highaltitude.log.20120502

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[00:59] <danieldaniel> hey
[00:59] <danieldaniel> I am planning on launching a raspberry pi into space with one of those ballon thngs
[00:59] <danieldaniel> how would I go about doing it?
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> The above tracker mentioned
[01:01] <danieldaniel> picochu?
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> Click on that - and get an altitude graph
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> you see it went to 5km, then came back down
[01:01] <danieldaniel> yeah
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> Then select 'pan to' on the map tab, and you can see where it landed
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> The last packet was at 411m, so it will likely have landed within 300m or so of that spot
[01:02] <danieldaniel> so close
[01:03] <danieldaniel> what if it lands on a house or something
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> Then you drive to that area, and see if you can either see it, or recieve it.
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> you apologise
[01:03] <danieldaniel> is it illegal?
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[01:04] <SpeedEvil> Not with the correct permissions - at least in the UK
[01:04] <danieldaniel> I'm in the US though
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> US works too, and is in some ways easier, as they can use he APRS radio network
[01:05] <danieldaniel> but is it legal?
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> yes
[01:06] <SpeedEvil> If you jump throught he right hoops and construct the payload correctly.
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[01:06] <danieldaniel> i think I need to ask the FAA though
[01:09] <danieldaniel> i think that blowing it up will be easier
[01:10] <SpeedEvil> IIRC, you don't
[01:10] <SpeedEvil> Ask over on #highaltitude
[01:10] <danieldaniel> thats where we are
[01:10] <danieldaniel> :P
[01:10] <SpeedEvil> oh
[01:10] <danieldaniel> LOL
[01:10] Action: SpeedEvil is tireder than he thought
[01:11] <danieldaniel> my dads a pilot (as a hobby)
[01:11] <danieldaniel> I'll ask him
[01:12] <danieldaniel> and btw
[01:12] <danieldaniel> this is all if the garbage guys didn't come yet
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[01:47] <griffonbot> Received email: Gemma Rawcliffe "Re: [UKHAS] Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
[02:09] <schofieldau> http://www.brendangregg.com/specials.html
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[04:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Spike (Chris Foote) "Re: [UKHAS] Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
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[05:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
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[07:16] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
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[07:34] <number10> how did exam go yesterday jonsowman ?
[07:38] Nick change: danielsaul_alt -> danielsaul
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[07:50] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Possible launch Sunday 6th BELLO MONDO"
[07:51] <jonsowman> number10: one of them quite well thanks, one of them average :)
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[07:52] <jonsowman> now for a fun filled day of revision before two more tomorrow
[07:52] Nick change: UpuWork- -> UpuWork
[07:53] <griffonbot> Received email: jules@g0nzo.co.uk "[UKHAS] Re: Possible ANU / BUZZ / CLOUD Launch - 5/5/2012"
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[07:53] <gonzo__> mornin all
[07:53] Nick change: gonzo__ -> gonzo_
[07:54] <daveake> morning
[07:56] <gonzo_> who do we know who edits the text info on the tracking page?
[07:56] <gonzo_> mornin daveake
[07:56] <daveake> UpuWork for a start
[07:56] <daveake> Prolly several others
[07:57] <gonzo_> just want to make sure the above date change is picked up
[07:58] <gonzo_> Ta. Will ping him if your posting didn't wake his chat client
[08:05] <UpuWork> it did but need to pop out back soon
[08:06] <gonzo_> hehe, you can be arrested for that sort of thing!
[08:07] <daveake> he has been
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[08:24] <UpuWork> what needs doing ?
[08:26] <daveake> spacenear flight panel needs updating
[08:26] <daveake> If only I knew what with :p
[08:28] <gonzo_> It's not there yet, but there is the change of date for BONZO in the sourec data. New date 7th May. 12GMT
[08:28] <daveake> Current planned launches .... Sunday 6th approx 9-10am UK time, ANU/CLOUD 434.075/434.2, BUZZ 434.650, XABEN (dunno), MONDO (dunno)
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[08:35] <number10> XABEN 434.300
[08:36] <UpuWork> Christ
[08:36] <UpuWork> Bello mondo is up too
[08:37] <UpuWork> shame I'm not in on Sunday
[08:37] <jonsowman> Martlet 1 is launching this afternoon, will keep you up to date when i hear more
[08:42] <jcoxon> oh dear, i'm going through my 'i want a 3d printer' phase again
[08:42] <jcoxon> similar to the i want an ipad but have no real use for it phase
[08:42] <daveake> The skies will be alive, with the sound of rtty
[08:43] <daveake> Buy a printer; make an iPad
[08:43] <daveake> Might not work too well, mind
[08:45] <jcoxon> how are 3d printers so expensive...
[08:46] <gonzo_> the three levels of justification for a new gadget. Don't need, no use for, can't afford = Must buy!
[08:48] <fsphil> they cancel eachother out
[08:49] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:53] <jcoxon> i think i'm over my 3d printer stage
[08:54] <daveake> that was quick
[08:56] <jcoxon> its probably best that i'm over it
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[09:10] <zyp> I think the same happened to me, after buying a kit, before assembling it
[09:11] <zyp> because I've had a half assembled 3d printer kit lying about in my storage room for over a half year now
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[09:11] <daveake> If you build it up to a certain point, can it finish the job itself? :p
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[09:13] <nosebleedkt_> Hello everybody !
[09:13] <zyp> daveake, would be nice :p
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[10:18] <costyn_> hello
[10:19] M6GLD (5697d163@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.151.209.99) joined #highaltitude.
[10:19] <costyn_> so I got myself a usbtinyisp but I cant figure out how the 6 pin ribbon cable goes to my seeeduino stalker; there's no indication on the board on how I should orient the connector
[10:19] <costyn_> google hasn't been my friend unfortunately
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[10:22] <fsphil> is there a pin 1 mark?
[10:22] <fsphil> there's usually a dot or x
[10:23] <costyn_> fsphil: been looking, can't find it... http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/File:Stalker-V1-hardware.jpg <-- would the square bit around the pin be indicator for pin 1?
[10:24] <costyn_> actually that seems to be VCC
[10:26] <fsphil> pin 2 will be vcc
[10:27] <fsphil> yea the square one *should* be pin 1
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[10:28] <costyn_> if I get it wrong, will I fry something? or will it just not work :)
[10:28] <fsphil> yes :)
[10:29] <costyn_> heh
[10:29] <fsphil> really don't know. I've not got it the wrong way yet
[10:29] <fsphil> you could try a continuity check between the pins on the header and the avr chip
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> http://www.digikey.com/product-highlights/us/en/analog-devices-npe-vol3/1512?utm_source=cheetah&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11-09-NewProductExpress#tabs-3
[10:33] <Laurenceb> Noise figure (DSB): 12.2/11.4
[10:33] <Laurenceb> ouch
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[10:40] <gonzo_> that's about right for the nf
[10:40] <gonzo_> not designed to be used directly from an antenna
[10:41] <gonzo_> you can improve thimngs a lot wioth a few stages of LNA
[10:41] <costyn_> fsphil: thanks
[10:42] <gonzo_> though any synth noise etc will always be there
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[10:43] <Laurenceb> yes
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[10:43] <Laurenceb> but it still needs an ADC on the end
[10:43] <Laurenceb> guess you could use an stm32f4
[10:45] <Laurenceb> would need a lot of bandpass on the IF
[10:49] <gonzo_> as it's an internal vco I expwect there willm be a lot pf synth noise
[10:49] <gonzo_> of
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[11:11] <Laurenceb> so go to high IF
[11:12] <gonzo_> any noise on the LO will be directly modulated onto any baseband
[11:12] <Laurenceb> itll tend to be around DC surely?
[11:13] <gonzo_> you can filter the out of band spurs from the IF but any close in noise will be on each of the IQ o/p
[11:13] <gonzo_> depends on the VCO design
[11:13] <gonzo_> and llop filter
[11:13] <gonzo_> loop
[11:13] <gonzo_> (I'm no expert on these)
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[11:38] <Morseman> Yea! 1st Arduino program uploaded and works and 1st program I've moddified and managed to get working as I wanted!
[11:38] Action: Morseman is dead chuffed ;-)
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[11:46] <markdownunder> good on ya
[11:48] <fsphil> you always remember the 1st program :)
[11:50] <jonsowman> the first program is usually "flash this led"
[11:50] <jonsowman> the hello world of embedded development
[11:50] <fsphil> my first pic program was an infinite loop. I'm not sure it even worked
[11:50] <jonsowman> haha
[11:51] <fsphil> actually my very first program ever was an infinite loop too: 10 goto 10
[11:51] <daveake> Once I thought I'd have a go at Algol. Program was 100 lines and had 120 errors. I gave up.
[11:51] <daveake> I probably missed a semicolon somewhere :)
[11:51] <fsphil> lol
[11:52] <daveake> I once quickly typed up a program to print Xmas trees on a lineprinter. Was supposed to have branches and everything. Instead it printed a single large rectangle with an off-centre trunk.
[11:53] <daveake> I did persevere that time
[11:53] <fsphil> I've never seen an Algo program before ... *googles*
[11:53] <Martin100> semicolons drive me nuts, when arduino throws a wobbler on compilation the error line bears no relation to the location of the error
[11:53] <fsphil> 1. OOCH MY EYES
[11:53] <daveake> Yeah, happens. Opening and forgetting to close comments can cause confusion.
[11:54] <jonsowman> Martin100: the compiler error will be on the line where the semicolon missing actually causes a syntax error
[11:54] <jonsowman> so a few lines below, usually
[11:55] <fsphil> I wonder if C could do without the semicolon
[11:55] <jonsowman> it ignores whitespace, so the line breaks don't actually have any bearing on the problem
[11:55] <Martin100> I can never remember the syntax for the star and slash so resort to double slashes
[11:55] <fsphil> /* */
[11:55] <jonsowman> fsphil: you'd have to make a line break a thing
[11:55] <jonsowman> to replace ;
[11:55] <jonsowman> or something
[11:55] <fsphil> I wonder if it can be done without that too jonsowman
[11:55] <fsphil> i = 1 b = 2
[11:55] <daveake> A few years ago I spent a morning writing some assembler, and then in the afternoon did the calling code in C. As part of the debugging I commented out some of the C code, but did so using the assembler method (prefix with ";"). Took a while to figure out how come the code was still being executed!
[11:56] <fsphil> the compiler could be smart enough to realise those are separate
[11:56] <jonsowman> fsphil: that means a space is now part of the syntax
[11:56] <jonsowman> it would have to understand i=1b=2
[11:56] <fsphil> true
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[11:59] <Martin100> Payload successfully tested at -20 deg C yesterday evening, pulled out of freezer and got GPS lock in a few mins, 8 hours soak test overnight with very few errors
[12:00] <nosebleedkt_> can someone point me to some pictures where she shows how to combine the payload with the cord and the parachute?
[12:00] <Martin100> Testing on NiMh AA's still warbling away more than 12 hours later
[12:00] <Martin100> There is a link on upu's site to payload parachute balloon
[12:00] <Morseman> Now moddified the code so that the two external LEDs are on PINs 11 and 12 and flash on and off in sequence without the LED that was on PIN 13 (as per the Arduino "Blinks" programme) flashing when the programme is uploaded
[12:01] <Morseman> Learning a heack of a lot in a very short space of time for me!
[12:02] <Morseman> I have even updated the comments to reflect the changes that I made!
[12:02] <jonsowman> that's always wise
[12:03] <Morseman> I might not have done that in my youth jonsowman!
[12:03] <jonsowman> :)
[12:04] <Morseman> And saved it to a different filename!!!
[12:04] <jonsowman> you're using a proper version control system now i assume :P
[12:04] <Randomskk> one day, version control :P
[12:04] <Martin100> @nosebleekt - http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=129
[12:05] <jonsowman> sketch.ino.old.bak.03032011_new
[12:05] <jonsowman> that's always fun
[12:05] <Morseman> I've not yet implemented ISO5001 at home...
[12:05] <Randomskk> do you mean 9001 or actually 5001?
[12:06] <Morseman> If I do another iteration, I'll try using V1.0 but the sketch naming system wont allow dots ot 'funny' characters I've found out
[12:06] <Randomskk> 5001 is like, energy usage and environmental impact
[12:06] <jonsowman> Cold-reduced carbon steel sheet for vitreous enamelling
[12:06] <Randomskk> jonsowman: ?
[12:06] <jonsowman> 2nd google result for ISO5001
[12:06] <jonsowman> i was very confused
[12:06] <Morseman> That's because I'm an energy efficiency engineer/consultant Randomskk ...
[12:06] <jonsowman> haha
[12:06] <Randomskk> Morseman: aha
[12:07] <Randomskk> jonsowman: that steel sheet doesn't come up on ddg at all. and also doesn't seem to be relevant at all :P
[12:07] <jonsowman> the energy management stuff is ISO50001
[12:07] <Morseman> At work we have to version control *all* our reports...
[12:07] <Randomskk> jonsowman: what?
[12:08] <Randomskk> hm
[12:08] <jonsowman> Randomskk: 50001, not 5001
[12:08] <Morseman> sorry I missed a 0
[12:08] <Randomskk> a shocking number of people call it 5001
[12:08] <jonsowman> yes indeed
[12:08] <jonsowman> Morseman: lol don't worry
[12:08] <Randomskk> but indeed it is
[12:08] <jonsowman> we're both just avoiding doing work
[12:08] <jonsowman> :D
[12:08] <Randomskk> BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE
[12:08] <jonsowman> haha yes
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[12:11] <Martin100> Get old enough and you can becomae an expert in BS EN 62402
[12:11] <Randomskk> thrilling standards
[12:12] <Morseman> I think I already qualify to be a part of that std Martin100
[12:13] <Martin100> First time I saw that I thought it was a spoof standard
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[12:34] <WillDuckworth> any news from the scottish rockets event?
[12:35] <Randomskk> not yet, launch window in a couple of hours
[12:35] <Randomskk> last news was this morning saying they're getting everything set up
[12:35] <Randomskk> so provisionally launch today
[12:36] <WillDuckworth> cool - will keep an eye - anywhere with live video / pics? (probably not as in middle of nowhere)
[12:37] <Randomskk> the only signal is via satellite phone
[12:37] <Randomskk> so, no
[12:37] <WillDuckworth> what i thought - should be interesting to see what happens!
[12:37] <Randomskk> yup!
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> We need some sort of balloon relay system :)
[12:38] <Randomskk> :P
[12:38] <jonsowman> s/relay system/launch platform/
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> s/launch platform/high altitude citadel/
[12:41] <jonsowman> :D
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[12:43] <Morseman> Back later - leaving Arduino transmitting LED RTTY :-)
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[13:00] <MrScienceMan> hey, can anyone suggest any self contained APRS systems for tracking?
[13:01] <Darkside> theres a few commercial units around
[13:01] <markdownunder> byonics do a nice tracker. can't be used in the UK tho
[13:01] <Darkside> Byonics have one, Alpha micro have one
[13:01] <Darkside> i made my own..
[13:04] <Darkside> wait, not alpha micro
[13:04] <Darkside> its soeone else
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[13:04] <Darkside> bigredbee
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[13:06] <MrScienceMan> i've been eyeballing the byonics trackers, wondered if there are other solutions
[13:07] <Darkside> none that are cheap
[13:07] <Darkside> MrScienceMan: where are you launching from?
[13:07] <MrScienceMan> east europe
[13:07] <Darkside> ok, aprs should be legal then :P
[13:08] <MrScienceMan> yes :)
[13:08] <Darkside> anyway, there aren'y many cheap options for aprs
[13:08] <Darkside> well, any really
[13:08] <Darkside> unless you build it all yourself
[13:09] <MrScienceMan> yes, i've come to the same conclusion
[13:10] <Darkside> to build it yourself, you'd use a radiometrix HX1 module + an arduino + a GPS
[13:10] <Darkside> and use the trackuino code
[13:11] <Darkside> anyway, i need to sleep..
[13:11] <Darkside> nn
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[13:12] <MrScienceMan> Darkside: hold on
[13:12] <MrScienceMan> i was thinking arduino uno boad + ublox MAX-6 + rfm22b
[13:13] <Darkside> well that won't do aprs
[13:13] <Darkside> it'll do RTTY fine though
[13:13] <MrScienceMan> why not?
[13:13] <Darkside> APRS is AFSK - FSK on top of FM
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[13:14] <Darkside> the RFM22B modules only do direct FSK
[13:14] <Darkside> also, the RFM22B modules will not operate on teh european aprs frequency, 144.8 or whatever it is
[13:14] <MrScienceMan> well, i could change the radio module
[13:14] <Darkside> you would need to
[13:15] <Darkside> the Radiometrix HX1 modules will work fine for APRS on that frequency
[13:15] <Darkside> they do 300mW, which is more than enough when you're in the air
[13:15] <MrScienceMan> even at 25000m altitude?
[13:15] <Darkside> yes
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[13:16] <Darkside> as long as there are digipeaters and igates within line of sight range, it should be fine
[13:16] <Darkside> i presume your license class covers data?
[13:17] <MrScienceMan> i dont have a license, but i have a person that does
[13:17] <Darkside> it should be you with the license really, not htem
[13:18] <Darkside> anyway. the HX1 module should work
[13:18] <Darkside> well, does work
[13:18] <MrScienceMan> haha :)
[13:18] <Darkside> its what we use here..
[13:18] <MrScienceMan> will check it out, thanks for hte info
[13:18] <Darkside> (australia)
[13:18] <Upu> but not in the UK...
[13:19] <Upu> OFCOM police will come crashing through your window if you so much as think of firing up a HX1 @ altitude
[13:19] <fsphil> unless you have one of those heavier than air balloons
[13:19] <Darkside> Upu: fsphil he's in east europe
[13:19] <fsphil> I know :)
[13:19] <Darkside> ok sleep time for me
[13:19] <Darkside> nn
[13:19] <fsphil> nite!
[13:19] <MrScienceMan> Upu: well dont do it then :P
[13:19] <Randomskk> Upu: OFCOM are far too busy giving hams celebratory callsigns for the jubilee and olympics to actually monitor transmissions :P
[13:20] Action: Randomskk is MQ0RND for the queen's jubilee!
[13:20] <Randomskk> (the Q is for Queen!)
[13:20] <fsphil> 2Q0VIM :)
[13:20] <Randomskk> :D
[13:21] <Randomskk> have you got your olympic one too?
[13:21] <fsphil> did, 2O0VIM
[13:21] <fsphil> which is just odd
[13:22] <Randomskk> yea it doesn't go with 0 very well
[13:22] <Randomskk> MO0RND etc
[13:22] <Randomskk> moo
[13:22] <fsphil> MO0000
[13:22] <fsphil> MO0COW is gonna have a great day
[13:22] <Randomskk> hehe
[13:22] <Randomskk> haha
[13:22] <Randomskk> yes
[13:22] <SolarNRG> is it immoral to squash wasps on the window?
[13:23] <Randomskk> it depends on what kind of moral framework you operate in really
[13:23] <SolarNRG> I mean they can go quite high
[13:23] <daveake> Yes, because of the pane
[13:23] <fsphil> you're ok as long as you don't tell everyone on the interne... oh
[13:23] <Randomskk> oh my goodness daveake
[13:24] <daveake> Sorry, back to work ... :)
[13:24] <fsphil> oh dear
[13:24] <SolarNRG> Daveake ha ha
[13:24] <Randomskk> you should make punning your day job frankly
[13:24] <Randomskk> I'd pay to sit and listen
[13:24] <fsphil> beehave yourself
[13:24] <daveake> oh dear /2 :)
[13:25] <SolarNRG> Buzz off
[13:26] <UpuWork> silly vanity call signs
[13:28] <fsphil> I had 2R0VIM too, but only the 817 at the time. nobody could hear me :)
[13:29] <Randomskk> aww
[13:29] <Randomskk> what was the R for?
[13:29] <fsphil> royal wedding
[13:29] <Randomskk> aha
[13:30] <fsphil> mattltm was in wales on the day with NigelMoby, and they could *just* hear me
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[14:31] <UpuWork> anyone got the photo of the opened up NTX2 ?
[14:34] <SamSilver_> Hmm I keen to have a look see aswell
[14:35] <UpuWork> well I could go remove the one from the original Ava board
[14:36] <fsphil> someone at cusf posted a picture of one last year
[14:37] <daveake> Well that's wierd ... spacenear is showing my test payload, but for approx 16 minutes ago. It's updating in real (-16 mins) time yet I'm not uploading ...
[14:37] <fsphil> http://hexoc.com/u/ntx2-1.jpg
[14:37] <fsphil> UpuWork, ^^
[14:38] <daveake> I see adjustment
[14:38] <Laurenceb> you can adjust that be peeling the sticker
[14:39] <daveake> Yeah, heard that. Not done it yet.
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[14:44] <SamSilver_> got a flip-side picture
[14:44] <gonzo_> the other side is opne anyway
[14:45] <SamSilver_> OO I never seen one in real life
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[14:51] <cuddykid> daveake: when are you planning to regain your record?
[14:52] <Randomskk> the ntx2 is full of magic
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[15:00] <UpuWork> indeed this one has been in the sea for 18 hours :http://i.imgur.com/OcwK0.jpg
[15:00] <UpuWork> thanks fsphil I got bored of waiting and went and opened one up :)
[15:01] <fsphil> lol
[15:02] <Randomskk> daveake: spacenear.us server load is through the roof
[15:02] <Randomskk> which is causing the delay
[15:04] <UpuWork> 9.77, 9.44, 9.04
[15:04] <UpuWork> nice
[15:05] <UpuWork> why all the predictor processes ?
[15:06] <UpuWork> it keeps spawning /home/space/landing_prediction/pred -i /home/space/landing_prediction/gfs
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[15:23] <UpuWork> ping daveake
[15:24] <DanielRichman> spacenearus iz fixed.
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[15:25] <mrmodesty> hi all
[15:26] <mrmodesty> UpuWork are you there?
[15:26] <UpuWork> nope leave a message after the beep
[15:26] <mrmodesty> :)
[15:26] <UpuWork> hi there
[15:26] <mrmodesty> do you remember that I told you I had problems RTTY on Arduino?
[15:27] <UpuWork> Yup
[15:27] <mrmodesty> so... still there :)
[15:27] <mrmodesty> I can grab the screen and show you the waterfall
[15:27] <UpuWork> shoot
[15:28] <UpuWork> does anyone know if this : http://hexoc.com/u/ntx2-1.jpg was a 075 or a 650 model ?
[15:29] <UpuWork> upload to http://imgur.com mrmodesty
[15:29] <fsphil> I think jonsowman did the dirty on that ntx2. he may know
[15:29] <jonsowman> yes, i'm responsible for that particular murder
[15:30] <UpuWork> can you recall the model it was ?
[15:30] <UpuWork> pls say 650
[15:30] <jonsowman> hmm, i can't remember
[15:30] <jonsowman> Randomskk took the photos
[15:30] <jonsowman> lemme see if i have any more
[15:31] <mrmodesty> that is the link: http://imgur.com/ql6us
[15:31] <UpuWork> that SAW filter is 433.92Mhz
[15:31] <UpuWork> I'm trying to ascertain if we just switch the crystal out its going to work at a different frequency
[15:31] <UpuWork> that looks perfect mrmodesty
[15:32] <jonsowman> UpuWork: it's a 075
[15:32] <UpuWork> press RV
[15:32] <UpuWork> damn
[15:32] <jonsowman> why?
[15:32] <jonsowman> oh, the SAW filter
[15:32] <jonsowman> the one on the .650 will also be a 433.92
[15:32] <UpuWork> yeah
[15:32] <jonsowman> their Q-factor isn't /that/ high
[15:32] <UpuWork> ok thats promising then
[15:32] <UpuWork> the crystal is very easy to remove
[15:33] <jonsowman> :)
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[15:34] <mrmodesty> UpuWork already tried RV, it doesen'te decode
[15:34] <jonsowman> SAW filters are also extremely expensive, hence using a 433.92 which loads of things use. manufacturing them on a small scale for the NTX2 would probably more than double the price
[15:34] <UpuWork> mrmodesty can you record it for 60 seconds then upload it somewhere for us ?
[15:35] <UpuWork> File-> RX Capture
[15:35] <mrmodesty> sure
[15:35] <fsphil> the ntx2 still manages to put out some signal on x2 and x4 its frequency
[15:37] <jonsowman> yeah, the saw filter is not for harmonic filtering
[15:37] <jonsowman> it's to select the 4th overtone of the crystal
[15:37] <mrmodesty> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6767547/capture.wav
[15:37] <jonsowman> then there's the power amp, and some other bits
[15:38] <jonsowman> i didn't really examine the PA and harmonic filter
[15:38] <jonsowman> but it's certainly not as sophisticated as a SAW
[15:38] <jonsowman> just a few passives I think :)
[15:39] <UpuWork> checking mrmodesty
[15:39] <mrmodesty> thx
[15:39] <UpuWork> hmm ok I can't listen to it here
[15:40] <UpuWork> but it looks ok
[15:40] <UpuWork> I'll take a listen when I get home
[15:40] <mrmodesty> ok
[15:40] <UpuWork> unless anyone else can take a listen
[15:40] <UpuWork> the code is the demo code from the Wiki >
[15:41] <UpuWork> ?
[15:41] <mrmodesty> yes
[15:41] <jonsowman> yep will do, gimme a sec
[15:41] <UpuWork> should be 8N1 then
[15:41] <jonsowman> hmm no that doesn't sound like rtty
[15:42] <mrmodesty> :(
[15:42] <UpuWork> should be able to fix that
[15:42] <UpuWork> got a photo of your wiring ?
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[15:42] <jonsowman> sounds like a software thing to me
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[15:42] <UpuWork> and did you try the hi-lo code ?
[15:43] <UpuWork> so it was doing a high and a low tone every second or so ?
[15:43] <UpuWork> because the shift looks spot on
[15:43] <jonsowman> yeah shift is fine
[15:43] <jonsowman> but it's mainly staying high and then flicking low a few times per second
[15:43] <jonsowman> then a period of carrier
[15:43] <mrmodesty> let me check...
[15:43] <jonsowman> mrmodesty: what's it meant to be transmitting?
[15:44] <UpuWork> should be SOMETHING RTTY TEST BEACON
[15:44] <jonsowman> okay
[15:44] <UpuWork> M6UPU if the code is as copied
[15:50] <mrmodesty> yes. I simply used your code
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[15:50] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[15:50] <mrmodesty> first I wanna check the hardware
[15:50] <Lunar_LanderU> short question
[15:51] <mrmodesty> sorry there was an error in the code
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> MOSFET needs a voltage at the gate which is smaller than the voltage being switched?
[15:52] <mrmodesty> that's the new: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6767547/capture.wav
[15:52] <mrmodesty> doesn't decode anyway
[15:54] <UpuWork> back from home shortly
[15:54] <mrmodesty> see you later...
[15:55] <Lunar_LanderU> hello daveake
[15:57] <r2x0t> it's inverted
[15:57] <Martin100> mrmodestry, you need to retune your receiver as that last one is all in the 0-500Hz range
[15:57] <r2x0t> 50Bd/426Hz 7N1 inv decodes
[15:57] <r2x0t> M6UPU TEST RTTY BEACON
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[15:59] <mrmodesty> damn!
[15:59] <mrmodesty> I've done!
[16:00] <mrmodesty> tnx r2x0t
[16:01] <Martin100> Not sure how you've done that r2x0t as I can't decode that using your settings
[16:01] <Lunar_LanderU> Martin100: try to hit the Rv button
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[16:01] <Martin100> I've used the rv button lunar
[16:02] <Lunar_LanderU> oh ok
[16:04] <Martin100> it sounds nothing like my rtty, maybe I'm the only one on the planet that can decode it
[16:05] <Laurenceb> any rocket launch then?
[16:06] <Randomskk> no news yet
[16:06] <Randomskk> no signal either though
[16:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hi Laurenceb, Randomskk
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[16:11] <Lunar_LanderU> hello cuddykid
[16:12] <cuddykid> hi Lunar_LanderU
[16:12] <Lunar_LanderU> cuddykid: you used MOSFETs before?
[16:13] <cuddykid> yes, but it took a long time to get the correct wiring :P
[16:13] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[16:13] <Lunar_LanderU> what voltage did you want to switch?
[16:13] <Lunar_LanderU> I.e. what was connected to device and drain
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[16:14] <cuddykid> can't remember exactly, I think it was around 5v
[16:14] <Lunar_LanderU> and on the Gate?
[16:14] <cuddykid> 3v i think
[16:15] <Lunar_LanderU> OK
[16:15] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[16:18] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later
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[16:28] <SolarNRG> Based on the fact that all current activities at Groom lake are highly classfied and any attempts to learn what goes on at the base with the world's longest runway are met with lethal force.... Is it possible in the slightest that there may be a highly classified Air Force Moon Base?
[16:30] <Randomskk> no.
[16:30] <Randomskk> that's stupid.
[16:31] <NigeyS> hah understatement
[16:32] <jonsowman> SolarNRG: let's try and remain on topic, less of the conspiracy theories etc please
[16:32] <Randomskk> not that a moon base is off topic, just the conspiracy theory about it
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[16:33] <nigelvh> Morning all
[16:36] <number10> Randomskk: I dont think there was anything wrong with the predictor yesterday - sorry about that - I need my cache cleared I think
[16:37] <Randomskk> ok np
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[16:48] <Bob_G8NSV> Hi daveake
[16:49] <Bob_G8NSV> I have found the cause of the fault
[16:50] <Bob_G8NSV> Not control board ifs a missing neg 6 volt supply.
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[16:52] <Bob_G8NSV> A DC DC converter has failed
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[17:19] Action: daveake wakes up
[17:20] <daveake> Hi Bob, nice one :-)
[17:20] <daveake> Fixable?
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[17:29] Action: SpeedEvil wonders when the falcon heavy demo flight is.
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[17:42] <Upu> [17:26] <SolarNRG> Based on the fact that all current activities at Groom lake are highly classfied and any attempts to learn what goes on at the base with the world's longest runway are met with lethal force.... Is it possible in the slightest that there may be a highly classified Air Force Moon Base?
[17:42] <Upu> wtf ?
[17:42] <Upu> just ban him already
[17:42] <jonsowman> next time
[17:42] <Upu> all he does is troll
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[17:42] <jonsowman> i hadn't warned him or said anything until today, so banning him straight off is perhaps unfair
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[17:43] <Upu> I'm happy to warn him
[17:43] <Hiena> Geee... Sounds somebody healing too much helium.
[17:43] <Upu> evening Rob!
[17:43] <Upu> Catch you on the radio if you're about later just cooking now
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[18:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hello again for a bit
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[18:13] <nigelvh> Howdy Lunar_LanderU
[18:13] <Lunar_LanderU> hi nigelvh
[18:13] <nigelvh> Life?
[18:14] <Lunar_LanderU> quite OK, thanks and yours?
[18:14] <nigelvh> Doing well. Just getting things set for our launch in a few weeks.
[18:15] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[18:15] <nigelvh> How's yours coming along?
[18:15] <Lunar_LanderU> I am currently thinking about the MOSFET
[18:15] <Lunar_LanderU> had a cold test today at -77°C
[18:15] <nigelvh> Yes?
[18:16] <Randomskk> rocket status update
[18:16] <Randomskk> stood down for today
[18:16] <Randomskk> Stand down...... Rocket prep went well but we only got the rocket onto the rail right at the end of the window. It armed fine, and all tracking was fine but we had a motor misfire on stage 1 - it just makes a 'chuff' sound and throws the igniter out the back, without properly lighting. Didn't have time to reignite as there were already planes on the radar. The rocket then just sat on the pad and safely stood down. It's a bit of an irritation b
[18:16] <Randomskk> re-try tomorrow
[18:17] <nigelvh> That sucks, but I've been in the same position.
[18:17] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later
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[18:17] <nigelvh> Problems and ran out of time in our window, but we were on the rail and armed.
[18:17] <Hiena> Ohhh...
[18:18] <Hiena> Randomskk: What the type of your engine ?
[18:19] <Randomskk> two stage solid fuel, one N and one M.
[18:19] <Hiena> How much is the nozzle diameter of the irst stage?
[18:20] <Randomskk> can't remember. chunky.
[18:21] <Randomskk> it's an M1450 and an N2500
[18:27] <Hiena> Grr, no nozzle data. For the bigger than 6mm nozzle engines i usually use an diesel ignition plug with flash powder coating.
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[18:29] <Robert_M0RJX> hey all
[18:30] <Robert_M0RJX> Just finished a HAB residential for teachers today
[18:30] <number10> elo
[18:30] <Robert_M0RJX> At the national Science and Learning Centre in York
[18:30] <Randomskk> http://imgur.com/ygFiB
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[18:30] <Randomskk> rocket on launch rail
[18:31] <number10> thats coolo
[18:31] <Hiena> Sure start and no throw back. I had trouble to start some ammonium-nitrate based engine years ago, but a thermite based ignition resolved the problem.
[18:31] <Randomskk> two stages so I imagine they're going to be making sure the second stage igniter works well too
[18:32] <Randomskk> at any rate plenty of knowledgeable people around so I'm sure they'll sort something out :P
[18:32] <Hiena> Nice rig. Looks there is a plenty room for a sparkler.
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[18:35] <Robert_M0RJX> https://www.sciencelearningcentres.org.uk/centres/national/courses-and-events/35447-46976
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[18:38] <fsphil-laptop> a HAB course, neat!
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[18:38] <Robert_M0RJX> There will be a few more schools in the ait this year
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[18:39] <Robert_M0RJX> air
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[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> they building it all from scratch?
[18:44] <Robert_M0RJX> Yep sort of I'm suppying tracker
[18:44] <Robert_M0RJX> ie the hard bit and they do the rest includeing getting beggin ght radio rx
[18:44] <Robert_M0RJX> the
[18:46] <Upu> evening
[18:46] <Robert_M0RJX> Hey unify
[18:46] <Robert_M0RJX> Upu even
[18:46] <Upu> quack quack :)
[18:46] <Upu> hows the training going ?
[18:46] <Robert_M0RJX> Far too many names on here :-)
[18:46] <Upu> I know
[18:46] <Upu> 105 on a Wednesday evening :/
[18:46] <Robert_M0RJX> Went really well but not actual launch due to WX
[18:46] <Upu> yeah its not been great
[18:47] <Upu> nie enough day today though
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[18:47] <Upu> so are you done now or another day to go ?
[18:48] <Robert_M0RJX> done and done for
[18:49] <Upu> lol
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[19:01] <Laurenceb_> so, no martlet launch?
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[19:38] <griffonbot> @CatnipLightpaw: Space, the final frontier, so I sent the cats there first! thanks to #citc12 & #cusf http://t.co/BtP4diXo [http://twitter.com/CatnipLightpaw/status/197771977367367680]
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[20:12] Action: SpeedEvil removes SpaceX launch from calendar.
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[20:49] <Upu> ping cuddykid
[20:54] <nigelvh> ping someonewhowantstogivemeamilliondollars
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> I want to.
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> As long as someone gives me a billion first.
[20:55] <nigelvh> Alright, you write up the check and mail it to me.
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[20:57] <smrtz> hey guys, I'm doing a balloon as a physics progect, but my teacher needed a ball park number, so I gave him 600grams, is that even close to enough to lift a cheap phone, parashoot, enclosure, homebrew radio transmitter, and light camera?
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> why did he need an estimate?
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> Also - where are you
[20:58] <smrtz> I don't know, he the deadline is comeing up, and he asked, so I spat out a number that seemed reasonable
[20:58] <Upu> 600 grms for what ?
[20:58] <Upu> the balloon ?
[20:59] <Upu> or the weight of the payload ?
[20:59] <smrtz> payload.
[20:59] <Upu> a little under with a camera
[20:59] <smrtz> so 700? were doing something like this
[20:59] <Upu> ~750g for a tracker , camera and bits unless you're really saving weight
[20:59] <Upu> + the phone
[20:59] <smrtz> http://stilldavid.com/blog/2010/07/high-altitude-weather-balloon-project/
[21:00] <smrtz> the phone is going to be used as the tracker
[21:00] <Upu> no radio tracker as well ?
[21:01] <Upu> reason I ask is the phone will stop working long before the maximum altitude is reached
[21:01] <Upu> and if you land outside coverage area
[21:01] <smrtz> no, the transmitter is to broadcast an FM radio signal
[21:01] <Upu> your stuffed
[21:01] <smrtz> as in?
[21:01] <Upu> you won't know where your payload is
[21:02] <smrtz> how so? we were going to be useing Accutracking.com
[21:03] <jonsowman> what if the phone lands outside cell phone coverage?
[21:03] <Upu> it won't work above 5000m as your phone will no longer have coverage
[21:03] <Upu> and if it lands outside of coverage area
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> 5000 is an optimistic guess
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[21:03] <Upu> i.e no signal how are you going to know where it is ?
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> or rather perhaps optimistic
[21:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi
[21:03] <Upu> 5000 is a very optimistic guess
[21:03] <Upu> ping daveake - what height do the cell phone trackers stop working ?
[21:03] <smrtz> oh, then could we use an aurduino instead of a phone to push the location threw to the transmitter?
[21:04] <Upu> evening Brian
[21:04] <Upu> bingo smrtz
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> smrtz: Something like that. Did you say where in the world you were?
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> smrtz: legalities vary
[21:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> what are the output freq for UK repeaters on 2m and 70cm?
[21:04] <smrtz> US, and apparently as long as the payload stayes under 5 pounds its ok
[21:05] <Upu> depends Brian they change http://www.ukrepeater.net/index.html
[21:05] <Randomskk> smrtz: but you need to get the location using something that's not the phone
[21:05] <Randomskk> potentially
[21:05] <Randomskk> most phone gps will cut out at some altitude and may or may not come back nicely
[21:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu thanks
[21:05] <smrtz> anyone have any expereince with a GPS shield for aurduino?
[21:06] <Upu> not used one but you can connect a GPS up to an Arduino and a small radio module and away you go
[21:06] <LazyLeopard> The one near here's allegedly going (or gone) to some weird shift to avoid the Olympic 70cms bandwidth-grab...
[21:06] <Upu> we use the NTX2 over here
[21:06] <MrScienceMan> Upu: cant you use the phone only to find the payload after it lands
[21:06] <MrScienceMan> it should get coverage and gps fix
[21:06] <Upu> MrScienceMan sure if it has a signal
[21:06] <smrtz> nxt2 as the gps?
[21:06] <Upu> no NTX2 is a 10mW 434Mhz transmitter
[21:07] <MrScienceMan> im planing to use a phone as backup for finding the my payload
[21:07] <MrScienceMan> still wondering if its gonna work
[21:07] <Upu> For GPS try a uBLOX 6, if you need to know where ot buy them let me know
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[21:07] <Upu> as a backup great idea MrScienceMan
[21:07] <Upu> as a primary not so good
[21:07] <smrtz> ahh, I was hopeing to go with this one. http://electroschematics.com/2233/low-power-fm-transmitter/ people over at a hamradio channel helped me find it
[21:07] <smrtz> powered by a 9volt
[21:07] <Upu> Yeah RFM22B
[21:07] <Upu> that will work
[21:08] <MrScienceMan> Upu: cant you think of any other alternative for finding the payload?
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> GEnerally a bad plan to make your own transmitter
[21:08] <MrScienceMan> perhaps some setup where it becones and you follow the signal
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[21:08] <SpeedEvil> Especially on illegal frequencies.
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> - you can't legally broadcast at over 30nW in the USA on FM broadcast without a licence.
[21:09] <Upu> MrScienceMan a radio transmitter with a GSM backup should do the job nicely
[21:09] <Morseman> LED RTTY still working :-)
[21:09] <Upu> :)
[21:09] <smrtz> our teacher has an amature radio license, SpeedEvil
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> smrtz: Doesn't mean he can broadcast on FM legally.
[21:10] <smrtz> and for the ublox 6, about $49 accurate?
[21:10] <smrtz> oh, SpeedEvil
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> There are two general approaches. Either you use the APRS packet network on ~140MHz.
[21:10] <Upu> yeah about that smrtz : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> Or you use your own much simpler thing like we do
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> which is just a tiny 433MHz module, and an appropriate good radio
[21:13] <smrtz> SpeedEvil: thanks, I'm looking that up now
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[21:14] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide may or may not be of use
[21:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu dont hear any, but i do on ssb
[21:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu i mean uk stations
[21:14] <Morseman> OZ1SKY_Brian GE
[21:15] <LazyLeopard> Over States-side, byonics.com do an APRS tracker for balloons. Costs a bit, though. http://www.byonics.com/microtrak/mtaio.php
[21:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Morseman hi
[21:16] <Morseman> Mind if I ask you a question offline?
[21:16] <Morseman> If I can remember how...
[21:16] <jonsowman> i've heard good things about the bigredbee aprs tracker
[21:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> offline?
[21:16] <Morseman> DM or whatever they call it on IRC now
[21:17] <jonsowman> http://www.bigredbee.com/blgps_2mhp.htm
[21:17] <jonsowman> (don't get it with the sirf though)
[21:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sure
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[21:18] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Likes the crossed-out pbh record there. ;)
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[21:23] <daveake> Needs more crossing-out :)
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[21:32] <smrtz> would you guys recomend the .650Mhz, or the .075Mhz NXT2 modual?
[21:33] <Randomskk> either
[21:33] <smrtz> ok, how do they differ? as in, when would you want one over the other?
[21:33] <Randomskk> .650 is marginally less likely to hit interference but marginally more likely to annoy some hams on repeaters
[21:33] <Randomskk> but they could do with the excitement
[21:33] <jonsowman> lol
[21:33] <smrtz> ahh, thanks
[21:34] <smrtz> so, .650 it is, haha
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander_> hello again
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander_> hi nigelvh
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[22:00] <Morseman> Windows froze up again
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander_> damn
[22:01] <Morseman> The Arduino carried on TXing LED RTTY though :-)
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
[22:01] <cuddykid> pong Upu
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander_> hey cuddykid
[22:01] <cuddykid> hi Lunar_Lander_ :)
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander_> I got that external battery for my 808 camera
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander_> it survived 7h 17 minutes in that superfreezer at -77°C
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[22:03] <Morseman> For a tiny little board and a rats nest of wires by me to connect the LEDs it seems remarkably imune to crashing
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[22:06] <Lunar_Lander_> hello Dan-K2VOL
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[22:32] <nigelvh> So I suppose your -77 test went well then Lunar?
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander_> yes, the battery seems to have survived
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander_> only I learned that my mosfet is not suitable for arduino as it uses a higher gate voltage
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander_> the one that sparkfun has is OK for arduino use
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander_> but hooking the lipoly to the wire burned the cord in 5 seconds
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander_> btw, sorry that I left so quickly
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[22:36] <Lunar_Lander_> university has some strange new security guard who locks the computer room at about 8:30 pm
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[22:36] <nigelvh> No problem
[22:37] <nigelvh> I figured the LiPo would work fine
[22:37] <nigelvh> Probably reduced capacity though.
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander_> there has been an announcement for the rooms on 1st floor to be locked at 5 pm due to PCs that have been stolen
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander_> but not 3rd floor
[22:37] <nigelvh> Hmm.
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander_> there will be complaints I assume
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[22:37] <nigelvh> The lab I work in stays locked all the time and I just have a key. More convenient.
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander_> or maybe the guy can't read on the door
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander_> "Please NEVER lock this door"
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[22:39] <Nickolai> hey all
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander_> sorry, I am feeling a bit pissed now when I think back to that
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander_> will talk to professors and the main office
[22:40] <nigelvh> No problem
[22:40] <nigelvh> Happens to the best of us.
[22:40] <nigelvh> Glad to hear it's all working though.
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander_> I'll get the other mosfet from sparkfun and repeat the test
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks :)
[22:41] <nigelvh> Do you guys have a local electronics store? The equivalent of radio shack? They ought to have a basic mosfet.
[22:41] <nigelvh> Rather than ordering one from across the pond.
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah, and they sold me the IRFZ44N
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander_: Or you can cheat
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander_> but there is a redistributor of sparkfun around the corner so to speak
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander_> cheat?
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander_: lithium coin cell in series with the gate.
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> Conrad should have stores in germany
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[22:43] <nigelvh> That's a kludge if I ever heard of one.
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah, I mean when I need sparkfun things I order from that one store here
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander_> wait
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander_> http://www.lipoly.de/index.php?main_page=index&language=en&zenid=bhkgi293c7monou6l17o45i6j2
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander_> they are listed by sparkfun as reseller for germany
[22:45] <nigelvh> Handy
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:45] <fsphil-laptop> looks a bit... basic
[22:45] <nigelvh> Also that.
[22:45] <fsphil-laptop> although you can't always go by that
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:45] <nigelvh> Also true
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander_> they have a good service
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander_> if they don't have something they order at SFE and ship it in a second package without extra shipping cost
[22:46] <nigelvh> That's nice.
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander_> *if they don't have something in stock
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander_> but they are like delayed on new things of course
[22:46] <nigelvh> mmhmm
[22:47] <nigelvh> Conveniently, sparkfun is two days post away from my house, so I just order directly.
[22:47] <fsphil-laptop> when ordering more than a few things, its often cheaper to order from them direct
[22:47] <fsphil-laptop> their postage charges to the uk are fairly good
[22:48] <nigelvh> I heart the postage rates for basic USPS within the US. Fast and cheap. I always choose USPS if I have the option.
[22:48] <nigelvh> Often faster than UPS or FedEx
[22:49] <fsphil-laptop> fedex seems the better option to here
[22:49] <nigelvh> Yeah, I don't order many things overseas...
[22:50] <nigelvh> Unless it's ebay. Lots of stuff on ebay is from different countries.
[22:52] <nigelvh> Anyway, time to head home for the day. Have a good one!
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[23:44] <SolarNRG> What's the hottest thing anyone in here has ever melted?
[23:44] <SolarNRG> For me, its Zinc and solder
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[00:00] --- Thu May 3 2012