highaltitude.log.20120531

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[01:55] <kristianpaul> can a drone get up to 30000 Mts?
[01:59] <Darkside> unlikely
[01:59] <Darkside> well
[01:59] <Darkside> unless its like a U2 drone :P
[01:59] <kristianpaul> he
[02:00] <SpeedEvil> Large slow gliders are also possible
[02:00] <SpeedEvil> IC is problematic
[02:04] <kristianpaul> IC, u mean the navigation part? gps limitation and comunication with ground station?
[02:06] <SpeedEvil> Internal combustion
[02:06] <kristianpaul> ah
[02:07] <SpeedEvil> you'd need a monster supercharger to get enough air.
[02:07] <kristianpaul> yup..
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[02:12] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grob_Strato_2C
[02:12] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[02:12] <SpeedEvil> Using the front-end of a jet engine as a first stage turbo
[02:13] <SpeedEvil> you'd want something looking like that, I guess.
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[02:30] <kristianpaul> quite big tought..
[02:30] <kristianpaul> but it should be i guess
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[06:47] <UpuWork> morning
[06:55] <jcoxon> morning UpuWork
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[06:59] <SamSilver__> jcoxon: could you help with a gas problem please
[07:01] <jcoxon> i'm not sure i can
[07:01] <jcoxon> i'm not the best with the maths
[07:01] <SamSilver__> I have 7833L of He and I have 2000g of long life lubber and my payload is 1750g
[07:01] <SamSilver__> http://imgur.com/a/vTQ9K
[07:02] <UpuWork> thats alot of gas
[07:02] <SamSilver__> from the calc you can see I have put the same amount of gs into the same balloon then doubled the payload in the 2nd calc and yet only go 1m lower in alti?
[07:02] <UpuWork> your ascent rate is much higher though
[07:02] <UpuWork> how much does your payload weigh ?
[07:03] <SamSilver__> 1750g
[07:03] <jcoxon> SamSilver__, well the balloon will burst dependent on how much gas is in it
[07:03] <jcoxon> not hte payload mass
[07:03] <UpuWork> change the ascent rate on that second one to 5 m/s
[07:03] <SamSilver__> but when I though I would put two of them on the burst only changed 1m
[07:03] <UpuWork> same amount of gas in both
[07:03] <jcoxon> as in hte balloon itself can only hold a particular volume of gas
[07:03] <jcoxon> before it bursts
[07:03] <UpuWork> just one goes up like a rocket :)
[07:03] <SamSilver__> got it!
[07:04] <jcoxon> it doesn't matter about the rest
[07:04] <SamSilver__> was having a bit of a brain fart there
[07:04] <SamSilver__> thanx
[07:04] <jcoxon> you going for alti?
[07:04] <UpuWork> try reduce the wieght of your payload
[07:04] <SamSilver__> nope just a big camera and a video
[07:05] <UpuWork> 5m/s will give 35km
[07:05] <SamSilver__> when I saw the accent rate I thought I wonder if I could put two payloads on
[07:05] <SamSilver__> I feel a bit silly now
[07:05] <UpuWork> but if the kit is expensive I'd just dump all your gas in
[07:06] <SamSilver__> the initial vo; of gas determines the burst alti
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[07:06] <SamSilver__> kit is very expensive
[07:06] <SamSilver__> vo; = volume
[07:07] <UpuWork> yeah ensure a burst
[07:08] <SamSilver__> thanx for the help
[07:08] <jcoxon> SamSilver__, when you launching?
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[07:09] <SamSilver__> i have been making predictions for 6 mths now but it is now $ that are holding things back
[07:09] <UpuWork> morning daveake
[07:09] <UpuWork> launching in the uk SamSilver_ ?
[07:09] <daveake> morning one and all
[07:09] <SamSilver__> soo the date is now in somtime in July
[07:10] <UpuWork> >D
[07:10] <daveake> ooer
[07:10] <UpuWork> XD
[07:10] <UpuWork> thats it
[07:10] <daveake> I wonder when LL will surprise us by launching
[07:13] <UpuWork> he was meant to be launching by end of May
[07:13] Action: UpuWork looks at the calendar
[07:13] <UpuWork> cutting it a bit fine
[07:13] <daveake> today XD
[07:16] <gonzo_> hab time does not run concurrent with clock time
[07:16] <UpuWork> hey btw legally as a HAM you aren't allowed to talk to anyone outside the UK
[07:16] <jcoxon> UpuWork, really?
[07:17] <UpuWork> OFCOM have an error on the Section 2 terms and conditions
[07:17] <gonzo_> of the licence?
[07:17] <UpuWork> if your bored check Section 11 Messages whrre it says you should only use the kit to speak to other "Amateurs"
[07:17] <UpuWork> then it defines "Amateurs" as a holder of a UK Radio License
[07:18] <UpuWork> implication being... obviously an error but we made OFCOM aware of it
[07:21] <gonzo_> ah yes, 11(2)
[07:22] <gonzo_> and the context does not otherwise require, so looks like that is the case
[07:22] <gonzo_> well spotted
[07:23] <UpuWork> well in fairness it wasn't me who spotted it but we were going through them for the full exam
[07:29] <gonzo_> Well spotted whoever then
[07:29] <gonzo_> it's usually me who sees these things. Usually looking for loopholes.
[07:29] <UpuWork> M0PGE
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[07:35] <jonsowman> anyone with a copy of the hourly running should pull from upstream (cuspaceflight)
[07:36] <jonsowman> this bug is active at the moment due to month boundary
[07:36] <jonsowman> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction/issues/8
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[07:37] Action: UpuWork ponders
[07:37] <UpuWork> how do I "pull from the upstream" ? :)
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[07:37] <jonsowman> just go into the repo and "git pull"
[07:37] <jonsowman> if you look at it at the moment
[07:37] <jonsowman> you'll see it has the rest of today, one point in June, then jumps to July
[07:37] <UpuWork> so it does
[07:40] <UpuWork> git clone https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction ?
[07:40] <jonsowman> just cd to your existing repo
[07:41] <jonsowman> if you then run "git remote show origin"
[07:41] <jonsowman> what does it print under Fetch URL?
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[07:41] <UpuWork> just trying to find it
[07:42] <UpuWork> [root@ChimpsJNR cusf-landing-prediction]# git remote show origin
[07:42] <UpuWork> * remote origin
[07:42] <UpuWork> Fetch URL: https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction
[07:42] <UpuWork> Push URL: https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction
[07:42] <jonsowman> yep, great
[07:42] <UpuWork> so just git pull ?
[07:42] <jonsowman> yep
[07:42] <UpuWork> that was easy
[07:43] <jonsowman> :)
[07:43] <UpuWork> guess you have to rerun the predictions for it to take effect ?
[07:43] <jonsowman> nope
[07:43] <jonsowman> it's only a frontend display error
[07:43] <jonsowman> you might need to clear cache locally or on the webserver
[07:43] <jonsowman> but it should now be fine
[07:43] <UpuWork> ah yes
[07:43] <UpuWork> it is thanks
[07:43] <jonsowman> excellent
[07:44] <jonsowman> right, bbl
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[08:01] <SamSilver__> private rocket > http://bespin.sevnthsin.com/?p=168
[08:03] <WillDuckworth> anyone know what time the dragon is detaching and coming back?
[08:05] <daveake> Detahces about midday I think
[08:06] <daveake> wrong :(
[08:06] <daveake> scheduled to be detached from the station at 4:05 a.m. EDT (0805 GMT) on Thursday and released from the station's crane about 90 minutes later. Splashdown in the Pacific Ocean about 564 miles southwest of Los Angeles is expected at 11:44 a.m. EDT (1544 GMT).
[08:06] <daveake> So now, then
[08:07] <daveake> NASA TV is showing 1:28 from now
[08:08] <daveake> OK, it's been "de-mated" now
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[08:11] <gonzo_> someone much have chucked a bucket of cold water over them
[08:17] <daveake> s/water/paint. It's art you know.
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[08:27] <gonzo_> was thinking like you do with double decker dogs
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[09:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Josh Taylor "[UKHAS] Re: Anyone want to piggyback payloads?"
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[10:20] <daveake> Those SD cards are pretty robust ... http://www.steves-digicams.com/news/4_year_old_camera_washes_up_on_a_ca_beachmemory_card_still_working.html#b
[10:21] <nick_> Did they find the final photos of a guy being eaten by a shark?
[10:22] <UpuWork> :)
[10:22] <nick_> daveake: eroomde said you were planning a launch near here soon?
[10:22] <nick_> Where here is Oxford
[10:22] <daveake> here?
[10:22] <daveake> Berks
[10:23] <daveake> Yeah 30 mins away
[10:23] <nick_> What are you launching?
[10:23] <daveake> Dunno yet :D
[10:23] <daveake> Probably a small camera payload
[10:23] <fsphil> don't bring your pets
[10:23] <nick_> If I'm free can I get involved?
[10:23] <daveake> Sure
[10:24] <daveake> Our pets are (luckily for them) too heavy to get launched
[10:24] <UpuWork> lol
[10:24] <daveake> Though perhaps 2 balloons would do it ....
[10:24] <UpuWork> cat in space
[10:24] <nick_> Has anyone launched any animals?
[10:24] <nick_> I've heard of people launching some bugs
[10:27] <GW8RAK> Morning. There's been a lot of discussion on here about data modes particularly for HF, but I'm wondering if anyone has looked at DRM?
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[10:36] <fsphil> it's very complicated
[10:36] <fsphil> very very
[10:36] <GW8RAK> Thought for moment it had killed the conversation on here :)
[10:37] <nick_> What's DRM other than Digital Rights Management?
[10:37] <GW8RAK> Oh yes, very complicated, but a friend has been waxing lyrical for about 10 years and I just don't understand what the fuss is about.
[10:37] <GW8RAK> Digital Radio Mondiale
[10:38] <SamSilver_> oliva data gets my vote
[10:39] <fsphil> you'd never be able to do drm from an avr or ntx2
[10:39] <fsphil> it would need a fairly beefy processor to generate the signal
[10:39] <fsphil> and a radio that can accept an I/Q signal
[10:39] <GW8RAK> Wasn't thinking of it, just trying to grips with it. Downloadable software etc etc
[10:39] <GW8RAK> Thinking that some of the brains on here had looked at it.
[10:40] <fsphil> I've played with easypal a bit
[10:40] <SamSilver_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_MFSK
[10:41] <fsphil> the FDMDV modem they're playing with for codec2 would be another option
[10:41] <GW8RAK> DRM has the advantage of higher data rates and FEC over Olivia.
[10:41] <GW8RAK> Just looking for easypal Phil
[10:41] <fsphil> easypal is badly named
[10:41] <fsphil> it's neither easy nor pal :)
[10:42] <G0DJA> I tried the old DRM software but then EasyPal and others took over.
[10:42] <GW8RAK> In that case.....
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[10:43] <G0DJA> Voice is rare and difficult to do, plus usual latency issues, Data is more common but you need goos S to S+N levels to avoid too many retries
[10:43] <G0DJA> good
[10:43] <G0DJA> VHF is easier to do
[10:43] <SamSilver_> Olivia MFSK is an amateur radioteletype protocol designed to work in difficult (low signal-to-noise ratio plus multipath propagation) conditions on shortwave bands. The signal can still be properly copied when it is buried 10 dB below the noise floor (i.e. when the amplitude of the noise is just over 8 times that of the signal)
[10:44] <GW8RAK> For HF I've found Pactor is hard to beat. Expensive, but efficient
[10:44] <fsphil> don't forget the frequency drift too
[10:44] <fsphil> most modes don't handle that well
[10:44] <G0DJA> If you want very low signal systems the WSJT ones are good
[10:44] <fsphil> rtty and psk being the main exceptions
[10:44] <GW8RAK> Datarate is more important at present than weak signal ability
[10:44] <fsphil> and dominoex to a degree
[10:45] <G0DJA> Datarates on HF very unpredictable due to usual propagation issues and general noise (getting worse with PCM noise as well)
[10:46] <GW8RAK> Pactor 3 is about as fast as it gets for amateur use, but I'm trying to find out what DRM can do.
[10:46] <G0DJA> By the time you overcome the noise you might as well use VHF...
[10:47] <GW8RAK> But not if you are a long way apart.
[10:47] <fsphil> I believe the easypal drm rate is about 1400bit/s
[10:47] <G0DJA> I'd forget DRM if I were you unless you have a lot of time and pacience and a station at each end well set up
[10:47] <fsphil> yea
[10:48] <fsphil> drm's a dead end
[10:48] <fsphil> recovery time after it's lost sync is fairly high
[10:48] <GW8RAK> I'm quite certain it is a dead end, just that when someone goes on about it, you want to understand why they like it.
[10:49] <G0DJA> What are they using it for?
[10:49] <G0DJA> Broadcasters seem keen, as do governments, until they actually try using it on HF...
[10:50] <GW8RAK> Picture and file transfer.
[10:50] <G0DJA> OH dear!
[10:51] <fsphil> I tuned into a DRM trial on longwave a while back
[10:51] <fsphil> it sounded alright. not fantastic
[10:53] <fsphil> the psk modes are pretty fast now
[10:53] <fsphil> would love to fly a modulator that could do it
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[11:16] <G0DJA> GW8RAK if someone going on ask them for details like time to transfer, number of repeat requests and what S to S+N levels they get
[11:16] <G0DJA> It may be 1400bit transmitted, but it wont be 1400bit/s after all the delays and corrupted packets are taken into account
[11:20] <gonzo_> I believe drm has the advantage of not needing super linear PAs
[11:21] <gonzo_> for hab though a psk would be better
[11:22] <gonzo_> though the narrow psk31 may not work with the doppler and poor freq stability we see at the mo on habs
[11:26] <daveake> Dragon is now free of the ISS
[11:27] <gonzo_> the bucket did the job!
[11:27] <daveake> :)
[11:27] <gonzo_> does anyone else in the HAB world get the gps jamming trials alerts?
[11:28] <gonzo_> if not, I'll cross post them on the ukhas group
[11:28] <daveake> Would be useful. How localised are these things?
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[11:31] <x-f> daveake, you're watching the replay? :)
[11:31] <gonzo_> they should be pretty localise on the ground. They are 10W tx. No ideas of the modulation, but suspect they will affect a far greater range for airborne receivers
[11:32] <gonzo_> but if you assume 50W tx at tyhe space craft, it could be quite a significant range!
[11:32] <daveake> Indeed. ISTR 60W from the sats
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[11:33] <gonzo_> r2x0t, did you ever start looking into your idea of an RTTY replacement mode for HAB?
[11:34] <griffonbot> Received email: jules@g0nzo.co.uk "[UKHAS] NOTIFICATION OF GPS JAMMING EXERCISES"
[11:35] <r2x0t> gonzo_: yes, just I'm to busy at work I don't have enough free time left to test it in hardware
[11:36] <gonzo_> work always gets in the way!
[11:36] <gonzo_> be interesting to see what you come up with
[11:38] <r2x0t> but found some papers from ESA and NASA, they are reccommending GMSK for interplanetary missions
[11:38] <fsphil> GMSK would be something we could do with the ntx2 yea?
[11:38] <r2x0t> no
[11:39] <r2x0t> unless you add DAC
[11:39] <fsphil> my next board will
[11:39] <r2x0t> then yes
[11:39] <r2x0t> it can be done with lookup tables + dac
[11:39] <fsphil> well, filtered pwm
[11:40] <r2x0t> heh, that's not good enough
[11:40] <r2x0t> unless your PWM gen is few MHz
[11:41] <r2x0t> to make proper GMSK, you need perfect and stable amplitude
[11:41] <r2x0t> and also gaussian filter shaping
[11:41] <fsphil> ah no then, 31khz
[11:41] <r2x0t> but amplitude is critical
[11:41] <gonzo_> you mean the amplitude of the keing waveform I assume?
[11:42] <r2x0t> I mean amplitude going to NTX2
[11:42] <r2x0t> because that affects the shift
[11:42] <gonzo_> yep, understood
[11:42] <r2x0t> if you don't have that exactly Rate/2, it will not demodulate using OQPSK demodulator
[11:43] <gonzo_> what raw baud rate are you lookig at?
[11:44] <r2x0t> that will be user parameter, but very narrow signals will be hard to tune
[11:44] <r2x0t> I'
[11:44] <r2x0t> I'm looking at something like 300Bd RF rate, 75Bd data rate
[11:45] <fsphil> heavy fec?
[11:45] <r2x0t> yes
[11:45] <r2x0t> minimum fec will be k=7 1/2
[11:45] <r2x0t> then k=9 1/3
[11:46] <r2x0t> and finally for best SNR K=15 r=1/6
[11:46] <r2x0t> this is code used on DSN Cassini mission
[11:46] <Laurenceb> you know as we are power limited we should go wideband
[11:47] <r2x0t> I also want to look into DSSS
[11:47] <r2x0t> spread spectrum will make everything easier
[11:47] <r2x0t> like tuning
[11:47] <r2x0t> but you can't do traditional DSSS with GMSK modulator
[11:48] <gonzo_> keeping within an AF spectrum, or going wide?
[11:48] <r2x0t> was thinking about keeping it <2500Hz for start
[11:49] <gonzo_> rgr, as most prople here only use narrow band RX
[11:49] <r2x0t> but would like to test max rate of RFM22, that's 258KHz
[11:49] <r2x0t> 256
[11:49] <gonzo_> even then the NTX2 can drift a few bandwidths in a flight
[11:49] <fsphil> wouldn't wide bandwidth be the last thing you want with a low power?
[11:49] <fsphil> +radio
[11:49] <r2x0t> no, because spread spectrum code adds your gain back
[11:50] <r2x0t> it's similar to GPS, signal is 3MHz wide, but actual data rate is 50Bd
[11:50] <r2x0t> code gain is huge for GPS
[11:50] <gonzo_> also we are limited to the areas of the 434mhz band that are quiet(ish)
[11:50] <BrainDamage> with some SS tecniques, you can even receive signals with SNR < 1
[11:50] <r2x0t> yes, easily...
[11:50] <Laurenceb> not exactly
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[11:51] <gonzo_> so a spread would want to stay with the quiet areas. But 256kHz should fit
[11:51] <BrainDamage> you have to assume something about noise correlation ofc
[11:51] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem
[11:52] <r2x0t> noise correlation is mostly uniform, but choosen code is very important
[11:52] <BrainDamage> Laurenceb: yes so?
[11:52] <BrainDamage> you're much below channel capacity
[11:52] <Laurenceb> so we need to go wideband
[11:52] <Laurenceb> as we are power limited
[11:53] <r2x0t> another thing: we can just reuse frequencies and do CDMA for wideband
[11:53] <r2x0t> multiple flights on same frequency, just different code
[11:53] <Laurenceb> yeah but a ntx2 wont work
[11:54] <r2x0t> problem is transmitter would need to be GPS locked
[11:54] <Laurenceb> something like an si4432 might
[11:54] <Laurenceb> with some creative modulation
[11:54] <r2x0t> problem with ntx and direct modulation is you really need DAC
[11:55] <r2x0t> and sending data at higher rates means you also need faster processor
[11:55] <Laurenceb> a somewhat larger issue is that its slow
[11:55] <BrainDamage> dac is not a huge issue with some higher end uC
[11:55] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:55] <Laurenceb> thats trivial
[11:55] <Laurenceb> im not sure the ntx2 can handle dsss
[11:55] <r2x0t> so offloading it to external modulator chip is much eaier for current design
[11:55] <Laurenceb> really you need phase coherency
[11:56] <fsphil> ntx2 shift will change with temperature
[11:56] <r2x0t> yes, that's bad
[11:56] <Laurenceb> in fact i wonder if something like a si4432 or cc1020 would even work
[11:56] <BrainDamage> you can thermostat it, altough that's extra power wasted
[11:56] <Laurenceb> as it shifts using the pll aiui
[11:56] <Laurenceb> so im not sure its going to be phase coherent
[11:56] <r2x0t> if these chips can do GMSK, it should
[11:57] <Laurenceb> hmm
[11:57] <Laurenceb> im not sure
[11:57] <r2x0t> frequency intability isn't problem
[11:57] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:57] <Laurenceb> phase instability is tho
[11:57] <r2x0t> just modulation have to be stable
[11:57] <Laurenceb> if you want DSSS
[11:57] <r2x0t> but modulation clock is much lower than IF modulation clock
[11:57] <Laurenceb> random phase jumps at each bit edge would screw it
[11:58] <Laurenceb> i think a stable frequency reference (txco+pll)
[11:58] <Laurenceb> then a xor
[11:58] <Laurenceb> then filters and power amp
[11:59] <Laurenceb> but that means a custom tx design
[11:59] <Laurenceb> im not convinced it can be done with off the shelf ics, and with ntx2 it wont work
[12:00] <Laurenceb> one idea i had a while back was a balun and rf switch
[12:00] <Laurenceb> its goofy but a simple way to "xor" the modulated signal
[12:01] <gonzo__mob> custom is not a prob. but does need someone to make and sell it. if we wamt plug and play
[12:01] <gonzo__mob> a simple dbm would do that
[12:04] <r2x0t> I want to base my design on what we use now, ie. Arduino + rfm22b + SSB radio
[12:04] <r2x0t> that way it will be just software
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[12:04] <r2x0t> if this works, I can try wider modulations with SDR
[12:04] <Laurenceb> i dont think dsss is possible like that
[12:05] <Laurenceb> but maybe im wrong
[12:05] <Laurenceb> need to delve into si4432 datasheet again
[12:05] <r2x0t> it does GMSK, that's all I need
[12:05] <r2x0t> GMSK = OQPSK
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> You can do DSSS without the phase mattering.
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> The perfromance drops a bit.
[12:05] <r2x0t> yes, just by correlating
[12:05] <Laurenceb> i thing pll (same as on WOMBAT), then rf switched balun then filtering and power amp
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> But you just use average energy detectors, not caring about the exact phase
[12:06] <Laurenceb> yeah you suffer performance loww
[12:06] <Laurenceb> im not convinced GMSK==OQPSK the way the rfm22b/si4432 does it
[12:07] <r2x0t> it does it by having DAC with tables with gaussian filtered pulse
[12:07] <r2x0t> then modulating FM modulator with it
[12:07] <Laurenceb> exactly
[12:07] <r2x0t> that's correct way
[12:07] <r2x0t> you don't need I/Q modulator for GMSK
[12:07] <Laurenceb> for gmfsk it is
[12:07] <Laurenceb> exACTLY
[12:07] <Laurenceb> so its phase incoherent
[12:07] <r2x0t> GMFSK with shift=rate/2 = GMSK
[12:08] <r2x0t> this makes the phase nice
[12:08] <Laurenceb> no
[12:08] <Laurenceb> thats exactly what it doesnt do
[12:08] <Laurenceb> the phase is nasty
[12:08] <Laurenceb> try to lock a costas loop or similar onto it and you would fail
[12:08] <r2x0t> look
[12:09] <r2x0t> I have generator that does gmsk exactly this way
[12:09] <r2x0t> square signal -> gauss filter -> FM modulator
[12:09] <r2x0t> and can demodulate is as OQPSK
[12:09] <r2x0t> phase is perfect, no jumps
[12:10] <Laurenceb> yes, but it drifts a lot i bet
[12:10] <Laurenceb> and drifts dependant on the data pattern
[12:10] <r2x0t> why would it do that?
[12:10] <Laurenceb> also its going to be a lot worse with cheap integrated vco hardware
[12:10] <Laurenceb> itd directly biasing the vco
[12:10] <r2x0t> drift of FM modulator depends on TCXO, that may drift a bit
[12:11] <Laurenceb> and everything becomes nasty and nonlinear
[12:11] <r2x0t> but it really doesn't depend on modulatino
[12:11] <r2x0t> modulation
[12:11] <r2x0t> unless you tx some stupid pattern
[12:11] <r2x0t> like 111111111111111111111111111111111111...
[12:11] <Laurenceb> you need IQ based generation off a TCXO to get good stability
[12:11] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe it will kind of work
[12:12] <Laurenceb> im not convinced its going to work well, but maybe worth trying
[12:41] <eroomde> Laurenceb: http://www.st.com/internet/analog/product/253513.jsp
[12:41] <eroomde> it's getting too easy nowadays :)
[12:41] <eroomde> i'm going to use this chip fo shizzle
[12:43] <gonzo_> the earlyradio met sondes used valves for the TX
[12:45] <kokey> be a real man
[12:45] <kokey> wire wrap some logic gates for a GPS receiver
[12:45] <eroomde> a kalman filter with discrete logic
[12:45] <eroomde> aaargh
[12:45] <eroomde> i'm trying to think how i would make a hardware matrix inverter
[12:46] <eroomde> i suspect i wouldn't
[12:46] <eroomde> a pll is a kalman filter infact, maybe you could analogise the whole thing up
[12:46] <kokey> I guess the LSM333D is popular with multirotor copter kids
[12:46] <eroomde> yeah
[12:46] <eroomde> well, and me
[12:46] <eroomde> having a cheapy everything on chip is nice
[12:46] <eroomde> will put one on the generic rocket and balloon flight computer
[12:47] <nick_> I saw a good video on accelerometer chips the other day.
[12:48] <nick_> I had no idea how they actually work.
[12:48] <kokey> magic
[12:48] <eroomde> magic until you happen upon some resonant frequency of the silicon proof mass
[12:48] <nick_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZVgKu6v808 if anyone's interested.
[12:49] <eroomde> then it becomes evil
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[12:50] <Laurenceb> eroomde: yeah its quite nice
[12:50] <Laurenceb> the accel isnt the best, and the gyro is quite poor compared to invensense
[12:51] <Laurenceb> i suspect the itg9150 is at least as good
[12:51] <Laurenceb> - same thing from invensense
[12:51] Action: Laurenceb is waiting for the stm32f3 from st
[12:51] <Laurenceb> like an f4, but with two 16bit adcs
[12:52] <WillDuckworth> got one of these which may be fun: http://store.ckdevices.com/products/Mongoose-9DoF-IMU-with-Barometric-Pressure-Sensor-.html
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> 16 bit/what freq?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> youll never run a kalman on a avr
[12:52] <Laurenceb> well - very slowly
[12:53] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: i dont know :(
[12:53] <Laurenceb> reading leaked internal stuff from ST
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> leaked?
[12:53] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:53] <Laurenceb> should be launching in a month or so
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> my only leaked docs are those to the baseband in my old phone.
[12:54] <Laurenceb> the hard part is making a kalman filter behave
[12:54] <Laurenceb> getting good sensors is easyish
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[12:54] <Laurenceb> i still cant manage reliable kalman filter performance
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> Indeed. And now cheap.
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> At least for chort-term - sensors have gotten _so_ much cheaper
[12:55] <Laurenceb> theres an art to fiddling the covar matrices it seems
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> short
[12:57] <Laurenceb> eroomde: your biprop rocket, what injector design did you use?
[12:58] Action: Laurenceb is reading a book on centrifugal pump design
[12:58] <Laurenceb> turns out you can fairly easily get 80% efficiency or so
[12:58] <Laurenceb> the volute on the output converts the KE to extra pressure
[12:58] <Laurenceb> so you dont lose all the efficiency to turbulence
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[13:00] <Laurenceb> http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/car/rocket_propulsion/update_-_march_2011.cfm?cit_id=4301
[13:01] <UpuWork> ping cuddykid
[13:02] <cuddykid> pong
[13:03] <Laurenceb> the centrifugal part looks really basic to me
[13:04] <Laurenceb> presumably the "prop" shaped impellor at the inlet gives it some swirl as well as boosting the pressure
[13:04] <Laurenceb> or itd cavitate as it meets those simple radial blades
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[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Dragon deorbit burn in 30 min or so.
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Renntry about 40 min after that, with landing 15 min later.
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> I seem to have been out an hour on timezones - add one hour to that.
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I forgot BST again
[13:30] <fsphil> I wish everyone would
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[13:34] <nick_> I wouldn't mind so much if everyone changed their timezone on the same date
[13:36] <Laurenceb> heh my RTC code for stm32 thinks its in Berlin atm
[13:36] <Laurenceb> probably as i nicked it from mikrocontroller.net
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[13:36] <LazyLeopard> The whole clock-changing ruse is a waste of time. Consign it to history.
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[13:42] <SpeedEvil> Damn. They're gonna burn up those nice solar panels.
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> I want them!
[13:42] <russss> go up and get them then ;)
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> unfortunately, I don't think I can build an suitable tug in the 10 minutes I have before it'd need to launch.
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> I do have some sticky-back plastic and a fairy liquid bottle though, so I might give it a try.
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[13:43] <SpeedEvil> Oh - no pipecleaners.
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> Oh well.
[13:43] <nick_> I got excited about getting a free solar panel the other day.
[13:44] <nick_> Unfortunately it's hidden in a sealed environmental chamber so I didn't realise how small it is.
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> heh
[13:44] <nick_> It can only produce ~1V
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[13:49] <eroomde> they're normal conventional terrestrial solar panels
[13:49] <eroomde> on dragon
[13:50] <eroomde> which put a limit of about 30 days on solar flight ops
[13:50] <eroomde> as they degrade
[13:50] <eroomde> but they're a small percentage of the cost of space solar panels
[13:50] <fsphil> they dumping them?
[13:50] <eroomde> burning them up
[13:50] <eroomde> they're on the bit that doesn't have the heatshield
[13:51] <fsphil> ah -- so they're not detaching them first?
[13:51] <russss> they're on the service module (they call it the "trunk") which gets detached after the deorbit burn
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Really?
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Wacky. And sensible.
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[14:16] <russss> so according to the numbers on the SpaceX site, it's deorbit burn: 15:51 BST, splashdown 16:44
[14:16] <russss> if I haven't cocked up the time zones
[14:16] <russss> which I don't think I have
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> 100m/s burn in 35 mins, lasting 9:50s
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> trunk then jettisons in 20 mins.
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> (after the deorbit burn)
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[14:25] <SamSilver__> i have found some HAB tartan duct tape! http://www.duckbrand.com/Products/duck-tape/duck-tape-patterns.aspx?IDH=280849
[14:26] <kokey> SamSilver__: funny
[14:26] <kokey> they have hello kitty too
[14:27] <SamSilver__> i am bit too scots for that laddie
[14:29] <kokey> perhaps get a custom irn bru one done
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[14:35] <eroomde> is any of the deorbit/recovery to be streamed?
[14:37] <r2x0t> only on nasa tv
[14:37] <r2x0t> they will show it on map
[14:37] <r2x0t> nothing more
[14:37] <eroomde> no live stream from a helicopter looking for the parachutes?
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[14:44] <SamSilver__> eroomde: there will be and it will be filmed in infra red
[14:45] <SamSilver__> they said quality might be not too clear
[14:47] <eroomde> fun
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[14:59] <SpeedEvil> 46 mins to splashdown.
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[15:26] <SpeedEvil> Past entry interface now, I think.
[15:26] <Laurenceb> should be heating up now
[15:26] <r2x0t> yes
[15:27] <r2x0t> too bad there is no converage at all on nasa tv
[15:27] <r2x0t> just this stupid spacex command center camera
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> There is - sortof
[15:27] <Laurenceb> 6minutes till they hear from it again
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> yeah - just that
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> r2x0t: But what else could there be?
[15:27] <russss> they hope to have live video from the chase planes
[15:27] <r2x0t> at least simple map with current position would be nice
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> it's not yet in sight of the chase planes though
[15:28] <r2x0t> like with STS, nothing fancy
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[15:30] <fsphil> ok who broke the internet
[15:30] <russss> we're not sure but there was a fairly sizeable outage
[15:31] <jcoxon> afteroon all
[15:31] <fsphil> hiya jcoxon
[15:31] <navrac_> hi james
[15:31] <number10> launching this weekend jcoxon ?
[15:31] <Laurenceb> its out of the plasma?
[15:33] <russss> live video
[15:33] <r2x0t> finally
[15:33] <jcoxon> no launches this weekend
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[15:33] <jcoxon> sorry
[15:33] <Laurenceb> lol
[15:33] <Laurenceb> looks like arduino on screen display
[15:33] <jcoxon> we are waiting on a few things to be built
[15:33] <jcoxon> no point launching till then
[15:34] <navrac_> are you going for the valve this time then
[15:34] <jcoxon> thats the plan
[15:34] <number10> ok, are you modifying the chinese handhelds?
[15:34] <russss> don is getting a bit eager
[15:34] <jcoxon> dump He to get a lower float volume
[15:34] <russss> calm down Don
[15:34] <jcoxon> number10, not needed to mod them currently
[15:34] <r2x0t> lol VLC toolbar on video
[15:34] <jcoxon> can do a lot with audio in and ptt
[15:35] <navrac_> you can haev ozzie2 with solar to stick underneath if you like - I cant launch for 2-3 weeks yet with the heptax balloon
[15:36] <number10> thats good, what sort of battery life do you expect
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> Chutes are out.
[15:37] <stilldavid> SpeedEvil: this IR camera is pretty cool
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> Indeed!
[15:37] <russss> 3 good mains
[15:37] <jcoxon> number10, as we aren't txing that often quite a long time
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> And fully open.
[15:38] <number10> should be fun jcoxon
[15:38] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:38] <jcoxon> will need lots of help for it
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[15:38] <SpeedEvil> i guess this is nIR - as the chutes have colour, and the dragon isn't glowing
[15:39] <navrac_> anything you need jcoxon just ask, happy to help
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[15:39] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how on-target it is.
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[15:43] <russss> splashdown
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[15:43] <jcoxon> navrac_, number10 come and help with the launch :-)
[15:43] <navrac_> your feed must be ahead of mine - still have 1:30 here
[15:43] <Laurenceb> landed
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> I have 1:34 here
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[15:43] <Lunar_LanderU> Dragon is home!
[15:43] <navrac_> let us know when the next one is
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> ~septemberish
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> reportely
[15:44] <number10> ""
[15:44] <r2x0t> at least they have nice location.... no need to worry about landing on a tree :)
[15:44] <navrac_> well if there not using the recovery boats then maybe they can lend it for daveakes next launch
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[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> hi daveake, DO1SEC
[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> we have landing!
[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> we=SpaceX
[15:46] <daveake> landing? It missed if it hit land ...
[15:46] <Lunar_LanderU> splashdown
[15:47] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: also ordered a Canon A490, cost was 45 euro
[15:47] <r2x0t> but don't worry, you haven't missed anything
[15:47] <Lunar_LanderU> did it look like Apollo
[15:47] <daveake> 45 is a bit steep
[15:47] <r2x0t> worse
[15:47] <daveake> I try not to go above £30
[15:47] <Lunar_LanderU> why?
[15:47] <r2x0t> video quality was like if you use cheap VHS camera and copy it 50 times
[15:47] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: yeah, isn't 30 GBP like 45 euro?
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[15:48] <SamSilver__> video was infra red
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[15:48] <daveake> £36
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: 35 GBP=45 Euro
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> 37 euro something equals 30 GBP
[15:49] <Laurenceb> its sunk
[15:49] <daveake> ^^ maths error
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> NO!
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> did it really sink?
[15:50] <SamSilver__> They have a submarine on stand by
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> they can't find it due to clouds.
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Someone needs to build them a GPS tracker.
[15:50] <SamSilver__> in shallow water
[15:50] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[15:50] <SamSilver__> only 1786m deep
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[15:51] <daveake> That ship needs my direction-finding system :D
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[15:52] <Lunar_LanderU> the one for the LCD that you made for the dashboard?
[15:55] <Laurenceb> they did seem to be using diydrones osd or something on the chase plane
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[15:56] <daveake> I think my live recovery video was better too :D
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[16:04] <nick_> Lunar_LanderU: I'm trying to see if my cosmic detector can actually measure cosmics
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[16:13] <eroomde> better quality now
[16:13] <eroomde> though still not good in an absolute sense
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> It's even the right way up.
[16:14] <eroomde> Upu: thanks for the tip a bit back about interparcel
[16:14] <eroomde> they're marvellous
[16:15] <daveake> I like them
[16:15] <eroomde> makes everything so much easier
[16:16] <daveake> Prices are better than we I used to have accounts with UPS or whovever
[16:16] <eroomde> yeah i wonder how they do it
[16:16] <daveake> when*
[16:16] <daveake> whoever*
[16:16] <eroomde> usually about £8 to get something picked up from your premesis and overnight courierd
[16:17] <eroomde> for just a showbox that doesn't weigh too much
[16:17] <eroomde> shoe*
[16:17] <Upu> who me ? Wasn't my tip I use UPS but welcome :)
[16:17] <eroomde> oh maybe it was daveake then
[16:17] <eroomde> i retract all the nice things i've ever said to you
[16:17] <daveake> I didn't like to say :D
[16:17] <Upu> no problems
[16:18] <daveake> Awe don't do that.... someone has to say nice things about him :p
[16:18] <Upu> LINX is broken btw
[16:18] <eroomde> LINX?
[16:18] <Upu> so if your internets are ropey thats why
[16:18] <Upu> London Internet Exchange
[16:18] <eroomde> Oh!
[16:18] <eroomde> yes they were
[16:18] <eroomde> lost connection for about 45 mins ending about 15 mins agoi
[16:19] <Upu> ok afk back much later on
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[16:25] <Lunar_LanderU> nick_: cool!
[16:25] <Lunar_LanderU> and hi and see you soon Upu
[16:25] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[16:27] <nick_> Things aren't looking so great right now.
[16:27] <eroomde> oh?
[16:27] <nick_> But it's hard to tell
[16:27] <nick_> I'm trying to count what should be a low rate.
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[16:28] <nick_> Need to wait until I've got a decent sample sizes to compare.
[16:29] <eroomde> 7pm final briefing about dragon
[16:30] <eroomde> nick_: is the issue detecting the tiny pulses?
[16:30] <nick_> Yes
[16:31] <nick_> And I can detect signals from my radiation source.
[16:31] <nick_> Now I'm trying to prove that I can detect cosmic rays too
[16:31] <eroomde> ah right
[16:31] <nick_> Sorry, I misread, I meant no.
[16:31] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: 7 pm UTC?
[16:31] <eroomde> bst
[16:31] <eroomde> 7pm in england
[16:31] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[16:31] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[16:31] <Lunar_LanderU> 6 pm UTC?
[16:31] <eroomde> 1hr 30m
[16:31] <Lunar_LanderU> ah ok
[16:31] <eroomde> from now
[16:31] <nick_> At the moment I'm doing long runs with/without scintillator to try and show the signal I get from having the scintiliator, ie cosmic rays
[16:32] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah that is 6 pm UTC and 8 pm CEST
[16:34] <nick_> I think I'm sufferening from having a terrible coupling between the scintillator and the photomultiplier.
[16:34] <daveake> I have a terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side
[16:34] <Lunar_LanderU> ohhh!
[16:35] <daveake> But I can rectify that
[16:35] <eroomde> i have hhgtg/pun fatigue
[16:36] <eroomde> cannot come out and play today
[16:38] <Dan-K2VOL> it's ok, sometimes you just can't resist such a joule
[16:42] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah that was bad
[16:45] <jcoxon> evening Dan-K2VOL
[16:50] <Lunar_LanderU> hi Dan-K2VOL, jcoxon
[16:50] <fsphil> oh dear, now dan's at it
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> hi jcoxon
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> Good news everyone
[16:52] <fsphil> uh-oh
[16:52] <jcoxon> uhuh
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL> we all now have a (possibly) functional superpressure balloon stretch calculator app
[16:52] <fsphil> oh that is good news
[16:53] <jcoxon> nice
[16:53] <fsphil> I watch too much futurama
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> however I can't get this newfangled JavaFX onto my mac so I can't really check it right now
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil, blasphemy!
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> there is never enough of that
[16:53] <fsphil> true true
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> it was written by a high school (secondary school over there?) student as his final physics project, under my guidance
[16:55] <fsphil> we'll need to build some SPs to test it
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> we will indeed!
[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm getting it up on github, will post a link in a bit
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[16:56] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: that's good news
[16:57] <Dan-K2VOL> it's a really crude UI, as he's not super experienced, but it seems to produce a nice plot of pressure vs volume, and gives you the curve-fit equation that you need to plug in to the rest of the SP inflation and loading math
[17:04] <Lunar_LanderU> hey Dan-K2VOL
[17:04] <Lunar_LanderU> currently sorting geiger counter data
[17:08] <Dan-K2VOL> hi kev
[17:08] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[17:09] <nick_> Lunar_LanderU: what kind of even rate do you get with your geiger counter?
[17:13] <Lunar_LanderU> do you mean like the background?
[17:13] <Lunar_LanderU> that is about 18 counts per minute on average
[17:14] <nick_> Define background.
[17:14] <Lunar_LanderU> running the counter on the table with no artificial radiation sources nearby
[17:15] <nick_> OK
[17:16] <Lunar_LanderU> do you mean that with "even rate"?
[17:16] <nick_> Sorry
[17:16] <nick_> I meant event rate
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[17:18] <Lunar_LanderU> ah ok
[17:18] <Lunar_LanderU> wait
[17:18] <Lunar_LanderU> I can give you the average counts per second also
[17:19] <nick_> Do you know what you should expect from cosmics?
[17:19] <Lunar_LanderU> you mean when sending it up by balloon?
[17:19] <nick_> On the ground
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[17:20] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[17:20] <nick_> I wander if there's a way you can actual meaure the cosmic rate
[17:20] <Lunar_LanderU> not really
[17:20] <Lunar_LanderU> at least at the moment
[17:20] <nick_> One way would be to do a coincidence counting with 2 detectors.
[17:20] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:21] <nick_> But maybe you could try a simple muon lifetime measurement?
[17:21] <Lunar_LanderU> cosmics would get those double coincidences
[17:21] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe that too
[17:21] <Lunar_LanderU> how do you do that?
[17:21] <nick_> (the coincidence is good because you can meaure the angular dependence too)
[17:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:22] <nick_> so basically I think you can just raise the detector a relatively short distance and compare rates with heights to try and measure the muon lifetime.
[17:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:22] <nick_> Of course this is well known, so maybe you could use the method to calibrate the cosmic rate you're measuring.
[17:22] <Lunar_LanderU> counts per second is 0.29 on the average btw
[17:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[17:22] <Lunar_LanderU> cool!
[17:22] <Lunar_LanderU> I'll brb
[17:22] <nick_> Because that sounds high to me.
[17:22] <nick_> Given that your tube is pretty small.
[17:23] <Lunar_LanderU> the count rate?
[17:25] <nick_> I think so, yes.
[17:25] <Lunar_LanderU> oh ok
[17:25] <Lunar_LanderU> what would be a normal rate?
[17:26] <nick_> Not very many / cm^2 /s
[17:26] <nick_> I'm trying to find a good number
[17:26] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[17:26] <nick_> Above 1 GeV it's ~70/m^2/s/Sr
[17:27] <nick_> ~1/cm^2/min
[17:27] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[17:27] <nick_> Your tube isn't many cm^2, right?
[17:28] <Lunar_LanderU> not really
[17:28] <Lunar_LanderU> let me think
[17:28] <Lunar_LanderU> about 5 mm in diameter and about 10 cm long
[17:30] <nick_> so you'd expect ~5/min but you see ~20?
[17:31] <Lunar_LanderU> wait
[17:31] <Lunar_LanderU> I found my diagram
[17:31] <Lunar_LanderU> says 10 mm diameter
[17:32] <Lunar_LanderU> 108 mm length, so 10 cm should be OK as the ends are the things that fit into the sockets
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[17:42] <Lunar_LanderU> nick_: any comments on that?
[17:42] <nick_> So you'd expect ~10/min but see ~20/min
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[17:43] <nick_> So my first thought is can you confirm that there are ~10/min of cosmic and ~10/min of background?
[17:43] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah but that is the average
[17:44] <Lunar_LanderU> good question
[17:44] <nick_> And my second thought is: does it matter?
[17:44] <Lunar_LanderU> shall I try to measure with the counter sitting on a shelf or so?
[17:44] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
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[17:45] <nick_> Have you tried it outside?
[17:45] <Lunar_LanderU> not yet
[17:45] <Lunar_LanderU> can try
[17:45] <nick_> I guess the second question depends on what you really want to do.
[17:46] <nick_> Do you want to send it up to get a plot for fun, or do you want to try and understand the details?
[17:46] <Lunar_LanderU> latter thing
[17:47] <nick_> How much of the physics do you know?
[17:49] <Lunar_LanderU> I read quite a few papers on coincidence and something about muon lifetime as well
[17:50] <nick_> For example: do you know how geiger counters work? What cosmic rays are, etc.
[17:50] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:50] <Lunar_LanderU> am a physics student, 3rd year
[17:50] <nick_> OK
[17:50] <Lunar_LanderU> and you?
[17:50] <Lunar_LanderU> you're from Oxford right?
[17:50] <nick_> Im a graduate student.
[17:50] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[17:51] <Lunar_LanderU> that means you have the diploma and on your way to Ph.D.
[17:51] <nick_> Yes
[17:51] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[17:51] <Lunar_LanderU> physics too?
[17:51] <nick_> yeah, particle physics
[17:51] <Lunar_LanderU> cool!
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[17:52] <Lunar_LanderU> btw, I asked all the people in the report of the particle data group as well
[17:52] <Lunar_LanderU> beatty, matthews and the two people from bartol research institute
[17:52] <Lunar_LanderU> what they can tell me about geiger counters on balloons
[17:53] <nick_> I think there might be a group at Reading that do this fairly regularly.
[17:53] <Lunar_LanderU> ah, the Harrison group?
[17:53] <nick_> I'm not sure
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[17:53] <Lunar_LanderU> ah ok
[17:53] <nick_> I know someone that moved from there.
[17:53] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[17:54] <nick_> I know they're working on sending up pin diodes for some reason
[17:54] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[17:54] <Lunar_LanderU> I have to head home now, but we can talk later maybe?
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[17:56] <nick_> Sure
[17:56] <nick_> I'll head home soon too
[17:56] <nick_> But I'll generally be around
[17:56] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[17:56] <Lunar_LanderU> cu later!
[17:56] <nick_> bye
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[18:14] <fsphil> yay, home
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[18:49] <Laurenceb_> grrr wheres the STM32F3 when you need it
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[19:05] <nosebleedkt> those ar my warning & project signs on the payload
[19:05] <nosebleedkt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/185069_466239430056773_259791880701530_1922175_1128790743_n.jpg
[19:05] <nosebleedkt> :P
[19:06] <nosebleedkt> harmaless scientific experiment. In case you find it call ... blabla
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[19:12] <fsphil> "harmless explosive device"
[19:13] <nosebleedkt> lol
[19:13] <Dan-K2VOL> ok its online, here: https://github.com/steamfire/superpressure-stretch-lab-calc it's crude now of course
[19:13] <Dan-K2VOL> the stretch calc
[19:14] <Dan-K2VOL> but for the adventurous it will give you the stretch curve you need
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> http://spacexlaunch.zenfolio.com/p208064181/he3fd0df#h5e318da - parachutes.
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[19:18] <fsphil> ah, not as much scary maths as I expected
[19:18] <fsphil> still a fair bit
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> no, not much math at this stage, mainly tedious math
[19:19] <Dan-K2VOL> still more to do for calculating the altitude/helium fill/payload mass
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[19:20] <Dan-K2VOL> but having this allows a really critical measurement to be taken easily on any flight - the material stretch, and as long as someone measures helium fill and payload mass, the flight can now be forensically analyzed
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[19:21] <Dan-K2VOL> open source I might add, very permissive MIT license
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[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Is that for latex too?
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[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
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[19:43] <jdtanner> Evening all & anyone feeling up to offering a bit of help with a Ublox and an Arduino Pro Mini?
[19:43] <jdtanner> :)
[19:45] <fsphil> Horus repeater vid, www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MBtTP5RG-k
[19:45] <fsphil> Darkside: what's the buzzing noise?
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[19:45] <fsphil> hiya jdtanner
[19:46] <jdtanner> Hello :)
[19:47] <fsphil> what cha up to?
[19:47] <jdtanner> Well, I've finally managed to get my arduino& :)
[19:48] <jdtanner> I'm trying to see if I can get the Ublox to talk to me over serial&something simple to start with
[19:48] <jdtanner> But...
[19:48] <jdtanner> I seem to be having no luck. I'm quite keen just to see if I can open a dialogue with the GPS&nothig fancy yet :)
[19:49] <jdtanner> I'm trying to use SoftwareSerial
[19:49] <daveake> If I said "9600 baud", would that help?
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[19:50] <daveake> What have you done so far? Are you receiving anything at all?
[19:50] <jdtanner> I've tried to open a Serial and a SoftwareSerial connection (both at 9600)
[19:50] <fsphil> are you able to print messages to the PC?
[19:51] <jdtanner> From the Serial yes&but not from the SoftwareSerial&just junk characters
[19:51] <jdtanner> I've had a good look at other peoples code...
[19:52] <jonsowman> could be timing related
[19:52] <daveake> I'd connect GPS Tx --> Arduino RX, plus GND and 3V3 of course, and write some very simple code to echo characters straight to the PC. use hardware serial for now
[19:52] <jonsowman> try 9500 and 9700 baud
[19:52] Nick change: Smrtz_ -> Smrtz
[19:52] <jonsowman> really you want to scope/logic analyse it
[19:52] <jonsowman> but i very much suspect timing
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> one question
[19:53] <daveake> Also .... which Arduino Mini Pro? 3V3 (which is 8MHz) or 5V (which is 16MHz)? Have you told the IDE which one you have?
[19:53] <jdtanner> Rightly ho&I'll have a go at both of those things. I really don;t want to use other people's code without understanding what is going on
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> is it that on like the uno which has only one hardware serial, that thing won't work during programming/uploading code via the USB?
[19:54] <jdtanner> 3V3
[19:54] <jonsowman> jdtanner: have you got any test equipment to hand?
[19:54] <jdtanner> The ide knows&Lunar_Lander, yes&one hardware serial
[19:54] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: the usb is wired to the hardware uart so yea, you can only use it for one thing at a time (usually)
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[19:55] <jdtanner> jonsowman: not to hand no...
[19:55] <jdtanner> I'm sure I'm just doing something stupid
[19:55] <fsphil> arduino really needs more uarts
[19:55] <fsphil> moar rs232!
[19:55] <fsphil> gimme
[19:55] <daveake> Mega, but that's 5V and enormous :)
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[19:56] <jonsowman> fsphil: yeah, it could do with the SPI periph being configurable to async mode
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[20:25] <Laurenceb_> only for tx aiui
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[20:35] <jdtanner> Hi all again & (collective groan)
[20:35] <jonsowman> how's it going?
[20:35] <jdtanner> I've gone back to basics...
[20:35] <jdtanner> http://arduino.cc/en/Serial/read
[20:35] <jonsowman> mhm
[20:35] <jdtanner> Tx from the Ublox is connected to the Rx of the Arduino
[20:36] <jdtanner> Vcc and Gnd are connected
[20:36] <jdtanner> &and I'm getting bugger all
[20:36] <jonsowman> have you got a usb-serial adapter?
[20:36] <jonsowman> ftdi dongle or something?
[20:36] <jdtanner> I'm sure this is something stpudi
[20:36] <jdtanner> yes
[20:36] <jonsowman> have you tried connecting ublox to computer?
[20:37] <jdtanner> directly?
[20:37] <jonsowman> through the ftdi
[20:37] <jdtanner> yeah&sorry through the ftdi&nope&but I will
[20:37] <jonsowman> yeah try that first
[20:37] <jonsowman> at the moment there are too many variables, you need to find which isn't working
[20:38] <jonsowman> whack the serial terminal on the PC to 9600 baud see if you get NMEA
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[20:40] <jdtanner> Yep&working
[20:40] <jonsowman> right okay, so that's fine
[20:40] <jonsowman> good
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[20:40] <jdtanner> ooooh&NMEAy goodness
[20:40] <jonsowman> so the next thing to try is the other way round
[20:40] <jonsowman> connect PC to arduino
[20:41] <jonsowman> transmit a char and have the arduino return "Got char: <char>"
[20:41] <jdtanner> roger
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[20:59] <jdtanner> jonsowman: sorry&back now&working fine
[20:59] <jdtanner> :)
[20:59] <jonsowman> so both halves work
[20:59] <jdtanner> indeed
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy daveake nick_
[20:59] <jonsowman> connect them back together i guess
[20:59] <jonsowman> can i see your arduino code?
[21:00] <jdtanner> hence me thinking I'm doing something stupid
[21:00] <jdtanner> I just used this http://arduino.cc/en/Serial/read
[21:00] <jonsowman> you don't have the rx/tx lines crossed?
[21:00] <nick_> Hi
[21:01] <jdtanner> I've got Tx (gps) connected to Rx (arduino)
[21:01] <jonsowman> hmm yes that's right
[21:01] <jdtanner> I'll try again
[21:01] <jonsowman> both running at 3V3?
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[21:01] <jonsowman> not that it should matter idt
[21:02] <jdtanner> yeah
[21:02] <jonsowman> hmm
[21:02] <jonsowman> intruiging
[21:03] <jdtanner> Does that code look like it should work?
[21:04] <jonsowman> yes i don't see why not
[21:04] <jdtanner> me neither
[21:04] <jonsowman> you should at least get something
[21:06] <jonsowman> well
[21:06] <daveake> Just catching up as I was gone ... am I right that you can echo characters PC --> Arduino --> PC, but if you connect Rx to GPS Tx you don't see anything?
[21:07] <jonsowman> daveake: correct, and get NMEA from the GPS to PC
[21:07] <daveake> Oh
[21:07] <jonsowman> but they appear to dislike speaking to each other
[21:07] <daveake> That last bit rules out all of my next suggestions :p
[21:07] <jdtanner> Yes&correct
[21:07] <jonsowman> haha
[21:08] <jonsowman> really need a scope
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[21:08] <jdtanner> tell me about it :)
[21:08] <daveake> Sounds like the Arduino baud rate is wrong
[21:08] <jdtanner> 9600
[21:08] <daveake> Even so I'd expect to see some ggarbage coming through
[21:09] <jdtanner> If I drop it to 4800 garbage is coming through
[21:09] <daveake> And I know I asked before but the IDE is definitely set to the same Arduino you actually have?
[21:09] <jdtanner> in the serial monitor
[21:09] <jdtanner> Yeah
[21:09] <daveake> Ah yes
[21:10] <daveake> And when you have GPS --> PC, is the GPS still powered from the Arduino?
[21:10] <jdtanner> This is odd&yes..
[21:10] <jdtanner> I suspect I know what is coming
[21:10] <daveake> So the 3V3 and GND wires are untouched when you move from PC to Arduino?
[21:11] <jdtanner> Ah&.no &sorry&.The gps was powered from the FTDI
[21:11] <jdtanner> not the arduino
[21:11] <jonsowman> but common grounds?
[21:11] <daveake> OK, so (egg sucking mode) are you sure the GPS is connected to £v£ and GND on the Arduino?
[21:11] <daveake> 3V3
[21:12] <jdtanner> Yes&no other VCC on this arduino
[21:12] <jdtanner> pro mini
[21:12] <daveake> It's OK, you wouldn't be the first to forget to connect GND for example :)
[21:12] <jdtanner> :)
[21:13] <jdtanner> So, it appears if I play with the baud rate it syarts to tramsmit
[21:13] <daveake> Oh, just spotted something you said ... if you set 4800b baud you see something, if 8600 you see .. nothing?
[21:13] <daveake> 9600
[21:13] <jonsowman> jdtanner: which arduino is it?
[21:13] <daveake> mini pro
[21:14] <jdtanner> Ok&so if I so Serial.begin(9600)
[21:14] <daveake> he told us a couple of times :D
[21:14] <jonsowman> sorry
[21:14] <jonsowman> have missed bits on this conversation
[21:14] <daveake> me too
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[21:14] <jdtanner> Now upload to arduino
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[21:15] <jdtanner> I'm now getting something&but an error
[21:15] <jdtanner> avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0xe0
[21:17] <daveake> That's good :)
[21:17] <daveake> It means your GPS is interfering with the download
[21:17] <daveake> Disconnect GPS Tx whilst you download
[21:17] <daveake> I use a microswitch for this purpose :)
[21:18] <daveake> It's a problem you don't get with software serial (you get a heap of other problems instead!)
[21:18] <jdtanner> Right, so it sounds like it is working then?
[21:18] <jdtanner> :)
[21:19] <daveake> Getting closer anyway!
[21:19] <jdtanner> haha
[21:19] <jonsowman> getting there
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[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> does it help to use Serial 1 on the Mega?
[21:21] <jonsowman> try and avoid uploading the firmware with the GPS directly attached. the GPS output pin will end up trying to be driven by the FTDI
[21:21] <jonsowman> unlikely to actually break stuff
[21:21] <jdtanner> Ok&so it is now streaming a heck of a lot of two digit numbers&which is better. I disconnected the gps during download and the error vanished.
[21:22] <jdtanner> I think I remember that somebody talked about this before&and the solution was a resistor?
[21:22] <jdtanner> can't rememebr tbh
[21:22] <jonsowman> yes
[21:22] <jonsowman> we can sort that out later
[21:22] <jonsowman> for now just physically disconnect it when flashing firmware
[21:22] <jdtanner> roger :)
[21:23] <jonsowman> (alternatively we'll use software serial for GPS and this problem goes away)
[21:24] <jdtanner> Funnily enough I tried that before and got equally flummuxed
[21:24] <jonsowman> yeah software serial has its own (not insignificant) problems
[21:25] <jdtanner> At least I'm a little further on than before :)
[21:25] <jdtanner> thanks all
[21:25] <jdtanner> very confusing after a long day at work
[21:26] <jonsowman> yeah it is
[21:26] <jdtanner> Probably best not to attempt these things after a 5am start :P
[21:27] <jonsowman> haha
[21:27] <jonsowman> i'd have difficulty staying awake
[21:27] <jdtanner> it doesn't happen often thankfully
[21:28] <jonsowman> don't think i could cope
[21:28] <jonsowman> getting up at 9 is bad enough
[21:28] <jonsowman> <insert "typical student" comment>
[21:29] <jdtanner> haha&trust me&5am wouldn't be a time I'd chose :)
[21:29] <jonsowman> hehe
[21:29] <joph> sleeping till 12 o'clock is nice
[21:29] <jdtanner> This serial monitor is now merrily spitting out two digit numbers
[21:30] <jonsowman> that's exactly what you want
[21:30] <jonsowman> numbers between 0 and 255 i imagine?
[21:31] <jdtanner> Actually nothing over 99
[21:31] <jdtanner> seemingly
[21:31] <jonsowman> could be coincidence
[21:31] <jonsowman> now instead of the two Serial.print() lines, just put a single Serial.print(incomingByte);
[21:31] <jdtanner> just two digits
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[21:32] <jdtanner> Done&one big line of numbers ;)
[21:32] <jonsowman> hmm i was hoping that it would print ASCII
[21:33] <jonsowman> hang on
[21:36] <jonsowman> hmm
[21:36] <jdtanner> it was char
[21:36] <jonsowman> Serial.print() should print ASCII
[21:37] <jdtanner> I was defining incomingbyte as an int
[21:37] <jdtanner> not a char
[21:37] <jdtanner> working now :)
[21:37] <jonsowman> excellent
[21:37] <jonsowman> so its printing NMEA happily?
[21:37] <jonsowman> *it's
[21:37] <jdtanner> I owe you chaps beer&yep&nmeay goodness
[21:37] <jdtanner> Finally, I know where I am!
[21:37] <jonsowman> :D
[21:37] <jonsowman> perfect
[21:38] <jdtanner> Funnily enough&I'm at home
[21:38] <jonsowman> shockin
[21:38] <jonsowman> g
[21:38] <jdtanner> I know&news to me!
[21:38] <jonsowman> :)
[21:39] <jdtanner> That is really great
[21:39] <jonsowman> good work
[21:39] <jonsowman> :D
[21:40] <jdtanner> I didn't want to reuse people's code without understanding what was going on&I think the upload of the code was being interrupted by the GPS&which meant it wasn't behaving properly
[21:40] <jdtanner> :)
[21:41] <jonsowman> always best to understand what's going on
[21:41] <jdtanner> I've got the RTTY code all up and running...
[21:41] <jonsowman> you'll thank yourself later
[21:41] <jdtanner> Exactly...
[21:42] <jdtanner> I'm using the hive mind to guide me&but it is really interesting to write my own code :) & with help of course!
[21:42] <jonsowman> it's a great learning experience
[21:42] <jonsowman> totally pays off later
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> I'll try that too!
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:43] <Upu> evening
[21:43] <jdtanner> Exactly&I'd like to be able to help others when they come across these problems in the future
[21:43] <jdtanner> Evening
[21:43] <jonsowman> jdtanner: also for when it happens to you again
[21:43] <Upu> got something working jdtanner ? :)
[21:43] Action: Upu scrolls back
[21:43] <jonsowman> you'll be able to sort it straight away
[21:43] <Upu> wonderful :)
[21:44] <Upu> when do you want to launch ?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu
[21:44] <Upu> give me a weekend in JUne :)
[21:44] <jdtanner> Yeah&had a problem with the Ublox and my daft little arduino&but the helpful chaps from the internets helped out :)
[21:44] <Upu> people from internets are the best people
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/zubegleiter-stiehlt-sessel-von-lokfuehrern-a-836332.html#ref=rss
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> essence is that a conductor stole all that stuff from the trains
[21:45] <jdtanner> We are *still* waiting on the CAA for the launch date& :/
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> also a train radio (not shown)
[21:45] <Upu> just tell him a date you want to launch
[21:45] <Upu> he responds better to that
[21:46] <jdtanner> I think David went back with every weekend in June to August & if so then we'll have a northern field that people can launch from
[21:46] <Upu> yeah keep pestering him
[21:46] <Upu> politely ofc
[21:46] <jdtanner> Always :)
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[21:47] <jonsowman> i spoke to him on the phone the other day, said he's been busy recently
[21:47] <jdtanner> He seems like the rest of us public servants&too much to do&too little time to do it&and the daily mail calling us scum all the time!
[21:47] <jdtanner> :P
[21:48] <Upu> Does anyone read the daily fail any more ?
[21:48] <Upu> don't get me ranting
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> did they call ballooning "getting to space" again?
[21:48] <jdtanner> I really hoped not&but on the York train this morning I counted at least a dozen
[21:49] <jdtanner> Lady Di flies space balloon to Mars, says source close to Prime Minister
[21:49] <jdtanner> I think a Daily Mail headline generator would be a ggreat little project
[21:50] <Upu> she would do jdtanner if the single mother immigrant football players hadn't STOLEN THE MARS!
[21:50] <Upu> Far too slow http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/
[21:50] <LazyLeopard> Taken over from the Sunday Sport, have they?
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much, though with less boobage.
[21:51] <Upu> mildly racist reactionary garbage
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, this one is funny http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/schwaebischer-haumeister-klaut-in-stuttgart-25-tonnen-bueromaterial-a-825307.html
[21:51] <Upu> thats a lot of stolen
[21:51] <jdtanner> WILL FACEBOOK MOLEST YOUR DAUGHTERS?
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> a janitor working for the officials of Stuttgart stole all sorts of office stuff like pens, paper, toilet papers, cleaning machines, ladders and so on, as you can see, that whole stuff amounted to 25 metric tons
[21:52] <jdtanner> wow&that is a lot of bog paper
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> xD if I see it right he also stole phone books
[21:53] <jdtanner> Upu: Stolen the Mars&surely nots
[21:53] <jdtanner> :)
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> do you have that too in england
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> like a phone book for industries and so on
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yellow pages
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> XD http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/schwaebischer-hausmeister-klaut-25-tonnen-bueromaterial-fotostrecke-80620-3.html
[21:54] <jdtanner> Yeah&not that popular anymore&but we do have them :)
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:55] <jdtanner> BTW, are any of you near the Peak District next Wednesday morning at 4am?
[21:56] <Upu> err define close ?
[21:56] <Upu> and it better be epic at 4am I'm talking eclipse or naked women
[21:56] <jdtanner> Transit of venus!
[21:56] <Upu> oh
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, Upu and that one came out today http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/zubegleiter-stiehlt-sessel-von-lokfuehrern-a-836332.html#ref=rss
[21:57] <jdtanner> I'll be hosting a joint National Trust/Peak District national park event on the top of Mam Tor from 4am
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> a conductor stole wallets, train signs, those train driver seats, a train radio and so on
[21:57] <Upu> well looks like they caught him Lunar_Lander
[21:57] <jdtanner> Lunar_Lander: hahaha&I've seen lots of stolen stuff in my time&but never chairs!!!
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> true
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:57] <Upu> sounds good jdtanner
[21:58] <Upu> just a little too early for me :)
[21:58] <jdtanner> Me too!!!
[21:58] <jdtanner> :)
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> "While searching his flat, several special units of the Police were also on scene, as the man had several knives, a sword and a rifle in his flat."
[22:00] <jdtanner> christ&that is my worst fear actually...
[22:01] <jdtanner> and the stab vests we get issued with aren't likely to stop a sword :(
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:02] <jdtanner> yeah...sucks
[22:02] <jdtanner> I wouldn't want to test it!
[22:03] <jdtanner> :)
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> we are just discussing the janitor
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> maybe he is a messie or so that he stole all the office stuff
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> I mean because he also took like the phone books and so on
[22:04] <jdtanner> I think he is almost certainly unwell
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> and that broom collection as well
[22:05] <jdtanner> Maybe he is a witch?
[22:05] <jdtanner> Or likes Quidditch?
[22:05] <jdtanner> ;)
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[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[22:07] <daveake> Damn, I go away working* for 15 mins and I miss the beer :D
[22:07] <daveake> *working on my carpc prog
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:08] <Upu> anything new and shiny on it ?
[22:08] <daveake> Downloading telemetry from habitat
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, I was just watching the music video for Jedward on the eurovision channel (on youtube) and there was a guy with a yellow reflective jacket saying "Paragon" and I just wanted to ask if that is the irish word for police
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> <jdtanner> and the stab vests we get issued with
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> but then I saw the "Security Services" below the word
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> jdtanner is a police officer?
[22:09] <daveake> and keeping the data up to 4 payloads so you can quickly switch between them
[22:09] <Upu> ok cool
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[22:09] Action: Laurenceb_ reconnects via tor
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[22:09] <Upu> heh
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> and no i dont know that sabu guy
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, cause on "Gavin & Stacey" I think I learned that "Heddlu" or so means police in Welsh cause the one guy had "Police/Heddlu" on his motorcycle jacket
[22:10] <daveake> <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, I was just watching the music video for Jedward ...
[22:10] <jdtanner> Laurenceb_: yes, amongst other things :)
[22:10] <daveake> er, why?????
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> XD I like the song actually
[22:12] <jdtanner> Heddlu is Welsh for Police& Garda is Irish for Police I think
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> the 2011 song was crap I think
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> jdtanner: special constable?
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[22:13] <gonzo_> wopuldn't kt be in welsh first?
[22:13] <jdtanner> Laurenceb_: yep, hopefully not for too much longer :)
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> cool
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> KT?
[22:14] <gonzo_> you emigarting?
[22:14] <gonzo_> just can't type
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> lurn 2 spell
[22:14] <jdtanner> Several forces are recruiting now
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> police or military?
[22:14] <gonzo_> need a predictive corrector that will check for keystrokes within a few fat finger widths
[22:15] <daveake> http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mbc/lowres/mbcn558l.jpg
[22:15] <jdtanner> Police
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> I was astonished when I saw ITV once to see a commerical for the special forces of the army
[22:15] <jdtanner> gonzo_: for some reason welsh seems to be second
[22:16] <gonzo_> nice dave
[22:16] <jdtanner> Lunar_Lander: we have a volunteer special forces in the UK as well!
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:16] <gonzo_> not sure if you can apply to go startight in to either
[22:16] <gonzo_> expect you are selected
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> XD daveake
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_ViQfViDPo
[22:17] <jdtanner> I think you might be right...
[22:17] <jdtanner> I've never inquired :)
[22:17] <jdtanner> Laurenceb_: you a bobby?
[22:17] <gonzo_> I did have someone trying to recuit special's. And saif I would if I could do armed response
[22:18] <jdtanner> haha
[22:18] <jdtanner> instafail
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> I like BFBS radio btw
[22:18] <gonzo_> Well I was actuallt serious
[22:19] <jdtanner> I think I've had potential specials say that to me a dozen times over the past few years :)
[22:19] <jdtanner> Most want to go into traffic
[22:20] <gonzo_> well they had a better range than we had
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[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> did anyone of you watch eurovision?
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> gonzo_, jdtanner
[22:27] <jdtanner> Yes, it burned my eyes
[22:27] <jdtanner> :)
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKNRGc71hjc&feature=relmfu
[22:28] <jdtanner> OMG&that was terrible
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> jdtanner: one of my friends from school is a special
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> and that came 2nd!
[22:28] <gonzo_> no tv here
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> he lurks around neighbourhood intimidating people :P
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> *trying to
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> BBC has a funny idea why Engelbert failed
[22:29] <jdtanner> haha&typical bobby
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> mostly looking like a prat
[22:29] <gonzo_> but my sister was flaming facebook with hate for each entry
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> his clothes are the wrong size
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> they said that many people come to the show later on, missing the first contestans
[22:29] <gonzo_> so I had a torrent of emails
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> and he was bullied at school
[22:29] <jdtanner> (oh dear)
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> so its very funny
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> but like later on they repeat all the songs, right?
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> so it sounded like a bad excuse from the BBC
[22:30] <gonzo_> kids who get bullied tend to end up in admin in councils or government. They ret revenge
[22:30] <gonzo_> g
[22:31] <jdtanner> I wish that wasn;t true
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> last time i saw him i had to remind him to fasten his helmet properly :P
[22:31] <jdtanner> You'll be laughing on the other side of your face when he givens you a parking ticket ;P
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:31] <jdtanner> :D
[22:32] <jdtanner> right, thanks for all your help tongiht fellas
[22:32] <jdtanner> tomorrow I attempt to chop up my NMEA sentences
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, one final thing
[22:32] <jdtanner> sure
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxA6TWLttZo&feature=relmfu
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> theres lots of code on the wiki
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> for nmea parsing etc
[22:33] <jdtanner> I'm going to try and reverse engoneer some of it tomorrow :)
[22:33] <jdtanner> Lunar_Lander: are you trying to give me nightmares?
[22:34] <jdtanner> Night night all
[22:34] <jdtanner> :)
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> didn't you like our song?
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[22:35] <jdtanner> I didn;t like any of them :D
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> this one should be good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQRYVsqVT3M
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> sometimes i wonder if im on #youtube
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:45] <Smrtz> So I'm making a bazooka antenna for my balloon, but the guide I followed is a little hard to understand, and the images aren't loading, can someone link me a good guide please?
[22:50] <daveake> Upu: Data grabbed from habitat log - http://i.imgur.com/rVgmF.jpg
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[22:54] <fsphil> neat
[22:55] <daveake> I'll get it to ignore anything non-recent - it's supposed to only be for the payloads I'm chasing
[22:56] <daveake> The idea is, I click on the button for the payload I'm interested in, then it'll show the latest for that (from habitat if I have a net connection, or locally from fldigi if that's more recent)
[22:57] <daveake> Also, I need to get the direction-finding screen to use the selected payload, so it points me to the right one :)
[22:58] <daveake> That's all easy enough. The possibly tricky bit will be handling the net connection going down and coming back up again.
[22:58] <fsphil> it's a good system. it's easy to get bogged down with info
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[22:58] <daveake> But I've done that before for the chase car upload. Should be the same.
[22:58] <daveake> Yep. "Balloon thataway" is what I need :)
[22:59] <fsphil> "You have reached your tree"
[22:59] <daveake> lol
[22:59] <r2x0t> lol
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:59] <daveake> "Payload is 10m away horizontally, and 20m vertically. Deary me"
[23:00] <r2x0t> "Payload is 10m away horizontally, and 20m vertically. Enjoy the climbing!" < fixed
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:00] <daveake> "Payload is 10m away horizontally, and 20m vertically. Get out the saw" < fixed
[23:01] <daveake> I'm helping out a scout group with their HAB project. I have yet to tell them what their vital role will be :p
[23:01] <fsphil> hah
[23:02] <daveake> Though these days H&S probably prohibits kids from climbing trees
[23:05] <daveake> woohoo, it's now grabbing newly uploaded sentences fldigi --> habitat --> carpc
[23:05] <MrScienceMan> what it as kid forbidden to climb a tree...
[23:06] <MrScienceMan> s/it as/is
[23:06] <MrScienceMan> s/it as/is a
[23:06] <fsphil> habitat is cool
[23:06] <daveake> I think I cocked up the rate. -20376.3m/s ...
[23:06] <fsphil> whoops
[23:07] <fsphil> that'll leave a mark
[23:07] <daveake> :)
[23:07] <daveake> -1375
[23:07] <daveake> Much better :p
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[23:08] <daveake> Oh, I know ... the calc uses the time the sentence came in, not the timestamp in the sentence
[23:08] <daveake> I shall fix :)
[23:08] <fsphil> ah ha
[23:08] <fsphil> the timestamps don't include the date
[23:09] <fsphil> should get interesting speeds at 00:00
[23:09] <daveake> So when it gets lots of sentences one after another from habitat ...
[23:09] <daveake> yeah
[23:09] <fsphil> habhound has that flaw
[23:11] <daveake> The web library thing I'm using doesn't seem* to have a function for "these are the new lines I just received", so currently I poll it and pick up the entire web page. Clunky but works, but does mean I have more parsing to do and I have to ignore the stuff I've previously parsed
[23:11] <daveake> *I haven't found it yet
[23:12] <fsphil> you can provide the last sequence id that you've parsed to habitat and it will only return the stuff after that
[23:13] <daveake> Yeah, I have the URL for that. Might do that instead.
[23:14] <daveake> At the mo I have the logtail one open, and leaving it open I get new data as it arrives
[23:14] <fsphil> aah, you're not connecting to habitat directly?
[23:14] <daveake> no no
[23:15] <daveake> dunno how :)
[23:15] <daveake> I just have a web browser thing pointing at 'http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/'
[23:15] <daveake> I feel so dirty
[23:15] <jonsowman> shocking
[23:15] <fsphil> lol
[23:16] <daveake> Perhaps I shuld find out about the one true right way :)
[23:18] <fsphil> it should work the same way
[23:22] <daveake> ta
[23:22] <daveake> rate fixed
[23:22] <daveake> Except thru midnight. I'll ignore that one :)
[23:23] <fsphil> yea, something's gone wrong if you find that an issue :)
[23:23] <daveake> :)
[23:24] <daveake> It's just be the one reading, just after midnight, when it's either a - in a tree, or b - floating
[23:24] <daveake> s/s/d
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[23:30] <fsphil> eek, 00:30am
[23:31] <fsphil> so much for an early night
[23:31] <daveake> time flies when you're coding
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:31] <daveake> I'm off too. nn all.
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 1 2012