highaltitude.log.20120523

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[07:18] <Elwell> Take it people saw http://dangerousprototypes.com/2012/05/22/msp430-based-wireless-temperature-sensor/
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[07:39] <fnoble> Laurenceb_: hey, you there?
[07:40] <Laurenceb_> hi there
[07:40] <Laurenceb_> yes, got to head to work in 10 mins tho
[07:40] <Laurenceb_> got email
[07:40] <Laurenceb_> id be happy to collaborate
[07:41] <Laurenceb_> in fact i was actually most interested in trying some thumb2 asm based correlator code on F4
[07:41] <fnoble> Laurenceb_: cool, the SE4120s are in the post
[07:41] <Laurenceb_> so it might all fit together quite succinctly
[07:41] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[07:41] <fnoble> I'l send you an email with the details
[07:41] <Laurenceb_> ok
[07:42] <Laurenceb_> I've got parts of 10 "dongles"
[07:42] <Laurenceb_> so ill send a couple back to you
[07:42] <fnoble> ok, I sent 15 frontends
[07:42] <Laurenceb_> oh nice, thanks
[07:42] <Laurenceb_> i have solder stencils, so hopefully I can get it quite neat
[07:42] <fnoble> we have a bunch and I dont see us needing many in the future
[07:42] <Laurenceb_> but im not 100% sure about decoupling, I may end up with a second revision
[07:43] <fnoble> cool, yeah thats a tough one, we spent ages trying to figure out the decoupling on the FPGA
[07:43] <Laurenceb_> hallam was unsure about how well it would work without CW filtering
[07:43] <Laurenceb_> - decoupling on my se4120 was my concern
[07:43] <fnoble> depends on how you want to use it, on a noisy vehicle it may be tough
[07:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[07:44] <Laurenceb_> my sige sampler works fine taped to my laptop screen back
[07:44] <fnoble> do you have an application in mind? for experimentation?
[07:44] <Laurenceb_> i can see CW spikes, but its orders of magnitude too small to saturate it
[07:44] <Laurenceb_> mainly to prove this is possible - SW correlation on arm :P
[07:45] <fnoble> btw our code is here: https://github.com/fnoble/Swift-Nav-Code
[07:45] <fnoble> its still pretty messy but might be of interest
[07:45] <Laurenceb_> ok - i dont think ill be able to read any today :P
[07:45] <fnoble> yeah that is a good goal
[07:45] <Laurenceb_> PhD is getting a bit mad
[07:45] <fnoble> I think it should be possible
[07:45] <Laurenceb_> it would help if other people in my group actually did some work :-/
[07:45] <fnoble> what are you doing your PhD on btw?
[07:46] <Laurenceb_> biomedical optoelectronics
[07:46] <fnoble> oh, sounds cool
[07:46] <fnoble> I think last we spoke you were still at SSTL
[07:46] <Laurenceb_> im making some cheap as chips stm32 based spectrometers
[07:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah that was a waste of time, I quit soon after
[07:47] <Laurenceb_> its annoying when you realise you've wasted your time like that
[07:47] <fnoble> yeah, live and learn I guess
[07:48] <Laurenceb_> ill be finished next year, its really fun work, but I'm not sure about the industry
[07:48] <Laurenceb_> been offered a few jobs but not sure ill take up the offers yet
[07:48] <fnoble> well you are always welcome to visit us here for a few months if you wanted to
[07:49] <Laurenceb_> thankx, yeah ill have to head stateside some time
[07:49] <Laurenceb_> right gtg, cya
[07:49] <fnoble> ok, bye
[07:49] <fnoble> speak to you later
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[07:51] <Darkside> ok.. one more micronut board made
[07:59] <fsphil> how many to go?
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[08:02] <Darkside> 1
[08:02] <Darkside> for this session anyway
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[08:06] <fsphil> I should be doing my first smd boards shortly
[08:07] <UpuWork> interested to see how the soldering goes :)
[08:08] <Darkside> i have everything except for the sarantels here
[08:08] <Darkside> so i can do everything except check that the board gets lock
[08:09] <UpuWork> Item AU194161523GB was posted at 4 The Parade BD16 1RP on 21/05/12 and is being progressed through our network for delivery.
[08:09] <UpuWork> helpful
[08:10] <UpuWork> Yours is still in Dubai Darkside
[08:10] <Darkside> yeah i saw
[08:10] <UpuWork> Due end of day Friday
[08:10] <UpuWork> love it
[08:10] <daveake> Just be thankful it's not going via TNT. They don't even deliver to the right country
[08:18] <nick_> fsphil: I did that last week, the soldering was fairly easy if you have a good iron
[08:24] <Darkside> i'm atill at uni atm..
[08:24] <Darkside> as i wanted to be able ot use the decent soldering irons
[08:25] <nick_> Yeah, unis are good for equipment
[08:26] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/zXJuv.jpg
[08:27] <fsphil> on nice
[08:28] <fsphil> I feel better about my own desk now
[08:28] <Darkside> hehe
[08:28] <Darkside> its not pretty
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[08:28] <fsphil> does the job though
[08:28] <fsphil> and I love the whiteboard
[08:29] <daveake> white?
[08:29] <Darkside> theres about 15 years of stuff on there
[08:29] <fsphil> lol
[08:29] <daveake> Thnk you need a new one :)
[08:29] <Darkside> lemem get a pic of the rest of th elab
[08:30] <nick_> My lab is pretty crammed because I share it with people that make large staves.
[08:32] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/fKTeY.jpg
[08:32] <Darkside> crap panorama
[08:32] <Darkside> my desk is behing the bookshelf at the back
[08:33] <nick_> That's your only desk?
[08:34] <fsphil> what's the big blue box on the left?
[08:35] <Darkside> 900mhz anechoic chamber
[08:37] <nick_> I wouldn't get any work done if I didn't have a separate office and lab
[08:38] <Darkside> the bookshelf screens me from the lab nicely
[08:40] <fsphil> what are the odds Darkside's package arrives before mine
[08:42] <Darkside> FFFFFFFFF
[08:42] <Darkside> raining hard outside
[08:42] <Darkside> not getting dinner anytime soon
[08:44] <UpuWork> hey DanielRichman
[08:44] <UpuWork> sorry
[08:44] <UpuWork> Darkside
[08:44] <UpuWork> its sunny and 24'C here :)
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[08:45] <Darkside> :P
[08:45] <Darkside> WHY ARE WE LONDON NOW
[08:49] <gonzo_> why does rain stop dinner?
[08:49] <fsphil> the rain there is venemous
[08:50] <fsphil> -e+o
[08:51] <Darkside> gonzo_: because i'd have to walk through teh rain to get dinner
[08:52] <Darkside> i'm staying in at uni until i get these boards finished
[08:52] <cuddykid> gm
[08:53] <cuddykid> typical, it's nice weather during my exam week :(
[08:53] <cuddykid> better carry on after mon
[08:53] <fsphil> it's always nice during exams. it seems to be a rule
[08:53] <cuddykid> definately
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[08:56] <jonsowman> good morning fergusnoble
[08:59] <nick_> Is anyone from the Soton Uni group here?
[09:01] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: ^
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[09:07] <nick_> I guess it is too early for him so far today.
[09:07] <Matt_soton> yep
[09:08] <jonsowman> normally seeing Matt_soton on IRC before about midday is a rarity
[09:08] <jonsowman> today appears to be an exception
[09:08] <jonsowman> :P
[09:08] <Matt_soton> exams and stuff
[09:08] <jonsowman> haha
[09:08] <jonsowman> when are they?
[09:09] <Matt_soton> thurs fri mon tue
[09:09] <LazyLeopard> Good luck with them....
[09:09] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:09] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[09:09] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:09] <Matt_soton> also normally when im up b4 12 i have lectures ao not on irc
[09:09] <Matt_soton> thanks LazyLeopard
[09:09] <jonsowman> i kid
[09:11] <nick_> Hi Matt
[09:11] <nick_> I'm reading the letter you sent out to schools.
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[09:12] <nick_> Could we maybe discuss what you're doing after your exams are over?
[09:12] <Matt_soton> that wasnt me personally
[09:12] <nick_> I'm hoping to do something similar.
[09:12] <Matt_soton> is this lett from pop?
[09:12] <nick_> Yes
[09:12] <cuddykid> crazyness - http://news.sky.com/home/strange-news/article/16233460
[09:13] <nick_> At the moment I'm trying to design and build a small cosmic ray detector that I'd like to send up.
[09:13] <Matt_soton> what did you want to know in particular?
[09:13] <nick_> Hopefully we'll get some local schools involved so that STFC will give us some money and to make it generally more awesome.
[09:14] <Matt_soton> thers the solid state sensor method, tube method or developing film method for cosmic rays
[09:14] <nick_> I'll be using silicon photomultipliers.
[09:14] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[09:14] <nick_> With some scintillator.
[09:14] <Matt_soton> apex's attempt with GM tubes had pressur eissies
[09:14] <Matt_soton> issues
[09:15] <nick_> (assuming I can get my DAQ working and portable)
[09:15] <Matt_soton> :)
[09:16] <jonsowman> wanted to investigate further with those GM tubes
[09:16] <nick_> If I really want to push the project we'd ask STFC for a few grand sometime around September. That would be to turn it into an outreach project, so some contact with others who have done HAB outreach would be handy.
[09:16] <Matt_soton> we get some money from the physics department
[09:17] <Matt_soton> but its not a few grand
[09:17] <Matt_soton> jonsowman: i still have the tubes
[09:17] <jonsowman> oh do you
[09:17] <jonsowman> do you have all of Apex II?
[09:17] <nick_> STFC have a number of grants for <£15k for schools outreach.
[09:17] <Matt_soton> i think ben may have damaged one when he over excited took the box apart
[09:17] <Matt_soton> i dont have the core
[09:17] <Matt_soton> but its at home
[09:18] <nick_> (admittedly a decent chunk of the grant would be salary for me.
[09:18] <nick_> )
[09:18] <Matt_soton> i dont think thats the idea of where the money goes
[09:18] <Matt_soton> you also dont need that much money to do it
[09:18] <nick_> Going the official route means I have to actually work on it part time.
[09:18] <jonsowman> nick_: where/what are you based doing?
[09:18] <nick_> Luckily a part time grad student isn't all that expensive.
[09:19] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[09:19] <nick_> I'm at Oxford.
[09:19] <nick_> In my dreams I'd like to get, say, 4 schools involved.
[09:19] <nick_> Have them each do a launch and also some basic particle physics.
[09:20] <jonsowman> sorry I don't understand why you're talking about taking a salary from the grant money?
[09:20] <nick_> Send a detector to their schools for a while so they can experiment with it.
[09:20] <Matt_soton> you kinda need to work out how you want them to be involved and what you want them to do
[09:20] <nick_> Yeah
[09:21] <nick_> At the moment I'm thinking they'd do some school based testing with the detector and learn various training around HAB stuff.
[09:21] <nick_> Then on the day be involved in the launch, tracking, recovery, etc.
[09:21] <nick_> Then they'd have to analyse the data we get.
[09:22] <nick_> So they'd learn some particle physics by doing an awesome experiment.
[09:22] <Matt_soton> primary or secondary?
[09:23] <nick_> Early secondary I think.
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[09:23] <Matt_soton> also the stfc wont give you a wage from the grant
[09:23] <Matt_soton> people do outreach without a wage
[09:23] <nick_> STFC really like you to target GCSE.
[09:23] <Matt_soton> particle physics isnt gcse
[09:23] <nick_> Grad student time is quite common on outreach grants.
[09:23] <jonsowman> i don't think you should be considering paying yourself from grant money
[09:24] <nick_> jonsowman: that's how they already pay me.
[09:24] <kokey> unless you want to give it a climate angle
[09:24] <Matt_soton> either way, they can always say no when they see you want 4k or so for yourself
[09:24] <nick_> They can, but generally they don't.
[09:24] <jonsowman> nick_: all the outreach projects CUSF and others have done have been on their own time, without pay
[09:25] <jonsowman> we also funded them ourselves, but nevertheless
[09:25] <nick_> The problem is that STFC don't want me to spend a day a week working on it when they are paying me to work on something else.
[09:26] <nick_> They want me to graduate instead.
[09:26] <Matt_soton> also how dangerous is this detector that you are giving to schools (HV?)
[09:26] <nick_> If I can get the SiPMs I want then they run at 35V
[09:26] <jonsowman> perhaps it's not wise to ask for outreach funding from a body that have a vested interest in you not working too much on it then
[09:26] <nick_> jonsowman: they like to have their grad students do this.
[09:27] <nick_> And basically they say they'll put part of your grant money towards extending you studentship to give you time to work on it.
[09:27] <nick_> One of my friends wrote the LHSee app on one of these grants.
[09:28] <nick_> Their grant was almost entirely for 4 months of his time.
[09:28] <nick_> They seemed to like it enough to give him another grant for half his time as a postdoc.
[09:28] <jonsowman> well ok, but it just seem very weird to me
[09:29] <nick_> STFC are weird, I'll give you that.
[09:29] <nick_> I think the reasoning behind it is that they need you to show you've got the manpower to do what you say.
[09:30] <nick_> So for academics they need to have their head of department say they're allowed to spend some proportion of their time on it.
[09:30] <nick_> And for us lowly folk you apply for funding for some amount of our time.
[09:31] <jonsowman> Seems very odd that a funding agency are happy to be paying someone from the grant money
[09:32] <jonsowman> Most would expect the money to be spent on the projects and be very upset if they found it was being used as a salary
[09:32] <nick_> So we'd ask them for, say, £1k for launch expenses, £1-2k for equipment costs and maybe £2k so I can do a month or so's work on it.
[09:32] <Darkside> ok second board blinks..
[09:32] <Darkside> pheeew
[09:32] <nick_> jonsowman: that's pretty much their full time job.
[09:32] <nick_> The funding agency pays all our salaries for reasearch.
[09:33] <nick_> (all of us on temporary contracts at least)
[09:33] <jonsowman> weird arrangement
[09:33] <nick_> Why is that weird?
[09:33] <nick_> Who would you expect to pay scientists?
[09:33] <jonsowman> Well the whole applying for funding and a salary at the same time
[09:34] <jonsowman> it's more that most outreach projects are done on people's own time, not for a wage
[09:34] <nick_> Manpower is just part of the grant budget.
[09:34] <eroomde> not a big stfc fan
[09:35] <jonsowman> If CUSF were to apply for money from a company to carry out some research work and paid ourselves some of it, that would look terrible
[09:35] <nick_> STFC are quite annoying, although I won't complain too much, they've been paying me to work for years.
[09:35] <eroomde> i was on a project that would have funded a PhD (mine) but then that year they pulled out of all funded phd places as part of larger projects
[09:35] <eroomde> but they did it sufficiently late for me to have very little chance of getting something else sorted for a start the next academic year
[09:36] <nick_> They pulled out of the ILC while I was working on it and considered closing down the lab I was working at.
[09:36] <nick_> Fun times...
[09:36] <eroomde> so in the end i left cam and in hindsight, an awesome move
[09:36] <Laurenceb> heh
[09:36] <Laurenceb> yeah PhD is overrated
[09:37] <eroomde> stuff at work now moves much faster
[09:37] <Laurenceb> at mach 6?
[09:37] <eroomde> and i'm lucky where i work because about half the stuff we do is internal research stuff just for shiggles
[09:37] <eroomde> that can usually pay for itself later in some unforseen way
[09:37] <nick_> jonsowman: I wouldn't ask to be paid if we were getting money from a company.
[09:38] <nick_> If we were going down that route I'd just ask if companies would donate us some sensors (which will be a big part of the equipment cost)
[09:38] <eroomde> what's your research field nick_ ?
[09:38] <nick_> Particle physics.
[09:38] <nick_> I work on ATLAS for my day job.
[09:39] <eroomde> oh nice
[09:39] <eroomde> where are you based?
[09:39] <nick_> Oxford
[09:39] <eroomde> oh!
[09:39] <eroomde> me too
[09:39] <nick_> I spent ~2 years out at CERN
[09:39] <nick_> Cool
[09:40] <nick_> Are you at the uni or a real person?
[09:40] <fsphil> hah
[09:40] <eroomde> real person
[09:40] <eroomde> left uni last year
[09:40] <eroomde> which was machine learning research at cam
[09:40] <eroomde> now i work in the space industry
[09:40] <nick_> Where do you work now?
[09:41] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/shIOq.png
[09:41] <UpuWork> ping cuddykid
[09:41] <Laurenceb> when you see it...
[09:41] <cuddykid> hi UpuWork
[09:41] <eroomde> 80% of the work is for Reaction Engines Ltd down in Cullam
[09:41] <UpuWork> Nazi PCB
[09:41] <cuddykid> lol
[09:41] <eroomde> but we do other bits and bobs too
[09:41] <cuddykid> ping fsphil
[09:42] <nick_> They are the guys who did some test heat exchanger for a rocket/jet hyrbid thing recently?
[09:42] <Laurenceb> eroomde: are you aware of the JAXA precooled jet work?
[09:42] <eroomde> correct#
[09:42] <eroomde> Laurenceb: yes
[09:42] <fsphil> pong cuddykid -- I'll send that email today
[09:42] <cuddykid> fsphil: brill, thanks!
[09:42] <fsphil> infact I'll do it now or I'll forget
[09:42] <Laurenceb> eroomde: its doesnt look very clever
[09:42] <cuddykid> that was all :D
[09:42] <Laurenceb> eroomde: BUT they did get it working
[09:42] <fsphil> it's the neo-6 yea?
[09:42] <eroomde> it's not as clever as ours :)
[09:42] <nick_> eroomde: have you done many balloon flights?
[09:42] <eroomde> that's why we're all sworn to secrecy
[09:42] <cuddykid> fsphil: yup please
[09:42] <eroomde> nick_: yep
[09:43] <Darkside> nick_: hahaha
[09:43] <Darkside> hahahahahaha
[09:43] <fsphil> k, just making sure
[09:43] <Darkside> eroomde: whats the count now?
[09:43] <Darkside> 50?
[09:43] <Darkside> more?
[09:43] <eroomde> it was 50 a few years ago
[09:43] <Darkside> hah
[09:43] <eroomde> don't count anymore
[09:43] <Darkside> we're at 26..
[09:43] <Darkside> going to be 28 by the end of this weekend
[09:43] <fsphil> that's more than 10 times my launch count
[09:43] <eroomde> increasingly less frequent though
[09:43] <nick_> Maybe I should buy you a beer sometime (after my liver recovers).
[09:43] <eroomde> my heart is being a bit stolen by rockets
[09:44] <nick_> Do you launch locally?
[09:44] <eroomde> nick_: for sure, i'm always keen to meet up and talk shop
[09:44] <eroomde> nick_: i used to be president of CUSF once upon a time and did almost all the launching there
[09:45] <eroomde> nowadays jonsowman and Randomskk run everything
[09:45] <nick_> I'd like to get involved in some launches over the summer although I don't have any personal transport at the moment.
[09:45] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
[09:45] <eroomde> i'm hoping to fly soon from westcott
[09:45] <eroomde> which is the old rocket propulsion establishment, between bicester and aylesbury on the a41
[09:45] <Laurenceb> president?
[09:45] <eroomde> we test rockets there (statically) atm
[09:45] <Laurenceb> is there a CUSF anthem
[09:46] <eroomde> everyone gets a turn or being pres in cusf
[09:46] <Laurenceb> *all rise for the president of CUSF*
[09:46] <eroomde> we arranged it that way for cv purposes you see
[09:46] <Laurenceb> heh
[09:46] <eroomde> gotta keep half an eye on graduation even when you're having fun
[09:46] <nick_> What/when are you launching
[09:46] <nick_> ?
[09:47] <Laurenceb> a sabre engine
[09:47] <Laurenceb> thats why hes quite
[09:47] <Laurenceb> *quiet
[09:47] <eroomde> What is going to be a little plastic model of skylon to dangle infront of a camera to take this photo for real: http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/downloads/desktops/skylon-desktop-6_1152x768.jpg
[09:47] <eroomde> and depending on work in the next month (we've a big project coming up) it'll either be just beofr or just after the olympics
[09:48] <eroomde> the airways are being really locked down for the olympics themselves
[09:48] <eroomde> and i'm not sure i want to risk floating towards london
[09:48] <fsphil> you wouldn't want to be doing that even before or after the games
[09:48] <nick_> Is it a work launch or are outsiders welcome to help/get in the way?
[09:48] <eroomde> absolutely welcome!
[09:49] <nick_> Cool
[09:49] <eroomde> strong coffee and bacon butties provided
[09:49] <Laurenceb> will you be at Farnborough airshow?
[09:49] <eroomde> yes
[09:49] Action: Laurenceb was thinking of going
[09:49] <daveake> DITTO
[09:49] <daveake> sorry
[09:49] <eroomde> well, REL definitely will be and i'm hoping to get one of the freebie tickets
[09:49] <Laurenceb> is it crazy expensive to get in?
[09:49] <eroomde> but ill be there either way
[09:49] <eroomde> we want to show a fully crogenically tested precooler
[09:49] <Laurenceb> how much for "normal" people to get in?
[09:50] <eroomde> i'm not sure
[09:50] <daveake> We went a few years ago. Not that expensive. You get your money's worth
[09:50] Action: Laurenceb checks web
[09:50] <eroomde> the price for exhibiting made my eyes water though
[09:50] <Laurenceb> not expensive for daveake has a different meaning
[09:50] <daveake> lol
[09:51] <nick_> eroomde: do you have radio tracking equipment?
[09:51] <daveake> Oh, sorry, it was Fairford we went to not Farnoborugh
[09:51] <daveake> Too many letters common :p
[09:51] <eroomde> nick_: yep
[09:51] <eroomde> we have 4 or 5 radios and antennas between us at westcott
[09:51] <Laurenceb> £35, not horrible
[09:51] <eroomde> and a good horizon all around
[09:52] <Laurenceb> about what transport would cost anyway
[09:52] <Laurenceb> guess ill order a ticket :P
[09:53] <Matt_soton> btw UpuWork and others, can you use the i2c port on the ublox max 6 to get data from it?
[09:53] <Matt_soton> or is that just for eeprom config?
[09:55] <eroomde> i think there needs to be an stm32dude
[09:55] <eroomde> 'just put the damn code on the damn chip and make it run and work nicely in a makefile also'
[09:55] <fsphil> my understanding was the i2c can be used either for eeprom or talking to the ublox
[09:55] <eroomde> would be the spec for it
[09:55] <fsphil> I've not tried though
[09:56] <Matt_soton> i might just wire both then...
[09:56] <nick_> Is it expensive to get a radio set up?
[09:56] <Matt_soton> you using jtag, swd or serial bootloader eroomde ?
[09:56] <nick_> I thought that tracking was a useful skill I could learn before I can get involved in many launches.
[09:56] <eroomde> nick_: very much so yes
[09:57] <Matt_soton> is not expensive to set up the radio but it can be expensive to buy one nick_, unless you get a RTL-SDR thing
[09:57] <nick_> How much are we talking?
[09:57] <eroomde> Matt_soton: swd
[09:57] <Matt_soton> you can get everyones favourite ft817 for about 300 from ebay
[09:58] <eroomde> the yeasu ft-790R is an ebay favourite too
[09:58] <eroomde> more like £100
[09:58] <eroomde> it's a bit older but just as sensitive as the modern rigs, and that is absolutely all you need
[09:58] <Matt_soton> yea eroomde i havnt found a ste of stm32 tools i like yet, but most of the IDEs on windows work wit ha SDW programmer
[09:58] <nick_> £100 isn't too bad.
[09:58] <fsphil> I do like the 790
[09:59] <jonsowman> they're a bit more than £100
[09:59] <nick_> brb, boss arrived.
[09:59] <eroomde> true, though you do get lucky sometimes
[09:59] <UpuWork> Matt_soton I've not used the I2C on the ublox 6
[09:59] <jonsowman> yeah
[09:59] <UpuWork> but I ran the wires to the ports on the Sarantel breakout if your feeling brave
[09:59] <Matt_soton> i2c doesnt need strict timing like rs232 you see
[09:59] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: is that an issue?
[09:59] <fsphil> i2c is a pain to use on the avr
[10:00] <fsphil> but it would free up the uart for other things
[10:00] <gonzo_> the prob with 790's is, they are old now and there are a lot of iffy ones about
[10:00] <Matt_soton> well i found that its sensitive to slightly higher clock rates, but fine with lower ones
[10:00] <daveake> My 790R was good while it lasted, but is now a bit dead. New 817 is nice and very small, but battery life is relatively poor.
[10:00] <Matt_soton> if you use internal resonators they drift alot more
[10:00] <eroomde> do you know why it died daveake ?
[10:00] <Matt_soton> daveake: make a lipo battery mod for the ft817, cant be too hard
[10:00] <jonsowman> Yaesu are brilliant for parts & servicing though
[10:01] <gonzo_> yep that is the only -ve I can see on the 817
[10:01] <fsphil> there are 3rd party battery replacements for the 817
[10:01] <daveake> Not off the top of my head, but Bob hereabouts spent quite a while fixing bits but in the end had to give up
[10:01] <priyesh> i once got 10 hours out of the 817 battery
[10:01] <daveake> The 817 battery compartment is really a poor piece of design
[10:01] <priyesh> no idea how i did it
[10:01] <jonsowman> fsphil: any of them any good?
[10:01] <daveake> Very fiddly
[10:02] <priyesh> normally it lasts 2/3 hours
[10:02] <daveake> But otherwise a nice machine
[10:02] <eroomde> it's so theirsty though, the 817
[10:02] <gonzo_> I used to have a few 290's but got rid for a 817. Never looked back
[10:02] <Matt_soton> fsphil: also this was going to be i2c on a msp430, which may be worse or better, who knows
[10:02] <eroomde> i'd like to get a combined carry strap with battery backback or something
[10:02] <jonsowman> eroomde: yeah it uses like 300mA idle rx
[10:02] <jonsowman> for no real reason
[10:02] <Matt_soton> mixers nom power
[10:02] <Matt_soton> and it has a few
[10:03] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: others are significantly better
[10:03] <jonsowman> even the 790 is better
[10:03] <daveake> eroomde I might do that, but for chasing it can run from the car anyway. Out on foot I can take the Yupiteru scanner which just slots into a pocket
[10:03] <fsphil> jonsowman: not sure but I'm probably going to get one
[10:03] <Matt_soton> yea but it seems they didnt go for the low power parts :P
[10:03] <jonsowman> fsphil: okay, i'll be interested to see how it goes
[10:03] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: yeah
[10:03] <jonsowman> my 817 had a brand new nimh pack just before i bought it
[10:03] <jonsowman> so it's fine at the moment
[10:03] <jonsowman> but it won't last :P
[10:05] <eroomde> the sad thing about batteries
[10:07] <eroomde> it's a bit galling when you put brand new enegizer lithium ultimates into an 817 and turn it on
[10:07] <eroomde> and it litterally flashes (in real time)
[10:07] <eroomde> 13.6V
[10:07] <eroomde> 13.5V
[10:07] <eroomde> 13.4V
[10:07] <jonsowman> haha yes
[10:07] <eroomde> 13.3V
[10:07] <eroomde> it's an expensive sight
[10:07] <LazyLeopard> Eeep
[10:09] <daveake> Energizer Lithiums do that anyway - drop from ~1.84Vn to 1.7 or so in seconds
[10:09] <LazyLeopard> Reminds me, I should give my 817 a deep discharge/re-charge sometime, before I take it somewhere and need to run from batteries...
[10:09] <daveake> Then pretty flat
[10:09] <daveake> Well seconds when you're drawing 300mA or so :)
[10:10] <jonsowman> yeah mine's running down at the momen
[10:10] <jonsowman> t
[10:10] <LazyLeopard> It's a pity they didn't put a smarter charger into it...
[10:10] <jonsowman> it really is
[10:10] <fsphil> wonder where all that power's going on receive
[10:11] <jonsowman> fsphil: http://www.ka7oei.com/ft817_pwr.html
[10:11] <jonsowman> a concerningly detailed analysis of that question
[10:11] <fsphil> you know between the lot of us we could probably design and build a better radio
[10:11] <fsphil> arm core, sdr radio with switchable filters and amps
[10:12] <jonsowman> that'd be cool
[10:12] <daveake> and fldigi built in
[10:12] <daveake> and 3G
[10:12] <Matt_soton> id go for fpga
[10:12] <fsphil> yea
[10:12] <eroomde> and fly it on a hab
[10:12] <fsphil> 20ma just to select the rear antenna port
[10:12] <fsphil> silly relays
[10:12] <jonsowman> i wonder what the minimum order is on the Elonics E4000
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[10:12] <Matt_soton> 100?
[10:13] <eroomde> the day when we can have an easy, hands-off full duplex and legal 1.2kbps-ish data link with our habs is a day to celebrate
[10:13] <Matt_soton> just butcher a rtl dongle
[10:13] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: is that a guess?
[10:13] <Matt_soton> i thought the funcube was done in 100 batches
[10:13] <Matt_soton> and yra a guess
[10:13] <jonsowman> hm ok
[10:14] <Matt_soton> but you could filter -> e4k -> arm -> rtty via usb quite easily
[10:14] <Matt_soton> then that can connect to android
[10:14] <jonsowman> that'd be amazing
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[10:15] <Matt_soton> if you could create a composite usb device that is a soundcard and serial port that can talk to android that would be best
[10:15] <jonsowman> that's doable
[10:15] <jonsowman> don't know how hard that is
[10:16] <Matt_soton> is the rtl too fast for a tablet?
[10:16] <Matt_soton> all you need to do is run a CIC filter at 1MSPS
[10:16] <jonsowman> there are better things than the RTL
[10:16] <costyn_> anybody in the neighborhood of Henley? (near Ipswich) A guy is going to try to land a wingsuit without a parachute there today
[10:17] <Matt_soton> jonsowman: funcube?
[10:17] <costyn_> should be an interesting watch
[10:18] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: what does that use?
[10:18] <Matt_soton> e4k
[10:18] <jonsowman> i know
[10:18] <jonsowman> for the ADC
[10:18] <Matt_soton> it has a soundcard usb interface
[10:18] <fsphil> yea, just an audio codec
[10:18] <Matt_soton> oh, just a usb codec i think
[10:18] <Matt_soton> might be wrong
[10:18] <jonsowman> right
[10:18] <fsphil> 96khz
[10:19] <jonsowman> we could do better than that
[10:19] <Matt_soton> actually probably i2s codec with a usb micro
[10:19] <jonsowman> having 2 odd MHz of bandwidth from the rtl is great
[10:19] <Matt_soton> so are you suggesting we make a 5MHz bandwidth radio for balloons?
[10:19] <Matt_soton> or so
[10:19] <jonsowman> well, more than 96kHz
[10:19] <fsphil> it's useful for tracking multiple balloons
[10:20] <fsphil> and keeping good separation between them
[10:20] <jonsowman> 5MHz is probably OTT
[10:20] <Darkside> http://imgur.com/xtsuo.jpg
[10:20] <Darkside> done...
[10:21] <jonsowman> AVRs?
[10:21] <Matt_soton> what you want is to be able to view 5MHz but then have a really fine filter having chosen your balloon
[10:21] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: yeah
[10:21] <jonsowman> that should be doable with the rtl and gnuradio as it stands
[10:21] <Matt_soton> but ideally the filter needs to be infront of the e4k, but then you dont get your large BW
[10:22] <jonsowman> depends on the filter
[10:22] <jonsowman> but yes
[10:22] <jonsowman> point taken]
[10:22] <gonzo_> is the fcd an e4000 chip?
[10:22] <jonsowman> yes
[10:23] <Darkside> i've got a SAW filter + amp PCB in the works which can sit in front of a rtl dongle
[10:23] <Darkside> or a FCD
[10:23] <gonzo_> ah, possabilities of having the wide bandwidth on the IQ mode from the e4000, then the sound card with it;s higher resilution for the area of interest
[10:23] <jonsowman> i assume the SAW is quite narrowband though
[10:23] <Matt_soton> i suppose a SAW just on the ISM band would do fine
[10:24] <Darkside> the 3db bandwidth is about 5MHz or so
[10:24] <Darkside> its the 433.92MHz SAW filter that you an get from farnell
[10:24] <jonsowman> oh that's fine
[10:25] <Darkside> it has about 1.5dB insertion loss
[10:25] <Darkside> so overall, you'll get about 20dB gain, 2dB noise figure, with the amp i'm using
[10:25] <gonzo_> but if the saw is after the lna, that loss is not prob
[10:25] <Darkside> i'm keeping it before the LNA
[10:26] <Darkside> as i want to filter out comms traffic
[10:26] <Darkside> like, local comms traffic from other antennas on teh car
[10:26] <Darkside> noise figure isn't a big problem, and 20dB gain will be plenty
[10:37] <gonzo_> for terrestrial work, really low NF's are not needed
[10:37] <gonzo_> prob is, synthed radios have some noise conrtibution from the LO, which is never going to go away,m no matter how good the LNA is
[10:39] <gonzo_> you work out the nf of a radio, based on the uV for a guven SNR and they work out quite high
[10:39] <Laurenceb> which amp?
[10:39] <Darkside> Laurenceb: hold
[10:40] <Darkside> http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/PSA4-5043+.pdf
[10:40] <Laurenceb> ah minicircuits
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[10:41] <Laurenceb> wow thats good
[10:41] <Darkside> input return loss is a little high
[10:41] <Darkside> but its not too bad
[10:41] <Laurenceb> i have some similar spec rfmd ones
[10:41] <Darkside> should be OK for this purpose
[10:41] <Laurenceb> but dfn-10
[10:41] <Laurenceb> pita to dead bug
[10:41] <Darkside> i chose that mainly because my supervisor just bought 20 of them
[10:42] <Darkside> and i plan to test one of them out for HAB purposes, and if it works out, i'll buy more
[10:42] <Darkside> Laurenceb: http://i.imgur.com/YkmXm.jpg
[10:42] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of making an rf thermal radiometer
[10:43] <Laurenceb> saw on the front?
[10:43] <Darkside> yep
[10:43] <Darkside> standard SAW package too
[10:43] <Laurenceb> hmm
[10:43] <Darkside> can get them for a huge range of frequencies, if you're willing to pay
[10:43] <Laurenceb> upps the nf
[10:43] <Darkside> Laurenceb: yes, to 2dB
[10:43] <Darkside> how sad
[10:43] <Laurenceb> heh
[10:43] <Darkside> if you don't want it, just bypass it lol
[10:43] Action: Laurenceb dead bugged similar
[10:43] <Laurenceb> for cc1020 sdr
[10:44] <Darkside> heh
[10:44] <Laurenceb> well - island construction
[10:44] <Darkside> anyway, that board can either take 5V up the coax, ot higher voltages - it has a LDO on the back
[10:44] <Laurenceb> took a while to stop it oscillating
[10:44] <Darkside> or it can be powered separately
[10:44] <Darkside> the nice thing about that amp is it doesn't need a bias resistor - just takes anything between 3v and 5v
[10:47] <Darkside> ok time for me to get some dinner
[10:47] <Darkside> will have to brave the rain
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[11:38] <vk5gr-3> ping darkside
[11:45] <Darkside> hey
[11:45] <Darkside> im on a bus
[11:45] <Darkside> headed home
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> I'm pondering getting on a bus.
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> Busses suck.
[11:46] <Darkside> hah
[11:46] <Darkside> yup
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> I mean - they beat walking.
[11:46] <Darkside> vk5gr-3: can yoh access the google doc?
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> But it's kinda hard to pick up a sofa on one.
[11:47] <vk5gr-3> yup
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> Or a box of fish.
[11:47] <Darkside> cool
[11:47] <vk5gr-3> just confirmed that i can open for edit
[11:48] <Laurenceb> main problem in the weather is they are full of people with no air con and no ventilation
[11:48] <Laurenceb> *this
[11:48] <Darkside> vk5gr-3: ill be home in 20 min,will be able to do stuff then
[11:49] <Darkside> on my tablet atm
[11:49] <vk5gr-3> no probs
[11:49] <Laurenceb> isnt it night there?
[11:49] <Darkside> yes
[11:49] <Darkside> 9:20pm
[11:49] <Laurenceb> oh - not too bad
[11:49] <Laurenceb> i thought it was like 3am for some reason
[11:50] <Darkside> vk5gr-3: do you have skype?
[11:50] <vk5gr-3> not on the work laptop
[11:50] <Darkside> k
[11:50] <Darkside> will have to be irc then
[11:51] <vk5gr-3> yeah sorry about that
[11:51] <Darkside> no probs
[11:51] <Darkside> join the other channel
[11:51] <vk5gr-3> you might want to warn guys that the 2m repeater here is quite deaf - couoldnt really access it till I got within 30km but could hear it about 60km out
[11:52] <vk5gr-3> forgotten what the other channel name was :-(
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[12:41] <Helios> What's the ISS dragon news?
[12:41] <Helios> How many peroapsises to go?
[12:42] <Helios> Surely they got to do some orbital maneauvering in order to reach under 50km of the space station by aligning planes and then out of sync, back in sync rendezvous approaching
[12:43] <Helios> I mean Spacex has reached orbit, but here's the big question, do these guys know how to dock with the ISS and not smash into it?
[12:43] <eroomde> that is the big question
[12:43] <eroomde> and the cause of lots of the delays
[12:44] <eroomde> i.e. working on the iss docking software
[12:44] <Randomskk> it would be highly embarrassing to smash into it :P
[12:45] <daveake> Hope they took some t-cut
[12:45] <Helios> Skylab 2: Australia's revenge!
[12:45] <Helios> An uncontrollable collision has caused the ISS to smash into 9 distinct fragmetns and is scattering now over Southeast Australia and NZ
[12:45] <Helios> Thanks very much Spacex
[12:46] <Helios> "It was my first day" Elon will say
[12:46] <russss> happened before with Progress
[12:46] <russss> and Mir
[12:47] <russss> but I trust SpaceX's coding skills slightly more than post-Soviet Ukraine
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[12:48] <Helios> Californian Stoners over desperate Ukranian computer grads working their arses off to find a better life? I put my money on the Ukranian programmers, they made Tetris after all!
[12:48] <Helios> The Indians are legenedary too
[12:48] <Helios> So are the Swiss and Germans
[12:48] <Helios> Scandies are very good at coding
[12:49] <Helios> The Canadians robot arm coding is fairly straighforward
[12:49] <Helios> I think it needs a better GUI tho
[12:50] <Helios> its stll number punching, very precise movements precalculated
[12:50] <Helios> And each new crew has to learn it
[12:50] <Helios> We need a full time dock worker up there who's PRO at using that robot arm
[12:50] <fsphil> I wouldn't judge a programmer by the country he comes from
[12:51] <Helios> Elon don't know how to dock cos he's thick, he's only got to get within 20m and less than 5cm/s and the robot arm witll scoop him in
[12:52] <fsphil> or indeed any person
[12:52] <Helios> Actually I would, I think better coders come from colder countries where its better to stay indoors and code... Warmer countries you want to be out so I argue the people from the coldest country have the best programmers, Finland! Thereyago Cold as helll and those Finnish are so well organized its almost scary
[12:52] <Helios> Nokia for instance
[12:52] <Helios> That was Finnish
[12:53] <fsphil> and look what happened them
[12:55] <Helios> The Finnish are Finnished
[12:55] <Helios> They got bought out by sony
[12:56] Action: fsphil goes pack to playing his Fony Playstation
[12:56] <x-f> true, i'm more productive in winter than now, when it's sunny and warm
[12:57] <x-f> and Estonians brought you Skype
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[13:07] <Helios> estonians also brought us skyroads a long time ago
[13:07] <Helios> Maybe that idea isn't so stupid after all, a sky road where you could simply drive to the ISS
[13:07] <Helios> And there were fuel stations along the way
[13:07] <Helios> And snack bars you name it
[13:08] <fsphil> </kif sigh>
[13:08] <daveake> It's the heat
[13:08] <Helios> SKYROADS WAS AWESOME THANK YOU ESTONIA
[13:08] <gonzo_> didn't AC Clarke also suggest tethered space stations with a lift system?
[13:09] <Helios> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJZqlPF8Opo
[13:09] <Helios> Always brings tears to my eyes
[13:11] <Helios> I think there was a Kazakh long before him
[13:11] <Helios> who thought of a spaceroad elevator escalator stairway to heaven physical construction thing yes
[13:11] <gonzo_> (led zep)#
[13:11] <Helios> Trick is to build a spiral road that goes to geostationary orbit
[13:11] <Helios> At which point you will just float
[13:12] <Helios> A mass transit to zero g system
[13:12] <eroomde> ah you alright Helios ?
[13:12] <eroomde> are*
[13:12] <Helios> More people should experience zero g
[13:12] <eroomde> phonetic typos, awesome
[13:12] <gonzo_> many experience zero IQ
[13:12] <daveake> There's a bustle in his hedgerow
[13:13] <Helios> Maybe we need to look at that tower in Dubai and wonder how you make road columns thousands of times taller than that, how do you do it?
[13:13] <gonzo_> need to look at it as a suspended struct, rather than supported
[13:14] <gonzo_> so bigger/stronger at the top than the bottom.
[13:14] <gonzo_> how freaky would that look!
[13:14] <Helios> If only it weren't so politically inconvenient, Mt Everest would make the best site for any mass zero g transport as that is the point on the Earth where gravity is weakest on land
[13:15] <fsphil> is it?
[13:15] <fsphil> [citation needed]
[13:15] <gonzo_> there are powers that will happilly sweep other govemrnments aside if it suits
[13:18] Action: fsphil goes back to playing his Pretendo DS
[13:18] <gonzo_> (though, 100yrs of so ago it was us english doing that)
[13:19] <Helios> Bring China on board the ISS in exchange for one Russian One American pay the Chinese for seats
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[13:19] <Helios> Let them dock their modules to it
[13:19] <Helios> Open up the borders in Nepal and India and China
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[13:19] <x-f> Helios, with such a mountain underneath it cannot be the place with weakest gravity
[13:19] <Helios> Turn Nepal into a rocked sledge factory that deploys strts
[13:19] <Helios> They've already started
[13:20] <Helios> These concrete empty rooms going sideways out of the himalaya
[13:20] <daveake> Sound useful
[13:20] <daveake> Do they have strong locks?
[13:21] <Helios> The Chinese Docking locking mechanism came from Russia, its an exact Chinese built copy of the Soyuz module, it can mate with any of the Soyuz ports
[13:21] <Helios> The Space shuttle port is now disused
[13:21] <Helios> But I think even Dragon will use a Soyuz port won't it?
[13:21] <Helios> Its sort of the internationally accepted docking universal thing and the Americans wanted to be difficult and have their own mechanism
[13:22] <Helios> That first docking with ATSP was windy as fuck
[13:22] <Helios> Loads of cabin pressure loss, not good
[13:22] <Helios> Bad design
[13:22] <Helios> But it worked
[13:23] <LazyLeopard> The Tibet plateau is an area with unusually thick lithosphere, which is of lower density than the mantle underneath, so yes, there is a slight gravity anomoly there. Emphasis on slight. Probably out-weighed (from a space launch point of view) by a vary large margin because it's a bit far from the equator.
[13:24] <Helios> Its closer than a lot of European launch sites, The Russians hate giving kazakhstan money for Baikonur they're moving shop to the far far east
[13:24] <Helios> Near vladivostok sort of way
[13:24] <Helios> Russias a big place they don't tell you where they're building moon rockets
[13:24] <Helios> Too much risk of sabotage
[13:24] <LazyLeopard> Yes, the Russians lack good equatorial locations.
[13:25] <Helios> I say buy out Nepal, employ the Nepalese people invite India, China, ESA, NASA, Canadarm team, ROSKOSMOS, Israel, UK, Iran AND North Korea and we work on an international launch complex that is fair and is globally run
[13:26] <Helios> It would also result in a lot less spent on small arms and more on big rockets, which is good
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> That's likely to lead to huge cost increases.
[13:26] <LazyLeopard> Save youself all the invading and pick somewhere equatorial you can buy...
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> Equatorial is good for GEO, of course.
[13:27] <Helios> What's wrong with the ESA's French Guinia site? loads of countries have gone into Ariane
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> But not so much for inclined orbits.
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> It also adds transport costs.
[13:27] <Helios> I liked the guts of that ATV-3
[13:27] <Helios> That was a good little video
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> And integration costs.
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> I can't wait to see SpaceX's lander stage on falcon 9.
[13:27] <Helios> Just a load of bags carefully and optimally stacked in these cardboard aluminum foil shelves with straps
[13:27] <Helios> Loads of white bags
[13:27] <Helios> One of them opened up a bag and showed some food
[13:27] <Helios> No sound
[13:28] <LazyLeopard> You still get a rotational boost, so it still helps with inclined orbits, but just not so much. Polar orbits, on the other hand...
[13:28] <Helios> They don't want you to know how bad things have gone up there
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> LazyLeopard: Indeed.
[13:28] <Helios> And they opened these valves
[13:28] <Helios> You could send people on that Ariane
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> You could.
[13:28] <Helios> You could send people on Dragon
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Frankly - I'd be quite happy to go on the next Dragon flight.
[13:28] <Helios> You could even tell them to bring back the shuttle and do a few more re-fits
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> As long as I can chuck stuff overboard.
[13:29] <Helios> Or build a new generation shuttle
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> Shuttle is really questionable as a concept.
[13:29] <eroomde> you want a different kind of shuttle
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> It's good for deorbiting large things accurately if you want to keep them.
[13:29] <eroomde> one that's completely reusable
[13:29] <eroomde> can take off and land on a runway
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> That.
[13:29] <Helios> Its a bomber
[13:29] <eroomde> doesn't need to be stripped down every time
[13:29] <Helios> The air force have their own shuttles
[13:29] <eroomde> anyway, i'll just go back and do what i was doing
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> That's the only argument for a shuttle -like-thing really.
[13:30] <gonzo_> shuttl;e was intened to have air breating deployable engines for landing, rather than glide
[13:30] <jonsowman> on a different topic
[13:30] <jonsowman> whose is the pico launch this weekend?
[13:31] <Helios> The engines were considered "added weight"
[13:31] <UpuWork-> yeah lets keep it on topic please
[13:31] <Helios> They came up with SSME out of J-2 Appolo era research done by rocketdyne
[13:31] Nick change: UpuWork- -> UpuWork
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[13:31] <Helios> They employed Nazi V2 scientists
[13:31] <UpuWork> Helios please on topic thanks
[13:32] <Helios> Werner Wonn Braun was a Nazi!
[13:32] <number10> top four altitude records on arhub are UK
[13:32] <jonsowman> ukhas calendar just says "PICO"
[13:32] <Helios> But he still got a man on the moon
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[13:32] <UpuWork> ta
[13:32] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he had a little bit of funding to work on his own rocket.
[13:33] <gonzo_> btw where are the pico flights on the launch list? Are they separate ly listed?
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> (~100K or so would be nice)
[13:33] <russss> we do get some odd people in this channel
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> russss: Indeed.
[13:33] <jonsowman> gonzo_: i'm looking at the ukhas calendar
[13:33] <gonzo_> it's a basic requirement of joining this chan!
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> russss: Some of them are taking the Towelie approach to high altitude.
[13:33] <jonsowman> 12-4 this saturday, "PICO Launch"
[13:33] <jonsowman> time to test my sdr :)
[13:34] <WillDuckworth> chortle
[13:34] <Zuph> Anyone have any luck with the hacky TV Receiver SDRs?
[13:34] <priyesh> jonsowman: it's says Suffolk as launch location, but no project name
[13:34] <jonsowman> oh that sounds like James
[13:35] <jonsowman> Zuph: several of us are getting there :)
[13:35] <jonsowman> i've got one decoding RTTY, intend to try it on the next launch
[13:35] <priyesh> yeah, I think he mentioned something about a launch
[13:35] <Zuph> jonsowman: Neat. I think i'll order one up from China
[13:35] <jonsowman> they're still a bit of a faff, but they've got a lot of potential
[13:36] <WillDuckworth> where's the launch calendar? on habhub?
[13:36] <jonsowman> it's a google calendar
[13:37] <jonsowman> there's a link to add it on the mailing list somewhere
[13:37] <priyesh> http://habitat.habhub.org/calendar
[13:37] <jonsowman> ta priyesh
[13:37] <WillDuckworth> cool -thanks
[13:38] <WillDuckworth> guess that's dynamic from payload docs yeah?
[13:38] <jonsowman> correct
[13:38] <WillDuckworth> v good :)
[13:40] <jonsowman> Randomskk did it, not me :)
[13:40] <jonsowman> in about 23 minutes as well iirc
[13:41] <WillDuckworth> good -stuff - have they sorted the ability to allow us to update flight docs yet do you know?
[13:41] <jonsowman> not yet
[13:41] <jonsowman> you still need direct access to couch
[13:41] <jonsowman> via futon
[13:42] <WillDuckworth> sounds a bit laid-back to me
[13:42] <jonsowman> haha
[13:43] <SamSilver> get a hamock and be done
[13:43] <priyesh> jonsowman named the sport 'speed-coding'
[13:43] <jonsowman> it was basically just harrassment to be honest
[13:43] <priyesh> took 24 mintues
[13:43] <priyesh> *t
[13:44] <jonsowman> never mind
[13:45] <priyesh> some challenges are too hard to turn down
[13:45] <Randomskk> 24 minutes?
[13:46] <Randomskk> I promised 20 but I think some annoying last bit took like 50%
[13:46] <Randomskk> 80/20 rule as ever
[13:46] <priyesh> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20120410.html
[13:46] <priyesh> you took > 2 minutes to deploy it
[13:46] <Randomskk> ah deployment
[13:46] <priyesh> even though it was a reverse proxy to a screen session :P
[13:46] <Randomskk> always a hassle
[13:46] <Randomskk> should have used heroku
[13:46] <priyesh> is heroku free?
[13:46] <Darkside> oh yeah
[13:47] <Darkside> better get the flight docs for trhsi weekend sorted out
[13:47] Nick change: phuzion_ -> phuzion
[13:47] <Darkside> Randomskk: HORUS and DARKSIDE as they are now, as long as they are OK for this weekend
[13:48] <Darkside> i also need a duplicate of OSIRIS, i think i'll be calling it PETUNIA, i.e. from the falling bowl of petunias
[13:48] <Darkside> and that will need the same hax as osiris
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[14:02] <daveake> re Pico - James did say he was launching this weekend
[14:02] <jonsowman> ta daveake
[14:05] <Randomskk> "PICO" is jame's payload name
[14:05] <Randomskk> james'*
[14:06] <Randomskk> rather than a generic term
[14:07] <fsphil> james is launching but it's not a pico
[14:07] <Randomskk> highly confusing
[14:07] <priyesh> :S
[14:07] <jonsowman> :\
[14:11] <fsphil> it's not that confusing :p
[14:12] <fsphil> I might do a pico launch over the holidays
[14:12] <fsphil> although I think the winds will carry it north over the altantic
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[14:26] <SamSilver> 10 mins to take off for wingman and then his landing will be WTF http://news.sky.com/home/strange-news/article/16233460
[14:27] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Lift calculations and hardbodies?"
[14:34] <cuddykid> oh chebyshev why did you have to come up with a ridiculous equation
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[14:39] <eroomde> oh god oliver dp
[14:39] <x-f> SamSilver, looks like he did it
[14:39] <SamSilver> no sky tv here
[14:40] <SamSilver> keen to see his landing
[14:40] <eroomde> 'how do you calculte bouyancy' and 'i wanted to build a buckminster fullerene-esque rigid floating structure' are mutually incompatible if being asked by the same person
[14:40] <x-f> SamSilver, there's a twitter update
[14:40] <SamSilver> I am watching Sky on line but no video
[14:41] <cuddykid> lol eroomde
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[14:42] <cuddykid> successfully landed apparently
[14:42] <SamSilver> wonder if Sky has sole rights to video
[14:42] <SamSilver> realy want to see this
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[14:43] <fsphil> it's not something you really get a second chance at
[14:43] <SamSilver> have seen a few of Jeb Corliss's "flying" stunts
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[14:51] <Laurenceb> sweet
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[14:54] <Laurenceb> where is the landing video?
[14:57] <Laurenceb> i dont see landing video
[14:57] <Laurenceb> no video == fake
[15:00] <Laurenceb> oh he hasnt flown yet
[15:00] <SamSilver> never happened
[15:00] <Laurenceb> where is the news?
[15:00] <Laurenceb> is there a website?
[15:01] <SamSilver> http://news.sky.com/home/strange-news/article/16233460
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[15:10] <russss> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/205314559542693888
[15:11] <eroomde> supagreen
[15:17] <Laurenceb> wow dorks are depressing
[15:18] <Laurenceb> just had to meet some tarduino fanbois :(
[15:19] <eroomde> ?
[15:19] <fsphil> sounds ackward
[15:19] <Laurenceb> it was like the IT crowd but in real life
[15:19] <jonsowman> did you try turning it off and on again?
[15:20] <Laurenceb> i should have said that when they started trolling each other about android/ios
[15:20] <fsphil> what age where they?
[15:21] <Laurenceb> about 45
[15:21] <fsphil> eek
[15:21] <Laurenceb> and they smelt of bad bo
[15:21] <Laurenceb> and wanted help with their arduino
[15:21] <Laurenceb> i think that says enough
[15:22] <Laurenceb> now if it wasnt too hot i could get back to some actual work :-/
[15:22] <fsphil> yea. summer seems to have started very suddenly
[15:23] <fsphil> I took a walk around the factory earlier, about 2 minutes, and my eyes are stinging
[15:23] <fsphil> stupid hayfever
[15:23] <eroomde> a condition where you get really excited about literary festivals
[15:24] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:24] <Laurenceb> maybe someone here can help me, i want to do piecewise polynomial fit to some data in matlab
[15:24] <Laurenceb> but i want to find where i should transition between the two
[15:24] <Laurenceb> to give the best fits
[15:24] <fsphil> afraid I don't understand the question
[15:24] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:25] <Laurenceb> do you call it the break point?
[15:25] <Laurenceb> yes - http://www.mathworks.co.uk/help/techdoc/ref/mkpp.html
[15:25] <Laurenceb> is there a nice way to do this than looping through doing fits ?
[15:25] <Laurenceb> *nicer
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[15:45] <cuddykid> oo, raspberry pi order time!
[15:48] <UpuWork> Got it ?
[15:48] <nick_> I've got mine
[15:48] <UpuWork> I have one on order to play with
[15:48] <nick_> I really should swing by my college and pick up my SD card so I can run it though.
[15:48] <cuddykid> no, just got an email from RS telling me I can now place order :)
[15:49] <UpuWork> ah ok :)
[15:49] <UpuWork> We've had one here already
[15:49] <cuddykid> though, it looks like there's no option to pick up from store :( - almost £5 for delivery
[15:49] <cuddykid> UpuWork: any good?
[15:49] <UpuWork> but the guy who got it realised he could double his money immediately by selling it on Ebay
[15:49] <UpuWork> no idea he sold it immediately
[15:49] <cuddykid> yeah, I've just seen they're going for +£60
[15:49] <nick_> I was ~200 people away from getting the first batch.
[15:50] <UpuWork> want to see if if can do SDR
[15:50] <UpuWork> or the touch screen I have
[15:50] <UpuWork> or in car tracker
[15:51] <UpuWork> many ideas I ahve
[15:51] <cuddykid> yep
[15:51] <cuddykid> :D
[15:51] <UpuWork> nothing that couldn't be done with an ITX board mind
[15:51] <cuddykid> UpuWork: have you managed to place an order yet?
[15:51] Action: fsphil ponders reselling
[15:51] <fsphil> anyone want a pi? only £50? :)
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[15:52] <nick_> It's not worth reselling now
[15:52] <UpuWork> yeah placed last week
[15:53] <UpuWork> I don't know
[15:53] <UpuWork> £65
[15:53] <fsphil> I've it busy compiling stuff anyway
[15:53] <UpuWork> is what they are going for now
[15:53] <cuddykid> oops, I went away from the site - now my "authorisation code" won't work :/
[15:53] <fsphil> only £80 cuddykid
[15:53] <fsphil> including p+p :)
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[15:53] <cuddykid> haha
[15:54] <fsphil> nuts, email. I'm getting forgetful
[15:58] <cuddykid> fsphil: sent payment :)
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[16:02] <WillDuckworth> fsphil - i think a pi is a prime candidate for you ssdv stuff
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[16:03] <WillDuckworth> your
[16:03] <fsphil> it is indeed. I think we worked out that the rpi+usb camera is cheaper than an avr and the uart cameras
[16:04] <fsphil> you can get two raspberry's for the price of the uart camera alone
[16:04] <WillDuckworth> cool - what cam do you think? any that gets recognised i suppose
[16:04] <Randomskk> fsphil: did you see the new rpi camera?
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[16:04] <Randomskk> plugs into the camera header
[16:04] <fsphil> not sure yet. I'm still keeping an eye out for something without a rolling shutter
[16:04] <fsphil> I've read one was coming Randomskk, has be been released?
[16:04] <daveake> Let me know when it is :)
[16:04] <Randomskk> seen a lot of articles about it in the last day or two. not sure if released or just ready to go
[16:05] <fsphil> will have a google tonight
[16:05] <nick_> They are trying to source a cheap camera, no release yet.
[16:05] <fsphil> I'm going to try some NBTV with the rpi too
[16:06] <fsphil> narrow band telly, 15-fps video with a low resolution
[16:06] <cuddykid> I guess we're going to have battery life probs with the pi?
[16:06] <eroomde> just put 2kg of batteries up
[16:06] <kokey> I wonder how long it will take to get a raspberri pi if I order one now
[16:07] <eroomde> we'll be back to the days of 3kg payloads again
[16:07] <fsphil> there's a good experiment, see how long it runs of four energiser ultimates
[16:08] <fsphil> it's got that silly microusb power socket
[16:09] <fsphil> wonder if there's an easy to get at header
[16:09] <eroomde> poe is the new black
[16:09] <eroomde> PoE i should say
[16:10] <eroomde> i'm working on some new data loggers for work and PoE solves a myriad of problems with keeping everything isolated
[16:10] <nigelvh> What you guys don't tether your balloons with 41km of cat6 cable?
[16:10] <daveake> No ...
[16:11] <daveake> ... that'd be more than 2km too short ... :p
[16:11] <Randomskk> eroomde: it would be nice if it were more prevalent in consumer kit
[16:11] <fsphil> lol
[16:11] <eroomde> yeah
[16:11] <eroomde> it would
[16:11] <fsphil> I feed power to my nest boxes through cat5
[16:11] <nigelvh> For us non record holders 41km would be plenty thank you very much.
[16:11] <daveake> lol
[16:11] <nick_> I'd like to get my cosmic detector running off PoE
[16:12] <SamSilver> 36 sec video of wingman landing without deployed parachute http://news.sky.com/home/video/strange-news/video/16234036
[16:12] <nick_> And said I will have done in a conference abstract :S
[16:12] <cuddykid> wonder how high you could get with a 3000G Hwoyee & 40g payload ...
[16:12] <fsphil> not as high as you'd think
[16:13] <daveake> Not many have flown 2000g Hwoyees, and they didn't seem to have any advantage of the 1600s
[16:13] <eroomde> the 3000g balloons are not that great
[16:13] <eroomde> i've wasted a lot of time on them in the past
[16:13] <daveake> not cheap either
[16:13] <eroomde> they're good as stratospheric tugs for heavy things but they dont stretch very well
[16:13] <eroomde> no, not cheap
[16:14] <eroomde> i think i've flown 7 or 8 of them
[16:14] <eroomde> dread to do the maths
[16:14] <fsphil> one without a payload iirc?
[16:14] <daveake> :D
[16:14] <jonsowman> haha
[16:14] <fsphil> I wonder what altitude that one got to
[16:14] <daveake> I bet that shot up
[16:15] <eroomde> it was like a bat out of hell
[16:15] <daveake> gone before the morning comes
[16:15] <nigelvh> Because obviously bats fly faster when coming from hell.
[16:16] <daveake> Well I would if I were a bat
[16:16] <fsphil> ohm time
[16:16] <eroomde> go on then, leave
[16:16] <nigelvh> Really all things considered, we've got a lot more to look at bats for than their flight speed if they can cross supernatural barriers into the plane of hell.
[16:16] <eroomde> we won't resist
[16:16] <daveake> it is currently
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[16:17] <daveake> Evening number4
[16:17] <cuddykid> daveake: do you run 2 or 3 aa's on your picos?
[16:17] <daveake> 3 atm
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[16:18] <cuddykid> leaving room for even higher altitudes :P
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[16:19] <daveake> What is it, 7g for an AAA? Add say 1g for a DC-DC so you're saving 6g. That'll get you between 6 and 24 metres extra depending on whose maths you believe
[16:20] <daveake> I missed out by 82m to a heavier payload; weight isn't everything
[16:20] <number10> evening daveake
[16:20] <daveake> Or in other words, once you get below 100g payload I don't think extra savings are worth worrying about
[16:20] <cuddykid> I guess so
[16:21] <cuddykid> there's always inaccuracy in filling anyway
[16:21] <nick_> What did you send up as a 100g payload?
[16:21] <nick_> Just GPS and a radio
[16:21] <nick_> ?
[16:21] <cuddykid> just down to whether your chinese labourer was feeling good or not on the day he/she was making your Hwoyee
[16:21] <number10> just put a camera on it, gsm tracker, 4AAs, super heavy string and some swivels - 50g of tape and get to 42545m
[16:22] <daveake> Yes, there's more variance between balloons and due to the fill and ascent rate than there is between small payloads
[16:22] <daveake> nick_ Mine was 40g. GPS/radio/processor/temperature
[16:23] <daveake> number10 Indeed, yours got pretty high even with a regular camera on board
[16:23] <nick_> How far do you travel getting to and from these heights?
[16:24] <number10> you mean to recover?
[16:24] <daveake> You mean how far is the landing spot from the launch spot?
[16:24] <daveake> Anything from zero to 100's of miles
[16:25] <nick_> yes
[16:25] <nick_> In the flight you are talking about.
[16:25] <daveake> About 90 miles away by road
[16:25] <daveake> It floated for over an hour
[16:26] <daveake> The other 2 flights at the same time only went 20 miles or so I think
[16:26] <daveake> But floaters have been known to cross Europe
[16:27] <nick_> By floating you mean getting up to altitude and not bursting for a while?
[16:27] <daveake> yep
[16:27] <nick_> How long was the total flight?
[16:28] <daveake> About 4 hours I think
[16:28] <nick_> Is it quicker for light loads?
[16:29] <daveake> It depends on the balloon size, payload weight, and how much gas you put in.
[16:29] <daveake> Normally you'd aim for about the same ascent rate, so a heavier payload means more gas to compensate
[16:29] <nick_> OK
[16:30] <nick_> Although why?
[16:30] <daveake> why what?
[16:30] <nick_> Why do you wnat the same ascent rate?
[16:31] <daveake> Because if it's too slow it may float, and if it's too fast it'll burst early
[16:32] <daveake> Depends on the balloon too. The 1600g Hwoyees seem to be more prone to floating, so a slowish ascent on those (say 4m/s) is likely to end up as a float, whereas on another balloon it may be OK.
[16:32] <daveake> 5m/s is a good figure to aim for generally
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[16:34] <nick_> I'd quite like to do a flight with maximised flight time. Could I just go for a slow ascent rate and some abort in case of floating away?
[16:34] <daveake> yes
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[16:42] <eroomde> plan to cycle home aborted
[16:42] <eroomde> boss: 'an evening like this warrants a beer after work surely?'
[16:42] <nick_> eroomde: do you work in the science park thing on the ringroad?
[16:42] <eroomde> nick_: i work at Westcott
[16:43] <eroomde> which userd to be the rocket propulsion establishment
[16:43] <nick_> OK
[16:43] <eroomde> we are here because have have a couple of very nice rocket test stands
[16:43] <eroomde> with built in bunkers, water deluge systems, everything rated to 10 tonnes TNT equivalent etc
[16:44] <nick_> cool
[16:44] <nick_> Are you always based there, or just during testing?
[16:44] <eroomde> mostly there
[16:44] <eroomde> we can make lots of noise, have plenty of whiteboards and cnc tools
[16:45] <nick_> And you cycle back to Oxford from there?
[16:45] <eroomde> we can get stuff done very quickly
[16:45] <eroomde> yep
[16:45] <eroomde> it's about 22 miles
[16:45] <eroomde> i stopped cycling for a month and put on a stone
[16:45] <eroomde> so i've started again this week
[16:46] <nick_> I don't cycle, but you'd have to be pretty hardcore to have cycled through the month of downpour.
[16:46] <eroomde> yes that too
[16:46] <eroomde> i'm entirely pragmatic and unreligious about it
[16:47] <eroomde> if the weather's crap i don't bother
[16:47] <eroomde> it's no fun sharing the A41 with lorries at the best of times
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> You have to drastically reduce your food intake if you do that.
[16:47] <eroomde> but with the spray it wasn't good
[16:47] <nick_> You go along the A41 and the A34?
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> If your figures are accurate - a stone a month is 1600 calories extra a day
[16:47] <eroomde> i don't do the a34 - that's just too busy and fast
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> That's a whole 800g loaf, or a pound of bacon.
[16:48] <eroomde> i take the country road the runs parallel to it through islip, merton, abroseden etc
[16:48] <eroomde> it's a lovely road infact
[16:48] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: about right. my cycle computer reckons the bike rise is 1400 cals each way
[16:48] <eroomde> based on gps track, my age and weight
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> I really want nice CO2 sensors to make an expired CO2 meter
[16:49] <eroomde> so basically it's 2500 calories a day or 5000 calories a day
[16:49] <nick_> I need to get my motorcycle license sorted and get back on the road.
[16:49] <eroomde> i much prefer the later as i can eat whatever i want and it doesn't matter
[16:49] <nick_> Just outside of Oxford seems so much better than Oxford.
[16:49] <eroomde> i live relatively centrally in ox
[16:49] <eroomde> well, osney island
[16:49] <eroomde> i love it there
[16:49] <eroomde> so close to town but so quiet
[16:49] <nick_> I'm soon to move out to Kidlington.
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> 5000 a day seems unlikely - that's a whole kilo of cheese.
[16:50] <eroomde> my colleague lives there
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Or a hundred oranges.
[16:50] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: ask anyone about me and cheese
[16:50] <nick_> At the moment I live off the Abingdon road an dhave to walk through the center to get to and from work.
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:50] <eroomde> i will happily demolish a kilo of cheese without realising it
[16:50] <eroomde> nick_: where is your office - physics dept?
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Gotta keep doing a lot of excercise then, unless you want to do Jabba the Hutt cosplay.
[16:50] <nick_> yeah
[16:52] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: exactly
[16:52] <eroomde> hence the 1 stone in a month of not cycling
[16:52] <eroomde> i used to play rugby quite seriously up to about 18
[16:52] <eroomde> unfort i am used to that way of eating
[16:53] <eroomde> so eating less is not really much of an option (I love food and cooking too much) so the slack must be taken by exercise
[16:54] <eroomde> pcb pool send you picture upades of your pcbs as they make them
[16:54] <eroomde> a nice touch
[16:54] <eroomde> i just got a picture of a sheet of copper-clad with holes drilled
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[16:56] <nigelvh> That's neat
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[17:06] <SpeedEvil> I've taken to - instead of doing recorded delivery - which would require a trip to the bus - taking a video snap of me dropping the addressed letter into the box.
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> - for my teeny bookselling on amazon
[17:06] <eroomde> isn't the point of recorded delivery for insurance?
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[17:07] <eroomde> rather then to literally record the delivery
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> Part of it is so you can say to buyers 'I really posted it'
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> If the stuff isn't that valuable - and you're willing to refund without question - it's not worth doing that.
[17:10] <eroomde> fairy nuff
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> Plus - it's great for recordskeeping.
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> Though I did once find out when I got back that I'd posted the book to _completely_ the wrong address.
[17:12] <LazyLeopard> Oooops...
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Free book for an earlier buyer, oops email and refund.
[17:14] <MrScienceMan> I usually forget to put any papaers/invoces until the package is well wrapped
[17:14] <MrScienceMan> and I have to go through the pain of destroying my prestine wrap
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[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:39] <fsphil> ello llo lo o ......
[18:40] <jonsowman> evening fsphil
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil jonsowman
[18:41] <fsphil> it's silly hot here. brilliant
[18:41] <jonsowman> it's cold in cambridge
[18:41] <jonsowman> well, not cold. but certainly not hot
[18:42] <LazyLeopard> yet almost sweltering down here just south of London... Odd.
[18:42] <Randomskk> it was warm at least though
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> I think there are thunderstorms approaching
[18:44] <fsphil> sweet
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> did we ever do HAB into a thunderstorm?
[18:45] <jonsowman> 10.42kWh from the solar panels today
[18:46] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:46] <jonsowman> hi james
[18:46] <jcoxon> hey jonsowman
[18:46] <jonsowman> how're things?
[18:46] <jcoxon> good thanks
[18:46] <jonsowman> good stuff
[18:46] <jonsowman> launching saturday?
[18:46] <fsphil> don't think my panels generate much more than a kw
[18:46] <fsphil> h
[18:47] <jcoxon> jonsowman, sat or sun
[18:47] <jonsowman> jcoxon: cool. latex yes?
[18:47] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:47] <jcoxon> aim for 30km float
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[18:48] <jonsowman> jcoxon: any ballast or anythign?
[18:49] <jcoxon> not this time
[18:49] <jonsowman> :)
[18:49] <jonsowman> cool, good chance to test this sdr
[18:49] <jcoxon> yes
[18:49] <jcoxon> its going to be slow
[18:49] <jcoxon> also if (and a big if) we get out to sea we can test long range 100mW radio
[18:50] <jcoxon> jonsowman, you in Cam?
[18:50] <jonsowman> is this an rfm then?
[18:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:50] <jonsowman> i am indeed
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: http://www.stockwell.com/pages/materials_foam.php
[18:50] <jonsowman> jcoxon: why do you ask?
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, when will you fly?
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> you would probably be excited by that
[18:50] <jcoxon> i was wondering if we could make this funner
[18:50] <jcoxon> with a mission control idea
[18:50] <jonsowman> trackotron?
[18:51] <jcoxon> sort of a houston vs cape canavaral setup
[18:52] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... My solar panels have managed 12.7kWh today so far, but it was cloudy in the morning, so they didn't get a good start.
[18:52] <Upu> begsie wear the white waist coat and star sternly at a camera advising "we're not about to loose this one"
[18:52] <jcoxon> even via GB3EA
[18:52] <jonsowman> jcoxon: :D
[18:52] <jonsowman> LazyLeopard: what's their peak output power?
[18:53] <Upu> GB3EA local repeater ? Oh yes pls the local HAMs will love it
[18:53] <LazyLeopard> 2.75 theoretically. Today nearer 1.8
[18:53] <jcoxon> LazyLeopard, http://www.ukrepeater.net/repeaters/gb3ea.htm
[18:53] <jonsowman> ah cool
[18:53] <jonsowman> jcoxon: what radios are on this flight then?
[18:54] <jcoxon> currently for this launch its just a rfm22
[18:54] <jcoxon> but if people have any ideas i can implement something asap
[18:55] <Matt_soton> im guessing a very little range increase is expected?
[18:55] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, indeed
[18:55] <Matt_soton> how about 100mW on HF?
[18:56] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, truthfully that has never been that successful either
[18:56] <jcoxon> often its just ended up being LOS
[18:56] <Matt_soton> has anyone tried decent power on HF?
[18:56] <jcoxon> (at least the few flights i've seen)
[18:56] <jcoxon> the wb8elk flights had amps on them
[18:56] <jcoxon> so were more like 1W
[18:56] <jcoxon> and they got interesting skip
[18:57] <Matt_soton> so it can be done
[18:57] <Matt_soton> just have to fly out to sea to test
[18:58] <jcoxon> using a non-UK licence
[18:58] <jcoxon> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgbgjelYIULpdHNxcThYWE9lazF0UGpUV2ZMSF9nRHc#gid=0
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, cool, what do you want to do?
[18:59] <jcoxon> we are doing some east-west flights
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> awesome
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[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> like you discussed recently with the winds aloft maps?
[18:59] <jcoxon> exactly
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:59] <Matt_soton> oh so even on a uk liscence you cant tx at altitude over EU?
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> and you want to switch to a different xmitter when leaving UK airspace?
[19:00] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, well you could use your licence in their country
[19:00] <jcoxon> with the right adjustment
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[19:00] <jcoxon> out to sea you'd use your licence iguess
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:01] <jcoxon> and the uk licence doesn't allow airborne use
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> true
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> can you switch to HX1 over the atlantic?
[19:01] <Matt_soton> ok
[19:01] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, but some have US licences as well...
[19:02] <Matt_soton> despite my 10mW HF modules, its something that im not gonna bother with
[19:02] <Matt_soton> 500mW on 868 however...
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[21:24] <smrtz> Hey, I'm following this guide, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2, well, atleast the programming portion, untill my NTX2 gets here, but the mode is USB, and I need to use FM for testing, can someone help me figure out how to change it?
[21:25] nick_ (~nick_@client-80-5-31-180.cht-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:25] <nick_> Does anyone have a running raspberry pi?
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Mine is sort of sitting on the desk.
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> nick_: I can answer any questions about the appearance of the underside.
[21:27] <MrScienceMan> how does it taste like?
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:27] <nick_> I just failed to boot mine up.
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> MrScienceMan: flux.
[21:28] <MrScienceMan> would you say it better than licking a battery?
[21:31] <nick_> I failed to boot mine up :(
[21:31] <nick_> Trying to work out wh
[21:31] <nick_> why
[21:31] <smrtz> can anyone help me use the guides on ukhas to get my ntx2 running over FM instead of USB?
[21:31] <nigelvh> Did you pay your patent licensing fees? :P
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> for you all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgLw5lTkuT8
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> and hi nigelvh
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> smrtz, I think that would be difficult to do but I am not an expert
[21:33] <smrtz> oh, can you point me in the right direction?
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry, I am still like more a beginner
[21:34] <MrScienceMan> smrtz: you need the USB mode on the radio reciever
[21:35] <smrtz> MrScienceMan: yeah, but I don't have one, so I'm trying to use FM, I've been told it's possible, but have no idea how
[21:35] <nigelvh> Lunar, what was the deal with that video? A random guy decides to be an idiot and climbs halfway up a power transmission line tower?
[21:36] <nick_> SpeedEvil: can you power up your raspberry pi without an sd card in?
[21:37] <nick_> Do you get a boot loader screen?
[21:37] <nick_> Basically when I power on my projector doesn't see a signal and I don't know why.
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> nick_: No.
[21:38] <nigelvh> Do you have another viewing option? I've found projectors to be rather fiddly in the best of times.
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> AIUI
[21:38] <nick_> ?
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> nick_: you need a SD card to get anything at all.
[21:39] <nick_> I tried with a crappy old TV too
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> See #raspberry-pi
[21:39] <Matt_soton> smrtz: there are ways to transmit data with the ntx2 and be able to recieve on fm, but those arnt standards which are used normally
[21:39] <nick_> I'm trying to work out whether it might be an sd card issue
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, yes, and at 1:05 there is a really strange sound from the guy who is filming
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> and later the guy on the tower shouts "I'M SCARED, I'M SCARED"
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:40] <smrtz> SpeedEvil: We already bought an NTX2, so we can't go with AIUI, and Matt_soton yeah, I've heard about interference problems, were aware of the reduced range, but I'ts for a school project, so our budget is low.
[21:40] <nick_> Or it could be a cable problem
[21:40] <nick_> Or...
[21:40] <nick_> I don't know.
[21:41] <nick_> SpeedEvil: when you boot up do you get any sound?
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> smrtz: As I understand it
[21:41] <nick_> A beep would be a nice confirmation that something is happening at least.
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> nick_: It does nothing without the SD
[21:41] <nick_> With an SD I mean
[21:41] <nick_> Ah
[21:41] <Matt_soton> smrtz: you can get a rtlsdr dongle for £15 or so for testing
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> It's picky about SDs - some won't work - try another
[21:42] <Matt_soton> its not as good, but people here will listen to the balloon too
[21:42] <nick_> Could I also get you to do a test on your SD card?
[21:42] <smrtz> I'm actually in the United States, so you guys won't be able to help much... Thanks though!
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> nick_: I don't currently have it used.
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> nick_: - a SD card in
[21:43] <Matt_soton> well smrtz you might as well use whatever you want then, whatever you can receive
[21:44] <Matt_soton> but doing AFSK is a bit more effort
[21:44] <smrtz> Matt_soton: yeah, our teacher has an ICOM IC-2200H, so were stuck with what it provides... AFSK? let me google that
[21:44] <Matt_soton> simple way is to use a 555 timer
[21:44] <Matt_soton> also you might as well get a higher powered transmitter
[21:45] <Matt_soton> in AFSK you use the ntx2 as a fm transmitter and the fm receiver, so what you put in to the ntx2 comes out the radio exactly the same
[21:45] <Matt_soton> you then use one tone for 0 and one for 1
[21:45] <Matt_soton> so you have to produce two differnet tones
[21:45] <smrtz> we've already bought the NTX2, didn't do enough research...
[21:46] <Matt_soton> (rather then voltage levels for the ssb method)
[21:46] <r2x0t> you can do AFSK with NTX2
[21:46] <smrtz> oh, so a 555 timer IC just before pin 4 and 5?
[21:46] <nick_> Ah
[21:46] <Matt_soton> itll work but you could make use of extra power bearing in mind you will be the only ones tracking
[21:46] <nick_> I may have found the problem
[21:46] <r2x0t> why not use PWM output?
[21:46] <Matt_soton> or that
[21:46] <nick_> I think I wrote the image to sdb1 when I should have used sdb
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> may I interject a question?
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> what is AFSK?
[21:47] <smrtz> post width modulation right? that seems promising...
[21:47] <r2x0t> audio frequency FSK
[21:47] <Matt_soton> Lunar_Lander: i explained it &
[21:47] <Matt_soton> ^
[21:47] <r2x0t> ie. FSK in FM modulation
[21:47] <Matt_soton> i suppose every micro has pwm you dont need a 555
[21:47] <Matt_soton> but maybe quicker to get working
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> oh sorry Matt_soton
[21:48] <smrtz> I don't know as much as I should about FM vs SSB but I'
[21:48] <Matt_soton> its what aprs uses
[21:48] <r2x0t> PWM is not hard to use, for FSK, you only need to change register between two values to do 1/0 tones
[21:48] <smrtz> m following this pretty well, I think.
[21:49] <r2x0t> another way is using manchester coded data into NTX, that creates direct-FSK signal with no DC component
[21:49] <r2x0t> so it can be demodulated with simple FM radio
[21:49] <r2x0t> as AFSK
[21:49] <Matt_soton> issue is then receivers for the manchester coded data
[21:49] <smrtz> r2x0t: would that be less range, as there's less power?
[21:49] <r2x0t> no, you decode it as FSK
[21:50] <r2x0t> manchester -> FSK modulator -> air -> FM radio -> audio -> FSK demod in software
[21:50] <r2x0t> but yes, it reduces SNR
[21:50] <smrtz> ...SNR?
[21:50] <r2x0t> same way as using AFSK in general
[21:50] <r2x0t> Signal to noise ratio
[21:50] <Matt_soton> would you have to de-manchester in a fldigi like program?
[21:50] <nick_> Success!
[21:50] <r2x0t> no
[21:50] <nick_> It's booted
[21:50] <smrtz> ohh, cool. so does manchestering require any more hardware?
[21:51] <r2x0t> de-manchester is doing FSK demod
[21:51] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[21:51] <nick_> Now if only I had a keyboard...
[21:51] <r2x0t> no, it's just precoding of data on tx side, in pic
[21:51] <smrtz> nice nick_
[21:51] <r2x0t> or atmel
[21:51] <r2x0t> when you want to tx 0, you send 01, when you want to send 1, you send 10
[21:51] <r2x0t> it also doubles tx speed
[21:52] <smrtz> good, were using an arduino pro mini, so I guess I would need to remap the pins. Do you happen to have some example code I could look at?
[21:52] <nigelvh> smrtz are you planning using something like RTTY?
[21:52] <nick_> smrtz: does the debian release run sshd by default?
[21:53] <smrtz> yeah, RTTY to digifly
[21:53] <Matt_soton> first thing to do would be to use pwm, are they called analogOut pins?
[21:53] <nigelvh> How fast?
[21:53] <smrtz> nick_: idk, never messed with pure debian, I but I think Ubuntu (debian based) doesn't
[21:53] <nigelvh> I have some arduino code to do afsk on a digital pin from an arduino.
[21:53] <Matt_soton> i would say 50 baud if we're taking a hit with having to use afsk
[21:54] <smrtz> baud? same as BPS?
[21:54] <nigelvh> I've had mine work up to 200 baud, but it wasn't really reliable above 100.
[21:54] <nigelvh> smrtz yes,
[21:54] <Matt_soton> smrtz: you should just have to modify the sample code for rtty, but replace the high/low commands with pwm(a) and pwm(b)
[21:54] <r2x0t> let me test something for you with generator, will be back with results in 10 mins or so
[21:54] <smrtz> would you mind posting it nigelvh
[21:55] <smrtz> Matt_soton: really? wow, can it be so simple? and 10 for a, and 01 for b?
[21:55] <smrtz> great, thanks r2x0t
[21:55] <nigelvh> Yes, I can post the code. PWM in this instance would be preferable as it happens in the background, but for someone without much experience, messing with the pwm registers isn't going to be fun. The code I used was blocking and just did delays for the right amount of time.
[21:56] <Matt_soton> well if you start with afsk, which isnt manchester, a high is setpwmfreq(2500) and low setpwmfreq(2000)
[21:56] <Matt_soton> where 2500/2000 are the frequencies
[21:56] <nigelvh> Yes, if you could set the pwm frequencies with the arduino environment
[21:56] <Matt_soton> im assumeing the ardiuno is really simple to use pwm
[21:57] <nigelvh> Arduino has hardcoded pwm frequencies and you can adjust the duty cycle
[21:57] <Matt_soton> yea the frequency is defined by the 'TOP' value of the timer
[21:57] <Matt_soton> really, the hardware can manage different frequencies
[21:57] <smrtz> ohh, thanks guys, but, how would I set them, without the default environment, nigelvh?
[21:57] <nigelvh> Matt_soton, yes, the hardware can, but the environment doesn't support that, you have to edit the registers yourself to do so.
[21:58] <smrtz> so I set it to "TOP" and "BOTTOM]"
[21:58] <Matt_soton> im suprsed arduino wont let you
[21:58] <smrtz> I guess I should look into arduino PWM.
[21:58] <nigelvh> smrtz if you're new to arduino this is NOT the route I'd recommend.
[21:58] <smrtz> I am...
[21:58] <nigelvh> Matt_soton and I are talking more nitty gritty.
[21:58] <Matt_soton> if you cant, you have to manually edit the registers, looking at the atmel datasheet
[21:59] <smrtz> just turned it on for the first time today...
[21:59] <Matt_soton> or just use a 555 timer to start with
[21:59] <nigelvh> smrtz, my code is a good bit simpler. Let me find it for you.
[21:59] <Matt_soton> no code modification needed
[21:59] <smrtz> thanks nigelvh
[21:59] <nigelvh> Or a 555 like matt says
[21:59] <Matt_soton> there is an arduino command 'setPwmFrequency'
[21:59] <smrtz> Matt_soton: any idea where I could find the schematic for this?
[21:59] <nigelvh> There hadn't been in the past, it must be new.
[22:00] <Matt_soton> for the 555 timer?
[22:00] <smrtz> Matt_soton: well, not the timer itself, but how to add it to the example circuit in the ukhas wiki
[22:00] <nigelvh> Matt_soton, I don't see that in the reference.
[22:01] <Matt_soton> well make a 555 timer with centre frequency of say 2kHz, then connect one of the outputs from the ardino (either of the two) with a high value (220k or so) to pin 5 of the 555
[22:01] <Matt_soton> nigelvh: http://arduino.cc/playground/Code/PwmFrequency
[22:01] <Matt_soton> seems like it messes up other stuff though
[22:02] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's a separate chunk of code. It's not part of the main distribution.
[22:02] <nigelvh> If you adjust the pwm frequency of the pins that are associated with timer0 then your time keeping functions like delay(), millis(), etc. will all be off.
[22:02] <smrtz> wouldn't you just buy a 555 timer?
[22:03] <Matt_soton> i would program a raw avr and just set the registers
[22:03] <Matt_soton> but if you have a 555 lying around you might as well use that first
[22:03] <nigelvh> Matt meant that you'd use a 555 and set up the external components to set the frequencies right.
[22:03] <smrtz> their pretty cheap, even at a radio shack...
[22:04] <nigelvh> smrtz, in reality, if you can, the 555 will be the simplest.
[22:04] <r2x0t> ok, so:
[22:04] <r2x0t> if you use bit output from uC at 2000 bits/sec
[22:04] <r2x0t> and output 1010101010101010101010101010101010101010 for single bit 1 from telemetry
[22:04] <r2x0t> and 1100110011001100110011001100110011001100 for 0 bit
[22:04] <r2x0t> you get this:
[22:04] <r2x0t> http://www.r00t.cz//fsk-afsk.wav
[22:05] <r2x0t> 50Bd AFSK
[22:05] <smrtz> cool, this is high school physics, so I'm not trying to home brew anything... nigelvh
[22:05] <r2x0t> with tones at 1500Hz and 1000Hz
[22:05] <r2x0t> 1500Hz tone is also mirrored to 500Hz, but that doesn't matter
[22:05] <nigelvh> smrtz, yeah, I've got code that would work, and there are fancier ways to do it than my code, but a 555 would be dead simple.
[22:06] <smrtz> cool, thanks nigelvh
[22:06] <Matt_soton> once the 555 is working you could always use pwm on the micro, but ask someone who knows which timers are safe to fiddle with
[22:06] <smrtz> r2x0t: so that's coming from your telemetry data, or just a random sequence?
[22:07] <Matt_soton> bbiab
[22:07] <r2x0t> that's pseudo random seq, encoded in way I wrote above
[22:07] <r2x0t> from generator, received as FM
[22:07] <smrtz> ok fool
[22:07] <smrtz> cool* sorry.
[22:07] <r2x0t> ...
[22:07] <smrtz> lol
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
[22:08] <nigelvh> That is a rather unfortunate typo.
[22:08] <smrtz> yeah, my bad
[22:08] <r2x0t> it creates a lot of harmonics, but they doesn't matter with FM
[22:09] <smrtz> but what did you mean by uC?
[22:09] <nigelvh> microcontroller
[22:09] <nigelvh> ie the arduino.
[22:09] <r2x0t> yes
[22:09] <smrtz> ohh ok, or the U-Blocks GPS that we got.
[22:09] <nigelvh> yes, it's meant in the same way that you'd have micro-farad capacitors marked uF
[22:10] <r2x0t> you can probably even do AFSK for APRS this way
[22:10] <smrtz> ahh, nigelvh
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> like the symbol: µ
[22:10] <nigelvh> Exactly. But most of us are too lazy and just use the letter 'u'
[22:11] <smrtz> r2x0t: I'm not sure the benefits of that, and the less SNR is a really cool feature of AFSK, so I think I'll go with that.
[22:11] <r2x0t> lol
[22:11] <r2x0t> less SNR = worse
[22:11] <nigelvh> less SNR is bad
[22:11] <r2x0t> it's not cool at all
[22:11] <MrScienceMan> you need high SNR
[22:11] <nigelvh> high SNR is good.
[22:11] <r2x0t> but my method doesn't make it any worse from normal AFSK
[22:11] <smrtz> wait, more. sorry. I'm tired.
[22:12] <r2x0t> once you modulate signal using FM and use FM radio to demod, it sucks :)
[22:12] <nigelvh> FM has a lower SNR smrtz
[22:12] <r2x0t> because you are letting all the noise around signal in, most filters are 15KHz wide or so
[22:13] <r2x0t> compare that to SSB receiver with 2x50Hz filters for FSK... that A LOT less noise
[22:13] <smrtz> oh, well, then what would you recomend, also, I just noticed your post about the manchester to to the FKS modulater... the arduino is going to be on the balloon, but there you say it's after the radio, that's going to change things isn't it.
[22:13] <nigelvh> Don't worry about the manchester
[22:13] <nigelvh> That's getting fancy
[22:14] <r2x0t> just try what I proposed above
[22:14] <smrtz> oh, cool, thanks a ton.
[22:14] <r2x0t> output to modulator at 2000bits/sec
[22:14] <nigelvh> Just use a 555 into the radio
[22:14] <r2x0t> and 1010101010101010101010101010101010101010 for bit "!"
[22:14] <r2x0t> "1"
[22:14] <nigelvh> r2x0t he's got no experience with a micro
[22:14] <r2x0t> 1100110011001100110011001100110011001100 for 0
[22:14] <nigelvh> simple is better.
[22:14] <smrtz> the modulator is an arduino.
[22:14] <r2x0t> this is very simple to do in sw, few lines of code
[22:15] <nigelvh> for you
[22:15] <smrtz> it goes U-BLOCKS, arduino, NTX2, air, radio, laptop
[22:15] <nigelvh> a 555 will work fine for tone generation and be a lot simpler for a bunch of high school students.
[22:15] <smrtz> well, two, two high school students.
[22:16] <nigelvh> In any case, you're new to microcontrollers, new to radio, and simpler is better.
[22:16] <r2x0t> ok, I can write function for you
[22:16] <smrtz> yeah, that's what I was thinking, but his way sounds so much more reliable.
[22:17] <smrtz> oh, uhh, thanks r2x0t, I can just use google to figure out how you did it from there.
[22:17] <nigelvh> Any way you do it is fine, I'm just trying to make sure it's something you can understand and learn from.
[22:17] <smrtz> thanks nigelvh
[22:17] <nigelvh> If we just hand you something that uses all sorts of timers and whatnot, it's going to be more difficult to learn from.
[22:18] <smrtz> yeah, this is my first real electronics project aswell...
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[22:18] <nigelvh> r2x0t knows what he's talking about, and can put together some good stuff, but nobody said it was easy to grasp at first.
[22:19] <smrtz> I noticed that
[22:19] <r2x0t> http://www.r00t.cz//afskntx.txt
[22:19] <nigelvh> Also, smrtz, you said you were in the states. Where you at?
[22:19] <smrtz> I've never even heard of an FM generator before, is it just like a random single generator?
[22:19] <smrtz> VA, nigelvh
[22:20] <smrtz> thanks r2x0t
[22:20] <nigelvh> Ah, if only that VA was a WA then I could be of more help to you.
[22:20] <r2x0t> ie. get_telemetry_bit returns data as you would normally send to FSK modulator (8N1 framed)
[22:20] <r2x0t> result from get_ntx_bit() should be sent to NTX
[22:20] <smrtz> haha, if only...
[22:20] <r2x0t> at 2000Hz rate
[22:20] <r2x0t> magic constant is here: if (cnt==40) cnt=0;
[22:20] <smrtz> r2x0t: and I can get that much from the ukhas wiki?
[22:21] <r2x0t> 40 = 2000/40 = 50Bd
[22:21] <nigelvh> smrtz, for r2x0t's function, you'll need to keep sending data to that function in a timely manner.
[22:21] <r2x0t> yes, you can pretty much reuse all code
[22:21] <r2x0t> from ukhas
[22:21] <smrtz> ok cool thanks
[22:21] <r2x0t> just put this function before writing data to NTX
[22:22] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:22] <Matt_soton> r2x0t: if your modulation scheme has an extra tone surely thats reducing the snr a bit?
[22:22] <r2x0t> it have harmonics
[22:22] <r2x0t> but that doesn't matter with FM
[22:22] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - PICO Launch ~1200GMT 26/05/12 from Suffolk, UK
[22:22] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:22] <smrtz> how exactly does this change it to FM?
[22:23] <Matt_soton> oh its just harmonics as with anything else, fair enough
[22:23] <r2x0t> with FM modulation, amplitude of signal converts to frequency
[22:23] <smrtz> as in, if I were to throw the output into a osiliscope, how would they differ?
[22:23] <r2x0t> higher harmonics make it look more square-wave
[22:23] <jcoxon> jonsowman, not a pico launch
[22:23] <r2x0t> you can easily fix that by adding small lowpass filter
[22:23] <r2x0t> before ntx
[22:23] <jcoxon> just about to email you
[22:24] <smrtz> so, louder = different tone?
[22:24] <nigelvh> The oscilloscope would show just voltages changing for the SSB modulation. For FM you're generating a tone, and the tones change
[22:24] <jonsowman> jcoxon: i thought the callsign was PICO jcoxon
[22:24] <jcoxon> nah for this it'll be EURUS
[22:24] <jonsowman> ah ok
[22:24] <jonsowman> flight doc needs updating then :)
[22:24] <jcoxon> nope
[22:24] <jcoxon> new flight doc in place
[22:24] <jonsowman> :)
[22:24] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:24] <jcoxon> the pico launch will be later in the week probably
[22:25] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - EURUS Launch 26/05/12 from Suffolk, UK
[22:25] <smrtz> well, I have to go to dinner, but thanks a ton guys, you've helped alot
[22:25] <jonsowman> okay jcoxon, sorry got confused :)
[22:25] <nigelvh> smrtz what you'll be doing is wiggling a pin up and down 1000 times a second
[22:25] <jcoxon> its okay
[22:25] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:25] <nigelvh> then you'll change that speed to 1500 times a second
[22:25] <smrtz> hahah, while hanging from the balloon..
[22:25] <nigelvh> yes
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> oh hi jonsowman and the doctor
[22:25] <nigelvh> Those tones are transmitted by the radio to be heard by the reciever.
[22:26] <nigelvh> Just like audio pressure waves
[22:26] <nigelvh> just with electricity and electromagnetic waves.
[22:27] <nigelvh> The faster the oscillations happen, the higher the pitch.
[22:27] <nigelvh> ie the "frequency"
[22:28] <r2x0t> on scope: http://www.r00t.cz//fsk-afsk.png
[22:28] <r2x0t> this is input to NTX
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[22:30] <r2x0t> and output from NTX, FM modulated signal: http://www.r00t.cz//fsk-afsk2.png
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[22:57] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] Possible launches19th or 20th May - XABEN-25"
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[23:03] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Possible launches19th or 20th May - XABEN-25"
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[23:18] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference 2012"
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[00:00] --- Thu May 24 2012