highaltitude.log.20120717

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[06:22] <earthshine> Morning
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[06:53] <UpuWork> morning
[06:53] <daveake> morning
[06:53] <daveake> I see I got onto the RPi FB page
[06:53] Action: UpuWork pokes daveake's web server
[06:53] <daveake> Not as hot as the Pi was :)
[06:54] <UpuWork> lol no
[06:54] <UpuWork> was it the regs that smelt burnt ?
[06:54] <daveake> It died after the reg article in December
[06:54] <UpuWork> well
[06:54] <daveake> But they linked to the main page listing the last few articles
[06:54] <daveake> Not the article itself
[06:55] <daveake> Also it's caching pages now so it won't be running PHP
[06:55] <daveake> much
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[06:57] <jcoxon_> evening
[06:57] <jcoxon_> oh wait
[06:57] <jcoxon_> its morning
[06:57] <daveake> lol
[06:57] <daveake> working shifts?
[06:57] <jcoxon_> no
[06:57] <daveake> or just late?
[06:57] <jcoxon_> thats worrying
[06:58] <daveake> yup :)
[06:58] <UpuWork> morning jcoxon
[06:58] <jcoxon_> so i'm running my solar/lipo setup currently
[06:58] <jcoxon_> as we've actually got some sunshine
[06:59] <UpuWork> sunshine lol
[06:59] <UpuWork> jcoxon http://i.imgur.com/aupc3.jpg
[06:59] <jcoxon_> nice
[07:00] <jcoxon_> from below?
[07:00] <UpuWork> yeah it was on the way yp
[07:00] <UpuWork> up
[07:00] <jcoxon_> hehe
[07:00] <jcoxon_> its still quite far away
[07:00] <jcoxon_> :-p
[07:00] <UpuWork> Yeah I know
[07:00] <UpuWork> but it still sounded loud on the video
[07:00] <jcoxon_> so how painful would it be if a pico tx'd 10 strings every 5mins?
[07:01] <UpuWork> leaving the carrier on ?
[07:01] <jcoxon_> pips every 30 seconds
[07:01] <jcoxon_> (enough to be always a pip on the waterfall
[07:01] <jcoxon_> )
[07:01] <UpuWork> possibly annoying
[07:02] <UpuWork> you'd have to be at the dl-fldigi every 5 mins probably
[07:02] <UpuWork> to get it back on tune
[07:02] <jcoxon_> yeah
[07:02] <jcoxon_> its difficult
[07:03] <UpuWork> any power saving mode is possibly going to be annoying but thats what its all about and why we have a distributed network of listeners :)
[07:04] <jcoxon_> yes
[07:04] <jcoxon_> very true
[07:04] <jcoxon_> i was thinking that a batch of 10 strings would be better then spaced single/double strings
[07:04] <Randomskk> if you pip on both the rtty frequencies
[07:04] <Randomskk> maybe dl-fldigi's autotuning could keep up
[07:05] <UpuWork> yeah don't do double strings
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[07:05] <UpuWork> 10 is what I came up with, gives you a few to find it and get dl-fldigi on track
[07:05] <jcoxon_> exactly
[07:05] <jcoxon_> i was also thinking about 300baud
[07:06] <daveake> Or Hatty?
[07:06] <UpuWork> Hatty
[07:06] <UpuWork> with FEC when fsphil sorts it out :)
[07:06] <daveake> lol
[07:06] <UpuWork> why 300 baud ?
[07:07] <jcoxon_> cause get some strings through quicker
[07:07] <UpuWork> well
[07:08] <jcoxon_> though it'll draw more power
[07:08] <UpuWork> there are pros and cons but personally 50 baud gives the greatest chance of the string being recieved in full
[07:08] <UpuWork> stick "I think" in there somewhere
[07:08] <jcoxon_> hehe
[07:11] <UpuWork> HaTTY is very efficient
[07:11] <UpuWork> especially if your payload name is numbers
[07:11] <UpuWork> 4 bits per char
[07:12] <Darkside> fuck i hate these TPS61200s
[07:12] <Darkside> :(
[07:12] <jcoxon_> language Darkside !
[07:12] <Darkside> apologies
[07:12] <UpuWork> potty mouth
[07:12] <UpuWork> soldering them ?
[07:12] <Darkside> they are a PITA to solder
[07:12] <Darkside> yes
[07:12] <UpuWork> haha
[07:12] <Darkside> i had to go over with a hot air rework station
[07:12] <Darkside> and then again with the soldering iron
[07:12] <jcoxon_> UpuWork, 9 people on the paid list
[07:13] <Darkside> oh i'd better pay
[07:13] <Darkside> who do i pay
[07:13] <jcoxon_> http://randomaerospace.com/ukhas/2012_UKHAS_conference_payments/Pay_Here.html
[07:13] <jcoxon_> steve is collecting fees
[07:13] <Darkside> k
[07:14] <Darkside> k, paid
[07:14] <UpuWork> worth every penny
[07:15] <Darkside> s/penny/cent/
[07:15] <UpuWork> when in Rome...
[07:15] <daveake> lira then?
[07:15] <Darkside> :P
[07:15] <UpuWork> probably will be in about 6 months
[07:15] <Darkside> touche
[07:15] <daveake> :)
[07:19] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/WDWOB someone damaged a Sarantel note the blistered bit near the soldering and the on left its come away
[07:30] <jcoxon_> eek
[07:31] <jcoxon_> shall i clear the tracker
[07:31] <jcoxon_> its a bit busy
[07:31] <UpuWork> Can for me
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[07:32] <daveake> fine for me
[07:33] <jcoxon_> i'll leave ozzie on
[07:43] <fsphil> there's talk of the jet stream moving to the other side of the uk .. will this affect the east>west winds we've been having?
[07:44] <jcoxon_> shouldn't do
[07:44] <jcoxon_> those are much higher
[07:44] <jcoxon_> forecasts have them staying put
[07:45] <fsphil> neat, so we might get good weather and good wind conditions
[07:45] <jcoxon_> yeah
[07:45] <jcoxon_> finally
[07:45] <daveake> shocking
[07:46] <fsphil> conditions are fairly good for launching here, just waiting on he who shall not be named
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[07:48] <number10> does anyone think we will be restricted over the olympic period?
[07:49] <UpuWork> well i wouldn't go putting any over london
[07:49] <daveake> Restrictions started on Saturday but stopped east of Reading. And I'm west :-)
[07:50] <daveake> Fortunately the prediction was nice
[07:52] <number10> I suppose its in our favour that they dont consider flight path predictions. Buth then you wouldnt have flown if it was going east of reading
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[08:04] <jcoxon_> yay my setup is working well
[08:04] <jcoxon_> by txing every 5 minutes it has time to charge the lipo
[08:05] <jcoxon_> and currently the charge is more then is used during the transmission period
[08:06] <number10> thats good - planning a launch soon?
[08:07] <jcoxon_> not for a bit
[08:13] <number10> whats the capacity of the lipo?
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[08:15] <jcoxon_> 110mAh
[08:15] <jcoxon_> :-P
[08:17] <number10> amazing how small they are
[08:18] <daveake> That's a very small one, yes!
[08:18] <daveake> I have some for my r/c helis
[08:19] <jcoxon_> they are tiny
[08:20] <jcoxon_> the lipo just provides a reserve
[08:21] <number10> have one here its 35XX11X3 - think there are some more samples lying around
[08:21] <number10> -X
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[08:57] <kokey> so a lipo is ok with low temps?
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[08:58] <jcoxon_> kokey, not particularly
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[08:58] <kokey> ah ok
[08:58] <jcoxon_> below -10 its going to really struggle
[08:59] <fsphil> last one died at 0c
[08:59] <navrac_work> kokey - they lose capacity at colder temps - although some are better than others. The difficulty is that standard batteries break down quite impressivly if you try to charge them at or below zero
[09:00] <kokey> too bad pressure insulation will be heavy
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[09:50] <kokey> I'm wondering if a sealed aluminium tube to hold the battery in will be good, it will still lose heat but maybe not that much because the pressure is contained inside
[09:50] <kokey> need to test
[09:50] <kokey> i've just noticed on how the reactions in some batteries are pressure related
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[09:54] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 2012"
[09:54] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Helium supplies and right size for picos?"
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[10:00] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/17/pi_ascent/
[10:00] <daveake> I recognise that shirt
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[10:01] <Randomskk> :P
[10:02] <kokey> where is the conference going to be?
[10:02] <Laurenceb> http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/07/16/promotional_poster.jpg
[10:02] <Laurenceb> lawl
[10:04] <UpuWork> London kokey
[10:04] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Helium supplies and right size for picos?"
[10:06] <kokey> ah... Kings College London (London
[10:06] <kokey> Bridge Campus
[10:06] <kokey> nice, right by the Shard
[10:07] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Olympics and HABing"
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[10:16] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Helium supplies and right size for picos?"
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[10:20] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "[UKHAS] Re: Helium supplies and right size for picos?"
[10:24] <fsphil> I'd better see if I can get Helium
[10:24] <navrac_work> I think you'd get in more trouble for launching with an olympic logo on the side though...
[10:25] <daveake> lol
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[10:25] <UpuWork> "if you do want to over fly London please do it at 40km + so the Surface to Air missiles can't reach you"
[10:26] <daveake> :)
[10:26] <Darkside> lol
[10:26] <Darkside> can edo
[10:26] <Darkside> can do*
[10:26] <Randomskk> I think the typhoons can ;)
[10:26] <navrac_work> or fly lower and fill the payload with chips so if they do shoot it down over the stadium it will annoy mcdonalds
[10:26] <UpuWork> they can't get that high
[10:26] <Randomskk> sucks :(
[10:27] <Randomskk> oh yea
[10:27] <Randomskk> 16k service ceiling
[10:27] <Randomskk> 19.8k absolute
[10:27] <daveake> We'll need live images then
[10:27] <daveake> And some code to select the incoming
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[10:29] <navrac_work> I see all the delivery companies are suspending timed deliveries and adding a surcharge for deliveries in London during the olympics
[10:29] <Darkside> ugh, i'm going to be entering the country during a horrible period
[10:30] <Randomskk> yes
[10:30] <daveake> assuming we let you in
[10:30] <Darkside> i arrive 17th august
[10:30] <navrac_work> that will be ok, just bring a raincoat
[10:30] <daveake> and wellies
[10:31] <fsphil> yea, it's summer
[10:31] <Darkside> annoying though, i land at 5pm friday
[10:31] <Darkside> and still have to get to bath that night
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[10:31] <Darkside> going to be arriving late at night...
[10:31] <daveake> Coaches still running?
[10:31] <Darkside> i hope so
[10:31] <navrac_work> you can get a shower at heathrow
[10:31] <Darkside> else its train into paddington then train out again
[10:32] <daveake> Yep. That's not a bad way to go
[10:32] <navrac_work> sorry misread that
[10:32] <daveake> lol
[10:32] <Darkside> thats what i did last time
[10:32] <UpuWork> just be ready to queue at customs
[10:32] <Darkside> but i'll be trying to coach this time
[10:32] <Darkside> problem is i can't book a ticket in advance
[10:32] <Darkside> as i have no idea how long i'll be in customs
[10:32] <bambi> Darkside> at least it will be warmer in the Northern Hemisphere...maybe?
[10:32] <Darkside> yeah, i've been reading about the horrible lines
[10:32] <Darkside> bambi: probably about the same
[10:33] <daveake> Last coach 23:40
[10:33] <bambi> hehe *brrr*
[10:33] <fsphil> nah, colder
[10:33] <UpuWork> 10p says its raining
[10:33] <UpuWork> Anthony Stirk - 11/07/2012 09:34:50 (GMT Standard Time)
[10:33] <UpuWork> Checked again this morning and the exceptions are still there. These aren't affecting the integrity of the backup and it could be used to restore from. Removed the entire selection list and created a new one will monitor tommorrow.
[10:33] <UpuWork> Anthony
[10:33] <UpuWork> -------------------------------------
[10:33] <UpuWork> Ben Peckover - 12/07/2012 14:26:30 (GMT Standard Time)
[10:33] <UpuWork> Reinstalled Proliant HP software and rebooted Server this should fix the backup issues as the install has recreated missing files
[10:33] <Darkside> daveake: ok thats not so bad
[10:33] <UpuWork> oops
[10:33] <UpuWork> sorry
[10:33] <Darkside> yay PuTTY
[10:33] <fsphil> flood kick!
[10:33] <daveake> 2 hours 20 mins
[10:34] <fsphil> at least I get to .au in summer
[10:34] <daveake> Darkside http://www.tourinaday.com/bath/heathrow-to-bath.html
[10:34] <Darkside> ooh thanks
[10:34] <Darkside> hopefully i can just get a ticket at the airport
[10:34] <Darkside> once ig et out of customs
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[10:35] <fsphil> aah, customs
[10:35] <daveake> Tickets at the Heathrow Central bus station
[10:36] <daveake> http://www.heathrowairport.com/transport-and-directions/buses-and-coaches/coaches
[10:36] <fsphil> Darkside, so the flights provide power for laptops?
[10:36] <fsphil> so/do
[10:36] <daveake> More do these days
[10:36] <Darkside> not these ones afaik
[10:36] <daveake> Mostly you have to be somewhere other than cattle class
[10:36] <Darkside> ots a 747
[10:36] <Darkside> yeah
[10:36] <fsphil> aah
[10:37] <Darkside> i'm in cattle
[10:37] <fsphil> I need better batteries then
[10:37] <bambi> Singapore Ailines has 110V AC in the arm rest
[10:37] <daveake> I usually pay the extra £50 or so for "Cattle Plus" to get some legroom
[10:37] <daveake> But usually still no power
[10:37] <fsphil> or bring a book
[10:37] <Darkside> goddamn
[10:38] <daveake> Or extra battery
[10:38] <Darkside> i knew i shoudl have gone with singapore airlines
[10:38] <fsphil> "Why Airplains Crash" might be a good one
[10:38] <Darkside> my tablet will last the flight
[10:38] <fsphil> planes*
[10:38] <Darkside> also, i'm stopping over in malaysia on the way
[10:38] <bambi> wghat airline did you choose?
[10:38] <Darkside> malaysian airlines
[10:38] <navrac_work> there might be a market for a small pedal assemby for charging your laptop on economy flights.. also as protection against deep vein thrombosis - brb off to the patent office
[10:38] <Darkside> lol navrac_work
[10:38] <bambi> Sihgapore Airlines farewelled their last 747 in April this year
[10:39] <Darkside> i flew british airways and qantas last time, they weren't particularly good
[10:39] <Darkside> though the australian accents on the qantas flight back was refreshing
[10:39] <fsphil> hmm.. I'm not sure which airline I'm on
[10:39] <fsphil> I'd better check :)
[10:39] <Darkside> :P
[10:39] <bambi> I agree with the talking Koala 'I hate Qantas'
[10:41] <bambi> I have flown Malasian but a few moons ago
[10:42] <bambi> its a long haul to the UK - I find even Bangkok long enough
[10:42] <bambi> fly for 6 hours and look out the window and you are still over Australia
[10:42] <fsphil> emailed for an updated itinerary- they kept giving me different flights when I was arranging it
[10:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Re: Helium supplies and right size for picos?"
[10:42] <fsphil> yea there's just no sense in a country being that big :p
[10:43] <fsphil> (speaking as someone who lives on a tiny island)
[10:43] <bambi> fsphil> what town are you planning t o visit?
[10:43] <fsphil> Cairns, then sydney
[10:43] <UpuWork> PS. Please can we call them Pydrogen balloons now?
[10:43] <bambi> I am gland you are visiting my state Queensland
[10:43] <bambi> what month
[10:44] <bambi> Vairns is fun - rain forest, great barrier reef...
[10:44] <bambi> Cairns*
[10:44] <daveake> UpuWork Saw that :)
[10:44] <daveake> I've replied to that and another comment
[10:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Helium supplies and right size for picos?"
[10:45] <UpuWork> the one about the convection
[10:45] <UpuWork> I can confirm due to empirical observation with my nose it was very hot
[10:46] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Helium supplies and right size for picos?"
[10:47] <fsphil> how do you pronounce cairns anyway
[10:47] <fsphil> I'm saying "carns"
[10:50] <bambi> you can say it 2 ways and be acceptable
[10:50] <bambi> I say care - ns but you can alsi say kar-ns
[10:51] <Darkside> fsphil: cair nsss
[10:51] <Darkside> like fair
[10:51] <fsphil> thanks!
[10:51] <bambi> either way no issues
[10:51] <fsphil> make me look slightly less silly
[10:52] <bambi> if you kike seafood I reccommend 'Barnicle Bills' owner Tony, on the Esplanade
[10:52] <bambi> when I visit I always go there - resonabley prices open air eating
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[10:55] <bambi> Sydney - also for Seafood I highly reccommend 'Doyles on the beach' - you are on the beach unders the stars and can see the city center reflected in the harbour - very romantic *smiles*
[10:57] <UpuWork> bambi do you have the picture of your camera truss ?
[10:57] <bambi> I do...?
[10:58] <UpuWork> the one you made for the balloon
[10:58] <fsphil> I'm not big into seafood, although it's a holiday so I might give it a go
[10:59] <Merv> z
[10:59] <bambi> fsphil> well all foods are avilabble - but Sydney rock oysters and Queensland mud crabs are delicious
[10:59] <bambi> Upu> yes I have that...why?
[10:59] <UpuWork> can I see it again just chatting about it
[11:00] <UpuWork> I think you linked it on imgur
[11:00] <fsphil> usually when on holidays I eat junk food
[11:01] <bambi> upu> http://bambi01.imgur.com/all/
[11:01] <UpuWork> not publically availble
[11:01] <bambi> grrr hold on...
[11:02] <UpuWork> oh
[11:02] <UpuWork> got it
[11:02] <UpuWork> thanks
[11:02] <bambi> yay
[11:02] <bambi> 3mm and 1.6mm aluminum wire
[11:02] <UpuWork> looks a bit stabby :)
[11:02] <bambi> what does stabby mean?
[11:03] <bambi> she asks...
[11:03] <UpuWork> dangerous if it fell on your head
[11:03] <bambi> maybe but it only weighs 122g
[11:03] <UpuWork> I'd tether the camera via a cord too
[11:03] <UpuWork> ok I need some lunch bbl
[11:04] <bambi> will be 1m length
[11:04] <bambi> happy munching
[11:04] <bambi> fsphil> well you can get junk food anywhere - even in Cairns
[11:05] <daveake> including onions
[11:05] <bambi> all the usual outlets are here
[11:10] <bambi> Question - has anyone had issues with the low temperatures with HAB affecting their electronics - and any suggetions to over come them?
[11:10] <Randomskk> insulation
[11:10] <Randomskk> but honestly they're usually fine. if anything overheating is a concern
[11:10] <bambi> yes from my research that seem sto be the case
[11:11] <daveake> One of mine had ineffective insulation and ran at -53 degrees without issue.
[11:11] <bambi> wow
[11:11] <LazyLeopard> Any piccies of melted electronics yet? ;)
[11:11] <daveake> The weekend's Pi was threatening to melt its way out of the box
[11:11] <daveake> :D
[11:11] <bambi> amazing the batteries will work at those temps
[11:11] <daveake> Not even powered it up since then :)
[11:11] <daveake> They're specced to -40
[11:11] <daveake> And self hat to some extent
[11:12] <daveake> heat
[11:12] <bambi> was that the hand warmer incident I have heard about?
[11:12] <LazyLeopard> I guess, if it melted its way out then that'd solve its short-term cooling requirements...
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[11:13] <bambi> I have used non rechargable lithium batteries in -20°C filming and no issues
[11:14] <bambi> may ask a question about onbard antennas? is a ground plane configeration mostly used?
[11:15] <fsphil> daveake: there will be no onions
[11:16] <daveake> :D
[11:16] <daveake> bambi Yes, almost always
[11:16] <bambi> cool that is what I am planning
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[11:19] <daveake> Usually, like most people, I use 4 radial wires. On one payload though I used a sheet of cooking foil. That worked well too.
[11:19] <daveake> That one was a fake UFO so the foil doubled as a "heat shield" :p
[11:19] <bambi> hehe
[11:20] <bambi> the iconic 'weather balloon'
[11:20] <bambi> infamous
[11:21] <bambi> I have 2mm coper wire I was planning on using - 3 for ground plane and one for vibrator er not sure of the tech name
[11:21] <Randomskk> "driven element" typically
[11:21] <bambi> yes Thank you *smiles*
[11:22] <Darkside> vibrator
[11:22] <Darkside> lol
[11:23] <bambi> I have made a 4 el yagi for reception
[11:23] <Randomskk> vibrator's technically valid
[11:23] <Randomskk> just.. less common
[11:23] <Darkside> 4 el yagi will work fine when its far away
[11:23] <bambi> cool
[11:23] <Darkside> for when its in the air a 1/4 wave will work just as well
[11:23] <Darkside> the 4 element yagi is good for DFing the payload too
[11:24] <Darkside> what you do is plug it into the R10, and swing the beam around
[11:24] <bambi> great I did something right
[11:24] <bambi> ok Thank you
[11:24] <Darkside> and you can hear the signal getting louder when its pointed at the payload
[11:24] <bambi> I plan to work on the micro comnputer and transmitter wednesfday
[11:25] <gonzo_> 2mm coper wire for the driven element could be nasty if it lands on someone
[11:25] <gonzo_> I have used a flexy wire in a drinking straw
[11:25] <bambi> maybe withs some safety someting on the ends
[11:26] <bambi> ah OK Thank you
[11:26] <Darkside> bambi: once you get the transmitter running, have a practice direction finding it
[11:26] <Darkside> like, get someone to hide it a few hundred meters away
[11:26] <Darkside> and hunt it down using just the yagi antenna and the R10
[11:26] <bambi> OK I will
[11:26] <bambi> I have busland next to my property
[11:27] <bambi> bushland*
[11:27] <bambi> I bought resistors at Jaycar Electrnics today to get it all working
[11:28] <bambi> Darkside> so you use ozimaps to track capsule and your own position?
[11:29] <Darkside> yes
[11:29] <Darkside> ozi explorer
[11:29] <bambi> I have ozimaps but havent really used them - I will have to get into that
[11:29] <Darkside> which loads topographics maps, and has a DLL interface, which you can talk to with java
[11:29] <Darkside> we have some custom code that connects to fldigi's ARQ server, which you can access all the demodulated data on
[11:30] <Darkside> it parses the data, and plots it in oziexplorer
[11:30] <bambi> well I may have to do it manually - I am not a coder
[11:30] <bambi> sounds lovely
[11:30] <Darkside> ahh ok
[11:30] <Darkside> you'll need to do some amount of coding!
[11:30] <bambi> I am sure
[11:31] <Darkside> but yeah, i'd stay within 3d range as much as possible
[11:31] <Darkside> 3g
[11:31] <bambi> the microcomputer itself is a challenge *smiles*
[11:31] <Darkside> so you can use spacenearus
[11:31] <Darkside> you should be able to find somewhere with nextg coverage
[11:31] <bambi> unfortunatly I have looked at the areas I will have to launch - not much mobile service there
[11:32] <bambi> I do have a 5W 'car phone' unit with data port - maybe that may help
[11:32] <Darkside> there must be certain days that have the balloon going the other way
[11:32] <bambi> I wish
[11:32] <Darkside> there must be
[11:33] <bambi> maybe with the change of seasons
[11:33] <Darkside> get into the habit of checking the predictions often
[11:33] <bambi> at the moment all predictions are west to east
[11:33] <Darkside> see how they change with different weather patterns
[11:33] <bambi> OK Thank you I will
[11:33] <Darkside> hmm
[11:34] <bambi> I would love to launch before November as after that its our rainy season and conditions are er unpredictable (cyclones, flood etc)
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[11:36] <fsphil> great
[11:36] <fsphil> guess when I'm there
[11:37] <bambi> oh really? like to come and help me? <hint> <hint>
[11:38] <fsphil> I'm eclipse hunting :)
[11:38] <bambi> oh is there one coming up?
[11:38] <fsphil> yea, solar eclipse
[11:38] <bambi> I watched the transit of Venus the other day using binoculars projected on a card
[11:38] <Randomskk> is that a happy coincidence or did you plan the trip to be there during the eclipse?
[11:39] <Randomskk> (or did you plan the trip specifically to see the eclipse?)
[11:39] <fsphil> yea, the eclipse is the reason for going
[11:39] <bambi> Oh I have never seen a solar eclyps is it in Cairns only?
[11:39] <Randomskk> sweet
[11:39] <fsphil> although I'm staying an extra week to nosey about sydney
[11:39] <bambi> how cool would it to be to have a HAB during the eclypse?
[11:40] <bambi> maybe you could see the stars
[11:40] <Randomskk> you can see the stars anyway
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[11:40] <fsphil> should be able to see the stars on the ground
[11:40] <Randomskk> maybe you could see the eclipse on the earth's surface though
[11:40] <fsphil> yea, the shadow itself
[11:40] <Randomskk> that'd be cool
[11:41] <bambi> oh ist Carins and Darwin ojnly - drat 2000km N of me
[11:42] <zyp> I were on a flight during an eclipse a few years ago
[11:42] <Randomskk> sweet
[11:42] <Randomskk> what could you see?
[11:42] <zyp> hang on, I'll see if I can find the photos
[11:42] <fsphil> neat way to cheat the weather
[11:42] <fsphil> it could end up cloudy when I'm there
[11:43] <bambi> mmm yes not the best season
[11:43] <zyp> http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3221/2731248501_17d47053c8_b.jpg
[11:43] <bambi> rainy season has already started there in NOv
[11:43] <fsphil> awsome
[11:43] <zyp> shame about the reflections though
[11:44] <fsphil> yea
[11:44] <bambi> I hope it all goes well for you
[11:45] <MrScienceMan> q/fq 2
[11:45] <gonzo_> our rany season started months ago, we call it 'summer'
[11:45] <Randomskk> zyp: oh nice :D
[11:46] <zyp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_August_1,_2008 <- this one, I were probably somewhere above russia
[11:46] <bambi> yes our athletes for the Olympics are expecting rain
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[11:47] <fsphil> the last partial eclipse I saw was the one in 1999 (or 1998?)
[11:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter Browne "[UKHAS] Re: UKHAS Conference 2012"
[11:48] <fsphil> only a thin cresent sun, was really odd
[11:49] <zyp> I was a bit disappointed when I heard that the eclipse was going to occur during my flight, I thought that meant I would miss everything
[11:49] <fsphil> was going to travel to cornwall for thatone, glad I didn't!
[11:49] <fsphil> I ended up seeing more of it
[11:50] <bambi> cool
[11:50] <gonzo_> it was so overcast here for that, it just went dull and the birds stopped singing
[11:51] <gonzo_> I brioyught a portable tv in to works and watched iot on that
[11:54] <bambi> I have never seen one in real
[12:01] <bambi> anyway thanks for chatting time for me to depart ~byes~
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[12:05] <kokey> I sold my telescope before moving to the UK from Gibraltar
[12:05] <kokey> having a telescope is pointless here
[12:05] <kokey> and I stopped my script that warned me about visible passes of the ISS
[12:06] <kokey> well, until I integrate it with visibility data
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[12:11] <Merv> i dont think its so pointless having a telescope in the UK look what Richie Jarvis does in his garden near me in Sussex www.deepsky.org.uk/
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[12:25] <Laurenceb> should have called it pispace
[12:26] <fsphil> I'm selling my own scope, keeping a small one though
[12:27] <fsphil> the town I live in has gotten a lot brighter, more streetlights
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[12:30] <kokey> there was a lot of light in Gibraltar and around the bay there
[12:30] <kokey> and in summer there were no clouds most of the time but the air would be hazy
[12:30] <kokey> in winter it was mostly cloudy
[12:31] <kokey> but even with the light and the haze in summer, and sunlight until late, it was much easier to look at anything than much of the UK
[12:31] <kokey> or rather, much of where people in the UK live, I suppose it's great in the few remote places that exist
[12:32] <fsphil> yea there's a dark spot about 10km north west of here
[12:32] <fsphil> or a bit further, over in scotland on the west coast
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[13:48] <WillDuckworth> anyone know the max lift/altitude for a 3000 balloon?
[13:49] <UpuWork> 3000 ?
[13:49] <UpuWork> Alot
[13:49] <UpuWork> along with the price
[13:51] <WillDuckworth> yeah - bit pricey
[13:51] <WillDuckworth> 30KG?
[13:52] <UpuWork> no idea
[13:52] <UpuWork> why would you want to launch 30kg ?
[13:52] <nick_> Bombing raid
[13:52] <UpuWork> you can't become a spaceman WillDuckworth
[13:52] <WillDuckworth> lol - just running some numbers
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[13:59] <gonzo_> will start getting interest from ITAR!
[13:59] <Randomskk> I would avoid 30kg payloads
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[14:00] <Randomskk> and you'd need a lot more than a 3kg balloon to heft it
[14:01] <kokey> 30kg, annoying kids?
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[14:13] <nosebleedkt> whats the diff between GFS and GFS HD in the predictor?
[14:14] <Randomskk> HD is slower
[14:14] <Randomskk> don't use it
[14:14] <nosebleedkt> ok
[14:14] <nosebleedkt> well today I learnt how to use the helium stuff on tube
[14:15] <nosebleedkt> the regulator does a pretty nice job
[14:15] <nosebleedkt> my question again is, that the neck lift: 2317g in my cause
[14:15] <nosebleedkt> case*
[14:16] <nosebleedkt> is that 2317 kilograms(about 2 bottles of water)
[14:16] <Randomskk> that's some really dense water
[14:16] <nosebleedkt> will be need to keep the balloon in balance
[14:16] <Randomskk> or big bottles I suppose
[14:16] <nosebleedkt> neither going up nor going down
[14:16] <nosebleedkt> 2 big plastic bottles
[14:16] <Randomskk> no, it's 2317 grammes
[14:17] <Randomskk> not 2317 kilogrammes
[14:17] <nosebleedkt> 2 thousand 317 grams
[14:17] <Randomskk> correct
[14:17] <nosebleedkt> ok
[14:17] <Randomskk> which is indeed a little bit more than two one-litre water bottles
[14:17] <nosebleedkt> yes
[14:18] <nosebleedkt> i count it in grams because our scale machine is on grams
[14:18] <Randomskk> yea
[14:18] <Randomskk> just, you said "kilograms" earlier
[14:18] <nosebleedkt> Does anyone have a picture of the balloon attached on bottles and staying on air on balance?
[14:19] <nosebleedkt> 2.317kg :)
[14:19] <Randomskk> 15:16:10 nosebleedkt> is that 2317 kilograms(about 2 bottles of water)
[14:19] <Randomskk> I don't have such a picture handy
[14:20] <nosebleedkt> hmm, I really need one to see it
[14:20] <nosebleedkt> Does it matter if I have the balloon ready, and keep it floating there until I finish some other work?
[14:21] <Randomskk> not hugely, but I'd advise doing the balloon last really.
[14:21] <nosebleedkt> yes of course
[14:21] <nosebleedkt> it will be last
[14:21] <nosebleedkt> but you know, something could come along
[14:21] <nosebleedkt> and delay the launch
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[14:31] <nosebleedkt> how much time it takes to fill the balloon?
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[14:33] <Randomskk> like ten or twenty minutes, depends on how much gas
[14:34] <nosebleedkt> about 4m^3
[14:34] <nosebleedkt> in 1600g
[14:34] <nosebleedkt> man I have too much agony
[14:34] <Randomskk> yes
[14:34] <Randomskk> just go and launch one already
[14:35] <fsphil> don't be afraid of failure :)
[14:36] <nigelvh> As Adam on the Mythbusters says "Failure is always an option"
[14:37] <nosebleedkt> LOL
[14:37] <fsphil> I've not heard that one, like it
[14:37] <nigelvh> He's chock full of good phrases.
[14:37] <fsphil> it's never on when I'm watching tv
[14:37] <nigelvh> I watch on the intertubez.
[14:38] <nigelvh> A magical land of bits and bytes and acks and nacks.
[14:40] <fsphil> I still remember my first visit :) the beeps and chrips of the modem, the pages slowly loading
[14:40] <fsphil> the disconnection when someone picked up the phone
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[14:41] <nigelvh> beep beep boop boop beep beep beep GHRSANAAAARRAAAAA sshsshshshshh SHHSHSHSHHSHSHSHSHSHS
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[14:41] <fsphil> we still have that noise in the office, from the fax machines
[14:41] <fsphil> which people still insist on using
[14:41] <nigelvh> I do wonder how those managed to slip through...
[14:42] <Randomskk> fsphil: nyanfax!
[14:42] <Randomskk> http://www.tomscott.com/nyanfax/
[14:42] <fsphil> oh dear
[14:43] <nigelvh> Now to use google voice to connect that to random people's fax machines.
[14:43] <fsphil> I'll have to try that :)
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[14:46] <MrScienceMan> thats the best use of fax
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[14:57] <gonzo_> ages ago there was a phone service touting for trade, where you could do a free trial. You entered the number you wanted and your number on the web and you got call and a 1min connection.
[14:57] <gonzo_> but with no checking of the numbers. So we would put in iones from the yellow pages. undertakets to pie factory etc
[14:58] <gonzo_> you could not hear, but you could see the time of the call
[14:58] <gonzo_> used to see how long you could keep them going
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[15:11] <pjmm> lol at nyanfax, very amusing
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[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the writeup daveake
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[19:45] <daveake> It was fun
[19:45] <daveake> Took longer than I was hoping
[19:46] <daveake> Server has seen more activity in the last 30 hours than the previous 6 months
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:55] <WillDuckworth> good stuff dave. quick q - how do you do the single pin rtty shift?
[19:56] <daveake> NTX pin to gnd thru 4k7
[19:56] <daveake> Also to 3V3 thru 4k7
[19:56] <daveake> then to the processor through 39k*
[19:56] <daveake> *adjust to get the shift
[19:57] <jonsowman> alternative, PWM + low pass filter
[19:57] <WillDuckworth> i see - been a long day, thanks
[19:57] <daveake> Went lower last time to get 600Hz shift for the 300 baud
[19:57] <daveake> Yeah, not an option for that tracker
[19:57] <jonsowman> ah ok
[19:57] <daveake> No real-time control so I used the UART :)
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[20:01] <mattbrejza> pwm having the advantage that it doesnt drift with temperature
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[20:02] <Randomskk> well
[20:02] <Randomskk> you say that
[20:02] <daveake> Erm, why not?
[20:02] <Randomskk> the crystal sourcing the clock will probably drift
[20:02] <daveake> It's still Vcc that's generating the voltage
[20:02] <daveake> The drift is in the NTX2 shirley?
[20:02] <Randomskk> daveake: not overall frequency but the change in shift
[20:02] <mattbrejza> the shift doesnt drift
[20:02] <Randomskk> the resistors making your shift will change resistance too
[20:02] <daveake> By much?
[20:03] <mattbrejza> i should have probably added that in :P
[20:03] <mattbrejza> yea the frequency will
[20:03] <Upu> I keep meaning to test that
[20:03] <Randomskk> depends on the resistors
[20:03] <Randomskk> ppm values are specified
[20:03] <Upu> PWM works fine on the NTX2 right up to 1200 baud
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[20:04] <mattbrejza> and i have only tested this in a freezer rather then flight
[20:04] <Upu> hey lunar
[20:04] <daveake> Sure, but the gap change we see on the NTX2 has to be waaaay more than the change in the Rs
[20:05] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure pwm keeps the same shift, its a simple test however
[20:05] <daveake> if the shift goes from say 400Hz to 300Hz (and it is that sort of change), the Rs would need to change by 25%
[20:05] <daveake> Which doesn't sound believeable to me
[20:05] <daveake> But yes, some measurement would be good :)
[20:05] <mattbrejza> now that i think about it, the test i didnt wasnt even a ntx2...
[20:06] <mattbrejza> *test i did
[20:06] <daveake> Ah
[20:06] <daveake> The rfm22b for example doesn't vary noticeably (well I didn't notice)
[20:07] <mattbrejza> yea its based on changing hte divider so it wont change
[20:07] <daveake> Someone who knows how these things work (not me) will explain ...
[20:07] <daveake> :)
[20:07] <mattbrejza> well there will be a VERY little change due to the XL freuqnecy change
[20:07] <daveake> Oh, isn't the NTX2 using a varicap?
[20:07] <daveake> That would do it
[20:08] <mattbrejza> but the test i did was varactor based, which is what the ntx2 does, but there are many more components in the ntx2
[20:08] <daveake> ok
[20:08] <mattbrejza> either way someone feel free to try it out :)
[20:10] <Upu> I have the circuit diagram for the inside of an NTX2
[20:11] <mattbrejza> you could heat up each component individually until you find which one(s) cause temperature dependance...
[20:12] <daveake> ice spray
[20:12] <daveake> maybe apply via a cotton bud
[20:12] <Upu> its the crystal
[20:13] <Upu> it changes slightly and this is multiplied by 5
[20:13] <Upu> I've been trying to get some more stable and slightly off frequency ones made to no avail
[20:13] <daveake> that's the freq not the shift
[20:13] <Upu> oh sorry
[20:13] <Upu> misread
[20:13] <mattbrejza> would probably be easier to replace the crystal on a rfm22b
[20:13] <daveake> IMO freq is less of a problem as flgdigi and receivers can autotune
[20:14] <Upu> crystal is easy on NTX2
[20:14] <mattbrejza> or put a temperature sensor on the crystal and compensate
[20:14] <daveake> shame fldigi doesn't autotune the shift
[20:14] <daveake> you could definitely adjust the shift with PWM
[20:14] <mattbrejza> i was assuming the rfm22b uses a more generic crystal
[20:14] <mattbrejza> the nxt2 ones arnt common place
[20:15] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/PDFS/NTX2.pdf
[20:15] <Upu> They are SMD UM-1
[20:15] <Upu> you can get them
[20:15] <mattbrejza> 80-something MHz though?
[20:15] <mattbrejza> farnell stocked?
[20:15] <Upu> yup
[20:15] <Upu> no they are custom
[20:16] <Upu> but you can get 10 made for £40
[20:16] <Upu> which in theory can put the NTX2 on 434.200
[20:16] <Upu> or whatever
[20:16] <Upu> also the one fitted is only rated to -10'C
[20:17] <mattbrejza> still more faff then replacing the rfm22b with a better one
[20:17] <Upu> I think anyway I need to speak to Radiometrix
[20:17] <mattbrejza> rated to -10 or freqency stability spec'ed for -10?
[20:17] <Upu> latter
[20:17] <Upu> obviously they work lower than that
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[20:31] <WillDuckworth> hey - upu - i'd be interested in those ntx2 tweaked units
[20:31] <Upu> Yup I know many would
[20:32] <Upu> but I'm struggling to get quotes on the crystals
[20:32] <Upu> a company in the US quoted for them but then wanted $100 postage
[20:32] <Randomskk> I take it you've tried euroquarts?
[20:32] <Randomskk> s/s/z
[20:32] <Randomskk> I'm posting them a cheque for some custom ones tomorrow ;o
[20:32] <Randomskk> but not ntx2 package
[20:32] <Randomskk> but they are in somerset
[20:33] <Upu> Yup tried again and again they keep saying they'll get back to me but never do
[20:33] <Randomskk> :|
[20:33] <Upu> called them must be 3 times now
[20:33] <Randomskk> they seem to have been reasonably okay with us so far and we're just buying ten
[20:33] <Upu> jonsowman is trying them as well
[20:34] <Upu> I know its quite annoying
[20:34] <Randomskk> yea, the cheque I'm posting is for his order :P
[20:34] <Upu> I'll get on them again
[20:34] <jonsowman> yeah they got back to me today about the 13.58's for Joey
[20:34] <jonsowman> no response to the NTX2 one
[20:35] <jonsowman> though i did send that quite a lot later
[20:35] <Randomskk> dunno how it can be profitable for them to make us ten crystals
[20:35] <jonsowman> me neither
[20:35] <Randomskk> maybe they hope it's a prototype and we'll be ordering 10k in a few weeks
[20:35] <Randomskk> :|
[20:35] <Upu> lol
[20:37] <jonsowman> lol
[20:37] <jonsowman> hmm
[20:37] <jonsowman> shotgun not hand soldering 10k Joeys
[20:38] <Randomskk> if it comes to that I think we'll pay to have them made up in china
[20:38] <Randomskk> >_>
[20:38] <jonsowman> daveake: some ideas for yours http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261066998344
[20:38] <jonsowman> Randomskk: good
[20:38] <jonsowman> i'm glad to hear it
[20:38] <Randomskk> oh wow
[20:38] <Randomskk> do want
[20:38] <jonsowman> lol
[20:38] <Upu> lol at that car
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[20:39] <daveake> jeezus wept
[20:39] <daveake> "reserve not met"
[20:39] <daveake> they don't say
[20:39] <jonsowman> :D
[20:39] <MrScienceMan> :D
[20:39] <MrScienceMan> has some nice subs
[20:39] <Randomskk> five 7" screens
[20:39] <Randomskk> including in the sun visors
[20:40] <daveake> Well those I could use :P
[20:40] <jonsowman> yet it can't go over a speed bump
[20:40] <Randomskk> 4 12" subwoofers, 6 6.5" mids/tweeters...
[20:40] <MrScienceMan> i much prefer screen in my rims
[20:40] <daveake> Just what I need for playing rtty through
[20:40] <MrScienceMan> so people can watch stuff while i roll by
[20:40] <Randomskk> nah it's okay jon
[20:40] <Upu> Dave's has 2 LCD's in it
[20:41] <Randomskk> Full Rayvern Hydraulics air bag suspension system front and back. This suspension lifts the car to at least 6 inches of the ground when up still allowing a very comfortable drive, but when dropped the car sits on the floor
[20:41] <jonsowman> oh fair enough then (!)
[20:43] <Randomskk> (!) indeed
[20:43] <Randomskk> what the heck is that abomination
[20:43] <Upu> lol
[20:43] <Randomskk> and how has it won awards
[20:43] <Randomskk> possibly by threatening to deafen anyone who didn't
[20:44] <Randomskk> from the other side of the country
[20:45] <staylo> ...the goggles do nothing
[20:47] <jonsowman> pininfarina wouldn't be happy
[20:49] <BrainDamage> he died few days ago, so doesn't matter
[20:50] <daveake> same day that thing went on ebay?
[20:51] <BrainDamage> possible :p
[20:52] <jonsowman> the two are probably related
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[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> my teammate Richard asked if dl-fldigi can run on Android
[21:56] <Randomskk> no
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> XD from the current sparkfun homepage/news https://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/Homepage/alcoholpolicy-g.jpg
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[22:12] <MrScienceMan> q/fq 2
[22:13] <fsphil> be nice if it could, but how would you get the audio in?
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:14] <MrScienceMan> 3.5mm jack mic ?
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[22:15] <fsphil> I've not seen any with an input
[22:16] <fsphil> usb would be nice, coupled with an fcd
[22:16] <MrScienceMan> getting input on android?
[22:17] <fsphil> audio input, or a proper usb port
[22:17] <MrScienceMan> you can get audio in through the 3.5mm jack
[22:17] <MrScienceMan> through the mic
[22:18] <MrScienceMan> seen a bunch of addons that use the 3.5mm for input
[22:18] <fsphil> I don't think the jack on the ones i have here can work as an input. will have to check that
[22:18] <MrScienceMan> android and iphone
[22:18] <MrScienceMan> would be a nice little project
[22:19] <fsphil> but yea, ideally just a standard usb socket
[22:20] <MrScienceMan> dont they have a USB port for charging and downloading?
[22:21] <fsphil> not a proper usb A socket
[22:21] <zyp> fsphil, of course it can
[22:21] <fsphil> although some can be made to act like a usb host
[22:21] <zyp> pretty much any 3.5mm jack supports handsfree, it's a phone after all
[22:22] <MrScienceMan> surely it has usb a mini
[22:22] <MrScienceMan> or usb b mini
[22:22] <MrScienceMan> or was it micro
[22:22] <zyp> micro
[22:22] <fsphil> great naming system :)
[22:22] <zyp> mini-a is obsolete and mini-b is not used in any modern phones either
[22:22] <MrScienceMan> too big?
[22:23] <zyp> part that and part lifetime
[22:23] <zyp> micro moved the parts that wear out from the socket to the plug
[22:23] <zyp> so micro sockets don't wear out like mini sockets do
[22:24] <zyp> not that I've ever seen a mini socket wear out
[22:24] <MrScienceMan> :)
[22:24] <fsphil> they're all a bit fiddly
[22:25] <zyp> IMO micro is fine
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[22:26] <zyp> only problems I've had was a board I made with a micro connector that were only held by SMT tabs on the shield
[22:26] <zyp> ripped them off several times on several of the boards
[22:26] <zyp> so on the next board I made with usb, I made sure to use a connector with PTH mounting pins on the connector shield :p
[22:29] <fsphil> aah, nexus 7 can work as a usb host with an adaptor
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[22:29] <Randomskk> fsphil: most have USB OTG
[22:29] <Randomskk> but basically every phone's 3.5mm jack has a microphone input line too
[22:29] <fsphil> yea just finding that out now
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, currently talking about dl-fldigi on androd
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> android
[22:33] <fsphil> just need someone good at android development :)
[22:37] <daveake> I've got a book. Does that count? :p
[22:38] <MrScienceMan> bed time story time \o/
[22:38] <jcoxon> evening all
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[22:40] <fsphil> lol
[22:40] <fsphil> evenin' jcoxon
[22:43] <jcoxon> evening
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[00:00] --- Wed Jul 18 2012