highaltitude.log.20120528

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[07:23] <jcoxon> morning
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[07:25] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
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[08:09] <gonzo_> mornin peoples
[08:11] <gonzo_> beed out of the loop, what was the latest on eurus
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[08:17] <G0DJA> GM Gonzo - It stopped transmitting yesterday morning over Ireland, probably when the transmitter power was increased, and I don't think it has been heard from since
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[08:22] <jcoxon> yeah thats our conclusion
[08:22] <jcoxon> fsphil made a recording
[08:22] <jcoxon> you can hear it start to tx rtty and then it dies
[08:22] <jcoxon> probably too much power for the little radio in a vacuum
[08:27] <gonzo_> how long did it take to dia after going qro?
[08:29] <jcoxon> about 5 seconds
[08:29] <gonzo_> that sounds a bit quick for an overheating prob
[08:29] <gonzo_> suppose that was too short to get batt voltages back in the telem
[08:30] <gonzo_> well it did well anyway. A good float.
[08:31] <fsphil> best flight path ever I think :)
[08:31] <Darkside> lol
[08:31] <Darkside> esp for you
[08:31] <Darkside> evening all
[08:32] <fsphil> yea I finally get to track something up close and it self destructs :)
[08:32] <Darkside> haha
[08:32] <Darkside> well we sure had fun
[08:32] <Darkside> were WELL outside of phone coverage
[08:32] <Darkside> like, a good 150km away from the nearest tower
[08:33] <Darkside> had to use HF to inform base that we were successful
[08:33] <fsphil> how'd that go?
[08:33] <Darkside> both recovered
[08:33] <Darkside> took us a while to get into ours
[08:34] <Darkside> had to bushbash through dense scrub in the 4wd
[08:34] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/Iaouj.jpg
[08:34] <Darkside> thats right next to the landing site
[08:38] <gonzo_> interesting manpack radio
[08:38] <Darkside> Codan 2110
[08:40] <gonzo_> nice set. I used to have a prc2000, similar but 80's vintage
[08:40] <Darkside> mm, this is a newish model
[08:40] <Darkside> very nice radio, not mine sadly :P
[08:40] <Darkside> though i have it on extended load
[08:40] <Darkside> loan*
[08:41] <gonzo_> yep, saw the prices!
[08:41] <Darkside> yeah, bloody expensive
[08:42] <gonzo_> the old prc got sold for something more useable. ie an 817
[08:43] <gonzo_> the old mil sets still change hands for money to collectors. But the old stuff is crap
[08:44] <gonzo_> that codan looks far nicer
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[08:47] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[09:05] <G0DJA> I had an FT70G a long time ago, it got nicked! This is what they look like http://www.qsl.net/kq6xa/ft70g/FT70Gface.JPG
[09:06] <Bob_G8NSV> mornin all
[09:07] <fsphil> Darkside, great pic
[09:07] <G0DJA> It's a little known law that in UK hotel is only responsible for gear left with them at front desk, so I booked in my FT70G and works PC at reception of a large London Hotel and it was stolen from there...
[09:07] <fsphil> the outback looks pretty amazing
[09:07] <Lunar_Lander> G0DJA, that sounds crappy
[09:07] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[09:08] <Bob_G8NSV> any news on what happened to eurus?
[09:09] <G0DJA> Tooik ages but eventually got payment from them
[09:09] <fsphil> it self destructed when the radio switched to high power mode Bob_G8NSV
[09:09] <Bob_G8NSV> oh dear, tried to pick it up after launch but signal was so weak I decoded nothing
[09:10] <Bob_G8NSV> what was the radio?
[09:10] <jcoxon> rfm22b
[09:10] <fsphil> yes it was just teetering on the edge of decodability here most of the time
[09:10] <Bob_G8NSV> what antenna john?
[09:11] <Bob_G8NSV> shame as it looked to be floating perfectly
[09:11] <fsphil> it was an amazing float
[09:11] <fsphil> I did have a quick scan of the sky just after sunset :)
[09:11] <fsphil> nothing but moon
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[09:15] <G0DJA> BTW - If anyone stops in a UK hotel and has expensive gear with them, the law to remember is the "Hotel Proprietors Act 1956" Section 2. Loss of or Damage to Guests Property
[09:15] <G0DJA> Under the Hotel Proprietors Act 1956, an hotel proprietor may in certain circumstances be liable to make good any loss of or damage to a guests property even though it was not due to any fault of the proprietor or staff of the hotel.
[09:15] <G0DJA> This liability however (b) is limited to £50 for any one article and a total of £100 in the case of any one guest, except in the case of property which has been deposited, or offered for deposit, for safe custody;
[09:16] <G0DJA> So always offer to hand it in, even if there is a safe in the room, if you don't offer it to them for safe keeping you are not covcered under the act
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[09:30] <fsphil> I've never had anything stole from a hotel yet, maybe just lucky
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[09:31] <gonzo_> I'd always wanted an FT70, but they are a bit dated these days
[09:39] <G0DJA> This was a few years ago now gonzo - before the FT817 had been thought of. Very little really portable HF gear about
[09:41] <gonzo_> there didn't seem to be many of them about on the used mmarket. Probabloyb the target market was not the sort to dispose of kit that way.
[09:42] <gonzo_> the 817 was certainly a ground breaker in the portable market.
[09:43] <gonzo_> and they seem to have got it just right, apart from the batt life. But lose the batts, you have a nice compartment for some more electronics. Use external LiPo's
[09:45] <Darkside> oh that was fun
[09:45] <Darkside> just had a short message qso with a VK2 via the ISS
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:46] <gonzo_> iss in repeater mode?
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[09:46] <Darkside> APRS QSO
[09:47] <Darkside> :P
[09:47] <Darkside> so nowhere near as cool
[09:47] <gonzo_> ah, still a qso
[09:47] <gonzo_> info was exchanged
[09:52] <gonzo_> just an aside... If it were possible to get the qualified telem strings out of fldigi on a com port, it would be possible to trunk them over some other non tcp/ip network
[09:52] <gonzo_> eg an HF circuit
[09:53] <gonzo_> so you could still get telem back life whilst out in the bush
[09:53] <gonzo_> (even something old schiool like ax25 300bd)
[09:53] <gonzo_> life=live
[09:54] <jcoxon> gonzo_, sure
[09:55] <Darkside> i'd be inclined to retransmit them as APRS on 30m or 40m
[09:55] <SpeedEvil> Smoke signals.
[09:55] <gonzo_> ah, that shows how out of date I am, didn't know aprs ran on hf too
[09:56] <gonzo_> hehe, yep ax25 was about as quick as smoke!
[09:56] <G0DJA> APRS on HF a bit old hat now - used to do it on 20 or 30M with a dual port TNC
[09:56] <G0DJA> But too many moaning minis about
[09:57] <Darkside> hrmm
[09:57] <Darkside> is there a replacement for AGWPE
[09:57] <Darkside> as it doesnt work on windows 7
[09:57] <gonzo_> extracting the strings could still be useful even uk, so injecting into aprs on vhf is a possability
[09:58] <gonzo_> the moaners are easilly dealt with, selective notch in your brain
[09:59] <G0DJA> Get a KAM (not the KAM+it wouldn't port VHF <> HF) or KAM-XL
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[10:00] <gonzo_> I have one of them away a few months ago. A friend is helping the air cadets set up a little packet network
[10:03] <gonzo_> gave
[10:03] <G0DJA> I have a saying about Amateur Radio "Whatever you want to do, someone will tell you 'It's illegal, it's immoral or it makes you fat' - Words from an old song ;-)
[10:04] <gonzo_> Ar seems top heavy with grumpy old men. If anyone listened to them, we'd all still be on top band AM
[10:05] <gonzo_> (god I'm starting to sound grumpy!!! Quick shoot me befiore I end up on 80mtrs!)
[10:05] <gonzo_> getting off topic again...
[10:06] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:06] <jcoxon> back on topic!
[10:08] <G0DJA> Anyone got any launches planned?
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[10:09] <G0DJA> Whilst at wedding did notice the helium balloons tended to deflate quickly - are any makes better than others?
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> There is coating you can put inside balloons to help
[10:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[10:11] <RocketBoy> :-)
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/Coloured_Gelcoats.html
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> argh
[10:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah helium diffuses quite good
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[10:18] <Lunar_Lander> people
[10:18] <Lunar_Lander> may I use the UKHAS logo for my shirtsleeve?
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[10:19] <RocketBoy> go on we won't bite
[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> is the Logo available without the horizon background?
[10:19] <RocketBoy> why not get a few made up - I'l buy one
[10:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah well I got my own logo on the front side
[10:20] <Lunar_Lander> and it says "High Altitude Laboratory" on the back
[10:20] <Lunar_Lander> see the front: http://s.gullipics.com/image/w/9/x/5ztoqm-j77oh9-ujlt/Bildschirmfotovom20120528121001.png
[10:23] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about it?
[10:26] <fsphil> print a different part of the horizon on each t-shirt, then get everyone to stand in line :)
[10:27] <G0DJA> 'Paint' only lets you cut a square, not a circle
[10:28] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[10:29] <G0DJA> I'll have to have a look on my own PC - don't want to install personal use programs on works PC
[10:30] <G0DJA> Who designed the Logo? I guess they have the copyright?
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea who did it
[10:32] <G0DJA> Oooo, I found out how to get the front bit without the horizon!
[10:32] <G0DJA> But has the words still
[10:33] <G0DJA> Background is a bit grey/specles though
[10:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[10:33] <G0DJA> Use the Media Manager button
[10:34] <priyesh> you may want to talk to danielsaul about the logo, iirc he designed the latest UKHAS logo using natrium42's icon
[10:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[10:34] <Lunar_Lander> or maybe I do without for this time
[10:36] <gonzo_> I suspect if you are not selling them, no-one will mind
[10:36] <G0DJA> Looked in the usual places but no details of copyright owner listed
[10:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[10:37] <G0DJA> It's polite to ask though
[10:37] <Lunar_Lander> true
[10:37] <priyesh> best email the list and i'm sure you'll get a definite answer
[10:39] <G0DJA> Also, if based upon someone elses logo they may only have a limited use agreement - could get them into trouble as well...
[10:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[10:40] <Lunar_Lander> the balloon looks like the spacenear balloon
[10:41] <jonsowman> it is the spacenear balloon
[10:41] <jonsowman> adapted by Darkside
[10:41] <jonsowman> no
[10:41] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[10:41] <jonsowman> not Darkside
[10:41] <jonsowman> danielsaul
[10:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[10:54] <danielsaul> Hello? People pinged :P
[10:55] <danielsaul> Ah
[10:56] <priyesh> http://spacenear.us/design/ might be of some use
[10:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[10:57] <danielsaul> I need to sort various changes to that logo etc. when I get time
[10:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[10:57] <Lunar_Lander> what is a PSD file?
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[10:58] <danielsaul> Lunar, I dont mind you using my version which Ill put up somewhere, though should probably check with natrium too...
[10:58] <danielsaul> and no autocomplete on phone :(
[10:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[10:58] Action: danielsaul boots up computer
[10:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah GIMP can open PSD
[10:58] <priyesh> danielsaul: Ctrl^I
[10:58] <danielsaul> ooh
[10:59] <danielsaul> priyesh:
[10:59] <danielsaul> :D
[11:08] <edmoore> test
[11:08] <edmoore> fine
[11:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[11:55] <G0DJA> GA all - off swimming as today is a day off for me (so is tomorrow and the day after as well...)
[12:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[12:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi r2x0t
[12:04] <r2x0t> yop
[12:06] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[12:11] <Darkside> hey vk5gr
[12:11] <vk5gr> evening darkside
[12:12] <vk5gr> hows things? everything packed away after the flight?
[12:12] <Darkside> how was the bbq last night?
[12:12] <Darkside> yeah pretty much
[12:12] <Darkside> managed to et digi'd by the ISS twice last night
[12:12] <Darkside> then again from my handheld today at uni
[12:12] <Lunar_Lander> cool, who answered?
[12:12] <vk5gr> i got theire quite late - so it was mostly over - but I did talk to a few people there
[12:12] <Darkside> and AGAIN tonight
[12:12] <Darkside> ok
[12:13] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: well, i got a 'hello' from someone on the other side of the country, so that was cool
[12:13] <vk5gr> you will have seen juxta's email today - that was an un-expected result of talking with a few people last night
[12:13] <Darkside> i still don't know what that was about
[12:13] <Darkside> but ok
[12:14] <Lunar_Lander> oh I thought you talked to an astronaut
[12:14] <Darkside> i wish
[12:14] <Darkside> the voice repeater up there hasnt been active for aaages
[12:14] <vk5gr> i've done the digi thing before with ISS as well - but in the earlier days I spoke with Astronaut Andy Thomas while he was on MIR
[12:15] <Darkside> nice
[12:15] <Darkside> they astronauts up there don't talk much, which is a bit sad
[12:16] <vk5gr> andy did engineering at Adelaide uni - and is also very good friends with Tony VK5ZAI here in Adelaide - later met Andy in person on one of his visits to Adelaide since his family still lives here
[12:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[12:17] <Darkside> once i have my antenna on the roof i should be able to play around a bit more
[12:18] <vk5gr> I also had two way packet radio text conversations with the early russian MIR cosmonauts - U2MIR and U5MIR
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[12:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[13:49] <edmoore> whaaaaaaats happnin
[13:50] <Darkside> not much
[13:50] <Darkside> i'm about to sleep
[13:50] <edmoore> woweeeee
[13:50] <jonsowman> you're very excitable today edmoore
[13:50] <jonsowman> name
[13:50] <jonsowman> oops
[13:50] <edmoore> mmm
[13:50] <jonsowman> wrong window
[13:50] <edmoore> engine testing
[13:51] <jonsowman> nice :)
[13:51] <edmoore> 3 seconds of ROOOAAAARRRRRRR!!!!! then 15 mins of charging the air tanks back to 200bar
[13:51] <jonsowman> cool
[13:51] <edmoore> very, from an adiabatic PoV
[13:51] <jonsowman> :P
[13:52] <BrainDamage> air tanks? as in compressed air?
[13:52] <edmoore> yes
[13:52] <BrainDamage> sounds like you could ask a scuba diving recharge station, they charge tanks at 200 bar usually
[13:52] <BrainDamage> 15-18l tanks
[13:53] <BrainDamage> you can rent a bunch for cheap
[13:53] <edmoore> thanks BrainDamage
[13:53] <edmoore> our tank is 470L
[13:53] <BrainDamage> heh
[13:53] <edmoore> and we have a 30kW compressor
[13:53] <edmoore> whose output stage glows visibly
[13:54] <fsphil> I was looking at the compressor we have in the factory here, and it's 88kW. scary stuff
[13:54] <BrainDamage> yeah, the few I know use 50kW, with similar effects
[13:54] <BrainDamage> altough tiny tanks :p
[13:54] <BrainDamage> ( compared to yours )
[13:54] <edmoore> yeah we get through quite a lot of air
[13:55] <edmoore> the tanks (there are several of them) get manifolded up to a 1.5" pipe
[13:55] <edmoore> and then onto the rig
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[14:00] <edmoore> not so easy, not so easy
[14:00] <edmoore> jonsowman:
[14:01] <jonsowman> hello
[14:01] <edmoore> wind direction locally at highish sample rates
[14:02] <edmoore> that's the thing that is nopt so easy
[14:03] <jonsowman> what did you want it for?
[14:04] <edmoore> refering to email traion
[14:04] <edmoore> i don't care personally
[14:04] <jonsowman> oh
[14:04] <jonsowman> i see
[14:04] <edmoore> tis just a thought experiment
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[14:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Saul "[UKHAS] Logo."
[14:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "Re: [UKHAS] Logo."
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> danielsaul, COOL
[14:29] <danielsaul> :)
[14:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Priyesh Patel "Re: [UKHAS] Logo."
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[14:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Logo."
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[14:52] <Lunar_Lander> danielsaul,
[14:52] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/0/v/f/5ztoqm-j771tc-sd09/Bildschirmfotovom20120528163700.png
[14:52] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/c/r/w/5ztoqm-j771tg-3rdu/Bildschirmfotovom20120528163704.png
[14:53] <danielsaul> Looks good :D
[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[14:53] <danielsaul> What are they for?
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> for myself
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> cause I got a table in the laboratories now and I call that table my HAL
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> high altitude laboratory
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[14:55] <danielsaul> It might be better if the UKHAS logo is just on one of the sleeves actually - with the "High altitude laboratory" text on the back too, it seems crowded and big
[14:55] <danielsaul> haha
[14:55] <danielsaul> be back in a bit
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> thing is with the navy blue, you cant have a logo on the sleeves
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> for some reason
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[15:08] <SamSilver> http://www.instructables.com/id/Hoffman-Apparatus-for-pure-hydrogen-gas/?ALLSTEPS
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[15:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Spike (Chris Foote) "Re: [UKHAS] Logo."
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[15:32] Nick change: UpuWork- -> UpuWork
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[15:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Hibberd "RE: [UKHAS] Logo."
[15:44] <griffonbot> Received email: John Tanner "Re: [UKHAS] Logo."
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[16:09] <edmoore> another hour to repressurise
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[16:09] <edmoore> i want some huge diesel 200kW monster
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[16:10] <nick_> bit.ly/KA2DAE I got my circuit board working. My ~25ns ~30mV signal turns into a ~4 microsecond 5 V pulse :)
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> edmoore: dull glow does to heating?
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> *due
[16:15] <edmoore> yep
[16:15] <r2x0t> nick_: how are you going to detect these by mbed?
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> insane
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> what pressure?
[16:15] <r2x0t> I would probably hook it up to IRQ
[16:15] <edmoore> Laurenceb_: 200 Bar
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> wow
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[16:16] <Laurenceb_> whats this for?
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> np: Queen - Under Pressure.
[16:17] <edmoore> simulating high pressure air breathingess
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> ah
[16:18] <Laurenceb_> does the test setup have a compressor?
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> nick_, what signal escatly?
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[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> *exactly
[16:18] <Laurenceb_> - compressor from the origional jet engine?
[16:19] <edmoore> yes
[16:19] <edmoore> this is not related to that stuff
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> ah
[16:19] <edmoore> this is the other end
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> ah
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> oh i was looking at lipo powered electric turbopumps
[16:21] <Laurenceb_> something i never appreciated before - centrifugal pumps are vert inefficient
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> Done right
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> I read in passing that Merlin (SpaceX) uses a feed from the turbopump for hydraulics.
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> One plus of using a benign propellant as one of them.
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> Kerosene is practically hydraulic oil.
[16:21] <edmoore> i think technically they are not turbopumps
[16:21] <edmoore> they are just pumps
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> i said inefficient
[16:22] <edmoore> i've been looking at the impeller design this afternoon
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> due to all the kinetic energy
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> of the stuff as it leaves
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> - for simple designs
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> I was surprised as to the efficiency of common-or-garden fans.
[16:23] <edmoore> but it will take a bit more work on my part to understand all the fluid dynamics to make something that has a hope of being at the higher end of how efficient it could be
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Can hit 50% even for common ones - DC-pressure
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> even a 50% one with brushless motor and lipo is good
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> maybe 4% of take off mass for the pumps on a small rocket
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> I mean for air movement - not pumping liquids
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about a gas generator pistonless pump
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> But that gets rather more complex
[16:24] <edmoore> good.
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> (and I was annoyed to find it's patented - and I have a nice sketch of the patent about 6 years prior)
[16:25] <edmoore> i think you can definitely go on a flight of fancy when designing your cycles. I want something that works and is cheap
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Blowdown!
[16:25] Action: Laurenceb_ was thinking brushless motor powered pumps with dirt simple impellor designs
[16:25] <Laurenceb_> but that means less than 50% efficiency
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[16:26] <Laurenceb_> running at silly high speeds helps reduce wieght
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[16:26] <Laurenceb_> but then you cant find any suitable motors
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> I do wonder what your average RC motor would do if you swap out the bearings, rewind carefully, and then run it at 100KRPM
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> I suppose windage rapidly gets to be an issue
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> explode
[16:27] <nick_> r2x0t: to start with I will just be counting the rates, so i'll just set up an interrupt to look for them.
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> Well - :)
[16:27] <nick_> (sorry for the slow reply, my supervisor came to say hello and got excited)
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> also the speed controller will lose track
[16:28] <edmoore> ah nick_ yo
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> And yes - you're going to need to overclock the ESC. :)
[16:28] <edmoore> do you fancy something foddie and chatty this week?
[16:28] <nick_> Lunar_Lander: the red trace is a voltage out of a silicon photomultiplier.
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> or use an stm32 one
[16:28] <nick_> edmoore: sure.
[16:28] <nick_> I think I'm free most evenings.
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> not some atmega nonsense
[16:29] <edmoore> nick_: wednesday
[16:29] <edmoore> ?
[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> nick_, what does the PM do?
[16:30] <Laurenceb_> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__4938__KB45_08L_2300kv_Brushless_Inrunner.html
[16:30] <Laurenceb_> something like that looks usable
[16:31] <nick_> Lunar_Lander: it amplifies a few photons coming from a block of scintillator.
[16:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:31] <Lunar_Lander> is that for ground or balloon?
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: This is for a balloon launchy thing?
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> Liquid?
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> Half a kilo.
[16:32] <Laurenceb_> i was just thinking about eroomdes suggestion of brushless pumped biprop
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> I guess not
[16:32] <nick_> I want to send it on a balloon
[16:32] <Laurenceb_> yeah way too big for balloon launched
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> I guess you then need to start thinking really hard about chamber pressure.
[16:32] <russss> 3400W
[16:32] <russss> ouch
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> And how much it buys you
[16:32] <edmoore> i expect 2000W of it is heat
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> (pre-injector pressure - OK)
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: They're actually fairly efficient.
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> At the sustained speed anyway
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> sustained power
[16:33] <russss> I got some cheap (~200W) model ducted fans off ebay. They were very cheap and had brush motors in
[16:34] <russss> I spun one up to 90% power and it spat a large chunk of white-hot carbon brush out of the side.
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> Ow.
[16:34] <russss> didn't work after that.
[16:34] <edmoore> nice
[16:34] <edmoore> they do run very hot, those brushless ones
[16:34] <edmoore> i'm not convinced they're that efficient
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: They can't run over ~80C or so - or they start to demagnetise.
[16:34] <edmoore> i was being tongue in cheek saying 2000W
[16:34] <edmoore> yes they would need some active cooling
[16:35] <Laurenceb_> edmoore: you said you found a 5Kw one?
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Oh - there are quite large ones :)
[16:35] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] Logo."
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scorpion-HK-4525-520KV-ULTIMATE-Brushless-Motor-NEW-RC-Helicopter-/221031179148?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item33767c238c
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> search ebay for 'brushless motor'
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> Then sort by highest first, and scroll past the first couple of pages
[16:36] <russss> that one claims 89% efficiency
[16:37] <russss> Max Peak Power 10200 Watts
[16:38] <edmoore> poor LiPos
[16:38] <Laurenceb_> insane
[16:38] <Laurenceb_> a bit slow tho
[16:38] <Laurenceb_> you want faster for impellors
[16:38] <Laurenceb_> at least 60Krpm
[16:41] <Laurenceb_> i want to make a scooter now
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Dear Sir/Maddam, Your E-mail Has Won Yahoo Lotto US$1.Million Dollars Only, to claim your prize kindly contact our claim agent Mr. Muhammad Wiryanto via this E-mail address (yaholotoinc3@yahoo.com). Thanks. Yahoo Company. Notification Officer.
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Joy.
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[16:45] <SpeedEvil> LiPo + brushless do tend to make very, very silly vehicles possible.
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> If you can dump the batteries in 2 minutes - that's a hell of a power/weight ratio.
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[16:52] <fsphil> your e-mail is rich!
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> hi nosebleedkt and RocketBoy
[16:52] <fsphil> shame it won't give you any
[16:56] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander hi
[16:58] <fsphil> beginner rocket kits all have really cheesy names
[16:58] <fsphil> "deluxe starship"
[16:59] <nosebleedkt> fucking taxes
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, XD
[17:00] <fsphil> I'm gonna get one and wire up the little uart camera I have left
[17:01] <fsphil> get some not-so-high-altitude images
[17:03] <nosebleedkt> :p
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[17:06] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders if you could spray water over motors etc to cool
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> It'd need to go through the middle
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> I suspect
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> If you could make fog - perhaps
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17265__Turnigy_nano_tech_6000mah_2S2P_65_130C_Hardcase_Lipo_Pack.html
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[17:12] <Lunar_Lander> btw I had been creative to some extent
[17:13] <Lunar_Lander> I hope I can show that in a moment
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[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> creativity will be deployed
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> in three
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> two
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> one
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/r/n/l/5ztoqm-j778ko-jdzr/Kevinhatwasgemalt.png
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[17:20] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander is it true that in germany if you download a movie they sent you a paper to pay a big fine?
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> don't know, never downloaded a movie
[17:21] <nosebleedkt> lol
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> probably if you get caught
[17:21] <nosebleedkt> have you ever seen The big lebowski?
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> heard about it
[17:22] <nosebleedkt> better watch it
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> is it good?
[17:22] <nosebleedkt> awesome
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:22] <nosebleedkt> comedy of rare type
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> I only know that there are two characters called lebowski and "The Dude"
[17:22] <edmoore> funny?
[17:22] <nosebleedkt> looool
[17:23] <nosebleedkt> both characters have the same name
[17:23] <nosebleedkt> lebowski
[17:23] <nosebleedkt> one rich guy
[17:23] <nosebleedkt> and one looser that calls himself the dude
[17:23] <nosebleedkt> :P
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah xD
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for the stupid question but how was the other movie called that you recommended to me?
[17:23] <nosebleedkt> its an old movie
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> I think it was a movie made in Greece about the gods or so
[17:24] <nosebleedkt> astrophycics?
[17:24] <nosebleedkt> Agora?
[17:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
[17:25] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[17:25] <nosebleedkt> still didnt watch it?
[17:25] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
[17:25] <nosebleedkt> dont talk to me until you watch it :P
[17:25] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: looks like you can make a pump system thats around 4% of takeoff mass
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> for a hundered Kg or so takeoff mass
[17:28] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=463413433672706&set=a.259793110701407.82967.259791880701530&type=1&theater
[17:28] <nosebleedkt> thats my new logo for the 1st mission
[17:28] <nosebleedkt> gonna get helium this week
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> did you saw my painting too :P?
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> yours looks awesome
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> Tesla Ikaros
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> yay
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[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt, my painting is http://s.gullipics.com/image/r/n/l/5ztoqm-j778ko-jdzr/Kevinhatwasgemalt.png
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[17:36] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander lol
[17:36] <nosebleedkt> what is this?
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[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah I tried the various brushes and pencils in GIMP
[17:37] <nosebleedkt> lol
[17:39] <nick_> Oof, I think my mbed might be dead :(
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[18:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Jonathan Pelham "Re: [UKHAS] Logo."
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[18:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Logo."
[18:20] <nick_> Presenting the arduino cosmic ray detector: bit.ly/KyNeQH
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[18:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Mike Willis "RE: [UKHAS] Logo."
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Interesting.
[18:38] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: what chamber pressure was that?
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> i assumed 10MPascal pump pressure
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> and 50% efficiency
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> those scorpion motors and 65C lipos with openbldc controller for each motor
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/esden/4921147388/
[18:55] <jonsowman> neat
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[19:01] <danielsaul> Laurenceb_: Do openbldc work fine?
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> aiui yes
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> but i havent been following it
[19:07] <danielsaul> Might have to make a couple and try them
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> its stupidly overpowered
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> 200A @ 50v
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[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> did anyone follow the link by nick_?
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah it's just google plus
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[19:43] <Broliv> Evening all
[19:44] <fsphil> hiya Broliv
[19:45] <Broliv> hows things fsphil?
[19:45] <fsphil> all quiet tonight Broliv, having a nice night off :)
[19:46] <fsphil> you?
[19:46] <Broliv> Yeah, not too bad. Just doing the night support for work
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[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> hello Broliv , you are new?
[19:49] <Broliv> Yes I am :)
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> where are you from?
[19:50] <Broliv> Liverpool orginally
[19:50] <Broliv> What about you?
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> north-west germany
[19:51] <Broliv> Cool
[19:51] <Broliv> where abouts?
[19:52] <Broliv> My cousin lived over in Essen for a bit
[19:55] <jonsowman> so, any PIC/C18 gurus in here?
[19:55] <jonsowman> having lots of fun with it, and i need someone to share the fun with
[19:55] <jonsowman> :|
[20:00] <Broliv> Sorry jonsowman, i can't help you there. I'm just getting back in to programming again with an Arduino and havn't ventured to PIC/C18 yet.
[20:00] <jonsowman> Broliv: don't
[20:00] <jonsowman> just don't
[20:00] <Broliv> lol
[20:00] <jonsowman> save yourself the pain
[20:00] <jonsowman> stick with AVRs
[20:00] <fsphil> !0
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[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> Broliv, sorry
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> I am from Osnabruck
[20:07] <Broliv> Np Lunar_Lander
[20:08] <Broliv> I've never been up that way
[20:10] <jcoxon> jonsowman, RocketBoy is your man
[20:10] <jonsowman> thanks jcoxon, I'll ask him when he's around :)
[20:11] <Broliv> bbl
[20:13] <daveake> jonsowman Share the pain with me ... I'm doing a PIC24/C30 project, so I'll probably nod a lot
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:15] <jonsowman> daveake: basically this gives a "syntax error" at line 12: http://pastie.org/3984499
[20:15] <jonsowman> but both of the following two compile fine: http://pastie.org/3984534 & http://pastie.org/3984538
[20:16] <fsphil> does it work if it's declared at the start of the function?
[20:16] <daveake> +1
[20:17] <jonsowman> wow
[20:17] <jonsowman> thanks
[20:17] <jonsowman> honestly though, "syntax error" is not a useful compiler error
[20:17] <jonsowman> thank you both!
[20:17] <fsphil> definitely not
[20:17] <fsphil> it's not really a syntax error at all
[20:17] <daveake> nod
[20:18] <fsphil> well maybe
[20:18] <jonsowman> even if it is, it should seriously be more verbose
[20:18] <daveake> Yep
[20:18] <gonzo_> +++ out of cheese error +++
[20:18] <jonsowman> turning on the -verbose C18 compiler option is a waste of time
[20:18] <gonzo_> Redo from start +++
[20:19] <jonsowman> actually I opened MPLAB the other day and it just said "No error message available"
[20:19] <fsphil> hah
[20:19] <jonsowman> i gave up at that point and had a cup of tea :|
[20:19] <fsphil> I always get a laugh out of "Unexpected error"
[20:19] <fsphil> well duh
[20:19] <gonzo_> I've foind the C18 can give line no's for errors that are miles away from the actual bug
[20:20] <jonsowman> gonzo_: yep
[20:20] <daveake> "Integer expression expected; integer expression found"
[20:20] <jonsowman> C18 is truly awful
[20:20] <jonsowman> I appreciate avr-gcc so much more
[20:20] <fsphil> what produced that wonder daveake?
[20:20] <gonzo_> you get used to it's funny little ways
[20:20] <daveake> Can't remember
[20:20] <jonsowman> it's not just that gonzo_, it's actually a very bad compiler
[20:21] <jonsowman> it managed to make setting 17 IO lines into over 1000 asm instructions
[20:21] <daveake> Apparently PL-6 had "Error found between beginning and end of file."
[20:21] <fsphil> lol
[20:21] <jonsowman> haha
[20:21] <jonsowman> wow
[20:23] <jonsowman> PICs aren't great compared to AVRs anyway, but they are /so/ let down by the toolchain
[20:24] <daveake> http://www.anvari.org/fortune/Miscellaneous_Collections/19061_and-the-lord-said-lo-there-shall-only-be-case-or-default-labels-inside-a-switch-statement-apples-mpw-c-compiler-error-message.html
[20:24] <gonzo_> jI usually use the hitex compiler for my own stuff.
[20:24] <jonsowman> gonzo_: yeah hi-tech c seems to be a lot better
[20:25] <jonsowman> I've not used it though, so I can't comment on how good it actually is as a compiler
[20:25] <gonzo_> that's what I used for my tracker code anyway
[20:25] <jonsowman> daveake: at least that's useful as well as amusing :P
[20:26] <daveake> :)
[20:27] <gonzo_> good that managers and sales people can't spot those before they go out of the door. And that proigrammers appreciate them
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:29] <gonzo_> we had a bit of code go out with a very rude indication of the IQ of the person who forgat to put a key disk in the PC. Was a remionder to the programmer who kept forgetting, but got left in.
[20:29] <gonzo_> the customer found iot amusing and asked for it to stay
[20:29] <gonzo_> (they were from .au)
[20:31] <fsphil> I love customers with a sense of humour
[20:33] <oh7lzb> I once wrote a unix daemon to talk AT to Siemens GSM modules, for the purpose of passing alarm SMSes
[20:33] <oh7lzb> even made it run a handler program for incoming SMSes, for the purpose of simple commands
[20:34] <oh7lzb> For an unknown command it replied slightly rudely, "Keep your tunkki" (tunkki: jacklift)
[20:34] <oh7lzb> originally in Finnish, but at some point it got translated to that mixed-language form for some reason.
[20:36] <oh7lzb> Some 5 years passed, and a colleague, upon request from management, made the on-call standby person's status updates for critical trouble tickets go to a couple of key managers
[20:36] <oh7lzb> and he did it by feeding the messages to the spool directory of my little daemon which was already sending the Nagios alerts to the stand-by guy
[20:37] <oh7lzb> he didn't know (or remember) the existence of the incoming message handler...
[20:38] <oh7lzb> Some 6...9 months later the CEO figured he'd reply to one of the status update messages, and ask the stand-by person how's one of the cases going
[20:39] <oh7lzb> he was unable to figure out that the status messages he had received were typed into a web form and transmitted by a computer
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[20:39] <oh7lzb> he had always thought the stand-by guy typed them manually on his Nokia Communicator and sent them to him
[20:40] <oh7lzb> He was very upset when the stand-by guy sent him these rude messages. 8)
[20:40] <fsphil> whoops
[20:41] <daveake> nice :)
[20:42] <daveake> Not programming but rather data entry ... a rather bored guy at a place I worked at was put into support for a few days, and typed comments about the customers into the "comments" box of the customer support/sales system ...
[20:42] <fsphil> uhoh
[20:42] <daveake> ... the same database was then used for a mailing ...
[20:42] <daveake> You can see this one coming can't you? :p
[20:43] <daveake> ... and someone ticked the "comments" box which then got inserted in the letters
[20:43] <fsphil> cringing just thinking about it
[20:43] <daveake> I think 3 customers called in, very angry, having read "I bet he does rude things with gerbils" or similar
[20:43] <jonsowman> :D
[20:44] <oh7lzb> hahah
[20:46] Action: fsphil is looking at rotators. stop me please before I spend more money
[20:46] <daveake> stop
[20:46] <daveake> rotate 180
[20:47] <fsphil> you'll see some guy on the street soon.. "will work for helium"
[20:47] <jonsowman> fsphil: build one :)
[20:47] <fsphil> you've not seen how good I am at building things :)
[20:47] <jonsowman> haha it would be a good project though
[20:47] <fsphil> would be
[20:48] <fsphil> I wouldn't even know where to start
[20:48] <fsphil> or how to weatherproof it
[20:48] <fsphil> stop it falling of the roof.. etc
[20:49] <jonsowman> :)
[20:49] <Broliv> bk
[20:50] <jonsowman> so are you looking to launch a HAB Broliv?
[20:51] <fsphil> we had a flight travel over liverpool recently
[20:51] <Broliv> Yeah i'm looking to launch a HAB.
[20:52] <Broliv> fsphil: I noticed, i was following it on sunday morning. I live in Manchester at the mo.
[20:52] <fsphil> we flew of that too :)
[20:52] <fsphil> over
[20:52] <fsphil> it seemed to like cities
[20:53] <Broliv> It was pretty cool. Shame about loosing signal though
[20:53] <fsphil> yea. next one should be more robust
[20:54] <Broliv> Most of the launches i've looked up seem to go towards the North sea, so it was a bit odd that it managed to header over this way
[20:54] <Broliv> *head
[20:55] <daveake> Yeah it's unusual
[20:55] <fsphil> it's unusual wind conditions
[20:55] <Broliv> Jonsowman: I'm hopefully(tm) looking to be ready to go mid to end October
[20:55] <jonsowman> Broliv: great, what hardware are you using?
[20:55] Action: Lunar_Lander just wanted to ask the same
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:55] <Broliv> Just re-learning programming again after not touching it in 6~7 years
[20:56] <jonsowman> well you've made a good choice with Arduino
[20:56] <Broliv> Going to use an arduino
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> which one?
[20:56] <Broliv> i've got a shiny new uno sat next to me blinking at the minute
[20:57] <Broliv> I take it you guys use something more powerful?
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> Broliv, I am also a beginner
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> have a Arduino mega
[20:58] <Broliv> cool
[20:58] <Broliv> how long have you been working on your project?
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> 2 years roundabout
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> I know it's a shame
[21:01] <Broliv> nothing to be ashamed about
[21:02] <Broliv> Where abouts are you upto?
[21:02] <Broliv> have you got your payload sorted yet or are you still working on the code?
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> hardware is about done and brought togehter, coding is the problem
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> and you?
[21:07] <fsphil> most people here fly avrs or arduinos of some form
[21:07] <fsphil> they're actually quite capiable chips
[21:07] <Broliv> cool
[21:08] <fsphil> and they even spell better than I do
[21:08] <Broliv> Lunar_Lander: I bought an Arduino last week :P Very early days
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:09] <Broliv> fsphil: Don't worry about spelling with me. I have a poor spelling history.
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> and I got a poor painting history: http://s.gullipics.com/image/q/r/s/5ztoqm-j77ym5-mnai/Kevinhatwasgemalt.png
[21:11] <Broliv> Hehe, i like the shading :P
[21:11] <fsphil> the wire vortex
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> if thats your achievement of the day...
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[21:14] <daveake> Looks like Pollock's to me
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> actually yes
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> sell it to tate gallery
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD what is that?
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see it
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> in London?
[21:16] <fsphil> and if tate won't buy it, try lyle
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:16] <Broliv> lol
[21:17] <daveake> They might offer you a sweetener
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> what's that?
[21:17] <fsphil> 100 points to daveake
[21:17] <daveake> a joke
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> back to business
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> Broliv, Arduino is quite good
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> but I read it is sometimes hard to get it to do not so common routines
[21:21] <Broliv> do you have any examples?
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> for what exactly?
[21:22] <Broliv> of the not so common routines
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> thanks to Upu we got this tutorial http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah no, sorry not at hand
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> I only read about that somewhere
[21:23] <Broliv> np
[21:23] <fsphil> that's the fun bit though, learning how things work and writing the code for it
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:23] <Broliv> Yeah i've had a look through that tutorial. It's very good
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:26] <Broliv> What type of kit are you looking to send up?
[21:27] <Broliv> are you going to hava a camera?
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah probably that 808 keyfob camera
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> do you know that one?
[21:27] <Broliv> i've not come across it myself
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2011/12/25/christmas-presents-the-80816-camera.html
[21:28] <Broliv> cheers
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[21:31] <daveake> Why the 808? Canon cameras cost no more. Weight isn't a big issue.
[21:32] <fsphil> canon has better quality images too
[21:32] <fsphil> no rolling shutter
[21:33] <daveake> yup
[21:33] <daveake> Buzz5 had a Canon camera and that got pretty high :)
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah yeah, but how hard is it to reprogram a canon?
[21:34] <daveake> easy peasy
[21:34] <fsphil> chdk ftw
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:35] <daveake> Easier than the programming to control the 808
[21:35] <fsphil> you have to hard hack the 808
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[21:35] <daveake> (and yes I've done both)
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> hard hack?
[21:35] <fsphil> soldering iron :)
[21:35] <daveake> easy peasy
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> I thought it is switch on and go
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> especially with the new models with ext. battery pack
[21:36] <daveake> 808? Well depends. If you have enough battery and storage, and you want video only, then yes turn it on and go
[21:37] <daveake> But really, unless you're trying to make a lightweight payload, the Canons win on everything
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> can you recommend a certain type?
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[21:41] <daveake> Well I like the A490/495 because they're lighter than the others, but anything that takes AAs and runs CHDK will do fine
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:42] <nick_> What is CHDK?
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> just Canon A490 or something like "PowerShot"?
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> hey nick_ nice that you are back, i saw your google+
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> that you linked to
[21:43] <nick_> Cool
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Custom canon camera firmwares
[21:43] <nick_> When people send up cameras do they trigger shots, or just set it to take a photo periodically?
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> periodically
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> generally
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> triggering has limited point
[21:44] <daveake> I just use a simple intervalometer script to take a shot every 5 seconds.
[21:44] <nick_> Do most cameras just have a time lapse function or something?
[21:44] <daveake> very few
[21:44] <nick_> That's what I really meant.
[21:44] <fsphil> yea, odd that
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Unless you have a MEMs gyroscope
[21:44] <nick_> Does the camera functionality take a shot periodically, or you need an external trigger?
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> And can pick times to take the image to make a pan
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> - but this is hard.
[21:45] <daveake> You can do either
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> Some cameras will take infinite shots if you just rubberband the button
[21:45] <daveake> With CHDK the simplest is to run a simple script to take photo, wait n seconds, goto start
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> CHDK is considerably more flexible
[21:46] <daveake> On some canons you can take a few photos, then some video, then back again
[21:46] <nick_> How much do the payloads jump around?
[21:46] <daveake> Or you can trigger externally via the USB port
[21:46] <daveake> lots
[21:46] <Upu> evening
[21:46] <daveake> They spin and swing
[21:46] <daveake> Evening Upu
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Evenupu.
[21:46] <Upu> hey daveake
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu
[21:47] <Upu> + all :)
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, cool found a A490
[21:47] <nick_> I've been thinking about this for my cosmic detector.
[21:48] <nick_> I'm thinking I'll probably need a cube of scintillator so that the area stays the same when it swings around.
[21:51] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/DabPO new toy
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[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Upu: OMG! You bought a human hand!
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Those things are so useful.
[21:51] <Upu> indeed its the future
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Can make awesome soups.
[21:51] <nick_> Upu: what does the board do?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, the window looks strange
[21:52] <Upu> its a tracker
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> I'm guessing it's not a breakout?
[21:52] <Upu> no :)
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> Oh - neat!
[21:52] <Upu> just reads its location from the GPS, transmits it, on board temp and voltage regulation
[21:52] <nick_> What's the main chip on the back?
[21:53] <daveake> Who'd have thunk it?
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, Cool phone number!
[21:53] <Upu> ATMega328
[21:53] <Upu> yeah its HP Support Line feel free Lunar_Lander
[21:53] <nick_> How much does that thing weigh?
[21:53] <Upu> 5g ?
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> who did the pcb?
[21:53] <Upu> me
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> i like the colour
[21:53] <Upu> oh Seeed
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> i mean the manufacturing
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> cool
[21:54] <Broliv> Haha, good luck with calling HP for support
[21:54] <nick_> What goes in the space on the right?
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> "yellow" ?
[21:54] <Upu> for the GPS chip
[21:54] <Upu> red :)
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> its orange
[21:55] <Upu> lighting its red
[21:56] <nick_> How do you program the ATMega?
[21:56] <jonsowman> the 3x2 header is ICSP i imagine
[21:57] <Upu> via normal Arduino using a programmer
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, what sort of SD card goes with the A490?
[21:57] <Upu> it is effectively an Arduino Pro 328 3.3V 8Mhz
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> a big one or a microSD?
[21:57] <nick_> Can you explain more?
[21:57] <Upu> sure
[21:57] <nick_> You connect that to an arduino and the arduino programs it?
[21:57] <Upu> no
[21:58] <daveake> LL SDHC normal size
[21:58] <Upu> what I have done is take the circuit for this : http://arduino.cc/it/Main/ArduinoBoardPro
[21:58] <Upu> and added my bits and rediesgned it a bit
[21:58] <Upu> note on that board the "ISP" socket on the right
[21:58] <Upu> well you can program the ATMega328 Chips with that using a programmer
[21:59] <Upu> sec
[21:59] <nick_> OK
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, ah and what size?
[22:00] <Upu> ok nick_
[22:00] <Upu> so http://i.imgur.com/FGg2zl.jpg
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> I already have a Samsung 16 GB Class 10
[22:00] <Upu> is what the programmer looks like
[22:00] <Upu> then you just open Arduino like normal
[22:00] <Upu> write your program and then hold shift down as you hit upload
[22:01] <Upu> it then programs it via the programmer rather than the normal USB/Serial
[22:01] <nick_> OK
[22:01] <nick_> I'd tried to look a little into programming some chips.
[22:01] <daveake> LL Depends on how often you take photos / how long for
[22:01] <craag> I take that the unpopulated IC space is for the MAX-6 module, then you solder an antenna straight to the pads at the edge of the board?
[22:01] <nick_> Although I was looking at Cortex Mx
[22:01] <daveake> 8GB should be enough
[22:02] <jonsowman> nick_: ARMs are a bit more complex
[22:02] <Upu> thats correct craag
[22:02] <nick_> jonsowman: how so?
[22:02] <jonsowman> both in terms of toolchain and firmware
[22:02] <Upu> I like to test everything before I put the GPS on
[22:02] <craag> Very neat!
[22:02] <fsphil> wise
[22:02] <jonsowman> nick_: there's a lot more setup involved in using peripherals and things
[22:03] <nick_> OK
[22:03] <jonsowman> they're much more powerful but that comes at the expense of increased complexity
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> its not too hard :P
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> head to #stm32
[22:04] <jonsowman> oh i'm not saying don't do it
[22:04] <jonsowman> by any means
[22:04] <jonsowman> but they are definitely more complex than an AVR
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:04] <nick_> At the moment it's just on my "it could be cool if..." list.
[22:05] <Upu> in habbing simple is good
[22:05] <jonsowman> they are insanely featureful, for £1.50 or whatever you can get an STM32F100 which is orders of magnitude more powerful than an AVR which costs more like £4
[22:06] <jonsowman> but yes as Upu says, there's a good reason most people use AVRs for HABs
[22:06] <nick_> If I could get most of the functionality of an mbed for a few pounds it could help me get my detector in more schools.
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, ah ok
[22:07] <nick_> But that's really just a side thought.
[22:07] <jonsowman> nick_: what does the mcu need to do?
[22:08] <nick_> Along with "it'd be neat if I could make my own board"
[22:08] <nick_> Well, that's not entirely clear right now.
[22:09] <fsphil> you could make your own board :)
[22:09] <nick_> The first iteration an arduino could do fine.
[22:09] <jonsowman> nick_: okay, fair enough
[22:09] <nick_> But at some point I might want more performance.
[22:09] <nick_> If I go from just counting events to trying to get the signal size then I'll want to read out some ADCs pretty quickly.
[22:09] <jonsowman> depending how quickly, an AVR might be fine
[22:10] <jonsowman> running bare metal AVR instead of Arduino gives you a significant speed increase
[22:10] <nick_> Well, maybe ~MHz
[22:11] <jonsowman> yeah probably not that quicklu
[22:11] <jonsowman> +y
[22:11] <jonsowman> not that I've tested
[22:11] <fsphil> you'd be able to do it, but have no time left to do anything useful with the data
[22:11] <nick_> But maybe it just puts in some down time
[22:11] <jonsowman> the ARMs have DMA, which is what you really want for that kind of thing
[22:11] <nick_> DMA?
[22:11] <jonsowman> direct memory access
[22:12] <jonsowman> the DMA controller can dump ADC reads directly into RAM
[22:12] <jonsowman> without interrupting or involving the MCU core
[22:12] <nick_> OK
[22:12] <jonsowman> same for other peripherals too
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> Surely you don't want an ADC
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> but a PWM unit that can count external events
[22:12] <nick_> SpeedEvil: this is if I want to get the peak height too.
[22:12] <jonsowman> it means you get much, much higher bandwidth to and from peripherals
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, you program with CHDK via the SD card right?
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> what are you trying to do?
[22:13] <nick_> Measuring the signal size could potentially give some particle identification in a multi layer detector.
[22:14] <nick_> But that'd probably only be for a ground based detector.
[22:14] <daveake> LL Google CHDK and read it. It's not difficult. You download the firmware, unzip to SD, then do the rest in the camera
[22:15] <nick_> Since it'd need a decent amount of metal.
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> oh
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> i see
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> as in particle detector?
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> drift chamber?
[22:16] <nick_> Right now the main motivation for using an mbed for this is that I'm doing some other stuff with an arduino and that some ARM recruiter said they like people who've played around with mbeds.
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> or scintilla tor?
[22:16] <nick_> Scintillator + silicon photomultiplier.
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> ah
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> yeah id say you need an stm32
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> avr adc just isnt up to that
[22:16] <nick_> What I have now is fine with an arduino.
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[22:17] <nick_> I have the signal go into a fast comparator then a monostable.
[22:17] <nick_> And it just does some counting.
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> ah
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> so its got digital input?
[22:18] <nick_> Yes
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> do you want adc?
[22:18] <nick_> One day I'd like to get some analog input
[22:18] <nick_> But that's not a priority.
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> well I think that was it for today
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> i see
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> thanks again daveake
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> guess it depends what the sensor output looks like
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> slew rate etc
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[22:19] <nick_> It might just be that I feed the sensor output into two comparators with different comparison thresholds.
[22:19] <nick_> Or that I never get around to analog readout.
[22:20] <nick_> For a high altitude rate measurement I don't really need the amplitude.
[22:20] <nick_> Ditto for the other use which is looking for people smuggling nuclear material.
[22:21] <nick_> Something that I could more likely need is a fast time tagging.
[22:21] <nick_> To look for cosmic showers by finding coincidences over relatively large distances.
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[22:22] <nick_> Upu: where did you order your PCB from?
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[22:24] <Upu> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185
[22:25] <nick_> How much did it cost?
[22:25] <Upu> $14 for 10 delivered
[22:25] <nick_> Delivered to the UK?
[22:25] <Upu> well $24 as I go for red :)
[22:25] <Upu> yes
[22:25] <nick_> Wow, that's good.
[22:25] <Upu> it is however there is one thing that will bring it all to a screaming halt
[22:26] <Upu> "Eagle"
[22:26] <nick_> Are all the cheap manufacturers in America?
[22:26] <Upu> Sure there are but generally the chinese are the cheap ones
[22:26] <Upu> http://www.cadsoftusa.com/eagle-pcb-design-software/?language=en
[22:26] <nick_> Did you spend as much time waiting on shipping as waiting for manufacture?
[22:27] <Upu> shipping is random
[22:27] <nick_> They don't like Eagle?
[22:27] <Upu> and slow
[22:27] <Upu> no you won't like Eagle
[22:27] <Upu> anyway I'm off nn
[22:27] <nick_> I've used Eagle
[22:27] <Broliv> nn
[22:27] <nick_> Goodnight.
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[22:42] <fsphil> eagle is a necessary evil :)
[22:42] <nick_> Why do people dislike Eagle?
[22:43] <jonsowman> all CAD programs are a bit annoying
[22:43] <jonsowman> that's the nature of CAD software
[22:44] <jonsowman> they all have their good and bad bits. personally I like Eagle but that's because I know it
[22:44] <jonsowman> it's worth trying others, such as Kicad
[22:45] <fsphil> I'm starting to like it, better than drawing a pcb manually
[22:45] <jonsowman> yeah your other option is a sharpie and some acetate
[22:46] <fsphil> I did a PCB in inkscape once
[22:46] <fsphil> for photo transfer
[22:46] <fsphil> worked really well but took ages
[22:46] <jonsowman> :D
[22:46] <fsphil> and the wasted pcbs that where not exposed correctly was annoying
[22:46] <fsphil> seeed are cheaper
[22:47] <jonsowman> i remember printing onto acetate at school, and bodging mistakes with a board marker
[22:48] <jonsowman> but yeah seeed are great
[22:48] <jonsowman> (and itead)
[22:51] <gonzo_> I've used laser onto acetate or tracing paper
[22:51] <gonzo_> works well
[22:52] <gonzo_> not etched anything for a year or so though.
[22:53] <jonsowman> with seeed/itead, home fab is barely worth it
[22:53] <jonsowman> 10 5x5cm boards for <£10 inc shipping
[22:53] <jonsowman> crazy
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> That's bloody good
[22:56] <Broliv> I'm off. Night guys
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> Fast turnaround is about the only thing left
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[22:56] <SpeedEvil> Or doing lots of trivial mods
[22:57] <gonzo_> that's why my etch kit got archived
[22:57] <gonzo_> and I needed that corner of the workshop for summut else
[23:00] <nick_> Trying to work out if I've actually killed my mbed is not easy
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[00:00] --- Tue May 29 2012