highaltitude.log.20120516

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[06:24] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
[06:24] <Lunar_Lander_> good morning
[06:29] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) joined #highaltitude.
[06:37] <eroomde> morning
[06:38] <Lunar_Lander_> everything OK?
[06:39] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:39] <Lunar_Lander_> morning daveake
[06:40] <daveake> morning
[06:41] <Lunar_Lander_> how are the projects progressing eroomde daveake ?
[06:42] <number10> morning
[06:42] <daveake> Morning #10
[06:42] <daveake> LL Projects? Work? Fine at the mo
[06:45] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[06:45] <Lunar_Lander_> morning number10
[06:45] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, I got my own working table at the lab now, which is good
[06:45] <number10> morning Lunar_Lander_
[06:45] <Lunar_Lander_> finished the mightyohm geiger counter
[06:45] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander_: slow for me
[06:45] <eroomde> deliberately
[06:45] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[06:45] <Lunar_Lander_> are you still looking for the rocket payload?
[06:46] <eroomde> after the big 2 stage rocket im leaving work at 6pm and being social
[06:46] <eroomde> for a couple of weeks anyway
[06:46] <eroomde> yes it has not been found yet
[06:46] <eroomde> im not actively looking for it - its in the scottish highlands somewhe
[06:46] <eroomde> im down in oxford
[06:46] <eroomde> hopefully someone will find it though
[06:47] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[06:47] <eroomde> all that said, i am doing a back of the envelope liquid rocket engine design thats meant to be as cheap and simple as possible
[06:47] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[06:48] <Lunar_Lander_> I made a shocking discovery while listening to NDR2 (public radio here) earlier
[06:48] <eroomde> i want to try and get my ukra level 1 with it
[06:48] <eroomde> oh?
[06:48] <Lunar_Lander_> the hosts were first talking all the time according to the webcam but in the radio there was music
[06:48] <Lunar_Lander_> then they were talking but the studio was unmanned for almost the whole first hour!
[06:48] <Lunar_Lander_> I assume they talked all the stuff into the computer and went to breakfast or so
[06:49] <daveake> shocking
[06:49] <daveake> they'll be taking pee breaks next
[06:49] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[06:50] <daveake> Talking of webcams :-), I've got an expensive new one for added viewer pleasure during my next launch
[06:50] <eroomde> you need bbc radio 4
[06:50] <eroomde> therre are no other radio stations
[06:50] <Lunar_Lander_> YAY TIMC!
[06:50] <Lunar_Lander_> with brian cox
[06:50] <eroomde> except radio 3 in small doses
[06:50] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[06:50] <Lunar_Lander_> I can receive BFBS Germany here
[06:51] <eroomde> bfsf?
[06:51] <eroomde> whoops
[06:51] <eroomde> whatever that acronym was
[06:51] <daveake> As a teenager I made a tiny radio. It could only pick up radio 4. I consider that part of my education :-)
[06:51] <Lunar_Lander_> british forces broadcasting station
[06:53] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, yay!
[06:53] <Lunar_Lander_> let's write that to the infinite monkey cage
[06:54] <Lunar_Lander_> "Dear Professor Cox, I am dave and when I was a teenager many years ago, I made my own radio that could only receive Radio 4, still I consider this a great boost of my interest in science"
[06:54] <eroomde> radio is amaaaaaaazing
[06:55] <eroomde> we're all made of doost
[06:55] <eroomde> look at this number ive drawn into the sand
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[06:55] <eroomde> its a really, really big number
[06:55] <Lunar_Lander_> YES!
[06:56] <daveake> One of these btw http://k1.dyndns.org/Vintage/Sinclair/Other%20Inventions/Micromatic%20Transistor%20Radio/
[06:56] <daveake> Actually I meant that "Radio 4 being part of my teenage years" was an education
[06:57] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[06:57] <number10> I remeber making one of those
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[06:58] <daveake> It was a regenerative receiver, the gain of which was adjusted by squeezing two components together. Typical Sinclair inventiveness / penny pinching
[06:58] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[06:58] <number10> I think he used to fund a lot of projects on pre-orders
[06:59] <daveake> Yep
[06:59] <daveake> Also it was switched on via the jack plug. Can't remember seeing that again till the iPod.
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[07:06] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[07:06] <Lunar_Lander_> innovation
[07:07] <eroomde> lemo connectors btw - like a jack plug but made of purest win
[07:17] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[07:23] <jcoxon> so it seems the high alt winds (Above the JS) have switched
[07:23] <Lunar_Lander_> ah hi jcoxon
[07:23] <Lunar_Lander_> you left yesterday just as I got the name of the substance
[07:23] <Lunar_Lander_> it is Amoxicillin
[07:23] <jcoxon> so much so that a 30km+ floater could actually make it across the atlantic
[07:24] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
[07:24] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander_, amox should be okay with alcohol but if you are unwell its best to avoid alcohol anyway
[07:24] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah, I think so too
[07:25] <eroomde> except fernet branca
[07:25] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[07:25] <eroomde> once youve got over the taste itll sort out any bugs in your gut
[07:26] <jcoxon> the one people worry about is metronidazole
[07:26] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[07:26] <jcoxon> due to di-sulfide bridges
[07:26] <Lunar_Lander_> which can be broken by alcohol?
[07:28] <jcoxon> oh i don't mean disulfide sorry i mean disulifram
[07:28] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[07:28] <jcoxon> a bit off topic
[07:29] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[07:29] <fsphil> across the atlantic the wrong way?
[07:29] <jcoxon> yup
[07:29] <fsphil> gonna try it?
[07:29] <fsphil> I can't launch yet
[07:30] <jcoxon> http://nstar.org/GFS/10mb/10mb.180.png
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[07:32] <jcoxon> fsphil, its very tempting
[07:32] <jcoxon> nice thing is that if we don't get float then we'd have lots of hte uk to land in
[07:33] <Lunar_Lander_> awesome!
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[07:34] <Lunar_Lander_> I think I'll get a bit of sleep
[07:34] <Lunar_Lander_> cu later!
[07:34] <fsphil> sleep would be good
[07:34] <fsphil> nite!
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[07:35] <fsphil> I didn't think a flight like that would be possible
[07:35] <jcoxon> well it hasn't really been before
[07:35] <jcoxon> we haven't had the balloons to do it
[07:36] <jcoxon> the question is how to track the damn thing
[07:36] <fsphil> you'd need a station in newfoundland
[07:36] <fsphil> and iceland
[07:36] <fsphil> well maybe that's too far north
[07:37] <fsphil> hf might be the only viable option
[07:37] <fsphil> it's too risky to put a spot on there
[07:38] <jcoxon> rfm22b could up to 100mW out side UK
[07:38] <jcoxon> agreed, my spot connect is not ready for the big time
[07:38] <jcoxon> packet via APRS
[07:38] <jcoxon> i mean ISS
[07:38] <fsphil> wonder if we can replace the crystal in the ntx2 to get the iss frequency
[07:38] <fsphil> er, hx1 even
[07:38] <fsphil> not ntx2
[07:39] <jcoxon> might be able to get radiometrix to get us one
[07:39] <fsphil> would 300mw be enough
[07:40] <jcoxon> not really sure
[07:41] <jcoxon> the guys in teh states who tried it didn't work out to well
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[07:44] <fsphil> well I've got the radios, I can try at 500mw
[07:44] <fsphil> antenna will be the key
[07:44] <fsphil> needs to gain to the sky
[07:44] <fsphil> to/good
[07:45] <gonzo-mob> vhf?
[07:45] <fsphil> yea
[07:45] <fsphil> 145.825mhz
[07:45] <gonzo-mob> ah iss
[07:45] <fsphil> has about 4 passes per day, would be really handy if we can relay through it
[07:46] <gonzo-mob> interesting experimrnt but wouldn't wabt to rely on it
[07:47] <fsphil> yea, they don't always have the repeater switched on
[07:47] <jcoxon> 2m ant facing up, 70cm facing down
[07:48] <gonzo-mob> the track shifts with each pass so you can get days woth no coverage (i'm thinking ground based though, not sure how the alt will chabge it)
[07:48] <jcoxon> could also strip down a cheap handheld
[07:49] <jcoxon> swap the batteries for lithiums
[07:49] <jcoxon> even preset some freqs
[07:49] <jcoxon> a micro could control all that
[07:49] <gonzo-mob> there are some tiny dual banders avail cheap now
[07:50] <oh7lzb> somebody already wrote the code to switch to the ISS frequency based on it's availability (sat tracking)
[07:50] <gonzo-mob> just looking for some cheap hhelds for our club. cn get chinese uhf pmr ones for about 15£ !
[07:51] <gonzo-mob> less than an ntx2
[07:51] <jcoxon> http://code.google.com/p/qrptracker/
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[07:57] <fsphil> yea the baofengs are really small and cheap
[07:57] <fsphil> and can do 5 watts
[08:07] <jcoxon> indeed
[08:07] <jcoxon> wouxon is 59
[08:08] <jcoxon> and those baofengs are 20-30 on ebay
[08:08] <gonzo-mob> the ones we looked at were 2watt 400-470
[08:08] <gonzo-mob> and soooooo cheap
[08:09] <gonzo-mob> 6 for 92ukp
[08:09] <fsphil> the baofeng is dual band- it's got a serial port but I'm not sure of the protocol
[08:09] <jcoxon> i'd be thinking we strip out off the case
[08:09] <jcoxon> replace the batteries with lithiums
[08:09] <fsphil> yea, solder directly
[08:09] <jcoxon> pre-program out freqs
[08:09] <jcoxon> and then have an atmega control it
[08:10] <jcoxon> and do the pwm output
[08:10] <jonsowman> morning all
[08:10] <gonzo-mob> pwm?
[08:10] <fsphil> the afsk tones are generated using pwm
[08:10] <fsphil> the hx1 has enough filtering to clean out the high frequency mess
[08:11] <gonzo-mob> rrr
[08:11] <fsphil> avr's don't have a real dac
[08:12] <jcoxon> fsphil, would the audio in be happy with that in this case?
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[08:12] <fsphil> it should be. but if not, an rc-filter should clean it up
[08:12] <fsphil> the pwm is running really fast
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[08:15] <gonzo-mob> if yoi have more than one pwm pin, could o/p the tones on different pins anc use separate rc filters for each tone
[08:15] <fsphil> my concern would be how the cheap radios perform at low temperature
[08:15] <jonsowman> the tones are like 1.2 and 2.2 khz aren't they?
[08:16] <fsphil> yea
[08:16] <jonsowman> if you pwm at 64khz then an RC filter will be fine for both
[08:16] <fsphil> or 1.2 and 2.4. not sure
[08:16] <jonsowman> bell 202 iirc
[08:16] <fsphil> I'm not sure what I have the pwm frequency at. it's the fastest it can go anyway
[08:17] <jonsowman> we got 62.5kHz out of an arduino
[08:17] <gonzo-mob> but would still hsve hatmonics of tjr basr freq
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[08:17] <gonzo-mob> i hate tablet kbds!
[08:17] <jonsowman> that worked fine with an RC filter and an NTX2
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[08:17] <fsphil> yea, 1200 and 2200 hz
[08:18] <jonsowman> are you going to be making up a board for this thing?
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[08:20] Nick change: mazzanet_ -> mazzanet
[08:20] <jcoxon> jonsowman, just an update: http://nstar.org/GFS/10mb/10mb.180.png
[08:20] <fsphil> I think it's at the 'what if' stage
[08:20] <fsphil> although it could easly be hacked onto an existing board
[08:20] <earthshine> Morning
[08:20] <fsphil> hiya earthshine
[08:20] <jonsowman> jcoxon: cool :) you planning on launching soon?
[08:20] <jcoxon> i'd say this was #highaltitude brainstorming session
[08:20] <jcoxon> jonsowman, well...
[08:21] <jcoxon> the predicitions are like this for quite a while
[08:21] <jonsowman> ah oh, i missed the start of this conversation
[08:21] <jcoxon> in theory we could trans-a with a howyee floater
[08:21] <fsphil> we where pondering how to track a flight that way
[08:21] <jcoxon> not too expensive
[08:21] <fsphil> APRS via the ISS may be the cheapest option
[08:22] <jonsowman> ah got you
[08:22] <jcoxon> fsphil, but we could also switch to US APRS on the other side
[08:22] <jcoxon> maybe even icelandic aprs
[08:23] <jonsowman> just as an option
[08:23] <jonsowman> how about an ARM?
[08:23] <jonsowman> inbuilt 12bit DAC
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[08:23] <gonzo-mob> need a constelation of aprs rptr habs
[08:24] <fsphil> jcoxon: good point
[08:24] <fsphil> one of the advantages of having a proper radio
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[08:36] <jcoxon> jonsowman, we'd need to crack on with this - you got a pre-built board?
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[08:36] <jonsowman> jcoxon: what does it need to do/
[08:36] <jonsowman> ?
[08:37] <jcoxon> so audio tones for packet into a handheld radio
[08:37] <jonsowman> if time is an issue i'd suggest an arduino pro mini or something
[08:37] <jonsowman> the PWM + RC filter thing should work fine
[08:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:38] <jcoxon> and we have code for that
[08:38] <jonsowman> yep
[08:38] <jonsowman> i don't see why that shouldn't work
[08:38] <jonsowman> nice and simple :)
[08:38] <jcoxon> i'd think we'd want to launch pretty soon
[08:41] <jonsowman> yeah
[08:44] <gonzo-mob> you use the pwm to generate pseudo sinr wave?
[08:44] <fsphil> yea
[08:44] <fsphil> high frequency pwm used to generate the audio frequencies
[08:45] <fsphil> levels even
[08:45] <gonzo-mob> ok. ptob reasonably clean then. though was judt been used as osc
[08:45] <fsphil> the sine wave is done in software
[08:45] <jcoxon> okay - who is up for this mission?
[08:46] <fsphil> I've got nice aprs code if you want it :)
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[08:46] <fsphil> can do some coding, testing and tracking
[08:47] <jcoxon> fsphil, excellent
[08:47] <jonsowman> i'm certainly around to help, how much time i can dedicate i don't really know at the moment
[08:47] <jcoxon> i propose we put a deadline
[08:47] <jonsowman> but i certainly want to be involved :)
[08:47] <jcoxon> launch by Mon 4th June
[08:48] <jonsowman> we're likely to have a launch from cam already on weekend 2-3 June
[08:48] <jonsowman> if you wanted to launch from here
[08:48] <jcoxon> jonsowman, could also launch from suffolk with the barn
[08:48] <jonsowman> yes that's also fine
[08:48] <jonsowman> :)
[08:48] <jcoxon> but thats the easy part
[08:48] <jonsowman> true
[08:51] <jcoxon> excellent
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[08:51] <jcoxon> ballast?
[08:52] <fsphil> would it be needed?
[08:52] <jcoxon> i don't think so
[08:52] <jcoxon> if it goes down it'll go down quickly
[08:52] <fsphil> yea
[08:52] <jcoxon> there aren;t any other sats we could use?
[08:52] <fsphil> could one of the larger howyeeses simulate a zp balloon?
[08:53] <fsphil> well not simulate, but act as
[08:53] <fsphil> leaving the bottom open
[08:54] <fsphil> there was a satellite that did aprs, think it was called pcsat?
[08:54] <fsphil> or is my memory making that up?
[08:55] <jcoxon> fsphil, not sure we should explore howyee as a ZP
[08:55] <jcoxon> i wonder if the residual elasticity would cause it to loose more He
[08:56] <fsphil> yea. starting to make it complicated
[08:56] <jcoxon> with He getting a bit pricey we could go for H2
[08:56] <jcoxon> i think the CNSP used H2
[08:56] <fsphil> steve's all the bits needed
[08:56] <fsphil> they did
[08:57] <fsphil> which may be why it floated so far. but chemistry is not my strong point, no idea if the gas would make a difference
[08:57] <jonsowman> must disappear for a bit
[08:57] <jonsowman> will read scrollback when i return :) bbl
[08:57] <fsphil> lol
[08:57] Action: fsphil waves to jonsowman of the future
[08:58] <jcoxon> yeah in theory He is more nifty at escaping
[08:59] <fsphil> yea I think this flight should use H2
[09:00] <jcoxon> shame that H2 is expensive as well
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[09:01] <jcoxon> so something like - a normal rfm22b tracker
[09:01] <jcoxon> completely seperate
[09:01] <jcoxon> rtty
[09:01] <jcoxon> with 10mW over UK up to 100mW out to sea
[09:02] <number10> I think H2 about 1/2 the price 7.2cm is about £70
[09:02] <jcoxon> the hire of the tanks adds to teh price iirc
[09:03] <WillDuckworth> i like the sound of the power increase out to sea
[09:03] <number10> when daveake comes back he knows the exact cost _ I thought that was total price
[09:04] <jcoxon> we could cycle up the power levels each string
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[09:06] <jcoxon> then a cheapie handheld and arduino setup to aprs via anything in the area such as ISS and APRS network (not in UK)
[09:07] <gonzo-mob> tink i also read that h2 hire often does.not inclide a reg
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[09:20] <fsphil> I'll see if I can get the baofeng under computer control
[09:20] <fsphil> I've got the serial cable
[09:21] <fsphil> hopefully it allows frequency changes
[09:21] <jcoxon> do you have one already?
[09:21] <fsphil> yea
[09:21] <jcoxon> i've just ordered 2
[09:21] <fsphil> which model?
[09:22] <jcoxon> UV-3R+
[09:22] <fsphil> ahm mine's an older one
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[09:23] <jcoxon> i doubt there is much difference
[09:23] <jcoxon> there is a risk that it'll take a while to arrive
[09:23] <jcoxon> it was 50 for 2 new radios
[09:23] <jcoxon> thought that was a good deal
[09:23] <jcoxon> even for use for local comms
[09:24] <fsphil> yea. they work pretty good too
[09:24] <fsphil> interface is a bit meh
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[09:25] <fsphil> they'll also transmit anywhere, so you gotta keep an eye on what frequency you're on :)
[09:26] <jcoxon> in what way?
[09:28] <fsphil> it'll allow you to transmit on any frequency it can receive
[09:28] <fsphil> so well outside the amateur bands
[09:28] <jcoxon> nice
[09:28] <jcoxon> ;-p
[09:28] <fsphil> I've used them on the pmr frequencies
[09:31] <jcoxon> i'm not sure we need anything else for this payload
[09:31] <gonzo-mob> worth looking ay yhe chsnnelised radios, then you only have tje cjan swiych to wire out
[09:32] <gonzo-mob> this kbd seems to type in polish
[09:33] <fsphil> hopefully we can set the frequency though rs232
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[09:35] <fsphil> it may be that only the memory can be set through that
[09:39] <jcoxon> quick google suggests its just for programming memory
[09:40] <jcoxon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_n4WiPr46M
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[09:41] <gonzo-mob> then chan delect knob may be your freind
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[09:43] <jcoxon> oops
[09:43] <NigelMoby> James...
[09:44] <NigelMoby> I can send u my handheld if ures don't arrive, its the uvx4
[09:45] <jcoxon> oh they'll come
[09:45] <jcoxon> but thanks
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[09:50] <jcoxon> i guess the challenge would be controlling the rotatoing dial at hte top
[09:50] <jcoxon> buttons are easy
[09:52] <gonzo-mob> depenfs ehat typr of swiych it is
[09:54] <jcoxon> looking at a tear apart video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wadgi-6R9n8&feature=related it looks like there is quite a lot of metal in there
[09:54] <jcoxon> would that be key for grounding
[09:54] <jcoxon> or is it really necessary?
[09:55] <fsphil> I would say necessary
[09:55] <fsphil> at this price it wouldn't be there unless they had to
[09:56] <gonzo-mob> ususlly crap ali alloy
[09:57] <gonzo-mob> so pron light ish
[09:57] <jcoxon> true
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[10:01] <jcoxon> apparently teh UV-3R+ is 20g heavier then the original
[10:13] <fsphil> probably more shielding
[10:13] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:13] <fsphil> I'll stick mine on the scales when I get home
[10:13] <jcoxon> fsphil, i've emailed steve as wel
[10:14] <jcoxon> fsphil, do you want to see if you can get yours doing packet?
[10:15] <fsphil> will do
[10:15] <fsphil> that bit should be easy enough
[10:16] <jcoxon> shall i sort out a 434mhz tracker
[10:16] <fsphil> I've an arduino board somewhere, can use that to test it with
[10:16] <jcoxon> great
[10:17] <fsphil> was gonna say I've no stations to test it nearby, but I can try the ISS
[10:18] <jcoxon> cool
[10:18] <jcoxon> i'm going to start a wiki page of literally just jobs
[10:19] <jonsowman> a todo list like Wunderlist might be better
[10:19] <fsphil> it's busy downloading dependencies for dl-fldigi atm
[10:20] <fsphil> installing debs is really slow
[10:20] <fsphil> not sure if that's the sd card or just a weak processor
[10:20] <fsphil> er, wrong channel
[10:20] <fsphil> (installing dl-fldigi on a raspberry pi for context ;)
[10:20] <jonsowman> it's also really slow on the sheevaplug
[10:20] <jonsowman> also sd card and a 1.2GHz something or other
[10:21] <jonsowman> i had to cross-compile a kernel for it, it got to that stage of slowness
[10:21] <fsphil> eek
[10:21] <jcoxon> shall we call this UKHAS 2
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[10:22] <jonsowman> that might remind people of UKHAS 1...
[10:22] <number10> does the Wiki have the latest exe version of fl-digi? http://www.ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi 3.20.29?
[10:22] <jonsowman> number10: there's an alpha version, 3.21.something
[10:22] Action: fsphil doesn't remember UKHAS 1
[10:23] <fsphil> before my #highaltitude time :)
[10:23] <number10> cheers jonsowman
[10:23] <jonsowman> number10: https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi/downloads
[10:23] <jonsowman> fsphil: mine too, but i have heard stories
[10:23] <number10> ta
[10:23] <jonsowman> bad stories
[10:24] <jonsowman> number10: if you want the OSX version that's on jcoxon's github page
[10:24] <number10> OK thanks - how did the exams go btw
[10:24] <jonsowman> not too bad i don't think :) hard to tell really
[10:24] <jonsowman> just glad they're over!
[10:25] <fsphil> ^ understatement
[10:25] <jonsowman> yes
[10:25] <number10> I bet, chance of a 1st?
[10:25] <jcoxon> okay not ukhas 1
[10:25] <jonsowman> number10: i have my doubts
[10:25] Action: jcoxon will get browsing
[10:25] <jonsowman> aiming for a 2.I
[10:25] <jonsowman> jcoxon: lol
[10:28] <jcoxon> how about Eurus
[10:28] <jcoxon> (greek god of the east wind)
[10:28] <jcoxon> considering thats what we are doing
[10:29] <jonsowman> sounds good to me
[10:29] <fsphil> yea, sounds good
[10:29] <gonzo-mob> no more pickled omions for him then
[10:29] <fsphil> boom
[10:29] <jcoxon> i'll put it as a ukhas launch
[10:29] <gonzo-mob> a
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[10:35] <daveake> I should name my payloads SHONEY ... " Though the Shoney are now thought to be sea faeries living off the coast of Scotland and Northern Ireland, they were once personified as a single God of the North Sea"
[10:37] <jcoxon> haha
[10:41] <eroomde> call it Leslie 1
[10:41] <eroomde> no one names their balloons after normal people
[10:42] <jcoxon> thanks ed
[10:42] <jonsowman> haha
[10:43] <gonzo-mob> bonzo came from lostenong to bonzo dog dodah whilst coding
[10:51] <kokey> call it laika
[10:52] <kokey> let it transmit communist propaganda while you are at it
[10:53] <kokey> in morse
[10:53] <kokey> russian morse that is
[10:56] <Darkside> i need to name the cutdown payload 'petunia'
[10:57] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:eurus
[10:57] <fsphil> also a good name as it's eur(ope) to us
[10:58] <fsphil> and/or canada :)
[10:58] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[10:58] <jcoxon> didn't even see that
[11:00] <daveake> petunia? As in a bowl of? That didn't end well ...
[11:02] <fsphil> it had a whale of a time
[11:02] <jonsowman> lol
[11:02] <jonsowman> "oh no, not again"
[11:12] <Darkside> irc
[11:12] <Darkside> whoops
[11:22] <shenki> Darkside: IT'S ALREADY ON
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[11:42] <eroomde> russian morse
[11:43] <kokey> I had to look that up
[11:43] <eroomde> comrade, der has been murder in oxfordski
[11:43] <eroomde> take comrade lewisov with you
[11:43] <eroomde> on that point, new series of lewis starts tonight
[11:43] <kokey> animal rights people, over laika?
[11:44] <eroomde> about which my housemate has thought enough of to organize a lewis party
[11:44] <eroomde> consisting of lewis-drinks, a lewis-bbq, and absolute-fucking-silence-during-the-program-lewis-watching
[11:44] <kokey> is it any good? or is it just interesting because of the oxfordness?
[11:45] <eroomde> i am blah about it
[11:46] <eroomde> housemate obsessed, and was before oxford
[11:46] <eroomde> they did a filming wrap party in our local pub (about 20 meters from our house) and ana (housemate) saw the lurch character and let out an extraordinary scream and fell off her bike
[11:46] <oh7lzb> Judging by the fine british TV our variant of BBC imports from the real one, there are a few really dangerous towns in the UK
[11:46] <eroomde> not her best moment
[11:46] <oh7lzb> better not move to Oxford, ever
[11:47] <eroomde> or midsommer
[11:47] <fsphil> yes. never go to midsommer
[11:47] <oh7lzb> exactly
[11:47] <LazyLeopard> ...or Cardiff?
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[11:48] <eroomde> ?
[11:48] <eroomde> what's wrong with cardiff?
[11:49] <kokey> eroomde: at least not as bad as wearing the grim reaper fancy dress when walking past the hospice
[11:49] <kokey> cardiff is nice, and I did enjoy when dr who and torchwood was featuring it a lot
[11:49] <fsphil> I didn't see a single tardis while in cardiff
[11:49] <fsphil> disappointed :)
[11:50] <kokey> but I think it helped that I was visiting cardiff often at that stage
[11:50] <eroomde> i have never been to cardiff
[11:50] <eroomde> i don't think
[11:50] <fsphil> nice city, from what I seen of it
[11:51] <fsphil> I'll need to do the proper touristy thing some day
[11:51] <LazyLeopard> It does seem to get violent visitations by aliens almost as often as the Thames by the Houses of Parliament... ;)
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[11:52] <eroomde> preferabble to living in some places
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[11:52] <eroomde> where you get violent visitations by locals most nights
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[11:58] <LazyLeopard> ;)
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[14:47] <Bob_G8NSV> hi all
[14:48] <fsphil> afternoon Bob_G8NSV !
[14:48] <Bob_G8NSV> having a right nightmare at the mo!
[14:48] <Bob_G8NSV> trying to sort out a 3.3 v boost reg for my payload
[14:48] <fsphil> uhoh
[14:49] <Bob_G8NSV> cant find any in the uk
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[14:49] <fsphil> the sparkfun boost reg should be available from a uk distributer
[14:49] <fsphil> there are a couple
[14:49] <Bob_G8NSV> yes but no stock
[14:49] <fsphil> ah
[14:49] <Bob_G8NSV> 20-30 daydelivery
[14:50] <Bob_G8NSV> only one who has stock has the old 100ma version not enough power
[14:50] <Bob_G8NSV> farnell no longer stock the uprated chip or I would just change it
[14:50] <fsphil> http://proto-pic.co.uk/lipower-boost-converter/
[14:50] <fsphil> that the one?
[14:51] <fsphil> oh wait that's for lipo
[14:51] <Bob_G8NSV> no its a something 2002
[14:51] <Bob_G8NSV> 200ma 3.3v
[14:51] <fsphil> 3.3V @ 200mA max
[14:52] <Bob_G8NSV> ncp1402 is the one
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[14:53] <Bob_G8NSV> someone has 3 ncp1400 which is only 100ma. Farnell used to sell the NCP1402 chips but dont anymore
[14:53] <Bob_G8NSV> or I could have changed the chip for the bigger one
[14:53] <Bob_G8NSV> looks like I will have to make one up
[14:53] <Bob_G8NSV> which means learning how to use eagle!!!
[14:54] <fsphil> yay, your doomed ;)
[14:54] <fsphil> nah it's not that bad
[14:54] <Bob_G8NSV> correct, great software but like all cad NOT intuitive to use and a very step learning curve
[14:55] <NigeyS> eagle is great fun
[14:55] <Bob_G8NSV> I might manage if I could work out how to create a sot23 5 pin device and get it on a board!!
[14:56] <Bob_G8NSV> farnell do sell the SP6641 which is a better device than the ncp1402 but there is no library for it
[14:57] <Bob_G8NSV> the circuitry is dead simple only a few bits
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[14:57] <r2x0t> there was tutorial on sparkfun website on how to add new device footprint to eagle
[14:58] <Bob_G8NSV> I will try there, i have googled a few but they maybe use an older version, when I try to create an sp6641 library it just wont work
[14:59] <Bob_G8NSV> I am trying to learn how to use eagle itself and create new devices :(
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[15:00] <NigeyS> Bob_G8NSV, thats a bit of a learning curve :/
[15:00] <Bob_G8NSV> like so many cad type packages a lot of the tutorials assume you have a basic understanding, no use for a total newbie
[15:01] <Bob_G8NSV> I have googled everywhere to see if someone has created an sp6641 library but no use
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[15:10] <nigelvh> Morning all
[15:10] <fsphil> afternoon nigelvh :)
[15:11] <nigelvh> How's life over there?
[15:11] <fsphil> busy in this corner at least
[15:11] <fsphil> been a long day :)
[15:11] <nigelvh> Happens occasionally I suppose.
[15:11] <fsphil> ah well, middle of the week
[15:12] <nigelvh> Indeed.
[15:12] <nigelvh> Looking forward to the launch this weekend though.
[15:12] <nigelvh> Looks like it's going to be going a good ways downwind.
[15:12] <fsphil> how goes the preparation?
[15:13] <nigelvh> The students (like usual) are nowhere near ready, but the telemetry/video systems are pretty much done.
[15:14] <fsphil> normal enough
[15:14] <fsphil> is the video being recorded?
[15:14] <nigelvh> On the ground. We transmit it live.
[15:15] <nigelvh> The whole bit about ham radio in the air gives us some flexibility to use a few watts and ATV frequencies.
[15:18] <gonzo-mob> oh, not to be an RA in the uk!
[15:19] Action: fsphil dreams
[15:20] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's just the video system, then we've got APRS on a 330mW transmitter on 144.39, and about 250mW on 900MHz with voice telemetry.
[15:20] <nigelvh> Not a small amount of stuff.
[15:24] <nigelvh> Plus six student projects
[15:25] <eroomde> daveake: i got the following text just now from a friend
[15:26] <eroomde> An idea for a desesrtery: statutory crepe
[15:26] <nigelvh> XD
[15:26] <eroomde> i am drawing a blank for crime-themed pudding places
[15:26] <eroomde> help me out hivemind
[15:26] <nigelvh> pudding you away
[15:27] <eroomde> eclairation of war (meh)
[15:27] <eroomde> ooh that's not bad
[15:27] <nigelvh> donut shoot!
[15:28] <nigelvh> (I'm not as fond of that one)
[15:28] <eroomde> both much better than mine tho!
[15:29] <fsphil> insepctor moose
[15:29] <nigelvh> lock 'em up cream puffs
[15:29] <nigelvh> If you like that one's got some innuendo too.
[15:29] <fsphil> he got the electric eclare
[15:29] <eroomde> lol
[15:30] <nigelvh> Grand theft gluttony
[15:31] <eroomde> first degree mudcake
[15:31] <eroomde> hmm
[15:31] <nigelvh> nom-icide
[15:31] <eroomde> not firing on many cylinders atm
[15:31] <eroomde> haha!
[15:31] <eroomde> yes!
[15:31] <eroomde> nom-icide
[15:31] <costyn_> heh just got an email from RS saying i can finally place the order for my Raspberry Pi
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[15:31] <nigelvh> I'm actually kinda proud of that one.
[15:31] <eroomde> that's a winner
[15:31] <costyn_> website is slow tho :)
[15:32] Action: fsphil just got dl-fldigi compiled for the pi
[15:32] <UpuMobile> how long ?
[15:32] <nigelvh> fancy pants fsphil
[15:32] <fsphil> about an hour
[15:32] <fsphil> i've not run it yet :)
[15:33] <costyn_> fsphil: very cool :)
[15:33] <eroomde> yes very
[15:33] <fsphil> it might be to slow to actually decode anything
[15:33] <fsphil> +o
[15:34] <eroomde> maybe a cli version exists?
[15:34] <fsphil> the proof is in the pudding
[15:34] <nigelvh> eroomde: so when are you gonna start a desertery then?
[15:35] <nigelvh> Also, I will accept food as royalty payments.
[15:35] <daveake> I see I missed a punfest
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[15:36] <nigelvh> Yep
[15:37] <daveake> I was a trifle busy
[15:37] <nigelvh> Happens occasionally.
[15:37] <fsphil> it's like you deserted us
[15:37] <nigelvh> It's like you don't eclair anymore.
[15:38] <fsphil> you're not a part of the cream anymore
[15:38] <nigelvh> donut give me any excuses about it.
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[15:41] <fsphil> nope, I'm out :)
[15:42] <nigelvh> and don't try to butter us up with some raspberry pie.
[15:43] <nigelvh> (now I'm out)
[15:44] <fsphil> Sundae I'll think of more
[15:44] <nigelvh> Nice job
[15:45] <fsphil> Icing to have reached my limit
[15:45] <daveake> That's parfait for the course
[15:49] <nigelvh> Now we're really frittering our time away.
[15:49] <gonzo_> that just taked the biscuit
[15:49] <nigelvh> I hope our luck doesn't turnover on us.
[15:50] <gonzo_> you'll be banned and told to f'off. A sort of banoffee
[15:50] <fsphil> lol
[15:52] <daveake> Don't worry, after a while the puns will reduce to a treacle
[15:52] <gonzo_> it will still be going by sundae
[15:52] <daveake> We've had that one :)
[15:53] <gonzo_> Damn, I wanted to have my cake and eat it
[15:53] <daveake> dough!
[15:53] <nigelvh> XD
[15:53] <gonzo_> turning into quite a bun fight
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[15:53] <gonzo_> Sto now before ice-cream
[15:54] <nigelvh> Amongst a bunch of pastry white nerds.
[15:54] <gonzo_> <pun/>
[15:57] <nigelvh> Damn. nomicide.com is already taken
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[15:58] <nigelvh> Though, apparently the guy wants to sell it.
[15:59] <nigelvh> Not that I'm willing to pay more than the registrar costs.
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[16:05] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "[UKHAS] Thank you for White Star"
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[17:50] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] Possible Launch - Friday 18th May Chalgrove"
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[19:21] <fsphil> so dl-fldigi runs on the rpi, but not fast enough for realtime decoding
[19:22] <daveake> ah, shame
[19:23] <fsphil> yea. I'm not sure what's slowing it down
[19:23] <fsphil> a 700mhz cpu should be fine
[19:23] <daveake> I just got an expansion/prototype board so I can stick an NTX2 and GPS on mine
[19:23] <fsphil> ah, nice. yea it'll do tx'ing just fine
[19:23] <daveake> Once that's working it's jpegs :)
[19:24] <fsphil> I'm sure a cut-down dl-fldigi would work
[19:24] <daveake> It would be great to be able to package one up with battery as a portable decoder
[19:24] <fsphil> yea that's what I was thinking
[19:25] <fsphil> I think X is slowing it down
[19:25] <fsphil> or at least the rendering of the UI
[19:25] <daveake> Sounds likely
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> turn off waterfall, turn on fft
[19:26] <fsphil> fft?
[19:28] <fsphil> I've got the waterfall off already
[19:34] <fsphil> it's about three times too slow
[19:35] <fsphil> playing back a recording, it's decoding that but slowly
[19:39] <Laurenceb_> there might _just_ be timing issues
[19:39] <Laurenceb_> hard to see how
[19:39] <Laurenceb_> but wav playback uses a really basic sleep loop
[19:39] <fsphil> I'll plug in a sound dongle
[19:39] <Laurenceb_> i had issues when i tried to use it with a named pipe, its ran slower than real time
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> and the pipe overflowed
[19:40] <fsphil> WF/FFT/SIG mode makes no difference to speed
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> odd
[19:40] <fsphil> I'll try real-time
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> real time sound?
[19:40] <fsphil> yea,, got a usb audio dongle
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> cool
[19:40] <fsphil> if the cable reaches
[19:41] <fsphil> ...
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> hmm... i wonder if its doing fft in backgound
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> with badly compiled soft float
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> that would explain it
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> i dont think there is a really good soft float lib for armv5 tho :S
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[19:42] <Laurenceb_> i can do multiply accumulate in <<100clk on my stm32, but thats armv6
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> what toolchain are you using?
[19:44] <fsphil> not sure, this is the default debian image
[19:44] <fsphil> what ever that is :)
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> ive heard of >2k clk for 32bit floating point multiply on poorly put together armv5 linux
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> you are compiling with gcc on the pi?
[19:45] <fsphil> yea
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> oh dear
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> i bet something really bad is happening
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> like the soft float is being passed via the kernel or something
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> using 6% cpu for decode on my old 2GHz AMD box
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> with fft and waterfall etc on
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> doesnt the arm11 soc have hard float?
[19:47] <fsphil> I'm not sure even the new ones have
[19:49] <fsphil> real-time not working
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> :S
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> does it detect the sound hardware?
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> /join #raspberrypi
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[19:53] <Laurenceb_> ask there
[19:58] <fsphil> yea the sound hardware works fine
[19:59] <fsphil> it decodes bits of the tex
[19:59] <fsphil> text
[19:59] <fsphil> not all of it
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> you fixed it?
[19:59] <fsphil> nope, still not decoding properly :)
[20:00] <fsphil> not fast enough for real time
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> so its not fast enough?
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> whats the cpu use?
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> 100%?
[20:00] <fsphil> 60% fldigi, 40% Xorg
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> ah
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> What is moving on the display?
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> hmm Xorg is an issue, but fldigi is using way too much
[20:01] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: just the decoded text
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> What if you hide the window?
[20:02] <fsphil> hmm..
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[20:02] <fsphil> fldigi 98%
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[20:03] <fsphil> restored, text is still garbled
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander_> evening
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[20:04] <fsphil> I wonder if there are compiler flags I'm missing
[20:04] <fsphil> hiya LL
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander_> what are you up to?
[20:04] <fsphil> playing with a pi
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander_> I got a letter from england
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander_> containing the Ubuntu 12.04 CDs :D
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> according to #raspberrypi
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> is what you need
[20:05] <fsphil> ooh
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> it does have an fpu
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort/VfpComparison
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> id guesstimate you should get a 10x speedup
[20:07] <fsphil> sweet
[20:08] <fsphil> I guess I need a libc compiled with that?
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander_> what is FPU btw?
[20:08] <fsphil> floating point unit
[20:09] <fsphil> it does floating point maths really fast, which CPUs are normally very slow at
[20:09] <NigeyS> levitation! :p
[20:09] <fsphil> lol
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander_> ah cause the IBM ThinkPad service manual had a similar abbrevation
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander_> but I doubt they talked about software when they mentioned the risk of electric shock
[20:10] <fsphil> I suspect that's something else
[20:10] <griffonbot> Received email: lewis howell "[UKHAS] Helium"
[20:11] <fsphil> ah well, sorry, unimplemented: -mfloat-abi=hard and VFP
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> I was amused to read a 4 year old (now) IBM service manual for a laptop that contained cautions about heavy rotating machinery
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander_> lol
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander_> the HDD?
[20:13] <Dan-K2VOL> so I don't know if you guys caught on, but we had to fly both hydrogen and helium!
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> No.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> Rotary power converters.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> - it was originally written about
[20:13] <fsphil> missed that Dan-K2VOL
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> A form of short-term UPS and line conditioner
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander_> oh
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander_> what is a rotary power converter?
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander_> Dan-K2VOL, yea zuph did tell me very briefly
[20:14] <Dan-K2VOL> Spaceport indiana had a few half-empty helium tanks, and we couldn't afford to get any new tanks - the local suppliers were all over $500US per cylinder!
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> Motor+generator + optionalflywheel
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander_> ohh
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[20:15] <daveake> Dan-K2VOL Is helium supply really bad now?
[20:15] <Dan-K2VOL> so we went with hydrogen for the latex balloon
[20:15] <Dan-K2VOL> it seems that it's getting that way daveake
[20:15] <fsphil> Helium is just mad now
[20:15] <daveake> wow
[20:15] <daveake> All the cool kids use H2
[20:15] <daveake> :p
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> I recommend lithium.
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> But only for hot balloons.
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> have to go for hydrogen
[20:15] <Dan-K2VOL> I really didn't like having 1 day to create a safe H2 inflation procedure
[20:15] <Dan-K2VOL> and frankly I didn't
[20:16] <Dan-K2VOL> we had the basics - purge the regulator with He first, don't smoke, fill outdoors,
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> Make sure balloon is empty
[20:16] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yes, that too, and just relied on on the 80% humidity that night
[20:16] <Dan-K2VOL> to prevent sparks
[20:17] <daveake> Yeah, not a problem here in our "drought"
[20:17] <Dan-K2VOL> but I would rather have had a bit more clothing coverage on me while holding that full balloon
[20:17] <Dan-K2VOL> in the event of flaming rubber landing on me
[20:17] <daveake> That's the bit to avoid
[20:18] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[20:20] <nigelvh> Just need one of those silver fire suits
[20:20] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[20:20] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Helium"
[20:21] <nigelvh> We're launching this weekend. But we're using He. University always has some He laying around.
[20:21] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander_> or use the four point plan
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander_> 1) go to sun 2) get helium 3) bring helium to earth 4) Win!
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[20:23] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[20:23] <fsphil> the sun is constantly throwing the stuff into space
[20:23] <fsphil> no need to go :p
[20:24] <Dan-K2VOL> oh we could just send a balloon to space and collect it! :-P
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
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[20:25] <nigelvh> Or the moon
[20:25] <nigelvh> Moon's got lots of He (isotopes)
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:26] <nigelvh> It would be amazing to go to the moon
[20:27] <nigelvh> Someday I hope commercial spacetravel is within grasp.
[20:29] <nigelvh> (Within my lifetime)
[20:30] <nigelvh> Which really isn't unreasonable, they've got upwards of 50-60 years.
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> SpaceX is making interesting noises indeed.
[20:30] <fsphil> "grrrrrr"
[20:30] Action: SpeedEvil crosses fingers for launch.
[20:30] <nigelvh> Well tell them to make noises faster
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[20:30] <fsphil> "gr"
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> nigelvh: you saw that hopper thing?
[20:31] <nigelvh> The hopper thing?
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php - cool video on what the space hopper at http://img.ly/i5JQ - is for
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> Basically foldable landing gear that goes on the bottom of a falcon 9 first stage to enable it to land
[20:35] <nigelvh> I have not seen that, but that looks fancy.
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> Even if they can get the stages to do 10 flights - that's still of the order of $200/kg to orbit.
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> Which is a _hell_ of a lot better.
[20:41] <stilldavid> is this old news here? http://theadventureblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/video-gopro-goes-to-alaska.html
[20:43] <fsphil> slow ascent, nice
[20:44] <fsphil> love that final shot
[20:45] <stilldavid> it's beautiful
[20:45] <stilldavid> I wonder how many GoPros they had total... they're everywhere. I want them as a sponsor :P
[20:45] <fsphil> I've had a gopro sitting here waiting to launch for about 6 months now
[20:45] <jonsowman> i've been invited to go do that next year in Alaska
[20:45] <jonsowman> very tempted
[20:45] <fsphil> do it!
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> nice jonsowman
[20:46] <fsphil> and smuggle me there somehow :)
[20:46] <jonsowman> haha
[20:46] <stilldavid> oh oh, bring me too!
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander_> hello stilldavid !
[20:48] <stilldavid> hey Lunar_Lander_ !
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> how are you?
[20:48] <stilldavid> busy as always :)
[20:48] <stilldavid> trying to figure out a way to get to the great plains super launch
[20:48] <stilldavid> Dan-K2VOL: you guys going to that?
[20:48] <fsphil> yea that sounds like fun
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, I usually can't as it's so far
[20:49] <stilldavid> unfortunately I'm already going to http://eyeofestival.com/
[20:49] <stilldavid> which ends the Friday of GPSL
[20:49] <fsphil> silly linear time
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> ah yes
[20:49] <fsphil> you should both fly over to this years ukhas
[20:50] <stilldavid> when is it?
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> I am going to try fsphil!
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> seriously
[20:50] <fsphil> no date set yet
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> if I have a job at that point :-P
[20:50] <stilldavid> well, set one with some time to buy tickets :) I'd love to go
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[21:13] <fsphil> rebuilding dl-fldigi with some arm specific flags set. trying random stuff I found on google :)
[21:13] <nigelvh> WOOT
[21:14] <fsphil> need more pi to make compile faster
[21:14] <nigelvh> I keep thinking something like a Raspberry Pi would be great as a set it up and leave it digipeater/igate for packet.
[21:14] <fsphil> yea I've got aprx installed, gonna try that later
[21:15] <nigelvh> Awesome.
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[21:16] <nigelvh> Combine with one of those tv tuners they figured out could be used for SDR, and it's a pretty complete setup.
[21:18] <fsphil> hopefully if the support for the FPU is sorted it it should be fast enough for sdr
[21:19] <fsphil> waiting on this compiling reminds me of waiting for tapes to load
[21:20] <fsphil> so they're definitely re-creating the old BBC Micro experience :)
[21:23] <nigelvh> I remember when I was younger working on some custom video system that took video in from a capture card, you could do a bit of editing if you liked, then would burn it to a dvd. But it was freaking slow. Capture happened in realtime so that was slow, then editing anything was painfully slow, and the worst is when you finished and wanted to put it on a dvd, it took about 6 hours for it to compile it all.
[21:23] <nigelvh> Meanwhile I had to sit there at watch it...
[21:24] <fsphil> much patience required
[21:24] <fsphil> the worst thing about loading things from tape, is when it fails near the end
[21:24] <nigelvh> Yeah. I used that time to teach myself HTML on another computer.
[21:31] <fsphil> slightly faster with these flags, decoding more of the text
[21:31] <fsphil> but still not fully
[21:33] <nigelvh> Damn
[21:34] <nigelvh> But, progress is progress.
[21:34] <jonsowman> good work fsphil
[21:36] <fsphil> yea, and I'm just trying flags at random. I really don't understand what most of these do
[21:36] <nigelvh> teh magikz!
[21:36] <nigelvh> or should I say --teh-magikz=1
[21:37] <nigelvh> Or perhaps what you need is --ludicrous-speed=go
[21:38] <fsphil> my pi's gone to plaid
[21:38] <nigelvh> So what if it's in plaid as long as it decodes...
[21:39] <fsphil> going from -O2 to -O3
[21:39] <nigelvh> BUM BUM BUUUUUUM!!!!
[21:39] <kristianpaul> ahhhhh
[21:39] <nigelvh> *Three years later*
[21:41] <nigelvh> also, jonsowman, is it you with the aprs->spacenear.us connector thingy?
[21:41] <jonsowman> nope
[21:41] <jonsowman> jcoxon i think
[21:41] <nigelvh> damn
[21:41] <nigelvh> I knew it was one of those j names
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: did you get hard float working?
[21:41] <fsphil> Laurenceb_: nope, not supported on this image
[21:42] <fsphil> using soft float
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> ah
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> i think youll need it
[21:42] <fsphil> yea definitely
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[21:42] <fsphil> there seems to be some interest in making a debian image with hardfp support
[21:43] <nigelvh> WOOT
[21:43] <nigelvh> That would have my vote.
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[21:44] <fsphil> that and a better video driver :)
[21:45] <fsphil> I'd love to have this sort of access to my phone
[21:45] <fsphil> wish nokia hasn't screwed things up
[21:45] <fsphil> hadn't*
[21:47] <Randomskk> yay SDRs
[21:47] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/wombat-sdr.png
[21:47] <fsphil> there doesn't seem to be sound support through the hdmi cable
[21:47] <fsphil> or at least the drivers are not provided
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[21:48] <fsphil> OsmoSDR?
[21:48] <Randomskk> rtl-sdr
[21:48] <Randomskk> really
[21:49] <fsphil> cool
[21:49] <fsphil> they seem to work really well
[21:49] <Randomskk> working pretty great though
[21:49] <Randomskk> yea
[21:49] <fsphil> well, considering
[21:49] <Randomskk> yes
[21:49] <Randomskk> for £13
[21:49] <Randomskk> and a non resonant antenna on the radio and no antenna on wombat
[21:50] <Randomskk> dunno what sensitivity is really like
[21:50] <fsphil> hopefully have one to play with at the weekend
[21:50] <Randomskk> they seem very neat
[21:50] <Randomskk> just set this up
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> getting audio out?
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> does it have a JACK server or similar?
[21:51] <jonsowman> can get audio to fldigi via pavucontrol Laurenceb_
[21:52] <jonsowman> Laurenceb_: http://hexoc.com/u/rtl-rtty.png
[21:52] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: getting audio to my speakers
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> pavucontrol?
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> what does that stand for?
[21:54] <Randomskk> pulse audio volume control
[21:54] <jonsowman> it's the pulse audio volume control app thing
[21:54] <jonsowman> you can tell fldigi to get sound from monitoring system sound output
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> ah pulse audio
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> i was just thinking jack as i used it for my cc1020
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> that desktop looks pretty epic
[21:55] <jonsowman> there's also this
[21:55] <jonsowman> http://www.oz9aec.net/index.php/gnu-radio/gqrx-sdr
[21:55] <jonsowman> which apparently he's working on to work with the RTL dongles
[21:55] <jonsowman> looks really neat
[21:56] Action: Laurenceb_ drools
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> now if you could do QAM with wombat you might be able to use the hardware decoding
[21:57] <Randomskk> its radio can't sadly
[21:57] <Randomskk> qam is hard on radios
[21:57] <Randomskk> :Z
[21:57] <Randomskk> :| *
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> i think its more complex than that too
[22:00] <Randomskk> well yes
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> i think you might need a data free carrier for it to pll on to
[22:00] <Randomskk> it's not a QAM decoder
[22:00] <Randomskk> it's a DVB-T decoder
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> well i only had a quick read
[22:00] <Randomskk> which involves thousands of OFDM tones
[22:00] <Randomskk> hundreds of which are pilot tones
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> but it seemed you could "hack" it to do some more basic stuff
[22:00] <Randomskk> of which many are static and many others swap with data tones following a PRNG sequence
[22:00] <Randomskk> dvb-t: complicated
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:00] <Randomskk> hmm well maybe
[22:00] <Randomskk> tbh the IQ data seems fast enough to be useful for most telem stuff
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> i didnt realise it had hundereds of pilots
[22:01] <Randomskk> it would be cool to get it doing QAM decoding in hardware though
[22:01] <Randomskk> yea
[22:01] <Randomskk> the alternating pilots means every single carrier is a pilot eventually
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> probably a silly thing to try
[22:01] <Randomskk> so you don't need a phase reference
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> neat
[22:01] <Randomskk> you just wait for that tone to be a pilot
[22:01] <Randomskk> and there's your phase
[22:01] <Randomskk> hence no need for differential encoding
[22:01] <Randomskk> it's handy
[22:01] <jonsowman> very clever design
[22:02] <Randomskk> no doubt
[22:02] <Randomskk> also very complex
[22:02] <Randomskk> :P
[22:02] <jonsowman> yeah
[22:02] <fsphil> what's the rate of each channel?
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> how does it handle AGC?
[22:02] <fsphil> typically?
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> uses the pilots to calibrate?
[22:02] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: I think so
[22:02] <Randomskk> fsphil: off the top of my head it's like some khz?
[22:02] <Randomskk> 4kHz?
[22:03] <Randomskk> as in, 4000 symbols a second
[22:03] <fsphil> still fairly high then
[22:03] <fsphil> by my standards :)
[22:03] <jonsowman> QPSK on each carrier
[22:03] <Randomskk> QAM-64
[22:03] <jonsowman> oh yeah, QPSK for DAB
[22:03] <Randomskk> in QAM-64 that's 6 bits per symbol so 24kbit/s per carrier
[22:03] <Randomskk> it's good stuff
[22:03] <fsphil> that's a serious amount of work going on right there
[22:03] <Randomskk> might be slower than that even though
[22:03] <Randomskk> we're talking something like 1500-2000 carriers
[22:04] <fsphil> no wonder these things where expensive at the beginning
[22:04] <Randomskk> seriously
[22:04] <Randomskk> and that's before you think about the intensely clever ways it manages synchronisation and phasing and error coding and control
[22:04] <Randomskk> you can lose hundreds of carriers before it's an issue
[22:04] <Randomskk> and stuff like multipath...
[22:04] <fsphil> also explains why nobody's done a DVB-T modulator for around the house
[22:05] <Randomskk> in DAB, you get multipath from having multiple transmitters on the same frequency
[22:05] <Randomskk> so they made the multipath time long enough to accomodate transmitters 70km apart...
[22:05] <Randomskk> -> single frequency operation all over the UK
[22:05] <fsphil> yea, they've done that in france with some of the DVB-T channels
[22:06] <Randomskk> honestly the only concerns I have with all this is it's so intensely complicated
[22:06] <Randomskk> we'd never stand a chance of decoding it unless you knew how
[22:06] <Randomskk> whereas like, AM/FM radio transmission, you can hack together a receiver in no time
[22:06] <Randomskk> out of a couple discrete parts
[22:06] <Randomskk> heck, a rusty razor and some wires is enough for AM
[22:07] <Randomskk> even analogue TV you could manage a black and white image fairly reasonably
[22:07] <Randomskk> DAB and DVB, even if you managed all the radio stuff, then have MPEG and the rest of it
[22:07] <Randomskk> oh well. they are neat.
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[22:08] <fsphil> all the amateur digital stuff is using DVB-S, which is much simpler
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander_> so it is like satellite TV?
[22:11] <fsphil> exactly the same
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[22:11] <fsphil> just a lower frequency
[22:11] <fsphil> they use satellite receivers to decode it
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander_> but you can't like uplink to ASTRA right?
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:11] <r2x0t> you can even use sat rx with just preamp to receive
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> how do the stations do it?
[22:12] <r2x0t> uplink to sats is on 14GHz in most cases
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> can they send to ASTRA directly or do they have to get the stuff to Luxemburg somehow first to have it uplinked there
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:12] <fsphil> the amateur DVB-S isn't relayed via satellite Lunar_Lander
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> I mean, there must be some way to ensure that the uplink gets to the correct transponder and stuff
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> and in real TV?
[22:12] <r2x0t> HAMs are too poor to pay for satellite BW
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> I assume the uplink is encoded?
[22:13] <fsphil> yea
[22:13] <r2x0t> so it's just terrestrial stuff
[22:13] <r2x0t> on 1.2 or 2.4 GHz
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander_> so that no one can like point his dish on ASTRA and start his own european TV station
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:13] <fsphil> nope :)
[22:13] <r2x0t> well, you can but.... :)
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander_> :D
[22:13] <fsphil> the older satellites just blindly repeated the signal
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander_> I read that the ASTRA 2D is like a heavy load for the BBC
[22:14] <fsphil> the newer ones are a bit smarter
[22:14] <r2x0t> like 99% of sats are just bent pipes
[22:14] <r2x0t> even new astras
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander_> if it would be possible they would have liked the spotbeam not to touch continental europe
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander_> but that is technically impossible
[22:14] <r2x0t> they can switch transponder mapping and frequencies
[22:14] <fsphil> ah - I'd have thought they'd at least have basic authentication
[22:14] <r2x0t> but it's still simple
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander_> so in holland or so you can watch BBC on ASTRA 2D
[22:14] <r2x0t> for example, on Hotbird at 13E
[22:14] <r2x0t> there is some interfering Polish radio mixed to signal
[22:14] <fsphil> holland have always got BBC
[22:15] <r2x0t> you can hear it on WFM at 10GHz
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:15] <fsphil> neat
[22:15] <r2x0t> it relays everything
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander_> I think there was a guy in the US who disrupted the satellite service with just a black card with text
[22:15] <r2x0t> then there are sats like 10E used mostly for feeds and news gathering, with signals going on /off a lot
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander_> like "TV makes you stupid" and stuff
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander_> IIRC he got several years for that
[22:16] <r2x0t> but nowadays, they have technology to find you
[22:16] <r2x0t> they can pinpoint any interference with ~500m precision
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander_> and then it's the guy with the biggest dish
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> heh i hadnt thought of that one
[22:17] <r2x0t> so unless you are crazy and pirating mobile or something, it's not very good idea to do
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> most sats are just "dumb" repeaters
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> so you could spoof them
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> epic trolling awaits
[22:17] <r2x0t> it happens all the time, mostly by news vans pointing their antennas
[22:17] <r2x0t> they cause interference to nearby sat
[22:17] <fsphil> "Why are there ponys on sky news?" :)
[22:18] <r2x0t> until someone really angry calls them :)
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander_> there is a radio station here called NDR2
[22:18] <fsphil> I know that one
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander_> they had a "breakfast tour" where they had a truck to broadcast their morningshow in different cities over two weeks and they had a satellite van with them
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> http://www.ndr.de/ndr2/team/petersen129.html that is one of the morning hosts
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> I think her=good
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:19] <r2x0t> these signals are called feeds
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:19] <r2x0t> there are webs with realtime monitoring of them
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> to broadcast them back to Hamburg and into the radio in this case?
[22:19] <r2x0t> yes
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> I think south park is sent to comedy central that way
[22:20] <r2x0t> sometimes I wonder if using mobile internet wouldn't be cheaper
[22:20] <fsphil> I used to catch feeds sometimes
[22:20] <r2x0t> but then this is really dedicated link
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander_> every wednesday they send the new episode to Comedy Central via satellite
[22:20] <r2x0t> so much more reliable
[22:20] <fsphil> very odd watching the news presenter when they're not on air
[22:20] <r2x0t> yeah
[22:20] <r2x0t> but cool
[22:20] <fsphil> indeed
[22:20] <r2x0t> few years back, I recorded fake launch of Ariane rocket
[22:20] <r2x0t> it was meant to be test
[22:20] <r2x0t> not for public
[22:21] <r2x0t> but feed was on
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:21] <r2x0t> this is good web for feeds: http://www.feedhuntplaza.nl/
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[22:21] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander_> hello jcoxon
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander_> fsphil, r2x0t you didn't comment on Ilka
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:23] <fsphil> I often don't
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander_> I commented on that this morning
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander_> they like talked their stuff into the PC and then had the computer run the show automatically for the first hour while the studio was unmanned according to the webcam
[22:25] <fsphil> wonder if I can setup a cross compiler on my quad core intel for arm6
[22:25] <fsphil> be nice to use distcc and a fast machine
[22:26] <r2x0t> install the arm toolchain
[22:26] <r2x0t> then pass it to makefile as params or change it
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander_> btw
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander_> I checked out the journal of geophysical research some more
[22:29] <jcoxon> evening
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander_> there was a symposium on what could be done with satellites and so on
[22:29] <fsphil> hullo mr.jc
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander_> there was one article "Astronomy on rockets" which had a thing where they used hypodermic needles as light guides to get the light inot the spectrograph
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander_> *into
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander_> also they had schematics of current rockets, like Atlas and Atlas-Able (I mean current as of the early 1960's) and some model called "Atlas-Hustler"
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander_> I'll have to go back and check out what that rocket would have planned to be
[22:35] <jcoxon> fsphil, any more thoughts on what we discussed this morning?
[22:38] <fsphil> I'm making up a little circuit on some breadboard so I can key the radio from the arduino jcoxon
[22:38] <fsphil> I'm not so sure about being able to control this radio though
[22:39] <fsphil> the frequency that is
[22:39] <jcoxon> might have to do some clever wiring
[22:41] <fsphil> it can be powered through the DC socket on the side, not sure if that'll work without a battery installed
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[22:43] <jcoxon> okay
[22:43] <jcoxon> will have a play
[22:44] <fsphil> if we can get it to tune, it's perfect
[22:44] <jcoxon> the worse case would be to wire up all the buttons
[22:46] <fsphil> yep - which is gonna be annoying
[22:47] <jcoxon> can you do pre-sets?
[22:48] <fsphil> yea, it has a 99 channel mode
[22:49] <fsphil> recalls what mode it's in after a power cycle
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[22:50] <jcoxon> thats perfect then
[22:50] <jcoxon> so we could pre-set it
[22:50] <fsphil> yep - it's knowing which channel it's on at any time
[22:56] <jcoxon> steve is onboard
[22:56] <fsphil> how long do we have?
[22:57] <jcoxon> well i'd like to get this done pretty soon to tell the truth
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[22:57] <jcoxon> we have as long as we need :-)
[22:58] <jcoxon> i think the high alt winds will be in this direction for quite a bit
[22:59] <jcoxon> steve says he has some ideas regarding vents and uv protection
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander_> ozone might be a problem
[22:59] <fsphil> vents?
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander_> at least it took out the 1930's rubber balloons quite fast
[22:59] <jcoxon> vent valve
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[23:00] <jcoxon> i'm not sure - will get him to explain
[23:00] <fsphil> interesting
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander_> will you fly plastic or rubber?
[23:02] <jcoxon> howyee
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[23:06] <jcoxon> night all
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[00:00] --- Thu May 17 2012