highaltitude.log.20120501

[00:10] <Lunar_Lander__> still anyone awake?
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander__> hello Dan-K2VOL
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[02:09] <Dan-K2VOL> hi kevin
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[02:22] <Dan-K2VOL> hey darkside
[02:22] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: hi
[02:23] <Dan-K2VOL> where abouts are you located in aus ?
[02:24] <Dan-K2VOL> I just had a nice conversation with a Teamviewer support tech in Adelaide, whom I had to explain our balloon project to, to lift the commercial license violation warning on our white star PCs :-)
[02:24] <Dan-K2VOL> he seemed interested in ballooning :-)
[02:24] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: i'm in adelaide
[02:24] <Darkside> :P
[02:24] <Dan-K2VOL> well I'll be
[02:24] <Dan-K2VOL> do you have a big group there that I could point him to if he's interested any more?
[02:25] <Dan-K2VOL> or is it just you and juxta having fun :-)
[02:26] <Darkside> theres about 7 of us
[02:26] <Darkside> get him to email juxta
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[02:28] <Dan-K2VOL> definitely!
[02:28] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Juxta, would you message me your email?
[02:29] <Darkside> get him to use the project horus website's contact page
[02:30] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds good
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[02:33] <Dan-K2VOL> heh darkside, I do like the caption for one of the Horus 23 pics: "Mark's upload paylink"
[02:34] <Darkside> paylink...
[02:34] <Darkside> i'll fix that
[02:34] <Darkside> fixed
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[02:34] <Dan-K2VOL> Though receiving money from the sky isn't a bad plan!
[02:36] <Dan-K2VOL> you guys are doing a great job documenting things darkside
[02:36] <Dan-K2VOL> been a while since I was on the horus site
[02:38] <Darkside> we try and keep it up to date
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[06:59] <earthshine> Morning
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[10:02] <daveake> Morning Ed. How's Scotland?
[10:02] <jonsowman> martlet launching today?
[10:08] <daveake> Internet operational up there?
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[10:15] <fsphil> depends how far up
[10:20] <gonzo_> is mr jcoxon about?
[10:20] <gonzo_> looking for some advice on pico/foil's
[10:22] <jcoxon> gonzo_, yeah
[10:22] <jcoxon> i'm here
[10:24] <gonzo_> mornin
[10:24] <gonzo_> I was told you were the man to talk to about foils
[10:24] <jcoxon> i know a bit...
[10:24] <gonzo_> I'm looking for some advice on filling, lift and predictions
[10:25] <gonzo_> if there are any docs/guides?
[10:25] <gonzo_> else a stream of noddy questions
[10:25] <jcoxon> not really written down yet
[10:25] <jcoxon> so first of all what are your aims?
[10:26] <gonzo_> we are using a pico as a trainng flight, break us in before we do a latex launch
[10:27] <gonzo_> looking at 2x36" foils, He and the tracker is 54gm
[10:27] <jcoxon> okay
[10:27] <gonzo_> if the predict is for a wet landing, then we will prob try a float
[10:27] <jcoxon> you can use this for doing some calcs
[10:27] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:float1b.xls
[10:28] <jcoxon> so i recommend filling inside
[10:28] <gonzo_> else would not want it to go too far (50km?)
[10:28] <jcoxon> try and get both balloons equal (not an easy job)
[10:28] <jcoxon> if you want to try for float go for 1m/s ascent
[10:29] <jcoxon> otherwise might be worth going for something slightly higher
[10:30] <daveake> For mine I checked the ascent rate roughly by timing the ballons+payload from the bottom of the stairs to the ceiling
[10:31] <gonzo_> hehe, artex=pop!
[10:31] <daveake> Doubt it, but yeah possibly not ideal
[10:31] <gonzo_> if it goes higher, assume there will be a burst of one balloon?
[10:31] <daveake> For lift I tied each balloon to a weight on some sensitive scales, then adjusted one balloon till it matched the other
[10:32] <gonzo_> why is the bsalance important?
[10:32] <daveake> That said, after the irst flight landed in the nearest tree, I didn't take so much time on adjusting the second set
[10:32] <jcoxon> gonzo_, as you said, if one is filled more it'll burst lower
[10:32] <daveake> Because if one is more inflated than the other then that will probably pop first
[10:32] <jcoxon> then you'll lose lift and also get a dead weight of a balloon
[10:33] <daveake> An outcome that seems to be very popular for twin-balloon flights
[10:34] <daveake> Couple of handy hints: don't launch near a tree.
[10:34] <daveake> Oh, and don't launch near a tree.
[10:35] <daveake> I was used to latex flights which by and large go up pretty quickly, and even though I thought I was far enough away from the row of trees and that the wind was in a different direction, I soon had a dose of reality
[10:37] <gonzo_> We have a sports field, so it's rugby posts and lampposts to worry about locally
[10:37] <gonzo_> interesting spreadsheet
[10:37] <gonzo_> how can I predict the asscent speed from the free lift?
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[10:40] <daveake> The other problem I had was finding out where you fill the balloons. The filler tube in the neck is closed when you get them, so it's not entirely obvious, and you need to prod a straw up from just inside the lip of the opening towards the main part of the balloon. Then you can push the balloon onto the cylinder nozzle. It would be too embrassing to tell you how long it took me to figure that out :p
[10:41] <gonzo_> thanks, all tips greatfully rx'e
[10:41] <gonzo_> d
[10:41] <gonzo_> I was thinking of using a pipe for the fill
[10:42] <daveake> I used a small disposable cylinder, which came with a small flexible filler, and that worked fine
[10:42] <Martin100> @daveake thnks for that! that answers a question I was going to ask, i've prodded the hole with blunt objects to try and find out how the 'valve' works.
[10:42] <daveake> Not just me then :D
[10:42] <daveake> When you know, it's easy and obvious. Till then ....
[10:43] <Martin100> A picture guide would be useful as I'm sure I'm going to wreck it when I try it for real
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[10:44] <vk5gr> ping darkside
[10:44] <Darkside> vk5gr: yop
[10:44] <Darkside> yo
[10:44] <vk5gr> evenin
[10:44] <vk5gr> 90 seconds for the launching
[10:44] <vk5gr> ~60secs of chase footage
[10:44] <vk5gr> ~60 secons for two landiungs
[10:44] <Darkside> sounds good
[10:44] <vk5gr> going to put them into three seperate files
[10:44] <Darkside> yep
[10:44] <Darkside> how can i get them?
[10:45] <vk5gr> do you have a drop box somewhere i can use
[10:45] <Darkside> i can give you a ssh account on a vps
[10:45] <Darkside> then you can sftp it up
[10:45] <vk5gr> or io can put them up as three priv movies on vimeo you can download
[10:45] <Darkside> or that
[10:45] <Darkside> that'll probably be easier
[10:45] <vk5gr> ok will do that
[10:45] <vk5gr> you should have them in a couple of hours
[10:45] <vk5gr> mostly its horus 23 with a bit of horus 7 thrown in
[10:45] <Darkside> awesome
[10:46] <Darkside> all good
[10:46] <vk5gr> i forgot how good the horus 7 landing film is
[10:46] <Darkside> hehe yeah
[10:46] <vk5gr> no audio
[10:46] <Darkside> yep
[10:46] <Darkside> i'm currently working out how i can rip 1000km^2 of google sat imagery
[10:46] <vk5gr> 1920x1080 ok or do you want them rendered down to 720p?
[10:46] <Darkside> because i don't like the topo maps of the area we're going to
[10:46] <gonzo_> daveake, would using a t piece on the bottle and two fill pipes, result in equal pressure? if it was a latex I would assume so, but on a foil, with no back pressure from the balloon?
[10:47] <Darkside> 720p is probably sufficient
[10:47] <vk5gr> yes i was thinking that tonight too
[10:47] <Darkside> but either/or
[10:47] <vk5gr> the sat images will be a must i think
[10:47] <Darkside> yep
[10:47] <Darkside> i've got software to rip it
[10:47] <Darkside> but we'll be using up a few IP addresses (getting them banned)
[10:47] <Darkside> the software will generate ozi maps files too
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> Latex will result in one balloon being tiny, one massive
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> the pressure is inversely proportional to the fill volume
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> (ish)
[10:48] <gonzo_> inverse?!
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> It starts out very high, then drops
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> - then rises again a bit just before burst diameter
[10:48] <Darkside> vk5gr: it'll be an interesting navigation excercise, thats for sure
[10:48] <gonzo_> ah, as the elastic in the wall changes
[10:49] <gonzo_> linke having to streach a party balloon before blowing up
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[10:49] <Martin100> I'm just over a month and a bit from my first launch, notam applied for, balloon and chute here, payload sort of working
[10:50] <gonzo_> the original question was can I use a dual fill on foil balloons to get equal fill/lift
[10:50] <gonzo_> or is it safer to fill seperate and test lift of each
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: no.
[10:50] <Martin100> I say working but I can't get any logging to the SD card working despite trying vari9ous libraries, I think there is a clash somewhere with DS1820/ BMP085 code
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: they may fill at different rates, as the envelope expands
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> and unfolds
[10:51] <gonzo_> SpeedEvil, that is what I suspected
[10:51] <gonzo_> as teher is no back pressure to balance them
[10:51] <Martin100> Wish I'd coded in separate files as its a nightmare to unravel
[10:52] <vk5gr> there are tracks out there but they might be on farmers land. almost wish we had more time to try and track down who is out there
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: when they are near-full, it's close to balance.
[10:52] <vk5gr> so we can talk to a couple of them first
[10:52] <gonzo_> what are you storing to SD>
[10:52] <Martin100> I was trying to store the tx buffer string
[10:52] <Darkside> vk5gr: yeah, i have no idea who to talk to
[10:53] <Martin100> I can do it fine in a bare prog with no telemetry
[10:53] <gonzo_> SpeedEvil, rgr that. We may be underinflating so will have to plan for separate fill
[10:53] <Martin100> can't even get the card to init properly when the code is dumped in my main prog
[10:53] <daveake> Martin100 Is this an SD or SDHC card? MicroSD? Is it formatted? Wat library are you currently using? Does everything fail (e.g. getting a dir listing)?
[10:54] <gonzo_> if there are enough receiving sites, you should be able to rely on the telem strings being heard
[10:54] <Darkside> gonzo_: don't say that
[10:54] <Darkside> never ever suggest that someone can rely on other listeners
[10:54] <gonzo_> I'm a fan of ultra simple and reliable for somethuing like a telem tx computer
[10:54] <daveake> Unless you need to log data faster than the telemetry (e.g. accelerometer data to process after) I wouldn't bother with the SD at all
[10:55] <Martin100> it's a 32MB sd card connected to 3.3v aduino pro 328 @8MHz
[10:55] <Darkside> oh wait
[10:55] <Darkside> logging
[10:55] <Darkside> yeah, Martin100 don't bother logging locally
[10:55] <Darkside> just make sure your receive setup is good
[10:55] <daveake> OK so voltages are OK and it's small enough
[10:55] <Darkside> still, its not hard to log
[10:55] <Martin100> I wanted some independent record of strings for later analysis
[10:55] <vk5gr> will drop you a note darkside when the videos are up
[10:56] <gonzo_> Darkside, with the numbers of stations we get at weekends in the UK, I recon we have good coverage
[10:56] <Darkside> vk5gr: thanks
[10:56] <daveake> It's good to have the logs, but if it means spending a lot of time on this when you could be debugging the sh*t out of the rest of the code, I'd go for the latter
[10:56] <Darkside> gonzo_: a chase car listener is required for getting the last few packets
[10:56] <Martin100> I've gone through three different libraries and none work, hence why I think I need to strip out the code and dsiable various bits to debug it
[10:56] <gonzo_> and if it's not rx'ed at descent, you ain't getting the thing back anywway
[10:57] <gonzo_> Darkside, agreed
[10:57] <Martin100> (I say none work, all of them do with a basic sketch)
[10:57] <daveake> If no libraries work, is the thing wired to the correct Arduino pins?
[10:57] <daveake> Oh
[10:57] <daveake> So ... they work in isolation but not with the rest of your code?
[10:58] <Martin100> I think the rest of the code is ok...it's borrowed from one ot two good ukhas sources, yes its just an integration problem
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[10:59] <Martin100> got the pins right, got data logged from arduino and read card ok on pc, i just can;t get it working all as one with the tlemetry code that works (see paylod 'tyke' on tracker, so I know it is ok)
[11:00] <navrac> ping jcoxon
[11:00] <Martin100> I need to print code out in big text on paper and try and understand what is going on. My eyes are crap after a few hours lookign at a screen
[11:04] <Martin100> At the moment I'm using NSS for reading GPS and it works ok but conscious of the fact that it could be hammering the system with interrupts and leading to all sorts of other problems.
[11:04] <daveake> With the full program, can you do *anything* with the SD card? Does the library say it's present? Tell you how many files there are?
[11:05] <Martin100> I can;t even get past the intial init, it just hangs, remove the sd code and the prog runs fine
[11:05] <Martin100> I can read and write in a standalone prog using the same hardware (I'm piggybacking on the shield I've built with gps/bmp085/ntx2/ds1820)
[11:07] <daveake> Is the SD init code the first thing you do? If not does it make any difference if you move it to the start?
[11:08] <Martin100> I've not tried moving it, but it is more or less the first thing the code runs after inital defines. workig on another pc at the moment so can;t recall the library names, but two are from arduino and one from google code
[11:08] <Martin100> the google code one is sdfat 16 or similar, much more compact
[11:09] <Martin100> this one http://code.google.com/p/fat16lib/
[11:09] <daveake> I can't remember which one I used, but it was pretty basic. One possibility is that your program is out of RAM. The SD code is likely to be using quite a bit, and you've got a few other libraries there too.
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[11:10] <Martin100> is there an easy way to check ram usage?
[11:10] <daveake> Possibly, but nNot that I could find.
[11:12] <Martin100> I've had some strange problems whren uploading code too (via usb) when the sd card is installed, pull the card and it is ok, it is as if the sd card is interfering with the serial link despite me not using the 6 pin debug header for upload)
[11:14] <daveake> Strange. Presumably the SD card is on the SPI pins (11,12,13) plus a separate SS line?
[11:14] <jonsowman> avr-size will give you an idea if you can get hold of the .elf
[11:15] <jonsowman> it only finds globally declared vars though, but it's still useful
[11:15] <Martin100> yes, and using pin 10 for SS
[11:16] <daveake> Same as I used then, only difference being this was on a 5V Arduino so I had potential dividers too
[11:18] <Martin100> If I'd coded in a more mudular fashion I think I would have cracked it by now, lesson learnt!, just googling avr size, presumably I need the atmel dev environment for that one ?
[11:19] <jonsowman> i think it's part of avr-binutils
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[11:21] <daveake> Nothing else on the SPI lines?
[11:21] <Martin100> no, nothing
[11:22] <vk5gr> ping darkside
[11:23] <daveake> Well I don't understand why it would interfere with normal USB programming, but aside from that it sounds like you've checked all the usual things, leaving this possible RAM issue.
[11:23] <daveake> I hit that when I added GSM code to my original tracker. That used SoftwareSerial which tipped it over the edge
[11:24] <daveake> In the end I just removed GSM/NSS. I did have SD logging which worked.
[11:25] <Martin100> That is a planned development for the future but I'm happy with the code and hardware at the moment but it needs cold temp testing
[11:26] <Martin100> not sure what temp to go down to, any suggestions?
[11:27] <Martin100> looking for NTX2 drift and NSS not working with GPS (it's a NEO 6)
[11:27] <daveake> Photo payload?
[11:28] <Martin100> Got a Canon A480, maybe an ebay sd card camera too
[11:29] <daveake> Shouldn't get much below zero internally assuming decent insulation. Practically though, use your freezer and if it has a "quick freeze" switch use that.
[11:29] <Martin100> just ordered the foam today, no idea on power usage or heat loss
[11:29] <Matt_soton> ive had hardware serial ports not working with the ublox before
[11:29] <Matt_soton> but then i was on the rc oscillator
[11:29] <Matt_soton> i found lower bauds work while slighty higher ones didnt
[11:30] <Martin100> running payload on nimh for testing but got a stash of energizer lithiums for flight
[11:30] <Martin100> 9600 to gps, 8MHz crystal on arduino
[11:31] <Matt_soton> with temperature the frequency decreases (i think), and itll still work with the gps
[11:31] <Matt_soton> rc decreases with temp
[11:31] <Martin100> (wonders if I can move freezer into garden and fit rf transparent window for a full test)
[11:32] <Matt_soton> stick the antenna out the freezer :P
[11:32] <Matt_soton> tbh the gps will still give you data, itll just have no lock
[11:32] <Martin100> difficult with a sarantel on one of upus breakouts
[11:33] <Matt_soton> do ubloxes still give time after loosing lock?
[11:33] <Martin100> I think they do, at least for a while
[11:35] <Matt_soton> well thatll be enough to work out if it still works?
[11:35] <Martin100> hopefully
[11:36] <daveake> They do indefinitely, IME
[11:36] <Martin100> just powered up payload, will dump it in freezer when I have lock, ziplock bag to stop condensation
[11:40] <Martin100> many thanks for your help daveake/jonsowman/matt_soton (and anyone else I may have missed)
[11:40] <Matt_soton> nm
[11:40] <jonsowman> not a prob :)
[11:45] <daveake> as above
[11:45] <fsphil> ziplock bag might cause condensation
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[11:48] <Martin100> @fsphil I was going to use silica gel inside, is there a better way to low temp test?
[11:49] <Martin100> payload photo http://db.tt/1OAH7lYb
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[12:03] <UpuWork> looks good Martin100
[12:03] <UpuWork> don't use silica gel or hand warmers
[12:03] <UpuWork> did you get that breakout from me ?
[12:04] <Martin100> ok just popped it in, no silica gel, just a ziplock. Surprisingly freezer is transparent to 434MHz,
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> Shielding is hard.
[12:04] <Martin100> Yes Upu, maybe Christmas time (thanks for the freebie!) since bought a max 6 and breakout and a couple of ntx2s from you
[12:04] <UpuWork> ah ok thought I recognised it
[12:05] <UpuWork> was one of the original ones where I forgot to tent the vias :)
[12:05] <UpuWork> expect the NTX2 to drift in frequency and shift
[12:05] <UpuWork> ok afk off to do some soldering
[12:05] <Martin100> yep - freq is allover the place !
[12:06] <daveake> Expected
[12:06] <daveake> The shift will drop too
[12:06] <fsphil> you could almost measure temperature based on the drift
[12:07] <daveake> With the rfm22b, it reacts so fast you could probably plot wind speed or cloud cover :D
[12:07] <Martin100> I'm getting a constant lean as the freq shifts
[12:07] <daveake> yep
[12:08] <Martin100> Payload at abot 10 deg C now
[12:08] <daveake> In one of my flights the insulation was less than minimal, and people tracking had to retune pretty much every packet
[12:08] <Martin100> time ok, GPS holding last position
[12:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] Fw: [amsat-bb] USNA Party Balloon Success!"
[12:09] <Martin100> What freq should I aim to centre the waterfall?
[12:10] <Martin100> (I mean on dl-fldigi)
[12:10] <daveake> Just not too close to either end, especially the lower end
[12:10] <Martin100> 1250Hz ok?
[12:10] <Martin100> sounds musical (ish)
[12:10] <daveake> Yes. So long as it decodes then don't worry
[12:11] <Martin100> Problem with filters presumably if towards ends of speech band?
[12:13] <Martin100> Hit zero deg C, shift is narrowing
[12:15] <Martin100> Down from 350Hz @ 20 deg C to 308Hz at -2
[12:15] <daveake> This is normal
[12:16] <jonsowman> ntx2?
[12:16] <Martin100> Wonder if I might run out of shift (350 was a mistake as I forgot about resistors when changing from 5v to 3.3v for the board)
[12:16] <Martin100> Yes NTX2
[12:16] <jonsowman> mm, yeah they do that
[12:17] <jonsowman> anything that uses crystal pulling will exhibit such effects
[12:17] <Martin100> Seems to have flattened its rate of drift now @ -4 deg C
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[12:19] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Fw: [amsat-bb] USNA Party Balloon Success!"
[12:28] <UpuWork> if anyone needs any 7 core rotator control cable I have lots left over ~ 60m
[12:28] <LazyLeopard> Got yourself a nice shiy az-el rotator now?
[12:28] <LazyLeopard> shiny, even...
[12:28] <UpuWork> yup
[12:28] <UpuWork> in fairness had it since last year
[12:28] <jonsowman> oo, which?
[12:28] <UpuWork> just slowly getting round to fitting it
[12:29] <UpuWork> Yaesu G-5500
[12:29] Action: LazyLeopard suspects some of the contacts in this keyboard are a mite... suspect...
[12:29] <jonsowman> nice
[12:29] <UpuWork> the elevation boom turned up today
[12:29] <UpuWork> some fibre glass pole
[12:29] <UpuWork> got spare of that too
[12:29] <UpuWork> lots of spare :/
[12:30] <fsphil> UpuWork, I may take up up on that offer if you've still got it later in the year
[12:30] <UpuWork> I will have
[12:30] <UpuWork> had to buy 6 meters of the GRP for the boom
[12:31] <UpuWork> going to use about 1.5
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[12:32] <UpuWork> got pretty much everything now
[12:33] <UpuWork> just waiting on some small spade connectors to turn up and I'm good to go
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[12:36] <Martin100> Really surprised at NTX2 drift, loads of drift 20 deg C to zero and then none all the way to -12, shift narrowed to 277Hz
[12:37] <UpuWork> it settles down
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[12:44] <daveake> Ah, UpuPost has arrived :)
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[12:48] <UpuWork> UpuPost is best post
[12:48] <WillDuckworth> hey jonsowman randomskk - martlet's looking good
[12:48] <jonsowman> it's pretty awesome
[12:48] <jonsowman> just fingers crossed everything works
[12:48] <Laurenceb> when is launch?
[12:49] <UpuWork> is that the one with the wonky Sarantel ;)
[12:49] <Laurenceb> is it 2 stage or three?
[12:49] <jonsowman> 2 stage
[12:49] <Laurenceb> cool
[12:49] <jonsowman> launch windows are 2-3pm every day this week
[12:49] <Morseman> I'm obviously doing something wrong with the Arduino...
[12:49] <jonsowman> i've no idea which day it's actually going up on though
[12:49] <Laurenceb> so no launch today then i guess?
[12:49] <Morseman> Anyone know what this means? avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00
[12:49] <UpuWork> yes morse
[12:49] <jonsowman> i assume not Laurenceb, but who knows
[12:49] <Laurenceb> launch from scotland?
[12:50] <jonsowman> Laurenceb: yes, Ben Armine
[12:50] <UpuWork> have you got the GPS on the hardware UART ?
[12:50] <Laurenceb> who is up there?
[12:50] <daveake> +1
[12:50] <Laurenceb> eroomde?
[12:50] <jonsowman> Laurenceb: Ed M and Iain
[12:50] <Laurenceb> ok
[12:50] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] Fw: [amsat-bb] USNA Party Balloon Success!"
[12:50] <UpuWork> if so disconnect GPS TX
[12:50] <UpuWork> they program then reconnect
[12:50] <UpuWork> alternatively use a ICSP programmer
[12:51] <UpuWork> it also means there is no boot loader on , you have the wrong com port connected, you're on the wrong machine (I was Terminal servered in to a PC)
[12:51] <Morseman> What baudrate is the arduino mini pro normally programmed at?
[12:51] <UpuWork> I think they upped it in the latest version
[12:52] <UpuWork> 115k or something ?
[12:52] <UpuWork> not sure
[12:52] <Laurenceb> over 9000
[12:52] <UpuWork> it sorts that out
[12:52] <Morseman> AH, I wonder if I got the right com port? Doh!
[12:53] <WillDuckworth> jonsowman - are those fins cast in that shape or welded then machined? - looking mean pieces of kit
[12:53] <jonsowman> one piece machined
[12:53] <WillDuckworth> nice
[12:53] <jonsowman> £2k worth :)
[12:53] <daveake> <UpuWork> ... you're on the wrong machine (I was Terminal servered in to a PC)
[12:53] <daveake> That's a good one :)
[12:53] <jonsowman> Iain's opinion is that they weren't really worth it
[12:53] <WillDuckworth> blimey
[12:53] <WillDuckworth> you've got them now
[12:53] <jonsowman> but we had a couple of suppliers lined up for cheaper, but then dropped out
[12:53] <jonsowman> so we didn't have much choice
[12:54] <WillDuckworth> blog's looking good - very informative
[12:54] <jonsowman> :)
[12:54] <jonsowman> better than the old website, hehe
[12:55] <jonsowman> i'm hoping to get a text sometime this week saying "it worked"
[12:55] <daveake> lol
[12:56] <jonsowman> i hope Joey works as well
[12:56] <daveake> Might do the same on Saturday ... run live launch video then switch it off 2 seconds after launch
[12:56] <jonsowman> otherwise i shall be shot
[12:56] <daveake> "It worked" then go home
[12:57] <jonsowman> :)
[12:58] [1]Nickle (~Nickle@93-96-143-83.zone4.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:59] <jonsowman> happily, i have an exam to go to
[12:59] <jonsowman> bbl
[13:00] <NigelMoby> good luck jonsowman
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[13:01] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Fw: [amsat-bb] USNA Party Balloon Success!"
[13:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave "Re: [UKHAS] Fw: [amsat-bb] USNA Party Balloon Success!"
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[13:50] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] Launch Announcement: Friday 4th May - Chalgrove"
[13:51] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] Fw: [amsat-bb] USNA Party Balloon Success!"
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[15:59] <Upu> test
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[16:00] <fsphil> pass
[16:00] <fsphil> A+
[16:01] <Upu> super
[16:01] <number10> cheat
[16:01] <NigeyS> D- !
[16:02] <number10> I saw you looking over UpuWorks sholder
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[16:10] <Upu> right a working computer again
[16:10] <Upu> always a bonus
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[16:13] <nigelvh> Morning all
[16:18] <Upu> evening nigelvh
[16:18] <nigelvh> How's life treating you? Code all working? Food being consumed? Still respirating?
[16:19] <Randomskk> hurrah for respiration
[16:19] <nigelvh> It is kinda important...
[16:19] <Randomskk> one of my favourite biological functions
[16:20] <nigelvh> Well, there are some others that are pretty up there on the favorites list, but respirating is kinda necessary for the rest of them.
[16:21] <Randomskk> yup!
[16:22] <nigelvh> By the way, not that I'm (apparently) reaching a very large audience presently, but we've got our balloon launch scheduled for Sat. May 19th.
[16:23] <Upu> I've just found an old sound blaster audigy PCI card which I'm getting working with the radio
[16:23] <number10> the predictor seems to be a little strange between friday and saturday - is it easy to clear the cache?
[16:23] <Randomskk> uhm
[16:23] <Randomskk> I can't remember if caching is a problem any more
[16:23] <Randomskk> but I can try if you like
[16:24] <number10> ground level wind predicted as NE on friday and sat - but predictions after burst on sat look wrong
[16:24] <number10> that would be good if you can Randomskk
[16:24] <Randomskk> I don't have time to investigate fully atm but will clear the cache now
[16:24] <number10> ok I will then run again ta
[16:25] <Randomskk> hmm something very weird's going on with the cache
[16:25] <Randomskk> are you running a prediction right now?
[16:25] <nigelvh> They like to do that sometimes.
[16:26] <number10> no
[16:26] <Randomskk> hmmm
[16:26] <Randomskk> okay
[16:27] <Randomskk> all cleared
[16:27] <number10> thanks
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[16:29] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
[16:29] <nigelvh> Morning
[16:39] <nigelvh> How's the payload coming together there Lunar_Lander_
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander_> ah everything is in the laboratory at the moment, tomorrow I'll try out the lipoly battery on the rig and then put it into that freezer
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[16:40] <nigelvh> Good plan
[16:41] <nigelvh> You missed it before you signed on, but I'm doing a launch on the 19th, so I'll be doing my final testing here shortly as well.
[16:41] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[16:41] <Lunar_Lander_> that is cool
[16:43] <nigelvh> When are you guys launching?
[16:45] <Lunar_Lander_> hopefully this month
[16:46] <nigelvh> Cool
[16:46] <Lunar_Lander_> just wrote to the flight surveillance what data they need
[16:46] <nigelvh> Good plan
[16:46] <nigelvh> Any cool sciencey stuff you're doing on there?
[16:48] <Lunar_Lander_> just meteo sensors for this first flight
[16:48] <Lunar_Lander_> and you?
[16:50] <nigelvh> Well, I'll have int/ext temp, baro pressure, humidity and gps. Some of the students will do light sensors, one group is doing an accellerometer, and there's two doing geiger counters. Whether any of the student projects will work is another matter altogether.
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander_> sounds good
[16:54] <nigelvh> Yeah. Generally speaking these are students with zero experience with electronics, so a good number of their payloads don't actually work. But hey, hopefully they learn something in the process.
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander_> how many flight did you complete so far?
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander_> *flights
[16:59] <nigelvh> I've been participating for four years now. The program has been running for about 10 years. We generally do one trip a year, at which we generally do two balloons. This year we'll just do one balloon.
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[17:05] <Lunar_Lander_> what balloon program is this?
[17:06] <nigelvh> It's a class here at the University of Washington.
[17:07] <nigelvh> I took it four years ago, and since then have volunteered my radio/electronics expertise.
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[17:30] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander_> I think the first university balloon program I found about was the small balloon program of the University of Wyoming
[17:32] <nigelvh> Yeah, we don't really advertise it much (I think we aught to), but we've been doing it for quite a while.
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[17:38] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander_> at wyoming they have those plastic balloons I think
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander_> so not really "small balloons"
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander_> do you have a website?
[17:51] <cuddykid> got paid earlier for my dirty work :D
[17:55] <kokey> dirty work?
[17:56] <cuddykid> helping launch a poster for channel 4
[17:56] <cuddykid> all will be revealed soon :P
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[18:12] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander_> now all the TV stations want balloon flighrs
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander_> *flights
[18:13] <Lunar_Lander_> be back later
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[18:13] <nigelvh> Lunar_Lander_ No, we don't really have a website. I do put a little bit of info on my site though. k7nvh.com and click high altitude balloons at the right.
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[18:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Benjamin Oxley "[UKHAS] University of southampton Physics Outreach Project Launch Announcement"
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[18:35] <SpaceCake> Hello!
[18:36] <SpaceCake> Nobody is there?
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> ni
[18:37] <SpaceCake> Hi, SpeedEvil,
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[18:37] <SpaceCake> can I do a question about a balloon on the space?
[18:38] <Upu> of course
[18:39] <Upu> but before the accuracy police open a can of whoop ass on you balloons don't got into "space"
[18:39] <Upu> just very high
[18:41] <SpaceCake> mh, excuse, I' don't understand what you write means... and google translate vary bad :) (worst me)
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Echo
[18:41] <Upu> whats your native languages SpaceCake ?
[18:41] <SpaceCake> italian :)
[18:42] <Upu> I don't know anyone who speaks italian sorry so keep trying with Google :)
[18:44] <SpaceCake> Nothing problem, so I think you correct me about "space"... I' d like to send the balloon on stratophere (36000 m)
[18:44] <Upu> thats achievable
[18:45] <SpaceCake> one of my problem is understan what is "line load"
[18:45] <SpaceCake> and how can i calculate it?
[18:45] <Upu> ok
[18:45] <Upu> how much does your payload weigh ?
[18:45] <Upu> what sized balloon are you using ?
[18:45] <SpaceCake> 1600 gr
[18:46] <SpaceCake> and it is a Hwoyee balloon
[18:46] <Upu> so your payload weights 1600g ?
[18:46] <SpaceCake> the balloon
[18:46] <Upu> ok
[18:46] <Upu> and how much does your payload weigh ?
[18:46] <SpaceCake> the playload is 1000gr
[18:47] <Upu> ok thats perfect
[18:47] <Upu> http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[18:48] <Upu> that will help you work out how much gas to put in
[18:48] <Upu> aim for 5.5m/s ascent rate
[18:49] <SpaceCake> oh thanks, it's perfect, an other question....
[18:49] <SpaceCake> I see, in the photos
[18:50] <SpaceCake> the balloon is connected throu the parachadute with rope
[18:51] <SpaceCake> but, how I can calculate how is long?
[18:52] <SpaceCake> ehm, is connected through
[18:53] <nigelvh> You want to know how long the rope should be?
[18:53] <SpaceCake> yes :)
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[18:54] <nigelvh> There may be laws about that. Check your local regulations. If there is not any laws, the length does not matter.
[18:55] <SpaceCake> ah, now it's clear!
[18:56] <nigelvh> Good.
[18:57] <SpaceCake> thanks so much! :)
[18:58] <nigelvh> You are welcome.
[18:58] <SpaceCake> bye
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[19:23] <fsphil> online translation. we really do live in the future :)
[19:28] <Elmar_PD3EM> anyone had similar issues?... As soon as I include the wire.h lib the sketch is messing up rtty and keeps looping GPS startup (without SD lib/card wire.h can be used)
[19:29] <nigelvh> They may be using the same interrupts...
[19:29] <nigelvh> Don't know for sure.
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[19:29] <fsphil> yea that sounds like an interrupt problem
[19:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> ok need to solve that...
[19:30] <nigelvh> Depending on the arduino model you have, there are a certain number of interrupt timers. Most of the libraries like to use a select few. For example timer 2.
[19:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'm using an Uno
[19:31] <nigelvh> Yeah, so you've got 0, 1, and 2
[19:31] <nigelvh> The mega adds 3, 4, and 5.
[19:31] <nigelvh> But they're not allocated dynamically. The arduino libraries are hard coded to use a specific one.
[19:31] <nigelvh> For example, millis() and other basic timing functions use timer 0
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[19:32] <nigelvh> timer 2 is commonly used by various libraries.
[19:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> So, I can't manage them myself?s
[19:33] <nigelvh> You can use any timer manually, certainly. If you use a library though, they'll be programmed to use a specific one. If you want the library to use a different one, you'll have to edit the library.
[19:33] <nigelvh> Do keep in mind that if you change any settings on timer 0, you'll mess up timekeeping for things like millis() and delay()
[19:35] <nigelvh> The reason most libraries choose to use timer2 is that it's available on ALL arduino models. If they chose timer 3 or up they'd only work on the megas.
[19:35] <Elmar_PD3EM> How do the settings for interrupts/timers look in the libs?
[19:37] <nigelvh> They're generally the raw registers. If you're doing a search, try a find on TCCR
[19:37] <nigelvh> That will likely be followed by a number to indicate which timer, and then a statement setting it to a value.
[19:38] <jonsowman> TCCR0A and TCCR0B, maybe TCCR0C too
[19:38] <jonsowman> for timer 0
[19:38] <jonsowman> (just to give you things to search for)
[19:38] <nigelvh> I would guess your issue is both libraries want to use timer2
[19:38] <nigelvh> So you'd want TCCR2A and TCCR2B
[19:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> great. gonna look for that
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[19:40] <Elmar_PD3EM> which Arduino's do you use?
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[19:56] <jdtanner> Evening all&anyone out there using dl-fldigi on OSX?
[19:56] <jonsowman> oui
[19:57] <Elmar_PD3EM> not yet..
[19:57] <jdtanner> Perhaps you can help :)
[19:57] <jonsowman> i can try
[19:57] <jonsowman> james is the expert
[19:57] <jonsowman> but ask away
[19:57] <jdtanner> I can;t seem to start it via the HAB script&I'm quite sure it used to start using dl-fldigiHAB
[19:58] <jonsowman> which version?
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[19:58] <jdtanner> it just bounces&3.20.29r115.1
[19:58] <jonsowman> weird
[19:58] <jonsowman> try installing 3.21.blah
[19:59] <fsphil> me, if you fancy sending me an imac :)
[19:59] <jonsowman> https://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/downloads
[19:59] <jonsowman> top one
[19:59] <jdtanner> Ok&I'll give it a go
[19:59] <jdtanner> :)
[20:00] <jonsowman> works fine here on Lion
[20:00] <jonsowman> it might be that 3.20.blah was pre-lion
[20:00] <nigelvh> Elmar_PD3EM: I use a mega, and a duemilanove, as well as homebrew boards with chips from either.
[20:01] <jdtanner> hmm&still doesn;t work :(
[20:01] <jdtanner> just bounces&then doesn;t load
[20:01] <jonsowman> :\
[20:01] <jonsowman> does the normal one work?
[20:02] <jdtanner> Yeah, that oads up fine&just the HAB script doesn;t seem to work
[20:02] <Elmar_PD3EM> tnx nigelvh. Can't find it yet in the libs... Think I need to look again tomorrow (but then earlier ;-) )
[20:03] <jonsowman> jdtanner: hmm
[20:03] <jonsowman> weird
[20:03] <nigelvh> Try just looking for TCCR rather than specifically TCCR2, They may not be using timer 2, That was just my guess.
[20:03] <jdtanner> yep&not sure if there are loads created anywhere
[20:03] <Elmar_PD3EM> but if the interrupts are set in the libs, more should have the same problem... Gonna look into my code as well ;-0
[20:03] <jonsowman> jdtanner: james is the expert
[20:03] <jonsowman> though i don't think anyone else has had that problem
[20:04] <jdtanner> bugger&probably time for a fresh install then :(
[20:07] <nigelvh> Remember that not all libs use timers at all, or if they do, the same timers, so you'd have to run two libs at the same time that use timers, and happen to use the same timers.
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[20:08] <jdtanner> I can see the problem :)
[20:09] <jonsowman> oh go on
[20:09] <jdtanner> I put it in a directory of its own under /Applications i.e. /Applications/dl-fl-digi/blah
[20:09] <jdtanner> but the script is set to run
[20:09] <jonsowman> ah
[20:10] <jdtanner> ./Applications/dl-fldigi.app/Contents/MacOS/dl-fldigi --hab
[20:10] <jonsowman> well that would explain it
[20:10] <jdtanner> doh! :)
[20:10] <jdtanner> that'll teach me to be neat and tidy :)
[20:10] <jonsowman> haha
[20:10] <jdtanner> thanks for the help
[20:10] <jonsowman> np :) at least you have the new version
[20:10] <jonsowman> it's stable even though it's alpha
[20:10] <jdtanner> true!
[20:10] <jonsowman> or at least it's been fine for me
[20:11] <jdtanner> I'll no doubt prove you wrong! :P
[20:11] <jonsowman> haha
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[20:24] <Lunar_Lander_> hello again
[20:33] <nigelvh> howdy
[20:34] <fsphil> hai!
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks
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[20:42] <Lunar_Lander_> hello world altitude record holder
[20:42] <RocketBoy> :-)
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
[20:43] <nigelvh> !*(&%#&*(@
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander_> at least Physics isn't sometimes as complicated as love
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[20:43] <nigelvh> Lunar and RocketBoy sitting in a tree, r e t r e i v i n g.
[20:44] <Hibby> love's dead easy!
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:44] <Hibby> put a ring on it, be affectionate. problem solved
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander_> LOL
[20:44] <nigelvh> Yeah, the ring on it I'm finding out is an important step.
[20:45] Action: Hibby recommends making them your best friend also.
[20:45] <upix> Hibby: I think it's the other way round. First you be affectionate and only then you can put a ring
[20:45] <fsphil> if you place ring on it, and it becomes invisible. you may have bigger problems
[20:46] <Hibby> upix: that is an option, aye
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander_> ohhh
[20:46] <Hibby> I think I did it that way too.
[20:46] <jonsowman> fsphil: if you propose with the One Ring, then that's your own fault tbh
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[20:46] <nigelvh> Probably so...
[20:46] <fsphil> well there is that
[20:46] <nigelvh> Really, do you wanna give that power to her anyway?
[20:47] <nigelvh> They manipulate men enough as is.
[20:48] <fsphil> maybe that's what sauron's problem was. women
[20:48] <nigelvh> Isn't it always?
[20:48] <jonsowman> lol
[20:48] <fsphil> sure he tried to enslave middle earth. but we never hear sauron's side of the story :)
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
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[20:49] <nigelvh> "If the president doesn't do it to his wife, he'll do it to his country"
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander_> ohhh
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[21:05] <Lunar_Lander_> but well
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> never mix up the MOSFET pins
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> otherwise the MOSFET gets really hot and that isn't good
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> daveake, why did you say "welcome to cuddykids world"?
[21:08] <nigelvh> Once I made a 2N2222 explode
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander_> MOSFET?
[21:09] <nigelvh> Popped the front part right off the die.
[21:09] <nigelvh> It's a standard NPN transistor
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander_> ohhh
[21:10] <nigelvh> I might have sunk too much current at 12V through it and it overheated maybe a tidge.
[21:12] <daveake> LL blimey that's a delayed question!
[21:12] <fsphil> lol
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[21:13] <daveake> Our friend once spent a couple of days trying more combinations of connecting his MOSFET to a nichrome wire than I believe are mathematically possible
[21:14] <nigelvh> Well, if you consider different connection points along the nichrome are different resistances, then you could have a nigh infinite number of unique circuits.
[21:14] <daveake> He did better than that
[21:14] <nigelvh> Better than nigh infinite? Impressive.
[21:14] <daveake> beyond
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander_> OHHHH
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander_> but what I knew was
[21:15] <daveake> btw for those planning on tracking the Elsworth flights on Saturday .... they'll have a Lunar_Lander_-esque delay
[21:15] <daveake> To Sunday
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander_> Welcome to Scatman's world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2mRA03dWUI
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander_> oh daveake , why is that?
[21:16] <daveake> Better predictions
[21:16] <daveake> more land less water
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander_> xD yea
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[22:42] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Possible ANU / BUZZ / CLOUD Launch - 5/5/2012"
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[00:00] --- Wed May 2 2012