highaltitude.log.20120602

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[04:15] <RobotCaleb> hi
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[06:50] <eroomde> morning RobotCaleb
[06:51] <eroomde> 4:15 UTC is not the best time for activity on here :)
[06:54] <Upu> not on a Saturday anyway
[06:55] <eroomde> yes the pre-work-breakfast brigate are not about either
[07:09] <daveake> morning
[07:23] <G0DJA> Morning all
[07:35] <Upu> morning
[07:36] <Upu> no launches this weekend wierd. Everyone sat waving flags ?
[07:38] <daveake> flap flap
[07:38] <G0DJA> No, visiting my Mum today and avoiding the Jubilee for rest of the w/e
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[07:43] <SamSilver> 19 500 runners in my town for worlds bigest ultra marathon http://www.comrades.com/
[07:43] <daveake> they must be hungry
[07:44] <daveake> I fancy an ultra Bounty
[07:45] <Upu> err
[07:46] <daveake> Not quite what I had in mind ...
[07:47] <G0DJA> The other google results include kitchen roll
[07:48] <Upu> haha
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[08:31] <fsphil> woo, weekend
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[08:31] <daveake> but no flights boo hoo :(#
[08:31] <daveake> Like busses I guess
[08:45] <number10> are you still involved with eurus fsphil ?
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[08:57] <fsphil> I think so number10 :) I've not had much time to help with it
[09:00] <number10> Ok, I know james said was not going to launch this weekend - as not quite finished
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[09:00] <number10> just wondered how it was going
[09:00] <fsphil> yea, I think the plan is to launch next weekend
[09:01] <fsphil> gives more time to test everything,
[09:02] <number10> will be like busses again then :)
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[09:42] <gonzo_> hhe, actually the bus myth is true. And thgere are good reasons
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[10:17] <Bob_G8NSV> morning all!
[10:17] <jonsowman> morning
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[10:18] <nick_> Are there any launches going on this weekend?
[10:18] <Bob_G8NSV> just started raining here :(
[10:18] <nick_> Where the weekend may contain Monday and/or Tuesday
[10:19] <jonsowman> we've got one waiting
[10:19] <jonsowman> but depends on weather
[10:19] <jonsowman> predictions for tomorrow are great
[10:19] <jonsowman> but it's meant to be raining all day
[10:19] <nick_> jonsowman: what are you launching?
[10:19] <Bob_G8NSV> never mind indoor stuff like soldering together my payload! I have a nice jiffy bag full of bits ready and waiting!!
[10:19] <jonsowman> it's the southampton physoc outreach project
[10:19] <nick_> The queen needs rain...
[10:19] <Bob_G8NSV> a launch!!
[10:20] <jonsowman> it's looking like it'll have to be postponed though
[10:20] <Bob_G8NSV> shame
[10:21] <Bob_G8NSV> I have loads of indoor stuff to do so can be productive at least
[10:23] <Bob_G8NSV> one job is to build a new bench in the back room for my ham gear, computer and also workbench space and a shelf for my test gear!!!
[10:23] <fsphil> would've been a good weekend to launch here, if I'd been smart enough 28 days ago.
[10:24] <Bob_G8NSV> might put off the payload build till I have done that and it can then christen the new workbench!!
[10:29] <nick_> what is your payload Bob_G8NSV ?
[10:29] <fsphil> random: would take 30 years to download 4Gb over a 50 baud 8n2 rtty link
[10:30] <Bob_G8NSV> arduino/rfm22b with NMEA gps module. For a Solar pico launch
[10:31] <jonsowman> fsphil: lol
[10:31] <fsphil> on my wifi it takes 30 minutes :)
[10:32] <Bob_G8NSV> makes you think about not taking bradband downloads for granted!!
[10:34] <Bob_G8NSV> 50 baud rtty was about the only ham "digital" mode when I first got licenced. and very nearly everyone but a few used mechanical kit like 7B's and other mechanical telytypes
[10:34] <fsphil> the mechanical printers are amazing
[10:34] <fsphil> doing this sort of thing without a computer just seems mad now
[10:34] <Bob_G8NSV> then the Commodore PET came along!!
[10:35] <fsphil> oh I seen a PET once
[10:35] <fsphil> weird devices
[10:35] <fsphil> that's the one with the built in monitor?
[10:35] <Bob_G8NSV> that was the dogs bits for ham stuff back then, RTTY without the clackety clack clackety clack!!
[10:36] <Bob_G8NSV> yes metal case built in green crt and 32K ram!!
[10:36] <Bob_G8NSV> disk drives if you had the money 8" floppys!!
[10:38] <Bob_G8NSV> they were probably the first "affordable" PC you could do ham data with
[10:38] <fsphil> how did you connect them to the radio?
[10:39] <Bob_G8NSV> you had to build a terminal unit with the tone generators and pll decoder for rx, and connect them to the I/O. No souncard interface in those days!
[10:40] <Bob_G8NSV> all it did was encode and decode the baudot. Some better software did stored "brag files" and stuff like that
[10:41] <Bob_G8NSV> then the clever guys got in to Amtor and stuff with error correction and with better PC's data as we know it was born!!
[10:42] <Bob_G8NSV> packet and stuff like that
[10:43] <fsphil> yea, tricky doing that on 32k
[10:43] <Bob_G8NSV> The TNC's were really expensive,it still amazes me that you can now do so much with a soundcard and a simple audio interface
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[10:44] <Bob_G8NSV> all the complex stuff was in the TNC back then the real data stuff. The PC tended just to talk to the TNC and do the display and keyboard stuff
[10:45] <fsphil> ah, bit of a dumb terminal
[10:46] <Bob_G8NSV> more or less. the better TNC's had message stores in them and would store messages you had recieved whilst you were out
[10:46] <fsphil> the c64 would have been pretty bad at all that, it doesn't seem to have a proper uart
[10:47] <Bob_G8NSV> I think stuff like the 64 would just do RTTY with a hardware T/U
[10:49] <Bob_G8NSV> tnc's did allthe hard work of packet and HF AMTOR
[10:50] <Bob_G8NSV> I dont know how many people still use hardware TNC's you still see them sell on Ebay. I would guess most use software TNC's now. so much good free software out there
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[10:52] <Bob_G8NSV> playing with something like JT65 on a soundcard is just amazing, you cant even see anything on the waterfall yet alone hear any sort of tone and up pops a QSO!
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[10:55] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
[10:55] <fsphil> I've not had much luck with JT65
[10:55] <fsphil> but I think it's just me not understanding the software
[10:56] <Bob_G8NSV> I have had a few qso's with it, not used it for a while tho
[10:58] <Bob_G8NSV> it is a bit limiting, pre formed messages and stuff, tho you can do free text
[10:58] <Bob_G8NSV> it just amazes me when it decodes something you cant see or hear!!
[10:59] <fsphil> I've had the olivia mode do that
[10:59] <Bob_G8NSV> thats a good one as well, not done much with that one
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[11:00] <Bob_G8NSV> all the "slow warbly" modes seem good at low signals
[11:00] <fsphil> they sound quite musical
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[11:00] <Bob_G8NSV> would be great for telemetry!
[11:01] <Bob_G8NSV> just the ssb tx bit that limits us
[11:01] <Bob_G8NSV> shame' they are allready in fldigi
[11:02] <fsphil> fsk modes like olivia can be done with an ntx2
[11:02] <fsphil> the problem is the crystal changing with temperature
[11:03] <Bob_G8NSV> the rest of the world seems to use packet, as usual our licence conditions wont let us do stuff hams the world over can
[11:04] <fsphil> packet is not ver efficient
[11:04] <fsphil> +y
[11:04] <Bob_G8NSV> true but a lot of the stateside flights all seem to use it
[11:05] <Bob_G8NSV> its not the same as hearing a signal direct!!
[11:05] <fsphil> you can tell a lot from just the sound of the signal
[11:06] <fsphil> we can also send a great deal more data via rtty than we could with packet
[11:06] <Bob_G8NSV> yes I have started to learn that, you can usually tell as soon as the balloon bursts
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[11:07] <fsphil> in a way I think us not being able to use packet has helped
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[11:09] <fsphil> things like habitat would probably not exist
[11:09] <Bob_G8NSV> I like the direct signal stuff really, I played with packet years ago then got bored with it. Too much like the internet but slower and not as good at sending messages and data! I like the direct point to point contacts. Thats real ham radio!!
[11:10] <fsphil> it's also reassuring when you always hear the signal, instead of waiting for a packet every 2 minutes or so
[11:10] <Bob_G8NSV> especially when you use things you have made yourself, even if its only an antenna or a Linear
[11:11] <fsphil> indeed
[11:11] <fsphil> some of the hardware people are making here is amazing
[11:12] <Bob_G8NSV> there are some good SDR kits around, but I still love the "feel" of a conventional old fashioned radio
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[11:12] <fsphil> I'd still like more power though :)
[11:13] <fsphil> 25mw would help with doing faster rates than 300 baud
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[11:13] <jonsowman> that just means we have to do cleverer things for higher data rates
[11:14] <jonsowman> :)
[11:14] <Bob_G8NSV> once I have done my workbench it might encourage me to finish my linear project. I bought an old non working one on Ebay and have just about all the bits I need to re-build it. Just need a nice solid bench to work on it!!!
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[11:16] <Bob_G8NSV> at least with the bad weather the mrs wont want to be gardening like all last week!!
[11:16] <fsphil> hah
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[11:16] Nick change: markdownunder_ -> markdownunder
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[11:17] <fsphil> I've to clear out my other shed at some point. it's full of spiders :/
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[11:19] <Bob_G8NSV> Im lucky Simone doesent mind me having my electronics workshop in the back room. The garage outside has my mechanical workshop, lathe and mill and stuff, its cold in the winter and a bit damp so no good for electronics!!
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> No good for mechanicals eitehr
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> condensation is bad
[11:20] <fsphil> both my sheds have that problem
[11:20] <fsphil> not sure how to deal with it
[11:21] <Bob_G8NSV> thats true, its not that bad though, I put old motorcycle covers over them when not in use There are a couple of leaks in the roof I need to fix then it will be way better
[11:21] <Bob_G8NSV> dont think there is any way other than heating if there are no actual leaks
[11:22] <Bob_G8NSV> To be honest the garage isnt that bad, I just wouldnt want to sit at a workbench or on the radio out there!!
[11:23] <fsphil> there are gaps around the door that I don't think are helping
[11:23] <Bob_G8NSV> far better indoors with central heating and a kettle in the kitchen
[11:24] <Bob_G8NSV> loads of gaps round the eaves in my garage, corrogated asbestos roof, plus gaps round windows, loads of draughts
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[11:25] <Bob_G8NSV> I thought about building a proper lined and sealed section in it but as long as I can have my electronics workbench indoors dont see the point
[11:26] <Bob_G8NSV> fsphil sealing the gaps will definately help
[11:27] <Bob_G8NSV> stopping damp outside air is the way
[11:27] <fsphil> others say ventelation is needed, which seems wrong
[11:28] <Bob_G8NSV> well I'm off to go and do a bit, got some rubbish from the garden to go to the tip, plus a huge old computer that works no more!
[11:29] <Bob_G8NSV> I think you need ventilation just not damp air, not quitesure how you seperate the 2!!
[11:30] <Bob_G8NSV> see you all later
[11:30] <fsphil> have fun!
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[12:35] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> 'material world' this wednesday had a bit on Helium price which I'm listening to now.
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[12:39] <daveake> That's a situation that's only going to get worse
[12:43] <jonsowman> haha i knew compiz's "draw fire" would be useful
[12:43] <jonsowman> now I can set fire to MPLAB
[12:43] <jonsowman> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/62498867/mplabfire.png
[12:43] <daveake> Best thing for it :D
[12:44] <daveake> Well, explosives would improve the experience
[12:44] <jonsowman> haha true
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[12:47] <jonsowman> lol pointers
[12:48] <jonsowman> *( (unsigned int *)(&(buf[3])) ) = r;
[12:49] <daveake> That's C for you ... a language and compiler that have complete trust that you know what you're doing, whilst providing every tool you need to shoot yourself in the foot
[12:49] <jonsowman> haha
[12:49] <jonsowman> you're not wrong
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[12:50] <zyp> why (&(buf[3])) when (buf + 3) would be equivalent?
[12:51] <jonsowman> zyp: yeah i know, this is provided code
[12:51] <jonsowman> it's a mess
[12:51] <zyp> daveake, you can write equally messy code in any language
[12:52] <zyp> I don't see how C makes a difference here
[12:55] <jonsowman> well languages like python don't let you do stuff like that
[12:55] <jonsowman> well not unless you ask it to
[12:55] <daveake> Yes you can write a mess in any language if you try, but it can take effort. C makes it easy.
[12:56] <jonsowman> in python everything is a reference
[12:56] <daveake> Of all the code I've read, pretty much all of the messiest has been in C
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[13:44] <fsphil> It's amazing how long a download can remain at "2 minutes 40 second remaining"
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> Time dilation.
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[13:47] <Laurenceb_> is it possible to scp from a dropbox folder on ubuntu?
[13:48] <jonsowman> i don't see why not
[13:48] <jonsowman> yep, works fine
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[13:57] <futurity> Hi anyone at big ears today? Wondering when would be the best time to go?
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[14:14] <Elwell> so - looks like 3rd attempt to launch in .ch also failed
[14:14] <Elwell> http://fpaste.org/rd5p/
[14:15] <Elwell> not convinced the blowtorch is necessary
[14:16] <daveake> blowtorch? wtf?
[14:17] <daveake> More like not enough gas, or they've got a gas/air mix
[14:18] <daveake> What size balloon do you know?
[14:18] <Elwell> indeed isn't it going to get a bit cold once its high anyway
[14:18] <Elwell> no idea
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> Filling balloons intentionally with a fuel gas/air mixture seems like an attempted Darwin.
[14:19] <r2x0t> I hope they don't try that blowtorch idea with Hydrogen
[14:19] <Elwell> physicists. they should know be.... yep you're right
[14:19] <daveake> :D
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[14:43] <Upu> err I think someone needs to get them online here so we can have a chat
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[15:12] Action: daveake wonders how many HAB points for *landing* at Elsworth :p http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=9533a1f95c55943a2df72e07be67bd87a70e44b0
[15:13] <jonsowman> i'll go pick it up and post it back
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[15:13] <daveake> :)
[15:13] <r2x0t> xaben will launch any time soon?
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[15:14] <daveake> Poss next week I think
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[15:31] <daveake> Any FT817 experts in the house? If I want to have dl-fldigi control the frequency so it stays tuned in without me being present, do I just need a USB cable? There seem to be some called "interface cable" and some "program cable" but I don't know if there's a difference.
[15:31] <jonsowman> you need a cat cable
[15:32] <jonsowman> connects to the ACC jack on the rear panel
[15:32] <daveake> Cheers
[15:32] <jonsowman> there are cheap ones on ebay with the PL2303
[15:32] <jonsowman> Upu had one he kindly sent me
[15:32] <jonsowman> works very nicely
[15:33] <daveake> Yeah, I've been looking there. Reason I asked was that one vendor apparently has 2 different options so I wondered if I had to be careful to get the right one
[15:33] <jonsowman> http://www.g4zlp.co.uk/unified/YaesuCAT.shtml
[15:33] <jonsowman> seond thing on that page is an alternative
[15:33] <daveake> tvm
[15:33] <jonsowman> np :)
[15:35] <daveake> Ah, so that second one could be used for other receivers ... don't think I'll bother though - the specific USB cables are cheap
[15:35] <jonsowman> yeah
[15:35] <jonsowman> the only thing is the PL2303 is often a total pain
[15:35] <jonsowman> linux has a kernel driver so it's easy
[15:35] <daveake> I was about to mention that :)
[15:36] <daveake> FTDI is better IME
[15:36] <jonsowman> it certainly is
[15:36] <jonsowman> get an FTDI one if you can
[15:36] <daveake> Will do
[15:36] <daveake> I once used a USB-serial adapter by "Huge Pine". Well you could replace that second word with a very similar word
[15:36] <jonsowman> haha
[15:37] <daveake> USB - serial is the simplest USB thing you could possibly have, yet manufacturers still manage to screw it up
[15:38] <jonsowman> the 2303 is bad
[15:38] <jonsowman> the FTDI is a lot better but that's a lot down to drivers
[15:39] <jonsowman> the 2303 works perfectly in linux, no drivers etc required
[15:42] <daveake> Ordered that FTDI one :)
[15:42] <jonsowman> the CT62?
[15:42] <daveake> Cheaper than any of the UK ebay ones, and the cheapest of those didn't mention FTDI
[15:42] <daveake> yup
[15:42] <jonsowman> yeah they're known to be very good
[15:43] <jonsowman> and you'll save the pain of getting the pl2303 working
[15:44] <daveake> I found the FT817 easy to use - didn't need to read the manual to get started. Except that if I had I'd have known you have to tell it to charge up :p
[15:44] <jonsowman> haha yes that caught me out too
[15:44] <daveake> That and the battery compartment are the only weak points I've found
[15:44] <jonsowman> yeah
[15:44] <jonsowman> apart from that it's an excellent radio
[15:45] <daveake> PITA to quickly swap to AAs
[15:45] <jonsowman> very pleased with mine
[15:45] <daveake> yep
[15:45] <Upu> as long as you know where to switch between front and rear antenna you should be good
[15:45] <jonsowman> oh yeah
[15:45] <jonsowman> that too
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[16:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/updates
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> I love that red-hot engine bell.
[16:11] <jonsowman> some great pics
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> There was a neat view from the arm of the grapple fixture - from 20cm away
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> which isn't there - but a good collection
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/205723666590334976/photo/1 - looking forward to.
[16:17] <x-f> how soon is soon?
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Good question.
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[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Mmmm. Barbecue...
[16:23] <fsphil> daveake: took me about 30 minutes to get the battery compartment opened
[16:26] <fsphil> well this is odd. I'm downloading a torrent, it's at 99.9%, 1 second remaining. it's been that way for about 30 minutes, and the whole time it's been downloading at 1.5MB/s
[16:29] <daveake> fsphil - sounds about right!
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[16:30] <SpeedEvil> Sounds like you have a bad checksum somewhere
[16:30] <fsphil> yea, just checked the stats and it's all corrupt
[16:30] <Laurenceb_> now youll never get your pronz
[16:31] <fsphil> drat
[16:33] Action: Laurenceb_ is working on CE documentation
[16:33] <Laurenceb_> this sucks big time
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> the only joy is laughing at the fail
[16:34] <fsphil> that sounds horrible
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> the ISO "risk pyramid" is particularly bad
[16:35] <Laurenceb_> also they spend 5 pages explaining what a risk is
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> im guessing they followed these standards at Fukushima
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> "we use 4 generators in a line, therefore we raise failure risk to power 4"
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> as you can see we have 1 failure predicted every 100trillion years of operation
[16:37] <jdtanner> Laurenceb_: &need a hand? I used to test for CE compliance as a job :)
[16:37] <Laurenceb_> funtimes
[16:37] <jdtanner> mates rates of course :)
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[16:38] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be progressing atm
[16:38] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[16:38] <Laurenceb_> my main issue is i dont understand how to do a risk assessment
[16:38] <jdtanner> no probs :)
[16:38] <jdtanner> haha&might be a minor issue that
[16:38] <jdtanner> :)
[16:38] <Laurenceb_> but im not sure thats a standard part of CE
[16:39] <jdtanner> It really depends on what you are testing
[16:39] <Laurenceb_> this is more complex as its covered by medical devices directive and insurance
[16:39] <jdtanner> Euck...
[16:40] <Laurenceb_> are there guidelines for typical risks to be assessed for different types of device?
[16:40] <jdtanner> Do you have a copy of the directive?
[16:40] <jdtanner> And do you have access to a standards database?
[16:41] <Laurenceb_> yes....
[16:41] <Laurenceb_> but not enough time to read it all
[16:41] <jdtanner> ah&well, in that case I'd do a search to see if your product has aspecific set of guidance over and above the medical devices directive
[16:42] <Laurenceb_> i see
[16:42] <Laurenceb_> ill probably get on with writing the operators manual and doing to lables, as thats easier
[16:42] <jdtanner> For example, if you were dealing with a milling machine, then you'd need to check to see if there were a set of directive sspecific to milling machines
[16:43] <Laurenceb_> i see
[16:43] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[16:43] <jdtanner> Otherwise, there is a set of directives for general machines/control systems/etc
[16:43] <jdtanner> and then finally there is the general products safety directive
[16:44] <jdtanner> Massive ballache&if you can afford it&get somebody else to do it :)
[16:44] <Laurenceb_> this is a commercial project
[16:44] <Laurenceb_> but everyone familiar with this stuff has left the company
[16:44] <jdtanner> you could go to a testing lab
[16:44] <jdtanner> that is what we used to do all the time
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> yes we have to
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> but ive got landed with the majority of the paperwork :-/
[16:48] <jdtanner> typical ;(
[16:49] <Elwell> http://www.flickr.com/photos/78459610@N06/7320019442/in/set-72157630010649718 <-- lack of lift
[16:49] <Elwell> Upu: yep, have pointed them here and to the mailing list ...
[16:52] <Elwell> tbh the bottles do look a little small compared to what I've seen in other peoples pics
[16:56] <daveake> Not sure why you'd need a trolley for teeny weeny cylinders like those
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[17:35] <RobotCaleb> hi
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[17:35] <jonsowman> hi
[17:35] <RobotCaleb> How does one get a balloon tracked on habhub?
[17:36] <jonsowman> you will need to generate a flight document and have it added to the tracker
[17:36] <jonsowman> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload
[17:38] <RobotCaleb> ugh
[17:38] <RobotCaleb> anyway to navigate that page like a real webpage?
[17:38] <RobotCaleb> it keeps scrolling out of view
[17:38] <jonsowman> tab through it
[17:38] <jonsowman> what browser are you using?
[17:38] <RobotCaleb> yeah, it's broken
[17:38] <RobotCaleb> latest chrome
[17:39] <jonsowman> it's fine here
[17:39] <jonsowman> weird
[17:39] <RobotCaleb> So, this doesn't make tracking happen. In addition to this, what is required? Is it APRS tracking?
[17:39] <jonsowman> no, we tend to use 10mW NBFM transmitters with 50 or 300 baud RTTY
[17:40] <jonsowman> the strings are in this format
[17:40] <jonsowman> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[17:40] <RobotCaleb> Why not leverage the larger APRS network for tracking purposes?
[17:40] <jonsowman> where are you based?
[17:40] <RobotCaleb> TX, USA
[17:40] <jonsowman> this channel is mostly UK based, where amateur radios may not be used airborne
[17:40] <RobotCaleb> oh
[17:41] <RobotCaleb> I saw an Australian one that uses their own trackers, too. Seems odd to me when APRS is much larger and you don't have to have people volunteer to listen. But, if you're not allowed...
[17:42] <jonsowman> yes it's not an option for us in the UK
[17:42] <WillDuckworth> yeah - right pain in the proverbial
[17:42] <jonsowman> APRS is certainly the most popular tracking option in the UK and Aus
[17:42] <RobotCaleb> Is the predictor useful outside of UK?
[17:43] <jonsowman> yes
[17:43] <jonsowman> it works worldwise
[17:43] <jonsowman> *wide
[17:43] <RobotCaleb> word
[17:43] <jonsowman> uses NOAA data
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[17:43] <RobotCaleb> Figured, but I thought I'd ask given the tracker. :)
[17:52] <fsphil> aprs coverage in the uk is spotty at best too
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[18:08] <NickB1> Having trouble with the NTX2 on the new board
[18:09] <NickB1> I'm letting it send the alfabet
[18:09] <daveake> It's having trouble with "p" and "h"?
[18:10] <jonsowman> haha
[18:10] <NickB1> when decoding it is always ABCDEFGfv#...
[18:10] <NickB1> always the same
[18:11] <daveake> Correct parity etc between firmware and dl-fldigi?
[18:11] <daveake> Timing with delays or timer interrupt?
[18:12] <NickB1> settings are the same
[18:12] <NickB1> timing with delays
[18:12] <NickB1> 50 baud
[18:12] <NickB1> on ATMEGA168
[18:13] <daveake> Always fails from "H" onwards? Anything else happening at that time?
[18:13] <NickB1> no normally not
[18:13] <daveake> That's 8 characters in which is approx 2 seconds after the start
[18:13] <NickB1> interrupts are disabled during rtty
[18:13] <daveake> OK where you see where I was headed there :)
[18:14] <daveake> well
[18:14] <NickB1> oh
[18:14] <NickB1> solved it :D
[18:14] <daveake> and...?
[18:14] <NickB1> apparently it was running on internal osc :)
[18:14] <NickB1> set it to external now
[18:14] <daveake> :)
[18:14] <NickB1> always the fuses :D
[18:15] <daveake> I really like having my cheap (£100) USB logic analyser for checking timings on stuff like this
[18:15] <jonsowman> which do you have daveake?
[18:16] <daveake> salae logic 8 channel
[18:16] <jonsowman> yeah me too
[18:16] <jonsowman> they're so good
[18:16] <jonsowman> :D
[18:16] <daveake> Yep, luvvit
[18:16] <daveake> Use it more than the 'scope
[18:16] <NickB1> ok
[18:16] <jonsowman> i've been building a logic analyser for a uni project
[18:17] <NickB1> thanks for the help dave
[18:17] <daveake> np
[18:17] <jonsowman> :D
[18:17] <daveake> :D
[18:17] <Upu> XD
[18:17] <daveake> Hello LL
[18:17] <daveake> oh...
[18:17] <daveake> :)
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[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi there
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> my router may fail so don't wonder if I go on and off
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, I got my canon A49ß
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> *A490
[18:36] <daveake> cool
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> now get CHDK?
[18:38] <fsphil> you'll love chdk
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> sounds cool
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> also got my order of the three novels to the Back to the Future Movies
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> and yesterday I went with the new female team member to the supermarket and we talked around and stuff
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> next week we want to have lunch together and maybe spend some more time
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> who was the man again who suggested that I need a girlfriend?
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh I think
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[18:45] <nick_> Lunar_Lander: I spoke to someone about the Reading group's geiger detectors yesterday
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> did you find out if it was Harrison?
[18:45] <nick_> It was
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> so it is one of the units to be coupled to a Vaisala sonde
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[18:47] Nick change: phirsch_ -> phirsch
[18:48] <daveake> [20:14] <daveake> Lunar do you have a girlfriend? I think you should get one :p
[18:48] <daveake> 28th March that was :)
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> this could be it
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> was that in one of my back to the future excitement times?
[18:52] <daveake> yup
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> as I said
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> also got my order of the three novels to the Back to the Future Movies
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> I read the first one already this afternoon, all 248 pages
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> by the way
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> they said on the radio that The Queen will have her diamond jubilee and then they played a piece of music that I heard on BFBS before and I don't know how it is called
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> something like a slow march
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> sounded really ceremonial
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> I cant imitate it in writing
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> but maybe someone knows what I mean?
[18:57] <fsphil> possibly the national anthem
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> is that god save the queen?
[18:58] <fsphil> yea
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yay it is it :)
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[19:03] <Bob_G8NSV> evenin all
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[19:04] <fsphil> hi Bob_G8NSV
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> btw I'll try the Arduino-GPS code later
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> didn't have the time yesterday unfortunately
[19:04] <Bob_G8NSV> disaster my code is too big to fit on my arduino pro mini!
[19:05] <fsphil> time for some spring cleaning!
[19:05] <Bob_G8NSV> looks like I will have to prune some of the libraries i use
[19:05] <Bob_G8NSV> will check Im using the right rfm22 one first
[19:06] <Bob_G8NSV> there was a cut down one of those
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> (protip from someone who never flew a HAB before: use Arduino Pro Mega!)
[19:07] <daveake> Needless expense and weight, probably
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> no!
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> that argument is not a good one as the Mega has a excellent amount of I/O ports
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:07] <Bob_G8NSV> looks like I have 17010 of code and only 16k on the duino
[19:08] <Bob_G8NSV> that may be doable if I prune the libraries??
[19:08] <fsphil> or reduce your strings
[19:08] <daveake> The "probably" is because for almost all trackers, the 368 is enough. It's been enough for all mine
[19:08] <Bob_G8NSV> possible, dont really need the custom message one
[19:09] <Bob_G8NSV> I prototyped on a 368
[19:09] <Bob_G8NSV> let me go see what i can get rid of
[19:23] <Bob_G8NSV> MMM no quick fix. Odd I know I had it compiling less than 16k on the 328 so was not worried about it running on the 168
[19:23] <fsphil> are you using any floating point maths?
[19:23] <fsphil> that can add quite a bt
[19:23] <fsphil> bit*
[19:23] <Bob_G8NSV> will look, I think I have a float in there
[19:24] <Bob_G8NSV> yep float on lat long would that be it?
[19:25] <fsphil> hmm.. if it was always there then maybe not
[19:25] <Bob_G8NSV> no it may not have been
[19:25] <fsphil> how are you converting it to string?
[19:25] <Bob_G8NSV> ill put my code on pastebin
[19:32] <Bob_G8NSV> http://pastebin.com/yAmH9FQ8
[19:36] <Bob_G8NSV> may have to get a pro mini with a 328!
[19:36] <fsphil> do you need relaymessage?
[19:36] <Bob_G8NSV> no I took that out in a test but it still was not small enough
[19:36] <fsphil> rssiArray doesn't seem to be used
[19:39] <Bob_G8NSV> took that out as well in the test but still compiled over. got it down to 16958
[19:40] <Bob_G8NSV> so close!
[19:40] <fsphil> how much left?
[19:40] <Bob_G8NSV> cant see anything else to take out tho
[19:41] <jonsowman> is that code compiling to >16kb?
[19:41] <Bob_G8NSV> the 168 has 16k
[19:41] <jonsowman> yes
[19:41] <fsphil> it must be one of the libraries
[19:41] <Bob_G8NSV> I think so
[19:43] <Bob_G8NSV> would be a right pain to work out which bits were not needed and take them out, never tried that before
[19:43] <Bob_G8NSV> I have read about people cutting them dowen for this reason
[19:44] <Bob_G8NSV> never tried it myself though
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[19:48] <Bob_G8NSV> This will cure my problems!! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Enhancement-V2-Pro-Mini-3-3V-5V-adjustable-8MHz-MEGA328P-Arduino-Compatible-/221031162267?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33767be19b
[19:49] <Bob_G8NSV> its meant to run off 3.3 as well better order one now!
[19:50] <Bob_G8NSV> would still like to get that code under 16k for the one i have though
[19:51] <Bob_G8NSV> just for the challenge
[19:51] <jonsowman> it'd be worth at least finding out which lib is causing the issue
[19:52] <jonsowman> just make a blank sketch and include all the libraries
[19:52] <jonsowman> and then comment out and check size
[19:52] <jonsowman> in turn
[19:52] <Bob_G8NSV> will try that now jon
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[20:07] <Bob_G8NSV> looks like software serial uses the most2462 rf 22 1250
[20:08] <jonsowman> that doesn't add up to >16k though
[20:08] <jonsowman> :\
[20:08] <Bob_G8NSV> nowhere near will play some more
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[20:11] <Bob_G8NSV> fiddly as you seem to have to use the library before it compiles with it just having them declared does not increase the size?
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander_> damn
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander_> internet still seems to fail
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[20:18] <Bob_G8NSV> I think when I was playing around I was using rfm22 which is a far smaller library than rf22. but I could not get my code to work using that so used rf22
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander_> hello RocketBoy
[20:19] <Bob_G8NSV> Think the bigger processor is the way to go, its also meant to work on 3.3v
[20:19] <jonsowman> the 328 is in spec at 8MHz @ 3V3
[20:20] <jonsowman> i've run several at 16Mhz at 3V3, not come across any that don't work. but that is technically out of spec
[20:20] <Bob_G8NSV> yep tahts the one
[20:20] <jonsowman> *MH\
[20:20] <jonsowman> urgh, MHz
[20:20] <r2x0t> this ebay one is actually quite nice
[20:21] <r2x0t> usually you only find 16MHz ones with 5V/3V switch
[20:21] <Bob_G8NSV> same price as the one im having the bovver with, but much better!
[20:22] <Bob_G8NSV> will order one of those I think and re-deploy the other one for some other project!
[20:22] <jdtanner> I ordered my pro mini from those guys&don't expect it to arrive for at least a month if you are in the UK
[20:23] <r2x0t> that sucks
[20:23] <Bob_G8NSV> tat way I can add more code for other functions if needed rather than mess around removing stuff just so it might run
[20:23] <Bob_G8NSV> oh great
[20:24] <jdtanner> On the other hand, they were really good at answering emails&and it was well packed&just took flipping ages
[20:24] <jdtanner> Swiss Post I think
[20:25] <Bob_G8NSV> cant argue at the price, looks a good spec
[20:25] <jdtanner> Exactly&my pro mini was free shipping&so no arguments from me :D
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander_> hey jdtanner !
[20:26] <jdtanner> Good evening
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander_> how are you?
[20:26] <jdtanner> Enjoying Lord of the Rings
[20:26] <jdtanner> You?
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
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[20:26] <Lunar_Lander_> I am listening to "God Save The Queen"
[20:26] <fsphil> hah, watching that too
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
[20:26] <jonsowman> urgh, can't stand it
[20:26] <jdtanner> LoTR?
[20:26] <jonsowman> yeah
[20:26] <jonsowman> books were great
[20:27] <jonsowman> films were a total letdown imo
[20:27] <daveake> LL you've got some strange tastes!
[20:27] <jonsowman> i realise i'm probably the only person in the world with that opinion
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander_> jdtanner, and I got the novels to the Back To The Future movies!
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander_> xD yea daveake
[20:27] <jdtanner> I love everything Tolkien :) Back to the Future novels?
[20:27] <daveake> jonsowman Me too. Loved The Hobbit as a kid.
[20:28] <jdtanner> Expanded scripts surely ;)
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> I don't think Tolkien wrote any BTTF novels.
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander_> XD yeah somhow
[20:28] <jdtanner> haha
[20:28] <jdtanner> :)
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander_> there is one moment
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander_> like when in the movie, Doc gets shot and Marty jumps to the DeLorean and then flees the Libyans
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander_> in the book he jumps in and tries to find out how to start the engine
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander_> and loses seconds unless he realizes there is a normal ignition key
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:29] <jdtanner> &well I guess it adds much needed tension ;)
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander_> xD yeah
[20:30] <jdtanner> We bought a book to guide us around the movie scenes for LoTR in NZ&some of them were so remote&amazing :)
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander_> I actually read the first one this afternoon
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander_> 248 pages
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander_> oh and like at the dance, some guys smoke in the toilet and when George comes in, they lock him in a toilet stall
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander_> which is also not shown in the movie
[20:32] Action: SpeedEvil is rereading http://www.amazon.co.uk/Storm-Front-Dresden-Files-Book/dp/0356500276/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338669145&sr=1-1
[20:35] <Bob_G8NSV> well thats enough for today! I shall go and commiserate myself with a drink
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander_> oh ok
[20:36] <Bob_G8NSV> I still have plenty of other stuff I can do whilst i wait for the new duino to come
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander_> I want to say that Upu's GPS is awesome!
[20:37] <Bob_G8NSV> I have some steppers with superb gearboxes that would make an az/el mount for a leightweight antena
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[20:38] <Bob_G8NSV> planning on buiding a helix for tracking
[20:40] <Bob_G8NSV> also got some more work to do on jigs for making 434MHz Qudrifilar Helicoidals, so they can be easily reproduced semin production like
[20:40] <Bob_G8NSV> semi
[20:41] <Bob_G8NSV> will let someone have one for a trial flight
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[20:42] <Bob_G8NSV> well off to watch the telly with the mrs see you all tom
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[20:47] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander_> hello jcoxon
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander_> how are you?
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[20:49] <jdtanner> I've actually launched something today!
[20:49] <jdtanner> Just not a balloon
[20:49] <jcoxon> jdtanner, hooray!
[20:49] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander_, good thanks
[20:49] <jdtanner> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=388433244536023&l=835acd19a8 ;)
[20:49] <jdtanner> Couldn't find anywhere to stick the tracker
[20:50] <jonsowman> you should be ashamed of that caption
[20:50] <jdtanner> I did have to wash vigouously after writing it ;)
[20:50] <jonsowman> lol
[20:51] <fsphil> that's a heck of a beard (guy in background)
[20:51] <daveake> Captain Birdseye
[20:51] <jdtanner> I think Captain Birdseye took a left when he should have gone right
[20:51] <jdtanner> lol
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[20:52] <jdtanner> This is the type of thing that up country bumpkins get up to when when can't launch our balloons ;)
[20:52] <daveake> or Grandad Trotter
[20:53] <jdtanner> "In da war..."
[20:53] <daveake> Cheese down a hill next?
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander_> XD that reminds me
[20:53] <jdtanner> Cheese is a luxury up here ;)
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander_> the NY Times had an article on political disagreement in Wisconsin
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander_> and guess what they used as an article title image
[20:54] <jdtanner> chalk and cheese?
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> XD a cheese on fire
[20:54] <jdtanner> of course&that was next on my list&wtf
[20:57] <jdtanner> crazy americans ;)
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> jdtanner, you also got the GPS by Upu?
[20:59] <jdtanner> yes, very neat little thing. I'm just working on getting it up and running now.
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> it's awesome!
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> let me explain
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> my labor is on the third story
[20:59] <staylo> now playing Kings of Edam - Cheese on Fire
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> and the main exit of the physics dept. is the 1st story
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> I walked down with laptop, FTDI and GPS
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander_> placed it outside and fired up VisualGPS
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander_> got lock after some 20 seconds
[21:00] <jdtanner> they are amazing&I get a lock in my house&on the grounf floor inside
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander_> that was awesome
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah!
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> I got lock inside as well but it took 20 minutes or so
[21:01] <jdtanner> Just need to get my code working now :D
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> then, I took my styro box and placed the GPS inside and put the lid on
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> lock time was about 30 secs then
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> still OK
[21:01] <jdtanner> cool
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> what does your code do?
[21:02] <jdtanner> Well, not much at the moment&just reads debug information and prints it to the serial monitor
[21:03] <jdtanner> I've written my RTTY code...
[21:03] <jdtanner> just need to finish the gps code and then link the two&then test test test :)
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[21:03] <jdtanner> how about you?
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> I found out something like connecting the GPS to UART 1 and then send that on to the PC via Arduino
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander_> well I showed my code to nigelvh and daveake
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander_> and then they said I should amend it like that
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander_> have to try it later on
[21:04] <jdtanner> cool, let me know how you get one
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander_> btw I have Arduino Pro Mega 3.3V
[21:05] <jdtanner> I have a pro mini 3.3v
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> Mega is cooler cause it has more pins!
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[21:07] <jdtanner> True&but the mini is tiny :D
[21:07] <r2x0t> also cheaper
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander_> xD!
[21:07] <r2x0t> better don't expect anything you tie to a balloon to return :)
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander_> but I expect it
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander_> to some extent
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander_> xD!
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander_> cause the SD card will have science data
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander_> :D
[21:09] <jdtanner> Science data&in the middle of a lake ;)
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander_> XD!
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander_> that would be bad jdtanner
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[21:55] <fsphil> frodo seems to be in slow motion most of this movie
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[21:59] <jdtanner> lol
[22:00] <jonsowman> ok
[22:00] <jonsowman> oops wrong channel
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[22:01] <jdtanner> Nice&alien
[22:01] <fsphil> indeed
[22:01] <jdtanner> good movie night tonight :)
[22:01] <fsphil> not seen that in aaages
[22:02] <jdtanner> Just got the quadrilogy (sp?) on Blu-Ray for less than a tenner from Amazon
[22:03] <fsphil> second one is my fav
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[22:03] <jdtanner> Yes, that is probably mine as well :)
[22:04] <jdtanner> Reminds me of playing space Marine when I was younger :)
[22:04] <jdtanner> space Hulk even
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[22:18] <fsphil> eh it's bilbo again
[22:18] <jdtanner> that *is* an unexpected journey
[22:19] <fsphil> hah
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[22:24] <jdtanner> Interesting fact: when they come out of the spaceship in a little bit, Ridley Scott used his own children to make the ship look bigger&rather than building a larger ship!
[22:24] <jdtanner> :)
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander_> where?
[22:25] <jdtanner> Alien&sorry&it is on over here in the UK
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[22:30] <jdtanner> Right, off to bed&night all :)
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[00:00] --- Sun Jun 3 2012