] <gonzo_> the useful 1/3
[14:07] <gonzo_> what is y9our rx chrisstubbs
[14:08] <chrisstubbs> Your going to laugh, it was from radioshack many years ago, "Realistic PRO-2021"
[14:09] <fsphil> I giggled, but only at the name
[14:10] <fsphil> rigpix says it can only do AM and FM
[14:11] <chrisstubbs> i just bought it when i was playing around with my ebay FM 433mhz transmitters, i dont suppose anyone lives in/near chelmsford, essex?
[14:11] <fsphil> many people do I imagine
[14:12] <fsphil> but I am not among them
[14:12] <gonzo_> Depends how technically minded you are and what other kit you have
[14:13] <gonzo_> ideally , but a radio that is is spec'ed for SSB on 434meg. Could be an amareur set like FT817 or FT790
[14:14] <gonzo_> get a receiver, IC-R7000 or similar
[14:14] <chrisstubbs> im very tempted to go out and buy a half decent one, will i be able to get anything at least useable for £50? (student budget)
[14:14] <fsphil> the FT790 is possibly the cheapest but you'll have a challange finding one
[14:14] <fsphil> they do pop up on ebay from time to time
[14:14] <gonzo_> A USB dongle receiver, like the FCD or one of the cheapo DVB donguls
[14:15] <gonzo_> the dvb dongles are about £20, but limited performance
[14:15] <gonzo_> FunCubeDongle (FCD) are just over £100, not bad little units
[14:16] <gonzo_> do you have any sort of HF receiver that will do SSB?
[14:17] <chrisstubbs> Nope, all i have is this "realistic" thing and a normal FM radio, i do have a usb freeview tuner, could that be hacked up to do it?
[14:17] <Darkside> nope
[14:17] <fsphil> well the rtl-sdr is a usb freeview tuner
[14:18] <Darkside> but not all usb freeview tuners are rtl-sdr capable
[14:18] <fsphil> indeed
[14:18] <fsphil> so, maybe -- but probably not
[14:18] <fsphil> worth checking though
[14:19] <chrisstubbs> I will take a look, thanks :)
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[14:38] <upix> Good day
[14:38] <fsphil> hiya upix
[14:39] <upix> I can't seem to find fldigi message description/protocol
[14:39] <upix> I think I saw it on ukhas
[14:40] <fsphil> this? http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[14:42] <upix> ah yes
[14:42] <upix> thank you
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[14:44] <Dan-K2VOL> good day all
[14:44] <craag> Is there any deadline to sign up to the conference?
[14:44] <craag> I'd like to come along, but can't commit yet.
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[14:46] <chrisstubbs> Will this radio work with the radiometric NTX2 434.650? http://www.maplin.co.uk/psr282-200-channel-scanner-35695
[14:46] <Darkside> no
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[14:47] <chrisstubbs> Didnt think so :(
[14:48] <UpuWork> chrisstubbs for testing use a SDR
[14:48] <UpuWork> just get an EZCAP, if you paypal me £15 I'll send you one
[14:48] <UpuWork> + postage
[14:48] <UpuWork> not got the E4000 in though
[14:49] <UpuWork> but for what we do its fine
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[14:51] <chrisstubbs> And the ezcap will work with dl-fldigi?
[14:51] <UpuWork> yep
[14:51] <Darkside> well
[14:51] <Darkside> yeah
[14:52] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[14:52] <UpuWork> it does work for testing
[14:52] <UpuWork> whether we can use it for real tracking I'll come back to you
[14:52] <craag> I've had good results with mine.
[14:53] <craag> Got the Pi-TV with just a 70cm j-pole from Southampton.
[14:54] <UpuWork> there you go
[14:55] <chrisstubbs> Wow, well we will have a look into using the ezcap then, would have been nice to get it working today but not alot we can do right now without a radio
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[14:56] <kokey> ooh, only noticed this today... http://cgit.osmocom.org/cgit/rtl-sdr/tree/src/rtl_fm.c
[14:58] <kokey> and it's full of goodness
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[15:14] <WillDuckworth> is E4000 a 'better' one to use?
[15:14] <Darkside> for 70cm, probably won't make much difference
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[15:14] <WillDuckworth> what are its advantages? - wider range?
[15:14] <Darkside> yeah, e4000 covers a far wider range
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[15:14] <UpuWork> You won't get many E4000 ones now
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[15:14] <UpuWork> as the company that makes them went bust
[15:14] <UpuWork> but stick one of Darksides filters in front and it makes no difference anyway
[15:15] <WillDuckworth> is e4000 = RTL2832U ?
[15:17] <UpuWork> no
[15:17] <UpuWork> E4000 is the tuner that sits in front of the RTL2832U
[15:17] <WillDuckworth> the magic filters - they seemed to work well :)
[15:17] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/IMG_0693.JPG
[15:17] <UpuWork> top has a FC00013 tuner bottom an E4000
[15:17] <UpuWork> but the RTl chip is the same
[15:17] <UpuWork> note the lack of ESD diode on both
[15:18] <WillDuckworth> roger
[15:18] <craag> When can we get hold of one of the Habamps btw?
[15:19] <Darkside> when upu makes them
[15:19] <Darkside> :P
[15:19] <UpuWork> they are made
[15:19] <UpuWork> I wanted to test them with a real flight
[15:19] <Darkside> i design, upu builds
[15:19] <UpuWork> I might just start shipping them out
[15:19] <WillDuckworth> groovy
[15:20] <UpuWork> fsphil and Daveake have one
[15:20] <UpuWork> and I have one so will advise when someone launches
[15:20] <craag> Awesome.
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[15:20] <UpuWork> I've made 10 up, got the PCB's for the rest
[15:21] <upix_> Habamps?
[15:21] <UpuWork> yeah
[15:21] <craag> Have you configured them for external power or bias?
[15:21] <UpuWork> well thats your choice, I've made them up without the power bits on
[15:21] <UpuWork> so I'll be mailing people asking how you want it powered
[15:22] <upix_> what's Habamp?
[15:22] <craag> Cool.
[15:22] <UpuWork> its a PCB designed by Darkside to go in front of a SDR to filter and amplify the incoming signal
[15:22] <WillDuckworth> so does the full combo essentially 'see' the whole of the 434 freq range for our flights at the same time? so easy flight switching? right?
[15:23] <UpuWork> well you can see 433 -> 435 in one chunk yes
[15:23] <WillDuckworth> <and being cheap>
[15:23] <UpuWork> but you'll need to zoom in a little
[15:25] <WillDuckworth> any pics of habamp any whare?
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[15:25] <WillDuckworth> where
[15:25] <fsphil> with better software than we have at the moment, you could receive multiple flights at once
[15:26] <upix_> UpuWork: can you tune habamp or does it have predefined frequencies?
[15:26] <UpuWork> its a fixed saw filter
[15:26] <UpuWork> yeah 1 sec
[15:26] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HAB%20Filter/IMG_0969.JPG
[15:27] <Darkside> oh lawd
[15:27] <Darkside> thats a horrible adaptor there UpuWork
[15:27] <Darkside> such a thing is an abomination unto the RF gods
[15:28] <UpuWork> which one ?
[15:28] <Darkside> SMA to... PL 2 5 9
[15:28] <WillDuckworth> that's the badger - i'll take a habamp off ya
[15:28] <Darkside> the host horribleest of horrible connectors for anything >100MHz
[15:28] <UpuWork> such a HAM :)
[15:28] <UpuWork> its changing to N-Type
[15:28] <fsphil> my colinear has an SO socket
[15:29] <UpuWork> My Watson has SO socket
[15:29] <UpuWork> and the FT817 has SO socket
[15:29] <Darkside> yeah i know
[15:29] <fsphil> infact all my 70cm antennas do
[15:29] <Darkside> silly ham radio operators
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[15:29] <UpuWork> so my coax funnily enough has PL259 each end :)
[15:29] <Darkside> the connectors are cheap
[15:29] <Darkside> and easy to solder
[15:29] <Darkside> suitable for old hams with shaky hands
[15:29] <fsphil> the 857 has an N socket
[15:30] <craag> PL259s are a 37 ohm connector at 70cm IIRC.
[15:30] <UpuWork> anyway it can't be that shit got 700km out of it
[15:30] <Darkside> craag: ahaha
[15:30] <UpuWork> its like my bad routing Darkside, sure there is better but it works
[15:30] <UpuWork> anyway its changing to N-Type on Wednesday
[15:30] <craag> I use them for up to 144MHz, then BNC/N from 70cm and up.
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[15:32] <UpuWork> putting better quality coax in too
[15:32] <Darkside> what were you using?
[15:33] <Darkside> and what will you be using?
[15:33] <UpuWork> Westflex
[15:33] <UpuWork> currently RG58
[15:33] <Darkside> nfi what westflex is
[15:33] <UpuWork> 2 runs one to the colinear one to the Yagi
[15:33] <UpuWork> super dooper coax
[15:33] <daveake> very good - better than 213
[15:33] <Darkside> cool
[15:34] <craag> Westflex is solid-centre stuff.
[15:34] <craag> Good for installations.
[15:34] <UpuWork> 432 MHz: 7.5dB loss per 100 m
[15:34] <Darkside> copper clad aluminium?
[15:34] <UpuWork> copper clad copper
[15:34] <kokey> I suppose there's a lot of good RG58 cable left over from the BNC ethernet days
[15:34] <Darkside> heh
[15:34] <daveake> I don't have a permanent installation, so I use 213
[15:35] <Darkside> i'm using 213 on my home antenna, as its what i have
[15:35] <Darkside> also its a <10m run
[15:35] <Darkside> so meh
[15:36] <UpuWork> RG58 is 33.2db loss per 100 meter
[15:36] <craag> I've been looking at Aircell 7 - 7mm so can get in a latched window, but only ~14db loss per 100m at 430MHz.
[15:36] <craag> Expensive tho.
[15:36] <UpuWork> @ 400 Mhz
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[15:51] <Dan-K2VOL> does anyone have any connections with CNES or Zodiac?
[15:51] <Dan-K2VOL> if I come over for the conference I'd like to visit CNES and Zodiac's balloon teams
[15:52] <fsphil> I don't believe I've ever heard of them
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> CNES is the french government agency that does balloon flights, and Zodiac is the company that's built their balloons for the last 50 years
[15:53] <UpuWork> Coming to London Dan ?
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm going to try upu, it's going to be expensive, I'm trying to make sure the money bits all line up
[15:54] <UpuWork> that would be great both our remote speakers in person this time :)
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> oh who's the other?
[15:54] <UpuWork> Darkside from oz
[15:57] <UpuWork> right I'm off home bbl
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[16:45] <costyn> do your guys' He suppliers require the tanks to be returned within x number of days? I ordered mine for next saturday, but it doesn't look like we'll be launching, so then there's not much point in getting the tank of helium yet
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[16:45] <costyn> my supplier wants it back in 5 days
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[16:49] <Dan-K2VOL> sometimes they do, sometimes they don't
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[17:32] <eroomde> Laurenceb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk971PWYpTk&feature=youtu.be
[17:32] <eroomde> i want to see what u make of this
[17:32] <eroomde> i thought i'd have a go at finding the sat signals by using some bayesian techniques to burrow beneath the noise floor
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[17:36] <eroomde> fsphil: you might be interested in this too
[17:37] <eroomde> it's using a similar kind of thing to the changepoint detection (so a model selection problem) but to find the gps signals which are about 15-20dB beneath the noise floor
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[17:39] <mclane_> ping upu
[17:41] <fsphil> nice eroomde
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[17:49] <eroomde> it's also a technique i want to try for receiving this super slow morse beacon
[17:49] <eroomde> well anyway, back to coding
[17:53] <LazyLeopard> A simple QRSS beacon was a club construction project last year. Built one. Tested it and got it working nicely. Havn't ever connected it to an antenna for real, though.
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[17:55] <Upu> hey mclane_
[17:56] <mclane_> Hi upu; you wanted to talk about your preamps?
[17:56] <Upu> yeah PM
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[18:05] <JamesBurton> hello would you recommecd putting a lcd display ( http://www.oomlout.co.uk/lcd-display-16-x-2-p-212.html ) with arduino saw i can monitor to see if everything is working on startup and after like the gps and etc
[18:12] <JamesBurton> * Hello
[18:13] JamesBurton2 (5e41b82d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.65.184.45) joined #highaltitude.
[18:13] <JamesBurton2> Hello
[18:13] <JamesBurton2> * hello
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[18:27] <JamesBurton> IS THERE ERROR ( 0x00001)
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[18:32] <JamesBurton> daveake : Hello is there a error with this website http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=highaltitude
[18:34] <daveake> You mean the one you're connected via? You tell me.
[18:34] <JamesBurton> yes
[18:35] <daveake> Well it seems to be supplying stupid questions, so yes I guess it is broken
[18:35] <Randomskk> there are no stupid questions...
[18:36] <daveake> ...? :)
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> How do I shot web?
[18:36] <Randomskk> I was thinking of the scott adams quote ;)
[18:37] <daveake> :)
[18:39] <JamesBurton> one quick q : would you recommed that i could have ( http://www.oomlout.co.uk/lcd-display-16-x-2-p-212.html ) LCD Display for the Arduino for checking the gps and etc works on startup and after.
[18:39] <daveake> no
[18:39] <Randomskk> also no
[18:39] <JamesBurton> why?
[18:39] <jonsowman> i'm still considering my opinion on this matter
[18:39] <daveake> Not needed
[18:40] Action: Randomskk eagerly awaits jonsowman's reasoned opinion
[18:40] Action: daveake on edge of seat
[18:40] <jonsowman> i'm also going with "no"
[18:40] <daveake> hoorah!
[18:40] <Randomskk> phew
[18:40] <mattbrejza> you wont be able to see it when its insdie the box
[18:41] Action: Randomskk stops looking up the etymology of the word 'tenterhooks'
[18:41] <jonsowman> haha
[18:41] <jonsowman> i read that the other day
[18:41] <Randomskk> well now I know
[18:41] <Randomskk> seems reasonable
[18:41] <Randomskk> 45rpm records are great
[18:42] <Randomskk> almost as good as 320kbps mp3
[18:43] <mattbrejza> still inferior to the "crystal clear DAB" radio...
[18:43] <Randomskk> lol
[18:43] <mattbrejza> lol mp2
[18:43] psophis (~golddrago@wufi-pat1-1.wufi.wustl.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:44] <JamesBurton> just a idea because i can checked to see if everything works if here a problem it could tell me on startup with a error or display the Power but thank you for your options it help me
[18:45] <JamesBurton> not buying one
[18:45] <daveake> In testing you can send debug and startup messages along the USB serial port to the PC
[18:45] <mclane_> you can transmit debug messages via radio
[18:45] <Randomskk> and for on the field you can put an LED
[18:45] <Randomskk> also yea, out the radio
[18:45] <daveake> For the flight, out of the radio
[18:45] <mattbrejza> the LCD display/LED also wont be testing the antenna output power
[18:46] <JamesBurton> thanks
[18:46] <jonsowman> lol peugeot - ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS: NORMAL ATMOSPHERE
[18:46] <jonsowman> i don't have the "mars" version apparently
[18:46] <jonsowman> :\
[18:46] <daveake> lol
[18:47] <daveake> My new "beast" has an altimeter lol
[18:47] <jonsowman> nice
[18:47] <daveake> And a compass, which might actually be useful
[18:47] <jonsowman> what is it?
[18:47] <daveake> '97 Shogun
[18:47] <jonsowman> :D
[18:47] <Randomskk> jonsowman: haha
[18:47] <daveake> long wheel base, 7 seats, lots of space
[18:47] <Randomskk> I really want someone to dump the rom strings from that
[18:47] <Randomskk> and see what the other options are
[18:48] <Randomskk> ABNORMAL ATMOSPHERE?
[18:48] <daveake> Fuel consumption in gallons per mile
[18:48] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yeah, i've no idea lol
[18:48] <jonsowman> daveake: mm yes
[18:48] <jonsowman> petrol?
[18:49] <JamesBurton> diesel?
[18:49] <jonsowman> that would be the alternative
[18:49] <jonsowman> LPG i suppose
[18:49] <daveake> jonsowman guessed right
[18:50] <jonsowman> ah
[18:50] <JamesBurton> 6 miles per gallon
[18:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pressure"
[18:50] <jonsowman> yes i can understand the fuel consumption then
[18:50] <daveake> Though the diesel (from that era) is not much better, so with the extra cost per litre there's not a lot in it
[18:51] <daveake> For the amount of use it'll get, the fuel consumption isn't a big deal
[18:51] <jonsowman> yeah
[18:51] <jonsowman> is this for HABing only then?
[18:51] <daveake> HAB and snow :)
[18:51] <jonsowman> oh yes
[18:51] <daveake> We're up highish here, and get snowed in quite often
[18:51] <jonsowman> that too
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[18:52] <JamesBurton> daveake but it was hot today or not
[18:52] <daveake> Well thanks for asking. Yes
[18:52] <jonsowman> no snow today
[18:52] <daveake> But I got the air conditioning regassed in the Shogun, so my Yorkie bar didn't melt
[18:53] <JamesBurton> daveake how hot was it?
[18:53] <daveake> very
[18:53] <daveake> www.bbc.co.uk/weather for all you climatic needs
[18:53] <daveake> your
[18:54] <jonsowman> or a rough stab at them anyway
[18:54] <Randomskk> the best they can do under the circumstances I guess
[18:54] <daveake> quite
[18:54] <jonsowman> :)
[18:57] <JamesBurton> @@@@@@@""""""""""
[18:58] <Upu> pardon ?
[18:58] <daveake> It's all Greek to me
[18:58] <daveake> *finally* I get to use that one :)
[18:58] <nigelvh> It's an interpretive dance, conveyed in text.
[18:59] <daveake> "The flowers are that way -->"
[18:59] <JamesBurton> Sorry About That My Error Because i was type some code for a asp.net c# website i designed
[19:00] <jonsowman> apparently its syntax is worse than I thought
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[19:00] <daveake> lol
[19:01] <JamesBurton> Process.Start(@"openssl.exe", "ca -in -out "
[19:01] <JamesBurton> )
[19:01] <nigelvh> Sounds dangerous...
[19:01] <daveake> Please engage brain and eyes
[19:03] <nigelvh> I could start throwing in some PHP. I know everyone would love to see some of those code samples.
[19:03] <jonsowman> let's not go there
[19:03] Action: nigelvh ducks
[19:03] <JamesBurton> in asp.net it run a command by cmd point or openssl (exe file ) and get the output display onto the website for something not @@@@@"""""""""""""""" at is wrong for a asp.net c#
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[19:05] <daveake> Looks more like APL. Nowthat was a language .... :D
[19:05] <JamesBurton> What Do you think of thiswebsite design ( Not Finish ) http://securesign7.azurewebsites.net/Default.aspx
[19:07] <JamesBurton> and it's asp.net ( .aspx )
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[19:10] <JamesBurton> daveake : what do you think?
[19:10] <daveake> I think you should ask someone else
[19:11] <daveake> Preferably on a suitable forum
[19:11] <JamesBurton> daveake : what i am asking is wood you go on that site for buy things
[19:12] <Upu> JamesBurton thats off topic
[19:12] <JamesBurton> just asking
[19:12] <Upu> please keep it to high altitude projects on here please
[19:12] <JamesBurton> ok
[19:14] <JamesBurton> can you not used wifi on a HAD for downloading images from a cerma in the furture
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[19:14] <Upu> and again in English ?
[19:15] <JamesBurton> wifi on a balloon for downloading images
[19:16] <Upu> No we aren't allowed to transmit from the air
[19:16] <Upu> apart from the license exempt bands
[19:17] <mattbrejza> wifi is allowed in the air
[19:17] <mattbrejza> just wont work
[19:17] <mattbrejza> (well)
[19:17] <JamesBurton> Flight Radiotelephony Operators Licence.
[19:18] <JamesBurton> http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra326.htm
[19:20] <JamesBurton> Upu : can you used this
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[19:22] <mattbrejza> no (simple answer)
[19:22] <Upu> JamesBurton firstly whats that got to do with wifi ? Secondly read the first line.
[19:23] <JamesBurton> Upu : not wifi
[19:24] <Upu> Not applicable to us thats for aircraft
[19:25] <JamesBurton> ok sorry
[19:33] <JamesBurton> Thank you for your help bye for now
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[19:35] <daveake> Bye have a nice day
[19:35] <Upu> don't bang your head on the way out
[19:35] <daveake> Let us do that for you
[19:35] <Randomskk> can we ban him from the internet?
[19:35] <Randomskk> for his own good I mean
[19:36] <Upu> sadly not
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[19:36] <Randomskk> the ssl thing made me a bit sad
[19:36] <daveake> I'm just amazed he manages to login
[19:36] <daveake> Though he did try to use my name to login first time ...
[19:36] <jonsowman> lol
[19:36] <jonsowman> that was amusing
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[19:37] <daveake> I was afk at the time. Got to the netbook and had a big "WTF???" moment
[19:37] <Randomskk> :P
[19:37] <jonsowman> :D
[19:37] <daveake> Assumed it was one of you lot having a laff :)
[19:37] <number10> would we have noticed it wasnt you ;)
[19:38] <daveake> After a few days, maybe
[19:38] <Upu> yeah which one of you is trolling its not funny now
[19:38] <daveake> Well it's a Greek IP address so that excludes almost everyone
[19:39] <Randomskk> haha
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[19:39] <daveake> And no I'm not suggesting it is actually someone we know :)
[19:39] Action: jonsowman googles greek VPS services
[19:39] <daveake> :)
[19:39] <jonsowman> it's not me i promise.
[19:40] <daveake> I know yuo wood not do it
[19:40] <daveake> damn
[19:40] <Randomskk> a clue!
[19:40] <jonsowman> :O
[19:40] <daveake> :)
[19:40] <fsphil> *gasp*
[19:41] <jonsowman> http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_gifs/3414226/It+was+you+this+entire+time/
[19:41] <daveake> lol
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[19:41] <nigelvh_> haha
[19:42] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuNAE1AV4ls
[19:42] <nigelvh_> I <3 ZIM!
[19:43] <nigelvh_> In all seriousness, that was a good show, and all good shows on nickelodeon get cancelled.
[19:43] <fsphil> it was amazing
[19:43] <nigelvh_> I have the DVDs
[19:43] <fsphil> snap lol
[19:45] <nigelvh_> Poop Dogg! The gangsta spectre of defeaaaaat!
[19:45] <nigelvh_> Anyway, enough of that.
[19:45] <fsphil> you can never have enough of that, but indeed it's getting off topic
[19:45] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[19:45] <nigelvh> That's what I meant
[19:45] <fsphil> unless somehow habing can be used to take over this stinky planet
[19:46] <nigelvh> I'm sure we could find a way.
[19:46] <nigelvh> Put all the humans to work producing snacks for The Tallest.
[19:46] <nigelvh> (BTW I'm 6'3-4")
[19:47] <nigelvh> (haven't measured precicely enough if it's closer to 3 or 4)
[19:47] <fsphil> I do find it a bit suspicious that we never see the tallestesses feet
[19:47] <fsphil> I bet they're really tiny
[19:48] <nigelvh> Sure we do, they're just hanging below them as they hover around. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TheAlmightyTallest.jpg
[19:49] <fsphil> robot feet!
[19:49] <nigelvh> Perhaps.
[19:50] <nigelvh> Anyway, Humans + ? = Snacks.
[19:50] <nigelvh> Throw in HAB somewhere and you've got a plan to conquer earth.
[19:51] <fsphil> </fanboy> so, how's things over there?
[19:52] <nigelvh> In uhmerikuh? Alright I suppose.
[19:53] <nigelvh> Just had lunch. Tuna sandwich.
[19:53] <nigelvh> In my not-work time I've been fiddling with an idea based on what KT5TK showed in his PecanNut design.
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjKEmKUatJ4
[19:55] <fsphil> that's a complicated board he's building
[19:57] <nigelvh> Fancy indeed.
[19:57] <Upu> I don't know whether to be impressed or horified
[19:57] <fsphil> he has three hands!!
[19:57] <Upu> yeah I noticed that
[19:57] <nigelvh> Also that ^
[19:57] <Upu> its where I'm going wrong
[19:58] <Upu> I'm sure thats not manufacturer approved
[19:58] <nigelvh> Perhaps not enough uranium in the water. Damn city governments skimping on the supplements.
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[19:58] <fsphil> that 's really impressive
[19:59] <fsphil> madness, but impressive
[20:03] <nigelvh> Yeah, I think doing a 100 pin tqfp is about my limit. I'll stick with components with leads (whether they're small or not) thank you.
[20:07] <Upu> I'd have a shot a that
[20:07] <Upu> I'd break it but I'd have a go :)
[20:07] <nigelvh> It's not really all too hard.
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[20:08] <nigelvh> Ignore any solder bridges, just solder all the pins down and try not to bridge too many, then go back over everything with solder wick. Cleans it right up.
[20:09] <Upu> it was the soldering direct on the chip that looks a little dodgy to me
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[20:12] <JamesBurton> what is the highest balloon in the UK
[20:12] <Upu> Guess where I'm going to tell you to look ?
[20:13] <JamesBurton> ukhas
[20:13] <Upu> bingo have a nice day
[20:13] <JamesBurton> that was quick
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> stop trolling
[20:13] <JamesBurton> just asking
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[20:15] <jonsowman> JamesBurton: you have been asked several times now - please at least attempt to find the answers to questions before asking here
[20:15] <JamesBurton> Who did has filght XABEN-25 - 43721m (143441 ft)
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[20:16] <Upu> Rocketboy
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[20:19] <JamesBurton> Upu Thank you i like asking questions gives me a idea saw i know what i am doing
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[20:20] <jonsowman> JamesBurton: people here are always willing to help, but you will get answers quicker and learn more by researching things like this yourself
[20:20] <jonsowman> you won't get any satisfaction from the project if you just ask how to do every single bit
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[20:22] <jonsowman> this channel is here for asking questions, of course, but please don't abuse the privilege, it just makes you seem lazy
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[20:24] <JamesBurton> jonsowman : i keep reading the ukhas website but after talking with everyone i got a better idea what i need and how to do it better because half the things on the website was new to me and i did not want to buy the wrong things this why i ask sorry you think i am being lazy it just wanted i know more by asking.
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[20:25] <jonsowman> JamesBurton: i understand what you're saying, but a search for "ukhas records" would have answered your question earlier
[20:26] <daveake> I'll say something I said before: I spent 3 months researching before I asked any questions here. Almost everything you need to know, or want to know, is on this wonderful internet thing
[20:26] <daveake> Ask when you can't find
[20:26] <jonsowman> you are more than welcome to ask for clarification, all I'm asking if that you make an attempt to answer questions yourself before asking here
[20:27] <JamesBurton> ok next time i ask if i can not find it and before i did not save the web pages saw i forget
[20:27] <JamesBurton> but now i have
[20:28] <daveake> Oh, and that reminds me, try using English, in complete sentences. You said you were from the UK so unless you moved out at age 6 you should be able to do much better
[20:30] <daveake> People here spend a lot of time helping others, and it's frustrating to have to spend half that time translating your posts
[20:32] <Randomskk> (at the same time, if you're not a native english speaker then fair enough)
[20:32] <daveake> indeed
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[20:34] <JamesBurton> ok sorry about that and you can ask me questions about everything i do and i answer back and i am english not a native english speaker i am from you north ( oswaldtwistle )
[20:34] <JamesBurton> i am from the north ( oswaldtwistle )
[20:34] <daveake> Ah, notherner. That explains it then. :p
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[20:34] <daveake> +r
[20:34] <upix_> I don't get it (I'm not english)
[20:35] <Upu> Well Northern monkeys speak rate funny
[20:35] <daveake> ^^ that's what I meant
[20:36] <upix_> hard to believe
[20:36] <upix_> but I will take it
[20:36] <nigelvh> Perhaps something like the deep south in the US.
[20:36] <Randomskk> well, only in terms of they're different to the rest of us ;)
[20:36] <KT5TK_QRL> Probs with my accent?
[20:36] <JamesBurton> upix_ what is hard to believe ?
[20:37] <nigelvh> Your accent is quite distinguishable over the internet KT5TK_QRL
[20:37] <KT5TK_QRL> Believe it or not, I'm from the south (but actually south Germany :) )
[20:37] <upix_> JamesBurton: that north english is so much different from english
[20:38] <JamesBurton> i did not think so engish is engish
[20:38] <JamesBurton> english
[20:38] <upix_> see
[20:38] <upix_> anyway time to get sensors from the freezer
[20:39] <jonsowman> i read that as "sponsors"
[20:39] <jonsowman> need more sleep, clearly
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> cryoprison
[20:39] <nigelvh> Apparently we've all got engrish problems.
[20:39] <jonsowman> quite
[20:39] <KT5TK_QRL> True
[20:40] <Randomskk> I think it's just jonsowman's recent interactions with sponsors priming him
[20:40] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6VC5gdaFA
[20:40] <jonsowman> Randomskk: I've no doubt at all about that
[20:40] <jonsowman> >.>
[20:40] <JamesBurton> Do Some of you speak queen english
[20:41] <Randomskk> jonsowman does
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[20:41] <jonsowman> lies
[20:41] <jonsowman> :)
[20:41] <Randomskk> maybe I should do an accent at habconf
[20:41] <Randomskk> maybe I should get habitat presentable for habconf...
[20:42] <jonsowman> haha
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[20:43] <JamesBurton> who speak like me
[20:43] <JamesBurton> from the north
[20:44] <fsphil> nobody will understand a word I say. muhahaha
[20:44] <fsphil> I should do a talk
[20:44] <Randomskk> irish accents are great though :D
[20:44] <fsphil> some of them are
[20:44] <upix_> can anyone do scottish?
[20:45] <jonsowman> irish and welsh accents are amazing
[20:45] <fsphil> half my family is scottish, but I never did master it
[20:45] <upix_> a pitty
[20:45] <JamesBurton> give it a tried
[20:45] <fsphil> I can't do welsh either, I just sound indian weirdly
[20:46] <JamesBurton> come to greece and speak greek
[20:48] <JamesBurton> daveake : do you travel up north
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[20:48] <JamesBurton> like lancashire
[20:48] <daveake> That's quite specific
[20:49] <JamesBurton> why is it quite specific
[20:49] <daveake> That's what I was wondering
[20:50] <jonsowman> it's like a monty python sketch
[20:50] <fsphil> hah
[20:50] upix_ (4e3c1ef4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.60.30.244) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:50] <daveake> I'm doing my best :)
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[20:51] <JamesBurton> daveake north west like blackpool
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[20:51] <fsphil> blackpuul
[20:51] <JamesBurton> blackpoo
[20:51] <daveake> I go to lots of places
[20:51] <JamesBurton> sorry blackpool
[20:52] <daveake> So far my sea landings have yet to venture that far
[20:53] <jonsowman> :)
[20:53] <jonsowman> it's only a matter of time
[20:53] <fsphil> you're missing out there daveake
[20:53] <daveake> I know
[20:53] <JamesBurton> daveake but i tought that you don't like sea landing
[20:53] <daveake> Greece last year - http://imgur.com/WDCW0
[20:53] <JamesBurton> daveake where was that
[20:53] <daveake> Who did you teach that to?
[20:53] <JamesBurton> in greece
[20:54] <daveake> yes, in greece
[20:54] <JamesBurton> but where
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[20:55] <JamesBurton> daveake but where in greece was that image snap
[20:56] <daveake> Loutraki
[20:56] <daveake> Clue: http://imgur.com/uzj3D
[20:57] <JamesBurton> daveake near athens
[20:57] <daveake> 80km
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[20:58] <JamesBurton> daveake will you be going back to Loutraki
[20:58] <daveake> nope
[20:59] <JamesBurton> daveake why?
[20:59] <daveake> It was for a work project
[20:59] <daveake> No plans to go back
[21:00] <JamesBurton> daveake what job do you do
[21:00] <daveake> Software. I wrote the software in that device
[21:01] <JamesBurton> daveake i do a bit like your job SSL
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> in the what?
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[21:01] <JamesBurton> laurenceb_ in the what? was that for me
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> <daveake> Software. I wrote the software in that device
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[21:03] <daveake> I'm confused
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[21:03] <jonsowman> daveake: Laurenceb_ is asking what device you're talking about
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> indeed
[21:03] <JamesBurton> http://imgur.com/uzj3D
[21:04] <daveake> Ah, in that case, it's a split timing device for WRC
[21:04] <daveake> Which doesn't mean it's broken down the middle :)
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> oh
[21:04] <jonsowman> lol
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> let me guess
[21:04] <daveake> GPS timer plus some software for the display etc
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> it uses a pic right?
[21:04] <daveake> No
[21:04] <daveake> two
[21:04] <daveake> lol
[21:05] <daveake> The GPS board (not mine) has a little PIC
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> ewwww
[21:05] <JamesBurton> daveake you are good at coding
[21:06] <daveake> I get by
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> JamesBurton: is your real name Jerry Jackson?
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> http://www.fat-pie.com/jerryjackson.htm
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> nsfw
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[21:10] <JamesBurton> what
[21:10] <JamesBurton> James Burton it on the tin
[21:10] <JamesBurton> Laurenceb_ : My Name is James Burton
[21:10] <JamesBurton> Laurenceb_ is this you
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[21:11] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> no
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> im not that good at flash
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> irony intended
[21:11] <jonsowman> :D
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[21:14] <JamesBurton> but you can do it in html , CSS3
[21:14] andrew_apex_ (~chatzilla@2.27.81.76) joined #highaltitude.
[21:14] <JamesBurton> Laurenceb_ flash as website flash
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[21:15] Nick change: andrew_apex_ -> andrew_apex
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> ....
[21:15] <JamesBurton> Laurenceb_ What ....
[21:17] <JamesBurton> thank you for your help going now.
[21:18] JamesBurton (5e41b82d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.65.184.45) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> argg
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> now i cant help reading everything he says in a jerry jackson voice
[21:19] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54A06C39.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello everyone
[21:20] <fsphil> <everyone> yo
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:20] Nick change: fsphil -> everyone
[21:20] Action: everyone should give fsphil lots of money, cause he's great
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:20] Nick change: everyone -> Guest41235
[21:20] <Guest41235> ah well
[21:21] Nick change: Guest41235 -> fsphil41235
[21:21] Nick change: fsphil41235 -> fsphil
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[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[21:21] daveake (daveake@daveake.plus.com) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> well I know the time is advanced but would anyone be willing to talk about my code to find out why it fails?
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[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> can you maybe help me?
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[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> today I ran this code http://paste.ubuntu.com/1109029/
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[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> and the output on the serial monitor was firstly slow
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> and the voltage reading was 4.2 V instead of 4.33V which it was when I tested before
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> and the sensors started to give strange readings
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> like 3000 ° C on the barometer, the DS18B20 just gave -1000 which means error and the barometer again gave something around 200 pascals, i.e. well above 30 km altitude
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[21:40] Action: Lunar_Lander sings
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> no one can answer my questions, questions of science, science and progress, that pulls so much on my heart
[21:49] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: has that code worked for you before with your current setup?
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> I tested the code partially before
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. first I had the code for the DS18B20, the batteries and the humidity sensor
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> and just had it to print those results to the screen
[21:50] <Upu> evening Lunar
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> then I added the parts on the BMP085
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> and just today I added all the GPS control parts
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> and what happens is that after a few runs, either the serial monitor stops, i.e. it prints no more data
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> or that the barometer and thermometer give crazy results
[21:51] <Upu> so your sensors work individually ?
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:51] <Upu> when you've stuck all the code together have you ended up with some common variables ?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> firstly yes, the two temperature variables from DS18B20 and BMP085
[21:52] <Upu> you need to step back
[21:52] <Upu> remove the code for the sensors
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> I then renamed the former to temperatureD
[21:52] <Upu> go back to where it was working and add one bit at once
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> it worked when I had the BMP085, DS18B20, Humidity and batteries
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[21:53] <Upu> ok
[21:53] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:53] <Upu> so what did you add that broke it ?
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> basically all the GPS stuff
[21:53] <daveake> nothing important then
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> which is based on PD3EMs code
[21:54] <Upu> and on its own does the GPS stuff work ?
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> and that was in turn from EURUS
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:54] <Upu> ok
[21:54] <Upu> so somewhere
[21:54] <Upu> you will have variables that have the same name in two bits of code possibly
[21:54] <Upu> so you need to get each bit of working code
[21:55] <nigelvh> Or, (and much harder to check for), you're running out of ram with the addition of the GPS stuff.
[21:55] <Upu> list the variables out and see if you get any conflicts
[21:55] <Upu> or what nigelvh said but thats unlikely
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[21:55] <daveake> I think it's a mega
[21:55] <nigelvh> He aught to be fine then.
[21:55] <daveake> So that would be a challenge probably
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> the program is about 18000 bytes in size
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> and the mega has 258000 bytes
[21:56] <nigelvh> Has nothing to do with the size of the program
[21:56] <daveake> ram not rom
[21:56] <Upu> check your not doing something silly with the smoothing code
[21:56] <Upu> like its not creating a huge array
[21:56] <nigelvh> Has everything to do with how much space the variables take up in memory
[21:56] <Upu> reduce the smoothing to 5
[21:57] <Upu> but my bet is since you've mixed 2 lots of code together your getting conflicting variables
[21:57] <nigelvh> That would also be my first guess.
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, I actually pasted my code
[21:57] <daveake> Is this code up somewhere?
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1109029/
[21:57] <daveake> ta
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[21:58] <daveake> And what isn't it doing?
[21:58] <Upu> runs ok for a while then goes splat ?
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> yes,
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> the thermometer just shows -1000 which means error
[21:58] <daveake> Oh, so falling off the end of a buffer, or recursion the
[21:58] <daveake> n
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> and the barometer thinks at is 30000 m
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> buffer you say
[21:59] <daveake> So "splat" means bad values?
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> as I just cited
[21:59] <daveake> But it still runs
[21:59] <daveake> ?
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> the BMP085 shows 30000 m and 300°C, DS18B20 shows just "-1000"
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> the output still runs on the serial monitor
[21:59] <daveake> OK, and the GPS is OK, and rtty OK?
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't incoporate the radio yet
[22:00] <daveake> OK
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> but the GPS gives time and navmode: 6
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> nothing else, as in the room there I got no lock
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> and it was too late to bring it into the yard to get lock
[22:00] <daveake> But the only part that's wrong is reading those sensors? Or the values are being overwritten.
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:01] <daveake> ok
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> I try to explain#
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> you see the calls in the loop for the GPS functions?
[22:01] <daveake> Just about to look, now I have an idea what to look for :)
[22:01] <Upu> gpd altitude is 'alt' and pressure altitude is 'altitude'
[22:01] <Upu> gps
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> when I exchanged the order, i.e. I placed the BMP085 calls before them, I got a few outputs on the serial monitor
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> and then it stopped
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. it didn't scroll further
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> OK, that isn't good?
[22:02] <Upu> no thats not good
[22:02] <Upu> Personally I'd comment out each part of code, i.e the BMP085 part
[22:03] <daveake> You have nothing to protect the index of buf[] going off the end
[22:03] <Upu> try it see if the temp sensor then works
[22:03] <daveake> Actually it's worse than that
[22:04] <daveake> No it isn't
[22:04] <daveake> You have a "break"
[22:04] <daveake> Have to say a while(1) .... if (something) break; makes me want to be a little bit ill
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:05] <daveake> Makes it non-obvious
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> the GPS part is as I said from PD3EM who in turn had it from jcoxon's EURUS
[22:05] <daveake> Anyway, you *must* do a check to stop buf[i] falling off the end of the buffer
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> how do I do it?
[22:05] <daveake> if
[22:06] <daveake> As in ... if (i < 70) ....
[22:06] <daveake> that sort of thing
[22:06] <MrScienceMan> gps_get_data()'s loop can also run out of buff
[22:06] <daveake> That's the one I'm talking about
[22:07] <MrScienceMan> hes got the the if right
[22:07] <daveake> And the comment says 3 seconds but the code says 1
[22:07] <MrScienceMan> its inside the while
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:07] <daveake> yes
[22:07] <daveake> Just ugly
[22:07] <MrScienceMan> yeah i know
[22:08] <MrScienceMan> he can move the condition to while and just reverse it
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, how can I do that?
[22:11] <MrScienceMan> put: millis() - startTime > 1000
[22:11] <MrScienceMan> in while
[22:11] <MrScienceMan> instead of the 1 there
[22:12] <MrScienceMan> and replace > with <
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> like http://paste.ubuntu.com/1109108/
[22:14] <MrScienceMan> also, its probably a good idea have variable indicating
[22:14] <MrScienceMan> if that function has timed out
[22:14] <MrScienceMan> otherwise, you could get a bit of new data over the old in buff
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:14] <MrScienceMan> and get a incorrect reading
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> a bit like http://paste.ubuntu.com/1109111/ ?
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[22:16] <MrScienceMan> yeh, and now you can remove lines #15 to #19
[22:17] <MrScienceMan> well, if you want the timeout
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:17] <MrScienceMan> just keep as it was
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:20] <daveake> float tempRead = ((MSB << 8) | LSB);
[22:21] <daveake> That stuff never works. MSB is a byte. You need to convert to an int16 before you go shifting it
[22:23] <daveake> unsigned probably
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[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> but like sparkfun actually links to that code
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[22:31] <daveake> Cast it (convert) to the right length first; don't rely on the compiler to do it for you.
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:32] <daveake> Casting rules - http://www.fiendish.demon.co.uk/c/casting.html
[22:32] <daveake> IME not every compiler does it correctly
[22:32] <daveake> Best to do it yourself
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> I need the third thing?
[22:34] <daveake> I would explicitly cast.
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:35] <fsphil> when in doubt, always cast
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[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> like tempRead (int16) = ((MSB << 8) | LSB)
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> ?
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[22:43] <daveake> no
[22:44] <daveake> What I mean is to cast the value you are about to shift
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[22:44] <daveake> MSB is 1 byte. If that is shifted by 8 then you end up with zero
[22:44] <daveake> So it has to be converted to something larger first
[22:45] <daveake> Then it can be shifted
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> so I have to go to the first place the MSB turns up?
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[22:45] <daveake> If the rules say the compiler should do it, and you believe the compiler does, then you can leave it to the compiler
[22:46] <daveake> If like me you can't remember the rules and don't trust compilers, do it yourself :)
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:46] <daveake> So yes, (uint16)(MSB) etc
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> OK but in total
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> what could have been the reason that the code fails the way I explained it
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, said that similar sounding variables are in
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> and you said that the buffer could overflow
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[22:47] <daveake> "similar sounding" no
[22:48] <daveake> And if you have 2 global variables the same name, the compiler will tell you
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> I got alt and altitude
[22:48] <daveake> Anyway, nn
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> and that apperently was OK for it
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, still there=
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> ?
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[00:00] --- Wed Jul 25 2012