highaltitude.log.20120509

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[06:39] <UpuWork> morning
[06:39] <cuddykid> morning
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[06:44] <jcoxon> morning
[06:44] <number10> morning
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[06:56] <fsphil> ah nuts so it is
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[07:21] <UpuWork> hey number10
[07:21] <UpuWork> I got a CD copy of the RSGB Yearbook but the call sign listings aren't on it
[07:26] <number10> hi UpuWork
[07:28] <UpuWork> I have got a copy of the G3ZHI Call book database though
[07:28] <number10> OK, they must publish somewhere else.. anyway I was looking for a saw to scan to see what call signs were available - I did check when online licensing that M0UPU was available though :)
[07:28] <UpuWork> I know :)
[07:29] <UpuWork> mine I tell you :)
[07:29] <number10> I know, I wasnt going to take it - youll have that soon :)
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[07:29] <UpuWork> well fingers crossed I need to do some actual study
[07:30] <number10> I ment to say a way (noot a saw) :S
[07:30] <number10> yes, not long now
[07:30] <eroomde> moansing
[07:30] <UpuWork> good moaning
[07:30] <number10> morning
[07:31] <eroomde> first day back at work
[07:31] <UpuWork> work you say ? :)
[07:31] <UpuWork> your doing most peoples hobby
[07:31] <eroomde> i think everyone there will still be sleepy
[07:32] <eroomde> yes i am slightly waiting for my wee bubble to burst
[07:32] <eroomde> but not just yet hopefully
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[07:54] <number10> I just loaded another bit of the keyring vam footage from ANU if anyone is interested http://youtu.be/bgNgsFkq8F0
[07:54] <number10> cam
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[08:49] <Martin100> Can anyone give me some advice on the helium cylinder to balloon connection?
[08:50] <zyp> what kind of advice?
[08:50] <Martin100> balloonhelium.co.uk appear to provide a regulator and inflator kit with their cylinders I guess from the description this is sized for small party balloons and would need modding for use with a large latex balloon
[08:51] <Martin100> BOC cyclinders from what I heard
[08:52] <Martin100> Presumably they supply a single or two stage regulator with their cyclinder hire
[08:52] <Martin100> wish my keyboard would spell cylinder correctly!
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[08:57] <fsphil> the modding usually consists of duct tape and a hose pipe
[08:58] <fsphil> the regulator I have is for party balloons too, and we just tape the hose onto it and I get someone to stand at it and keep it opened
[08:59] <Martin100> ahh ok, so a bodge ?
[09:01] <Martin100> I already have a gas regulator I'd normally use for large welding gas (CO2/argon/Helium mix) and I hazard a guess might fit, meaning I could make something a bit better engineered up beforehand
[09:02] <fsphil> yea it's a bit of a bodge, but it seems to be air tight
[09:02] <fsphil> a bit slow though
[09:02] <Martin100> Assuming a pre regulator on the bottle what is the pressure during filling on the filler arrangement
[09:02] <Martin100> . from what I can tell the envelope is about 1.5 bar or about 22 psi, is this correct?
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[09:02] <Martin100> (Assuming a pre regulator on the bottle?)
[09:02] <fsphil> I'm not sure. there is a regulator on the bottle yea
[09:03] <Martin100> So a layer or two of duct tape holds the gas?
[09:03] <fsphil> it did for us
[09:04] <Martin100> I recall seeing a video of a commercial H2 balllon filling jig and wondering if a simplified version would make life easier
[09:04] <fsphil> the pressure in the balloon/hose is quite low
[09:04] <fsphil> yea for H2 it needs to be done properly, with proper connections :)
[09:04] <fsphil> no duct tape there
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[09:06] <Martin100> I don;t think people appreciate how dodgy H2 is, even peeling a pit of duct tape nearby could spoil your day!
[09:07] <fsphil> I've read enough warnings to be wary of it :)
[09:07] <fsphil> I'll be keeping people a good safe distance from the balloon and tanks
[09:07] <Martin100> Wish I could find the video of the commercial filling rig, ages since I've seen it and didn't book mark it
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[09:12] <Martin100> thanks fsphil, will probably call at BOC depot and have a look at a cylinder (not buying direct despite having an account with them!)
[09:13] <fsphil> I've an account too -- they're stupidly expensive
[09:15] <Martin100> Might even take my CO2/ Argon cylinder back at the same time , 76 quid a year just for me to store their cylinder
[09:19] <gonzo_> if you can find somewhere who fills them, pub co2 bottles are a useful size
[09:19] <gonzo_> (assume you atrev using for welding)
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[09:45] <Martin100> Thanks Gonzo, just popped out Captain Oates style - pub gas is a lot cheaper but welding thin mild steel sheet with 100% CO2 is difficult, and stainless and aluminium needs Argon
[09:46] <gonzo_> But you came back!
[09:47] <gonzo_> I've only got a MIG, so only really any good on mild steel
[09:47] <Martin100> Yes, its too cold out there
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[09:48] <Martin100> I've a MIG (huge thing) and a far more portable TIG unit that will also do stick welding
[09:48] <gonzo_> never used argon/co2 mix. Pure argon seems make the arc too hot for mild steel
[09:48] <gonzo_> would like a tig, but can't justify the cost for the limite use it would have
[09:49] <gonzo_> (and have a brother who does ali fab for a living)
[09:49] <Martin100> They are toys as I maybe do a half a dozen hours of welding a year
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[09:50] <Martin100> I use CO2 + 5% Argon for mild steel (used to be called lightsheild from BOC, no idea what it is called now)
[09:51] <Laurenceb> https://www.adafruit.com/products/570
[09:51] <gonzo_> my latest toy is oxy-prop cutting torch. I never realised metalwork could be so much fun!
[09:52] <Laurenceb> until you have to pay for new cylinders
[09:54] <Martin100> I've some small 2ft high oxy acetylene cylinders, not used them for a few years, they were rent free from when BOC used to sell them The carrier in the acetylene cyclinders breaks down over time and so they might go bang
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[09:55] <Laurenceb> yeah
[09:55] <Laurenceb> they are a little dangerous
[09:56] <Laurenceb> my stepdad goes through loads of them from BOC and always moans about the price, but actually i havent looked at how much they cost recently
[09:56] <Martin100> Melting holes in things is fun though :)
[09:58] <Martin100> Sheilding gas is relatively cheap, not sure about acetylene and oxygen. I get a sheet every 6 months when BOC tell me about 'energy prices' and how they have only increased prices by xx %
[09:58] <navrac_> upuwork - you're a bright bloke - can you follow the example on page128 of this using the nomogram.
[09:58] <navrac_> http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0450(1965)004%3C0122%3ASBFWR%3E2.0.CO%3B2
[09:58] <navrac_> every time i try it I get a different result to the example
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[10:11] <Bob_G8NSV> mornin all
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[10:16] <navrac_> morning
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[10:26] <Bob_G8NSV> hi navrac, what boost regulator did yopu use on your flights??
[10:28] <Bob_G8NSV> got to get a nice light small 3.3 that will give 200ma. My payload is less thann that but around 100ma
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[10:29] <navrac_> an 1802
[10:29] <navrac_> neds 2xAAA to give that sort of current - it will onkly give a handfull of mA with 1xAAA
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[10:32] <navrac_> sorry ncp1402 - brain fade
[10:33] <navrac_> sparkfun now do one on a little pcb http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10967
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[10:35] <Bob_G8NSV> seen that one looks the job is there a uk supplier?
[10:35] <navrac_> well I got a pololu 5v board in the uk and then replaced the chip with a 3v3 one from farnell
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[10:38] <Bob_G8NSV> pololu, will look them up
[10:38] <navrac_> can't see a uk supplier of the sparkfun model sorry
[10:39] <Bob_G8NSV> no nor could I pololu uk, website shows dollars?
[10:39] <navrac_> hobbytronics or alphacircuits for the pololu 5v one
[10:39] <Bob_G8NSV> great will have a look at them
[10:40] <navrac_> http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/pololu-5v-boost-regulator
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[10:41] <Bob_G8NSV> got that cheers!!
[10:42] <navrac_> no problem
[10:42] <Morseman> Try http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/components/voltage-regulators/ncp1400-stepup-5v
[10:42] <Morseman> Ah - too late :-)
[10:42] <navrac_> thats the 1400 - drops out at 100ma
[10:43] <Randomskk> hahahahaa https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfppfjuo69jcxlj/2012-05-09%2011.32.50.jpg
[10:43] Action: Randomskk finishes exams
[10:43] <Morseman> Sorry - I had surfed on looking for a way to power 5V Ublox from a 3.3V bus
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[10:44] <Morseman> Well done Randomskk - Time to stop worrying about results as nothing you can do now anyway...
[10:44] <navrac_> nice one randomskk - enjoy the break.
[10:45] <Randomskk> oh I will
[10:45] <Randomskk> until tuesday when projects start anyway
[10:45] <Morseman> Off to Maplin in lunch break to get a prototype board as fed up trying to solder 3 or more wires together without burning fingures!
[10:46] <Morseman> fingers - even
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:51] <fsphil> I can't go into maplin without buying something silly I didn't need in the first place
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[10:58] <Laurenceb> like an overpriced crappy tablet?
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[11:01] <fsphil> leds usually
[11:01] <Laurenceb> blinkenlights
[11:01] <fsphil> lol yea, I've enough to do my own display now
[11:02] <fsphil> I bought the pcb etching kit a while back and made just one board with it
[11:02] <fsphil> still have the etching chemicals in a jar somewhere
[11:03] <fsphil> it's a pretty good board though, I was quite pleased with it. but compared with just getting seeed to do it, it's just too much hassle
[11:04] <fsphil> and theirs look prettier
[11:04] <Bob_G8NSV> I ought to start playing with Eagle so I can make PCB's I bought the chemicals trays and some laser printer etch resist stuff I think you put on with an iron
[11:04] <Bob_G8NSV> bu**ered if I can find it!!
[11:04] <Bob_G8NSV> or use Eagle yet!!
[11:05] <navrac_> i just bought the chemicals and print onto clear film and used a fingernail curing uv light from amazon - although my desk light works just as well.
[11:06] <Bob_G8NSV> would be useful for the little disks I want for the terminations on my QFH antennas, better than cutting the copper away on my milling machine!!!
[11:06] <fsphil> I've got a stupidly large UV exposure box
[11:06] <fsphil> which I must get rid of
[11:06] <fsphil> only used it once :)
[11:06] <Bob_G8NSV> havent used one of those for years
[11:06] <fsphil> nor me. it's sat in the spare room for years now
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[11:06] <fsphil> got some spare bulbs for it in the attic too
[11:07] <Bob_G8NSV> used to have one at work, worked gret with the special board
[11:07] <navrac_> mine got converted to white light so my wife could ude it for stained glass work
[11:07] <fsphil> it does. though getting the exposure time right proved to be a pain
[11:07] <fsphil> neat
[11:08] <navrac_> sadly i havent got the patince to wait for seed, i prefr knocking them out quickly at home. And if you stick to SM you dont have to drill too many holes
[11:08] <Bob_G8NSV> must find this stuff, the laser printer sheets are with the trays, just found the etchant chemical
[11:09] <Bob_G8NSV> holes are a pain especially easy to break the tiny expensive drills
[11:10] <fsphil> yes
[11:10] <fsphil> think my board had about 60 holes
[11:10] <fsphil> sore on the eyes after about 20
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[11:11] <fsphil> one of the big advantages of smd stuff :)
[11:11] <navrac_> without doubt - its just the pesky eaders that need drilling - although thy are thicker and tend not to break so easily
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[11:12] <Bob_G8NSV> I have a superb large illuminated bench magnifier, and would be lost without it!!
[11:12] <navrac_> me too - its a life saver ( and in 2.5 minutes can expose uv sensitive board if you are lazy
[11:12] <fsphil> hah
[11:12] <Bob_G8NSV> great for soldering wires onto RFM22's and GPS modules
[11:13] <fsphil> the light in mine is great but the lens makes everything a bit blurry
[11:13] <fsphil> either that or my eyes. I'm not sure :)
[11:13] <Bob_G8NSV> lens in mine is great, picked it up from the recycling bit at the local tip for a fiver, hate to think what it cost new
[11:15] <fsphil> I'm gonna need something for when I start doing the smd boards
[11:15] <fsphil> thinking of those goggle things
[11:16] <Bob_G8NSV> like a brain surgeon
[11:16] <Bob_G8NSV> but without the tank top hankerchief on the head and rolled up trousers
[11:17] <Randomskk> stereo microscope
[11:17] <Randomskk> the best thing for soldering smd
[11:17] <Randomskk> they're seriously amazing
[11:18] <fsphil> I don't have room for one :(
[11:18] <Randomskk> :(
[11:18] <fsphil> unless I convert the shed
[11:18] <fsphil> but that costs moneys
[11:18] <Randomskk> cool though
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[11:19] <Bob_G8NSV> also got a great little clamp on vice you can tilt and swivel the jaws around great for holding stuff still at the right angle when you solder it
[11:19] <fsphil> we've got one at work.. I wonder if they'd mind me using that .... :)
[11:20] <fsphil> libraoffice is starting to annoy me. keeps bring up toolbars over the text I'm typing in
[11:21] <Bob_G8NSV> got to tidy my garage workshop up so I can use it for balloon envelope manufacture, got a great assembly/cutting table in there that came from a model aircraft shop at least 6ft long 4ft wide
[11:22] <Bob_G8NSV> perfect for cutting bin liners on!
[11:22] <Bob_G8NSV> and then the really tedious bit of joining all the bits together
[11:23] <fsphil> my shed is about that size :)
[11:23] <fsphil> it's full of junk
[11:23] <fsphil> don't need most of it I bet
[11:24] <navrac_> We're goiung to be moving so i persuaded the wife we should put the 6'6 x 4' kitchen table in the garage so th kitchen would look bigger
[11:24] <navrac_> now i have a perfect cutting table
[11:24] <Bob_G8NSV> ha ha ! good trick!!
[11:25] <navrac_> still waiting for my heptax delivery though and trying to work out all this superpressure nonsense
[11:26] <Bob_G8NSV> have you made your special tip yet?
[11:26] <navrac_> no - i knicked your idea and stole the travel iron
[11:27] <Bob_G8NSV> did it work??
[11:28] <navrac_> the sample i got the bond is much stroinger than the material - although as its one sided you have to bond it like err _| |_ if you see what i mean
[11:29] <navrac_> getting enough pressure is tricky - but seems to work - only takes about a second to bond
[11:30] <Bob_G8NSV> must find the old one we have somewhere, Simone has threatened me with death if I use her iron on bin liners!!
[11:30] <Bob_G8NSV> thats great news, so easy to do complex shapes with an iron?
[11:31] <Bob_G8NSV> or if I nick her baking sheets :(
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[11:33] <Bob_G8NSV> I reckon bin liners would definately stick without baking sheet, did with some of the experiments I did with bits of metal heated with a blowlamp, but seemed better with copper for some reason, maybe the oxide acted as an anti stick layer, but baking sheets definately work
[11:34] <navrac_> yes - luckily there were two rolls of baking paper so one has 'dissapeard' from the kitchen
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[11:35] <navrac_> I would try solar balloons but 1) wheres the sun and 2) I'd need a notam for a big enough balloon. With superpresure I can just squeeze in the 2m rule with a 1.6m tetroon
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[11:37] <navrac_> its not too bad doing complex shapes with an iron as you have to do but joints so actually its quite easy.
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[11:38] <Bob_G8NSV> a sub 2M solar will lift up to 100G max according to the calculators
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[12:16] <Hibby> http://www.ccpgames.com/skywardsphere <== they're livestreaming their HAB lanch on iceland
[12:16] <Hibby> their videos are always very nicely presented too :)
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[12:19] <MrScienceMan> is that live stream actually live?
[12:19] <Hibby> yeah
[12:19] <MrScienceMan> strange, i hit refresh
[12:20] <MrScienceMan> and saw the same beginin
[12:20] <MrScienceMan> g
[12:20] <Hibby> i think so - the instamapper set up they're using suggests it's not be launched yet
[12:20] <Hibby> I just refreshed and it resumed from where I was
[12:20] <Hibby> which is their staff sunbathing on the office roof
[12:20] <Hibby> and bursts of icelandic audio
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[12:22] <Laurenceb> lolzers
[12:22] <Laurenceb> thumbs up dude
[12:22] <Hibby> they appear to be waiting for clearance, according to twitter
[12:23] <Laurenceb> looks a bit cold, no wonder its called iceland
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[12:23] <Hibby> In the words of this wise young Scotsman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34mHZgP9vkc
[12:23] <Hibby> AH HATE ICELAAND
[12:24] <Hibby> however, onboard camera is supposed to be streaming from the air too
[12:24] <Hibby> I'm assuming that it's over 3g and will die rapidly, but I may be wrong
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[12:24] <Hibby> that guy is their head of customer interaction and comes up with all these mad plans
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[12:28] <Hibby> and they're off
[12:28] <MrScienceMan> yep :D
[12:28] <Hibby> lovely live video from the capsule
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[12:29] <navrac_> i wonder hol long they will be able to keep the live link from the capsule up
[12:29] <Hibby> yeah
[12:30] <MrScienceMan> maybe they have e 2.4mhz link ?
[12:30] <Hibby> "Siminn who is partnering with us in this adventure is providing us with live video feed and GPS tracking via their 3G network and Samsung Note."
[12:30] <MrScienceMan> ahh
[12:30] <x-f> i wonder where will it land, given the size of Iceland
[12:30] <Hibby> unless they've got directional nodes
[12:30] <Hibby> they've got the fligh plan all worked out, so the page says
[12:30] <MrScienceMan> is there really a need for sound stream?
[12:30] <Hibby> lol
[12:31] <navrac_> 1km
[12:31] <Hibby> I'll fire them an email later to ensure they tell others how easy it is.
[12:31] Nick change: AndChat| -> NigeyMoby
[12:31] <x-f> "the live feed (..) should last the whole flight all the way up to 100.000 feet."
[12:32] <Bob_G8NSV> not if its 3g!
[12:32] <Hibby> what kind of mystery network have they in Iceland?
[12:32] <Bob_G8NSV> bends the laws of physics captain!
[12:32] <navrac_> well iguess if you own the network, you can bend the rules a bit
[12:32] <Bob_G8NSV> I think its hard coded into the TDMX system
[12:33] <x-f> and their cost guard will retrieve the payload
[12:33] <Bob_G8NSV> when the travel time of the signal goes outside the frames, bump!
[12:34] <Bob_G8NSV> thats why you need so many 3g cells, not because of the signal coverage its the limitation of the time domain muxing
[12:34] <MrScienceMan> video is getting shaky
[12:34] <x-f> 2.6 km altitude
[12:35] <Hibby> of course, tdma.
[12:35] <x-f> 3 km
[12:37] <Bob_G8NSV> The aussies have cells with 200KM range so they should be OK, looks like the limit may be something set here in the UK
[12:37] <Bob_G8NSV> http://www.cellular-news.com/story/21963.php
[12:38] <Bob_G8NSV> with only a few calls you can prob stretch the timing out but heavy loading would need shorter frames hence a shorter distance?
[12:39] <Bob_G8NSV> looking at that spinning makes you dizzy!
[12:39] <x-f> 4.4 km, 6.6 m/s ascent rate
[12:39] <x-f> this is pretty cool
[12:41] <Hibby> impressive it's still going
[12:42] <Bob_G8NSV> If the network is involved looks like they will be sure it will work
[12:43] <Bob_G8NSV> nice view of the airport runways!
[12:44] <Hibby> yeh
[12:45] <MrScienceMan> celltower pointing to space?
[12:45] <Darkside> if they point some of the base station antennas up, then sure
[12:45] <Darkside> it'll work fine
[12:46] <Darkside> but in most cases they don't
[12:46] <Darkside> because their customers aren't often above grtound level
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[12:46] <MrScienceMan> live stream is pretty smooth right now
[12:46] <Hibby> yeah
[12:47] <x-f> but instamapper stopped updating
[12:47] <MrScienceMan> doubt thats just on the normal sell tower
[12:47] <Hibby> given their network is involved and the galaxy note is part of the deal, they've definately sunk money in as an advertising gig
[12:47] <MrScienceMan> we could be on an alternative video stream
[12:47] <Hibby> true
[12:47] <MrScienceMan> thats not using the cell network
[12:47] <MrScienceMan> seems really smooth
[12:48] <MrScienceMan> too smooth :P
[12:49] <Hibby> there's always the possibility that the network lended them some RF nerds to get a decent alternative stream up, to make the network look better..
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[12:50] <Bob_G8NSV> Theres a shadow of what lookes like a wip with a loading coils at the base, thats not 3g, more like VHF or UHF
[12:50] <Hibby> yeah
[12:51] <Bob_G8NSV> saw it on the pod a couple of times as it was spinning past the sun
[12:52] <MrScienceMan> yeeh :)
[12:52] <Darkside> i'm wonderinf if its 70cm ATV
[12:53] <Darkside> does it go staticy?
[12:53] <Darkside> or is it just compression
[12:53] <Darkside> ack, not sure how to describe what i mean
[12:53] <Darkside> if its ATV you'll see the signal go to static occasionally. if its a digital link then you'll get artefacts from lost bits
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[12:55] <navrac_> oops bye bye stream
[12:55] <MrScienceMan> :)
[12:55] <MrScienceMan> here is a nice picture of a boat
[12:55] <MrScienceMan> spot the moving van
[12:56] <MrScienceMan> so its fair to say that about 6km is where you lose cell covarage
[12:58] <Bob_G8NSV> no wind, interesting near verticle ascent
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[12:59] <Hibby> Darkside: I know what you mean
[12:59] <Bob_G8NSV> me to, looked like decent analog vid tell it went
[12:59] <Bob_G8NSV> didnt see it go was upstairs
[13:00] <navrac_> it went jerky - no artefacts - then straight to black
[13:00] <x-f> and back
[13:00] <MrScienceMan> its back
[13:00] <Bob_G8NSV> well im of out shopping see ya all later back!!
[13:00] <navrac_> looks analogue to me
[13:00] <MrScienceMan> maybe a UFO flew by and they didnt want to us to see
[13:01] <Bob_G8NSV> or an ash cloud
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[13:01] Nick change: navrac_ -> navrac
[13:01] <MrScienceMan> :P
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[13:10] <Hibby> Lovely footage
[13:10] <Hibby> the thing is, it's jerky but there aren't any artefacts
[13:10] <Hibby> there's no analogue degredation to the footage, in other words
[13:11] <MrScienceMan> digital
[13:11] <r2x0t> they are probably filtering bad frames
[13:11] <Hibby> yeah
[13:11] <MrScienceMan> ops
[13:11] <MrScienceMan> where did the capsule go
[13:11] <Hibby> Balloon burst/freefall?
[13:11] <navrac> ooh dear.....
[13:11] <MrScienceMan> needs instant replay
[13:12] <navrac> was at 16km a couple of minutes ago
[13:12] <r2x0t> bit early then
[13:12] <Hibby> hmm
[13:12] <Hibby> it's due to be down by 23
[13:12] <Hibby> 8230
[13:12] <Hibby> dammit
[13:13] <Hibby> 230
[13:14] <Hibby> equallt, ah
[13:14] <Hibby> looks like pod ejection was separate
[13:14] <Hibby> jesus, my fingers are terrible today
[13:15] <x-f> "This feels like a Kerbal Space Program launch, it fell apart"
[13:16] <navrac> the pods going to come down with a bang - the parachute was attatched to the balloon and camera
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[13:17] <Hibby> haha
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[13:17] <Hibby> ...
[13:18] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[13:18] <Hibby> "I hope there is enough wind to blow it into outer space! It would be LEGENDARY!!!!!!"
[13:18] <Hibby> really?
[13:18] <Hibby> realllly?
[13:18] <navrac> i know the twitter feed is fun
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[13:19] <navrac> looks like its falling
[13:20] <Laurenceb> *failing
[13:20] <MrScienceMan> Hilmar Veigar  @HilmarVeigar
[13:20] <MrScienceMan> Who podded the pod? #skywardsphere
[13:20] <MrScienceMan> awww :(
[13:20] <Hibby> hilmar's the CEO of CCP
[13:20] <Laurenceb> its not on spacenear
[13:21] <Hibby> nope
[13:25] <Laurenceb> then i dont care :P
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[13:32] <craag> Where's the tracking for the CCP balloon?
[13:32] <MrScienceMan> its just a phone
[13:32] <MrScienceMan> http://www.instamapper.com/ext?key=18003797683735731226
[13:33] <gonzo_> btw did someone say there was a better/updated android chase car app?
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[13:33] <Randomskk> gonzo_: yea
[13:34] <Randomskk> gonzo_: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pexat.habhub.chasecartracker
[13:34] <navrac> aprs racking?
[13:34] <gonzo_> is that updated one from priyesh?
[13:34] <Randomskk> yes
[13:35] <gonzo_> rrr ta
[13:35] <craag> MrScienceMan: Thanks, looks like they've lost tracking now though! (49 minutes since last update at 6559m)
[13:35] <MrScienceMan> coz its a phone, no covarage
[13:36] <craag> Ah, so it's on it's way up, my bad.
[13:36] <navrac> its on its way down - probably not low enough yet
[13:37] <fsphil> someone launched?
[13:38] <gonzo_> iceland! Where did it launch from?
[13:39] <craag> It's CCP games doing a HAB with a phone tracker for publicity.
[13:39] <navrac> the live video from the balloon was good
[13:39] <craag> All their player's usernames (including mine) are stored in the phone memory IIRC.
[13:39] <Laurenceb> lame
[13:39] <Hibby> they were on the capsule
[13:39] <Hibby> that disappeared.
[13:40] <Laurenceb> sorry but thats just sad
[13:40] <Randomskk> why?
[13:40] <Hibby> why?
[13:40] <Laurenceb> usernames stores in flash
[13:40] <Laurenceb> wow
[13:40] <Hibby> I didn't say flash...
[13:40] <Laurenceb> well whatever - memory
[13:40] <Hibby> A company doing a thing related to their game for customer outreach/appeasement/because they can is cool
[13:41] <Hibby> I think the names are physical
[13:41] <Laurenceb> sure, but saving your username in memory is more than a little lame
[13:41] <craag> Hibby: My bad, they are physical.
[13:41] <Randomskk> but so what if they were even digital?
[13:41] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[13:41] <craag> http://www.joystiq.com/2011/12/31/ccp-launching-eve-character-names-and-pictures-into-space-via-gi/
[13:42] <craag> Newer article: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/08/ccp-launching-eve-online-drop-pod-into-the-stratosphere-tomorrow/
[13:43] <Hibby> It's silly and meaningless, but kinda cool. It would be better if CCP go on to tell others how to do it/they did it/etc, but regardless, it's another launch
[13:43] <Hibby> with a live video feed from the balloon.
[13:46] <gonzo_> how did they do that, over the phone?
[13:46] <MrScienceMan> it was over the phone in the begining, i think
[13:51] <Hibby> yeah
[13:51] <Hibby> looked like some sort of uhf digital link afterwards
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[14:21] <number10> does anyone have a windows chase car app that will work with a USB gps?
[14:21] <Randomskk> dl-fldigi
[14:21] <gonzo_> the USB gps rx I have seen are just a nmea o/p with an ftdi converter
[14:22] <number10> ha I'll take a look Randomskk
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[14:51] <UpuWork> meh CCP
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[16:28] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[16:29] <number10> afternoon
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[16:51] Action: Hibby cracks out his memories on information sources & coding
[16:52] <Hibby> it's been a while, old friend...
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[17:05] <russss> hi lindas :)
[17:06] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:06] <lindas> hello :)
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[17:08] <russss> lindas: if you just want something to track a balloon, there are a couple of people here who have well-tested trackers which they may be willing to lend you
[17:09] <russss> depends on what you're planning. The ukhas wiki is a good start anyway. Otherwise ask here
[17:12] <lindas> the gps is for tracking it when it falls down again, mostly. We want to do videos:)
[17:13] <russss> ok cool. If you're attaching a video camera then it's definitely worth finding someone with a well-tested tracker to use, because it will reduce your chances of using it.
[17:13] <russss> er, losing
[17:13] <russss> my brain has completely disintegrated this afternoon.
[17:14] <lindas> am also reading this http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920021605.do but don't have the money to build my own satellite platform just yet
[17:14] <jcoxon> lindas, whats your project?
[17:18] <lindas> just sending a camera up as high as it will go for the fun of it (all the cool kids are doing it)
[17:19] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:19] <jcoxon> well you are in the right place
[17:19] <jcoxon> and the wiki will help
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[17:22] <russss> jcoxon: we should have a wiki page for "people who are willing to lend you a tracker"
[17:22] Action: russss suspects you could probably make a bit of cash out of selling a simple PCB/GPS/NTX2 kit too...
[17:22] <jcoxon> thats true
[17:23] <jcoxon> though wheres the fun!
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[17:25] <Bob_G8NSV> Hi All
[17:25] <Bob_G8NSV> A very sucessful test of welding bin liners with an iron!
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[18:06] <number10> not far off the pylons for ANU/CLOUD landing http://i.imgur.com/3Rggh.jpg
[18:06] <Bob_G8NSV> Hi All
[18:07] <number10> hi Bob_G8NSV
[18:07] <Bob_G8NSV> had a little play with some plastic welding experiments today
[18:22] Action: jcoxon is recording his dayton hamvention presentation
[18:29] <number10> for review by all those on IRC
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[19:00] <nigelvh> what you presenting on jcoxon?
[19:00] <nigelvh> Not that I live near or will be at dayton...
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[19:05] <eroomde> so having done a rocket last week i think ow that hedgehog 2 will combine a balloon flight computer with a rocket one
[19:05] <eroomde> the overlap is quite large
[19:05] <eroomde> and having a separate flight computer and tracker on the rocket was a bit faff
[19:07] <nigelvh> I find the functionality is similar, but there are different requirements/form factors.
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[19:08] <eroomde> the addition for the rocket will be more pyro channels and more dynamic sensors
[19:08] <nigelvh> For example, I have no reason to put an accelerometer on the balloon, but the rocket is important, the balloon has no need for the chute/stage relays, but the rocket does. etc.
[19:08] <eroomde> ie accels, gyros and pressure
[19:08] <eroomde> which nowadays can be done for ver little board space
[19:09] <nigelvh> Really you can make a board and have pads for various sensors and just populate what you need. The form factors in my use cases end up needing to be different though.
[19:09] <eroomde> sure
[19:09] <eroomde> well rocket is the driver really
[19:09] <nigelvh> Yers
[19:09] <eroomde> balloons have much flexibilit with pcb size usually
[19:10] <nigelvh> yes*
[19:11] <eroomde> ive decided to get my level 1 :)
[19:11] <nigelvh> For example, my balloon boards were designed to support 6 DB9 connectors around the edge for the student payloads. The wasted space to pads and routing to add that to the rocket board would be huge.
[19:11] <eroomde> blimey yes i can see that
[19:12] <eroomde> wouldnt get that into a 29mm tube
[19:12] <nigelvh> Nope
[19:12] <nigelvh> So we just do two systems
[19:12] <eroomde> so do you do rocketry stuff with students too?
[19:12] <nigelvh> If you don't have those requirements, then there's no reason you couldn't make one system for both.
[19:12] <nigelvh> Yes
[19:12] <eroomde> cool
[19:12] <eroomde> what kind of stuff?
[19:14] <nigelvh> The balloons class focuses on having the students do "science" the rockets class focuses on making a functioning rocket body. So the telemetry for the balloon supports getting their data down and recovery. The rocket telemetry is about finding out how high/fast it went, firing the chutes, and direction finding to it.
[19:16] <eroomde> awesome
[19:16] <eroomde> we could have done with better telem last week
[19:17] <nigelvh> Yeah?
[19:17] <eroomde> lost the upper stage
[19:17] <eroomde> somewhere in the scottish highlands
[19:18] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/definitivepicture/7145379949/in/photostream
[19:18] <nigelvh> Yes, but how was the telem lacking?
[19:18] <eroomde> oh it couldnt cope with the spinning on the 2nd stage
[19:18] <eroomde> too rapidly fsding in and out
[19:19] <eroomde> so couldnt get an idea of where it was heading
[19:19] <nigelvh> What kind of antenna did you use?
[19:19] <MrScienceMan> lol, is that text over the photo really nessesary?
[19:19] <eroomde> and when it lands you have no chance up there as the are mountains so you have to be almost on top of it before you get LoS
[19:19] <eroomde> MrScienceMan: was by a pro press photographer who came up out of interest
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[19:20] <eroomde> nigelvh: bazooka dipole in te fibreglass nose
[19:20] <MrScienceMan> still tho, its not that high res, could've put it to the side
[19:20] <MrScienceMan> really ruins the photo
[19:20] <nigelvh> We generally just use a coaxial dipole and have no issues with fading.
[19:21] <nigelvh> Though we also use 350mW transmitters.
[19:21] <eroomde> yeah
[19:21] <eroomde> we we sticking to our silly laws
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[19:21] <eroomde> MrScienceMan: agreed
[19:21] <eroomde> cest la vie tho
[19:22] <nigelvh> Yeah, we don't have those limitations....
[19:22] <nigelvh> GPS?
[19:22] <eroomde> ublox 6
[19:23] <eroomde> worked ok for first stage but with a lack of a complete string before the 2nd went out of LoS, we just lost it
[19:23] <nigelvh> Yeah, we havent used GPS, though I've got a header for a GPS connection on the boards. We launch in the middle of a giant flat desert, so direction finding is easy.
[19:23] <eroomde> tou can see how steep those valleys are from thatphoto
[19:24] <nigelvh> I like that stream you launched next to.
[19:24] <eroomde> he took it from the ridge next to the launch site, and it was that kind of 1500ft undulation for many miles in all directions
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[19:25] <eroomde> it was beautiful though
[19:25] <nigelvh> I bet.
[19:25] <nigelvh> I'm sure you've seen it, but here's where we launch ours. http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/?p=1121
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[19:28] <eroomde> bastard :)
[19:28] <eroomde> i want to go to black rock
[19:28] <eroomde> now that ive done a ig rocket it seems like the sort of thing one shold do
[19:28] <nigelvh> It's got it's own unique beauty.
[19:28] <eroomde> a black roc
[19:28] <eroomde> i will maybe try and do an L3 there
[19:28] <nigelvh> Plus there's hot springs there
[19:29] <eroomde> once ive done l1 and l2
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[19:29] <nigelvh> Well, when you come over to america to do your L3 at black rock, let me know and I'll head down there with you.
[19:29] <eroomde> awesome
[19:29] <eroomde> i want to do my l1 this year
[19:29] <eroomde> i want to be a bit silly about it
[19:30] <nigelvh> In what way?
[19:30] <eroomde> and do a homemade biprop with 640Ns total impulse
[19:30] <nigelvh> home made biprop for your L1 huh? That is in the silly range.
[19:30] <eroomde> which i think is te upper end of 'I'
[19:30] <eroomde> well my bay job is liquid rocket engines now
[19:31] <eroomde> day*
[19:31] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
[19:31] <eroomde> so ive little excuse
[19:31] <nigelvh> Well, don't quit your day job.
[19:31] <nigelvh> ;)
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[19:31] <eroomde> also the regulations for solids are very annoying
[19:32] <eroomde> and i wont get a storage license while im renting
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[19:33] <Elmar_PD3EM> Good evening all!
[19:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> got my tracker code almost ready :-)
[19:35] <nigelvh> Evening and good job Elmar.
[19:35] <Elmar_PD3EM> decoded rtty looks like:
[19:35] <Elmar_PD3EM> $$PD3EM,229,19:34:12,518926381,48252049,-3,5,18,1013,0,20,0*7764
[19:35] <nigelvh> Fancy
[19:35] <Elmar_PD3EM> tnx nigelvh
[19:36] <nigelvh> I'm also trying a new system here in a couple weeks. I'll be doing APRS from mine.
[19:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> if anyone wants to look at the code, i've put it on github
[19:36] <nigelvh> In the past I've done RTTY which worked pretty well.
[19:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> APRS sounds great nigelvh lots of listeners not aware of the HAB ;-)
[19:37] <nigelvh> Yeah, with digipeaters and igates, I figure it will have a good chance of getting data down even if I can't hear it.
[19:37] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, link?
[19:38] <jcoxon> hey er
[19:38] <jcoxon> eroomde,
[19:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> evening james!
[19:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> https://github.com/PD3EM/HAB-Tracker
[19:38] <eroomde> jcoxon: yo
[19:38] <nigelvh> By the way jcoxon, what will you be presenting on at dayton?
[19:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> with thanks to a lot of you for your help and code examples
[19:39] <jcoxon> nigelvh, ukhas, spacenear.us and pico balloons
[19:39] <nigelvh> Fancy. I don't live near nor will I be attending dayton, but I bet it will be a great presentation.
[19:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> can we have a sneak preview jcoxon ?
[19:40] <jcoxon> nigelvh, its pretty awkward listening to my own voice
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[19:40] <nigelvh> I totally agree
[19:41] <nigelvh> I think I sound totally different when I'm recorded vs what I hear when I speak.
[19:42] <eroomde> Randomskk: http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/
[19:43] <eroomde> yes i dont like hearing my voice either
[19:43] <eroomde> skull provides a better transfer function
[19:43] <Elmar_PD3EM> can I test my tracker on spacenear.us?
[19:44] <eroomde> of course
[19:45] <Elmar_PD3EM> how to setup for the string and data?
[19:46] <jcoxon> you need to make a flight doc
[19:46] <nigelvh> eroomde: god damn that's a big nasty pile of hex data in that boilerstrapjs there.
[19:47] <nigelvh> Also I like the mice in the page source.
[19:48] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: any info on ukhas wiki about the flight doc? Don't see it
[19:49] <jcoxon> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[19:49] <jcoxon> what it generates at the end copy that into pastie.org and post hte link to Randomskk or DanielRichman
[19:51] <Elmar_PD3EM> jcoxon: Thanks! but not yet ready for a launch window....
[19:51] <jcoxon> ummm
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[19:52] <jcoxon> just put something in
[19:52] <Elmar_PD3EM> ok
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[20:03] <eroomde> spinal tap on itv4 starting now
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[20:03] <eroomde> WIN
[20:05] Action: daveake turns the volume up to 11
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[20:47] <NigeyS> quick call a plumber
[20:47] <fsphil> lol
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[20:47] Action: griffonbot is following: #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon #projecthorus #HABE2
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[20:51] <fsphil> someone needs to put more duct tape on the internet
[20:52] <marcozambi> hi there
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[20:53] <marcozambi> I wonder if someone of you have ever attempted a cluster balloon launch
[20:54] <marcozambi> For my team's Stratospera launch we're going to use a 3 1000g baloons cluster
[20:55] <gonzo__> will the burst be a little erratic?
[20:56] <LazyLeopard> s/will the burst/the burst will/ ;)
[20:57] <marcozambi> I think so
[20:57] <marcozambi> the point is, our mission goal is to have a super stable payload platform
[20:57] <marcozambi> in order to take low-light photos
[20:57] <Upu> 3 ballons isn't the best way to go
[20:57] <Upu> if one bursts
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[20:58] <Upu> I think people tried it and the results weren't great
[20:58] <marcozambi> and to do so we figured out that attaching 3 balloons to the sides of the payload nacelle, we could have optimal stability for a reasonable amount of time
[20:58] <LazyLeopard> I'm pretty sure several folk have tried multi-balloon launches, and inevitably one bursts before the others, and it's pretty much impossible to get exactly even lift from them as well,
[20:58] <Upu> ----/\
[20:58] <Upu> that
[20:59] <marcozambi> Yes, we do think also that one will blow up before the others.
[20:59] <marcozambi> When that will occour, we'll call the mission over
[20:59] <Upu> if you want a stable platform then balloon isn't the best choice
[20:59] <marcozambi> I see, Upu, what do you suggest?
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[21:00] <Upu> helicopter :)
[21:00] <Upu> UFO :)
[21:00] <marcozambi> LOL
[21:00] <Upu> whats your aim ?
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[21:00] <marcozambi> Taking pictures of the rising sun
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[21:00] <Upu> ok you don't need a stable platform for that
[21:00] <marcozambi> Little before and little after dawn
[21:01] <Upu> and the balloons aren't bad for that
[21:01] <Upu> generally the cameras take with a high shutter speed
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[21:01] <Upu> so any blurring is negated
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[21:02] <marcozambi> Yes, we thought about that
[21:02] <Upu> I always wondered about putting 2 hard drive motors in a payload with platters
[21:02] <Upu> one vertically
[21:02] <Upu> and one horizontally
[21:02] <Upu> spin them up and the gyroscopic effect should stop it spinning
[21:02] <Upu> I think anyway this idea currently hasn't progressed past the "in my head" part of the design
[21:02] <marcozambi> but since we're using a "cheap" IXUS camera powered by custom firmware, we have limits on how fast we can take pictures. And we do also have limitations with total mass of payload
[21:03] <marcozambi> due to security regulations by Italian law
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[21:03] <Upu> Well I had an A710 IS (image stab) which I got from E-Bay for £40
[21:03] <Upu> that did one picture every 5 secods
[21:03] <daveake> The IXUS cameras don't stop down, so with a full aperture the exposure time will be short
[21:03] <marcozambi> We purposely avoided any kind of active stabilization (gyros, etc) in order to minimize weight and total mass
[21:03] <Upu> put it on landscape mode
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[21:04] <Upu> I'll PM you link to all the phones
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[21:04] <marcozambi> ok thanks
[21:05] <Upu> I was trying a heated U/V filter
[21:05] <Upu> failed :)
[21:05] <Upu> back soon need to reboot
[21:05] <marcozambi> anyway I was also curious to know if someone of you have studied the interaction between the balloons in a clustered configuration
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[21:05] <Upu> speak to RocketBoy or Jcoxon I think they may have done it
[21:05] <Upu> back soon
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[21:06] <MrScienceMan> has anything thought of using a raspberry pi for the ballon?
[21:06] <MrScienceMan> 25$ a pop
[21:06] <daveake> Mine arrived today
[21:07] <fsphil> they're somewhat overkill for balloon use
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[21:07] <daveake> I'll probably fly one just for the hell of it, but it's hardly the right tool for the job
[21:07] <daveake> fsphil was thinking of doing image downloads with it
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[21:08] <fsphil> that would allow you to use a nice cheap usb webcam
[21:08] <daveake> exactly ;)
[21:08] <fsphil> the big flaw with my system is the silly expensive uart cameras
[21:08] <daveake> Yeah, that's what stopped me douing that
[21:08] <MrScienceMan> guess its overkill if its just gonna move GPS data to the TX
[21:08] <daveake> yep
[21:08] <MrScienceMan> but opens possibilities for all sorts of other things
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[21:09] <MrScienceMan> what chip would you suggest as controller, for just moving gps data
[21:10] <fsphil> tim's attempt with the usb cameras did show up a problem -- they don't handle the high contrast well
[21:11] <marcozambi> For our launches we're using an open developement platform, composed by an open source OS and an open source board.
[21:11] <marcozambi> They're developed by Develer srl
[21:11] <fsphil> most people seem to use avr chips, but some fly PICs too
[21:11] <marcozambi> OS is called BertOS, board is called BSM
[21:12] <marcozambi> BSM board has a lot of sensors onboard, like GPS, accelerometer, barometer, and offers 3 UART serial ports for other things
[21:13] <marcozambi> It's still in developement, but you can find out more at our website http://www.stratospera.com/archives/875
[21:13] <marcozambi> I'm not selling anything
[21:13] <marcozambi> :)
[21:13] <MrScienceMan> how use would be do develop for those modules?
[21:13] <MrScienceMan> how easy*
[21:13] <marcozambi> Just sharing our experience
[21:13] <MrScienceMan> s/do/to/
[21:13] <MrScienceMan> :D
[21:14] <marcozambi> Well, you have to know some C
[21:14] <MrScienceMan> C is no problem :)
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[21:14] <marcozambi> BertOS is very well documented
[21:14] <marcozambi> in english too
[21:15] <marcozambi> http://www.bertos.org/
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[21:15] <marcozambi> I was forgetting, we have SD support
[21:15] <MrScienceMan> mmm interesting, libraries will definitly help out alot
[21:15] <marcozambi> and in next 2/3 releases, a mini radio module very close to Radiometrix
[21:16] <marcozambi> Yes, as I said it's open source and free to use
[21:16] <marcozambi> and the BSM board design too.
[21:16] <marcozambi> We're preparing a wiki page
[21:17] <marcozambi> This is the draft we're working on
[21:17] <marcozambi> http://batt.develer.com/trac/stratospera/wiki/WikiStart
[21:17] <marcozambi> Anyway we'll be back here to share our experience and see if we can be of any help to the launcher's community
[21:18] <MrScienceMan> Interface for CHDK-modded Canon / Ixus cameras
[21:18] <MrScienceMan> does that mean, i would be able to control the camera?
[21:18] <marcozambi> yessir
[21:18] <marcozambi> yes
[21:18] <marcozambi> BSM commands the switch between video and snapshot mode
[21:19] <marcozambi> triggered by, for example, a certain altitude
[21:19] <marcozambi> or the "shaking" caused by balloon's burst
[21:19] <marcozambi> and sensed by the onboard accelerometer
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[00:00] --- Thu May 10 2012