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[03:02] <markdownunder> anyone awake
[03:02] <Darkside> nope
[03:03] <markdownunder> hey I got CASA permission to launch in WA
[03:03] <markdownunder> i found the right chap to ask :-)
[03:03] <Darkside> nice
[03:03] <markdownunder> same guy arranged HORUS i think
[03:03] <Darkside> maybe
[03:04] <Darkside> now you need to start looking at predictions
[03:04] <Darkside> and work out where your balloons will go
[03:04] <markdownunder> launch site will be near Darkan
[03:04] <markdownunder> as long as it heads east&.
[03:05] <markdownunder> weather patterns are usually moving that way
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[08:05] <Elmar_PD3EM> good morning/afternoon/evening
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[08:20] <nosebleedkt_> good morning in your UTC :P
[08:23] <Elwell> IRC is always morning. Regardless of sun position
[08:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> there's always a morning somewhere ;-)
[08:23] <Elwell> unless it's drink related, then it's always afternoon :-)
[08:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> only after 5 oçlock ;-) http://imgur.com/RDVVq
[08:28] <gonzo___> we should have a special greeting for global time
[08:29] <zyp> good whatever
[08:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> good time
[08:29] <gonzo___> that does sound better than what I was trying to concatenate
[08:30] <gonzo___> g'day works, and would be at home with our .au contingent
[08:31] <gonzo___> and it's a phrase that you can't help saying with a smile
[08:38] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: hiya, saw your message yesterday evening
[08:39] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: progress is kinda stopped at the moment as I'm recovering from a broken leg
[08:47] <x-f> :/
[08:48] <Elmar_PD3EM> costyn_: I heard that... getting better yet?
[08:49] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: well takes 5 to 6 weeks, I'm about 4 weeks now
[08:50] <Elmar_PD3EM> recovered before the summer starts
[08:50] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: summer? that's that time of the year when we see the sun again right? I've forgotten what it looks like
[08:51] <Elmar_PD3EM> costyn_: LOL... I saw some bright light in the sky yesterday and called 112 ;-)
[08:51] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: hehehe
[08:51] <Elmar_PD3EM> costyn_: I need to get some stuff to build the payload and design a PCB
[08:52] <Elmar_PD3EM> costyn_: then test some more and order a balloon
[08:52] <costyn_> designing a PCB eh? that's pretty hardcore :)
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[08:52] Action: costyn_ is going for the ratsnest school of design
[08:52] <Elmar_PD3EM> costyn_: thinking about a empty shield for on top of the Uno
[08:54] <Elmar_PD3EM> like the first web SDR http://www.passion-radio.org/images-blog/websdr-hw3.jpg
[08:54] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: yea thought of that as well, but ended up using a piece of perf-board to solder the electronics on for the ntx2 and other bits
[08:54] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: I'd hate to have to debug that
[08:55] <Elmar_PD3EM> costyn_: that was the first one at TU Twente
[08:56] <costyn_> cool
[08:57] <Elmar_PD3EM> I thinking of using this one http://iprototype.nl/products/arduino/shields/proto-df
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[09:23] <kokey_> space taxi, there must be a joke or two in that at least
[09:24] Nick change: kokey_ -> kokey
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[10:38] <Lunar_Lander_> hello people
[10:39] <Lunar_Lander_> don't feel so well, sore throat and stuff
[10:39] <Lunar_Lander_> got a question to the ThinkPad experts though
[10:39] <Lunar_Lander_> what does the LED with the circled in sawtooth wave mean?
[10:40] <Lunar_Lander_> is that just the "Power" LED?
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[10:41] <Lunar_Lander_> btw fsphil it has a ThinkLight and it works :)
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[10:43] <Lunar_Lander_> also the two red lined buttons are obviously mouse L and R
[10:43] <Lunar_Lander_> what does the blue lined button below do?
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[11:04] <Lunar_Lander_> hm
[11:04] <Lunar_Lander_> seems to have called in on lunch break
[11:10] <fsphil> the light is awsome
[11:11] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[11:12] <Lunar_Lander_> it just doesn't make sounds
[11:12] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: ordering arduino stuff from ebay is usually cheapest
[11:12] <Lunar_Lander_> I found the driver on the lenovo page, will try if that helps
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[11:13] <costyn_> Elmar_PD3EM: http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Arduino-Prototyping-Prototype-Shield-ProtoShield-Mini-Breadboard-/170817961025#ht_999wt_1348
[11:14] <Lunar_Lander_> yea but that is mostly copied I think
[11:14] <Lunar_Lander_> which is OK with OS hardware?
[11:14] <Lunar_Lander_> *scratches head*
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[11:16] <costyn_> Lunar_Lander_: the hardware is open source I think?
[11:16] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah that is what I meant with OS Hardware
[11:16] <Lunar_Lander_> _=
[11:17] <Lunar_Lander_> no
[11:17] <Lunar_Lander_> :) this one
[11:17] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[11:17] <Lunar_Lander_> fsphil, do you know about my other questions also?
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[11:20] <fsphil> sorry LL I'm afk-ish
[11:22] <Lunar_Lander_> oh ok
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[12:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1649434
[13:00] <Randomskk> oh jeez
[13:00] <Lunar_Lander_> the new 808 camera?
[13:00] <Lunar_Lander_> OHHHH
[13:00] <Lunar_Lander_> WTF
[13:01] <fsphil> I'm sure I have a 404 camera somewhere but I can't find it
[13:01] <daveake> Don't think I've ever known anyone take photos of their hand being stitched up :|
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander_> is that a quadcopter?
[13:01] <daveake> Looks worse than one a bel;t sander attacked me once
[13:02] <daveake> 450 - regular copter
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[13:02] <fsphil> eek blood
[13:03] <Lunar_Lander_> :(
[13:03] <Randomskk> he should post the video
[13:04] <Laurenceb> i dont want to know what it sounded like
[13:04] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/xw5Lo.jpg
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander_> maybe like
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander_> *shredÜ
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander_> *
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander_> ?
[13:04] <Randomskk> Darkside: neat
[13:04] <Darkside> still a bit of flux on it :(
[13:04] <Randomskk> now fit a radio onto the same form factor and an AA battery clip onto the back to power it :P
[13:05] <Darkside> yeah... not going to happen with this one
[13:05] <Randomskk> and swap to the SMT gps antenna to drop the height even more
[13:05] <Randomskk> :P
[13:05] <Randomskk> QFN AVR would be better too
[13:05] <Darkside> this is just one iteration of the micronut design
[13:05] <Darkside> as we need more telemetry payloads asap
[13:05] <Darkside> we've been running out of stock..
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander_> do you have to remove the "golden" stains (flux?)
[13:06] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander_: there were a lot more when i first started taking photos..
[13:06] <Darkside> then i saw them and freaked
[13:06] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander_> you use alcohol to clean those off, right?
[13:08] <eroomde_> yes
[13:08] <eroomde_> IPA and lint-free cloth
[13:08] <eroomde_> don't use an ultrasound cleaner though
[13:08] <eroomde_> it can do bad things to electronic components
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander_> xD yea
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander_> we were taught in basic chemistry "you first clean with water, then use alcohol and then hydrochloric acid"
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander_> last day of the lab, my one bowl was dirty from the analysis work and not thinking I poured some 1 M HCl in
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander_> forgetting that NaOH tab that had been in it
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> Boom!
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander_> started to get hot and smoking immediately and I was able to hide it in the fume hood before anyone noticed
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander_> when the reaction stopped however, it was clean
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander_> damn
[13:14] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: http://t.co/297JEnDK MicroNut V2 almost complete... #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/200574598855667713]
[13:15] <Lunar_Lander_> one single man carried the measles from germany to northern bulgaria in 2009
[13:15] <Lunar_Lander_> until today there have been 24000 cases of new infections in that area
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander_> and from there the virus moved to turkey and greece and back to germany and france and the americas
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander_> all the places where measles had been almost eliminated
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[13:18] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: RT @darksidelemm: http://t.co/297JEnDK MicroNut V2 almost complete... #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/200575568943648769]
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[13:31] <Bob_G8NSV> Afternoon all
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[13:33] <navrac> afternoon bob_g8nsv
[13:33] <Bob_G8NSV> horrid weather
[13:34] <navrac> its not been too bad here - I was in the garden playing with the dogs in the sunshine half an hour ago
[13:34] <Bob_G8NSV> had to chase one of mine into the garden a few mins ago its pi**ing down here
[13:35] <gonzo___> I got soaked going 50yds between buildings
[13:35] Nick change: gonzo___ -> gonzo_
[13:35] <cuddykid> Bob_G8NSV: where are you located?
[13:35] <Bob_G8NSV> Christchurch down the rd from gonzo
[13:35] <navrac> I'm in 'sunny' suffolk
[13:35] <cuddykid> ahh I see
[13:35] <Bob_G8NSV> lucky toms ment to be ok as is the weekend
[13:35] <cuddykid> fairly warm but grey clouds with odd bits of rain here (worcs)
[13:36] <Bob_G8NSV> how did the plastic welding experiments go navrac?
[13:36] <navrac> looks like good weather here for the weekend - but still no heptx (or rather EVOH) arrived yet
[13:37] <navrac> well I think I'm going to build a heated rollr so I can knock things out quicker
[13:37] <eroomde_> you might be able to borrow one
[13:37] <Bob_G8NSV> did some experiments with a bin liner offcut, some baking parchment and an iron
[13:37] <navrac> a tetroon isnt a problem - but a sphere will be
[13:37] <navrac> how did it go?
[13:39] <Bob_G8NSV> very well https://picasaweb.google.com/107573045705039625504/PlasticWelding?authkey=Gv1sRgCJuPv_mI49GyEg
[13:39] <navrac> eroomde_ I can't think of anyone that might have one
[13:39] <Bob_G8NSV> a sphere will be no trouble with bin liners
[13:41] <eroomde_> navrac: think harder
[13:41] <navrac> I don't suppose by any chance you have one?
[13:41] <Bob_G8NSV> whats that?
[13:41] <eroomde_> yes
[13:42] <navrac> a heated roller - not the things for your hair
[13:42] <eroomde_> you'll have to talk to Randomskk or jonsowman
[13:42] <eroomde_> they are the current guardians
[13:42] <navrac> if i paypal you the postqage can i borrow it for a bit?
[13:42] <eroomde_> but we got one in 2009 and had to mothball it when we lost the lab our zp making machine was in
[13:42] <navrac> ah I will do
[13:42] <navrac> it would certainly make it easier
[13:43] <Randomskk> postage is likely to be a fair bit if it's what I'm thinking of
[13:43] <navrac> I only just finished the superpressure calculations last night - I think I've got them about right
[13:44] <navrac> I thought it was like a soldering iron handle with a 5cm heated wheel - is this something different?
[13:44] <eroomde_> it's 2 wheels
[13:45] <eroomde_> heated
[13:45] <eroomde_> and it clamps onto a table edge
[13:45] <navrac> http://www.sealers.com.tw/Product-200929181736.html
[13:45] <eroomde_> it probably weighs about 10-15kg
[13:45] <navrac> blimey
[13:45] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3740982370/in/set-72157621628336895 ?
[13:45] <eroomde_> it's fixed
[13:45] <eroomde_> you pass the material through it
[13:45] <eroomde_> lol no
[13:45] <eroomde_> Randomskk:
[13:45] <eroomde_> the continuous seam welder
[13:45] <eroomde_> it's a bought bit of kit
[13:46] <Randomskk> big yellow thing?
[13:46] <eroomde_> it'll be *somewhere* in the lab
[13:46] <Randomskk> think I know what and where but can't find photos
[13:47] <navrac> I suppose for a 1.5m tetroon I could stick a length of nichrome behind some teflon tape and bodge something
[13:47] <eroomde_> that's what we did in the photo Randomskk linked
[13:48] <Bob_G8NSV> lukily for me the iron seems to work
[13:54] <griffonbot> @vk5fsck: RT @darksidelemm: http://t.co/297JEnDK MicroNut V2 almost complete... #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/vk5fsck/status/200584700975259649]
[13:54] <navrac> well i can do it with an iron - but i want to make one bit of material stick out longer and once sealed fold the longer bit over the seam and heat it again
[13:57] <navrac> thats quite a big balloon in those photos - did you evre fly it?
[13:57] <Lunar_Lander_> in a chemistry adventure game I once played there was a big plastic balloon which was a sphere consisting of many small triangles welded together, would that even be possible?
[13:58] <navrac> yes - but it would have to be quite big and a b@gger to seal
[13:58] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[13:58] <Lunar_Lander_> the orange peel design is much better
[14:01] <eroomde_> navrac: that was a diddy one :)
[14:01] <eroomde_> would onl have got about 300g to 30km
[14:01] <navrac> bl**dy hell
[14:02] <kokey> for a moment there I thought you were talking about fuel economy
[14:02] <navrac> my first superpressure is tiny in comparison - designed for 50g to 6km
[14:02] <eroomde_> not mega surprising if you think that the 1.5kg-ish balloons get to about 10m+ dia
[14:02] <eroomde_> that's like a semi detached house you could fit inside
[14:02] <navrac> true
[14:03] <navrac> I've got the superpresure bug now - no ballast dumping or venting required
[14:05] <navrac> a small one first then one that will either go a lot higher or carry a lot more load. trying to decide which
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[14:30] <eroomde_> higher
[14:30] <eroomde_> if you can get the data you need...
[14:31] <navrac> i prefer higher
[14:31] <eroomde_> make the pie
[14:31] <eroomde_> etc
[14:31] <navrac> depends on how much solar/batteries i need to give it a very long life
[14:32] <fsphil> would it be practical to run it of solar alone?
[14:32] <navrac> i can do about 3 or 4 days in 40g - but I would like 10 days power if it does float correctly
[14:32] <navrac> If it stays sunny then yes - the difficulty is restarting the gps with solar only
[14:32] <Laurenceb> remeber to do an extended pressure test
[14:33] <fsphil> true, forgot about the startup current
[14:33] <navrac> and I want to keep txing at night - not often but keeping the gps running as i'll have no way of knowing where it is otherwise
[14:33] <Lunar_Lander_> btw
[14:34] <navrac> more weight would mean i could carry a spot trackr - but would only make 8km or so
[14:34] <Lunar_Lander_> I recognize that in many papers of the 50s to 70s, balloon experiments are called "lightweight (~ 6kg)"
[14:34] <Lunar_Lander_> they must have had a different idea of light in these times
[14:34] <fsphil> spot can be modified
[14:35] <fsphil> newer spots can send custom messages too
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander_> like "Hello Phil"?
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[14:35] <fsphil> if you wanted to :)
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander_> and as I said
[14:35] <fsphil> although it's expensive
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander_> either they had a different idea of "light"
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander_> or in general that term is a bit different in the USA and Japan
[14:36] <navrac> yes - but my target would really be 14+km and at that height I'd need to make a very big balloon to carry spot and extra batteries
[14:36] <fsphil> gravity was different back then Lunar_Lander_
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[14:37] <fsphil> you're going to be limited by the coverage of willing 434mhz receivers
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander_> but still
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander_> the japanese experiment used a metal case
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander_> that must have hurt on impact
[14:37] <navrac> - I dont know I'm reading an article from 1965 which describes a payload of a couple of hundred grams
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[14:37] <navrac> it call that light
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander_> the one I mean is about atmospheric electricity
[14:39] <Lunar_Lander_> navrac, is that in an AMETSOC journal?
[14:39] <navrac> well once it leaves 'monitored' airspace, I'll make it accidently retune onto a repeater input channel sending morse - im sure i'll get to hear about it then!
[14:39] <fsphil> lol
[14:39] <navrac> yep
[14:39] <fsphil> a program that scans for the signal would be nice
[14:40] <fsphil> so it could be left running for when it comes back around
[14:41] <Lunar_Lander_> navrac, I meant the 1965 paper
[14:41] <navrac> yep - lots ogf big coverage gaps in the world - and i cant get everyone scanning across europe in cas it coms around again
[14:41] <navrac> yep thats the one
[14:41] <Lunar_Lander_> can you give me the journal it is in?
[14:42] <navrac> journal of applied meteorology vol4 feb 1965
[14:43] <eroomde_> navrac: re a previous conversation on this channel, have you had a look at WSPR?
[14:43] <eroomde_> it's an hf digital mode designed for very very low powers and low symbol rates (eg 1 baud) but consequency very very long ranges
[14:44] <navrac> interesting - i just looked it up
[14:44] <Bob_G8NSV> anyone found a decent spherical balloon design program?
[14:44] <kokey> hmmm, I was talking to an HF engineer about digital transmission the other day, he had some ideas
[14:44] <fsphil> wspr might fill in your gaps, roughtly anyway -- the coordinate system is vague
[14:45] <kokey> Bob_G8NSV: draw_circle()? ;-)
[14:45] <fsphil> it has the advantage of an already existing network
[14:45] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks navrac
[14:45] <Bob_G8NSV> jt 65 is a good low signal level mode
[14:46] <navrac> http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0450(1965)004%3C0122%3ASBFWR%3E2.0.CO%3B2
[14:46] <fsphil> yea, jt65 at least wouldn't require modification
[14:46] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks
[14:46] <fsphil> but it would need people to listen for it
[14:46] <Lunar_Lander_> ah, the small series on the SP balloon symposium
[14:47] <Bob_G8NSV> tried several balloon design progs but no joy, far to complex outputs hundreds of panels as they are designed for big balloons
[14:47] <navrac> is a link to the article. I guess if I used WSPR I'd have to launch from a country whose amateur laws allow amateur tx from the air and an amateur to be reposnsible
[14:47] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[14:47] <fsphil> you can launch in the uk, just don't transmit until you're past the border
[14:47] <Bob_G8NSV> jt65 needs accurate clocks at both ends but youd have that with GPS
[14:48] <fsphil> we are doing that with swift for APRS
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[14:50] <fsphil> if the swift board was less power hungry it would be ideal actually
[14:51] <NigelMoby> swift is gonna eat batteries for breakfast lol
[14:52] <navrac> I'm going to concentrate on getting the balloon to fly at all as the first step!
[14:53] <navrac> good aftrnoon jcoxon
[14:54] <jcoxon> Hey
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[14:55] <jcoxon> How are things?
[14:56] <navrac> not bad - still waiting for my delivery of material from the states, meanwhile practising sealing
[14:56] <NigelMoby> making ure own balloon?
[14:57] <navrac> yep, easier than sticking lots of qualatex together
[14:59] <jcoxon> I'm just waiting for the weather to improve and I'll launch picoatlas
[15:00] <jcoxon> Navrac, I've been adding to the wiki, feel free to contribute
[15:00] <navrac> forgotten my password!
[15:01] <navrac> anyway - you've already written most of what i would write.
[15:01] <navrac> If this next one works I'll document up the build process etc for it
[15:02] <LazyLeopard> weather improve? hmmm.
[15:03] <kokey> navrac: what material are you going to use?
[15:05] <navrac> EVOH
[15:05] <navrac> silvered
[15:06] <navrac> I ordered clear heptax but they are out of stock
[15:06] <Lunar_Lander_> hello jcoxon
[15:06] <Lunar_Lander_> jcoxon, got a question
[15:06] <Lunar_Lander_> is NaCl solution really helpful for a sore throat or merely placebo like?
[15:07] <navrac> if he tells you its a placebo then it wont work!
[15:07] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[15:09] <Randomskk> placebos still work even if you know they are
[15:09] <Randomskk> :|
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[15:15] <gonzo_> isn't salt a mild antiseptic?
[15:15] <Lunar_Lander_> that is what I would like to ask the doc
[15:15] <Lunar_Lander_> wb jcoxon
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[15:19] Nick change: AndChat| -> jcoxon
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[15:24] <Lunar_Lander_> wb jcoxon
[15:26] <jcoxon> I missed your question
[15:26] <Bob_G8NSV> sorting out the gore patterns for my envelope will be a nightmare!
[15:27] <Bob_G8NSV> might have to mess around with some scale models
[15:28] <Lunar_Lander_> is NaCl solution really helpful for a sore throat or merely placebo like?
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander_: pubmed
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> search
[15:30] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> pubmed is awesome
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[15:33] <jcoxon> In theory it'll act like an antiseptic
[15:33] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[15:33] <jcoxon> Not sure how much it'll help
[15:33] <kokey> I just gargle jack daniels
[15:34] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[15:34] <kokey> when I can't get my hands on benzocaine
[15:34] <gonzo_> good thing with JD, you don't have to spit it out
[15:34] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[15:34] <kokey> gonzo_: indeed
[15:35] <kokey> only need about a quarter shot each time
[15:35] <gonzo_> whay go with part measures
[15:35] <kokey> which is useful since the effect only lasts for half an hour or so
[15:35] <gonzo_> it come's in bottles for a reason
[15:35] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[15:36] <kokey> normally I don't want to put my lips to a bottle when I carry an infection
[15:36] <kokey> just in case I don't finish the whole thing
[15:36] <gonzo_> use a straw
[15:37] <kokey> or a funnel
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander_> or glass
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[15:49] <NigeyS> ping Randomskk
[15:50] <Randomskk> hi
[15:50] <NigeyS> hey hey what was the link to grab telem from habitat ?
[15:51] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/ has all the links on it; http://habitat.habhub.org/ept is the one you want
[15:51] <NigeyS> ahh perfect, thanks Adam :-)
[15:51] <Randomskk> np
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[15:58] <Lunar_Lander_> hello NigeyS
[15:58] <NigeyS> hi kev
[15:58] <Lunar_Lander_> how are you?
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[16:04] <NigeyS> oh i'm good ta, you /
[16:04] <NigeyS> ?
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[16:09] <fsphil> maybe my next hab computer :) http://wilsonminesco.com/6502primer/index.html
[16:11] <Randomskk> :D
[16:11] <fsphil> I've been wanting to build a 6502 computer for years
[16:12] <number10> dont get the old blokes started on that fsphil ;)
[16:13] <Randomskk> compact, too http://6502.org/users/garth/projects.php?project=3
[16:14] <fsphil> just imagine that, but with polystyrene
[16:16] <number10> I wonder what size chute and balloon you would need
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander_> NigeyS, I am OK
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[16:22] <Lunar_Lander_> last night on "Domian" the radio phone talk show the topic was "cowards" and a man called in who got to know his girlfriend through world of warcraft and now they share a flat and she puts him under surveillance, i.e. he may not come home too late from work and stuff and when he wanted to break up, she beat him
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[16:30] <navrac> ping Bob_G8SNV
[16:30] <Bob_G8NSV> hi navrac
[16:30] <navrac> hiya - a little linky for you - i forgot to send it earlier
[16:30] <navrac> http://www.ict.griffith.edu.au/anthony/kites/parafauna/chute_design/Hemisphere_Chute_Calc.xls
[16:34] <jcoxon> navrac, http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:microballoons:data
[16:35] <Bob_G8NSV> interesting, gives half a sphere of sorts
[16:35] <navrac> just mirror it and it will give you a sphere
[16:36] <Bob_G8NSV> thats what I was looking at its exactly half
[16:36] <Bob_G8NSV> cheers!!
[16:36] <navrac> jcoxon - i'm not adding ozzie2 to that as im going to reuse the name (and payload)
[16:37] <jcoxon> sure
[16:38] <navrac> and i'd rather just miss out the whole episode! as it fits in with your 'don't launch when windy' in the faq
[16:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:39] <jcoxon> indeed
[16:42] <jcoxon> i'm going to clear the tracker
[16:42] <jcoxon> any complaints?
[16:42] <jcoxon> ping gonzo_
[16:50] <jcoxon> just thinking we could run dl-fldigi/spacenear.us in a wspr style setup
[16:50] <jcoxon> as in have people transmit in ukhas format
[16:51] <gonzo_> jcoxon, nope, go ahead. Thanks
[16:52] <jcoxon> gonzo_, could you add your flight data to our list
[16:52] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:microballoons:data
[16:54] <gonzo_> yep, np. I don't have a login, but can mail the info
[16:56] <jcoxon> its a self-sign up wiki
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[17:00] <gonzo_> anyone have the link to the raw telem for te tracking db?
[17:01] <gonzo_> ah, found it
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[17:10] <nosebleedkt> hi
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[17:11] <nosebleedkt> got prizes for helium
[17:11] <nosebleedkt> 6 cubic meters=105e
[17:12] <nosebleedkt> 10 cubic meters=175e
[17:12] <nosebleedkt> how do u find it?
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[17:16] <gonzo_> jcoxon, updated the table. Don't have the ascent/descent values as the data don't seem te be in the raw listing
[17:20] Nick change: stilldavid -> SparkBot
[17:20] Nick change: SparkBot -> stilldavid
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander_> nosebleedkt, IIRC I was once offered 10 m^3 for some 200 euro
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander_> so your prices could be OK
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander_> can anyone give more figures?
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander_> like daveake , fsphil , NigeyS
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander_> or priyesh jonsowman stilldavid as well
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander_> I'll be back later
[17:25] <x-f> those prices seem low
[17:25] <x-f> quite low, at least
[17:25] <Randomskk> what purity helium nosebleedkt?
[17:27] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data#helium_cylinder_data
[17:29] <nosebleedkt> Randomskk, dunno
[17:29] <nosebleedkt> How can I ask this?
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[17:38] <Lunar_Lander_> nosebleedkt, ask how much He and how much air is in the cylinder
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander_> on Raul's launch we got 95% He
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[17:39] <justa_> hi there - i could do with some help concerning the parachute :) specifically - how do you attach the parachute to the rope that goes fromt the payload to the balloon?
[17:40] <jcoxon> justa_, you planning to have the parachute pre-deployed
[17:40] <jcoxon> or hanging below?
[17:40] <justa_> which would you advise?
[17:41] <jcoxon> pre-deployed
[17:41] <jcoxon> hanging just gets tangled
[17:41] <jcoxon> so you attach a line between the payload and hte balloon
[17:41] <jcoxon> you also attach the parachute to the payload
[17:42] <jcoxon> you put a small hole (spill hole) in hte middle of the parachute and through this runs the main payload/balloon line
[17:42] <justa_> Okay - would you advise any kind of, I dunno, hot glue, to prevent the parachute from tearing?
[17:42] <justa_> (or is that not really that much of a threat?)
[17:42] <jcoxon> tearing in what way?
[17:43] <justa_> On its descent - when the parachute is filled with air, a small tear could rip the parachute? I'm totally new to this, sorry if it seems like a stupid concern :)
[17:43] <jcoxon> nah they are quite tough
[17:44] <justa_> what do you make of this image http://i.imgur.com/EyK7g.png
[17:44] <jcoxon> in regards to the small hole in hte middle, many already have a hole
[17:44] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander_ ok
[17:44] <jcoxon> often people have hte lengths the other way round
[17:44] <jcoxon> so 4m between the parachute and payload and 8m between parachute and balloon
[17:45] <jcoxon> the way i've described you put a knot in the main payload/balloon line which hte parachute rests on
[17:45] <nosebleedkt> is the purity affecting the flight?
[17:45] <justa_> ah, just what I was about to ask about :)
[17:45] <nosebleedkt> justa_ you are juxta?
[17:45] <justa_> thanks for the help, jcoxon
[17:45] <jcoxon> (in a position slightly below the parachute at full extension)
[17:45] <jcoxon> so that it just rests on it
[17:45] <justa_> nope, nosebleedkt
[17:46] <jcoxon> as the flight goes up it'll be kept closed
[17:46] <jcoxon> then when it comes down it'll inflate and lift off this position
[17:46] <nosebleedkt> Randomskk, is the purity affecting the flight?
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[17:48] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[17:50] <justa__> sorry, got disconnected. so, I have a curtain ring attached to the rope atm, form which the parachute is connected. Does this look secure? http://i.imgur.com/pWBLS.jpg
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[18:11] <Lunar_Lander_> back
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander_> nosebleedkt, your question was how purity acts on the flight?
[18:13] <nosebleedkt> y
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[18:15] <Lunar_Lander_> the less pure the He is, the less lift the balloon will have
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander_> so more gas would have to be filled in at the same payload weight
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander_> to get the same rate of ascent
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> And it will burst a hair lower
[18:19] <nosebleedkt> hair lower means much lower?
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander_> hair is about 0.002 mm
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[18:20] <nosebleedkt> lol
[18:21] <nosebleedkt> I will sent you to Merkel for making fun of me :p
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
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[18:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hey all
[18:30] <fsphil> evnin' dan
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[18:40] <fsphil> if there's ever a macguyver musical I wanna see it
[18:43] <jcoxon> haha
[18:43] <jcoxon> perhaps you should write it
[18:43] <jcoxon> it could have a laser harp
[18:43] Action: jcoxon is watching britains got talent
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[18:44] <fsphil> aah
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[18:45] <Laurenceb_> i just hope jcoxon is trolling us
[18:46] <jcoxon> itv now
[18:46] <jcoxon> its a laser harp
[18:46] <Laurenceb_> one of the reasons i dont have a tv
[18:46] <Laurenceb_> even if it has lasers im not watching
[18:46] <jcoxon> though its not working too well
[18:46] <jcoxon> oh dear
[18:46] <fsphil> there always seems to be someone in the audience in great pain
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL> haha fsphil
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL> just saw that
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[18:57] <fsphil> how's it all going Dan-K2VOL? it sounds like it's getting a bit mad
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[18:58] <Dan-K2VOL> that's a bout right phil
[18:58] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[18:59] Nick change: er1k757_ -> er1k757
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[19:05] Action: daveake just checked the tv for BGT ....
[19:05] <daveake> .... seen it all now :p
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[19:15] <MrScienceMan> has anyone tried to do SSTV from a ballon?
[19:15] <jcoxon> MrScienceMan, i have
[19:15] <Dan-K2VOL> many MrScienceMan, ATV is popular too
[19:16] <MrScienceMan> how hard would be to implement SSTV to send a picture down ?
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander_> well it took the greatest minds of the world on the way to that
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander_> first of all Archimede had to establish that a balloon would fly
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[19:17] <MrScienceMan> heh
[19:17] Action: fsphil hands Lunar_Lander_ his coat :)
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[19:18] <fsphil> sstv can be fairly tricky if you're using a simple arduino or the like
[19:18] <fsphil> some of the arm-based computers would be better
[19:19] <MrScienceMan> well, it has to be arm based
[19:19] <fsphil> many of those have audio out ports, so it's just matter of making the tones
[19:20] <MrScienceMan> what do you do with the tones afterwards? how would you transmit them down?
[19:21] <fsphil> the audio from the computer would be sent to a radio
[19:21] <fsphil> the ntx2 modules can do that but are quite low power
[19:21] <fsphil> if you're not in the uk and have an amateur licence, you may be able to use more powerful radios#
[19:25] <fsphil> if you've not tried it, have a play about with mmsstv
[19:26] <MrScienceMan> perhaps, there is command line utility that would do the transcoding
[19:27] <fsphil> yea, there's one that can generate a martin image
[19:27] <MrScienceMan> margin image?
[19:28] <MrScienceMan> martin*
[19:28] <fsphil> it's the sstv format, martin1 or martin2
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[19:28] <fsphil> there's loads of others
[19:28] <MrScienceMan> oh, ic
[19:28] <MrScienceMan> well, i will have to take a closer look at that
[19:28] <MrScienceMan> could work well with a raspberry pi
[19:29] <fsphil> indeed
[19:29] <fsphil> I must try dl-fldigi on that again
[19:30] <MrScienceMan> thanks for the info fsphil
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[19:32] <MrScienceMan> fsphil: one more question, is there sort of mode where you can send files over ham
[19:32] <fsphil> there was some kind of addon for easypal I think, or was it windrm
[19:33] <fsphil> if it's jpegs your sending them you may want to look at ssdv
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[19:38] <MrScienceMan> ssdv is an interesting idea
[19:39] <fsphil> I'm bias there as I made it. but yea ;)
[19:41] <nigelvh> You can send files over packet.
[19:41] <MrScienceMan> how many images, of resonable quality, can you send over the time of one flight?
[19:42] <nigelvh> That's a very variable and subjective question
[19:43] <fsphil> yea
[19:43] <fsphil> speed of transmition, size of images, etc
[19:43] <nigelvh> Short answer: somewhere between 0 and a lot.
[19:43] <fsphil> my last flight was 300 baud, the images 320x240 with fairly high compression. we got about 40 back
[19:45] <MrScienceMan> nigelvh: fairly close to my estimations :P
[19:45] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/sets/72157628264170117/
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[19:46] <MrScienceMan> 26 packets per image
[19:46] <nigelvh> Also, my personal opinion would be to dedicate the time you spend transmitting images to transmitting GPS data. Take images and save them to a card. Use the radio for finding it.
[19:47] <fsphil> if I had more power than 10mw I would have transmitted them faster
[19:47] <MrScienceMan> nigelvh: yeh, thats what im planing to do
[19:48] <MrScienceMan> im just interested what would take to do more, send images video
[19:48] <nigelvh> We do run video from ours, though we use an entirely separate transmitter.
[19:48] <fsphil> I mixed the images and telemetry
[19:50] <fsphil> definitely no substitude for nice high resolution images though :)
[19:50] <fsphil> (sp)
[19:50] <MrScienceMan> yeh, but its pretty cool
[19:51] <fsphil> substitute.. that's it
[19:51] Action: fsphil can't spell
[19:51] <fsphil> unless the payload ends up in the north sea that is
[19:53] <MrScienceMan> thanks again, gonna go grab a something to eat
[19:54] <daveake> North Sea? That never happens does it ....? :p
[19:54] <daveake> 1 mile dammit
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[19:56] <Lunar_Lander_> back
[19:58] <fsphil> I think I landed a good 50 miles or so away from the shore
[19:58] <daveake> Avoids all that "will it won't it" worry
[19:59] <fsphil> lol yea -- well there was the pre-burst "will it float to holland?!" moment
[19:59] <daveake> :)
[19:59] <fsphil> followed by a "ah crap, no" moment
[20:00] <fsphil> it must have washed up somewhere by now
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander_> XD I just imagine "ah crap no" being shouted
[20:03] <fsphil> I may reenact it :p
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander_> Going to the fish'n'chips shop, waiting for the payload to be washed up, will it float to holland? ah crap no, still off England
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander_> that's a pretty good text for a rap I think
[20:04] <fsphil> "Will it float? Do I need to steal that boat?"
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander_> xD yea
[20:05] <fsphil> "My payload's no longer in the air. That just ain't fair."
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander_> I placed my bets on Helium, but maybe I'd try hydrogenium
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:06] <fsphil> that's more of a stretch than latex
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[20:08] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:09] <fsphil> I've no idea why I don't write songs :)
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
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[20:25] <Lunar_Lander_> yay thunderstorm approaching!
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander_> fsphil, you get the balloons, I get the alti-electrographs
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, can you prepare the gas supply please?
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[20:26] Action: fsphil gets the long metal pole
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[20:26] <fsphil> I sat with a multimeter attached to my 5m long antenna last year during a thunderstorm ;)
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL> and somehow didn't die :-P
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander_> :D
[20:27] <fsphil> next time I do it remotely
[20:27] <fsphil> was interesting to see the voltage change during the storm
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> build a field mill
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> thats a fun project
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
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[21:46] <fsphil> would pressure be a more accurate indicator of altitude than gps?
[21:47] <Dan-K2VOL> do you want absolute altitude or pressure altitude?
[21:48] <fsphil> what's the difference? what I'm wondering is that the gps altitude for here varys between 60m and 150m, but the pressure here is 999.78mb which calculates to 112m
[21:48] <fsphil> using this: http://www.csgnetwork.com/pressurealtcalc.html
[21:50] <fsphil> google says my location is 74m ASL
[21:51] <fsphil> this a case of altitude being a relative term? :)
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[21:56] <Martin100> fsphil, altitude from GPS can vary a lot from your actual altitude (as indicated by a map or google earth)
[21:57] <Martin100> It's not just a GPS dither / timing problem
[21:58] <Martin100> some of the ublox strings report an altitude that is consistently 48m out for my location
[21:58] <Martin100> other strings are within a few metres
[21:59] <Martin100> That 48m error is on a local 'true' altitude of around 140 m
[22:01] <Martin100> Look for geoid separation in u-center
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[22:04] <fsphil> will take a look next time I'm in there
[22:05] <Martin100> It might have an impact on some claims for altitude records too. Pick the right string to use in your telemetry and you could conceivably grab a record with a lower altitude height
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[22:43] <jcoxon> night all
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[00:00] --- Fri May 11 2012