highaltitude.log.20120608

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[06:49] <eroomde> morning
[06:49] <Randomskk> good morning (I haven't slept)
[06:49] <Randomskk> (project deadline: today)
[06:50] <jcoxon> morning
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[06:53] <nosebleedkt__> tomorrow I get my 9 m^3 helium tank !!!!!!
[06:53] <daveake> Take a friend
[06:54] <number10> is this the last day of year 3 for you Randomskk
[06:54] <nosebleedkt__> I ordered the 5.5 for 280euro but they had only 9 for 400euro. But they gave me the 9 at the price of 5.5 LOL
[06:54] Action: daveake grabs calculator
[06:54] <daveake> HOW MUCH ????
[06:54] <nosebleedkt__> and kindly asked me to just spend the 5.5 !
[06:55] Action: daveake Gets up off floor
[06:55] <daveake> You paid 280 Euros ???
[06:55] <nosebleedkt__> its 5.5 m^3 for 280.
[06:55] <Randomskk> number10: close enough
[06:55] <nosebleedkt__> 180 are for the TANK.
[06:55] <nosebleedkt__> 100 are for helium
[06:56] <daveake> So you get the 180 back on return?
[06:56] <nosebleedkt__> yes
[06:56] <daveake> Good
[06:56] <number10> Randomskk: what is the project (hope is going well)
[06:56] <eroomde> wowza
[06:56] <nosebleedkt__> if i return it safe and sound :)
[06:56] <daveake> 100 for 9 m3 is a good price
[06:56] <Randomskk> number10: one is software one is microfluidics
[06:56] <nosebleedkt__> daveake: normally its 5.5 m^3
[06:57] <Randomskk> atm frantically writing reports :P
[06:57] <Randomskk> gotta shower in three or four mins then go into dept and stay away through six hours of labs
[06:57] <nosebleedkt__> they just couldnt find 5.5 and they gave me 9
[06:57] <Randomskk> then handin
[06:57] <number10> well I wont disturb you ;)
[06:57] <Randomskk> then write another report tonight
[06:57] <Randomskk> and hand that in saturday morning
[06:57] <Randomskk> THEN I'm done
[06:57] <daveake> woohoo:)
[06:57] <number10> get some sleep before next report
[06:57] <Randomskk> unlikely :P
[06:57] <Randomskk> well it might happen despite
[06:57] <Randomskk> more 'collapsing unconscious' than 'sleep' per se
[06:58] <nosebleedkt__> whats up Randomskk ?
[06:58] <Randomskk> ^
[06:58] <nosebleedkt__> whats year 3 for you ?
[06:58] <Randomskk> yea
[06:59] <Randomskk> penultimate
[06:59] <Randomskk> 4 year degree
[06:59] <Randomskk> right, Conclusions
[06:59] <Randomskk> can definitely wrap this up before shower
[06:59] <nosebleedkt__> whats penultimate?
[06:59] <Randomskk> the one before last
[06:59] <daveake> A really good pen
[06:59] <Randomskk> also that
[06:59] <nosebleedkt__> lol daveake
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[07:02] <jcoxon> for a flight what would be the best approach to powering a device with lithiums at first and then using a lipo (+solar charging) when on the ground
[07:02] <jcoxon> ?
[07:03] <daveake> or-together the 2 power sources with schottky diodes (low forward drop)
[07:03] <jcoxon> with the assumption that the energizers will be put out a good voltage for the flight
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[07:04] <daveake> If the Lithiums are higher voltage then it'll run on those till they discharge
[07:04] <jcoxon> the reason for the lithiums is that the lipo is going to struggle at low temps
[07:04] <jcoxon> but say once down it'll come into its own
[07:05] <eroomde> schottkey's in a diode-or bridge as daveake says, or for better power efficientcy you can use something like a p-channel mosfet whose voltage drop (and so power dissipation) will be much much lower
[07:05] <daveake> Plan B: Use the lithiums to keep the lipo warm :)
[07:05] <eroomde> infact i haves an idea
[07:05] <eroomde> i saw an app note recently that looked useful - sec
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[07:07] <eroomde> http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3864
[07:07] <eroomde> ^
[07:07] <eroomde> might not be exactly what you want if you want intelligent switching over at some solar panel threshold
[07:08] <eroomde> what i guess you really want for that is a black box solar and battery pack that does all of that internally (keeping the batts charged etc) and just provides you some power
[07:08] <eroomde> but this is all easy to say over breakfast
[07:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:08] <daveake> useful :)
[07:09] <jcoxon> hehe
[07:09] <UpuWork> morning all
[07:09] <eroomde> morning UpuWork
[07:09] <number10> mornin
[07:09] <jcoxon> something like this
[07:09] <jcoxon> https://www.adafruit.com/products/390
[07:10] <eroomde> whilst finding that note i came across this: http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3115-1
[07:10] <eroomde> which looks like a very nice device
[07:10] <UpuWork> charge everything-o-tron 7000
[07:10] <eroomde> and very very efficient at about lipo input voltage
[07:11] <nosebleedkt__> moring UpuWork
[07:11] <UpuWork> morning
[07:11] <jcoxon> so could treat a solar/lipo setup as one power source
[07:11] <nosebleedkt__> I guess I will a second guy to help me get that 9m^3 tank
[07:11] <jcoxon> and energizers as another
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[07:11] <eroomde> nosebleedkt__: yes
[07:11] <eroomde> they're very heavy
[07:12] <eroomde> dont damage yourself trying to work with them alone
[07:12] <jcoxon> then have p_mosfet or diode_or setup to the device
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[07:12] <eroomde> jcoxon: fun video with reasoning for the p mosfet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrB-FPcv1Dc
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[07:16] <eroomde> does anyone know of a good source for buying individual lipo cells?
[07:17] <eroomde> the foil sachet type
[07:18] <number10> may have some here left over from some project work - I'll ask
[07:19] <eroomde> ta
[07:20] <jcoxon> eroomde, that is a good video
[07:21] <eroomde> jcoxon: yeah
[07:21] <eroomde> nicely made
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[07:22] <eroomde> the only thing is that it mentions (i think) that Vgs wants to be sort of >4V to drive the fet fully on
[07:22] <eroomde> which you won't get with a 3.3V (say) supply
[07:23] <eroomde> but i think you can get fets with much better Vgs vs Rdson curves in that respect
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[07:27] <jcoxon> eroomde, yeah thats always been my issue really
[07:27] <jcoxon> finding a mosfet with a lower enough gate voltage
[07:29] <daveake> http://www.vishay.com/docs/72692/72692.pdf
[07:30] <daveake> -0.5 to -1V agte threshold voltage
[07:30] <daveake> gate*
[07:32] <jcoxon> cool
[07:33] <zyp> doesn't n-channel mosfets generally have lower Rds than p-channel?
[07:35] <eroomde> not sure, though the complexity of using them in polairty protection would be a bit higher than with P
[07:35] <eroomde> it's nice and simple to hook up a P-channel one
[07:35] <eroomde> daveake: cool ta
[07:36] <zyp> eroomde, would it really?
[07:36] <eroomde> though yes that part does have a pretty high rdson
[07:36] <jcoxon> so how would you use mosfet for power source selection?
[07:37] <jcoxon> mosfet-or setup?
[07:38] <eroomde> zyp: yeah sure
[07:38] <eroomde> because you need to drive the gate higher than vbatt
[07:38] <eroomde> so you need a charge pump circuit or something
[07:39] <zyp> eroomde, for polarity protection?
[07:39] <eroomde> yeah
[07:39] <zyp> don't you just move it to the other battery line?
[07:40] <eroomde> that's scary shit
[07:40] <eroomde> cutting the circuit off from ground
[07:40] <eroomde> having the whole circuit floating at some potential
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[07:40] <zyp> doesn't really matter if this is a battery only powered circuit
[07:41] <zyp> a battery has no inherent ground
[07:41] <eroomde> maybe if it's always battery only
[07:41] <zyp> you're not cutting the circuit off from ground, you're cutting the battery off from ground
[07:41] <eroomde> but most boards i make aren't
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[07:42] <eroomde> putting on my old man hat, i've been there and done that enough to know that there are always unexpected paths to ground in mechatronicsy systems. it's just asking for trouble.
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[07:45] <zyp> remember that when jumpstarting cars, you always connect ground last
[07:45] <eroomde> i've always done it first...
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[07:46] <zyp> the thing is that you want the last connection away from the batteries and their gases, since closing the circuit makes sparks
[07:46] <number10> eroomde: how about 650ma 2.4Wh
[07:46] <number10> 650mAh I meant
[07:47] <zyp> so you're supposed to make the last connection directly to the metal on the engine in the car with the dead battery
[07:48] <eroomde> fi've always done it the other way round. i think all the manuals (though i accept tha manuals for drivers aren't necessarily based on physics) advise the same
[07:48] <eroomde> number10: if you've a couple spare that'd be awesome
[07:48] <number10> yes, new ones
[07:48] <jcoxon> talking about lipos
[07:48] <jcoxon> http://www.maplin.co.uk/solar-powered-charger-bag-with-built-in-speaker-353528?c=maplin&utm_source=gcs&utm_medium=gcs_search&utm_campaign=N86HN&utm_content=Solar+Gadgets
[07:49] <jcoxon> has a 600mAh lipo inside
[07:49] <jcoxon> cheaper then buying one from sparkfun
[07:49] <number10> these are free :)
[07:49] <jcoxon> wouldnt trust the solar charging though
[07:49] <zyp> eroomde, wikipedia claims you're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jump_start_%28vehicle%29#Jumper_cables_.28Jump_Leads.29
[07:50] <zyp> «Car manuals recommend connecting the negative (black) cable last and disconnecting it first, since charging may produce hydrogen gas, which could explode if there is a spark;»
[07:50] <eroomde> eventually i'd like to get one of those ~100mm x 100mm LiPos, the ones about the size of a slice of toast
[07:50] <number10> pm your address and I'll send them to you
[07:50] <eroomde> that are about 5Ah
[07:50] <number10> eroomde: ^
[07:51] <eroomde> zyp: interesting
[07:51] <eroomde> that's a first for me
[07:52] <eroomde> number10: thanks
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[08:46] <shawn> hello?
[08:48] <shawn> I need to transmit and receive info from about 22 miles above the ground, any ideas? I'm a maker so lets go with some type of module type device.
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[08:48] <shawn> hello
[08:49] <eroomde> shawn: hello
[08:49] <UpuWork> hey shawn which country ?
[08:49] <eroomde> have a read of the ukhas wiki first
[08:49] <shawn> us
[08:49] <UpuWork> oh many options then
[08:50] <shawn> thanks
[08:51] <shawn> http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=50M4408&CMP=AFC-GB100000001
[08:51] <shawn> I found this but I don't really know since the datasheet is missing
[08:51] <eroomde> we use and love those modules over here
[08:51] <UpuWork> yep you can use those, cheaper from me though :)
[08:51] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=61
[08:51] <UpuWork> however
[08:51] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[08:51] <UpuWork> you can use APRS and stuff so the HX1 might be a better module for you
[08:52] <eroomde> you can only use aprs if you're a ham
[08:52] <UpuWork> ah yeah sorry
[08:52] <UpuWork> what eroomde said
[08:53] <shawn> is the thing I posted from newark ham?
[08:53] <eroomde> the options narrow again if you're not a ham :)
[08:53] <eroomde> i'm not actually sure about if those modules are license-free in the US
[08:53] <UpuWork> shawn thats an NTX2 10mW module you posted, they work great using RTTY
[08:53] <eroomde> i would imagine they are as it's fairly universal for car keys and so on
[08:53] <shawn> Also this might be a stretch but what is the chances I could send a video feed?
[08:54] <UpuWork> not with those
[08:54] <shawn> what would I need>
[08:54] <shawn> ?
[08:54] <UpuWork> not sure probably something more powerful and higher frequency
[08:54] <UpuWork> are you a radio amateur ?
[08:55] <fsphil> you could possibly use 2.4ghz wireless video modules, but you'd need a really huge antenna on the ground and very good aim
[08:55] <fsphil> probably not worth it
[08:55] <shawn> no I've never really done anything with radio besides restore some wood on a old one
[08:55] <shawn> :)
[08:55] <UpuWork> start simple then
[08:55] <UpuWork> :)
[08:56] <eroomde> well, radio hams in the us have certainly done live video
[08:56] <eroomde> so its very possible
[08:56] <shawn> hmm, thanks for the links upuwork nice arduino tut
[08:57] <shawn> well, where should I start?
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[08:57] <shawn> also what is all this going to run me? ($)
[08:58] <eroomde> you can build a flight computer and fly and recover a hab for about $200-300 if you can borrow a ground radio
[08:58] <eroomde> the ground radios are standard ham radio stuff, but usually a bit of an investment
[08:59] <eroomde> so people often borrow for the first flight, then get hooked
[09:00] <shawn> honestly, I live in the middle of no where. so finding a ham radio would impossible :/ lol
[09:01] <eroomde> hams often live in the middle of nowhere as it happens
[09:01] <shawn> this place is called "finger" Tennessee... lol
[09:01] <shawn> hmm, I did not know this.
[09:01] <gonzo_> google for your nearest radio club
[09:03] <bambi> hello - this is my first time here so I apologize for not knowing the protocol
[09:03] <shawn> So with the ntx2 module what are the possibilities? maybe a radio controlled plane? o.O or just text? I have no idea how any of this works so please excuse my ignorance.
[09:03] <eroomde> bambi: there isn't any so dive in
[09:04] <eroomde> shawn: that module is transmit only
[09:04] <eroomde> so we just use them to send back text from the balloon
[09:04] <eroomde> latitude, longitude, altitude etc
[09:04] <gonzo_> hams in your area: http://www.city-data.com/aradio/lic-Finger-Tennessee.html
[09:05] <bambi> <eroomde> - thank you. I am in Australia and I am planning a laouch sometime before November. I have visited the UKHAS website and am following some of the imromation there to start the project
[09:05] <eroomde> where abouts in Ox are you?
[09:05] <eroomde> Ping Darkside ^
[09:05] <shawn> ok that's what I thought... but if I put a receiver and transmitter I could do something like that right? (plane) or would the data rate be to slow?
[09:05] <jcoxon> shawn, http://nt4bg.net/About.aspx
[09:06] <bambi> <eroomde> Tropical Queensland - East Coast
[09:06] <eroomde> shawn: because of the long ranges in ham then we have to slow the rate right down
[09:06] <eroomde> which buys you more range
[09:06] <eroomde> i think it would probably be a bit slow for real-time plane control
[09:06] <fsphil> bambi: I'm heading there in November :)
[09:07] <fsphil> I bet you can guess why :)
[09:07] <bambi> may I ask some technical questioins please?
[09:07] <UpuWork> oh hi bambi :)
[09:08] <UpuWork> glad you found us :)
[09:08] <bambi> ((sorry this is my foirst time to us irc too))
[09:08] <UpuWork> its ok as someone once said its like multiplayer notepad
[09:09] <UpuWork> Darkside is also from oz so should be able to give you some advice on legalty etc
[09:09] <bambi> its a chat room - yes?
[09:09] <UpuWork> oh yes this was a chat room before chat rooms were invented
[09:09] <eroomde> yep
[09:09] <bambi> ah OK I have heard some of my friend who play role playing games mention irc
[09:09] <eroomde> the old internet
[09:10] <UpuWork> oh don't worry we don't do rold playing here
[09:10] <UpuWork> role
[09:10] <UpuWork> tends to be more technical :)
[09:10] <gonzo_> internet with valves (tubed for our US op's)
[09:10] <UpuWork> old internet :) thats for sure
[09:10] <gonzo_> tubes
[09:10] Action: eroomde smites UpuWork for his impertinence
[09:10] Action: UpuWork roles a D97 and strikes eroomde down with a large ball of fire
[09:10] <UpuWork> etc
[09:11] <fsphil> uhoh
[09:11] Action: fsphil is having flashbacks
[09:11] <UpuWork> :)
[09:11] <bambi> here in Australia we do not have coverage everywhere for mobile phones - so that means access to the spacenear.us website etc is not always possible. Is there a locel (not internet) version of something similar available to use in the tracking vehicles?
[09:11] <UpuWork> ping Darkside
[09:11] <fsphil> there is but I can't remember the name of it
[09:11] <fsphil> mr.Darkside will know
[09:11] <UpuWork> Darkside bambi wants to see your gimp-mobile
[09:11] <UpuWork> err pimp
[09:11] <UpuWork> lol
[09:11] <bambi> what is 'ping' please?
[09:11] <shawn> so from what I understand a ham can transmit... a very long way. So my next question would be how hard would it be to keep up with something moving around long distances? would one ham do it? or would it need to be repeated a lot? ok maybe I don't really know much lol :)
[09:12] <UpuWork> it should make their client blink and flash so we know they are wanted on channel
[09:12] <UpuWork> shawn depends how far the payload goes, normally you only launch when the prediction is good
[09:12] <UpuWork> www.habhub.org/predict works world wide
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[09:13] <jcoxon> shawn, it should be possible for one person to follow
[09:13] <jcoxon> but the more people the better
[09:13] <bambi> There is a group in Adelaidew that has apparentlky written their own softward to do this - they told me thats how they did it but I am not a coder
[09:13] <UpuWork> yeah solo tracking is very hard
[09:13] <eroomde> bambi: yes that's Darkside
[09:14] <UpuWork> bambi as long as you can recieve the payload transmissions you have its location so you can use other methods
[09:14] <UpuWork> Motion-X GPS on the iPhone does a great job
[09:14] <UpuWork> stand alone application that doesn't need internet
[09:15] <gonzo_> worst case youi could use the manual method of cut and paste the lat/long that is received in the balloon downlink and paste it into a sttand alone map prog
[09:16] <bambi> UpuWork> Thank you - I have an android - yes I can probably track the capsule and I will know where I am but it woyuld be nice to have it on one screen like spacenear.us
[09:18] <bambi> may I ask about the hardware in the capsule? I am planning to follow the guide in UKHAS with the ardunio and the radiometrix transmitter
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[09:19] <UpuWork> you may ask whatever you want :)
[09:19] <UpuWork> you don't need to ask if you can ask :)
[09:20] <bambi> re:hardware - is that guide on UKHAS current or are there newer ways?
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[09:21] <UpuWork> for the NTX2 ?
[09:21] <UpuWork> generally there are 2 radio modules used in HAB in the UK anyway
[09:21] <UpuWork> NTX2 and the RFM22B
[09:22] <shawn> wow it must be a very common unit of discussion
[09:22] <UpuWork> other people have used different radios
[09:22] <UpuWork> as a beginner the NTX2 is probably the easiest to work with
[09:22] <UpuWork> the RFM is a little more flexible
[09:22] <UpuWork> but yes as a guide its current
[09:23] <bambi> UpuWork> Ah Ok I have sorced a vendor in Tasmania and found out we can use 25mW here
[09:23] <UpuWork> if you do want a NTX2 from my store please speak to me first
[09:23] <shawn> ok
[09:23] <UpuWork> I think thats the case bambi though 10mW is more than adequate
[09:23] <UpuWork> in the air anyway
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[09:23] <shawn> so if I wanted to send video would a iphone be the cheapest and best option?
[09:24] <bambi> I have purchased a used Yaesu VR-500 communications receiver for the reception
[09:24] <UpuWork> does that do USB on 70cms ?
[09:25] <UpuWork> looks like it does
[09:25] <bambi> I have used the flight predictor and it seems to stope the capsule landing in the Coral Sea I will have to travel about 300km inland for the launch
[09:25] <UpuWork> well that will change bambi
[09:25] <UpuWork> depends on the winds
[09:25] <griffonbot> @IraatxeL: Da gusto despertarse con buenas noticias #HABE2 gainditutaaaaa [http://twitter.com/IraatxeL/status/211026205820993536]
[09:26] <bambi> UpuWork> it has SSB on the frequency of the NTX2
[09:26] <UpuWork> sorted then
[09:26] <shawn> how high does cell signal go anyways?
[09:26] <bambi> isOh you have a store?
[09:26] <jonsowman> shawn: 5km if you're lucky
[09:26] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store
[09:26] <jonsowman> more like 2-3 normally
[09:26] <bambi> < looks...
[09:26] <shawn> well, thats no good is it?
[09:26] <UpuWork> there is discount availble as you have found your way here just speak to me if and when your ready to order
[09:26] <shawn> :(
[09:27] <jonsowman> shawn: indeed
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[09:27] <jonsowman> don't rely on GSM
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[09:27] <shawn> well I am glad I found this irc other wise I would have a lost ballon lol
[09:28] <bambi> UpuWork>thank you
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[09:29] <bambi> I have a GPS GSM tracker ordered for when the capsule is about 1km aweay if its in a moble phone zone
[09:30] <UpuWork> as a backup they are fine... trust me I know :)
[09:31] <shawn> So I'm just woundering for a receiver and transmitter what would one of these ntx2s cost?
[09:31] <bambi> cool - I have been researching as much as I can but its nice to talk to experienced launchers :)
[09:31] <shawn> I agree with bambi
[09:32] <bambi> This all started when an episode of James May (Top Gear)'s Man Lab was broadcast here which featured HAB
[09:32] <UpuWork> hah
[09:32] <daveake> All UpuWork's fault then
[09:32] <UpuWork> behind the scenes pictures bambi : https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201107ManLab
[09:32] <bambi> oh you were involved with that?
[09:32] <bambi> < looks...
[09:33] <UpuWork> Mainly Rob Harrison and Steve Randal but yes I was there
[09:33] <bambi> cool
[09:33] <russss> pretty much everyone who does HAB in the UK is either in this channel or known by someone in this channel
[09:34] <bambi> my profession is in the video and stills photography field (not HAM radios) - so the mainj aim of the project is for imagery
[09:34] <UpuWork> to be honest thats where I came from
[09:34] <UpuWork> never used a radio before I got involved in this
[09:35] <bambi> I am working on a stabilizing system for the main camera in all axis with amall gyro's
[09:35] <UpuWork> generally the payloads just spin about
[09:35] <UpuWork> however sometimes this spin can be put to good use
[09:35] <shawn> alright so if I have to get a ham receiver and transmitter that will do video. What would be the best cheap way.
[09:36] <UpuWork> bambi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8cOzkUeso4&list=UUGkq3Q2JQhN_ChjcPPwAW3A&index=9&feature=plcp
[09:36] Action: daveake predicts UpuWork about to post a link to a patchwork picture
[09:36] <UpuWork> ah hah foiled!
[09:36] <UpuWork> thats how slowly the payload was spinning
[09:36] <daveake> damn!
[09:36] <UpuWork> which means you can then patch pictures together
[09:36] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/IMG_6480_stitch.jpg
[09:36] <UpuWork> :)
[09:37] <UpuWork> one picture every 10 seconds
[09:37] <UpuWork> so basically doing what you do when you take a panorama with a not so wide angle camera
[09:38] <bambi> < looks...
[09:38] <UpuWork> shawn would probably suggest you make a payload you can track first
[09:38] <UpuWork> then try beaming video down later as thats more complex
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[09:39] <daveake> UpuWork Latest payload, slightly pink http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/7163524101/in/set-72157630074184822
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[09:39] <bambi> Oh Wow! super photo!
[09:40] <UpuWork> oo tidy
[09:40] <shawn> well I really just want to hit all bases in one go since Im on a budget. I might do this 2 or 3 times then I'm done. I just want to beable to say i did it, with streaming video.. which is not common is it?
[09:40] <UpuWork> needs more frankenpayload https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203AvaLaunch2GroundPhotosASIxus210#5728379550352605474 <- :0)
[09:40] <bambi> I hear there are some launches planned for this weekend?
[09:40] <UpuWork> "don't put anything sticking out on it"
[09:40] <daveake> lol
[09:41] <UpuWork> yes a number in the UK bambi on sunday
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[09:41] <UpuWork> shawn not common no
[09:41] <bambi> I followed some last weekend on spacenear.us
[09:41] <bambi> did that onje that was going over Ireland - was it recovered?
[09:41] <UpuWork> oh yeah I would suggest you subscribe to the mailing list as well if its of interest
[09:41] <daveake> No, lost. Shame
[09:41] <bambi> UKHAS mailing list?
[09:42] <UpuWork> no the transmitter shutdown, it wasn't meant to be recovered I think was a test flight
[09:42] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:mailing_list
[09:42] <bambi> how was the slititude controlled in that I wonder?
[09:42] <bambi> altitude*
[09:42] <shawn> thats why I kinda wanta do it. I'm pretty sure I was the first person to use triggers in the xbox 360 rapid fire mods so I want to do something else like that. although I know at least one group that did video so I just want to be in the top 50 some where lol
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[09:42] <UpuWork> they Hwoyee 1600g balloons can under certain circumstances and gas fills be made to float
[09:43] <bambi> UpuWork> Thank you I am already on that mailing list since a few days ago :)
[09:43] <UpuWork> shawn I would suggest you locate your local HAM club and go have a chat
[09:43] <UpuWork> they will probably be able to assist you better than we can here
[09:43] <shawn> K
[09:43] <bambi> Yes the ballon side of things I will have to research too
[09:44] <UpuWork> afk a few getting a brew
[09:44] <daveake> milk 1 sugar please
[09:44] <bambi> < gets dessert
[09:44] <shawn> one more question and im done, when the balloon reaches its max height how do you know it will pop? Should I consider making a script that will pop it once it stops rising?
[09:45] <daveake> If you put enough gas in, it will pop.
[09:46] <shawn> lol but what if I dont?
[09:47] <daveake> Depends how underfilled it is
[09:47] <daveake> A bit under and it may float for an hour or two
[09:47] <bambi> shawn: there are phyical ways of releasing the capsule - I found such as a timer that will melt the cord
[09:47] <daveake> A lot under it may survive a day or more
[09:48] <bambi> I dont want mine to fly too ling as it will go out to the Coral sea
[09:49] <shawn> well I was considering a very tiny motor with a scalpel blade next to the balloon.. O.O
[09:49] <shawn> lol
[09:50] <bambi> I think in the USA they require 2 ways of teminating the flight (one was is balloon burst) - I am in the process of finding out the regs here in Australia
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[09:52] <bambi> test - its all quiet?
[09:53] <UpuWork> yep
[09:53] <UpuWork> its quiet :)
[09:53] <bambi> oh its still working t hen :)
[09:53] <bambi> whew
[09:53] <UpuWork> yeah sometimes people shut up
[09:53] <UpuWork> its rare but it does happen
[09:54] <bambi> all the name to the right of screen is this the people who are online?
[09:54] <UpuWork> are you using mIRC ?
[09:55] <UpuWork> oh freenode webchat
[09:55] <UpuWork> yes 94 people online at the moment
[09:56] <bambi> er I just clicked on the line at this site http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:irc_channel
[09:57] <UpuWork> yeah the webchat client
[09:57] <bambi> 94! whwo many listeners
[09:57] <UpuWork> if you start to come here alot I'd suggest a dedicated client
[09:57] <bambi> may I ask what you suggest?
[09:57] <UpuWork> whats your operating system ?
[09:58] <bambi> on this lap top Win 7 32 bit and on desktop Win 7 64 bit
[09:58] <Smrtz> bambi, xchat-wdk
[09:59] <UpuWork> well personally I suggest mIRC www.mirc.co.uk
[09:59] <bambi> OK Thank you . < looks...
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[10:00] <bambi> its downloading...
[10:02] <bambi> oh its pay ware
[10:02] <zamabe> xchat-wdk!
[10:02] <UpuWork> is it ?
[10:02] <zamabe> mirc is.
[10:02] <UpuWork> thought it was freeware sorry
[10:02] <UpuWork> I paid for it in 1996 and am still using that code
[10:03] <eroomde> xchat is free
[10:04] <bambi> ok Thank you
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[10:06] <nosebleedkt_> Good news from air traffic control !
[10:06] <nosebleedkt_> positive news!!!!!
[10:06] <nosebleedkt_> yeah!
[10:06] <nosebleedkt_> happy nosebleed
[10:06] <UpuWork> which is ?
[10:06] <eroomde> hoppy nosebleed
[10:06] <eroomde> lol
[10:07] <daveake> Good nose?
[10:07] <daveake> er news
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[10:07] <nosebleedkt_> they were like wtf is this
[10:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[10:08] <UpuWork> hi Lunar
[10:08] <nosebleedkt_> now they told me to actually make an apply
[10:08] <Lunar_LanderU> hi UpuWork
[10:08] <nosebleedkt_> and describe the mission
[10:08] <Lunar_LanderU> got a question UpuWork
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[10:08] <Lunar_LanderU> on the ublox 6 page it says
[10:08] <Lunar_LanderU> Connect UM232R pin DB0 to pin 4 on the Arduino
[10:08] <Lunar_LanderU> Connect UM232R pin DB1 to pin 5 on the Arduino
[10:08] <Lunar_LanderU> Connect UM232R pin GND to GND on the Arduino
[10:08] <Lunar_LanderU> why is that?
[10:09] <UpuWork> because thats what I put in the code
[10:09] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[10:09] <UpuWork> you are linking the UM232R to the Arduino to set up software serial
[10:09] <Lunar_LanderU> so you have like the GPS writing to arduino, and from arduino via UM232R to PC?
[10:09] <UpuWork> correct
[10:09] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[10:09] <UpuWork> it means you can put the GPS on a hardware UART
[10:09] <UpuWork> i.e pins 0 and 1 on the Arduino
[10:10] <Lunar_LanderU> can I leave out the UM232R now that I have multiple UARTs on the mega?
[10:10] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[10:10] <UpuWork> yes you can
[10:10] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[10:10] <UpuWork> you don't need the UM232R
[10:10] <Lunar_LanderU> so I can have it on UART 1
[10:10] <UpuWork> yep you can
[10:10] <Lunar_LanderU> rewrite the code to have Serial1
[10:10] <Lunar_LanderU> and then mySerial gets turned to Serial
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[10:10] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[10:10] <Lunar_LanderU> nosebleedkt_: bureaucracy?
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[10:11] <bambi> <Smrtz> I cant get the google program find here
[10:12] <Lunar_LanderU> see you all later
[10:12] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks again UpuWork
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[10:18] <bambi> Ok its getting a bit technical for me so maybe its time to go - thank you for all your kind advice <UpuWork
[10:18] <nosebleedkt_> im so happy !
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[10:18] <UpuWork> welcome anytime
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[10:19] <bambi> < leaves...
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[10:23] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
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[11:12] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: still all go for Sun?
[11:13] <WillDuckworth> yep - still go :) - just checking prediction and seems ok. Sat has changed a lot, sun same
[11:13] <WillDuckworth> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=da5edff2e90c25b076844790261184a6a9e4e341
[11:13] <cuddykid> awesome :D
[11:14] <cuddykid> shouldn't take long to get there - straight down M5 then M50 I'm guessing
[11:14] <daveake> Yeah, I've been looking at how close to the launch site I can get mine to land :)
[11:14] <cuddykid> weather is looking better as well for Sunday :D
[11:15] <daveake> For here, Saturday is almost sunny, but too windy
[11:15] <daveake> Sunday has showers but little wind
[11:17] <WillDuckworth> fingers crossed
[11:18] <cuddykid> craziness - google maps is trying to route me through worcs and malvern - I think the motorway would be a much better bet
[11:18] <daveake> It once gave me Dublin --> Dublin via the Holyhead ferry
[11:19] <cuddykid> lol
[11:21] <WillDuckworth> might come over and grap that pipe later if that's ok?
[11:21] <WillDuckworth> grab
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[11:26] <daveake> woohoo permission through.
[11:26] <fsphil> git
[11:26] <daveake> He does like to leave it late
[11:26] <daveake> lol
[11:26] <fsphil> I mean, yay
[11:26] <daveake> :D
[11:27] <daveake> I did send a reminder, in the guise of an email saying not to bother for Saturday only for Sunday
[11:27] <daveake> Even got "Best wishes for good weather on Sunday"
[11:28] <WillDuckworth> i reckon we should invite him to the conference
[11:28] <UpuWork> who David ?
[11:29] <WillDuckworth> yeah
[11:29] <UpuWork> Invited him last year
[11:29] <daveake> What did he say?
[11:29] <UpuWork> mumbled something about it was the annual Gimp Conference and he couldn't make it
[11:29] <UpuWork> not really he politely said no
[11:29] <daveake> lol
[11:30] <eroomde> he was probably very busy, you know
[11:30] <eroomde> he's really very busy at the moment
[11:30] <eroomde> for all moments
[11:31] <jonsowman> true
[11:31] <UpuWork> lol
[11:47] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: sure, drop me a text when you're heading over :)
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[11:47] <cuddykid> haha eroomde
[11:47] <cuddykid> he never leaves his desk
[11:47] <cuddykid> sleeps in the office under piles of NOTAM applications
[11:48] <jonsowman> i remind you all that this channel is publically logg3ed
[11:48] <jonsowman> *logged
[11:48] <eroomde> we need a pseudonym, that's all
[11:49] <eroomde> mavid diller
[11:49] <jonsowman> haha
[11:50] <cuddykid> but.. I have to say - he does seem to have improved significantly over the past few months
[11:50] <eroomde> we probably just had Miller Lite in the past
[11:51] <cuddykid> trial version
[11:56] <fsphil> shareware
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[12:00] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Re: HELP with Ublox config"
[12:01] <thecduck> hi guys!
[12:02] <jonsowman> afternoon
[12:02] <fsphil> hihi
[12:02] <thecduck> do you know if there is a simple way to interface dl-fldigi with PHP via GET/POST etc.?
[12:02] <cuddykid> ooo.. I'd like to know that too :D
[12:03] <jonsowman> it has an XMLRPC interface
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[12:03] <Lunar_LanderU> back
[12:03] <jonsowman> http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.12/xmlrpc-control.html
[12:03] <jonsowman> sorry this one appears more up to date
[12:03] <jonsowman> http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.20/xmlrpc-control.html
[12:03] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: I tried your "GPS Level convertor board test script"
[12:03] <fsphil> mmm... rtty demodulator in javascript
[12:04] <jonsowman> oh god that sounds like a terrible idea
[12:04] <fsphil> so terrible it might happen ;)
[12:04] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: I have wired the power supply to the voltage regulator and the batteries, so that the GPS gets its 3.3V and then TX and RX go to UART 1
[12:04] <thecduck> jonsowman: thanks, I'll have a look!
[12:04] <Lunar_LanderU> I replaced all the Serials with Serial1 and mySerial with Serial
[12:04] <jonsowman> thecduck: https://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC
[12:04] <jonsowman> that's one of the guys on here using a php web interface to talk to fldigi
[12:05] <thecduck> fantastic!
[12:05] <Lunar_LanderU> then, when starting the serial monitor, I get the lines about "initializing" and so on, then it prints the HEX command, then "*Reading ACK Response" but then always ends in "FAILURE!"
[12:05] <jonsowman> the fldigi docs tell you all you need
[12:05] <thecduck> thanks a ton
[12:05] <jonsowman> no prob
[12:05] <Lunar_LanderU> (I know it says FAILED in the code but I changed it to FAILURE)
[12:05] <cuddykid> that would be cool fsphil :P
[12:05] <fsphil> like websdr, but without java. and no java is always good
[12:05] <cuddykid> exactly
[12:06] <Lunar_LanderU> any ideas if UpuWork isn't available at the moment?
[12:06] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil: XD!
[12:06] <fsphil> if he's not answering, odds are he's not available
[12:07] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[12:07] <fsphil> secret agent work takes up a lot of time
[12:07] <fsphil> ah crap, wasn't suppose to mention that
[12:07] <Lunar_LanderU> ROFL
[12:09] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - WDHAB Launch ~0800GMT from Ledbury and BUZZ/ANU/XABEN Launches from Brightwalton - Sunday 10th June
[12:09] <jonsowman> busy weekend
[12:09] <jonsowman> might have the southampton POP launch on monday as well, if it's not raining
[12:09] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[12:10] <Lunar_LanderU> do you three have an idea on the problem?
[12:11] <Lunar_LanderU> does the ublox need lock to accept the airborne command
[12:11] <Lunar_LanderU> ?
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[12:18] <Lunar_LanderU> well fsphil, jonsowman, UpuWork see you later
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[12:20] <neal__> Hi Peeps
[12:20] <daveake> ping jonsowman
[12:20] <jonsowman> hi daveake
[12:20] <daveake> Afternoon :)
[12:20] <jonsowman> was going to ask for about a time for your lot
[12:20] <jonsowman> neal__: hi
[12:20] <daveake> The channel title ...
[12:21] <daveake> ... XABEN is from Elsworth I assume
[12:21] <jonsowman> i was wondering
[12:21] <jonsowman> steve didn't say
[12:21] <daveake> Yeah, I only have permission for 2 launches and Steve's not asked, so it'll probably be from there
[12:21] <jonsowman> daveake: what time are you/dave² launching?
[12:22] <daveake> Put down 10am for ANU and 11am for Buzz
[12:22] <jonsowman> right
[12:22] <fsphil> dave squared?
[12:23] <jonsowman> number10
[12:23] <fsphil> aah
[12:23] <fsphil> dave^10
[12:24] <daveake> For those with long memories, Jasper Carrott used to have a weekly sketch "Dave the cardboard box". Well, this is "Dave the polystyrene box"
[12:25] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[12:25] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - WDHAB Launch ~0800GMT from Ledbury, XABEN Launch from Elsworth and BUZZ (1000GMT)/ANU (1100GMT) Launches from Brightwalton - Sunday 10th June
[12:25] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[12:25] <jonsowman> long topic is long
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[12:29] <daveake> :)
[12:30] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Brightwalton Launches 9th or 10th June"
[12:31] <jonsowman> i should get on with my multiple payload decoder
[12:31] <daveake> :)
[12:31] <jonsowman> then i could decode all 4 balloons on one radio
[12:32] <daveake> That would be very very nice
[12:32] <jonsowman> yeah
[12:32] <jonsowman> should be totally doable
[12:32] <daveake> so do it
[12:32] <daveake> :p
[12:32] <jonsowman> gnuradio is just a bit... fun
[12:32] <gonzo_> what you using as an rx for that?
[12:32] <jonsowman> gonzo_: SDR
[12:32] <eroomde> presumably you need a bunch of recievers?
[12:32] <gonzo_> what sort?
[12:32] <eroomde> else the gains needed will all be different
[12:33] <jonsowman> the rtl
[12:33] <jonsowman> eroomde: so thing thing can downconvert all of 433-435MHz
[12:33] <eroomde> yeah sure i realise that
[12:33] <eroomde> but presumably only at a single gain
[12:33] <jonsowman> yeah the frontend gain will have to be fixed
[12:33] <eroomde> so one balloon might be 15dB fainter than the other
[12:34] <gonzo_> ah ok. Otherwise the BW of most sdr's is not wide enough for the sort of chan spread that we usually get
[12:34] <jonsowman> gonzo_: yeah, the funcube can only do about 85kHz iirc
[12:34] <eroomde> even if you can theoretically see the both, there probably isn't the dynamic range in the sampler to give you both when they're at different power levels
[12:34] <eroomde> unless it's like a 24bit adc
[12:34] <gonzo_> sdr-iq id 190khz, sdr14 is 2meg I think
[12:35] <jonsowman> eroomde: it's only an 8 bit adc
[12:35] <jonsowman> which is a shame
[12:35] <eroomde> mmm
[12:35] <jonsowman> but then it did cost £10
[12:35] <eroomde> all might be lost
[12:35] <gonzo_> qr1s is an interesting unit though
[12:35] <jonsowman> still, the gnuradio filtering and agc might make up for it a bit
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[12:35] <eroomde> i tried the other day when there were 2 balloons up in the same 3khz passband
[12:35] <jonsowman> i realise that's not the same as variable RF gain
[12:35] <eroomde> one radio, 2 laptops each running dlfldigi
[12:36] <eroomde> but alas you just couldn't get the weaker one when the gain was set for the stronger one
[12:36] <jonsowman> hmm
[12:36] <gonzo_> I've done three. SDR-IQ with ywo decode windows to two instances of fldigi and a third on the radio demod
[12:37] <eroomde> you could maybe do some wierd shizzle like a log amplifier
[12:37] <gonzo_> but limited to hacing a 190kHz width still and the radio demod is by definition at the centra of that swath
[12:37] <eroomde> to get the weaker signals up into a similar range for the 8 bit adc as the strong ones
[12:37] <daveake> I've had that when testing ... I had 2 payloads nominally on the same frequency but actually a kHz or so apart. One next to the receiver and the other in another room. Couldn't see the distant one at all unless I switched the close one off.
[12:38] <eroomde> yeah you've not got many dB to play with
[12:38] <eroomde> i think separate receivers would be the way
[12:38] <eroomde> or a much higher resolution adc
[12:38] <gonzo_> the problem is, the really strong one causes the agc to compress
[12:38] <daveake> yep, that's what happened
[12:38] <gonzo_> but has not got to be too far away for the agc to stop actin
[12:39] <gonzo_> (or mod the radio to disable the agc)
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> Then you get overload
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> which is even worse
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[12:39] <eroomde> i think you need a bit of adc and then as high a resolution sampler as your bandwith will allow
[12:40] <jonsowman> it's a shame the rtl dongles don't have better adcs
[12:40] <eroomde> yeah. well, it starts to get expensive
[12:40] <eroomde> and usb struggles
[12:40] <jonsowman> yes indeed
[12:41] <jonsowman> also 8 bit is fine for DVB
[12:41] <gonzo_> interesting, theb 817 has an agc disable option in the menu. No need to start hacking inside
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Also - neglecting other stuff - is you have a faster sampler - say 360KHz over a 180KHz bandwidth - and you are sampling a 3KHz bandwidth signal in that band - does the 30-fold faster sampling rate give you sqrt(30) - ~5dB deeper than the ADC LSB might lead you to suspect?
[12:42] <eroomde> http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ad9262/products/product.html
[12:42] <eroomde> something like that
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Ah - no
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> Or yes.
[12:43] Action: SpeedEvil is confused.
[12:43] Action: SpeedEvil should not try to do this sort of stuff in his head.
[12:44] <eroomde> that adc claims to give you 87db dynamic range
[12:45] Action: SpeedEvil tries to work out how SNR works for sigma-delta at high frequencies.
[12:45] Action: SpeedEvil explodes.
[12:46] <eroomde> which to a crude calc is about 20,000 times voltage level between weakest and strongest, which is about 150 times distance between nearest balloon and farthest
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> Is it essentially oversampling the beat frequency between the sigma-delta 'carrier' and the input freq?
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> I understand how it works for DC
[12:50] <eroomde> it is quite windy here.
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> Moderately here too
[12:53] <gonzo_> blame the pickled eggs
[12:57] <daveake> Wind is getting worse here. I say un oeuf is enough
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> Random question - anyone have a supplier for fibreglass stuff (the construction sort, not the hobby sort) online?
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> cfsnet.co.uk is quite good - wondering if there were any other recommendations
[13:05] <neal__> anyone know why i can hear a morse station on 343.200mhz in southwest uk?
[13:06] <fsphil> what's it saying?
[13:06] <neal__> lol i cant read morse
[13:06] Action: Laurenceb is currently getting angry with adcs
[13:06] <Laurenceb> my ltc2481 has loads of noise
[13:06] <fsphil> get fldigi, it can decode morse
[13:06] <neal__> every 15 mins or so
[13:06] <fsphil> or make a recording of it, someone here might be able to tell
[13:07] <Laurenceb> maybe eroomde can help?
[13:07] <fsphil> sometimes random noises can sound a bit like morse though, it could just be from a local device like a router
[13:07] <neal__> sounds like a ham repeater
[13:07] <Laurenceb> how do sigma delta ADCs cope with noise on the ref p[ins?
[13:07] <fsphil> esp. if it's quite fast morse
[13:07] <neal__> not fast
[13:07] <fsphil> interesting
[13:08] <neal__> didnt think it was ham frequency in uk
[13:08] <fsphil> it's not
[13:08] <neal__> geting it 5/7 near taunton
[13:09] <fsphil> I think the military operate around the 300mhz frequencies
[13:09] <neal__> best not say hello then
[13:10] <fsphil> "Aeronautical Radionavagation"
[13:10] <griffonbot> Received email: =?utf-8?Q?John_Underwood?= "RE: [UKHAS] Re: HELP with Ublox config"
[13:10] <fsphil> you near any airports?
[13:10] <neal__> 40 mile from 3
[13:11] <fsphil> could be from one of them
[13:12] <neal__> yeah maybe
[13:12] <fsphil> I'd love to fly an rtl-sdr some day, recording the 2m ham band -- see what it can hear at 30km
[13:12] <fsphil> probably take up too much disk space
[13:13] <neal__> wots one of them
[13:13] <fsphil> little DVB-T dongles for receiving digital telly
[13:13] <fsphil> some smart people figured out how to use them as a general radio receiver
[13:13] <fsphil> an SDR
[13:13] <neal__> cool
[13:14] <fsphil> it has enough bandwidth to record the entire UK 2m ham band in one go
[13:14] <fsphil> well, most of it
[13:14] <neal__> interesting
[13:15] <neal__> how does that work
[13:15] <fsphil> they're also very cheap :)
[13:16] <fsphil> I'd probably confuse you if I tried to explain it
[13:16] <WillDuckworth> go for it fsphil
[13:16] <fsphil> lol
[13:16] Action: UpuWork gets the pop corn
[13:17] <neal__> is there an app for that
[13:17] <WillDuckworth> http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/rtl-sdr
[13:19] <neal__> why didnt you just say The RTL2832U outputs 8-bit I/Q-samples, and the highest theoretically possible sample-rate is 3.2 MS/s, however, the highest sample-rate without lost samples that has been tested so far is 2.8 MS/s. The frequency range is highly dependent of the used tuner, dongles that use the Elonics E4000 offer the widest possible range (64 - 1700 MHz with a gap from approx. 1100 - 1250 MHz). When used out-of-spec, a tun
[13:20] <fsphil> that's what I was about to say
[13:20] <fsphil> *ahem*
[13:21] <neal__> sorta get it
[13:22] <neal__> but even at 30km 2m would still be boring!
[13:24] <chris_99> are you allowed to launch a plane from 30km and control it from the ground
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[13:25] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: Not really.
[13:25] <jdtanner_> Afternoon all.
[13:25] <chris_99> pity :(
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: There is some language about it being required to be 'in view' - I don't think there is an actual hard altitude limit.
[13:26] <chris_99> ah, so that's for all RC things
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> Then there are the seperate UAV regulations
[13:28] <chris_99> even in the UK?
[13:28] <russss> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/3015/article/166/made
[13:29] <russss> "The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions.
[13:29] <russss> "
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[13:29] <russss> the UAV thing is if it's a "Small unmanned surveillance aircraft" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/3015/article/167/made
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[13:29] <chris_99> does putting a camera on it count as direct visual
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> 'direct unaided'
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> That could actually be done at night with LEDs
[13:30] <chris_99> heh good idea
[13:30] <Lunar_LanderU> hello again
[13:31] <Lunar_LanderU> I just had my GPS outside and it got lock, still the other program only returns a negative result
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[13:35] <Lunar_LanderU> sometimes it says "Reading ACK Response: B562(FAILURE!)
[13:35] <Lunar_LanderU> somtimes it leaves out the B562
[13:40] <jdtanner_> Maybe a softeware serial problem?
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[13:41] <Lunar_LanderU> did anyone hear of that problem before?
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[13:41] Nick change: russss_ -> russss
[13:42] <jdtanner_> I've had loads of problems with Software Serial :/
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> ah I don't use software serial
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> I got a mega
[13:42] <jdtanner_> Ah yes...I forgot :)
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> and I attached the GPS to UART 1 and accordingly changed every Serial in the code to Serial1
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> and mySerial was turned into Serial
[13:42] <Lunar_LanderU> is the GPS even compatible with arduino mega?
[13:44] <jdtanner_> Erm, it is just serial...so I can't see why not
[13:44] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[13:44] <Lunar_LanderU> I don't get it
[13:45] <Lunar_LanderU> and I'm starting to get very tired again
[13:45] <Lunar_LanderU> I already checked the hex sequence that is sent
[13:45] <Lunar_LanderU> that seems to be correct
[13:45] <Lunar_LanderU> wiring is correct also
[13:46] <jdtanner_> Have you allowed for a small delay before trying to issue the command (I presume you are trying to set the Ublox in airborne mode)
[13:48] <jdtanner_> I've reused and rewritten quite a bit of other people's code...not having any problems at that stage.
[13:50] <jdtanner_> Has anyone had anu experience of using a DS18B20 or are people using something else? Ideally I'd like a combined temp/pressure sensor :)
[13:52] <Lunar_LanderU> GPS is also battery powered, so current is sufficient
[13:52] <Lunar_LanderU> jdtanner_: and yours works?
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[13:52] <eroomde> if only you could get an uncombined pressure and temperature sensor, what a thing that would be
[13:53] <Lunar_LanderU> jdtanner_: yeah that is what I am trying
[13:53] <Lunar_LanderU> and it is like having 3 seconds where it is waiting and then returns FAILURE
[13:53] <eroomde> unhelpful instrumentation engineer joke sorry
[13:53] <Lunar_LanderU> but let me try to add a delay at the start of the program
[13:53] <Lunar_LanderU> wait
[13:54] <jdtanner_> eroomde: lol...I mean one that I can query both values :P
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[14:15] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah you can tell it's friday afternoon
[14:16] Action: Elwell can't help but think that this is going to end up wet http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=55f4b889dab14b69b089de3ffb2d291b2790e139
[14:17] <eroomde> jdtanner_: sure i realise, i was just being silly :)
[14:18] <eroomde> i have been doing a lot of experimental work recently where we have about 64 pressure sensors running each test, and they all need to be pretty accurate
[14:18] <jdtanner_> :)
[14:19] <eroomde> so calibration and tap-line compoensation and non-ideal-gas-ification have been on the brain
[14:19] <eroomde> it all gets a bit upsetting
[14:19] <jdtanner_> you need a beer
[14:19] <eroomde> would be just to just have a sensor that gives you a number which is the pressure
[14:19] <eroomde> and everything should run off helium too, which behaves
[14:20] <Laurenceb> eroomde: I have pressure sensor issues atm :P
[14:20] <Laurenceb> do you think noise on the ref input of a sigma-delta adc will be bad?
[14:20] <Laurenceb> as in - much worse than noise on vcc
[14:22] <Laurenceb> cuz ive got ref tied to vcc, but its being really badly behaved
[14:23] <eroomde> so the last couple of boards i've used one of the AD precision voltage refs
[14:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "[UKHAS] UoS Physics Outreach Project Launch Announcement, Monday 11th
[14:24] <eroomde> and its been really good
[14:24] <eroomde> it also saves calibration
[14:24] <eroomde> it's very low noise and good to about 0.1% which is usually my threshold of good enough
[14:24] <Laurenceb> i dont really follow how the linear tech stuff works
[14:25] <Laurenceb> seems to be crazy cap networks going off the ref and input pins
[14:26] <Laurenceb> no datasheet specs on how ref noise effects it
[14:26] <Laurenceb> im seeing orders of mag more noise than i should
[14:27] <eroomde> hrm
[14:27] <eroomde> you've not got anything crazy like an spi clock trace routed underneath the adc?
[14:27] <Laurenceb> nope
[14:28] <Laurenceb> layout isnt ideal tho
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[14:28] <Laurenceb> ill try it with nothing else running on the analogue rail i guess
[14:29] <Laurenceb> its the 26pc01smt, i think you used it on drop test stuff?
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[14:30] <eroomde> remind me
[14:30] <eroomde> with a link
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[14:30] <eroomde> drop test design was about 3 years ago now so it's all foggy
[14:30] <Laurenceb> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Honeywell/26PC01SMT/?qs=pLJKYPamQJz6XXJZd5cRG9oV4Sq7xEq4
[14:31] <Laurenceb> the stupidly small output sensor
[14:33] <Laurenceb> shorting the adc inputs and the noise is still there
[14:37] <eroomde> we didn't use that one i'm afraid
[14:37] <eroomde> tho similar
[14:37] <eroomde> Laurenceb: that's odd. so what could be a cause of noise on this board?
[14:37] <eroomde> smps?
[14:37] <eroomde> is it in a box?
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> Is there an electric eel in the box?
[14:43] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
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[14:44] <Laurenceb> there is an smps yes
[14:44] <Laurenceb> but ive scoped _everything_
[14:44] <Laurenceb> *a
[14:45] <Laurenceb> theres a few mv peak to peak on the adc supply
[14:45] <Laurenceb> which is about the only thing i can think of, unless linear tech are lying in the datasheet
[14:45] <Laurenceb> but the noise isnt guassian
[14:46] Action: Laurenceb heads of for a meeting
[14:48] <Laurenceb> as in the waste of time people try to justify their jobs type
[14:48] <gonzo_> never been to any other sort!
[14:52] <fsphil> we should have a meeting about that
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[14:54] <eroomde> i had a dinner meeting on tues eve
[14:54] <eroomde> it was great because it was an accident
[14:55] <gonzo_> location of meeting: Golgafrinchian 'B' ark
[14:55] <eroomde> had alan bond explain some aspect of turbopump fluid dynamics to me on a napkin
[14:55] <eroomde> i have kept the napkin
[14:55] <Lunar_LanderU> gonzo_: XD!
[14:55] <Lunar_LanderU> OK see you later everyone!
[14:55] <gonzo_> meetings on a friday arvo is just cruel
[14:55] <eroomde> agreed
[14:56] <eroomde> i am about to leave
[14:56] <eroomde> weeeee
[14:56] <fsphil> they do that at our place
[14:56] <eroomde> feel justifued after my 11pmer last night
[14:56] <eroomde> right bbl
[14:56] <fsphil> "You got a few minutes there Phil..."
[14:56] <eroomde> 'whaaaaats happenin'
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[14:57] <eroomde> 'i'm gonna have to go ahead and ask you to come on it tomorrow'
[14:57] <eroomde> 'so if you could be here maybe 7pm? that'd be greeeeeeeaaaat'
[14:58] <jdtanner_> Anyone used a MPX5100 pressure sensor?
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL> I've used many in that family
[14:59] <jdtanner_> for HAB or just in normal life? :)
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL> oh my hobby is using pressure sensors
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P Hab
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> they work well if you keep them in their rated temp range
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> what do you want to use it for?
[15:00] <jdtanner_> just wondering about flying one to see if it could log barometric pressure
[15:01] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, I've not used one of their absolute sensors, but I don't see why not, if the range is what you need, how high are you going?
[15:01] <Dan-K2VOL> and how much of that sensor's range is your atmospheric pressure range that you'll see?
[15:02] <Dan-K2VOL> the MPX5010DP is a great balloon differential (internal) pressure sensor
[15:02] <jdtanner_> 0 - 30000m I supopose...haven't done much research tbh on pressure sensing
[15:03] <Dan-K2VOL> use digital-dutch.com to find out what pressure range that is
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[15:08] <jdtanner_> 101325pa down to 120pa I think :/
[15:08] <fsphil> might need two sensors, one for high pressure and one for the near-vaccume bits
[15:09] <Dan-K2VOL> so now you want to find the right sensors
[15:09] <jdtanner_> indded....to the datasheet I go ;)
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[15:33] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: HELP with Ublox config"
[15:33] Dan-K2VOL (Dan-K2VOL@pool-71-172-159-166.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) left #highaltitude.
[15:35] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: HELP with Ublox config"
[15:35] <gonzo_> those devices look pretty good. I use dto workn with the bare sensors, with no tempco or linearisation. Had to do all that ourselves
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[15:59] <Lunar_LanderU> hi again for a moment
[15:59] <Lunar_LanderU> is Upu there?
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[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> or is everyone watching UEFA?
[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[16:08] <fsphil> what's that?
[16:08] <jdtanner_> football :(
[16:09] <fsphil> urh
[16:09] <jdtanner_> 22 millionaires falling over for 90 minutes
[16:09] <daveake> 11 of them are Greek, so perhaps not all millionaires :p
[16:10] <Lunar_LanderU> ROFL!
[16:10] <jdtanner_> lol...depends on if they are using the drachma yet ;)
[16:10] <daveake> good point#
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[16:11] <jdtanner_> Oh hang on...wasn't it Italy that had a Billion Lira to the Dollar?
[16:12] <fsphil> the zimbabwe currency was pretty mental for a while there
[16:12] <fsphil> might still be
[16:12] <number10> mexico taxis had officila government multiplication tales as inflation went way above the taxi meters
[16:13] <fsphil> ah, they abandoned the currency
[16:13] <number10> tables
[16:14] <jdtanner_> A pub near here has loads of these 'odd' currencies on the wall...the Zimbabwean ones are 'interesting'
[16:14] <fsphil> 1 billion dollars *dramatic music*
[16:14] <fsphil> might just buy you a pint
[16:15] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[16:16] <jdtanner_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland_shilling ... pretty bonkers currency for a country that doesn;t really exist
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[16:16] <number10> cheers fsphil - I'll take you up on the pint offer ;)
[16:16] <jdtanner_> lol
[16:17] Action: daveake joins queue for free pints
[16:17] <number10> must download zeus logs for the record
[16:17] <G0DJA> Did someone offer free beer?
[16:17] <fsphil> oi!
[16:18] <Lunar_LanderU> country that doesn't exist sounds like Knight Rider
[16:18] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[16:20] Action: Laurenceb is back
[16:20] <Upu> :)
[16:20] <number10_> did you do some trickery there fsphil and get me booted off for my cheek
[16:20] Nick change: Upu -> M0UPU
[16:20] <fsphil> hah
[16:20] <number10_> well don M0UPU
[16:20] <Laurenceb> EN60601 + liability insurance, i have such a zest for life now
[16:20] <fsphil> congrats
[16:20] <M0UPU> ta :)
[16:20] <G0DJA> Well done M0UPU!
[16:20] <number10_> +e
[16:20] <daveake> :D:D
[16:20] <fsphil> lol number10_
[16:20] <fsphil> who me? :)
[16:20] <number10_> :)
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[16:21] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[16:21] <fsphil> I'd buy you all a pint but I'm not sure the pub would accept Zimbabwean dollars
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[16:21] <daveake> Has Upu had his woowoo certificated now?
[16:21] <fsphil> afraid so
[16:21] <M0UPU> my woo woo has been confirmed
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[16:21] <M0UPU> brb growing a beard
[16:21] <daveake> Well he still talk to us mere mortals?
[16:21] <number10_> M0UPU: it will take you a while to catch up with the tracking record of 2E0UPU
[16:22] <nigelvh> What is this word you keep calling a "woo woo"
[16:22] <M0UPU> lol
[16:22] <G0DJA> Don't forget to sew the patches on the elbows of all your jackets as well
[16:22] <fsphil> yes, all stats now reset :)
[16:22] <Lunar_LanderU> hello M0UPU!
[16:22] <M0UPU> meh watch me
[16:22] <daveake> Our local ham doesn't have a beard, but he is the "Tasting Results Co-Ordinator" of the local CAMRA group ...
[16:22] <number10_> and remember to track ANU-3 at the weekend - dont worry about Buzz - daveake has designed a self tracking system ;)
[16:23] <daveake> :D
[16:23] <fsphil> the coast guard?
[16:23] <daveake> self-homing
[16:23] <M0UPU> lol
[16:23] Nick change: M0UPU -> Upu
[16:23] <Lunar_LanderU> Upu: did you have a radio exam?
[16:23] <fsphil> M0NEY
[16:24] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[16:26] <Upu> I did yes Lunar_LanderU and passed
[16:26] <Upu> afk shower time
[16:26] <Lunar_LanderU> cool, congrats!
[16:27] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later
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[16:27] <fsphil> Wonder if anyone called Ron ever got a full callsign
[16:28] <gonzo_mob> i tried to get g0nad
[16:28] <gonzo_mob> could hav Viz t-shirts
[16:29] <gonzo_mob> but northumbri and district club got that
[16:29] <gonzo_mob> wonder if they realised!?
[16:30] <fsphil> probably not at first :)
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[16:33] <fsphil> I'm gonna make sure I get a callsign I can say
[16:39] <G0DJA> Like Gonzo did?
[16:40] <G0DJA> Is M0TOR still available?
[16:44] <nigelvh> M0RSE
[16:44] <nick_> woot
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[16:44] Action: nick_ got some money to buy new sensors.
[16:44] <nick_> Yay for safety!
[16:44] <jim123> hi guys, I'm a noobie to this but was wondering if anyone could help me with a question..
[16:45] <nigelvh> Shoot
[16:45] <jim123> I've read the tutorial about linking a NTX2 to an Arduino, could that be joined with a GPS Arduino shield that you can buy from electronic shops? Thanks
[16:46] <jim123> like this; http://proto-pic.co.uk/adafruit-gps-logger-shield-kit-v1-1/
[16:47] <jim123> with this; http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[16:47] <jim123> would they work in harmony ect
[16:47] <nigelvh> Yes and "carefully" There's no reason why you can't run an NTX2 and a shield at the same time, however, you have to be careful about the GPS you use. Most will not operate above a certain speed or above a certain altitude (The speed is never an issue, the altitude is broken every time)
[16:48] <nigelvh> You have to get certain GPS modules that allow you to break one OR the other, since we only break altitude, they work fine.
[16:48] <jim123> yeah I've read about that whole 50,000ft and 1000mph issue, but aren't there any GPS that will work all the way up to 100k ft?
[16:48] <jim123> ah ok thanks
[16:49] <nigelvh> Most of the guys here use the ublox gps'. Talk to UPU.
[16:50] <nigelvh> He sells all sorts of tidbits that would be helpful.
[16:52] <jim123> cheers for that
[16:52] <edmoore> jim123: The ublox modules are very very good too. You connect them to the arduino with just 4 wires- power, ground, and 2 communication lines, one for talking to the gps and one for listening to the gps
[16:54] <jim123> Im going to try and get my head around the programming for Arduino, and hopefully get a project on the go this summer!
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[17:03] <jim123> with the issue of not all GPS working at high altitude, would it be best to scratch the shield idea? and go directly from the Arduino?
[17:08] <nigelvh> I would.
[17:10] <edmoore> Seconded
[17:11] <jim123> many thanks guys
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[17:25] <Upu> jim123
[17:25] <Upu> 50,000 METERS :)
[17:25] <Upu> aka 168,000 feet
[17:25] <Upu> if you find a way to get a balloon up to 168k feet come speak to us we are all ears
[17:26] <daveake> or at EARS
[17:26] <Upu> its not called EARS anymore its Elsworth :)
[17:27] <daveake> correct
[17:27] <Upu> we seem to be fostering a small puppy thats been abandoned
[17:27] <Upu> the pleasures of having a wife who is a vet
[17:27] <Upu> afk picking up poo
[17:27] <Upu> should have gone for M0POO
[17:28] <daveake> :D
[17:28] <daveake> Upu poo too
[17:28] <fsphil> Oh the puppy's made M0POO
[17:29] <fsphil> how could anyone abandon a puppy
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[17:32] <jim123> hi Upu, so thats what a ublox will go up to, 50,00m?
[17:32] <jim123> 50,000m*
[17:32] <Upu> yes
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[17:32] <jim123> thanks
[17:32] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[17:32] <Upu> see that
[17:33] <Upu> as a totally non random because its my shop example
[17:33] <Upu> afk again will be back in an hour or so
[17:33] <jim123> haha thank you
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[17:48] <Lunar_LanderU> hi jdtanner_
[17:49] <jdtanner_> hey...fixed it yet?
[17:49] <Lunar_LanderU> no
[17:49] <Lunar_LanderU> but I found if I pull the RX wire, the GPS only gives out rubbish
[17:49] <jdtanner_> did that delay not work?
[17:49] <Lunar_LanderU> so somehow the connection is working
[17:49] <jdtanner_> oh...
[17:49] <Lunar_LanderU> no, that didn't fix it
[17:49] <Lunar_LanderU> even increasing delay to 10000 didn't work
[17:49] <jdtanner_> So the GPS isn't workuing properly?
[17:50] <Lunar_LanderU> appearently
[17:50] <daveake> Hold on ... you disconnect Rx on the GPS, and the Arduino then sees rubbish from the UBlox?
[17:51] <jdtanner_> And what do you mean by rubbish...can you paste some of it here?
[17:51] <Lunar_LanderU> the line Arduino TX to GPS RX
[17:52] <daveake> Have a think about why that could be
[17:52] <Lunar_LanderU> no as it is on the laptop, but in the serial monitor there are just those squares instead of letters
[17:52] <daveake> Is the GPS GND connected to Arduino GND?
[17:52] <jdtanner_> (also...is your serial monitor set to the correct baud)
[17:53] <Lunar_LanderU> ok I got a power supply with a voltage regulator for feeding the GPS at 3.3V
[17:53] <daveake> Riiight.....
[17:53] <daveake> and ......
[17:53] <Lunar_LanderU> then, GPX TX and RX are connected to the mega's UART 1
[17:53] <Lunar_LanderU> jdtanner_: yeah, baud is at 9600
[17:53] <daveake> And what's joining GND on the mega to GND on the Ublox?
[17:54] <Lunar_LanderU> nothing, is that a problem?
[17:54] <daveake> Have a guess
[17:55] <Lunar_LanderU> I think yes
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[17:55] <daveake> Well .... the whole idea with electronics is that the electrons go in circles
[17:56] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:56] <Lunar_LanderU> I thought that the power supply thing took care of that
[17:56] <daveake> From battery or power supply, through bits of wire and silicon, back to where they came from
[17:56] <daveake> So for the GPS that's correct
[17:56] <daveake> But now you've also got the mega
[17:57] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:57] <daveake> Which is trying to send electrons along the Tx wire to the UBlox Rx pin
[17:57] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:57] <Lunar_LanderU> truer
[17:57] <Lunar_LanderU> -r
[17:57] <daveake> at which point they get a bit lost
[17:57] <daveake> because there's no return path to the mega
[17:57] <Lunar_LanderU> true
[17:57] <Lunar_LanderU> sorry
[17:57] <fsphil> I had to learn this once too
[17:57] <Lunar_LanderU> I am the stupidiest champion
[17:57] <daveake> Now, the clue was when you said about removing that Rx pin on the ublox
[17:57] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[17:57] <daveake> Normally that should make no difference
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[17:58] <daveake> But in this case, that was the return path
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks daveake
[17:58] <fsphil> I connected my amiga to the C64 once, without knowing anything about electronics. thinking back about it, I now realise it was basically short circuiting every time it sent the bit "1".
[17:58] <daveake> So this probably also explains your problem earlier
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> I have to run now but be back later
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[17:58] <daveake> where the ublox didn't see or ack all the messages
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> later on I can tell you more about
[17:58] <Lunar_LanderU> I am the stupidiest champion
[17:58] <daveake> No thanks lol
[17:59] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[17:59] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later!
[17:59] <daveake> byeeee
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[17:59] <fsphil> the computers both reset when it sent a part of data with too many 1's in it
[17:59] <daveake> silly 1s
[18:00] Action: fsphil knew not about resistors and things
[18:00] <daveake> Our A-level physics teacher wanted to see the waveform for the voltage between 2 points
[18:00] <daveake> So he connected the scope and then got confused with what he saw
[18:01] <daveake> I had to point out that he'd grounded a previously non-grounded point
[18:01] <fsphil> d'oh
[18:02] <fsphil> sounds like something I'd do
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[18:02] <daveake> :)
[18:02] <nosebleedkt> yo
[18:02] <fsphil> hoho
[18:02] <daveake> How was the match? so so?
[18:02] <nosebleedkt> on monday i go to airtraffic offices to apply with the help of an officer the NOTAM :)
[18:03] <nosebleedkt> daveake talking to me ?
[18:03] <fsphil> good luck :)
[18:03] <nosebleedkt> fsphil :p
[18:04] <nosebleedkt> fsphil also tomorrow i get 9 m^3 of helium :)
[18:04] <fsphil> yea I read about that earlier. that's an awful lot!
[18:05] <nosebleedkt> its for 2 missions and party balloons :p
[18:05] <fsphil> hehe, yea I filled a few party balloons with the leftovers
[18:05] <nosebleedkt> hehe
[18:06] <fsphil> when you hoping to fly?
[18:10] <nosebleedkt> 2nd half of july
[18:10] <nosebleedkt> i arranged my holidays with the company for those 2 weeks
[18:11] <fsphil> nice, not long now
[18:11] <fsphil> everything ready?
[18:12] <nosebleedkt> ee
[18:12] <nosebleedkt> i prepare things
[18:12] <nosebleedkt> organise stuff and people
[18:13] <nosebleedkt> i will ask for your advices when time is near
[18:13] <nosebleedkt> payload is yellow like you said
[18:13] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/599323_469648993049150_1749707953_n.jpg
[18:14] <fsphil> nice
[18:14] <daveake> Yellow? Do you have fields like this - http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/TEG1321.jpg ?
[18:14] <nosebleedkt> lol no
[18:14] <nosebleedkt> got blue and green here :)
[18:14] <fsphil> I think Sting is still lost in that field
[18:15] <nosebleedkt> brb
[18:15] <daveake> Many years have passed since those summer days
[18:16] <daveake> Rape seed field, not barley :)
[18:16] <fsphil> haha, it nearly worked
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[18:26] <daveake> :)
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[19:02] <Laurenceb_> http://www.lunix.tv/
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[19:06] <G0DJA> Argh! Just the sight of that oil seed rape field has set my hayfever off!
[19:07] <number10> `most of the flowers have gone from here now
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[19:29] <number10> kitrino kouti i see nosebleedkt
[19:31] <Upu> evening number10
[19:31] <number10> evening Upu
[19:31] <Upu> I passed but I think you worked that out :)
[19:31] <number10> how is the shiney new call sign?
[19:31] <Upu> Not used it yet :)
[19:32] <number10> congratulations
[19:32] <number10> we just need fsphil to do the same next month
[19:32] <Upu> ta
[19:32] <Upu> yeah
[19:33] <number10> you can use it on sunday if you are around and all goes well :)
[19:33] <Upu> yup
[19:33] <Upu> I just fixed Spacenear.us
[19:33] <Upu> ANU3 isn't it ?
[19:33] <number10> yes
[19:34] <number10> yea looks ok, thanks
[19:37] <daveake> I think ANU will probably be before BUZZ, rather than after
[19:37] <number10> in tyhe record table daveake ?
[19:37] <daveake> lol
[19:37] <Upu> can switch them around
[19:37] <daveake> dream on :)
[19:37] <daveake> plz upu
[19:37] <number10> lol
[19:38] <Upu> cond
[19:38] <Upu> done
[19:38] <Upu> exit
[19:38] <Upu> meh
[19:39] <Upu> this kids is why you shouldn't drink Stella
[19:39] <daveake> cheers :)
[19:39] <daveake> lol
[19:39] <number10> lol, dont worry, as yo get older you dont need stella for bad typing
[19:39] <eroomde> you'll eat your wifeb
[19:40] <Upu> :) right need to work out why my radio isn't talking to my PC any more
[19:40] <number10> too many radios and too many PCs Upu - you need to multiplex
[19:40] <daveake> :)
[19:41] <Upu> just one radio
[19:41] <Upu> err pc
[19:41] <daveake> more than one Stella ?
[19:43] <Upu> yeah
[19:43] <Upu> :)
[19:43] <number10> celebration M0UPU - I will have a beer too
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[19:44] <daveake> fsphil is buying
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[19:45] <Smrtz> Were trying to decide on how much helium we'll need to lift our paylode, but our math seems wrong. our balloon was a 20ft 600g balloon, but it seems like we'll need 21.27 cubic feet of helium to lift 600 grams.
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[19:46] <daveake> Sounds about right
[19:46] <Smrtz> ok, cool, thanks, I thought that the 20ft meant 20 cubic feet, not diameter, thanks.
[19:47] <daveake> The 20ft is when fully inflated
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[19:47] <daveake> You won't be inflating it that much
[19:47] <daveake> Evening RocketBoy
[19:48] <RocketBoy> yo yo
[19:48] <Upu> should be BalloonBoy :)
[19:48] <Upu> evening
[19:48] <RocketBoy> yes - I suppose you are right
[19:49] <RocketBoy> what was originally just a way of launching my rockets higher seems to have become my mainstream interest
[19:51] <Upu> back shortly need to reboot to see if it clears this CAT connection issue
[19:51] Upu (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:54d6:2330:26ea:2752) left irc:
[19:52] <number10> evening RocketBoy
[19:53] <number10> nasty weather/wind here at tyhe moment - hope it clears for weekend
[19:53] <RocketBoy> hiya - all set for sunday
[19:53] <RocketBoy> ?
[19:54] Upu (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:e599:1cd2:1f38:3996) joined #highaltitude.
[19:54] <RocketBoy> the elsworth landowner told me i'd need an land anchor
[19:54] <number10> think so
[19:54] <number10> land anchor?
[19:54] <daveake> :-). Supposed to be calm on Sunday
[19:54] <RocketBoy> (he is normally right about the WX)
[19:55] <number10> maybe it will go on longer
[19:55] <RocketBoy> yeah thats what the BBC site says - calmer early on
[19:55] <Upu> change of plan ?
[19:56] <RocketBoy> well no change of plan - the plam was always to see what the weather would bring and make my mind up closer to the time
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[19:57] <Upu> ok
[19:58] <Smrtz> Is there a guide to linking the HAB supplies U-BLOX 6 breakout board to an arduino?
[19:58] <Upu> hey Smrtz
[19:58] <Upu> the 3.3v one ?
[19:58] <Smrtz> Hola Upu
[19:58] <RocketBoy> the I nominate this day/time/frequency is just a recipe for it to change
[19:58] <daveake> :)
[19:58] <Smrtz> yep, to a 3.3v arduino, so I don't need a level converter.
[19:58] <Upu> should be ok RocketBoy no frequency issues
[19:59] <Upu> oh thats easy then Smrtz
[19:59] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=levelconvertor
[19:59] <Smrtz> awesome, thanks again!
[19:59] <Upu> you can follow those instructions
[20:00] <Smrtz> yep
[20:00] <Smrtz> thanks, and to glue the antenna cover on, does it matter where we glue, or just as long as it's attached?
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[20:01] <Upu> I just put a little round the light coloured plastic holder then push the black Radome on
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[20:01] <Smrtz> ok, cool. thats what well do then, thanks
[20:04] <eroomde> this looks really useful, just saying http://www.sarantel.com/products/sl1203
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[20:08] <jdtanner> Quick question for the hive mind&CRC16 or XOR?
[20:09] <eroomde> crc16
[20:09] <daveake> crc16
[20:09] <eroomde> xor has way too many collisions
[20:09] <jdtanner> I'll go with that unless anyone has anoy other strong feelings?
[20:10] <r2x0t> if you really need code with similar properties but less complexity: 16bit fletcher checksum
[20:10] <number10> crc15
[20:10] <jdtanner> Thanks&my code does CRC16 already&so I'll probably stick with that :D Thanks as always!
[20:10] <Smrtz> eroomde, the antenna that Upu puts on his breakout boards is Sarantel, you'll have to ask him the exact type though.
[20:10] <jdtanner> :P
[20:10] <Upu> SL-1202
[20:10] <eroomde> yds i know
[20:11] <eroomde> but this one is sma for mounting off-pcb
[20:11] <Upu> I suspect he knows
[20:11] <Upu> my FT817 won't talk to the PC any more :/
[20:11] <daveake> Either FT817?
[20:12] <Upu> no
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[20:12] <Upu> no idea why
[20:12] <Upu> they TX up when I boot the PC
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[20:12] <r2x0t> TX is just DTR or similar pin
[20:12] <Upu> I've not changed anything
[20:12] <Upu> it was working yesterday
[20:12] <daveake> yeah that's just usb resetting or something
[20:13] <r2x0t> usual problem is them txing when windows are searching for hardware :)
[20:13] <Upu> and the test program detects the 2 com ports
[20:13] <daveake> Did it stop after you tried the 2nd 817?
[20:13] <Upu> I've not put the second one on the Digimaster
[20:13] <daveake> ok
[20:14] <Upu> I changed the baud rate on the main one to 38400 and it worked
[20:14] <Upu> but try today and nothing , put it back to default and nada
[20:14] <number10> oops I see i typed crc15 instead of crc16 sorry jdtanner
[20:14] <daveake> crc error
[20:15] <number10> everyone should ignore my typing unless they have don a crc check on it
[20:16] <eroomde> not that in crc32, 'codding' collides with 'gnu'
[20:16] <eroomde> note*
[20:17] <eroomde> this is a huge pitfall and you must be ultra careful not to Tx 'gnu' when you mean 'codding' because otherwise who knows what havoc will be wreaked on the DL
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[20:27] <choppyhorse> Hey everyone, I have a question. A lot of circuit boards have these 1mm pitch pin connectors on them. What am I supposed to use to connect wires to those? I cannot find some nice connector I can solder some wires into. I am talking about the ones like this: http://www.globalconnectortechnology.com/connector/?series=BC035
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[20:32] <eroomde> choppyhorse: the connectors that go on those headers are usually designed for 2mm ribbon cable
[20:33] <eroomde> the connectors just crimp onto the ribbon cable and cut through the insulation automatically to make the connection
[20:33] <eroomde> it's much less torturous that inividually wiring the connector up
[20:35] <choppyhorse> heh, I was trying to cut apart an IDE cable and use it because I couldn't find one I could crimp new myself.
[20:35] <choppyhorse> ok, thanks, I think I found some on the internet
[20:37] <choppyhorse> unfortunately it seems I will have to order them
[20:38] <daveake> s/2mm/0.5mm/
[20:40] <eroomde> er yes, that way round sorry :)
[20:41] <daveake> long week :D
[20:41] <eroomde> it involves doing a calculation with the pitch and the numbers of rows. i leave the rest to you :)
[20:42] <daveake> "left as an exercise for the reader"
[20:42] <daveake> I wrote some code recently and got the calc wrong. However it gave the correct answer with the 2 sets of input values that I tested with ...
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[20:43] <daveake> ... of course the real world values showed the errror :p
[20:44] <eroomde> i recently worked somewhere where the numerical results of the simulation changed if you changed the *name* of the input config file
[20:44] <eroomde> this is not a bug you want
[20:45] <daveake> !!
[20:45] <daveake> That's an imaginative bug
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[20:49] <choppyhorse> I don't suppose a 0.1" connector will work for the 1mm. That is one I could get locally.
[20:50] <daveake> nopw
[20:50] <eroomde> you could try though anyway
[20:50] <eroomde> it'd be comedy
[20:51] <choppyhorse> my life is already a comedy
[20:51] <eroomde> maybe say 'HULK SMASH!' in a caveman voice as you try it out
[20:53] <daveake> Maybe I should add a hammer to my electronics toolkit
[20:56] <choppyhorse> a sledge and chainsaw
[20:57] <choppyhorse> and 1 nuclear warhead
[20:58] <Smrtz> Upu, should I put the U-BLOX module in the paylode so that the antenna sticks out, or will it be able to penetrate threw the cardboard/styrafoam box?
[20:58] <Upu> works through container
[20:58] <Upu> no problems at all
[20:58] <Smrtz> ok, cool
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[21:23] Action: Laurenceb_ is filling in risk assessment forms
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> funtimes
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> i think i have a new hypothesis
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> all triple point failures can result in global thermonuclear war
[21:25] <Smrtz> Hey Upu, I used RAW for 5v, should I have used VCC? I'm connecting the mini pro to the U-BLOX, not setting it up to be programed
[21:25] <Upu> VCC on the 3.3V Arduino should be the one you want
[21:25] <Upu> 3.3v/VCC
[21:25] <Upu> I think the reg on that should have enough jucie to power the GPS
[21:27] <Smrtz> Ok, thanks, and the GND doesn't matter? Theres two.
[21:27] <Upu> no you need to link GND on the GPS to GND on the Arduinio
[21:27] <Upu> de ja vu ?
[21:28] <Upu> sure the channel has had this conversation to day :)
[21:28] <Upu> VCC -> 3.3v on the GPS
[21:28] <Upu> GND to GND
[21:28] <Upu> TX to TX ( technically wrong just go with it )
[21:28] <Upu> might br RX to tx and vice versa
[21:28] <Smrtz> well, theres two grounds, four if you count the two used for connecting the arduino to serial.
[21:29] <Upu> GND is a common think you have a number go GND on the Arduino
[21:29] <Upu> any will do
[21:29] <Smrtz> ok, thanks
[21:29] <Upu> tink=ting
[21:29] <Upu> think=thing
[21:29] <Upu> even sorry
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[21:30] <daveake> I''m gonna have grounding nightmares tonight
[21:30] <Upu> :)
[21:31] <daveake> And yes the reg on the mini pro can do 300mA (derate that according to power dissipation / ambient). Running from 3 or 4 AAs it will happily run a ublox
[21:32] <daveake> The mini pro has 2 GND terms. Use whichever one is handy
[21:35] <Smrtz> ahh, so I don't have to move anything. Thanks daveake
[21:41] <eroomde> burn after reading starting on itv1
[21:41] <eroomde> if anyone wants a decent film
[21:45] Action: fsphil is just back from watching Prometheus
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[21:48] <Laurenceb_> i have to do risk arsesments :(
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> risk: lithium polymer battery exploding.... two point failure scenario: fire spreads to oxygen cylinders nearby
[21:49] <daveake> bummer
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> three point failure scenario: cylinder explode as nuclear warhead transport convoy is passing, causing warhead detonation
[21:50] <eroomde> fsphil: without spoilers plz, any good?
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> hazard scenario: detonation causes nuclear exchange resulting in global thermonuclear war
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> see my hypothesis is true
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> lithium polymer batteries cause thermonuclear war in a three point failure
[21:51] <fsphil> eroomde: it's alright, could have been better
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[21:56] <Laurenceb_> all you need to write really bad risk assessments is final destination dvd box set
[22:02] <fsphil> lol
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[22:10] <choppyhorse> I just turned on my APRS transmitter setup for the first time. I heard a popping noise.
[22:10] <eroomde> good popping or bad popping?
[22:11] <choppyhorse> It feels good to me.
[22:11] <eroomde> the pop with the white smoke is the less good one
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> Once you pop, you can't stop.
[22:12] <fsphil> or start
[22:12] <daveake> APRS Pop Releases Smoke
[22:12] <nigelvh_> I (heart) recursive acronyms!
[22:13] <nigelvh_> GNU! PHP! WINE! etc.
[22:13] <Upu> PINE...
[22:14] <eroomde> recursive and factorial
[22:14] <eroomde> hey guess what, a fresh bit of trivia i've not used before
[22:14] <eroomde> 'gnu' clashes with 'codding' on crc32
[22:14] <eroomde> isn't that cool?
[22:14] <nigelvh_> I believe you or someone mentioned that on here a bit ago
[22:14] <nigelvh_> But yes, cool
[22:15] <Upu> you'll have to pass that one by me over a beer some time eroomde
[22:16] <LazyLeopard> Way back when we used to collect IBM acronyms, the challenge being to find the one with the deepest layering; how far did you have to take any one letter in the acronym before you hit a word rather than another acronym...
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> Are recursive acronyms cheating?
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> WINE/LAME
[22:17] <nigelvh_> Yeah, if you can use recursive ones, the I can always be IBM
[22:18] <eroomde> LazyLeopard: example?
[22:18] <nigelvh_> Really as soon as you find any recursive acronym for the letters I B and M then you win. Or the universe implodes.
[22:18] <LazyLeopard> PE -> PTF (in) Error; PTG -> Program Temporary Fix
[22:18] <LazyLeopard> So PE is two layers.
[22:18] <LazyLeopard> PTF, even...
[22:19] <eroomde> ok so this is a spoof
[22:19] <eroomde> http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/
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[22:20] <eroomde> but at the top of hacker news currently is this: http://addyosmani.github.com/backbone-aura/
[22:24] <LazyLeopard> I think two-layer ones were not uncommon back in the 80s. I moved away from IBM circles in the early 90s. By now I expect they've added a few layers...
[22:26] <fsphil> IBM didn't do cirles, everything had harsh edges
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[22:27] <eroomde> you cant have hard edges anymore
[22:27] <fsphil> probably why I like this thinkpad -- none of that pansy Apple nonsense :)
[22:27] <eroomde> on electronics boxes
[22:27] <eroomde> some EU thing
[22:27] <eroomde> yes i would like an ibm thinkpad
[22:28] <eroomde> ndxt laptop probably will be
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[22:29] <fsphil> same.. a more modern model perhaps
[22:29] <fsphil> this one is starting to show its age
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[22:31] Action: SpeedEvil rages again against widescreen
[22:31] <fsphil> widescreen and glossy
[22:32] <fsphil> kill them with fire!
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> Someone linked a 21:9 laptop.
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[22:35] <nick_> What's wrong with widescreen?
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Nothing inherently - it's just that it effectively also means shortscreen
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[22:35] <fsphil> they're smaller vertically
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> About (optimistically) 0.1% of my computation time is spent watching fullscreen video.
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> I do not want to optimise for this case.
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[22:36] Nick change: KingJ- -> KingJ
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[22:37] <eroomde> i would like at least 1200 vertical pixels
[22:37] <eroomde> it makes such a difference
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[22:38] <nick_> I like widescreen because most of my time is spent editing multiple text files.
[22:40] <fsphil> I wouldn't mind but they've stopped selling 4:3's
[22:40] <eroomde> yeah
[22:40] <eroomde> it's a happier format for text bashing
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[22:45] <eroomde> fsphil: my friend bought an x61 from ebay for about £100. he put at ssd in it and it was excelsior
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[22:46] <fsphil> ah one of the tiny ones
[22:47] Smrtz (~Tarrenj@unaffiliated/smrtz) got lost in the net-split.
[22:47] TylerD (~TylerD@unaffiliated/tylerd) got lost in the net-split.
[22:47] stilldavid (~david@stilldavid.com) got lost in the net-split.
[22:47] danielsaul (~danielsau@99.198.122.28) got lost in the net-split.
[22:47] <fsphil> I'll probably do the same, but stick with the T range
[22:47] <fsphil> like having a larger screen
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[22:50] <fsphil> suppose I could get an ssd for this one
[22:50] <fsphil> it's ide so probably wouldn't make sense
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[23:00] <Tarrenj_> Upu, the gps works and the code in the link you gave me works fine. thank
[23:00] <Tarrenj_> Thanks
[23:03] <Tarrenj_> I'm working on the ntx2 now, but it looks like RFGND isn't used, is that right?
[23:13] <eroomde> there's something in the air today
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[23:16] <SpeedEvil> Nitrogen?
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> lol burn after reading was good
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> hmm i might have found the source of my adc woes
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> ithink theres high frequency harmonics off my smps
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[23:23] Nick change: Tarrenj_ -> Smrtz
[23:23] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
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[23:24] <Laurenceb_> its not adc noise from the other stuff
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Add some noise into the reference to dither?
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> as its still there if everything is turned off
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> huh
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> The reference of the SMPS
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> nah i used a poor choke on the output
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> If you dither the voltage a little, you spread the ...
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> k
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> only 10 ohms or so esr at 5MHz
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> I see.
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> you've tried hooking up an external PSU?
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> no, not yet
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> a bit tricky without frying the stm
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> This is the piloty thing?
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> ill try doing some mods tomorrow
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> yes
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> Massive capacitor on it?
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> not that bit
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> so you can turn the SMPS off for a bit, and measure
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> in my experience cap esr screws things up
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> oh well - zzz time
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> Night
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[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[23:42] <Smrtz> Are there any CHDK alternatives for non cannon cameras?
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Some _really_ expensive cameras support various forms of scripting - officially
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> afaik Nikon has an intervalometer on some models
[00:00] --- Sat Jun 9 2012