highaltitude.log.20120530

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[07:12] <UpuWork> morning
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[08:31] <eroomde> morning UpuWork
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[09:05] <joph> does anyone of you build rc planes?
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[09:11] <joph> i would like to build a glider to make pictures out of heights like 300m
[09:11] <eroomde> diydrones.com is a good place for that kind of thing
[09:11] <joph> on hobbyking there's no declaration of the load they can take
[09:11] <joph> thanks
[09:13] <joph> if I unsterstood it right i need a rc plane and then i put the control circuit from them into this plane so it could be used as drone?
[09:13] <eroomde> yes
[09:14] <joph> my camera has a weight of 240g
[09:14] <joph> is this possible with a glider like this one? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__13994__Phoenix_2000_EPO_Composite_R_C_Glider_Plug_Fly_.html
[09:15] <eroomde> i don't know, you'll have to do some research yourself
[09:16] <joph> maybee i'll take a camera module and then i use the raspberry for this application
[09:16] <WillDuckworth> this plane works well supposedly: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFRU7&P=ML
[09:17] <SamSilver> joph here is an all in one solution http://www.spyhawkfpv.com/
[09:19] <SamSilver> joph: and here is some great footage http://www.youtube.com/spyhawkfpv
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[09:22] <joph> nice
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[10:37] <WillDuckworth> anyone heard from rob h recently? noticed he hasn't been here for awhile (probably not when i'm on anyway) and hasn't signed up to the conference.....
[10:41] <jcoxon> WillDuckworth, he is around and about if you email him
[10:41] <jcoxon> lots of non-balloon stuff going on i think
[10:41] <WillDuckworth> cool - was just being nosey
[10:42] <WillDuckworth> hey jcoxon - i'm debating about dusting off those old gumstix again
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[10:44] <UpuWork> He's very busy at the moment WillDuckworth but is about
[10:44] <jcoxon> WillDuckworth, hehe
[10:44] <UpuWork> spoke to him about 2 weeks ago, work is manic apparently
[10:45] <jcoxon> i still have a gumstix too
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[10:46] <jcoxon> not sure i can bear rebuilding the toolchain though
[10:46] <WillDuckworth> i know - takes ages!
[10:46] <WillDuckworth> then may or may not work
[10:46] <WillDuckworth> cheer upu
[10:46] <WillDuckworth> cheers upuwork
[10:47] Nick change: jlgaddis_ -> jlgaddis
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[10:56] <SpeedEvil> Woo - first Falcon Heavy contract signed.
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> (for the avoidance of doubt, I diddn't buy a launch)
[10:58] <Laurenceb> lol
[10:59] <fsphil> awww
[11:00] <fsphil> that'd have been a more interesting launch if one of use was involved :)
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> I'm up for a kilo to LEO, if anyone wants to buy the other 52999.
[11:02] <daveake> Going for the HAB altitude record? :p
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> I'd like to play with a teeny(ish) magnetically stabilised 'spysat'.
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> Also pulsed plasma thrusters.
[11:03] <Laurenceb> they suck
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> I know.
[11:03] <Laurenceb> solar thermal would be interesting
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> Solar thermal implies deployable balloons.
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure I can do that easily.
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> I think I could just about manage to test pulsed plasma thrusters.
[11:04] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about pulsed solar-electric.
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> (thermal)
[11:05] <Laurenceb> actually no
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> It'd work if LiPo had decent cycle life.
[11:05] <Laurenceb> you can get ~1Km/s with a glass reflector in the back of the sat
[11:05] <Laurenceb> and water
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[11:05] <Laurenceb> with ammonia much better
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> You're unlikely to get permission to launch with ammonia onboard, as a small non-primary payload.
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> Water is probably a bit questionable.
[11:07] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:07] <Laurenceb> unfortunately
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> That's the major advantage of PPT.
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> I think I shall mostly spend the day in bed.
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> I moved way too much insulation yesterday.
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> It's so light that it shouldn't be a problem.
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> But so unwieldy that it is.
[11:10] Action: SpeedEvil ponders his more realisting HAB projects.
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[11:14] <SpeedEvil> Oh - and congrats on teh boarad Laurenceb
[11:15] <kokey> perhaps a nuclear powered electrolysis machine to turn atmospheric water wapor into hydrogen to keep filling balloons in the air
[11:15] <kokey> that kind of more reliastic?
[11:15] <kokey> I think I'm going to reuse 'wapor'
[11:16] <Laurenceb> wabbits
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> That's tricky.
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> It's not impossible - but it's certainly tricky.
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> Oh - nuclear
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> I read solar.
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> There is almost fuck-all water in the high atmosphere.
[11:17] <kokey> ok, perhaps a particle accelerator to create h2 and He?
[11:18] <kokey> please?
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> I suspect not mass efficient.
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Hydrogen generators - Li+H2O - don't look completely insane.
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[11:23] Action: Laurenceb is pissed off
[11:23] <Laurenceb> just tried polishing polycarbonate with brasso
[11:23] <Laurenceb> its takes the nasty crazing off the hammond enclosures
[11:24] <Laurenceb> but now they are kind of milky
[11:28] <Laurenceb> maybe furniture polish or something?
[11:28] <WillDuckworth> honey and salt
[11:29] <Laurenceb> seriously?
[11:29] <WillDuckworth> ah - no that's for brass
[11:29] <eroomde> goats cheese, toast
[11:29] <WillDuckworth> might be worth a try
[11:29] <eroomde> 2 mins under the grill
[11:29] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:29] <Laurenceb> sounds good
[11:29] <Laurenceb> to eat
[11:29] <WillDuckworth> lol
[11:29] <Laurenceb> or just avoid hammond enclosures like hte plague
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> Flame polishing
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> However.
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> First bake at 80C for a day or so - to reduce water absorbtion.
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> Then with a really hot blowtorch flame, run the flame over the polycarbonate at ~1m/s 1cm or so from the PC.
[11:32] Nick change: BrainDam- -> BrainDamage
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> Look carefully for changes in micro-scratches.
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> If no changes, leave it 30s or so, then repeat slower
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> - at a slower flame-speed that is.
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> I've had really good results with this method on safety glasses.
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[11:35] <Laurenceb> interesting
[11:35] <Laurenceb> maybe combine with brasso for the larger scratches
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> It works for surprisingly large scratches
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[11:49] <daveake> I've got some plastic polish that works quite well. 3 bottles of varying abrasiveness.
[11:52] <Laurenceb> whats it called?
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[12:05] <daveake> Novus
[12:05] <daveake> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Novus-plastic-polish-8oz-237ml/dp/B005F2ZX0U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338379541&sr=8-1
[12:06] <nick_> The mbed people are being cool :)
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[12:30] <WillDuckworth> quick general question: what lab bench power supplies do people use for testing kit? mine's ok but only works in half volts and nothing below 1 volt - which is a pain.
[12:31] <eroomde> on my desk i have a gw instek gpc-1850D
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Why does below 1V help?
[12:31] <eroomde> it's a dual supply, 0-18V, 0-5A, and a fixed 5v output
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> If you can current limit - the need for below 1V seems questionable
[12:31] <eroomde> below 1V is useful for lots of things
[12:31] <WillDuckworth> doing some step up stuff
[12:32] <eroomde> in the lab we have some agilent stuff
[12:32] <eroomde> which is all very nice but probably not so hobby-friendly
[12:32] <WillDuckworth> yeah - a few pennies required
[12:33] <daveake> I have a £60-ish thing from CPC, which is fine, with LCD readout of V and I. If I wasn't paying the 2 things I'd want are coarse/fine knobs for voltage, and some sort of voltage lock to stop accidental happenings
[12:33] <eroomde> if you want A Project then eev blog has been doing an open source digital lab power supply
[12:33] <eroomde> i'd get a dual one too if you can
[12:33] <eroomde> just makes anything with op-amps so much easier to test
[12:33] <eroomde> as you can easily do +/- 15V or whatever
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> It raises the question of if you want an all-in-one PSU, or if you are happy to build a little LDO thingy for a pound or two that does 0-2V
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.rapidonline.com/SearchResults.aspx?kw=85-1851
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> I have
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Works well
[12:34] <WillDuckworth> cool - thanks for info - might have to crack open the wallet
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> I also have an old 0-150v PSU, which is used for stuff that needs 2 rails, along with the above
[12:34] <daveake> Julie reckons my HAB budget could keep Greece afloat
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:35] <r2x0t> lol
[12:35] <WillDuckworth> lol
[12:36] <eroomde> this is the one i have: http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrical-Power/Professional-dual-variable-output-PSU-with-fixed-5V-62152
[12:36] <eroomde> old faithful
[12:37] <WillDuckworth> v smart
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[12:38] <eroomde> as i say, the dual supply definitely comes in useful
[12:38] <eroomde> especially for instrumentation, specifically anything bridgey
[12:39] <daveake> Mine - http://cpc.farnell.com/_/in05523/power-supply-bench-lcd-30v-3a/dp/IN05523?Ntt=IN0552305&whydiditmatch=clone&matchedProduct=IN0552305 <cheapskate>
[12:39] <eroomde> like pressure sensors or load cells
[12:39] <daveake> Also have an older one with separate 5 and 12V fixed outputs
[12:39] <taskermilward> Hi can anyone help me? I am starting dl-fldigi and am unable to get flight modes in the drop down box. Have I got a config setting wrong?
[12:40] <Darkside> are you online?
[12:40] <Darkside> as in, are you running dl-fldigi on teh same machine you're on now?
[12:41] <taskermilward> The online box is ticked in the DL client window and I am online to you guys on the same machine now.
[12:41] <Darkside> hrm
[12:41] <Darkside> it should download them i guess
[12:41] <Darkside> not sure why it wouldn't work
[12:41] <daveake> Try DL Client --> Refresh Payload Data
[12:42] <taskermilward> It has in the past but has stopped today. I have unistalled and reinstalled but still no change!
[12:42] <daveake> Though the list should be populated anyway
[12:42] <fsphil> odd, all good here
[12:42] <daveake> ditto
[12:42] <taskermilward> tried the refresh payload data still no joy
[12:43] <daveake> I know this stuff changed - recent versions only show active payloads. Maybe that's it?
[12:43] <daveake> I still run an old version
[12:44] <taskermilward> Which version are you on I will give that a try?
[12:44] <fsphil> the allpayloads.php page is taking its time loading from Robs server
[12:44] <fsphil> could be that
[12:44] <daveake> 3.20.29
[12:45] <fsphil> yea blank screen
[12:45] <taskermilward> Thanks guys I will try reinstalling the older version and see if that is my problem. Catch you soon
[12:45] <fsphil> you'll need to use the beta taskermilward
[12:46] <fsphil> https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi/downloads
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[13:06] <eroomde> nick_: yo
[13:08] <nick_> Hi
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[13:12] <eroomde> i had a friend at uni who thought exams were insulting to his subject so didn't do them, only ever at rice and used to go on 3 day valium-powered walks in a random direction without shoes
[13:12] <eroomde> and say odd things
[13:12] <eroomde> now on FB he's saying he just spent £320 on headphones and generally sounds like an investment banker
[13:12] <eroomde> graduation does some very wierd things to people
[13:13] <fsphil> also drugs
[13:14] <eroomde> i think he's off everything now
[13:14] <eroomde> maybe he was like this all along
[13:14] <gonzo__> I've known people like that, they are intollerable when straight
[13:14] <eroomde> it was just malnutrition and painkillers all the way through uni
[13:15] <nick_> Completely changing your social circle gives you the opportunity to reinvent yourself
[13:15] <eroomde> he's kept us, unfortunatly for him
[13:15] <eroomde> the eng-lit crowd are all living in bethnal green etc now
[13:15] <eroomde> i was token.
[13:16] <gonzo__> I enjoyed uni, but towards the end I had gotten tired of sahring houses with problem people
[13:16] <eroomde> i don't think max would have been too bad to share with
[13:16] <eroomde> no fridge space
[13:17] <eroomde> gone for days at a time
[13:17] <eroomde> the odd strange conversation
[13:17] <eroomde> he works for groupon now. nuff said
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[13:17] <gonzo__> I had the hallway as a private rifle range. People used to have to shoute 'cease fire' when they wanted to go to the bog
[13:18] <eroomde> what were you shooting?
[13:18] <gonzo__> just the airgun into a pile of phone directories
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[13:19] <taskermilward> Hi guys can you explain to me how to register a flight on the nearspace tracker
[13:19] <eroomde> and you found the other people difficult to share with?
[13:20] <gonzo__> well 'I' was normal. Normal to me anyway
[13:22] <gonzo__> taskermilward, go to http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[13:23] <gonzo__> Though you may need to ask for guidence here. (as I did)
[13:25] <griffonbot> Received email: T Zaman "[UKHAS] Stuff for sale"
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[13:26] <eroomde> sad news from tim
[13:26] <WillDuckworth> tis indeed
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[13:27] <jonsowman> 250 eur for an 817nd
[13:27] <jonsowman> bargain
[13:28] <eroomde> sure is
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[13:34] <taskermilward> thanks
[13:37] <MrScienceMan> im wondering if keymonth 1200 would be enough if i want to lift 1500g up above 30km
[13:37] <jonsowman> MrScienceMan: http://cusf.co.uk/calc
[13:37] <UpuWork> http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[13:37] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Stuff for sale"
[13:37] <UpuWork> dang too slow
[13:37] <jonsowman> haha
[13:37] <MrScienceMan> :D
[13:37] <gonzo__> snap
[13:38] <MrScienceMan> calc says it would go 32000m
[13:38] <MrScienceMan> just unsure how accurate that is
[13:38] <jonsowman> it's pretty good
[13:38] <jonsowman> but you have to be sure to give it precise and accurate parameters
[13:39] <jonsowman> and stick to them when you fill
[13:39] <eroomde> variation comes from your ability to accurately put helium in the balloon, and the balloon age and manufacturing quality
[13:39] <gonzo__> I didn't think that 817 would take long to go!
[13:39] <nick_> How do you control how much you fill a balloon?
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Tie a bottle of known weight to it
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> And adjust for neutral bouyancy
[13:40] <jonsowman> gonzo__: yeah same
[13:40] <nick_> Makes sense
[13:40] <jonsowman> nick_: that's what the "neck lift" parameter is
[13:40] <Darkside> we use fish scales
[13:40] <jonsowman> Darkside: they're alright but worse when it's windy
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Being aware that balloons have non-zero lift in wind.
[13:40] <jonsowman> mass flow meter is clearly where it's at
[13:40] <Darkside> we fill inside
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> ^restrained balloons
[13:41] <Darkside> jonsowman: yeah, if you have $$$ or a kind donor
[13:41] <jonsowman> hehe
[13:41] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[13:41] <eroomde> everyone can have a kind donor
[13:41] <Darkside> i think terry looked at getting one a while ado
[13:41] <eroomde> it's just a question of asking right
[13:41] <Darkside> and they were a few thousand $$
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> I guess scales that accurately measure the bottle weight are going to be prohibitive
[13:41] <jonsowman> yeah the list price of ours is about £4000 iirc
[13:42] <jonsowman> it's on permanent loan though, not technically ours
[13:42] <jonsowman> they're not cheap
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> you'd want a resolution of what - 1g or so in ...
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> How much does a cylinder weigh?
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> 30kg?
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[13:42] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: the L-type ones we use are 70kg ish
[13:42] <jonsowman> those are the biggest though
[13:42] <Darkside> jeez you use those nes?
[13:42] <Darkside> we use the 3.6m^3 ones
[13:43] <jonsowman> we don't have to move them far
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> jonsowman: Fortunate!
[13:43] <eroomde> we had to use 3 od the 70kg cyclinders for one of our flights
[13:43] <jonsowman> we could get T if we wanted, no reason why not
[13:43] <Darkside> neither do we, but we just want ours to fit in our car
[13:43] <Darkside> you get them delivered to your store location don't you
[13:43] <jonsowman> yeah
[13:43] <eroomde> yep
[13:43] <jonsowman> we just have to walk them 100 yards up the road
[13:43] <Darkside> yeah, we have to put ours in the back of a car
[13:43] <jonsowman> which is fine apart from the speed bumps
[13:44] <nick_> How much space do you need for a launch site.
[13:44] <Darkside> one of our team made up a carrier for his hilux, fits 2 of the 3.6m^3 tahks in the back
[13:44] <eroomde> a field
[13:44] <nick_> eroomde: do you know the uni parks? Could you launch there?
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> nick_: If you're happy to wait for no wind - a back garden is fine.
[13:44] <eroomde> we took 3 x 9m^3 bottles in the back of the hilux
[13:44] <eroomde> they fit perfectly on the bed
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Otherwise - to launch in any nonzero wind - you need a large flat area
[13:44] <eroomde> nick_: yes that's be fine
[13:44] <Darkside> eroomde: heh
[13:45] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah, we have a box we tie ours down into
[13:45] <Darkside> i think i tweeted ap ic
[13:45] <nick_> It'd be nice to fill them in our ~insidish workshop area where we store our gases and just walk the balloon down the road to the park.
[13:45] <eroomde> i think you might struggle to get the notam tho
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Just make the top of the workshop slide off.
[13:45] <nick_> The bottom slides off, does that help?
[13:45] <eroomde> nick_: i'm going to this SQA lecture a week today in the physics dept infact
[13:45] <Darkside> eroomde: http://yfrog.com/h4wwyytjj
[13:46] <nick_> SQA?
[13:46] <eroomde> SKA*
[13:46] <nick_> OK
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> nick_: It helps if you have enough lift to do the whole shed :)
[13:46] <nick_> SKA is interesting.
[13:46] <Darkside> eroomde: ah!
[13:46] <nick_> They announced a dual site plan.
[13:46] <Darkside> they didn't ake a decision
[13:46] <Darkside> heh
[13:46] <eroomde> http://www2.physics.ox.ac.uk/events/2012/06/06/the-inaugural-wetton-lecture-giant-telescopes-of-the-future-professor-roger-davies
[13:46] <eroomde> this one ^
[13:46] <nick_> OK
[13:46] <Darkside> dual site plan, aka not upsetting any one country too much
[13:46] <jonsowman> there's something very satisfying about pushing DIP ICs into holders
[13:47] <nick_> A few months back I went to the UK Cherenkov Telesecope Array meeting
[13:47] <nick_> Someone gave us a talk about SKA
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I've wondered about if it would be plausible to split the array the other way.
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Of course - that's going to mean prohibitive volumes of data
[13:47] <nick_> The data rates are already insane
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[13:47] <eroomde> what do you mean the other way?
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Half of the same frequency in each country
[13:48] <gonzo__> NOTIFICATION OF GPS JAMMING EXERCISES SALISBURY PLAIN, WILTSHIRE, July 2012
[13:48] <gonzo__>
[13:48] <gonzo__> Dates: Between the 2nd of July and the 11th of July 2012 (Weekdays only).
[13:48] <gonzo__> not sure if that will affect any flights planned around then
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[13:49] <Darkside> should have been australia for both parts.. we don't have issues with people stealing copper here
[13:49] <nick_> REally?
[13:49] <nick_> We do in the UK
[13:49] <Darkside> nick_: the SKA site here is hundreds of km from any population center
[13:50] <MrScienceMan> till you /fq 12
[13:50] <nick_> So there's noone to catch you!
[13:50] <MrScienceMan> opss
[13:51] <Darkside> http://goo.gl/maps/XVYw
[13:52] <nick_> At my old lab they found someone stealing copper when they took a series of overhead photos.
[13:53] <nick_> The lab director wanted to put the photos in time order based on a boat moving on the canal
[13:53] <nick_> And spotted someone driving up to an unused experimental area, coming out with a bundle of cables and driving off.
[13:54] <daveake> grrrr... cheap 817ND ... grrr .... already bought a new one .... grrrrr .... :)
[13:55] <Darkside> you UKers and your obsession with yaesu products
[13:55] <Darkside> CUSF people exempt of course, they chose the right option and bought an Icom Ic-7000 :-)
[13:55] <jonsowman> CUSF own both
[13:55] <eroomde> x 3
[13:55] <jonsowman> and a 790R
[13:56] <jonsowman> and many other random things
[13:56] <Darkside> project horus uses Icoms exclusively :P
[13:56] <UpuWork> IC-7000 is twice as much as a 817
[13:56] <eroomde> twice as sexy tho
[13:56] <nick_> Do people usually track from a static location or can you track while chasing?
[13:56] <Darkside> 2 of the chase cars use IC-706MKIIg's, the other uses a Icom IC-R7000
[13:56] <Darkside> i use a IC-7000
[13:56] <UpuWork> yeah agreed on that
[13:56] <Darkside> nick_: lol
[13:56] <Darkside> nick_: let me get the pictures
[13:56] <eroomde> the ic-7000 is great when the signals starts getting difficult
[13:56] <jonsowman> nick_: track whilst chasing
[13:56] <eroomde> there are more knobs
[13:56] <Darkside> you UK guys have nothing on our chase cars
[13:57] <eroomde> you can keep on fighting to get something decodable
[13:57] <nick_> I was thinking about a chase motorcycle
[13:57] <UpuWork> you have chase trucks Darkside
[13:57] <daveake> lol
[13:57] <UpuWork> some might say "overkill"
[13:57] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2011-05-21_Foxhunting_Prep/
[13:57] <Darkside> theres one of them
[13:57] <UpuWork> yeah yeah you see we do the same on less
[13:58] <UpuWork> we are more efficient in the UK
[13:58] <UpuWork> less power
[13:58] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ST8_0836.jpg
[13:58] <UpuWork> less kit in cars
[13:58] <Darkside> theres the 3 main chase cars, and a ring-in
[13:58] <UpuWork> See : http://ava.upuaut.net/files/habmobile.jpg
[13:58] <UpuWork> same thing
[13:58] <Darkside> well they were designed for radio direction finding, not ballooning
[13:58] <UpuWork> but less shit and wires everywhere
[13:58] <Darkside> they just happen to be really good for ballooning too
[13:58] <jonsowman> http://www.camb-hams.com/flossie
[13:58] <UpuWork> lol jonsowman
[13:58] <Darkside> the amplified cross-dipole is EXCELLENT
[13:59] <Darkside> also we're all switching to cross dipoles for tracking over here
[13:59] <Darkside> well, for chase car tracking
[13:59] <Darkside> we're sick of having problems while in the null
[13:59] <Darkside> esp with terry's new 'easy ground plane' payloads, that act more like a dipole than a 1/4 wave
[14:00] <jonsowman> is that its tradename?
[14:00] <Darkside> :P
[14:00] <Darkside> its where he runs the wires up teh side of the payload
[14:00] <Darkside> instead of having them at 90 degrees to the main radial
[14:00] <jonsowman> i've not seen terry on here in a long time
[14:00] <Darkside> it screws up the radiation pattern, more goes out to the horizon
[14:00] <Darkside> juxta: yo
[14:01] <Darkside> lemme find a pic of the antennas we use now..
[14:01] <Darkside> actually
[14:01] <Darkside> https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0ASjjb1CUQvqPZGMzOXNicmRfNjFobWRyNzhnOQ
[14:01] <Darkside> just look at that
[14:02] <Darkside> thats the presentation we gave at the WIA AGM, our equiv of the RSGB
[14:02] <jonsowman> :)
[14:02] <Darkside> we even mentioned you guys in teh talk :P
[14:03] <Darkside> mentioned CUSF a LOT
[14:03] <jonsowman> :)
[14:03] <jonsowman> terry helped me loads when i was doing the new landing predictor
[14:03] <Darkside> i must admit, our in-car prediction is fucking awesome.
[14:04] <Darkside> its our ace in the hole for tracking
[14:04] <UpuWork> i think daveake is catching you up
[14:04] <Darkside> means we don't need to rely on net at all.
[14:04] <UpuWork> we are almost close to being at the landing site when it comes down
[14:04] <UpuWork> same as daveake's
[14:04] <Darkside> like, last launch we wer eoutside of net range for almost the entire flight
[14:04] <Darkside> :P
[14:04] <Darkside> yeah daves system is cool
[14:05] <Darkside> i need to write an interface to the doppler DF system in the landcruiser
[14:05] <Darkside> so it can show the balloon bearing
[14:05] <eroomde> ooooh a rumble of thunder
[14:05] <Darkside> UpuWork: you're getting closer to the landing thing
[14:06] <eroomde> the promised debt collectors for the spectacular weather are funally arriving
[14:06] <Darkside> but you guys are hampered by speed limits and villages
[14:06] <Darkside> we have wide open country (though that has it own problems)
[14:06] <Darkside> like, lack of roads
[14:07] <daveake> UpuWork :)
[14:07] <UpuWork> we saw it last time
[14:07] <Darkside> then again, who needs roads: http://i.imgur.com/1xGR3.jpg
[14:07] <Darkside> :-)
[14:08] <UpuWork> trouble is in the UK we have these "roads" and "trees" whereas you have "spiders" and "snakes"
[14:08] <daveake> Last 2 launches we've taken Julie's car as I can't fit a large cylinder in mine. Next flight (9th June hopefully) I should be back on my car
[14:08] <Darkside> naw
[14:08] <UpuWork> my point entirely
[14:08] <Darkside> snakes run away from you
[14:08] <daveake> trees run towards payloads
[14:08] <Darkside> slither*
[14:08] <Darkside> haha
[14:08] <Darkside> trees
[14:08] <UpuWork> lol
[14:08] <Darkside> we have trees
[14:08] <Darkside> did you see how our last payload landed?
[14:08] <Darkside> http://bogaurd.net/~alan/Darkside/IMG_7943%20(Resized).JPG
[14:09] <Darkside> each payload was between trees
[14:09] <UpuWork> stretched between 2 trees ?
[14:09] <Darkside> the other guys had the opposite, each payload was IN the tree, with string going ebtween them
[14:09] <Darkside> UpuWork: multiple trees
[14:09] <UpuWork> nice
[14:09] <Darkside> http://bogaurd.net/~alan/Darkside/IMG_7941%20(Resized).JPG
[14:09] <Darkside> theres the APRS
[14:09] <Darkside> http://bogaurd.net/~alan/Darkside/IMG_7944%20(Resized).JPG
[14:09] <Darkside> and the gopro
[14:10] <UpuWork> yeah saw that
[14:10] <daveake> Good job a tree jumped in front of ava/cloud, saving it from electricity lines
[14:10] <UpuWork> yeah that was VERY close
[14:10] <Darkside> bah
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[14:10] <Darkside> yeah, this is why we haven't done HF in a while
[14:10] <Darkside> landing on powerlines could be very very bad
[14:10] <UpuWork> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203AvaLaunch2AvaPayloadRawPhotos4#5728381402549461218
[14:10] <Darkside> we've come very very close though
[14:11] <UpuWork> note a very small 2E0UPU bottom right
[14:11] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/gallery/2012-01-20_Horus_21/2012-01-20%2017.45.33.jpg
[14:11] <Darkside> ouch
[14:11] <Darkside> yeah you guys have big trees
[14:12] <UpuWork> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/Photo0052.jpg
[14:12] <Darkside> we don't have that problem as much
[14:12] <Darkside> last launch was interesting though, we had to use HF to report back to base about payload recovery
[14:12] <Darkside> was good fun
[14:13] <Darkside> finally got to use the codan manpack properly
[14:13] <Darkside> http://imgur.com/Iaouj,VSYzZ
[14:14] <UpuWork> that is a beast
[14:15] <Darkside> eha?
[14:15] <Darkside> the manpack?
[14:15] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/VSYzZ.jpg
[14:15] <Darkside> its not that big
[14:15] <Darkside> doesn't weight that much either, which is cool
[14:16] <Darkside> i was all setup to hike with it too
[14:17] <fsphil> it's good terrain for HF there, no real sources of noise
[14:17] <Darkside> yep
[14:17] <Darkside> S0 noise floor
[14:17] <Darkside> was beautiful - i'm going up to a similar area in a few weekends for a gliding trip, will be bringing all my HF kit :-)
[14:17] <fsphil> sweet
[14:18] <fsphil> I'm gonna bring the 817 to carnes
[14:18] <fsphil> not as isolated though
[14:18] <Darkside> do you have a tuner for it?
[14:19] <fsphil> I have but it's too big to bring, need to get something more portable
[14:19] <Darkside> and do you have a CEPT T/R 61-01 compliant licence
[14:19] <fsphil> I will have soon
[14:19] <fsphil> hopefully
[14:19] <Darkside> cool
[14:19] <Darkside> should be able to use your license in australia then
[14:19] <eroomde> fsphil: do you have a link to a lightning map?
[14:19] <fsphil> I can use 2m there with my current license
[14:19] <eroomde> someone on here did
[14:19] <Darkside> fsphil: really?
[14:19] <eroomde> just watch the cell just engulf us
[14:19] <Darkside> i thought you had to be advanced to be able to do anything overseas
[14:20] <eroomde> the horshoe of cloudy tendrils almost touching the ground, sweeping down the plain towards us
[14:20] <fsphil> eroomde: http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php
[14:20] <eroomde> and now it's hailing
[14:20] <eroomde> i really think i could have times a storm-hab perfectly
[14:20] <eroomde> timed*
[14:20] <eroomde> i don't think a storm hab has been done yet either
[14:20] <fsphil> Darkside: yea I was reading about it in radcom last week, foundation and intermediate UK licences can be used on 2m there
[14:21] <Darkside> cool
[14:21] <fsphil> the opposite may be true too
[14:21] <fsphil> not sure
[14:22] <Darkside> pretty sure it isnt
[14:22] <Darkside> i know with my full-call i can just rock up and start caling
[14:22] <Darkside> i think i have to prefix my callsign with a M
[14:22] <Darkside> M/VK5QI
[14:22] <Darkside> or VK5QI/M, not sure
[14:23] <fsphil> prefix
[14:23] <Darkside> i'll probably just say "this is VK5QI portable UK"
[14:23] <fsphil> I've seen a few people doing it
[14:23] <fsphil> yea I don't think anyone's going to fuss
[14:23] <Darkside> will be fun with APRS, as i'm going to get gated out back here
[14:23] <Darkside> as the local igates use a callsign mask :-)
[14:24] <Darkside> VK5*
[14:24] <Darkside> not enough space in teh APRS standard to fit a M/, so i'll have to leave it as VK5QI
[14:24] <fsphil> that's right, they use a fixed lenght callsign
[14:33] <Darkside> yes, 6 characters max
[14:33] <griffonbot> Received email: T Zaman "[UKHAS] Re: Stuff for sale"
[14:33] <jonsowman> wow
[14:33] <jonsowman> that was quick
[14:33] <griffonbot> Received email: T Zaman "[UKHAS] Re: Stuff for sale"
[14:34] <fsphil> hah
[14:34] <fsphil> ah well
[14:34] <fsphil> I don't need another yagi
[14:34] <daveake> 2 weeks earlier and I'd have been in quick on the 817
[14:34] <jonsowman> i don't need any of it lol
[14:35] <daveake> Since when did "need" have anything to do with HAB expenditure? :p
[14:35] <jonsowman> lol
[14:38] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Stuff for sale"
[14:54] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[14:58] <Laurenceb> snuff for sale?
[14:58] <jonsowman> ssssh
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[15:03] <Laurenceb> http://www.professionalplastics.com/Borotron-Borated-Polyetheylene
[15:03] <Laurenceb> aha
[15:04] <Laurenceb> i will start work on my reactor immediately
[15:04] <chris_99> what kind of reactor Laurenceb , sounds interesting!
[15:05] <russss> borotron!
[15:05] <Laurenceb> sounds like radioactive mans dog
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[15:13] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "[UKHAS] Brightwalton Launches 9th or 10th June"
[15:14] <nick_> How far in advance do you have to apply for launch permission?
[15:14] <jonsowman> give it a couple of months usually
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[15:14] <daveake> 28 days in theory
[15:14] <daveake> In practice, for your first, add some
[15:14] <jonsowman> yeah, officially 28 days
[15:14] <daveake> After that it seems easier
[15:15] <daveake> And definitely call during the week before launch to make sure it's happening
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[15:16] <daveake> Last time, the first I knew about the permission was when a pilot called about it :)
[15:16] <nick_> Is there a map of where you can/cannot launch from?
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[15:18] <eroomde> no
[15:18] <Laurenceb> 28 days later
[15:18] <eroomde> but central oxford would not be easy to get
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Ah - ice-cream van.
[15:18] <WillDuckworth> hey daveake - thanks for the mention - you plough on :)
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Shame it's tipping it down, and is about 9C now.
[15:19] <daveake> Just a reminder in case we need to arg.... talk about frequencies :)
[15:19] <UpuWork> :)
[15:19] <WillDuckworth> :)
[15:19] <UpuWork> Reminds me Euroquartz never did get back to me
[15:19] <eroomde> i got given a pop science book last christmas (I wish relative's wouldn't...)
[15:19] <daveake> btw UpuWork I see Radiometrix still haven't used those pics
[15:19] <eroomde> daveake will like this
[15:19] <eroomde> We need to talk about Kelvin
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> hah
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> Kelvin was cool.
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> Solitons!
[15:20] <Laurenceb> he was a pretty cool guy
[15:21] <daveake> absolutely
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[15:24] <UpuWork> daveake not sure they will use them tbh
[15:25] <daveake> nah, I doubt it too
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[15:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Re: Brightwalton Launches 9th or 10th June"
[15:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Re: Anyone want to piggyback payloads?"
[15:55] <UpuWork> cuddykid
[15:55] <cuddykid> hi :)
[15:56] <UpuWork> have a good chat with him about what he wants to do before you make an offer like that :)
[15:56] <UpuWork> http://news.yahoo.com/reagent-supports-space-balloon-project-073753335.html
[15:56] <cuddykid> oh.. lol
[15:57] <UpuWork> basically your payload will be p?ssing paint over Southern England
[15:57] Action: cuddykid imagines people getting rained down on
[15:57] <cuddykid> thanks for heads up - If he's happy, I'll talk to him about it
[15:57] <fsphil> Red sky at night, Josh has done a flight
[15:57] <cuddykid> doubt if he'll come up to worcs though
[15:59] <fsphil> I do worry about where the chemicals will end up
[15:59] <cuddykid> yeah, I wouldn't like to have them fall on my head..
[15:59] <chris_99> yeah that sounds kind of strange
[15:59] <chris_99> surely you'd need a LOT of paint for anything to show up
[15:59] <chris_99> in a photo
[16:00] <chris_99> do they just expect to take a photo of the paint shooting out
[16:02] <fsphil> it might end up just covering the lens
[16:04] <fsphil> if it doesn't fall too quickly it might show up against the black sky quite nicely
[16:06] <nick_> Woot
[16:07] <nick_> Looks like my detector can detect signals from my radiation source
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[16:11] <number10> I think anyone thinking of getting involved in a balloon project that may release reagents in the air should read the chemicals environmental legislation
[16:12] <nick_> As a punishment?
[16:12] <jonsowman> lol
[16:12] <BrainDamage> for once the chemtrails paranoid would get lucky
[16:13] <BrainDamage> or better, more than lucky, right
[16:13] <number10> yes
[16:13] <number10> lol
[16:14] <BrainDamage> maybe it should drop some magic blue ice from the sky
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[17:06] <SamSilver> I got the followng results from cusf burst calculator > http://imgur.com/a/vTQ9K
[17:07] <SamSilver> the fill volume is the same in both cases yet despite half the mass the difference in height is just 1m
[17:07] <SamSilver> How come??
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[17:20] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver__
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[17:27] <Bob_G8NSV> Hi All
[17:28] <Bob_G8NSV> Evening everybody
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[18:28] <upix> Have anyone experience problems with rfm22 when it would reset/randomize it's settings. Most often this happens just after i send transmit packet, it gives a short impulse to the receiver and stops (while some other times it works properly) until I resend configuration again.
[18:29] <upix> random settings mean, that after I set them, read i get correct value for some time, then it changes to some other value (without sending any configuration) and stays like it for a while
[18:30] <upix> wen through all of the datasheet and didn't find anything relevant
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[18:35] <upix> I am running with atmega16 and all output to rfm (SCK, MOSI, nSel) goes through resistor divider ~3/5 to convert voltage levels and MISO goes straight, but wiith 3,6 stabilitron just in case
[18:36] <upix> Could this cause any troubles
[18:36] <upix> Because I am getting desperate on this
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[18:42] <jcoxon> upix, maybe power suppply issues?
[18:42] <jcoxon> odd that it would have random settings
[18:42] <jcoxon> it should hold them unless it loses power
[18:44] <upix> I'm using PC PSU
[18:44] <upix> and atmega doesnt reboot
[18:45] <upix> I would think that it's power issues if it wouldn't get random settings
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[18:49] <upix> I am also doing this on breadboard and there are quite some connectors, so I though maybe they could act as antena and give some false signals or something, but tried shielding them all with no effect
[18:50] <jcoxon> yes that might be related
[18:50] <jcoxon> its certainly sensitive to noise
[18:50] <fsphil> does it happen if you lower the power level?
[18:51] <upix> I have done tests with different power levels earlier with no success, but that had a bit different setup
[18:51] <upix> I will try that now
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[18:59] <upix> ah gotta restart pc
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[19:08] <upix> nope
[19:08] <upix> doesn't work
[19:10] <jcoxon> hmmm
[19:11] <upix> http://pastie.org/3997090
[19:11] <upix> output from microcontroller
[19:11] <upix> N means settings resent
[19:11] <upix> three lines just test reading
[19:11] <upix> the next lines are test sessions
[19:11] <jcoxon> whats your micro?
[19:12] <upix> atmega16
[19:12] <jcoxon> straight AVR or with arduino
[19:12] <upix> straight
[19:12] <upix> well c if that's straight enough for you :)
[19:12] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:14] <fsphil> haha
[19:16] <upix> anyway about the pastie thing, the first hex means rfm register 0x71 a- lots of short on off pulses b - pause, c-long TX pulse, d - pause, next hex is 0x71 register again and the last hex is 0x07 register value just after the 'c' section it should be 0x08 if rfm was in TX mode at that time
[19:16] <upix> and you can see that 0x71 gets reset
[19:17] <upix> while during that time only commands sent is rf22_write(0x07, 0x08) and rf22_write(0x07, 0x01);
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[19:22] <Broliv> Evening everyone
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[19:52] <mclane> question to the balloon launchers: my payload weight is about 800 g (everything without balloon). is a Hyowee 800 g balloon sufficient for a launch up to 30 km (at least beyond 20 km)?
[19:53] <mclane> According to the ukhas burst calculator that should work
[19:55] <jcoxon> yeah that should be okay
[19:55] <jcoxon> certainly above 20km
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[20:00] <mclane> I am just testing tracking with a cheap usb DVB t dongle and gqrx (sw defined radio) - that really works pretty nicely
[20:01] <mclane> so no more expensive ham radio ssb receiver needed any more
[20:01] <mclane> if that proves out to be sensitive enough with a reasonable antenna
[20:02] <mclane> someone has experience with such kind of setup in "real live"?
[20:03] <jcoxon> mclane, jonsowman used one last weekend for the eurus flight
[20:03] <jcoxon> pretty good
[20:03] <jcoxon> not as good as trad radios
[20:04] <jcoxon> but if you've got others tracking that shouldn't be a problem
[20:04] <jcoxon> need a good antenna
[20:04] <jcoxon> (well placed)
[20:05] <mclane> i plan to use a j-pole on the roof of my house
[20:05] <jcoxon> good plan
[20:05] <mclane> just got the material to build one
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[21:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/566529665-Best-Price-GY-86-10DOF-MS5611-HMC5883L-MPU6050-module-MWC-flight-control-sensor-module-wholesalers.html
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> Cheap ImU is cheap
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> wow
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> no wait
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> mpu6050 accel is piss poor
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> other than that nice sensors
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> how pisspoor - I don't recall it.
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> worse than adxl345
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=26&zenid=fd8cedea06414a1e1ce63d4d368e210e
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> some proper kit
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> wht is 4000 yen?\
[21:25] <BrainDamage> ~40¬
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> that baro is amazingly good
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> but only 12euros direct from the manufacturer
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[21:28] <Laurenceb_> theres a newer naze with freescale accel but it doesnt seem to be online yet
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[21:39] <Laurenceb_> its made with the finest of troll technology
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[21:41] <Laurenceb_> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23avr/2011-11-14.html
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> search for timecop
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[22:13] <jcoxon> ping Darkside
[22:13] <jcoxon> can i clear the tracker
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[23:04] <Broliv> night all
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[00:00] --- Thu May 31 2012