highaltitude.log.20120613

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[01:53] <smrtz> anyone still here?
[01:53] <Darkside> nope
[01:54] <smrtz> cool, one sec
[01:54] <Darkside> oh dear
[01:54] <smrtz> ok, so, this is my circuit.
[01:54] <smrtz> http://i.imgur.com/aQfhl.jpg
[01:54] <smrtz> Just built it, and realized my mistake.
[01:54] <smrtz> also, sorry, I know I should have used eagle, but paint is easier.
[01:55] <smrtz> anyway, the pins on my arduino, are reversed, as in it goes "BLK" "GND" "VCC"...
[01:56] <Darkside> the BLK pin is also a ground
[01:56] <smrtz> Now I have to flip everything, and I just got off a twelve hour shift.
[01:56] <Darkside> fun
[01:56] <smrtz> yeah, sorry, just kinda mad I didn't read the labels first.
[01:56] <Darkside> i just make my own pcbs :P
[01:57] <smrtz> should do that, but I can't print them.
[01:57] <smrtz> I'm using some perf board.
[01:58] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DSC_5655.jpg
[01:59] <smrtz> wait, where is the arduino on the left one, and the ntx2 on the other two?
[01:59] <Darkside> uhhh
[01:59] <Darkside> the back of th epcb
[01:59] <smrtz> also, those are damn sexy, I wish I was as talented as you.
[02:00] <smrtz> ahh, I should have used both sides..
[02:00] <Darkside> the one on the left is flipped
[02:00] <smrtz> yeah, looks
[02:01] <Darkside> the boards aren't perfect, but htey work
[02:01] <smrtz> what would you change?
[02:01] <Darkside> move to mostly 0805 components
[02:01] <Darkside> so it isn't such a bitch to consturct
[02:01] <smrtz> what?
[02:01] <smrtz> http://imgur.com/HqhKc
[02:02] <smrtz> mine, by the way.
[02:02] <Darkside> smrtz: the SMD size
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[02:02] <smrtz> SMD?
[02:02] <smrtz> ohh
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[02:03] <smrtz> I've normally read it as SMT
[02:03] <Darkside> yeah
[02:03] <Darkside> either or
[02:03] <Darkside> surface mount technology/device
[02:03] <smrtz> I wish I could solder that. I just need more expereince, this is the first project I've done. and I'm waiting on a new tip in the mail.
[02:03] <smrtz> I would wait for it, but theres a due date.
[02:04] <Darkside> ahh
[02:05] <smrtz> yeah.
[02:05] <smrtz> What else have you done?
[02:06] <Darkside> uhmm
[02:06] <Darkside> cutdown pcb stuff
[02:06] <smrtz> cool, as a job?
[02:06] <Darkside> nah
[02:06] <Darkside> well, kind of
[02:06] <Darkside> mainly no
[02:06] <Darkside> this is all hobbys stuff, for project horus
[02:06] <smrtz> yeah, a good one.
[02:07] <Darkside> it would be nice to get paid for this :P
[02:07] <smrtz> yeah, how did you learn this?
[02:08] <Darkside> pcb design was mostly selt taight, but i have a few good friends on the industry who gave me pointers
[02:08] <Darkside> i still go to them for advice on things
[02:09] <smrtz> ahh, nic
[02:09] <smrtz> I love this kinda thing, but I'm really bad at it still, lol
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[02:25] <smrtz> ok, done, now on to programing
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[02:26] <smrtz> in the linking an ntx2 to an arduino guide, it includes util/crc.16.h, where is that?
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[06:46] <eroomde> morning
[06:47] <eroomde> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18401248
[06:48] <eroomde> the animation embedded in the article was done by Doug Ellison, someone who did some flights with us/ukhas in 2008
[06:48] <eroomde> he's at JPL now doing animation
[06:48] <Dan-K2VOL> morning
[06:48] <eroomde> yo Dan-K2VOL
[06:48] <nosebleedkt_> hello !
[06:49] <Dan-K2VOL> very cool eroomde, he sounds familiar
[06:51] <eroomde> his was the flight (nova8) that did those dawn panoramas
[06:52] <eroomde> which interestingly turned up somewhere random the other day
[06:52] <Dan-K2VOL> oh?
[06:52] <eroomde> there
[06:53] <Dan-K2VOL> haha very nice!
[06:53] <Dan-K2VOL> quite the spread
[06:55] <eroomde> it looks quite good i must say
[06:55] <eroomde> might have to get another 3 monitors
[06:55] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[06:57] <eroomde> how are things anyway?
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[07:06] <eroomde> that good huh
[07:08] <SamSilver> The 900kg robot is heading for a touchdown on 6 August (GMT) in a near-equatorial depression on the Red Planet known as Gale Crater.
[07:08] <SamSilver> wonder why they put in the GMT bit
[07:16] <eroomde> it might be 5th august PCT
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[07:19] <SamSilver> ahhh right
[07:20] <SamSilver> moring jcoxon
[07:20] <jcoxon> morning]
[07:20] <UpuWork> morning
[07:21] <UpuWork> I do hope they stream that landing
[07:21] <Darkside> i'm sure they will
[07:26] <jcoxon> what landing?
[07:27] <number10> local weather not looking good (windy) for the weekend jcoxon
[07:27] <Darkside> the new mars rover
[07:27] <jcoxon> number10, i know
[07:27] <jcoxon> its quite frustrating
[07:27] <number10> it is :(
[07:28] <jcoxon> i think we'll plan to launch
[07:28] <jcoxon> and then postpone if its too windy
[07:28] <number10> saturday?
[07:28] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:29] <jcoxon> i'm free the weekend after
[07:29] <jcoxon> so could do it then
[07:29] <number10> I'll take up your off and pop over and help if you still need any
[07:29] <number10> offer
[07:29] <jcoxon> that would be great
[07:30] <jcoxon> we can fill in the barn which will help
[07:31] <jcoxon> just a matter of launching
[07:31] <number10> great - looking forward to it
[07:32] <jcoxon> i think we'll launch relatively early
[07:32] <jcoxon> say 1030-1100
[07:32] <number10> OK - thats fine
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[07:49] <fsphil> early launch is a good idea if it's going to be moving slowly
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[08:06] <UpuWork> How long was Apex III in the sea for >
[08:06] <UpuWork> ?
[08:19] <eroomde> jonsowman: just bought an elonics dongle
[08:19] <eroomde> this brave new world looks like too much fun
[08:27] <fsphil> it's neat being able to see the entire 2m band, then depressing to see there's nothing at all there
[08:29] <gonzo__> 70cm is even more desolate
[08:32] <eroomde> perfect
[08:32] <eroomde> room for me to play
[08:32] <eroomde> its more that i want something that will let me experiment quickly
[08:33] <eroomde> eg finally getting round to a working implementation of this bayesian demodulation thing i tried
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[08:54] <Darkside> eroomde: i've got a preamp and filter pcb almost done for those
[08:54] <Darkside> SAW filter and a LNA
[08:54] <Darkside> ends up with a noise figure around 2.5dB and 20dB gain
[08:59] <Darkside> hmm
[08:59] <Darkside> need to work out how the gnuradio gmsk demodulator stuff works
[09:00] <fsphil> the filter loss is nowhere near the loss the dongles have from overloading
[09:04] <jonsowman> eroomde: cool
[09:04] <jonsowman> which one did you go for?
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[09:04] <jonsowman> not that i makes any difference really
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[09:16] <gonzo__> what was the outcome for POP/ASTRA yesterday?
[09:16] <gonzo__> recovered?
[09:17] <jonsowman> yep
[09:17] <jonsowman> near newmarket
[09:18] <gonzo__> any clues as to the very odd gps it had at landing?
[09:20] <jonsowman> not really
[09:28] <jcoxon> does gnuradio work with a fcd then?
[09:28] <jonsowman> yes
[09:28] <jonsowman> there's a funcube source block
[09:29] <jcoxon> is there any use playing with it?
[09:29] <jonsowman> it is very flexible
[09:30] <jcoxon> i see
[09:30] <jonsowman> if you want to do something that other programs can't
[09:30] <jcoxon> is it a processor hog?
[09:30] <jonsowman> not too bad
[09:30] <jonsowman> the UI elements use quite a lot
[09:30] <jonsowman> waterfalls and FFTs and such
[09:31] <eroomde> jonsowman: Ez(somethingblah)668
[09:31] <jonsowman> eroomde: yep same
[09:32] <eroomde> quite excited at the prospect
[09:32] <eroomde> i wonder if longer term you could lash a bunch of them to the same clock source and have a go at a super resolution direction finding thing
[09:33] <jcoxon> eroomde, you going to use on mac?
[09:33] <jonsowman> eroomde: i don't see why not
[09:34] <eroomde> jcoxon: probs ubuntu
[09:34] <jcoxon> oh fair enough
[09:34] <jcoxon> (https://github.com/titanous/homebrew-gnuradio) for mac
[09:34] <eroomde> ok cool
[09:34] <eroomde> could be useful if i go mobile
[09:35] <eroomde> i had a look at the new mac pro video thing this morning, they had lots of shots of the pcbs
[09:35] <eroomde> it seems black is the new black
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[09:35] <eroomde> even all the passives are black
[09:37] <eroomde> http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/wjQEMuXtw61X1ZHI.large
[09:38] <eroomde> incidently i thing a lot of those tantalum caps to the right of that big grey inductor next to the Warning triangle are the Sanyo POSCAP range
[09:38] <eroomde> theyre really really very good
[09:38] <eroomde> amazingly low ESRs and capacities, you often get in a B case what Kemet will do in a C or D case
[09:39] <eroomde> they're just the jizzle for efficient SMPS implementations
[09:40] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:41] <jcoxon> i was actually thinking of getting an imac when i move back to london
[09:41] <eroomde> pah, go retinal in yo display
[09:41] <jonsowman> shame there's not a 13" mbp with retina display
[09:42] <eroomde> i wouldn't buy new not-retinal hardware now
[09:42] <jonsowman> in theory, same, but I don't want a 15"
[09:42] <eroomde> yeah
[09:42] <eroomde> i'm just going to stick with my mba until i can get a retinal mba with aTB ssd in maybe 3 or 4 years
[09:42] <jonsowman> yeah
[09:42] <eroomde> for not silly money
[09:42] <jonsowman> my mbp should last another 2-3 years
[09:43] <jonsowman> i put an SSD in it recently
[09:43] <jonsowman> so much faster :)
[09:43] <eroomde> but yeah, the retinal (i don;t like the word but you know what i mean) font rendering just makes such a difference
[09:43] <eroomde> my ipad is the best machien i have for reading pdfs and webpages now
[09:43] <jonsowman> i can imagine
[09:43] <eroomde> so if you're going to be coding all day long, it's a joy
[09:43] <jonsowman> yeah
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[09:44] <eroomde> but there'll be a painful period for about 18 months now probably where everyone plays catch-up and there is no standard dpi-agnostic rendering thing for apps and they'll be bodgy oversampling cludges for a while and things will look ugly
[09:45] <jonsowman> i think that's fairly likely
[09:45] <eroomde> and then things will be cheap and stuff will work
[09:45] <jonsowman> then i can try and not let myself buy one
[09:46] <eroomde> :)
[09:46] <jonsowman> we'll see how that goes
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[09:47] <eroomde> all that said the most producive coding ive done in the last 2 years by a mile was on the airship which was on the pc104 stack board directly, through vga to a shitty old 15" lcd with a handle that we could pack as luggage, running arch without a gui
[09:47] <eroomde> just screen running vim and a terminal
[09:47] <eroomde> in a random old shed in the alps
[09:47] <jonsowman> :D
[09:48] <eroomde> i think the lack of internet connection was the reason
[09:48] <jonsowman> yeah
[09:48] <jonsowman> not having distractions like irc does tend to increase productivity
[09:48] <eroomde> tell me about it :~
[09:48] <jonsowman> on the other hand i'm perfectly capable of just finding something else to distract me
[09:49] <eroomde> te thought of dinner at the hotel that evening was quite distracting on that trip
[09:49] <jonsowman> haha
[09:49] <eroomde> cheese fondue to start, followed by steak, followed by a cheese board
[09:49] <eroomde> it's the way to do it
[09:50] <jonsowman> sounds pretty good
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[09:56] <The-Compiler> eroomde: sounds like Switzerland :p
[09:57] <eroomde> yep!
[09:57] <The-Compiler> (I'm from there, so I can use stereotypes :D)
[09:57] <eroomde> optimised for people whove been skiing all day
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[10:11] <bambi> UpuWork > good day
[10:12] <bambi> er anyone here?
[10:12] <eroomde> pretending to work
[10:12] <jonsowman> shamelessly not working
[10:12] <bambi> ah *smiles*
[10:12] <fsphil> working
[10:12] <fsphil> oh
[10:12] <fsphil> was
[10:12] <daveake> actually working
[10:13] <daveake> er
[10:13] <daveake> was
[10:13] <jcoxon> i'm not working
[10:13] <bambi> sorry to disturb you
[10:13] <jonsowman> jcoxon: you got some days off at the mo?
[10:13] <bambi> I have a question about balloon size...
[10:13] <jonsowman> bambi: go ahead
[10:13] <eroomde> you've snapped us all out of it babmbi
[10:13] <eroomde> this had better be good
[10:13] <jcoxon> nah i'm on late shifts
[10:13] <jonsowman> ah ok
[10:14] <jcoxon> 1-9
[10:14] <fsphil> the quiet hours?
[10:14] <daveake> so long as it's not "how big a balloon do I need for my tracker made from a rack of PC104 cards", it's fine
[10:14] <jcoxon> as in 1300 - 2100
[10:14] <jcoxon> no they are never quiet
[10:14] <bambi> one of the restrictions here in Australia to be classified as a 'light' balloon is that the balloon itself must nit get bigger than 2m diameter I have found out.
[10:14] <fsphil> daveake: you forgot the valves
[10:15] <jcoxon> mornings are quiet - people haven't yet realised they are unwell
[10:15] <daveake> true
[10:15] <fsphil> lol
[10:15] <jcoxon> bambi, are you sure?
[10:15] <bambi> is 2m max size a practical size for a launch
[10:15] <fsphil> not a latex launch
[10:16] <fsphil> as they expand as the pressure drops
[10:16] <fsphil> what does being a light balloon get you?
[10:16] <eroomde> maybe 'light' means 'don;t need to tell anyone'
[10:16] <bambi> well I have looked at some ballon specs and if I am reading them correctly a burst size of 2m will lift a payload of 1kg?
[10:17] <jonsowman> that doesn't sound right
[10:17] <daveake> no chance
[10:17] <eroomde> but you definitely want to be in the camp above that, launching normal weather balloons (which can get to maybe 12m dia at altitude)
[10:17] <jonsowman> bambi: it's worth getting permission for the larger balloons
[10:17] <jonsowman> especially if you want to life ~1kg
[10:17] <jonsowman> *lift
[10:18] <fsphil> <=2m balloons we've found to be very tricky
[10:18] <fsphil> (foil balloons)
[10:18] <bambi> oh... in that case it is classified as a 'medium' balloon and requires radar reflector 2 ways of ending the flight as well as some special communication it seems
[10:18] <daveake> is that for Oz or USA?
[10:18] <bambi> Australia
[10:19] <fsphil> doesn't sound right either
[10:19] <daveake> OK, sounded like the USA rules
[10:19] <jonsowman> yeah that does sound like FAA regs
[10:19] <eroomde> seeeed studio now do black solder mask
[10:19] <eroomde> as of yesterday
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[10:19] <eroomde> waheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[10:19] <jonsowman> eroomde: huh, weird
[10:19] <jonsowman> they did it for ages
[10:19] <jonsowman> then stopped
[10:19] <jonsowman> and have now started again
[10:19] <jonsowman> meanwhile itead studio have done black the entire time
[10:20] <bambi> I have the official regs as I am in communication with CASA (Cival Aviation Safety Australia)
[10:20] <eroomde> itead?
[10:20] <bambi> OK I will have to have a rethink then
[10:20] <jcoxon> bambi, you need to talk to Terry or Darkside
[10:20] <jonsowman> eroomde: http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php?cPath=19_20
[10:20] <jcoxon> they've launched 23 balloons in Oz
[10:20] <jonsowman> they use the same fab house as seeed
[10:20] <bambi> so at 35,000m the balloon can get to about 12m?
[10:20] <jonsowman> it's basically the same service in all important respects
[10:20] <jcoxon> bambi, yeah
[10:20] <jonsowman> i just go for whichever is cheaper
[10:20] <bambi> OK thank you
[10:21] <jonsowman> (or until now, itead if i wanted black mask"
[10:21] <jonsowman> )
[10:21] <eroomde> uhuh
[10:21] <eroomde> good to know, thanks
[10:21] <eroomde> right i really must get achieving
[10:21] <eroomde> ttfn
[10:21] <fsphil> mmm black pcb
[10:21] <jonsowman> see you :D
[10:22] <bambi> yes well the Adeliade group are busy or perhaps not so into sharing information it seems - could be a state rilvery issue who knows... *smiles*
[10:22] <jcoxon> bambi, we can kick them for you
[10:22] <jcoxon> they'll share
[10:22] Action: jcoxon kicks Darkside
[10:22] <bambi> any kicking would be appreciated (lightly of course) *smiles*
[10:23] Action: jcoxon then kicks juxta
[10:23] <daveake> lightly? don't spoil the fun...
[10:28] <bambi> Ok thank you fro the balloon size info - I will do some rethinking and contact CASA again tomorrow.
[10:28] <bambi> byes for now...
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[10:31] <UpuWork> oh hi
[10:31] <UpuWork> and bye
[10:31] <UpuWork> missed her
[10:32] <UpuWork> Is the Er of Seeed PCB ~ 4.2 ? does anyone know ?
[10:32] <eroomde> Er?
[10:32] <Darkside> i think so
[10:32] <jonsowman> epsilon r
[10:32] <eroomde> oh
[10:32] <Darkside> jut assume standard FR4
[10:32] <eroomde> the pcb material itself
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[10:33] <eroomde> i think it's just vanilla fr4
[10:33] <eroomde> too slow again
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[10:33] <UpuWork> yeah epsilon R sorry don't know the alt code for that one
[10:34] <UpuWork> 4.2
[10:34] <UpuWork> thanks
[10:37] <jcoxon> Darkside, is bambi reading hte wrong CASA regs?
[10:40] <Darkside> how do you mean
[10:40] <Darkside> the 4kg limit is correct
[10:41] <Darkside> but he still needs to get a launch site authorised with casa
[10:41] <Darkside> and has to issue a notam
[10:41] <UpuWork> she
[10:41] <Darkside> yes
[10:41] <Darkside> she
[10:41] <Darkside> wait
[10:41] <Darkside> she?
[10:41] <Darkside> thats new
[10:41] <UpuWork> yeah I know wierd isn't it
[10:41] <jcoxon> the part about 2m max diameter
[10:42] <Darkside> uh
[10:42] <Darkside> yeah actually, i think thats correct
[10:42] <Darkside> but it doesn't many any sense
[10:42] <Darkside> i think we just ignore that part >_>
[10:43] <UpuWork> yeah female "The irc chat was different, lovely courier font <rolls her eyes> "
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[10:51] <chris_99> i could easily fill a nitrogen tank with helium couldn't i?
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[10:53] <jcoxon> http://www.inbloon.com/en/index.php
[10:53] <UpuWork> The ticket price is ¬110000
[10:54] <UpuWork> hope they don't use Hwoyee's
[10:55] <jcoxon> the He will be expensive
[10:58] <eroomde> zero emissions
[10:58] <eroomde> jesus
[10:58] <MrScienceMan> their font choice is terrible
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[11:02] <chris_99> what about it popping?
[11:02] <eroomde> it won't
[11:03] <chris_99> why not? how do they stop it going too high
[11:04] <chris_99> is it like a blimp
[11:05] <eroomde> jonsowman: itead are great looking
[11:06] <eroomde> quite a bit cheaper than seedstudio for what i'm looking at
[11:06] <eroomde> infact half price
[11:07] <jonsowman> eroomde: yeah
[11:07] <jonsowman> it does vary a bit but often itead are cheaper
[11:09] <jonsowman> eroomde: http://imgur.com/TInAK this was itead
[11:10] <eroomde> text looks gash in an example i just saw but looks fine on that - i think maybe the gash one didn't tick-box for vector text in eagle
[11:10] <jonsowman> i've not had a problem with text with them
[11:11] <jonsowman> once the imported bitmap image didn't come out very well, but they said that was a manufacturing fault and re-did the boards for free
[11:12] <eroomde> gash example: https://github.com/dren-dk/HAL900/wiki/dc-pcb-4.0.jpeg
[11:12] <jonsowman> yeah i see what you mean
[11:13] <jonsowman> no i've never had anything like that
[11:13] <eroomde> cool
[11:13] <eroomde> well i shall try them for hedgehog v2
[11:13] <jonsowman> :)
[11:14] <eroomde> can't go wrong for £20. 8 x 5 x 10cm boards, black soldermask and enig and 100% e-test
[11:14] <jonsowman> yep
[11:14] <jonsowman> amazingly cheap
[11:14] <jonsowman> i was surprised that enig is only an extra $10
[11:15] <eroomde> All: reading the SL1202 hardware integration manual, i notice the strongly recommend in capitalised letters putting a blob of epoxy where the antenna is solderd to the pcb, in that little cove formed by the ceramicy support
[11:15] <eroomde> they*
[11:17] <eroomde> i googled 'sarantel pth' and the first hit has 'sarantel on <b>path to healthy</b> profits'
[11:17] <jonsowman> lol
[11:17] <eroomde> f*ck google and their stupid attempts to second guess you
[11:18] <jonsowman> you mean that's not what you were looking for?
[11:18] <eroomde> i've noticed this a lot recently, the SNR of their results is going back down since they've started trying to out-wit me
[11:18] <eroomde> why does no one on this channel work for google
[11:18] <eroomde> i need to ent
[11:18] <eroomde> vent
[11:18] <jonsowman> haha
[11:25] <daveake> yeah, google UKHAS and you get a load of "UK Has ...." rubbish
[11:25] <gonzo__> use speech marks
[11:26] <daveake> Dear Google, I can spell and my space bar does work
[11:26] <daveake> sure, but shouldn't need to
[11:26] <eroomde> agreed
[11:26] <fsphil> I wish they'd not got rid of the + keyword
[11:26] <daveake> +1
[11:26] <eroomde> maybe duck duck go is the thing
[11:26] <gonzo__> it's a ploy to get mnore hits on sponsored sites
[11:26] <fsphil> to force a term to be always present
[11:26] <russss> quote it
[11:27] <fsphil> duck duck would be great if they'd pick a better name
[11:27] <russss> that works the same as using +
[11:27] <fsphil> quoting it is more work
[11:27] <eroomde> 11:25 < gonzo__> use speech marks
[11:27] <fsphil> and the - symbol still works
[11:27] <gonzo__> probably the most useful
[11:28] <eroomde> ah a place i used to work someone was searching for 12" rocket tube
[11:28] <eroomde> he got a shock
[11:28] <gonzo__> so: -"all the advertising that is totally unrelated to my search"
[11:28] <daveake> lol
[11:28] <eroomde> 12" rocket tube -cock < produced better results
[11:28] <gonzo__> hehe I can bet
[11:28] <daveake> :D
[11:29] <gonzo__> I was looking for some torrents for the UK comedy series "bottom". You can guess what returns that gave! ugh
[11:29] <daveake> I've told this before, but even typing in what you think is the correct URL can get you into trouble ... I wanted to see prices at the local electrical store "power station", but (at the time) the obvious URL was far from what I expected ....
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[11:30] <eroomde> oh god my downloads folder
[11:30] <fsphil> worse or better than mine? :)
[11:31] <eroomde> it's heaving
[11:31] <fsphil> 2.47 GB here
[11:31] <eroomde> and because i just redownload datasheets the whole time it's full of foo.pdf and foo (1).pdf
[11:31] <fsphil> that's after I cleaned it out
[11:31] <fsphil> yep
[11:31] <fsphil> if they'd name datasheets properly we'd not need to download them so often
[11:32] <eroomde> ls *\([0-9]\)* is an eye opener in itself
[11:32] <eroomde> about 1gb just there
[11:33] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:33] <Laurenceb> i set my downloads folder to wipe old stuff
[11:34] <Laurenceb> protip _never_ _ever_ use pcbtrain
[11:34] <eroomde> used to quite a lot
[11:34] <eroomde> back when we needed 4-layer pcbs in <5days
[11:34] <Laurenceb> they emailed me today to say the reason my boards are late is they accidentally deleted my gerbers
[11:34] <eroomde> lol
[11:35] <Laurenceb> which is nice, if they had emailed me 2 weeks ago it might have been more sensible
[11:35] <Laurenceb> i was expecting pcbs on monday
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[11:40] <Laurenceb> arggg why is everyone so incompetent
[11:43] <Laurenceb> i open my email and its like a long list of idiocy
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[12:00] <UpuWork> Darkside are you awake ?
[12:04] <UpuWork> never mind
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[12:11] <Darkside> UpuWork: wat
[12:14] <UpuWork> was about the regulations
[12:14] <UpuWork> and ignoring the 2 meter limit
[12:14] <Darkside> yeah
[12:15] <Darkside> the regulations are stupid in that regard
[12:15] <UpuWork> lol
[12:15] <Darkside> we're pretty sure the regulations mean a 2m max diameter at any point in the flight
[12:15] <Darkside> which isn't possible
[12:15] <UpuWork> medium balloon means a free balloon that:
[12:15] <UpuWork> (a) may be more than 2 metres in diameter at some time in its flight; and
[12:15] <Darkside> and i'm pretty sure casa know that
[12:15] <UpuWork> (b) is capable of carrying more than 4 kilograms, but no more than 6 kilograms, of payload.
[12:15] <Darkside> medium balloons are a whole different kettle of fish
[12:15] <Darkside> they need ADS-B and all sorts of shit
[12:15] <Darkside> i think
[12:15] <UpuWork> yeah thats the issue i think
[12:16] <Darkside> afaik all this has been sorted out
[12:16] <Darkside> and is being fixed
[12:16] <UpuWork> the light balloon however does say is no more than 2 metres in diameter at any time during its flight;
[12:16] <UpuWork> ok
[12:16] <UpuWork> can you let Bambi know if she turns up here
[12:16] <Darkside> sure..
[12:16] <UpuWork> or you can respond to this mail from here if you want
[12:17] <Darkside> mail?
[12:17] <UpuWork> e-mail
[12:17] <Darkside> i'm not posting anything about casa regs to the mailing list
[12:17] <UpuWork> no its a private mail
[12:17] <Darkside> oh
[12:17] <Darkside> i'd need to check with terry
[12:17] <UpuWork> or point her that way
[12:17] <UpuWork> thanks
[12:18] <Darkside> forward me the email anyway
[12:18] <Darkside> and i'll send it into terry
[12:18] <UpuWork> tis done
[12:21] <UpuWork> fsphil I finally got some of those power plugs , only 10 mind, do you need any ?
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[12:30] <fsphil> I'll check when I get home UpuWork
[12:30] <jonsowman> soldering time \o/
[12:31] <fsphil> already?
[12:31] <jonsowman> is it too early?
[12:33] <fsphil> never too early for soldering
[12:33] <jonsowman> haha
[12:33] <fsphil> I thought you'd only just ordered the boards
[12:33] <jonsowman> ah i see
[12:34] <jonsowman> no these are some i've been waiting to solder up for months
[12:34] <jonsowman> haven't had time
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[12:45] <WillDuckworth> jonsowman - was it spirit circuits that do that free pcb thing? what file format did you send them?
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[13:02] <eroomde> rasp pi arrived
[13:02] <WillDuckworth> ooo goody
[13:02] <eroomde> with instruction to not expose it to ANY sources of heat
[13:03] <eroomde> to which my inner nasal voice made a comment about having to use it in the most remote part of the universe
[13:05] <daveake> :D
[13:06] <daveake> And if you manage to do that, and plug it in to some power ....
[13:09] <jonsowman> my solder paste says that flux can cause asthsma and to therefore wear safety glasses
[13:09] <jonsowman> :\
[13:10] <daveake> Yes, I'm sure that would help :)
[13:10] <daveake> My netbook car windscreen mount says "Now you can use your netbook whilst driving"
[13:10] <gonzo__> there were some silly, but real safety data sheets I saw recently. The best one was for compressed air
[13:10] <gonzo__> hehe, could you sue thwm
[13:11] <nick_> I'm hoping to make my RPi obsolete in the next few days.
[13:11] <gonzo__> (didn't someon e do that to winebago a while ago. To do with crius control?)
[13:12] <nick_> (by hooking up an sd card and ethernet to my mbed)
[13:14] <daveake> No doubt 'shopped, but funny anyway . http://i.imgur.com/7jwZA.jpg
[13:21] <gonzo__> last week had someone write their phone number on their mobile phone, because they kept putting it down and forgetting it. I suggested that it may be better to put their desk number on there, but they said that the mobile number was more sensible because they are rarely at their desk. I left them to it......
[13:22] <daveake> lol
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[13:42] <nick_> Apparently my uni is scared of PoE
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[13:49] <fsphil> none of my stuffs does poe sadly
[13:49] <fsphil> it would be handy
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[13:50] <fsphil> it's quite lossy though, I run power through some cat5 for led lights and there's a fair voltage drop
[13:53] <russss> yeah PoE has to cope with (iirc) at least 6W per port being dissipated in cabling
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[13:55] <nick_> This is what scares the uni.
[13:55] <nick_> They worry we'll try to power a lot of things and melt all the cabling.
[13:58] <fsphil> I imagine the watts/meter is quite low
[13:59] <nick_> I think their fears are not fully worked out.
[13:59] <russss> with 802.3a type 2 (which is high-power PoE), the maximum loss is 8.7W
[14:00] <russss> and that's at the maximum possible length which is 100m
[14:00] <nick_> The network guy I asked thought it was stupid, but he doesn't make the decisions.
[14:00] <russss> so 87mW/m
[14:00] <nick_> It basically just puts a limit on how many cables you can bundle.
[14:00] <russss> which does not strike me as too much, even if you have a bundle of 50 cables
[14:00] <nick_> Although I have seen their bundling in various places.
[14:01] <nick_> They bundle a lot of cables.
[14:01] <nick_> At some point they went kinda crazy and put a million ethernet ports around the place.
[14:02] <nick_> Most desks in my office have access to 4 ports
[14:12] <Laurenceb> when i was in DWB they used thin clients
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[14:15] <gonzo__> my house is getting silly, pulled two 1000ft boxes of cable throug
[14:15] <gonzo__> plus all the coax and other multi
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[14:18] <Laurenceb> and a solaris admin who worked in the level2 basement
[14:18] <Laurenceb> wore pink venvet suits carried a cane and drove a harley davison
[14:19] <Laurenceb> dont know if hes still there
[14:29] <UpuWork> Oh woo Seeed are doing black PCBs now :)
[14:29] <nick_> Laurenceb: I don't use any of our machines, they give everyone windows boxes.
[14:29] <nick_> I just use a personal laptop.
[14:30] <UpuWork> oh and 0.6mm PCB
[14:30] <nick_> UpuWork: seeed did your gps boards?
[14:30] <UpuWork> yeah
[14:30] <nick_> Have you had any made in the UK?
[14:31] <Laurenceb> windows?!
[14:31] <nick_> Yeah... :(
[14:31] <UpuWork> nick_ no
[14:31] <UpuWork> Would love too but price wise they are 10x the price of Seeed
[14:32] <nick_> I was talking to one of our electical experts the other week about making up pcbs
[14:32] <UpuWork> 0.6mm board is a nice option makes the strip line slightly thinner
[14:32] <nick_> And he said he used some company based in reading but I fogot who.
[14:32] <nick_> What is the turnaround time for seeed?
[14:32] <UpuWork> 2-3 days to make and on average 9 to get here
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[14:33] <UpuWork> $14 for 10 5x5 boards delivered
[14:33] <nick_> Oh, that's much faster than I would assume
[14:34] <UpuWork> in green
[14:34] <nick_> I somewhat regularly get stuff sent from the US and it seems unpredictable and slow at best.
[14:36] <UpuWork> PCB Snap for 10 x 5x5 boards = £106
[14:37] <nick_> What's the finish like on the boards?
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[14:38] <UpuWork> pretty good I've yet to have any issues
[14:38] <UpuWork> untouchable for the cost
[14:39] <UpuWork> makes prototyping on PCB viable
[14:39] <nick_> And the cost includes shipping?
[14:39] <UpuWork> yeah
[14:40] <nick_> Can you give me the url of your pics again?
[14:40] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/WqOZa.jpg
[14:41] <UpuWork> thats the best one I have of a PCB
[14:41] <nick_> That's 2 laywer with holes and vias?
[14:41] <UpuWork> yep
[14:41] <UpuWork> NTX2 on the rear
[14:42] <nick_> I might give them a go (unless I can get some free work done in department, although I can't get free vias)
[14:42] <WillDuckworth> has it gone up yet Upu?
[14:42] <UpuWork> not that one no WillDuckworth
[14:42] <WillDuckworth> oooo - anticipation
[14:43] <WillDuckworth> when?
[14:43] <UpuWork> though a µAva hardware is going up this weekend I think
[14:43] <UpuWork> Jcoxon's code on it
[14:43] <nick_> Any idea what the colouring cost is based on?
[14:43] <number10> ooo - news!
[14:43] <WillDuckworth> cool
[14:43] <UpuWork> $10 for all colours apart from black which is $20
[14:43] <number10> is that going up on eurus UpuWork
[14:44] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0517_resize.JPG
[14:44] <UpuWork> that one
[14:44] <UpuWork> less the power connector
[14:45] <nick_> I wonder how they do the colour setup, whether that's the cost issue.
[14:45] <nick_> Having to group together boards of the same colour.
[14:45] <UpuWork> I always assumed it was just the board
[14:46] <nick_> But it's weird that it's a set cost to change colour, no matter the size or quantity
[14:46] <UpuWork> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185
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[15:06] <Elwell> I'm trying to setup the shack at the radio club for tracking -- I'll make a 'dummy' payload to leave on the roof of a building to test - what's the TX chipset of choice for flying with these days - still the ntx2 or are people moving to RFM22Bs?
[15:06] <russss> NuSTAR launch on a Pegasus, T-53mins: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nasa-ksc
[15:09] <fsphil> ntx2 for simplicity
[15:10] <fsphil> rfm22b is more flexable, but also a bit tricksy
[15:10] <Elwell> any recommended suppliers (farnell?)
[15:11] <Elwell> ah no stock for them
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[15:19] <Laurenceb> mouser stock the si4432
[15:19] <Laurenceb> just roll your own pcb
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[15:20] <BrainDamage> ah, so that's why you want flexible pcb, so you can roll them
[15:21] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:26] <UpuWork> Elwell
[15:27] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=71_63
[15:27] <UpuWork> and pm me
[15:32] <fsphil> ^^ yea get them there
[15:33] <fsphil> one of our sales guys just left in his laptop that was "just a little slow"
[15:33] <fsphil> it's got about 15 search bars in IE
[15:33] <fsphil> it took up half the screen
[15:34] <WillDuckworth> they shouldn't be allowed them
[15:35] <fsphil> laptops? I agree :)
[15:35] <fsphil> what I don't get is that the search bars where not bothering him, just the slow down
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[15:36] <jonsowman> board one soldered
[15:36] <jonsowman> one bridge on avr :)
[15:36] <WillDuckworth> we had a chap who had a fridge magnet in his laptop case.... took a couple of crashed disks to work out what was going on
[15:36] <jonsowman> right, next
[15:36] <fsphil> not bad
[15:36] <fsphil> ooch
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[17:14] <Elwell> UpuWork: heh, you appear to be marginally more expensive than the french dealer. Convince me your extra markup benefits the HAB community :-)
[17:15] <Elwell> (but yeah, you're close enough I'll raid the piggy bank)
[17:18] <Upu> PM Elwell
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[17:24] <Elwell> Q - the .650 seems to be the normal frequency people use right?
[17:25] <Upu> yeah 075 is generally noisy qith local QRM but your milage may vary
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[17:26] <Elwell> OK I'll check from the shack
[17:27] <Upu> where are you based ?
[17:27] <Elwell> Geneva
[17:27] <Upu> ok
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[17:28] <Elwell> *poke* it still applies VAT when shipping to .ch :-)
[17:29] <Upu> yes it will
[17:29] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=shopfaq#why_do_i_have_to_pay_uk_vat_when_i_m_not_in_the_uk
[17:29] <Upu> sorry not much I can do about it
[17:29] <Elwell> yeah, it's a ballache - wasn;t sure if it was bug or by design
[17:30] <Upu> my governments bug :)
[17:30] <nick_> Elwell: you can claim it back on your end
[17:30] <nick_> (if you want to, this may actually lose you money)
[17:30] <Upu> Yeah apparently if you get a proof of posting and an invoice you can claim it back
[17:30] <nick_> The problem is that if you try to claim it back then you might get hit by an import tax.
[17:31] <nick_> I avoided the whole situation by just bringing stuff on planes when I was living in CH
[17:31] <Elwell> yup. 's not worth it for one-off personal stuff. If it was work it'd be po and more paperwork
[17:31] <Upu> tbh I'd just paying knowing your helping to pay for our wonder Olympic ceremony
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[17:32] <Elwell> I consider it contributing to my USS pension instead
[17:32] <Upu> :)
[17:32] <nick_> You work for star trek?
[17:33] <Elwell> yeah, cern
[17:33] <Elwell> (before that it was .ac.uk)
[17:33] <nick_> Hmmm
[17:33] <nick_> Which uni?
[17:33] <Elwell> ed then gla
[17:33] <nick_> Or you are a CERN fellow?
[17:33] <Elwell> nah, staff
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[17:34] <nick_> Which expt do you work on?
[17:34] <Elwell> none - I'm in IT
[17:34] <nick_> OK
[17:34] <Elwell> (grid software)
[17:34] <nick_> Oh, lame :(
[17:34] <Elwell> or is that 'all'
[17:34] <nick_> (although I would have said the same if you'd said you worked on one of the LHC ones probably)
[17:35] <nick_> I work on ATLAS
[17:35] <nick_> (as a grad student)
[17:36] <Elwell> I managed to get down the pit just before startup - tis an impressive beast
[17:36] <nick_> I went down just before the first startup.
[17:36] <nick_> ATLAS is kinda boring to look at.
[17:36] <nick_> LHCb is cool, you can actually see stuff.
[17:36] <Elwell> yeah, CMS is interesting if it's open too
[17:37] <nick_> I missed out on that :(
[17:37] <nick_> I worked on CMS for a year
[17:37] <nick_> Hoped to get down there but didn't.
[17:37] <nick_> I think I am the wrong age though.
[17:37] Action: Elwell only got down there this year
[17:38] <nick_> I would have really liked to work on LHC R&D
[17:38] <nick_> but I find the actual analysis work fairly boring.
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[17:38] <Elwell> yeah - did you visit SM18 - the magnet test place?
[17:38] <nick_> I think I went there when I was a summer student.
[17:39] <Elwell> tis cool to see a full cryo test + power jig
[17:39] <nick_> But there wasn't really anything going on
[17:39] <Elwell> anyway -- gotta go. back later
[17:39] <Upu> ttyl
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[17:41] <jonsowman> flux & braid = lifesaver
[17:41] <Upu> haha
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[17:41] <Upu> never sit down without them :)
[17:43] <jonsowman> forgot to buy one component on this board, annoyingly
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[17:46] <Elwell> are the brass soldering sponges worth getting?
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[17:47] <jonsowman> yes
[17:47] <jonsowman> they last a lot longer
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[18:45] <fsphil> re: brass solder sponges -- they also clean the tip better than those 'orrible wet ones
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[18:49] <jonsowman> 6 hours of straight soldering
[18:49] <jonsowman> fun fun
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> what are you soldering?
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[19:15] <SpeedEvil> "However, there is one instance of a crinoline possibly saving a life, in the case of Sarah Ann Henley, who jumped off the Clifton Suspension Bridge, Bristol, in 1885 after a lover's quarrel, but survived the a fall of almost 75 metres (246 ft) because her skirts supposedly acted like a parachute and slowed her descent.
[19:15] <eroomde> i'm having one of those days too jonsowman
[19:15] <eroomde> 118 air wires to go
[19:15] <jonsowman> heh
[19:15] <jonsowman> what are you routing eroomde?
[19:16] <eroomde> pcb for work
[19:16] <eroomde> new version of an existing board
[19:16] <jonsowman> ah right
[19:16] <jonsowman> mm same
[19:17] <eroomde> just a few incremental feature improvements but completely redoing the layout
[19:17] <jonsowman> sounds familiar
[19:18] <eroomde> i've changed the gps unit from antenova to ublox
[19:18] <jonsowman> wise
[19:18] <eroomde> so the entire antenna business is completely different
[19:18] <eroomde> so the whole board is different
[19:19] <Upu> which antenna are you using eroomde ?
[19:19] <eroomde> need a huge cutout to accomodate the sarantel as the whole thing has to be internal
[19:19] <eroomde> 1202 inside
[19:19] <Upu> ok
[19:19] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/%C2%B5AvaRFM-Rev2_top.png I just did that
[19:19] <eroomde> leaving plenty of space around it
[19:19] Action: Laurenceb_ has his sdr-gps dongle assembled
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[19:19] <Upu> baby one with an RFM-22B on it
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> annyoingly i cant flash the stm32f4
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> i dont know why
[19:20] <Upu> see if I can't get black caps so I can do an "apple"
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> i can talk to it over SWD, but it wont flash
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> heh
[19:20] <eroomde> nice!
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah wtf with their boards
[19:21] <eroomde> Upu: sanyo poscap
[19:21] <eroomde> they're the black tantalums
[19:21] <eroomde> really nice
[19:21] <Upu> though to do the full Apple I'll just put an Apple logo on it and charge four times what you can get the same for
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> lol
[19:21] <Upu> being a sad sack I noted that when you posted it earlier eroomde :)
[19:22] <eroomde> :)
[19:22] <eroomde> i'm using them on this board
[19:22] <eroomde> spent quite a while on the smps layout
[19:22] <Upu> lol
[19:22] <Upu> whats this one for ? Locating stuff in the highlands ?
[19:22] <eroomde> i'm quite pleased with it, it's hard work fitting the pieces together to really minimise the size of the current switching loops
[19:22] <eroomde> hold up will screencap
[19:22] <eroomde> nah this is proper work
[19:23] <Upu> proper work :)
[19:24] <eroomde> well, something that gets sold
[19:24] <eroomde> which is how i define proper work
[19:24] <Upu> fair definitiion
[19:24] <eroomde> imgur being v unreliable for me atm
[19:24] <Upu> yeah its not been great I switched to drop box public
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[19:24] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/OmnKj.png
[19:25] <eroomde> so the smps is the layout-out bit in the bottom right
[19:25] <Upu> smps ?
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> thats trivial
[19:25] <eroomde> switch-mode power supply
[19:25] <Upu> oh I see
[19:25] <Upu> Yes I like your ground planes
[19:26] <eroomde> it sort of take a big voltage in then PWMs it through inductors and caps to get a smooth smaller voltage
[19:26] <eroomde> yeah it's a star-ground
[19:26] <Upu> you put those down first before routing ?
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[19:26] <eroomde> trying to minimise the noise from the smps again
[19:26] <eroomde> yeah i made the smps bit on its own with polygons
[19:26] <eroomde> then group:moved it into place
[19:27] <Upu> looks good
[19:27] <Upu> big crystal :)
[19:27] <Upu> use an ABM03
[19:27] <eroomde> yeah i might if run out of space
[19:27] <Upu> not that your short on space though
[19:27] <eroomde> ust we have loads of that crystal ins tock
[19:27] <Upu> yeah
[19:28] <eroomde> the sarantel placement is a bit ropey
[19:28] <eroomde> but hopefully ok
[19:28] <Upu> looks ok
[19:28] <fsphil> they don't like conductors near them
[19:28] <eroomde> it'll just have to make do with that large area of ground plane beneath it
[19:28] <Upu> casing going to support ?
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> http://imagebin.org/216277
[19:29] <eroomde> fsphil: indeed. i've left about 30mm of space to the side
[19:29] <eroomde> Upu: yep
[19:29] <Upu> your PCBs are mad busy Laurenceb :)
[19:30] <eroomde> yeah i'm luckily not nearly that pathologically space constrained :)
[19:30] <jonsowman> today's work http://imgur.com/NoBhb
[19:30] <Upu> again super neat
[19:31] <jonsowman> monitors solar panel output and puts excess power into an immersion heater
[19:31] <Upu> ah ok
[19:31] <jonsowman> saves above £5/week on average
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[19:32] <fsphil> nice bit of soldering on the DC socket
[19:32] <fsphil> I'm really bad at those
[19:32] <jonsowman> that's the spaceflight soldering iron being good rather than me
[19:32] <fsphil> that's a good idea
[19:32] <Upu> I actually bought some 0.3mm solder today
[19:32] <Upu> been using 0.5mm
[19:32] <fsphil> our export rates are horrible
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[19:32] <fsphil> if I ever exported any I'd consider that
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[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:33] <Upu> evening Lunar
[19:33] <fsphil> yoyo
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> how is life?
[19:34] <Upu> still going
[19:34] <fsphil> all very carbony
[19:34] <fsphil> with some goo
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> football is boring cause the neighbours have faster TV somehow
[19:36] <fsphil> I lost you at "cause"
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> they shout about a second before we see it
[19:36] <eroomde> +1 for the cusf soldering iron
[19:36] <jonsowman> eroomde: it's so good :)
[19:37] <eroomde> that was the best thing we ever smuggled out of the electronics teaching lab
[19:37] <fsphil> hah
[19:37] <fsphil> what's different about it?
[19:37] <eroomde> they're like £500 new
[19:37] <eroomde> it's a metcal
[19:37] <eroomde> uses some kind of rf to transmit the power which heats up the surface of the metal (skin effect?)
[19:37] <fsphil> I've only ever used maplin irons
[19:37] <eroomde> anyway the thermal response is amazing and the power is very good
[19:38] <jonsowman> just makes soldering stuff effortless
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, xD
[19:38] <jonsowman> even if it's a massive slab of copper
[19:38] <eroomde> i've brazed brass rods to panel-mount bnc connectors with it
[19:38] <eroomde> it can really crank up the power if you need it
[19:38] <eroomde> there's no temp control either, it just controls power to stay at 350ish
[19:39] <jonsowman> :)
[19:39] <jonsowman> that and the microscope
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, today I wanted to try out the 808 interference but the lab had guests somehow and then my lab was used for some low-light experiment
[19:39] <jonsowman> makes everything so happy
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> was fed up by that
[19:40] <eroomde> but all of the above is poo compared to the mighty argos toast oevn
[19:40] <Upu> lol
[19:40] <fsphil> yay
[19:40] <Upu> can't you do it at home Lunar_Lander ?
[19:41] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> I have like all my equipment at the lab and the laptop is in a metal briefcase and I didn't really like the idea to drag it home
[19:41] <Upu> ok
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> only to bring it back tomorrow
[19:41] <fsphil> the oven actually makes me look at qfn parts, and go ... hmmm yea
[19:42] <fsphil> I used to think soldering standard soic parts was mad
[19:42] <eroomde> the oven makes me ok with bga now
[19:42] <eroomde> for some values of bga anyway
[19:42] <jonsowman> i've never tried bga
[19:42] <fsphil> not considered that yet
[19:42] <jonsowman> it scares me
[19:42] <Upu> they do a BGA Atmel 328
[19:42] <fsphil> can't use a braid to fix bga :)
[19:42] <eroomde> it's basically unfixable, that's what puts me off
[19:42] <Upu> I saw it and though lol
[19:42] <jonsowman> eroomde: exactly
[19:42] <eroomde> hot air will still get qfn off fine
[19:43] <jonsowman> also hard to tell whether it's reflowed properly
[19:43] <eroomde> no it isn't
[19:43] <eroomde> it's easy
[19:43] <eroomde> you just go to div c
[19:43] <Upu> If we can use BGA we can use the uBLOX AMY
[19:43] <Upu> and that is small
[19:43] <fsphil> we should try one Upu
[19:43] <eroomde> and ask to use their special machine
[19:43] <jonsowman> eroomde: heh
[19:43] <jonsowman> true
[19:43] <fsphil> you gots xrays?
[19:44] <eroomde> the special machine takes nice photos
[19:44] <Upu> actually yes I have access to an X-Ray machine
[19:44] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621846323425/
[19:44] <eroomde> used it for checking badger2
[19:44] <Upu> digital one at the wifes work
[19:44] <fsphil> cunning plan
[19:44] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3797397133/in/set-72157621846323425/
[19:44] <eroomde> you can see the gold wires inside the die
[19:44] <eroomde> cool huh?
[19:44] <Upu> indeed :)
[19:45] <fsphil> some of those don't go to the edge
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[19:49] <craag> A quick question on hab telemetry - do you guys transmit the raw altitude reported, or (altitude - geoidal separation)?
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> shhhh
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> if we thought about that we might lose some records
[19:49] <craag> lol oops
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> the highest, always the highest
[19:50] <craag> ok! thanks! Not gonna put any subtractions on if I don't have to..
[19:51] <Upu> whatever comes off the GPS
[19:52] <griffonbot> @b3noxley: @jeb_ We put a #Creeper up on our balloon to near space! Nowhere is safe.. http://t.co/h2GyeuqL #minecraft #UKHAS http://t.co/AB7g27aQ [http://twitter.com/b3noxley/status/212995878779224064]
[19:53] <fsphil> yep, now we're doomed
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[19:58] <eroomde> 112 air wires
[19:58] <jonsowman> http://imgur.com/2bxvx
[19:58] <eroomde> aa-aa-aa-aaaaa
[19:58] <jonsowman> massive resistor
[19:58] <eroomde> that's not a big resistor
[19:58] <eroomde> ah damnit i don;t have my camera
[19:58] <jonsowman> lol
[19:59] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/OmnKj.png
[19:59] <jonsowman> one milliohm :)
[19:59] <eroomde> R1, to the left of the smps shizzle, is a 1 ohm resistor
[19:59] <eroomde> sorry, 0.01 ohm
[19:59] <jonsowman> :)
[19:59] <eroomde> it's a strip of metal bent at both ends like a folded dipole
[19:59] <jonsowman> yeah
[19:59] <jonsowman> i considered those
[20:00] <jonsowman> but i needed a smaller one in the end
[20:00] <jonsowman> 0.001 ohms with a variable gain amplifier
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[20:02] <eroomde> mines just a fixie
[20:02] <eroomde> but fixies are hipperer
[20:02] <eroomde> so ner
[20:02] <eroomde> it's called an op90
[20:02] <eroomde> you've probably never heard of it
[20:02] <jonsowman> haha
[20:02] <jonsowman> i've not
[20:03] <eroomde> basically just testing the resistence of a length of nichrome hot wire
[20:03] <jonsowman> ah okay
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[20:09] <eroomde> however, i have just noticed i am still at work
[20:09] <eroomde> layout out pcbs
[20:09] <eroomde> laying out*
[20:09] <eroomde> so much for my eve
[20:09] <jonsowman> how many hours a day do you work on average?
[20:09] Action: fsphil is at home, doing work
[20:09] <fsphil> which is worse, as there are many distractions here at home
[20:09] Action: Laurenceb_ is at home, watching pron
[20:10] Lunar_Lander (~gd-dirac@84.160.96.197) joined #highaltitude.
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> also i never said that
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> back
[20:10] Action: daveake is at waiting for food
[20:10] <fsphil> said what? :)
[20:10] <daveake> +home
[20:10] <fsphil> I say work, I was juat playing vvvvvvv
[20:10] <fsphil> just*
[20:10] <Upu> evening daveake
[20:11] <Upu> 3 hours on a single AAA so far :)
[20:12] <Matt_soton> oh Upu got a AA step up working?
[20:12] <Matt_soton> AAA
[20:12] <Upu> yeah
[20:13] <Upu> runs the radio / gps and AVR fine
[20:13] <Upu> from single AAA
[20:13] <Upu> just testing how long for now
[20:13] <eroomde> jonsowman: really variable
[20:13] <Upu> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0654.JPG
[20:13] <eroomde> usually in the office 10-7
[20:13] <Matt_soton> what IC in the end?
[20:13] <eroomde> but sometimes in till 11
[20:13] <Upu> ignore the green PCB thats just holding the AAA in place
[20:13] <eroomde> and sometimes bugger off at 4.30
[20:13] <Upu> TPS61201DRC
[20:13] <Matt_soton> oh thats the one im gonna test :)
[20:14] <Upu> no need it works :)
[20:14] <Matt_soton> 3.3V or 1.8V?
[20:14] <Upu> I'm using 3.3v
[20:14] <Upu> can send you a PCB if you want to try one
[20:14] <Matt_soton> dw hopefully mine shall arrive soon
[20:15] <Matt_soton> pcb pool send us picture updates :)
[20:15] <Upu> nps
[20:15] <Upu> uk based ?
[20:15] <Matt_soton> ireland
[20:16] <Matt_soton> good to know it should work
[20:17] <Matt_soton> any reason yours works when previous ones didnt (i think others have tried this IC before)?
[20:18] <Upu> I think the efficiency wasn't as good at the current draw and input voltage
[20:18] <Upu> also I suspect the data sheet may have been a little "creative"
[20:18] <Upu> it was a bit borderline tbh
[20:19] <daveake> Evening Upu. Sorry, been too busy eating to read :).
[20:19] <Upu> nps
[20:19] <Matt_soton> that with the tps?
[20:19] <Upu> no
[20:19] <Upu> It was a .. 1 sec
[20:19] <Matt_soton> dw
[20:19] <Matt_soton> you mentioned it previous
[20:19] <Upu> yeah can't remember which one it was but it should have worked in theory
[20:20] <eroomde> 101 air wires
[20:20] <Matt_soton> well we shall see if i can solder it and get it working next week :)
[20:20] <jonsowman> wait for the magical moment when eagle says "Nothing to do!"
[20:20] <Upu> it was an LM something but farnell is down
[20:20] <eroomde> i might be waiting a while
[20:20] <jonsowman> heh
[20:20] <eroomde> farnell is down!?!
[20:21] <Upu> yup
[20:21] <eroomde> what for of jizzlery?
[20:21] <jonsowman> they do choose weird times
[20:21] <eroomde> speaking of which farnell rasp pi arrived today
[20:21] <eroomde> which is cool
[20:21] <jonsowman> :)
[20:21] <jonsowman> what are you going to do with it?
[20:21] <eroomde> playin
[20:21] <fsphil> ooh you got pi
[20:22] <Upu> NCP1402
[20:22] <eroomde> want to see if it can do IEE1588 (accurate ethernet time) because then i've 101 applications for it
[20:22] <fsphil> I've not had time to play with mine :(
[20:22] <eroomde> i'm pretty certain it can't though
[20:22] <eroomde> it's gonna be the cheapest PHY money can buy on that thing
[20:22] <Matt_soton> yea thats the one upu
[20:24] <eroomde> have put debian on it though
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[20:25] <fsphil> deb ain't too bad on it
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> arg day of fail
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> now my mailserver is down
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> this is how serial killers are born
[20:26] <Upu> evening RocketBoy
[20:26] <Upu> which PIC do you use on XABEN ?
[20:27] <eroomde> haha!
[20:27] <eroomde> i'm now into the 90's
[20:27] <jonsowman> :)
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> ?
[20:27] <eroomde> which is what an ex of mine said recently about something else entirelty
[20:27] Action: Upu remotely hits "autoroute"
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> autofail
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> /auton00b
[20:28] <Upu> did you type that without the null first ? :)
[20:30] <eroomde> about 2 years ago on this channel i typed:
[20:30] <eroomde> /msg NickServ identify eroomde [mypassword]
[20:31] <eroomde> all because of that silly leading space
[20:31] <Upu> :)
[20:31] Action: Laurenceb_ searches logs
[20:31] <Upu> I don't think you'll be the first or last person to post their password on channel
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> wtf is apparmour?
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> and why is it taking almost as long to update as antivirus on windoze
[20:32] <Upu> meh as long as .Net 4 on windows
[20:32] <Upu> get with the times
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> see its not my day today
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> mail server goes back online, first email is that the 2 guys im working with have quit their jobs
[20:33] <eroomde> the main problem is that you're using windows
[20:33] Action: eroomde prods Upu with a stick and runs away
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> but im running ubuntu
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> oh
[20:34] Action: Upu sits back smug knowing I could install Eagle within 60 seconds should the desire take me
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[20:34] <eroomde> there's a bird outside that sounds a great deal like people having sex on a trampoline with rusty springs
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> i dont want to know how you know what that sounds like
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> looks like i now have an entire office to myself
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> maybe i repel people
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> 6months ago there were 8 others
[20:36] <Upu> did they close the office down and not tell you ?
[20:37] <daveake> how would he know? :p
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> i think they were all losers whod rather be on jobseekers
[20:40] <eroomde> yeah
[20:40] <eroomde> you have that effect on people
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[20:42] <Upu> is there anyway to get dl-fldigi to record the text from the RTTY window to a file ?
[20:43] <Upu> automatically without cut and pasting it
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> its annoying, i need some slaves to get me rite-lok ac-78
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> maybe if they could set it as a challenge on the apprentice
[20:43] <eroomde> Upu: turn logging on i think
[20:43] <eroomde> saves everything to a txt file
[20:44] <G0DJA> The DVB-T unit was delivered yesterday - so am hoping to get it set up for 434MHz ( as well as other frequencies of course) soon
[20:44] <Upu> can't find that eroomde
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[20:45] <Upu> don't worry about it I'll just record the audio
[20:46] <daveake> right-click the text area then choose "save as"?
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[20:46] <Upu> oh epic that closed i down :)
[20:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "[UKHAS] Re: UoS Physics Outreach Project Launch Announcement, Monday
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[20:50] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/KK1v1
[20:50] <Upu> great picture
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[20:51] <Upu> always like it when there is payload in them
[20:51] <jonsowman> yeah me too
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[20:56] <eroomde> Upu: have you seen this'n? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o83gloSfpgw
[20:57] <Upu> nope watching
[20:57] <Upu> whats the dangly cords at the side ?
[20:57] <Upu> paracutes ?
[20:57] <eroomde> yes
[20:57] <eroomde> it was a crazy payload
[20:57] <Upu> that just scream "needs more gopro"
[20:57] <eroomde> a rocket in the central tube
[20:57] <eroomde> 3 mortar-launched parachutes
[20:58] <Upu> that doesn't look like Scotland either
[20:58] _Hix-Android (~androirc@93-96-211-26.zone4.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:58] <Upu> in fact it looks very much like Cambridge
[20:58] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/4155678
[20:58] <eroomde> similar to that video
[20:58] <eroomde> bit of antenna
[20:58] <eroomde> from a gps-destroying Flip Micro HD cams
[20:59] <Upu> yeah lol
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[21:01] <eroomde> 70 air wires!
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[21:01] <eroomde> tbh i'm just doing low hanging fruit
[21:01] <eroomde> dropping vias down to ground plane
[21:02] <eroomde> but i still want to tell you because you just might like to know
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[21:02] <Upu> I'm with you Airwiremode
[21:02] <Upu> Airwiremde
[21:02] <thecduck> anyone got any good experiences with cheap H264 (#808) cameras?
[21:02] <thecduck> or is it too shaky?
[21:03] <Upu> heh
[21:03] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=306
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[21:04] <thecduck> the camera interferes with the GPS? :D
[21:04] <Matt_soton> http://vimeo.com/39501001
[21:04] <Upu> yeah 1 sec just trying to find the GPSL mailing list about it
[21:04] <Matt_soton> ^that is compressed quite a bit btw
[21:05] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcbykWjsQrI
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[21:05] <Upu> Have a read of this thread http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GPSL/message/11992
[21:06] <Upu> wrap them in foil and keep them away from your GPS and you should be ok
[21:07] <thecduck> which versions are these? i've seen some fairly sharp footage from the 720/1080p versions, but the image is quite "wobbly"
[21:07] <thecduck> ah, cool
[21:08] <eroomde> right, going home
[21:08] <eroomde> rest of the airwires can be a job for tomorrow
[21:08] <eroomde> g'night
[21:09] <Upu> nn
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[21:17] <nick_> Matt_soton: any info on the things the kids launched?
[21:17] Action: nick_ just got his mbed to set up its RTC via NTP :)
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[21:17] Nick change: G0DJA_ -> G0DJA
[21:18] <G0DJA> What happened just then?
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> glitch in the matrix
[21:22] <G0DJA> As long as non of those electronic snakes are going to come out of the screen then?
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbWEXb8TEsg
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> wtf internet
[21:24] <thecduck> hahahaha
[21:24] <jonsowman> :\
[21:25] <thecduck> good ol' internet
[21:25] <thecduck> never ceases to amaze
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[21:34] <thecduck> http://www.flickr.com/photos/roborovskihamsters/7210710458/in/pool-67555315@N00/
[21:34] <thecduck> are those tea bags?
[21:35] <nick_> I'm wondering if mysql is a good way to log my data
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[22:16] <eroomde> nick_: nah
[22:16] <eroomde> itll never catch on
[22:17] <Elwell> wish people would geotag their balloon pics
[22:17] <fsphil> I've started to
[22:18] <Elwell> http://www.flickr.com/photos/roborovskihamsters/7210702520/in/pool-67555315@N00 is a lovely low shot, wonder where it is
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[22:20] <choppyhorse> so I hooked up my GPS unit to my arduino and am looking at the output. According to the GPGSV it is looking at 9 satellites, but it still transmits invalid GPRMC (V) and GPGGA (0). It has been running for ten minutes. I am indoors, but my cell phone's gps can pick up here.
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> it's done! http://youtu.be/IUagi4Hj7MY
[22:22] <fsphil> you appear to be radioactive
[22:23] <fsphil> you soldered all that?
[22:25] <G0DJA> Everywhere is radioactive to some extent
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, it was a simple step by step manual on how to solder it
[22:25] <fsphil> nice job
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> good thing was that he gave like the correct order
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> resistors first, then diodes
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[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> then increasing the height of the components
[22:26] <nick_> Cool
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> so that you always like had
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:26] <nick_> I got my mbed writing to a mysql database on my laptop :)
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> how can you describe it?
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil,
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> you know what I mean?
[22:27] <G0DJA> Looking at all these balloons and future launches I am starting to think that I wont need to put another payload together
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> that the components had the right height so that nothing would fall out when turning over for soldering
[22:27] <fsphil> the kits I build are similar
[22:27] <fsphil> velman I think they're called
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:35] Nick change: KingJ -> KingJ-Legacuy
[22:35] Nick change: KingJ-Legacuy -> KingJ-Legacy
[22:35] Nick change: KingJ_ -> KingJ
[22:37] <fsphil> meh, doing homework. like being back at school
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> lol two positive and one negative ratings already
[22:38] <G0DJA> Velman still sold by Maplin I think
[22:38] <fsphil> negative? sheesh
[22:39] <fsphil> I made a little C64 program and put that on youtube, got a negative vote within an hour
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> now it's 4 pos and 2 neg
[22:41] <fsphil> keeping the same ratio at least
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> shall I be disturbed by that?
[22:44] <fsphil> nah
[22:45] <fsphil> best not to take anything on the internet too seriously
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:45] <G0DJA> I wouldn't worry Lunar_Lander
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:46] <fsphil> You could make the perfect video and people would still vote it down :)
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> GREAT SCOTT!
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> my transformer tutorial was watched 3000 times
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> and I didn't noticed that
[22:47] <fsphil> was just watching that
[22:48] <G0DJA> What's the URL?
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2PyJehW2Mc&list=UUwLbAytnYpEVbryZurOL8cg&index=8&feature=plcp
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[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> G0DJA, fsphil how was it?
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[23:07] <nick_> http://mbed.org/users/NickRyder/notebook/data-logger1/ is my evening's work
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:09] <Smrtz> OK, so I'm actually going to just buy a reciver, then return it after the launch, but the cheapest I can find was 970 for a YAESU FT-817ND
[23:09] <Smrtz> anyone know of something cheaper? I'm in the US by the way.
[23:10] <Smrtz> also, $770, I don't know where that 9 came from
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[23:11] <choppyhorse> why do you need such a fancy expensive receiver?
[23:11] <Smrtz> anything with 70cm SSB will work.
[23:12] <Smrtz> thats just what google found.
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[23:15] <choppyhorse> there is only one HT I know of that does SSB, with is the Kenwood TH-f6a, which is only $300
[23:15] <choppyhorse> it has 70cm as well
[23:15] <choppyhorse> I am not sure if it does SSB TX or just RX
[23:16] <Smrtz> well, looks like I'm googling wrong
[23:16] <Smrtz> Thanks choppyhorse
[23:16] <choppyhorse> you should make sure it does SSB TX
[23:17] <nick_> http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/kenwood-th-f7-2m70cm-handie-wide-band-rx-with-ssb-cw-fm-am/103429376 would work?
[23:17] <choppyhorse> yeah, I'm pretty sure it does rx only for SSB
[23:17] <nick_> Do you need to transmit?
[23:18] <Smrtz> nope, just recive from the nTX2.
[23:19] <Smrtz> nick_, That would work, but I don't have time to wait for shipping.
[23:19] <Smrtz> This is for a school project, and a group partner just moved the lanch date up to the 21st
[23:19] <nick_> I didn't mean that exact one :)
[23:20] <choppyhorse> if you just need to recieve, you can get a handheld unit that just recieves for much cheaper
[23:20] <nick_> Not for you at elast.
[23:20] <nick_> That's all you need for HAB, right?
[23:20] <nick_> Although you'd want a bigger/different antenna?
[23:20] <nick_> And I guess 3.5mm output to hook up to a pc?
[23:21] <Smrtz> nick_, yeah, but you can make the antenna (yagi) and most have 3.3mm
[23:22] <nick_> Do you need a ham license to use something that can transmit, or just to actually transmit?
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[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Just to transmit
[23:22] <Smrtz> I don't know, my teacher has that coverd with his. either way, the balloon is still transmitting
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[23:23] <SpeedEvil> The balloon is not transmitting on other than frequencies which do not need a licence.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Indeed - you can't get a licence to broadcast on ham frequencies from the air in the UK
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> (well, technically, you could apply to OFCOM for a special licence)...
[23:23] <Smrtz> ahh, didn't know that SpeedEvil nice!
[23:23] <fsphil> the 434mhz ism band is in the middle of the 70cm amateur band, which is a happy concidence :)
[23:24] <fsphil> as it means there's lots of very sensitive gear out there already
[23:24] <Smrtz> do you know of a reciver for less than $378USD?
[23:24] <fsphil> if you're feeling brave, there's the funcube dongle
[23:24] <Smrtz> fsphil, from what I've heard, no.
[23:24] <fsphil> they may work, depending on where yo uare
[23:25] <Smrtz> also, I'll be the only one tracking, and at night...
[23:25] <Smrtz> How can you tell, fsphil
[23:26] <fsphil> they're sensitive receivers, but there flaw is they don't handle other strong signals well
[23:26] <fsphil> and you won't really know until you try it
[23:26] <fsphil> mine works well when I'm at our launch site (in the middle of nowhere)
[23:26] <Smrtz> ahh, well, what about signals of other modulation?
[23:26] <fsphil> but at home it's quite deaf
[23:26] <fsphil> because of a nearby TETRA transmitter
[23:27] <fsphil> with filtering that can be fixed, but there isn't a filter yet
[23:27] <fsphil> not an off-the-shelf one anyway
[23:27] <fsphil> maybe soon
[23:27] <fsphil> or not
[23:27] <Smrtz> meh, I feel that I'd rather "loan" the extra money, than risk that.
[23:27] <fsphil> I would
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[23:28] <fsphil> any of the yaesu radios (817 or 790) will have all the filtering you'd need
[23:28] <fsphil> you may be able to get an FT790 cheaper, although they are old radios and don't pop up too often
[23:28] <fsphil> they're nice and sensitive too
[23:28] <fsphil> and run for ages on battery
[23:29] <gonzo__> find some local hams
[23:29] <fsphil> yea, or borrow a ham :)
[23:30] <gonzo__> I'm sure they would be interested in helping
[23:30] <fsphil> if anyone here was going to fly I'd love to help track
[23:30] <gonzo__> eve better
[23:30] <Smrtz> i tried a few local clubs< no ssb gear here...
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[23:32] <fsphil> shame none of the chinese handhelds do ssb
[23:32] <fsphil> guess that'd push up the price though
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[23:33] <Smrtz> sorry, typing and eating is hard, but yeah, i checked the local club, and the ones for a few towns around here, no SSB gear with 70cm, only 30Mhz and down
[23:33] <fsphil> that's fairly normal
[23:34] <fsphil> ssb isn't very common on vhf or higher
[23:35] <Smrtz> yeah, that's what they all said.
[23:35] <fsphil> it does allow for some impressive ranges
[23:36] <Smrtz> yeah, how far are you guys getting non los?
[23:36] <fsphil> non-los will be very tiny on 70cm
[23:37] <fsphil> the top range is about 700km I think
[23:37] <fsphil> 775.6km
[23:37] <Smrtz> heh, thats non tiny, or is that LOS?
[23:37] <fsphil> likely LOS, but only just
[23:38] <fsphil> there might have been some help from the atmosphere
[23:38] <Smrtz> yeah, sounds kinda big
[23:39] <Smrtz> but I don't really understand AR as much as I should to be doing this, 70cm is the wavelength? the tighter the less eficient?
[23:40] <fsphil> shorter waves have higher frequency
[23:41] <fsphil> the 2m band is 144mhz, the 70cm band is 434mhz, etc..
[23:41] <fsphil> the higher the frequency the more gain it needs, I'm not really sure on the maths
[23:42] <Smrtz> ahh ok
[23:42] <Smrtz> gain is direconality?
[23:42] <fsphil> yep
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[23:42] <fsphil> it's easier to make high gain antennas with the smaller wavelengths
[23:42] <Smrtz> cool
[23:42] <fsphil> just requires better aim
[23:43] <Smrtz> how tight would the aim be for a 3 element yagi, over 70cm?
[23:43] <fsphil> you could probably point it the wrong way and still get a signal :)
[23:44] <Smrtz> Oh, well..
[23:44] <fsphil> the antenna should have a plot of the gain vs direction
[23:44] <Smrtz> should I add more before launch? Or will it still provide enough range to accomidate HABing?
[23:44] <Smrtz> what kinds of range are to be expected with this?
[23:45] <fsphil> should be fine unless you're going long distnace
[23:45] <fsphil> my chase antenna is just a simple magmount vertical
[23:45] <fsphil> http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=IT44456
[23:45] <fsphil> that's good enough for a few 100km
[23:45] <fsphil> LOS
[23:45] <fsphil> unless you're directly under it
[23:46] <fsphil> which is a kind of null area for both antennas
[23:46] <Smrtz> heh, funny how the shortest path gets no signal
[23:46] <Smrtz> unless you turn them sideways.
[23:46] <fsphil> they have most of their gain horizontally
[23:46] <fsphil> exactly
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[23:46] <fsphil> a yagi is most useful for after landing, when you might have a weak signal and need to direction find it
[23:47] <Smrtz> When I was just learning about this, I read a blog post about someone who lost theirs, but found it by doing just that
[23:47] <fsphil> I've seen something similar with my own, we caught up with it in the car and as we drove under it the signal dropped way down
[23:47] <fsphil> didn't lose it completly though
[23:48] <Smrtz> ahh, I don't think he did either, just enough to be worying
[23:48] <Smrtz> by the way, I can't type, or spell
[23:48] <fsphil> you'll fit right in :)
[23:49] <Smrtz> Would you recomend I make another type of antenna for the drive to the predicted landing zone?
[23:49] <fsphil> for driving a little omni-directional like that magmount would be ideal
[23:49] <Smrtz> I'm using a bazooka on the balloon, would another on the ground work? I think it would be too flat.
[23:49] <Smrtz> (the gain would be flat)
[23:49] <fsphil> it should work
[23:50] <fsphil> it won't be too flat unless it's got very high gain
[23:50] <Smrtz> oh, I don't have the time/money to buy one, so making another bazooka is our best bet
[23:50] <Smrtz> what software would you recommend for tunning them?
[23:50] <fsphil> the trick is mounting it outside the car
[23:51] <Smrtz> puting it in pvc, ziptied to the side of my car.
[23:51] <fsphil> I used the swr meter on my 817 to tune it
[23:51] <fsphil> cut a few mm off until it seemed ok
[23:51] <Smrtz> 817?
[23:52] <fsphil> yaesu ft-817
[23:52] <fsphil> can't remember what size we ended up with
[23:52] <fsphil> I still have it somewhere
[23:52] <Smrtz> yeah, you keep cutting till it looks good, and does the one I'm "loaning" have that?
[23:52] <fsphil> all ft-817's do, it's not terribly accurate but it does the job
[23:53] <fsphil> you're not really suppose to be tx'ing without an amateur license though
[23:53] <Smrtz> kenwood
[23:53] <Smrtz> TH F6 A 144/220/440?
[23:53] <fsphil> ah
[23:53] <fsphil> no sure
[23:53] <fsphil> not
[23:53] <fsphil> neither of my handhelds have an swr meter
[23:54] <Smrtz> k, is there some software that can analize the signal comeing in threw a 3.3mm jack?
[23:54] <fsphil> the overall size of the bazooka should be half the wavelength
[23:54] <fsphil> if you have it that it should be pretty close
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[23:55] <fsphil> not that I'm aware of
[23:55] <Smrtz> yeah, I used the guide recommended on the ukhas page to build it
[23:55] <Smrtz> hmmm.
[23:56] <fsphil> I think our bazooka was received up to 350km or so away
[23:56] <fsphil> we flew two on that flight
[23:56] <Smrtz> wow, how long is the drive from launch to destination, on avrage?
[23:57] <fsphil> Of the two I've recovered, about 30km drive
[23:57] <fsphil> the two I lost went very far, about 300km. but that was intentional :)
[23:57] <Smrtz> how did it get 350km ?away
[23:58] <SpeedEvil> Wind
[23:58] <Smrtz> how did that question mark get over there?
[23:58] <fsphil> oh that first one was received 350km away
[23:58] <Smrtz> away, and back?
[23:58] <fsphil> it landed 30km from the launch site
[23:58] <Smrtz> ohh wow
[23:58] <Smrtz> ok, cool
[23:58] <fsphil> but I've had two flights travel about 300 or 400km
[23:59] <Smrtz> wow, how? underfilling the balloon?
[23:59] <fsphil> yep
[23:59] <fsphil> and strong winds
[23:59] <Smrtz> wait, if were going at night, our pictures are going to be crap
[23:59] <fsphil> the last one went a bit further than intended
[23:59] <Smrtz> mail recovery? heh
[23:59] <fsphil> it landed in the north sea :)
[23:59] <Smrtz> oh, float?
[23:59] <fsphil> with the fishies now
[00:00] --- Thu Jun 14 2012