highaltitude.log.20120712

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[05:58] <jcoxon> morning all
[06:03] <Upu> morning
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[06:18] <jcoxon> hey Upu see PM
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[06:43] <jcoxon> ping UpuWork
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[07:04] <UpuWork> pong jcoxon
[07:04] <UpuWork> morning
[07:07] <costyn> hi
[07:27] <UpuWork> morning costyn
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[07:50] <eroomde> jonsowman: Randomskk martlet 1 on hackaday
[07:53] <UpuWork> morning eroomde saw that congrats
[07:54] <eroomde> morning
[07:54] <eroomde> ta
[07:55] <UpuWork> predicting daveake will get on there if this launch is sucessful
[07:55] <daveake> :)
[07:55] <daveake> Morning
[08:00] <eroomde> spacepi!
[08:01] <daveake> Pizza!
[08:01] <daveake> Busy on Saturday?
[08:03] <jcoxon> pi in the sky
[08:04] <daveake> Already got that one on the payload box :D
[08:04] <jcoxon> going to launch then do publicity afterwards?
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[08:05] <UpuWork> yeah lets get it back first
[08:05] <daveake> Between the weather and dodgy SD cards, I want to make sure it's launched first too :)
[08:06] <costyn> daveake: probably going to be new altitude record for Pi? or the Americans beat us?
[08:07] <daveake> No, the pi comes in at 400g, and it's going under a 1200g balloon with another 400g payload.
[08:11] <gonzo_> and a couple pf car batts to power it?!
[08:14] <daveake> 6 AAs
[08:14] <daveake> 5 hours 50 mins (at room temp)
[08:15] <daveake> Could get more with a switching reg but don't have time for that this launch
[08:15] <gonzo_> the dumped power will keep it all warm
[08:16] <daveake> Indeed
[08:16] <daveake> There are 2 regs - 3V3 from 4 of the AAs, and 5V from all 6
[08:16] <daveake> Those last 2 AAs could be AAAs but I didn't have a holder handy
[08:18] <gonzo_> will that cause the lower batts to drain faster than the other 2?
[08:18] <daveake> Yes, exactly that
[08:18] <daveake> The 5V is quite a low current so it doesn't make a big difference
[08:19] <daveake> And just under 6 hours is plenty
[08:19] <gonzo_> well, work to do but an interesting etest flight
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[08:19] <gonzo_> test
[08:19] <daveake> It could all be optimised of course
[08:19] <gonzo_> you can always optimise stuff further
[08:19] <gonzo_> to the point of never beibng ready to fly
[08:20] <daveake> Indeed, and I want this up before anyone else does it :D
[08:20] <gonzo_> ooer
[08:20] <daveake> lol
[08:20] <gonzo_> so is that a 'pie in the sky' project?
[08:21] <gonzo_> or has that pun been used?
[08:21] <daveake> Of course :)
[08:21] <daveake> Yes :)
[08:21] <gonzo_> bugger
[08:21] <daveake> And the label's ready to go on the payload
[08:21] <gonzo_> hehe nice
[08:21] <daveake> Actually, it got used on my last flight which overflew Melton Mowbray
[08:22] <daveake> Obviously someone up there was giving me an idea ...
[08:22] <gonzo_> I saw 650 and 075 as freqs, any ideas on the others yet?
[08:22] <daveake> I did order some switched-mode PSU modules, but from China so I'm not expecting those to get here for another week or so
[08:22] <daveake> 434.2 and 434.3
[08:22] <daveake> We're sticking a 43rd tracker on the Pi balloon
[08:22] <daveake> 3rd
[08:22] <daveake> lol
[08:23] <daveake> Because the Pi and uAVA are both new tracker boards
[08:23] <gonzo_> I should be able to get 2 chans monitored
[08:23] <daveake> So I'm putting a flown Buzz payload (actually the one I got back from Ed after the Martlet flight) in a ball as a second backup
[08:24] <daveake> We'll get someone to direct listeners
[08:24] <daveake> The Buzz one can be forgotten unless it becomes the only one left running on that train
[08:27] <gonzo_> you have the prediction for those?
[08:28] <daveake> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=279018b7820dc9ce9fbedaef379ce2876cbad98a for Pi
[08:28] <daveake> Upu's is for NW of Oxford
[08:29] <gonzo_> Ah, super local landing
[08:29] <daveake> Yup
[08:29] <daveake> Quite close to my very first launch, just over 1 year ago
[08:30] <gonzo_> going for the same tree then?
[08:30] <daveake> That one missed the (many) trees :)
[08:30] <daveake> Landed in a clearing in a forest, basically
[08:31] <gonzo_> a blessed launch
[08:32] <daveake> I was lucky, yes
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[10:00] <WillDuckworth> daveake - do you have a prediction link for launch?
[10:01] <daveake> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=279018b7820dc9ce9fbedaef379ce2876cbad98a
[10:04] <WillDuckworth> good stuff - i should be able to listen out & help
[10:06] <eroomde> see if you can nail RAF beson
[10:06] <daveake> Cool. We'll have 4 trackers one of which has the SSDV and will be running at 300baud, so we need all the receivers we can get :)
[10:06] <eroomde> benson
[10:06] <eroomde> or even martin baker at chalgrove
[10:06] <daveake> :)
[10:07] <daveake> Oh boy does 50 baud seem slow when you've been testing at 600 for a couple of weeks :)
[10:07] <eroomde> reliable :)
[10:07] <daveake> Indeed
[10:07] <daveake> That's what that one needs to be!
[10:07] <UpuWork> reliable is good
[10:08] <daveake> And I'm stepping back to 300 for SSDV anyway
[10:08] <eroomde> how long will it take to downlink a whole image?
[10:08] <daveake> About 7 minutes or so, depending on the compression
[10:10] <eroomde> that's a fecing long time
[10:11] <Darkside> nice pun
[10:11] <UpuWork> I see what you did
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[10:12] <eroomde> i try not to make my error correcting code jokes too convolutional
[10:12] <daveake> "It's currently a problem of access to megabytes through punybaud"
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[10:13] <daveake> I'm at a loss for any more puns
[10:13] <eroomde> it's fine
[10:14] <eroomde> it's difficult to achieve parity with my fec puns
[10:14] <sergey> hi, do you know when is habhub going to work
[10:14] <sergey> we have a project that iis due in 2 weeks and we really need accurate forecast
[10:14] <Darkside> "When it's done" (c) 3D Realms
[10:15] <eroomde> sergey: what specifically do you need?
[10:15] <eroomde> a flight prediction?
[10:15] <sergey> we are launching a balloon in Bulgaria
[10:15] <sergey> yes
[10:15] <sergey> flight prediction
[10:15] <eroomde> that works find now
[10:15] <eroomde> habhub.org/predict
[10:15] <eroomde> but 2 weeks is too far away
[10:16] <sergey> yes, but I was worried it won't be available by then
[10:16] <sergey> this really works
[10:16] <sergey> thank you so much
[10:16] <eroomde> it lets you go up to 7 days into the future
[10:16] <eroomde> but i would not trust the results so much until about 3-4 days before
[10:16] <daveake> Further if you can do 88mph?
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[10:17] <sergey> we are going to be checking it every day a week before that
[10:17] <eroomde> good - that's what we do too ;)
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[10:17] <sergey> are you a part of the team that supports habhub?
[10:18] <eroomde> i have worked on the predictor code in the past, but am not so active now
[10:18] <eroomde> but lots of people on this channel are acively involved
[10:18] <sergey> Salute to those people
[10:18] <sergey> you are awesome
[10:21] <eroomde> how are you getting telemetry from your payoad sergey ?
[10:23] <sergey> a GPS receiver sends data to a microcontroller that modulates it and sends it down using AARP radio
[10:24] <eroomde> cool
[10:24] <eroomde> we like radio here :)
[10:24] <sergey> sure you do :)
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[10:25] <sergey> we have not actualy tested the communication yet as we recently made the final decision on it
[10:25] <eroomde> do make sure that you do
[10:26] <eroomde> especially check the way it handles numbers from the gps
[10:26] <sergey> do you think we'd be able to buy the appropriate hardware and test it in less than 2 weeks?
[10:26] <sergey> you mean the software?
[10:26] <eroomde> yes
[10:26] <Darkside> eek, 2 weeks is pushing it
[10:26] <eroomde> do make sure you really thorough check that it can cope with changing decmal points, or a negative sign, from the gps
[10:27] <eroomde> often this causes problems for people
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[10:27] <eroomde> sergey: this is how we at ukhas usually do it: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[10:27] <sergey> I'll have it in mind
[10:28] <eroomde> i must go now
[10:28] <eroomde> but good luck
[10:28] <sergey> wow thaks a lot for the info
[10:28] <sergey> have a great day, pal
[10:37] <kokey> I had a shell in screen open of when I did a grep through my irc logs for kokey, and I had a massive shock wondering why so many people were saying stuff to my including URLs
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[10:48] <sergey> https://www.facebook.com/PhoenixSat check us out at FB ot tumblr http://phoenixsat.tumblr.com/
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[11:31] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/MuSro.jpg
[11:32] <kokey> sergey: hehe, funny both FB and tumblr are blocked where I work
[11:33] <kokey> Laurenceb: proof of some zionist conspiracy?
[11:33] <MrScienceMan> kokey: must be nice place to work there
[11:36] <kokey> yeah it is actually a nice place
[11:37] <kokey> we do have an open wifi that we can use our own laptops/ipads/iphones on that gives access to facebook etc. though it blocks porn sites
[11:37] <MrScienceMan> is reddit blocked as well?
[11:37] <kokey> hacker news and reddit is not blocked
[11:37] <kokey> google groups are not blocked
[11:37] <daveake> vpn to home allowed?
[11:39] <kokey> I don't host anything on home broadband, servers should be in a data centre
[11:40] <kokey> we can ssh out to a certain degree, don't know about RDP
[11:40] <daveake> Yes, but a VPN to home and you can access what you like on the web
[11:40] <kokey> SSL tends not to be blocked
[11:40] <MrScienceMan> surely, you would at least want to be able to ssh into your homebox
[11:40] <kokey> daveake: well, apart from the most extreme porn, we can do that from the office public wifi anyway
[11:40] <MrScienceMan> https is blocked?
[11:40] <kokey> SSL works mostly
[11:41] <kokey> and I can ssh out to my own servers hosted wherever
[11:41] <kokey> so it works for me
[11:41] <BrainDamage> if ssl is not blocked, you can bypass any firewall
[11:41] <BrainDamage> encapsulate ssh or vpn over https
[11:41] <kokey> I can access my servers to get my hands on code and things that I need
[11:42] <kokey> I can't access stuff I don't need at work, like facebook, unless I use my own laptop or iphone
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[11:42] <MrScienceMan> BrainDamage: when you sait over https, do you mean port or literally over https
[11:42] <MrScienceMan> s/sait/say/
[11:42] <BrainDamage> literally over https, on the https port
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[11:43] <kokey> yeah you can bypass most firewalls by tunneling over HTTPS
[11:43] <BrainDamage> my univ checks packets to ensure it's an https handshake
[11:43] <MrScienceMan> :O
[11:44] <daveake> Ah good, my new passport has arrived
[11:44] <daveake> Just in time, in case Saturday's flight goes pear-shaped ... :)
[11:44] <kokey> I'm waiting on the home office, been waiting since March, they owe me my biometric residence card
[11:44] <kokey> without it, I theory I can't even work here but they issued a letter saying I can while they are having technical issues with mine
[11:45] <kokey> but I can't come back into the UK if I go anywhere
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[11:45] <kokey> daveake: how much is the ferry if you arrive there unbooked?
[11:45] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/12/lohan_ignition/
[11:45] <Laurenceb> oh dear
[11:46] <kokey> actually, I remember something that on the channel train it's fairly cheap if you cross and come back the same day or something
[11:46] <Laurenceb> just when it couldnt get any worse they bring out the thermite
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[11:47] <daveake> Yeah, it's cheap for same day or next day
[11:47] <Darkside> Laurenceb: oh dear
[11:47] <Laurenceb> thermite: first sign of a n00b
[11:48] <Darkside> heh
[11:48] <Darkside> ok, time to clean up some matlab code
[11:48] <Darkside> using things i didn't even know matlab had.. like STRUCTS!
[11:49] <Laurenceb> and ways to use a bazillion cpu cycles
[11:49] <Darkside> yes, that too
[11:49] <Darkside> though all the cpu intensive stuff is hidden away in fortran binaries
[11:49] <eroomde> Laurenceb: "It sounds like Mr balloonatic has previously cracked the very same problem we're having, so we reckon we should give his modified igniter a blast."
[11:49] <eroomde> guess who balloonatic is
[11:49] <Laurenceb> you
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[11:50] <eroomde> good guess
[11:50] <Darkside> lol
[11:50] <eroomde> for once i can tell you that you are correct with your guesses
[11:51] <Laurenceb> oh and you used thermite
[11:51] <Laurenceb> i can only assume you are a noob then
[11:51] <Laurenceb> :P
[11:51] <Laurenceb> a nozzle plug seems simpler
[11:52] <eroomde> i am a rocket n00b yep
[11:52] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:52] <Laurenceb> the "pro" way is a plug
[11:52] <eroomde> i don;t think a nozzle plug is what you want to go for if it has to cope with a 2 hour ascent
[11:52] <Laurenceb> interesting if it works
[11:52] <eroomde> given thier level of engineering anyway
[11:53] <eroomde> you also do have much colder propellants at that point
[11:53] <eroomde> and if it's sealed, it will still be a lower pressure inside because of the air contracting
[11:53] <Laurenceb> well my understanding was you have a small leak
[11:53] <eroomde> so my inclination is definitely to just dump as much mofo heat into the propellant as you can
[11:53] <Laurenceb> and enough igniter to blast full of hot gas
[11:54] <Laurenceb> at several bar
[11:54] <Laurenceb> and plug goes at 20bar or so
[11:54] <eroomde> that's one way and definitely more reasonable for the small motors they're using
[11:54] <eroomde> much harder for us with an M motor of course
[11:55] <Laurenceb> it looked a goer for n-prize when i worked out the masses of all the parts
[11:55] <Laurenceb> but of course i have 0 real work experience
[11:56] <eroomde> it's always real work details
[11:56] Action: Laurenceb is trying to fix winscreen washer pump on a vauxhall corsa
[11:56] <eroomde> i am glad they have gone with my suggestion
[11:56] <eroomde> it was the only sensible one
[11:56] <eroomde> now excuse me as my assistant feeds me a grape
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[11:57] <Laurenceb> seems to have a valve on the end to feed front and back nozzels
[11:57] <Laurenceb> also http://i.imgur.com/ikSmz.jpg
[12:01] <eroomde> thanks Laurenceb
[12:01] <Laurenceb> stm32 video
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[12:02] <Darkside> interesting choice of test pattern
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[12:03] <Laurenceb> should be easier on F3 with analogue comparator
[12:03] <costyn> Laurenceb: whats with the string though?
[12:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.wtc7.net/
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[12:09] <MrScienceMan> lol
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[12:14] <eroomde> Laurenceb: can i guess that they generally don't let you be 'customer facing'?
[12:14] <Laurenceb> :P
[12:21] <costyn> Laurenceb: not convinced yet :)
[12:21] <Laurenceb> RMS is
[12:28] <eroomde> he likes parrots
[12:30] <Laurenceb> but dont buy him one
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[12:50] <hitman_> hi guys , i have a problem , im doing calculations for ascent rate on excel but my ascent rate increases with altitude. any suggestions ?
[12:58] <costyn> hitman_: are you getting different results than the burst calculator?
[13:02] <UpuWork> http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[13:04] <hitman_> yes , im working from 1st priciples , i have varied temp, pressure with altitude , which gives me a varying lift as altitude increases
[13:04] <hitman_> L=Volume *(densityair -densityhe)
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[13:07] <hitman_> v = sqrt( (8 m g) / (p r Cd D2) )
[13:07] <eroomde> you're accounting for the balloon getting bigger in your drag equation?
[13:07] <hitman_> yes
[13:08] <hitman_> do we assume it remains the same cz tht would mess up the burst altitude
[13:08] <eroomde> cz?
[13:08] <hitman_> because
[13:08] <eroomde> your drag equation is fine
[13:09] <eroomde> assuming p = pi and r = rho
[13:09] <eroomde> ascii is so not the medium for this :)
[13:09] <hitman_> yh
[13:09] <hitman_> ascii?
[13:10] <eroomde> plain text
[13:10] <eroomde> ie. can;t do greek symbols
[13:10] <fsphil> kids today :)
[13:10] <hitman_> true
[13:11] <eroomde> but i don't think you want it arranged in terms of velocity
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[13:11] <hitman_> i would like to use the online calculator and burst data values provided on the wiki page bt my professor wants me to do it from scratch
[13:11] <eroomde> you want to solve for when drag + mg = lift
[13:12] <hitman_> L=V* (denair- denhe) , rearranging m= dens * V
[13:13] <eroomde> i can't do this in ascii sorry
[13:13] <hitman_> thts fine
[13:14] <hitman_> can i hv u email id , so i cn email you my work
[13:14] <hitman_> as in send u a picture of the calculations
[13:15] <eroomde> eddy moore at g mail dot com
[13:15] <eroomde> lose all the spaces and replace the at
[13:15] <hitman_> sure
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[14:59] <nick_> Has anyone use XBee modules?
[15:01] <kokey> for HAB?
[15:02] <nick_> no
[15:05] <nigelvh> I've used them.
[15:06] <nick_> Am I right in thinking they have a stupid connector?
[15:06] <UpuWork> ah nick_
[15:06] <UpuWork> pm
[15:07] <nigelvh> Depends on the model
[15:07] <nigelvh> They have ones with chip antennas, ones with U.UL connectors, ones with wire antennas, and ones with RP-SMA connectors.
[15:08] <nick_> I mean the pins
[15:08] <BrainDamage> they use small spacing
[15:08] <nick_> They aren't the standard spacing, right?
[15:08] <BrainDamage> you cannot plug them into a breadboard
[15:09] <nigelvh> Yes, they are odd.
[15:09] <nigelvh> I suggest the sparkfun breakout
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[15:29] <Smrtz> Hey, just got back in town, any thing big happen over the last two weeks?
[15:30] <fsphil> rain
[15:30] <kokey> big rain
[15:30] <fsphil> even ducks are pretty sick of it now
[15:31] <Smrtz> lol, fsphil, well, I live in the US, so, wait, it rained here too.... that rain was huge
[15:31] <fsphil> you're not in the part getting the heat wave then?
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[15:31] <Smrtz> no, I am, just hot rain.
[15:31] <fsphil> we had a bit of a heat wave here today, it got up to 18c
[15:32] <Smrtz> heh, isn't room temp like 27?
[15:33] <nick_> Room temp is ~21C
[15:33] <Smrtz> so 18 is like, not hot, haha, UK is weird...
[15:34] <nick_> Yesterday morning we had brilliant sunshine.
[15:34] <Smrtz> Cool.
[15:34] <nick_> It lasted an hour or so before torential rains began.
[15:35] <Smrtz> you know, I've never seen a whole sunrise. I should launch my balloon just before dawn,
[15:35] <Smrtz> haha
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[16:49] <eroomde> nick_: they are 2mm
[16:49] <eroomde> rather than 2.54mm spacing
[16:49] <eroomde> you can get 2mm headers just fine (there are a few on our hovering rocket)
[16:49] <eroomde> but yeah, no breadboard joy 4 u
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[16:54] <nick_> Did they do that just to be dicks?
[16:54] <nick_> Or perhaps an arduino style cock up that got cemented in place in the name of backward compatibility?
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[17:53] <daveake> evening all
[17:53] <jonsowman> ervening
[17:53] <jonsowman> with an r
[17:53] <daveake> I ran a prediction this morning, and the landing spot seemed familiar ....
[17:54] <daveake> .... it was 0.9 miles, by road, from my first payload's landing spot :)
[17:54] <daveake> Extra HAB points for landing in the same garden?
[17:55] <jonsowman> haha
[17:55] <jonsowman> in the same tree, perhaps
[17:55] <daveake> That didn't land in a tree :)
[17:55] <daveake> It did hit one on the way down, but made it through :)
[17:55] <jonsowman> :D
[17:59] <daveake> Check http://sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/live and scroll down a bit ...
[18:00] <jonsowman> haha
[18:01] <mclane> Hi daveake, I am trying to compile your version of dl-fldigi without success
[18:01] <nigelvh> I like the upside down one.
[18:01] <jcoxon> mclane, which os?
[18:01] <daveake> Mine? <innocent mode>
[18:01] <mclane> ./configure asks for a library jsoncpp
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[18:02] <mclane> which is available in my system (linux mint 12 = ubuntu 11.10)
[18:02] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-ubuntu
[18:02] <jcoxon> voila
[18:03] Action: jcoxon had multiple pages ready to paste depending on the reply to which os
[18:03] <daveake> lol
[18:03] <mclane> but I have libjsoncpp-dev installed
[18:04] <mclane> and succeeded to compile the jcoxon version
[18:04] <Randomskk> haha you'd think that would suffice
[18:04] <mclane> yes, maybe I am naive...
[18:10] <number10> have you had results jonsowman Randomskk ?
[18:11] <Randomskk> well we got our class a while back now
[18:11] <Randomskk> we've been waiting for the per-module breakdown
[18:11] <Randomskk> which jonsowman got in the post today and I'm still waiting for (grr)
[18:11] <jonsowman> :)
[18:11] <Randomskk> so I know what class I got overall but not how far into it or how I did on any of my modules etc
[18:11] <number10> care to tell us?
[18:11] <Randomskk> first class ;)
[18:11] <jonsowman> me too
[18:11] <jonsowman> :)
[18:11] <number10> greatstuff well done to both of you
[18:11] <jonsowman> thanks :)
[18:12] <Randomskk> cheers!
[18:12] <jonsowman> makes the hours locked in the library almost worth it
[18:12] <jonsowman> haha
[18:12] <number10> difficult to get 1st where you are
[18:12] <Randomskk> kind of justifies the insane amount of time/sleep dep in those last couple of months
[18:12] <Randomskk> hey jonsowman remember easter term?
[18:12] <Randomskk> do you remember that.
[18:12] <Randomskk> :|
[18:12] <Randomskk> I made this fun graph of when I got to eat and sleep in the final week of projects
[18:12] <number10> all worth the effort!
[18:12] <jonsowman> i try not to
[18:12] <Randomskk> http://randomskk.net/u/iia_projects_sleep.png
[18:14] <number10> three square meals a week in your case
[18:14] <jonsowman> lol
[18:15] <jonsowman> that was not enjoyable
[18:15] <jonsowman> never mind
[18:16] <jcoxon> mclane, my version will work fine
[18:17] <mclane> ok, then I will stick to that
[18:17] <mclane> thought that I need the other one for the ssdv decoding
[18:18] <jcoxon> you compile it from my github?
[18:18] <jcoxon> or a binary
[18:19] <mclane> compile from github (in both cases)
[18:19] <jcoxon> should be fine
[18:29] <mclane> ok found the issue: a newer version of the lib was needed
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[18:55] <mclane> Hi, someone has already played with the NXP LPCXpresso boards?
[18:58] <jonsowman> i think the stm32 ones are more popular
[19:00] <Randomskk> s/more popular/better/
[19:00] <jonsowman> yes, that too
[19:00] <mclane> what is better with the stm32?
[19:00] <Randomskk> way more people playing with it
[19:01] <BrainDamage> ##stm32
[19:01] <BrainDamage> if you can tollerate Laurenceb and dongs trolling occasionally
[19:02] <jonsowman> lol
[19:02] <mclane> are there nice small development systems?
[19:02] <jonsowman> last time I looked, ST was way ahead in the peripherals game as well
[19:02] <Randomskk> they're really really nice chips
[19:02] <jonsowman> mclane: have a look at the stm32vldiscovery for example
[19:02] <Randomskk> and a gigantic range between the f0 and the f4 too
[19:03] <Randomskk> or any of the stm32 discovery boards
[19:03] <BrainDamage> avoid the vl if you use linux
[19:03] <BrainDamage> or better, use, but it's more finicky
[19:03] <BrainDamage> because it mounts stlinkv1
[19:04] <BrainDamage> all others mount v2, which has no usb protocol abuse
[19:04] <jonsowman> good to know
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[19:16] <costyn> i'm such a fuckup... looked at the datasheet 5x and still manage to solder the reg on backwards
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[19:16] <fsphil> we've all been there once
[19:17] <jonsowman> did it explode?
[19:17] <jonsowman> that's always fun
[19:17] <daveake> I think everyone who's made a PCB has ended up bending the pins on a DIL package 180 degrees
[19:17] <costyn> now trying to desolder a TO-220 from perfboard, meh
[19:17] <fsphil> braid
[19:17] <costyn> jonsowman: no exploding :)
[19:18] <costyn> fsphil: yea using that now
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:18] <fsphil> it's essential stuff -- I only discovered it recently
[19:18] <jonsowman> well that's something
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> so my stm32 based mass storage is getting benchmarked at a consistent 1.8MB/s
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> which is funny as its 12Mbps USB2
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> something is wrong with hdparm
[19:21] <costyn> yay I got it
[19:21] <costyn> would you guys recommend putting a fresh one on there? this one got pretty hot
[19:22] <costyn> or are voltage regs ok with getting hot
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> most are ok with 125C
[19:23] <jonsowman> test it out of circuit first
[19:23] <costyn> hm well I'll just put on a new one and use the cooked one for non-mission-critical stuff
[19:23] <jonsowman> it'll probably be fine
[19:23] <jonsowman> they mostly all have thermal overload protection
[19:24] <costyn> do I need to solder the TO-220 top metal bit to ground as well?
[19:24] <jonsowman> are you sure it's ground?
[19:24] <costyn> yea says so in the datasheet
[19:24] <jonsowman> oky
[19:24] <jonsowman> you don't /have/ to
[19:24] <jonsowman> but it's good practise
[19:24] <costyn> ok.. seems the middle pin and the heatsink top bit are connected internally already
[19:25] <Randomskk> thermally
[19:25] <Randomskk> yea
[19:25] <Randomskk> the main thing is thermal
[19:25] <Randomskk> helps it dissipate heat
[19:25] <costyn> daveake calculated that it would only heat about 25 degrees c even withot a heatsink so I should be ok
[19:27] <costyn> fsphil: my "recent discovery" in soldering was a wet sponge to clean the tip. I can't believe how well it works
[19:27] <jonsowman> pot of flux also works
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, today we tried out the DMM and the voltage divider again, DMM said 4.37 V, VD said 4.2 V
[19:28] <jonsowman> also makes a very satifying hissing noise
[19:28] <jonsowman> +s
[19:28] <Randomskk> what you really want is a tip tinning pot
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> then we got a laboratory power supply, switched it to 4.0 V, DMM said 4.127V and VD said 4.02
[19:28] <Randomskk> which is like a highly active flux plus other bits
[19:28] <Randomskk> they are brutal and amazing
[19:28] <Randomskk> use rarely
[19:29] <jonsowman> does it go psssshhhhhh when you put the iron in it?
[19:29] <Randomskk> tips come out retinned and shiny though
[19:29] <costyn> yes the hissing noise is great
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman, XD
[19:29] <Randomskk> jonsowman: it makes a fantastic noise but also releases vile smoke
[19:29] <Randomskk> you've used them haven't you?
[19:29] <jonsowman> i think so
[19:29] <jonsowman> i should get some
[19:29] <Randomskk> mm
[19:29] <BrainDamage> the brass sponges are supposed to be less shocking for the tip, but I never got as good results as wet sponges
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> Not that secret, Sheldon, the other secret!
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> I'M BATMAN! shhhhhhhhhh
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:30] <costyn> :)
[19:30] <jonsowman> mum smokes in the car. jesus is OK with it but we can't tell dad.
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:32] <fsphil> I got better results with the brass sponge
[19:32] <fsphil> it seems to leave the tip cleaner
[19:33] <jonsowman> i'm lazing and can't be bothered wetting the sponge
[19:33] <jonsowman> hence i use brass swarf
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> today I soldered in all the sockets on my flight board
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> as well as the LEDs, and the decoupling capacitors and the resistor for the DS18B20
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> and I soldered cables to that sensor
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> I am out of 150 Ohm resistors
[19:36] <costyn> jonsowman: i like being able to clean my sponge and the sink is only a couple steps away
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> are LEDs OK with 100 Ohm at 3.3V?
[19:36] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: what about higher? 220 or 330 should work too
[19:37] <jonsowman> costyn: yeah i'm just lazy
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I think I still got 330
[19:38] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: if you need them really brighgt you could try 100 ohm, with 330 they'll be less bright, but should light up
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:38] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: do test before you solder tho :)
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> :) yea
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> I mixed up the lines on the first stripboard
[19:38] <costyn> dont take my limited eleectronics experience as expert advice
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> and sent 4.5V through 150 Ohms
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> result: strange smell and burnt LED
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:38] <mclane> what kind of ide recommended for the stm32f0? - running under linux?
[19:39] <BrainDamage> ##stm32
[19:39] <Randomskk> I use vim
[19:39] <Randomskk> I use vim for everything.
[19:40] <BrainDamage> there's tons of ides
[19:40] <BrainDamage> just have them point the right compiler and you're set
[19:40] <BrainDamage> I use a simple text editor
[19:40] <mclane> ok vim is for the real hardcore programmers
[19:40] <costyn> aaaaah yeaa... sweet sweet 5v finally
[19:40] <BrainDamage> on top of my head: code::blocks, eclipse, geany, anjuta
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[19:41] <BrainDamage> qtcreator might work too, but I don't know if/how to change compiler
[19:42] <BrainDamage> and make sure you install an arm none eabi toolchain
[19:42] <BrainDamage> not a linux eabi
[19:42] <jonsowman> what's the "none" about?
[19:42] <jonsowman> i've always wondered
[19:42] <Randomskk> not building for an OS
[19:42] <Randomskk> vs say linux
[19:42] <jonsowman> ah ok
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> Advanced Bicycle Parking! http://s.gullipics.com/image/s/d/b/5zttlo-jajrud-vn77/IMG0214.jpeg
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[19:46] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: theft deterrent?
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> good question, no idea
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> I saw it like that
[19:47] <costyn> oh you took the pic yourself? :)
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I passed by :)
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> the building in the background is the mathematics department
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:50] <costyn> hehe
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[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> german TV channel for women advertisement: http://s.gullipics.com/image/b/v/3/5zttlo-jajr9p-qygo/IMG0217.jpeg
[19:55] <tomm_> hey, i'm just about to start prototyping my tracker. but, my radio receiver hasn't arrived so i'm not sure how i'd test the circuit? could i upload a picture when I'm done?
[20:00] <Upu> sure Tomm easiest way is do the high / low example
[20:00] <Upu> but put a big delay in
[20:00] <Upu> stick a meter on the out put
[20:01] <Upu> and the voltage should be differing by ~ 0.2v between high and low tones
[20:01] <Upu> back shortly
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[20:05] Action: costyn signing off.. .cya'z
[20:09] <Upu> evening lunar
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[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, how's life?
[20:12] <Upu> busy :)
[20:12] <Upu> getting ready for a launch on Sat
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[20:21] <Laurenceb_> windscreen washer pumps are nasty
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> my pump takes 4A just to get running
[20:26] <Hiena> Do you have a spare one?
[20:28] <Upu> is Graham G3VZV online ?
[20:33] <tomm_> quick breadboard question
[20:33] <tomm_> my breadboard has two outer columns labelled +- on each side
[20:33] <tomm_> but the one in the guide has only 2 total
[20:34] <tomm_> should i wire things to + or - ?
[20:34] <tomm_> my board is the one which came with the uno inventor kit
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> + is for voltages and - for ground
[20:35] <tomm_> so + on top
[20:36] <tomm_> and - on bottom then?
[20:39] <Upu> you can use either but just as long as YOU designate the top as + :)
[20:39] <Upu> and the bottom as GND
[20:39] <Upu> does it have red and black ?
[20:39] <Upu> take a picture of it
[20:40] <Upu> lets see what your seeing
[20:40] <tomm_> sure thing, i'll stick it on imgur in a minute once i get the resistors in :)
[20:42] <daveake> I'd get a marker pen and draw red and black lines on it :)
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[20:50] <daveake> LO LL
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> today we tested the voltage divider against a PSU
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> set the PSU to 4 V, got 4.12V on the DMM and 4.02V on the divider
[20:52] <daveake> ok
[20:52] <daveake> Productive day then
[20:53] <Upu> Shaun Whitehead online in any form ?
[20:53] <jonsowman> Upu: he emailed cusf, i've just replied to him
[20:53] <jonsowman> been in touch with you as well then?
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, yeah
[20:53] <Upu> About the GPS chip ?
[20:53] <jonsowman> no, about launch site usage
[20:54] <jonsowman> unrelated then
[20:54] <jonsowman> :)
[20:54] <Upu> ah ok no he's asking about GPS chips, I'll respond via mail :)
[20:54] <Upu> just easier here :)
[20:54] <jonsowman> i did tell him in the email i just sent to come on here for a chat
[20:54] <jonsowman> so he might appear soon
[20:57] <tomm_> i'm uploading now
[20:59] <tomm_> http://imgur.com/a/AOvQS please excuse the massive wires, and the absolutely appalling resistor placement. i haven't yet put the ntx2 in.
[20:59] <tomm_> (its a bit of a mess, hopefully you can see everything ok)
[20:59] <jonsowman> i'd suggest using (+) for vcc and (-) for gnd
[20:59] <jonsowman> to save yourself endless confusion
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> tomm_, my breadboards are even messier, so don't worry
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:04] <tomm_> haha, the tiny resistor wires are so fiddly
[21:04] <Upu> yeah the red one is a meant to be the common +
[21:05] <Upu> and the blue one common GND
[21:05] <Upu> now without a radio module its going to be hard to test it as the NTX2 has an internal 100k resistor
[21:05] <Upu> do you have a 100k resistor by any chance ?
[21:05] <tomm_> actually
[21:06] <tomm_> i may do
[21:06] <tomm_> but i have an ntx2 as well
[21:06] <Upu> oh use that then :)
[21:06] <BrainDamage> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40949413/mess.jpg as long as you don't end up like this, you'll be fine
[21:06] <tomm_> will do, its rather hard to fit on actually, thanks to my wire mess
[21:07] <Upu> spread it out tomm_
[21:07] <Upu> you have the whole board
[21:07] <jonsowman> hang the RF stage off the breadboard if you can
[21:07] <jonsowman> RF + breadboard = sad
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[21:08] <tomm_> rf stage?
[21:09] <jonsowman> the three RF pins on the NTX2
[21:09] <jonsowman> right hand side I think if looking from the front
[21:09] <tomm_> oh right i see it :)
[21:10] <tomm_> why? does it harm it?
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[21:10] <jonsowman> it's too low power to actually break anything
[21:10] <jonsowman> but when you come to testing and want an antenna attached
[21:11] <jonsowman> if the RF stuff is electrically connected to the breadboard, the breadboard will become part of the antenna
[21:11] <jonsowman> a common thing to do is lie the NTX2 on its back (label upwards) and bend the 4 left hand pins down into the breadboard, leaving the 3 right hand pins sticking out (later attach coax cable for an antenna)
[21:11] <jonsowman> if that makes sense
[21:14] <tomm_> yeah, but how would i solder it in future? wouldn't that break it?
[21:14] <jonsowman> a lot of people lie the NTX2 on it back on PCBs as well
[21:14] <jonsowman> you don't have to, of course
[21:14] <jonsowman> *its
[21:15] <Upu> tomm_ https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0606.JPG thats mounted on the rear of the board
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[21:18] <jonsowman> so tiny
[21:18] <jonsowman> :D
[21:18] <Upu> thats whats going up this weekend
[21:18] <jonsowman> oh nice
[21:18] <mattbrejza> new pico Upu ?
[21:18] <mattbrejza> single AAA|
[21:19] <tomm_> thanks for the advice, i'll spread out the board a bit and try to stick the ntx2 on its side then :)
[21:19] <Upu> no thats a "work horse" payload
[21:19] <jonsowman> you can always add more breadboards if you need
[21:19] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0863.JPG
[21:19] <Upu> thats the top of it
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[21:20] <Upu> the pico is going up with 3 x AA I think
[21:20] <Upu> due to the potential for it to float
[21:20] <mattbrejza> the ntx2 is so big in comparison to everything else, makes it look like theres a lot less then there actually is
[21:20] <Upu> I was going to do some fancy power saving code but I've run out of time
[21:21] <Upu> yes but there is heaps of space under it you can put pretty much anything
[21:21] <Upu> anything SMD anyway
[21:21] <mattbrejza> the tps61200 is a switch up/down which is nice, but switch down is a bit crap
[21:22] <Upu> 90% efficient switch down isn't it ?
[21:22] <mattbrejza> well depends how much it has to do it
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[21:22] <mattbrejza> it drops off quite alot
[21:23] <mattbrejza> its designed as a switch up
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[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> back
[21:24] <Upu> yeah well I think it will be fine with 3 AA's for what I'm doing
[21:24] <Upu> just need to modify a 4 AA holder to take 3
[21:24] <mattbrejza> upu: http://imgur.com/a/SWyR6
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[21:24] <Upu> wb Lunar_Lander
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[21:25] <Upu> interesting
[21:25] <jonsowman> i'm sorry but it really does look like a pregnancy test
[21:25] <Upu> yeah it does :)
[21:25] <Upu> I see a GP and chip antenna
[21:25] <Upu> and a PSU
[21:25] <jonsowman> the IC is a CC430
[21:26] <jonsowman> MSP430 with an ISM band radio built in
[21:26] <Upu> ah ok
[21:26] <mattbrejza> rfm22b is just too big
[21:26] <Upu> 3D printed ?
[21:26] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:26] <mattbrejza> the case is half the weight, but the aim of the project partly was to use the 3d printer
[21:26] <Upu> super light
[21:26] <Upu> so whens that launching ? :)
[21:26] <mattbrejza> when im back in soton and weather is good
[21:27] <Upu> watch that one with interest :)
[21:27] <mattbrejza> the case is about 10g and battery + electronics is 11g or so
[21:27] <mattbrejza> but the scales were a bit crap
[21:27] <Upu> I think my pico is 5g + a battery
[21:27] <mattbrejza> if the 3d printed case was replaced with a bit of foam it would be < 15g
[21:28] <mattbrejza> the main advantage is the payload can fit into the neck of the smallest latex balloon
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[21:29] <Upu> yes I have considered that
[21:29] <Upu> my new board fits in the neck of a ballon
[21:29] <Upu> however its wider than yours
[21:30] <mattbrejza> the neck of the balloon is 14mm
[21:30] <mattbrejza> the gps is 10mm
[21:30] <mattbrejza> but it wont float so a AAA is fine
[21:30] <Upu> have you seen a Hwoyee 1600 neck ?
[21:31] <mattbrejza> yea you could fit most payloads in there
[21:31] <mattbrejza> would get bad photos mind you
[21:31] <Upu> I'm limited by the radio modules I use really
[21:31] <Upu> anyway let me know when that goes up I'll track
[21:31] <mattbrejza> tht cc430 is amazing, my ic count is 2 + gps
[21:32] <Upu> yes it does make your comp count lower than mine :)
[21:32] <mattbrejza> also its a fractional pll, can transmit wherever i want
[21:32] <mattbrejza> and it does uplink
[21:32] <mattbrejza> yet to be implemented
[21:32] <mattbrejza> and you can get them for free :)
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[21:32] <Upu> feel free to open source it :)
[21:33] <mattbrejza> theres not much to open source :P
[21:33] <mattbrejza> although it partly belongs to the uni, not sure how that works
[21:33] <mattbrejza> but if anyone wants help
[21:33] <Upu> ok fair enough
[21:33] <Upu> back soon dog needs a walk
[21:33] <mattbrejza> laters
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[21:38] <eroomde> badger cub was 1 ic + gps
[21:38] <eroomde> just sayin
[21:38] <mattbrejza> was a bit bigger though
[21:38] <mattbrejza> but i believe you used cc1101 based radio?
[21:38] <mattbrejza> but the 8051 core one?
[21:39] <eroomde> yep
[21:40] <mattbrejza> its a nice solution, but everyone seems hung up on the rfm22b/ntx2
[21:40] <mattbrejza> the msp430 core is nicer to use however
[21:40] <mattbrejza> people dont tend to say nice things about the 8051
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[21:44] <eroomde> it is a bit poo
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[21:45] <eroomde> dont get rfm22b hungupness
[21:45] <eroomde> do get it for ntx2
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[21:46] <mattbrejza> yea, especially as soldering a qfn with exposed pad isnt straight forward
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> *do get it for si4432
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> FTFY
[21:47] <mattbrejza> much difference between the si4432 and cc1101?
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[21:47] <Laurenceb_> rfm22b is actually an si4432
[21:47] <mattbrejza> yea i realise
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> si4432 has more features
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[21:48] <Laurenceb_> i want to do a payload with si4432+VCTCXO
[21:48] <mattbrejza> anything useful extra on the si4432?
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> aiui its identical to the rfm22b
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> they sand the top off and relaser it
[21:50] <mattbrejza> im comparing to the cc1101 not rfm22b
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> but you can roll your own pcb with decent xtal drive and matching network
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> for hab they are probably similar
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> you wont want the networking
[21:50] <mattbrejza> tbh all i do is turn on the carrier
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> but uplink would be possible on si4432
[21:50] <mattbrejza> ignore all modem stuff
[21:50] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[21:50] <mattbrejza> same on cc1101
[21:51] <mattbrejza> the si4432 can put out more power actually
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[23:48] <r2x0t> habhub predictor is broken
[23:48] <r2x0t> Server says: downloaded 0% of GFS files
[23:48] <r2x0t> There was an error in running the prediction: Unhandled exception: TypeError: argument 2 to map() must support iteration
[23:49] <r2x0t> ^ that happens when I try to use GFS HD
[23:49] <r2x0t> Starting to poll for progress JSON
[23:49] <r2x0t> There was an error in running the prediction: Unhandled exception: ServerError: 'Server error 0: "/gfs/gfs20120712/gfs_12z is not an available dataset"'
[23:49] <r2x0t> ^ and this when normal GFS
[23:54] <Randomskk> uhm
[23:54] <Randomskk> I think it's an issue with NOAA
[23:54] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: ^
[23:55] <DanielRichman> the second error is indeed an NOAA issue
[23:55] <DanielRichman> if it persists then we'll have to detect it adn work around it but hopefully it will just go away
[23:55] <DanielRichman> will investigate the first thing, one second
[23:56] <r2x0t> ok, thanks
[23:56] <r2x0t> it's like this entire day today
[23:58] <DanielRichman> yeah it's the same issue
[23:58] <DanielRichman> by way of explanation (of sorts): http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs_hd/gfs_hd20120712
[23:58] <DanielRichman> there should be more than just 00z in there
[23:59] <r2x0t> I think there should be 18z now
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[23:59] <DanielRichman> indeed. But there isn't
[23:59] <DanielRichman> the problem is that sometimes the servers say 06z exists
[00:00] --- Fri Jul 13 2012