highaltitude.log.20120623

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[00:06] <jkster> howdy... looking for advice from those with experience with hydrogen as a lifting gas
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> I think most are asleep here
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> I know I am.
[00:11] <Upu> evening jkster
[00:11] <jkster> howdy
[00:11] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen
[00:11] <Upu> if you've never launched before use Helium
[00:12] <Upu> just be careful with it and take sensible precautions
[00:12] <Upu> Just don't "clear the pipes" out and put a warning sign on the neck of the ballon in case it comes down still inflated which does happen
[00:13] <jkster> we've used helium a few times, but we have limited supply locations for our next launch
[00:13] <Upu> in the US ?
[00:13] <jkster> yep
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[00:14] <Upu> ok not sure what cylinders are like over there but we had to get a proper regulator from BoC
[00:14] <Upu> have a chat with your local gas depot
[00:14] <Upu> you probably don't need a flash back arrestor as your not welding/using O2 under pressure with it
[00:14] <jkster> surely will, just want to get the most advice possible before trying something new and potentially hazardous
[00:14] <Upu> but thats not official advice
[00:15] <Upu> and as a curtisy you need to tell the land owner your launching from that your using H2
[00:15] <Upu> I know there was a number of posts on the GPSL Group about it which is more US Centric
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[00:15] <Upu> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsl/
[00:16] <jkster> awesome! thanks so much
[00:16] <Upu> have a look through the archives on that
[00:16] <Upu> no problems
[00:16] <Upu> be safe
[00:16] <Upu> Way past my bed time nn all
[00:19] <fsphil> ah, finally, internet
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[01:05] <hextic> Is there a link where I can read about how I am supposed to use these ground receivers to track balloons?
[01:05] <Dan-K2VOL> ukhas.org
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[01:06] <hextic> It's not loading.
[01:07] <Lunar_Lander> ukhas.org.uk
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[02:53] <RobotCaleb> http://hab.robotrising.org/post.html
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[06:14] <jcoxon> typical, forecast for groundwinds are back up
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[06:49] <jcoxon> morning RocketBoy
[06:51] <Upu> morning all
[06:53] <RocketBoy> hi folks
[06:54] <jcoxon> forecast winds have picked up
[06:54] <jcoxon> typical
[06:54] <RocketBoy> much?
[07:00] <jcoxon> 18km/h
[07:06] <RocketBoy> :-(
[07:07] <jcoxon> the problem is these storms/gales mean that everything is unpredictable
[07:08] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, i still think we should go ahead
[07:08] <jcoxon> i've got an idea of how to transport the balloon out of the barn to a position to launch
[07:09] <RocketBoy> the valve is a lot more capable of handling a rough launch
[07:09] <jcoxon> we just get a sheet and cover it, someone on ever side holding the corners with someone underneath
[07:09] <jcoxon> walk it out, gives us more stability to brace it against the wind
[07:09] <jcoxon> with a 5m/s ascent we'll be clear pretty quickly
[07:09] <RocketBoy> yeah - i'd thought of somthinh similar myself
[07:10] <RocketBoy> think I have a load of ripstop nylon somewhere
[07:17] <jcoxon> i look forward to when this changable weather goes
[07:17] <jcoxon> when the summer arrvies
[07:17] <RocketBoy> dont hold your breath
[07:18] <RocketBoy> what about a large plastic sheet - think we need to wrap it in a tube shape
[07:19] <RocketBoy> what does your part of the payload weigh?
[07:20] <jcoxon> 215
[07:21] <RocketBoy> ok I'll call it 500g overall
[07:22] <RocketBoy> launch circumference about 5.5m
[07:23] <RocketBoy> thats a big bit of plastic
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[07:25] <jcoxon> how about we just cover the top
[07:25] <jcoxon> to get a bit of control
[07:28] <RocketBoy> thinking it might blow out fromunderneith
[07:29] <RocketBoy> B&Q seem to go to about 5m x 4m
[07:31] <jcoxon> :-)
[07:31] <jcoxon> we'll get it in the air
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[07:35] <RocketBoy> sure
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[07:58] <upix> Hello, is there any particular reason when doing rtty with rfm22 when sending data set 1 and 0s by changing frequency registers, rather than to configure GPIO as manual data input and connect uC pin to that GPIO
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[08:03] <jcoxon> upix, because with manual data input you'll still be using the rfm22 inbuilt packet system
[08:03] <jcoxon> which is more complex then rtty
[08:03] <upix> no, not neceesary
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[08:04] <jcoxon> as in the setup of manual input or the packet/rtty?
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[08:08] <upix> You setup rfm22 for manual modulation and GPIO for input
[08:09] <upix> so when you set tx state with register, rfm just sends central frequency modulated with signal on GPIO
[08:09] <upix> which can be of any rate
[08:10] <upix> may you wish to do 5 or 30 or more or less you just change uC pin state accordingly
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[08:11] <jcoxon> upix, how does the gpio modulate that freq?
[08:11] <jcoxon> FSK?
[08:11] <upix> well it depends on how you set it
[08:12] <upix> may be FSK, may be GFSK
[08:12] <upix> but with GFSK you need sync signal
[08:12] <upix> or w/e
[08:13] <jcoxon> are you able to set the mark and space to generate RTTY this way?
[08:15] <upix> well yes
[08:15] <jcoxon> then sure - there is no reason not to take this approach
[08:16] <jcoxon> changing the registers over SPI works okay for 50 baud
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[08:16] <upix_> ah con lost
[08:16] <jcoxon> it was very easy to setup once you've got your SPI connected
[08:16] <upix_> did u say anything?
[08:16] <jcoxon> <jcoxon> then sure - there is no reason not to take this approach
[08:16] <jcoxon> <jcoxon> changing the registers over SPI works okay for 50 baud
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[08:20] <upix_> What I did is setup in register 71h modulation source 00 (direct modulation via GPIO) and modulation type 10 (FSK)
[08:20] <upix_> and configured GPIO2 as direct input
[08:21] <upix_> well and some other params
[08:21] <jcoxon> what were you decoding with?
[08:21] <upix_> like freq deviation
[08:23] <upix_> well atm I'm not decoding with anything, cuz I only got a old cable tv analyser as a receiver and it gives not a very decent output, but I recorded the output and could see all the transitions and freq changes
[08:24] <jcoxon> with teh freq deviation, whats the smallest it can be set to?
[08:25] <upix_> it has 62,5kHz channel hoping freq, and no configuration for freq deviation
[08:25] <upix_> or i didn't find it
[08:25] <upix_> I'll probably use SDR
[08:25] <jcoxon> cool
[08:25] <jcoxon> well keep us updated
[08:26] <jcoxon> the changing the registers is pretty easy
[08:26] <jcoxon> and is fine for 50baud (which is all i need)
[08:27] <upix_> well I had (have) this problem that when I turn TX on it starts to interfere with SPI communication (atm everything is setup on breadboard)
[08:27] <upix_> I'll make a decent pcb
[08:27] <upix_> so hopefully this will go away
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[08:28] <upix_> but for the moment I just remove antena
[08:28] <upix_> and it's ok while testing
[08:30] <jcoxon> :)
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[09:13] <cuddykid> long way off, but next Sat prediction looks awful :(
[09:19] <jcoxon> not worth looking now
[09:19] <jcoxon> give it a few more days
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[14:05] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/wLIZN.gif
[14:20] <kristianpaul> nasty
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[15:11] <eroomde> whats happening?
[15:11] Action: fsphil-laptop is eating a crisp sandwich
[15:12] <fsphil-laptop> and compiling gqrx on my eeepc, beside a beach :)
[15:12] <eroomde> i have just made a large batch of killer bbq sauce
[15:12] <fsphil-laptop> ooh nice
[15:12] <fsphil-laptop> you'll have to bring some to lndn
[15:13] <eroomde> the full works, fennel paprika cumin rosemary thyme coriander ornage peel chillis onions garlic ketchup balsamic mustard salt and pepper
[15:13] <eroomde> phew
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[15:13] <eroomde> the is now a shoulder of lamb marinating in it
[15:13] <eroomde> which i'll slow cook for 6hrs tomorrow and serve to some frineds coming up from london for lunch
[15:13] <eroomde> domesticity is a comfy pair of slippers
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[15:14] <fsphil-laptop> I should have brought some
[15:14] <eroomde> lamb shoulder is a fav of mine
[15:15] <eroomde> super cheap, amazing if you just give it 3+hrs gentle cooking to tender
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[15:21] <Upu> permission to om nom nom
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[15:24] <eroomde> kind of hoping for leftovers
[15:24] <eroomde> so i can get a couple of packed lunches out of it
[15:24] <daveake> We got some pulled pork for later
[15:24] <eroomde> ah nice :)
[15:24] <daveake> Ready made - just warm up - cos I'm lazy today
[15:24] <eroomde> yeah pulled pork is my other favourite for when i'm in the mood
[15:24] <eroomde> this lamb hits the same sort of spot
[15:25] <eroomde> smokey and tender and spicy and fatty/moist meat
[15:25] <eroomde> but perhaps a bit sweeter than the pork, which is just purest amazingest porkiness
[15:25] <eroomde> savoury, i mean
[15:26] <daveake> My pi tracker ran overnight OK. Next test isto shove it in the freezer to see how it copes
[15:26] <eroomde> my fear for it would be overheating in the thinner air
[15:26] <daveake> Though it uses so much juice it'll stay cosy anyway in a payload
[15:26] <daveake> yeah
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> underclock it
[15:27] <eroomde> though, i think jcoxon flew one of the omap gumstix's once?
[15:27] <eroomde> which seemed to cope, and is a similar architecture and power
[15:27] <daveake> The reg gets warm so I might clamp a heatsink to that
[15:27] <eroomde> yeah it's a linear one isn't it?
[15:28] <eroomde> madness!
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> heh
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> i was laughing at that
[15:28] <daveake> Assume so - it passes (or fails) the nose proximity test
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> 5v ->1.8v with a linear reg
[15:28] <eroomde> still, probably saved 50 cents
[15:29] <daveake> The 3V3 line is 50mA max, of which I'll be using ... well all of it
[15:29] <eroomde> 'saved 50 cents'
[15:29] <daveake> I might make a PSU for it
[15:29] <eroomde> tee hee i enjoyed rereading that
[15:35] <eroomde> daveake: http://hackaday.com/2012/06/23/checking-out-the-temperature-of-a-raspberry-pi/
[15:41] <daveake> Interesting, ta
[15:42] <daveake> I'll have a look to see if anything can be switched off. Ethernet for a start.
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[16:01] <hextic_> Kaymont is basically right next door for me to just go pick up balloons, they're right here on Long Island. But where do I find parachutes?
[16:03] <eroomde> local airforce base
[16:03] <eroomde> for some reason the guards don't like people wandering in but i mean if you just pick the right time of day you can wonder in and then for some reason they always seem to keep them under the seats in their aeropanes
[16:03] <eroomde> not sure why
[16:03] <eroomde> well, anyhow, you can borrow them from there
[16:04] <hextic_> :p
[16:04] <eroomde> OR, if feeling more boring, then most of the places that cater for High Power Model Rocketry have parachutes of the right size
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> The Pi USB interrupts reportedly use ~20% of CPU
[16:04] <eroomde> spherchutes seem to be quite popular
[16:06] <eroomde> you can get them from US rocketman too if you feel like supporting someone who is the nearest thing planet earth has to a live child, in looks and personality, to mousollini and jabba the hut
[16:06] <eroomde> love child*
[16:09] <eroomde> i'm not nomally like this, i just picked my nose having been preparing some powerful chillis for my bbq sauce and it's made me kind of emotional
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> Ow.
[16:12] <eroomde> i do feel rather ventilated though
[16:12] <eroomde> it's quite clearing
[16:12] <eroomde> like if you ever have some kind of gentle but nice cocktail like a manzanillo sherry and lime
[16:12] <eroomde> it's sort of like air conditioning
[16:13] <eroomde> i should do it more often
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[16:13] <Laurenceb_> lol wat
[16:13] <Laurenceb_> 20% cpu
[16:14] <eroomde> ?
[16:14] <Laurenceb_> raspberry pi
[16:14] <Laurenceb_> <SpeedEvil> The Pi USB interrupts reportedly use ~20% of CPU
[16:16] <eroomde> that's a lot of interrupts
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> If you do rrmod ohci_hcd or the functional equivalent
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> cat /proc/interrupts seperated by a second
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> ~1k/s
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> this with full speed usb running/
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> No
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> nothing plugged in even
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[16:18] <Laurenceb_> ok...
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[16:18] <Laurenceb_> somethign is a little wrong there
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Assuming it's not a hardware bug
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[16:39] <joph> who of you was at the HAM today or yesterday?
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[17:38] <eroomde> nosebleed has done the eopnymous on his modem
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[17:39] <eroomde> oh god there are completely huge amounts of rain coming for us daveake
[17:40] <daveake> nice
[17:40] <eroomde> the weather radar has stuff that is purple
[17:40] <eroomde> purple goddam
[17:41] <daveake> I'd better pull in my pole then
[17:41] <eroomde> .
[17:41] <daveake> (horizontal pole. out of the window. with pi on the end)
[17:42] <daveake> Otherwise I'll have a soggy pi and that's no use to anyone
[17:42] <eroomde> it's all about the crust
[17:42] <eroomde> so
[17:42] <eroomde> have you ever come across suet puff pastry before?
[17:42] <eroomde> this occured to me one day recently
[17:42] <eroomde> puff is great on pies
[17:42] <eroomde> so is suet pastry
[17:42] <eroomde> so why have i never seen the two combined into some kind of incalculable pastry greatness?
[17:43] <daveake> Sounds like a winning combination
[17:43] <eroomde> i will try it
[17:43] <eroomde> with steak and kidney
[17:43] <daveake> Patent it
[17:44] <daveake> Then if some company starts selling them ....
[17:44] <daveake> ... (drum roll) ....
[17:44] <daveake> sut it
[17:44] <daveake> sue it
[17:44] <eroomde> i will steal their kidneys
[17:44] <daveake> damn
[17:44] <eroomde> oh
[17:44] <eroomde> gosh
[17:44] <eroomde> i didn't see that one coming
[17:44] <daveake> :D
[17:44] <daveake> thought you might actually :)
[17:44] <benoxley> afternoon
[17:45] <eroomde> evening surely
[17:45] <eroomde> it's past why-have-i-not-had-a-drink-yet oclock
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[18:12] <Upu> Evening. I made a £5 colinear : http://imgur.com/a/1bqjM#0
[18:13] <Upu> see how it performs tomorrow
[18:13] <benoxley> eroomde: prevening
[18:13] <eroomde> i dowel it will work very well Upu
[18:14] <Upu> haha I see what you did there
[18:14] <eroomde> but you might be able to coax it into picking something up
[18:14] <eroomde> if you wave it in the air
[18:14] <Upu> Jimmy Carr watch your back
[18:15] <eroomde> my laugh isn't that silly
[18:15] <Upu> and your tax affairs ?
[18:15] <eroomde> i tried a few tax affait jokes but rejected them on grounds of staying aloof of celebrity current affairs
[18:15] <benoxley> anyone got any experience with tinygps? I can't get it to accept packets....
[18:16] <Upu> not I benoxley
[18:16] <eroomde> cut the packets down a bit
[18:16] <eroomde> it can't take normal size packets
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[18:16] <eroomde> anyone else?
[18:16] <nick_> yes?
[18:16] <nick_> no?
[18:16] <nick_> I don't know?
[18:16] <daveake> Sorry, don't use it
[18:16] <eroomde> go on ask a question or show off some work you've done or something
[18:16] <nick_> Can you repeat the question?
[18:17] <eroomde> nick_: what time is the meetingiboo tomorrow?
[18:18] <benoxley> i get the full GPGGA packets from the gps and GPRMC but tinygps doesn't seem to like them..
[18:19] <Upu> just parse the NMEA yourself ?
[18:19] <eroomde> the answer might be 'f off' but this might be one of those occassions when trying to use a library for something not so complicated (parsing nmea) is more trouble that it's worth
[18:20] <eroomde> what upu said
[18:20] <benoxley> think I'm going to, this is just more trouble than it's worth
[18:20] <Upu> just watch your floating point padding
[18:20] <jonsowman> if you're going to do it yourself then consider the binary protocol
[18:20] <jonsowman> it's so much easier to work with
[18:20] <Upu> yeah it is
[18:20] <benoxley> seeing as I was supposed to be launching this week, I was just trying to save some time but definately not worth it
[18:21] <jonsowman> lol i decided to be lazy and just link against the full version of vfprintf
[18:21] <jonsowman> then floats just work
[18:21] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
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[18:23] <eroomde> i have no idea of the existence of about 70% of the pages in the wiki
[18:23] <Upu> yeah one day someone will sit down and sort it out
[18:23] <eroomde> would be lovely
[18:23] <daveake> yup
[18:23] <Upu> alot of pages are entirely out of date
[18:24] <Upu> or unfinished
[18:24] <benoxley> ah, I'm an idiot
[18:24] <benoxley> I was polling the GPS for the UBLOX string rather than NMEA
[18:24] <benoxley> classic fail
[18:25] <eroomde> i think a lot of the pages i wrote were in the old site which only incompletely got transferred over to the new docuwiki
[18:25] <daveake> The list of possible fails is infinitely long
[18:26] <eroomde> for example throwing your payload out of an upper floor window just before launch
[18:26] <daveake> That's inventive
[18:27] <jonsowman> benoxley: working now?
[18:27] <eroomde> it's been done
[18:28] <benoxley> jonsowman: trying to find the poll code for nmea
[18:28] <jonsowman> okay
[18:39] <benoxley> I'm not sure you can poll a single nmea string from the ublox
[18:42] <benoxley> ah, got it!
[18:42] <benoxley> $EIGPQ,RMC*3A
[18:45] <eroomde> that's what they all say
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[18:49] <jonsowman> EIGPQ
[18:49] <jonsowman> what on earth
[18:50] <eroomde> [$sattelite_joke]
[18:52] <jonsowman> haha
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[18:55] <daveake> haha
[18:55] <daveake> Got an A490 on ebay for ....
[18:55] <daveake> ... £7.49
[18:55] <eroomde> p&p?
[18:56] <daveake> £5-30
[18:56] <daveake> Battery flap doesn't lock, and that probably put people off
[18:56] <eroomde> ah-so
[18:56] <daveake> Plus everyone's watching the footie
[18:56] <eroomde> i'm hoping to get a spectrum analyser by the same logic
[18:56] <eroomde> alas
[18:57] <daveake> A490s normally go for £25-£5 + postage
[18:57] <daveake> £35
[18:57] <daveake> I just wait for a bargain :)
[18:58] <eroomde> spares and repairs doesn't seem to be what it used to be
[18:58] <eroomde> which is sad
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[18:58] <daveake> yep
[18:59] <eroomde> 'lcd doesn't work' yay!
[18:59] <eroomde> likewise test equipment
[19:00] <daveake> Long time ago I bought a 'scope dead cheap. Knocked the guy down a lot (half what he wanted) because 1 of the 2 traces was near invisible, and who wants a single-channel scope?
[19:01] <daveake> He didn't know it really had 2 beams, using a beam splitter
[19:01] <daveake> Adjusted by moving a magnet
[19:01] <daveake> with a BIC pen cap
[19:02] <eroomde> :)
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[19:11] <gonzo_mob> specans don't usually go ag bargain prices on fleabay
[19:16] <eroomde> no ideed :)
[19:16] <eroomde> indeed
[19:16] <eroomde> nice to dream though
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[19:55] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki_Af_o9Q9s
[19:55] <Upu> I know what I'll be doing on August the 5th
[19:56] <Upu> 5:31am GMT
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[19:57] <fsphil-laptop> I'll get up early for that
[19:59] <Upu> If they stream it live would be amazing
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> there is a low frame rate camera that is suppose to record the descent
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> and landing
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> not live though
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> it'll be transmitted back *hopefully* after landing
[20:01] <Upu> yeah they don't want to show any martians by accident
[20:02] <Upu> quite incredible though really hope it works
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[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:08] <fsphil-laptop> yoyo
[20:09] <daveake> yello
[20:09] <jonsowman> evening
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> no eurus 2?
[20:11] <fsphil-laptop> ah, it's stopped raining
[20:12] <fsphil-laptop> tomorrow
[20:12] <fsphil-laptop> unless there's been a last minute change?
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[20:23] <gd-compton> sorry PC crashed
[20:23] <gd-compton> ah ok
[20:24] <Upu> wb ?
[20:26] <gd-compton> thanks
[20:26] <gd-compton> hi Upu
[20:26] <Upu> evening how's it going ?
[20:28] <gd-compton> wait
[20:28] <gd-compton> damn xchat
[20:28] Nick change: gd-compton -> Lunar_Lander
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> thanks good and you?
[20:28] <Upu> interesting nickname Lunar
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea that is the identifier
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:29] <Upu> very well sorry I didn't respond last night I was out playing poker
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah how was it?
[20:29] <Upu> I won :)
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> well done that
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, I was excited to read a comment on sparkfun
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9569
[20:45] <Upu> linky
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> see the most recent one
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9569#comment-4fbc26eb757b7f9e43000000
[20:46] <joph> Lunar_Lander, are you going to the HAM?
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> it's next weekend right?
[20:46] <joph> this weekend
[20:46] <joph> tomorrow is the last day
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> no can't make it
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> Osnabrueck and Lake Constance is quite a distance apart
[20:47] <joph> hijack a plane :P
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhhh
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> not a good idea I'd say
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, so the sensor works with the 3.3V arduino
[20:49] <Upu> good
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> I thought about the wiring too
[20:50] <Upu> daveake https://www.thecraag.com/index.php?title=Raspberry_Pi_HAB_Payload&action=edit
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> Mark and Space (on NTX2) is like having 1 or 0?
[20:51] <daveake> "* The timing of the RTTY string 'bits' will be crucial, a recent University Project using MS .NET Gadgeteer in the same application, struggled to achieve the correct timing, jeopardising their tracking by dl-fldigi ground stations."
[20:51] <daveake> Got that right :-)
[20:51] <Upu> yup :)
[20:52] <daveake> " A rtty-gpio program is currently under development (with a few show-stopping bugs)" ... yeah, sounds promising :p
[20:52] <Upu> thought you'd like that
[20:52] <daveake> The cheap approach works well :)
[20:53] <Upu> " have been informed by several keen and experienced HABers that this is highly inadvisable and extremely foolish,"
[20:53] <daveake> lol
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:54] <Upu> its M0DNY's site
[20:54] <daveake> As an only tracker, I'd agree
[20:54] <jonsowman> he is craag on here
[20:54] <daveake> Ah K
[20:54] <Upu> ping craag
[20:54] <daveake> I did see the page 2-3 weeks ago
[20:54] <Upu> you and daveake need to speak :)
[20:55] <daveake> I've got the program running from init.d so it autostarts now
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[20:55] <daveake> Just need a box and a shitload of batteries :D
[20:55] <Upu> just dangle one in front of a camera
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> Upu,
[20:55] <Upu> and have done with it
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> Mark and Space (on NTX2) is like having 1 or 0?
[20:55] <Upu> yes Lunar
[20:55] <Upu> yup
[20:56] <Upu> 1= mark , 0 = space
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:56] <jonsowman> daveake: what voltage does it want?
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> so I thought to make space a brown wire and mark a white one
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> as black is already occupied to be GND
[20:57] <daveake> The NTX2 of course knows nothing abouts marks or spaces or 1s or zeroes, just different voltages --> different frequencies
[20:57] <Upu> As long as its labelled it can be pink and purple lunar
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> and I thought that would be good to have different colours so the wires don't get mixed up
[20:57] <daveake> eh what?
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:57] <Upu> yeah in fairness
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[20:57] <Upu> its just voltage levels
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:57] <daveake> jonsowman 5V at oodles of amps
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> and for an SD, we have four wires for SPI?
[20:57] <daveake> Well 0.7 I think
[20:57] <Upu> link a DAC to a NTX2
[20:58] <daveake> I'll run it from a lab PSU tomorrow and see
[20:58] <jonsowman> daveake: lithium thionyl chloride batts might be better for it
[20:58] <daveake> Yeah I need to look at how best to power it.
[20:59] <daveake> Maybe bypass the linear regs on the board
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:59] <daveake> LL FWIW I always do the single-pin drive for the NTX2
[21:00] <jonsowman> http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/shop/productprofile.asp?ProductGroupID=2886
[21:00] <jonsowman> these things are crazy
[21:00] <eroomde> be aware (u probably know already) that linear regs don't like being bypassed in as far as having a higher voltage on the output stage than the input stage
[21:00] <daveake> 17Ah ... wow
[21:00] <jonsowman> 17Ah in a D-type cell
[21:00] <Upu> lol
[21:00] <daveake> bypass = remove:)
[21:00] <Upu> thats got some whack
[21:00] <jonsowman> there are AAs and Cs as well
[21:00] <jonsowman> 17AH might be OTT
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, yeah I heard about that, how is that done?
[21:01] <eroomde> ah yeah Saft batteries
[21:01] <daveake> Reg D NiMh is 4Ah I think
[21:01] <Upu> why don't we use them for floaters ?
[21:01] <eroomde> they were the sort of shining glory when we did robot wards
[21:01] <eroomde> wars*
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[21:01] <eroomde> if you had crazy money you went with saft
[21:01] <eroomde> this was before the days of lipo ofcourse
[21:01] <jonsowman> haha
[21:01] <daveake> LL NTX2 --> 30k --> NTX2. NTX2 --> 4k7 --> GND. NTX --> 4k7 --> 3V3
[21:02] <eroomde> you know back when there was rationing we were all much fitter
[21:02] <eroomde> i was 18 before i saw the sea, 35 before i knew what a lesbian was
[21:02] <eroomde> and now they're serving lasagne for sunday lunch
[21:02] <eroomde> the whole world's gone mad
[21:02] Action: Upu ponders
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> saft?
[21:02] <daveake> eroomde's gone mad :p
[21:03] <eroomde> to answer the actual question, NiMH temp performance isn't good
[21:03] <Upu> eroomde that parachute on the Mars lander
[21:03] <daveake> I blame the chilis
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, you participated on Robot Wars?
[21:03] <Upu> looks rather epic
[21:03] <eroomde> i just had some leftover gammon with lentils and dijon mustard
[21:03] <eroomde> a 10p dinner
[21:03] <eroomde> Upu: which one?
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[21:04] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: once upon a time
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> which series?
[21:04] <eroomde> 3
[21:04] <Upu> the one thats landing the nuclear powered space crane with lasers on it
[21:04] <Upu> Opportunity
[21:04] <eroomde> what chute are they using?
[21:04] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki_Af_o9Q9s
[21:04] <Upu> have a watch of that
[21:04] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ola9cG3RgOM
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[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> which robot?
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:05] <Upu> yeah that one I think
[21:06] <eroomde> yeah landing is sort of the hardest bit
[21:06] <eroomde> by some way
[21:07] <eroomde> you see tom rivellini, the balding guy in the video?
[21:07] <eroomde> he's the landing expert
[21:07] <eroomde> he came up with the idea of the airbags for pathfinder and spirit and opportunity
[21:07] <eroomde> he's a bit of a legend
[21:08] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/1wUpM.jpg
[21:08] <eroomde> (gently starstruck)
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[21:11] <daveake> need more Upus
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> thats him on the left?
[21:13] <eroomde> yup
[21:13] <Upu> hmm
[21:13] <Upu> that will be ipv6's playing up again
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[21:14] <Upu> you joining us for a 5am start then eroomde on landing day ?
[21:14] <Upu> or is that just a silly question
[21:14] <eroomde> fo real
[21:15] <eroomde> also doug ellison who used to be a ukhas member now works at jpl and knows tom rivellini quite well - in fact he is chief animator for lots of the jpl videos
[21:15] <eroomde> including MSL
[21:15] <eroomde> so, ukhas alums getting about a bit
[21:15] <Upu> the videos are great
[21:16] <eroomde> i know him from the conference - he came up after the talk about our exomars parachute testing and said he thought it was awesome. i had a bit of a swoon because he's a bit of a hero of mine
[21:16] <eroomde> nasa pathfinder was my nerdy awakening
[21:16] <eroomde> i remember being allowed to stay up and watch patrick moore's bbc 2 coverage - they dedicated the whole night to it
[21:16] <eroomde> i was 9
[21:17] <daveake> Apollo for me
[21:17] <eroomde> and still have all the colouring pencil drawings of pathfinder i did at school the next few days (well, mum kept them)
[21:17] <Upu> Voyager and mainly my dad telling me all about it
[21:17] <Upu> I love the fact they are still going out there
[21:17] <eroomde> yeah, incredible
[21:17] <eroomde> still working
[21:18] <eroomde> it's a lesson for us
[21:19] <Upu> I love the simple fact that when the sun finally blows up the only evidence we ever existed will be Voyagers 1&2
[21:19] <Upu> yeah the lesson is : solar power sucks go nuclear
[21:19] <eroomde> :)
[21:19] <eroomde> new horizons too
[21:19] <daveake> Voyager 1 is nearly outside the heliosphere
[21:19] <eroomde> that's on a solar escape trajectory
[21:20] <Upu> Aren't Pioneers 10 & 11 on soalr escape or are they in some huge orbit ?
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> they are on escape
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> With pre-seeded medusa, you can sustain 1G accelleration for a long time
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> a 'track'
[21:22] <Upu> Yeah anyway Voyager 2 for me, just stunning engineering and problem solving
[21:22] <eroomde> Upu: some awesome reading here: http://history.nasa.gov/computers/Ch6-2.html
[21:23] <Upu> oo tech information thx
[21:23] <Upu> I read up on the protocol it uses to connect back
[21:23] <Upu> G-TOR
[21:23] <Upu> or something was a while ago
[21:24] <eroomde> amazing how more limited computer resources seems to improve reliability
[21:25] <eroomde> when you have to think about every processor op and every register explicitly, you end up with some really neat stuff
[21:25] <Upu> yup
[21:25] <eroomde> the hp signal generator i was trying to fix today is from 1987, it's amazing
[21:26] <eroomde> just loads of discrete logic chips
[21:26] <eroomde> with a v thorough service manual
[21:26] <Upu> its a shame that level of progress wasn't maintained
[21:27] <eroomde> mmm
[21:27] <eroomde> i'd love it if the old nasa guys would publish some tricks and tips for engineering spacecraft
[21:27] <eroomde> the sort of collected wisdom
[21:27] <eroomde> klabs.org is also pretty good in that respect
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> 'Find attractive intern, send over to critical senators'
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> 'include a solid rocket on everything'
[21:28] <daveake> FWIW BBC4 tonight Space Shuttle prog from 10:50, and Wonders Of the Solar System "The Thin Blue Line" from 11:50
[21:28] <eroomde> oh?
[21:28] <eroomde> cool good spot
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[21:28] <Upu> Brian "everythings brilliant" Cox ?
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:29] <daveake> "billions and billions and billions ..."
[21:29] <Upu> just watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXYTwuwsyI&feature=related
[21:29] <Upu> lol
[21:29] <daveake> eroomde You still need to borrow "Moon Machines" from me :)
[21:29] <eroomde> oh yes!
[21:29] <eroomde> reciprocally, BLAST! The Movie
[21:29] <daveake> ;)
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> where can you buy that one?
[21:32] <eroomde> which one?
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> BLAST
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[21:33] <eroomde> lent it from a firend who is a science blogger who got a preview copy
[21:33] <eroomde> here is trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebJglJaMBnA&feature=relmfu
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> wait I think the movie has an official website
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> and there was some way to order
[21:33] <eroomde> worth it - it's a really very good science documentary
[21:34] <eroomde> and to this particular audience, utterly and completely up our street
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC I saw the trailer
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> the one guy was pissed because of sitting in antarctica or so
[21:35] <eroomde> sounds like the one :)
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[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> why exactly is he pissed?
[21:36] <eroomde> might not get back for christmas as he thought he'd be able to originally
[21:36] <eroomde> he has a wife and 2 kids <5
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that is sad to hear
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[21:37] <eroomde> it's fine he does
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:37] <eroomde> but they suffer exactly the same as we do - weather
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> do they show what happens when the balloon is in the air?
[21:37] <eroomde> but they have to stay at their launch site until the weather is good, rather than just egt on with their lives like us
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> I read that the big balloons like that have a ground man who they call "Balloon Pilot" because he is like at the remote
[21:39] <eroomde> yes, you should def watch it
[21:39] <eroomde> you'll enjoy it
[21:39] <eroomde> they initiate cutdown remotely yep
[21:44] <eroomde> Upu: you need to see this documentary too
[21:44] <Upu> Moon Machines ?
[21:45] <eroomde> BLAST! The Movie
[21:45] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebJglJaMBnA&feature=relmfu
[21:45] <eroomde> some grad researchers build a 3 tonne balloon telescope and have lots of woes trying to fly it
[21:46] <Upu> I thin I 've see this
[21:46] <Upu> parts of it
[21:46] <Upu> I'll find it
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> you didnt say it was a horizon program
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> eww horizon
[21:48] <eroomde> the shuttle thing?
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> im going to be trying to destroy my tv in rage now
[21:49] <eroomde> i do broadly agree with you on horizon
[21:49] <eroomde> but ill risk it
[21:49] <eroomde> hopefully its just lots of archival material
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> i may just turn the audio off
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> horizon?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> there is a cool horizon on Feynman
[21:52] <daveake> Horizon used to be good
[21:53] <daveake> 35 years ago
[21:54] Action: SpeedEvil throws Tomorrows World into the channel.
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> who of you knows about arduino and SD cards?
[21:56] <Elwell> Lunar_Lander: yeah I think I have that somwehre - together with his kiwi talks
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:57] <daveake> LL ask
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> do you need four wires for SP?
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> SPI
[21:59] <daveake> That's not an Arduino or SD question, is it?
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[21:59] <daveake> That's a "how many wires does SPI need?" question
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> I am not good
[22:00] <daveake> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus
[22:00] <jonsowman> three
[22:00] <jonsowman> plus a CS/SS
[22:00] <eroomde> alternatively
[22:00] <eroomde> 1
[22:00] <eroomde> plus a miso
[22:00] <eroomde> plus a clock
[22:00] <jonsowman> which is sort of part of the bus but sort of not
[22:00] <eroomde> plus a cs
[22:01] <jonsowman> :P
[22:01] <Elwell> http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/SPI says 3
[22:01] <jonsowman> the bus is 3 wires, is the point
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> what does CS/SS do?
[22:05] <daveake> Chip Select
[22:05] <daveake> Tells the device to start listening to the bus
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> but that isn't mandatory
[22:06] <daveake> eh?
[22:06] <eroomde> i've heard good things about this book too: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apollo-Guidance-Computer-Architecture-Exploration/dp/1441908765/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273537187&sr=8-1
[22:07] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: it's mandatory
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:07] <eroomde> so lots of devices can be on an spi bus
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> MOSI MISO CLK CS
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:07] <eroomde> one master, and lots of slaves
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:07] <eroomde> but they can't all talk at once
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:08] <eroomde> so the chip select is a pin on each slave that the master makes high (or low, see datasheet) to tell the ship to listen
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[22:16] <eroomde> this is bonkers
[22:17] <eroomde> the escape system
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> wow
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[22:18] <Laurenceb_> that rocket thing is epic
[22:18] <eroomde> hoorendoius
[22:18] <eroomde> looks like hypergolic propellants too
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> got to pull a few Gs
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> where?
[22:18] <eroomde> there was a red puff of nitric
[22:19] <eroomde> i guess being alive with disolved skin is better than being dead?
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> the LES was normally solid fuelled
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[22:22] <Laurenceb_> i like the use of a cliff for testing
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> "nasa scientists announce multidecadal plan to get laid"
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.theonion.com/articles/hubble-kaleidoscope-finds-evidence-of-space-lookin,2484/
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:34] <eroomde> mahler is good for space
[22:43] <eroomde> 'designed to be indestructible'
[22:43] <eroomde> death penalty.
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[22:54] <daveake> 18km? pah!
[22:55] <daveake> goes up quite quickly though :)
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> lol brian cox
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> where?
[23:04] <daveake> everywhere
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> up in the staaarrrrzzz
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:11] <daveake> quite literally
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[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Silly banks.
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> ' To help our customers, we have 210 branches who will open on Sunday 24th June from 9am to 12pm. '
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Getting desperate
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> http://www.coleparmer.co.uk/Product/Popper_Micro_Mate_2_cc_syringe_with_glass_luer_slip_tip/WZ-25701-55
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> interesting, very cheap
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> the tolerances on those things are insane
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> you thinking for solder?
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> for my drugs
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> :P
[23:32] <Laurenceb_> actually for adhesives
[23:33] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> Night
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[00:00] --- Sun Jun 24 2012