highaltitude.log.20120426

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[05:50] <Upu> heh we have a project ISH now :)
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[06:36] <fsphil> we do?
[06:41] <earthshine> Mornin'
[06:47] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:Ish
[06:47] <UpuWork> morning
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[06:59] <fsphil> ah, the ishest of launches
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[08:01] <fsphil> nothing like a fire alarm test to wake you up in the morning
[08:05] <gonzo_> not for me, I'm a fire marshall at my place
[08:06] <gonzo_> usualy involved physically ejecting people who want to finish phone calls or find where the left their /m phone
[08:10] <fsphil> yea, some people here are a bit slow at getting going
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[08:11] <gonzo_> What a coincidence, just as I type that, an elaim comes in saying that the fire alarm people are testing the bells this morn.
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[08:11] <gonzo_> email
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[08:12] <edmoore> daveake: Total fail so far this morn- washing machine door won't open. Sigh. Leaving ox shortly but obv won't netherworld at 9.30
[08:12] <edmoore> Wow autocorrect
[08:12] <edmoore> Obv won't be there
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[08:16] <daveake> "netherworld" ... interesting choice of word :D
[08:17] <daveake> So I didn't need to panic quite so much when I couldn't remember where I left the tracker? ;-)
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[08:18] <fsphil> you lost a tracker? that takes effort :)
[08:18] <gonzo_> check the local trees
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[08:18] <daveake> lol
[08:18] <fsphil> haha
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[08:21] <jonsowman> oh freenode.
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[09:54] <fsphil> sods law. Buy 2Tb drive at Argos, very next week Maplin sell same drive for half the price
[09:57] <kokey> haha
[09:57] <kokey> how much does it cost now?
[09:58] <fsphil> £80 from maplin, £150 from argos
[09:59] <fsphil> I needed it in a hurry so ah well :)
[10:03] <kokey> know the feeling
[10:03] <kokey> that's what maplin/argos/pc world is there for
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[10:31] <jdtanner> Hive mind: weather isn't looking too clever for Saturday for our launch from the Peak District (rain & wind). Any thoughts?
[10:32] <navrac> Don't take the risk. OK wait until just before you launch to definatly cancel, but at that time - if in doubt don't
[10:32] <navrac> it is really annoying to have a balloon go after 5 minuts bcause you thought - oh i'll risk it
[10:33] <jdtanner> We've held off from buying the gas, so today is the go/no go decision :(
[10:34] <navrac> well cylinder hire is normally a month isn't it? - how much time on your notam?
[10:34] <jdtanner> This is the last weekend :/
[10:34] <navrac> oh that changes it a bit as if you don't you will have to wait ages for a new notam
[10:35] <jdtanner> We are going to try and push for an extension...but...well you know how difficult these things are. My gut feeling is to call it off and wait until July.
[10:36] <navrac> is this a photo payload? - in which case unless you like pics of clouds, that might be a good choice.
[10:38] <jdtanner> Whilst I love clouds, it is a photo mission primarily, so that is certainly another major consideration.
[10:38] <jdtanner> Just a shame one can't keep hold of a gas cylinder indefinately
[10:39] <daveake> You can, at £7/week or whatever it is they charge
[10:39] <jdtanner> (without paying....)
[10:39] <daveake> :)
[10:40] <jdtanner> :) ... £7 is a bit steep if our next NOTAM is September :P
[10:40] <jdtanner> Well, we will call it after lunch today.
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a small room you don't use that you could keep the helium in?
[10:41] <daveake> I've not had any trouble before adding extra dates to notams
[10:41] <gonzo_> or a balloon!
[10:41] <kokey> is it possible to let someone else launch using your notam?
[10:41] <kokey> <- have no idea about these things
[10:41] <daveake> The notam holder has to be present
[10:41] <daveake> AIUI
[10:41] <jdtanner> Yes, storage isn't a problem...more than enough of that...we are a farm. Well, yes, but if it was ok to launch then we'd launch :)
[10:42] <kokey> is that a problem, or is jdtanner on the isle of islay or something?
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> jdtanner: Have you considered using methane?
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:43] <jdtanner> No...Peak District...which feels like the Isle of Islay sometimes ;) SpeedEvil...I have! :)
[10:43] <jdtanner> I work for local government...so I've even considered hot air :P
[10:44] <kokey> yeah a lot of hot air where you work
[10:44] <UpuWork> ping jdtanner
[10:44] <jdtanner> hi :)
[10:44] <UpuWork> #peaksky :)
[10:44] <jdtanner> k
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Peaksky? We're running out?
[10:45] <kokey> oh, I only read properly now, you have weather issues
[10:45] <daveake> whether issues
[10:45] <gonzo_> Saturday's launch being postponed?
[10:46] <kokey> add an umbrella to the payload
[10:46] <kokey> and some wellies
[10:46] <navrac> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-to-waterproof-absolutely-anything-7679057.html
[10:47] <gonzo_> ah wx probs? Any other launches this weekend?
[10:47] <kokey> perhaps just some wipers on the camera
[10:47] <kokey> there's no rain above the clouds
[10:47] <gonzo_> and water boils off at 10Pa
[10:48] <kokey> too bad one can't get these to float very stable
[10:48] <kokey> doing night time launches with long exposures could give you some brilliant astrophotography
[10:49] <kokey> that said, perhaps you don't need that much to take a shot of the andromeda galaxy
[10:50] <kokey> and it's nearer the north pole/horizon so the balloon won't get in the way
[10:52] <daveake> paylods rotate and swing far too much for slow exposures
[10:53] <kokey> gyros and/or a quadcopter attached will also be too heavy a payload
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[11:05] <SpeedEvil> edmoore did a launch like that.
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> Active stabilisation
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> It's hard.
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[11:12] <cuddykid> is the Whitestar launch happening tomorrow?
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[11:35] <kokey> whitestar?
[11:35] <kokey> haha, what a name
[11:36] <kokey> payload inside of an empty bottle of white star?
[11:37] <x-f> PBH launch in 22 minutes
[11:38] <x-f> they tweeted something about live video previously
[11:39] <fsphil> it keeps reminding of the babylon 5 whitestar
[11:41] <Darkside> haha
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[11:46] <jdtanner> Aftrernoon all.
[11:47] <jdtanner> Bad news I'm afraid regarding PeakSky1
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[11:47] <jdtanner> Due to the terrible weather forecast for Saturday and Sunday this weekend (heavy rain and gales), we have decided to call off our launch for the foreseeable future.
[11:48] <jdtanner> Difficult decision, but one that was made after some serious thought.
[11:49] <jdtanner> I'll notify the mailing list as well. Thanks to everyone that has helped us out so far; PeakSky1 will return!
[11:49] <fsphil> aye, no point launching in bad weather
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[11:54] <NigelMoby> oh I dunno Phil launching Picochu into a thunderstorm turned out ok...lol
[11:55] <cuddykid> jdtanner: you may still be ok - the weather is very erratic - if it can't be a last min decision then you've done the right thing though
[11:55] <griffonbot> Received email: jdtanner "[UKHAS] PeakSky1 - launch postponed"
[11:56] <cuddykid> what's PBH? is that from the Whitestar lot?
[11:56] <Darkside> ugh
[11:56] <jdtanner> cuddykid: We couldn't make a last minute decision as the gas needed to be ordered today :(
[11:56] <Darkside> i'm going to have to write my oen ublox library aren't i
[11:56] <Darkside> if i want all the fancy timepulse stuff implemented
[11:56] <NigelMoby> yup, njoy lol
[11:57] <Darkside> ffff
[11:57] <cuddykid> jdtanner: ahh yes, that's a shame :( hopefully you'll get a good window soon
[11:57] <NigelMoby> lol
[11:57] <fsphil> you love it
[11:57] <Darkside> i'm experimenting with a timestamping system
[11:57] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/pAUul.jpg
[11:57] <jdtanner> Yeah, fingers crossed for the early Summer...probably for the best
[11:58] <Darkside> a switch in front of the receiver, trigtered by the GPS's 1PPS output
[11:59] <fsphil> cuddykid, PBH is like the ultra-secretive, well funded and not nearly as fun version of whitestar
[12:00] <cuddykid> fsphil: ahh I see :P haha - I'm guessing there's no where to track?
[12:00] <fsphil> they'll be on aprs.fi
[12:00] <fsphil> looks like they're going to launch two balloons
[12:03] <UpuWork> PBH meh
[12:03] <UpuWork> project we'll use the amateur community when it suits us but don't expect any thing back
[12:04] <NigelMoby> pbh suck tbh
[12:09] <jdtanner> PBH?
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Pacific Blue Horizon
[12:09] <jdtanner> thx :)
[12:14] <Laurenceb> Darkside: what are we looking at?
[12:16] <Laurenceb> timepulse does something to rf received by dvbt dongle?
[12:17] <fsphil> if the pulse is in the bandwidth of the receiver, you could use it to to align multiple recordings
[12:18] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:18] <fsphil> I'm guessing, I'm not that smart :)
[12:20] <Laurenceb> sounds sane
[12:22] <fsphil> I wonder if you could track a balloon that way, just using the phase of the signal seen from multiple receivers
[12:22] <Randomskk> if only there was some kind of network of transmitters
[12:22] <Randomskk> and you could monitor the phase of their signals
[12:22] <Randomskk> and somehow work out where you were
[12:22] <fsphil> aaaah
[12:22] <daveake> :D
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> I was pondering that earlier
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> using the ebay rubidium clocks
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> To discipline a receiver.
[12:26] <Randomskk> the problem really is that at the end of the day you have one person near the balloon near ground level and want to know actually where it is
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> It would enable 'atto' payloads
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> as in just a buttoncell and a CW transmitter
[12:26] <Darkside> Laurenceb: using it to timestamp a received signal
[12:26] <jdtanner> In a previous job, we've used the 1PPS from GPS to align multiple receivers...which then give a location based on TDOA (time delay on arrival)
[12:27] <Darkside> jdtanner: yep, basically that
[12:27] <Darkside> but i'll be looking at ionospheric channels
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> The above has the advantage over GPS that you can actually do phase counting.
[12:27] <jdtanner> Oh cool...well if you need a hand I've probably got some of my old algorithms :)
[12:27] <Darkside> jdtanner: haha cool
[12:27] <Darkside> i need to get the multiple receiver thing happening first
[12:28] <Darkside> also i'm doing this on HF
[12:28] <Darkside> i'm interested in channel lengths
[12:28] <jdtanner> ISTR it was a PITA :P, but when it worked it was remarkably accurate.
[12:28] <Darkside> ISTR?
[12:28] <jdtanner> i seem to recall
[12:28] <jdtanner> ;)
[12:29] <Darkside> ahh :P
[12:29] <Darkside> well, teh signals i'm looking at are only 10KHz wide
[12:29] <Darkside> so at best i'm going to get 15km range accuracy
[12:30] <jdtanner> :)...we were doing a bit better than that...
[12:30] <Darkside> but tbh at the ranges i'm looking at for most ionospheric paths, 15km accuracy is pretty damn good
[12:30] <jdtanner> but if I explain any more you might guess why we were using it...
[12:30] <jdtanner> ;)
[12:30] <Darkside> i can gues pretty easily
[12:30] <Darkside> since i do something similar as a sport
[12:30] <Darkside> though we don't use TDOA
[12:30] <Darkside> yet
[12:32] <jdtanner> well drop me a line if you need help :)
[12:32] <Darkside> hah
[12:32] <Darkside> what kind of ranges were you working at?
[12:32] <Darkside> and what frequencies
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[12:51] <schofieldau> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-female-to-1394-6-pin-female-adapter-126255 wut
[12:52] <fsphil> does not compute
[12:52] <zyp> nice troll
[12:52] <Darkside> its for some power stugg
[12:52] <Darkside> power stuff
[12:52] <Darkside> but it woudl be fun to leave it lying around a tech lab
[12:53] <schofieldau> doesn't firewire provide 20+ volts?
[12:53] <Darkside> up to, yeah
[12:53] <schofieldau> ah okay
[12:56] <Darkside> it is still a scary cable
[12:56] <Darkside> i'm thinking of getting a few just for fun
[12:56] <Randomskk> not as bad as say http://www.fiftythree.org/etherkiller/img/etherkiller.jpg
[12:57] <zyp> PoE :D
[12:57] <fsphil> hah
[12:57] <Randomskk> yup.. :P
[12:57] <Darkside> oh jeex thats old
[12:57] <Darkside> very very old
[12:58] <Randomskk> yea..
[12:58] <Darkside> i remember the etherkiller page from somethin glike 15 years ago
[12:58] <schofieldau> http://www.facebook.com/groups/dodgytechnicians/
[12:59] <schofieldau> I remember seeing a male-to-male IEC a while ago
[12:59] <schofieldau> and a 3*240V male to 3-phase female
[12:59] <Randomskk> haha
[12:59] <fsphil> I have a male to male mains socket for powering my shed from an inverter
[13:00] <schofieldau> and a brilliant UK-US plug adaptor constructed from two pairs of scissors
[13:00] <schofieldau> fsphil: jesus plug
[13:00] <schofieldau> touch it and you'll see jesus
[13:00] <fsphil> it's got a big red sticker on it and "DON'T USE THIS" written on it
[13:01] <schofieldau> as long as you don't have children around to either not read the sticker or read it and do the exact opposite
[13:01] <fsphil> oh it's locked up and out of reach inside the shed
[13:02] <mfa298> that etherkiller page is missing a killer for thicknet :(
[13:02] <Darkside> didnt thicknet still use BNCs?
[13:03] <mfa298> not the stuff that was here. It had vampire taps with aui transcievers
[13:03] <mfa298> I think it was based on RG8 rather than RG58
[13:04] <fsphil> vampire taps... *googles*
[13:04] <fsphil> cool
[13:05] <fsphil> I thought everyone just used those T-shaped BNC adaptors
[13:07] <daveake> I had one of those fail once when adding a PC to a thin ethernet cable. Took me ages to realise what was wrong
[13:07] <daveake> Damn adapter was shorted internally
[13:07] <schofieldau> haha I love the "powered hub" on the etherkiller page
[13:08] <mfa298> I had to fix 10base2 in a building once. That was fun trying to trace the fault (something had just become disconnected taking out the whole of that cable run)
[13:09] <fsphil> it's well worth just running cat5 to everyone
[13:11] <schofieldau> http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/tools/usb-serial-monitor-lite_ccljd.html that's pretty cool
[13:23] <costyn> hello everyone
[13:25] <Elmar_PD3EM> hey costyn !
[13:26] <gonzo_> (earlier thread about scary leads... I have a few with a 13A mains plug on both ends)
[13:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> the weekend is about to start.. :-)
[13:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> bbl
[13:27] <gonzo_> tomorrow off?
[13:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> yes
[13:27] <gonzo_> you can go right off some people!
[13:27] <gonzo_> (me too! hehe)
[13:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> and monday so a long weekend
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[13:34] <gonzo_> nope, I've gne off him again!
[13:34] <fsphil> ll
[13:34] <fsphil> +o
[13:36] <fsphil> not sure when our next holiday is
[13:36] <pjm> 7th may init?
[13:37] <fsphil> tis indeed
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[14:13] <SamSilver> http://www.fiftythree.org/etherkiller/img/poweredhub-internal.jpg
[14:13] <SamSilver> magic smoke inducer
[14:16] <pjm> love it!
[14:16] <pjm> i particularly like the bus killer
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[14:17] Nick change: Elmar_PD_ -> Elmar_PD3EM_
[14:17] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[14:20] <Elmar_PD3EM_> costyn: still around?
[14:25] <gonzo_> I used to use a fishing rod and car ignition coil for 'quietening' people in the old CB days
[14:29] <fsphil> drastic
[14:30] <kokey> yeah, I prefer the laid back approach of sending the boys over, with triangulation gear and baseball bats
[14:33] <fsphil> my neighbour accidentally trimmed the coax when trimming the hedge...
[14:42] <daveake> Back then I had a rapid CB fan a few doors down from my parent's house. His "rig" interefed with TVs, radios and everything else. So I made the world's worst CB transmitter which, from the noise I could hear coming out of his bedroom window, successfully sat over the entire CB waveband thus rather inhibiting his activities.
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[14:48] <fsphil> I enjoyed the cb while I had it
[14:48] <fsphil> not to many people on it here, just me and my mates
[14:55] <gonzo_> there used to be loads on, was good fun. But late 80's it tailed off.
[14:56] <gonzo_> There was still quite a bit of activity down here in dorset in the mid 90's
[14:56] <gonzo_> but that tailed off be 2000
[14:56] <gonzo_> now it's silent
[14:58] <fsphil> there's a couple of guys still use it here
[14:58] <fsphil> farmers from the sounds of it
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[15:05] <griffonbot> @project_sharp: Our project Presentation is coming up next Monday at 12:00 on campus in 34/4007 with light snacks and refreshments. All are welcome #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/project_sharp/status/195528918730674178]
[15:20] <Laurenceb> fsphil: ooh arrr
[15:20] <nigelvh> Is it pirate day?
[15:21] <Laurenceb> erm no - talk like a farmer day
[15:22] <nigelvh> I recon' I can do some of that too.
[15:22] <nigelvh> Accents don't work well on the internet though.
[15:23] <fsphil> thankfully
[15:24] <nigelvh> My "american" accent gonna be hard to understand?
[15:25] <fsphil> nah, mine :)
[15:25] <nigelvh> I suppose I'll give you that one. Seeing as I'm from the pacific northwest, which is known for having the most understandable accents in america.
[15:26] <nigelvh> That's why lots of news anchors are from here.
[15:26] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with the US accents, except the extreme ones (deep south)
[15:27] <fsphil> if I listened to someone I wouldn't be able to tell where it was from
[15:27] <nigelvh> I like to say that people in the PNW don't really have accents, but that's just because it's what I'm used to and we tend to articulate our words better than some other do.
[15:28] <nigelvh> Though my mother's side is from the south, so I can fall into that sort of accent when I go down there.
[15:29] <nigelvh> Most of the time I do fine with british accents too. It's just when you start using british english words that I lose ya.
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[15:38] <fsphil> you'd love scotland :)
[15:39] <eroomde_> oh god
[15:39] Nick change: eroomde_ -> eroomde
[15:39] <eroomde> coming on the train from gatwick airport a few months ago a pair of russians sat oposite me
[15:39] <eroomde> babbling away in russian
[15:39] <eroomde> i was just listening to the sound, trying to see if i could split up sound into words
[15:40] <eroomde> turns out they were actually glaswegian
[15:40] <fsphil> lol
[15:41] <fsphil> I had a similar experience in england when I was a kid -- friend of cousin was from 'up north'
[15:42] <fsphil> it was just a noise to me
[15:42] <nigelvh> I have a russian friend. She does that speaking thing occasinally. It can be hard to understand.
[15:43] <eroomde> i had a german friend come to visit recently and we went to a pub
[15:43] <eroomde> the barman was a geordie
[15:43] <eroomde> she had absolutely no chance
[15:44] <eroomde> thatll bi nein-pound ee-at-ey-nein
[15:44] <eroomde> (£9.89)
[15:44] <nigelvh> Yeah. I figured that part out. Perhaps it's easier to read than to listen
[15:44] <nigelvh> Also, not sure who a geordie is, but if you take the last e off you have an awesome engineer on a kick ass starship.
[15:45] <eroomde> newcastle
[15:46] <jonsowman> hello
[15:46] <eroomde> hrm not so good
[15:46] <eroomde> they are geordies nigelvh ^
[15:47] <nigelvh> Ok, they seem pretty understandable so far.
[15:48] <eroomde> i think they're aq bit santised for bbc
[15:48] <nigelvh> Probably
[15:53] <nigelvh> Yeah, everything I heard was pretty understandable.
[16:02] <fsphil> you know it's bad when they subtitle it
[16:03] Action: SpeedEvil loves it when a plan comes together.
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> So much chocolate I am having trouble lifting it.
[16:04] <nigelvh> The girl likes to watch a show on tv here called "Swamp People" about people who live in the backwoods deep south. They're constantly being subtitled, She can't understand a damn thing they say, and I understand it just fine. Sometimes she pauses the tivo and asks me for a translation.
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> Small tesco pricing error - http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=253421074 - was priced at the 'per bar' price - 24p.
[16:04] <jonsowman> haha
[16:05] <jonsowman> how many did you buy..?
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> 60
[16:05] <jonsowman> 60 10 packs?
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> Which should do me for a couple of years.
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[16:05] <jonsowman> :O
[16:05] <jonsowman> good lord
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> not of galaxy alone - they had snickers, and a couple of others.
[16:05] <jonsowman> that is a serious amount of chocolate
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[16:05] <nigelvh> You bought 600 candy bars?
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[16:05] <jonsowman> for £15, who wouldn't?
[16:06] <nigelvh> Wow
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> They are the teeny bars - but still.
[16:06] <fsphil> they fixed it then. drat
[16:06] <nigelvh> Still, that's like 300 regular bars.
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Alas, yeah.
[16:06] <fsphil> galaxy is nice chocolate
[16:07] <nigelvh> I'm not familiar with the brand.
[16:07] <nigelvh> You guys and your different brands.
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> I tend to buy monstrous quantities of stuff that is historically cheap, as I figure I'm not going to stop liking coffee, or ...
[16:07] <jonsowman> or chocolate, one hopes
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:07] <jonsowman> still i'm sure you could get rid of them if you had to
[16:08] <jonsowman> probably at some pretty good profit
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> I tend to keep >6mo stock of non-perishables.
[16:08] <nigelvh> Like the $200 stickers on ebay
[16:08] <fsphil> sell them to tesco
[16:08] <jonsowman> fsphil: lol
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> Heh.
[16:08] <jonsowman> still in the tesco carrier bags
[16:08] <eroomde> mouser are heroes
[16:08] <jonsowman> what have they done eroomde?
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Rapid delivery?
[16:09] <jonsowman> i want them to stock 13.58MHz xtals :(
[16:09] <nigelvh> digikey doesn't?
[16:09] <nigelvh> Or is mouser more convenient for you?
[16:09] <jonsowman> digikey don't either
[16:09] <jonsowman> can't find the things anywhere
[16:09] <nigelvh> Hmm.
[16:09] <nigelvh> What are they for?
[16:09] <jonsowman> even though RFID stuff is 13.58MHz, so i would have thought they'd be common
[16:10] <eroomde> ordered some pressure sensors at 3pm on tuesday from mouser in the usa because rs ballsed up
[16:10] <eroomde> and they are here this morning
[16:10] <eroomde> and now they are soldered onto a board
[16:10] <eroomde> only £12 for 36hr shipping from the usa
[16:10] <jonsowman> it's a convenient frequency for a tracker I've got which has a x32 PLL
[16:10] <jonsowman> so 13.58 puts it at about 434.6MHz
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: :)
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Neat!
[16:10] <nigelvh> That's pretty handy.
[16:10] <jonsowman> but can i find them...
[16:11] <nigelvh> So less handy.
[16:11] <jonsowman> heh
[16:11] <jonsowman> it's got a 13.56 on it at the moment, which is pulled with varactors
[16:11] <jonsowman> so it's at 434.000
[16:11] <jonsowman> but still quite noisy, i'd like it in the 434.5 to 434.9 range
[16:12] <jonsowman> (by noisy i mean the band is noisy)
[16:14] <nigelvh> Why would the band do such a thing!?
[16:14] <jonsowman> i know :(
[16:14] <nigelvh> What a jerk.
[16:15] <jonsowman> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Crystek/017304/?qs=VbHzlErGQr4ZGEpvSrX%252buA%3d%3d
[16:15] <jonsowman> best i've found
[16:15] <jonsowman> that gives me 434.150 which is better
[16:16] <nigelvh> Yeah, at least without ordering custom crystals.
[16:16] <jonsowman> yeah that might be the next step
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> Or frac-n synths
[16:17] <eroomde> frac-n synch
[16:17] <nigelvh> Yes, a synth would be another option.
[16:17] <eroomde> a monster made up by stitching leftover electronics components together
[16:17] <jonsowman> yeah, but i'd like to stick to this fixed PLL
[16:17] <eroomde> then blasting them with lightning
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Is that when you render them down to produce oil?
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[18:09] <cuddykid> ping SpeedEvil
[18:10] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: is your tesco mispricing system public (i.e. website)? or is it just for your own eyes :P?!
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[18:44] <Lunar_LanderU> good evening
[18:44] <Lunar_LanderU> a short word on my experiments
[18:45] <Lunar_LanderU> today I again too the NiCr wire at the lab (the 0.2 mm diameter one) and cut off a 4 cm long piece
[18:45] <Lunar_LanderU> it started to glow bright orange at 1.5 V and 2.5 Amps
[18:45] <Lunar_LanderU> and it was able to melt a piece of solder in 5 seconds
[18:45] <Lunar_LanderU> (at 2.5V that was)
[18:47] <Lunar_LanderU> is that good? @daveake, SpeedEvil
[18:47] <Lunar_LanderU> and nigelvh
[18:49] <Lunar_LanderU> well, got to go, let's discuss it later on
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[19:28] <cuddykid> hmm raven aerostar have finally replied to my inquiry about their super pressure balloons
[19:29] <cuddykid> looks like they will only supply - quote "to government, academic or business concerns" "not to amateur radio clubs"
[19:29] <cuddykid> I'll try going down the line it's for Uni :P
[19:30] <cuddykid> want to conduct an economics experiment at high altitude
[19:31] <cuddykid> they're the ones who are working with NASA to develop superpressure balloons
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[19:40] <Laurenceb_> lol
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> economics experiment
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[19:42] <fsphil-laptop> "study to see how expensive a super pressure balloon is"
[19:43] <cuddykid> lol
[19:50] <Upu> HAHA
[19:50] <Upu> oops
[19:50] <Upu> haha
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[19:59] <Laurenceb_> cuddykid: I might be able to help you out
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> depends who is paying for it of course
[19:59] <fsphil-laptop> I wonder why they'd limit their customers
[19:59] <fsphil-laptop> if someone is willing to pay
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> Liability?
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> or hassle
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> dealing with customers can be a pita
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> ain't that the truth :)
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Answering questions takes the same amount of time if you're dealing with one or a thousand.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> I'm pondering throwing out about 2500 books, for that very reason.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> In principle, I can list them on amazon.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> I will probably sell - slowly - 250 or so, for about 500 quid total.
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> But it will take at least 80-100 hours to actually do that.
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> I managed to ship one book to completely the wrong guy.
[20:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "[UKHAS] Launch attempt delayed until May 12"
[20:06] <x-f> heh
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> someone should update the topic
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[20:10] <SpeedEvil> 'ropic
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> argh
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[20:40] <SolarNRG> Skylon will never be built... Discuss
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[20:47] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: Still not satisfied with accuracy of the @ParallaxInc MS5607 pressure sensor..... Need to fix that or use another for my #HAB payload #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/195615158490497025]
[20:53] <SolarNRG> Do you think its possible you could use an "average reading" for your sensor, i.e. taking 10 samples per second, then after 10 cycles add them all together, divide by 10 and get a mean value?
[20:55] <Elmar_PD3EM_> I need to work on the code.... Pressure is getting to high when temperature drops.... ( eg 1070 mbar at -10 °C)
[20:57] <SolarNRG> THought about a loop of nicrome wire around the pressure sensor with a temperature sensor and a microcontroller to regulate the temperature with a hysteresis range of say +10 to +15 degrees?
[20:58] <SolarNRG> This should keep the temperature constant so at least you can accurately measure the pressure
[20:59] <Elmar_PD3EM_> it's a possibility but the sensor should work between -40 and +85 °C
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[21:00] <Elmar_PD3EM_> there's a temperature compensation in the calculation so it looks like I need to work on that...
[21:01] <SolarNRG> I think you might be better off with a separate pressure sensor that is thermoregulated and a separate temperature sensor. The two separately might be cheaper AND more reliable albeit at a greater weight cost
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[21:05] <Elmar_PD3EM_> the specs on the MS5607 looked quite o.k. but calculations of the digital readings are a different thing and also different in a few documents :-(
[21:06] <SolarNRG> What are you working on?
[21:08] <Elmar_PD3EM_> using an Arduino Uno now to build a payload. The Uno might be replaced with a Pro mini in the HAB payload
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[21:10] <SolarNRG> I know Arduino, you're using digital analog conversion, also have you considered that the temperature and pressure differential in the payload may affect resistance?
[21:10] <SolarNRG> analog digital i mean
[21:12] <Elmar_PD3EM_> yes.... the test in the fridge made a huge difference on pressure reading
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[21:14] <SolarNRG> Here's an idea... Put the entire system in the frige, record the result, put the system in the freezer, record the result, have the system at room temperature, record the result. With at least 3 readings, you can plot a very basic curve and work out an ax^2 +bx +c formula approximation. You can then code that into the arduino and it'll take the readings of temperature (x)
[21:16] <Elmar_PD3EM_> thanks! Will try that during the weekend
[21:17] <Elmar_PD3EM_> Also, I will get a BMP085 tomorrow and test that one as well
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[21:18] <Elmar_PD3EM_> I also have some DS18B20's for temperature reading that i'm going to use
[21:20] <SolarNRG> Your task is to work out what a, b and c are
[21:20] <SolarNRG> Those will be global variables in your code
[21:20] <SolarNRG> global constants even
[21:21] <SolarNRG> the x is variable
[21:21] <SolarNRG> y is the pressure
[21:21] <Elmar_PD3EM_> Thanks! have your text copied and saved ;-)
[21:22] <SolarNRG> make sure u write down how cold the fridge is
[21:23] <SolarNRG> and how cold the freezer is and also the temperature of your room
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[21:24] <SolarNRG> You can then solve the a, b and c using substitution and elimination of simultaneous equations
[21:24] <Elmar_PD3EM_> i'll do that
[21:25] <Elmar_PD3EM_> Got to go... it's 11:30 PM. Thanks for your help SolarNRG !
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[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
[21:49] <fsphil-laptop> it's you!
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> it's us!
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> (who are we?
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:50] <fsphil-laptop> I'm just here for the cake
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> actually the song plays in my CD player
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> is nigelvh here too?
[21:51] <SolarNRG> What r ur thoughts on skylon?
[21:52] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'm here.
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, did you read my cutdown test results from about 3 h ago?
[21:52] <nigelvh> Yeah
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
[21:53] <nigelvh> Don't remember the exact numbers though
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> I had a 4 cm long piece of the NiCr this time
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> it glowed orange at 2.5 amps and 1.5 V
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[21:54] <nigelvh> Also, it's really not about what I think. It's about what you've got for power, and how much you can switch. I'd just grab what you're willing to carry in battery weight, and see if it works with that. If it does, then you're set.
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[21:55] <nigelvh> If you're really trying to save weight, run a few tests. Hook up smaller and smaller sets of batteries, till it barely works, then pick a set a bit larger than that for some room.
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> I think my main battery will be 4x Energizer Lithium AA
[21:56] <nigelvh> Don't hook up to your main battery
[21:56] <nigelvh> use a separate battery
[21:56] <fsphil-laptop> good advice
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> that is what I wanted to say
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> I have like that lipoly there, but several weeks ago we established here that they aren't that good
[21:57] <fsphil-laptop> if the battery is low, and you turn on the nichrome, then all goes dead :)
[21:57] <nigelvh> I've used two lithium batteries in series and it worked fine.
[21:57] <nigelvh> But yes, don't use the nichrome on the primary battery, it will suck it down and likely reset your computer.
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> and that is
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> um may I use explicit language?
[21:58] Action: fsphil-laptop hands Lunar_Lander some ***'s
[21:58] <nigelvh> Why the fuck not?
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> FC reset is shit!
[21:58] Action: fsphil-laptop shields Darkside's eyes
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> FC=flight computer
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[21:59] <nigelvh> I had a reset issue on one of my rocket boards.
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:59] <nigelvh> despite being at a 90 degree angle, the launch forces would make the reset button contact, at which point the computer restarted and during said time didn't gather any data.
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:00] <nigelvh> So, in high G applications, remove the reset button.
[22:00] <fsphil-laptop> rockets are a pretty harsh environment for anything
[22:00] <nigelvh> Lesson learned.
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:01] <nigelvh> Anyway, grab some extra batteries, hook it up, see what works. If it does and you're happy with the weight, then that's your answer. Doesn't matter how much power it draws.
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[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> I mean isn't 2.5 amps bad?
[22:02] <nigelvh> Why would it be?
[22:02] <nigelvh> Why does it matter at all?
[22:03] <nigelvh> I don't really think it does. It's a totally separate system. with it's own batteries, and you're only going to use it once. Who cares.
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> that lipoly for instance has 2000 mAh
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> is that good?
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> 2 amps for an hour
[22:04] <nigelvh> You'd run your nichrome for almost an hour off that
[22:05] <nigelvh> *probably* overkill
[22:05] <fsphil-laptop> you'd hope so :)
[22:05] <nigelvh> Try grabbing a few AAs and see if that works
[22:05] <nigelvh> You shouldn't need a lot.
[22:06] <nigelvh> Or perhaps a 9V
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[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the hints
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:11] <nigelvh> A 9V may be pretty close to ideal for you
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:12] <nigelvh> the higher voltage requires less current, small and relatively light, convenient package
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> and the 4 AA for the computer
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:12] <nigelvh> Anyway, give it a try. If it works it works.
[22:12] <nigelvh> I do that all the time. Sometimes it fails, sometimes it doesn't, but you learn stuff.
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> and always write in your lab book
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[22:15] <nigelvh> You can do that if you like. I don't have a lab book.
[22:15] <fsphil-laptop> I just remember them. At least I think I do
[22:16] <nigelvh> Yeah, if I wanted exact numbers or whatnot I'd write it down somewhere, but generally my tests are "did it work?" or "was it bad?" and those are easy enough to remember.
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Can be useful to note your working.
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> I find in a large number of cases, I've come to conclusions, and remembered them, to utterly forget my working, and need to rederive it to actually check that my first derivation was correct
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> thus
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> Lab Books are important
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[22:46] <griffonbot> @MysticRefAleah: #BestBritishBands #UKHas Mumford & Sons, Florence+The Machine, The Beatles, The Clash, The Smiths, The Xx, Bloc Party, Radiohead #USAhasShit [http://twitter.com/MysticRefAleah/status/195645094223822849]
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[22:48] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Sometimes that bot has "moments" ;)
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[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> "Some experts have the opinion that prolonged work on a keyboard can cause injury of arms, hands, neck, back and wrists"
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> "Should you experience weakness, pain or numbness in these areas, consult a doctor"
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> says the underside of my Logitech keyboard
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 27 2012