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[01:49] <Joe_> anybody have a balloon up right now?
[01:50] <Joe_> I'm launching a high altitude balloon sunday, my first time :)
[01:52] <Joe_> HELLO?
[01:52] <Joe_> ANYONE THERE!
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[01:52] <Joe_> hi
[01:52] <Joe_> hi zamabe
[01:53] <Joe_> ZAMABE!!!!!!
[01:53] <zamabe> Joe_'s crab shack.
[01:53] <Joe_> what
[01:54] <Joe_> I dont own a crab shack...
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[01:55] <joe_> hello ZAMABE
[01:55] <joe_> ZAMABE
[01:55] Last message repeated 3 time(s).
[01:55] <joe_> ZAMABE!
[01:56] Last message repeated 6 time(s).
[01:56] <zamabe> holy shit.
[01:56] <joe_> ZAMABE!
[01:56] <joe_> laughing out lound
[01:56] <joe_> has you launched a balloon before
[01:56] <joe_> ZAMABE!
[01:57] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[01:57] <zamabe> Only one. From Bellevue, Washington, USA. Payload: One dead human body.
[01:57] <joe_> Hey, I'm launching one sunday from washington
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[06:29] <SP9UOB> Hi
[06:29] <SamSilver> SP9UOB: pretty quite here this time of day/night
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[06:45] <eroomde> morning
[06:45] <daveake> morning ed
[06:45] <eroomde> yo daveake
[06:45] <eroomde> how are things?
[06:46] <daveake> launch imminnent?
[06:46] <daveake> Ah, not bad. Got 2 payloads nearly ready to choose from this weekend
[06:48] <daveake> Have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLxaee3hUu4
[06:49] <eroomde> i spent the weekend on the norfolk coast
[06:49] <eroomde> cycling, flying a powerkite (ouch) and bbq-ing
[06:49] <eroomde> was perfeck
[06:50] <daveake> nice
[06:51] <eroomde> that's quite a thing to launch
[06:51] <daveake> yup
[06:52] <eroomde> chute didn't inflate
[06:54] <daveake> They should have just left the tent door open
[06:55] <daveake> They say "6m/s landing speed" but I don't think they had any means of measuring it
[06:56] <eroomde> rigorously calculated
[06:56] <eroomde> in a wind tunnel
[06:56] <daveake> tentative figure?
[06:56] Action: daveake collects coat
[06:57] <eroomde> you're a funny guy
[07:06] Action: UpuWork looks at daveake up and down
[07:06] <UpuWork> how do you do a look of distain on IRC ?
[07:06] <daveake> No idea, but I see one
[07:07] <UpuWork> :)
[07:08] <daveake> Flight forecasts for sat and sun have settled down, with either ok atm
[07:08] <eroomde> lighten up UpuWork
[07:09] <eroomde> you're being a bit... intents
[07:09] <eroomde> that doesn't work so well when written
[07:10] <daveake> I'm sure that was inadvertent
[07:10] <UpuWork> meh back at work
[07:10] <UpuWork> plus side
[07:10] <UpuWork> its almost the weekend
[07:11] <daveake> true
[07:11] <daveake> maybe even a hab weekend
[07:11] <UpuWork> yup
[07:13] <eroomde> you dont actually have to lighten up
[07:13] <eroomde> i was just engineering an opportunity to drop that pun
[07:14] Action: UpuWork pats eroomde
[07:15] <daveake> doh! just spotted "funny guy"
[07:15] <eroomde> :)
[07:16] <daveake> Current prediction for saturday - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=701e96c9f526a1c7d3bb45adce7b7eeeb062ea08
[07:16] <daveake> and sunday http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a5c803ca1508f9e7213dab8b852f3b86f21e9363
[07:17] <UpuWork> both look ok
[07:17] <UpuWork> why is one bursting 2km below the other ?
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[07:17] <eroomde> i have no excuse for not going on a chase
[07:17] <UpuWork> that one not been sprayed with au du Randall ?
[07:17] <UpuWork> eau
[07:18] <daveake> Oh, because one landed on the M40 :D
[07:18] <daveake> well looked close anyway
[07:19] <daveake> eroomde chase bike?
[07:19] <eroomde> note also you might be landing on martin baker
[07:19] <eroomde> their airfield
[07:19] <eroomde> which is the grey triangle by chalgrove
[07:20] <eroomde> on sunday that is
[07:21] <daveake> Yeah, Saturday looks better even though the landing point is further from here
[07:21] <eroomde> that region on sunday though is good in general
[07:21] <eroomde> nice and flat
[07:22] <number10> would be nice to send a camera up with a few breaks in the cloud
[07:22] <eroomde> and i know who to talk to if you needed to get onto martin baker
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[07:22] <eroomde> where i work now seems to be a valley that encourages storms
[07:22] <eroomde> they seem to form at one end and develop as they travel up
[07:22] <eroomde> so i'd really like to try and launch something into one
[07:23] <eroomde> i just need to arrnage some kind of storm-ffiendly arrnagement with Miller Lite
[07:23] <number10> would be interesting to launch a rocket with a long trailing wire in a remote location
[07:24] <eroomde> :)
[07:24] <eroomde> rain death on your enemies
[07:24] <eroomde> i was wondering about inducing lighening from a hab
[07:24] <eroomde> maybe with 2 very long lengths of thing wire and a spark gap between them
[07:24] <daveake> The video from ANU2 looks like it was inducing rain and snow
[07:25] <eroomde> to get something several 100m long with a large potential difference between one end and the other
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[07:25] <number10> sounds like fun
[07:25] <griffonbot> Received email: SP9UOB "[UKHAS] Launch announcement"
[07:27] <eroomde> indeed maybe just a spark plug itself would be enough
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[07:27] <eroomde> you just need to make a few ions to cause an avalanche breakdown
[07:29] <number10> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN4QRwHCOXQ
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[07:31] <number10> what payloads do you have made up daveake ?
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[07:35] <eroomde> i'd like to fire a rocket whose tether wire terminates in a big pot of thermite
[07:35] <daveake> lightweight one in a 10cm ball, and a camera one in a 15cm ball
[07:36] <daveake> both almost completed, not quite
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[07:36] <daveake> will try and get my larger tracker put in a box too - the one with GSM backup, in a box with video and camera
[07:38] <number10> thats pretty good going - I only managed to do just one - a camera payload
[07:42] <number10> it does take a bit longer to do controller on square pad board - but I dont have the patiencs to lay out PCBs
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[07:48] <eroomde> it's a joy once you get into it
[07:48] <eroomde> promise
[07:49] <number10> I should give it a go then
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[07:53] <jcoxon> damn, it seems that they've switched off the 2m packet radio on the iSS
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[07:55] <number10> is that what you were planning to use on erurs jcoxon ?
[07:55] <number10> eurus
[07:55] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:55] <jcoxon> they've switched on the 70cm packet system though
[07:55] <jcoxon> but that makes it a little harder
[07:57] <jcoxon> how frustrating
[07:59] <SamSilver> jcoxon: what about asking them to put it on for you
[07:59] <SamSilver> not being funny
[07:59] <SamSilver> i have no idea who you would address that to
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[08:09] <jcoxon> apparently the power supply they use for the packet radio is needed for an air purifier
[08:09] <jcoxon> we'll try with the 70cm version
[08:09] <jcoxon> the question really is doppler
[08:11] <Elwell> stunning burst photo at http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/641728main_camilla-pop.jpg
[08:11] <Elwell> via http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/camilla-flight.html
[08:15] <WillDuckworth> can you use the same ntx or rfm transmitters jcoxon?
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[08:22] <jcoxon> WillDuckworth, i don't think so
[08:22] <WillDuckworth> not enough oompf
[08:22] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:26] <jcoxon> hehe we should get them to listen in for our 70cm telem
[08:28] <WillDuckworth> they'd def get a few sesntences!
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[08:38] <nosebleedkt_> Hello everybody!
[08:38] <nosebleedkt_> thats my final payload !
[08:38] <nosebleedkt_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/599323_469648993049150_1749707953_n.jpg
[08:41] <WillDuckworth> well done nosebleedkt_ - when are you launching?
[08:41] <nosebleedkt_> some weekend during the 2nd half of july
[08:47] <SamSilver> nosebleedkt_: what is the black object on the top of the payload?
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[08:53] <nosebleedkt_> SamSilver: that little one?
[08:53] <nosebleedkt_> external temp sensor
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[08:59] <SamSilver> nosebleedkt_: do you have an internal aswell?
[08:59] <nosebleedkt_> yes
[08:59] <SamSilver> I have seen that most external temp sensors are shielded from the sun
[08:59] <nosebleedkt_> just to measure the difference and see if my insulation idead worked :)
[09:00] <SamSilver> most times with a bit of styrofoam cup
[09:00] <nosebleedkt_> why to shield it from the sun ?
[09:00] <SamSilver> well the sun will warm it up
[09:00] <nosebleedkt_> haha
[09:00] <nosebleedkt_> on -50C ?
[09:00] <SamSilver> and if you want tomeasure the air temp
[09:01] <nosebleedkt_> ok it should be a measure under the sun and not under the shade :)
[09:01] <SamSilver> yes like when you sun tan
[09:01] <SamSilver> the air is the same temp in the shade as in the sun
[09:02] <nosebleedkt_> I'm paying so much attention on that kind of stuff. Now really matters that the mission will work, eventually after 3years of work :)
[09:02] <nosebleedkt_> I'm NOT *
[09:03] <nosebleedkt_> so for me that detail is not of any importance
[09:03] <nosebleedkt_> at least for 1st time :)
[09:04] <SamSilver> what else are you measuring?
[09:05] <SamSilver> temp: int temp: ext
[09:05] <nosebleedkt_> all other sensors are inside, and its humidity + barometer
[09:05] <nosebleedkt_> the usual from sparkfun
[09:05] <SamSilver> data logging?
[09:05] <SamSilver> sd card
[09:05] <nosebleedkt_> sure
[09:06] <nosebleedkt_> main system does lots of things
[09:06] <SamSilver> well roll on july
[09:06] <nosebleedkt_> telemetry, data logging, jpeg imaging, sensors
[09:06] <nosebleedkt_> thank you :)
[09:07] <SamSilver> nosebleedkt_: and how will the lid be fixed on?
[09:07] <SamSilver> pink tape?
[09:07] <nosebleedkt_> I don't get you
[09:08] <SamSilver> the lid of the payload looks like it is loose
[09:08] <nosebleedkt_> you mean the top plate?
[09:08] <SamSilver> how will you stop it from opening up in flight?
[09:08] <SamSilver> yes top plate
[09:08] <SamSilver> = lid
[09:08] <nosebleedkt_> if you mean that, I will pass some more tape
[09:09] <nosebleedkt_> but its not loose
[09:09] <nosebleedkt_> i actually kicked it
[09:09] <nosebleedkt_> the whole thing
[09:09] <nosebleedkt_> and nothing happened
[09:09] <nosebleedkt_> :P
[09:10] <nosebleedkt_> the only thing im curious is the with the antennas
[09:10] <nosebleedkt_> im afraid of the cords
[09:10] <SamSilver> I hope to launch in august
[09:10] <nosebleedkt_> being tangled
[09:10] <nosebleedkt_> when the balloon bursts
[09:10] <nosebleedkt_> SamSilver: first flight yours?
[09:10] <SamSilver> yes I am a virgin
[09:10] <nosebleedkt_> lool me too
[09:13] <nosebleedkt_> and you will flight it from the wild jungle?
[09:14] <SamSilver> if the monkeys do not steal it
[09:14] <nosebleedkt_> lions hunting you while monkeys raping your car ?
[09:14] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[09:15] <SamSilver> i have tame guinea fowl and the shit on the car and ... well they shit on everything
[09:15] <nosebleedkt_> hahaha
[09:16] <SamSilver> http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/birds/numididae/numida_meleagris.htm
[09:19] <gonzo__> Last friday we were talking about how the seagulls make such a mess on the cars in the works carpark
[09:19] <nosebleedkt_> SamSilver: soooo sweet
[09:19] <gonzo__> I explained how I chose my park space to avoid them and we look out odf the window to see.
[09:19] <gonzo__> and saw the biggest shite you have ever seen all across the car
[09:20] <gonzo__> bonnet to boot
[09:20] <gonzo__> the bugger must have mugged half a dozen other gulls and wrung them out over it
[09:21] <kokey> sounds like life in gibraltar
[09:21] <SamSilver> seagull shit is runny
[09:21] <SamSilver> guinea fowl poop is a semi firm
[09:23] <jcoxon> ummmm
[09:23] <gonzo__> for some odd reason, you can't shoot the buggers. Protected for some reason
[09:23] <jcoxon> back on topic?
[09:23] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:23] <gonzo__> hehe
[09:24] <nosebleedkt_> jcoxon: :)
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[09:32] <WillDuckworth> hey jcoxon - got the gumstix going - took most of the weekend
[09:32] <jcoxon> haha
[09:33] <jcoxon> whats your plan with it?
[09:33] <WillDuckworth> use it for logging serial data and maybe transmit ss[tv/dv]
[09:35] <jcoxon> nice
[09:35] <Matt_soton> hey, what switching regulators are generally used for pico?
[09:36] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, i've been using hte Lipower board from sparkfun
[09:36] <jcoxon> but others have used the ncp1402
[09:36] <Matt_soton> thanks , i was wondering because people tend to not be able to run things off a single AAA?
[09:38] <jcoxon> you'll struggle to get the GPS off the ground
[09:38] <jcoxon> once its got a lock perhaps
[09:39] <Matt_soton> well the tps61200 on the sparkfun board should giave 400mA at 1.4V or so?
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[09:52] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, i found that it still struggled
[09:53] <jcoxon> was a lot more efficient with 2xAAA
[09:54] <eroomde> the 1.8V varients of the max6 might be worth a look
[09:54] <Matt_soton> i did see the tps61200 isnt actually that efficient
[09:54] <eroomde> you can certainly get atmegas that run on 1.8V too
[09:54] <Matt_soton> upu doesnt sell them however
[09:54] <eroomde> try alphamicro direcly
[09:54] <eroomde> we've never had a prob buying small qtys from them
[09:55] <Matt_soton> i was going to run it at 2.8V anyway
[09:55] <Matt_soton> my micro can run down to 1.8V, its just getting the 1.8V GPS
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[09:56] <eroomde> well, the benefits of getting the whole sysem at 1.8V are surely worth trying alphamicro on the phone, surely?
[09:56] <Matt_soton> yea true
[09:57] <eroomde> you can still use upu's breakout pcb
[09:57] <Matt_soton> i doubt theyll sell quantites of 2/3
[09:57] <Matt_soton> im making my own pcb anyway
[09:58] <jonsowman> alphamicro are very helpful
[09:58] <jonsowman> give them a ring
[09:58] <Matt_soton> other issue is radio power at lower voltages
[09:59] <Matt_soton> actually it can maintain it at 2V, so 1.8V should be fine
[09:59] <eroomde> worth a try at any rate
[10:00] <Matt_soton> also benoxley wants a NEO for his
[10:02] <eroomde> i just got an oven controlled crystal oscillator (well, a few from ebay)
[10:03] <eroomde> you realise they're meant to be accurate when the can says that the freuqency is '10.000000 Mhz'
[10:03] <Matt_soton> and they give ppb instead of ppm?
[10:05] <eroomde> probably if i could find the datasheet
[10:05] <Matt_soton> how much power do they use?
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[10:07] <eroomde> it's about 2W when warming up
[10:07] <eroomde> and about 1W to hold
[10:07] <Matt_soton> hmm thats quite a bit then
[10:08] <eroomde> quite a lot for something flying but not crazy if the right experiment calls for it
[10:08] <Matt_soton> true
[10:08] <Matt_soton> compensating the crystal based on temperature seems better for normal flights then
[10:08] <eroomde> sure, and much cheaper
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[10:09] <eroomde> but something like a gps disciplined ocxo will let you do some pretty funky stuff
[10:09] <Matt_soton> issue is how much faster the sensor heats up compared to the crystal
[10:09] <eroomde> if you were to have a flying gps ocxo and a ground ocxo and keep them close to each other for say a week, they would become really very very coherent
[10:09] <eroomde> to withing 10^-[13+]
[10:10] <Matt_soton> so phase locked over large distances?
[10:10] <eroomde> so you could then put one of them in a balloon and have almost perfectly coherent clocks on ground and in the air, which might let you do some fun stuff where you need speed of light meausurements or something
[10:11] <eroomde> well they aren't physically phase locked with each other
[10:11] <eroomde> but by virtue of being disciplined with a pll by 2 gps time references that are very close, so measureing the same 'time', they will become coherent
[10:11] <eroomde> and should stay that way for a few hours even if you separate them
[10:12] <Matt_soton> nice, just need to find an experiment
[10:12] <eroomde> as a random asside i think this could be a (albeit sledgehammer) way to do legal uplinks
[10:13] <eroomde> because if you have 2 identical 10mhz sources, one on the ground and one in the air, you can massively notch-filter a balloon-borne receiver
[10:13] <Matt_soton> so blasting 5W on a ammateur liscence a bit of a grey area?
[10:13] <eroomde> yes
[10:14] <eroomde> and if you can tighten the bandwidth you're looking in for your signal, the SNR goes up
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[10:14] <eroomde> so you can probably do 10mW uplinks too
[10:15] <Matt_soton> it still maybe possible if you compensate for hte crystal somewhat and use a rfm22b like reciever
[10:15] <Matt_soton> might need a yagi
[10:15] <eroomde> yes you can use a normal receiver really
[10:15] <eroomde> it's just a question of giving it as good a freq ref as possible
[10:16] <eroomde> so you can specifiy down to say 5hz the uplink frequency and use a really tight matched filter or something
[10:16] <gonzo__> the only limitations opf uaing AR bands for uplink is that you are transmitting to a non licenced station
[10:16] <gonzo__> so how about use something like 446meg
[10:16] <Matt_soton> i was intending to send out 5W to test uplink to my next payload, but can see what the lowest power is
[10:17] <gonzo__> on the ground and an rfm22 in the air?
[10:17] <Matt_soton> yea
[10:18] <Matt_soton> not an rfm22b but same idea
[10:18] <eroomde> i'm sure there are lots of handwaving ways to get around the problem
[10:18] <gonzo__> you are allowed to broadcast on the AR bands. But only CQ calls. So just put CQ ijn the command frame
[10:18] <eroomde> tell a fellow ham that you wish to uplink a command to your paqyload if only you could, and the payload just happens to overhear it
[10:19] <gonzo__> I suggested that one too
[10:20] <Matt_soton> the other thing is doing it automatically, is that allowed?
[10:20] <gonzo__> I did think about an airborne rx on 144.800 and put your commands on the APRS system
[10:20] <gonzo__> automatically?
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[10:22] <Matt_soton> so a station listens and uplinks in the listen window
[10:23] <gonzo__> you mean unattended operation?
[10:23] <Matt_soton> yea
[10:24] <gonzo__> there are some things you can do unattended (mainly on the full licence) but usually you need a GB type call for that sort of thing.
[10:24] <eroomde> GB4FUN
[10:24] <eroomde> i quite want that thing
[10:24] <eroomde> it'd make an awesome field-site command station for habbing
[10:24] <gonzo__> You can run personal beacons and some packet stuff. And erp's are limited.
[10:25] <gonzo__> it's an ompressive mobile shack
[10:25] <Matt_soton> well it only needs to be 5W erp
[10:25] <eroomde> it has a kitchenette too
[10:25] <eroomde> which is the best bet
[10:25] <gonzo__> it comes to AMSAT colloquium each year.
[10:25] <eroomde> do you go to the amsat colloqium each year gonzo__ ?
[10:25] <gonzo__> BTW, anyone on this chan going to this year's amsat do?
[10:26] <gonzo__> yep, been doing it for years
[10:26] <UpuWork> Matt_soton Samantha King <samantha.king@alphamicro.net> +44 1256 851770
[10:26] <eroomde> ok. have i met you then?
[10:26] <Matt_soton> thanks UpuWork
[10:26] <eroomde> i gave a hab talk at the one in 2009
[10:26] <eroomde> in guildford holiday inn
[10:28] <WillDuckworth> i'd be interested in the 1.8v gps units too if you're getting any Matt_soton / Upu....
[10:28] <gonzo__> ah, that was an excellent talk. Twas what got me interested in HABs in the first place.
[10:28] <eroomde> micro SD cards (the newer ones) can do 1.8V
[10:29] <eroomde> BUT, you have to start them at 3.3V and then tell them to go to 1.8V mode
[10:29] <eroomde> which is annoying
[10:29] <eroomde> gonzo__: cool!
[10:29] <Matt_soton> well having the higher power stuff off 1.8V is always useful
[10:29] <Matt_soton> this being a pico wont have SD
[10:30] <UpuWork> WillDuckworth you'll need to get 50+ to get the price down
[10:30] <WillDuckworth> doh
[10:30] <eroomde> but iirc they're still a reasonable £18ish in small numbers
[10:30] <UpuWork> otherwise it will be about £24 delivered each ex VAT probably
[10:31] <eroomde> ah, inflation
[10:31] <Matt_soton> well we'll see what they say
[10:31] <WillDuckworth> something to think about
[10:31] <Matt_soton> i wonder if theres enough interest for UpuWork to carry them along with the 3.3V ones?
[10:32] <UpuWork> £18.78 ex VAT to be exact
[10:32] <Matt_soton> could you send off for a mixed 1.8V/3.3V order?
[10:32] <UpuWork> Possibly I'd have to check with them
[10:32] <eroomde> i'd be interested in a couple i think
[10:33] <eroomde> in the quest for a sumper low power backup beacon
[10:33] <eroomde> super*
[10:33] <WillDuckworth> i'm in for a few
[10:34] <UpuWork> I'll have a chat but I just ordered a load so it will be a while unless you want to go buy 40 MAX-6's
[10:35] <jcoxon> eroomde, the fabled blackbox
[10:35] <eroomde> 6 years in the making
[10:35] <Matt_soton> well ill ring them and see if theyll sell me 2 or so
[10:35] <UpuWork> they will
[10:36] <Matt_soton> nice
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[10:45] <benoxley> jonsowman: you know you were saying about the internal temp measurement of the atmega328?
[10:45] <jonsowman> yep
[10:46] <benoxley> are you sure you have to have aref disconnected for that? doesn't seem to mention it in the datasheet
[10:46] <benoxley> http://g.benoxley.com/e0Gk
[10:47] <jonsowman> iirc, you have to use it with the internal vref
[10:47] <jonsowman> 1V1
[10:47] <jonsowman> and you can't use the internal vref if AREF is externally connected to power
[10:47] <benoxley> okay
[10:47] <jonsowman> it's in the datasheet somewhere
[10:47] <jonsowman> it's connected as one of the ADC channels
[10:48] <jonsowman> so perhaps check the ADC part of the datasheet
[10:48] <jonsowman> brb 5 mins, lemme know if you can find it and i'll have a look for you
[10:48] <jonsowman> brb
[10:48] <benoxley> http://g.benoxley.com/e0Go
[10:50] <benoxley> think I'll put a jumper on it
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[11:19] <WillDuckworth> anyone got a payload working with an ATtiny chip?
[11:19] <jonsowman> i did a test one with a tiny2313 before
[11:19] <jonsowman> why?
[11:20] <WillDuckworth> just wondering if that's my next move after the arduino mini
[11:21] <jonsowman> last time i looked the larger tinys were around the same price as the smaller megas
[11:21] <jonsowman> you need to be careful of RAM
[11:21] <WillDuckworth> hmmm, worth a try
[11:22] <jonsowman> why a tiny rather than a mega168 or something?
[11:22] <jonsowman> they're a couple of quid cheaper at most, and you're much more constrained with RAM and fewer peripherals
[11:23] <WillDuckworth> just curious really.
[11:23] <jonsowman> fair enough
[11:23] <WillDuckworth> less volts/amps/weight/space
[11:24] <WillDuckworth> unless theres a small mega 1.8v
[11:24] <jonsowman> if you're making the move from arduino to plain avr, i'd recommend going with like a 328 or something to that you have room to breathe
[11:25] <jonsowman> WillDuckworth: several of the megas can run on 1V8
[11:25] <jonsowman> the power usage is pretty insignificant
[11:25] <WillDuckworth> cool - just the badger
[11:25] <jonsowman> especially if you turn off the peripherals you're not using
[11:25] <WillDuckworth> agreed
[11:26] <jonsowman> http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega328.aspx
[11:26] <jonsowman> all of the 328 range support 1V8
[11:26] <jonsowman> you'd have to check clock speeds
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[12:45] <Laurenceb> you could use an stm32 :P
[12:58] <nick_> Is stm32 are cortex-mX?
[12:58] <nick_> stm32 are cortex-mX?
[12:58] <eroomde> yes
[12:58] <eroomde> for x in {0,3,4}
[13:01] <Laurenceb> for(uint8_t x=0;x<=4;x++){if(x==1)x=3;printf("%d\r\n",x);}
[13:06] <zyp> I'm sure that if it were possible to seperate type and variable name with something else than whitespace, Laurenceb would avoid the space there as well
[13:07] <fsphil> hah
[13:07] <fsphil> though you could still save space by using just \n
[13:08] <zyp> nah, Laurenceb doesn't mind extra code, he just hates whitespace
[13:09] <fsphil> itisquiteoverratedtobehonest
[13:09] <nick_> Code should not be write only
[13:09] <eroomde> thinkhowmuchmorereadableitwouldbethoughifyouincludespecialcharacter\noktimetostartanewparagraph\nisn'tthisclear?
[13:10] <fsphil> perfectly
[13:11] <fsphil> I don't mind compact code, just wish everyone here in the office would do consistant indentation
[13:12] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about ice-resistant aircon.
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> Now, that's a market.
[13:12] <eroomde> ?
[13:12] <eroomde> in what way ice resistant?
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> That does not get ice on the heat exchanger in cold weather
[13:13] <eroomde> oh well that's a solved problem
[13:13] <eroomde> and no i will not tell
[13:13] <fsphil> ours did that once. our servers overheated on the coldest day of the winter last year
[13:13] <zyp> I love compact code, but not densely typed code
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> And yes, the rocket thingy would seem to have the same issue.
[13:14] <eroomde> 'rocket thingy'
[13:14] <Laurenceb> hahaha
[13:14] <eroomde> harumph
[13:14] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil was just trying a new physiological trick
[13:14] <Laurenceb> try try and make you spill the beans
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> airbreathing spamjet.
[13:14] <eroomde> psychological i think
[13:14] <Laurenceb> *to
[13:14] <Laurenceb> doh autocorrect
[13:14] Action: SpeedEvil is reminded of the LOX+salami rocket.
[13:15] <eroomde> a physiological trick is torture, presumably
[13:15] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:15] <Laurenceb> i was heating my hand to 53C in an oven yesterday, talking of that
[13:15] Action: SpeedEvil gets out his large rubber hose, and starts making sexually suggestive shapes with it.
[13:15] <Laurenceb> i did it FOR SCIENCE
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> 53C core, or skin temp?
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:16] <Laurenceb> skin
[13:16] <Laurenceb> according to a tmp006
[13:16] <Laurenceb> testing flowmeters
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> I keep meaning to make a nice meat-probe using one of those, and a very thin stainless tube.
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Blackened on the inside
[13:17] <Laurenceb> or you could use a thermocouple
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> I suppose that could actually be as fast
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Probably more sane
[13:23] <Laurenceb> pi arrived?
[13:37] Action: nick_ got his Pi registered on the network today.
[13:37] <nick_> Now my results get scped somewhere useful in real time :)
[13:37] <eroomde> nice
[13:37] <eroomde> so they're arriving now?
[13:41] <fsphil> they've been trickling out for a while now
[13:41] <fsphil> this one arrived a few weeks ago
[13:42] <nick_> I registered interest at ~0601 on the first day, so I got mine maybe a month ago now?
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[13:42] <eroomde> Laurenceb: is there a good all in one GPS SAW->LNA->SAW chip?
[13:43] <eroomde> nick_: nice
[13:43] <eroomde> i want one to play with, I must say
[13:43] <Laurenceb> eroomde: dont know sorry
[13:43] <eroomde> ok not to worry
[13:43] <Laurenceb> randomskk has something on wombat
[13:44] <Laurenceb> matching that description
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[13:44] <Laurenceb> got my pi this morning
[13:44] <eroomde> Randomskk: pingady pongapoodle
[13:46] <jonsowman> :\
[13:47] <eroomde> jonsowman: do you know of the chip to which Laurenceb is refering?
[13:47] <fsphil> oh dear
[13:47] <jonsowman> erm
[13:47] <jonsowman> sec
[13:47] <Laurenceb> check flickr?
[13:47] <Laurenceb> theres pcb photos
[13:47] <jonsowman> eroomde: https://github.com/adamgreig/wombat/blob/master/pcb/wombat.csv
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[13:48] <eroomde> ta
[13:48] <jonsowman> http://onecall.farnell.com/avago-technologies/alm-1712-blkg/filter-front-end-lna-gps-12mcob/dp/1865149?Ntt=1865149
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[13:48] <jonsowman> stupid package of the decade award ^
[13:49] <eroomde> wow nice
[13:49] <eroomde> that's quite a thing
[13:49] <jonsowman> yeah it's great
[13:49] <Laurenceb> good luck soldering it
[13:49] <eroomde> oh that's no problem
[13:49] <jonsowman> iirc it was one of the few things on wombat that reflowed perfectly
[13:50] <Laurenceb> oh
[13:50] <eroomde> just making the correct footprint is gonna be a challenge
[13:50] <jonsowman> but adam then thought it hadnt because the input is a DC short to ground
[13:50] <jonsowman> but actually it's meant to be like that
[13:50] <Laurenceb> interesting
[13:50] <eroomde> i can see that that would cause some woe
[13:52] <eroomde> oh yes i see on the datasheet
[13:52] <eroomde> rf goes to gnd via an inductor
[13:52] <jonsowman> yep
[13:53] <jonsowman> obvious in hindsight
[13:53] <jonsowman> as are most things
[13:55] <eroomde> true that
[13:55] <Matt_soton> is that really worth it for a standard hab or was adam just trying something different?
[13:56] <jonsowman> i think he just wanted to try it
[13:56] <eroomde> i've seen a fair share of flights with gps interference issues
[13:56] <Matt_soton> i wonder if it would allow the crappy max7057 to work with gps
[13:56] <eroomde> the old flip HD camera generated a lot of crap that upset the gps
[13:57] <eroomde> it's probably worth putting on a general purpose flight computer, just cos you never know
[13:58] <jonsowman> the ublox 6s seem much more resilient than older ones
[13:58] <jonsowman> but yes i agree it can't hurt
[13:58] <jonsowman> and it may well save much pain later on
[13:58] <fsphil> unless you're rubbish at reflowing stuff :)
[13:58] <Matt_soton> maybe if the package was nicer
[13:58] <eroomde> yes agreed, they do seem a lot more solid
[13:59] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: yeah it's a bit of a pain
[13:59] <jonsowman> fsphil: yeah we stencilled wombat
[13:59] <eroomde> obviously most flights are fine 99% of the time without it
[13:59] <Laurenceb> IC AMP LNA GPS W/FILTER 12MCOB
[13:59] <Laurenceb> 12MCOB... right
[13:59] <fsphil> the next board I order I'm gonna get a stencil
[13:59] <eroomde> totally worth it
[13:59] <eroomde> i wouldn't do it without now
[13:59] <Laurenceb> smtstencil.co.uk
[13:59] <jonsowman> i need to make up a stencilling rig
[14:00] <eroomde> i also like now to make boards with nothing on the reverse side unless there's some very good emi or space-constraining reason
[14:00] <Matt_soton> tweeser soldering iron ftw
[14:00] <eroomde> as it means you can solder the entire board all at once
[14:00] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: that wouldn't help with that package
[14:00] <jonsowman> eroomde: agreed
[14:00] <jonsowman> i hate putting components on the back
[14:00] <Matt_soton> yea for passives
[14:00] <jonsowman> i avoid it at all costs
[14:00] <fsphil> yea, although I sometimes put through hole stuff on the back
[14:00] <jonsowman> fsphil: true, with the exception of pth
[14:00] <eroomde> doing 6 passives individually take as long as 50 passives with an oven
[14:00] <eroomde> it's just a faff
[14:01] <fsphil> I need a proper workspace though -- I'm using the top of the oven atm
[14:01] <eroomde> the stenciling rig is not too bad
[14:01] <eroomde> i just knock them up from old bits of copper clad
[14:01] <jonsowman> no, i just need to actually do it
[14:01] <eroomde> and a few spots of CA glue on each bit
[14:01] <eroomde> takes about 5 mins
[14:01] <jonsowman> :)
[14:02] <eroomde> Laurenceb: i'd get a stainless stencil if you can
[14:02] <jonsowman> considering doing it for new Joey
[14:02] <fsphil> what meterial stensil do you get eroomde?
[14:02] <fsphil> stencil*
[14:02] <eroomde> they last a lot longer and the stiffness of the holes makes a diferrence for fine-pitch stuff
[14:02] <eroomde> stainless fsphil
[14:02] <eroomde> they come for free with orders from pcb pool
[14:02] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:02] <fsphil> aah
[14:02] <Laurenceb> ill try that
[14:02] <eroomde> who have been fantasticly reliable for the past 6 months i've used them
[14:03] Action: fsphil takes notes
[14:03] <Laurenceb> pcb pool is about the same price as pcbtrain
[14:03] <Laurenceb> but pcbtrain suck
[14:03] <Laurenceb> almost all my recent boards have had issues
[14:03] <eroomde> they did about 5 overnight orders from us in the leadup to the scottish campaign. none of them had any issues
[14:03] <Laurenceb> scottish campaign eh
[14:04] <eroomde> tho if time is not an issue it might be worth using fusion pcb service and getting the stencil done separately
[14:04] <Laurenceb> eroomde: king of scotland
[14:04] <eroomde> for real a campaign
[14:04] <Laurenceb> id advise against ever using pcbtrain
[14:04] <fsphil> you may take our freedom, but you'll never take our second stag ... oh, they did
[14:04] <eroomde> complete with seige mentality
[14:05] <Matt_soton> btw what is the best place to get a board made quickely?
[14:06] <Laurenceb> not pcbtrain
[14:06] <Laurenceb> sorry it had to be said
[14:06] <eroomde> if you don't have mates on the inside somewhere, i'd recommend pcb pool
[14:07] <Matt_soton> assuming they dont e-test?
[14:07] <eroomde> they can do 24hr down to 2 weeks with staggered pricing to suit
[14:07] <Matt_soton> actually pcb pool seem alright
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[14:09] <eroomde> they also sell the toaster oven reflow controller
[14:10] <eroomde> which i strongly recommend if you're doing more than maybe 4-5 reflows/yr
[14:10] <fsphil> that the one from beta?
[14:10] <Matt_soton> i dont tend to reflow anything
[14:10] <Matt_soton> but QFN will need to be
[14:10] <eroomde> yes fsphil
[14:10] <fsphil> I seem to have gotten a bad one, sending it back on friday
[14:10] <eroomde> oh that's annoying
[14:11] <eroomde> what's up with it?
[14:11] <eroomde> Matt_soton: it's quite addictive once you start
[14:11] <fsphil> if I move the probe or touch the wire, it lights up the reflow led and aborts the process
[14:11] <eroomde> ah
[14:11] <eroomde> badness
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[14:11] <fsphil> also the buttons all got swapped around on the last firmware update
[14:12] <fsphil> Reflow turns it off, and learn starts a reflow
[14:12] <Matt_soton> i cant see it being much faster using a tweeser to drop parts onto a pad for reflowing compared to using a tweeser iron to solder the component to a pad
[14:12] <fsphil> still great when it's going though -- I've done two boards with it, both work
[14:12] <fsphil> not the cleanest soldering ever
[14:13] <fsphil> I tend to put too much paste on the pads
[14:13] <Matt_soton> also paste is a pain
[14:13] <fsphil> yes
[14:13] <fsphil> it very is
[14:14] <eroomde> i find paste fine
[14:15] <eroomde> just keep it in the fridge
[14:15] <eroomde> Matt_soton: i think it probably would be faster as the actual soldering operation is parallelised across every components, reglardless of package, simultaneously
[14:15] <eroomde> and also you get the advantage of everything auto-aligning because of surface tension
[14:15] <fsphil> it takes ages to cool down before you can use it easily
[14:16] <Matt_soton> i suppose its quicker for ICs
[14:16] <jonsowman> fsphil: warm up?
[14:16] <fsphil> er
[14:16] <fsphil> yea that
[14:16] <fsphil> sorry, hours of vb programming can do horrible things to a mind
[14:16] <eroomde> fsphil: but that's why you use a stencil
[14:16] <jonsowman> haha
[14:16] <eroomde> paste is a pain if you're useing a syringe and trying to blob it on every pad
[14:16] <eroomde> that's masochistic
[14:17] <fsphil> VB is horrible, because even if you do something good in it you feel bad
[14:17] <eroomde> instead just smear a bit of paste across the stencil with a trowl, and you're all done
[14:17] <jonsowman> or car ice scraper
[14:17] <jonsowman> or ruler
[14:17] <fsphil> the boards I've done only had a few parts so I did it blob at a time
[14:17] <eroomde> yes, anything like that
[14:17] <fsphil> the 40-pin IC I just put a line of paste across all the pins
[14:18] <fsphil> only had a couple of bridges
[14:19] <fsphil> the paste I'm using seems to look dirty after it's been reflowed
[14:21] <jonsowman> flux?
[14:21] <jonsowman> different pastes contain varying amounts
[14:21] <fsphil> yea I think it's the flux
[14:21] <Laurenceb> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/2/4/0/5/7/a4698202-217-DSCN7442.JPG
[14:21] <Laurenceb> ill just leave this here
[14:21] <jonsowman> good god
[14:22] <jonsowman> !
[14:23] <daveake> I've had pcbs come back from a couple of hours bobbing about in the sea looking better than that
[14:23] <fsphil> I'm scared
[14:23] <r2x0t> blarghhh...
[14:25] <eroomde> fsphil: that's odd
[14:25] <eroomde> is it old?
[14:25] <eroomde> this is the last board i made
[14:25] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/lLQRG.jpg
[14:25] <eroomde> life is too short to solder that by hand
[14:26] <jonsowman> passives
[14:26] <jonsowman> everywhere
[14:26] <jonsowman> cinnamon jelly beans
[14:26] <jonsowman> seriously
[14:27] <jonsowman> who thought that'd be a good idea
[14:27] <jonsowman> disgusting.
[14:27] <eroomde> mmm, it's for the antialiasing filters and setting the gain of the instrumentation amps
[14:27] <eroomde> lots of passives
[14:27] <fsphil> eroomde: nah, only had the paste about 4 weeks, and it's been in a fridge
[14:27] <jonsowman> really neat board though
[14:27] <jonsowman> i like that's it's laid out in patterns
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[14:28] <Laurenceb> its a antifrost board
[14:28] <eroomde> i like boards with lots of copies of the same thing
[14:28] <jonsowman> eroomde: me too
[14:28] <eroomde> it looks regimented
[14:28] <eroomde> the big chipoid is really lovely
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Some sort of fan controller?
[14:28] <jonsowman> there are some right angled traces though
[14:28] <jonsowman> :P
[14:28] <eroomde> it's an 8 ch simultaneous sampling 16bit 200ksps adc
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[14:29] <SpeedEvil> staggered - so 20khz per channel?
[14:29] cef (~cef@luv/admin/cef) joined #highaltitude.
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> 30
[14:29] <eroomde> no
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Oooh
[14:29] <eroomde> 200ksps simultaneous
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Nice
[14:29] <Laurenceb> thermocouples
[14:29] <Laurenceb> ?
[14:29] <eroomde> useful for capturing trnasient events at different points in say a rocket nozzle
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Heh.
[14:30] <eroomde> anything bridgey really, pressure sensors in this case
[14:30] <Laurenceb> or an antifrost system
[14:30] <Laurenceb> amirit?e
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> I think 200khz is prolly a leetle fast for most thermocouples.
[14:30] <eroomde> yes indeed
[14:30] <eroomde> the thermocouple boxes are like 100hz
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> Wirebreak detectors, I guess, that sort of stuff.
[14:30] <eroomde> they're just the older generation data aquisition
[14:31] <Laurenceb> pressure snesors?
[14:31] <eroomde> pic16f84+rs232 aaaaaaaargh
[14:31] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:31] <eroomde> the newer ones are ethernet and using big atmegas
[14:31] <jonsowman> pic+* = aaaaargh
[14:31] <eroomde> and the next gen ones we're working on now will be stm32f4 and faster ethernet
[14:31] <jonsowman> i have a huge dislike for them after this project
[14:32] <number10> keeping quiet
[14:32] <jonsowman> lol
[14:32] <jonsowman> i'll stop complaining after friday
[14:32] <jonsowman> don't worry
[14:32] <Laurenceb> eroomde: heard about the new F3?
[14:33] <Laurenceb> supposedly it will have 16bit adc
[14:33] <eroomde> oh nice
[14:33] <Laurenceb> also freescale MK51 or whatever its called
[14:33] <eroomde> any idea of the sample rate?
[14:33] <Laurenceb> no
[14:33] <Laurenceb> its secret
[14:33] <eroomde> still, that's cool. another chipoid saved
[14:34] <Laurenceb> freescale have M4 with 16bit
[14:34] <Laurenceb> but its noisy
[14:34] <Laurenceb> only 13ENOB at 700Ksps
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> What about slower?
[14:34] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:34] <eroomde> yeah, for something like this data aquisition board we'd certainly want a dedicated adc, ideally simultaneous sampling
[14:35] <eroomde> the simultaneous sampling thing offends me a bit though
[14:35] <eroomde> but customers always ask
[14:35] <eroomde> they don't understand nyquist or interpolation and resampling
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Nyquist is a lie!
[14:36] <eroomde> :|
[14:36] <Laurenceb> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Freescale-Semiconductor/MK50DX128CLH7/?qs=b%252b6ZnhyoAL8egbBWgMhFUuuSXRv6yGWN
[14:36] <Laurenceb> grr no stock
[14:37] <Laurenceb> hopefull ST will actual;ly have stock when F3 comes otu
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> Simultaneous sampling is important. If you don't have enough bandwidth.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> And even then, if you've got artifacts above nyquist, it's not going to help much
[14:38] <eroomde> oh we do
[14:38] <eroomde> 2khz is plenty for the test rigs
[14:38] <eroomde> we sample at 100x that with this chip
[14:39] <Laurenceb> pressure sensors?
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> Are you actually at teh point of doing stuff where detonation might occur?
[14:39] <eroomde> not by design
[14:40] <Laurenceb> http://www.sequoia.co.uk/components/product.php?d=2&c=102&f=244&p=1285&fmt=grid&pg=product
[14:40] <Laurenceb> insane
[14:40] <Laurenceb> 25Pa full scale
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> neat
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> Now you're gonna make me go and look up rejuster, aren't you.
[14:41] <Laurenceb> a little overspecced for pitot tubes
[14:41] <Laurenceb> brand name for thermal annealing based varistor thing
[14:42] <Laurenceb> the mems anemometer is the clever bit imo
[14:43] <eroomde> kicad schematics are pretty
[14:43] Action: SpeedEvil imagines a little windmill.
[14:43] <Laurenceb> http://www.sequoia.co.uk/components/product.php?d=2&c=102&f=244&p=1288&fmt=grid
[14:43] <Laurenceb> that would actually be usable up to 100Km/h
[14:43] <Laurenceb> so i guess its useful
[14:43] <Laurenceb> pity its big, 5v, and power hungry
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> heh.
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> 'big'
[14:44] <Laurenceb> my current pitot is 3x3x1mm and draws 100uA at 3.3v
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I agree.
[14:44] Lunar_LanderU (~kglinka@cip26.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de) joined #highaltitude.
[14:44] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[14:45] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: do you have a minute?
[14:45] <daveake> 1,440 of them every day
[14:46] <daveake> Oh, you mean a *spare* minute?
[14:46] <Laurenceb> groan
[14:46] <Lunar_LanderU> XD!
[14:46] <Lunar_LanderU> could you help me out with your CHDK script please?
[14:46] <daveake> And that's your minute gone :)
[14:46] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[14:47] <daveake> I just use the intervalometer script that's in the CHDK
[14:47] <Matt_soton> why does PCB pool charge more for GERBER file format then anything else :/
[14:47] <Lunar_LanderU> ah there is one already?
[14:47] <daveake> Though really you only need a short loop: take pic, delay; goto start
[14:47] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[14:47] <daveake> Depends on which chdk but usually there's one there
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[14:48] <Laurenceb> Matt_soton: seriously?!
[14:48] <Matt_soton> yep
[14:48] Action: Laurenceb checks
[14:49] <eroomde> yeah i wondered that
[14:49] <Matt_soton> all other formats are cheaper except gerber
[14:49] <daveake> how strange
[14:49] <Matt_soton> (i havnt checked them all)
[14:49] <eroomde> cheaper to just give them the eagle file
[14:49] <eroomde> but then i always want to spec my own silkscreens etc
[14:49] <Matt_soton> so what would be the best file format...
[14:50] <Matt_soton> could do GC-prevue
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> Possibly less verifiable maautomatically or something?
[14:50] <Matt_soton> rather then let them get the wrong layers from my eagle file
[14:50] <Lunar_LanderU> like that one? http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Countdown_Intervalometer
[14:51] <Laurenceb> hmm i get same prices
[14:51] <Laurenceb> odd
[14:51] <Laurenceb> with e-test
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[14:52] <Lunar_LanderU> hi nigelvh
[14:52] <Laurenceb> lulwut
[14:52] <Laurenceb> i think thats got to be a bug
[14:52] <Matt_soton> you have to pay 10EU to make sure they did it right :P
[14:52] <Laurenceb> gerber is more expensive without e-test
[14:52] <nigelvh> Morning Lunar_LanderU
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[14:53] <Matt_soton> or get fast shipping with seeed/itead...
[14:55] <UpuWork> don't do that
[14:55] <UpuWork> or customs will take you from behind
[14:56] <Matt_soton> they charge tax based on how much shipping costs? :/
[14:56] <UpuWork> its $30 or something then customs take £10 , ups take £15 for the trouble of asking you for £10
[14:56] <Matt_soton> well the boards will only be worth £10
[14:58] <Matt_soton> do seeed mark stuff as gifts?
[14:58] <Laurenceb> no
[14:58] <Matt_soton> i wanted to get some point get some 5x15 boards done, but they might get hit
[14:58] <UpuWork> Actually they mark it up as 1x5mm LED :)
[14:59] <Matt_soton> oh so the value is somewhat lower?
[14:59] <Matt_soton> at least what they write on it
[15:01] <Lunar_LanderU> cu later!
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[15:03] <nick_> Matt_soton: did you have your outreach launch yet?
[15:03] <Matt_soton> na was rained off on sunday
[15:03] <nick_> But you've picked the payload?
[15:03] <Matt_soton> perhaps next weeked/early next week
[15:04] <Matt_soton> there was a change of plan, because the original school fell behind, we are instead launching ping pong balls filled by school kids
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Matt_soton: Do you liquidise them first?
[15:06] <nick_> What are they putting in the balls?
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> He said - school kids.
[15:06] <nick_> It's a shame the original plan fell through.
[15:07] <nick_> I had a similar idea so I tried to think up some experiments kids could try to launch and had a few ideas I think are cool.
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> Seeds.
[15:07] <nick_> Perhaps the coolest of which was to take air samples at different heights and to measure the temp and pressure, etc.
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> Can you be cruel to insects?
[15:08] <nick_> Then you can see that the different gasses reduce exponetially based on their mass, I think.
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> umm - that's not really true
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> the atmosphere is pretty well-mixed -with exceptions for stuff like ozone and water.
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> Until you get up quite high indeed. (much higher than balloons)
[15:12] <nick_> Hmm, really?
[15:13] <Laurenceb> aiui yes
[15:13] <Laurenceb> its only up in the upper mesosphere where it starts getting unmixed
[15:14] <nick_> I don't mean it gets separated, but doesn't the composition change with height?
[15:14] <nick_> I mean, naively, doesn't the amount of a gas go something like A e^{-m / h}?
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[15:15] <nick_> Or h/m
[15:15] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comparison_US_standard_atmosphere_1962.svg
[15:15] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Of isolated gasses
[15:15] <Laurenceb> but its too mixed for the gaeeses to sperate
[15:15] <nick_> I know they don't separate
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> nick_: If you have stuff smacking into a molecule at 300m/s - then it's gonna mix it quite effectively
[15:16] <nick_> But if you could take a number of samples at different rates and compare the relative compositions of the gasses you should see the more massive ones falling off first, no?
[15:17] <eroomde> vapour pressure of water is something that you will see an interest change in across hab-altitudes
[15:17] <eroomde> and of course the ozone layer is an obvious layer
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> nick_: To a very limited degree - mixing is a really dominant effect
[15:18] <nick_> Where is the ozone layer?
[15:18] <nick_> 20km?
[15:19] <eroomde> i think 20km in winter and at the poles
[15:19] <eroomde> goes a bit higher in the summer
[15:21] <fsphil> the atmosphere is amazing, considering it's just a big ball of gas there's so much going on in it
[15:21] <nick_> Has anyone launched any small animals?
[15:21] <nick_> Or is that frowned upon?
[15:21] Action: UpuWork frowns at nick_
[15:22] <UpuWork> you know there is no "air" up there yeah ?
[15:22] <choppyhorse> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_limit
[15:22] <choppyhorse> that was in response to animals
[15:22] <nick_> I was thinking you'd put them in some bottle that has enough air in it for them.
[15:22] <kokey> could launch a sealed ant farm
[15:22] <kokey> darn I should have kept that idea for myself
[15:22] <fsphil> don't you read comics? that'll end in disaster for the human race
[15:23] <choppyhorse> also, cancer
[15:23] <kokey> not if you launch cockroaches
[15:23] <kokey> they'll be fine
[15:23] <kokey> you could probably do it without putting them in a sealed enclosure
[15:24] <nick_> Can a coke bottle handle 1 bar?
[15:24] <kokey> minus what, without air? no problem
[15:24] <eroomde> nick_: yes easily
[15:24] <eroomde> coke bottles can handle internal pressure delats of about 15bar
[15:24] <eroomde> deltas*
[15:24] <nick_> So you could stick a mouse in a coke bottle and it would have an air supply for a number of hours?
[15:24] <eroomde> not sure if that's true at low temps tho
[15:24] <eroomde> don't know the glass transition temp of coke bottle plastic
[15:25] <nick_> eroomde: I'm putting together a specification for a HAB version of my detector.
[15:26] <nick_> At the moment I have requirements of mass < 1kg
[15:27] <nick_> Enough battery capacity for 6 hours operation
[15:27] <eroomde> nick_: martin wood complex
[15:27] <nick_> Is there some size constraint?
[15:27] <eroomde> will i find it if i just head to normal DoP on banbury road?
[15:28] <nick_> Martin Wood is in the other building.
[15:28] <nick_> It's at the other end of Keble road
[15:28] <eroomde> nick_: not really, if it can fit in a ~ 30cm box then good
[15:28] <eroomde> nick_: ah ok
[15:28] <eroomde> so i'll take the back roas as it going to uni parks
[15:28] <eroomde> ie parks road, and try and park there]
[15:28] <nick_> I'm not sure where you can park
[15:29] <eroomde> usually thre are places on parks road
[15:29] <eroomde> often anyway
[15:29] <eroomde> its a bit quieter
[15:29] <eroomde> well anyway, i should get going
[15:29] <eroomde> i'll be at this lecture tonight
[15:29] <nick_> OK, one quick question
[15:29] <eroomde> at the complex
[15:29] <nick_> What temperature range?
[15:29] <eroomde> on SQA
[15:29] <eroomde> -50 is the coldest it'd see if exposed to the outside
[15:29] <nick_> (with insulation)
[15:29] <eroomde> but if you really need warmer we can do that
[15:30] <eroomde> all the way up to 30C constant temp
[15:30] <eroomde> ust depends on power budgets and stuff
[15:30] <eroomde> really gtg now, apols
[15:30] <nick_> OK
[15:30] <nick_> cool, have fun at the talk
[15:30] <eroomde> ta
[15:30] <eroomde> ttfn
[15:30] <nick_> I may or may not drop by
[15:30] <eroomde> ok
[15:30] <eroomde> you've my mob if so
[15:30] <eroomde> afk
[15:36] <nick_> So let's say you put a mouse in a coke bottle, insulate it so it doesn't freeze and send it near space. Will the animal rights terrorists start sending you letter bombs?
[15:37] <chris_99> probably
[15:37] <chris_99> it seems rather cruel to me
[15:37] <UpuWork> nick_ that wouldn't be ethical
[15:38] <UpuWork> feel free to explain the science behind your experiment
[15:40] <fsphil> that would just be cruel
[15:41] <nick_> Would it be cruel?
[15:41] <fsphil> yep
[15:42] <Laurenceb> 2L bottles can resist 150psi
[15:42] <nick_> I guess there's no real experiment you can do with just one mouse going up.
[15:42] <Laurenceb> itd be fine
[15:42] <nick_> But it just means your mouse is an almost cosmonaut.
[15:42] <Laurenceb> ... until it landed in the sea
[15:43] <fsphil> or ran out of air after 2 hours in a sealed container
[15:43] <fsphil> or landed at 15m/s if the parachutes fail
[15:43] <fsphil> or if the payload landed in a tree and you where unable to recover it
[15:43] <nick_> I assume you'd test that there's enough air for it to survive.
[15:44] <UpuWork> nick_
[15:44] <UpuWork> don't launch a mouse
[15:44] <UpuWork> or anything else thats alive pls
[15:44] <nick_> OK
[15:45] <nick_> I just thought it's an interesting problem: can you make a survival capsule for a small animal?
[15:45] <nick_> Like the early days of the space race...
[15:45] <nick_> Although I fear a lot of their animals died.
[15:49] <nick_> Didn't the dog die but they covered it up?
[15:49] <UpuWork> yeah it died
[15:49] <UpuWork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika
[15:49] <nick_> Laika?
[15:50] <UpuWork> so they proved dogs die in hot space craft so you don't need too
[15:50] <SamSilver> i hated the ruzkies for years
[15:50] <zyp> a lot of animals used for science during the years have died
[15:51] <nick_> I don't mind using animals for research.
[15:51] <nick_> I feel bad for the people that do it for the hassle they get.
[15:52] <Laurenceb> in b4 animal rights flamewar
[15:52] <nick_> Here we have a research lab that's locked down like a prison because of the animal rights terrorists.
[15:52] <Laurenceb> arg
[15:53] <Laurenceb> prople are uploading cocks to my dropbox
[15:53] <nick_> But I guess that's pretty off topic.
[15:53] <nick_> I won't try to launch a rat, no matter how adventurous he may be.
[15:53] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/JKfsd.jpg
[15:54] <fsphil> yea like I'm gonna open that link
[15:55] <fsphil> people can upload to dropbox?
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[15:55] <fsphil> to your account?
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[15:57] <Laurenceb> yes - i obviously let too many people use it
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[16:07] <zyp> Laurenceb, that's a nice cock
[16:07] <zyp> which board is that?
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[16:08] <Laurenceb> pic24 eval
[16:08] <Laurenceb> 18F starter kit even
[16:08] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qKQ2z3ki-WY
[16:09] <zyp> ah, makes sense
[16:09] <zyp> «pic» is pronounced in the same way as the norwegian equivalent of «dick»
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[16:10] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:10] <zyp> we spell it «pikk»
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[16:21] <nick_> Have people used coolcomponents.co.uk?
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[16:27] <zyp> yep
[16:27] <craag> nick_: I've got a couple of of things from there, also had a placement interview there ;)
[16:28] <nick_> I'm thinking of trying out the beta mbed 3g dongle library
[16:28] <nick_> They linked to there for some components
[16:29] <nick_> craag: did you have any problems with them?
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[16:29] <craag> Not at all.
[16:30] <nick_> They also have a couple of breakout boards I could do with: microSD and ethernet
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[16:36] <Randomskk> cool-components are nice. also might be worth checking out proto-pic
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[16:42] <cuddykid> some nice T storms here
[16:43] <cuddykid> heading your way eroomde I think
[16:43] <cuddykid> actually - maybe not - probably North East
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[16:47] <daveake> Gotta love the wordpress blog spambots ... "I love to visit http://www.daveakerman.com every day. what are piles?"
[16:47] <cuddykid> lol
[16:48] <daveake> followed by some links of course
[16:48] <cuddykid> I get a fair amount of spam posts :(
[16:48] <daveake> Install Akismet. It automagically sticks them all in the spam box
[16:49] <cuddykid> thanks :)
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[17:28] <nick_> The vodaphone pay as you go dongle seems like a fairly decent price. If you wanted to send a few MB per day it's just £5 each month
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> Well...
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> '3' 'ipad' SIM is 1G/mo for 7.50
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.three.co.uk/Store/Mobile_Broadband/iPad/iPad_data_plans?typeSearch=%27ipad*%27
[17:33] <daveake> Tesco PAYG is also 1GB/mo for £7.50, but every topup gets you some free calls for a month
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> oh - they've changed it a bit
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> t-mobile - also
[17:34] <daveake> Yeah, a few months ago
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> 6 months for 20 quid
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> 500m/mo
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> it's hidden though - it's an addon - a 'booster'
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> tmobile is also useful for 'out of bundle' stuff
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> As they only charge a maximum of a quid a day
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> On basic PAYG
[17:34] <daveake> Yeah, I use t-mobile for my chases. £1/day if you use a phone SIM rather than their "broadband" SIM (which is £2 for the day)
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> If you use a few bytes a day - you can do a couple of k for 2p, which works out at 60p/mo, or about 8 quid a year
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[17:36] <SpeedEvil> I find it most annoying that you can't have multiple SIMs on one account cheaply
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[17:37] <Upu> evening Rob
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[17:37] <Upu> or not
[17:38] <daveake> SpeedEvil Indeed - would be great. At the mo I have several SIMs - phone, laptop, chase car 3G AP, etc
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> Yup
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[17:39] <SpeedEvil> I rarely want to use more than one device at once - but being able to would be good
[17:39] <Broliv> Evening all
[17:44] <Upu> evening Broliv
[17:47] <Broliv> I'm just in the process of choosing what GPS reciever i'm going to use. I've had a look at the FSA03, however it does not seem to be as easy to come by. Although i've just noticed on the UKhas site that the uBlox6 is the reccomended module to go for at the moment.
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[17:48] <Broliv> In the group's humble optionion is it worth bothering looking for a FAS03
[17:48] <jonsowman> yep, grab a MAX6
[17:48] <fsphil> you probably can't get an fsa03 anymore
[17:49] <jonsowman> one of Upu's breakouts would work nicely
[17:49] <fsphil> not sure if upu has stock, but: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[17:49] <Upu> Loads of stock
[17:49] <Broliv> Thanks guys :)
[17:49] <fsphil> sorted
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[17:54] <jim123> hi
[17:54] <jonsowman> evening jim123
[17:54] <Broliv> Hi jim123
[17:55] <jim123> what is the easiest way to receive a downlink of GPS data, temp pressure from a balloon (am quite new to this) thanks guys!
[17:56] <jim123> so using a 433MHz unit, I've seen massive variation in size complexity act, i like the GSM GPS units but like the idea of the other data as well
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[18:02] <Broliv> I'm new to this myself Jim123, from what I understand you would need to construct your data string (GPS, and other telemetry) to be transmitted from your baloon via the radio transmitter. On the other end you would use you radio reciever and a bit of code to turn it into somthing understandable
[18:03] <jim123> thanks, that seems what most people are doing. but not being a programmer myself the idea of having to programme an Arduino board is a bit daunting!
[18:03] <Broliv> It's pretty fun once you start
[18:03] <Broliv> I've always hated programming but I admit i've started to enjoy playing around with the arduino
[18:03] <daveake> There's some code on the ukhas web site for common stuff such as driving an NTX2, talking to a uBlox GPS
[18:04] <daveake> Arduino is about as simple as it gets
[18:05] <Broliv> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[18:06] <Upu> hi Jim
[18:07] <Upu> the radio seems to be the bit which most people think will be the hardest
[18:07] <Upu> but generally its not too difficult have a read of http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[18:10] <jim123> ok awesome thank you
[18:10] <Upu> and if you want to buy an NTX2 module come speak to me
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[18:11] <Upu> where are you based Broliv ?
[18:12] <Broliv> I am living in Manchester atm Upu
[18:12] <Upu> Oh not far from me then
[18:12] <Broliv> although from Liverpool originally
[18:12] <Upu> I'm near Halifax
[18:12] <Upu> we need more northerners doing this
[18:13] <Broliv> Oh yeah? nice part of the world up that way :)
[18:13] <Broliv> My GF is from Burnley
[18:13] <Upu> Bit too close to Bradford but otherwise ok
[18:13] <Broliv> heh
[18:14] <Broliv> There does seem to be a bit of a bias towards the south I have noticed.
[18:14] <Broliv> brb phone, probably a ppi claim call again
[18:14] <Upu> there is indeed
[18:14] <fsphil> those pesky cambridgefolkshire
[18:14] <Upu> yeah tell them to go forth
[18:15] <Broliv> What a guess... "Hi you may be entitled t.."
[18:15] <Broliv> *hangs up*
[18:15] <jonsowman> hello yes, what's wrong with cambridge
[18:15] <jonsowman> :P
[18:15] <Upu> :)
[18:15] <Broliv> Nothing at all
[18:16] <jonsowman> haha
[18:16] <fsphil> I've never been there, therefore it can't be that good ;)
[18:16] <jonsowman> :D
[18:16] <Broliv> lol
[18:16] <jonsowman> well you're invited
[18:16] <jonsowman> you're welcome to come over whenever you like
[18:16] <jonsowman> bring a HAB
[18:16] <jonsowman> BYOH?
[18:16] <Upu> :)
[18:16] <fsphil> BYOP
[18:16] <Broliv> Aww thanks :)
[18:16] <fsphil> I might do after the conference
[18:16] <jonsowman> cool
[18:17] <fsphil> something disposable
[18:18] <Broliv> that would be cool
[18:18] <Broliv> I'll need to pull my finger out
[18:18] <Upu> coming to the conference ?
[18:18] <Broliv> hopefully
[18:18] <Broliv> i've put my name down
[18:18] <Broliv> I just need to arrange with my sister to stay at her's
[18:18] <Upu> cool
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[18:20] <fsphil> there used to be a nice cheap hotel at piccadilly circus but I think it's closed now
[18:20] <Broliv> cheap and london don't mix well
[18:21] <fsphil> it seems that way
[18:21] <Broliv> I used to do consultancy work in my previous job and had to stay in some complete dives
[18:21] <fsphil> though as ed says, there's good places outside london with good transport into the city
[18:21] <Broliv> purfleet was the worst, it was like faulty towers
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[18:22] <Broliv> Yeah, my sister emigrated to Stamford so i'm going to see if I can stay there.
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[18:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> Evening all!
[18:35] <Broliv> Hello
[18:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> Have been very busy the last two weeks.... No time for programming :-(
[18:40] <fsphil> EEK
[18:40] <fsphil> whhops, caps
[18:41] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha...
[18:41] <fsphil> though no programming.. that is shocking
[18:41] <Elmar_PD3EM> yeah.. way to busy at work and late home
[18:41] <fsphil> know that feeling
[18:42] <Elmar_PD3EM> hope to have some more time soon to finish my payload
[18:42] <Elmar_PD3EM> any news on launches and development?
[18:44] <fsphil> I haven't heard much -- anyone launching this weekend?
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[18:45] <Elmar_PD3EM> there's a 10m payload going to be launched from SP-land if I'm right
[18:45] <fsphil> there may be another eurus launch weekend after next
[18:45] <fsphil> ah yes
[18:46] <fsphil> will have a listen out for that
[18:46] <fsphil> didn't hear anything last time
[18:46] <Elmar_PD3EM> sounds good with another one from jcoxon
[18:46] <Elmar_PD3EM> No, nothing here also on the previous eurus
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[18:58] <Laurenceb_> superpressure
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> not to be confused with turbo pressure, uber pressure, mega pressure or awesomepressure
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[19:00] <nigelvh> Don't forget ludicrouspressure
[19:01] <Elmar_PD3EM> what about low pressure Laurenceb? It's bringing rain here at the moment ;-)
[19:01] <MrScienceMan> and ofc, ludacrispressure
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[19:04] <fsphil-laptop> mighty pressure has to get a mention
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[19:06] <nigelvh> superultraawesomeamazing-pressure
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[19:07] <fsphil-laptop> I'd love to hear that used in a lecture on solar physics
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[19:09] <WillDuckworth> got some weirdness on the tracker; dl-fldigi says it has uploaded some WDHAB but can't see anything - any ideas?
[19:09] <jonsowman> is there a valid and and current flight doc?
[19:09] <fsphil-laptop> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[19:10] <jonsowman> ah
[19:10] <fsphil-laptop> you're passing a float when it's expecting an int
[19:10] <jonsowman> 6.1 != integer
[19:10] <WillDuckworth> that'd be it
[19:11] <WillDuckworth> danielrichman and i had a brief discussion about it yesterday. any chance of a tweak to accept the float?
[19:11] <DanielRichman> WillDuckworth: so that's 6.2 volts?
[19:12] <WillDuckworth> yep - took your advice to work it out properly
[19:12] <WillDuckworth> that ok?
[19:12] <DanielRichman> done
[19:12] <DanielRichman> and it's on the map
[19:13] <WillDuckworth> nice one - would've popped on habhub but xchat keeps crashing on me
[19:13] <WillDuckworth> thanks again :)
[19:14] <DanielRichman> np. What is the "180" (9th field)
[19:14] <DanielRichman> I have it down as "fix_age" but that looks a little odd for fix age
[19:14] <DanielRichman> or is this fake data
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[19:16] <WillDuckworth> yep - that's the fix age in ms using tinygps
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[19:19] <DanielRichman> ok, cool
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[19:43] <WillDuckworth> ping daveake
[19:43] <daveake> pong
[19:43] <WillDuckworth> going for sunday i think here if that's any better for you?
[19:43] <daveake> Cool
[19:43] <daveake> I think we're set on Saturday now
[19:43] <WillDuckworth> good stuff
[19:44] <daveake> BBC even reckons some sun first thing
[19:45] <fsphil-laptop> I love it when not having a plan comes together :)
[19:46] <WillDuckworth> i don't believe it
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[19:47] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
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[19:49] <fsphil-laptop> the sun is out here atm
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[19:52] <WillDuckworth> yep - had the ok from the better half to go for sunday instead 8am ish time - will spam everyone officially at some point
[19:53] <Upu> oo launch
[19:53] <Upu> goodie
[19:54] <Upu> weekend after next and I should have the new antenna up
[19:54] <daveake> Nice - I can compare my 817 with the FCD
[19:54] <Upu> Hye daveake you got Upupost
[19:54] <daveake> No not yet
[19:54] <WillDuckworth> bout time too
[19:54] <Upu> well tomorrow
[19:54] <daveake> yep
[19:55] <Upu> it is actually yes I've had the antenna since dec
[19:55] <WillDuckworth> do you have pink envelopes upu?
[19:55] <WillDuckworth> if not - you should get some
[19:55] <Upu> lol
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[20:00] <daveake> I tarted up the front page of my car pc prog - http://pasteshack.net/images/883665001339012755.png
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[20:00] <daveake> I can do a pink version for you Upu :p
[20:00] <Upu> needs moar drop shadow
[20:01] <Upu> looks good :)
[20:01] <MrScienceMan> needs more anti-aliasing
[20:01] <Upu> can it match the current screen resolution or is it fixed ?
[20:01] <daveake> 2 complaints already :p
[20:02] <Upu> last was a serious Q :)
[20:02] <daveake> It's fixed atm but I can make it match easily enough
[20:02] <MrScienceMan> you can add more gradients and specular reflections to make it look futuristic
[20:02] <MrScienceMan> :)
[20:02] <Upu> my netbook is bigger than yours :)
[20:02] <Upu> well my touch screen is
[20:02] <daveake> car pc not netbook
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> that logo looks well
[20:02] <MrScienceMan> netbooks have around 11" screen
[20:02] <Upu> my touch screen doesn't
[20:03] <MrScienceMan> mine is 11"
[20:03] <daveake> mine is 7
[20:03] <Upu> yeah I like it Dave all you need now is 2 further buttons "Locate nearest chippy" and "Locate nearest boat company"
[20:03] <MrScienceMan> the one core CPU @ 1.6
[20:03] <daveake> I'd need a bigger car to fit a bigger touchscreen in the console
[20:03] <MrScienceMan> bothers me more
[20:03] <MrScienceMan> than the screensize
[20:03] <number10> dont tell everyone your size on irc
[20:04] <MrScienceMan> we are proud of our size
[20:04] <number10> opps sorry - you are talking screens
[20:04] <daveake> Upu good points. It has a google map option already so I'd just need a button to navigate to "chippy near xxx"
[20:04] <Randomskk> Upu: "locate nearest tree surgeon"
[20:04] <Upu> yeah :)
[20:05] <MrScienceMan> speedcall coast guard
[20:05] <daveake> speedcall electricity company
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[20:05] <Randomskk> speedcall air traffic control
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[20:06] <Randomskk> speedcall bail bondsman
[20:06] <number10> :(
[20:07] <number10> I was nervous enough about launching before this convo
[20:07] <Randomskk> hehe it's all fine
[20:07] <Randomskk> bail is so low in the UK we don't actually have bail bondsmen
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[20:08] <number10> cheers Randomskk , I feel a lot better
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[20:08] <daveake> lol
[20:08] <Randomskk> :P
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[20:09] <number10> :)
[20:10] <Upu> yeah if you need a bail bonds man you've f?cked up REALLY badly
[20:11] <daveake> Press "speeddial bail bondsman" ===> "Numeric overflow in HowMuchWillThisFlightCostMe.c"
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[20:17] <Upu> Bring on multiple flights : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/IMG_0624.JPG
[20:18] <number10> you have two now?
[20:18] <Upu> Yep
[20:19] <Upu> The bottom one used to be Tim's
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> they breed like rabbits
[20:19] <number10> greddy b***
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[20:19] <Upu> was too good a price to turn down
[20:20] <LazyLeopard> Careful... ;)
[20:20] <number10> there is a bonus you can track two... but you need to get another decent antenna
[20:20] <Upu> ah well
[20:20] <number10> up
[20:20] <Upu> I'm moving the colinear
[20:20] <Upu> and putting up a Yagi as well
[20:21] <number10> in time for saturday ;)
[20:21] <Upu> no next week
[20:22] <number10> ah well, daveake wont mind if you track my one then
[20:22] <Upu> I can track 2 now when they are up I just dangle the Diamond out of the window
[20:22] <daveake> <cough>
[20:22] <Upu> but they have to be ? 15km
[20:22] <Upu> ? = >
[20:22] <number10> :D
[20:22] <fsphil-laptop> I've two radios but only one antenna
[20:23] <Upu> technically I have 3 note the FCD in the back ground
[20:23] <fsphil-laptop> wonder if I can split it
[20:23] <Upu> bbs
[20:23] <number10> fsphil-laptop: just spend a bit more dosh - the hab community will be greatful
[20:24] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:24] <fsphil-laptop> I'm going to get a rotator
[20:25] <number10> I feel there is a bit of a competition between fsphil-laptop and Upu here
[20:25] <fsphil-laptop> nah
[20:26] <fsphil-laptop> he's out yagi'ed me
[20:26] <number10> :)
[20:27] <fsphil-laptop> though I'll have two
[20:28] <number10> about time we had another sdvd launch, fsphil-laptop, that was fun
[20:29] <number10> excuse my spelling
[20:32] <fsphil-laptop> indeed -- still be a while before I can be in the air again
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[20:44] <eroomde> yoyoyo
[20:52] <fsphil-laptop> eeeevennnnin
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[21:14] <Broliv> Good night everyone :)
[21:15] <Broliv> #exit
[21:15] <Broliv> woops
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[21:26] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/KVKuH.jpg
[21:27] <jonsowman> that quadcat is terrifying
[21:27] <jonsowman> why would you do that
[21:27] <jonsowman> the guy in the background looks confused
[21:29] <nigelvh_> It's "art"
[21:31] <MrScienceMan> oh
[21:32] <MrScienceMan> when are they planning human flight?
[21:32] <daveake> At least it always lands the right way up
[21:34] <MrScienceMan> i didnt know cats had that kind of tech
[21:34] <daveake> Presumably the radio receiver uses a cat's whisker
[21:35] <r2x0t> needs red glowing eye
[21:35] <r2x0t> s
[21:37] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/LqpvU.jpg
[21:37] <eroomde> i needed this when i was litte
[21:38] <MrScienceMan> corners on furniture should have some sort of padding
[21:42] <MrScienceMan> so many lives would be saved
[21:45] <daveake> I should put padding on 1/4 wave w/radial antenna wires when I make them
[21:45] <daveake> Would save a lot of trouble :)
[21:46] <nigelvh_> What? You don't want a flying spinning falling sharp copper bit stabbing device?
[21:47] <daveake> Whenever I escape poking myself in the eye with a radial, one of the other radials takes its place
[21:47] <nigelvh_> Exactly. Why would you want to get rid of that? That's the best part!
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> quadcat is more terrifying when it doesnt look fat
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> also needs mouth open and teeth for added terror
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[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Also - it should be small ducted fan, not quadcopter.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> For the scream.
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> ducted fans built into the body
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[21:53] <Laurenceb_> so its less obvious
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> also a badger
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Catse.
[21:53] Action: Laurenceb_ heads out to look for roadkill to use
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> Birds are more interesting
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> But the wing articulation is a bitch
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> obligatory ^
[21:55] <r2x0t> just like this http://nerve.fugacious.net/drf/archives/FreeCat.jpg
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[21:57] <Laurenceb_> talking of animal cruelty
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> my earlier idea about mouse in 2L bottle would fail in an obvious way
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> mice like to nibble plastic bottles
[22:01] <Upu> well if it was serious I suspect he'll have to find another tracker
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[23:00] <fsphil-laptop> mmm I love the smell of pcbs in the oven in the morning
[23:01] <fsphil-laptop> actually I don't, it stinks
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[23:26] <jschall> Does anyone know the formula to convert indicated to true airspeed?
[23:30] <MrScienceMan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_airspeed#Low-speed_flight
[23:30] <MrScienceMan> ?
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[23:36] <MrScienceMan> TAS = ((IAS*OAT) * (alt/1000)) + IAS
[23:36] <MrScienceMan> http://www.csgnetwork.com/tasinfocalc.html
[23:36] <MrScienceMan> from here
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[00:00] --- Thu Jun 7 2012