highaltitude.log.20120706

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[06:19] <MrScienceMan> morning
[06:20] <jcoxon> morning
[06:23] <MrScienceMan> hey, anyone know what battery was powering PICO ?
[06:25] <jcoxon> yeah it was 2xAAA lithium energizers
[06:25] <jcoxon> through a Lipower stepup board
[06:31] <MrScienceMan> 17 hours
[06:31] <MrScienceMan> awesome
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[06:35] <jcoxon> yeah it did well
[06:37] <jcoxon> just doing a quick write up for it
[06:44] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasvi#mkiv
[06:53] <eroomde> jcoxon: do those big party balloons work ok if you stack them together or do tey all burst?
[06:55] <MrScienceMan> Measuring arduino internal temp is a waste of time as it generates its own heat
[06:55] <MrScienceMan> lol
[06:57] <eroomde> it's still the temperature of the arduino though, which is useful
[06:57] <eroomde> also lol
[06:59] <jcoxon> MrScienceMan, well the rfm22 has better temp sensor
[06:59] <jcoxon> :-)
[06:59] <jcoxon> eroomde, if you use more then 1 balloon you have to get the fill identical
[06:59] <jcoxon> or one will pull the rest up and burst
[06:59] <jcoxon> and the be a dead weight
[07:00] <jcoxon> if you want it to float its much easier to go for 1
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[07:07] <eroomde> jcoxon what about the idea of manifilding the balloons together so the pressure equalisies?
[07:07] <eroomde> oh bollockes missed
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[07:14] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "[UKHAS] Re: Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
[07:15] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
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[07:22] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
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[07:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
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[07:50] <eroomde> woo fuel cell hab
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[08:00] <fsphil> that'll work well
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[08:28] <fsphil> would there be enough oxygen at 30km to run a fuel cell, feeding of the hydrogen in the balloon?
[08:29] <fsphil> not that I'm gonna try it, too expensive. but curious
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[09:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Flight announcement - XABEN-29 - Tuesday(10th)/Wednesday(11th)"
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[09:31] <fsphil> yay, launch
[09:32] <UpuWork> indeed
[09:32] <kokey> anyone have any recommendations for an electronics tool set?
[09:33] <kokey> my habit of moving countries has left me with downscaling to two suitcases a few times
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[09:41] <eroomde> kokey: i think it's worth doing bits individually
[09:41] <eroomde> rather than buying a kit
[09:42] <daveake> That's what I do. I buy a Technobag (foam-filled plastic case) and cut the foam out for the tools I want
[09:42] <eroomde> kits are ogten either massively expensive or not expensive enough (i.e. the tools will let you down after a while)
[09:42] <eroomde> i'll let you know what's in my tool box for electronics hand tools
[09:43] <eroomde> 1) a good pair of side cutters, both daveake and I have Lindstrom 8160
[09:44] <eroomde> it's so nice having a well made pair whose cutters align properly and let you cut clean ends on wires (v important for ataching crimpts etc)
[09:44] <daveake> When you die you can hand those down to your children
[09:44] <gonzo_> lindstrom for cutters and pliers
[09:44] <kokey> yeah I've been browsing sets and kits and they all seem to be just not the right mix
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[09:44] <gonzo_> ah, beaten to it!
[09:44] <eroomde> 2) snipe nose pliers from the same range - i have lindstrom 7890
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[09:45] <eroomde> 3) wire strippers. get stripmasters, not the t-rex circumcisers
[09:45] <kokey> I had some lindstroms, they're great
[09:45] <gonzo_> just take care of not abusing them by cutting oversize wires or steel
[09:45] <gonzo_> i've broken a few by catching an adjacent bit of metal. totally my fault though
[09:46] <gonzo_> something like cutters must feel right in the hand.
[09:47] <eroomde> perversely in the uk, they come with a non-useful set of jaws. on ebay you can get the replacement set of jaws for awg 16-26
[09:48] <Laurenceb_> stripmeister
[09:48] <eroomde> i have one of those stanley scalpels with the long blade where you snap off chunks as they get worn
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[09:48] <eroomde> they're really fantastic for stripping large stuff
[09:49] <navrac> my lindstrom plier are 30years old - still good
[09:49] <eroomde> i have a generic digital verner - surprisingly far more useful than you'd think for electronis stuff (if only to find the size of a screw or mounting hole)
[09:49] <eroomde> a fine-point sharpie
[09:49] <daveake> I feel I'm amongst other Lindstrom fanboys :p
[09:50] <eroomde> then, some really good screwdrivers and the discipline to use the right screwdriver for the job
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[09:50] <daveake> +1 re digital veriner. I keep putting mine away and then have to go get it again
[09:50] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[09:50] <daveake> vernier
[09:50] <eroomde> so pozi 0,1,2, phillips 00,0,1,2, flat heads form 0.5mm to 5mm
[09:51] <gonzo_> prefer a real vernier, the electronic ones go flat for a pass time
[09:51] <eroomde> i have a 5.5mm nut driver which is the size of the nuts for M3
[09:51] <eroomde> it's fantastically useful for spitting circuit boards on and off pcb pillars etc
[09:52] <eroomde> and i have a 2mm and 2.5mm hex screwdriver (from the same range with a nice handle) because those are also the sizes for m3 hex head (2mm for button and countersunk, 2.5mm for normal)
[09:52] <eroomde> all the screw drivers are bahco range. they v nice and colour coded so you get quite quick and finding what you want easily after a while
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[09:53] <eroomde> i also have a small (0-20mm) adjustable spanner
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[09:53] <eroomde> devils tools but useful to keep one in the electronics hand tools box just for that time
[09:53] <eroomde> i also have a couple of lindstrom tweezers for smd work
[09:53] <eroomde> and that's basically my electronics hand tools box
[09:54] <eroomde> i will take a photo as tool-talk is the funnest way to not get any work done
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[09:58] <fsphil> it's the most productive way of not getting work done
[10:00] <eroomde> kokey: http://imgur.com/wCd7I
[10:00] <eroomde> the only thing not in the photo that stays in the toolbox is my multimeter
[10:00] <eroomde> i recently spashed out on a decent one which is a decision i don't regret at all, as it's very useful
[10:00] <eroomde> it's a fluke 87
[10:00] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/wCd7I.jpg even
[10:01] <craag> +1 for token sharpie
[10:01] <eroomde> always worth having a few around
[10:01] <eroomde> oh i also keep while electrical tape in there
[10:01] <eroomde> because you can write on it too
[10:01] <craag> Of course :)
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[10:01] Action: kokey is making notes like a demon
[10:02] <eroomde> so say in a fuse box you can run a length of while electrical tape underneath everything and write down what each channel does
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> kokey: In blood and intestines ripped out of a young virgin then?
[10:02] <eroomde> i used to work in a theature and people would do it on the audio and lighting desks like that
[10:03] <kokey> will want to start out with a cheaper multimeter I think
[10:03] <eroomde> kokey: between that and my multimeter, i've not come across anything i can't do electrically (apart from obviously soldering and hot air stuff)
[10:03] <craag> eroomde: Yeah me too. You should see the look on the supervisor's faces when I do it on the Lab equipment at Uni though!
[10:03] <kokey> oh yeah need to get a new soldering iron etc. too
[10:03] <eroomde> kokey: yeah tis fair enough. i can however tell you a few features i find useful on my one that might also be availble on chinese clones
[10:03] <fsphil> this would make a good wiki page, hab toolkit
[10:03] <kokey> remind me, next time I change country and downsize to two suitcases, to keep the electronics toolbox in there
[10:04] <eroomde> kokey: so the fluke has min, max, and average features
[10:04] <eroomde> you can set the saemple rate for the channels from anything between khz and 1hz too
[10:04] <kokey> min max and average is handy, I need to test the oxygen sensor on the car sometime
[10:04] <eroomde> so it has a high accuracy (4.5 digit) mode on 1s sampling, and lower resolution on 1khz
[10:04] <daveake> Other possibly useful things (depending on what type of work you're doing) ... little RS232 LED status tester .... portable 'scope
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[10:05] <SpeedEvil> A phased plasma rifle in the 40w range.
[10:05] <eroomde> so i find the average useful for say a flight computer which is doing stuff on a 30s basis (eg gps on for a bit, txing a bit, asleep at other times)
[10:05] <eroomde> i can just run the avg for 10 minutes to get a good idea of avergae current draw
[10:05] <fsphil> cute
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[10:05] <SpeedEvil> Handy indeed.
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[10:06] <eroomde> i find min super handy in conjunction with high speed sampling mode, because i can do things like capture how low a battery voltage dips when you fire a hot-wire cutter line
[10:06] <fsphil> can it measure watthours?
[10:06] <UpuWork-> Anyone know what the freeware equivalent of virtual audio cable is ?
[10:06] <fsphil> oh wait, you can calculate that
[10:06] <eroomde> no, i guess you'd need 2 multimeters for that, one doign current and the other voltage
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[10:06] <fsphil> right, voltage variations
[10:07] <kokey> ah yeah, that's another job
[10:07] <eroomde> likewise max to see if there are any dangerous splikey bits when a relay clonks off
[10:07] <eroomde> and and you'd be surprised how useful a back-light is :)
[10:07] <fsphil> multimeters is another one of those cases where I don't know what I'm missing, having never used a good one :)
[10:08] <craag> UpuWork-: I couldn't find one, but there are a few cracked versions of VAC around that work well.
[10:09] <eroomde> it also can measure duty cycle (so ratio of one to off in pwm) which i've found useful on a few occassions in the field to check a servo is doing something sane
[10:09] <eroomde> on to off *
[10:09] <kokey> fortunately on a mac it's not hard to do virtual audio cables
[10:10] <eroomde> or rather, check a circuit is commanding a servo to do something sane
[10:10] <eroomde> but basically the contents of the photo + multimeter have yet to let me down
[10:10] <fsphil> can it measure frequency?
[10:10] <eroomde> yes
[10:10] <fsphil> (like a baud rate)
[10:10] <eroomde> yes
[10:10] <eroomde> also useful for sanity checking
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[10:10] <eroomde> tho in both cases a field scope would be the thing to have :)
[10:11] Action: SpeedEvil now has a weather-station thingy.
[10:11] Nick change: UpuWork- -> UpuWork
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> Now, I need to rip open the base-station, and get it to talk to the computer.
[10:11] <fsphil> I've asked Santa for a scope
[10:11] <fsphil> I miss having one
[10:12] <eroomde> kokey: to the right of the main screwdrivers in the photo are the baby ones. i use them a lot less (more for things like fixing mobile phones), except for the tiniest of flat heads
[10:12] <eroomde> which is really really useful for easing a gap in the braid of a shielded cable
[10:12] <UpuWork> hey craag I have a purchase version of VAC but someone mentioned there was a freeware equivalent
[10:13] <eroomde> which is useful when you want to terminate the end with a connector and make the shield/braid into a pin on the connector
[10:13] <kokey> i got a set of small screwdrivers, and ordered some iphone ones
[10:13] <eroomde> that's probably details if you're not doing much with shielded wire but i have done a lot of it rcently making up cables for pressure sensors and so on
[10:13] <kokey> I managed to get my hands on 2 x broken iphone 4
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[10:14] <kokey> one has a smashed screen and one is said to have water damage
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[10:15] <craag> UpuWork: Ah ok, let me know if you find it, VAC is a little overpowered for sdr->dl-fldigi IMO and I don't like using cracked software when there's another option!
[10:16] <kokey> yeah it shouldn't be hard to code something like VAC
[10:16] <kokey> I wonder if there's some other dummy audio driver one can use
[10:17] <fsphil> our local O2 store refused to honour the warranty on pretty much all phones, claiming water damage
[10:17] <craag> Some Audio drivers in Win7 have a loopback option. Unfortunately mine isn't one of them :(
[10:17] <fsphil> even if the phone had been nowhere near water
[10:18] <kokey> craag: you don't need to have a driver specific to hardware for it to offer loopback, if it's happy that way
[10:19] <craag> kokey: Yeah, but the option doesn't seem to come up in the Control Panel unless the Manufacturer's drivers allow it to.
[10:19] <eroomde> kokey: do you have a soldering iron?
[10:20] <craag> It's there on my desktop. Not on my laptop. Both have up-to-date drivers from the Manufacturer's website.
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[10:20] <kokey> eroomde: not any more
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[10:20] <eroomde> ok
[10:20] <eroomde> don't scimp on that either
[10:20] <eroomde> i'd say having a nice iron makes a much bigger difference to happiness than almost anything else of tronics assembly
[10:22] <eroomde> the hobbyist one of choice on t'internet seems to the the hakko fx-888
[10:22] <eroomde> http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX-888-Soldering-Station/dp/B004M3U0VU
[10:22] <eroomde> cusf have a metcal which is more delicious than chocolate
[10:22] <UpuWork> looks like my first soldering iron
[10:23] <fsphil> lies, nothing is more delicious than chocolate
[10:23] <eroomde> and i have a weller wsd-81 but that was given to me by work - probably wouldn't spend that much on hobby
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16000W-peak-8000W-sine-wave-power-inverter-12V-DC-230V-AC-converter-power-tools-/220999475121?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3374985fb1 - and you need an inverter of course.
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> I'm almost tempted to buy that to tear down for the quality of the fail.
[10:23] <kokey> yeah, I've noticed that, I had a small weller adjustable one and it's like going from being crap at soldering like feeling like I am actually not bad at it
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[10:24] <eroomde> but soldering irons and accessories are another convo altogether :)
[10:24] <eroomde> and i'd have to clean my electronics work bench before taking a photo of it which is not going to happen today
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[10:25] <kokey> SpeedEvil: what's the inverter for?
[10:26] <SpeedEvil> kokey: I was just amused at the price, the ad, and the likely build 'quality'
[10:26] <UpuWork> does that invertor come with the girl as well ?
[10:26] <kokey> SpeedEvil: that ad is quite something, for sure
[10:26] <eroomde> field hab-radar?
[10:26] <kokey> UpuWork: yeah, like the cars
[10:27] <kokey> hmmm, need to get a breadboard and some bits too
[10:27] <kokey> headers, wires, etc.
[10:27] <eroomde> i'd recommend a decent tool box of bag too
[10:27] <kokey> haha, I was about to say that, something to put all that in
[10:27] <eroomde> having everything just dumped in a box is a nightmare
[10:27] <eroomde> and you tend to leave stuff out on the desk in preference, which makes the desk cluttered
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[10:28] <eroomde> if you make the toolbox the best possible place to put the tool when you're not actively using it, then you get tidyness and organization for free
[10:28] <kokey> ideally something that's maybe a few boxes, one with parts, a thing or two for tools, and something that can work as a fold away work/soldering station
[10:28] <eroomde> so that means not having any tools stored 'under' other tools, such that you need to move something else to get to it
[10:28] <eroomde> they should all be zero-order accessible
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[10:31] <kokey> man I wish I didn't get rid of my collection of AA and AAA rechargeable batteries
[10:33] <fsphil> yea, they're a bit expensive
[10:33] <kokey> I had loads, including some ansmann AA batteries, they were awesome
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[10:34] <gonzo_> if you have to rummage, you can be sure that the retractable knife in there will be open
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[10:35] <kokey> like on the GP2X.... duracell alkaline: 30 minutes, common rechargables 1.5 hours, best rechargables from high street retailers: 2.5 hours, ansmann: over 5 hours
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[10:36] <fsphil> yikes
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[10:37] <hitman_> hi guys,
[10:38] <eroomde> hi hitman_
[10:38] <eroomde> balloons are too unstable for hanging sniper rifles
[10:38] <eroomde> nice idea though
[10:39] <hitman_> im looking to launch a balloon and recover it using a GSM which texts me the GPS co-ordinates , but im unsure of any restrictions or limatation of GSM . Any ideas?
[10:39] <eroomde> country?
[10:39] <hitman_> england, UK
[10:39] <eroomde> fine
[10:40] <eroomde> no legal restrictions as far as i know
[10:40] <eroomde> but mobile phones tend to stopmes tend to stop working at pretty low altitudes
[10:40] <kokey> GSM doesn't work above a certain altitude, that's your main restriction
[10:40] <daveake> And it may land in a GSM-free zone
[10:40] <eroomde> though every time someone says this another person jumps in with an anecdote about how the sun refacted off some swamp gas and focused the beam from a cell down that allowed then to receive a call while skydiving at 8000ft
[10:41] <hitman_> wht altitude approximately
[10:41] <UpuWork> 5km
[10:41] <UpuWork> ish
[10:41] <eroomde> in my experience, you're lucky to get a text much above about 1.5km
[10:41] <UpuWork> and yeah if it lands in a GSM free zone game over
[10:41] <daveake> I've left a phone on during a flight, by accident, and had a few "welcome to <country>" messages after
[10:41] <kokey> UpuWork: really? means a pico floater could actually get signal from time to time
[10:41] <UpuWork> thats because you were in another country
[10:42] <UpuWork> kokey yes but then you have to hang a heavy phone off one
[10:42] <daveake> Above it, at 30,000+ feet, yes
[10:42] <jonsowman> also some phone networks will kick you off if you're in view of too many masts
[10:42] <UpuWork> hitman_ I don't think I'm alone here in recommending a radio based tracking solution
[10:42] <kokey> UpuWork: yeah but what a good way to get rid of a pile of GSM phones
[10:42] <daveake> <shocked>
[10:42] <eroomde> agreed. radio
[10:42] <UpuWork> it sounds scary complex but its not really
[10:42] <Darkside> +1 for radio
[10:43] <hitman_> radio it is then
[10:43] <Darkside> terry says +1 too
[10:43] <UpuWork> hi Terry
[10:43] <eroomde> we need a kind of 'news team! ASSEMBLE!' button wehere everyone jumps in and does a +1 for radio
[10:43] <UpuWork> hitman_ where in the UK are you ? Which City
[10:43] <daveake> +1
[10:44] <hitman_> im in manchester , r u based in the uk as well UpuWork?
[10:44] <UpuWork> hey Darkside look at our weather are you jealous : http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/292477_332718076813305_650102366_n.jpg
[10:44] <UpuWork> Oh I'm in Halifax so not too far away
[10:44] <UpuWork> you didn't order a module did you from the store ?
[10:44] <hitman_> no i havent ordered anything yet
[10:44] <UpuWork> ok
[10:45] <UpuWork> that was taken 20 mins ago by one of my engineers
[10:45] <fsphil> git
[10:45] <hitman_> im studying in the Uni of Manchester and HAB is my summer research project for uni
[10:45] <fsphil> am I too late for +1
[10:45] <Darkside> UpuWork: awesome
[10:45] <fsphil> damn
[10:45] <Darkside> totally jealous
[10:45] <UpuWork> ok well in that case you have no excuse not to use a radio
[10:45] <UpuWork> :)
[10:45] <Darkside> haha
[10:45] <kokey> ++
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[10:46] <UpuWork> If you want to pop across to Halifax sometime and have a chat about it I can go through it with you
[10:46] <hitman_> tht would be great
[10:46] <hitman_> could you give me ur email so i can get in touch with u
[10:46] <UpuWork> sure pm
[10:48] <hitman_> we r planning to lauch a balloon which gathers temperaure and pressure data and takes pictures.
[10:49] <fsphil> no better reason to fly a balloon :)
[10:49] <hitman_> true
[10:50] <UpuWork> all doable
[10:50] <UpuWork> how much experience do you have with electronics / Arduino ?
[10:50] <gonzo_> advice: when you apply for a notam, do you get a comfirmation of it being in progress or sclience till it's issued?
[10:50] <UpuWork> gonzo_ depends how David is feeling
[10:50] <daveake> latter
[10:50] <fsphil> silence
[10:50] <UpuWork> sometimes he tells you its progress, mostly silence until you chase him
[10:51] <fsphil> I've submitted one a few weeks ago, and nothing
[10:51] <hitman_> a week , i have never used arduino before or programmed in c
[10:51] <gonzo_> ok, was bgetting concerned
[10:51] <UpuWork> hitman_ fair enough still not hard to learn, whats your degree ?
[10:51] <hitman_> im studying aerospace engineering
[10:52] <UpuWork> ok excellent
[10:53] <hitman_> so far ive managed to use codes available online n get the pressure sensors , gps and GSM modules working individually . But when i combined the codes the GPS data is faulty . Any ideas y?
[10:53] <gonzo_> get used to having to pick up totally new systems and concepts in short time, that's what you will face in industry
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[10:54] <hitman_> fsphil: whats ur project about?
[10:54] <gonzo_> sounds like you are getting on well then
[10:54] <fsphil> hitman_: live images
[10:54] <hitman_> thts awesome
[10:54] <eroomde> hitman_: because you have one processor rather than 3, you can't just paste 3 individually working bits of code into one file and expect them to work. its quite likelthy that they're all trying to use the same resources like timers
[10:55] <eroomde> so it takes a bit of subtlety to design the combined flight code such that everything plays along nicely
[10:55] <eroomde> definitely totally doable!
[10:55] <eroomde> just requires you to accept that you might have to start again from basics to build each chunk up so that it works with all the other chunks
[10:56] <eroomde> that's really the challenge of writing software in general anyway - how to structure more complex programs
[10:56] <UpuWork> start simple and break it down into small, testable chunks
[10:56] <hitman_> will do
[10:57] <UpuWork> what GPS are you using ?>
[10:57] <hitman_> em-406a
[10:57] <UpuWork> you know those don't work >18km ?
[10:57] <UpuWork> SiRF III based
[10:57] <hitman_> yes
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[10:57] <jonsowman> em-406 cuts out at 24km
[10:58] <UpuWork> cheers
[10:58] <Darkside> why are you using it then?
[10:58] <Darkside> you'll lose lock and not be able to track the payload
[10:58] <hitman_> wanted to get something working for a start
[10:58] <UpuWork> It'll work for testing code
[10:58] <Darkside> best to get a ublox based gps
[10:59] <UpuWork> Have a look at these : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60 fair disclosure thats my shop
[10:59] <UpuWork> other GPS units are availble
[10:59] <WillDuckworth> quick off the blocks there Upu
[10:59] <jonsowman> :)
[10:59] <UpuWork> lol
[10:59] <UpuWork> M1 J39 : http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/376217_459620084056765_1755586397_n.jpg
[11:00] <kokey> what's happening there?
[11:00] <UpuWork> its raining
[11:00] <UpuWork> alot
[11:01] Action: kokey forwards the link to his phone to check
[11:01] <UpuWork> right lunch time bbl
[11:01] <kokey> there are only a few times that it's good to actually have a 4x4/suv in the UK
[11:02] <kokey> since finding bad roads here are hard
[11:02] <kokey> weird drought this I must admit
[11:02] <kokey> they must have taught me english second language wrong at school
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[11:03] <gonzo__mob> typical vhf nfd weekend
[11:06] <eroomde> kokey: i want one too
[11:06] <kokey> first I discovered that you eat tea, now I learn that a drought is when it rains and floods
[11:07] <craag> gonzo__mob: Yep, it's going to be fun!
[11:07] <kokey> I had a first generation RAV4 in Gibraltar, it was very handy since in Spain some roads are, well, not really roads
[11:08] <kokey> if my current car dies I'm seriously considering some kind of SUV again, of the old toyota flavour or similar
[11:09] <gonzo_> craag: you out at the weekend? What call you using?
[11:11] <craag> I am, I'll be up as G3KMI on 2m and 70cm from just outside Basingstoke.
[11:11] <hitman_> Guys what do u think abt using Canon cameras with the CHDK software for taking images ?
[11:11] <craag> Assuming the farmer lets us into the already waterlogged field. But we'll find out at 9am tomorrow.
[11:11] <daveake> Good
[11:11] <daveake> I've used the A480,490 and 495
[11:12] <daveake> No probs
[11:12] <gonzo_> craag, we are g4rfr and g4bra this weekend. Sure we will exchange points
[11:13] <craag> Ah is that the flight refueling arc?
[11:14] <craag> If so then you're quite close, so I'm sure we will, I'll keep an ear out!
[11:15] <hitman_> Im thinking Canon A800
[11:16] <hitman_> is it easy to configure?
[11:18] <daveake> Yes, just download the CHDK, firmware for your camera, and unzip to an SD card. Then insert in the camera and press a few buttons to load that firmware
[11:18] <daveake> You can make it auto-load but I don't bother
[11:19] <daveake> The A800 is a bit heavier than some but will be fine
[11:19] <daveake> You'll need an intervalometer script, which may be in the CHDK download, or you can find one online, or just write one (only a few lines needed)
[11:20] <gonzo_> craag, yep, flights and Bracknell, we team up these days rather than cause qrm to each other
[11:20] <daveake> You will probably need to put a plug in the video-out socket, so the screen turns off which saves power
[11:20] <gonzo_> right, out of here to load up trailers etc
[11:21] <craag> gonzo_: Ah cool. We are teamed up with Basingstoke ARC who will be on 4m and 6m, I've forgotten their callsign though. Good luck!
[11:21] <gonzo_> we are on 2 and 4, BRA do 70cm and 6
[11:21] <gonzo_> laters
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[14:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Nigel Vander Houwen "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
[14:17] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
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[15:14] <kokey> I think if launches get more regular the payloads will have to be fitted with ADS-B transmitters
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> kokey: Wherea re you?
[15:15] <nick_> I spoke to another teacher today who thought launching a cosmic detector would be cool.
[15:18] <kokey> SpeedEvil: uhm, in London?
[15:18] <BrainDamage> how are you detecting cosmic rays? array of geigers tubes? scintillator?
[15:18] <kokey> BrainDamage: CERN has enough helium to float itself ;-)
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[15:21] <nick_> scintillator
[15:22] <BrainDamage> I cannot find reasonably cheap scintillators, the plastic ones have awful conversion efficiency and the glass ones have ridicolous prices :/
[15:23] <nick_> We've got shelves of them.
[15:23] <nick_> Salvaged from some old experiment.
[15:23] <nick_> I'm hoping I can find some of roughtly the right size/shape so they are essentially free.
[15:24] <nick_> Although I'm looking at coupling them to wavelength shifting fibre, so that will add some workshop cost.
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[15:26] <eroomde> we picked up a rack of glass ones from an old military scrap yard
[15:26] <eroomde> i think there was a 5 by 5 array in a big case
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[15:26] <eroomde> not sure what the original pieces of equipment was
[15:27] <kokey> what did the military use it for?
[15:27] <nick_> eroomde: I also found out something you might be interested it.
[15:27] <nick_> in
[15:27] <nick_> Basically the kids can get some award for doing certain extra curricula projects.
[15:27] <nick_> And this year htey had a few kids who did a rocket project.
[15:28] <nick_> I don't know what they did exactly.
[15:28] <nick_> I only saw them briefly and they were somewhat worried and confused about being dragged out of their class.
[15:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Graham Shirville "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
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[15:31] <nick_> The rocket group would probably be super keen to do my project, although really we want to attract less physics inclined people.
[15:34] <nick_> Hopefully I'll order my new SiPMs next week.
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[15:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
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[15:52] <UpuWork> reality check from Steve :)
[15:52] <UpuWork> Should I release the mail from Oliver about his 2kg cell ? :)
[15:54] <daveake> Is that for a valve heater?
[15:54] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: yes
[15:54] <mattbrejza> for science
[15:54] <daveake> Seriously? I was joking ...
[15:55] <number10> must be a pico if its < 2k5
[15:55] <daveake> oh sorry misread
[15:55] <daveake> Less Pico more Yotta
[15:56] <number10> daveake: do you have a softcase for your 817?
[15:56] <daveake> nope
[15:56] <daveake> Seem a bit pricey
[15:56] Action: UpuWork makes mystical swish
[15:56] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
[15:56] <daveake> I do have an old CD-player case that it goes in
[15:57] <number10> I'll have a look at alternatives cheers daveake
[15:58] <number10> are his emails blocked UpuWork ?
[15:58] <UpuWork> most people are moderated
[15:58] <UpuWork> to keep the mailing list volume down
[15:58] Action: daveake wonders
[15:59] <UpuWork> but generally most get released
[15:59] <mattbrejza> ' dissect a dead balloon LiPo '
[16:00] <number10> well he's a biologist - what do you expect ;)
[16:00] <UpuWork> criteria is it on topic, is it of punitive interest for the mailing list memebers
[16:00] <UpuWork> might be the wrong word
[16:00] <UpuWork> anyway off home bbl
[16:00] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
[16:00] <number10> always watching the clock that UpuWork ;)
[16:01] <navrac> can anyone here dig out the old ozzie2 payload document for me - I could do a new one but I seem to remember that it had to be modified to give fields certain names.
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[16:20] <Randomskk> navrac: what do you need doing?
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[16:20] <Randomskk> I can't atm (at work) but could later this evening, but changing the field names is very easy anwyay
[16:20] <Randomskk> anyway*
[16:21] <navrac> I'll submit a new one on ukhas tools - but i remember the fieldnames got changed to suit some convention - but I cant remember what the changes were so I wanted to look at the old one to get the naming convention right before I submitted it
[16:21] <Randomskk> I can fix the field names quicker than I can dig out the old doc, at the moment
[16:21] <navrac> fair enough!
[16:22] <Randomskk> (coming Real Soon Now: a brand new exciting happy payload doc generator that autosuggests field names!)
[16:22] <Randomskk> (also: a happy web interface to view all your old documents!)
[16:22] <daveake> shiny :)
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[16:22] <navrac> ooh very nice - new toys to play with
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> 'You typed 'n' - do you mean neutrino detector'?
[16:24] <navrac> nuclear power pack ? incase its an astrobiologist submitting the doc
[16:26] <nigelvh> 'nice try' 'notta chance' 'no way' 'not remotely'
[16:26] <DanielRichman> https://github.com/danielrichman/genpayload/blob/master/coffee/autocomplete_data.coffee <--
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[16:29] <kokey> nuclear material would be good for those pico launches, keeps it warm and won't run out of power mid flight
[16:32] <daveake> DanielRichman How about direction --> heading ?
[16:32] <daveake> I always get that one wrong :p
[16:33] <DanielRichman> daveake: thanks, added :-)
[16:33] <daveake> I can sleep easy now then :)
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[16:47] <DanielRichman> navrac: have saved that doc
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[17:25] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:38] <griffonbot> Received email: SP9UOB "[UKHAS] Re: Pico Launch tonight (20:00 BST) from Kent heading North"
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[19:25] Nick change: navrac2 -> navrac
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[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:28] <gonzo_mob> evening
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[22:03] <Laurenceb_> anyone here done low level SD interfacing?
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> like interface the SD without arduino libraries and so on?
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:06] <fsphil> I've thought about it.. probably doesn't count
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> I have looked at setting the SD card interface on my phone to GPIO
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> - actually not that hard
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/AuroraSkywalker/status/221091844539428864/photo/1
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> im trying to understand CMD18
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32-Logger/blob/4f750adcb5137b7ca318efe0583acbba6657f34b/Util/fat_fs/src/sd_spi_stm32.c#L852
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> specifically why they loop there
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[22:30] <daveake> Well my reading of that is: That's just reading multiple consecutive blocks. Cmd 18 sets the address of the first block; the card auto-incs the address for each read
[22:31] <nigelvh> That's what it seems to me as well.
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigel
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> ok
[22:31] <nigelvh> Howdy
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> but wtf is going on here?
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32-Logger/blob/4f750adcb5137b7ca318efe0583acbba6657f34b/Util/fat_fs/src/sd_spi_stm32.c#L621
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> it calls that function once for each block
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[22:33] <nigelvh> Looks like it's saying if the system is set up for DMA, then use that mode, otherwise default to transferring data via SPI
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be busy waiting for each block tho
[22:34] <daveake> Yep. Looks ok, but LOL at "discard CRC"
[22:34] <nigelvh> Fuck CRCs who needs that crap
[22:34] <daveake> :)
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> this is hard to schedule :(
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> VERY hard to schedule :(
[22:34] <nigelvh> At a certain point you just have to say that you're going to dedicate time to something.
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[22:37] <nigelvh> Anyway, time to go home for me. Have a good one all!
[22:37] <daveake> nn
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[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[22:38] <daveake> hi ll
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[22:39] <daveake> it's friday
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> daveake: if i use 512 byte dma transfers i can break each one down into 8 usb transfers
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> i think that achieves what i want without being super complex
[22:54] <daveake> good :)
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> - im trying to do fast access mass storage using 12Mbps USB
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> so if i can interleave the card access and usb
[22:55] <daveake> Quite ... start the DMA, do something else, come back later for the data. etc.
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> well, on getting SCSI request on control endpoint start dma and wait for 64 bytes
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> then start usb send
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> on usb completion wait for 128 bytes
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> etc etc up to 512
[22:56] <daveake> sounds good
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> and i think i can do it by swapping buffer sizes in my usb libs
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> - usb mass storage uses scsi commands
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[23:36] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32-Logger/blob/master/Util/USB/memory.c#L68
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> messy :S
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[00:00] --- Sat Jul 7 2012