[00:11] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[00:14] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-245-160.clienti.tiscali.it) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[00:15] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[00:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
[01:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Russ Garrett "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
[01:16] suckerpunch (~suckerpun@pdpc/supporter/active/suckerpunch) left irc: Quit: Leaving...
[01:21] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54A07ED7.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[01:23] <natrium42> perpetual insurance discussion :P
[01:23] <russss> heh
[01:25] <Randomskk> it won't end
[01:25] <Randomskk> also amateur stats
[01:26] <Randomskk> not going to get into it, but if it really was 0.1% likely that a payload hits an A road, the odds of the met office not having done so given number of releases and years in operation really are vanishingly small.
[01:26] <Randomskk> the data would seem to disprove that particular null hypothesis.
[01:26] <Randomskk> (the thing is, I can't contest the approximated A road area vs the UK area, so...)
[01:27] <Randomskk> I mean, they have 34 radiosonde release sites, releasing up to four times daily
[01:27] <natrium42> one launch it canada i participated in landed on a not quite deserted road
[01:27] <natrium42> somebody moved it to the side when teams got there
[01:27] <Randomskk> if you assume only half of them release at most twice daily that's 12,000 launches a year
[01:28] <Randomskk> the odds of none of those landing on an A road is like 6E-06
[01:28] <Randomskk> (or rather the CDF for X<=0 of a binomial distribution with n=12000 and p=0.0001 is 6E-06...)
[01:29] <natrium42> it may be more worth the effort to make payloads lighter/smaller
[01:29] <Randomskk> it's not like that's not happening anyway
[01:29] <natrium42> rather than dealing with bureaucrats
[01:29] <Randomskk> you play a careful game with lighter/smaller
[01:30] <Randomskk> air resistance and kinetic energy are your main concerns really
[01:30] <Randomskk> and to be honest the vast majority of HAB payloads... probably not that big a concern. the dropping-in-front-of-a-car is proably much more likely to be dangerous than hitting-something-directly
[01:31] <natrium42> well, the biggest concern is scaring somebody
[01:31] <natrium42> especially a driver
[01:31] <Randomskk> yea
[01:32] <natrium42> i hope that i would react by keeping driving in the same direction
[01:32] <Randomskk> swerving is pretty much always a bad idea. doesn't stop some people doing it though...
[01:32] <natrium42> but not sure i can be completely certain, and i have launched balloons :P
[01:32] <natrium42> yeah
[01:33] <Randomskk> it would be interesting to have firmer numbers on it
[01:33] <Randomskk> really it'd be interesting to get incident rates from the met office
[01:33] <Randomskk> and balloon launch stats
[01:34] <natrium42> is there something like freedom of information act in the UK?
[01:34] <Randomskk> yes
[01:35] <Randomskk> but it probably wouldn't cover this per se
[01:35] <Randomskk> well
[01:35] <Randomskk> actually I guess it should do.
[01:35] <Randomskk> but technically the data is only available to researchers:
[01:35] <Randomskk> http://badc.nerc.ac.uk/view/badc.nerc.ac.uk__ATOM__dataent_GLOBRADS
[01:35] <Randomskk> Please note that the Met Office data sets are available for bona fide academic research only (sorry no undergraduates),
[01:36] <natrium42> bah, what do they have to hide? ufos?
[01:36] <Randomskk> but
[01:36] <Randomskk> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7841724/Met-Office-apologises-after-weather-balloon-crashes-into-conservatory.html
[01:36] <Randomskk> Figures released under Freedom of Information laws disclose that the publicly-owned forecaster has paid out more than £25,000 in compensation since October 2007.
[01:36] <Randomskk> This included bills for the damage caused when three of its weather balloons separately crashed into a car window, a conservatory and some overhead power lines.
[01:37] <russss> do they self-insure?
[01:37] <russss> it's interesting
[01:37] <Randomskk> I don't know. I think jonsowman might.
[01:37] <Randomskk> that article seems to be reasonable
[01:37] <natrium42> <Gary McKinnon>it's a coverup!</Gary McKinnon>
[01:37] <Randomskk> march 08, april 09, october 09, "another a little while ago"
[01:38] <Randomskk> or really, this:
[01:38] <Randomskk> Someone calls approximately once every six months saying that a radiosonde might have damaged their property, she said. To put this in context we launch around 3,000 a year.
[01:38] <russss> so 0.07% then
[01:38] <Randomskk> indeed.
[01:39] <russss> the more interesting point is damage to aircraft though
[01:39] <Randomskk> with payouts ranging from a replaced windscreen (£380), a replaced conservatory window (£92) and power cables (£433)
[01:39] <russss> because that's the big-ticket risks which underwriters care about really
[01:39] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[01:39] <Randomskk> if those three are typical claims it's practically petty cash
[01:39] <Randomskk> yea
[01:40] <russss> yeah, it would be possible to self-insure ourselves at that rate
[01:40] <Randomskk> in theory the ICAO regs wrt line breaking strength means a plane hitting the line should be fine
[01:40] <Randomskk> the box or balloon going into a jet engine or getting caught in a prop seems the biggest worry
[01:40] <Randomskk> or, rather, the most likely to cause an expensive accident
[01:40] <russss> but at that point UKHAS could get a policy with a £5k (or even £10k) excess, and self-insure anything below that.
[01:41] <Randomskk> what structure would you imagine a formal self insurance as a society would take on?
[01:41] <russss> unincorporated association
[01:42] <Randomskk> I mean more how you imagine it would work than what form of legal entity
[01:42] <russss> ah
[01:42] <Randomskk> what, a pot that everyone pays £50 into each year, or £10 a launch, or something
[01:42] suckerpunch (~suckerpun@93-97-12-107.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[01:42] suckerpunch (~suckerpun@93-97-12-107.zone5.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Changing host
[01:42] suckerpunch (~suckerpun@pdpc/supporter/active/suckerpunch) joined #highaltitude.
[01:42] <russss> yeah
[01:42] <Randomskk> claims <5k come from that pot
[01:42] <russss> something like that
[01:42] <Randomskk> and UKHAS itself gets a 5k excess policy to cover plane incidents
[01:42] <Randomskk> and it then pays the excess?
[01:43] <russss> yeah
[01:43] <Randomskk> how would the self insurance be structured legally? write up a contract or something?
[01:43] <russss> it might require some members loaning (or at least promising) money to start it off
[01:43] <Randomskk> I imagine insurance is regulated?
[01:43] <russss> yeah it's not something I have any experience with
[01:44] <Randomskk> maybe not for an uninc assoc self-insuring though
[01:44] <russss> insurance is taxed as well
[01:44] <russss> (for some reason...)
[01:44] <Randomskk> it is like our biggest industry or whatever
[01:44] <russss> based on nominal value perhaps
[01:44] <Randomskk> (is it really? I mean, that was always the shitty example of specialisation from GCSE geography)
[01:45] <Randomskk> to be honest though the 0.07% chance of damage on average £300
[01:45] <russss> it's like derivatives (which are basically insurance). If you count the nominal value it's multiple trillions of pounds per year, but that doesn't actually equate to the money changing hands
[01:45] <natrium42> has anybody used UART on iPhone 4S?
[01:45] <Randomskk> it's only the somewhat rarer hit-a-plane incident that I imagine most people are that concerned about
[01:46] <Randomskk> and it would seem the met office haven't done that yet
[01:46] <russss> yeah
[01:46] <Randomskk> it'd be nice to have data but I imagine that is very rare indeed
[01:47] <russss> underwriters are a lot more cooperative if you're only trying to insure certain classes of risks I think
[01:47] <russss> i.e. the rare ones
[01:47] <Randomskk> http://www.weatherjackwilliams.com/archives/answers-weather-balloons-and-airplanes
[01:47] <Randomskk> tl;dr: no balloon-plane impacts in US aviation
[01:48] <russss> I guess it's an order of magnitude more likely to hit a car than it is a plane
[01:48] <Randomskk> possibly more than one.
[01:48] <russss> yeah
[01:48] <Randomskk> the 20km or so of verticle space for planes to hide in helps a lot
[01:48] <Randomskk> vertical*
[01:49] <Randomskk> the US has some 92 stations launching twice daily
[01:49] <Randomskk> and never hit a plane
[01:50] <Randomskk> I think there comes a point where it's a risk you take. bigger than the risk of dying in a car crash chasing the thing, I imagine
[01:50] <Randomskk> smaller* even.
[01:50] <Randomskk> it's late >_>
[01:51] <russss> yeah
[01:51] <russss> but in that case, surely it would cost practically nothing to insure that risk
[01:51] <Randomskk> paying for the time it took someone to work it out
[01:52] <Randomskk> and also if it costs practically nothing it's practically not worth the company doing
[01:52] <Randomskk> it's not like anyone is obliged to offer us insurance
[01:52] <Randomskk> I don't know at what level of cash it becomes worthwhile them having a policy out and someone work out the relevant risks etc
[01:53] <russss> yeah, *that's* the advantage of getting insurange as a group
[01:53] <Randomskk> I'm not convinced the UKHAS group would still be big enough to be worthwhile
[01:53] <Randomskk> a hundred launches a year is probably pushing it, so you're talking something like £5k tops
[01:54] <Randomskk> and to be honest I don't know how many people would pay £50 per launch either
[01:55] <russss> yeah
[02:02] suckerpunch (~suckerpun@pdpc/supporter/active/suckerpunch) left irc: Quit: Leaving...
[02:08] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[02:56] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[03:25] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[04:14] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[04:42] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:09] DrLuke (~Im@p5481DB3D.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[05:12] DrLuke (~Im@p57926DDB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[05:33] tioukcom (~tioukcom@rtr-stoke.theinternet.org.uk) got netsplit.
[05:33] lindas (users.5111@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmtgnhtmureqylwg) got netsplit.
[05:33] fsphil (~fsphil@2001:8b0:34:1:1::2) got netsplit.
[05:33] priyesh (~priyesh@unaffiliated/priyesh) got netsplit.
[05:33] mattltm (~mattltm@ got netsplit.
[05:33] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) got netsplit.
[05:33] G0DJA (~chatzilla@88-97-37-189.dsl.zen.co.uk) got netsplit.
[05:33] russss (users.30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwpeitjcuxqfoapp) got netsplit.
[05:33] ckuethe (~ckuethe@node0.mainframe.cx) got netsplit.
[05:33] KT5TK (~thomas@c-76-30-70-108.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) got netsplit.
[05:33] gartt (~gart@ip68-0-205-248.ri.ri.cox.net) got netsplit.
[05:33] natrium42 (~alexei@d24-150-92-187.home.cgocable.net) got netsplit.
[05:33] mattbrejza (~mattbrejz@kryten.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] stilldavid (~david@stilldavid.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] astevens (~astevens@caosvm2.osuosl.org) got netsplit.
[05:33] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] gonzo_ (~gonzo@ got netsplit.
[05:33] grummund (~user@unaffiliated/grummund) got netsplit.
[05:33] zyp (zyp@zyp.im) got netsplit.
[05:33] skor_ (~skor@unaffiliated/skor) got netsplit.
[05:33] aetaric (~aetaric@dustinessington.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] chaoshax (~chaoshax@cpc5-swin15-2-0-cust121.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] earthshine (~Mike@cpc1-orpi1-0-0-cust99.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkjlyxraytxwxlli) got netsplit.
[05:33] iamdanw (u459@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzxabbgrmwmafrfs) got netsplit.
[05:33] eroomde (~ed@kraken.habhub.org) got netsplit.
[05:33] jevin_ (~jevin@napalm.jevinskie.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] costyn (~costyn@lolcathost.quanza.net) got netsplit.
[05:33] Darkside (~Darkside@compsci.adl/committee/darkside) got netsplit.
[05:33] trn (~trn@adsl-065-007-181-160.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) got netsplit.
[05:33] J0rd4n (J0rd4n@unaffiliated/j0rd4n) got netsplit.
[05:33] griffonbot (~griffonbo@kraken.habhub.org) got netsplit.
[05:33] danielsaul (~danielsau@ got netsplit.
[05:33] SamSilver (c5573e65@gateway/web/freenode/ip. got netsplit.
[05:33] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@2a01:348:117::666) got netsplit.
[05:33] UpuWork (~Upu@2a02:b80:12:1:d4c0:c599:3103:f78d) got netsplit.
[05:33] kristianpaul (~kristianp@unaffiliated/kristianpaul) got netsplit.
[05:33] Upu (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:7d8d:ed29:dde0:d9c9) got netsplit.
[05:33] Tiger^ (tygrys@moo.pl) got netsplit.
[05:33] joph (~joph@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:46ab:47ee:35a9) got netsplit.
[05:33] nick____ (~nick_@cpc5-oxfd23-2-0-cust350.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] pjm (~pjm@ got netsplit.
[05:33] phuzion (~phuzion@ got netsplit.
[05:33] weissbier (y0gzD0j58O@2001:470:7a5e::) got netsplit.
[05:33] simrun (~simrun@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-qpbnipmtaunbivys) got netsplit.
[05:33] Randomskk (~adam@paladin.randomskk.net) got netsplit.
[05:33] KingJ (~kj@2001:41d0:8:408b::1) got netsplit.
[05:33] staylo (~staylo@unaffiliated/staylo) got netsplit.
[05:33] er1k757 (~erik@tornado.beebe.cc) got netsplit.
[05:33] jonsowman (~jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] Bryanstein (~Bryanstei@shellium/admin/bryanstein) got netsplit.
[05:33] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) got netsplit.
[05:33] kopijs (~backup@ got netsplit.
[05:33] DrLuke (~Im@p57926DDB.dip.t-dialin.net) got netsplit.
[05:33] psophis (~golddrago@24-107-10-126.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] craag (~ircterm@thecraag.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] KT5TK_QRL (~thomas@ got netsplit.
[05:33] TylerD (~TylerD@unaffiliated/tylerd) got netsplit.
[05:33] ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) got netsplit.
[05:33] bcw-AFK (~bcw@winston.chrisw.net) got netsplit.
[05:33] jiffe98 (~jiffe@nsab.us) got netsplit.
[05:33] oh7lzb (hessu@he.fi) got netsplit.
[05:33] gonzo_mob (~gonzo_mob@ got netsplit.
[05:33] GeekShadow (~antoine@ got netsplit.
[05:33] ms7821 (~Mark@rack.ms) got netsplit.
[05:33] benoxley (~benoxley@kryten.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[05:33] bfirsh (u1308@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cbimcvowehjryapt) got netsplit.
[05:33] shenki (~joel@ got netsplit.
[05:41] aetaric (~aetaric@dustinessington.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] danielsaul (~danielsau@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] Darkside (~Darkside@compsci.adl/committee/darkside) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] eroomde (~ed@kraken.habhub.org) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] costyn (~costyn@lolcathost.quanza.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] griffonbot (~griffonbo@kraken.habhub.org) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] skor_ (~skor@unaffiliated/skor) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] J0rd4n (J0rd4n@unaffiliated/j0rd4n) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] mattbrejza (~mattbrejz@kryten.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] stilldavid (~david@stilldavid.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] astevens (~astevens@caosvm2.osuosl.org) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] natrium42 (~alexei@d24-150-92-187.home.cgocable.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] jevin_ (~jevin@napalm.jevinskie.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] iamdanw (u459@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzxabbgrmwmafrfs) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] gartt (~gart@ip68-0-205-248.ri.ri.cox.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkjlyxraytxwxlli) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] KT5TK (~thomas@c-76-30-70-108.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] earthshine (~Mike@cpc1-orpi1-0-0-cust99.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] zyp (zyp@zyp.im) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] ckuethe (~ckuethe@node0.mainframe.cx) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] russss (users.30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwpeitjcuxqfoapp) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] chaoshax (~chaoshax@cpc5-swin15-2-0-cust121.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] grummund (~user@unaffiliated/grummund) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] gonzo_ (~gonzo@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] SamSilver (c5573e65@gateway/web/freenode/ip. returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] G0DJA (~chatzilla@88-97-37-189.dsl.zen.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] DrLuke (~Im@p57926DDB.dip.t-dialin.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] psophis (~golddrago@24-107-10-126.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] KT5TK_QRL (~thomas@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] craag (~ircterm@thecraag.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] TylerD (~TylerD@unaffiliated/tylerd) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] bcw-AFK (~bcw@winston.chrisw.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] jiffe98 (~jiffe@nsab.us) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] oh7lzb (hessu@he.fi) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] weissbier (y0gzD0j58O@2001:470:7a5e::) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] simrun (~simrun@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-qpbnipmtaunbivys) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] Randomskk (~adam@paladin.randomskk.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] KingJ (~kj@2001:41d0:8:408b::1) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] staylo (~staylo@unaffiliated/staylo) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] er1k757 (~erik@tornado.beebe.cc) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] jonsowman (~jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] tioukcom (~tioukcom@rtr-stoke.theinternet.org.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] lindas (users.5111@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmtgnhtmureqylwg) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] fsphil (~fsphil@2001:8b0:34:1:1::2) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@2a01:348:117::666) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] UpuWork (~Upu@2a02:b80:12:1:d4c0:c599:3103:f78d) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] kristianpaul (~kristianp@unaffiliated/kristianpaul) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] Upu (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:7d8d:ed29:dde0:d9c9) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] Tiger^ (tygrys@moo.pl) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] joph (~joph@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:46ab:47ee:35a9) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] Bryanstein (~Bryanstei@shellium/admin/bryanstein) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:41] kopijs (~backup@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] gonzo_mob (~gonzo_mob@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] GeekShadow (~antoine@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] ms7821 (~Mark@rack.ms) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] benoxley (~benoxley@kryten.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] bfirsh (u1308@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cbimcvowehjryapt) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] shenki (~joel@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] nick____ (~nick_@cpc5-oxfd23-2-0-cust350.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] pjm (~pjm@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] phuzion (~phuzion@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] priyesh (~priyesh@unaffiliated/priyesh) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] mattltm (~mattltm@ returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:42] trn (~trn@adsl-065-007-181-160.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[05:43] zamabe (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) joined #highaltitude.
[05:44] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) got lost in the net-split.
[05:53] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
[06:00] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:35] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:48] zamabe_ (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) joined #highaltitude.
[06:50] zamabe (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[07:18] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Bessant "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
[07:26] <fsphil> morn
[07:27] <Upu> morning
[07:28] <daveake> morning
[07:28] <SamSilver> time for third coffee
[07:28] <daveake> Upu How close is this to your domicile? http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f3f76d38fc251ab3ae0dfee2fbe2694533247974
[07:28] <Upu> 5 miles
[07:29] <Upu> about 2 miles from Rob Harrison
[07:29] <daveake> HAB points for getting closer? Much closer? :)
[07:29] <Upu> Daves coming to Bradford Daves coming to Bradford
[07:29] <daveake> Gave passport can travel
[07:29] <daveake> H
[07:32] SelfishMan (~SelfishMa@office2.rabidmonkey.org) joined #highaltitude.
[07:32] <Upu> tbh thats too close to Halifax center
[07:32] <daveake> It's a no-go on that prediction, frankly
[07:32] <daveake> But it'll change no doubt
[07:33] <Upu> north of Bradford/leeds is gine
[07:33] <Upu> fine
[07:33] <fsphil> it'll change a lot
[07:33] <daveake> Don't want to hit anyone. Even northerners
[07:33] <Upu> and if you go west its fine but rough country
[07:34] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[07:34] <daveake> Need rough car then :)
[07:34] <Upu> also there are some socking great wind turbines close to that landing spot
[07:34] <daveake> Should make for an interesting altitude plit
[07:34] <daveake> plot
[07:35] <daveake> Anyway, as usual I'll take a screenshot each day to see how it progresses
[07:35] <Upu> so you want me to amend the hourly predictor to your launch location ?
[07:35] <daveake> Oh, yes please
[07:35] <fsphil> I broke my hourly thing
[07:35] <fsphil> must get that going again
[07:36] <Upu> 53.2257 359.0002 launch 30k burst 5 m/s ascent
[07:36] <daveake> 53.2257,-0.9998
[07:36] <daveake> yeah
[07:36] <daveake> justamo re the alt
[07:37] <daveake> Yeah use those figures. Close enough.
[07:37] <daveake> Not got the payload weight yet
[07:37] <Upu> ok its running
[07:37] <Upu> http://hourly.upuaut.net check back in 30
[07:37] <daveake> BUt it'll probably be around 900g, with 800g Hwoyee then 5/30km is about right
[07:38] <daveake> tvm
[08:01] zamabe_ (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) left irc: Quit: Do you remember where I left that lego?
[08:03] zamabe (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) joined #highaltitude.
[08:11] <Upu> its done daveake http://hourly.upuaut.net/
[08:23] <daveake> back
[08:23] <daveake> Ta :)
[08:23] <daveake> wiggly
[08:24] <daveake> I'll watch with interest as next Saturday (we only have that 1 day) approaches
[08:28] <Darkside> oh you did one of those too :P
[08:28] <Darkside> we have one of those
[08:28] <Darkside> live them
[08:28] <Darkside> love em*
[08:31] zamabe (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) left irc: Quit: Do you remember where I left that lego?
[08:32] <eroomde> who is mike bessant
[08:46] <eroomde> anywat g'morning everyone
[08:46] <daveake> g'day
[08:47] <jonsowman> morning ed
[08:47] <eroomde> today is the day of me having my first phall
[08:47] <eroomde> it's looming this evening like a cage fight
[08:48] <daveake> red letter day today
[08:48] <daveake> red bum day tomorrow
[08:48] <Darkside> phall?
[08:49] <daveake> as you enter the P'Hall of Fame
[08:49] <daveake> very hot curry
[08:49] <Darkside> oh
[08:49] <daveake> http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/2092926.curry_lovers_take_on_hottest_ever_dish_for_charity/
[08:51] <eroomde> i am worried about the bum thing
[08:51] <eroomde> i usually suffer a lot worse during round 2 with spicy things
[08:51] <eroomde> i wonder if there are any kind of mitigation techniques
[08:51] MrScienceMan (~zo@ joined #highaltitude.
[08:51] <eroomde> vaseline or something
[08:51] <daveake> pile cream
[08:52] <eroomde> i didn't know that exists
[08:53] <eroomde> but cool
[08:53] <daveake> apparently so
[08:53] <eroomde> tho i'm not sure i could buy it in a chemist with a straight face
[08:53] <daveake> lol
[08:53] <eroomde> might be like buying condoms 15 years ago
[08:54] <daveake> Maybe life can be plotted as a series of embarassing things to buy from the chemist at that age
[08:54] <eroomde> :)
[08:55] <eroomde> hair dye
[08:55] <eroomde> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2C9lo60V65Q/TtZiu3tGADI/AAAAAAAABA0/Ww3iHZz-0pI/s400/MagnumPI.PNG
[09:02] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[09:19] zamabe (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) joined #highaltitude.
[09:29] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[09:35] mclane (4fcf57f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[09:52] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-143-55-252.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:58] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:01] MLow (~mlow@ left irc: Quit: leaving
[10:02] MLow (~MLow@ joined #highaltitude.
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> wohoo
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> rtl-sdr working
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> with gqrx
[10:07] <Laurenceb_> ive got an elonics e4000 based tuner too - all perfect
[10:07] <Darkside> nice
[10:07] <Laurenceb_> had to delve into the project config file
[10:08] <Laurenceb_> and fix some stuff then it built ok
[10:09] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-245-160.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[10:10] <fsphil> make sure your rtl-sdr has the protection diode
[10:10] <Laurenceb_> bbc radio4 is odd
[10:11] <Laurenceb_> very small modulaion
[10:11] <Laurenceb_> arg
[10:11] <Laurenceb_> modulation
[10:11] <Laurenceb_> why?
[10:11] <Laurenceb_> just for esd?
[10:11] <fsphil> yea, upu had one self destruct
[10:11] <Laurenceb_> ah
[10:12] <Laurenceb_> havent dismantled it yet
[10:12] <fsphil> some have them, some don't
[10:12] <fsphil> I've two, one with and one without
[10:12] <Upu> do it before you plug anything in thats larger than the antenna it comes with
[10:12] <Laurenceb_> ok
[10:12] <Laurenceb_> yeah ive got mcx to sma adaptors
[10:14] nick____ (~nick_@cpc5-oxfd23-2-0-cust350.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: leaving
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> atm i have a paperclip stuck in it
[10:28] WillDuckworth (~will@host109-145-148-97.range109-145.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:30] zamabe (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) left irc: Quit: Do you remember where I left that lego?
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> ooh no diode populated
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> oops
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> nice simple board, like the fact it has a smps to 3.3v
[10:44] <Laurenceb_> now i need to find a suitable diode
[10:46] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[11:08] mclane (4fcf57f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:15] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> the usb3 stuff would work
[11:35] G4DPZ (~G4DPZ@cpc33-dudl11-2-0-cust170.16-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:58] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:04] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[12:09] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[12:19] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[12:20] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[12:31] <DrLuke> wait, do I need usb3 for those magic SDRs?
[12:31] <daveake> no
[12:31] <DrLuke> phew
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> i meant usb3 esd protection
[12:33] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:35] <fsphil> the missing part is http://octopart.com/bav99-fairchild+semiconductor-13167770
[12:35] <fsphil> they can be soldered onto the board, there's an empty pad for them
[12:36] <Darkside> hrm
[12:36] <Darkside> what i don't get about those, is they should provide a dc path to ground
[12:36] <fsphil> they should yea, diode both ways
[12:36] <Darkside> hrm
[12:36] <Randomskk> they do
[12:36] <Randomskk> ESD is quite significantly more than the diode forward voltage
[12:36] <Darkside> yet when i biased the input on my rtl dongle to 5v, it didn't complain
[12:37] <Darkside> unless i blew it up without noticing
[12:37] <Darkside> well, blew up one of the diodes
[12:37] <DrLuke> GG
[12:37] <fsphil> is there a resistor between the diodes and ground?
[12:37] <Darkside> nope
[12:37] <Darkside> that would kind of defeat the purpose
[12:38] <Darkside> i'll just remove L2 from my preamp boards
[12:39] <Darkside> oh dammit, i should have got Upu to mail the preamp ICs in the same package as the rest of the stuff i ordered
[12:39] <Darkside> oh well, i'll just have to bring the pcbs over with me
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> hmm intresting
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> thatks fsphil
[12:49] <fsphil> I'll get the preamp rigged up later today, see how well it rejects tetra
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> is the part number on the populated ones then?
[12:49] <fsphil> I believe so
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> its interesting - the total capacitance is quite high
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if the front end is impedance matched to accommodate the diode capacitance
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> or if there a two versions of the BOM
[12:51] <Laurenceb_> which boards do you have?
[12:51] <Laurenceb_> mine is realtek+e4000 black dongle and says USB HDTV Stick on the top
[12:51] <fsphil> I've got two of the ezcap ones
[12:51] <Laurenceb_> Bus 002 Device 007: ID 0bda:2838 Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
[12:51] <fsphil> both with an e4000
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> how big
[12:52] <fsphil> hmm.. lemme see
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> mine is 19x53mm with cap removed
[12:53] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> wtf - why do i have 5 usb 1.1 busses
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> all with one hub connected
[12:54] <fsphil> this would be easier if I had a ruler
[12:54] <Laurenceb_> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 17ef:481c Lenovo <- intriguing
[12:54] <Laurenceb_> bet its the "ThinkVantage" button lol
[12:55] <fsphil> 86mm long, 28mm wide
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> im just thinking the parasitic capacitance could cause fairly significant issues, especially if we wanted to use higher frequencies
[12:56] <fsphil> without the cap
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> oh you have the bigger ones
[12:56] <fsphil> only difference between the two is the lack of the esd diode
[12:56] <nosebleedkt> bad news guys
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> hmm this is annoying
[12:56] <nosebleedkt> could not recover
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> need to match it
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> :(
[12:57] <fsphil> nosebleedkt: tree?
[12:57] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/531578_495111693836213_252611328_n.jpg
[12:57] <nosebleedkt> nowhere
[12:57] <fsphil> how far where you from the coordinates there?
[12:57] <fsphil> also, what a view!
[12:57] <daveake> looks like fun
[12:57] <fsphil> the trees don't look too huge
[12:57] <nosebleedkt> man there must some mistakes in telemetry or something else
[12:58] <nosebleedkt> some things were wrong
[12:58] <Randomskk> it can be really hard to see payloads in forests
[12:58] <Randomskk> even with gps coordinates
[12:58] <fsphil> +1
[12:58] <Randomskk> once I had precise gps coords
[12:58] <Randomskk> and a handheld gps
[12:58] <fsphil> I stood underneath one for ages before seeing it
[12:58] <daveake> couldn't see mine in the triffids
[12:58] <Randomskk> and we walked until we were exactly coincident
[12:58] <daveake> walked into it
[12:58] <Randomskk> and it still took about 20 minutes for one of us to finally spot it
[12:58] <Randomskk> and another five for the rest of us to see where it was while being pointed at it
[12:58] <fsphil> I think I circled the same tree about 10 times
[12:59] <Randomskk> and this was a silver covered box with flourescent orange parachute
[12:59] <fsphil> ah, silver
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> one of jcoxons balloons landed near my house
[12:59] <fsphil> yea I learned that lesson :)
[12:59] <Randomskk> :P
[12:59] <fsphil> silver: just say no
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> took me 2 hours standing under the tree to spot it
[12:59] <Randomskk> but it looks pretty
[12:59] <fsphil> no mater how spacy and cool it looks
[12:59] <Randomskk> and is fine anywhere besides up trees :P
[12:59] <fsphil> true
[12:59] <fsphil> lol
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> i thought it was in the field
[12:59] <nosebleedkt> the last reported position from backup recovery system was saying an altitude of 250m. Putting that position in google earth shows and elevation of 650m. Something were wrong. So we guessed that the position was also wrong.
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> spent hours searching before i tried looking in the one tree
[13:00] <fsphil> gps altitude can be a bit weird
[13:00] <Randomskk> nosebleedkt: neither of those altitudes will be very accurate
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> hmm what to do...
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> lowest capacitance esd protection or bav99
[13:00] <nosebleedkt> i believe a Radio direction detector will be a handy thing
[13:00] MrScienc1Man (~zo@ joined #highaltitude.
[13:01] <fsphil> nah, radio direction finding helicopter
[13:01] <fsphil> preferably black
[13:01] <Randomskk> :P
[13:01] <fsphil> I'm surprised it got a gsm signal in there nosebleedkt
[13:01] <nosebleedkt> man GSM was so ok
[13:02] <fsphil> are you going to try again? launching that is
[13:03] <nosebleedkt> yes, we had a discussion for a 2nd mission
[13:03] <nosebleedkt> but I will surely ask to people to provide some money to buy the things
[13:03] MrScienceMan (~zo@ left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[13:03] <fsphil> yea
[13:03] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] Insurance"
[13:03] <fsphil> good that you're trying again -- a lost payload can be a bit depressing
[13:04] <fsphil> worse one that's just out of reach
[13:04] <nosebleedkt> the idol I spotted yesterday in the zoomed picture, we could not find where we took the picture
[13:04] <nosebleedkt> its so bad forest
[13:04] <nosebleedkt> we came across some vipers too
[13:05] <fsphil> cool!
[13:05] <nosebleedkt> lol !
[13:05] <fsphil> at a distance I hope :)
[13:05] <fsphil> at least there's no drop bears there
[13:06] <daveake> true
[13:06] <nosebleedkt> no bears there
[13:07] <Darkside> haha
[13:07] <nosebleedkt> only angry black pigs
[13:07] <Darkside> drop bears EVERYWHERe here
[13:07] <nosebleedkt> and snakes
[13:07] <Darkside> i have to avoid them on the way to uni
[13:07] <fsphil> in the UK there is generally only angry cows and sheep
[13:07] <fsphil> maybe the odd annoyed goat
[13:08] <nosebleedkt> :P
[13:09] <fsphil> btw I was looking up who owns the land where my second flight might have landed -- and it turns out to be a live firing range for the military
[13:09] <fsphil> I'm gonna have to be quick
[13:10] <nosebleedkt> ouf
[13:10] <nosebleedkt> 3 years for nothing
[13:10] <nosebleedkt> :P
[13:10] <fsphil> not nothing, you'll have the next one ready in no time
[13:10] <daveake> yep
[13:11] <daveake> Only one thing to do after you lose a payload
[13:11] <daveake> Try again
[13:11] <fsphil> and if you think you might lose it, tell everyone that was the plan all along
[13:12] <fsphil> how many messages did you get from the gsm module nosebleedkt?
[13:12] <nosebleedkt> 5-6
[13:13] <fsphil> and they where all from the same place?
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> it only responded when i send sms
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> yes
[13:13] <fsphil> identical or did it vary a bit?
[13:13] <daveake> and did they agree with the aprs?
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> 082550,40.7197,23.267,-36 --> First lock before lift
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> 113322,40.8420,23.391,629 --> Last point before land
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> 114105,40.8413,23.408,265 --> Landing point
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> 114212,40.8413,23.408,265 --> Landing point
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> 122210,40.8413,23.408,270 --> Landing point
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> 135356,40.8413,23.408,263 --> Landing point
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> 170916,40.8413,23.408,267 --> Landing point. Last message.
[13:14] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[13:14] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[13:15] <nosebleedkt> if you google-earth 40.8413,23.408 its elevation is 650m
[13:15] <nosebleedkt> 625m
[13:15] <nosebleedkt> and last point before land was also of same altitude
[13:16] <Darkside> would have been useful to have some kind of sat nunber indicator
[13:16] <Darkside> then you get an idea of how accurate the position is
[13:20] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[13:25] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:27] |ezra| (~|ezra|@adsl-065-083-172-115.sip.mco.bellsouth.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:30] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[13:31] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[13:33] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:38] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[13:50] BrainDamage2 (~yaaic@dynamic-adsl-94-36-245-160.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[13:53] BrainDamage2 (~yaaic@dynamic-adsl-94-36-245-160.clienti.tiscali.it) left irc: Client Quit
[13:57] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... With decimal degrees, wouldn't you want 5 digits after the decimal point to get a position better than the usual jitter in a GPS?
[13:58] <Darkside> yeah, we usually use 5 digits
[14:03] <MrScienc1Man> how acurate is 5 digits?
[14:03] <Darkside> more than good enough
[14:03] <Randomskk> depends on where you are
[14:04] <Darkside> that too
[14:05] <Darkside> but 5 digits is perfectly fine to locate your payload
[14:05] <Randomskk> yea
[14:05] <MrScienc1Man> wiki says 5 digits is 1.11m accuracy
[14:05] <MrScienc1Man> near the equator
[14:05] <Randomskk> in latitude
[14:05] <Randomskk> longitude it depends on how close to the poles you are
[14:15] mclane (4fcf57f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[14:19] Wil5on (~Wil5on@compsci.adl/eternalpresident/wil5on) joined #highaltitude.
[14:23] mclane (4fcf57f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[14:23] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "Re: [UKHAS] Insurance"
[14:24] uli (~uli@p4FCF57F1.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:32] uli (~uli@p4FCF57F1.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[14:37] gb73d (gb73d@81-178-180-248.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:47] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[14:48] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[15:01] |ezra| (~|ezra|@adsl-065-083-172-115.sip.mco.bellsouth.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[15:02] |ezra| (~|ezra|@adsl-065-083-172-115.sip.mco.bellsouth.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:15] nick_ (~nick_@cpc5-oxfd23-2-0-cust350.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:26] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[15:26] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[15:40] Wil5on (~Wil5on@compsci.adl/eternalpresident/wil5on) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[16:00] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:09] Burninate (~Burn@pool-72-83-254-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:12] MrScienc1Man (~zo@ left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[16:12] MrScienceMan (~zo@ joined #highaltitude.
[16:41] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[16:41] <Laurenceb_> theres a DC blocking cap on the rf input to the e4000
[16:41] <Laurenceb_> and thats it
[16:41] <Laurenceb_> no other matching
[16:42] <Laurenceb_> so it should be safe with a few hundered volts of ESD
[16:45] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[17:15] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:15] <Upu> is there 3 pads with nothing on Laurenceb ? if not it don't use big antenna
[17:19] <nosebleedkt> ouf !
[17:20] <Upu> got it back ?
[17:21] <nosebleedkt> o :(
[17:21] <gonzo_mob> i doubt the size of the ant will be the issue
[17:22] <gonzo_mob> whether it's DC grounded is more important
[17:28] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[17:32] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:36] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[17:41] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:45] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:49] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:53] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[17:56] <Laurenceb_> i suspect you were unlucky with static
[17:56] <Laurenceb_> was it a grounded ant?
[17:58] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:58] <Upu> its not grounded
[17:58] <Upu> but why risk it for a 3p diode
[18:01] |ezra|_ (~|ezra|@adsl-065-083-172-115.sip.mco.bellsouth.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:02] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[18:03] daveake_ (5549f119@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] |ezra| (~|ezra|@adsl-065-083-172-115.sip.mco.bellsouth.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[18:07] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[18:08] qwebirc82443 (5549f119@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[18:08] <daveake_> Hello
[18:08] <daveake> eh?
[18:09] <daveake> Wasn't me :)
[18:09] <qwebirc82443> Hello Dave can you tell me more about high altitude balloon
[18:10] <daveake> nope - eating. brb. Try the other one :)
[18:10] <Upu> evening qwebirc82443
[18:10] <Upu> what are you wanting to know ?
[18:10] SelfishMan (~SelfishMa@office2.rabidmonkey.org) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[18:11] <qwebirc82443> I learning about this and i wood like some help
[18:11] <Upu> ok which country are you based in ?
[18:11] <qwebirc82443> Greece
[18:11] <qwebirc82443> but From UK
[18:12] <Upu> Oh ok I think we have someone from Greece who launched recently
[18:12] <Upu> anyway so what are you wanting to achieve ?
[18:12] SelfishMan (~SelfishMa@office2.rabidmonkey.org) joined #highaltitude.
[18:12] <qwebirc82443> video
[18:13] <qwebirc82443> and some tracking
[18:13] <Upu> yep helps if you can get it back
[18:14] <Upu> well ok I think over there APRS might be your best option , though you can make a RTTY tracker and follow it yourself
[18:14] <qwebirc82443> ok
[18:15] <Upu> have you used a microcontroller before such as the Arduino ?
[18:15] gonzo_mob (~gonzo_mob@ left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[18:15] <qwebirc82443> can you email me talk about this ?
[18:16] <Upu> why are you online as daveake_ as well as qwebirc82443 ?
[18:16] <qwebirc82443> ?
[18:16] gonzo_mob (~gonzo_mob@ joined #highaltitude.
[18:16] <Upu> daveake_ is 5549f119@gateway/web/freenode/ip. * athedsl-305531.home.otenet.gr/
[18:16] <Upu> qwebirc82443 is 5549f119@gateway/web/freenode/ip. * athedsl-305531.home.otenet.gr/
[18:17] <qwebirc82443> Both the Same Sorry
[18:17] daveake_ (5549f119@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[18:17] <Upu> probably best you kill that one thanks
[18:17] <qwebirc82443> ok done
[18:17] <Upu> The best advice I can give you is go look at the Wiki here : http://ukhas.org.uk
[18:17] <Upu> have a good read and come up with a plan of what you want to do
[18:18] <Upu> then you probably need to chat to the guy who launched from Greece recently
[18:18] <qwebirc82443> I have reading this and i wood like more information about buying the part to build and software of traking
[18:18] <Upu> nosebleedkt ?
[18:18] <Upu> software you will have to write yourself
[18:19] <qwebirc82443> Micrsoft C# , C++
[18:19] <Upu> and you'll have to make the hardware there is no off the shelf tracker (slight lie there is one in the US for APRS)
[18:19] <Upu> depends which microcontroller you choosd
[18:19] <Upu> choose
[18:19] <qwebirc82443> what do you used?
[18:19] <Upu> I have a custom one based on Arduino
[18:20] <Upu> Alot of people use picaxe
[18:20] <Upu> generally a real time O/S one is preferable over something like a Pi / Gadgeteer
[18:20] <qwebirc82443> I have New to this and you give me a exmaple of the software code
[18:21] <Upu> there is no specific example code out there
[18:21] <Upu> there are many example code snippets on the UKHAS wiki
[18:21] <Upu> you'll need to tie them altogether though
[18:21] <qwebirc82443> what ballon do you used
[18:21] <daveake> big round one
[18:22] <daveake> Totex and Hwoyee make them
[18:22] <qwebirc82443> were do you buy all this things
[18:22] <Upu> http://www.randomsolutions.co.uk
[18:22] <Upu> but really the balloon is the easy bit
[18:22] <daveake> Before you get into software you need to decide what tracking to use.
[18:23] <daveake> Our Greek friend used APRS
[18:23] <daveake> Of which I know nothing :)
[18:23] <jonsowman> APRS is fun
[18:24] <jonsowman> and agreed, that is probably your best bet
[18:24] <qwebirc82443> if possibe can you email at contact@securesign.co.uk with the information to get started on saw i can better idea what i need and were to buy and which best
[18:24] <Upu> its all on the Wiki qwebirc82443
[18:25] <Upu> you need to do some back ground research we can't just give you a list you go buy and put it together
[18:25] <qwebirc82443> i bin reading the wiki
[18:26] <jonsowman> read the wiki and some other project writeups, then ask any further questions on here if you can't find the answers anywhere else
[18:26] <qwebirc82443> you bin a great help
[18:27] <qwebirc82443> i just wanted i know more information about gps , tracking , Ballon , Video ,computer and etc
[18:27] <qwebirc82443> were to buy
[18:27] <Upu> yeah the projects pages link to peoples own wikis
[18:27] <Upu> thats where I started
[18:28] <qwebirc82443> Wood like to do something like this http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=592
[18:28] <Upu> wouldn't we all
[18:28] <Randomskk> qwebirc82443: not that I don't understand what you mean, but you probably mean "would" not "wood"
[18:29] <qwebirc82443> sorry would
[18:29] <Randomskk> it's no problem.
[18:29] <Upu> qwebirc82443 may I ask how old you are ?
[18:29] <qwebirc82443> 19
[18:29] <Upu> ok at college ?
[18:30] <qwebirc82443> no running a business
[18:30] <qwebirc82443> Certificate Authority Selling SSL Certificate
[18:30] <Upu> ok fair enough, alot of schools & colleges help out with stuff like this
[18:30] <Upu> ah you sell fresh air and good will
[18:31] <qwebirc82443> ? (sell fresh air and good will)
[18:31] <Upu> Ok remember Dave who did the Pi launch has had alot of experience
[18:31] <Upu> so I'd start simple, on the wiki is a projects link, go read up on other peoples projects
[18:31] <Upu> decide what microcontroller you want to use
[18:31] <Upu> work out how to make it do APRS
[18:31] <Upu> work out who to use a GPS with it
[18:32] <qwebirc82443> i know a lot about programming c# C++ will that do
[18:32] <Upu> link those together
[18:32] <qwebirc82443> or php
[18:32] <Upu> I'm sure it will help
[18:32] <Upu> not so much PHP
[18:32] <qwebirc82443> Were Do you buy the ARPS
[18:33] <qwebirc82443> APRS
[18:33] <Upu> do you know what APRS is ?
[18:33] <qwebirc82443> no
[18:33] <Upu> Thats where you need to start then
[18:33] <Upu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_System
[18:34] <qwebirc82443> ok
[18:34] <Upu> people here will be happy to help but your not going to get the tracker on a plate
[18:34] <qwebirc82443> would you like to know my name
[18:34] <Upu> isure
[18:34] <Upu> I thought it was qwebirc82443 ? :)
[18:35] <qwebirc82443> James Burton
[18:35] <Upu> ok James well go read up on APRS
[18:35] <Upu> understand it, then work out how to make a microcontroller do it
[18:35] <Upu> p.s it took me a year and a bit from first joining here to flying
[18:36] <qwebirc82443> how hign does it go on the first flight
[18:37] <Upu> depends on how heavy your payload is, how much gas is in it, what sized balloon etc
[18:37] <Upu> keep you payload as light as possible
[18:37] <qwebirc82443> 1000g with a 100 - 200 g payload
[18:37] <Upu> thats light if it has a camera on it
[18:37] <Upu> 34km
[18:38] <Upu> maybe more maybe less
[18:38] <Upu> 200g is a good weight to aim for
[18:38] <qwebirc82443> what recommecod
[18:38] <Upu> 10p says you miss it by 500g
[18:38] <Randomskk> http://cusf.co.uk/calc can help you estiamte
[18:38] <Upu> trouble is James you have no idea what is going in your payload at this time, so you've no idea on the weight
[18:39] <Upu> so take a step back
[18:39] |ezra|_ (~|ezra|@adsl-065-083-172-115.sip.mco.bellsouth.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[18:40] <qwebirc82443> the basic
[18:40] <qwebirc82443> for flight
[18:41] <qwebirc82443> Gps and Create some software for tracking the flight
[18:43] <qwebirc82443> ok thank you to everyone who help me
[18:43] <Upu> not a problem
[18:44] <qwebirc82443> if you can please email me i get back to you if possible
[18:44] <daveake> I wouldn't get too worried about weight and trying to achieve some arbitrary target like 200g
[18:44] <daveake> Find out what you need to fly first
[18:44] <daveake> APRS kit isn't light I believe
[18:44] <daveake> Video will be 200g on its own
[18:45] <daveake> Just try and keep it all below 1kg
[18:45] <daveake> Then when it's built you can look at balloon sizes etc
[18:46] <daveake> Highly recommend you read the wiki rather than emailing people individually
[18:46] <daveake> Saves them typing up what's in the wiki :)
[18:47] <daveake> Exception would be finding out specific stuff - e.g. permission (or lack of) and helium suppliers in Greece
[18:47] <qwebirc82443> would it be better not having video for the first time just the basics
[18:47] <Upu> bingo
[18:47] <Upu> keep it simple at first
[18:47] <daveake> Just getting tracked and getting it back is good
[18:47] <Upu> try a cheap Canon A560 camera
[18:47] <daveake> Everyone tries to do too much at first
[18:47] <Upu> that can do video
[18:48] <Upu> and if you loost it then its cheap
[18:48] <daveake> Took me 11 flights (I think) to get to live video for example
[18:48] <Upu> if your trying to replicate the video from the Pi launch that was done on a £300 GoPro camera that had 3 trackers on it to ensure we got it back
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> Upu: yeah but the wrong diode will muck up the impedance matching on the dongle
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> thats what im presently investigating
[18:49] <Upu> Laurenceb its the same diode on all the boards, they all use the same reference schematic
[18:49] <Upu> I can post you some if you want one
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> hiring a network analyser to take a closer look
[18:49] <Upu> lol
[18:49] <Upu> £12 dongle 3p diode
[18:49] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> - from other dept at work
[18:49] <Upu> ah ok :)
[18:49] <Upu> let me know your findings
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> np
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> do you have the reference schematic?
[18:50] <qwebirc82443> can i used the Raspberry Pi or not
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> brb
[18:50] <daveake> NOT recommended
[18:50] <daveake> You can; I did, but only with 2 other trackers attached to the same balloon
[18:50] <daveake> Look at Arduinos
[18:51] <daveake> Less power; lighter; easier to connect sensors; more help here; probably more reliable
[18:52] <qwebirc82443> will Microsoft Visual Studio 2012 RC do for coding
[18:52] <daveake> No, you need a compiler that generates code for the board, not one for a PC
[18:53] <qwebirc82443> what compiler
[18:53] <Randomskk> depends what microcontroller you use.
[18:53] <daveake> What board
[18:53] <daveake> The Arduinos for example have an IDE that you can download
[18:54] <daveake> But first you need to choose APRS or the system we use in the UK
[18:54] <daveake> Then choose a board
[18:54] <daveake> Then choose the compiler
[18:54] <daveake> And the answer will NOT be Microsoft anything
[18:54] <qwebirc82443> when you started did you used Arduinos and APRS
[18:54] <Upu> we don't use APRS in the UK
[18:54] <Upu> we're not allowed too
[18:55] <qwebirc82443> What are you allowed too used in the ul
[18:55] <qwebirc82443> uk
[18:55] <Upu> We use RTTY
[18:55] <qwebirc82443> because i wood do it in the uk
[18:56] <BrainDamage> they send that 80s style teleprinter on the balloon
[18:56] <daveake> s/wood/would
[18:56] <qwebirc82443> would
[18:56] <daveake> :)
[18:57] <qwebirc82443> ok if i learn about RTTY and Arduinos
[18:57] <daveake> Ton of stuff in the wiki about rtty, tracking, and connecting an Arduino to a radio transmitter
[18:58] <daveake> You'll need a suitable radio receiver
[18:58] <qwebirc82443> 10 mw
[19:00] <qwebirc82443> http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:guides
[19:00] <daveake> A little goes a long way
[19:01] <qwebirc82443> this someone created this : High Altitude Glider Autopilot ( UAV law)
[19:02] <qwebirc82443> i don't want to create it just asking
[19:02] <daveake> What was the question?
[19:03] <qwebirc82443> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:high_altitude_glider_autopilot
[19:03] <qwebirc82443> i don't want to create it just asking if someone this created it
[19:03] <daveake> Someone created it
[19:03] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[19:04] <qwebirc82443> this it bin done before
[19:04] <Upu> has been
[19:05] <qwebirc82443> did you do it
[19:05] <Upu> no wasn't me
[19:05] <daveake> wasn't me
[19:06] <qwebirc82443> you created i ballom before go over 130000 feet
[19:07] <qwebirc82443> Balloon
[19:08] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[19:10] <qwebirc82443> about the Arduinos which one
[19:11] <qwebirc82443> Arduino Uno
[19:13] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[19:17] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[19:17] <qwebirc82443> Keep Reading on the http://ukhas.org.uk/ and were can you launch the balloon
[19:19] <daveake> That's in the wiki too
[19:20] <daveake> Any question you can think of has many different answers. The best answer varies. You can't choose, and we can't choose for you, where to launch from or what Arduino to use or .... anything else you can think of. Best thing is to read the wiki and learn as much as you can. Then you'll answer the questions yourself, mostly. And don't rush. Some people take 3 years to launch!
[19:20] <costyn> to answer my own question of last week: the adjustment button in the fridge controls both the fridge and freezing unit. :) They're at 8 and -22 degrees now, much better :)
[19:20] <daveake> 99% of them are common pump and control
[19:21] <costyn> qwebirc82443: you are from Greece right? you should contact nosebleedkt here on IRC
[19:21] <costyn> qwebirc82443: https://www.facebook.com/slaros.project
[19:21] <qwebirc82443> but i do launch the ballon in uk
[19:22] <qwebirc82443> because i live in greece of 7 years
[19:22] <costyn> I see
[19:23] <costyn> nosebleedkt: did you find your payload yet?
[19:23] <qwebirc82443> costyn do you libe in greece
[19:23] <qwebirc82443> live
[19:25] <costyn> qwebirc82443: no, I live in the Netherlands
[19:25] <qwebirc82443> In Greece ( Zaktynthos or Zante ) very host 36 C
[19:26] WillDuckworth (~will@host109-145-148-97.range109-145.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat
[19:26] <costyn> daveake: got a real nice military surplus parachute btw, 80cm, 50g and designed for meteo sondes. and it was only 9 euros
[19:26] nick_ (~nick_@cpc5-oxfd23-2-0-cust350.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[19:27] <qwebirc82443> Sorry Zakynthos
[19:27] <costyn> sounds nice
[19:27] <costyn> we're happy with 25C today here
[19:28] <qwebirc82443> Hot 36C
[19:28] <costyn> it's been shitty shitty weather for months
[19:28] <qwebirc82443> Blue Sky
[19:28] <fsphil> raining here
[19:28] <fsphil> yay
[19:30] <qwebirc82443> fsphil it will get very hot > 38C or higher
[19:31] <qwebirc82443> i hope not
[19:31] psophis (~golddrago@24-107-10-126.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[19:31] <fsphil> good luck with that :)
[19:31] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[19:31] <fsphil> it's 20c here atm, and that's quite enough
[19:33] <qwebirc82443> when it is sunny and balloning do you have a good full size image of the UK
[19:33] <qwebirc82443> or etc
[19:35] <fsphil> not all of it, it's often too hazy
[19:35] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/IMG_6480_stitch.jpg <- Northern France, English Channel, Southern England
[19:35] <Upu> thats about as much as you get
[19:37] <qwebirc82443> when at image was take how high was it
[19:37] psophis (~golddrago@24-107-10-126.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:37] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[19:39] <qwebirc82443> Upu : Is This your website http://ava.upuaut.net/
[19:39] <Upu> Yes that is mine
[19:40] <qwebirc82443> http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/picoava.jpg
[19:40] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[19:40] <qwebirc82443> is this something good for starters
[19:40] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[19:40] <Upu> no
[19:41] <Upu> thats a super light payload
[19:41] <qwebirc82443> 50 g
[19:41] <Upu> yeah ish
[19:41] <Upu> was 65g with 2 AA's
[19:41] <Upu> would be <50g with 1 AAA
[19:41] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[19:41] <Upu> but the thing is that does RTTY
[19:42] <qwebirc82443> this not used 9v
[19:42] <Upu> APRS will take more power
[19:42] <Upu> no that used 2 x AA
[19:42] <qwebirc82443> APRS will take more power ( 9v ) example
[19:43] <Upu> I have no idea I've never done it
[19:43] <Upu> power != volts
[19:44] <qwebirc82443> Saw RTTY is for the UK
[19:44] <Upu> its what we use due to the legislation regarding airborne radio transmissions
[19:45] <qwebirc82443> Should i base a type of box like the image
[19:45] <qwebirc82443> with RTTY
[19:46] <Upu> again you've probably jumped a few steps
[19:46] <qwebirc82443> again
[19:46] <Upu> how can you know what box you need when you don't know whats going in it ?
[19:46] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[19:46] <qwebirc82443> i have a idea
[19:46] <qwebirc82443> what going in the box
[19:48] <qwebirc82443> what going in the box ( Sorry About This )
[19:49] <qwebirc82443> went you do the code do you put try { // Code } catch { // Code Fail tried Some thing }
[19:50] <qwebirc82443> base on c#
[19:50] <qwebirc82443> asp.net c#
[19:52] <Upu> I have no idea what your on about sorry
[19:52] <qwebirc82443> upu : http://ava.upuaut.net/?page_id=202
[19:53] <Upu> bit out of date that I should update it
[19:53] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[19:53] mclane (~mclane@p4FCF57F1.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:55] <qwebirc82443> do you used this http://www.daveakerman.com/?page_id=338 and this http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[19:56] <daveake> The SMS thing is a backup only.
[19:57] <daveake> Please, go read the wiki. Twice. I spent 3 months researching before I asked anything here. 95% of what you need to know is out there.
[19:58] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[19:58] <qwebirc82443> http://www.daveakerman.com/?attachment_id=519 this images of a egg is it better design
[19:58] <daveake> By all means ask questions when you can't find something
[19:58] <daveake> There is no "better"
[19:59] <daveake> You can't decide on a ball or box or egg till you know what's going inside.
[19:59] <qwebirc82443> Sorry I keep asking questions but after talk i am getting a idea of what i need and i how would go about
[19:59] <qwebirc82443> it
[20:00] <daveake> Like I said, any question has several different answers. What you need is understanding, then the answers will come
[20:00] <Upu> ok I'm afk for a bit
[20:01] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[20:02] <qwebirc82443> ok thank you for everyone bye
[20:03] qwebirc82443 (5549f119@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left #highaltitude.
[20:05] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[20:09] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[20:10] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[20:14] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[20:18] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[20:23] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[20:25] <griffonbot> Received email: mclane "[UKHAS] Launch in Southern Germany"
[20:27] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[20:27] <fsphil> kev might get to track another launch
[20:31] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[20:34] chr4isstubbs (56b6fa56@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[20:35] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[20:36] Groumpff (020b2e0e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[20:40] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[20:45] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[20:46] <chr4isstubbs> Hi guys, Question RE the NTX2 radio module, is there amy preference between the 434.650 and .075 mhz models?
[20:49] <Randomskk> well
[20:49] <Randomskk> .075 tends to be more likely to suffer from interference with other nearby devices
[20:49] <Randomskk> .650 is the input frequency for a few repeaters
[20:49] <jonsowman> bit more free space path loss at .650 :P
[20:49] <mclane> .650 is at the edge of the ISM band, so perturbations might be lower
[20:49] <Randomskk> don't let that put you off overly
[20:49] <jonsowman> sorry i'm being facecious
[20:50] <Randomskk> I mean the repeaters
[20:50] <Randomskk> the free space path loss is definitely a consideration
[20:50] <Randomskk> but the repeater input shouldn't really factor into your concerns
[20:50] <Randomskk> the other difference is that (and sorry for stating the obvious) they're different frequencies
[20:50] <Randomskk> thus if someone else plans to fly on the same day you want to avoid clashing
[20:50] <Randomskk> basically though
[20:50] <Randomskk> get the 650
[20:50] <Randomskk> to surmise.
[20:51] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp046177132236.access.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[20:52] <chr4isstubbs> Ok great thanks :) I have some rubbish ebay 433mhz transmitters but the range is terrible, thought it must be worth the upgrade before i launch my first HAB
[20:53] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-143-55-252.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[20:53] <fsphil> ntx2 has the advantage of being very well tested
[20:54] <chr4isstubbs> Is UPU's shop still the best place to pick them up?
[20:56] <fsphil> yep
[20:56] <mclane> upu is clearly recommended!
[21:02] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:05] <chr4isstubbs> Ok great i will bite the bullet and get one then, How do i go about getting my 434mhz data onto spacenear.us? Is there a network already set up with radio receivers as my scanner is very poor
[21:08] <Randomskk> well
[21:08] <Randomskk> those are two questions
[21:08] <Randomskk> to answer the second: yes, kinda
[21:08] <Randomskk> it's all home users though, and the general thing is to email the UKHAS list (and say here!) about when your launch is and people will probably tune in to help
[21:09] <Randomskk> to answer the first question, you need to set up a "flight document" that details your payload's config (so like, sentence format and radio details) and it gets put into the system
[21:09] <Randomskk> so dl-fldigi (the decoding software) can automatically decode it, and the backend software can parse it and put it on the map
[21:09] <Randomskk> you can do the latter now, but if you don't plan on launching in the next week or two I'd hold out. there might be some big changes coming fairly soon.
[21:10] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Launch in Southern Germany"
[21:10] <chr4isstubbs> Ok thanks :) i will hold out until hardware etc is ready, are there any reccomended sentance formats? (im planning on using arduino)
[21:11] <Randomskk> well there's an overall protocol you basically must stick to
[21:11] <Randomskk> which looks a bit like $$callsign,count,time,latitude,longitude,altitude,bla,bla,bla*checksum
[21:11] <Randomskk> the details are what order that is in exactly, and what the data at the end is
[21:12] <Randomskk> stuff like temperatures or pressures or other custom things youfeel like reporting
[21:12] <Randomskk> here's an example:
[21:12] <Randomskk> $$WOMBAT,35,06:55:19,52.19903,0.10559,128*E6A6
[21:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] Launch in Southern Germany"
[21:16] <chr4isstubbs> Ok think i have found some suitable code on ukhas.org.uk, i will have a play when my transmitter turns up. One last question: will dl-fldigi work with my 434 scanner plugged into my line-in port for testing? (i have used MRP40 before)
[21:16] <Randomskk> yes, it should be fine
[21:17] <fsphil> does it have SSB? (LSB/USB)
[21:18] <chr4isstubbs> Im afraid i have no idea what SSB is haha, it has a rusty looking phono connector on the back i used to use with a RCA to 3.5mm cable in my laptop
[21:19] <Randomskk> SSB is single side band AM demodulation
[21:19] <Randomskk> (vs say FM)
[21:19] <chr4isstubbs> I will go and grab it and take a look
[21:20] <mclane> Radomskk: what kind of changes are planned for thr tracker?
[21:21] <Upu> ping chr4isstubbs
[21:21] <Randomskk> mclane: user-facing it'l basically just be a nicer flight document generator.
[21:22] <mclane> ok, that means no change in the telegram structure?
[21:22] <Randomskk> correct
[21:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] Launch in Southern Germany"
[21:29] Lunar_Lander (~gd-compto@p54A06739.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> someone wrote in the insurance thread that a payload had landed on the railway in East Anglia and someone else asked what has happened then but got no answer yet
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> can anyone answer?
[21:29] <Randomskk> they got it off the railway
[21:29] <Randomskk> what do you think?
[21:30] <Randomskk> nb: I haven't actually been told.
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. did they call Network Rail and so on
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> what flight was it?
[21:32] mclane (~mclane@p4FCF57F1.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[21:45] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[21:47] gb73d (gb73d@81-178-180-248.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: Quit: Whoosh we're gone
[21:49] jcoxon (~jcoxon@ joined #highaltitude.
[21:55] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[21:55] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[21:55] <jcoxon> not bad thanks
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> nice to hear that
[21:56] <fsphil> hullo kev
[21:56] <Upu> Evening Luanr
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> does anyone of you know of the East Anglia Railway landing I mentioned above?
[21:56] <Upu> no idea
[21:57] <Upu> probably best kept that way too
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> I repeated the calculation the one person made about the UK highway area
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> I did this for germany and included highways, major roads, railways and waterways
[21:57] <Upu> you live an exciting life
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> got about 1% of germany is covered with that
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> so no problem there
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> tomorrow I hope to test that barosensor at the lab again and one of the ones I keep in reserve here at home
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> I hope that the sensor is at fault and not the arduino
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> as dave had a BMP085 on a 3.3V arduino
[22:00] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[22:05] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@2a01:348:117::666) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[22:12] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[22:15] chr4isstubbs (56b6fa56@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:16] chrisstubbs (56b6fa56@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[22:19] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[22:23] chrisstubbs (56b6fa56@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:24] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:25] G8KNN-Jon (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, I got a short question for you
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> we once talked about taking the average of an analogue reading
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> is this the same? http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Smoothing
[22:31] <MrScienceMan> yep
[22:31] <MrScienceMan> that code does exactly that
[22:32] jcoxon (~jcoxon@ left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and what does that do exactly? http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Calibration
[22:33] <MrScienceMan> becareful tho, it uses int for values
[22:33] <MrScienceMan> and the avrage is also an int
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> can it be replaced by floats?
[22:38] <DanielRichman> analogRead returns a number 0 <= n <= 1023 so you should be fine provided numReadings is less than 32
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:39] <DanielRichman> floats are icky
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> why exactlyß
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> *?
[22:41] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[22:41] <DanielRichman> well they're not /that/ bad. But the arduino processer doesn't support 'hardware float stuff' so if you use floats, any operations like adding and multiplying etc. would have to be performed by a (much slower) piece of software that is provided by gcc
[22:41] <DanielRichman> which also makes your program much larger
[22:42] <DanielRichman> having said that if I remember correctly the popular gps library uses floats ? (not sure) so that point is irrelevant because they're gonna be linked in anyway
[22:42] <Randomskk> woo soft floats
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> there was an interesting phenomenon
[22:43] <Randomskk> on wombat I figured I may as well use doubles to make everything easier, then it was a faff to get the hardware FPU working so I just didn't bother
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> I tried the BMP085 code example that sparkfun links to and added a small function to read the Humidity sensor
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> and for some reason there were strange effects
[22:43] <Randomskk> 1MBit flash size and 168MHz CPU and 200kB RAM means that tbh soft floats one once-per-second GPS data were not a big deal :P
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> just for testing I told him "add humidity and temperature", humidity was around 22, temperature was 21, so that would have been 83
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> but my program returned 71 or so
[22:44] <DanielRichman> I should totally write a gps libray that uses strcpy and integers >_> or not.
[22:44] <Randomskk> :P
[22:44] <Randomskk> it's just annoying really
[22:45] <Randomskk> I think one gps library can or does not use floats for coordinates
[22:45] <Randomskk> and gives decimal millidegrees or something
[22:45] <Randomskk> or microdegrees idk
[22:45] <DanielRichman> Lunar_Lander: you're saying, you put constants in your code, and ran it on the arduino, and it didn't do what you expect?
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> I think I pasted my code, let me check that
[22:46] <DanielRichman> the difference between 83 and 71 is a bit much to blame on float inaccuracies (the second reason floats are icky)
[22:46] <Randomskk> depends what you did in the interim
[22:46] G4DPZ (G4DPZ@cpc33-dudl11-2-0-cust170.16-1.cable.virginmedia.com) left #highaltitude.
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> here http://paste.ubuntu.com/1103118/
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> this is something else
[22:46] <MrScienceMan> the difference between 83 and 71 is why netsky came to life
[22:46] <Randomskk> the sensor's datasheet has C code for how to calculate temperature and pressure from the digital value
[22:46] <Randomskk> I'd just do that
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> but I told him (at the end of the code) "grab the humidity and print it out again"
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> and RH and RH2 were different
[22:47] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: which humidity sensor?
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> Honeywell HIH-4030
[22:48] <DanielRichman> Lunar_Lander: okay so Humidity2() gives the same result as Humidity(), sure: however
[22:48] <DanielRichman> if you call Humidity() twice, the values could be different: the analogue reading could have changed inbetween
[22:48] <DanielRichman> like, if there's a problem with your circuit
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:49] <DanielRichman> or just if the calculations take a long enough time for that to change
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea the sensor goes directly to the analog pin
[22:49] <DanielRichman> you could add a Serial.println(H); just below analogRead()
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> and the BMP085 to SDA and SCL
[22:49] <DanielRichman> this would tell you if that's your problem
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> so that he prints it before the BMP stuff is run?
[22:50] zamabe (zamabe@unaffiliated/zamabe) joined #highaltitude.
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> let me try it
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman, now it gives something like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/1105605/
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> OK now I got just the analogRead values
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> the number at the top of each block is taken before the BMP085 is polled
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1105609/
[23:00] <DanielRichman> That looks fine to me: I don't see a problem with the numbers changing when you don't expect them to
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> and this is http://paste.ubuntu.com/1105612/
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1105613/
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> with this
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> here I am calling the humidity before the pressure sensor
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> the numbers look much more closer together
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> agrees much better: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1105615/
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> and this http://paste.ubuntu.com/1105616/
[23:05] fsphil (~fsphil@2001:8b0:34:1:1::2) left irc: Quit: Zed zed zed
[23:07] <DanielRichman> :)
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[23:25] MrScienceMan (~zo@ left irc: Quit: leaving
[23:58] Groumpff (020b2e0e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[00:00] --- Mon Jul 23 2012