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[06:08] <griffonbot> Received email: SP9UOB "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Launch 23.06.2012 Gliwice glider airport / Poland"
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[06:55] <UpuWork-> morning
[06:55] Nick change: UpuWork- -> UpuWork
[06:57] <Darkside> hey UpuWork
[06:57] <UpuWork> evening Darkside
[06:57] <UpuWork> I'm going to have a look at that RSSI stuff this evening
[06:57] <UpuWork> sorry didn't do it this weekend
[06:58] <Darkside> np
[07:04] <UpuWork> the library I use doesn't have those functions in it
[07:07] <Darkside> ahh
[07:07] <Darkside> that'd be why
[07:07] <Darkside> i'm surprised it even compules
[07:08] <Darkside> it must have stubs or something
[07:08] <UpuWork> no I used your libraries
[07:08] <Darkside> hrm
[07:08] <UpuWork> took me a while to find them
[07:08] <Darkside> i emailed them to you
[07:08] <UpuWork> but I check through the ones I was using and that function isn't present
[07:08] <Darkside> hopefully it'll work with those libraries
[07:08] <UpuWork> yes I mean before you mailed them to me
[07:08] <Darkside> ok
[07:09] <UpuWork> did you mail or link ?
[07:09] <Darkside> oh, i linked
[07:09] <Darkside> want the link again?
[07:09] <UpuWork> sec just checking
[07:09] <Darkside> was on dropbox
[07:09] <UpuWork> yeah sorry can I have it again pls
[07:09] <Darkside> ok hold on
[07:10] <Darkside> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xcynrig6e0iadms/RF22.zip
[07:11] <UpuWork> got it thanks
[07:32] <MrScienceMan> dropbox should support wget for public links
[07:39] <UpuWork> wget works on that link
[07:39] <UpuWork> oh
[07:39] <UpuWork> no it doesn't
[07:39] <UpuWork> i see what you mean
[07:40] <eroomde> morning
[07:40] <UpuWork> morning Ed
[07:40] <MrScienceMan> all it needs to do is check for the wget user-agent and redirect
[07:40] <MrScienceMan> https://dl.dropbox.com/s/xcynrig6e0iadms/RF22.zip?dl=1
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[07:49] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/69676024@N07/7432603668/in/photostream
[07:50] <eroomde> finished off the connectors to the hovering rocket linear actuators yesterday
[07:50] <eroomde> more software and electrical today, and hopefully a hold-down test fire of the hovering rocket tomorrow!
[08:11] <UpuWork> interesting
[08:11] <UpuWork> will there be video ?
[08:12] <eroomde> fo sho
[08:12] <eroomde> well the test tomorrow is for some kind of documentary
[08:13] <UpuWork> I ordered that DVD btw
[08:13] <eroomde> involving dick-moustache-strawbridge
[08:13] <UpuWork> lol
[08:13] <russss> hah
[08:13] <eroomde> but hopefully we'll be getting through a great deal of N20 and IPA this summer
[08:13] <UpuWork> can't argue with someone who has a moustach like that
[08:13] <eroomde> as we get it hovering stabley and able to land reliably
[08:14] <eroomde> well on our site we also have Daniel Jubb
[08:14] <eroomde> who is working on the hybrid for bloodhound
[08:14] <eroomde> http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47370000/jpg/_47370392_pumpimpeller.jpg
[08:14] <eroomde> so i'm hoping to get them to touch or at least see each other, and see if they annihilate
[08:14] <UpuWork> is that 'tach real ?
[08:15] <eroomde> yes it is
[08:15] <UpuWork> lol
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[08:15] <eroomde> it's remarkable
[08:15] <eroomde> he's always in a 3-piece aswell
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[08:16] <eroomde> a bit of an eccentric, though perhaps a touch knowingly
[08:17] <UpuWork> nothing wrong with eccentric
[08:18] <eroomde> the latter clause is where the issue arrises
[08:18] <UpuWork> yeah
[08:19] <eroomde> anyway, so fun for the whole family atm
[08:20] <eroomde> and will take lots of videos
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[08:59] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Destruction_of_KIWI_Nuclear_Reactor_-_GPN-2002-000145.jpg
[08:59] <Laurenceb_> that looks kind of insane
[09:01] <Laurenceb_> white hot plutonium shower
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[09:27] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:28] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@ Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
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[11:48] <Laurenceb> this is odd
[11:48] <Laurenceb> i left some two component silicone rubber curing ontop of some silicone sheet
[11:49] <Laurenceb> put it on on friday morning, and it set within a few hours and peeled straight off
[11:49] <Laurenceb> but the stuff i left over the weekend is really well bonded
[11:50] <Laurenceb> seems there is a bonding process going on for a day or two after the rubber has hardened
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[12:46] <LBCran> Hello!
[12:48] <UpuWork> afternoon
[12:49] <UpuWork> its a bit quiet this afternoon so apologies for the slow response
[12:49] <LBCran> oh no that's okay, I expected most people would be at work or something.
[12:49] <UpuWork> yeah those crazy at work people who would think it
[12:49] <LBCran> Its my first time here, working on my University's HAB project
[12:50] <LBCran> lol yeah
[12:50] <UpuWork> oh ok hi, which university / which country ?
[12:50] <LBCran> this is just a society thing this
[12:50] <LBCran> Cranfield University UK
[12:50] <LBCran> There are 3 different thesis reports relating to this balloon and in classic style not one is specific enough to set this thing up lol
[12:51] <LBCran> I think what they actually did was set up to track Icarus in the past
[12:51] <UpuWork> interesting location right next to an airport
[12:51] <UpuWork> yeah Rob Harrisons payload
[12:51] <LBCran> yeah its basicaly on the campus.
[12:52] <UpuWork> well shoot I'll answer your questions as best I can
[12:52] <LBCran> Currently listening to FL-Digi spitting out noises at me and printing gobbldy gook on screen
[12:52] <LBCran> Any experience with Yarsu FT-817 or NTX2-434 series?
[12:52] <UpuWork> yep I'd say I have a little experience in that
[12:53] <daveake> :)
[12:53] <LBCran> great to hear
[12:53] <UpuWork> which one is it ? 434.075 or 434.650 ?
[12:53] <LBCran> because today is my first day trying to get this thing working lol
[12:53] <LBCran> 650
[12:53] <UpuWork> so let me get this right
[12:53] <UpuWork> you have a tracker already built by someone else or your playing with an NTX2 ?
[12:54] <LBCran> yeah someone else built the balloon main payload, another guy set up the ground station
[12:54] <LBCran> apparently its all been tested before but no one thought to write down all the settings to do so...
[12:54] <LBCran> the transmission is ran by this code set for 8 bit http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=125
[12:54] <UpuWork> yeah good website that
[12:54] <daveake> lol
[12:54] <LBCran> but FLdigi isn't behaving, so I think I may have the radio set up wrong.
[12:55] <UpuWork> ok
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[12:55] <UpuWork> so have you put the hi lo code on the tracker ?
[12:55] <LBCran> ang on, which part is that?
[12:55] <UpuWork> as covered in part 1
[12:56] <LBCran> ah right gotta check that
[12:56] <LBCran> You mean step 7?
[12:56] <UpuWork> No I wrote that article in 2 sections
[12:56] <UpuWork> 1 sec
[12:57] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=101
[12:57] <UpuWork> that one
[12:57] <UpuWork> that code just makes the radio do a high and a low tone which is good for testing the module is working, the shift is correct
[12:58] <LBCran> Ah right, so I'll have to upload new code into it.
[12:58] <UpuWork> 1 step at a time is a good way of testing these things
[12:58] <UpuWork> Does the payload have a name ?
[12:58] <LBCran> probably right there
[12:58] <LBCran> I'll see if I can find it in the documentation lol
[12:59] <UpuWork> obviously an NTX2 with an ATMEL ATMega
[12:59] <UpuWork> Lassen IQ GPS ?
[12:59] <LBCran> Trimble
[13:00] <LBCran> yeah same one
[13:01] <UpuWork> ok so fireup that code
[13:02] <UpuWork> and tune the FT-817 in to 434.647.500 mode USB
[13:02] <UpuWork> check you don't have an 'R' on the display as thats rear antenna needs to be on the front one
[13:03] <UpuWork> if you can't hear white noise before the payload is on you might have the squeltch up
[13:03] <eroomde> more cables made up (there are many tens) and pressure tests done
[13:03] <LBCran> So the best option you think is back to basics really
[13:04] <UpuWork> busy few days eroomde :)
[13:04] <eroomde> still more cables to go, then begins coding to fire up the fuel and oxidiser valves in the right proportion
[13:04] <eroomde> then hopefully we can make some noisy fire
[13:04] <UpuWork> absolutely LBCran if you have no documentation at all your basically reverse engineering it
[13:04] <UpuWork> this shouldn't be too hard though
[13:04] <LBCran> Only problem there I've got is I'll have to either risk losing the current code (as updating will be a pain) or to use my own spare arduino board at home
[13:04] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/69676024@N07/7431989820/in/photostream/
[13:04] <LBCran> I'll probably go option 2 here and just switch over the wiring
[13:05] <UpuWork> how are you programming the board ? Via a ICSP connector/programmer or USB ?
[13:05] <eroomde> previous noisy fire of the same engine on the test stand ^
[13:05] <LBCran> USB, its just an arduino
[13:05] <LBCran> The problem is the only copy i have of the original code is in a PDF document.
[13:05] <UpuWork> ah ok so the Trimble is likely to be on a software serial
[13:05] <UpuWork> can you send me the document ?
[13:05] <LBCran> its gonna be a pain to re-upload from that.
[13:05] <LBCran> I'm not sure if we can, but I can ask about it
[13:06] <fsphil> poor mr.strawbridge, he better not stand too close
[13:06] <UpuWork> ok will be in confidence if you wish to send it, just so I can ascertain what pins its using
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[13:07] <eroomde> if his tace were to be singed off, he'd loose his ability to present
[13:07] <eroomde> tache*
[13:07] <UpuWork> indeed
[13:08] <fsphil> it's the source of all his power
[13:08] <LBCran> ah right, well its pin 3 out to the radio
[13:08] <UpuWork> just one pin ?
[13:08] <cuddykid> unless the prediction changes a huge amount, no launch from me on sat/sun :(
[13:08] <Laurenceb> eroomde: what sort of injector do you use?
[13:08] <UpuWork> just amend the code to turn it high/low once a second
[13:08] <LBCran> yeah the enable on the transmitter is pulled high on the 5V line
[13:08] <UpuWork> so it should power on immediately
[13:08] <LBCran> yeah it works right away
[13:09] <UpuWork> then just pull the data line high/low every second / 0.5 second
[13:09] <LBCran> I can hear the transmission on the radio on any setting
[13:09] <fsphil> it'll change cuddykid
[13:09] <UpuWork> ok fine
[13:09] <LBCran> but FL-digi is not decoding it
[13:09] <fsphil> it almost always does until +2 days
[13:09] <UpuWork> ok hang fire
[13:09] <fsphil> even then it can still change wildly
[13:09] <eroomde> Laurenceb: unlike impingers
[13:09] <eroomde> 3 pairs
[13:09] <UpuWork> so load up the second bit of code
[13:09] <eroomde> Laurenceb: currenty on the lathe is a pintle one
[13:09] <UpuWork> the code assumes a 2 wire solution
[13:09] Action: Laurenceb looks up what that actually means
[13:09] <UpuWork> so just amend the code as follows
[13:09] <Laurenceb> ah
[13:09] <eroomde> which should let us get away with a shorter chambr
[13:10] <Laurenceb> yeah pintle looks simple to make
[13:10] <UpuWork> if (bit)
[13:10] <UpuWork> {
[13:10] <UpuWork> digitalWrite(RADIO_MARK_PIN, HIGH);
[13:10] <UpuWork> digitalWrite(RADIO_SPACE_PIN, LOW);
[13:10] <UpuWork> }
[13:10] <UpuWork> to :
[13:10] <eroomde> unlike impingers are 2 jets of different sizes (unlike) one fuel and one oxidiser, that squirt into each other
[13:10] <eroomde> Laurenceb: false
[13:10] <UpuWork> if (bit)
[13:10] <UpuWork> {
[13:10] <UpuWork> digitalWrite(RADIO_MARK_PIN, HIGH);
[13:10] <UpuWork> }
[13:10] <eroomde> it isn't simple to make
[13:10] <UpuWork> spam
[13:10] <eroomde> it's massively tight on tolerances at this scale
[13:10] <Laurenceb> compared to most injector designs
[13:10] <Laurenceb> ah
[13:10] <eroomde> impingers are much easer than a pintle
[13:11] <UpuWork> and vice versa for low LBCran
[13:11] <Laurenceb> yeah but impingers need pumbing
[13:11] <UpuWork> then load it up and tune the radio in
[13:11] <UpuWork> check you have 2 lines on the water fall
[13:11] <Laurenceb> e.g. look at the starchaser designs
[13:11] <Laurenceb> horrible to machine
[13:11] <Laurenceb> but yeah thats much larger scale
[13:13] <LBCran> Alright then, I guess I'll have to go get another board.
[13:13] <UpuWork> how come LBCran ?
[13:13] <LBCran> That or ask for the disc with the source code
[13:13] <UpuWork> nah you can make this work I'm sure
[13:14] <LBCran> if I upload to this board I risk losing the source code at the moment
[13:14] <UpuWork> ah ok so its transmitting but you can't decode ?
[13:14] <LBCran> yeah thats it
[13:14] <UpuWork> ok try this
[13:14] <UpuWork> press "RV" in dl-fldigi
[13:14] <UpuWork> its probably best if you do start from scratch so you understand whats going on
[13:15] <LBCran> I agree, but its just difficult to do with the circumstances.
[13:15] <UpuWork> RV work ?
[13:15] <LBCran> I've still yet to get a clear signal out of the receiver lol
[13:16] <UpuWork> can you link us a screen shot of what you're seeing ?
[13:16] <LBCran> is USB 434.650 what it should be?
[13:16] <UpuWork> no its going to be under or over that
[13:16] <LBCran> ahh
[13:16] <UpuWork> use the small knob on the left
[13:16] <UpuWork> not the big spinny one
[13:17] <UpuWork> most likely under
[13:19] <LBCran> getting something at 434.507
[13:19] <UpuWork> too low
[13:19] <LBCran> ah
[13:19] <UpuWork> 434.640 - 434.655 tops
[13:19] <UpuWork> it will stick out
[13:19] <UpuWork> as long as it transmits when its not got a GPS signal
[13:20] <UpuWork> I could advise better if I could see the code but I appreciate confidentiality
[13:20] <UpuWork> out of interest is the tracking secondary to the payload ? I.e is the project something under the balloon or is the project the balloon+tracking ?
[13:21] <LBCran> Yeah this does transmit with no GPS, its pretty much just a beep.
[13:21] <LBCran> also thanks for appreciating that, I've got to ask around a bit more really. I didn't expect the issues we're having here
[13:22] <UpuWork> what your looking for is 2 parallel lines on the water fall
[13:22] <UpuWork> FT-817 has a rubber antenna on the front ?
[13:23] <UpuWork> I'm actually genuinely interested to see what call sign this thing spurts out
[13:23] <LBCran> Should be $$Cran
[13:23] <LBCran> yeah its a front antenna
[13:24] <UpuWork> not on the flights list
[13:24] <LBCran> its not officially organised yet.
[13:24] <UpuWork> has this ever flown ?
[13:24] <LBCran> not yet. Insurance issues.
[13:24] <UpuWork> ah ok
[13:24] <LBCran> I know no one flies with it. But the University wouldn't have that lol
[13:24] <LBCran> this was meant to fly a year ago
[13:25] <UpuWork> ok stick the 817 on 434.647.500 USB and take a screen shot of what your seeing
[13:26] <LBCran> okay on its way, any prefered upload site?
[13:27] <UpuWork> imgur.com is fine
[13:28] <LBCran> this is what I've got http://i.imgur.com/7fmmU.png
[13:28] <LBCran> 434.647-50 USB
[13:28] <UpuWork> nothing there
[13:29] <LBCran> thats what I thought
[13:29] <daveake> There is - check bottom-right of the decode text box
[13:29] <daveake> Partial decode
[13:29] <daveake> sqrt(nbaff-all) signal strength though
[13:29] <daveake> -b
[13:29] <UpuWork> oh eyah
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[13:30] <UpuWork> turn the input up a little from the radio
[13:30] <LBCran> I'm not sure what part you guys mean there
[13:30] <UpuWork> $$cran,,,,,1600,1631,50
[13:30] <daveake> The large yellowish earea in the middle of the screen shot
[13:30] <daveake> The one containing garbled text
[13:30] <daveake> See the $$Cran bit near bottom-right
[13:30] <UpuWork> thats a decode its not random
[13:31] <daveake> And you screen should have lots of those
[13:31] <LBCran> I think that was on max actualy
[13:31] <UpuWork> how is the PC connected to the FT-817 ?
[13:31] <LBCran> mic input
[13:31] <UpuWork> windows ?
[13:31] <LBCran> yeah
[13:31] <UpuWork> right click the speaker -> recording devices
[13:32] <UpuWork> on the active device (microphone)
[13:32] <UpuWork> should be somewhere in there to boost the input +20dB
[13:33] <UpuWork> Go run www.join.me and share your screen so we can see whats going on :)
[13:33] <LBCran> I've boosted it what I can
[13:33] <LBCran> I've seen +20db thing before on 7 and Vista machines
[13:33] <LBCran> doesnt appear to be on XP?
[13:33] <UpuWork> possibly
[13:33] <UpuWork> turn the volume up slightly on the radio ?
[13:34] <LBCran> oh god the sound coming in is terrible
[13:34] <UpuWork> lol
[13:34] <LBCran> I'm sure this is more static than anything else
[13:34] <LBCran> waterfall is basically blank
[13:34] <UpuWork> would you be willing to share your screen so we can see whats going on ?
[13:34] <LBCran> not sure, this machine has other uses as well.
[13:34] <UpuWork> we have no control and you can kill it at any time
[13:34] <LBCran> I'll bring my computer next time.
[13:34] <UpuWork> ok
[13:35] <LBCran> I know I've ended up in an unhelpful place here lol
[13:35] <LBCran> err not as in this forum i mean this computer
[13:35] <LBCran> and scenario
[13:35] <UpuWork> lol
[13:35] <UpuWork> ok what turn the volume up on the radio so the waterfall just starts to go yellow
[13:36] <LBCran> thats what I mean, its maxed.
[13:36] <UpuWork> no don't max it :)
[13:36] <LBCran> ah lol
[13:36] <UpuWork> ok using the small knob on the left of the FT-817 jump up a notch in frequency
[13:36] <UpuWork> and send us a screen shot
[13:37] <LBCran> yeah from top to bottom, no signal
[13:37] <LBCran> 645
[13:37] <LBCran> 645 is good
[13:37] <LBCran> i have two bands
[13:37] <UpuWork> sounds promising
[13:37] <UpuWork> screen shot ?
[13:38] <LBCran> http://i.imgur.com/opGOX.png
[13:38] <UpuWork> interesting
[13:38] <UpuWork> ok thats wide
[13:38] <UpuWork> op mode -> RTTY -< Custom
[13:38] <UpuWork> if thats it
[13:38] <UpuWork> change shift to about 900
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[13:39] <UpuWork> doesn't look right
[13:39] <UpuWork> but lets see
[13:39] <LBCran> yeah 900 is on the money. good eyes
[13:39] <UpuWork> (there is a scale on the top) :)
[13:39] <LBCran> receiving a lot of semicolons here
[13:39] <LBCran> ah yeah
[13:39] <UpuWork> press RV
[13:40] <UpuWork> and unpress SQL
[13:40] <UpuWork> "unpress" :)
[13:40] <LBCran> NUMBERS
[13:40] <LBCran> GOD DAMN
[13:40] <UpuWork> houston we have contact
[13:40] <LBCran> thanks man
[13:40] <UpuWork> epic shift
[13:40] <daveake> woohoo
[13:40] <LBCran> genius its running!
[13:40] <UpuWork> so its wired backwards
[13:40] <UpuWork> with a very high shift :)
[13:41] <UpuWork> I'd be doing some further testing before flying this one
[13:41] <LBCran> http://i.imgur.com/ixvac.png
[13:41] <UpuWork> yeah thats looking good
[13:41] <LBCran> I'm sure I know why its got such a high shift looking at the manual
[13:41] <UpuWork> waterfall isn't right
[13:42] <UpuWork> but its working
[13:42] <UpuWork> well shift is the difference in voltages between toggling the line high and low
[13:42] <UpuWork> so the resistors chosen give a large voltage difference
[13:42] <LBCran> wait what, I picked up the transmitter and everything shifted pretty strong lol
[13:42] <LBCran> yeah thats the thing, I dont think there is a resistor there
[13:42] <LBCran> so its making a shift by 5V instead of the 3V max
[13:43] <UpuWork> there must be something your toggling the voltage by about 0.45v
[13:43] <UpuWork> and it should be about half that
[13:43] <UpuWork> put a meter on it
[13:43] <LBCran> let me just check the schematic then i'll do that
[13:43] <LBCran> not sure exactly which pin i'm checking
[13:43] <UpuWork> metal part of the NTX=GND
[13:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "[UKHAS] Pressure required to inflate latex balloon?"
[13:44] <UpuWork> and its then pin 7
[13:45] <UpuWork> which as you are looking at the sticker of the NTX2 is the one on the furthest right
[13:45] <UpuWork> but you'll probably need a scope to get an accurate result the multimeter won't respond quick enough
[13:45] <UpuWork> radio is on USB isn't it and not LSB ?
[13:45] <LBCran> yeah its on USB
[13:46] <UpuWork> ok
[13:46] <LBCran> oh dear
[13:46] <LBCran> everything just packed in
[13:46] <UpuWork> did you touch it ?
[13:46] <LBCran> loose pin
[13:46] <UpuWork> I would probably redo the code, its not transmitting a sentence number
[13:46] <LBCran> I'm gonna rework the wiring at some point on this thing before launch, thats probably part of the reason we've had so much trouble
[13:47] <LBCran> the guy who wired this thought duct tape is appropaite
[13:47] <UpuWork> not sure what the 3 values are at the end, last one is probaly voltage
[13:47] <UpuWork> lol
[13:47] <UpuWork> well you don't want anything loose full stop
[13:47] <LBCran> absolutely not
[13:47] <UpuWork> it can get quite hairy up there
[13:47] <LBCran> probably drop a wire when the parachute goes off
[13:47] <LBCran> no idea where it goes then lol
[13:48] <UpuWork> so back to my original question is the the balloon the primary goal of the project or secondary to getting something else up there ?
[13:48] <LBCran> at most I think I may have to modify the code as there does not appear to be a cut off yet in the program
[13:49] <LBCran> I'll brb guys just going the loo for a bit.
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[14:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 5 july Ariane5 will launch MSG-3. Looks like it will carry a SAR transponder as well
[14:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ups, wrong window, sorry
[14:07] <fsphil> still interesting
[14:07] <fsphil> you gonig to try receiving it?
[14:07] <fsphil> n<>i
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[14:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil was for hearsat channel, i have to remeber to watch the screen while typing :-)
[14:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil if its in my view, yes. MSG-1/2 ive monitored a few times before
[14:08] <fsphil> what sort of data do you receive?
[14:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> the sar beacons and unintential relays. The transponder is wider than the SAR beacon range, so some landstations get over it too
[14:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> an example here from the MSG-2 downlink, some US stations chatter http://digitalinfo.dk/diverse/1544565.wav
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[14:13] <fsphil> hah
[14:13] <fsphil> office chatter being relayed by launching rocket
[14:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no not a rocket, MSG-2 is a GEO satellite
[14:15] <fsphil> aaah
[14:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its part of the WW SAR beacon network. But the RX transponder is wider than the beacon area, so some other stuff gets over it as well at times
[14:15] <fsphil> I thought it was a relay on the launcher itself
[14:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> The beacons transmit on 406MHz, but the satellite transponder is abit wider than that, so stuff close to 406MHz can be relayed as well
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[14:20] <LBCran> Odd, i just restarted the system and found that it locked with reverse mode off
[14:20] <LBCran> but last time it worked with reverse mode on
[14:21] <fsphil> did you change the mode on the radio?
[14:21] <fsphil> LSB+RV is equivilent to USB without RV
[14:23] <LBCran> both occasions it was on USB
[14:27] <fsphil> werry odd
[14:27] <fsphil> fldigi might have thought otherwise
[14:27] <fsphil> it has it's own mode setting
[14:27] <fsphil> which can be different from the radios if they're not connected
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[14:32] <LBCran> probably the case. The radio is only connected by audio out
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[14:34] Nick change: UpuWork- -> UpuWork
[14:36] <LBCran> just wondering, how do i get the signal through the speakers again?
[14:36] <LBCran> I had that working on this computer, now using a different one.
[14:36] <LBCran> set up was very quick this time, but no audio out
[14:37] <LBCran> oh wait no i do have it
[14:37] <LBCran> very very quiet though
[14:38] <daveake> Are you sure you're tuning in to the real signal and not one of these shadow ones you can get when the transmitter is close?
[14:38] <UpuWork> on the FT-817 there is a small switch on the side by the headphone socket whats it set too ?
[14:38] <LBCran> SP
[14:39] <UpuWork> Speaker
[14:39] <LBCran> so tried other settihng
[14:39] <LBCran> *setting
[14:39] <LBCran> doesnt appear much different
[14:40] <LBCran> its all working though, i just find hearing the signal coming through comforting lol
[14:40] <UpuWork> if you switch it things will blow up
[14:40] <UpuWork> oh too late
[14:41] <UpuWork> j/k
[14:41] <LBCran> oshi
[14:41] <LBCran> :v
[14:41] <UpuWork> PH is the lower level one
[14:41] <LBCran> thought it sounded a tad quieter
[14:41] <UpuWork> volume is controlled by the AF knob on the front
[14:42] <UpuWork> probably a sound card thing
[14:42] <LBCran> reducing it has improved S/N but now i cant hear it at all lol
[14:43] <LBCran> actually even at min volume this thing is working. I think my laptop is better suited than the first computer
[14:44] <UpuWork> here is a question
[14:44] <UpuWork> have you got the right input selected in dl-fldigi ?
[14:44] <LBCran> Audio?
[14:44] <UpuWork> like its not listing on the on board microphone to noise coming from the speaker ?
[14:45] <UpuWork> as opposed to the microphone jack directly
[14:45] <LBCran> only options i get on the laptop are yamaha native or microsoft sound mapper
[14:45] <LBCran> in both input and output
[14:46] <UpuWork> bit hard for me to advise
[14:46] <UpuWork> I'm happy to do a remote support session with you if you wish but up to you
[14:46] <LBCran> dont worry about it, I'll probably use a different laptop altogether than this one in the final
[14:47] <UpuWork> ok
[14:47] <LBCran> yeah can do this in future. I'll just have to be sure to have the right computer at that time
[14:47] <LBCran> Soon as a friend of mine gets out of his meeting going to test this outdoors now
[14:48] <LBCran> check it gets a 100m or more of range, since thats what these are supposed to do on the ground isnt it?
[14:48] <LBCran> I'm a little concerned about the transmitters antenna though. its a piece of wire about 7 or 8 inches long or so
[14:49] <LBCran> looks a tad small for the range.
[14:49] <UpuWork> :)
[14:49] <UpuWork> the antenna should be about 164mm long on the radials
[14:49] <UpuWork> thats the correct dimensions for a 434Mhz 1/4 wave
[14:49] <LBCran> oh so thats about right then
[14:49] <UpuWork> and can be recieved >700km away when in the air
[14:49] <LBCran> wow
[14:50] <LBCran> so does it matter if this thing is inside or outside the box?
[14:50] <UpuWork> antenna should be outside
[14:50] <UpuWork> rest of it should be inside
[14:50] <LBCran> its 1 inch thick polystyrene and 1 inch thick foam, so 2 inch thick box here
[14:50] <LBCran> ah
[14:50] <LBCran> yeah thats what worried me
[14:50] <LBCran> how to get a wire that short to the outside
[14:50] <UpuWork> longer feed
[14:51] <UpuWork> coax from the radio to the antenna outside
[14:51] <LBCran> ahh
[14:51] <LBCran> so its got to be a special wire up to the antenna wire.
[14:53] <LBCran> my assistant is here now so gonna check out how it behaves. Thanks so far!
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[15:11] <cuddykid> someone pinged me? silly colloquy won't allow me to see it as it's too far back lol
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> (02:09:07 PM) fsphil: it'll change cuddykid
[15:12] <cuddykid> ahh :)
[15:12] <cuddykid> hopefully!
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> (02:08:32 PM) cuddykid: unless the prediction changes a huge amount, no launch from me on sat/sun :(
[15:12] <cuddykid> thanks SpeedEvil :)
[15:13] <fsphil> nice summary
[15:13] <fsphil> I've seen the prediction change completely within 24 hours before launch
[15:13] <fsphil> but that doesn't happen too often
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[15:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Pressure required to inflate latex balloon?"
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[15:25] <LBCran> Heading home now guys, Thanks for your help
[15:28] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] Pressure required to inflate latex balloon?"
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[17:10] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[17:12] <nigelvh> Howdy
[17:13] <Lunar_LanderU> how are you?
[17:14] <nigelvh> Doing well. Just working. Saw pixar's new film Brave over the weekend, it was pretty good.
[17:14] <Lunar_LanderU> cool!
[17:14] <Lunar_LanderU> I am good too, working on my stripboard board for the balloon
[17:15] <nigelvh> Fancy pants. I'm working on spinning up new servers at our Colo.
[17:15] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[17:16] <Lunar_LanderU> only problem I have to think about is that the resistors take up quite much space
[17:16] <Lunar_LanderU> like four rows for one resistor to fit properly
[17:17] <nigelvh> You can put them upright, then it only uses two.
[17:17] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[17:17] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[17:17] <nigelvh> You're welcome.
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[17:32] <eroomde> done more cables
[17:32] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[17:32] <Lunar_LanderU> DEMUX!
[17:32] <Lunar_LanderU> :D
[17:32] <eroomde> for the pressure sensors to the adc board
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[17:36] <nigelvh> woo
[17:36] <eroomde> theadc board looks ready for a gay pride march
[17:37] <nigelvh> That's the best kind of adc board.
[17:37] <eroomde> hang on crappy camera phone photo forthcoming
[17:37] <eroomde> there are really a shed load of cables on this rocket
[17:37] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/4vVBw.jpg
[17:38] <nigelvh> oooohhhh aaaaaaah
[17:38] <eroomde> and the homemade linear actuators got some nice cables yesterday http://www.flickr.com/photos/69676024@N07/7432603668/in/photostream
[17:39] <nigelvh> Fancy. What are they for?
[17:39] <eroomde> for moving the rocket engine
[17:39] <nigelvh> You're doing thrust vectoring?
[17:39] <eroomde> we're building a lunar hopper style hovering rocket
[17:39] <eroomde> yeah
[17:39] <nigelvh> Fancy as balls man.
[17:39] <eroomde> here's the engine on test: http://www.flickr.com/photos/69676024@N07/7431989820/in/photostream
[17:39] <eroomde> it can throttle 5:1 of which we were very surprised and a bit chuffed - certainly better than we had designed :)
[17:40] <eroomde> so can take no credit for it at it obviously means our sums were a bit out
[17:41] <eroomde> nigelvh: the control boards (just h-bridge with pot feedback) for the linear actuators: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/7109956683/in/photostream
[17:41] <nigelvh> But out in a good way.
[17:41] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later people :)
[17:41] <nigelvh> Pretty
[17:42] <nigelvh> Gonna heatsink them, or they good?
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[17:42] <eroomde> they'll be fine for this app
[17:42] <eroomde> they're rated to like 30A continuous
[17:42] <nigelvh> heatsinked
[17:42] <eroomde> and we're only pulling about 5A max
[17:42] <fsphil> shiny board
[17:42] <nigelvh> Makes sense
[17:42] <eroomde> and only when they have to do some crazy control manourvre which they hopefully wont if our control law is any good
[17:43] <eroomde> but we are planning something more serious for v2
[17:43] <nigelvh> Sounds reasonable
[17:43] <eroomde> had so much fun making these linear actuators that we want to go mad for v2, with really power-dense brushless motors and sort of 100hz sinusoid response and stuff. that will need some man mosfets
[17:43] <eroomde> but, baby steps
[17:44] <eroomde> also more carbon fibre on the v2
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[17:45] <nigelvh> Carbon fiber is good. Unless you're trying to get RF through it...
[17:48] <eroomde> it would onyl be replacing ali
[17:48] <eroomde> but yeah, i want to get my head around conformal patch antennas
[17:48] <eroomde> have done enough rocket projects recently where antenna were a sticking point
[17:49] <eroomde> so i figure some kind of conformal patch made on that flexipcb stuff, put into the carbon fibre mobold between the pre-preg and the mould
[17:49] <eroomde> so it would be set in completely flush
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[17:50] <eroomde> but the papers on designing such antennas seem like a lot of hard.
[17:51] <eroomde> would definitely need to set asside a few days
[17:52] <nigelvh> I wouldn't think that would work well
[17:52] <eroomde> wynot?
[17:53] <nigelvh> I did testing with a coaxial dipole and inside a carbon fiber tube the signal gets attenuated some (dependant on frequency), but when placed right next to the wall of or on the tube, it severely detuned the antenna.
[17:54] <nigelvh> Most of the time we just move the antenna to the nosecone or a fiberglass section if we can, otherwise, we've been known just to up the power and ignore the detuning.
[17:55] <eroomde> ah right, so CF is much worse than pure metal then
[17:56] <eroomde> interesting
[17:56] <nigelvh> Well, in either case you're going to get attenuation and detuning, I'm not sure I would call it worse than having the antenna inside a real metal tube though.
[17:56] <nigelvh> You can still get signal out of a CF tube, but it is attenuated.
[17:57] <Upu> anyone online who knows what a nominal figure from an RFM22B is for RSSI Floor ?
[17:57] <Upu> I.e what is normal ?
[17:57] <nigelvh> Wouldn't that depend on your environment?
[17:58] <eroomde> fo sho bro co
[17:58] <Upu> well yes but I'm after a "nominal" i.e if I get 2million back I suspect thats not normal
[17:58] <eroomde> but Darkside did some empircal gatheration
[17:58] <Upu> but say I got -101 back is that "normal"
[17:58] <Upu> yes but its 3am in Darkside land
[17:58] <nigelvh> That sounds in a plausible range to me.
[17:58] <Upu> ok I'm doing some tests for said Mr Darkside
[17:58] <nigelvh> (disclaimer: I haven't used an RFM22B)
[17:59] <Upu> to see the difference in RSSI floor between linear reg and boost reg
[17:59] <nigelvh> Do you have an antenna connected?
[17:59] <Upu> no
[17:59] <nigelvh> Yeah, then -101 is pretty plausible
[17:59] <Upu> yeah antenna might help
[17:59] <nigelvh> I would expect it to be higher (less negative) if there were an antenna connected.
[18:00] <nigelvh> But you don't care about what signals you pick up externally, you just care about supply noise, so I'd leave the antenna off.
[18:00] <Upu> -99 with a bit of wire stuck in the hole
[18:01] <eroomde> oh god the chinese takeawy is closed on mondays
[18:01] <eroomde> this allnighter is massively under threat
[18:01] <Upu> heh what will you do
[18:01] <Upu> off cooking thx nigelvh
[18:01] <nigelvh> yep
[18:01] <eroomde> curry i guess
[18:01] <nigelvh> You could come to america and then it could be an "all day'er"
[18:02] <eroomde> i've just done one of those
[18:02] <nigelvh> You could do two in a row.
[18:02] <eroomde> we have a tc crew arriving tomorrow for film a bolt-down test
[18:02] <nigelvh> Fancy
[18:02] <eroomde> so on the vertical test stand, the vecotring just doing a wiggle, and throttling up and down a bit
[18:02] <eroomde> BUT the thing has never been put together before
[18:02] <nigelvh> Good planning on the TV crew bit then.
[18:02] <eroomde> we are making cables, doing sensor calibration, doing leak checks, all right now
[18:03] <nigelvh> Sounds ideal.
[18:03] <eroomde> heh, silly deadline force you to do stuff :)
[18:03] <nigelvh> Bah, who needs those things.
[18:03] <eroomde> this is a completely after-hours project so it tends to get a bit neglected sometimes without some external impetus
[18:03] <eroomde> especially at the moment with so much skylon crunch
[18:03] <nigelvh> Like a tv crew
[18:09] <eroomde> exactly
[18:09] <eroomde> curry it is
[18:15] <eroomde> yay hydrogen peroxide spill
[18:15] <nigelvh> Aren't those the best?
[18:15] <daveake> That's some curry
[18:15] <eroomde> the curry won't be ready just yet
[18:15] <eroomde> they are
[18:15] <eroomde> there was some pressure trapped between a ball valve and a non-return valve
[18:16] <BrainDamage> eroomde: what concentration?
[18:16] <eroomde> blew some peroxide out of the pressure-vessel we're trting to make oxidiser-safe (hence the peroxide)
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Peroxide curry?
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> Radical.
[18:16] <eroomde> BrainDamage: low concentration - i was distracted by something else
[18:17] <eroomde> as for the peroxide, it's 40%
[18:17] <daveake> :)
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I see that jokes been done.
[18:17] Action: SpeedEvil should read to the end of backscroll.
[18:18] <eroomde> BrainDamage: we on't really have any high concentration around as we don't use it for anything in the actual rockets
[18:18] <eroomde> just for cleaning out oxidiser lines and so on
[18:19] <eroomde> though we are getting a machine that'll make 60% which will decompose usefully with a permanganate catalyst
[18:19] Action: SpeedEvil wishes that the company selling HTP hadn't gone belly-up.
[18:19] <BrainDamage> no fancy silver powder?
[18:20] <eroomde> no
[18:22] <eroomde> as i say, we don't really use it as a rocket fuel
[18:22] <eroomde> just for zapping any oxidisable contaminants in our plumbing
[18:23] <BrainDamage> borrow a ClF3 tank from your friedly semiconductor company
[18:23] <BrainDamage> atlough no plumbings might remain afterwards :p
[18:24] Action: SpeedEvil is mindboggled at the continuing RBS/natwest screwup
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[19:18] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32f0discovery/eval-board-cortex-m0-stm32f0/dp/2096251
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> crazy cheap
[19:19] <eroomde> what's cool about cortex m0?
[19:19] <BrainDamage> the cost
[19:19] <cuddykid> you'd have thought there would be some sort of "roll back" to a safe state with RBS/Natwest SpeedEvil :P
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: the inbuit stlink v2
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> who case about the rest, hacksaw it off
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Indeed.
[19:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] Pressure required to inflate latex balloon?"
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[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:36] <Laurenceb_> so apparently there is a use for RPi
[19:36] <Laurenceb_> it is very good at driving an stlinkv2
[19:38] <Laurenceb_> put one in a box and you have a ethernet jtag adaptor
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[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi cuddykid
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[20:39] <cuddykid> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[20:40] <MrScienceMan> -r[-|0]
[20:40] <MrScienceMan> Recurse subdirectories (CAUTION: this flag does not do what you
[20:40] <MrScienceMan> think, avoid using it)
[20:40] <MrScienceMan> this is confusing
[20:40] <fsphil> lol
[20:40] <fsphil> more things should come with that kind of warning
[20:41] <fsphil> CAUTION: This trifle will not taste as good as it looks
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[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/ardusat-will-be-tested-in-the-stratosphere-by-team-prometheus
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> lul
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> "Moderator" ?! please tell me he doesnt moderate that site
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> he needs to be locked in a padded cell
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> why
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[20:45] <Laurenceb_> cuz hes a lunatic
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> you can tell from just the phycomoustache
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> and what about the text?
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> that and the fact he claims his rocket project is going to get into orbit
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> Comment by Monroe yesterday If you read more on the Kickstarter
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> ^also that
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> do I need to be scared?
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> hes safely over in texas with the other crazies
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:55] <nigelvh> Though, the ardusat project is a neat idea. Giving people access to simple hardware in space (with proper vetting and redundancy of course).
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[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, worked on my flight board again today
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> have to try out my NTX2 resistors on the breadboard first however tomorrow
[21:11] <nigelvh> Yeah?
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea because it is a 3.3V system
[21:14] <eroomde> good evening and welcome to ed's top 10 countdown of Things That Are More Fun Than Putting Connectors onto 36AWG wire
[21:14] <eroomde> in at number 10: Rape
[21:14] <Randomskk> keep it classy
[21:14] <eroomde> up 1 from last week, finger nails being removed with pliers
[21:14] <Randomskk> anyway don't you have £££ crimpers?
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhh
[21:15] <eroomde> this is 36awg wire
[21:15] <eroomde> it's like thinner than human eyes can resolve
[21:15] <eroomde> it has about 3 strands of nano-tube thick wire in it
[21:15] <eroomde> it's unstripable
[21:15] <Randomskk> enamel and chemical stripping then?
[21:16] <Randomskk> or just a wire stripper and a fun time?
[21:16] <eroomde> it's also PTFE insulation so you can't just melt it with an iron
[21:16] <eroomde> no any wire stripper is hopeless
[21:16] <eroomde> microscope and scalpel
[21:16] <Randomskk> that sounds somewhat arduous
[21:16] <eroomde> ptfe so chemical stripping also out
[21:16] <Randomskk> idc?
[21:17] <eroomde> idc?
[21:17] <Randomskk> too thin I guess
[21:17] <Randomskk> insulation displacement
[21:17] <Randomskk> like what ribbon cables have.
[21:17] <eroomde> oh way too thin
[21:17] <eroomde> seriously
[21:17] <eroomde> it's thin
[21:17] <Randomskk> you may have mentioned :P
[21:17] <Randomskk> what connectors is it going on?
[21:17] <eroomde> D
[21:18] <eroomde> 3 x bridge pressure transducers to a single d
[21:18] <Randomskk> well that sounds like an enjoyable experience
[21:18] <eroomde> they're the 2 injector pressures and the chambre pressure
[21:18] <Randomskk> maybe next time buy wiring hanesses pre-terminated :P
[21:18] <eroomde> yes it is
[21:18] <Randomskk> ah cool
[21:18] <eroomde> they came with some massivley shit connector
[21:18] <Randomskk> harnesses*
[21:18] <eroomde> plastic-housing rubbish
[21:18] <Randomskk> oh I see
[21:18] <eroomde> it had to go
[21:19] <eroomde> if it had come with a lemo, i'd have been happy
[21:19] <Randomskk> any reason for the particularly thin wire?
[21:19] <eroomde> also they hadn't terminated the screen to a pin
[21:19] <eroomde> which is also a bit of a poor show
[21:19] <eroomde> it's what comes with these kulite connectors
[21:19] <eroomde> which are really baby, massively expensive pressure transducers
[21:19] <eroomde> but teeny tiny
[21:19] <eroomde> 2000psi each these ones
[21:19] <Randomskk> nice
[21:19] <eroomde> we happened to find a box from some else's old project, that had 4 or 5 in
[21:20] <eroomde> so perfect for the rocket
[21:20] <eroomde> cos they're hugely out of budget
[21:20] <Randomskk> I dread to think :P
[21:20] <eroomde> Randomskk: so normal awg 24 wire like you find in the lab
[21:20] <eroomde> http://www.bakersfieldads.net/Algoso-/24-awg-teflon-wire-silver-plated-blue-350-feet-type-e-1.jpg
[21:20] <Randomskk> budgetting to get martlet-1 back to working two or three stages is fun enough
[21:20] <eroomde> that has 19 strands of awg36
[21:21] <Randomskk> and that's off the shelf
[21:21] <eroomde> and each of my wires itself is 36awg
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> i use modified cutters for 34AWG
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> with indented blades
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> then grip the wire with tweezers whilst tinning
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> however earlier today i dropped the iron on my hand doing this
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> so its not a very good technique
[21:22] <eroomde> es i dropped the iron too today
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> but not onto your hand?
[21:22] Action: Laurenceb_ has large 8cmx1cm blister
[21:22] <eroomde> anyway so for these connectors i spliced each of the 36awg to some 24awg and used the tinniest heatshrink to add some strength
[21:23] <eroomde> then heatshrank that entire splicey bundly and the screen-to-wire solder joint together
[21:23] <eroomde> it looks quite pretty now
[21:23] <eroomde> and you can easily crimp 24awg to D-connector pins
[21:24] <eroomde> so anyway now at 22.30 the day before test firing we have sort of finished making all the raw parts
[21:24] <eroomde> woo!
[21:24] <eroomde> so now we can start integrating
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> im using mogami ultraflex mic cable
[21:27] <eroomde> we just use spec55 or ptfe usually
[21:27] <eroomde> keeps it simple
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> where do you order from?
[21:28] Action: Laurenceb_ is using HHB group
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[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, still there?
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> http://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/Aerospace/3M_Helicopter_Tapes/
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> lol helicopter tape
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> coming soon: skylon tape
[21:39] <nigelvh> Lunar_Lander: Yep.
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[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:40] <nigelvh> yea?
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> did you ever have made a hot-wire cutdown?
[21:41] <nigelvh> Yes.
[21:41] <nigelvh> I did have made.
[21:42] <nigelvh> I assume you have a question about it?
[21:42] <fsphil> can you make toast with it?
[21:42] <nigelvh> Who told you about that!?!
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[21:43] <nigelvh> The magic space toast is a trade secret and patent pending!
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> what is the best way to mount the wire to the circuit board?
[21:43] <fsphil> can't be as good as my intergalactic toast
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> something like that https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8432 ?
[21:45] <nigelvh> Don't. Use some nichrome or something for the cutdown wire, you need only an inch or two. Then run normal wire to the board which you can use any connector you like. A screw terminal would work fine.
[21:45] <nigelvh> Don't make the nichrome any longer than a couple inches
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea, so a terminal like I just showed?
[21:46] <nigelvh> Sure, that would work fine.
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> thank you!
[21:47] <nigelvh> You're welcome.
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> oh and things controlled by a MOSFET usually have a diode between their power terminals
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> does the wire need one too?
[21:47] <nigelvh> For inductive loads.
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:47] <nigelvh> Like motors
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:48] <nigelvh> Your tiny bit of nichrome and a bit of wire feeding it is unlikely to be very inductive at all.
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> good :)
[21:49] <nigelvh> Some people say it's just best practice to put it on anything you run with a mosfet, I don't generally worry about it unless i'm powering a motor or the like.
[21:49] <nigelvh> motors, solenoids, coils, etc are all highly inductive.
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> true
[21:52] <nigelvh> That's why you should put diodes on relays. As an experiment I put an LED as the diode for a small relay, and was suprised that the inductance of the relay was enough to make the LED blink when power was removed from the relay.
[21:52] <nigelvh> It's a good visual example of why things can be hard on sensitive electronics (including mosfets).
[21:55] <nigelvh> Or even better, if you have an oscilloscope, you can look at the spike that comes back through when you turn it off.
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[21:56] <nigelvh> Anyway, enough of that. In summary, you should be fine.
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[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> thanks nigelvh
[22:08] <fsphil> induction .. when electricity gets weird
[22:09] <Randomskk> meh it's just normal circuit analysis but with more complex numbers and differential equations
[22:09] <fsphil> *head explodes*
[22:10] <Randomskk> V=IR works fine for resistors, swap R for complex Z and include I=C dV/dt and V=L dI/dt
[22:10] <Randomskk> for capacitors and inductors
[22:10] <Randomskk> and you're set
[22:12] <Randomskk> semiconductors are where it gets weird if anything :P
[22:13] <fsphil> more weird
[22:14] <Randomskk> and once you put ICs in the mix it gets incredibly complicated
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:15] <Randomskk> complex* really
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> I/V curve for an cortex M4 is a little complex
[22:16] <Randomskk> :P
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> but below -5V i discovered is predictable
[22:16] <Randomskk> and above 12 or so
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> usually resulting in a halving of the M4
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[22:17] <Laurenceb_> first they split the atom, not we've split the stm32f4
[22:17] <jcoxon> hehe, their is a chase car in angola
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> probably chasing rebels
[22:18] <fsphil> nice
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> hmm it looks legit
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> wonder who is launching there
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[22:21] <priyesh> they're running it on a galaxy tab
[22:21] <priyesh> i think it's likely someone stumbled upon the app on Google Play and is playing with it
[22:21] <priyesh> but you never know...
[22:22] <Randomskk> and now we know exactly where they are >.>
[22:23] <fsphil> send the clowns!
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[22:24] <Laurenceb_> dont you have to register to use the tracker?
[22:25] <priyesh> google play isn't showing me any Angolan users
[22:25] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: no. priyesh: any new users? like, very recently?
[22:26] <priyesh> the app gets ~1 install every 2 days
[22:26] <Randomskk> lol
[22:26] <priyesh> we're at 48 users
[22:26] <priyesh> so close to the big five-zero
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[22:28] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: stress releive where you attach the nichrome to the normal wire in your cudown
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[22:33] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: just rs or farnell
[22:33] <fsphil> also try to reduce your down stress :)
[22:33] <eroomde> they have almost everything
[22:34] <eroomde> the spec55 is standard (the nice end of standard) aerospace wire
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> not nice sheilded cable tho
[22:34] Action: Laurenceb_ looks
[22:34] <eroomde> double wall insulation, each layer being a different colour so you can see wear
[22:34] <eroomde> walls are thin, high temp so don't recede when you solder, and very chemical resistence
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[22:34] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: you can get spec55 shielded twisted
[22:35] <eroomde> we're also using that
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[22:35] <eroomde> you might not like the price tho compared to other shileded twisted
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> i cant find the shielded on rs or farnell
[22:36] <eroomde> yeah that might be more specialist
[22:37] <eroomde> maybe talk to raychem directly
[22:37] <eroomde> we had like a 200m reel of 24awg stuff left over from a project
[22:37] <eroomde> which will last a long time
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[22:37] <Laurenceb_> ok
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> ive been buying lots of mogami mic cable from HHB
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> oh TE connectivity
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> they took over toby.co.uk
[22:40] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
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[22:42] <eroomde> You know what's cooler than a _million_ dollars?
[22:42] <eroomde> the fact that i am still at work
[22:43] <Randomskk> does it count quite as much if you're working on your fun side project? :P
[22:43] <eroomde> yes
[22:44] <eroomde> because i'm not doing it for the fun of it right now
[22:44] <eroomde> i'm doing it for dick
[22:44] <Randomskk> heh
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[22:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=976LHTpnZkY&feature=player_embedded - worlds loudest water heater
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[23:19] <eroomde> i love the smell of primer in the morning
[23:19] <eroomde> it's the smell of being seriously last minute
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, what do you mean with stress relief
[23:23] <eroomde> those soft toys you squeeze with your hand
[23:23] <eroomde> no, i mean something to support the wire
[23:23] <eroomde> to stop it flexing at the point where it is soldered, because it will break off eventually if it does that
[23:23] <eroomde> so you need something to hold it steady and increase the radius when it bends
[23:24] <eroomde> these things are an example of stess releif
[23:24] <eroomde> http://gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=av:ngc_cable5.jpg
[23:25] <Randomskk> also known as strain relief
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, are those screw terminals good?
[23:27] <Randomskk> not for strain relief...
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> how can I then connect the nichrome to my veroboard
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[23:31] <eroomde> oh yeah strain rleif
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[23:32] <eroomde> stress relief must have been a fruedian slip
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[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> how can I then connect the nichrome to my veroboard
[23:32] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: you've already been told this by nigelvh, it pays to read carefuly
[23:32] <eroomde> he said, correctly, that you should not solder the nichrom directly to the board or connectors
[23:32] <eroomde> but instead to some wire which you then take back to your board
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea and he said the screw terminal works fine
[23:33] <eroomde> not for nichrome
[23:33] <eroomde> for the normal wire that you have soldered the nichrome to
[23:33] <eroomde> don't directly screw terminal onto nichrome, you'll just break it
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:34] <eroomde> it's a single solid core
[23:34] <eroomde> it can't take bends very well
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> someone at sparkfun said you can't really solder nichrome, why is that?
[23:34] <eroomde> you can i think
[23:35] <eroomde> though of course if it heats up....
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> It's got a _very_ tenacious oxide layer
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[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[23:37] <eroomde> when soldering nichrome to thicker wire, i strip a length of about 15cm off the thicker wire, then very carefully but tightly wrap the nichrome around the stripped length, maybe 8-10 turns
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[23:37] <eroomde> then apply lots of solder
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:37] <eroomde> then heatshrink over, with about 5mm heatshrink overhang to support the nichrome
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:38] <eroomde> 15mm not 15cm sorry
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea wanted to ask about that
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> I question if that's actualy a 'proper' solder joint
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> so you like do that for both wires and in the middle you wrap the nichrome around the line to be burned?
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> but it may be good enough
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> At least for a few activations
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:43] <eroomde> if it's in tension it should be stronger than a solder joint
[23:43] <eroomde> if the wrapping is in tension*
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[23:43] <eroomde> wire wrapping tends to have much higher contact pressures than soldering
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[23:45] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: contact pressures for wirewrap depends on square pins.
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[23:47] <eroomde> sure but the pressure is still high whatever the shape
[23:47] <eroomde> nichrome is hard, it deforms the copper wire quite nicely
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:48] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: on irc it's not like real life, you don't have to reply to every single comment
[23:48] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: in general, this guide is good on how to attach wire to wire http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/407%20Splices.html
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Tue Jun 26 2012