highaltitude.log.20120607

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[00:24] <Smrtz> Hey, I just got my ntx2 in the mail, and I'm hooking it up, but to connect it to a bazooka antenna, would I just strip off the coax connector, and solder the core directly to the pin?
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[06:18] <eroomde> kraken restart :(
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[07:37] <jonsowman> aha, kraken is back
[07:37] <UpuWork> yeah
[07:38] <WillDuckworth> similar to yesterday?
[07:42] <daveake> Monring all
[07:43] <daveake> jonsowman: Have been running predictions for the weekend and I'm seeing some sudden changes fro hour to hour
[07:43] <daveake> Wondering if that's correct from the data or the cache needs clearing or somethin
[07:43] <daveake> [08:40] <daveake> 10am sunday - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a5c803ca1508f9e7213dab8b852f3b86f21e9363
[07:43] <daveake> [08:40] <daveake> noon sunday - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=1e5f292151e4b622daa99406a12af11ea3149aa4
[07:43] <daveake> [08:41] <daveake> 1pm Sunday - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b133d18c6efb2be37bcdc0e0351c9d8dddc53085 [08:41] <daveake> I dooon't believe them
[07:44] <jonsowman> hmmm
[07:45] <jonsowman> it's not so bad that i'm instantly convinced it's wrong
[07:45] <daveake> ok
[07:45] <jonsowman> but i'll clear the cache and rerun
[07:45] <daveake> If it is true then there's sqrt(f-all) way I'm launching :)
[07:45] <daveake> cheers
[07:47] <jonsowman> have a look at those
[07:47] <jonsowman> consistent but all quite different
[07:47] <jonsowman> anyway i must dash, will investigate further later
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[07:47] <jonsowman> daveake: when did you origin run those preds?
[07:48] <jonsowman> *originally
[07:48] <daveake> When did I first run them? Probably Monday
[07:48] <daveake> Those links are from a few minutes ago
[07:48] <jonsowman> hmm ok
[07:48] <jonsowman> i forgot to check what model they were run using
[07:49] <daveake> gfs20120607_00z
[07:49] <jonsowman> interesting
[07:49] <jonsowman> i must go, sorry
[07:49] <jonsowman> i will look into this later
[07:49] <daveake> ok no probs
[07:50] <daveake> I just re-ran one of those, and got different results again, though it says it's using the same dataset
[07:55] <daveake> I've not re-run all 3. The last one (for 1pm BST Sunday) is unchanged; the other two have changed massively, and now are very similar to that one
[07:55] <daveake> now*
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[08:01] <UpuWork> ok sorry about the downtime all fixed now
[08:03] <UpuWork> looks like human error, engineers working in there last night turned the aircon off and didn't turn it back on
[08:03] <daveake> What was down?
[08:03] <UpuWork> you didn't notice ? Nothing everything is fine nothing to see here
[08:04] <daveake> lol
[08:05] <WillDuckworth> hey daveake - i've been running predictions all week too - haven't seen too much change for sat - maybe travelling a few miles further east each time
[08:07] <daveake> We're currently looking at Sunday ... Saturday is a bit close to Luton if we're late launching
[08:07] <jonsowman> http://hourly.cusf.co.uk
[08:07] <jonsowman> that should give you an idea of how things are changing
[08:07] <jonsowman> even though it's for cambridge rather than your site
[08:08] <daveake> Sure
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[08:10] <daveake> OK, so for Saturday that shows a ENE flight which is consistent with what i've seen for here, with some large steps hour to hour, and on that basis I won't be launching Saturday
[08:11] <daveake> For Sunday it also matches the predictions I've run in the last few minutes, but not the ones a few minutes earlier before I mentioned it here
[08:12] <daveake> So at the mo Sunday looks possible. Just need to avoid a - the rain, and b - Swindon
[08:12] <daveake> WillDuckworth If we end up launching at a time that will overlap yours, I'll switch to my rfm tracker to avoid .075
[08:13] <WillDuckworth> cool - i'm really hoping to be up by 8 - down around 10
[08:13] <WillDuckworth> but you know how it is ;)
[08:13] <fsphil> "Saturday is a bit close to Luton" -- sorry, nothing is close to Luton
[08:14] <daveake> WillDuckworth Yes I do :p
[08:14] <daveake> fsphil Good point
[08:14] <fsphil> Putting London into their airport is a sneaky trick :)
[08:15] <daveake> Not as cheeky as Ryan Air's flights to Vienna, which don't even land in the same country
[08:15] <fsphil> they don't?
[08:16] <daveake> Bratislava
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[08:18] <eroomde> aeroplanes with terrorist scares get diverted to luton
[08:18] <eroomde> presumably dropping them home
[08:19] <daveake> lol
[08:19] <fsphil> I usually fly there because it's cheap, but I never factor in the price of the train to get to London
[08:20] <eroomde> yeah that's always the catch with these £30 flights
[08:20] <eroomde> it can be the same again for a train
[08:26] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/wIggI.jpg
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[08:27] <eroomde> not seen that one
[08:29] <daveake> I did one for a telescope-owning friend
[08:41] <Laurenceb_> http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html#PoloniumPen
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[09:49] <eroomde> yo bk
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[09:59] <eroomde> before i make one, does anyone know of an lea-6t eagle footprint?
[09:59] <Darkside> heh.
[09:59] <Darkside> sorry, no
[09:59] <Darkside> did that in altium ages ago tho
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[10:17] <nosebleedkt_> where is my helium! they said they will call on Tuesday!!!!!!!
[10:21] <fsphil> have you called them?
[10:21] <kokey> be glad you're not getting it from the home office
[10:28] <kokey> you'll be waiting for months without a way to call them
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[10:34] <fsphil> The inspiration for the Vogons probably
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[10:36] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: morning :) are you aiming for a sun launch now?
[10:37] <WillDuckworth> hiya - yep, think so - bright and early... ish
[10:37] <cuddykid> good stuff - I'll swing into tracking action when I surface :P
[10:39] <daveake> We might be launching Sunday too
[10:39] <daveake> Balloon-bags at dawn
[10:39] <cuddykid> oh nice prediction WillDuckworth!!
[10:39] <cuddykid> lol daveake :)
[10:41] <Laurenceb> http://de3.eu.apcdn.com/full/75438.jpg
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[10:49] <cuddykid> could be an interesting landing WillDuckworth - depending on the alt etc it may land up the malverns! That would be a fun recovery :D
[10:52] <daveake> linky for the prediction?
[10:52] <WillDuckworth> it's definitely changing landing spots - river, ponds, motorways and plenty of trees to contend with
[10:53] <WillDuckworth> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=da5edff2e90c25b076844790261184a6a9e4e341
[10:55] <daveake> ta
[10:55] <daveake> Hopefully it will change a bit. M50 not good. Mine lands in Swindon so that needs to change too
[11:01] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: do you mind if I pop down when I can either to help with launch or help find it? I may not be able to though, I'll keep you posted :)
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[11:10] <WillDuckworth> yeah sure thing cuddykid - just call as and when
[11:11] <cuddykid> cheers :) will do - I'll try and bring spares/other equip for recovery
[11:11] <WillDuckworth> nice one :)
[11:12] <daveake> Chainsaw, boat, yellow jacket for walking on the motorway :p
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[11:12] <WillDuckworth> lol
[11:12] <vk5gr> ping Darkside
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[11:22] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ONZcjs1Pjmk
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[11:40] <WillDuckworth> hmmm - email hasn't shown up here - is the bot asleep again?
[11:41] <daveake> snorebot
[11:42] <fsphil> noboty knows
[11:44] <WillDuckworth> it's bot good enough
[11:44] <fsphil> I hope this wind has calmed down before you guys launch
[11:44] <WillDuckworth> fingers crossed
[11:44] <fsphil> having launched in breezy weather, I don't recommend it :)
[11:44] <gonzo___> when's the next launch due:?
[11:45] Nick change: gonzo___ -> gonzo_
[11:45] <WillDuckworth> sunday...hopefully
[11:45] <gonzo_> is that the polish aprs on CB one?
[11:45] <WillDuckworth> nope uk
[11:46] <daveake> number10 and I were thinking of Saturday, but the predictions are too variable, and in some cases too close to Luton airport, plus it'll be a bit windy. Shame as it'll also be sunny.
[11:46] <WillDuckworth> but think they're still on
[11:46] <gonzo_> ah, new one on me then
[11:46] <gonzo_> is that a dave hab?
[11:47] <UpuWork> Is the Polish launch using Spacenear.us ?
[11:49] <fsphil> don't believe so
[11:55] <Elwell> they're planning another launch from .ch (cern robotics club) on Sat AM
[11:55] <r2x0t> I can probably rx that, any info about frequencies and modulations?
[11:56] <Elwell> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=55f4b889dab14b69b089de3ffb2d291b2790e139
[11:57] <Elwell> likely to be mobile phone rather than real tracking
[11:57] <r2x0t> meh
[11:57] <r2x0t> kids these days have it too easy :)
[11:58] <Elwell> :-)
[12:00] <fsphil> from what I've heard of that last two launches.. not so easy it seems :)
[12:04] <daveake> Ah, UpuPost :)
[12:05] <fsphil> lol
[12:05] <UpuWork> so much for breakfast delivery these days
[12:06] <daveake> Doesn't seem to contain any breakfast :(
[12:10] <fsphil> I wouldn't recommend eating pcbs
[12:10] <fsphil> even fresh out of the oven
[12:10] <daveake> lol
[12:11] <UpuWork> fsphil how did the cooking go last night ?
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[12:14] <fsphil> UpuWork: very well
[12:14] <fsphil> just one fault
[12:14] <fsphil> http://imgur.com/a/v81zg
[12:15] <UpuWork> oo looks good
[12:15] <fsphil> a single bridge, but not underneath the IC so can be fixed
[12:15] <jonsowman> that looks excellent
[12:15] <UpuWork> just swipe that with an iron
[12:16] <fsphil> yea I think the iron alone would be enough to pick up some of that solder
[12:16] <fsphil> there may be bridges underneath but I won't know that until I test it
[12:16] <fsphil> I don't think so though
[12:18] <UpuWork> very interested to see if it works
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[12:22] <fsphil> same here, need to dig out the test hooks
[12:23] <fsphil> the caps seem to be polarised, I've placed them so the caps ground goes to the boards ground
[12:27] <UpuWork> hmm
[12:27] <UpuWork> should have silk on there indicating it
[12:28] <fsphil> nice working with large parts for a change
[12:28] <fsphil> you can't go wrong with those caps
[12:29] <UpuWork> large parts with the smallest part I've worked with
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[12:29] <fsphil> the ic wasn't too bad, assuming it works :)
[12:29] <UpuWork> I could hand solder that with the exception of that underboard pad
[12:31] <UpuWork> so testing it tonight ?
[12:32] <UpuWork> I really want to see if that thing can operate the board from one cell
[12:32] <fsphil> yea, gonna wire it up after I do the quick fix
[12:36] <number10> never place an internet order while someone is talking to you - just ordered some cpas from farnel and didnt realise they will be shipped from US
[12:36] <number10> caps
[12:37] <UpuWork> £15 k thx bai
[12:38] <daveake> Easy to fall into that trap
[12:38] Action: fsphil hangs head in shame
[12:39] <number10> didnt check the bottom line :(
[12:40] <UpuWork> just cancel it
[12:40] <number10> they wont cancel anything that goes through to newark
[12:40] <fsphil> yea they don't mind if you cancel
[12:40] <fsphil> ooh
[12:41] <number10> even phoned them.. never mind I'll just tell the person who interrupted me he ows me 15 quin :S
[12:41] <number10> quid
[12:41] <jonsowman> i have a habit of checking the "In stock" and "exclude extended range" boxes now
[12:42] <number10> thats a good idea jonsowman - i will try and remember that
[12:50] <daveake> My usual mistake on the CPC site is selecting something, asking for 5 say, and not noticing till the order arrives that I asked for 5 packs of 10
[12:52] <fsphil> hmm, cpc haven't spammed me in a while. wonder what's up
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> I'm still using the pack of grinding wheels my (now passed on) dad bought from CPC.
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> 5.
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> (packs of 10)
[12:53] <number10> I have done that with work orders a few times - had a draw full of stuff I didnt need
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[12:53] <SpeedEvil> At the current rate, I may need to pass them down.
[12:53] <zyp> or grind more :p
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[12:56] <daveake> You could grind down my ever-expanding box of PP3 battery clips (usual one I gforget I have then order 50 of)
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:56] <daveake> We should have a bring-and-dump table at the HAB meeting :)
[12:57] <number10> have you got a truck
[12:57] <daveake> lol
[12:57] <number10> mind you I cant go anyway :(
[12:57] <daveake> :(
[12:58] <number10> any one have plans for a talk?
[12:58] <daveake> Upu could do "How to rescue a payload from a tree"
[12:59] <fsphil> "Countries, and how to miss them"
[12:59] <daveake> :p
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[13:00] <fsphil> I'd love to do a talk but I'm rubbish at speaking
[13:00] <number10> jonsowman: could do what I dont like about PICs.... or maybe keep it short. what I do like about them
[13:00] <fsphil> hah
[13:00] <daveake> lol
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[13:07] <jonsowman> haha
[13:07] <jonsowman> you're going to regret giving me that idea
[13:07] <number10> :)
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[13:07] <jonsowman> CUSF will have a couple of talks
[13:07] <staylo> 'They make a lovely crunching noise underfoot'
[13:07] <jonsowman> Martlet 1 build and launch
[13:07] <number10> I'm not at the conference this year so please go ahead
[13:08] <jonsowman> and maybe some of the electronics we've been doing
[13:08] <UpuWork> can we have one about dubious biological science dangling from a balloon again pls pls pls
[13:08] <jonsowman> no UpuWork
[13:08] <UpuWork> :)
[13:08] <jonsowman> no we cannot
[13:08] <Laurenceb> you mean a mouse?
[13:08] <Laurenceb> in a 2L bottle
[13:08] <UpuWork> no
[13:08] <UpuWork> thats no dubious that is confirmed "full retard"
[13:08] <Laurenceb> im just trolling
[13:09] <gonzo_> will a mouse go through the neck of a coke bottle?
[13:09] <Laurenceb> only one way to find out
[13:09] <nick_> Mice are surprisingly small.
[13:09] <nick_> They're mostly a ball of fur.
[13:09] <gonzo_> I'll add it to my list of questions
[13:09] <UpuWork> gonzo_ sure if its liquidised
[13:10] <gonzo_> I was thinking of using a hammer
[13:10] <nick_> I used to have mice in a previous house, they could get through pretty small holes.
[13:10] <Laurenceb> i wonder what explosive decompression would do
[13:10] <gonzo_> the excess hets truncated
[13:10] <gonzo_> I was thinking that to get it out
[13:11] <Laurenceb> http://www-e.uni-magdeburg.de/steschum/DSCN0754.JPG
[13:11] <nick_> They were hard to catch though. The only way we managed it was with a humane trap.
[13:11] <gonzo_> a coke bottle shaken up is good for 40psi, so it would make a good pressure vessle for hab work (mice aside)
[13:12] <nick_> (mice are suckers for peanut butter)
[13:12] <gonzo_> spot the odd one out in that pic!
[13:12] <nick_> How many people present talks at the meeting?
[13:13] <gonzo_> I doubt the ones in suits/uniforms
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[13:29] <UpuWork> I'll do a workshop on SMD soldering if anyones interested
[13:30] <zyp> which kind of tools/technique?
[13:31] <Laurenceb> tom66 style
[13:32] <zyp> tom66 could need a workshop on SMD soldering
[13:34] <UpuWork> zyp a soldering iron, some tweezers and some solder braid
[13:34] <UpuWork> and flux
[13:34] <UpuWork> technique ? Err mine
[13:35] <UpuWork> "This is how I do it and it seems to work"
[13:35] <WillDuckworth> good idea Upu
[13:36] <WillDuckworth> which flux do you use?
[13:36] <UpuWork> I use a ChipFix gel flux
[13:36] <UpuWork> ChipQuik
[13:37] <UpuWork> http://uk.farnell.com/chip-quik/smd291/flux-rework-no-clean-10cc/dp/1850216
[13:37] <UpuWork> that one
[13:37] <UpuWork> however I would take issue with the "no clean" part of the description
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[13:44] <nick_> UpuWork: you use that to solder chips with a lot of pins?
[13:46] <UpuWork> yes
[13:46] <nick_> Just that and a soldering iron, not reflow?
[13:46] <UpuWork> yup
[13:46] <nick_> Or I guess I mean an oven, not relfow?
[13:46] <nick_> And it's relatively easy?
[13:46] <UpuWork> jsut an iron
[13:46] <UpuWork> Well i think it is yes
[13:47] <UpuWork> just get a decent iron
[13:47] <nick_> My dept has decent irons
[13:48] <UpuWork> and an illuminated magnifying glass
[13:49] <UpuWork> just get some practice first
[13:49] <nick_> Is alignment a pain?
[13:50] <nick_> I've done some smd soldering, but just simple components and a chip with spaced out pins
[13:50] <UpuWork> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0863.JPG
[13:50] <UpuWork> that was done by hand
[13:50] <UpuWork> I used solder paste for the crystal
[13:51] <nick_> Which is the crystal?
[13:52] <UpuWork> black part between C4 and C3
[13:52] <Matt_soton> pico board?
[13:53] <UpuWork> actually no more of a robust simple backup tracker
[13:53] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[13:53] <UpuWork> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0517_resize.JPG
[13:53] <UpuWork> thats the pico
[13:53] <nick_> Where are the connections on that
[13:53] <nick_> ?
[13:53] <Matt_soton> what the pcios bigger? :P
[13:53] <UpuWork> connections ? power you can see, antenna is just above power
[13:53] <UpuWork> yes alot lighter though
[13:54] <UpuWork> Pico was just a test board knocked up quickly
[13:54] <UpuWork> it only weighs 5g
[13:54] <Matt_soton> sending mine off soon, shall have to wait to see how heavy it ends up
[13:55] <Matt_soton> the inductor for the boost supply might be the heavy bit
[13:55] <Matt_soton> mind you can then use one AAA
[13:55] <UpuWork> its not
[13:55] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/a/v81zg
[13:55] <Matt_soton> i mean on mine
[13:55] <UpuWork> thats the boost circuit which is on the rear
[13:55] <UpuWork> oh ok sorry
[13:56] <UpuWork> yeah in the paste everyone has found the boosts won't run on 1 AAA
[13:56] <Matt_soton> well i have a low votlage input boost and a low voltage (1.8) payload
[13:56] <UpuWork> yeah thats interesting
[13:57] <Matt_soton> but as backup the power supply sits on the back so i can switch it out for a buck
[13:57] <UpuWork> what is the radio you're planning on using ?
[13:57] <Matt_soton> cc1101
[13:57] <UpuWork> ok
[13:57] <UpuWork> foil balloon pico ?
[13:57] <Matt_soton> actually weve found some small latex ones
[13:57] <UpuWork> ok
[13:59] <Matt_soton> any reason for no latex picos yet?
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> Getting benefit from the Pico is hard.
[14:00] <UpuWork> probably because they don't stay in the 2meter regs ?
[14:00] <gonzo_> I am going to do one with a small radar reflector
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> There is a narrow range of free lift to get maximum altitude
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> If that's what you mean
[14:01] <Matt_soton> well hopefully i can get the payload light enough then
[14:01] <UpuWork> well 25g with batteries is doable
[14:01] <gonzo_> that's the reason for using passive tracking
[14:02] <UpuWork> I'm interested to see if this boost reg on the pico board can run it from 1 battery
[14:02] <UpuWork> that will make it 15g
[14:02] <WillDuckworth> i reckon under 20g is doable
[14:02] <UpuWork> oh easily
[14:02] <Matt_soton> what will probably end up as the unknown is the housing for it all
[14:02] <UpuWork> it will be that with 2 batteries just
[14:02] <UpuWork> law of diminishing returns though
[14:03] <Matt_soton> so what happens with one battery + boost?
[14:03] <gonzo_> is diminishing returns when it floats off to sea?
[14:03] <Matt_soton> does the output voltage fall short?
[14:03] <Matt_soton> too much ripple?
[14:03] <UpuWork> boost regs either can't start up
[14:03] <UpuWork> or they can't provide the current the GPS needs with that little input voltage
[14:03] <UpuWork> and don't believe the data sheets
[14:04] <Matt_soton> well we shall see
[14:04] <Matt_soton> issue might be capacitance on the output making it look like a short
[14:04] <WillDuckworth> keep us posted :)
[14:04] <UpuWork> I'll be interested in what you find
[14:05] <Matt_soton> is the same regulator from the sparkfun module mind you
[14:05] <Matt_soton> difference being the output voltge
[14:05] <UpuWork> I did a PCB designed to run from 1 cell
[14:05] <UpuWork> didn't work
[14:05] <UpuWork> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0417.JPG
[14:05] <UpuWork> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0418.JPG
[14:06] <Matt_soton> ye tahts why the regulator is seperate
[14:06] <Matt_soton> and now have a 1.8V GPS on the way
[14:07] <UpuWork> oh how much was it in the end ?
[14:07] <Matt_soton> 18 someting
[14:07] <Matt_soton> + too much shipping (12)
[14:07] <UpuWork> ouch
[14:07] <Matt_soton> not that im paying so w/e
[14:07] <UpuWork> yeah thats what stings and the VAT
[14:07] <UpuWork> do you want a break out ?
[14:07] <Matt_soton> na im fine thanks
[14:08] <UpuWork> ok
[14:08] <Matt_soton> i have a pcb going off soon
[14:08] <WillDuckworth> good effort upu ;)
[14:08] <UpuWork> well I was going to send it FoC but hey ho :)
[14:08] <Matt_soton> so what regultator was on taht ^ ?
[14:08] <UpuWork> err 1 sec let me check
[14:08] <Matt_soton> we'll send an order for some GPS antennas soon however
[14:10] <Matt_soton> the expensive bit is the pcb
[14:10] <Matt_soton> but as i said, we're not paying :P
[14:11] <UpuWork> NCL1402
[14:11] <UpuWork> NCP1402
[14:11] <Laurenceb> UpuWork: why didnt that work?
[14:11] <UpuWork> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/89920.pdf
[14:12] <UpuWork> wouldn't power the board on with 1 cell
[14:12] <Smrtz> Hey, I just got my ntx2 in the mail, and I'm hooking it up, but to connect it to a bazooka antenna, would I just strip off the coax connector, and solder the core directly to the pin?
[14:13] <Laurenceb> ah
[14:13] <Laurenceb> id suggest something a bit more beefy then
[14:13] <UpuWork> I wouldn't solder direct to the pin
[14:13] <Matt_soton> yea UpuWork that datashhet doesnt give the IoutMAX vinMIN relationship
[14:14] <Matt_soton> the one im hoping to work is 0.3V input min, lots of current out
[14:14] <daveake> Nope
[14:14] <daveake> Nice
[14:14] <Smrtz> but you do nothing with the sheathe, it's just the core?
[14:14] <UpuWork> which one is it Matt_soton ?
[14:14] <Matt_soton> tps61200
[14:14] <UpuWork> the braid Smrtz goes to GND
[14:14] <UpuWork> well
[14:14] <Smrtz> ahh, thanks
[14:14] <Matt_soton> we've had this discussion before, just need to see if it works :)
[14:14] <daveake> Smrtz You connect sheath to one of the GND pins either side of the ANT pin
[14:15] <UpuWork> thats what is on the board that fsphil is doing
[14:15] <UpuWork> soldering
[14:15] <UpuWork> and is on that pico test
[14:15] <UpuWork> so watch this space I'll let you nkow
[14:15] <Matt_soton> is the lowest Vin one you can find
[14:15] <Matt_soton> is he using 1.8V?
[14:15] <Matt_soton> also any pics of his pcb?
[14:16] <UpuWork> its my PCB
[14:16] <UpuWork> 3.3V
[14:16] Action: Laurenceb searches for suitable switcher
[14:16] <UpuWork> its that pico board with the SDcard next to it
[14:16] <UpuWork> on the rear
[14:16] <UpuWork> I put pads for linear and boost regs on
[14:17] <Matt_soton> oh i see
[14:17] <UpuWork> I'm really hoping it will do it
[14:17] <Matt_soton> that TPS61200 is actually a boost/buck
[14:18] <Matt_soton> but the buck is a bit crap
[14:18] <UpuWork> the NCP1402 didn't regulate down past 3.3 apart from the diode drop
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[14:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3539
[14:20] <Laurenceb> tada ^
[14:21] <Matt_soton> its somewhat more efficient
[14:21] <Matt_soton> it has a higher Vin MIN but still should be fine
[14:22] <UpuWork> well will let you know how we get on with the TPS61200.
[14:22] <Matt_soton> might be worth making a board for the linear part too
[14:22] <fsphil> I've got a solar cell, might try testing with that
[14:23] <daveake> Do you have some solar too?
[14:23] <fsphil> ah, flaw in the plan
[14:25] <fsphil> people who email xlsx files need to be hit
[14:26] <jonsowman> agreed
[14:26] <jonsowman> and .doc/.docx
[14:26] <jonsowman> annoys me immensely
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[14:27] <Matt_soton> interesting graph on the ltc part is 'minimuim load resistance during startup vs Vin'
[14:28] <Matt_soton> this might work, suppose worth trying
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[14:38] <fsphil> if only we could master rain power
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> Hyudro really sucks, unless you have heroically massive collectors.
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> My roof has an area of 40m^2. It gets (say) 50 tons of rain a year. Over a 2m drop from the gutters - that's a megajoule.
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> Or a third of a kWh
[14:43] <gonzo_> we call it 'manchester' here
[14:44] <daveake> Does griffonbot need a swift kick?
[14:44] <daveake> 3 group emails today and not a peep
[14:45] <UpuWork> I don't know how to restart it
[14:45] <UpuWork> Well should know if I get my M0 tommorrow
[14:46] <UpuWork> apparently all the papers have been marked
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[14:48] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[14:48] Action: griffonbot is following: #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon #projecthorus #HABE2
[14:48] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[14:48] <gonzo_> what call will you try and get? M0UPU ?
[14:48] <UpuWork> there you go
[14:48] <UpuWork> fixed it
[14:48] <UpuWork> Yeah
[14:48] <daveake> :D
[14:48] griffonbot (~griffonbo@kraken.habhub.org) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[14:48] <UpuWork> oh
[14:48] <daveake> M00PU
[14:49] <UpuWork> lol
[14:49] <gonzo_> when I did mone you could only reserve one, but had to wait for it to come up in seq
[14:49] <gonzo_> hehe mice dave!
[14:49] <gonzo_> nice
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[14:49] <UpuWork> got it
[14:51] <eroomde> M0ORE was taken, annoyingly
[14:52] <UpuWork> M0OOO is taken
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[14:52] <eroomde> i suggested i would try and get it at the wireless club when i took the exam and quick as a flash someone said 'nah you don't want M0ORE, 8 dah's in a row, difficult to copy'
[14:53] <jonsowman> :|
[14:53] <eroomde> 10 even
[14:53] <eroomde> 13 even
[14:53] <eroomde> there we go
[14:53] <eroomde> 13
[14:53] <Elwell> -- ----- --- .-. .
[14:53] <eroomde> -- ----- --- .-. .
[14:53] <eroomde> too slow
[14:54] <Elwell> 10 isn't it?
[14:54] <eroomde> hey shut up, i just do soldering
[14:54] Action: Elwell pats baconista (bot does morse / demorse)
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[15:04] <gonzo_> only difficult if you ever use CW
[15:05] MoALTz (~no@host-92-2-141-82.as43234.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[15:05] <gonzo_> And then the VNC updates and I see the lines above, after I'd hit return!
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[15:24] <fsphil> vnc is evil
[15:25] <fsphil> I wish NX was easier and stable -- when it works, it works very well
[15:25] <WillDuckworth> yeah - it's good
[15:26] <UpuWork> RDP.exe
[15:26] <WillDuckworth> booo
[15:27] <fsphil> no port forwarding, lame :)
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[15:29] <UpuWork> on RDP ?
[15:29] jonquark (jonl@nat/ibm/x-qhkydatavrzkqudz) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[15:33] <fsphil> as far as I know anyway
[15:33] <fsphil> I have to ssh back into my machine to do port forwarding
[15:33] <UpuWork> well you port forward 3389
[15:33] <UpuWork> but you should be using VPN's anyway
[15:34] <fsphil> not likely unfornatually
[15:41] <nigelvh> A standard PPTP vpn is very easy to set up in either linux or on windows serve.r
[15:41] <nigelvh> That's what I use for remote access to my house.
[15:42] <nigelvh> Plus just about everything can do PPTP.
[15:46] <UpuWork> its also horribly broken
[15:47] <UpuWork> most stuff does IPSEC Now
[15:47] <UpuWork> PPTP is better than nothing I guess
[15:47] <nigelvh> It's simple, and everything supports it. It's not necessarily the best. But the better protocols can be a pain to set up properly.
[15:48] <UpuWork> true
[15:53] <fsphil> I've only dabbled with openvpn so far
[15:58] <UpuWork> Well the Fortigate firewalls we use have SSL VPN and IPSEC for site to site, but the Remote Web Workplace in SBS2011 is really good negates the need for VPN but keeps the security up
[15:58] <UpuWork> and it proxies RDP through to a terminal server so the end users only have one place to go and its a web site which they "get"
[15:58] <UpuWork> End users and VPN never got on well
[15:59] <fsphil> I can imagine
[15:59] <nigelvh> We've been doing VMware View over PCoIP here at work and it's been pretty spectacular for remote access.
[16:00] <UpuWork> right home time bbs
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[16:07] <fsphil> hooome
[16:09] <number10> I was just leaving work - did you get it UpuWork or tomorrow you find out
[16:11] <fsphil> ooh yea the M0
[16:12] <fsphil> I'd better start reading up
[16:13] <fsphil> my own isn't to far away
[16:14] <number10> when is your fsphil - next month?
[16:15] <fsphil> yea
[16:16] <fsphil> wasn't bothered about the other two, but this one is gonna be tricky
[16:16] <number10> nah - you'll do it no probs
[16:27] <Upu> tomorrow number10
[16:28] <number10> ah ok just confused as you said <UpuWork> got it
[16:28] <Upu> fixed the bot
[16:28] Action: Upu points to griffonbot
[16:29] <griffonbot> hello Upu
[16:29] <griffonbot> don't point at me :(
[16:30] <nigelvh> That was only slightly delayed...
[16:30] <daveake> Open the bay doors griffonbot
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[16:31] <griffonbot> I'm afraid I can't do that for you daveake.
[16:31] <nigelvh> haha
[16:31] <daveake> I've found a comedy partner :)
[16:32] <nigelvh> What would it do if it didn't understand?
[16:32] <griffonbot> I understand everything nigelvh
[16:32] <nigelvh> Fancy
[16:33] <Randomskk> lol chatbots
[16:33] <Randomskk> I keep meaning to add eliza support actually
[16:33] <Randomskk> so when we do actually all snap
[16:33] <Randomskk> we'll have a therapist handy
[16:34] <nigelvh> Launch the missiles griffonbot
[16:35] <griffonbot> You do not have security clearance to launch the UKHAS missiles.
[16:35] <nigelvh> haha
[16:35] <Upu> so delayed I was in the shower :)
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[16:35] <nigelvh> sudo launch the missiles griffonbot
[16:36] <nigelvh> XD
[16:36] <griffonbot> Okay.
[16:36] Randomskk (~adam@paladin.randomskk.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:36] <Randomskk> yay back
[16:36] <Randomskk> now my console should support unicode emoji. test time.
[16:36] <Randomskk> 🌆
[16:36] <Randomskk> yesss
[16:36] <Randomskk> 💩
[16:36] <nigelvh> YAY SQUARE BLOCKY THING!
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[16:41] <G0DJA> Not really balloon launching weather today in the UK, I would guess?
[16:44] <chris_99> it's pouring it down here
[16:45] <daveake> New payload nearly ready - 2 cameras, radio tracker with GSM backup - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/sets/72157630074184822/
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[16:50] <daveake> and since someone complained :p last night about the lack of aliasing, I've re-done the car pc front screen - http://i48.tinypic.com/1ot3rp.jpg
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[16:52] <G0DJA> Multi-battery pack that :-)
[16:52] <daveake> Yeah, the GSM needs it
[16:52] <G0DJA> Is the 3 legged unit on the blue board a voltage regulator?
[16:53] <G0DJA> I was talking about the different makes/capacities HI
[16:53] <daveake> Temp sensor
[16:53] <nick_> daveake: is this waht you were hoping to launch this weekend?
[16:53] <daveake> No idea :D
[16:53] <nick_> Also, does the GSM really need a lot of juice?
[16:53] <G0DJA> AH - OK on temp sensor
[16:54] <daveake> Depends on the weather and any arguments over frequencies :)
[16:54] <nick_> Won't it only be powered on for a short time?
[16:54] <daveake> GSM needs lots of juice briefly. Standby is very low
[16:55] <daveake> But if I just use 4 AAs, which is all the tracker needs (or even 4 AAAs), the GSM drops the voltage enough to reset the processor. It needs 5V min anyway.
[17:00] <eroomde> even with a mega cap?
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[17:00] <daveake> Not tried that
[17:00] <eroomde> do
[17:00] <daveake> ok
[17:00] <eroomde> i had problems with a 1W zigbee thing resetting a board
[17:00] <eroomde> a big electrolytic and low esr tantalum solved it
[17:08] <nick_> I got a 3G dongle today that I'll try to hook up with my mbed
[17:08] <nick_> I don't know whether I'll use it for a flight though.
[17:12] <jonsowman> custom crystals arrived Upu
[17:12] <Upu> still waiting for a quote
[17:13] <Upu> spoke to them yesterday all apologetic for not doing it
[17:13] <jonsowman> you should chase them on that...
[17:13] <jonsowman> oh ok
[17:13] <Upu> still nada
[17:13] <jonsowman> hmm
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[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> SCIENCE GAVE ROCK N ROLL TO YOU!
[17:34] <fsphil> k
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> got arduino pro mega connected to ublox 6, GPS powered by 4.5V battery via regulator
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> connected to UART 1 and can see NMEA coming in on the serial monitor
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[17:38] Action: Upu pats Lunar_Lander
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> I assume the next thing is to see if the GPS accepts commands
[17:40] <eroomde> either that or start writing the nmea parser
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> I think the sample code that Upu gave does both
[17:41] <Upu> my code only echos the serial data out
[17:42] <fsphil> parsers are a good programming exercise
[17:42] <Randomskk> that said use ubx if it's a ublox
[17:42] <Randomskk> robust parsers are non trivial
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> ubx was what again?
[17:45] <number10> this weekends payload some pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/65839734@N04/sets/72157630074527916/
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> the thing with switching off nmea parts?
[17:48] <nick_> number10: this is for launch from Newbury?
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[17:50] <number10> nick_: from Brightwalton - launching with daveake
[17:51] <nick_> Down the A34 but north of the M4?
[17:52] <nick_> (from Oxford)
[17:52] <eroomde> yes
[17:52] <number10> near to newbury
[17:52] <nick_> Oof, gotta run
[17:52] <number10> cu
[17:53] <nick_> But maybe I'll come help/watch?
[17:53] <eroomde> making tiny pcb's is silly
[17:53] <number10> it is ed
[17:53] <eroomde> but i don't learn
[17:53] <fsphil> I like making tiny pcbs
[17:54] <eroomde> i should just leave some more space between components, so more test points, maybe even those little hooks for scope probes. life could be so *simple*
[17:54] <eroomde> all the components on one side
[17:54] <number10> last time I looked at a tiny pcb I could see silk screen for C34, but could not see the component, and could not get a scope probe on it
[17:54] <eroomde> i think i might remake the hedgehog in big
[17:54] <fsphil> bighog
[17:55] <number10> roast
[17:55] <eroomde> i think it would fit on 80x100mm easily enough
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[17:55] <eroomde> and with some broader pitch connectors that dont threaten to break if you keep messing with them
[17:55] <number10> do you use eagle?
[17:55] <eroomde> infact maybe i'll put it in a proper enclosure and have my beloved circular connectors
[17:55] <eroomde> yes i do
[17:56] <eroomde> those nice bulgin IP67 panel-mount AA battery holders. yes.
[17:56] <eroomde> yummy
[17:58] <number10> I get a sneaking suspicion that you are...
[17:59] <eroomde> i quite enjoy eagle
[17:59] <eroomde> for all its quirks
[17:59] <eroomde> i sort of know them now
[17:59] <number10> many errors on first board?
[18:01] <eroomde> nothing fatal
[18:01] <eroomde> i did a couple of really stupid things
[18:01] <eroomde> the wrong thing with antenna supply on the ublox
[18:02] <eroomde> and left avcc unconnected on the atmega
[18:02] <eroomde> both easily avoidable mistakes
[18:03] <eroomde> i also want to add battery voltage monitoring this time round
[18:03] <number10> and now do you generally get it right first time?
[18:03] <eroomde> depends on the board
[18:03] <eroomde> and if it's hobby or not
[18:03] <eroomde> for work i tend to spend a bit more time on it
[18:03] <number10> commitment or late hours
[18:03] <eroomde> both
[18:04] <eroomde> if he board is new and complicated then it can cause some issues
[18:04] <eroomde> i had an issue recently with a board which have about 4 or 5 different voltage supplies on it
[18:04] <eroomde> and they didn;t all play nicely together when they came up, causing an instrumentation amp to get stuck onto a rail
[18:05] <eroomde> so that needed a respin with some chips to control the order that the supplies came up
[18:05] <number10> I will have to try it - not too sure if it will be theraputic, like peeling the uhu por glue off your fingers
[18:06] <eroomde> it's nice after a wile
[18:06] <eroomde> while
[18:06] <eroomde> just keep the patience throughout the leaning curve
[18:07] <eroomde> learning too
[18:07] <number10> advice taken
[18:08] <eroomde> you've a team of willing monkeys here to answers questions and check it before you send it off
[18:11] <number10> thanks. I may well have a go soon
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[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> back
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> repeating
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander> ubx was what again?
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander> the thing with switching off nmea parts?
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. what is described on the Falcom page
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[18:27] <eroomde> nmea is the standard that all (prcticelly) gps devices output so that you can plug any gps into anything that needs a gps
[18:27] <eroomde> but a lot of manufacturers implement their own protocols that might be faster, binary, with more specific functionality, say
[18:28] <eroomde> ubx is such a proprietery protocol for ublox gps units
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:28] <eroomde> by default they will come up in nmea and you then tell them (usin commands specific in the data sheet) to switch to ubx
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> so nmea was what I could see today in the serial monitor
[18:31] <fsphil> aye
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[18:32] <fsphil> nmea can vary slightly between modules too
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[18:32] <fsphil> that's caught me out a few times before
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> I think I have to read the page on the ublox 6 once more
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[18:58] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/idQ7W.jpg
[18:59] <fsphil> it really is a little bridge
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[19:01] <nigelvh> Also looks like a few random blobs
[19:01] <fsphil> see that
[19:02] <fsphil> will remove those
[19:02] <fsphil> will have to be more careful when putting down the paste
[19:03] <nigelvh> I don't generally use paste, though not to say it wouldn't be nice if I had the setup to do so.
[19:03] <fsphil> I prefer it, it's a bit more forgiving
[19:04] <fsphil> still very new to it
[19:05] <nigelvh> Yeah, most of the stuff I do doesn't really require paste, but I don't use any leadless parts. So really the only thing for me where paste would be really nice is things like 100 pin tqfp chips.
[19:06] <fsphil> yea -- though I've seen videos of people using an iron on those
[19:06] <nigelvh> That's what I do
[19:06] <nigelvh> Just a really fine tip
[19:06] <nigelvh> Also solder wick.
[19:07] <fsphil> yea I used that for the first time recently
[19:07] <fsphil> I think just the iron will be enough to remove this bridge
[19:07] <fsphil> it's really tiny
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[19:09] <nigelvh> Yeah, when i do the 100pin ones I just solder all the pins, don't worry about bridges (There are always a few), then go back over the whole thing with solder wick. Cleans up the bridges, but leaves enough on the pins for a solid contact to the pad.
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> http://www.linear.com/product/LTC6946
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> looks useful
[19:09] <fsphil> it's amazing how little paste you need
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[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> you can actually solder something like the atmega 2560 by hand?
[19:40] <nigelvh> Yep
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> WOW
[19:40] <nigelvh> I've done a number of them
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> that's cool
[19:41] <fsphil> takes talent that
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:41] <fsphil> and a steady hand
[19:41] <nigelvh> Patience, a really really fine tipped soldering iron, and some real thin solder wire.
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:41] <fsphil> do you have one of those suckers to lift up the chip?
[19:41] <nigelvh> A head magnifier is also important
[19:41] <fsphil> yes, more light!
[19:42] <fsphil> I've learned that in the last few days
[19:42] <nigelvh> "one of those suckers to lift up the chip"?
[19:42] <fsphil> but I really do need a good magnifier
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> dinnertime!
[19:42] <fsphil> that's a technical term
[19:42] <nigelvh> To answer, I don't think so.
[19:43] <joph> nigelvh, a fine soldering tip is the wrong way for soldering SMD
[19:43] <nigelvh> I wet one pad with a blob of solder, tack it down when I've got the chip aligned, then go around tacking corners, then get every pin.
[19:43] <fsphil> "Pick and Place Vacuum Suction Pen IC Hand Tool"
[19:43] <nigelvh> fsphil: nope.
[19:44] <joph> a fillet tip is a lot better than a fine one
[19:44] <nigelvh> I just use some tweezers.
[19:44] <eroomde> i use tweezers
[19:44] <eroomde> prefer them
[19:45] <fsphil> I'm using tweezers atm, but wondering if the suction thing would be bette
[19:45] <fsphil> r
[19:45] <eroomde> they keep the suck when things get hot (the air in the sucker tends to expand when sucking so the bit drops off)
[19:45] <fsphil> won't bother then
[19:46] <eroomde> really big packages can be inconvenient with tweezers tho
[19:46] <eroomde> eg LQFP144
[19:48] <nigelvh> joph, I use the hakko shape J tips. Generally a fine point, and a short fat body, so lots of good thermal mass, but fine enough to touch a single pad/leg.
[19:48] <nigelvh> http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_j.html
[19:48] <nigelvh> IE a bent cone.
[19:53] <fsphil> like that
[19:53] <joph> looks a little bit strange
[19:54] <nigelvh> It's one of my favorite tips.
[19:54] <nigelvh> I have a number of different shapes and it offers the most flexibility
[19:54] <joph> i'm using a weller LT GW http://eleka.info/arts/jpg/4/3/2/43250930bd7d20ab9e94bb6ef045e500/wel.lt-gw.jpg
[19:55] <nigelvh> Turn it around and use the fat part of the curve for larger things, and use the tip for finer things, or lay it flat for huge things or dragging. It's a great tip.
[19:55] <nigelvh> Yeah, you've got a chisel.
[19:56] <nigelvh> What Hakko calls the shape C
[19:56] <joph> thanks for the better translation :D
[20:00] <nigelvh> Some places also call those a "bevel" and call the more blade styled ones the "chisel." Mostly I figure tip choice is just a preference for the solderer, as long as you're in a reasonable category of heat transfer/size. But I do have a number of tips in just about every shape and choose the right one for the job.
[20:02] <nigelvh> Or, the right one for the job, for me.
[20:15] <eroomde> i like to have 3 or 4 around when doing stuff
[20:15] <eroomde> chunk and moderately pointy
[20:15] <eroomde> the really pointy ones loose too much heat for pcb work i find
[20:18] <eroomde> i've missed all the above, has anyon recommended a flux pen and solder wick?
[20:18] <eroomde> you need those in your life
[20:18] <fsphil> I've managed to make this solder bridge worse
[20:19] <eroomde> do you have solder wick and a flux pen in your life?
[20:19] <fsphil> both
[20:19] <eroomde> then if those don't work then all is lost
[20:19] <fsphil> I may not be doing it right
[20:19] <eroomde> apply some flex to both the bridge and the wick
[20:20] <eroomde> then press quite hard the wick against the bridge with the tip of the iron
[20:20] <eroomde> you should see some of the flux boilign and smoking and then see the solder start to draw onto the wick
[20:20] <eroomde> might take a fair few secs
[20:21] <fsphil> difficult to see anything, the pads are 0.5mm apart
[20:21] <eroomde> is it qfn?
[20:21] <fsphil> not sure what it is tbh.. has no leads
[20:22] <eroomde> qfn = quad flat no=leads
[20:22] <eroomde> is the bridge underneath the part of at the edge and visible?
[20:22] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/7163982425/
[20:23] <eroomde> ah
[20:23] <eroomde> i can't tell cos of the lighting - does your pcb have soldermask?
[20:23] <fsphil> QFN-10
[20:24] <fsphil> it does
[20:24] <eroomde> ok coolio
[20:24] <fsphil> yea rubbish photo
[20:24] <eroomde> i'm surprised the bridge can't be removed
[20:24] <eroomde> it might be that the wick isn't making contact with it properly
[20:25] <eroomde> i would try and cut the tip off the wick iff leaving a nice clean flat edge and really try and push that edge up against the bridge with the tip of the iron
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> With that small a volume, I'd just wipe the iron firmly on some damp towel to remove the thick film of solder - and reheat
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> it will pick up enough solder in one or two repetitions to remove the solder
[20:25] <eroomde> that often doesn't work for me
[20:26] <Hiena> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdwbp6R2qM8
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> The alternative is hot-air, and just use a matchstick or something as a spatula to remove
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[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> back
[20:30] <fsphil> ah ha, got it
[20:30] <fsphil> wick and flux save the day
[20:31] <eroomde> coolio
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> I still have to make my hab board
[20:31] <fsphil> thanks all
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> which I plan to be a stripboard with sockets for the devices
[20:31] <fsphil> now to take it for a test toast
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:33] <fsphil> I suppose I'd better clean up this flux
[20:34] <eroomde> yeah it does leave a mess
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> do you use alcohol for that?
[20:35] <eroomde> that's another reason i like the toast oven. when it works the results are beautiful
[20:35] <eroomde> very clean
[20:36] <fsphil> I just used a bit of tissue
[20:36] <fsphil> but yea alcohol would prolly be better
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[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:37] <fsphil> all my IC hooks have gone missing
[20:37] <eroomde> tissues just seems to leave bits of fluff stuck on the tar-ey flux
[20:38] <eroomde> flux-clean also makes a mess
[20:38] <eroomde> it's annoying really
[20:38] <fsphil> yea if I put this under the scope again I'd probably see tissue
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> IC hooks?
[20:39] <fsphil> google
[20:39] <fsphil> they're quite expensive
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:41] <craag> On the MAX-6, how much better is the sarantel helix antenna than the chip antenna?
[20:41] <eroomde> this much
[20:42] <eroomde> |-----------------------------------------------------------|
[20:42] <craag> ok!
[20:42] <craag> thanks!!
[20:42] <jonsowman> lol
[20:42] <jonsowman> evening ed
[20:42] <fsphil> whoa, that's almost 5000 syncrons
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[20:42] <eroomde> better enough that you should use it unless you have a really specific reason to use the chip antenna
[20:43] <eroomde> yo jonsowman
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> the sarantel is awesome!
[20:43] <fsphil> until it breaks
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> can get lock in 10 seconds roundabout when outside
[20:43] <jonsowman> how are things?
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhh
[20:43] <eroomde> fine thanks
[20:43] <eroomde> still at work but slowing down
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[20:43] <jonsowman> pretty late to be still at work!
[20:43] <jonsowman> says me writing reports for tomorrow
[20:44] <eroomde> how far through the projects are you?
[20:44] <jonsowman> deadlines are both 5pm tomorrow
[20:44] <jonsowman> we had one demo on tuesday and one today
[20:45] <eroomde> as in, finished 3rd year?
[20:45] <jonsowman> yep
[20:45] <jonsowman> as of tomorrow afternoon
[20:45] <jonsowman> terrifying.
[20:47] <eroomde> nice
[20:47] <eroomde> v exciting times
[20:47] <jonsowman> how's work going/
[20:47] <jonsowman> ?
[20:47] <eroomde> well
[20:48] <eroomde> finished a bunch of circuit boards today, an increment to an existing design
[20:48] <jonsowman> sounds good
[20:48] <jonsowman> what for?
[20:48] <eroomde> had a small bug where avr-gcc have changed the name of an inerrupt vector in the latest update by one character in an arbitrary way
[20:49] <jonsowman> interesting
[20:49] <jonsowman> is that documented anywhere?
[20:49] <eroomde> which is a bit annoying as i was completely blind to the difference between the two until i diffed
[20:49] <jonsowman> yeah understandably
[20:49] <eroomde> the boards are the blimp hotwire cutdowns
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:50] <eroomde> so the cut a big slit in a helium blimp if it leaves some pre-defined geofence
[20:50] <jonsowman> neat
[20:50] <eroomde> i.e. it detached from its mooring
[20:50] <jonsowman> interesting
[20:51] <eroomde> used an AD prevision 2.5V ref on the new board which saves a calibration step. a couple of other small tweaks like that to save human time getting each board made up and sent out
[20:51] <eroomde> precision*
[20:51] <jonsowman> :)
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[20:51] <eroomde> they're not bad, it was about 2.994V on the calibrated bench multimeter
[20:51] <jonsowman> not bad at all
[20:51] <jonsowman> joey's new custom cut crystals arrived today
[20:51] <eroomde> for just a wee SOT device
[20:51] <eroomde> ooooo
[20:51] <jonsowman> so going to get a new one of those made up soon
[20:52] <jonsowman> next week in fact
[20:52] <eroomde> yeah i'm going to do a big hedgehog for hedgehog v2
[20:52] <eroomde> all the componetns on 1 side, more space between them
[20:52] <jonsowman> same design though?
[20:52] <eroomde> all the bugs fixed from v1 and adding in a pyro and battery voltage mon and current consumption
[20:52] <fsphil> hogzilla
[20:52] <jonsowman> sounds great
[20:53] <eroomde> but yes otherwise the design the same
[20:53] <eroomde> just no point having it so small
[20:53] <eroomde> for general ballooning
[20:53] <jonsowman> yep
[20:53] <jonsowman> sounds good
[20:53] <jonsowman> these new crystals should allow joey to transmit anywhere from 434.56 to about 434.66
[20:53] <eroomde> i'll also put it in a project box with some circular connectors
[20:54] <eroomde> because i like circular connectors
[20:54] <eroomde> ah that's the perfetc range
[20:54] <jonsowman> circular connectors are nice
[20:54] <eroomde> did you have to pay much for them?
[20:54] <eroomde> yeah i'm a big fan of them. it's the amphenol 62GB range that i use, and they're really fanstastic
[20:54] <jonsowman> eroomde: £50 inc postage and testing for 10 5x3mm SMD crystals with 20ppm temp stability -40 to +80C
[20:54] <eroomde> i think i could hang off the connectors
[20:55] <eroomde> that's not a bad deal at all
[20:55] <jonsowman> no i don't think so
[20:55] <jonsowman> for custom cut crystals i was expecting more
[20:55] <jonsowman> also it means i don't have to get new PCBs made up
[20:55] <jonsowman> since they're the same footprint as the originals
[20:56] <eroomde> yeah
[20:57] <jonsowman> hopefully should avoid the QRM problems it had on the last flight
[20:58] <eroomde> i'll be listening
[20:59] <jonsowman> hopefully fly towards end of next week depending on weather
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[21:12] <fsphil> hope they work well
[21:12] <fsphil> I'm interested to see if they're any less temperature sensitive
[21:12] <eroomde> the xtals?
[21:13] <fsphil> yea
[21:14] <eroomde> have you been affected by crystal drift?
[21:14] <eroomde> i sound like the end of an episode of crimewatch
[21:14] <fsphil> *pixelated face* it all happened so quickly
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> 'Don't have nightmares, and remember, the likelyhood of being shot in the face on your doorstep is small'
[21:15] <daveake> These things do happen, but not very frequently
[21:15] <fsphil> I'm interested in trying olivia or dominoex, where drift is !good
[21:16] <eroomde> mmm
[21:16] <eroomde> oven controlled crystal oscillator :D
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[21:16] <eroomde> being not silly for a second, the ublox lea-6t modules provide a 10MHz timepulse output
[21:17] <fsphil> I've powered up my two test boards with the blink program, they're keeping time perfectly so far
[21:17] <eroomde> now there's a bit of jitter on the rise time
[21:17] <eroomde> but the freq stability is bang on
[21:17] <fsphil> how could that be used to drive something like the ntx2?
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[21:18] <eroomde> you can combine that with a 10MHz tcxo in a pll, which would give you the freq stability of the gps with the phase stability of the tcxo and give you an extraodinarily precise ref
[21:18] <eroomde> then you'd have a 10mhz clock available on the payload for all sorts of things. you migt have to splice it into an ntx2
[21:18] <eroomde> it might not be nice - i.e. you might have to ppl it
[21:18] <eroomde> pll*
[21:18] <eroomde> or fracional-n then PLL
[21:19] <eroomde> but in principle
[21:19] <fsphil> be eastier to make a radio likely
[21:19] <r2x0t> easier to just design your own radio
[21:19] <eroomde> and it means that for uplinks especially you could do some cool stuff
[21:19] <r2x0t> with PLL locked to GPS
[21:19] <eroomde> because you could have the upink filter really really really tight because you can guarantee that it'll be listening at precisely the right freq
[21:20] <r2x0t> for what we need, you only need PLL with I2C bus or something like most of them have
[21:20] <eroomde> sorry that's vague, by uplink filter i mean the receiver on the balloon's filter
[21:20] <r2x0t> ah, you mean for rxing...
[21:20] <eroomde> yeah
[21:21] <r2x0t> for uplink, use wide enough signal so drift doesn't matter
[21:21] <eroomde> so instead of having to keep the bandpass filter 1khz wide because going more tight might mean it'll drift of the ground station's freq, you can narrow it right right down and so get the SNR right up
[21:21] <r2x0t> on ground, power is not that limited :)
[21:21] <eroomde> ah, it is
[21:21] <eroomde> if you're using the amateur license
[21:22] <eroomde> or rather, not using the amateur license because it's not really legal
[21:22] <fsphil> I've been wondering about that. would the ntx2 suddenly be illegal if I transmitted from a payload using my callsign?
[21:22] <r2x0t> what's the max you can do with basic 70cm licence? I think at least few watts
[21:23] <eroomde> fsphil: i don't think so because if it's 10mW you can do what you like
[21:23] <eroomde> r2x0t: not sure but it doesn't matter - the license doesn't cover uplinking to balloons
[21:23] <eroomde> it covers talking to other hams and the remote control of ham equipment
[21:23] <fsphil> just seems very vague-- what makes it an amateur radio vs. exempt
[21:24] <eroomde> fsphil: power and freq i guess
[21:24] <fsphil> it's whats stopping me do the low power repeater
[21:24] <r2x0t> these rules are quite stupid then
[21:24] <fsphil> I wouldn't want to get anyone into trouble
[21:24] <eroomde> you'd be free to broadcast anything from a balloon, some else's amateur radio callsign, or a garage door opening signal, or anything. it's just an orthogonal issue to amateur licensing
[21:25] <eroomde> r2x0t: yes
[21:25] <eroomde> it's annoying
[21:25] <eroomde> it's also the kind of thing you could probably get away with without people noticing
[21:25] <eroomde> and people have
[21:25] <eroomde> but when you're actually asking the question as to whether or not it's legal, annoyingly not
[21:26] <r2x0t> I think it's just grey area
[21:26] <r2x0t> you can always claim it was ground testing
[21:26] <eroomde> i mean you could just be broadcasting some dtmf numbers to your amateur radio mate down the road and coincidently the balloon happens to overhear them and act on them
[21:26] <r2x0t> ^
[21:27] <nigelvh> Seriously, somebody do the garage door opener. Just cycle through codes.
[21:27] <r2x0t> lol
[21:27] <r2x0t> or door bell
[21:27] <r2x0t> cycle all codes
[21:27] <eroomde> or car opening
[21:27] <r2x0t> car door keys use rolling codes
[21:27] <r2x0t> so that shouldn't work
[21:28] <eroomde> jam them all then
[21:28] <eroomde> at any rate
[21:28] <fsphil> I do that already, at least in the immediate area
[21:28] <eroomde> my car keyfob stops working if there's a payload nearby
[21:29] <jonsowman> mine too
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> why is everyone obsessed with OCXOs
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> use a VCTCXO with gps lock
[21:29] <fsphil> for a second there I thought you'd wrote OXO
[21:29] Action: fsphil needs new eyes
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:30] <eroomde> because ocxos are staaaaaaaaaaaaaaable
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> i guess
[21:30] <nigelvh> I've got a big 10MHz HP OCXO you could use, only weighs a pound or two.
[21:30] <eroomde> it's all sledgehammer to a nail for hab discussion
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> - but gps sync isnt exactly hard
[21:30] <Matt_soton> i made a VCTCXO without gps lock
[21:30] <Matt_soton> shame it jammed gps
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> really simple way - run the micro off the same xtal
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> then use 1pps and input capture
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[21:32] <eroomde> feedback from the ntx2 in a similar way could be fun
[21:33] <eroomde> so close the loop with a gps-disciplined pulse that resets a counter that is measuring ntx2 freq
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> a little hard to get the xtal out
[21:33] <eroomde> have it run nice and fast, maybe 10khz
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> xtal frequency
[21:33] <eroomde> oh i mean at 434mhz
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> oh
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> si4432 has a square wave input
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> so nice and simple
[21:34] <eroomde> and just command an actual frequency in the control loop with a pid to find it
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[21:34] <Laurenceb_> heh
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> OCXO based rtty :P
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> that would have a low baud rate
[21:34] <eroomde> you matched filters could be 1hz wide
[21:34] <eroomde> your*
[21:35] <eroomde> lol yes it would be quite a slow thing
[21:35] <eroomde> maybe for interplanetary beacons
[21:38] <fsphil> hmm.. kernel panic, we meet again
[21:38] <jonsowman> oh dear
[21:38] <jonsowman> that's always bad
[21:39] <fsphil> seemed to happen when I started mplayer, probably a bug in the video stuffs
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> on your pi?
[21:39] <fsphil> nah, thinkpad
[21:39] <Matt_soton> any thoughts on using these instead of a normal ferrite bead on the power rail for a radio: http://uk.farnell.com/tdk/mem2012w181r/filter-wideband-0805-180mhz/dp/1669524 ?
[21:40] <eroomde> don't see a problem
[21:40] <eroomde> if it's an analogue radio
[21:41] <Matt_soton> i would assume they would give better attenution due to the due inductor arrangment?
[21:43] <eroomde> bode plot is their for your amusement if you want to research it
[21:43] <eroomde> there*
[21:44] <eroomde> the only caution with those things in a general hand wavy way is that some devices with fast digital switching dont like that kind of filtering on their input lines
[21:44] <Matt_soton> mind you depends on my load nad kinda hard to compare to a 600ohm @ 1MHz ferrite :/
[21:44] <eroomde> it stops the fets from being driven on so fast, that can upset certain things in certain applications, especially timing sensitive ones
[21:44] <eroomde> so forexample gps receivers often recomment not having any kind of inductive power smoothing on their power input
[21:45] <Matt_soton> yea i saw that on the ublox manual
[21:45] <eroomde> it can take them a lot longer to aquire with if it's present
[21:45] <Matt_soton> this is for the RF stage of a IC rather then digital
[21:46] <eroomde> i'm not sure preicsely why but in a hand wavy way i assume it's something to do with the hardware correlators
[21:46] <eroomde> yeah, it'll probably be fine for that
[21:46] <Matt_soton> i would have thought enough capacitance after the inductor for the GPS thing would avoid it but who knows
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> oh - what people were saying about saw on gps
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> im not convinced
[21:48] <eroomde> what were they saying?
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> in my experience ublox5 is _really_ sensitive to power supply noise
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> that a saw is a very good idea on the ant
[21:48] <eroomde> and you say ney?
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> ive had a load of issues making ublox5 work
[21:48] <eroomde> we are but men [rock!]
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> all due to power supply noise
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> choke and some low esr caps seems to fix it
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> choke, 1uF MLCC, 47uF tantalum has worked for me
[21:50] <eroomde> it's home time
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> i had one board with messy cable with 1uF decoupling on the end
[21:50] <eroomde> ttfn
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> it refused to get a lock
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> cya
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> due to noise from my laptop
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> you are still at work ?!
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb_, got that too with Upu's GPS on breadboard
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> when I placed it on the laptop, received signal strenghth went down
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> and lock was lost
[21:51] Action: Laurenceb_ pictures eroomde slaving single handedly building skylon
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> yeah - in my experience is pickup through the power supply, not the antenni
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:12] <fsphil> for that proper mad scientist look: uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=2102054
[22:12] <craag> Can someone tell me what advantages I get with a backup battery on the MAX-6 GPS?
[22:13] <fsphil> quicker startup times
[22:15] <craag> So <1s as opposed to <30 seconds. Is it worth it?
[22:15] <fsphil> by which I mean it can get a lock quicker if it has recent data
[22:16] <fsphil> depends on how difficult it is to add to your setup
[22:16] <fsphil> if it requires rebuilding, I wouldn't bother
[22:16] <craag> I suppose it only needs to be a small button battery.
[22:16] <fsphil> yea
[22:17] <craag> Ok, I'll try it with. Thanks!
[22:17] <jonsowman> it can help it get a lock under dynamic conditions as well
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[22:18] <jonsowman> also i think they remember their config?
[22:18] <fsphil> was wondering about that, not sure
[22:18] <fsphil> although I'd not trust it, and just send the setup commands anyway
[22:18] <jonsowman> true
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[22:19] <jonsowman> i have mine check for nav mode
[22:19] <jonsowman> at the moment it just lights up a red led
[22:19] <jonsowman> which is pretty useless
[22:20] <jonsowman> but once i've got a new joey i'll make the firmware better
[22:20] <fsphil> leds are never useless :)
[22:20] <fsphil> yea- I've gotta fix the ubx code on swift, it doesn't deal with ack's very well atm
[22:20] <jonsowman> point
[22:20] <jonsowman> yeah
[22:20] <jonsowman> the ack's caught me out
[22:20] <fsphil> I'm gonna make an LED cube with my new found soldering skilz
[22:21] <fsphil> well, going to try
[22:21] <fsphil> 6 square boards, with an led matrix on each
[22:21] <jonsowman> led cubes are cool
[22:22] <fsphil> need to figure out how to drive so many leds at the same time
[22:22] <jonsowman> fsphil: charlieplexing
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[22:24] <fsphil> that has a slight flicker to it, but it might be the only cheap way
[22:25] <jonsowman> yeah
[22:25] <jonsowman> banks of shift registers
[22:25] <jonsowman> ?
[22:25] <fsphil> was thinking of that
[22:25] <fsphil> will have to read up on them, never done it before
[22:26] <jonsowman> they're the easiest thing ever to use
[22:27] <fsphil> there might need to be too many
[22:27] <jonsowman> they're pretty cheap
[22:27] <jonsowman> maxim do many samples of them too
[22:27] <jonsowman> depends how many leds you want to drive of course
[22:27] <fsphil> 8x8, 64
[22:27] <fsphil> on each face
[22:28] <fsphil> mmm samples
[22:29] <jonsowman> doable
[22:29] <jonsowman> if that's what you wanted to do
[22:29] <fsphil> been considering doing one for ages
[22:29] <fsphil> just a silly little project
[22:29] <jonsowman> they're the best ones
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[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> good night fsphil jonsowman and everyone else!
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> ah stop wait
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> if someone is still there
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> can an SD card run at 3.3V?
[22:52] <Darkside> yes
[22:52] <Darkside> thats their default voltsge iirc
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> cool thanks!
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> and one more thing
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> if I need to break down a voltage I use a voltage divider
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> what if I need to go the other way?
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> use a step-up or how it is called?
[22:53] <Darkside> theres a few options
[22:53] <r2x0t> usually nothing
[22:53] <Darkside> sparkfun has level converters
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:53] <r2x0t> at trigger level is high enough
[22:53] <Darkside> but yeah, a 5v avr will acvept 3.3v logic
[22:53] <r2x0t> *as
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> cool thanks
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> good night! :)
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 8 2012