highaltitude.log.20120630

[00:11] <fsphil> does it have cats in it?
[00:13] <daveake> Kitt Katts
[00:13] <fsphil> hah
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[06:33] <SamSilver> gm dave
[06:34] <daveake> gm dave
[06:34] <daveake> tooo early
[06:35] <SamSilver> hmm been up since 04h25
[06:35] <SamSilver> work in the hotel trade
[06:35] <daveake> :(
[06:35] <SamSilver> coffe is my best mate
[06:36] <daveake> Went to bed about 2:30
[06:36] <SamSilver> going off in 24 mins
[06:36] <SamSilver> how many payloads do you have reaDY?
[06:36] <SamSilver> last time was two
[06:36] <daveake> :)
[06:37] <daveake> Actual ready is 1
[06:37] <SamSilver> a pico and a camera or 2 one
[06:37] <SamSilver> I have less that half of one ready
[06:37] <SamSilver> than
[06:37] <daveake> I have 4 trackers ready
[06:38] <SamSilver> going to make a quick brew
[06:38] <daveake> Next planned flight is end of July. I had an email from a scout leader doing a HAB with his scouts
[06:38] <SamSilver> afk
[06:38] <daveake> ok
[06:38] <SamSilver> later
[06:38] <daveake> ok
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[06:55] <SamSilver> daveake: back ... the brew was for the wife .... but a bit busy at the mo catch you later
[07:14] <griffonbot> @aitor_llorente9: A por el ahozko, ultimo pasito para tener el #HABE2. Vamooooss!!! [http://twitter.com/aitor_llorente9/status/218965703687016448]
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[07:35] <fsphil> is there no hashtag safe
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[07:48] <Upu> morning
[07:49] <number10> morning
[07:54] <fsphil> mooning
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[08:28] <number10> must get round to making a pico tracker. Upu did you mention a while back an issue with NCP1402 stepup?
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[08:29] <Upu> yeah they don't work
[08:30] <Upu> TPS61201DRC works
[08:30] <Upu> from one cell anyway
[08:31] <number10> thanks - I think I got some 1402s a little while back.. nevermind
[08:31] <Upu> they'll work for 1 cell
[08:31] <Upu> err 2
[08:31] <Upu> not 1
[08:31] <Upu> the TPS module works on one cell for about 4-6 hours depending on your code
[08:32] <Upu> AAA
[08:32] <number10> cheers
[08:32] <number10> lol https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=TPS61201DRC&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=XIu&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=TPS61201DRC+breakout&oq=TPS61201DRC+breakout&gs_l=serp.3...5696.8076.0.8740.9.9.0.0.0.0.149.808.6j3.9.0...0.0.P6SLpedo0Gk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=1deb3a27a4d9b1ab&biw=1472&bih=706
[08:32] <number10> looks like you are the only place on the planet doing a breakout :)
[08:33] <Upu> I'm not really :)
[08:33] <Upu> do you want me to post you a board with one on it ?
[08:33] <number10> well no-one is then
[08:33] <Upu> sec back in 5
[08:36] <number10> is it a tracker board with AVR or just the dc-dc converter cct?
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[08:58] <eroomde> moan
[08:59] <number10> whats wrong eroomde ?
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[09:02] <daveake> mornign
[09:02] <number10> morning
[09:03] <daveake> ^^ first time ever I've spelt something wrong then you got it right :)
[09:03] <eroomde> moan = morning
[09:03] <eroomde> sorry
[09:03] <number10> too much work last week
[09:04] <daveake> Silly netbook PSU died
[09:04] <number10> thats a first daveake, unlikely to happen againm
[09:04] <daveake> Fortunately I've got a car adapter so I've got it running from that and a 12V PSU
[09:04] <daveake> True #10!
[09:07] <daveake> Had a play last night embedding google maps in my base tracking app
[09:07] <daveake> Found that it still shows "markers" in street view
[09:08] <daveake> Like this - http://i.imgur.com/jjdcv.jpg
[09:08] <number10> is it caught in that tree?
[09:08] <fsphil> photoshopped! the balloon looks fake
[09:08] <daveake> Surprisingly not :p
[09:08] <daveake> lol
[09:09] <daveake> As you scroll or move around, the map tries to keep the marker in the correct place
[09:10] <daveake> So it's quite cool to play with
[09:10] <number10> I need a more detailed picture of this http://www.emfs.info/Sources+of+EMFs/Overhead+power+lines/specific/
[09:10] <daveake> Now we need street view in 3D
[09:11] <daveake> I've not managed power lines yet
[09:12] <daveake> The closest I got was the CLOUD/AVA flight, when a tree jumped in the way
[09:12] <number10> there are a suprisingly large number of cables in the open countryside - I am sure you can manage to catch one if you try
[09:12] <eroomde> daveake: we got power lines once
[09:12] <eroomde> in our history
[09:12] <eroomde> it wasn't for perhaps the lightest payload we've ever done
[09:13] <eroomde> i have a picture on my hdd called DoNotRelease.jpg
[09:13] <number10> did you get it back eroomde
[09:13] <eroomde> yep
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[10:08] <jdtanner> Morning all.
[10:10] <fsphil> mornzing!
[10:11] <jdtanner> Nice and windy up here today&this could have been a potential launch weekend for us&luckily we didn't get a NOTAM for it!
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[10:12] <fsphil> DM looking out for you again :)
[10:12] <number10> what days are you planning for
[10:12] <jdtanner> Well, my problem is that I'm really busy now until the end of July&so we are going to ask for dates in August
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[10:23] <cuddykid> morning
[10:23] <cuddykid> sodding wind!
[10:23] <cuddykid> could have launched today -_-
[10:23] <jdtanner> tell me about it&and the cloud
[10:23] <cuddykid> yeah :(
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[10:25] <cuddykid> next week doesn't look much better
[10:26] <cuddykid> my next chance will be in august
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[10:29] <jdtanner> snap
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[10:33] <fsphil> raining here now
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[11:37] <Laurenceb_> no launches :(
[11:48] <fsphil> nope
[11:48] <fsphil> silly atmosphere
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[12:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/lit.jpg - I can see my house from here!
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> (not quite)
[12:07] <fsphil> I can see the streetlights from my town
[12:07] <fsphil> neat
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> It's interesting how much streetlighting remains orange
[12:09] <Dutch-Mill> Is it burning ;-)
[12:10] <fsphil> infected
[12:10] <Dutch-Mill> Nice pica BTW
[12:10] <fsphil> looks like bacteria :)
[12:10] <fsphil> London has too many lights
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> Look at belgium.
[12:12] <Dutch-Mill> Do you mean the spot opposite London ?
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[12:12] <fsphil> belgium is oddly red
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much.
[12:13] <Laurenceb_> you can see my town
[12:13] <Laurenceb_> it seems to have motion blur
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: the exposures are ~0.5s
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> And the camera is pointed in a constant direction, so you get ~2km of blur
[12:14] <Dutch-Mill> Yes all the highways are illuminated at night
[12:17] <Laurenceb_> ah
[12:17] <Dutch-Mill> launches in the planning te comming weeks?
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[12:19] <Laurenceb_> whats the blue glow?
[12:20] <russss> the blue is diffracted sunlight I suspect
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> ah
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> makes sense
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Seems unlikely in that direction - the center of the glow is damn near straight north.
[12:21] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[12:21] <russss> well it is summer
[12:21] <Laurenceb_> aurora is higher
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> actualy
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> no, it's a fair bit off, and blue aurora are uncommon
[12:22] <fsphil> the sky stays fairly blue most of the night in the summer
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[12:22] <russss> if it's summer then the north pole is always going to be sunlit, so you will see light in that direction
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> The horizon for ISS is nowhere near the arctic circle, but maybe it may diffract far enough, I guess.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> I guess you only need to see the sky - which is going to be a lot further
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[13:17] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: ping
[13:18] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: pong
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> i thought you might be able to help with this - I'm trying to phase a bunch of orthoigonal carriers
[13:19] <Darkside> ugh, not really
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> so that the ratio of peak to average power is mimimized
[13:19] <Darkside> yeah, can't help with that
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> the maths is a bit odd
[13:19] <Darkside> something to do with IFFTs?
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> someones got to have come up with a solution to this
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> ive got 4 carriers
[13:20] <Darkside> yeah i really don't know
[13:20] <Darkside> i haven't looked deep into OFDM
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> they beat together
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> i want to phase them so as to minimize the beating
[13:20] <Darkside> i thought the way to generate those kind of signals was to use an inverse FFT?
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> erm
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> thats just how the ofdm transmitter works aiui
[13:21] <Darkside> yeah
[13:21] <Laurenceb_> im actually trying to write some code to generate the phase offsets - theres no data on the carriers
[13:21] <Darkside> i dunno then
[13:21] <Laurenceb_> just plane carriers with no modulation
[13:21] <Laurenceb_> ok nvm then
[13:21] <Darkside> wouldn't that mean you have a fixed value which you take the ifft of?
[13:21] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[13:22] <Laurenceb_> i dont really follow you
[13:23] <Darkside> ok, so with OFDM you take the IFFT of an array of symbols, right?
[13:23] <Darkside> how about generating constant symbols
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[13:28] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: say, take a ifft of [1,1,1,1]
[13:28] <Darkside> repeat the result, interpolate up and mix
[13:28] <Darkside> or whatever
[13:28] <Darkside> i'm not really sure how OFDM is implemented in the real world
[13:28] <Darkside> one of my supervisors has a book on it i think
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> yeah sure
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> but i dont have any data
[13:31] <Upu> and gorgeous sun again
[13:32] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: then use constant symbols
[13:32] <Darkside> if you continually take the ifft of [1,1,1,1] you'll just end up with multiple parallel sine waves on the output
[13:33] <Darkside> then you could try something like [1,-1,1,-1] and 2 of the sines should have the opposite phase
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats what im confused by
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> i want some phases that minimizes beating
[13:35] <Darkside> well if you are using an ifft with no windowing, the resultant outputs should have a sinc response
[13:35] <Darkside> and should all match up, and shouldn't mix at all
[13:35] <Darkside> i think
[13:36] <Darkside> i thought you got the orthogonal part for free with OFDM
[13:36] <Darkside> orthogonal meaning the carriers shouldn't cause interference with each other
[13:37] <Laurenceb_> sure
[13:37] <Laurenceb_> its working fine
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> but i want to maximize adc performance by reducing peak to average amplitude ratio
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> e.g. with three carriers and no data i start with two in phase (the "zero" frequency and the +1 frequency) and the other -1 frequency in antiphase
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> that gives minimum beating for three carriers
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> im trying to work out what the solution is for n carriers
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[13:39] <Laurenceb_> do i just start alternating the phases?
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> 0,-pi,0,-pi,0 etc?
[13:40] <Darkside> no idea
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[13:48] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Umm - doesn't that only work for the unmodulated case?
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> I haven't thought about this in detail, but my intuition says what you want is inherently impossible.
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> Or at least impossible without reducing channel capacity
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> you have precluded sets of correlated symbols
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> Or should I go back to sleep.
[13:51] <Laurenceb_> it is unmodulated
[13:51] <Laurenceb_> im trying to accurately measure attenuation
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> doesn't simply FFTing with bins aligned to the ofdm inherently do that?
[13:52] <Laurenceb_> i think you get all thw carriers aligned
[13:52] <Laurenceb_> then its really pulsey
[13:53] <Laurenceb_> my idea is to phase the carrier differently so they dont beat as strongly
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> Assuming you have your traditional OFDM with narrow channels at a comparatively high frequency (say 10KHz at 250MHz) - I don't see you can do anything meaningful at all.
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[13:55] <SpeedEvil> All the channels will inherently slip against each other at .000001 degrees a cycle.
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> Or whatever
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> If they are not slipping, they aren't orthogonal anymore
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> The 'beat' is only visible if you don't modulate them.
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> If you modulate them, it dissapears.
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> - though of course the peaks reappear data driven - which you can in principle remove.
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> (at a loss of channel capacity)
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[13:59] <Darkside> so this is why the idle pattern might be a pseudorandom sequence
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[14:01] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> The above is all handwavey - I don't have a good understanding of the maths.
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[14:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti.com/ww/en/analog/dataconverters/gigadc/rf-sampling.shtml
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> Funky
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[15:35] <Hiena> Anybody has idea for direction sensing PCB antennaes? I have to design a ground module which could track the signal source, without moving parts. I thought ro print a logper antennaes around a pcb edge and switching them.
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[15:39] <joph> there was a special kind of antenna
[15:39] <joph> http://www.wolfgang-rolke.de/antennas/ant_300.htm#350
[15:43] <gonzo_mob> you can use pairs of gp or dipoles and switch them at a few khz
[15:43] <gonzo_mob> then listen in fm for a tone
[15:44] <gonzo_mob> if the antennas are equidistant tk the source you should get a null in the tone
[15:44] <gonzo_mob> google for a doppler direction finder
[15:45] <gonzo_mob> datong used to make one
[15:49] <Hiena> Hmm, sounds promising.
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[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: Of course, you can use physically seperated antennas, and track phase
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> In principle even seperated by a few, or any meters.
[16:05] <Hiena> Yup, now i'm thinking some pinhole antennae configuration. If i remember correctly, there is a way to block or focus the signal using static magnetic field.
[16:07] <WillDuckworth> ping upu
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[16:12] <SpeedEvil> Umm...
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> I think you may be confused.
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're meaning magnetic switches
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> you can't affect RF using magnetic fields.
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> (at normal intensities)
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[16:43] <Upu> pong WillDuckworth
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[16:56] <WillDuckworth> hi upu - was trying to find that soldering tutorial on youtube - was it this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY
[17:01] <nick_> Are there any GPS chips that can trigger time/locations to be read out later
[17:01] <nick_> ?
[17:14] <eroomde> can you be more specific?
[17:15] <eroomde> the gps chipset itself triggers some event that involves a time being read out after a time delay?
[17:15] <eroomde> i cannot parse
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[17:18] <nick_> Say you wanted a very accurate time sequence of triggers
[17:19] <nick_> That could come along fast enough that you can't read out the data string between them
[17:19] <nick_> Are there any chips where you can buffer the time/location to read out later?
[17:20] <daveake> What's a trigger? And how accurate?
[17:21] <nick_> A trigger just being a rising/fall edge on a signal
[17:22] <daveake> Still not with it. Do you just want the time very accurately? Or is this smoething to do with the location
[17:22] <daveake> ?
[17:22] <nick_> Mostly the time
[17:23] <nick_> But I want a couple of times, maybe quite a few ns apart
[17:23] <daveake> OK, well plenty of them will give you a square wave that is very very accurately timed
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[17:23] <daveake> So what's tellig it/you when those 2 times are happening?
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[17:24] <daveake> Is there some other signal or something and you want to know when that is happening?
[17:24] <nick_> Basically I'd like to be able to send it two pulses very quickly, and then a little later ask it when they really were.
[17:24] <daveake> OK gottit
[17:25] <daveake> And you need those to the odd ns or so?
[17:25] <nick_> In a way that I can compare with things at other locations (and so GPS would be a good timing choice)
[17:25] <eroomde> nick_: what sort of time resolution would be adequate?
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[17:26] <nick_> It would have to be better than microseconds
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil, Darkside: solved the carrier problem
[17:26] <nick_> But probable not ns
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> +ive frequencies start at 0 phase, negative at pi phase
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> then the peak amplitude goes with sqrt(number of carriers+2)
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> for more than 2 carriers
[17:27] <daveake> Well plenty of processors have counters that you can get latched by an external signal
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> but the proof is a little involved
[17:28] <daveake> And plenty of GPS chips have a synced square wave output as well as the NMEA
[17:28] <eroomde> what daveake says
[17:28] <daveake> So you could use the square wave output to start a counter in the processor, and stop it on this external happening
[17:29] <eroomde> so the gps square wave output on the ublox 6 can be programmed up to 10MHz on the nicewr models
[17:29] <eroomde> but note that the rising edge jitter is up to 60ns
[17:29] <daveake> And just use the NMEA to give you the actual time the last transistion happened on that square wave
[17:29] <eroomde> if microseconds accuracy is ok then this should be note too much of a problem
[17:29] <daveake> Yeah that jitter is your limiting factor
[17:29] <daveake> whs
[17:30] <eroomde> if you need better accuracy eg for ToF applications, you can smooth out the rising edge jitter by passing the square wave into a phased locked loop which is sort of like a kalman filter
[17:30] <Laurenceb_> id use a vctcxo
[17:30] <daveake> You could probably reduce the effect of the jitter with some cleverness
[17:30] <daveake> Anyway loads of ways but just use the GPS as a starting time reference
[17:30] <eroomde> and the phase locked loop would output a sinwave and then you could log the phase (so voltage) at which the event occured to really very very high accuracy indeed
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[17:31] <daveake> ^^ example cleverness
[17:31] <daveake> If I had a landie I'd get this - http://dvlaregistrations.direct.gov.uk/buy.html?plate=L44%20HAB&price=255
[17:31] <eroomde> :)
[17:31] <eroomde> i'm working on a landie
[17:31] <daveake> :)
[17:31] <daveake> I'm tempted actually :)
[17:32] <eroomde> sadly my decision to leave consultancy to do the idealistic space startup sort of prevents that for a while
[17:32] <eroomde> nvm
[17:32] <daveake> But I can see that as a start of some considerable expenditure
[17:32] <eroomde> i did see that they sell ex 'service' defenders for quite cheap
[17:32] <eroomde> so, the sort of things that southern electric drive around it
[17:32] <daveake> No idea if it's possible to run one at low annual mileage cheaply
[17:32] <daveake> :)
[17:32] <eroomde> with a very complete logbook serviced every 300 miles
[17:32] <daveake> wow
[17:32] <eroomde> they sell them at 150,000miles but the engines are typically good to 300,000
[17:33] <daveake> Good sevicing outweighs mileage
[17:33] <eroomde> and they come with winches and auxilliary power and other niceties
[17:33] <eroomde> usually about £7k
[17:33] <daveake> Tree-pulling winchies?
[17:33] <eroomde> :)
[17:33] <eroomde> with the right mechanical linkage :)
[17:33] <daveake> :)
[17:33] <eroomde> 3000 miles not 300 sorry
[17:33] <eroomde> that would be what i might go for if i found myself with that option
[17:34] <eroomde> was mega useful to have access to one up in scotland for the rocket
[17:34] <eroomde> and we used the winch to pull it out of a peat bog
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/controlled-oscillator/4789050/
[17:34] <eroomde> what is the significance of L44?
[17:35] <daveake> Landie 4x4
[17:35] <daveake> Plenty of other HAB options
[17:35] <nick_> How long does it take to read out the data from a GPS chip?
[17:35] <daveake> That's cheap though
[17:36] <eroomde> nick_: depends on 2 things
[17:37] <eroomde> 1) the uart freq you select
[17:37] <eroomde> 2) whether you're in NMEA of one of the proprietary binary modes, ug ubx in the case of the ublox modules
[17:37] <eroomde> eg ubx*
[17:37] <nick_> NMEA=?
[17:37] <eroomde> the 'standard' for naviagation modules
[17:38] <eroomde> it's an ascii string over rs232
[17:38] <eroomde> that has a bunch of naviagtion messages
[17:38] <eroomde> the most common is obviously the navigation message that gives you lat/lon/alt
[17:38] <eroomde> but there are various other messages in the standard that the client device can ask for, covinf all sort of things
[17:39] <eroomde> where each of the sats are, their singal to noise ratio, the confidence in the position estimate, etc
[17:39] <eroomde> all sorts of things
[17:39] <eroomde> i think the whole standard is nmea-183
[17:39] <eroomde> but don't remember
[17:40] <eroomde> kapow!
[17:41] <eroomde> so, thats the thing that lets you plug in any old gps into any old thing that needs a gps
[17:41] <eroomde> BUT
[17:41] <eroomde> most manufacturers also have their own more flexible binary interfaces
[17:41] <eroomde> in addition to nmea
[17:41] <eroomde> which the client can configure the gps unit to use by sending it a message
[17:42] <daveake> nick_ If you're thinking about relating when the read the time from NMEA to when that actual time is or was, it should relate to the last/next (I don't know which) edge on the square wave output
[17:43] <daveake> You'd need to read the manwell on the particular GPS chip
[17:43] <eroomde> in the case of ublox that's called UBX, and you can crank the baud rate right up and communicate with binary and do all sorts of things, for example smartphones often download the gps ephemeris data over 3g, which is much faster than the 50baud gps signal, which includes info about where the sats how, what constant to stick into the ionospheric ToF correction factor, and other things like that
[17:43] <eroomde> and they then squirt that to the gps module over serial
[17:43] <daveake> I know someone who has used Ublox to get an accurate time reference, so I'd start there
[17:44] <Randomskk> eroomde: do you have a custom/aftermarket stand for your screens? you seem like the kind of person who might
[17:44] <eroomde> what am i meant to read into that?
[17:44] <eroomde> ^
[17:44] <Randomskk> yea
[17:44] <Randomskk> I've been looking at http://www.ergotron.com/Products/tabid/65/PRDID/354/language/en-GB/Default.aspx
[17:45] <eroomde> i liked it because of the -tron suffix inkeeping with cusf nomenclature policy
[17:45] <Randomskk> yup
[17:45] <Randomskk> ^ seems really nice but it costs the same as one of my screens...
[17:45] <eroomde> yes that's the exact one
[17:45] <Randomskk> hah nice
[17:45] <eroomde> and yes same conundrum
[17:45] <eroomde> which is why having an emplyer is cool
[17:45] <Randomskk> I bet
[17:45] <Randomskk> is it really nice to have?
[17:46] <Randomskk> being able to move around and rotate the screens that easily seems very nice
[17:46] <Randomskk> being able to clamp it to the desk so removing two gigantic stands that came with the screens also seems very nice
[17:46] <eroomde> well i can get the psu and other stuff in underneath the screen
[17:46] <Randomskk> as otherwise it uses up so much desk spae
[17:46] <eroomde> which makes it nice for tronics
[17:46] <Randomskk> my thoughts exactly
[17:47] <Randomskk> no annoyances with the screens losing position or anything?
[17:47] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bgelb/2492304401/in/set-72157605060449577
[17:47] <eroomde> no they're quite robust
[17:48] <Randomskk> nice
[17:48] <Randomskk> very tempted then
[17:48] <eroomde> but again, lotsa money
[17:48] <Randomskk> mm
[17:48] <eroomde> that's a lot of pcbs
[17:48] <Randomskk> pretty much down to if I end up working this holiday
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[17:49] <Randomskk> though between that, a turntable, some high capacity disks for my NAS/media server, nexus 7... lot of expensive tech to choose between
[17:52] <eroomde> i'm lucky now
[17:52] <eroomde> work is paying for pcbs
[17:52] <eroomde> though not for anything else
[17:53] <Randomskk> fast nice PCBs or seeed style?
[17:54] <eroomde> fastish
[17:54] <eroomde> 5 days
[17:54] <eroomde> send off on friday, solder up next friday
[17:54] <Randomskk> nice enough
[17:54] <Randomskk> and at that price.. :P
[17:55] <eroomde> actually what is lucky is that work and hobby are quite overlappy atm
[17:56] <nick_> How much do you pay for 5 day turnaround
[17:56] <nick_> ?
[17:58] <Laurenceb_> <£200 in my case
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[17:59] <eroomde> yes that's about right
[17:59] <eroomde> obviously depends on size and quantity
[18:00] <eroomde> but 2 or 3 boards of the order of 10cm x 10cm, double sided with all the trimmings, about £100+
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> pcbtrain?
[18:00] <eroomde> pcb-pool
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> ah
[18:00] <eroomde> they throw in a free stainless steel laser cut stencil
[18:00] <eroomde> whic totally seals the deal
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> pcbtrain piss me off
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> ill try them
[18:01] Action: Laurenceb_ looks at his pile of pcbtrain failures
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[18:03] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: did you see this from yesterday?
[18:03] <eroomde> forgive my proud father bit
[18:03] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/OG2qG.jpg
[18:03] <Laurenceb_> wow
[18:03] <Laurenceb_> nice work
[18:03] <nick_> Whose great idea was it to use dm^2?
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> regen cooled?
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[18:04] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: no abalatic chamber still
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> ah
[18:05] <eroomde> but a new liner so very clean burn
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> is that a linear actuator?
[18:05] <eroomde> yep
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> what are you using as the liner?
[18:05] <eroomde> we did some actuation in that test
[18:05] <eroomde> gave it a wiggle
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> this is for hover vehicle then?
[18:05] <eroomde> phenolic
[18:05] <eroomde> yes
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> tufnol?
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> nice
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> has it got the pintel injector?
[18:06] <eroomde> no, this one is still the impingers
[18:06] <eroomde> the pintle one is still being cold-flow tested
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> ok
[18:07] <eroomde> we're going to hack a lot with thus engine for a bit
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> is this for reaction engines or fun?
[18:07] <eroomde> basically we're going to spend 6 months playing whack-a-mole going around the whole rocket improving subsystems
[18:07] <eroomde> this is our own fun project
[18:07] <eroomde> after-hours
[18:08] <eroomde> it's also a nice testbed for a bunch of ideas we have
[18:10] <eroomde> 3rdly, amazing how showing people actualy flying hardware makes them much more excited than discussing it
[18:10] <eroomde> even if it's the same thing
[18:10] <eroomde> their face lights up and they say 'ah! we need to talk!'
[18:11] <eroomde> most convincing lesson of engineering business i've learned so far from experience, by a mile
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[20:16] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Congratulations! Did it make a nice noise? :)
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Interesting - I think my 'proof' was based mostly on 2 carriers -I guess with >2, it is more complex. Statistically - does it matter - how often do the peaks occur? Is it simply every .1ms you get a ridiculously large peak for 10khz spacing?
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[20:18] <eroomde> pssssssssschhhhhhhhhhhRRRAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWBANGBANGBOOMPANG! silence
[20:18] <eroomde> there were some shutdown transients
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: And does this have any practical application in real systems where you're feeding it with a randomised input?
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: :)
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> is that a fully expanded output?
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[20:26] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: yep
[20:26] <eroomde> ish
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> What's thrusts? ~10kg?
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[20:36] <eroomde> 35kg
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[21:06] <griffonbot> @ApexLumia: Test #ukhas [http://twitter.com/ApexLumia/status/219174972982165505]
[21:06] <danielsaul> Whoo
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[21:35] <fsphil> lumia?
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[21:38] <Upu> ping eroomde http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=976LHTpnZkY
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[00:00] --- Sun Jul 1 2012