highaltitude.log.20120622

[00:00] <daveake> Haven't got the time for that much fun :p
[00:00] <fsphil> lol
[00:01] <daveake> I'd need to figure out how to take pictures and grab the jpeg anyway, so that's quite enough fun in one go
[00:01] <gonzo_> need to retire, work gets in the way
[00:01] <fsphil> this sonde is almost directly above me
[00:01] Action: fsphil gets out the laser
[00:02] <gonzo_> I was thinking of a spectre style HAB chase and capture
[00:02] <gonzo_> (was watching some old bond films last week)
[00:02] <fsphil> the signal has faded quite a bit now that it's in my antennas null
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, what was it about the spare veroboard tool again?
[00:03] <gonzo_> it's called a drill bit isn't it?
[00:03] <fsphil> gonzo_: new cut-down device -- giant magnifying glass and mirror, focus sunlight on the balloon to burst it
[00:03] <daveake> vero track cutter
[00:03] <daveake> VBut just use a drill bit
[00:03] <gonzo_> sun, in the UK?!!!
[00:04] <fsphil> you've ruined my plans yet again 007!
[00:05] <fsphil> if this thing burst now I could probably cycle out to get it
[00:06] <fsphil> although I'd need a bike I suppose
[00:06] <fsphil> would look a bit silly otherwise
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, thanks for the hint
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander_> any drill bit?=
[00:07] <daveake> Well, not one from an oil rig
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[00:07] <gonzo_> better still drive out. Why go out without a bike, may as well go out without someting better
[00:07] <fsphil> lol
[00:08] <fsphil> it's heading towards the mountains
[00:08] <fsphil> (or hills as most people call them)
[00:08] <daveake> Ah, Sonde, I've been expecting you
[00:09] <fsphil> Sorry to burst your bubble, Mr.Sonde
[00:09] <daveake> The name's Sonde. Radio Sonde.
[00:09] <gonzo_> just finished my radar reflector. Shame t's too windy to fly it tonight
[00:09] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, ROFL
[00:09] <gonzo_> stupid boy pike!
[00:10] <fsphil> Dr.NoTAM
[00:10] <fsphil> "you name not dave, no tam for you"
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, btw I found the Intervalometer option in CHDK and it works already
[00:11] <daveake> LL cool
[00:11] <daveake> fsphil lol
[00:12] <daveake> Do you expect me to talk? No Mr. SBond I expect you to die!
[00:12] <daveake> nearly
[00:12] <daveake> enter too early
[00:12] <gonzo_> ooer
[00:12] <daveake> Supposed to be Mr Sonde and "fly"
[00:12] <daveake> ENTER KEY too early
[00:13] <fsphil> lol
[00:13] <daveake> Some people here have minds nearly as filthy as mine
[00:13] <fsphil> Carry on HABing
[00:13] <gonzo_> say hello to the gutter on the was past
[00:15] <gonzo_> suppose I should do te sleep thing. GN
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, does CHDK accept the camera settings, i.e. does it recognize that the flash is switched off?
[00:18] <daveake> Try it
[00:18] <daveake> Might vary
[00:18] <daveake> Easier to test than ask :)
[00:18] <daveake> nn gonzo_
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[00:22] <daveake> Tremendous. Parcel Force took my RS order to the wrong depot. Wondered why it didn't arrive here today. Er, yesterday
[00:23] <daveake> right nn all
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[05:57] <eroomde> morn
[05:57] <Upu> morning
[06:02] <eroomde> all well?
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[06:32] <nosebleed_> hello everybody !
[06:35] <eroomde> hi Dr nosebleed_ !
[06:35] <nosebleed_> Dr ? lol
[06:36] <eroomde> not to worry.
[06:38] <nosebleed_> no worries man, peace and love :)
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[08:17] <cuddykid> morning
[08:22] <WillDuckworth> morn
[08:22] <WillDuckworth> ing
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[08:25] <cuddykid> hopefully the weather will improve into next weekend :)
[08:26] <WillDuckworth> hopefully - are you still pursuing hydrogen instead of helium? i've got a little bit left over
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[08:31] <UpuWork-> on Hydrogen : NSFW : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/Funny/tumblr_m5sy3o7Cia1rt8sgdo1_1280.jpg
[08:33] Nick change: UpuWork- -> UpuWork
[08:38] <daveake> lol
[08:39] Action: fsphil will check when not at W
[08:39] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: not sure - it's quite a large upfront cost, but would pay off over time - if you're up for it then we should do it I think
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[09:49] <griffonbot> @HighAltitudeLab: Started working on the flight sensor board #ukhas [http://twitter.com/HighAltitudeLab/status/216105620007424000]
[09:57] <eroomde> new pcb just arrived from the nice mr UPS man
[09:57] <eroomde> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58776840/newcutdownvoard.JPG
[09:57] <Darkside> for the blimp?
[09:58] <jonsowman> very nice
[09:59] <eroomde> aye for terminating them if they break free of their mooring
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[09:59] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
[09:59] <Lunar_Lander_> got a short question, how is it called when you solder wires to components without a board?
[09:59] <Lunar_Lander_> something like "airwiring"?
[10:00] <eroomde> dead-bugging sometimes
[10:00] <eroomde> well, dead bugging is where you glue the component upside down to a bit of board and solder wires directly to its legs, which are sticking up into the air
[10:00] <eroomde> much like a dead bug
[10:00] <Upu> that was a quick turn around eroomde
[10:00] <Upu> looks good
[10:01] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[10:01] <Lunar_Lander_> hey Upu
[10:01] <UpuWork> hi Lunar_Lander
[10:01] <UpuWork> sorry I keep missing you
[10:01] <daveake> Aim better
[10:02] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[10:02] <eroomde> Upu: yeah it was their standard 5 day service
[10:02] <Upu> Meh I use Seeds standard 9-28 day ish service
[10:02] <eroomde> i'll populate this one and develop the new code for it, then if it works probably get a batch made up on a longer lead by a chinese house
[10:02] <eroomde> with black solderresist
[10:02] <Lunar_Lander_> ah yeah eroomde my professor suggested that to me when I showed him a opamp circuit, that I should just turn the opamp around and solder that together than
[10:02] <Lunar_Lander_> *then
[10:02] <Upu> yeah they do look cool
[10:03] <Lunar_Lander_> and maybe dunk it into epoxy
[10:03] <Lunar_Lander_> he said that when I asked him if we need to make a PCB
[10:03] <Lunar_Lander_> and he said that isn't needed for such a simple circuit (photodiode with opamp)
[10:04] <eroomde> probably not needed no
[10:04] <eroomde> though in some situations a pcb is very useful for controlling electro-magnetic interference
[10:04] <eroomde> of course you can make it even worse than dead-bug with a bad pcb design too :)
[10:05] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[10:05] <Lunar_Lander_> XD https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoxy
[10:06] <Lunar_Lander_> have a look at the picture of that on the right
[10:06] <Lunar_Lander_> looks like the board was dunked in chocolate or stuff
[10:06] <eroomde> i wouldn't bother potting anything unless you really need to
[10:06] <fsphil> potted pi
[10:06] <eroomde> you'll only regret it later when you want to modify the circuit
[10:06] <WillDuckworth> what are the advantages of doing so?
[10:07] <eroomde> Upu: sent that hydrogen link around the office
[10:07] <fsphil> commodore used to do that to their PSU bricks .. filled them with epoxy
[10:07] <UpuWork> lol
[10:07] <eroomde> WillDuckworth: if the circuit has to operate in nasty environements, say
[10:07] <eroomde> v high vibrations or impacts
[10:07] <eroomde> or corrosives perhaps
[10:08] <WillDuckworth> ta
[10:08] <daveake> fsphil Now might be a good time to admit I bought a box of CBM PSUs at an auction thinking I could repair them
[10:08] <Lunar_Lander_> eroomde, yea
[10:08] <Lunar_Lander_> fsphil, ROFL
[10:08] <eroomde> i once had to make a batch of flex0based distance sensors to detect where a steel shaft was inside a meganetic bearing where it was being levitated
[10:09] <eroomde> they were coils and some driving circuitry and some conditioning circuitry, and were working on big natural gas compressors sucking mostly gas but also random crap out of the ground
[10:09] <eroomde> sp those were potted
[10:09] <eroomde> so*
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> neat.
[10:09] Action: SpeedEvil wants to make some maglev bearings.
[10:09] <eroomde> flex0based? wow typo. flux-based
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> meganetic is a bit questionable too :)
[10:09] <fsphil> lol daveake
[10:10] <fsphil> their PSUs used to fail anyway, despite the epoxy
[10:10] <UpuWork> <- old enough to have owned an Original "melting brick" CBM PSU
[10:10] <UpuWork> and beige ftw
[10:10] Action: eroomde <- never heard of CBM before
[10:11] <fsphil> I have the more "modern" PSU brick
[10:11] <daveake> I was waiting to pay when an old sage stood next to me and asked "You do know they're potted, don't you?"
[10:11] <daveake> (this was when I wasn't old myself)
[10:11] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[10:11] <eroomde> i have just aquired an old agilent signal generator that is apparently broken
[10:11] <eroomde> in that some of the output modes do some funny things at certain frequencies
[10:12] <Lunar_Lander_> there once was a cheap soap opera on our public TV where there was like a guy who made some invitations or so for a wedding on his PC
[10:12] <eroomde> i am v excited because that old agilent test-gear is emminently fixable
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[10:12] <Lunar_Lander_> and then a woman who wanted to sabotage the wedding took a glass of water and poured that into the computer's PSU
[10:12] <eroomde> they have amazing service manuals
[10:12] <Lunar_Lander_> and then she was like "oh. don't know what happened"
[10:13] <fsphil> I spilled salt water on my PC once. it was sad
[10:14] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
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[10:20] <eroomde> idea for a useful gadget for me: an adjustable pcb stencil holder
[10:20] <eroomde> something that will securely hold and align the stencil and pcb, without me making a new specific jig for each board
[10:21] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[10:22] <fsphil> +1
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[10:22] Action: fsphil puts on his inventing cap
[10:22] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[10:22] <Lunar_Lander_> btw do you know Mystery Science Theater 3000?
[10:22] Action: daveake Needs to invent an inventing cap
[10:22] <fsphil> mine is patented
[10:22] <daveake> if only I already had one, then I could invent one
[10:24] <eroomde> STRATEGY!
[10:24] <eroomde> When the profit's gone and you can't go on, get STRATEGY!
[10:24] <eroomde> When the fixed costs rise and your margin dies it's hard to bear
[10:25] <Lunar_Lander_> btw do you know Mystery Science Theater 3000?
[10:25] <eroomde> without us consulting you're going nowhere
[10:25] <eroomde> derner ner ner ner
[10:25] <fsphil> oh dear
[10:25] <nick_> :S
[10:25] <fsphil> is this what a breakdown looks like?
[10:25] <nick_> I think something must have fallen on his head.
[10:25] <eroomde> i was inspired to have some kind of internal corporate motivating song for a management consultancy
[10:26] <daveake> Daisy, Daisy ....
[10:26] <eroomde> in the style of the earst-and-young crime against taste and decency
[10:26] <eroomde> no not that stupid google
[10:27] <eroomde> this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaIq9o1H1yo
[10:27] <eroomde> i knew instantly the city wasn't for me when i saw this
[10:28] <nick_> Oh god
[10:28] <Darkside> wat
[10:28] <nick_> Maybe you need a city built on rock and roll?
[10:28] <nick_> I can't take more than a minute of that.
[10:28] Action: daveake feels a little bit ick
[10:29] <daveake> I'm glad I decided to be a programmer. We don't get weird motivational stuff at all .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4MzqBFxZE
[10:30] <eroomde> can't really see steve jobs doing that
[10:30] <nick_> My friend decided the beastie boy's check it out should be the programmer song.
[10:30] <eroomde> not least because he's dead, but even then
[10:30] <Darkside> i knew what that was before i clicked it
[10:30] <daveake> beat me to it :p
[10:30] <Darkside> there wa sonly one thing it could be
[10:30] <daveake> :)
[10:31] <nick_> Personally I think their song OK is more apt.
[10:31] <eroomde> daveake: we actually have better motivational songs as programmers
[10:31] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BH7poMtPVU
[10:31] <daveake> For various s/w companies it should be "I can't stand up for falling down"
[10:32] <daveake> oh my
[10:35] <eroomde> i have been to a ouple of talks of his
[10:35] <nick_> The more I find out about Stallman the more I feel obligated to have him sectioned.
[10:35] <daveake> My pi now has NMEA being stuffed into the serial port
[10:35] <eroomde> they're always interesting in a peculiar way
[10:35] <Darkside> daveake: and now you're down a serial port
[10:35] <Darkside> which means you can't transmit RTTY
[10:35] <daveake> I have a plan
[10:35] <eroomde> he produced singularly the least illuminating graph to aid a point he was making in probably the entire history of talks
[10:35] <Darkside> software timed rtty is going to be interesting
[10:35] <eroomde> he had an OHP
[10:36] <daveake> Which is to use the same port for both
[10:36] <Darkside> daveake: possible
[10:36] <daveake> I know
[10:36] <eroomde> and said 'this axis is perniciousness of copyright'
[10:36] <eroomde> 'this axis is joy'
[10:36] <Darkside> hmm
[10:36] <nick_> lol
[10:36] <daveake> Just switch baud rates, get NME, switch back, send rtty, repeat
[10:36] <eroomde> then draw like a spider on it that was meant to be the inetrnet
[10:36] <eroomde> or something
[10:36] <daveake> +A
[10:36] <eroomde> i was baffled
[10:36] <Darkside> daveake: dodgy way
[10:36] <Darkside> how about use something that can do realtime stuff :P
[10:36] <nick_> Have you read his list of demands for if you are hosting him?
[10:36] <Darkside> like, i dunno, a $3 microcontroller?
[10:36] <daveake> Not dodgy at all. It'll work
[10:37] <daveake> Yeah but then I might as well fly the microcontroller on its own
[10:37] <Darkside> like normal
[10:37] <Darkside> :P
[10:37] <daveake> Just trying to do this with the pi doing the work
[10:37] <Darkside> how about have an AVR coprocessor
[10:37] <Darkside> :P
[10:37] <daveake> :p
[10:37] <daveake> Exactly what I'm trying to avoid!
[10:37] <Darkside> haha
[10:37] <Darkside> trying to get exact timing out of linux is going to be fun
[10:37] <daveake> Indeed. Which is why I'm not.
[10:38] <Darkside> why not try a tim solution :P
[10:38] <Darkside> usb to serial adapters
[10:38] <daveake> :D
[10:38] <daveake> Annoyingly, this thing does have 2 serial ports, and you can map either to the I/O connector, but not both at the same time
[10:38] <nick_> I heard about someone getting linux running on an avr the other day
[10:39] <daveake> There might be a backery solution tho
[10:39] <nick_> The beautiful part being that the avr was running an arm emulator
[10:39] <nick_> I'm not sure that there's enough time in the universe to get it to boot up, but they think it was working.
[10:40] <Darkside> hahahhahaa
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[10:41] <SpeedEvil> nick_: I think you meant x86
[10:42] <Daviey> running linux on an AVR seems NUTS.
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> It was someone over on ##electronics
[10:42] <Daviey> running linux on ARM, A10.. seems better IMO.
[10:43] <nick_> SpeedEvil: cool, you know them?
[10:43] <nick_> Have they been taken away yet?
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> http://hackaday.com/2012/03/28/building-the-worst-linux-pc-ever/ - is the one you referred to
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> but not ...
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[10:50] <eroomde> nick_: yes i have
[10:50] <eroomde> also terrifying
[10:50] <eroomde> 'if you have a parrot i would like to be with it'
[10:51] <eroomde> 'do not talk to me about breakfast'
[10:51] <nick_> But don't get a parrot just because of him.
[10:52] <nick_> I think my favourite point in the list was his precise sleeping temperature
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[10:53] <nick_> Or maybe the demand that if he's staying in a hotel then you must go there and check their internet connection yourself.
[10:53] <fsphil> that's what I meant to do today, vpn
[10:54] <daveake> Don't introduce him to a wild one then. That would be a parroty error.
[10:57] <fsphil> that was really baud
[11:00] <daveake> I'm here all week. Fortunately there's not much left of it.
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[11:54] <Laurenceb> muhahaha
[11:54] <Laurenceb> fedex have dropped off my drums of Xylene and hexane
[11:54] <Laurenceb> *demonic laughter*
[11:57] <Laurenceb> of course i still want some cyclohexane
[12:06] <fsphil> I read that too quickly, and thought it said "my drum kit and xylophone"
[12:17] <Daviey> That is how i read it as well.
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[12:21] <fsphil> we should form the ukhas band
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[12:31] <kokey> weird, just heard someone tell me about black rock, the investment/asset management company having their staff form a band for charity
[12:35] <Laurenceb> just saw a very interesting setup being used for roadworks
[12:36] <Laurenceb> handheld water jet cutter and huge truck mounted vacuum with hydraulic arm
[12:37] <Laurenceb> went to truck mounted vacuum that separated the debris and chucked it into a hopper
[12:38] <Laurenceb> so one guy cuts the road into little squares and the other controls the arm with a remote to suck it up
[12:39] <Laurenceb> very cool, until they cut into an 11KV cable....
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[12:44] <kokey> with water, haha
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[12:47] <bambi> Hello - Can somone advise about transmitting antannas for the payloads please?
[12:52] <eroomde> yes
[12:52] <eroomde> you're in australia right?
[12:53] <bambi> correct
[12:53] <eroomde> not that physics is different there
[12:53] <eroomde> just needs a change of sign
[12:53] <eroomde> anyway, fire away
[12:54] <bambi> well its the 434Mhz frequency unit
[12:54] <bambi> I have never designed an antanna before and I was just interested in what people were using?
[12:55] <eroomde> good question, so there's is a fairly common answer which is that everyone uses a 1/4 wave with ground plane, but i'll first give you some explanation as to what we're looking for and why it's a good design
[12:56] <bambi> Thank you
[12:56] <eroomde> so there are lots of different antenna options, imagine you could have a tiny dot which was an antenna, and it radiated as a perfectly smooth sphere
[12:57] <bambi> maybe something people have had succes with would be best?
[12:57] <eroomde> so you could stand anywehere relative to this dot, and still get the same amount of energy from it, because it's 'radiation pattern' is perfectly smooth and spherical
[12:57] <eroomde> this kind of antenna is called an Isotropic antenna
[12:57] <eroomde> and it doesn't exist, it can't be made
[12:58] <fsphil> metatenna
[12:58] <eroomde> but it's the sort of theroretical model you use to compare other antennas with
[12:58] <daveake> canna-make-atenna
[12:59] <eroomde> so, in any actual antenna, because it has 'shape', will deform this perfect sphere of isotropic radiation in some way
[12:59] <eroomde> that means it'll push more energy in some directions and compensate by taking energy away from other directions
[12:59] <bambi> ok Thank you but in actual construction - cabling etc what has been used and has been successful
[12:59] <eroomde> gah ok i'll take my lecture hat off
[13:00] <bambi> :)
[13:00] <eroomde> you want a length of coax and some wire
[13:00] <eroomde> you want one bit of wire to hang vertically and be cut to a length that is the wavelength of the frequency you're using deivided by 4
[13:00] <eroomde> this is the 'active' element and it hangs down vertically
[13:00] <eroomde> you connect it to the inner core of the co-ax cable which comes from yuor radio
[13:01] <bambi> ok....
[13:01] <eroomde> then you need to make a 'ground plane' which can be some lengths of wire sticking out horizontally from the same point your active element is attached, but the ground wires need to be attached to the ground sheath (the outer metalic jacket) of the coax
[13:01] <eroomde> it looks like this:
[13:03] <eroomde> http://blog.jgc.org/2011/01/gaga-1-getting-close-to-completion.html
[13:03] <eroomde> scroll towards the bottom
[13:03] <bambi> < looks
[13:03] <eroomde> where he's cutting up coathangers
[13:04] <bambi> oh that is quite elegant
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[13:05] <bambi> what are the connectors called? thay are smaller than BNC yes?
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[13:05] <eroomde> SMA
[13:05] <eroomde> but it doesn't matter
[13:05] <eroomde> if you want to use BNC then do
[13:05] <bambi> lighter is better of course
[13:06] <eroomde> indeed, though as some people here will tell you, i tend to bang the saucepan of robustness a lot
[13:06] <eroomde> even if there's a small mass penalty
[13:06] <bambi> understandable - its a balance I guess
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[13:07] <nick_> It seems to me (with 0 flights...) that mass isn't all that important.
[13:07] <eroomde> basically it's not uncommon for people to jsut have a dangling bit of loose wire as the antenna, and that can easily be bashed out of shape
[13:07] <nick_> At least not worrying about the odd gram here or there
[13:07] <eroomde> and that will badly affect the performance of the antenna
[13:07] <bambi> well theer are restrictions here for weight
[13:08] <eroomde> i think we're talking about 400g vs 800g
[13:08] <eroomde> ie still well shy of the restructions
[13:08] <bambi> well cameras batteries etc all add up :)
[13:08] <bambi> so SMA connectors
[13:09] <eroomde> it's still v possible to do 2 or 3 cameras and a tracker with 2 days battery life for <1kg
[13:09] <eroomde> so panic not
[13:09] <nick_> bambi: what are your mass restrictions?
[13:09] <bambi> I think its < 1kg
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[13:09] <nick_> I know in America it's ~2kg split over 2 packages.
[13:10] <nick_> (of course they are akward and use pounds, so I forget the exact amount)
[13:10] <eroomde> i've never heard any of the other aus guys talk about <1kg
[13:10] <eroomde> regardless, 1kg will not limit you if you just want to fly a balloon and take cool photos
[13:11] <nick_> I'd have thought in australia you could have a fairly high mass. Let's face it, if you randomly pick a point there it's got a probability of ~0 to be a place with anything interesting.
[13:11] <bambi> I may be wrong but keeping an eye on weight is good I tink
[13:11] <eroomde> yes strongly agreed
[13:11] <eroomde> staying under 1kg is a good idea unless you have a specific reason to go over
[13:11] <eroomde> so yes, in terms of actually making an antenna
[13:11] <bambi> cool
[13:12] <nick_> Like launching the official kg?
[13:12] <eroomde> it's very possible to do a shit job putting an sma onto a cable
[13:12] <eroomde> it's also very possible to do a very nice job
[13:12] <bambi> well I will try my best
[13:12] <eroomde> so, don't guess, follow a guide, chop everything to the lengths specified in the guides, don't accept loose bits of braid floating around, and use some kind of strain releif
[13:13] <bambi> so the antanna can be like coat hanger wire 1.5~2mm dia?
[13:13] <eroomde> yes
[13:13] <eroomde> if it's going to be 'solid' like that, definitely have eye protection at the edges
[13:13] <eroomde> like a pingpong ball or something
[13:13] <eroomde> you don't want to spike whoever you land on
[13:14] <bambi> yes indeed
[13:14] <eroomde> some people instead use normal floppy wire and put it through a drinking straw to hold it still
[13:14] <bambi> oh thats another way
[13:14] <eroomde> or even better, something elastic but flexible, like a thickish cable-tie
[13:14] <eroomde> so it will be able to take a few bangs but still spring back into position and radiate properly
[13:15] <bambi> yes saftey is best
[13:16] <eroomde> you can see what has been done in this payload:
[13:16] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/set-72157624203062811
[13:16] <bambi> < looks
[13:16] <eroomde> there ground plane wires were attached to cable ties and covered in black heat-shrink tube
[13:16] <eroomde> and the active vertical wire was encased in a bit of domestic pipe insulation
[13:17] <bambi> yes
[13:17] <bambi> the straw or thin tubing may ba a good way
[13:17] <eroomde> which should be sufficiently spring for it to fall over on its side when it lands, rather than just crash the antenna and land on its bottom
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[13:17] <eroomde> a very lightweight impleemtation (note: upside down) http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/7406477942/in/photostream
[13:18] <bambi> < looks
[13:19] <bambi> ah yes
[13:20] <bambi> what is the size of the coax that is often used?
[13:20] <eroomde> rg-174
[13:20] <bambi> Thank you
[13:21] <UpuWork> afternoon
[13:21] <UpuWork> hi bambi
[13:22] <bambi> hello upu how is your day going?
[13:22] <UpuWork> not bad just back from taking a client to the pub so full :)
[13:23] <bambi> I must find a job like yours :)
[13:24] <UpuWork> well its a good client to try keep them on the right side
[13:24] <bambi> always
[13:24] <eroomde> so that they get hit my oncoming traffic?
[13:24] <eroomde> by*
[13:24] <bambi> upu may I ask you soon about the code and some assistance with that please?
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[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[13:25] <Lunar_LanderU> can dl-fldigi handle a callsign with an umlaut?
[13:25] <Lunar_LanderU> in especially the Ö
[13:25] <Lunar_LanderU> or do we need a Oe instead
[13:26] <eroomde> 8-bit ascii has those characters
[13:26] <UpuWork> I'd not use it
[13:26] <eroomde> so you can if you want
[13:26] <UpuWork> if you're using 7bit
[13:26] <UpuWork> or what eroomde said
[13:26] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[13:26] <eroomde> but as UpuWork says, you can't if you're running something smaller like 7-bit ascii
[13:26] <Lunar_LanderU> for 8 bit I have to write that into the code at the appropiate place
[13:26] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[13:26] <eroomde> http://www.asciitable.com/
[13:26] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[13:26] <UpuWork> you won't get away with it under badot
[13:27] <Lunar_LanderU> when I would use baudot instead of RTTY?
[13:27] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: yes, you will have to make sure your Tx code is set up for 8-bit ascii and that the distributed listener needs to know what to expect (i.e. 7 bit ascii)
[13:27] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: baudot is 5-bits
[13:27] <eroomde> and you don't use it 'instead' of rtty
[13:27] <UpuWork> badot is a 5 bit
[13:27] <eroomde> rtty is a modulation scheme
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[13:28] <UpuWork> reduced characters
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> sorry
[13:28] <eroomde> baudot is a character set like 8-bit or 7-bit ascii
[13:28] <UpuWork> its missing the $$
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> for the latter thing, i.e. what the receiver expects we have the payload document and the dl-fldigi autoconfiguration feature?
[13:28] <eroomde> correct
[13:29] <eroomde> so part of the purpose of those douments is to give fldigi the information it needs to decode directly, and the character set (eg 8 bit or 7 bit ascii or baudot) is one of those bits of info in the document
[13:29] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[13:30] <Lunar_LanderU> because a swedish friend suggested ÖRNEN as name for the payload
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[13:30] <Lunar_LanderU> swedish for eagle
[13:30] <Lunar_LanderU> in honour of Salomon August Andree
[13:30] <eroomde> ah yes him
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[13:32] <Lunar_LanderU> yea well the idea of the polar balloon wasn't that sound
[13:32] <Lunar_LanderU> XD I just imagine HAB in 1897
[13:32] <eroomde> cartesian balloons are easier
[13:32] <eroomde> i think i need a coffee
[13:34] <bambi> ero> Thank you for your help
[13:34] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[13:35] <eroomde> bambi: np
[13:35] <bambi> its near midnight here so sleep time for me soon
[13:36] <Lunar_LanderU> ah, australia?
[13:36] <eroomde> the wrong side of 'near midnight' too!
[13:36] <eroomde> oh wait timezones
[13:36] <bambi> 23:36 to be exact
[13:40] <nosebleed_> what's going on here?
[13:43] <Darkside> hehe
[13:43] <Darkside> 23:13 hwew
[13:43] <Darkside> here
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[13:46] <Lunar_LanderU> hi nosebleed_
[13:46] <bambi> good evening
[13:47] <bambi> sleep time for me ~byes~
[13:48] <Laurenceb> TUBBY SAY BYBY
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[13:52] <Darkside> Laurenceb: i think you scared her
[13:54] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfYP56ziEU4
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[14:00] <nosebleed_> lol
[14:00] <Lunar_LanderU> XD!
[14:00] <Lunar_LanderU> nosebleed_: I found something funny on wikipedia
[14:00] <nosebleed_> Lunar_LanderU: prepare tonight
[14:00] <nosebleed_> we gonna beat you
[14:01] <Lunar_LanderU> XD!
[14:01] <nosebleed_> hahaha
[14:01] <Lunar_LanderU> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoxy#Electrical_systems_and_electronics
[14:01] <Lunar_LanderU> the picture on the right
[14:01] <nosebleed_> epoxy?
[14:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:01] <nosebleed_> looks like shit on IC
[14:01] <nosebleed_> :P
[14:02] <nosebleed_> Lunar_LanderU: prepare your nation tonight
[14:02] <nosebleed_> you gonna feel greek football
[14:02] <nosebleed_> lol
[14:02] <nosebleed_> but we dont have our funniest player
[14:02] <nosebleed_> he got many yellows and now he cant play
[14:02] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[14:02] <Lunar_LanderU> ohhh
[14:03] <nosebleed_> here we are so much for this match
[14:03] <nosebleed_> whole country will watch
[14:03] <nosebleed_> merkel will be there and we want to beat her!
[14:06] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[14:06] <Lunar_LanderU> btw how was the election?
[14:06] <Lunar_LanderU> and how is your NOTAM?
[14:07] <nosebleed_> first NOTAM was cancelled. Now we start a new try. They asked me for info about the UK CCA
[14:07] <nosebleed_> to call them and ask advices
[14:07] <nosebleed_> I still wait from them
[14:07] <nosebleed_> CAA*
[14:08] <nosebleed_> Upu gave me all the info I wanted
[14:08] <nosebleed_> elections, bah I dont want to talk politics now.
[14:09] <nosebleed_> anyway
[14:09] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:09] <nosebleed_> I close to go home.
[14:09] <nosebleed_> cu
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[14:11] <Lunar_LanderU> I'll also go back to my lab
[14:11] <Lunar_LanderU> cu!
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[15:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] Eurus 2 Launch Sunday 1000 BST"
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[16:05] <mclane> Hi, does anyone have experience with CHDK firmware on Canon A800?
[16:06] <mclane> I am looking for a good intervallometer - switching off the LCD screen
[16:07] <mclane> to conserve battery power
[16:08] <kokey> ah
[16:08] <kokey> I had one, when I was doing time lapse a lot
[16:08] <kokey> it's on my mac at home
[16:08] <kokey> I spent a lot of time to make sure I made it use as little battery as possible
[16:08] <kokey> I think part of it is also reducing or switching off review after the image
[16:09] <kokey> and switching off the display
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[16:09] <kokey> it still comes on for a wee little bit tho
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[16:15] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> my board actually gets populated, I got RX and TX lines for the GPS, the common GND and the SDA and SCL lines for the barosensor
[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> and now for the final time hopefully
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[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> which resistors for NTX2 on 3.3V?
[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> hi jcoxon
[16:17] <jcoxon> hi
[16:17] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[16:18] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@146.66.36.22: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, Eurus 2 launch Sun 24/06/12 1000 BST
[16:19] <mclane> Lunar_Lander: I used 26.7k and 22k to TX and 10k from there to GND
[16:20] <mclane> with that you will have about 460 Hz shift
[16:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[16:22] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[16:23] <Lunar_LanderU> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2#circuit_diagram which are which on that diagram?
[16:24] <Upu> ping RocketBoy
[16:25] <mclane> Lunar_Lander: I have to correct my statement: if you change R3 from 10 k to 47 k you will have about 460 Hz shift at 3.3V
[16:26] <mclane> leave the rest of the circuit as is
[16:27] <Lunar_LanderU> ah, change R3 to 47 k
[16:27] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks!
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[16:31] <Smrtz> Hey, is a wiki admin here? I found an error on a page
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[16:32] <jcoxon> Smrtz, i can help
[16:32] <Smrtz> cool, thanks.
[16:32] <Smrtz> so this page says to use VAC.
[16:32] <Smrtz> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[16:33] <Upu> yup
[16:33] <Smrtz> but VAC is $25, and the trial injects, "trial" into the stream every 10 seconds
[16:33] <Upu> unless you can route the sound via your sound card drives
[16:34] <Smrtz> so you can't use it for this, unless you could set Dl-FlDigi to ignore 1 second every 10.
[16:34] <Upu> I didn't think it was every 10 seconds
[16:34] <Upu> ok
[16:34] <Smrtz> So I'm using jack. http://jackaudio.org
[16:34] <daveake> Any habhub people around? I'd like the latest BUZZ doc made current so I can do a little bit of testing, please.
[16:34] <Upu> if that works
[16:34] <Smrtz> it's free, works on linux, mac, and windows
[16:35] <Upu> please feel free to update the Wiki
[16:35] <Smrtz> and as far as I can tell it works
[16:35] <Smrtz> ok, cool, I just wanted some permition before, since I'm new here.
[16:35] <Smrtz> thanks, I'll do it later tonight
[16:36] <Upu> in fairness I did put " download and install Virtual Audio Cable or some other such software."
[16:36] <jcoxon> Smrtz, feel free to edit hte wiki
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[16:36] <Smrtz> thanks
[16:36] <jcoxon> the more info the better
[16:36] <daveake> http://i.imgur.com/q8mqz.png <-- That's a raspberry pi being useful, that is.
[16:37] <jcoxon> you got dl-fldigi working?
[16:37] <daveake> lol
[16:37] <daveake> No, as a tracker
[16:37] <jcoxon> oh right
[16:37] <jcoxon> how is it driving the radio?
[16:37] <daveake> I don't have *that* much spare time :p
[16:37] <kokey> you got rtl-sdr working on it? ;-)
[16:37] <daveake> UART --> NTX2
[16:38] <kokey> just use the LPT port
[16:38] <daveake> Then I switch baud rates, get the NMEA data, then switch back
[16:38] <kokey> ;-)
[16:38] <jcoxon> down at 300 baud
[16:38] <daveake> Yep
[16:38] <jcoxon> oh nice
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[16:38] <jcoxon> bbiab
[16:39] <daveake> Annoyingly, the pi has 2 serial ports but (AFAIK) you can only map one at a time to the GPIO connector
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[17:24] Action: jcoxon is updating the TLE for the ISS on Eurus 2
[17:25] <eroomde> because just because
[17:25] <jcoxon> cause we are launching!
[17:25] <jcoxon> finally
[17:25] <number10> :)
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[17:26] <jcoxon> number10, 0900 on sunday good for you?
[17:26] <number10> yes. will be there
[17:26] <jcoxon> great
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[17:28] <RocketBoy> hey eroomde: I'm planning on a special floater flight when you get the pressure sensor done
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[19:24] <eroomde> so my nice HP signal generator that's a bit errorsome and so perhaps fixable is actually now a monster
[19:24] <eroomde> like, every front panel light blinking on and off and the fan revving up and down and the rrror light flashing at like 1hz
[19:24] <eroomde> this could be harder than i at furst thought
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> lmao
[19:25] <daveake> Have you tried switching it off and on again? :p
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> He said he's doing that.
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> At 1hz
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> sounds like my Tektronix scope
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Power supply problems sound likely
[19:26] <daveake> yep
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Or demons.
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Leaky ectoplasmic cavitators.
[19:26] <eroomde> yes certainly looking at psu but that's new since yesterday
[19:27] <eroomde> it does acta bit like it's reenacting a scene from the exorcist
[19:27] <eroomde> i'm just waiting for it to grab the scope probe and shove it in and out of its bnc connector
[19:30] <eroomde> i'll throw tomorrow at it
[19:30] Action: Laurenceb_ has chibios running on his gps stick
[19:30] <eroomde> it's a lovely thing, 1mHz to 50Mhz sine square and triangle, pulses and sweeps, 50 ohm of 1khm impedence
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> ive got the chibios terminal running
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> which is slightly silly
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> but i guess its useful for debugging
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> i can just screen /dev/usbACM0 to debug
[19:32] <eroomde> i know this question might invite accusations of ignorance (gratefully accepted) but i am put off by the immaturity of cortex m4 open source tools and the faff of getting code onto them
[19:32] <Laurenceb_> chibios runs quite nicely
[19:32] <Laurenceb_> and texane is ok
[19:33] <eroomde> i would really like something like an avrdude that did the jtag stuff as a black box, so i could just compile, squirt it on, then run
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> the hal is a little annoying
[19:33] <eroomde> yeah the hal looks like a fart
[19:33] <eroomde> i avoided it last time
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> texane is almost that good
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> heh
[19:33] <eroomde> texane might have come on a bit since the last time i played
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> im going to try and add circular dma spi support
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> not sure if its worth it
[19:33] <eroomde> i want to get ethernet working on the m4
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> thats supported quite well
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> lwip runs too
[19:34] <eroomde> then it allows a nice upgrade path for some data logging stuff we've made at work
[19:34] <eroomde> yeah lwip is what i looked at
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> with fatfs i think you could do ftp etc
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> tho i havent tried
[19:35] <eroomde> ah we just stream live
[19:35] <eroomde> receive it at the pc end
[19:37] <eroomde> a little c program runs on the laptop which takes the streams from the boxes and aligns their timestamps and basically makes a giant csv
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> neat
[19:38] <Laurenceb_> i just need to dma a ton of data from the front end via spi
[19:39] <Laurenceb_> im going to try and shove it all via usb first, not sure if this will work
[19:39] <Laurenceb_> it should theoretically, but some of my usb ports are stupidly slow for some reason
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> I accidentally reversed the usb connector and used a 1.8v tcxo, so ill need to do a new pcb before i give any sticks out
[19:41] <eroomde> yeah i hate the 'for some reason' thing
[19:41] <eroomde> i've bumped into it a couple of times
[19:41] <eroomde> for all their slowness, avrs are so hammered out and solid
[19:43] <eroomde> that's not to dismiss ARM at all, i love it
[19:43] <eroomde> and will still use them
[19:43] <eroomde> but bugger me what i wouldn't do for just a 60Mhz avr sometimes
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> heh
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> theres fpslic
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> if you can find one
[19:43] <eroomde> who?
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> avr + small fpga in a single ic
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> not made anymore
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> featured a very fast avr
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2010/08/19/fpslic-powered-led-matrix/
[19:45] <eroomde> nice
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[19:45] <eroomde> yeah i guess the m4 thing isn't a huge woe
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> http://www.limpkin.fr/public/led_board.jpg
[19:46] <eroomde> i mean, once you've decoded how you use a peripheral you can abstract it away nicely in like half an hour's worth of C
[19:46] <eroomde> but i do sort of sigh a little every time i have to use a new peripheral
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> heh
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah F4 is a bit more aweful than F1
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> I2C took me weeks to get working
[19:47] <eroomde> you're using F1?
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> for most of my projects yes
[19:47] <eroomde> i2c always takes weeks
[19:47] <eroomde> it's a ghastly standard
[19:47] <eroomde> i loathe it
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> only using F4 on my stick
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> im just starting a new version of my logger board using F4
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> but pcb layout only atm
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> im kind of hoping for L4,F5 and F3
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> all supposed to come out soon
[19:48] <eroomde> what are they all?
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> F5== faster F4 with some more peripherals like syncronous gpio
[19:49] <eroomde> a useful widget i saw a gap for recently is a 0-100khz(ish) spectrum analyser
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> F3== F4 with groovy 16bit fast adc and other coolness
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> L4==F4 made with the L low power silicon
[19:50] <eroomde> which could have an output or 2 that can do things like swept sine and a few nicely made analog input channels for something like piezo accelerometers or whatever
[19:50] <eroomde> which would let you characterise control system
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> i use my scope for that
[19:50] <eroomde> but calcing the transfer function
[19:50] <eroomde> by*
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> 10Gsample :D
[19:50] <eroomde> i want something that will plug into usb and make my a nyquist plot
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> /second
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> ah
[19:51] Action: Laurenceb_ returns to playing with his dangerous chemicals
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> managed to glue silicone rubber to my hand
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> which is an achievement
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[19:53] Nick change: KingJ_ -> KingJ
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> xylene smells worryingly nice
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[20:02] <eroomde> the gosfather II
[20:02] <eroomde> godfather*
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> no gosfather
[20:02] <eroomde> i am now less upset about being ditched by my friend this evening
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> i have loads of gos in various canisters here
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> girlfriend?
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> _> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTrWPqS4Kxk
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[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> crap
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> another goal
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> heh
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/06/21/sony_1.jpg
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> ^its funny cuz theres no light on the bottom one
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> earlier I worked on my onboard veroboard
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> what decoupling capacitors shall I buy?
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> and what does need one?
[20:08] <r2x0t> more like it's coated so it's not reaflecting any light
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. does the NTX2 need one?
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[20:11] <Laurenceb_> owww
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> silicone adhesive takes the top of your skin off
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> another interesting lesson
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[20:13] <daveake> or lesion
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[20:13] <daveake> hi LL
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> crap, 3rd goal
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, does NTX2 need a decoupling capacitor?
[20:14] <daveake> Doubt it.
[20:14] <daveake> But as a rule of thumb, stick 'em everywhere
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> always across VCC and GND?
[20:15] <daveake> Assuming 1 supply lline, yes
[20:15] <daveake> The NTX2 has its own regulator and probably (I've not checked) decoupling caps too
[20:15] <daveake> The main thing is to get one close to the supply lines on any digital stuff
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> like the sensors?
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[20:17] <eroomde> if its power requirements are 'square' then you really need decoupling caps
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:17] <eroomde> because all the current sonsumption happens when switching
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> onewire is square?
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:18] <eroomde> so you need the caps to locally supply the current and stop big noisy radiation when the switching happens
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:22] <eroomde> probs a good idea for one-wire
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> and the BMP085 has SDA and SCL
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> isn't that also some sort of onewire?
[20:23] <eroomde> decoupling is a good idea for power supplies
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> I already have that I think
[20:23] <eroomde> it is most certainly not a good idea for signals :)
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> I put up the voltage regulator as given in the datasheet
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> with two capacitors
[20:23] <eroomde> sda and scl are signals
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> and my question is, does that need a power decoupling capacitor?
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> I don't want to put a capacitor on the data line of course
[20:24] <eroomde> my answer is, read what i just said
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:24] <eroomde> which is completely unambiguous
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> and what about wire colours?
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> I have like GPS TX green GPS RX yellow
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> is it good to try to have one colour for each purpose?
[20:25] <daveake> If you use the same colour everywhere the electrons get confused about where to go
[20:25] <eroomde> the signal integrety can be improved if you put a little hello kitty sticker around each line
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
[20:25] <eroomde> it lowers the parasitic inductance
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> I actually have "zebra" wire
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> like black and white
[20:26] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: yeah it can be helpful if it helps you
[20:26] <eroomde> but dont worry about it
[20:27] <eroomde> sorry not Laurenceb_ , Lunar_Lander
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> i need a hello kitty sticker for the back of my laptop
[20:27] <eroomde> a lot of things often just have black for ground and then don't worry about everything else
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Reusable-Pink-HELLO-KITTY-Wall-Stickers-Girls-Nursery-Child-Room-Vinyl-/260922642327?pt=UK_Wallpaper&hash=item3cc0338f97
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> hell yeah
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[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, well yea my scheme has one error
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> I use red for VCCb
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> -b
[20:30] <eroomde> red is fine for vcc
[20:30] <eroomde> that's common
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> but in the power supply part there is one red wire carrying input voltage
[20:30] <eroomde> red for vcc, black for gnd
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> so it is like having double meaning
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> but in the main part of the board it carries 3.3V
[20:30] <eroomde> well indeed, it's best to not rely too much on wire colours
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> I then made SCL yellow too
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> and used "Zebra" for SDA
[20:30] <eroomde> a lot of the stuff we do professionally just has one colour wire
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:31] <eroomde> often pink
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea and I thought like green goes toward arduino and yellow from arduino
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> if SCL goes from arduino to the sensor?
[20:31] <eroomde> whatever suits you
[20:31] <eroomde> there is no standard for it
[20:31] <daveake> too complicated
[20:32] <daveake> If you can't remember the scheme there was no point having one
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:32] <daveake> I just do red=power black=gnd yellow=everything else
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> and then I soldered in the wires, soldered male headers to the other end to have them connectable to the arduino
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> but I have to think about something cause GPS and BMP wires will be all next to each other
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> and the solder is at the end
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> something to insulate them
[20:34] <daveake> insulation works
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:37] <daveake> Suppose I ought to fly this pi tracker sometime
[20:37] <daveake> pi in the sky
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[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, epoxy as insulation?
[21:16] <daveake> where?
[21:18] <eroomde> between computer keyboard and fingers
[21:18] <eroomde> i say go for it
[21:18] <daveake> sounds good
[21:18] <daveake> It's a habit you should adhere to
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> for the cable to pin solder point
[21:22] <daveake> heat shrink
[21:22] <eroomde> don't even think about glue with connectors
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:22] <eroomde> pretend you never had the idea
[21:23] <eroomde> true woe is intermittant contacts due to glue seepage
[21:23] <eroomde> truest of true
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:24] <eroomde> you can get adhesive-lined heatshrink though which is nice
[21:24] <daveake> yep
[21:24] <daveake> got some here recently
[21:24] <eroomde> i use that for anything being exposed to outsideness
[21:25] <daveake> good plan
[21:26] <eroomde> stops moisture from creeping into a backshall of a connector
[21:26] <eroomde> backshell*
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[21:31] <hextic> Greetings all.
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[21:31] <nick_> I screwed up with some heatshrink recently.
[21:31] <nick_> Maded a mess of a soldering iron.
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> heatshrink is applied with a hot-air gun?
[21:31] <nick_> You can use the sides of a soldering iron.
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> Blowtorch works too
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> - passed quickly over the surface repeatedly
[21:32] <nick_> But learn from my fail: make sure it's the heat shrink you're touching, not the black wire next to it.
[21:32] <daveake> You can get small heaters for ~¬10 that take a lighter
[21:33] <daveake> I prefer those to using a soldering iron
[21:33] <daveake> Quicker
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> passed quickly - as in you heat the outside by 40c/pass or so
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> dont talk to me about adhesives
[21:40] <eroomde> got a weller hot air gun
[21:40] <eroomde> now feed me a grape
[21:45] <jcoxon> a grape?
[21:45] <hextic> So, I'm working on a balloon with a robotically stabilizing camera, and I'm running into two issues.
[21:45] <hextic> First, I live on an island. (lol)
[21:46] <hextic> Second, I can't seem to find a serial telemetry module that's going to let me track the thing's state.
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[21:46] <jcoxon> hextic, which island?
[21:46] <hextic> jcoxon: Long Island, in New York.
[21:47] <hextic> All the simulations I run put the thing into the Long Island Sound between here and Connecticut.
[21:47] <jcoxon> i see
[21:47] <jcoxon> yes that'll make it a challenge
[21:48] <jcoxon> hextic, do you have a amateur radio licence?
[21:48] <hextic> I have some training, but no license.
[21:48] <jcoxon> as in the US APRS on 2m is one of the best ways to track balloons
[21:49] <eroomde> hextic: awesome great fascinating
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> silicone is awesome
[21:49] <eroomde> so if you want a telemetry to track the thing's state properly, that implies you dont want to run the stabilisation loop locally?
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> i cant blast 0.25mm silicone film with a propane torch and melt polythene on the other side with no damage to the silicone
[21:50] <eroomde> this is why i like silicon wire
[21:50] <eroomde> at least for high current stuff
[21:50] <hextic> I have a few arduino boards on the balloon that drive servos countering the various tossing and rolling encountered in the upper winds.
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> not so easy to dye silicone tho
[21:51] <eroomde> hextic: so what kind of state do you want to transmit to the ground?
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> im trying a ton of different things and sticking it in the oven at 200C
[21:52] <hextic> A repeating string of current GPS state, a timestamp, altitude as read by altimeter module. If possible I would like to piggyback SSTV, but slow video is not a necessity.
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[21:53] <eroomde> hextic: ok well not to worry
[21:53] <eroomde> this is what everyone sends down and it's not difficult, very much a solved problem
[21:53] <eroomde> as jcoxon said, an amateur radio license makes it very easy
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[21:56] <hextic> Hmm...
[21:57] <jcoxon> otherwise its easy to use the method we use in the UK
[21:57] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[21:59] <hextic> Amazing.
[21:59] <hextic> Any idea what kind of distance I'm going to get from that?
[22:02] <KT5TK_QRL> If you're lucky you'll get 200 miles or more. Depends on your receiving equipment (Antenna!) on the ground
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[22:02] <KT5TK_QRL> The point though is that if only you are listening there are chances that it gets lost.
[22:03] <KT5TK_QRL> So you'll want multiple listeners on the ground really.
[22:03] <DanielRichman> if by "or more" http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records you mean 700km :P
[22:04] <hextic> So basically, predict where it's going to land, dash there, and sit there listening?
[22:04] <jcoxon> but i agree KT5TK_QRL the more listeners the better
[22:04] <DanielRichman> ah you were talking about APRS; I apologise. That'll be less range at higher baud
[22:04] <jcoxon> hextic, depends on where its going to go
[22:04] <KT5TK_QRL> We have several thousand APRS HAM stations permanently listening in the US, so really consider geting a Technical license and do APRS
[22:05] <KT5TK_QRL> Not really so hard anymore. Just some technical basics. No morse code
[22:06] <hextic> Awesome.
[22:07] <KT5TK_QRL> Check out http://aprs.fi for APRS activity in your area,
[22:08] <KT5TK_QRL> This shows you how many automatic stations will help you to recover your balloon
[22:09] <KT5TK_QRL> because they're permanently on 24/7
[22:10] <jcoxon> APRS does work really well
[22:11] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, where abouts in the states are you?
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[22:16] <KT5TK_QRL> I'm in Houston
[22:16] <jcoxon> oh cool
[22:17] <KT5TK_QRL> You'll find me on aprs.fi. I've got an igate and a digi
[22:17] <jcoxon> you you launch with a particular group?
[22:18] <KT5TK_QRL> http://www.w5acm.net/ BLT
[22:18] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[22:18] <jcoxon> you guys are going for china
[22:19] <KT5TK_QRL> :) that were Andy's jokes. But yes, that's us
[22:19] <jcoxon> i'm on your mailing list
[22:19] <jcoxon> with the plan to switch to ISS freq
[22:19] <jcoxon> for mid ocean APRS
[22:20] <KT5TK_QRL> The ISS qsy was actually the only thing that worked on that flight
[22:20] <jcoxon> so we've worked on the same thing
[22:20] <jcoxon> inspired by you guys
[22:20] <KT5TK_QRL> Though ISS didn't hear us.
[22:23] <KT5TK_QRL> So you also try to be frequency agile?
[22:23] <KT5TK_QRL> What TX do you use?
[22:24] <jcoxon> a baofeng uv-3r
[22:24] <jcoxon> we've managed to get plan13 predction code and aprs onto an avr
[22:25] <jcoxon> but the problem is that they've switch the ISS packet to 437.550
[22:25] <jcoxon> which makes life difficult
[22:25] <KT5TK_QRL> cool ! We still used a lookup table
[22:25] <jcoxon> so we are going to fly the code this weekend
[22:25] <jcoxon> but not hte radio
[22:25] <jcoxon> just use our normal tracking stuff
[22:26] <KT5TK_QRL> I also thought about the baofeng but I'm worried that if it goes off it won't switch on by itself when the power comes back up again
[22:27] <jcoxon> that is something to look into
[22:27] <jcoxon> i think we might abandon the iss plan
[22:27] <jcoxon> it might have worked on 2m but on 70cm its so much harder
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon & KT5TK_QRL
[22:27] <jcoxon> having to account for doppler
[22:27] <KT5TK_QRL> well, sure for this summer ISS is out :(
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> sad that they'll only run it till 2020 or so
[22:28] <KT5TK_QRL> doppler calculation shouldn't be difficult if you use plan13
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> what a crap idea
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> build a space station over more than 10 years
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> and deorbit it 8 years later
[22:29] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, need much more control over the radio
[22:29] <KT5TK_QRL> Some of our guys work at NASA. They try their best to give the astronauts good hints.
[22:29] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:29] <jcoxon> the code is on github if you guys want to have a look
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[22:29] <jcoxon> it'll be fun to see if it works and is able to do the predictions
[22:29] <jcoxon> will find out on sunday
[22:30] <KT5TK_QRL> They're working on the APRS issue already but you can never be sure that they'll actually do it.
[22:30] <jcoxon> fair enough
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, Eurus 2 is planned for the atlantic or just "country crossing"
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> didn't get that in the google group
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[22:30] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, we'll see how it goes
[22:30] <jcoxon> first cross the UK
[22:30] <jcoxon> second the ocean
[22:31] <jcoxon> its more to test the valve design
[22:31] <KT5TK_QRL> Which valvs are you trying?
[22:31] <jcoxon> a balloon valve
[22:31] <jcoxon> to see if we can induce a lower float
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and then Eurus 3?
[22:32] <KT5TK_QRL> Is the valve mounted to the neck?
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> btw I mounted the Eurus code and the code by PD3EM together
[22:32] <jcoxon> yup
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and I get no error and navmode 6 and position
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and time
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> is that good?
[22:33] <jcoxon> if it works yes!
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> you said navmode 6 is good?
[22:35] <jcoxon> yeah thats airborne mode
[22:35] <jcoxon> for the ublox gps
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> that I meant
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> and does a SD card need a decoupling capacitor?
[22:35] <jcoxon> shouldnt do
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde said you need that on like one-wire sensors
[22:39] <jcoxon> again i haven't before
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:40] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/7375489486/in/photostream
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[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> wb daveake
[22:47] <KT5TK_QRL> Thanks for the valve video. Very great! Let me know how it works.
[22:48] <jcoxon> we are launching on sunday at 0900 UTC
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[22:48] <KT5TK_QRL> I plan on the same thing but we're still stuck in estimating the volume flow
[22:48] <Broliv> Evening all
[22:48] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, i think we are sort of going for a trial and error approach
[22:49] <jcoxon> having quite wide parameters
[22:49] <jcoxon> what sort of alt would you be looking to float at?
[22:50] <KT5TK_QRL> ~80.000 ft
[22:50] <jcoxon> yeah similar
[22:50] <KT5TK_QRL> at 50 kft it's still very cold
[22:50] <jcoxon> currently around that altitude the winds are blowing east to west
[22:51] <KT5TK_QRL> Another idea would be just at 20kft.
[22:51] <KT5TK_QRL> just above all possible moutain tops
[22:52] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:52] <jcoxon> our plan is to stay well out of air traffic altitudes
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> the google doodle on Alan Turing is awesome
[22:53] <KT5TK_QRL> Yeah, that's why we favor 80 kft too.
[22:54] <KT5TK_QRL> How heavy is your valve/
[22:54] <KT5TK_QRL> ?
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[22:57] <jcoxon> not sure, its been slightly redesigned this week
[22:57] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, we should sign a project info sharing agreement :-)
[22:58] <jcoxon> seems our plans are similar but not 'competing'
[22:59] <KT5TK_QRL> True. I don't mind sharing. It's just a hobby for me.
[22:59] <jcoxon> right sleep time here
[22:59] <jcoxon> hopefully chat soon
[23:00] <jcoxon> night
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[23:01] <KT5TK_QRL> Gn. I have to work a few more minutes then Ill leave my qrl too.
[23:01] <KT5TK_QRL> Tomorrow is ARRL fieldday. Need to help the guys to set up antennas
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[23:05] <daveake> http://i.imgur.com/agWJ6.jpg
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> the google doodle on Alan Turing is awesome
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> !
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[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> who can solve this? http://s.gullipics.com/image/s/j/p/5ztopx-j9i0l3-jmyp/Bildschirmfotovom20120623011902.png
[23:23] <joph> what's that?
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> the google doodle of today
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[23:30] Nick change: Tarrenj_ -> Smrtz
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[23:31] <joph> Lunar_Lander, nice, thanks
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> I think it is cool
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[00:00] --- Sat Jun 23 2012