highaltitude.log.20120525

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[04:01] <griffonbot> @amradvictoria: RT @vk5gr: @VK1WIA @amradvictoria News Update on #ProjectHorus repeater launch campaign at Mildura on Sunday can be found here http://t. ... [http://twitter.com/amradvictoria/status/205871248134254592]
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[04:15] Action: SpeedEvil fails completely at sleep.
[04:18] Action: zamabe moves SpeedEvil's sleeping body from sleep to africa
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[07:35] <vk5gr-3> ping Darkside
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[07:46] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: http://t.co/hB6fC60P Much needed supplies. #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/205927830897434625]
[07:52] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: RT @darksidelemm: http://t.co/hB6fC60P Much needed supplies. #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/205929397021184000]
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[08:27] <Darkside> damn he;s gone
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[08:38] <vk5gr-3> ping Darkside
[08:39] <fsphil> he was here a few minutes ago
[08:40] <vk5gr-3> thanks - he should be on the road heading up to join us
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[08:44] <Darkside> vk5gr-3: hey
[08:44] <vk5gr-3> helloooooo
[08:44] <Darkside> just crossing the river
[08:45] <Darkside> going to get dinner at tailem
[08:45] <vk5gr-3> exdtra helium?
[08:45] <Darkside> yep got that
[08:45] <Darkside> you saw the pics
[08:45] <vk5gr-3> was that already on hand or did terry order it on top of clearing out BOC Mildura I wonder :-)
[08:45] <Darkside> terry ordered it i think
[08:45] <vk5gr-3> (seems the BOC guy who took the call forgot to enter it into the system)
[08:46] <Darkside> ahh
[08:46] <Darkside> damn
[08:46] <vk5gr-3> well that means we will have the 5 cylinders then
[08:46] <vk5gr-3> got the other three already at the house
[08:46] <vk5gr-3> ok on dinner in Tailem
[08:48] <vk5gr-3> should take you 4 hours from there to get here
[08:48] <vk5gr-3> gonna be a late one - figure around midnight
[08:48] <vk5gr-3> aest
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[09:13] <Darkside> mm
[09:13] <Darkside> will certainly be late..
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[09:21] <fsphil> launching tonight?
[09:22] <Darkside> no
[09:22] <Darkside> sunday
[09:22] <fsphil> ah, gotcha
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[09:37] <russss> Dragon demo manoeuvres about to start: http://www.nasa.gov/ntv
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[09:44] <cuddykid> incredible footage
[09:46] <WillDuckworth> it's good stuff
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[09:47] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: http://t.co/lw0PH6mT The big 300k on the way to Mildura. #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/205958344475807747]
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[10:15] <SpeedEvil> Unexpected phrases today:
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> 'heading towards the southwest'
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[10:17] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: do you have your helium already?
[10:19] <Darkside> hey vk5gr
[10:19] <vk5gr> hello
[10:19] <Darkside> just got out my laptop
[10:19] <vk5gr> just uploaded and fixed the cover image
[10:20] <vk5gr> saw you had put the transparent mastyer graphic up there
[10:20] <Darkside> cool
[10:20] <Darkside> matts gps is taking us the long way
[10:20] <Darkside> whoops
[10:20] <Darkside> oh well
[10:21] <Darkside> pinaroo -> ouyen -> mildura
[10:21] <vk5gr> was wondering why you were not going via karoonda - but then at least the way you are going is going to give you cellular all the way
[10:21] <vk5gr> its not that much longer i think
[10:21] <Darkside> yeah
[10:21] <Darkside> and yes, that will be useful
[10:22] <vk5gr> watching terry's progress on spot as well
[10:22] <Darkside> hehe yes
[10:22] <vk5gr> guessing you are travelling with him?
[10:22] <vk5gr> (in convoy i mean)
[10:22] <Darkside> nope
[10:22] <Darkside> he's ahead of us
[10:23] <Darkside> bu about half an hour
[10:23] <vk5gr> ahhh ok
[10:23] <vk5gr> then apri.fi would be about right for your location
[10:23] <Darkside> it is
[10:23] <Darkside> 3 min ago
[10:24] <Darkside> now, the presentation
[10:24] <Darkside> do we move primary telemetry to the start?
[10:25] <Darkside> then talk about how aprs is a modification of it
[10:26] <vk5gr> yep that would work
[10:26] <Darkside> ok kind of hard to work on this in the car
[10:26] <WillDuckworth> cuddykid - yep got a cylinder ready
[10:26] <vk5gr> you want me to shift them?
[10:26] <Darkside> vk5gr: yeah
[10:26] <vk5gr> standby
[10:27] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: great stuff - I think I'm going to try out hydrogen this time.. take the gamble!
[10:27] <WillDuckworth> let me know how you go with that and where you get it from as may be worth a try next time
[10:27] <Darkside> more people using hydrogen!
[10:28] <vk5gr> done
[10:28] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: yep :)
[10:29] <Darkside> vk5gr: #qemurulez
[10:29] <Upu> cuddykid do your home work
[10:29] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen?s[]=hydrogen
[10:29] <cuddykid> read that Upu )
[10:30] <Upu> read it again :)
[10:30] <cuddykid> just need a reg
[10:31] <Upu> they are about £140 ex VAT I think
[10:31] <cuddykid> yeah, that's the downside, but I guess it pays off in the long run
[10:31] <fsphil> about that
[10:32] <fsphil> make sure the hose has the proper connection
[10:32] <fsphil> no duct tape here
[10:35] <Upu> the acyteline hose works
[10:36] <eroomde> my considered opinion (a reckon whilst looking out the window) is that a face mask like this would be good for helium
[10:36] <eroomde> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002QS1UUI/ref=asc_df_B002QS1UUI8011695?smid=A3G8I6ZF6N4A8R&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B002QS1UUI
[10:37] <Upu> Helium ?
[10:37] <cuddykid> ;)
[10:37] <eroomde> if you are worried about it. that would save your eyebrows if the balloon were to whoomff pff into flames
[10:37] <eroomde> sorry hydrogen
[10:37] <cuddykid> yeah, good call for £6
[10:37] <eroomde> but otherwise it's not mega dangerous
[10:37] <Upu> also if you put that on and ask people to stand back they probably will
[10:38] <fsphil> yellow hiviz jacket too
[10:38] <eroomde> just be away helium burns with a flame that's invisible in daylight
[10:38] <eroomde> aware
[10:38] <eroomde> hydrogen
[10:38] <Upu> :)
[10:39] <daveake> I think fsphil got one of those masks
[10:39] <daveake> cuddykid: Don't go near the H2 with an FET :p
[10:39] <fsphil> or a soldering iron
[10:39] <cuddykid> lol
[10:40] <Upu> we took some advice from some 14 year old girls who told us "We've made Hydrogen at school and its not that dangerous it just goes Wooof"
[10:40] <cuddykid> or any electronic equip in my case
[10:40] <cuddykid> ahh yes, the good old "squeak/pop" test
[10:41] <eroomde> ah yes that was good advice
[10:49] <daveake> lol
[10:50] <fsphil> yay science education
[10:53] <eroomde> for real
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[10:54] <gonzo_> explosions are always good to tget kids attention
[10:55] <eroomde> rockets too i think
[10:55] <gonzo_> (we had the safety valve on an H2 bottle blow in a science lesson as a kid)
[10:55] <eroomde> thermodynamics has made much more sense to me since i learnt it for work (rocket engines) than on my degree (AC units)
[10:55] <gonzo_> yep, you only really learn when you do it for real
[10:56] <gonzo_> gived some real world feeling to it all
[10:56] <eroomde> you already have the mental skeleton ready
[10:56] <eroomde> so you sort of know where to place the physics you learn onto that skeleton
[11:08] <fsphil> I should get a beginner rocket kit sometime
[11:08] <eroomde> fo real
[11:08] <fsphil> try launching a little camera. keep it simple
[11:08] <eroomde> they're fun
[11:08] <fsphil> actually I must google and see if there are any local clubs
[11:09] <fsphil> and there are not
[11:11] <WillDuckworth> typical - go it alone fsphil
[11:12] <fsphil> I'll try the beginner stuff :) I might be rubbish at it ;)
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[11:22] <WillDuckworth> hey fsphil - quick question - are the ssdv images only currently decodable through df-fldigi, or will it work in other sstv software too?
[11:29] <G0DJA> Nice helicopter shot from SY99 on Twitter pic.twitter.com/4iqyGRWe
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[11:40] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/205723666590334976/photo/1 - they've stacked the test vehicle on that hopper stage.
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> For testing vertical land for falcon.
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[11:44] <fsphil> WillDuckworth: just dl-fldigi
[11:44] <eroomde> sausage egg and bacon bap
[11:44] <zamabe> BACON
[11:44] <eroomde> one of life's simple pleasures
[11:44] <fsphil> Once it matures I might see if upstream are interested in it
[11:45] <Laurenceb> has dragon docked yet then?
[11:45] <eroomde> no
[11:45] <eroomde> it's at 150m from shuttle
[11:45] <eroomde> right this second beginning approach to 30m
[11:45] <Laurenceb> shuttle?!
[11:45] <eroomde> ISS even
[11:45] Action: fsphil listens in
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> He means the secret shuttle his company has launched to ISS, and is docked on the back.
[11:46] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:46] <eroomde> it's black so you can't see it
[11:46] <eroomde> it's also the year 2020 so we've built it
[11:46] <daveake> "SpaceX to Ed. Please go park somewhere else"
[11:47] <Laurenceb> hope they have a long enough jtag cable if it goes wrong
[11:47] <eroomde> they've written 'shit parking' in the space dust that's coated the skylon
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Skylon rhymes with cylon. Coincidence? I don't think so.
[11:48] <eroomde> by your command
[11:48] <eroomde> ahem
[11:48] <eroomde> i mean 'oh yeah, so it does, i'll be blown'
[11:49] <fsphil> at least Skylon has a plan
[11:49] <Laurenceb> i think we should just use nuclear/hydrogen
[11:49] <eroomde> there's exciting shizzle
[11:49] <eroomde> going down
[11:50] <fsphil> at last, someone speaks on nasa tv
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> The BBC are launching a spacecraft soon.
[11:51] <fsphil> this is really gonig to dragon
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> It will use Auntimatter propulsion.
[11:51] <daveake> Advanced relativity?
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[11:52] <Laurenceb> dean drive is where its at
[11:52] <Laurenceb> and searl effect
[11:52] <Laurenceb> they can power it with orbo and eestor
[11:54] <Laurenceb> eestor is funny - you can see the point in the patent where they assume capacitance adds in series
[11:54] Action: SpeedEvil wants eestor, and FTL, and ...
[11:55] <fsphil> a pony?
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> I have idly wondered about making a really larg freezer with a hay-container at one end, and walking one of the nearby cows into itl
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> capture time 13:10
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> So 10 minutes
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> - I'm unsure if that's to 30m, or 10m
[11:58] <eroomde> are you sure capture?
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> err
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> 1:10
[11:59] <cuddykid> 13:10 UTC?
[11:59] <cuddykid> so 14:10 here?
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> yes cuddykid
[11:59] <cuddykid> :)
[12:02] <eroomde> cool
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[13:18] <eroomde> you can get 5kW brushless hobby motors weight 500g
[13:18] <eroomde> that's just bonkers
[13:18] <eroomde> weighing*
[13:19] <daveake> So enough for a small car in 5kg
[13:19] <daveake> How long continuous till they overheat?
[13:19] <daveake> 10 mins?
[13:19] <eroomde> enought for an electric turbopump for rocket fuel in small rockets...
[13:19] <daveake> :)
[13:19] <eroomde> turbopumps are usually like superchargers in that they have turbines driving the compressors which are driven by pre-burning some of the rocket fuel. the thermodynamics gets very complex
[13:20] <eroomde> so at small scales electrics might make more sense
[13:20] <eroomde> and the savings are great cos it means you don;t need to fly fuel and oxiders tanks that have to withstand 100bar
[13:20] <eroomde> which is what most small rockets do (i.e. they're pressure fed)
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[13:21] <fsphil> I've wondered how high a rocket can get with just an eletric motor, just pumping out water
[13:22] <eroomde> you can do the sums
[13:22] <fsphil> there's a fair few variables
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> Though it's worth noting that 100 bar - 1400PSI chamber - is not _that_ great an advantage over 200psi
[13:22] <eroomde> pick a motor power, compressor efficiency, and water mass and sim it
[13:22] <daveake> It'll go higher if you launch from the top of Everest. What with less gravity 'n all :p
[13:23] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: i'm very clearly talking about fuel and oxister tank pressures
[13:23] <eroomde> and in now way talking about chamber pressures
[13:23] <eroomde> no*
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> They're very related - for non pumped
[13:23] <eroomde> no, that's just wrong
[13:23] <eroomde> they're a bit related, not very related
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> - the implication of the 'fuel and oxidiser tanks 100 bar'
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> The injector and regenerative if any losses are often signiifcant of course
[13:24] <eroomde> i can have 100 bar storage tanks and any chamber pressure i want
[13:24] <fsphil> water powered landing rockets for a payload
[13:24] <eroomde> it's just a function of injector design and flow rates into the chamber
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Oh - I know. :)
[13:25] <eroomde> it's really not a function of tank pressures for practical designs
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> Depends what you mean by practical designs.
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> Not all designs are SSTO
[13:25] <eroomde> non sequitor
[13:25] <eroomde> back in your box please
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> No!
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> I'm out of my box, under a tree in the garden.
[13:26] <eroomde> i can't argue with that
[13:26] <eroomde> no where better to be
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Pressure fed designs have been considered not insane in some cases, by people smarter than me.
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Are they useful or sane in many or all cases - probably not.
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> np: Abracadabra (gonna reach out and grab ya)
[13:30] <eroomde> ?
[13:30] <fsphil> it's finally happened
[13:30] <fsphil> he's snapped
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> Mischan
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> It was a comment to some other channel.
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> See aforementioned comment about under tree - sunlight readability not gret
[13:31] Action: fsphil dreams of the outside world
[13:31] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:32] <pjm__> it is certainly nice sitting in the garden with a cool beer
[13:32] <Laurenceb> i looked at electric turbopumps a while back
[13:32] <eroomde> i might do that this evening
[13:32] <Laurenceb> the problem is lipo cells
[13:32] <eroomde> i have a new textbook on thermal physics which looks really beautiful
[13:32] <Laurenceb> lipo energy desity is equivalent to an isp of 260
[13:32] <eroomde> that and a beer
[13:32] <Laurenceb> which isnt brilliant
[13:32] <fsphil> thermal physics and beer. good mix :)
[13:33] <fsphil> I know little about either
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: That sounds very high
[13:33] <Laurenceb> well - at least its nice at slamm scales
[13:33] <Laurenceb> *small
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Are you sure you're not missing a G in there?
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> g
[13:34] <eroomde> i saw this book and it seems to underpin everything i now do at work
[13:34] <kokey> 1 meter per minute, to get to the capture point of the ISS
[13:34] <eroomde> thermodynamics and chemistry for rockets
[13:34] <eroomde> information theory and bayesian stuff for shiggles and work too
[13:34] <eroomde> and lots of generally interesting 'asside' chaptures on interesting topics like shockwaves
[13:35] <fsphil> I'm surprised nobody has written the HAB book yet
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> Rockets and information are related. How many bits you get out at the end of the process are important to both.
[13:35] <Laurenceb> oops
[13:35] <eroomde> true dat
[13:35] <Laurenceb> yeah 130seconds
[13:35] <eroomde> so yes, this book looks nice. it's very nicely typeset and has random little historical details too
[13:35] <Laurenceb> i was out by factor of 2
[13:36] <eroomde> it's called 'Concepts in Thermal Physics' by Blundell and Blundell
[13:36] <eroomde> who are a husband and wife professor team at ox
[13:36] <Laurenceb> heh got it
[13:36] <Laurenceb> its on my bookshelf
[13:36] <kokey> I wish I could spend tonight with a beer and a textbook
[13:36] <eroomde> Laurenceb: cool
[13:36] <eroomde> what did you think
[13:36] <Laurenceb> Blundell was my lecturer
[13:36] <eroomde> did you every have either of rhe blundells as lexcturers?
[13:36] <eroomde> cool
[13:36] <eroomde> good?
[13:36] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:37] <kokey> instead I'm going out with my girlfriend and another girl
[13:37] <Laurenceb> but i was mustly too tird/hung over
[13:37] <Laurenceb> *tired
[13:37] <Laurenceb> arg
[13:37] <kokey> I have to enjoy your learning by proxy
[13:37] <eroomde> vicariously :)
[13:38] <kokey> yeah, for sure
[13:38] <kokey> you know some guys blame their partners on preventing them from having a rock star lifestyle
[13:38] <kokey> mine is preventing me from geeking out
[13:39] <kokey> but oh well, I probably wouldn't have it any other way
[13:41] <eroomde> longer distance gf
[13:41] <eroomde> some geek-out nights, other out-out nights
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[13:50] <daveake> dragon has go for capture
[13:50] <kokey> we started with flying between gibraltar and the uk
[13:50] <kokey> then living near each other in london
[13:50] <kokey> to moving in together
[13:51] <pjm__> is there a balloon launch UK this weekend?
[13:52] <daveake> jcoxon's tomorrow
[13:55] <fsphil> nearly got it
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:56] <fsphil> and done
[13:56] <fsphil> love the little dragon on the flight controllers desk
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> Contact light.
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> hehe
[13:57] <fsphil> it's caught now, but they still need to dock it
[13:57] <kokey> "This sim went really well, we're ready to turn this around and do it for real now"
[13:57] <daveake> lol
[13:58] <daveake> SpaceX guys back in their chairs, updating their FB status
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[14:00] <fsphil> what's most interesting about these modules is that they can return to earth
[14:01] <fsphil> even the atv can't do that
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> You mean the stages of falcon?
[14:02] <fsphil> the dragon module
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:02] <x-f> ESA is working on an ATV, that will be able to return too
[14:03] <fsphil> yea, heard that
[14:03] <fsphil> also a version that can carry crew
[14:03] <fsphil> although that may never happen
[14:03] <fsphil> wonder how long before spacex do a manned launch
[14:03] <SamSilver> history in the making
[14:04] <DrLuke> "It looks like we got us a dragon by the tail" - Don Pettit
[14:04] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[14:04] <SamSilver> capture complete
[14:08] <kokey> 3
[14:09] <eroomde> i want to see sunrise
[14:12] <kokey> ah yeah that's probably why they are just holding it
[14:12] <kokey> waiting for a photo op
[14:12] <fsphil> Don Pettit has a great accent
[14:14] <eroomde> nut uh uh nut uh uh uh cpm nuh uh the nut areas
[14:14] <daveake> lol
[14:15] <daveake> Remove the "uh"s and he'd double his bandwidth
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[14:18] <daveake> Open the pod doors, Hal
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[14:24] <x-f> daveake, they have something better than HAL :) https://twitter.com/#!/elonmusk/status/204882126884188160
[14:25] <daveake> :)
[14:28] <fsphil> nice shot
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[15:25] <eroomde> don pettit looks how i imagine
[15:26] <daveake> Like http://www.hwdyk.com/q/quizimage/deepspacehomer.jpg ?
[15:26] <eroomde> not so much
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[15:48] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Eurus 1 Launch 26/5/12 1600 BST (GMT+1)"
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[15:53] <daveake> nominal stage 1 capture. They do like their nominals
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[15:53] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:54] <eroomde> it's a green dragon
[15:54] <daveake> Now they just need to puff the magic dragon into place
[15:55] <WillDuckworth> they've been chasing it for awhile
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[16:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:05] mclane (578fd1be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.143.209.190) joined #highaltitude.
[16:05] <Lunar_Lander> somehow they made it
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[16:07] <kokey> now for them to open the cargo and discover that the secret payload is actually an astronaut
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[16:08] <fsphil> "Hello"
[16:08] <daveake> Sounds familiar
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[16:27] <fsphil> hmm.. the movie puns can wait until tomorrow
[16:29] <daveake> So if I ask you to let me start now, you'd reply "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"?
[16:35] <kokey> haha
[16:36] <kokey> oh wait, my work time is over
[16:36] <kokey> I better leave the office or else I turn into a pumpkin
[16:39] <daveake> before you turn into the street
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[17:05] <choppyhorse> I am supposed to launch my first balloon next Friday, but the weather report says rain. :(
[17:09] <x-f> next friday is far enough for the weather to change
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[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> btw this is COOL https://xkcd.com/1047/
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> Aweso,me press conference.
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> I love the cheering
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[17:22] <eroomde> there are few drugs up there with actually achieving cool shit
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't get much cooler till they hit red dust.
[17:28] <eroomde> true that
[17:30] <Dan-K2VOL> haha elon is being a dork
[17:30] <Dan-K2VOL> I suspect he hasn't slept in a few days
[17:30] <eroomde> a few glasses of fizz already i expect
[17:30] <Dan-K2VOL> oh that too :-)
[17:31] <eroomde> speaking of which
[17:31] <Dan-K2VOL> I love how well HD video goes on the iPad by the way
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah and Shotwell
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> what's that for a name
[17:32] <number10> strange, my entry on arhab ballon records seems to have been removed
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[17:34] <daveake> eh?
[17:34] <Dan-K2VOL> wha number10/
[17:35] <Dan-K2VOL> where was it
[17:35] <daveake> #4
[17:35] <daveake> how strange
[17:35] <daveake> had any emails
[17:35] <daveake> ?
[17:35] <Dan-K2VOL> what record was it number10?
[17:35] <Dan-K2VOL> aw no alchohol at spacex
[17:36] <Dan-K2VOL> oh wait, it's coming back!
[17:36] <number10> no emails
[17:36] <daveake> Dan-K2VOL It was ANU at position 4
[17:36] <number10> I sent an email asking if they could look t it
[17:37] <Dan-K2VOL> on altitude or distance?
[17:37] <daveake> alt
[17:37] <number10> altitude
[17:37] <daveake> highest
[17:37] <daveake> Mine are still there
[17:37] <number10> well I am sure they will sort it out
[17:37] <Dan-K2VOL> probably a glitch or site recovered from a backup
[17:38] <number10> very likely
[17:39] <Dan-K2VOL> I think elon musk made the nasa guys on cam nervous when he said they'd allow alcohol back in the building now!
[17:39] <daveake> Well, XABEN on top has been correctly renamed as XABEN-25, so if it has been restored from backup there's been at least one change since then
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[17:41] <daveake> Check the altitude in metres for #41 :)
[17:42] <number10> 10-9 nano
[17:42] <number10> ;)
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> XD!!!
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> well,
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> and who is called Shotwell?
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> TU Delft managed to find a singularity
[17:45] <daveake> At this rate we'll be up to NUMERIC_OVERFLOW soon
[17:45] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> I've been looking at IMUs to record the motions in flight, and I had to chuckle that they still are susceptible to 'gimbal lock' (but it can easily be avoided if you don't mind awful math)
[17:47] <eroomde> it's not awful!
[17:47] <eroomde> it's pretty
[17:47] <eroomde> you can explain quaternions with a pen that has a clip on it
[17:47] <eroomde> it's v apparent what they do after a pen wave
[17:48] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe it looks awful to do on an arduino
[17:49] <eroomde> yeah you need to program some lin alg
[17:49] <eroomde> but it could be worse
[17:49] <eroomde> if you only want to record the motions then just log everything and do it on the ground
[17:49] <Dan-K2VOL> yah
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL, where did they find it?
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> lol Lunar_Lander, just referring to their NaN conversion from ft to M
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about SpaceX now?
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> got to eat brb
[17:59] <daveake> wonder what brb tastes like. Not as good as bbq I bet
[18:09] <Zuph> Anyone buy anything from itead studio lately? They seem to be having problems taking my money.
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[18:41] Action: fsphil can smell bbq
[18:42] <fsphil> it's not fair
[18:42] <fsphil> cause I'm not eating bbq
[18:42] <jonsowman> oh i want a bbq
[18:43] <Zuph> bbq for lunch. God bless Memorial day weekend.
[18:44] <Dan-K2VOL> there's a holiday?
[18:44] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[18:44] Action: daveake is eating bbq
[18:46] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: One of my 6 alloted corporate holiday days for the year. I will damn well savor it.
[18:47] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> I got pizza
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[18:54] <fsphil> I had McDonalds.. which was oddly nice
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> and my brother turned 20 years old!
[18:55] <fsphil> Mars_Lander?
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> XD no he rarely uses the Internet
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[19:04] <daveake> Lunar-tic
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> and hi nosebleedkt
[19:11] <fsphil> it's too hot again
[19:12] <daveake> Not too bad here. Pretty windy
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[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi GW8RAK
[19:25] <GW8RAK> Evening Lunar_Lander. How're things?
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> quite good, thanks and with you?
[19:27] <GW8RAK> Busy. Not time for electronics. Currently rebuilding the brakes on my road bike :)
[19:27] <GW8RAK> May be able to stop a bit better soon
[19:27] <fsphil> brakes are good :)
[19:28] <GW8RAK> Around here, they are a good idea
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[19:29] <GW8RAK> Printed out tech sheet showing how to put them back together so now to see if I can
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> Just found the manuals for the ThinkPad and ThinkCentre on the Lenovo Website
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> I think it's great that they got all the drivers and service stuff back to the IBM PCs
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> I wish they were a leetle more open.
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> I found a schematic for my current laptop
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> It'd be nice if they'd do that as a matter of policy - rathe rthan having to get it off dodgy websites.
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> they don't publish the hardware maintenance stuff for the modern computers?
[19:43] <daveake> depends on the make
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah I was talking about Lenovo
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: Hardware maintainance - yes
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: But that's block level.
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> they got all the info for IBM
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Not schematic level.
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> but not for the new ones?
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah you mean no circuit diagrams and stuff?
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:46] <daveake> Back in the original IBM PC days I worked for a place that sold lots of Olivetti machines. Then you got circuit diagrams, BIOS listings, etc
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:46] <gb73d> i had a olivetti pcs386sx
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> arduino is made in the city where olivetti is also afaik
[19:47] <daveake> Handy as my first program was a serial interrupt handler and I needed to get the 'scope out to debug it :)
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> I love the sentence from the 1920's IBM manual
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> "All parts should easily fit back together. By no means use a Hammer"
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[19:52] <fsphil> I've never used a hammer when working with a PC. maybe I'm not trying hard enough
[19:53] <daveake> ANU is back :)
[19:55] <number10> just checked ... it is daveake :)
[19:57] <number10> I am looking at skidaw at the moment thinking it would be a good place for tracking
[19:57] <number10> but I think mrs10 has different plans
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:06] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> yes?
[20:06] <nosebleedkt> got the results?
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> not yet, still doing test runs to get data for you
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[20:15] <nosebleedkt> ok
[20:15] <nosebleedkt> thanks
[20:15] <nosebleedkt> tanken :)
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
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[20:36] <Laurenceb_> http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2874927&cid=40112583
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[20:49] <ff_> Hi
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[20:49] <ff_> snyone here doing near space balooning?
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> Quite a lot of people have.
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> no, we all do just next to space ballooning
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> I don't think anyone is right now.
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> or 1/3 of the way to space ballooning
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> ;-)
[20:51] <ff_> What do you buy to power your cellphone or camera with lithium batteries ?
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> 1/200th the way to space.
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> (energy)
[20:51] <Dan-K2VOL> energizer lithium batteries typically
[20:51] <Dan-K2VOL> AAs
[20:51] <Dan-K2VOL> though you can use rechargeable lipos if you keep em warm in the sun
[20:52] <ff_> yeah but how do you power a phone with batteries?
[20:52] <ff_> Im looking for that duracell charger thing but cant seem to find the right term or product to go out and buy it
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> just power it in the charger port
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> but that brings the question of where you live and what you actually want to do
[20:54] <ff_> live in the us... Wisconsin
[20:54] <ff_> just want to show my nieces who are into astronomy somethign cool this memorial day weekend
[20:56] <ff_> Do you know what that product is called that i can put the 2 AA batteries into and plug it into the charger port of the phone?
[20:57] <Dan-K2VOL> how much prep have you already done for this?
[20:58] <ff_> bought everything have the helium tank just need the answer to how to keep the phone powered
[21:00] <ff_> k well i have to go thanks anyway
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[21:01] <Dan-K2VOL> well, that sounds like an unprepared balloonist
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[21:22] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: Eurus 1 launch, high alt floater, east to west, launch from suffolk 1600 gmt+1 tomorrow , on 434.2mhz rtty #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/206133202174214145]
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[21:24] <smrtz> hey, is r2x0t here/
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[21:28] <r2x0t> yop
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[21:30] <smrtz> ok cool can I ask you some questions about the help you gave us last night now that I'm logging this?
[21:31] <r2x0t> sure
[21:31] <smrtz> cool, thanks
[21:32] <Randomskk> smrtz: public logs for this channel are available
[21:32] <Randomskk> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/
[21:32] <smrtz> so, what type of modulation are we going to be using?
[21:32] <smrtz> thanks Randomskk I'll check those out.
[21:32] <r2x0t> FM modulation
[21:32] <r2x0t> with FSK in the audio band
[21:33] <smrtz> ok, thanks, would you mind explaining how adding your code to the code in the RTTY over NTX2 does that?
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[21:33] <r2x0t> yes
[21:34] <r2x0t> so NTX just does FM modulation, directly modulates what you send to it
[21:35] <smrtz> and your code just adds some Arduino side modulation for the FSK?
[21:35] <r2x0t> my code just works as tone generator
[21:35] <r2x0t> generating one tone for bit "1" and other for bit "0" from telemetry
[21:35] <r2x0t> it works as tone generator, outputtign square wave
[21:36] <r2x0t> if you set your output from arduino to NTX2 at 2000bit/sec
[21:36] <r2x0t> and you output 101010101010101010... sequence
[21:36] <smrtz> then how does the code on the wiki use SSB?
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[21:36] <r2x0t> it works as tone generator at 1000Hz
[21:36] <r2x0t> then by sending 1100110011001100... sequence, you generate 500Hz tone
[21:37] <r2x0t> so this is how it would work for you
[21:37] <r2x0t> but typical HAB designs just directly modulate FSK signal of NTX2 by 50Bd (or so) bits
[21:38] <smrtz> right, which is SSB.
[21:38] <r2x0t> so result is just two tones, say 434.650 +/- 200Hz
[21:38] <r2x0t> this is what is called Direct-FSK
[21:38] <r2x0t> direct, because it's directly changing frequency of transmitter
[21:38] <r2x0t> this works fine when received as SSB
[21:38] <r2x0t> but if you try to receive it using FM radio, it will probably not work
[21:39] <r2x0t> there is usually highpass filter in radio that would kill all the low frequencies
[21:39] <r2x0t> so you will not hear anything
[21:39] <r2x0t> and output will be just noise
[21:39] <r2x0t> because filter in typical radio is 15KHz wide
[21:40] <r2x0t> and HAB telemtry only 500Hz wide... that gets filtered out, so only high frequencies of noise will remain
[21:40] <smrtz> so your code sets the tone diffrence to be more than 15KHz?
[21:40] <r2x0t> tone difference = FM deviation of NTX2
[21:40] <r2x0t> this is based on voltage you apply to pin on NTX2
[21:40] <r2x0t> if you want to use my method of audio FSK keying
[21:41] <smrtz> we do.
[21:41] <r2x0t> ok, so if your data (encoded as 101010 or 11001100) are sent to NTX2 at 2000bit/sec
[21:41] <r2x0t> you will need about 4-5KHz deviation
[21:42] <r2x0t> that is set by resistor dividers between arduino and NTX2
[21:42] <smrtz> and we change that with the delayMicroseconds(xxxx) line
[21:42] <r2x0t> you can use pots for experiments, then use divider on final HW
[21:42] <r2x0t> yes, you need to change delay so output is much faster
[21:43] <r2x0t> then use my C function to encode data from normal 1/0 output
[21:43] <r2x0t> into 1010101 / 11001100 strings
[21:43] <r2x0t> also
[21:43] <r2x0t> I think typical radio should handle frequencies in ~400Hz range just fine
[21:44] <r2x0t> so you can use only 1600bit/sec output speed to NTX2 (and delayMicros)
[21:44] <smrtz> ok, so if we want 300 baud, we use 3370 microseconds in the code, and then add your code to the end of whats provided by ukhas
[21:44] <r2x0t> you want 300 bd?
[21:44] <r2x0t> wait
[21:44] <smrtz> well no.
[21:44] <r2x0t> ok, let me calc some numbers for you
[21:44] <smrtz> that was just a random number i pulled out of their code
[21:44] <smrtz> thanks
[21:45] <r2x0t> TLM rate: 50Bd
[21:45] <smrtz> TLM
[21:45] <r2x0t> target tones: 800/400Hz
[21:45] <smrtz> telemetry?
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[21:45] <r2x0t> yes, that's modulation speed of the tones in audio band
[21:45] <smrtz> ok cool
[21:46] <r2x0t> ie. speed at which real data will be send out
[21:46] <r2x0t> so
[21:47] <r2x0t> to make one 800Hz tone at 50Bd, you have to output 32bits: 10101010101010101010101010101010 at 1600bits/sec
[21:47] <r2x0t> that is bit "1"
[21:47] <r2x0t> to make one 400Hz tone for "0" bit, you output 32bits: 11001100110011001100110011001100
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[21:48] <smrtz> ohh the arduino uptputs 101010101 and the radio outputs a 1
[21:48] <r2x0t> pretty much
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[21:48] <smrtz> so this is a encapsulation method
[21:48] <smrtz> awesome
[21:48] <r2x0t> you can see it that way
[21:48] <r2x0t> it's just way how to generate another tone by outputting just bits
[21:49] <smrtz> can we take a 20 miniut break so I can explain this to the other person in the group? haha I thought you were making the radio broadcast the 101010101 this whole time.
[21:49] <smrtz> ok cool thanks
[21:49] <r2x0t> so for 1600bits/sec, delay is 0.625ms = 625uS
[21:50] <smrtz> ok. whats the equation for this?
[21:51] <r2x0t> (1sec)/(1600bits/sec) = 0.000625sec = 0.625ms = 625uS
[21:52] <r2x0t> also 1600bits/sec is double of frequency of upper tone we want to generate
[21:52] <smrtz> oh, uhh like is there a name for the equation so I can google it, like the "quadratic equation" or something?
[21:52] <r2x0t> lol
[21:52] <r2x0t> no
[21:52] <smrtz> oh ok, thanks
[21:52] <r2x0t> this just convers rate (in Hz) into time interval
[21:52] <r2x0t> bits/sec = Hz
[21:53] <smrtz> ohh ok
[21:53] <smrtz> that makes since
[21:54] <smrtz> this is all for the RTTY side of it, right? the data speed?
[21:54] <r2x0t> data speed is 50Bd, because: 1600/32 = 50
[21:54] <smrtz> right
[21:54] <r2x0t> ie. you need to send 32bits of 101010/110011 sequence to actually send just one bit of telemetry
[21:54] <smrtz> thanks
[21:55] <smrtz> oh
[21:55] <r2x0t> this overhead is used to make the audio tones
[21:55] <smrtz> can I try and finish the code, and then have you look over it?
[21:55] <r2x0t> ok
[21:55] <smrtz> sweet thanks for your help
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[21:56] <r2x0t> for testing, you can put speaker instead of NTX on output from arduino, you should hear the tones
[21:58] <smrtz> on pins 4 and 5?
[21:59] <r2x0t> pins go thru some resistors then into single NTX input right?
[21:59] <r2x0t> there are two methods, two pins and one pin only for keying
[22:00] <smrtz> let me chekc
[22:00] <smrtz> one sec
[22:00] <smrtz> heres the datasheets pic
[22:00] <smrtz> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/_detail/frontpage:guides:ava--ntxhowto2.jpg?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2
[22:01] <r2x0t> ok, so if you want to listen, it's TXD pin of NTX2
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:01] <smrtz> so I guess this woulb be the TXD pin and then to a ground
[22:01] <smrtz> oh haha
[22:02] <smrtz> cool thanks
[22:02] <smrtz> I'm looking at the code, and from what I understand, the section for getting the data from the U-BLOCKS goes where you put "FILL ME" right?
[22:03] <r2x0t> wait, I will put some more comments to it
[22:03] <smrtz> ok great thanks
[22:03] <smrtz> be right back
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[22:05] <smrtz> ok back
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[22:11] <r2x0t> http://www.r00t.cz//afskntx.txt
[22:12] <smrtz> ok cool, let me read threw that
[22:14] omega131 (ad357472@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.53.116.114) joined #highaltitude.
[22:15] <omega131> I need to Know how much helium is required to fill a 20 ft weather balloon.
[22:15] <Dan-K2VOL> http://habhub.org/
[22:15] <Dan-K2VOL> omega131
[22:15] <Dan-K2VOL> burst calculator
[22:15] <omega131> thanks
[22:15] <r2x0t> ^ there is calculator for that there
[22:16] <smrtz> ok, and the code that I use in get_telemetry_bit is all of the code provided in the wiki?
[22:16] <smrtz> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 to be exact, the second block?
[22:17] <r2x0t> hm
[22:17] <r2x0t> that code works other way
[22:17] <r2x0t> let me change the code
[22:18] <smrtz> you're changing the wiki code, or your code?
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[22:19] <r2x0t> my code
[22:20] <smrtz> oh ok. thanks
[22:21] <r2x0t> http://www.r00t.cz//afskntx2.txt
[22:22] <r2x0t> then replace calls to rtty_txbit() in rtty_txbyte()
[22:22] <r2x0t> so it calls afsk_txbit instead
[22:23] <r2x0t> reload the txt
[22:23] <smrtz> what? why?
[22:23] <smrtz> oh ok, haha
[22:23] <r2x0t> it's just bitshift...
[22:24] <smrtz> ok cool.
[22:24] <r2x0t> anyway this code makes it even more simple
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[22:32] Nick change: nick_ -> Guest94912
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[22:36] <smrtzz> hey, sorry I had some power issues
[22:36] Nick change: smrtzz -> smrtz
[22:36] <smrtz> are you still here?
[22:38] <smrtz> r2x0t: ?
[22:38] <r2x0t> yes
[22:39] <smrtz> ok, cool can I have that last link again?
[22:40] <r2x0t> http://www.r00t.cz//afskntx2.txt
[22:40] <r2x0t> then replace calls to rtty_txbit() in rtty_txbyte()
[22:40] <r2x0t> so it calls afsk_txbit instead
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[22:40] <smrtz> ok thanks
[22:41] <smrtz> wait in the void statement, or in the int cnt;?
[22:41] <r2x0t> no, in the code from wiki
[22:42] <r2x0t> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[22:42] <smrtz> ohh ok,thanks a tone
[22:42] <smrtz> on*
[22:42] <MrScienceMan> r2x0t: how is the baud rate calculation done?
[22:43] <smrtz> I don't like this keyboard very mcuh
[22:43] <r2x0t> calculation from what?
[22:43] <MrScienceMan> 1600bits/s 32bit pattern 50bd
[22:43] <r2x0t> 1600 / 32 = 50
[22:44] <r2x0t> you have to send 32 bits to get out just one bit from telemetry, so to get 50 bits out you have to send 32x that per second => 1600
[22:44] <MrScienceMan> /facepalm
[22:44] <MrScienceMan> im being stupid
[22:45] <MrScienceMan> and to increase the baud rate you just shorten the pattern
[22:45] <smrtz> where do I put your code? just add it to the bottom of the code provided?
[22:47] <r2x0t> MrScienceMan: yes, but that will also change tone frequencies, as it's all linked
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[22:47] <smrtz> what tones are we using again?
[22:48] <MrScienceMan> can you up the datarate then?
[22:48] <r2x0t> yes, you can just shorten it
[22:48] <r2x0t> so 100Bd = 16 bit patterns
[22:49] <r2x0t> tones with this config should be 800/400Hz
[22:49] <smrtz> and thats what the radio should be set to?
[22:49] <r2x0t> you should later experiment how low tones your FM radio can still listen to
[22:49] <r2x0t> and use that
[22:49] <r2x0t> because lower tones = not so short delay = less problems
[22:49] <smrtz> yeah, once the radio gets in we will, it's still in the mail.
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> In addition, squarewaves will not be optimum with FM
[22:50] <smrtz> lower tones = faster Baud rate
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> lowpassing the transmitter may give better result
[22:50] <smrtz> oh why not?
[22:50] <r2x0t> yes, lowpassing is good idea
[22:51] <r2x0t> but it's not that critical with FM modulation
[22:51] <r2x0t> you can make small passive lowpass filter easily
[22:51] <smrtz> I'll look into that, thanks
[22:52] <r2x0t> you can search for lowpass calculators, google knows many
[22:52] <smrtz> should I change the delayMicroseconds portion of the code provided to 10000 and 10150?
[22:52] <smrtz> ok cool
[22:52] <r2x0t> http://sim.okawa-denshi.jp/en/CRlowkeisan.htm
[22:52] <r2x0t> etc.
[22:53] <smrtz> cool thanks
[22:55] <r2x0t> change delayMicroseconds(3370);
[22:55] <r2x0t> to delayMicroseconds(625);
[22:56] <smrtz> and that's based off your calculations?
[22:57] <r2x0t> yes
[22:57] <r2x0t> (1sec)/(1600bits/sec) = 0.000625sec = 0.625ms = 625uS
[22:57] <smrtz> oh ok, that makes since.
[22:58] <smrtz> and then your section just remap a 0 to a "1010101"
[22:58] <r2x0t> yes
[22:59] <smrtz> oc ok cool thanks
[22:59] <smrtz> whats the section about inverted output?
[22:59] <r2x0t> you can see how it works, it just loops and outputs the pattern for every bit
[22:59] <r2x0t> it's just another way how to write it, but outputs inverted signal
[23:00] <smrtz> why would I want that?
[23:00] <r2x0t> just use first function
[23:01] <smrtz> ok.
[23:01] <smrtz> programming isn't my strong suit
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[23:02] <omega131> Where should I buy 1800 liters of helium
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> omega131: Jupiter.
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> omega131: Where are you?
[23:05] <omega131> US
[23:05] <fsphil> you might not be able to get helium in the US
[23:06] <r2x0t> in US, only terrorists need helium
[23:06] <omega131> crap there on to me
[23:07] <smrtz> so r2x0t here's what I have. http://pastebin.com/PVGUEPKk
[23:07] <omega131> I no you can get small quaintitities to fill party ballons but i don't really Know what i am looking for
[23:07] <omega131> thanks
[23:07] <r2x0t> ok, so now
[23:08] <r2x0t> in void rtty_txbyte (char c)
[23:08] <r2x0t> change all calls to rtty_txbyte
[23:08] <r2x0t> so it call afsk_txbit
[23:08] <smrtz> I thought I did that...
[23:08] <MrScienceMan> omega131: just tell them its a big party
[23:09] <r2x0t> rtty_txbyte -> afsk_txbit
[23:09] <MrScienceMan> try not to sound east european
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[23:10] <omega131> i can order a million bottles but i was looking for a good deal... terroism isnt cheap
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[23:10] <r2x0t> blow up buildings... with helium :)
[23:10] <smrtz> it's eco-friendly
[23:10] <smrtz> haha
[23:11] <MrScienceMan> eco friendly terrorism
[23:11] <r2x0t> tie balloon so big, it takes entire building to the sky
[23:11] <fsphil> helium is not renewable
[23:11] <fsphil> :)
[23:11] <fsphil> hmmm.. I smell smoke
[23:11] <fsphil> that's never good
[23:12] <MrScienceMan> nothing like the smell of a burning tunner
[23:12] <r2x0t> nothing like the smell of a burning cpu
[23:12] <smrtz> wait, r2x0t there is no rtty_txbyte in the "void rtty_txbyte (char c)" loop, its all rtty_txbit
[23:13] <r2x0t> yeah, my bad
[23:13] <r2x0t> so rtty_txbit -> afsk_txbit
[23:13] <smrtz> ok, thanks
[23:13] <r2x0t> I even named it similar
[23:13] <fsphil> aprs?
[23:13] <r2x0t> no, just FM only rx hax
[23:13] <smrtz> yeah, I just can't read.... thanks a ton r2x0t
[23:14] <fsphil> aah
[23:14] <fsphil> rtty over FM?
[23:14] <r2x0t> yes
[23:14] <fsphil> neat
[23:14] <r2x0t> just sending 101010/11001100 sequences to generate two tones
[23:14] <smrtz> fsphil: the tl;dr is this is for a school physics project, and we can't afford a SSB radio. haha
[23:15] <fsphil> aah gotcha
[23:15] <fsphil> yea it's a flaw in our system, that there are no cheap receivers
[23:15] <fsphil> yet
[23:16] <smrtz> open source one, you guys seem to have the know how. and most people will get a cheap iron and learn to solder to save the money.
[23:16] <gonzo_> find some local amateurs to assist
[23:16] <smrtz> I was surprised that there were no home brew ones suggested.
[23:17] <smrtz> gonzo_: I tried, the Amateur Radio Club here doesn't do anything with SSB, they stick to HAM
[23:17] <MrScienceMan> fsphil: what about RTLs ?
[23:17] <fsphil> if you feel like living on the edge, there's the rtl-sdr dongles.
[23:17] <fsphil> about £20, but maybe not very sensitive or selective
[23:18] <smrtz> as a receiver?
[23:18] <fsphil> but possibly still better than FM
[23:18] <fsphil> yea
[23:18] <fsphil> it's all very new
[23:18] <fsphil> and the receiver isn't really intended for this
[23:18] <MrScienceMan> what about the funcube?
[23:18] <fsphil> same flaws
[23:19] <smrtz> hmm, I wish we had done that
[23:19] <fsphil> well, it's more sensitive but can be made deaf by nearby transmitters
[23:19] <fsphil> both could make use of a narrow filter and preamp
[23:19] <MrScienceMan> is that the reason for the price?
[23:20] <fsphil> actually not sure why the funcube dongle is the price it is
[23:20] <fsphil> it's well made
[23:20] <smrtz> nice
[23:20] <fsphil> I used it to track my last flight from the launch site
[23:20] <MrScienceMan> its over 5x time the price of the ezcap one
[23:20] <fsphil> yea
[23:21] <MrScienceMan> you have a funcube?
[23:21] <fsphil> yep
[23:21] <smrtz> so r2x0t I'm off to test with a speaker, thanks for the help I'm sure I'll be back with more questions
[23:21] <fsphil> I've got both
[23:21] <MrScienceMan> what was your setup?
[23:21] <r2x0t> hope it works
[23:21] <MrScienceMan> just dongle and antenna ?
[23:21] <fsphil> laptop > funcube dongle > small mag mount antenna on car
[23:21] <fsphil> yea
[23:21] <r2x0t> I think rtl dongle with preamp may replace funcube
[23:21] <fsphil> I tracked it out to about 20km before letting my home station take over
[23:21] <fsphil> (ft817)
[23:22] <fsphil> agreed r2x0t
[23:22] <fsphil> still cheaper and more useful
[23:23] <gonzo_> the FCD is a small volume production, compared to commercial stuff, so there are some dev costs to cover
[23:23] <gonzo_> hence the price
[23:23] <MrScienceMan> the signal faded at around 20km fsphil ?
[23:23] <fsphil> some of the FCD price goes towards the Funcube cubesat project too
[23:23] <fsphil> which is a good cause
[23:23] <gonzo_> yep there is a contribution
[23:23] <gonzo_> howard certainly isn't going to get rich from this
[23:23] <fsphil> MrScienceMan: nah, just got packed up at the launch site by then
[23:23] <fsphil> nope
[23:24] <fsphil> and the funcube dongle is definitely better built than the ezcap
[23:24] <gonzo_> there will be a cheaper version for bonafide schools using it for the funcube satellite
[23:24] <gonzo_> the fcd is 16bit adccs
[23:25] <MrScienceMan> has any managed to track the whole flight with just the dongle?
[23:25] <Darkside> yeah we've done that
[23:25] <MrScienceMan> funcube?
[23:25] <Darkside> yes
[23:25] <MrScienceMan> hows was the snr ?
[23:25] <Darkside> needed preamp
[23:25] <Darkside> but apart from that was fine
[23:25] <MrScienceMan> ahh :D
[23:25] <Darkside> havent tried with the RTL dongle yet
[23:25] <Darkside> by preamp, i mean the inbuilt one
[23:25] <Darkside> dial it up to 30dB
[23:26] <fsphil> yes, one of the other advantages of the fcd
[23:26] <r2x0t> you can get minikits preamp for 70cm, kit is $25
[23:26] <Darkside> the inbuilt LNA is very useful
[23:26] <fsphil> forgot about that. more options than I'll ever need
[23:26] <Darkside> r2x0t: ends up costing a lot more thant hat if you want to use it properly
[23:26] <r2x0t> like everything :)
[23:27] <fsphil> hehe
[23:27] <Darkside> heh
[23:27] <Darkside> team member here built one
[23:27] <Darkside> that plust he boxes plus the bias tee ended up at something like $80
[23:27] <Darkside> ok back later
[23:27] <Darkside> need to check windows stuff is OK
[23:30] <fsphil> I'd better get some sleep
[23:30] <fsphil> night folks
[23:37] <omega131> I am making a bazooka antenna and is dipole what I want
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[23:40] <omega131> Is a Dipole antenna what you guy are useing when making a bazooka antenna
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[00:00] --- Sat May 26 2012