highaltitude.log.20120518

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[00:01] <griffonbot> Received email: PJ Hunt "Re: [UKHAS] Couple of questions, if I may."
[00:01] <Darkside> r2x0t: i have code to read the eeprom
[00:02] <r2x0t> yes, I have seen your page and got your dumped EEPROM
[00:03] <Darkside> ah yeah i think we talked abotu this
[00:03] <r2x0t> also have one RS92-AGP sonde
[00:03] <r2x0t> would like to dump it and compare
[00:03] <r2x0t> then desolder the sensors and try to monitor signals from/to it
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander_> r2x0t, you got complete RS-92 sondes?
[00:07] <r2x0t> yes, found ~23 so far
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander_> ah you found them
[00:07] <r2x0t> yes... great fun :)
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander_> cause on ebay I only was able to buy a RS-80 or so
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
[00:07] <Darkside> :D
[00:07] <Darkside> r2x0t: where are you based?
[00:08] <r2x0t> Prague / Czech Republic
[00:08] <Darkside> aha
[00:08] <Darkside> so you use sondemonitor?
[00:08] <r2x0t> yes
[00:08] <Darkside> hehe
[00:08] <r2x0t> but hacked my SDR demodulator to it, because it sucked
[00:08] <Darkside> audio pipe?
[00:09] <r2x0t> yes, have program that does GMSK demodulation, then outputs perfect square wave to SM
[00:09] <Darkside> ooh cool
[00:12] <r2x0t> they are still launching RS92KL and SGP only for special measurements like OZONE or when KL doesn't work as it should
[00:12] <r2x0t> but Vaisala stopped production of KL sondes, so they have just few months of them left
[00:13] <Darkside> KL = analog, right?
[00:13] <r2x0t> yes, uses LORAN on 100KHz for navigation
[00:14] <Darkside> uh
[00:14] <Darkside> ok thats not what we use here
[00:14] <r2x0t> problem is USA chain was discontinued
[00:14] <r2x0t> so there is no signal there
[00:14] <Darkside> we have analog sondes here which don't broadcast any digital signals at all
[00:14] <r2x0t> sonde uses WFM modulation, ~500KHz
[00:14] <Darkside> yeah, its a sequence of tones
[00:14] <r2x0t> with analogue tones @ 10KHz
[00:14] <Darkside> yep
[00:14] <r2x0t> and rest of LF mixed on it
[00:14] <Darkside> no kind of positioning on it
[00:15] <r2x0t> I can hear longware radio on it
[00:15] <Darkside> anyway, ours don' thave positioning
[00:15] <Darkside> they use radar tracking here
[00:15] <r2x0t> it's crazy transponder... 100KHz to 403MHz :)
[00:15] <Darkside> wait
[00:15] <Darkside> they have a transponder in them?
[00:16] <Darkside> i'm 100% sure the ones we have don't
[00:17] <r2x0t> sorry, meant just bent-pipe transponder, not like ADS-B one or anything that listens on 403
[00:17] <Darkside> yeahi know what you meant
[00:17] <r2x0t> sonde just modulates all it hears on 100KHz to WFM signal
[00:17] <Darkside> yeah, i'm pretty sure ours don't have that
[00:17] <Darkside> theres a pic of our analog sonde on my blog somewhere
[00:18] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/analog_sonde.jpg
[00:18] <r2x0t> that looks like it
[00:19] <r2x0t> LORAN antenna is long wire
[00:19] <r2x0t> like 10m long
[00:19] <Darkside> ok ours never fly with that
[00:19] <r2x0t> signal looks like this: http://www.r00t.cz//rs92kl.PNG
[00:20] <Darkside> yeah, same here
[00:20] <Darkside> but we don't get LW modulated in on it
[00:20] <r2x0t> this is it after FM demodulation: http://www.r00t.cz//rs92kl-tpx.PNG
[00:21] <r2x0t> you can see some FSK DCF signals around 130KHz
[00:21] <Darkside> you know, i'm going to have to check ours again
[00:21] <Darkside> HEY
[00:21] <Darkside> there should be one up here RIGHT NOW.
[00:21] <Darkside> hold.
[00:21] <r2x0t> same here
[00:22] <Darkside> how are you doing the sideband FM demod?
[00:22] <Darkside> wideband
[00:23] <r2x0t> my SDR can do it in HW
[00:23] <r2x0t> see 7 SGP sondes in air
[00:23] <r2x0t> and 2 KL
[00:25] <Darkside> lol
[00:25] <Darkside> i see one..
[00:25] <Darkside> australia mate
[00:26] <Darkside> hmm
[00:27] <Darkside> ok i can't do that wideband demod
[00:27] <Darkside> not without getting this running with gnuradio
[00:27] <Darkside> but our sondes aren't as wide as yours i'm pretty sure
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[00:27] <r2x0t> you can try AM demod
[00:27] <r2x0t> near adge of signal
[00:28] <r2x0t> edge
[00:28] <Darkside> pretty sure theres nothing there
[00:28] <Darkside> ill screenshot the waterfall
[00:28] <r2x0t> I can make recording of LORAN so you know what to look for
[00:30] <Darkside> we don' thave LORAN around here
[00:31] <r2x0t> the sondes may be same
[00:31] <r2x0t> but without LW antenna
[00:31] <r2x0t> so it will still not TX anything in wide FM
[00:31] <Darkside> we have some sontes we could test with
[00:32] <Darkside> if you could get ap ic of where teh LW antenna connects i can try soldering one on
[00:32] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/fA6e1.jpg
[00:32] <r2x0t> hmm, I only have RS80 sonde
[00:33] <Darkside> you can see in that pic, our sondes aren't as wide as yours
[00:33] <Darkside> thats using a RTL dongle as a RX btw, so theres spurs all over the place
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[00:36] <r2x0t> the sidebands you see on my screenshot are only visible with signal is very strong
[00:36] <r2x0t> most just after launch or near landing nearby
[00:36] <Darkside> i think i have some analog sondes around somewhere
[00:36] <Darkside> but i can't check it right now
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[00:37] <Lunar_Lander_> oh no RTL!
[00:37] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[00:38] <r2x0t> hehe... it's poor, but cheap
[00:38] <Darkside> yeah not the best receiver
[00:38] <Darkside> its the only thing i have that will show me more than 96KHZ bandwidth though
[00:39] <Darkside> ok bbl
[00:40] <Lunar_Lander_> no, I actually mean the low quality German TV station of the same name
[00:40] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[00:42] <r2x0t> http://www.r00t.cz//sonde_band.png
[00:42] <r2x0t> few sondes, then some local transmitters and interference
[00:42] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[00:42] <Lunar_Lander_> the 2 am launch?
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander_> if there is one
[00:43] <r2x0t> it's 00Z
[00:43] <r2x0t> usually launch 1 hour before that
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander_> ah, right sorry
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander_> so that the sondes reach the high altitudes at the set time?
[00:43] <r2x0t> 2315Z for prague, 2300Z for most German sondes
[00:43] <r2x0t> probably
[00:44] <r2x0t> so it's 00Z at some altitude, not ground
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[00:48] <r2x0t> there's webcam on Prague wx station where they launch sondes, too bad it updates only in 5minute intervals... 12Z launch today(yesterday): http://www.chmi.cz/files/portal/docs/meteo/kam/data_praha_libus/20120517.1315.jpg
[00:49] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
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[03:00] <smrtz> the NTX2 is capable of transmitting over FM, right? I'll be using SSB for the actual launch, but it would be cool to mess with FM in the lab.
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[06:27] <jcoxon> morning
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[06:38] <jcoxon> morning all
[06:42] <SamSilver> jcoxon: what about frozen car anti-freeze used as ballast, when it desends into warmer air it melts
[06:43] <SamSilver> or the ocean dipping ballast of sugar cubes
[06:44] <jcoxon> SamSilver, wouldn't want it to get that low
[06:44] <jcoxon> as in need to keep it above 20km
[06:46] <SamSilver> I had thoughts of using sheets of polystyrene as balast
[06:46] <SamSilver> right safety above 20km
[06:46] <SamSilver> with a screw to dump the sheets ... late night dreaming in bed
[06:46] <x-f> not so friendly to the environment
[06:47] <jcoxon> yeah the polystyrene idea is interesting, or hot wire to melt them
[06:47] <jcoxon> but that wouldn't sit well with me regarding pollution
[06:47] <SamSilver> that was the other option thay would act like a wind brake on accent
[06:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Possible launches19th or 20th May"
[06:48] <eroomde> hay
[06:48] <eroomde> drop wee bales of hay
[06:51] <jcoxon> thanks ed
[06:51] <jcoxon> :-p
[06:51] <SamSilver> eroomde: that would be cool over Wales
[06:53] <jcoxon> SamSilver, i spent so long working on ballast systems before that i rather dislike them
[06:53] <jcoxon> not going to volunteer for that job ;-)
[06:54] <SamSilver> i ponder over that the most
[06:56] <SamSilver> i noted that white star droped at the rate of 1 g per + - 3 seconds
[06:56] <SamSilver> and it was not adjustable
[06:57] <jcoxon> ZP would have different dynamics really
[06:57] <jcoxon> in this case if we went down the simple valve we would have a degree of control
[06:58] <SamSilver> 4500g with a "net" over it is another idea I have had a super pres.
[06:58] <SamSilver> 0r a 3000g depending on payload
[07:00] <eroomde> i like sugar
[07:00] <eroomde> as a ballast idea
[07:00] <eroomde> usefully dense, biodegradeable
[07:00] <eroomde> dissolves if you ditch into the sea so you go back up again
[07:01] <jcoxon> any moisture in the system and it gets a bit sticky
[07:02] <eroomde> salt and sugar mix then
[07:03] <jcoxon> would you have it in a granualar form? or cubed?
[07:06] <eroomde> granular
[07:06] <eroomde> treated with that salt treatment that makes it flow easily snd dryly
[07:07] <jcoxon> i guess it would be protected from outside moisture
[07:07] <jcoxon> as when you get it to altitude everythng would be a bit chilly
[07:08] <SamSilver> vending machines have a screw method for chips and chockies that I like
[07:08] <SamSilver> I mean I like the method of dispensing
[07:08] <jcoxon> yeah so turn a coiled wire/screw 1 turn and drop off an object
[07:08] <SamSilver> lol not that i don't like the chips and chockies
[07:09] <SamSilver> jcoxon: yip
[07:10] <SamSilver> my mad cap idea was to use ping pong balls as the balast with the screw system
[07:10] <SamSilver> a bag of balls with a lotto type setup and a screw at the bottom
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[07:11] <SamSilver> balls could be printed with name - email -cell number and then we could hopefully get some info back on it's track 2nd hand
[07:13] <jcoxon> :-)
[07:13] <jcoxon> thats a nice idea
[07:14] <SamSilver> in hotair ballooning we use 80g sand bags with a 1.2m streamer attached as markers
[07:14] <jcoxon> eroomde, you could use this to control you sugar http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8782
[07:15] <jcoxon> work very well even at low temps
[07:18] <SamSilver> afk
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[08:21] <fsphil> interesting talk on the sondes last night. they don't seem to launch analogue ones here which is a shame
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[08:32] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Possible launches19th or 20th May"
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[08:55] <daveake> Just noticed that CNSP-16 got #2 altitude record last weekend
[08:59] <daveake> 2 weekends ago. can't add up this early in the morning
[09:00] <LazyLeopard> ;)
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[09:06] <fsphil> they're catching
[09:07] <eroomde> Porridge.
[09:17] <daveake> I've sent in the Buzz5 flight to add to the arhab table
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[09:17] <daveake> At one position lower than I thought it would be :(
[09:18] <daveake> But we'll see what happens on Sunday :)
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[09:24] <M0JCU> Is there anyone around who can sort out payload docs?
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[09:25] <M0JCU> ping Randomskk
[09:26] <M0JCU> exams :(
[09:31] <fsphil> my machine with my ssh key is switched off :/
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[10:25] <SolarNRG> When's the spacex launch?
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[10:27] <nosebleedkt_> well lol
[10:27] <MrScienceMan> SolarNRG: 19th ?
[10:27] <nosebleedkt_> they helium provider sent me fax with details of the helium quality
[10:27] <fsphil> they still have some then nosebleedkt_?
[10:27] <SamSilver> and?
[10:28] <SamSilver> what %
[10:29] <nosebleedkt_> http://imagebin.org/212833
[10:29] <nosebleedkt_> this is it
[10:29] <nosebleedkt_> the good helium is the 1st
[10:29] <nosebleedkt_> I need your expert answer
[10:29] <nosebleedkt_> !
[10:30] <nosebleedkt_> the helium 4.6 is the ballloon gas :)
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[10:31] <nosebleedkt_> SpeedEvil !
[10:32] <x-f> the balloon gas is good
[10:33] <nosebleedkt_> thats 17.5 euro/m^3
[10:33] <nosebleedkt_> the Helium 5 costs 24 euro / m^3
[10:33] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[10:33] <nosebleedkt_> that ,999 makes 6.5e difference
[10:34] <LazyLeopard> ...for .004 %
[10:35] <nosebleedkt_> yeah
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[10:37] <LazyLeopard> You're only going to notice that .004 % in your pocket.
[10:37] <nosebleedkt_> :P
[10:39] <gonzo_> possibly the higher purity is important for inductrial applications
[10:41] <LazyLeopard> ...but not for a balloon.
[10:41] <fsphil> yea no point paying for the pure helium. better going down the H2 route
[10:41] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> Lithium is cheaper per kilo, and is only one elemental number higher.
[10:51] <nosebleedkt_> SpeedEvil:
[10:51] <nosebleedkt_> did u see the image?
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> no
[10:51] <nosebleedkt_> is it clear that i should buy the cheap one ?
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:51] <nosebleedkt_> http://imagebin.org/212833
[10:51] <nosebleedkt_> .004 % difference
[10:51] <eroomde> get the cheaper one
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> Anywhere over 90% is just fine
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> You might notice 10%
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> If you did tests
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> with a few dozen identical balloons
[10:53] <fsphil> the variability in the balloon material will vastly outweight any differences in the helium purity
[10:53] <fsphil> for the burst altitude
[10:53] <nosebleedkt_> :P
[10:54] <fsphil> I almost sounded smart there ;)
[10:55] <nosebleedkt_> hahahahhaa
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[10:56] <nosebleedkt_> i almost undestood you
[10:56] <nosebleedkt_> :P
[10:56] <fsphil> lol
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[11:02] <daveake> nosebleedkt_: Sorry to be blunt, but we've had this conversation re Helium percentages before, and you had the answer you needed last time
[11:02] <nosebleedkt_> daveake: those 999 you were talking about ?
[11:03] <nosebleedkt_> man i need re-confirmation! its my international space program here :p
[11:03] <daveake> Yep. 99% is fine and someone even calculated you how fine it was. More 9's mean sqrt(naff-all)
[11:03] <fsphil> nearly
[11:04] <daveake> Balloons are hundreds of time more variable than the Helium
[11:06] <fsphil> that's a better way of putting it
[11:06] <daveake> :)
[11:08] <fsphil> so yea, a 1600g balloon could burst at 10km no matter how good the helium is
[11:09] <daveake> We've had them burst between 24 and 42 recently, both the same size balloon and with lightweight payloads
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[11:10] <fsphil> your next launch is going for altitude then daveake?
[11:10] <daveake> might be :p
[11:11] <fsphil> lol
[11:11] <fsphil> if it does, then it was. that kind of thing? :)
[11:11] <daveake> I tend to get altitude unintentionally
[11:11] <Darkside> i need to get rocketboy to sent me some of that batch of 1600g hwoyees
[11:11] <fsphil> my precious...er.. balloon is safely in storage
[11:11] <number10> cant have you getting anymore records Darkside ;)
[11:11] <daveake> Allegedly all the ones he's had over the last year-ish have been the same batch
[11:12] <daveake> So say hwoyee
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[11:21] <fsphil> re Upu
[11:22] <Darkside> r2x0t: gonzo_
[11:22] <Upu> afternoon
[11:22] <Darkside> hi upu
[11:22] <Upu> hola
[11:25] <number10> back from hols Upu ?
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[11:44] <daveake> http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/T/Y/4/time-travel-irrelevant-sign.jpg
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[11:51] <kokey> spacex launch tomorrow
[11:51] <eroomde> what time bst?
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:51] Action: SpeedEvil crosses fingers.
[11:51] <kokey> don't know, they say 'early hours' I guess they mean ET
[11:52] <russss> they have an instantaneous launch window
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> In some ways I'm awaiting the reusable rocket more.
[11:52] <russss> 04:55 EDT (08:55 GMT; 09:55 BST)
[11:52] <russss> launch window is 3 seconds I think
[11:52] <russss> so they can't do their trademark 1-hour recycle
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> But - 'only' dragon->ISS will be fun too.
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[11:53] <kokey> 4:55 EDT/8:55 UTC, with a backup date set for 22 May.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> Reusability has the possibility to get launch costs stupidly low.
[11:54] <eroomde> this fact is not lost on many people
[11:54] <kokey> hope it works out
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> I hope lots of peoples launches succeed.
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> Competition is good!
[11:55] <kokey> for sure
[11:55] <kokey> nice that it's not NASA's usual contractors
[11:56] <kokey> there are a bunch of people with lunar landers out there too
[11:57] <kokey> it will be nice if all those silicon valley IPO kids throw more money in this direction
[11:57] Action: SpeedEvil ponders...
[11:57] <eroomde> it still costs a lot to get your 100kg sat into orbit in a timeframe that's on your own terms
[11:57] <eroomde> there seems to be a bit of a gap there
[11:59] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if you take the first stage of a falcon heavy - delete the top stages but for a stub - if you can do the propellant crossfeed thing, and have a mostly-full middle rocket in orbit after stage-sep
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> Land the whole thing on the moon with the nifty landing gear.
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> naah
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> Oh well.
[12:00] <x-f> are you playing Kerbal Space Program?
[12:01] <SolarNRG> Do you think a massive stack of hundreds of stages of rockets like that would work in real life?
[12:02] <eroomde> 100s of stages firing in parallel?
[12:02] <SolarNRG> yeah
[12:02] <SolarNRG> no
[12:02] <SolarNRG> series
[12:02] <SolarNRG> 500 rockets for first stage
[12:02] <SolarNRG> 400 for 2nd
[12:02] <SolarNRG> 200 for 3rd
[12:02] <SolarNRG> 100 for 4t
[12:02] <eroomde> it's probably not very mass efficient
[12:02] <SolarNRG> h
[12:02] <SolarNRG> 50 for 6th
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> In parallel - with stage-sep - it's teh same as if you stack them on top
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> Apart from drag.
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[12:03] <SpeedEvil> Which is of course rather larger.
[12:03] <SolarNRG> I seen stupidly large rockets in KSP
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> Also - search for OTRAG
[12:04] <r2x0t> Russians tried using many rocket motors (like 30+) during cold war / moon race, but they have huge problems with misfires
[12:04] <r2x0t> in the end, they scrapped this idea completely
[12:04] <r2x0t> *had
[12:05] <eroomde> quite a few (maybe not 30) in parallel makes a lot of sense though
[12:07] <x-f> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_(rocket) - that's the Russian rocket
[12:08] <r2x0t> yes, that's it
[12:08] <r2x0t> 30 stage 1 engines
[12:09] <eroomde> what a beast
[12:12] <r2x0t> At liftoff a loose bolt was ingested into a fuel pump, which failed. After detecting the inoperative fuel pump,
[12:12] <r2x0t> the automatic engine control shut off 29 of 30 engines, which caused the rocket to stall. The rocket exploded
[12:12] <r2x0t> 23 seconds after shutting off the engines, destroying the rocket and launch tower in the biggest explosion in
[12:12] <r2x0t> the history of rocketry and also the largest manmade non-nuclear explosion ever (nearly 7 kilotons of TNT equivalent.)
[12:12] <staylo> incontinent ballistic missile
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> I don't think that's true
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> hmm - I thought that was larger
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Also - rockets don't really explode 'properly'
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> they deflagrate as the boiling fuel comes into contact
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Not an actual detonation.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> (liquid rockets)
[12:22] <eroomde> if the mixing is good enough they'll happily explode
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Sure
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> But it rarely is complete, or anything close, before ignition
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[12:42] <gonzo_> someone call?
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[12:49] <LazyLeopard> eroomde: :Happily explode"? Reminds me of "Dark Star", and of at least one other "happy bomb" SF(-ish) story...
[12:49] <WillDuckworth> these guys make me chuckle; http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/18/lohan_trigger/
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[13:30] <Randomskk> M0JCU: hi
[13:31] <M0JCU> Hi
[13:33] <M0JCU> Are you able to make a couple of changes to payload docs?
[13:35] <M0JCU> Randomskk, I need a duplicate of the VORTEX payload doc with 2 minor changes. Callsign "VORTEX2" and baud rate 200.
[13:35] <M0JCU> Also, I have changed HelioSS to be all uper-case (HELIOSS) including checksum. Hence it doesn't work with the old payload doc any more :)
[13:36] <M0JCU> s/uper/upper/
[13:47] <Randomskk> got it
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[13:47] <Randomskk> is HelioSS on a new flight?
[13:47] <Randomskk> and when's launch? I can make changes but it's much easier if you can wait until later this evening
[13:49] <M0JCU> HeloiSS flew last Friday. It won't be flying againt until next Friday
[13:50] <M0JCU> At the earliest
[13:50] <M0JCU> There should be no problems with making the changes this evening / over the weekend.
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[14:17] <Randomskk> great, okay, I'll do that
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[15:01] <SamSilver> bbl
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[15:19] <fsphil> the winds have changed. I hope nobody was making any rude faces. http://hourly.sanslogic.co.uk/
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[15:19] <eroomde> it has got very dark here this afternoon too
[15:19] <eroomde> having been quite bright at lunch
[15:19] <eroomde> yet no rain
[15:19] <eroomde> it just feels like it's about to rain
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[15:20] <fsphil> lazy clouds
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[15:25] <nigelvh> Morning all
[15:25] <fsphil> hrya mr.vh
[15:25] <nigelvh> Anyone on here know much about how the descent in the habhub predictor is calculated?
[15:26] <nigelvh> Also, morning fsphil
[15:27] <Upu> apparently the last person to go into that code nigelvh never came back
[15:27] <nigelvh> bum bum BUUUUUUMM!!
[15:28] <fsphil> I took a glance, still recovering
[15:28] <nigelvh> Really I'm just curious if when you say descent = x m/s does it assume x for the whole descent, or does it have some curve down to x at the bottom?
[15:28] <fsphil> curve
[15:28] <Upu> it curves
[15:28] <fsphil> I believe x is the landing speed
[15:28] <Upu> yep
[15:29] <nigelvh> Excellent
[15:29] <Upu> I don't know the maths (Steve Randal has a spread sheet somewhere)
[15:29] <Upu> but the landing speed is generally 1/2 the decent speed @ 10km
[15:29] <nigelvh> I have to say y'all have done a nice job with your various hab utilities
[15:29] <Upu> i.e if you're doing 10m/s @ 10km you're on target for a 5m/s landing
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[15:31] <nigelvh> Thanks for the info. Myself and my cohorts were looking at our predictions for tomorrow and were curious about the descent bits.
[15:33] <nigelvh> Also, it appears jcoxon isn't in here. Haven't seen much of him lately, and I've been told he's the one I should chat with about the aprs connector for spacenear.us
[15:33] <Upu> yeah he can do that
[15:33] <Upu> just fire a mail to the mailing list with the call sign on it
[15:33] <Upu> he works shifts
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[15:34] <eroomde> he's a Dr
[15:34] <Upu> yup afternoon Ed
[15:34] <eroomde> funny hours and funny rotations and busy patches and less busy patches
[15:34] <nigelvh> I'm not on the mailing list
[15:34] <eroomde> and gf-in-the-loop negative feedback on time spent on hab
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[15:35] <Upu> you best go sort it out then nigelvh :/
[15:35] <nigelvh> Suppose I should be.
[15:35] <Upu> I can approve you if you go register
[15:35] <nigelvh> Where?
[15:35] <Upu> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ukhas
[15:36] <nigelvh> joined.
[15:37] <Upu> ok go post
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[15:39] <nigelvh> So posted.
[15:40] <Upu> done
[15:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Nigel Vander Houwen "[UKHAS] WA, USA launch on May 19th"
[15:40] <nigelvh> Woo!
[15:41] <nigelvh> The bot knowzez me!
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[15:42] <nigelvh> Also, thanks for the help Upu
[15:42] <Upu> nps
[15:43] <nigelvh> Getting kinda nervous about may payload
[15:43] <nigelvh> my*
[15:43] <fsphil> I always get nervous before a launch
[15:44] <nigelvh> Been tested a lot, should be good, but still we're flying a whole new radio and protocol.
[15:44] <nigelvh> But, I figure it's the normal day before jitters.
[15:45] <eroomde> i was in a funny place before our rocket launch
[15:45] <eroomde> which was almost exactly 2 weeks ago
[15:45] <eroomde> v v nervous
[15:46] <eroomde> mainly for the lack of testing
[15:46] <nigelvh> "Now it's time to make some day before code changes!"
[15:46] <eroomde> erm, i actually started writing the code for the flight computers the day b4 launch
[15:46] <eroomde> and finished in the prep tent on the day of launch
[15:47] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's why I didn't say last minute, because that would be tomorrow morning
[15:47] <nigelvh> (Which I've done)
[15:47] <eroomde> it was only controlling the staging on N and M motors so not sure why i was sweating so much really
[15:47] <nigelvh> Bah, motor ignition, not a big deal. Who cares really.
[15:47] <eroomde> exactly
[15:47] <eroomde> minor fripperies in the grand scheme of things
[15:47] <eroomde> what matters is the LEDs
[15:48] <nigelvh> Exactly
[15:48] <nigelvh> Without indicators everything means nothing.
[15:48] <eroomde> infact we had a status led on the side of the rocket stages which showed the status of the rocket stage
[15:48] <nigelvh> Fancy
[15:48] <eroomde> i.e. whether it was armed, in there was pyro continuity, if it thought it was on the ground waiting for launch or in the air flying
[15:48] <eroomde> iain was the one actually arming
[15:49] <eroomde> and i was talking him through the LEDs on the radio
[15:49] <eroomde> and 'on the pad, all systems go' was a 1hz flash
[15:49] <nigelvh> Always fun.
[15:49] <eroomde> which i described as 'heart rate' to him
[15:49] <nigelvh> "Now if it blinks fast, it's bad, but if it blinks really fast, that's good."
[15:50] <nigelvh> "If it blinks so fast it looks like it's on all the time, it's going to blow up, but if it's just on all the time, it's probably frozen."
[15:50] <fsphil> "If it's getting brighter and larger, that's not good"
[15:50] <eroomde> and 5hz was flight mode (i.e. it thought it was flying - the arming person should never see that)
[15:51] <nigelvh> Unless they're taped to the rocket.
[15:51] <eroomde> and iain was like 'i'm standing on a truss next to a f*cking bomb like f*ck i should be comparing anything to my heartrate'
[15:51] <eroomde> he was a smite stressed the poor lad
[15:51] <eroomde> this is iain in the leathers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/definitivepicture/7145380303/in/photostream
[15:52] <eroomde> he stayed behind when everyone left the pad to retreat to safety
[15:52] <eroomde> to climb the truss and arm the top and bottom stages
[15:52] <eroomde> the leathers were to protract his death incase a stage went off during arming
[15:52] <eroomde> as opposed to killing him instantly
[15:52] <fsphil> who's the guy praying?
[15:53] <eroomde> james macfarlane
[15:53] <eroomde> (splicing the igniter to the launch box - james was rso)
[15:53] <nigelvh> When we had rockets too tall to arm, we drove a truck up next to it and stood on top of the truck.
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[15:55] <eroomde> more sensible
[15:55] <nigelvh> One way or another.
[15:55] <eroomde> we got a truck stuck in the peat getting down to that area so didn't bother again
[15:55] <eroomde> was all on foot
[15:56] <nigelvh> Yeah, I could see that being an issue there.
[15:56] <nigelvh> We generally launch on solid ground.
[15:56] <eroomde> oh for a salt flat
[15:57] <nigelvh> Yep
[15:57] <nigelvh> Though, it's not salt.
[15:58] <eroomde> what ios it?
[15:58] <nigelvh> Alkalai rich dust.
[15:58] <nigelvh> At least thats what one of the geologists said.
[15:59] <nigelvh> It's very fine dust
[15:59] <nigelvh> It used to be a big lake, so imagine the silt at the bottom
[15:59] <eroomde> sounds like it might get into things and corrode them
[15:59] <nigelvh> Yes
[15:59] <nigelvh> It does
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[16:03] <cuddykid> ping Upu
[16:03] <Upu> hiya
[16:03] <cuddykid> hi :) are you back from hold?
[16:03] <cuddykid> *hols
[16:04] <Upu> I am indeed yes
[16:04] <fsphil> right eagle. I'm going to beat you today
[16:05] Action: fsphil vs eagle
[16:05] <cuddykid> have a good hol? Would you mind if I got fsphil to ship one of his ubloxs to you to solder up on my board? (i'll send you some monies :D)
[16:05] <fsphil> place your bets now
[16:05] <nigelvh> What you battling with eagle for fsphil?
[16:05] <nigelvh> That will affect my bet.
[16:05] <Upu> Chuck Norris once tried Eagle and gave up
[16:05] <fsphil> I've started two boards before, finished neither
[16:06] <Upu> sure cuddykid
[16:06] <Upu> I still have your AVR
[16:06] <fsphil> it just made me want to scream, and punch a kitten
[16:06] <Upu> send another socket though
[16:06] <eroomde> persist fsphil
[16:06] <Upu> just a kitten ? thats level 1
[16:06] <eroomde> ask questions here
[16:06] <nigelvh> Eagle has what I like to call a "stiff learning curve"
[16:06] <fsphil> what's level 2?
[16:06] <eroomde> there are quirks, easily solved with a q
[16:06] <Upu> what eroomde says
[16:06] <fsphil> indeed. last time I didn't ask
[16:07] <cuddykid> Upu: thanks! will do if I can find one :) do you have a micro SD socket/holder thing?
[16:07] <eroomde> apart from step-and-repeat for layout, eagle 6 does most things i want now
[16:07] <Upu> I quite like it now
[16:07] <fsphil> tried to follow the tutorials
[16:07] <Upu> no and yours was errr "well used"
[16:07] <nigelvh> Which tutorials?
[16:07] <fsphil> sparkfun one
[16:07] <Upu> the instructables one isn't bad
[16:07] <nigelvh> I thought those were pretty decent
[16:08] <nigelvh> Though, I've had success in making eagle boards, so my view is skewed.
[16:08] <cuddykid> Upu: lol, would you mind if I sent you one of those up as well? That will be it.. i hope! haha
[16:08] <nigelvh> (A lot more than my view is skewed though)
[16:08] <Upu> as NigeyS is finding out make sure you placement is correct before you start routing
[16:08] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[16:08] <NigeyS> oh shh :p
[16:08] <Upu> takes a few goes
[16:08] <Upu> once of my boards I redid about 14 times
[16:08] <Upu> cuddykid send it all up, I can solder it up and check each part as I go
[16:08] <NigeyS> and remember icsp header are EVIL!!
[16:08] <fsphil> actually I might try that join.me thing
[16:09] <fsphil> for emergencies
[16:09] <cuddykid> Upu: you're a hero! thanks!
[16:09] <Upu> yeah it helps as we can laugh at you as you go, err I mean give words of encouragement
[16:09] <fsphil> :p
[16:09] <NigeyS> fsphil, im gonna redo this 1
[16:09] Action: NigeyS sobs like a child
[16:09] <cuddykid> I bet after all this trouble, I'll find my routing was dodgy.. haha
[16:09] <nigelvh> that's stage 2
[16:09] <NigeyS> lol
[16:09] <eroomde> get the schematic fully completed first
[16:09] <fsphil> lol
[16:10] <Upu> thing is NigeyS its all good, you have a better idea where to put stuff now
[16:10] <eroomde> and have a farnell shopping basket as you go along in the schematic
[16:10] <NigeyS> Upu, yeah true, forgot about the caps having to be so close tbh
[16:10] <nigelvh> I just do a parts list at the end and order everything.
[16:11] <eroomde> i find that stressful
[16:11] <NigeyS> snap
[16:11] <eroomde> especially with capacitors for some reason
[16:11] <fsphil> I think my main problem last time with eagle was I hit a part that wasn't in the library
[16:11] <NigeyS> spent hours the other night looking for 0805 caps and resistors
[16:11] <fsphil> and making my own library parts is tricky
[16:11] <nigelvh> Yes, adding parts has it's own quirks.
[16:11] <eroomde> you find a v specific capacitor which meats all your spec and you try and translate between different naming schemes to get the right footprint
[16:11] <fsphil> brb, gotta by muttfood
[16:12] <fsphil> +u
[16:12] <NigeyS> eroomde, hehe fun aint it! :/
[16:13] <eroomde> no
[16:13] <eroomde> i also want more monitors
[16:13] <eroomde> i think 4 x 24" should do it
[16:13] <eroomde> 1 x farnell
[16:13] <eroomde> 1 x schematic
[16:13] <Upu> :)
[16:13] <eroomde> 1 x layout
[16:13] <eroomde> 1 x datasheets
[16:13] <NigeyS> haha that would be bloody neat!
[16:14] <eroomde> Upu knows where the inspiration for this comes from
[16:14] <nigelvh> I have 2 x 22" and it works ok, but I agree, having room for digikey/datasheets would be awesome.
[16:14] <Upu> I'd have a 5th touch screen one for the jukebox
[16:15] <eroomde> my ipad
[16:15] <Randomskk> 4x 24" is good.
[16:15] <Randomskk> plus yea something liek an ipad
[16:16] <eroomde> i'd like to nab another u2410 on ebay
[16:16] <eroomde> when the price gets low enough
[16:16] <Randomskk> kicad -> saves farnell part numbers in schematic parts -> just click export and paste the list into farnell to order
[16:16] <Randomskk> tbh there's a way to get eagle to do this with a parts library too
[16:16] <Randomskk> one of the places I worked did it
[16:16] <Randomskk> so you design the circuit and export bom and for a given footprint and value it has the farnell code
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[16:17] <Randomskk> bit messy though
[16:17] <Randomskk> prefer the kicad way
[16:17] <Randomskk> anyway home time
[16:18] <Upu> yeah best go walk the dog
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[16:27] <eroomde> fsphil: what are you layout out?
[16:27] <eroomde> laying*
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[17:02] <jcoxon> afternoon
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[17:06] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[17:07] <gb73d> hi
[17:10] <eroomde> afternoon jcoxon
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[17:11] Action: jcoxon is trying to find a live stream from dayton hamvention
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[17:13] <eroomde> everyone else is after the live stream from spacex :)
[17:14] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[17:14] <jcoxon> is that today or tomorrow?
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[17:16] <eroomde> tomorrow am
[17:16] <eroomde> our time
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[17:17] <zyp> what is «our»?
[17:18] <x-f> .eu time
[17:19] <zyp> I've heard that europe spans several timezones
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[17:21] <fsphil> just a rumour
[17:22] <x-f> urban legend
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[17:29] <nigelvh> Hey jcoxon
[17:29] <eroomde> 'our' in the context of jcoxon and i
[17:32] <jcoxon> hey nigelvh
[17:32] <nigelvh> I sent a message to the mailing list, but I've been told you can do some magic and connect aprs to the spacenear.us tracker.
[17:32] <jcoxon> oooo
[17:32] <jcoxon> yeah should be able to
[17:33] <jcoxon> callsign?
[17:33] <nigelvh> K7NVH-11
[17:33] <nigelvh> We'll be flying tomorrow
[17:33] <nigelvh> probably 11-12ish pacific time.
[17:35] <jcoxon> are you testing it currently?
[17:35] <nigelvh> No, there isn't any data for K7NVH-11
[17:36] <nigelvh> There should be some data from a day or two ago from K7NVH-9
[17:36] <nigelvh> If it would be helpful I can do some positions for K7NVH-11 now.
[17:38] <jcoxon> i'm working tomorrow so would need to get it working now
[17:38] <nigelvh> K, I'll send some packets.
[17:39] <nigelvh> K, packets are coming through
[17:40] <jcoxon> running
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[17:40] <jcoxon> i've set it up for once a minute update
[17:41] <nigelvh> Perfect. Thanks!
[17:42] <Upu> what time is the launch nigelvh & what is the TZ ?
[17:42] <nigelvh> In the real flight tomorrow there will be separate packets for various sensor data, but you don't need to worry about that. Position packets are great.
[17:42] <Upu> GMT-8 ?
[17:42] <nigelvh> 11-12ish
[17:42] <nigelvh> Yes, -8
[17:43] Action: Upu gets his head round TZ's
[17:43] <Upu> 19th ?
[17:43] <nigelvh> Yes
[17:43] <nigelvh> Tomorrow
[17:43] <Upu> so about 1900-2000 our time
[17:44] <Upu> I'll set up the tracker
[17:44] <nigelvh> Yeah
[17:44] <Upu> I think we have some other launches tomorrow morning
[17:44] <Upu> so may clear your test data off
[17:44] <nigelvh> That's fine.
[17:45] <nigelvh> Tomorrow morning our time I'll probably send a few more test packets, but that be in the afternoon for you guys.
[17:45] <Upu> oh looks like its Sunday for the UK launcges
[17:45] <Upu> launches
[17:46] <Upu> got a link to a project page or anything nigelvh ?
[17:47] <nigelvh> Not really. There's a pretty brief description on my website. https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/?page_id=36
[17:48] <Upu> ok done
[17:48] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[17:48] <Upu> date might help
[17:48] <daveake> Upu Yep, Sunday looking much much better for wind predictions
[17:49] <Upu> hey daveake
[17:49] <Upu> if this is you doing less launches I'd hate to see you doing more :)
[17:49] <daveake> Might need to wait till the afternoon to avoid any more of this British drought landing on us though
[17:49] <daveake> Ah, yeah, point :)
[17:49] <Upu> yeah this is a very wet drought
[17:49] <daveake> I have a gas cylinder needs using
[17:49] <Upu> as good as excuse as any
[17:49] <Upu> whats it got in it ?
[17:49] <daveake> One of my best
[17:49] <Upu> He ?
[17:50] <daveake> yes
[17:50] <Upu> rgr
[17:52] <nigelvh> Thanks for setting up the tracker upu
[17:52] <Upu> nps have a good flight
[17:52] <nigelvh> I sure hope so.
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[17:59] <daveake> For Sunday I have a super new Upu-approved webcam, so you might be able to see what's going on this time :)
[18:00] <fsphil> aww, no more daveian
[18:00] <nigelvh> Umm, the predictor in the data asks for launch time, so I put in 19:00 UTC, but then if I hover over any of the points, it says time like it's local, but says UTC, for example it says launch at 11:00 UTC...
[18:02] <nigelvh> Also, it doesn't seem to deal well with negative longitudes, For example, We'll launch at -119, but hovering says launch at 240.
[18:03] <nigelvh> Not that these are big deals, just filing "bug reports"
[18:04] <fsphil> I'm surprised the horus guys never noticed the timezone bug
[18:05] <nigelvh> You have to hover over the map markers to see it. So it could be easy to miss.
[18:05] <fsphil> I think it's just a display error
[18:05] <number10> Upu, I have 434.650 for ANU this Sunday so you can track without local QRM :)
[18:05] <Upu> yay
[18:05] <Upu> I have a FCD as well now
[18:05] <Upu> no real antenna atm though
[18:05] <fsphil> ah ha
[18:06] <Upu> just the one I normally use for tracking in the car hanging out of the window
[18:06] <number10> nice,, use the watson for 434.650 :D
[18:06] <Upu> I will :)
[18:06] <Upu> Watson is moving slightly and being reused for the FCD
[18:06] <Upu> I got some new coax too
[18:06] <number10> hab spend is up I see
[18:06] <Upu> does it ever go down ?
[18:07] <number10> I dont think so.
[18:07] <Upu> needed to get some new coax anyway so got some Westflex for that and the yagi
[18:08] <number10> Would be interesting to see how the FCD compares to the yaesu
[18:08] <daveake> hab spend hit a peak this week with the 817
[18:08] <Upu> yeah daveake's been spending too
[18:08] <daveake> If only citylink were as efficient at delivering as I am at spending
[18:08] <Upu> well I got a FCD and a GoPro
[18:08] <Randomskk> makes this rtl-sdr positively cheap :D
[18:08] <fsphil> the girls in our office renamed citylink
[18:09] <daveake> Still, gives me more time to "mention" the spend to SWMBO
[18:09] <fsphil> replaced the c
[18:09] <Upu> wouldn't shittylink would it ?
[18:09] <fsphil> lol yea
[18:09] <Upu> snap
[18:09] <Upu> We have "Ooops" and "D H ell" as well
[18:09] <daveake> and ParcelFarce
[18:10] <fsphil> like that
[18:10] <number10> whats the rtl-sdr Randomskk - my google skills not that quick
[18:10] <Randomskk> these DVB-T dongles
[18:10] <Randomskk> that it turns out can send raw IQ data over USB
[18:10] <Upu> but all pale compared to who ever Seeed use to get their PCB's to me
[18:10] <fsphil> so an rtl-sdr could receive a payload on 434.075 and 434.650 at the same time :)
[18:10] <Randomskk> hence £13 USB dongle that can receive all of 433 to 435MHz at once
[18:10] <Upu> thats epic
[18:10] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/wombat-sdr.png
[18:10] <number10> thats neat
[18:10] <daveake> ooer
[18:11] <Randomskk> slightly annoying 75 ohm TV antenna connector and the sensitivity is not as good as the 817 probably (but hard to measure...)
[18:11] <Randomskk> however, £13
[18:12] <Upu> Just need people clever than I to link one to a Raspberry and an LCD and make a £60 SDR radio in a box
[18:12] <number10> I see a short presentation at the conference comming... HAB tracking for 13 quid
[18:12] <Randomskk> :P
[18:12] <Randomskk> yea...
[18:14] <fsphil> hack-in-a-box
[18:20] <number10> fsphil: how does your ft-857 compare to the 817 on recieve?
[18:21] <fsphil> for 70cm I've not noticed much difference. it's much better at low frequencies though (<3khz)
[18:23] Lunar_Lander (~gd-dirac@p54A07798.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:23] <number10> was thinking of buying something for HAB but also usefull for HAM when for speaking to you lot
[18:23] <fsphil> the 857 is much better if you're thinking of doing HF
[18:24] <fsphil> 5 watts can be a challange
[18:24] <jcoxon> much lighter though
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[18:24] <fsphil> yes, 857 is not terribly portable
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> I got a question for you again
[18:24] <gonzo_> all the 8x7 range are pretty good
[18:24] <fsphil> run, run now
[18:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> nice fsphil he really ran
[18:30] <fsphil> I can control people!
[18:30] <fsphil> Make me a sandwich!
[18:30] <number10> so the 857 would be compromise for hab tracking you think
[18:30] Action: daveake makes sandwich
[18:30] <gonzo_> waves wand and he turned into a sandwich
[18:30] <daveake> extra onion
[18:31] <daveake> extra philling
[18:32] <Upu> is the 857 the one that looks like its been pulled from a tank ?
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, you are back!"
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> yay :)
[18:33] <Upu> oh its the higher powered rig with no batteries
[18:33] <Upu> hiya Lunar_Lander missed me ?
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> XD yea a bit
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> I was checking zeusbot for when you once gave the formula for the NTX2 voltage divider
[18:33] <gonzo_> the 897 takes a big arsed batt pack or mains
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> but I couldn't find that particular day
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> even with the search function
[18:34] <daveake> Predictions for Sunday are kinda close to Rutland Water. I think I shall pack the HABInflatable :)
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, do you still know it or can explain it again to me please?
[18:35] <Upu> yeah
[18:35] <Upu> the NTX2 is a 3V module
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:35] <Upu> so the voltage on the "data" pin goes between 0 and 3v when its used as an FM module
[18:35] <daveake> What I usually do is .... get the same resistors as last time, measure gap, slap on another resistor and measure again. Repeat with different values till it's right
[18:36] <Upu> its a narrow band FM module so 0-3V means the frequency changes by about 6Khz
[18:36] <Upu> so 3V=6000Hz
[18:36] <Upu> so 1Hz means a difference of 3/6000 Volts
[18:36] <Upu> = 0.0005V
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:37] <Upu> so to shift the frequency by 425Hz = 425* 0.000% = 0.2125V
[18:37] <Upu> %=5
[18:38] <Upu> so if you're running a 5V arduino
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[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:38] <Upu> you need to get the data voltage below 3V which is what the additional 10K resistor is all about
[18:38] <fsphil> daveake: nooooooooooooooo
[18:38] <Upu> the NTX2 has an internal 100k resistor
[18:38] <Upu> on data
[18:39] <Matt_soton> also protip: you only need to use one avr pin
[18:40] <Upu> yeah I've never sat down and worked that one out
[18:40] <Matt_soton> its much easier
[18:40] <Upu> pro^2 tip you can use a DAC
[18:40] <fsphil> two resistors is all you need
[18:40] <Upu> on 3.3V I use 2 resistors
[18:41] <Matt_soton> two resistors set the cetnre, then one pulls the voltage up or down a bit
[18:41] <Upu> got a circuit diagram Matt_soton ?
[18:41] <fsphil> it's why I got you to add the extra resistor to swift
[18:42] <fsphil> resistor from 3.3v to ntx2, and another resistor from avr pin to ntx2
[18:43] <Matt_soton> Upu: http://imgur.com/J2qXC
[18:43] <Matt_soton> and yea i DAC'ed my last radio to temperature compensate it
[18:43] <Upu> oh I see
[18:44] <Upu> 1 pin 3 resistors
[18:44] <daveake> ^^cct is what I do
[18:44] <Upu> interesting
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Upu
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> on a 3.3V arduino I then need=?
[18:44] <fsphil> yea using the three means you don't have ot have such big resistors
[18:44] <Matt_soton> tbh if you increased the potential divider to 100k you only need two resistors, but meh to a resistor
[18:44] <daveake> :)
[18:44] <Upu> Lunar_Lander you can use 2 resistors with 2 lines
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:44] <Matt_soton> also you can set the shift with only changing one resistor
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> the mark and the space line?
[18:45] <daveake> Yeah higher impedance --> more prone to pickng up noise
[18:45] <number10> I do one pin and about 5 resistors
[18:45] <Upu> so as you can see Lunar_Lander one problem many solutions
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> do you need to do something on the enable pin?
[18:45] <Upu> :)
[18:45] <fsphil> 1 pin means less chance of messing up the software too :)
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:45] <daveake> That 47k usually ends up 2 in parallel, chosen to get the shift right
[18:45] <Upu> Lunar_Lander you can either tie it to VCC (always on)
[18:45] <Matt_soton> mainly you have a pin free
[18:45] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-177-210-248.range86-177.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:45] <Upu> or tie it to a GPIO and use the micro controller to turn it off / on
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, sorry see it in your tutorial
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> that the VCC and the EN are tied together
[18:46] <daveake> Nice thing about tying to Vcc is it'll keep transmitting so long as it has power
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> elmar has the EN on and off in his code
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> as I read it
[18:47] <daveake> So if the CPU cocks up you still have a beacon
[18:47] <fsphil> this is what I did: https://yoshi.sanslogic.co.uk/net/dropbox/schematic2.png
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> so there is no change
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> as I did it like Upu did
[18:47] <fsphil> only the resistor values are not very good
[18:47] <Matt_soton> tbh use the watchdog timer so if the micro screws up it resets
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD fsphil your page says on firefox
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> "this connection is not trusted by firefox"
[18:48] <fsphil> yea just ignore the security warning :)
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:48] <fsphil> I'm totally not hacking into your PC
[18:48] <fsphil> much
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:48] <number10> lol
[18:48] <daveake> lol
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> btw I am today using 12.04 ubuntu on the first day
[18:48] <number10> You now have controll of my PC fsphil
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> Firefox 12 has the button "go ahead" hidden
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> you first have to open "I know the risk"
[18:49] <fsphil> or use this url: http://yoshi.sanslogic.co.uk/net/dropbox/schematic2.png
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> to go ahead
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> there it is :)
[18:49] <Upu> I use Man in the Middle Me : https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mitm-me/
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[18:49] <fsphil> the flaw with that is as you increase one resistor, you have to increase both
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be stable now the hype has gone
[18:49] <fsphil> to change the shift
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, what does it do exactly? I just read it through and it seems like it changes what I just explained and also makes exceptions temporary?
[18:50] <Upu> no it just ignores invalid certificates
[18:51] <fsphil> I use cacert for that web server
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> which means?
[18:51] <fsphil> your browser won't trust it
[18:51] <Upu> mine or fsphil ?
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> if you have MITM-Me, you are let through on such websites?
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> or so?
[18:51] <Upu> no
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea, would have doubted that anyway
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> as that would be a weakness
[18:52] <Upu> if a site presents an invalid certificate normally your browser gives you dire warnings
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:52] <Upu> which is correct
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> like the one I talked about?
[18:52] <Upu> however when you deal with 300 firewalls a day all with self signed certificates...
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:56] <Matt_soton> whats the normal power source of a pico? i have stuff to do so i thought i would distract myself with a bit of board design...
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[19:00] <Upu> depends Matt_soton 2 AAA's for extreme pico :)
[19:05] <Matt_soton> i was thinking one AAA would be good
[19:05] <Matt_soton> the ublox has 33mW modes
[19:06] <Matt_soton> 125mW payload would last about 10hrs on a single AAA
[19:08] <Upu> your milage may vary
[19:08] <Upu> but I've struggled with a boost converter on 1 AAA
[19:08] <Upu> so has daveake and navrac I think
[19:08] <Upu> they won't start up
[19:08] <Upu> with the GPS on
[19:09] <Matt_soton> is that just because of the boost reg?
[19:09] <Upu> possibly but watch the data sheets :)
[19:09] <Matt_soton> some have Vin min to be about 1.5V
[19:09] <Upu> they lie
[19:09] <Upu> its not the Vin
[19:09] <Upu> its the power they can supply at that vin
[19:09] <Matt_soton> oh i see
[19:09] <Upu> it varies wildly
[19:10] <daveake> Indeed. Draw much current and the lowest Vin to run goes up. The Vin to start up is higher still
[19:10] <Upu> they quote 200mA but in reality it may be less than 70mA @ 1.5V in
[19:10] <daveake> yep
[19:10] <Matt_soton> well this one will give 200mA at <1V
[19:10] <Upu> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0417.JPG
[19:10] <Matt_soton> (tps61200
[19:10] <Matt_soton> )
[19:11] <Upu> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63720513/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0415.JPG
[19:11] <Upu> now thats the one I've used on my new board
[19:11] <Upu> however good luck soldering it :)
[19:12] <Matt_soton> thats massive :/
[19:12] <Matt_soton> and you even have a silk screen
[19:12] <Upu> let me check we have the same part
[19:14] <Upu> yeah
[19:14] <Upu> thats not massive
[19:14] <Upu> its the same a sa BMP085
[19:14] <Upu> but with an underneth GND pad
[19:14] <Matt_soton> oh it has a gnd pad
[19:14] <Matt_soton> yea thatll need reflowing then
[19:15] Lunar_Lander (~gd-dirac@p54A07798.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> back
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> sorry Upu my PC hang
[19:15] <Upu> nps wb
[19:15] <Upu> Matt_soton http://imgur.com/7uzgI
[19:15] <Upu> note abiove RFM22B
[19:15] <Matt_soton> oh the part i picked out as a pad
[19:16] <Matt_soton> i thought you ment your one
[19:16] <Upu> its very very small
[19:16] <Matt_soton> yea im aware
[19:16] <Matt_soton> i shall brb, off to sainsburys b4 it shuts
[19:16] <Upu> that board has a http://au.element14.com/texas-instruments/tps76633d/v-reg-ldo-0-25a-3-3v-76633-soic8/dp/8461422?Ntt=8461422 on
[19:16] <Upu> it
[19:16] <Upu> ok will chat when your back
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, cool!
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> Matt_soton, in your link here https://imgur.com/J2qXC is that for 3.3V or 5V?
[19:20] <Upu> I'd guess 3.3V
[19:20] <Upu> I think
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, I finally got the mightyohm geiger counter and assembled it
[19:20] <Upu> ih ok
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> it works, i.e. it makes sounds and the LED flashes
[19:20] <Upu> lol
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:21] <Upu> put it near something radioactive
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> will do
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> potassium chloride salt should be OK
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> next week I gonna connect it to my laptop
[19:21] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@x1-6-20-4e-7f-c8-44-7a.k599.webspeed.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> I got a T23 ThinkPad for the tracking car
[19:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[19:21] <Upu> ok
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> off ebay
[19:21] <Upu> evening Brian
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> should be OK to run dlfldigi
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> hi OZ1SKY_Brian
[19:21] <daveake> LL You can tell it's for 3V3 because of the equal resistors setting a middle-ish voltage
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> for 5V it would be non-equal resistors?
[19:22] <daveake> That's the implication :)
[19:23] <daveake> One to Vcc would be higher
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> is thinkpad T23 good?
[19:25] <Upu> no idea
[19:25] <daveake> Dunno. You've got one you tell us :)
[19:25] <Upu> does it switch on and run an O/S written in the last 6 year s?
[19:25] <Upu> if so probably
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> 1st question: yes, turns on
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> 2nd question: runs Windows XP SP3
[19:26] <nigelvh> Then no
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> well I can try to install Seven
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> and see if it runs
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> isn't XP OK?
[19:26] <Upu> XP is fine
[19:27] <nigelvh> XP should be fine I would think. It just wasn't written in the last 6 years.
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> true
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> that was back in 2001
[19:27] <daveake> XP is fine IMO
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:27] <nigelvh> 11 years on an os IS impressive.
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> and it like runs well
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> I mean it bridged the whole Vista time
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> when vista was meant to be the next one
[19:27] <nigelvh> Those were dark days.
[19:27] <daveake> just as well
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> and I hear bad things of Windows 8
[19:28] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'm not too optimistic there.
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> I am looking forward to the big cheers on Windows 9
[19:28] <Upu> XP fine, 7 Fine, Ubuntu fine, just give Windows ME and Vista miss
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> I run Ubuntu 12.04 now
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> is quite OK
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> nice thing is that the sidebar doesn't disappear anymore when a window is maximized as on 11.10
[19:29] <nigelvh> I'm not fond of Ubuntu's stupid new unity interface, but from the command line I love ubuntu.
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:29] <nigelvh> IE ubuntu server.
[19:29] <daveake> Yep. I use that on my servers
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> just a question
[19:30] <daveake> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sandwich.png
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> is it true that Win 8 was like optimized to run on tablet PCs?
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:30] <nigelvh> If only girls supported sudo...
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:31] <Upu> Apparently and its being designed to run on ARM CPU's too
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> when we had Win 98 SE and I saw Win Me in the computer magazines, I was like convinced that we have to buy that NOW!
[19:31] <Upu> thought I'll believe Windows 8 on a PI when I see it
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> but I was like 12 back then
[19:33] <nigelvh> What I HAD TO HAVE was OSX back when I was running OS 9.
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> is OSX good?
[19:35] <nigelvh> I love my mac.
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:35] <nigelvh> Just upgraded it to 16GB of ram last night. So I run OSX 10.7, and two linux server VMs constantly, and occasionally a windows 7 vm as well.
[19:35] <nigelvh> Runs great.
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> is that the snow leopard thing?
[19:36] <nigelvh> Lion
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh btw
[19:36] <nigelvh> Snow leopard was 10.6
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> ubuntu 12.04 has the london eye as wallpaper!
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> I mean one of the wallpapers to select
[19:36] <nigelvh> Fancy I suppose
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> btw do you still know the working title of Vista?
[19:37] <nigelvh> Longhorn
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> what a crappy name
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> Windows Whistler was much better I think
[19:38] <nigelvh> Not if you're a guy and it's true...
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> LOL!
[19:41] <nigelvh> "Yeah, the wife loves longhorn"
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
[19:41] <nigelvh> "She uses longhorn just about every night"
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[19:42] <daveake> "She hated Windows ME as it only stayed up for minutes at a time"
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
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[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> in ubuntu 12.04 there is a shuttle launch available as user avatar
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> just as on Win XP
[20:07] <Matt_soton> Lunar_Lander: that schematic i posted was 3.3V, but there is not much to change for 5V
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> I need 3.3V at the moment
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:07] <Matt_soton> oh ok, im suprised people still use 5V
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah cause of logic level issues?
[20:08] <Matt_soton> well i didnt think anything digital was still >4.5V these days
[20:08] <Matt_soton> almost everything is 3.3V
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:08] <Matt_soton> analogue stuff is different
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> the one humidity sensor at sparkfun is %V
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> 5V
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> that is analogue I think
[20:08] <Matt_soton> well it has digital parts in it whatever the output is
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:09] <Matt_soton> but i would probably use a charge pump rather then put anohter battery on
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:10] <Matt_soton> also Upu that regulator from farnell you posted was 2.7V min or so, i think ill end up with a QFN one, there is other QFN on the same board
[20:11] <Upu> hi Matt
[20:11] <Upu> yes its a 3.3V with a 250mV drop
[20:11] <Upu> so will be fine on 3 cells
[20:11] <Upu> 3 x AAA
[20:13] <Upu> but it could also run with 6 cells for extended
[20:14] <Upu> and its easy to solder by hand
[20:14] <Matt_soton> i was going to try 1.5V to 2.8V
[20:14] <Upu> it may work
[20:14] <Upu> just do your homework better than I did :)
[20:14] <Matt_soton> i could probably put the footprint for a boost or buck IC depending on what works
[20:15] <Upu> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps61200.pdf
[20:15] <Upu> that looks like it will work
[20:15] <Matt_soton> im seeing how light i can make a payload
[20:15] <Matt_soton> <20g should be easy enough
[20:15] <Upu> yeah I tried that
[20:15] <Upu> yeah thats doable
[20:15] <Upu> 15g I think
[20:15] <Upu> with 2 x AAA
[20:16] <Upu> and a chip antenna for the GPS
[20:16] <Matt_soton> 15g being just the batteries?
[20:16] <daveake> AAA is 8g
[20:16] <Matt_soton> i thought they were 7g each
[20:16] <Upu> 7g I think
[20:16] <Upu> 15g was a single AAA solution
[20:16] <Upu> but didn't work in practice
[20:17] <Matt_soton> i might be able to get <12g
[20:17] <Matt_soton> 0.8mm board perhaps
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[20:17] <daveake> My lightest is 6g + batteries/aerial/padding
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[20:18] <Matt_soton> so coin cells?
[20:18] <Matt_soton> or cell
[20:18] <Upu> AAA
[20:18] <Matt_soton> oh i see, + battery
[20:18] <Upu> don't think coin cells will provide the current ?
[20:18] <Matt_soton> yea dw i thought it was 6g all in
[20:19] <Matt_soton> also thoughts on http://tinyurl.com/6vnhd7l
[20:19] <Upu> expand past 2meters ?
[20:20] <Matt_soton> just launch it from churchill then
[20:20] <Matt_soton> but im guessing they would
[20:21] <Upu> http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[20:21] <Upu> 36" Qualtex ?
[20:22] <Matt_soton> i was wondering if there was a reason to using foil over latex
[20:22] <Matt_soton> im guessing latex would go higher but might not float?
[20:23] <Upu> doesn't expand so sticks within the 2meter regs
[20:23] <Upu> latex won't super pressure ?
[20:23] <Upu> foil more resiliant to U/V ?
[20:23] <Upu> making all this up but there may be some truth in it
[20:24] <Matt_soton> well can it be >2m when above airspace?
[20:24] <Matt_soton> 36" means diameter?
[20:24] <Matt_soton> how long until it doubles in diameter?
[20:25] <Upu> I don't think foil ones do
[20:25] <Matt_soton> the 36" ltex one?
[20:25] <Upu> oh latex
[20:25] <Upu> no idea
[20:25] <Matt_soton> this board is currently 16mmx30mm
[20:25] <Matt_soton> i wonder if it can stay that small
[20:25] <Upu> I think it can't exceed 2 meters at all including attached equipment for any period or it needs a NOTAM
[20:26] <Matt_soton> ok
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[21:28] <mlow> woo quiet
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:34] <nigelvh> shhh the internet is sleeping!
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[21:37] <nigelvh> We all know what happens when you wake up the internet, and nobody wants that now.
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
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[21:50] <fsphil> I think I hear it snoring
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:10] <mlow> still on track to launch this weekend nigelvh ?
[22:10] <nigelvh> Yep
[22:10] <nigelvh> Tomorrow morning sometime 11-12ish pacific time.
[22:14] <mlow> so...whats that in real time
[22:14] <mlow> Texas time
[22:14] <mlow> :P
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[22:14] <nigelvh> -x hours.
[22:15] <mlow> 1-2pm I suspect
[22:15] <mlow> whats the launch loc?
[22:15] <mlow> im guessing too far for me to track
[22:15] <nigelvh> Well, what are you? GMT-X?
[22:15] <mlow> -6
[22:15] <nigelvh> Yeah, so two hours.
[22:15] <nigelvh> We're launching in moses lake, WA
[22:15] <mlow> yeah too far
[22:15] <nigelvh> Probably a wee bit too far.
[22:16] <mlow> maybe if it floats a bit, but lets hope not
[22:16] <mlow> unless thats what your going for
[22:16] <mlow> some have, no judgement here
[22:17] <nigelvh> It would float east anyway.
[22:17] <nigelvh> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=9573c664f6eb7a8d2b9fe12c0225c3d59a6f1131
[22:18] <nigelvh> We'll launch from moses lake, hop on I-90 to ritzville, and sit there pretty much till it comes down.
[22:18] <fsphil> what a nice launch site
[22:19] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'm wishing it wasn't going quite as far east. It's not bad, but we do start getting little rolling hills over that direction.
[22:20] <mlow> lots of those circle things
[22:20] <nigelvh> Generally called farms.
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[22:22] <nigelvh> I mean I suppose it's easier in terms of irrigation equipment to have the single sprinkler line that goes around the circle, but it's a big waste of land...
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> as you loose some area?
[22:27] <nigelvh> Yeah
[22:27] <nigelvh> You don't buy circles of land, you buy rectangles of land.
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeae
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> *yea
[22:28] <LazyLeopard> Hexagons make a good compromise. ;)
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> and the circle like leaves some of the rectangle out
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah LazyLeopard :)
[22:28] <LazyLeopard> <-- too much time playing old-style wargames...
[22:29] <LazyLeopard> Probably still have a stash of hex paper in the attic...
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> battletech?
[22:30] <nigelvh> Anyway, time to go home and do the final prep. I may be on again then, or tomorrow out there. Don't know. Have fun watching!
[22:31] <mlow> watching?!
[22:31] <mlow> sstv? ustream?
[22:31] <nigelvh> On the tracker.
[22:32] <mlow> oh...
[22:32] <mlow> edge of my seat bro
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[23:10] Action: SpeedEvil regains feeling in fingers.
[23:10] Action: SpeedEvil just went out to post something.
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:12] <fsphil> not that bad here, but pretty bad
[23:12] <fsphil> this is suppose to be summer
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> I am looking for a new payload box
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> I got one that weighs 147 g
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> I am looking if I can find something even lighter & smaller
[23:18] <gonzo_> lay off the lead shielding
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
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[00:00] --- Sat May 19 2012