highaltitude.log.20120517

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[02:06] <mlow> hello
[02:07] <mlow> is there a way to find out some up and coming and recent launches?
[02:07] <Dan-K2VOL> ukhas.org has a launches page I believe
[02:07] <Dan-K2VOL> and arhab.org does too
[02:12] <mlow> thanks dan
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[06:53] <number10> jcoxon: do you have the capability and time to make payload documents active?
[06:55] <jcoxon> i have the time but not the capabilities :-p
[06:56] <jcoxon> try Randomskk, DanielRichman or jonsowman
[06:57] <number10> will do - didnt want to wake anyone too early
[07:00] <jcoxon> :-)
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[07:30] <fsphil> morning fine folks and folketts
[07:31] <number10> morning
[07:32] <jcoxon> morning
[07:33] <jcoxon> fsphil, i've started on the 434 tracker code
[07:35] <fsphil> what kind of board are you targeting?
[07:35] <jcoxon> atmega328
[07:35] <jcoxon> i've got an atlas board with a rfm22b already on it
[07:36] <jcoxon> hardware is actually done in theory
[07:36] <jcoxon> might need to upgrade the regulator
[07:36] <jcoxon> https://github.com/jamescoxon/Eurus/blob/master/70cmTracker/MainCode/MainCode.ino
[07:38] <fsphil> .ino is an arduino thing yea?
[07:39] <jcoxon> yeah Arduino 1.0
[07:40] <fsphil> I'll make up a matching board and have a play with it. what's the plan with this one anyway, low power?
[07:40] <fsphil> maybe even hellschriber again
[07:40] <number10> :)
[07:40] <fsphil> only as a backup, now the only mode :)
[07:41] <jcoxon> so this would be the main spacenear.us tracker
[07:41] <jcoxon> 10mW over UK
[07:41] <jcoxon> then switching between 10mW and perhaps 50mW out to sea
[07:41] <jcoxon> continous tx'ing
[07:43] <jcoxon> i though the slow-hell would be fun, perhaps at night
[07:44] <UpuMobile> I might have a PCB to go with that code jcoxon :)
[07:44] <jcoxon> UpuMobile, yeah its pretty generic :-)
[07:45] <UpuMobile> indeed afk a few
[07:45] <fsphil> the aprs tracker is going to be electrically separate?
[07:45] <jcoxon> i think so
[07:46] <jcoxon> the only advantage would be to share GPS and i guess downlink the status of each system
[07:47] <fsphil> the gps receivers are not heavy, no harm in having two
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[07:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:48] <jcoxon> for this tracker just a simple on/off switch
[07:48] <Elmar_PD3EM> morning all!
[07:49] <jcoxon> UpuMobile, how ready are your pcbs?
[07:50] <fsphil> I must see if I can get one of those helix antennas built for receiving the ISS packet signals
[07:51] <jcoxon> fsphil, you think a qfh would be best for upward antenna?
[07:51] <fsphil> yikes, it's 2.2m tall
[07:52] <fsphil> qfh might be too omni
[07:52] <jcoxon> true
[07:52] <jcoxon> and big
[07:52] <fsphil> yea, I didn't realise it was that large
[07:52] <fsphil> I'll struggle to fit that in the attic
[07:56] <fsphil> can go onto the shed I suppose
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[07:58] <fsphil> not even sure how I'd start making this
[08:00] <jcoxon> i made a qfh for weather sats
[08:00] <jcoxon> with pipe and coax
[08:00] <fsphil> how'd it perform?
[08:00] <jcoxon> not too bad
[08:00] <jcoxon> being in london didn't help
[08:00] <fsphil> true
[08:00] <fsphil> I guess it was pretty tall?
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[08:01] <jcoxon> about 1m
[08:02] <fsphil> hmm.. that's half the size this calculator is telling me, and the frequency isn't too different
[08:02] <fsphil> http://jcoppens.com/ant/qfh/calc.en.php
[08:04] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/2188701827/in/photostream
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[08:13] <fsphil> that is neat
[08:14] <fsphil> I'll check against another calculator
[08:15] Nick change: Laurenceb_ -> Internet_troll
[08:17] <fsphil> uhoh
[08:17] <griffonbot> Received email: PJ Hunt "[UKHAS] Couple of questions, if I may."
[08:18] <UpuMobile> like that jcoxon
[08:21] <UpuMobile> Internet_troll ?
[08:21] <UpuMobile> solarnrg isn't here atm
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[08:28] <fsphil> lol
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[08:48] <jcoxon> payload online
[08:48] <jcoxon> hmmm switching between radio powers causes considerable drift
[09:04] <eroomde> can we not talk about solarnrg UpuMobile
[09:04] <eroomde> i get sweats
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[09:05] <UpuMobile> lol he likes you eroomde
[09:05] <jcoxon> so for once i'm in a position to listen for hte ISS and apparently its packet system is offline
[09:06] <jcoxon> boo
[09:06] <eroomde> what is your position?
[09:06] <UpuMobile> I did that with Arissat was in a position to recieve it perfectly and it landed in the sea a hour later
[09:06] <Darkside> hmm
[09:07] <jcoxon> as in a radio that is on and tuned in
[09:07] <Darkside> guys: i'll handle the melbournite
[09:07] <jcoxon> thanks Darkside
[09:07] <Darkside> on the mailing list
[09:07] <eroomde> Darkside: ok
[09:07] <Darkside> well i want to get him on IRC
[09:07] <Darkside> so we can have a chat
[09:07] <eroomde> it sounds like some kind of blackOps
[09:08] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: probably due to the arrived new crew
[09:08] <jcoxon> i guess so
[09:09] <Elmar_PD3EM> no aprs received for the last 19 hrs: http://www.ariss.net/
[09:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Mark Jessop "Re: [UKHAS] Couple of questions, if I may."
[09:10] <Elmar_PD3EM> btw jcoxon , I managed to get the position converted to the right format
[09:10] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, oh yeah - how?
[09:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: a friend made a small function for it!
[09:11] <Darkside> ok if the guy rocks up, i'm back in a bit
[09:11] <Darkside> dinner
[09:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: http://pastebin.com/a7EgAn4Y
[09:12] <jcoxon> cool
[09:12] <jcoxon> and doesn't use floats :-)
[09:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: I'll update the code on github later today
[09:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> strings looks like $$PD3EM,98,09:13:11,51.8926891,4.8252781,-9,7,22,1053,0,18,0000*502B now :-)
[09:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> I also changes the GPSerror values so they are tx-ed
[09:14] <jcoxon> great
[09:15] <Elmar_PD3EM> the last part of the string (0000) is the error code
[09:15] <fsphil> Elmar_PD3EM: you could probably drop a few digits of those coordinates :)
[09:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> first number is for SDcard, 2nd GPS lock, 3rd GPS position and last number is for GPS time error
[09:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> fsphil: yes, can be... ;-)
[09:17] <fsphil> with that precision you could tell which branch of the tree you've landed in ;)
[09:17] <Elmar_PD3EM> lol fsphil
[09:17] <fsphil> I shouldn't mention the T word here, sorry
[09:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'll take a chainsaw with me ;-)
[09:18] <daveake> and a boat
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[09:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> now I need to design a PCB to put on top of the Arduino Uno
[09:36] <fsphil> you could stick an avr on there and do without the arduino :)
[09:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> fsphil: yes, but I don't want to make it to hard for myself ;-)
[09:38] <fsphil> true
[09:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'm not as good as most of you with the electronics and the design...
[09:40] <fsphil> neither am I :)
[09:41] <Elmar_PD3EM> I need to practice more with Eagle or use something like this: http://www.dfrobot.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=35_39&product_id=55
[09:42] <eroomde> argh
[09:42] <eroomde> wouldn't recommend flying breadbaord
[09:43] <fsphil> +10
[09:43] <Elmar_PD3EM> no but soldering on the empty shield would be ok or not?
[09:43] <eroomde> nicer to have more mechanically robust electrical connections
[09:43] <eroomde> like solder or wirewrap
[09:43] <fsphil> I have problems with breadboard sitting on my desk
[09:43] <fsphil> and that's at room temperature and not moving
[09:43] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, proto shields aregood
[09:43] <jcoxon> are good
[09:44] <Elmar_PD3EM> thanks
[09:44] <jcoxon> you can make good soldered connections easily
[09:44] <Elmar_PD3EM> I wasn't thinking of launching my bread board ;-)
[09:44] <eroomde> yes watch out for dry joints etc
[09:44] <eroomde> they can often get you in a flight
[09:44] <eroomde> also here's a fun tipo i've got from work
[09:44] <fsphil> just lots of flux :)
[09:44] <fsphil> +use
[09:45] <eroomde> when you solder a through hole part then chop the excess legs off, it's good to the re-flow that chopped joint
[09:45] <fsphil> make sure any surface being soldered is nice and clean
[09:45] <eroomde> because otherwise you get solder-leg-solder in cross section, and moisture gets in and attacks at the interface between the too
[09:46] <eroomde> if you just quickly reflow the joint so that solder goes over the freshly trimmed end, you don't get this problem
[09:46] <fsphil> I've also found it good to keep the heat on for a second or so. I used to be too quick and made lots of wobbly parts
[09:46] <Elmar_PD3EM> thanks for the advice!
[09:46] <eroomde> i.e. it seals in the exposed metal leg of the component
[09:47] <Elmar_PD3EM> the breadboard test setup looks like this now: http://yfrog.com/z/keboeajj
[09:48] <eroomde> tape up the battery pack for flight
[09:48] <eroomde> so the batts dont pop out after a rough launch or on landing
[09:48] <Elmar_PD3EM> will do that for sure
[09:48] <eroomde> and yeah, i'd make a shield :)
[09:49] <eroomde> basically cable and connectors are the weak spots for all these kinds of projects
[09:49] <eroomde> so minimising them is the key
[09:49] <fsphil> I make a section in the polystyrene that's just the right size for the battery holder
[09:49] <eroomde> stress relieve all your cables too
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[09:50] <eroomde> conformal coating (silicone spray) is a good idea too, once you're happy that you don't need to re-work the board anymore
[09:51] <fsphil> maplin sell a pcb spray, it's nasty sticky stuff
[09:51] <Elmar_PD3EM> yes and glue the last pieces in place as well....
[09:52] <Elmar_PD3EM> so now all is ready I need to make the PCB, get a box, chute and balloon ;-)
[09:53] <eroomde> tada!
[09:53] <Elmar_PD3EM> then its launch time :-)
[09:53] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, it makes me smile that you've got into this as you found my payload
[09:53] <jcoxon> i hope yours crosses back over - i'll go and recover it
[09:54] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: would be great
[09:54] <Elmar_PD3EM> but wind is most likely toward DL
[09:54] <jcoxon> indeed
[09:54] <Elmar_PD3EM> and we need some more trackers there
[09:55] <Elmar_PD3EM> found a firm that is selling the polystyrene boxes...
[09:56] <Elmar_PD3EM> but not 1 or 2 , he sells per pallet :-(
[09:57] <jcoxon> eek
[09:57] <jcoxon> i dislike making boxes
[09:57] <Elmar_PD3EM> me too, that's why I wanted to buy it
[09:57] <fsphil> I'm still finding bits of polystyrene
[09:57] <jcoxon> fsphil, seems like my current regulator can't cope with 50mW output
[09:57] <fsphil> from the last time I made a box
[09:57] <jcoxon> and this ends up reseting the GPS
[09:57] <jcoxon> will need to swap it
[09:58] <eroomde> why yo regulating current?
[09:58] <jcoxon> i mean 50mW tx power
[09:58] <jcoxon> and i mean the one i have installed as in the current one
[09:58] <eroomde> oh i seeee
[09:58] <number10> lol
[09:58] <jcoxon> fair point
[09:58] <eroomde> current regulator i.e. the regulator at this point in time
[09:59] <daveake> :)
[09:59] <jcoxon> or its teh regulator that controls how many currents fall from the cereal box
[09:59] <jcoxon> ;-)
[10:00] <fsphil> oh dear
[10:01] <eroomde> in Fergus henderson's instructions on how to make the parsley and caper salad to accompany his roasted bone marrow on toast, he goes into a long asside about the ratios of saltanas in saltana bran
[10:01] <eroomde> and how it is possible to ruin a good thing by adding too many
[10:01] <eroomde> and that in matters such as capers, one would do well to remember the saltana bran
[10:01] <jcoxon> hence the need for a currAnt regulator
[10:01] <daveake> -a +u sorry :)
[10:02] <jcoxon> right - moving on
[10:03] <eroomde> daveake just removed permissions from all of us and gave them just to himself
[10:03] <daveake> I feel the power
[10:06] <jcoxon> hopefully someone will be streaming the dayton hamvention balloon forum tomorrow
[10:06] <jcoxon> should be about 1800 gmt+1
[10:06] <eroomde> is your vid already available?
[10:07] <jcoxon> no, i'll put it up afterwards
[10:07] <eroomde> or are you doing in live like bill?
[10:07] <fsphil> is bill presenting it?
[10:07] <jcoxon> its just slides with narration
[10:07] <jcoxon> i recorded it - its awful
[10:07] <eroomde> with the 2 minute delay between him saying 'next slide please' and it appearing on his stream
[10:07] <eroomde> is it availble for us to watch?
[10:08] <jcoxon> my presentation or the whole thing?
[10:08] <eroomde> your presentation
[10:08] <jcoxon> not yet
[10:10] <eroomde> in random news i am finding unity (on ubuntu 12.04) quite tolerable
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[10:10] <eroomde> infact this ubuntu in general is quite nice so far, though i have not dug down much
[10:10] <fsphil> gnome3 is coming along nicely too
[10:11] <fsphil> you don't really notice until you go back to an older machine
[10:11] <fsphil> and suddenly everything just isn't as good
[10:12] <LazyLeopard> gnome's getting a bit big for my little laptop though...
[10:12] <fsphil> weirdly I find the newer versions are a bit faster
[10:12] <LazyLeopard> Might have to give the main ubuntu tree a heave-ho and try installing one of the lightweight alternatives.
[10:13] <eroomde> i was running on xubuntu before
[10:13] <eroomde> it's nice too
[10:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> instead of launch time I will now declare it lunch time ;-) CUL
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[10:39] <fsphil> mmm lunch
[10:39] <fsphil> got some egg sandwichs with black pepper
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[10:48] <fsphil> forgot to take a picture of my home made pizzas. eroomde would've been proud. or that opposite thing
[10:48] <daveake> He knows his onions
[10:50] <eroomde> u should go to franca manca daveake
[10:50] <eroomde> drop onto m4 and go all the way to the front door pretty much
[10:50] <eroomde> i think the m4 turns into chiswick high st automatically
[10:50] <eroomde> almost
[10:51] <daveake> pretty much
[10:51] <eroomde> i went t'other week on a sunday. FM for lunch then district line to the science museum
[10:51] <eroomde> parking was free in chiswick on the sun
[10:52] <daveake> £20 and you get to eat it ... not so bad
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[11:37] <spacekitteh> eroomde: not sure if you remember me, i'm the one making the search and rescue blimp who intially wanted to have a single onboard computer running both the autopilot and imageprocessing
[11:37] <spacekitteh> decided to go with a beaglebone for the autopilot and put the image processing on the ground instead
[11:37] <spacekitteh> instead of having two seperate onboard computers
[11:37] <spacekitteh> cool story bro
[11:52] <Laurenceb> you trolled yourself?
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[11:56] <spacekitteh> i wasn't the one who made that decision
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[12:04] <NigeyS> ping Laurenceb
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[12:10] <Laurenceb> sup
[12:12] <NigeyS> hey
[12:12] <NigeyS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigeys/7214973426/in/photostream
[12:12] <NigeyS> bit different to the 1 i sent you
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[12:17] <AndChat|189569> just at a microchip semimar and someome asked what the max range of 434mhz is
[12:17] <Randomskk> hah
[12:17] <Randomskk> ask a stupid question...
[12:17] <AndChat|189569> had to bite my lip
[12:17] <Randomskk> shame :P
[12:17] <Morseman> How long is the piece of string that they have?
[12:18] <AndChat|189569> hehe yep
[12:18] <Laurenceb> whats the radius of curvature of the earth
[12:18] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: I don't know about you, I use 434MHz for my intersteller communications
[12:18] <Morseman> How high is the hill that they are on?
[12:18] <AndChat|189569> the guy did reply sensibly that it all depended on the rx
[12:18] <Randomskk> and the tx :P
[12:18] <daveake> That the one in Oxford? I was thinking of going to that; bit too busy tho
[12:19] <AndChat|189569> rgr dave
[12:19] <daveake> I'm deepi in some pic24 code at the mo :p
[12:19] <AndChat|189569> hmmm not sure what happened to the nock... gonzo here
[12:19] <Morseman> Sorry not been about - XChat stopped working and I've been a bit busy :-)
[12:20] <Morseman> Do you mean the EME conference/ A bit on the pricy side as well
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[12:22] <AndChat|189569> nope this is a PIC processors talk
[12:24] <jonsowman> urgh, PICs
[12:25] Action: SpeedEvil has Pi.
[12:25] <jonsowman> :)
[12:25] Action: SpeedEvil checks ebay.
[12:25] <daveake> :)
[12:25] <AndChat|189569> i've been using them fot 20yrs. used to their funny ways
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[12:26] Action: NigeyS robs SpeedEvil
[12:26] <jonsowman> i've been using them all morning and they're annoying :P
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[12:26] <gonzo-mob> test
[12:26] <NigeyS> test fail
[12:27] <gonzo-mob> ah it's me again
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[12:33] <gonzo-mob> ah the free dev board at this seminar has an energiser lithium in
[12:33] <gonzo-mob> should ask for more!
[12:35] <Morseman> I do have a PICKit 2 but not used it much I have to admit
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[12:46] Nick change: spcekitteh -> spacekitteh
[12:54] <nosebleedkt_> hi
[12:54] <nosebleedkt_> just spoke with the helium provider
[12:55] <nosebleedkt_> they have 2 kinds of helium
[12:55] <nosebleedkt_> the good which they claim is 100% helium
[12:55] <nosebleedkt_> and the perfect which is something very very better
[12:55] <nosebleedkt_> they spoke about some four zeros 0000
[12:55] <nosebleedkt_> i didnt really got them
[12:56] <nosebleedkt_> it has to do with the quality
[12:56] <nosebleedkt_> the expensive helium costs 24e/cubic.m
[12:56] <nosebleedkt_> the good one costs 17.5e/cubic.m
[12:57] <nosebleedkt_> So what should I get ? ?
[12:57] <Matt_soton> cheap one, it makes no difference
[12:57] <Matt_soton> unless you wanted to use the remainder to make a laser or sometihng
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Pure helium will go _very_ slightly higher.
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Inert gas makes it burst sooner for the same amount of lift
[12:58] <Randomskk> depends
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> But you're talking meters, or tens of meters, not hundreds.
[12:58] <Randomskk> some places sell cheap helium as a 70/30 cut with air.
[12:58] <nosebleedkt_> SpeedEvil: do i need to go even higher? 36.6km is already enough
[12:58] <Randomskk> more zeros is entirely silly and I suspect they mean more nines
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that's 'balloon gas'
[12:58] <nosebleedkt_> even if i get to 35km its too cool for me
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> You - probably - want to avoid that.
[12:59] <nosebleedkt_> yeah they told me it balloon gas
[12:59] <nosebleedkt_> the 100% helium the called it balloonn gay
[12:59] <nosebleedkt_> gas* lol not gay
[13:00] <nosebleedkt_> rephrase
[13:00] <nosebleedkt_> They told me that the balloon gas its 100% helium
[13:00] <nosebleedkt_> probably that is false?
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[13:03] <nosebleedkt_> I need some answer !
[13:03] <nosebleedkt_> I'm gonna order !
[13:03] <daveake> Well AP "Balloonium" is 100% according to the data sheet. In practicve it'll be 99.9something
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> 100% helium, 200% nitrogen.
[13:04] <nosebleedkt_> and what is the other super wow Helium that costs 24e ?
[13:04] <daveake> In future, added unobtanium
[13:04] <daveake> more 9's
[13:04] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[13:04] <nosebleedkt_> no way
[13:04] <daveake> Which will make next to no difference to the altitude
[13:05] <nosebleedkt_> Ok. Am I safe to order the simple helium? 17.5e ?
[13:05] <daveake> Yes
[13:05] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if you can buy Xenon easily.
[13:05] <nosebleedkt_> even if it goes lower how much it the scale ?
[13:05] <nosebleedkt_> 5km difference? 500m difference ?
[13:06] <daveake> millimetres more like
[13:06] <daveake> Depends how many 9's :)
[13:06] <nosebleedkt_> cmon give an actual answer!
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> If you have a percent of air in the helium - it will go about 50m lower.
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Based on rough ballpark estimates.
[13:06] <nosebleedkt_> oh so little?
[13:06] <daveake> So take you .999 --> .99999 (or whatever) and calculate
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[13:07] <daveake> It's next to nothing
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> The air inside weighs the same as the air outside.
[13:07] <nosebleedkt_> I thought you were talking about kmeters !
[13:07] <x-f> nosebleedkt_, ask them one more time how pure it really is
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> (pretty much)
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> So what happens is the radius of the balloon rises with the dilutent gas - for the same lift - and it bursts at the same diameter
[13:07] <nosebleedkt_> x-f: i don't really want. If we are talking about 50m or 500m difference in altitude, I really don't care.
[13:08] <x-f> yeah, but they said "balloon gas" which makes me suspicious it might be a mix of helium and air
[13:08] <x-f> besides it's really cheap compared to our prices :/
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> GEt an actual percentage of helium in the mix.
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> If >90% or so, it's not really an issue
[13:10] <nosebleedkt_> x-f where do u live? maybe your country is richer than mine, which im pretty sure it is
[13:10] <x-f> i'm in Latvia, difference is not so big :)
[13:10] <nosebleedkt_> SpeedEvil always gives me the true answers.
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> Even 90%, it's only going to be 500m or so
[13:12] <nosebleedkt_> I'll call them after work one more time
[13:12] <nosebleedkt_> to ensure me that their balloon gas does not mean 70/30
[13:14] <NigeyS> http://i.imgur.com/Vhtzz.jpg .... tv dongle sdr, yummy!
[13:14] <Randomskk> :D
[13:14] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/wombat-sdr.png
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[13:14] <NigeyS> ures looks prettier! lol
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[13:15] <Randomskk> I was going to say the same about yours... :P
[13:15] <NigeyS> lol
[13:15] <NigeyS> need to find a better xtal
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[14:10] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Possible Launch - Friday 18th May Chalgrove"
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[14:34] <daveake> 817 arriving tomorrow :-)
[14:34] <daveake> Just in time for the weekend launches
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[14:36] <nigelvh> Morning all
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[14:47] <fsphil> nice one daveake
[14:47] <fsphil> hiya nigelvh
[14:47] <edmoore> somethiong cool has happened?
[14:47] <fsphil> dave bought an 817
[14:48] <daveake> sorry was so excited I forgot to read IRC
[14:48] <nigelvh> OOOOH Fancy
[14:49] <nigelvh> What did dave use before?
[14:49] <edmoore> nice
[14:49] <daveake> I'll ask
[14:49] <nigelvh> haha
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[14:50] <nigelvh> The 817 is the qrp all band all mode isn't it?
[14:50] <daveake> Well .... I had an AR8000 which wasn't good at 300baud, then an FT790R which died, and currently a Yupiteru MVT7100 (think I got that right).
[14:50] <daveake> Having seen the difference in noise level between that and proper radios I decided to spend a bit
[14:50] <daveake> Also have a Funcube dongle
[14:51] <nigelvh> Yeah, i've got a ham buddy over here with an 817 and he likes it a lot
[14:51] <daveake> The Funcube is great but a real receiver is easier to use in the chase car
[14:51] <nigelvh> In the past I've used my FT-8900 for tracking, but it only tunes in 5kc increments, so now I've got my icom 706 MKII-G in the car and that should work well for tracking.
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[14:52] <nigelvh> Well congrats on the new rig there.
[14:52] <nigelvh> Hopefully it will serve you well.
[14:53] <daveake> should do :-). Everyone has good opinions of them
[14:53] <nigelvh> Also, if you've got your ham license (don't recall if you do) then you can use it for normal ham use too!
[14:53] <daveake> Not got round to that yet
[14:54] <nigelvh> Well you should. Then you can use it for that too!
[14:54] <daveake> Yeah, I know :)
[14:54] <nigelvh> You're missing half the function of the radio!
[14:55] <nigelvh> In reality, I don't do much talking on the radio, but I do enjoy being able to use my license and the associated frequencies to put together neat wireless projects.
[14:55] <daveake> So I can talk to other hams? Like discussing the merits of N plugs over PL259s? And why it's worthwhile making my own aerials? Yeah, sounds fun ... :D
[14:55] <fsphil> I like using the digi modes
[14:55] <fsphil> some of the more unusual ones
[14:56] <nigelvh> I really like the satellites. I picked up some SSTV off of ARISSat while it was up and running.
[14:56] <fsphil> I sorta managed that. my colinear isn't very good for sats
[14:56] <nigelvh> Same here.
[14:57] <nigelvh> You could see the picture, but it wasn't clean.
[14:57] <fsphil> I'm going to build one of those helix antennas for ISS packet
[14:57] <WillDuckworth> excellent fsphil - any in particular?
[14:57] <fsphil> and sstv if they ever start that again
[14:57] <nigelvh> https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/?p=17
[14:58] <nigelvh> Those are the images I got.
[14:58] <nigelvh> Like you mentioned, I just used a colinear.
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[14:58] <fsphil> that's about thes ame as mine
[14:59] <fsphil> WillDuckworth: using this as a guide, http://jcoppens.com/ant/qfh/calc.en.php
[14:59] <fsphil> though it seems very long
[14:59] <fsphil> a full wavelength
[14:59] <WillDuckworth> cool
[14:59] <nigelvh> I built one a while back for 137MHz NOAA sats. I should put it on the analyzer to see how terrible it is up at 2m.
[15:00] <fsphil> haha
[15:00] <WillDuckworth> i've seen a few other sites with similar ideas
[15:00] <fsphil> I'm hoping this one is sorta alright at 137mhz too
[15:00] <WillDuckworth> copy pipe fun
[15:00] <WillDuckworth> coper
[15:00] <WillDuckworth> copper
[15:02] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: looks like those east to west high altitude winds are kicking in soonish - hopefully we'll have a great setup for early June!
[15:02] <fsphil> I may use jcoxon's idea and make it out of coax
[15:02] <fsphil> not sure I can get any copper pipe handy
[15:02] <fsphil> or bend it into shape
[15:03] <nigelvh> Yeah, I used half inch copper pipe and it was a pain to bend right.
[15:03] <WillDuckworth> hope so cuddykid - got every weekend in June booked with our CAA friend
[15:03] <fsphil> how tall is your antenna nigelvh?
[15:04] <cuddykid> awesome WillDuckworth! Is that for ledbury launch site? Got w/end of 9th booked for here
[15:04] <nigelvh> I don't recall exactly how tall it is. But it's fatter than the image on that link you showed.
[15:04] <nigelvh> It's more squat.
[15:04] <WillDuckworth> yep
[15:04] <cuddykid> brilliant
[15:05] <daveake> cuddykid When's your next launch?
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[15:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/17/lohan_motor_trigger/
[15:08] <Laurenceb> omfg they have been busy
[15:08] <Laurenceb> i mean they must have spent about 3 minutes on their project.. the horror
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[15:14] <SamSilver> a great lil chase vehicle > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TtHH0mkh-I0
[15:15] <SamSilver> amphibious to boot
[15:16] <daveake> Talking of the boot .... where can the gas cylinder go? :p
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgBNjdwYdvE
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> Is clearly better
[15:17] <cuddykid> daveake: possibly 9th June time
[15:18] <cuddykid> daveake: otherwise end of June, early July
[15:18] <cuddykid> and if not then - august
[15:18] <daveake> OK cool. I remembered it matched one of my planned launch dates but I couldn't remember which :D
[15:19] <cuddykid> yeah, I think it was 9th June
[15:20] <daveake> yup
[15:20] <daveake> For some reason I thought it might be this weekend
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/mzingale/wdconvect/ - fun
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Simulating last moments of a star before supernova
[15:26] <nigelvh> daveake: I found a photo of my qfh. https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IMG_0828.jpg
[15:26] <fsphil> good job
[15:27] <nigelvh> Damn. I directed that at the wrong person
[15:27] <nigelvh> It was you and I fsphil that were talking about the qfh
[15:27] Action: daveake looks up QFH :)
[15:28] <daveake> Well you've added to my education anyway
[15:28] <fsphil> lol
[15:28] <nigelvh> Anyway like I said, bending the pipes properly was a pain, but it seems to work well as an antenna, and the VNA says it's pretty nice.
[15:28] Action: daveake looks up VNA
[15:28] <fsphil> it's much shorter than the calculator I linked to calculates
[15:28] <fsphil> I'll try another calculator
[15:28] <nigelvh> Vector Network Analyzer
[15:29] <daveake> :)
[15:29] <nigelvh> I did note when I was making mine that there were a variety of calculators that gave different ratios of width to height.
[15:29] <nigelvh> I don't recall what I chose now.
[15:30] <fsphil> it's probably all in the ratio yea
[15:31] <nigelvh> Do you have a copy of EZNEC?
[15:31] <fsphil> don't
[15:31] <nigelvh> Makes these sorts of things really easy to test.
[15:32] <SamSilver> end fired means what?
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[17:12] <Bob_G8NSV> hi all
[17:13] <NigeyS> hey bob
[17:13] <Bob_G8NSV> hi nigey
[17:15] <edmoore> hey NigeyBob
[17:15] <NigeyS> hey ed
[17:16] <NigeyS> oo ed, got any sunglasses handy ?
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[17:36] <edmoore> NigeyS: do now
[17:36] <NigeyS> haha good... http://i.imgur.com/oJpnI.png
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[17:41] <edmoore> nice!
[17:41] <edmoore> and yellow
[17:41] <edmoore> what is she?
[17:42] <NigeyS> my micro pico board, might try and get it to 5x5
[17:47] <edmoore> micro pico?
[17:47] <edmoore> that's 10e-6*10e-9
[17:47] <NigeyS> lol
[17:47] <edmoore> which is femto
[17:48] <jonsowman> isn't it one order below femto?
[17:48] <edmoore> oh no that's bollocks
[17:48] <edmoore> pico is -12
[17:48] <edmoore> so you'de be -18
[17:48] <edmoore> which is atto
[17:48] <NigeyS> blimey
[17:48] <edmoore> attohab
[17:49] <NigeyS> looks nicer in black and gold i think
[17:49] <NigeyS> http://imgur.com/MYQBN
[17:53] <edmoore> defdo it
[17:53] <edmoore> spend the money
[17:54] <jonsowman> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonsowman/7216709402/in/photostream/
[17:54] <jonsowman> what do you mean, impedance matching?
[17:54] <jonsowman> :D
[17:55] <NigeyS> edmoore, $37 for black enig .. mmm
[17:55] <Matt_soton> tbh the 75ohm connector on the dongle is actually nearer 50
[17:55] <NigeyS> jonsowman, you rebel! :p
[17:56] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: just as well really
[17:56] <Matt_soton> not sure about the matching between the e4k and 50ohm coax though
[17:56] <Matt_soton> not sure they would have bothered tbh
[17:56] <jonsowman> haha
[17:57] <jonsowman> you're probably right
[17:57] <Matt_soton> opened yours up?
[17:57] <Matt_soton> mine just has a DC block cap
[17:57] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonsowman/7191395914/in/photostream
[17:58] <Matt_soton> the input impendance is down to the e4k not the board
[17:59] <Matt_soton> mine has 0ohm links where yours has filter inductors
[17:59] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: in that block of 8 passives?
[18:00] <Matt_soton> yea
[18:00] <jonsowman> interesting
[18:01] <Matt_soton> im guessing the e4k will have 75ohm input due to it being used in tv stuff
[18:01] <jonsowman> i'd assume so
[18:01] <Matt_soton> but they could have gone with 50ohm cos its easier (perhaps)
[18:01] <Matt_soton> equipment has 50ohm not 75
[18:01] <jonsowman> yeah
[18:01] <jonsowman> who knows
[18:02] <Matt_soton> those who signed the nda
[18:02] <jonsowman> haha
[18:02] <NigeyS> whats the U1 device with ARKJ on it ?
[18:02] <Matt_soton> regulator probs
[18:03] <edmoore> ark juice
[18:03] <NigeyS> lol
[18:03] <edmoore> it provides the joice to the arc in the chip
[18:04] <edmoore> it uses an arc as a kind of super wideband frequency source
[18:04] <edmoore> for simultaneous demixing
[18:04] <edmoore> i jest, that's not a bad idea...
[18:05] <cuddykid> ping fsphil
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[18:42] <Elmar_PD3EM> a Q about github... how can I change remote dir from git bash?
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[19:02] Nick change: Internet_troll -> Laurenceb_
[19:03] <cuddykid> fsphil: for when you pick this up - wondering if you still have a NEO you could sell me? if so, what price would you sell it for? PM me with details if it's a yes :D thanks!
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[19:05] <jonsowman> haha
[19:06] <jonsowman> ignore me please.
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[19:25] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
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[19:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> hi LL
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[19:32] <Lunar_Lander_> how are you?
[19:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> thanks. Good and you?
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander_> quite OK, thanks
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander_> what are you up to at the moment?
[19:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> busy with some HAB coding ;-)
[19:35] <mclane> Hi, I have some questions wrt dl-fldigi
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[19:36] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander_> hi nosebleedkt
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander_> Elmar_PD3EM, what are you currently working on in the code?
[19:37] <jonsowman> go ahead mclane
[19:37] <mclane> where can I configure the content of a received telemetry string in dl-fldigi?
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[19:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: on the code for my tracker
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[19:37] <jonsowman> mclane: do you mean the sentence format?
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander_> arduino+NTX2
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander_> ?
[19:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: yep
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[19:38] <mclane> yes; so that the data is shown in the top line (callsign, time, ...)
[19:38] <jonsowman> some versions of dl-fldigi don't bother populating those fields at the top
[19:38] <jonsowman> the sentence is just submitted to the distributed listener server for parsing and plotting
[19:39] <mclane> that would be my next question: what do I need to do that the data appear in spacenear.us/tracker?
[19:39] <jonsowman> you need to generate a flight document for your payload
[19:40] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/genpayload
[19:40] <jonsowman> then ask someone to upload it for you
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[19:47] <Lunar_Lander_> I just checked where to get info on the resistors for NTX2 on a 3.3V arduino
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander_> I knew we talked about that some time ago
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander_> is there a possibility to search habhub? because now I found Upu's page with a link to the pegasus page
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander_> dang how can I not read "Search the logs"
[19:50] <Elmar_PD3EM> yep... there was some talking about the resistors a little while ago
[19:51] <mclane> hello LunarLander; I have done that: use a 47k between the NTX2 input and ground; 22k and 22k + 4.7 k to the mark/space pins (or vice versa)
[19:51] <mclane> this gives a shift of 460 Hz
[19:51] <Elmar_PD3EM> I thought that is for 5 volts Arduino
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander_> ah thanks
[19:52] <Elmar_PD3EM> or is it also for 3.3 V?
[19:52] <mclane> the 5V arduino uses a 10 k to ground
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[19:52] <Elmar_PD3EM> yep. True
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander_> someone posted the calculation to here as well
[19:53] <nigelvh> BTW, here's the latest prediction for my flight on saturday: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=c4e04f8d3596bf2907d323d375c38be051e47a68
[19:53] <nigelvh> (made with some rather wide guesses)
[19:54] <nigelvh> I'm trying to nail down some data from previous years to see if we can get better guesses.
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[20:04] <mclane> I have a question concerning the flight document: I have long/lat in 10{5 deg (as a single integer) how to represent that?
[20:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> that's a thing I've been struggling with as well....
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander_> me too!
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander_> (not true yet but still would like to know a solution xD)
[20:08] <mclane> I would like to avoid float arithmetic or complex string manipulations
[20:08] <Elmar_PD3EM> check my GPS.ino on github
[20:10] <Elmar_PD3EM> First my output was like 518926628,48252779,-4 but now like 51.8926628,4.8252779,-4
[20:11] <nigelvh> You guys and your small longitudes.
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander_> ROFL
[20:11] <mclane> where can I find it on github?
[20:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> lol
[20:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> https://github.com/PD3EM
[20:11] <nigelvh> 122W over here.
[20:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> nigelvh: maybe you can test my code for that longtitude?
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander_> so the issue is that the lat, long is given in XY*10-5, but that isn't good, it is needed as XY.12345?
[20:12] <nigelvh> Elmar_PD3EM yeah, as long as it doesn't require anything special.
[20:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> that is when dl-fldigi knows what to do with it (as far as I understood that right)
[20:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> nigelvh: it's a simple setup with Arduino Uno, NTX2 and ublox6
[20:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: but best is that others with more HAB experience answer that
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:15] <nigelvh> I don't have an uno, but I do have a duemilanove, I don't use the NTX2 modules, nor the ublox6 modules, but I can feed it nmea. Or if it would be easier, I can just capture some nmea from here and you can test it yourself.
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[20:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'm not using NMEA... I'm using the ublox protocol
[20:17] <Elmar_PD3EM> It would be great if a few test tracks where available to feed into the flight comp via serial to emulate GPS so the code can be tested
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander_> Elmar_PD3EM, I got the ublox as well
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander_> what do you mean by ublox protocol?
[20:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: see http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
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[20:20] <Lunar_Lander_> ah that one
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander_> one sec
[20:20] <nigelvh_> yeah, I don't use any of the ublox modules. Just nmea
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander_> mclane, what exactly did you ask about?
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander_> sorry to sound stupid but I am like still a beginner on the software side
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander_> and how exactly do you get the coordinates?
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander_> are they ints or doubles or so?
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander_> Elmar_PD3EM, using the protocol means sending the hex commands and so on?
[20:22] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: yes, indeed
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander_> did I get it right that you set the GPS into airborne mode and then switch off the sentences you don't want?
[20:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: see different tracker code on github like the code from jcoxon
[20:23] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[20:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: ys
[20:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> yes*
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander_> ah you splitted the program?
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander_> I can see RTTY.ino and so on
[20:24] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: you need to put it in airborne mode to operate above 18 (?) km
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander_> that I have known before
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
[20:25] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander_: I split the code into seperate parts
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander_> what is MS5607 for a sensor?
[20:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> its a pressure temperature sensor from parallax
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander_> ah I see
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander_> like the BMP085?
[20:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> yep
[20:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> but still struggling with the temperature compensation code :-(
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander_> oh
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander_> in the BMP085 you read some internal memory and stuff
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander_> which has calibration constants
[20:27] <mclane> hello lunar lander,
[20:28] <Elmar_PD3EM> the MS5607 has the same kind of constants
[20:28] <mclane> i get the coordinates as long (integers) in 10e-5 degrees
[20:28] <mclane> using the TinyGPS library
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander_> so the coordinate is like X * 10^-5 degrees?
[20:34] <mclane> exactly
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[20:37] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander_> and that is to be transformed into a floating point?
[20:40] <mclane> that is what is required for the flight document
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander_> ah, spacenear?
[20:40] <mclane> yes
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
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[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> mclane,
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <Lunar_Lander_> <Lunar_Lander_> and that is to be transformed into a floating point?
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <Lunar_Lander_> <mclane> that is what is required for the flight document
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> That's easy...
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> Ok, your number is written in a format like this: a = x * 10^-5
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> a consists of the integer part (before the .) and the remainder (after the .), so a = n + r
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <Lunar_Lander_> yes
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> n = x / 10^5 <--- integer devision
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> r = x % 10^5 <---- modulo.
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> Now you only need to assemble the number...
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> n = n
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> But r' = r * 10^-5
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> <RisingFury> Floating point number = n + r
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[20:49] <mclane> ok, done, working
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander_> my slovenian friend is really good in such questions
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander_> :D
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[21:37] <Laurenceb_> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Dui8IAY9uqg/SjZDK85pqoI/AAAAAAAAERs/u8JpFROSboI/s400/Fail+to+Epic+Fail.jpg
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[21:57] <mclane> still someone here?
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[21:58] <mclane> to whom can I submit a flight document?
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> Where are you?
[21:58] <mclane> in Germany
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander_> me too
[21:59] <mclane> where do you live, Lunar_Lander?
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander_> osnabrueck
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[22:00] <mclane> quite far; I live in Regensburg
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
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[22:00] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah have been to nuremberg on the first weekend in may now, that was a long travel by train
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[22:06] <Lunar_Lander_> how did you find the chat mclane ?
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander_> I think I searched for high altitude ballooning or so and then found the UKHAS page
[22:07] <mclane> same approach for me
[22:08] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[22:08] <mclane> I am planning a balloon launch together with a friend of mine
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander_> I think fsphil was new at that time as well
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander_> and there was someone called ProjectCirrus or so
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[22:08] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
[22:08] <mclane> he found some videos in youtube and then we started to google around
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander_> when was that roundabout?
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[22:09] <mclane> about 6 weeks ago
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander_> was that before Raul published his video in March? (the space shuttle on the balloon)
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander_> ah ok
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[22:09] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - BUZZ and ANU launches ~1100GMT 19/05/12 from Elsworth, Cambridgeshire
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander_> then you probably saw that
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander_> hi daveake
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> just a couple of days till SpaceX->ISS
[22:09] Action: SpeedEvil crosses fingers.
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[22:10] <jonsowman> trackuino: please sort your connection out, the join/quits are getting a bit spammy
[22:11] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:11] <mclane> biggest challenge seems to be to get some helium for the balloon
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander_> really?
[22:11] <daveake> jonsowman I think Steve will be launching a XABEN too on Sunday but he's not confirmed yet. I'll let you know if he does
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> wait
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[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> how far is regensburg from wuerzburg again?
[22:12] <jonsowman> ok daveake, let me know & i'll update topic
[22:12] <daveake> willdo
[22:12] <jonsowman> not in cambridge this weekend unfortunately
[22:12] <daveake> :(
[22:12] <mclane> regensburg - wuerzburg is about 2 h drive on the autobahn
[22:13] <daveake> It'll be peaceful without the rockets going off :)
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[22:13] <jonsowman> haha yes
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander_> mclane, hm ok
[22:13] <jonsowman> makes it easier not having to coordinate with rockets
[22:13] <daveake> Indeed
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander_> in wuerzburg is tyczka gas or so, they have balloon gas
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander_> which is 95% He, 5% air
[22:14] <daveake> Didn't want the shortest ever flight :)
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander_> xD!
[22:14] <jonsowman> hah
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[22:14] <Lunar_Lander_> the lowest ever flight according to ARHAB was 8 ft
[22:14] <jonsowman> that's barely a flight
[22:14] <jonsowman> did they just climb a small hill with it?
[22:14] <daveake> That takes some doing since they normally start 30 metres up
[22:15] <jonsowman> what're you launching this weekend daveake?
[22:15] <daveake> 8 feet is where I let go :)
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:15] <mclane> we inquired at the local Linde Gas distributor; they told us delivery time is 3 monhs!
[22:15] <daveake> TeenyWeeny tracker
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander_> there seems to be some problem with He currently
[22:15] <jonsowman> still no H2 at ears I presume?
[22:15] <daveake> That was an EARS thing, not a landowner thing
[22:16] <jonsowman> oh okay
[22:16] <jonsowman> so, H2?
[22:16] <fsphil> good memory Lunar_Lander_ :) I piggybacked on ProjectCirrus's launch
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander_> yay
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
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[22:17] <mlow> Helium problem? Wahhh?
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[22:19] <mlow> I was hoping to start working on my box soon again
[22:20] <mlow> Hydrogen scares me
[22:21] <nigelvh> mlow, how's the aprs tracker going?
[22:21] <nigelvh> Do you have the HX1-144.39-3 or the HX1-144.39-10?
[22:22] <mlow> the 3 i believe
[22:22] <mlow> and i had it working last i worked on it
[22:23] <mlow> Lower bandwidth so i had to use that ceramic cap on it
[22:23] <nigelvh> Yeah
[22:23] <nigelvh> I ended up getting a couple of the -10 modules to play with as well. They're not a whole lot better.
[22:24] <nigelvh> To clarify, they ARE better, just not by a lot.
[22:24] <mlow> you do a write up on the differences?
[22:24] <nigelvh> I have not yet.
[22:26] <mlow> Is there a gist to it? or just "better"
[22:27] <daveake> Re ARHAB I must send in my last flight :)
[22:31] <mlow> theres no such think as a last flight
[22:31] <mlow> thnkg*
[22:32] <daveake> "previous"
[22:32] <nigelvh> The -3 modules have the 2200hz tone about 1/3 the level of the 1200hz tone, the -10 modules bring that up to 1/2.
[22:33] <mlow> hardly seems like it should be like that
[22:33] <mlow> i mean higher bandwidth beause of that or?
[22:33] <nigelvh> Yeah, it's not what I would call ideal.
[22:33] <mlow> constant deviation would be nice :|
[22:33] <mlow> instead of a big middle finger curve
[22:33] <nigelvh> mmhmm
[22:34] <nigelvh> Then again, these are cheap modules.
[22:34] <nigelvh> It's not a $100+ radio
[22:35] <mclane> to whom can I submit a "fight document" to track my balloon in spacenear.us?
[22:35] <nigelvh> Anyway, I'll be testing it in flight on saturday.
[22:35] <mlow> nigelvh: way to gooo
[22:35] <mlow> i look forward to it
[22:35] <mlow> is it listed on arhab?
[22:35] <nigelvh> No
[22:36] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:36] <nigelvh> Keep waiting to see jcoxon to see if he'll do some aprs->spacenear.us thingy.
[22:36] <mlow> aw
[22:36] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk BUZZ and ANU launches ~1100GMT 20/05/12 from Elsworth, Cambridgeshire
[22:36] <nigelvh> However, it will be on aprs.fi under K7NVH-11
[22:36] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:36] <mlow> how am i to sit on the edge of my seat watching your aprs track :(
[22:37] <nigelvh> By scooting forward a few inches?
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[22:38] <mlow> im standing
[22:38] <nigelvh> Well, then you need to sit down first.
[22:38] <mlow> this is uncomfortable to type
[22:38] <mlow> will you at least let me know the callsign
[22:38] <nigelvh> I did. K7NVH-11
[22:39] <mlow> noted
[22:39] <mlow> im not good with callsigns so im putting you in my phone
[22:39] <nigelvh> Sounds good.
[22:39] <nigelvh> If I end up seeing jcoxon on here, I'll ask him to run the aprs connector so it should show up on spacenear.us
[22:40] <nigelvh> I've heard that's a capability anyway.
[22:40] <fsphil> tis
[22:40] <nigelvh> fancy
[22:40] <mlow> spacenear.us is like aprs.fi?
[22:41] <nigelvh> Dunno any of the specifics. It's what all these guys seem to use.
[22:41] <fsphil> similar, but targeted at hab tracking
[22:42] <fsphil> dynamic icons, live tracking, etc
[22:42] <fsphil> tracking==prediction
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[22:43] <mlow> hm
[22:43] <mlow> well alright
[22:43] <mlow> so whats the use like then, doesnt sound automatic like aprs.fi
[22:44] <nigelvh> aprs,fi gets it's data from the APRS network, spacenear.us gets the data from the users who run a version of fl-digi and upload the data
[22:44] <oh7lzb> it's got fancy features for balloon activities which aprs.fi doesn't have
[22:44] <oh7lzb> like the landing spot prediction which updates in real time based on the current position
[22:45] <mlow> seems like it may be less reliable tho
[22:45] <oh7lzb> naw
[22:45] <mlow> having to have specific software seperate from the arps-is
[22:45] <oh7lzb> aprs-is isn't too reliable either, it's specific software too :)
[22:45] <mlow> at least for USA
[22:46] <mlow> aprs is pretty well developed here
[22:46] <oh7lzb> i've been banging my head against the aprs-is loosing data lately A LOT
[22:46] <Randomskk> well the key thing is we can't use APRS very well on UK HABs
[22:47] <Randomskk> but the other thing is that APRS is an even worse protocol for ballooning than what we use
[22:47] <mlow> my little 300mw tracker gets picked up by a igate inside my house at ground level
[22:47] <oh7lzb> and for the past weeks i've been writing code to collect data from 5 different points in the APRS-IS at the same time so that data loss at a single point wouldn't hurt so badly
[22:47] <Randomskk> our 10mW trackers get picked up 700km away before they vanish over the curvature of the earth
[22:47] <Randomskk> good luck doing that with APRS's 1200 baud AFSK rubbish
[22:48] <mlow> well you use RTTY right?
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[22:48] <Randomskk> (of course, if we could transmit proper APRS on amateur frequencies, it could get digipeated, but we can't...)
[22:48] <Randomskk> yes
[22:48] <Randomskk> typically
[22:48] <mlow> the data rate is something like what? 30baud?
[22:48] <mlow> 50 maybe?
[22:48] <Randomskk> 50 or 300
[22:48] <Randomskk> people use both
[22:48] <mlow> ah
[22:48] <mlow> well 300 isnt so bad
[22:48] <Randomskk> 50 is fine too for most purposes to be honest
[22:48] <mlow> but i bet since your using whatever freq u want that allows for some nice duty?
[22:49] <nigelvh> It really is
[22:49] <oh7lzb> The UK regulations are quite painful indeed
[22:49] <Randomskk> and works even better into the noise
[22:49] <nigelvh> I've run 80 baud on my payloads in the past.
[22:49] <Randomskk> but RTTY is a rubbish choice, especially with RS232 line coding
[22:49] <Randomskk> crazy
[22:49] <mlow> an rtty with arduino has to be like 10 lines of code haha
[22:49] <Randomskk> well
[22:49] <Randomskk> generating the tones can be
[22:49] <nigelvh> Also, I used 5 bit baudot rather than ascii.
[22:50] <mlow> anything other than afsk or rtty would be lossy in noise so...dont see whats better
[22:50] <mlow> or how its "rubbish
[22:50] <Randomskk> what?
[22:50] <Randomskk> loads of things could be heaps better.
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[22:50] <Randomskk> so the point here is that we use our format and developed spacenear.us because we can't use APRS airborne
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> RS232 isn't that bad
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> - if you have a sync demodulator
[22:51] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: having a start and two stop bits while not adding any FEC is the part I dislike
[22:51] <mlow> your not locked to single freq either
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> But it's really not very relevant
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> Generally you get LOS out to silly distances.
[22:51] <Randomskk> it's a r=0.72 code that _increases_ the odds of error
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> FEC will buy you maybe one or two or so extra sentances
[22:51] <Randomskk> yea, but the noise isn't all awgn
[22:52] <Randomskk> a lot of manmade interference messes with short parts of sentences
[22:52] <nigelvh> Anyway, time for me to head home. Have a good evening everyone!
[22:52] <Randomskk> or swinging, detuning, a lot of other random crap
[22:52] <Randomskk> a convolution code over each sentence with like r=.8 coding or something would be great
[22:52] <Randomskk> or at least, save more sentences.
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[22:53] <fsphil> yea, something to protect against the fades
[22:53] <Randomskk> anyway you could then start using significantly higher data rates and so start thinking about things like more live images
[22:53] <Randomskk> anyway bed time :P
[22:54] Action: fsphil looks at the clock
[22:54] <fsphil> ek
[22:54] <fsphil> +e
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[22:57] <mlow> thinking about putting a hsmmesh node on my box
[22:57] <mlow> but would need a bigger balloon
[22:58] <mlow> thinking my first one needs to be simple and cheap
[22:58] <mlow> lots of trees around here
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[22:59] <fsphil> urg
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander_> ohhh
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[23:14] <mlow> a tree landing would suck
[23:15] <fsphil> it does :)
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[23:17] <r2x0t> better in tree than in cactus, you may end like this: http://img-upload.over.cz/images/zzw8gwnb21dzl3t68h91.jpg
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander_> r2x0t, btw are you also preparing a balloon?
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[23:31] <r2x0t> yes, but had to put it on hold for some time
[23:31] <r2x0t> really busy at work, no time left
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander_> how difficult is the paperwork for it in CZ?
[23:33] <r2x0t> my plan is to launch from weather institute during WX sonde launch window
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[23:33] <mlow> i feel same way
[23:34] <mlow> 40 hour work weeks, etc
[23:34] <r2x0t> I talked with guy from there, they just have like 1 hour window for launches, at 00,06,12,18
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander_> is that near Prague?
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[23:36] <r2x0t> yes, souther Prague, 50.008 14.447
[23:36] <r2x0t> *n
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander_> and what do you plan for your payload?
[23:36] <r2x0t> arduino with rfm22 and some gps module for start, still have to design it and make it all
[23:37] <r2x0t> want to fly new experimental downlink mode as well, no 75Bd RTTY
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander_> sounds cool
[23:40] <r2x0t> another thing to try later is DSTAR repeater made from two rfm22b modules
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[23:40] <r2x0t> use arduino to detect sync and key the transmitter
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander_> so that people can talk via the balloon?
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[23:40] <r2x0t> yes
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander_> awesome
[23:40] <Irishguy> hi guys, melbourne here.
[23:41] <r2x0t> much easier than analogue repeater
[23:41] <r2x0t> as these modules can do all the demodulation/modulation of it easily
[23:41] <r2x0t> can even store pre-recorded voice callsign in memory to play it back for ID
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[23:53] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander_> r2x0t, so that is the radio-technological part
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander_> do you plan more experiments in physics, chemistry, biology?
[23:54] <r2x0t> when this is working, I would like to find a way how to read data from RS92-SGP sensor unit
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander_> the vaisala radiosonde?
[23:54] <r2x0t> I think it's all just SPI
[23:54] <r2x0t> yes
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[23:54] <r2x0t> the sensor boom is small PCB with ADCs and some uC
[23:55] <r2x0t> have 20 of them in a box, so this may be some way how to use them at least for something...
[23:55] <r2x0t> but priority is just the GMSK based downlink mode
[23:55] <r2x0t> if it works, I will put all code for it online for others to use
[00:00] --- Fri May 18 2012