highaltitude.log.20120617

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[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hnxies4Wtk
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[01:14] <Lunar_Lander> hi mattbrejza
[01:14] <Lunar_Lander> nno sorry
[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> mattltm,
[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[01:25] <G0DJA> Still not finding anyone who is going to the Friedrichshafen Amateur Radio convention ...
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[07:00] <oh7lzb> G0DJA: I'm going
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[07:19] <griffonbot> Received email: MikeB "Re: [UKHAS] Re: HELP with Ublox config"
[07:27] <Upu> morning
[07:27] <Upu> nice day out there now
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[07:33] <jcoxon> morning
[07:34] <Upu> morning
[07:34] <Upu> no change of mind ? Looks nice on there today at ground level :)
[07:37] <number10> morning
[07:37] <jcoxon> number10, whats it looking like
[07:37] <jcoxon> (i'm down in kent)
[07:38] <jcoxon> Upu, nah its too windy
[07:38] <number10> a little windy - gusts realy, bright
[07:38] <Upu> same here
[07:38] <jcoxon> tooo late
[07:39] <jcoxon> maybe next weekend
[07:40] <number10> has been pretty bad weather this spring
[07:41] <jcoxon> the high alt winds will hold for a bit longer
[07:41] <jcoxon> so we'll be able to take advantage of them again
[07:41] <jcoxon> also far to windy for a pico today
[07:41] <jcoxon> i think we are grounded...
[07:46] <number10> nice day for a walk
[07:46] <Upu> there was a met office sonde up at midnight
[07:47] <Upu> no idea where it was as it won't decode for me
[07:50] <number10> has fsphil got some tracking software
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[07:51] <number10> I was just looking at my logs for ANU3 - I dont think I need as much insulation on the camera payloads - never went below 23
[07:53] Action: daveake ponders where the thermometer will go in ANU5
[07:54] <number10> well if we get that balloon you posted in reply to the astro chap....
[07:54] <daveake> that flew right over his head
[07:55] <Upu> I have that software number10 just won't decode
[07:55] <number10> Is it free?
[07:55] <Upu> yep
[07:55] <Upu> http://www.coaa.co.uk/sondemonitor.htm
[07:56] <number10> cheers
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[08:00] <number10> i think some people just dont see humour daveake
[08:00] <daveake> yeah. strange as the same people manage to generate quite a bit themselves.
[08:01] <daveake> I think I'll use a bit less insulation on the next Buzz
[08:01] <daveake> +53C was quite impressive ....
[08:05] <number10> nearly cooked it - you'll need mil spec devices soon
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[08:07] <daveake> :)
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[08:34] <Darkside> https://vimeo.com/channels/projecthorus/44182454
[08:34] <Darkside> guys
[08:34] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[08:34] <Darkside> Project Horus on TV :D
[08:35] <Darkside> also someones UK picture showed up on there too
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[08:38] <Upu> hmm
[08:39] <Upu> thats not australia
[08:39] <Upu> there is green stuff on the ground
[08:39] <Darkside> lol
[08:39] <Upu> I see a Mark
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[08:41] <Darkside> Wil5on has informed my that one of my nuts is visible at 1:20
[08:41] <Darkside> terry doesn't sound very enthusiastic :D
[08:41] <number10> you may want to rephrase that
[08:41] <Darkside> number10: one of my micronuts
[08:41] <number10> :p
[08:41] <Wil5on> lol im still in this channel
[08:41] <Upu> your micro nuts are visible yes
[08:42] <number10> lol
[08:42] <Upu> good video, lucky boogers catching the landing
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[08:42] <Upu> "yeah this capturing the landing always happens"
[08:42] <Darkside> haha
[08:42] <Darkside> they used footage from hejaps of different launches
[08:42] <Upu> yeah
[08:42] <Darkside> they used a LOT of our footage in that video
[08:42] <Upu> was one of the pictures from that Apex flight ?
[08:42] <Darkside> horus 7, 12
[08:42] <Darkside> i think so
[08:43] <Darkside> the one showing the moon
[08:43] <Darkside> my desktop background :P
[08:44] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: #projecthorus featured on Scope, Channel Ten's kids science show! https://t.co/bUNKMdZQ [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/214277247689953280]
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[08:47] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:48] <jcoxon> good work Darkside
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[08:59] <griffonbot> @vk5fsck: RT @darksidelemm: #projecthorus featured on Scope, Channel Ten's kids science show! https://t.co/bUNKMdZQ [http://twitter.com/vk5fsck/status/214281165467697152]
[09:04] <fsphil> hah, great video. although no high altitude shots?
[09:04] <fsphil> they all seem to be <10km
[09:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: HELP with Ublox config"
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[09:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Hibberd "RE: [UKHAS] Re: HELP with Ublox config"
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[10:16] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] IMPORTANT: email problem - please do not click link on
[10:19] <fsphil> the variability of the met office sondes is quite large, some burst at 23km and some at 27km
[10:22] <Upu> another one up ? I just had a look
[10:22] <fsphil> if they launch, it'll be within an hour
[10:22] <fsphil> about 12:15 BST
[10:22] <fsphil> last nights hillsburough one ditched in the sea
[10:23] <Upu> I'll keep an eye out
[10:23] <fsphil> your uberyagi setup will be good at tracking these
[10:24] <Upu> if I can decode them
[10:24] <fsphil> how far are you from the launch site?
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[10:24] <Upu> I've not heard one from the Nottingham site yet
[10:24] <Upu> I think the ones I keep picking up are from down south
[10:24] <SpeedEvil> What's their frequency/
[10:24] <fsphil> ~402MHz
[10:25] <fsphil> what frequency is the one your hearing Upu?
[10:25] <Darkside> they range between 400.5 and 403MHz
[10:26] <Upu> Think it was the Larkhill one
[10:26] <Upu> 404.4
[10:26] <Upu> That said Albemarle is on the same frequency
[10:27] <fsphil> it's not too far
[10:27] <Upu> Nottingham is my best bet
[10:27] <Upu> where do I get the almanac again ?
[10:27] <fsphil> Albemarle is the second nearest one to me I think
[10:28] <fsphil> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=gpsAlmanacs
[10:28] <fsphil> "Current SEM Almanac", the al3 link
[10:29] <Upu> got it thx
[10:29] <Upu> so move it into the log directory
[10:30] <fsphil> it can be anywhere, when you go through the "gps arm" window it asks you for the file
[10:30] <Upu> ok let me put my home location in
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[10:33] <Upu> think thats all done
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[11:16] <JFS1> Hello all - Is anything happening with Eurus or Xaben today?
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[11:16] <jcoxon> JFS1, flight postponed due to high ground winds
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[11:17] <JFS1> Try again next weekend?
[11:17] <jcoxon> possibly
[11:17] <jcoxon> though i fear similar conditions
[11:19] <jcoxon> we'll get there eventually
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[11:47] <cuddykid> sodding weather, it's supposed to be Summer
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[12:17] <fsphil> yay, bacon butties
[12:17] <zamabe> bacons!
[12:18] Action: SpeedEvil ponders bacon buttons.
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> The perfect addition for edible underwear.
[12:20] Action: daveake wakes up
[12:24] <fsphil> oh man that smell
[12:25] <fsphil> glad I'm not a vegetarian
[12:26] Action: SpeedEvil loves the smell of parma in the morning.
[12:26] <fsphil> brb
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> So far this morning, I have eaten one carrot, and two cups of coffee, totalling around 167 calories.
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[12:36] <eroomde> aftnn
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> >1
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[12:41] <eroomde> what has C ever done wrong for people to get so funny about it?
[12:41] <eroomde> there seems to be a lot of guff and confusion of concepts and levels of abstraction in this thread on the mailing list
[12:43] <Hiena> eroomde: The C is too simple. Everybody wants a computer magic.
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[12:47] <Hiena> When 1+1=3 errr 2 and it comes with porgramming language everybody wants: declare variable equale one and declare variable two equale one and variable three magical smoke through the classes and rising some elder fungifeeted GNU god equal variable plus variable two.
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[12:49] <MrScienceMan> what
[12:51] <r2x0t> wtf... that sounds like my nightmare - GNU visual basic
[12:52] <MrScienceMan> visual basic is nightmare fuel for me
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[12:54] <fsphil> visual basic goes deeper than nightmares
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[13:22] <cuddykid> Upu: soldered a temp sensor on without ruining it :D
[13:22] <cuddykid> I'll try out some code now
[13:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: HELP with Ublox config"
[13:24] <fsphil> lol
[13:25] <eroomde> benoxley: ping
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[13:27] <benoxley> hi eroomde
[13:27] <eroomde> yo
[13:27] <benoxley> how are you doing?
[13:27] <eroomde> so i'm trying to make a v accurate pressure sensor to get ambient pressure and delta-p in and out of the balloon
[13:27] <eroomde> so i read your thesis (which is very good, and thanks for sharing it)
[13:28] <benoxley> thanks :)
[13:28] <eroomde> am i right in thinking from that that a 0-1kPa is the sensor range i should be looking at for delat-p?
[13:28] <eroomde> delta*
[13:28] <benoxley> I think so
[13:28] <eroomde> oh also i am fine thanks :)
[13:28] <eroomde> u?
[13:28] <benoxley> not bad
[13:28] <eroomde> wht are you doing now?
[13:29] <benoxley> remaking the project at the moment
[13:29] <benoxley> The peak pressure we encountered with the 350g balloon was around 600Pa
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> which sensor?
[13:29] <benoxley> if I think correctly, this should be smaller for larger balloons
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> also link to thesis?
[13:29] <benoxley> MPXV7002DP
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> makes sense
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> ah
[13:30] <eroomde> assuming the same latex then a simple hoop stress arguement would suggest lower burst pressure with bigger balloon yeah
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> i think honeywell bare bridge should work ok
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> exactly
[13:30] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: you're just quoting what i was saying about 2 days ago ;)
[13:30] <benoxley> Laurenceb_: http://benoxley.co.uk/b/altitude_controller_report.pdf
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> thanx
[13:31] <eroomde> when i made to you the arguement that i specifically didn't want anything clever, just a bare bridge and then conditoning and amplification to my own spec and in my own ovenised box
[13:31] Action: Laurenceb_ has lots of 26pc01smt and 24pc01smt sensors
[13:31] <eroomde> because 'clever' usually makes assumptions that are not in my favour for this specific app
[13:31] <benoxley> sounds interesting
[13:32] <eroomde> i want to be able to have enough resolution to see if the balloon 'bobs' when it floats, for example
[13:32] <eroomde> which might only be like 10Pa amplitude
[13:32] <benoxley> hmm
[13:32] <Darkside> i'm sure it does bob
[13:32] <benoxley> are you not better doing that with an accelerometer?
[13:32] <Darkside> spoke to an atmospheric physics professor about that one
[13:33] <eroomde> probably not if the bobbing has a period of say 5m
[13:33] <benoxley> ah, okay
[13:33] <Darkside> given the period of the altitude fluctiations, he reckons we were seeing a result of the buoyancy
[13:33] <Darkside> not gravity waves
[13:33] <eroomde> yeah
[13:33] <eroomde> so the point of this instrument is to test that
[13:33] <Darkside> ok
[13:34] <benoxley> right
[13:34] <Darkside> 10Pa at that altitude is going to be interesting
[13:34] <eroomde> if you get alt fluctuations without pressure fluctuations, it's a gravity wave
[13:34] <eroomde> in that the balloon is fixed within a moving air mass
[13:34] <Darkside> you're also going to want a dual-freq gps
[13:34] <Darkside> if you want to measure altitude with a reasonably degree of accuracy
[13:34] <eroomde> and if you get the pressure fluctuations with alt fluctuations, that suggests the balloon is moving within the airmass itself - bobbing
[13:35] <Darkside> i'm pretty sure L1 GPS is mroe like +-30m of altitude
[13:36] <eroomde> well, it definitely resolves oscillations as we've seen in the past when the hoywees super-pressure
[13:36] <Darkside> yeah
[13:36] <eroomde> so it's hopefully Good Enough (tm)
[13:36] <Darkside> hehe
[13:36] <Darkside> dual-frequency gps's are too expensive for us really
[13:36] <eroomde> at least to test the hypothesis that if there's a sinusoid in gps alt is there a sinusoid in pressure
[13:36] <Darkside> mm
[13:36] <Darkside> we never tried to correlate the data off horus 15.5 did we
[13:37] <Darkside> the sensor screwed up, but there was still data with a noticable oscillation in it
[13:37] <eroomde> i don't think the pressure sensor was up to it when i looked
[13:37] <eroomde> oh right?
[13:37] <eroomde> oh ok
[13:37] <eroomde> might be worth doing then
[13:37] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/horus15_5_alt_pressure.png
[13:37] <eroomde> so there is a bit of wobble
[13:37] <Darkside> yeah
[13:38] <eroomde> though difficult to be really sure what the sensor was doing at that point
[13:38] <Darkside> yep
[13:38] <Darkside> the error there is likely a result of the code
[13:38] <eroomde> this is partly why i just want a simple bridge and nothing else, so i can actually be sure of the physics
[13:38] <Darkside> next time i need to send raw data down
[13:38] <Darkside> so it can be post-processed
[13:39] <eroomde> yeah
[13:39] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: honeywell do a 176 PC series
[13:39] <eroomde> 'low pressure differential'
[13:39] <eroomde> 0-7" H20 (jesus wept, usa)
[13:40] <eroomde> which translated out of old testment is about 0-1.25kPa
[13:40] <Darkside> haha
[13:40] <eroomde> the price is right too at £40
[13:40] <fsphil> someone at honeywell must have a bet on how many different types of units they use in a single datasheet
[13:41] <eroomde> oh sorry bad translation, 0-1.75kPa
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[13:42] <eroomde> sensiron do 'leaking' low pressure differential, 0.002-100Pa
[13:42] <eroomde> presumably infering dp from mass flow
[13:44] <eroomde> bloody hell
[13:44] <eroomde> so this sensor is £40 in my 09/10 farnell paper catalogue
[13:44] <eroomde> and £100 on their website now
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> yeah - Laurenceb was going on about them a bit back
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> or maybe it wasn't them - but a similar one
[13:50] <benoxley> eroomde: slightly more detailed section
[13:50] <benoxley> http://g.benoxley.com/edEM
[13:50] <eroomde> is that dp vs time?
[13:51] <benoxley> vs packets
[13:51] <eroomde> ok ta
[13:52] <benoxley> Welcome to the raw if you want
[13:52] <eroomde> what sensor did you use?
[13:52] <benoxley> it's not detailed enough to make any proper conclusions
[13:52] <benoxley> MPXV7002DP and the 328s ADC
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[13:54] <eroomde> ok
[13:57] <benoxley> it's also not a great sensor
[13:59] <benoxley> the esp for low temps
[13:59] <benoxley> http://g.benoxley.com/edF6
[13:59] #highaltitude: mode change '+o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:59] #highaltitude: mode change '+v Sunnyday' by eroomde!~ed@kraken.habhub.org
[14:00] <benoxley> major error bars --> http://g.benoxley.com/edFc
[14:00] <Sunnyday> hi
[14:00] <Sunnyday> Thanks for letting me speak
[14:00] <benoxley> hi there
[14:00] <eroomde> i'm not sure why it was not letting you
[14:00] <eroomde> have you been on here before and upset someone?
[14:01] <Sunnyday> Maybe it was something I said about the Dragon not being as impressive as the Shuttle and NASA's broke
[14:01] #highaltitude: mode change '-o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[14:01] <eroomde> you said that on #highaltitude?
[14:01] <eroomde> have you ever called yourself SolarNRG?
[14:01] Action: zamabe runs over eroomde with a tonka
[14:02] <Sunnyday> Yeah
[14:02] <eroomde> oh
[14:02] <eroomde> yes that's why you weren't allowed to speak
[14:02] <benoxley> banhammer?
[14:02] <eroomde> i didn't do it (though have been tempted). consider this a second chance. well reasoned arguements only.
[14:03] <Sunnyday> Perhaps it was a sensitive subject as a lot of NASA employees are without jobs since the cancellation of shuttle. I apologise if I meant any disrespect
[14:04] <eroomde> benoxley: yeah i can see that's a bit quiffy
[14:04] <eroomde> for my pressure sensor i'm going to use a simple bridge, probably a honeywell one
[14:04] <eroomde> put it in an ovenised box
[14:05] <eroomde> drive it with a high precision constant current source (as opposed to voltage) which should add a bit of temp insensitivity anyway
[14:05] <benoxley> sounds nice
[14:05] <eroomde> and use some decent instrumentation amps and a 16 bit adc
[14:05] <benoxley> I'll be looking forward to seeing the result
[14:06] <eroomde> i hope that will do the job. it should certainly have good resolution and SNR
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[14:06] <eroomde> but absolute accuracy will be tricky and require careful calibration
[14:06] <Sunnyday> I have a question regarding high temperature sensing. I'm trying to melt delrin into large gear molds for a parabolic mirror system. I'm using a hot oil bath but I want to keep the temperature a constant 176ºc and none of the shop thermometers go that high. Do you guys have any idea what I can use and where I can get it from?
[14:07] <eroomde> yes Sunnyday
[14:07] <eroomde> there are a bunch of options for that kind of thing
[14:07] <Sunnyday> Go on
[14:07] <eroomde> do you want a simple human-readbale display or are you integrating the temp sensor into a feedback loop?
[14:07] <Sunnyday> The latter
[14:07] <eroomde> ok
[14:08] <eroomde> do you have any constraints on what the controller will accept as an input or are you designing it rom scratch?
[14:08] <Sunnyday> May i share a video to show you what I'm doing?
[14:08] <eroomde> not that they're mutually exclusive
[14:08] <eroomde> yes do
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[14:08] <Sunnyday> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uybdq_JgsRY
[14:09] <eroomde> ok so do you have some kind of feedback to the hob?
[14:10] <Sunnyday> I can be the feedback if necessary, I just want somethign to stick in between the floating stainless bowl containing the delring and the pan with the oil in so I can turn the temperature down to keep the temperature constant
[14:10] <eroomde> ok
[14:10] <Sunnyday> If I had a dedicated oven I would do exactly as you suggested but I only have one oven I also have to cook food on
[14:10] <eroomde> so just a normal theromoucle probe and thermocouple readout will do the trick
[14:10] <eroomde> for example...
[14:11] <eroomde> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/handheld-digital-thermometers/0103433/
[14:12] <Sunnyday> RS are quite pricey and that model is currently out of stock
[14:12] <Sunnyday> But I see what you're on about, does it have some sort of metal probe thing and a wire you can dip in the oil?
[14:12] <eroomde> yes
[14:12] <Sunnyday> Exactly what I'm after
[14:12] <benoxley> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002YUTOXS
[14:13] <eroomde> a normal thermocouple probe - any k-type thermocouple probe should work with any k-type handhelf thermocouple sensor
[14:13] <eroomde> it's a standard connector
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> Sunnyday: An IR sensor may be more convenient
[14:14] <Sunnyday> Will this one be any good: http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=EVNY137XB
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> Sunnyday: are you happy with a readout, or do you need a actual closed loop system?
[14:14] <eroomde> i think that's the same one benoxley just linked to
[14:14] <Sunnyday> Just a readout will be fine for now speedevil
[14:14] <Sunnyday> I'm quite good with arduinos and coding, I understand hysteresis functions
[14:15] <Sunnyday> But I'm happy enough to regulate the temperature myself for now
[14:15] <Sunnyday> If I start going industrial scale I'll probably do several closed loop systems
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> I got http://www.dealextreme.com/p/digital-infrared-thermometer-with-laser-sight-32-c-375-c-26-f-707-f-34257?item=24 - worked well
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> works well
[14:17] <Sunnyday> What's it like on hot liquids?
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[14:18] <SpeedEvil> Then there is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1M-K-Type-Temperature-Controller-Grounded-Thermocouple-Probe-Sensor-5mm-x-50mm-/200768632077?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2ebebe350d
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Temperature-PID-Controller-for-K-Type-Thermocouple-Temp-Sensors-C-220V-/251034843233?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3a72d7b861
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> plus
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> Works well.
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> That particular one, you'd need to modify the pot with a hole in, and screw the thermocouple in.
[14:19] <Sunnyday> Speedevil, do you recommend the IR thermometer over the thermocouple? Does it have a 7 seg display telling you the temp in ºc?
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:19] <Sunnyday> I'll buy t then
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-400C-K-Type-Thermocouple-Sensor-for-Temperature-Controller-/400303425860?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item5d33f18944
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> For example would be an alternative, that you could just stick into a pot
[14:23] <Sunnyday> I'm trying to find a UK supplier of that,
[14:23] <EarthBreeze-Laun> Happy Fathers Day everyone!
[14:23] <Sunnyday> I've had a bad experience with delays, customs charges, delivery
[14:23] <Sunnyday> I only buy from UK based suppleirs now
[14:24] Lunar_Lander (~gd-copern@p54882381.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:24] <cuddykid> ping Upu
[14:24] <Sunnyday> What do you think of this particular model: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000LFTEC4/ref=asc_df_B000LFTEC48361097?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B000LFTEC4
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Infrared-IR-Thermometer-Temperature-Laser-Gun-50-to-380-/320863922381?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item4ab4fae8cd for example
[14:26] <Sunnyday> Better range, better price, thanks speedevil
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't list the sensitivity angle
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> Also - they claim a warranty
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> Which is nice.
[14:28] <Sunnyday> OK I bought it, should be with my soon enough
[14:28] <Sunnyday> I think its a very important bit of kit
[14:28] <Sunnyday> Are there ir sensors that do thousands?
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[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Those are more pyrometers - at thousands - the light is more visible than IR
[14:30] <benoxley> apparently that IR thermometer has a laser power of less than 0.5 MegaWatts
[14:30] <benoxley> probably true, but quite a large range of values there
[14:30] <Sunnyday> I take it this laser is something you DO NOT shine in people's eyes
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[14:31] <benoxley> I'm just being an idiot, it should be 0.5mW
[14:32] <benoxley> which is reasonably safe
[14:32] <Sunnyday> So laser pen
[14:32] <benoxley> less powerful than most laser pens
[14:33] <Sunnyday> So no risk to the human eye whatsoever then
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> I want a half megawatt laser pointer.
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> Something like 1nm-1mm
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[14:34] <benoxley> might skew the temp readings a bit
[14:34] <Sunnyday> Speedevil, that's a giant xray laser you're on about
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[14:34] <SpeedEvil> Sunnyday: Indeed.
[14:34] <Sunnyday> There are hobbiests who have used copper heatsinks to make a 2 watt blue pen
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[14:34] <Sunnyday> blows up tyres and balloons nicely
[14:35] <benoxley> I keep thinking that these aren't bad value
[14:35] <benoxley> http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> I'm sort-of-wondering about making a 10W blue laser soldering iron at some point
[14:35] <Sunnyday> You'd blind yourself quite easily from the reflections
[14:36] <benoxley> SpeedEvil: that would be very cool
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Sunnyday: Not if you only operate it under the proper filter.
[14:36] <Sunnyday> I thought about two cameras and two mini lcd screens that black out everything you see so if the laser does shine in your eyes you're only seeing 2nd hand light from the camera goggles and at worst the camera(s) die not your eye
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> This would not be for handheld work
[14:37] <benoxley> SpeedEvil: does this have much advantage over oven reflow?
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> benoxley: yes.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> benoxley: In that you can in principle solder enamelled copper wire onto a single BGA ball.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> dead-bug.
[14:38] <Sunnyday> neat
[14:38] <benoxley> how would you heat for bga?
[14:38] <benoxley> oh
[14:38] <benoxley> deadbug
[14:38] <Sunnyday> They're using QED lasers now for microprocessors
[14:38] <benoxley> guess you could solder bga if there were open vias underneath
[14:40] <cuddykid> some how I've managed to get ridiculously fast RTTY (so it sounds) from merging my 2 bits of code :P
[14:42] <Upu> you did pick 8Mhz when you programmed it didn't you ?
[14:43] <cuddykid> yup
[14:43] <cuddykid> Pro/Pro Mini 8Mhz 3v3
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> I mean absolutely no PCB.
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[14:46] <SpeedEvil> You feed a cut wire under the laser, hit it with a pulse in an ionising atmospere to burn off the insulation - maybe spray on a little flux, and then reflow the ball, while pressing lightly on it.
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> err
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> inert, not ionising
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[14:48] <cuddykid> that's odd - done another upload now it's working perfectly :D
[14:48] <mclane> Is there someone having a simple design for a lightwight radar reflector?
[14:48] <cuddykid> probably my cheapo chinese knock off ISP programmer
[14:49] <cuddykid> however I've got this random beep every second on the radio
[14:52] <eroomde> mclane: they are completely completely trivially simple
[14:52] <eroomde> they're not really worthy of a publishable design
[14:52] <eroomde> it's just what you used to do with cereal boxes when you are little
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> mclane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corner_reflector
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[15:04] <cuddykid_> hmm - when I just try and transmit "Hello" using my code I'm getting over the decode: HÂllHello»elloËel|oHÂlloHellH1lloHelloHelloHÂlÏoHellHello»
[15:04] <eroomde> is your timing quite right?
[15:04] <fsphil> or number of bits
[15:05] <cuddykid> Well, I think so - I'm using code that I ran before fine
[15:05] <cuddykid> bittage is right :P
[15:06] <cuddykid> ahh, right - it's my shift...
[15:06] <cuddykid> it's over 1000 just
[15:06] <cuddykid> :S
[15:06] <cuddykid> so increasing the filter bandwidth to ~160 makes it work :D
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[15:08] <dodweld> hi
[15:08] <eroomde> hi dodweld
[15:09] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:09] <cuddykid> Hi dodweld :)
[15:09] <cuddykid> woo - my code works :D
[15:09] <fsphil> the sky is looking very thundery
[15:10] <cuddykid> hearing habe loud and clear
[15:10] <fsphil> nice one
[15:10] <cuddykid> and GPS lock indoors! Unbelievable - thanks Upu
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[15:22] <Upu> welcome cuddykid
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[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu Sunnyday mclane benoxley cuddykid eroomde fsphil spacekitteh
[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil
[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[15:25] <Upu> "hi all" will suffice
[15:25] <Upu> the you don't make everyones clients blink
[15:25] Action: Upu pokes Lunar_Lander
[15:26] cuddykid_ (~acudworth@host-78-145-192-92.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:27] <Lunar_Lander> School Dinners in England are a big problem!
[15:28] <Lunar_Lander> so I got a question because there was a comment on the BBC
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[15:28] <cuddykid> #highaltitudedinners
[15:28] <cuddykid> :P
[15:28] <cuddykid> #dinnersataltitude
[15:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:28] <Lunar_Lander> "My worse school dinner was a last sitting with spam fritters, cold mash and tinned tomatoes followed by semolina...only the chocolate haystack was nice! That was 40 years ago and I am still distressed at the horror of it!"
[15:28] <Lunar_Lander> OK spam is that canned meat in that context?
[15:29] <staylo> We're not answering that till you tell us your other theories
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> ok sounds like meat from a can, with cold potatoes and some tomato stuff
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> and haystack may be cake?
[15:32] <cuddykid> hmm, the SD card seems to be causing problems
[15:32] <fsphil> no they actually served hay at school back then
[15:33] <staylo> they only stopped it because of the effect on school choirs
[15:34] <fsphil> too much horsing around
[15:34] <staylo> that's much better
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, staylo OHHHHH
[15:38] <daveake> It was the last straw
[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> :D!
[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, were this the time they showed the public info movies about how dangerous the railway is?
[15:40] <fsphil> when it came to a vote whether they should keep it, they all voted nay
[15:40] <daveake> training videos?
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[15:43] <fsphil> just got that daveake
[15:43] <fsphil> very good
[15:49] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, yeah there was like a movie called "The Finishing Line" which was about how you can die on the railway
[15:54] G0DJA (~chatzilla@88-97-37-189.dsl.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[15:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi G0DJA
[15:56] <Lunar_Lander> I was too late to respond yesterday
[15:56] <Lunar_Lander> I am afraid I can't travel to Lake Constance this year
[15:58] <cuddykid> okies, right, microSD works with example sketch, now trying to get it working with the rest of my code
[16:01] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid, which example sketch do you have?
[16:01] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: one of the SD ones from the SD arduino library
[16:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:03] <Lunar_Lander> do you know what chocolate haystack is?
[16:04] <fsphil> lol
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[16:06] <EarthBreeze> Hello, anyone around?
[16:06] <fsphil> hi EarthBreeze. just us people :)
[16:07] <EarthBreeze> hehehe
[16:07] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: no, never heard of one
[16:07] <cuddykid> been ages since I've programmed in C
[16:07] <fsphil> it's like a bike
[16:07] <cuddykid> silly pointers
[16:08] <fsphil> pointers are not silly
[16:08] <cuddykid> lol
[16:08] <fsphil> they can be used in silly ways :)
[16:08] <Sunnyday> Does anyone have the wiring schematics for diskey?
[16:08] <fsphil> what key?
[16:08] <Sunnyday> I know its ancient and out of date
[16:08] <Sunnyday> The TTL computer inside the LM during Apollo era
[16:08] <fsphil> ah
[16:09] <G0DJA> Hi Lunar_Lander - Sorry was unloading shopping after signed in
[16:09] <cuddykid> woo! SD logger working with my code
[16:09] <cuddykid> just temp sensors then almost ready to roll
[16:09] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid, YAY
[16:09] <Lunar_Lander> G0DJA, no problem
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[16:10] <G0DJA> OK on not being at Friedrichshaven I'll see who I can find when I get there
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[16:11] <fsphil> Sunnyday, DSKY seems to be just the interface
[16:11] <fsphil> a display and keypad
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> G0DJA, were you there in 2010?
[16:14] <G0DJA> No, I went to Dayton in 2010 so couldn't affort two in one year - this will be 1st visit to the German Amateur convension
[16:15] <G0DJA> Any flights take place today? I forgot to check when got back from taking grand daughter back home
[16:16] <fsphil> none
[16:16] <fsphil> eurus was delayed because of high ground winds
[16:16] <G0DJA> Nothing showing on spacenearus apart from HABE that got to 77m by look of it
[16:16] <fsphil> lol
[16:16] <fsphil> habe's in rehab
[16:16] <G0DJA> I did wonder if the WX would be a problem
[16:16] <fsphil> it's lovely here now
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah fsphil those are cookies?
[16:19] <G0DJA> Bit overcast here but no wind at least and no rain for a change!
[16:20] <G0DJA> What happened to HABE? did it have a mishap?
[16:22] <fsphil> it's in testing
[16:22] <fsphil> not ready for launch
[16:25] <cuddykid> might contact my old school and see if they would like to create any "matchbox" experiments that I can send up
[16:26] <cuddykid> give them something interesting to do - this time of the year it usually trails off into random projects
[16:32] <Sunnyday> Yes but all the wires from the DSKY went to valves, rocket thrusters, radar everything, admittedly it didn't have enough memory to map the moons surface with radar but it did try its very best
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah DSKY is the thing with the display and stuff
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> AGC is what you are looking for
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> Apollo Guidance Computer
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Honeywell/HSCMRRN005ND2A3/?qs=%2frfn6KgHYYyzc%2ffQWXOIag%3d%3d
[16:34] Action: Laurenceb_ orders
[16:37] <Laurenceb_> 0.3Pa RMS noise according to datasheet
[16:37] <Laurenceb_> and 14 bit adc
[16:46] <G0DJA> Sunnyday this any use? http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/yaDSKY.html
[16:47] <fsphil> my micro-usb psu just fell apart
[16:48] <fsphil> took it out of the wall socket, and got only half of it
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> hehe the valve controller
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> benoxley: theres something identical on the ukhas wiki
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> tho your is way more pro
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> *yours
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[18:45] <daveake> ping fsphil
[18:47] <fsphil> pong daveake
[18:48] <daveake> Got the ft817 hooked up to the peecee now with a usb cat cable
[18:49] <Upu> that means you can clean your house whilst tracking
[18:49] <Upu> and/or other menial jobs
[18:49] <daveake> Couldn't get it to work via hamlib - kept getting "I/O error", but it seems to be working OK with regCat
[18:49] <daveake> Well, that's a bonus
[18:49] <daveake> :p
[18:49] <fsphil> hmms
[18:50] <Upu> I couldn't get the ICOM-910 at Radio Club working
[18:50] <Upu> it connected fine
[18:50] <daveake> So will it now autotune or is there some extra magic to be done?
[18:50] <fsphil> can you take a screengrab of the hamlib config page daveake
[18:50] <Upu> and could change the frequency but the moment you touched the tune dial on the radio it came up with a comms errro
[18:50] <daveake> Sure, not on the right pc now but I'll do it later
[18:50] <fsphil> r2x0t, another one for ya -- pretty sure it's not a satellite: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/screenshot3.png
[18:51] <daveake> btw went to the local radio rally this morning
[18:51] <Upu> fun ?
[18:51] <daveake> Interesting array of junk :p
[18:51] <Upu> how much crap did you buy ?
[18:51] <daveake> Some of it was old when I got into electronics 30-odd years ago
[18:51] <fsphil> actually it might be a satellite. it's dropped very slightly in frequency
[18:51] <daveake> :)
[18:52] <daveake> Got 2 new 7Ah 12V sealed LA batteries for a fiver
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> you do know they have a shelf life?
[18:53] <daveake> Said "2 year warranty"
[18:53] <Upu> hah
[18:53] <daveake> Anyway, for £5, worrth the risk
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> Check the voltage.
[18:53] <Upu> actually yeah
[18:54] <daveake> 12.94 and 13.00
[18:56] <r2x0t> fsphil: that may also be M2K2 sonde
[18:56] <r2x0t> it uses bursts like this
[18:57] <fsphil> I'm on M2K2 on sondemonitor but nothing is being displayed. could just be too weak though
[18:57] <r2x0t> sondemonitor is totally DEAF
[18:57] <r2x0t> needs huge signal to even display something
[18:57] <fsphil> it's all I have :)
[18:57] <Upu> I agree with that
[18:59] <r2x0t> one day I will reverse the GPS calculations for vaisala sondes and make something better
[18:59] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJVf_CKrFnk <-- M2K2 sonde, sounds exactly like this
[18:59] <fsphil> so you're spot on
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> r2x0t: I will pay you a bounty if you get that working.
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> r2x0t: Or even two bountys.
[18:59] <r2x0t> I already have code for demodulation and CRC checking of frames
[19:00] <Upu> I can also see that Sonde in the UK r2x0t
[19:00] <r2x0t> or anybody here have used any software GPS ?
[19:00] <r2x0t> sonde outputs satellite phases and pseudoranges
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> I've got about halfway through coding a GPS.
[19:00] <fsphil> Upu, it's from Camborne
[19:00] <fsphil> cornwall!
[19:01] <Upu> how do you know that ?
[19:01] <fsphil> http://www.radiosonde.eu/RS02/RS02C.html
[19:01] <fsphil> frequency and mode match
[19:01] <fsphil> click on the green dot near lands end
[19:01] <Upu> ah ok
[19:02] <fsphil> M2K2, 404.2
[19:02] <fsphil> launch at 00Z and 12Z
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[19:02] <fsphil> so this is an unusual time
[19:02] <fsphil> it must be pretty high up if we can both hear it
[19:03] <Upu> over 15km
[19:03] <fsphil> now if only either of us had a steerable yagi :)
[19:03] <Upu> in fairness I can't hear it
[19:03] <Upu> its only visual
[19:03] <Upu> well when "big matt" gets back to me
[19:03] <fsphil> I've got audio, but no decode
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[19:03] <Upu> http://big-marts-brackets.yolasite.com/
[19:03] <Upu> HAM websites <3
[19:04] <fsphil> I dare not click
[19:04] <fsphil> my screen couldn't handle it
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[19:04] <Upu> its not bad actually
[19:04] <fsphil> aah yea
[19:04] <jiffe1> anyone know a cheap usb powered dev board? all I need is a couple analog ins, a couple digital ins, a 5v supply out and usb communication
[19:04] <fsphil> no blinky
[19:04] <fsphil> no harsh colour
[19:04] <fsphil> just untidy
[19:04] <Upu> hi jiffe1 - Arduino ?
[19:05] <fsphil> that's almost perfect arduino territory
[19:05] <Upu> though you may be labelled a lemming :)
[19:05] <r2x0t> 5v arduino mini from ebay
[19:05] <r2x0t> with USB converter and all
[19:05] <Upu> get a 3.3v one
[19:05] <r2x0t> well, he said 5v
[19:05] <Upu> then you don't have to mess about with level conversion circuitry for the GPS
[19:06] <Upu> I know but I'm advising 3.3V :)
[19:06] <r2x0t> sure, 3.3v is much better unless you really NEED 5v
[19:06] <jiffe1> yeah I don't need gps for this though
[19:06] <Upu> oh in that case Arduino
[19:09] <jiffe1> the ones I was looking at looked like they were powered via external source
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[19:40] <daveake> fsphil: hamlib settings and error log - http://i.imgur.com/5Kuej.png
[19:41] <fsphil> ah, imgur is back online
[19:41] <fsphil> COM17?
[19:44] <r2x0t> probably USB<>COM, they use high numbers
[19:44] <fsphil> true
[19:44] <fsphil> I've seen some software have trouble with COM10 or above
[19:44] <fsphil> daveake, if rigcat is working that might do anyway
[19:44] <daveake> Works fine with the rigcat screen tho
[19:45] <fsphil> as long as fldigi can tune the radio, the autotune should work
[19:45] <fsphil> you can test it by clicking outside the set range, it should retune so where you clicked is in the middle
[19:45] <daveake> Cheers. Will try that later (food now)
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[20:26] <Upu> ping cuddykid
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[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> WE WON
[20:58] <MrScienceMan> crank kuf epic film e
[20:58] <MrScienceMan> scenariq e pisnan na absurdni kolichestva narkotici
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> ?
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[21:02] <MrScienceMan> wrong channel
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[21:11] <RocketBoy> hi LL
[21:11] <RocketBoy> \
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> everything OK?
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[21:13] <RocketBoy> yep fine
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> that is good to hear
[21:15] <RocketBoy> what are you working on these days?
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> I made a program based on the EURUS code to read out the ublox data
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> with an arduino
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> and tomorrow I want to try if it really works on the hardware
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[21:22] <RocketBoy> right - goo luck
[21:22] <RocketBoy> good
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> you are using PIC right?
[21:23] <RocketBoy> yep
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> is that very different to programming an arduino?
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[21:27] <RocketBoy> well a little different from what i have seen from arduino code
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> do you need to set the fuses and so on manually?
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I was told that without the arduino bootloader you have a lot more work
[21:40] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: download the atmega 328 datasheet and programming manual
[21:40] <BrainDamage> then try to write a program without using the arduino libs
[21:40] <BrainDamage> that difficulty will be more or less the same as a pic
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[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> oh Great Scott
[21:41] <BrainDamage> why? it's not insanely complicated, many people manage to do it on a daily base
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> do I find it on the ATMEL website?
[21:42] <BrainDamage> yes
[21:42] <Sunnyday> Sometimes writing your own stuff not from libraries can be faster and more efficient for the specific task you have in mind, libraries are designed to give a very broad and general functionality and less time coding. You can also just cut out from Libraries what you don't need to save on memory and response time.
[21:43] <BrainDamage> arduino libs are not the most efficient there
[21:43] <BrainDamage> there's several tricks for instance to toggle io faster than digitalwrite
[21:43] <BrainDamage> but you need to start fiddling at register level
[21:43] <BrainDamage> arduino libs are meant easy to use
[21:44] <BrainDamage> they also shadow most of the functionality of your microcontroller
[21:44] <cuddykid> hi Upu
[21:44] <BrainDamage> for instance, you can reduce the resolution of the SAR ADC to gain a bit of conversion speed, or even use it asyncronously
[21:45] <cuddykid> Upu: I'm off - catch you tomorrow :)
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander> have to do all the interrupts yourself and so on
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> <RisingFury> You mean without Arduino libraries and code base?
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> <RisingFury> People actually do that?
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander> they say that it is common in engineering
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[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> thanks BrainDamage Sunnyday
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> Sunnyday, you are new?
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[22:10] <Sunnyday> New ish
[22:10] <Sunnyday> I was forbidden from speaking on Highaltitude for a long time, but after being very apologetic about my comments about NASA employees losing their jobs eeromode gave me a 2nd chacne
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[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> Sunnyday, ??
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> now I got it
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[22:20] <Sunnyday> I have a strong feeling that when open source electron beam melters come of age it will change everything
[22:21] <Sunnyday> I've been talking to a lot of the reprappers, a lot of them don't like being only able to work with quite toxic plastiscs with relatively low melting points
[22:22] <Sunnyday> It will allow metal 3d printing
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[22:22] <Sunnyday> The possibilities are endless, rocket designs, maybe even a highly complex fusion drive could be 3d printed that no CNC machine or mold cast could possibly make
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:42] <fsphil> so far :)
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[22:42] <fsphil> g'night :)
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[22:54] <daveake> Upu: Now decoding a tracker via ezcap :)
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[22:56] Action: fsphil has been using his to receive Radio 1
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> but its in the middle of the ocean
[22:57] <daveake> I have trackers here as well as in oceans and trees
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> eeek
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> you could be tracking me right now
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> *tinfoil hat*
[22:58] <fsphil> "The hills have eyes, and radios"
[22:58] <jonsowman> and I thought that film couldn't get any worse
[22:59] <fsphil> hah, I've not seen it. that bad huh?
[22:59] <jonsowman> not a fan
[22:59] <jonsowman> lol
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> i liked the bit where someone was handing off a cliff and had both arms chopped off with a chainsaw
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> *hanging
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> but antichrist still wins for most screwed up film ever
[23:08] <Sunnyday> Beddy Byes For Snoozey Poosey Woosey pies!
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[23:46] <r2x0t> anybody here have some script or code that does calculation of AZ/EL from observer position and balloon position ?
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[00:00] --- Mon Jun 18 2012