highaltitude.log.20120425

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[00:36] <WhiteStarMC-43> l
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[00:57] <andym102> Hi, I'm interested in learning about HAB, am new to IRC and seem to have connected, please could someone confirm that i am sending? thanks
[00:57] <Darkside> its working
[00:58] <andym102> ty
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[01:18] <andym102> i'm a complete noob to this stuff but I am learning fast from reading all the great blogs, quite a lot seem to use arduino boards but is anybody considering using a raspberry pi as a flight controller? it would seem to be a great fit for educational purpose too?
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> 'nobody' has Pi as of yet
[01:19] <Darkside> andym102: the raspberry pi is A) overpowered, and B) not really suitable for transmitting telemetry
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> Also - it's really high power
[01:19] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: so says you :P
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> as in ~3W idle
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> For - say - a 10 hour life, that's a really long time
[01:20] <SpeedEvil> err
[01:20] <SpeedEvil> large battery
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[01:22] <andym102> i guess i'm only looking at shorter flight times to start with anyway, as longs as 6xAA lithiums will get me through the flight? interested in point B though about the telemetry?
[01:22] <Darkside> ok
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, there is a UART out
[01:23] <Darkside> so the main point of a flight computer is to transmit location information back to the ground
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> if you can set that to 50hz, you should be OK
[01:23] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: 300 :P
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> then you just plug in a USB GPS
[01:23] <Darkside> ugh
[01:23] <Darkside> more power usage
[01:23] <Darkside> :P
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> and yes
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> the right way is harder.
[01:24] <Darkside> andym102: there's a good reason we all use small microcontroller based boards for our flight computers
[01:24] <Darkside> low power, accurate timing, and reliable
[01:24] <andym102> heh, i got that impression :)
[01:26] <andym102> i already thought that i might have to add a proper UART on a breakout board for the pi for the serial io
[01:27] <andym102> and know i could prob do the same with other lower power microcontrollers, saving weight etc
[01:27] <SpeedEvil> I forget - who flew the gumstix
[01:30] <andym102> raspberry pi's are starting to ship and lots of schools will be getting hold of them soon, at 15 quid a pop for the model A thought it would be neat if they could send them up and do experiments
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[01:49] <andym102> the groundstation radio receiver seems to be the most expensive component I would need, can anyone recommend a starter model I could buy secondhand?
[02:10] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: RT @evil_hitman: @vk5gr great vid and perfect flight. Well done #ProjectHorus [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/194971513240289280]
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[03:53] <Dan-K2VOL> hola
[03:54] <Dan-K2VOL> andym102 you could just get a funcube for $100 usd
[03:55] <Darkside> or use a tv tuner :-)
[03:55] <Darkside> though i'm still thinking some preamplification is going to be necessary
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[06:35] <nosebleedkt_> Good morning !
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[07:01] <nosebleedkt_> I'm looking for a special duct tape..
[07:01] <nosebleedkt_> It has a silver color and I sew it on a HAB video on youtube but i dont remember the url
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[07:03] <nosebleedkt_> Does it have a special name or its the common duct tape?
[07:03] <eroomde> need more info
[07:03] <nosebleedkt_> im struggling to find the video
[07:05] <eroomde> was it reflective silver (like a mirror) or just a silver-grey colour?
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[07:19] <fsphil> or that silver tape with bubbles in it? for insulating pipes I think
[07:20] <fsphil> I would advice against making a payload silver. It will blend into its surroundings
[07:25] <x-f> but it would look so cool!
[07:25] <x-f> so space-y!
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[07:26] <eroomde> paint the payload matt black
[07:26] <eroomde> it'll looks just like space
[07:27] <x-f> too gothic
[07:34] <nosebleedkt_> silver-gray (sorry i had meeting with the boss)
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[07:42] <eroomde> i think you can just guy it
[07:42] <eroomde> gaffa tape
[07:42] <eroomde> eg on the right? http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=gaffa+tape&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&resnum=2&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1366&bih=670&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3614999044786832771&sa=X&ei=3aqXT9feHcfK0QWe3LDsBQ&ved=0CIwBEPICMAE
[07:44] <nosebleedkt_> eee
[07:44] <nosebleedkt_> im still struggling to find the video on youtube
[07:47] <nosebleedkt_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfgOYsWnisk
[07:47] <nosebleedkt_> found it!
[07:51] <eroomde> ah that's just normal silver duct tape
[07:51] <eroomde> most hardware stores in the uk have it
[07:51] <eroomde> i would expect the world too but i haven't sampled enough of the world to confidently make such a claim
[07:51] <nosebleedkt_> so i guess my local hardware store have it too
[07:52] <fsphil> but if they have bright yellow or orange, use that :)
[07:53] <nosebleedkt_> i might use orange like my parachute
[07:53] <nosebleedkt_> :P
[07:53] <nosebleedkt_> but fsphil with silver makes it more space mood :P
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[07:54] <fsphil> I thought that too nosebleedkt_, but I learned the error of my ways when I couldn't spot the box in amongst trees
[07:54] <fsphil> while I was standing directly underneath it
[07:55] <nosebleedkt_> hahahah
[07:55] <nosebleedkt_> so its about visibilty
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[07:56] <fsphil> it's all about visibility
[07:57] <fsphil> you want to be able to see it a good distance away
[07:58] <nosebleedkt_> ok ok you persuaded me :p
[07:58] <nosebleedkt_> I hope I have my new capsule ready this weekend
[07:59] <eroomde> that said, i have managed to get (finally) some olive drab gaffa
[07:59] <eroomde> which is awesome stuff
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[07:59] <fsphil> there is also glow-in-the-dark gaffer tape
[07:59] <fsphil> which would be sweet, esp. if someone found it and didn't know what it was
[08:00] <fsphil> just this glowing box sitting in a field somewhere
[08:01] <x-f> "uh, hello officier, it fell from the space, has radioactive glow" :)
[08:02] <x-f> i'm gonna apply some strips of reflective tape, just in case
[08:03] <eroomde> yeah the retroreflective stuff is a good idea
[08:04] <griffonbot> @EnekoArranz: #habe2 , empieza en cero coma. :) [http://twitter.com/EnekoArranz/status/195060608574570496]
[08:04] <fsphil> can you get retroreflective tape?
[08:04] <eroomde> i think so yes
[08:04] <eroomde> cyclists shops often have it
[08:05] <fsphil> that would be great for searching in the dark
[08:05] <eroomde> for decorative yo cycle
[08:08] <eroomde> Daveake has some on his payloads too
[08:11] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
[08:11] <jonsowman> you pinged last night
[08:13] <eroomde> oh
[08:13] <eroomde> not to worry
[08:13] <eroomde> i was being confused
[08:13] <eroomde> more so than usual
[08:13] <eroomde> i made another 2 of those hbridges and 3 other pcbs yesterday
[08:13] <eroomde> was frazzled by 1am
[08:14] <jonsowman> nice :D
[08:14] <jonsowman> pretty productive
[08:14] <eroomde> it was that
[08:14] <eroomde> exciting that they were just schematics on friday
[08:14] <eroomde> 1WD fab service sent on monday
[08:14] <jonsowman> that's really quick
[08:14] <eroomde> finished tuesday eve
[08:15] <jonsowman> comparable to wombat's fab i think
[08:15] <eroomde> the best part is that you can keep the state in your head
[08:15] <eroomde> which for a commericla project might make the extra cost of 1WD worth it
[08:15] <jonsowman> yeah
[08:16] <eroomde> i think it was £180 for 7 martlet flight computer pcbs 1WD
[08:16] <eroomde> (dnt worry not paid for by cusf)
[08:17] <eroomde> which is not actually a bonkers cost
[08:17] <jcoxon> the top pcb of a spot connect weighs 27..4g
[08:17] <jonsowman> not bad at all given turnaround time
[08:22] <jcoxon> nearly light enough for a pico
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[08:32] <GW8RAK> fsphil, if you need Scotchlite tape let me know. I've got some self adhesive stuff here.
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[08:45] <fsphil> GW8RAK, that the reflective stuff?
[08:45] <GW8RAK> Yes
[08:46] <GW8RAK> Although this is the sealed version so is relatively heavy.
[08:46] <GW8RAK> Also got plain sew on or glue on yourself
[08:49] <fsphil> if it's no trouble, wouldn't mind seeing a little sample of it - see it compared with the florescent yellow I have here
[08:50] <GW8RAK> pm me with your address and I'll stick some in the post
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[10:02] <Martin100> Trying to fill out a payload document and I've got a few queries can anyone help?
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[10:04] <Martin100> Is "LAUNCH LOCATION" a geographic location, Maidenhead Grid, or Lat Long?
[10:05] <fsphil> just a name
[10:05] <jonsowman> text description
[10:05] <jonsowman> damn, 1 second.
[10:05] <Martin100> Is "LAUNCH WINDOW" from now to the end of my NOTAM or just the dates covered by the NOTAM?
[10:05] <jonsowman> it's the window for that particular flight
[10:06] <jonsowman> during that time it will show up in dl-fldigi's 'current' list
[10:06] <jonsowman> if you do another flight, a new doc is created with a new window
[10:06] <Martin100> So if the payload doc is not live then is it still possible to test on the tracker?
[10:07] <jonsowman> i can sandbox the doc for you for testing
[10:07] <Martin100> ok, for launch date and time, if I have multiple options (consecutive weekends) for launch dates and times do I need multiple payload docs even for one flight?
[10:08] <jonsowman> just put the location as one of them
[10:08] <jonsowman> if it changes, someone can change the location for you
[10:08] <fsphil> if you're only launching on one of the weekends then a single doc will do
[10:08] <Martin100> Thanks Jon, just a few more on the fields!
[10:08] <jonsowman> it's one doc per flight, not per payload
[10:09] <Martin100> For the sentence do I need to specify the number of digits in each field, for example battery voltage is in 10mV steps so I transmit 3 digits with no decimal
[10:09] <jonsowman> this should all become a bit more streamlined at some point in time
[10:09] <jonsowman> but people are busy
[10:09] <jonsowman> just put it as custom with a useful name
[10:10] <Martin100> So just "Batt Volts" is enough?
[10:10] <jonsowman> that'll do nicely
[10:10] <Martin100> Similarly with time, if time is formatted as HH:MM:SS do I need to specify the separators and sub-fields in the payload document?
[10:10] <jonsowman> no, hh:mm:ss is the only accepted format
[10:10] <jonsowman> just put the field as 'time', it will understand
[10:10] <Martin100> Is there an accepted convention on how I name fields such as internal and external temperature is it int_temp / ext_temp or temp_int / temp_ext or something else?
[10:10] <jonsowman> probably
[10:10] <jonsowman> put it as one of them and i'll sort it out when i add the doc
[10:11] <jonsowman> or whoever ends up adding it
[10:12] <Martin100> Can I assume that if I test then I will have some confirmation that my crc check and sentence are correct if they are uploaded?
[10:12] <daveake> I can never remember things like int_temp vs temp_int between declaring a variable in a program and then using it a minute later, so I have no chance remembering what I used in my previus flight document :-)
[10:12] <jonsowman> Martin100: it will only appear on the tracker if the parser is happy
[10:12] <Martin100> ie. if they go green then they are ok?
[10:12] <jonsowman> the parser log is here http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[10:13] <jonsowman> getting a 'green' decode in fldigi should be enough in theory
[10:13] <jonsowman> but best to check it's working with the web frontend too
[10:14] <jonsowman> are you WA0TJT by any chance?
[10:14] <Martin100> I've had local decodes in standalone but that doesn;t check anythign does it?
[10:14] <jonsowman> well it shows that your checksum stuff is working
[10:14] <Martin100> No i'm Martin in Yorkshire!
[10:14] <Martin100> Who is WA0TJT?
[10:15] <jonsowman> hmm yes WA0TJT appears to be someone in Kansas City
[10:15] <jonsowman> he's uploading telem to habitat and it's crying because it doesn't know what to do with it
[10:15] <Martin100> Worst I've done is litter a few android tracks over there in the past week!
[10:16] <Martin100> My payload just wipes out the local car alarm fobs :)
[10:16] <jonsowman> yes, had that problem before
[10:16] <jonsowman> got out of the car to find the payload in a field, and my car won't lock
[10:16] <jonsowman> lol
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[10:17] <daveake> Had that for Ava/Cloud. Upu couldn't unlock his car as my payload was still transmitting :)
[10:17] <Martin100> Not bothered about locking, it's a self arming immobiliser after 30 secs or so meaning I can't even drive it away!
[10:17] <fsphil> my 434.075 payload did that :)
[10:17] <daveake> yeah same freq here
[10:17] <fsphil> even blocks the RF mains switches we have
[10:17] <jonsowman> haha
[10:18] <jonsowman> my immobiliser transponder still worked
[10:19] <jonsowman> just as well really
[10:19] <daveake> We have a simple weather station thing. Julie complains that she doesn't know how cold it it outside when I'm testing a payload
[10:21] <fsphil> should figure out the protocol, and have it display -34c
[10:21] <daveake> :)
[10:28] <kokey> anything below 30 is 'freezing' to my girlfriend
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> F, C, or K?
[10:31] <kokey> C
[10:31] <Martin100> On the paylod doc generator it already has altitude defined as an integer, I want to add pressure as an integer but all I can see is float <puzzled> ?
[10:31] <number10> thats that place that does chicken
[10:32] <kokey> no one uses F any more, do they?
[10:32] <fsphil> not here anyway
[10:32] <kokey> I heard in the olden times people used to measure things in feet and stones
[10:32] <jonsowman> Martin100: there's an integer field
[10:33] <Martin100> all i can see are time coordinate float string latitude longitude altitude and temperature
[10:33] <jonsowman> huh, there's definitely an integer one
[10:33] <gonzo_> but ft and lb are still common
[10:33] <jonsowman> how weird
[10:33] <fsphil> yea, the uk is metricish
[10:33] <Martin100> this is in chrome , will try in Firefox
[10:34] <jonsowman> apart from roadsigns
[10:34] <jonsowman> :)
[10:34] <fsphil> metrical
[10:34] <jonsowman> imperimetric
[10:34] <kokey> stones are still common from what I can see
[10:34] <daveake> In Ireland it used to be speed limits in mph and distances in km
[10:34] <kokey> haha
[10:34] <fsphil> hehe, my mum hates measurements in grams
[10:35] <kokey> I grew up with metric, but have to tolerate this miles thing on the road
[10:35] <fsphil> yea, same here
[10:35] <kokey> while filling the car's tank in metric units
[10:35] <kokey> and then people quote fuel economy in mpg
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[10:35] <fsphil> I don't understand the old weights systems too
[10:35] <kokey> I'm more of a l/100km person
[10:36] <kokey> which is a bitch of a conversion
[10:36] <kokey> because gallons aren't even the same between countries
[10:36] <kokey> so google can't even be relied on
[10:36] <Martin100> In FF the integer field is there!
[10:36] <gonzo_> I was born post metric, but so amny of my text books are old or US. And all my tooling in the workshop is imperial
[10:36] <jonsowman> Martin100: pff, don't ask
[10:36] <jonsowman> i find it buggy in chrome as well
[10:37] <gonzo_> (I drink imperial though!)
[10:37] <fsphil> there is something nice sounding about "a pint of ...."
[10:38] <kokey> yeah I prefer to drink by the litre
[10:38] <fsphil> also in songs, "miles" sounds better than "kilometres"
[10:38] <kokey> I thought doing it in metric measurements will make it easier to remember
[10:38] <daveake> Could be worse ... http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/weekly/6Page53.pdf
[10:38] <jonsowman> i would walk 800 kilometres
[10:38] <jonsowman> :\
[10:38] <kokey> but I tend to remember less after a few liters
[10:39] <kokey> ah... google does work for it now
[10:39] <kokey> 38 miles per imperial gallon in liters per 100km
[10:41] <kokey> fsphil: not sure, I remember as a kid there was a car ad where they were singing 'six comma eight liters... every hundred kilometers'
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[10:42] <kokey> "and... I will walk eight hundred and four point six seven two kilometers"
[10:44] <eroomde> intuition fail
[10:44] <eroomde> miles per gallon is an inverse area
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> it's an area
[10:44] <eroomde> i cannot really get a handle on what this represents
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> It's the area of fuel your car would need if it was supplied from a little trough in the road
[10:44] <daveake> I love the silly conversions in news stories "he walked about 30km (18.64 miles)"
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1+mile+per+gallon+in+square+millimeters&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[10:45] <jonsowman> mm precision fail
[10:45] <kokey> when I grew up, we often quoted distances in blocks
[10:46] <kokey> 'oh, that place is about 4 blocks away'
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> It's a small area - 1.5mm diameter or so.
[10:46] <kokey> that's because streets were at 90 degree angles at each other most of the time and about the same distance apart in the same area
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> For a 1MPG vehicle
[10:48] <kokey> 'New Kids on the Block' would be 'New Children on the Closed Shape' in London
[10:49] <kokey> I find it funny that floor sizes are very rarely quotes in property ads in the UK
[10:49] <kokey> at least it's not that hard to approximate between sqft and sqm
[10:50] <kokey> I think if people were used to quoted floor sizes there would be a mad rush of Brits buying property in Berlin
[10:52] <fsphil> -5 points for knowing 'new kids on the block'
[10:53] <Martin100> Could someone please upload a payload doc for me?
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[10:55] <gonzo_> only fizzy beers have litres, flat warm ones are always imperial
[10:56] <kokey> it's funny how people are geared to fit in x pints before 11pm
[10:57] <kokey> change the measurement size or the end time and strange things happen
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[11:00] <gonzo_> usually the gearing seems to end in a fight though, that's before you change the cooefs
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[11:20] <Randomskk> Martin100: probably. could you put it on pastebin.com or similar?
[11:21] <Randomskk> (I can also check it over and make sure all the field names and things are correct ;))
[11:21] <Martin100> Will do
[11:21] <Martin100> Thanks
[11:21] <Martin100> http://pastebin.com/uS6XYtaF
[11:22] <Randomskk> Martin100: when's launch?
[11:22] <Randomskk> likely to be anyway
[11:23] <Randomskk> first option or whatever
[11:23] <Martin100> Just over a month away, still payload testing
[11:23] <Martin100> 2nd June
[11:26] <Randomskk> added
[11:27] <Martin100> Many thanks, is there any guidelines on what I can and can;t do while testing? (I've no intention of testing during launches)
[11:27] <Randomskk> pretty much whatever you want -- your payload should appear in the dl-fldigi menu within five minutes
[11:27] <Randomskk> and then feel free to try uploading telemetry and checking that it appears on spacenear.us
[11:27] <jonsowman> nah, do whatever you like. ask someone if you want the tracker clearing
[11:28] <Randomskk> if you ask on here, people are able to clear it fro the map
[11:28] <Randomskk> yea
[11:28] <jonsowman> that's usually done before launches anyway
[11:28] <Martin100> many thanks Randomskk & jonsowman
[11:28] Action: SpeedEvil orders several stamps.
[11:29] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: yeah i should too
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> There is a cap, which works out at around a grand on the online store.
[11:29] <Martin100> Just added a 'remove before flight jumper' so I'm not permanently transmitting and causing neighbours to call out recovery services :)
[11:30] <Martin100> it's only a 10mW NTX2
[11:43] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:43] <Laurenceb> NTX2s are pretty good at jamming cars
[11:48] <Martin100> Noticed something strange during testing, if I have the waterfall centred on 1500Hzl with no aerial connected on the NTX2 the frequency shifts up by 200Hz when the aerial is connected
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[11:49] <fsphil> your receiver is probably doing that
[11:49] <fsphil> oh wait, I got that backwards
[11:50] <Martin100> Not touching the Rx (AOR AR8000)
[11:50] <fsphil> yea I read you wrong. that's odd
[11:50] <fsphil> I've connected up an ntx2 antenna while it's running a few times, and not noticed it shift
[11:50] <Martin100> it's like shifting freq on the receiver
[11:51] <Martin100> The payload test aerial is a commercial whip from farnell
[11:51] <Martin100> Shift is repeatable and predicable
[11:52] <daveake> Yeah I've seen that
[11:52] <daveake> Can't remember how much but it does move
[11:53] <Martin100> I can grab the aerial or touch the open socket and get no shift at all
[11:54] <Martin100> Payload currently drifting around Siberia, waiting for lock
[11:55] <jonsowman> you should maybe not output a position when the GPS doesn't have a fix
[11:55] <jonsowman> :P
[11:56] <Martin100> Maybe not, lots of tweaks like that to come (hopefully) but I don't want to break what I think just about works!
[11:57] <jonsowman> heh
[11:57] <Martin100> Code is 'borrowed' from all over the place
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[12:00] <Martin100> I've a feeling on a day like today when it's raining buckets I'll be waiting for ages to get lock. I've even resorted to wandering outside before now and a few mins in the open makes a big difference. Other times I get 8 sats on my desk (Neo 6 with a Sarantel)
[12:01] <jonsowman> i found once they've got a lock they're very good at keeping it
[12:01] <jonsowman> but if you're inside it can take a while to get one
[12:01] <jonsowman> esp in nav modes
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[12:02] <Martin100> It's now on the window sill drifting round the pacific acquiring a sun tan
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[13:46] <Laurenceb> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=resistor%20contact%20noise&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CFkQFjAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdcc.ligo.org%2Fpublic%2F0002%2FT0900200%2F001%2Fcurrent_noise.pdf&ei=zPyXT7mnEIqw0QXNtu3gBQ&usg=AFQjCNELohORkodPhFRGcCVkUfrvgjFiCw&cad=rja
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[14:23] <Upu> Anyone got the Ron Jeremey collection?
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[14:25] <fsphil> *googles*
[14:25] <fsphil> no
[14:29] <UpuWork> jsut ignore that
[14:29] <UpuWork> off to sack some employees
[14:29] <UpuWork> left my computer unattended remoted into home and I now have a Ron jeremy back drop wallpaper
[14:30] <gonzo_> an unlocked PC is an invitation
[14:33] <fsphil> lol
[14:34] <fsphil> I always close IRC before leaving the pc unattended
[14:34] <Elwell> indeed. IM Away status is another good one
[14:35] <Elwell> esp with corporate clients like sametime. Colleague had "Off for a blowjob" for 2 days before they spotted / were told
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> I've talked with someone who has been hit on by Ron Jeremy.
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> he is not subtle in his 'seduction' technique.
[14:37] <Elwell> "Hi I'm ron jeremy?"
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> Followed by a boob-grope, and going from there if not actively stopped.
[14:38] <Elwell> and he still has all his teeth? impressed.
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[14:42] <gonzo_> I really wished I'd not googled that at work!
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[14:50] <oh7lzb> My favourite classic is a screenshot of the desktop saved as the wallpaper
[14:51] <oh7lzb> for maximum effect, either (re)move some of the most often needed icons from the view so that the screenshot's version is retained
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[14:54] <oh7lzb> or include some error popup in the screen shot (my favourite said "Unknown error 817." and only had an OK button)
[14:54] <fsphil> we used to do that a school
[14:54] <fsphil> people clicking for ages before figuring out what was going on
[14:55] <fsphil> the best was swapping the monitor with the computer behind it
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[15:10] <kokey> someone on irc once started chatting to me, and described the system I was on
[15:10] <kokey> and I switched sessions, seeing if someone hacked in or something
[15:10] <kokey> and he was describing what I was doing to me on irc
[15:10] <kokey> turned out it was someone at work sitting behind me
[15:11] <kokey> it was funny seeing me panic since I was the unix security expert at the company
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[15:12] <nigelvh> Morning all.
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[15:17] <NigeyS> Dear Friend,
[15:17] <NigeyS> I have a legal business proposal of $30.5Million for you contact me via my private email privateidentity@07168.cn if interested.
[15:17] <NigeyS> rofl
[15:18] <NigeyS> morning nigelvh
[15:18] <nigelvh> How's life?
[15:18] <NigeyS> apparently great as someone in china wants to give me $30m lol
[15:19] <nigelvh> Sounds totally legit to me. You should send them your full name, social security number, and bank details right away!
[15:19] <NigeyS> oh i think so, and without delay! lols!
[15:19] <nigelvh> (or your version of the US SSN)
[15:19] <nigelvh> What do you guys have over there?
[15:20] <NigeyS> national insurance number
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[15:20] <NigeyS> and we used to have Department of social security, think its all changed to department for work and pensions now
[15:21] <nigelvh> Hmm. Frankly, I think everything is a bit too reliant on the SSN. It's like a password when it should just be an ID number. People get that and they can be you. It shouldn't be that easy.
[15:21] <NigeyS> yup, its a bit daft, its used for so much
[15:21] <nigelvh> Oh well. It'd be about impossible to change it now.
[15:25] <kokey> it reminds me, of when the recession hit, and there was an article about toxic women who pretend to love and care but are only after money
[15:26] <nigelvh> That only happens during a recession?
[15:26] <kokey> and that there's a woman, who runs this company, that teaches business people how to spot these toxic women, the course costs £6000
[15:27] <kokey> oh the irony
[15:27] <nigelvh> Life is full of the stuff.
[15:27] <kokey> wire me some money over western union and I'll tell you how not to get scammed
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[17:33] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[17:35] <Lunar_LanderU> just ran some cutdown tests with a lab power supply
[17:35] <Lunar_LanderU> got a Nichrome wire to glow at 9 V and 2.8 amps
[17:36] <Lunar_LanderU> but that seems to be too high for me
[17:37] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe there are ideas about that? what we did is connecting the positive and negative terminal of the PSU to the wire
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Glowing is far above the temp you need to cut plastic string
[17:40] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[17:40] <Lunar_LanderU> 600°C afaik for glowing
[17:42] <Lunar_LanderU> I'll bring the string that I bought from RocketBoy along with my first balloon
[17:42] <Lunar_LanderU> and then try to cut that tomorrow
[17:43] <Lunar_LanderU> actually the wire started to smell like a toaster far earlier
[17:45] <Lunar_LanderU> is that good SpeedEvil ?
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> I mean - you need less power
[17:45] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
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[17:45] <Lunar_LanderU> as far as I know Dan-K2VOL did that with 6V, 4x Energizer Lithium
[17:47] <Lunar_LanderU> and Tim had a 5V afaik
[17:54] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks again SpeedEvil
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[17:55] <Lunar_LanderU> hi daveake
[17:58] <daveake> hi LL*
[17:59] <Lunar_LanderU> were just discussing my results on running a cutdown test
[17:59] <nigelvh> Also depends on the thickness of your wire.
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> that too.
[17:59] <Lunar_LanderU> basically what I asked you about yesterday
[17:59] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[17:59] <Lunar_LanderU> resistance is dependant on thickness and lenghth
[18:00] <nigelvh> I use pretty thin stuff. (26 gauge?)
[18:00] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
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[18:01] <Lunar_LanderU> thing is, when I had a piece of constantan wire, 0.2 mm diameter, current went up to some 5 amps at 1 V
[18:01] <nigelvh> Yeah, that stupid V=IR thing...
[18:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[18:02] <Lunar_LanderU> I think I can't create 5 amps
[18:02] <Lunar_LanderU> well
[18:02] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe talk again later
[18:02] <Lunar_LanderU> time to go home
[18:02] <nigelvh> Are you running a separate battery for it?
[18:02] <Lunar_LanderU> well
[18:02] <Lunar_LanderU> let me think a bit
[18:02] <nigelvh> I would.
[18:02] <Lunar_LanderU> we got those energizer Lithium for the main system
[18:03] <Lunar_LanderU> I also got a Lipoly, 2000 mAh
[18:03] <Lunar_LanderU> 3.7 V afaik
[18:03] <daveake> You need 1A or so from that, to get a small length of wire nicely hot. So you need a bit less than 1 ohm.
[18:03] <nigelvh> 4.2 or so when charged.
[18:04] <daveake> The wire you mention above is much too thick
[18:05] <Lunar_LanderU> but nigelvh said 26 gauge which is about double the thickness I had
[18:05] <daveake> And use a separate battery. Much too much ch
[18:05] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[18:05] <daveake> chance of rebooting your processor if you use the same battery
[18:05] <Lunar_LanderU> lipolys aren't that good, right?
[18:05] <nigelvh> You had a 52 awg wire?
[18:05] <Lunar_LanderU> we had that some time ago
[18:05] <daveake> 26 guage is quite thick too I think. ISTR 32 gauge
[18:05] <Lunar_LanderU> 0.2 mm diameter
[18:06] <Lunar_LanderU> wait, the higher the gauge the thinner?
[18:06] <nigelvh> Yes
[18:06] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[18:06] <daveake> Anyway, whatever the gauge and material, you need a bit less than 1 ohm. You've got much much less
[18:06] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[18:06] <Lunar_LanderU> the one coil said constantan
[18:06] <Lunar_LanderU> and the other NiCr
[18:07] <nigelvh> Anyway, separate battery and some thinner stuff.
[18:07] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[18:08] <Lunar_LanderU> got to run now, sorry
[18:08] <nigelvh> Have fun
[18:08] <Lunar_LanderU> be back on later probably
[18:08] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[18:08] <Lunar_LanderU> cu
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[18:08] <daveake> LEM takeoff
[18:08] <daveake> whoosh
[18:11] Action: SpeedEvil has May 7th on calendar.
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[18:18] <Bob_G8NSV> Hi All
[18:19] <Upu> evening
[18:19] <Bob_G8NSV> hi upu
[18:20] <Bob_G8NSV> definately not solatr balloon weather!!
[18:21] <Bob_G8NSV> evening NigelMoby
[18:22] <Bob_G8NSV> no calls from the army about PicoChu5?
[18:31] <Upu> I suspect a tank squished it
[18:35] <Bob_G8NSV> sadly probably so
[18:36] <daveake> FlatoChu5
[18:36] <Bob_G8NSV> hi dave
[18:37] <daveake> evening Bob :)
[18:37] <Bob_G8NSV> will be having another play with the 790 tom afternoon
[18:37] <daveake> excellent, tvm for your efforts so far :)
[18:38] <Bob_G8NSV> no probs. at least have found the cause of the freq error
[18:38] <Bob_G8NSV> now to fix it!!
[18:40] <daveake> :D
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[18:43] <Bob_G8NSV> will be ordering up another rfm22 at the weekend for my first flight computer. got the breadboard version working fine
[18:43] <Upu> question
[18:43] <Upu> is launching in the rain going to end in a early pop ?
[18:43] <daveake> good question
[18:44] <NigeyS> highly likely
[18:44] <Bob_G8NSV> latex?
[18:44] <NigeyS> as any water on the envelope will freeze
[18:44] <daveake> It's whether it falls off first
[18:44] <Upu> yeah
[18:44] <Upu> ok thx
[18:44] <daveake> But yeah I'd try to avoid it
[18:44] <Bob_G8NSV> the hail at the moment is like bullets so I would guess yes
[18:44] <NigeyS> evening Bob_G8NSV :)
[18:44] <Bob_G8NSV> evening nigey
[18:45] <NigeyS> afk cooking! \o/
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[18:49] <cuddykid> does anyone else experience links on google being unclickable often? I think it usually occurs after using 'back' - so so irritating
[18:50] <cuddykid> and their search as you type feature often freezes for me
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[18:50] <cuddykid> it's either them or I'm in desperate need of a laptop refresh :P
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[19:00] <Laurenceb_> cuddykid: broken javascript disaster
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[19:41] Action: SpeedEvil fights the power.
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> (by abusing tesco by noticing that Snacktime chocolate bars are 24p/each online for a 10-pack)
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> (and online they price match if they can't get it at that price)
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[20:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> good evening all
[20:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> got my payload in the fridge for the first cold test now ;-)
[20:12] <Randomskk> :D
[20:12] <Upu> thats a good step :)
[20:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> indeed :-)
[20:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> temp of the DS18B20 on the bread board is dropping very slowly....
[20:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> and the Parallax MS5607 sensor is giving 1076 hPa and 21 degr C
[20:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> so need to work on that code... far from accurate ;-)
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[20:15] <Randomskk> that or you need to repair your fridge ;P
[20:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha... the food is still frozen
[20:17] <Upu> what you have made is a fridge that knows where it is
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[20:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> LOL... now i need to programm the Arduino that the fridge will order food as soon as stock will drop ;-)
[20:18] <daveake> Beerduino
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> Elmar_PD3EM: http://www.techfortesco.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=iscgporohenai9suohb4u7glk2&board=13.0
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[20:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> nice ;-0
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[20:24] <Elmar_PD3EM> The shift of the mark and space have dropped from 425 to 350 Hz in the fridge
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[20:24] <Elmar_PD3EM> probably the variable resistors....
[20:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> will fixed resistors be better for a steady mark/space shift?
[20:30] <daveake> It's not those; it's the NTX2
[20:31] <daveake> But use fixed resistors anyway
[20:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> thought it was easy for changing shift and freq a bit...
[20:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> but better not do that
[20:32] <daveake> No need.
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[20:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> and have not another launch at the same moment/freq ;-)
[20:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> gonna use fixed resistors for the next fridge test
[20:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> I also need to strip some code off if I want to change from the Arduino Uno to a Pro mini...
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[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> hello again
[20:48] <nigelvh> Howdy
[20:48] <Elmar_PD3EM> Hi LL
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> hi daveake SpeedEvil nigelvh Elmar_PD3EM
[20:49] <nigelvh> How's life?
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander_> it's OK
[20:51] <nigelvh> That's acceptable I suppose. Though answers worth full points include "awesome" "fantastic" and "stupendous"
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander_> I think I figured out that text from "FACEBOOK" is fake
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander_> the text that I got on my cellphone
[20:52] <nigelvh> Not familiar. But OK.
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander_> cause I just found a service that lets you sent anonymous texts
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander_> with senders like "FACEBOOK" "James Bond" or "T-mobile"
[20:53] <nigelvh> mmhmm. What was this text?
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> that I should use the code given in there to log into FB messenger for android
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> I don't have a smartphone
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> and FB doesn't have my phone number
[20:54] <nigelvh> Ah, yeah, probably a fake then.
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander_> and the other site says
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander_> "Zu den derzeit beliebstesten Absendern zählen “FACEBOOK”, “T-Mobile”, “Vodafone”, “James Bond”, “DSDS” und viele weitere kreative Absender :)"
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander_> The currently most used senders are "FACEBOOK" "T-Mobile" "Vodafone" "James Bond" "DSDS" and more creative ideas
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander_> DSDS=Germany's version of american idol
[20:56] <nigelvh> There we go. I was about to say I don't speak/read german.
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:56] <nigelvh> Swedish I might be able to do, but not german.
[20:57] <nigelvh> And I'm really good at pretending to know english.
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> cause, see
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> I noticed pretty soon that like when I use GMail or Youtube, I get a text from England, giving my session code
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> like I log in and then get the text
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> you probably know that option they offer
[20:57] <nigelvh> Yeah
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> and I can see the number
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> +44 and so on
[20:58] <fsphil-laptop> don't think I've ever got a text from another country
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> first one I got was from Raul
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> you surely remember him
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> oh and when I select the call option
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> i.e. when the SMS takes too long, the number begins with +1
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> but then there is a digital voice in german
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> probably they have several languages there
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander_> at google
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> the english language number of a company I phoned a while back (uk telephone number) for some reason was answered by a dutch call system
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:01] <eroomde> when does msl land anyone?
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> "Welkom bij (company name)"
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:01] <eroomde> infact i'm on the internets so i should stop being silly
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> august 23rd I guess er1k757
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> sorry
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> eroomde,
[21:01] <fsphil-laptop> 6th august according to wikipedia
[21:02] <Elmar_PD3EM> talking about google.....
[21:02] <Elmar_PD3EM> type askew as search term in google.....
[21:02] <eroomde> http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/images/spacecraftnow/msl_today2.jpg
[21:02] <eroomde> cool
[21:02] <fsphil-laptop> I loved the spectrum/st.george logo they had recently
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> it's just an insane mission
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> I hope it works
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> THE TIME IS ALMOST THERE
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> well, its half way
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> THE TIME IS HALF-WAY THERE
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> :D
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> although if you count from when the mission was first planned, it's nearly there
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander_> :P
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander_> now comes the question
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[21:04] <Lunar_Lander_> which song did I sing here?
[21:04] <nigelvh> If you count from the beginning of humanity it's practically landed.
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander_> tip: was Keanu Reeve's first movie
[21:04] <eroomde> summer of 69
[21:04] <eroomde> oh no
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> bogus
[21:05] <eroomde> wrong 2-3am club-about-to-close-song
[21:05] <eroomde> livin' on a prayer
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander_> bogus is about right fsphil-laptop !
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> *air guitar*
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> excellent!
[21:05] <eroomde> eneter the dragon on itv4 now
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander_> "In Time" by Robbie Robb from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure!
[21:05] <eroomde> and a large bottle of cobra
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> Lunar_Lander_, they're going to make another one of those
[21:05] Action: Lunar_Lander_ air guitars with fsphil-laptop
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah, it's bodacious!
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> totally
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> I seem to be the only person who preferred the second movie
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[21:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> cul folks....
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> it was like
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> cu Elmar_PD3EM
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> yea they time travelled not that often
[21:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> GN all!
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:06] Action: nigelvh things people are weird.
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> good night Elmar_PD3EM
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[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> well nigelvh
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> TELL ME DOCTOR where are we going this time?
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:07] Action: nigelvh thinks people are REALLY weird.
[21:07] Action: fsphil-laptop really enjoyed these movies when he was a wee lad :)
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> "You may be a king or a little street sweeper, but sooner or later you dance with the reaper"
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander_> I must admit I found it cause my brother played the FPS "KISS Psycho Circus" and it featured "God Gave Rock N Roll To you II" at the end
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander_> and from that I found B&T
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander_> xD yeah fsphil-laptop
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander_> but what accent does he have?
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[21:08] <Lunar_Lander_> it isn't russian I think
[21:11] <fsphil-laptop> made up eastern european probably
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[21:13] Action: fsphil-laptop goes back to hacking :)
[21:14] <eroomde> i forgot how good this film {enter the dragon] is
[21:14] <eroomde> impossibly so
[21:14] <fsphil-laptop> not sure I've seen it
[21:14] <eroomde> it's perfect
[21:14] <eroomde> this is my one night off for about the last 2 week and for the next 2 weeks
[21:14] <eroomde> and there's bloody eneter the dragon
[21:14] <eroomde> god smiles
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander_> and
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander_> Time Travelling Phone Booths!
[21:15] <gonzo_> enter with drag on ?
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[21:20] <jdtanner> Agreed! Don't think! Feeeel!
[21:20] <jdtanner> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d5o8d1kitM
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[21:27] <eroomde> that's what i say to people when we do numerical analysis of rocket test data
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:28] <jdtanner> haha&I used to try and say that to some of my students&but they just looked at me funny&whilst dialing 999
[21:29] <jdtanner> :P
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[21:29] Action: fsphil-laptop concentrates on the finger
[21:30] <jdtanner> oh dear& :P
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> that looks like a good movie, will have to get a copy
[21:30] <jdtanner> Have you never seen it?
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> although if it's on itv, it'll probably be repeated about 100 million times
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> not yet no
[21:30] <jdtanner> Get a copy&it is freaking amazing
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander_> I like how they write "Welcome Back" at the end of the commercials at ITV
[21:30] <jdtanner> a bit dated
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> I don't mind dated
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> as long as its good
[21:31] <jdtanner> Game of Death is good as well...
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[21:31] <Lunar_Lander_> do they still have that commercials with the two bearded guys and the ghostbusters theme playing
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander_> and that "Who you gonna call?"
[21:31] <jdtanner> haven't seen that for a while :)
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander_> yewa
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander_> *yea
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[21:32] <Lunar_Lander_> what service is that btw?
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> some telephone directory thing
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander_> ah ok
[21:32] <jdtanner> yeah, it was the old 'directory enquiries" before it was deregulated
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> I don't know anyone who's used one
[21:35] <eroomde> Rasta Ninjas
[21:35] <eroomde> this films just keeps on giving
[21:35] <jdtanner> you aint seen nuffin yet
[21:35] <jdtanner> ;)
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander_> and in Fight Club they smash that VW car
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> ssh, you're not suppose to talk about that
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander_> oh
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> remember the first rule of fight club
[21:37] <jdtanner> hahaha&you broke the 1st rule
[21:37] <jdtanner> :P
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> and the following two completely unconnected rules
[21:38] <jdtanner> :)
[21:38] <jdtanner> BTW, little known fact, Jackie Chan was in Enter the Dragon
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander_> cool
[21:39] <jdtanner> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hu6NoRR7pg (violence&be warned)
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander_> and Lee Evans was in a Jackie Chan movie
[21:40] <eroomde> the second rule of thermodynamics is
[21:40] <eroomde> you do not talk about thermodynamics
[21:42] <nigelvh> You're talking about thermodynamics...
[21:42] Action: eroomde implodes
[21:43] <nigelvh> I can't say I've seen many people implode when posed with a logical fallacy.
[21:43] <nigelvh> "This statement is a lie"
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> im dont trust the second law of thermodynamics
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGlKoVE-XT0
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> cantilevel with a conductive end in an electric field, oscillating between two contacts under thermal vibration
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander_> Audi QSR is cool!
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> why doesnt a current flow between the two contacts through an external circuit?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander_> (the car from I robot)
[21:44] <nigelvh> Well, we know that Laurenceb_ and fsphil-laptop aren't robots. Or at least have paradox absorbing bumpers.
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> i need to make a scale model of it but a current should flow as it oscillates randomly between the contacts
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> i dont see how its maxwells demon as everything is random
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> sorry ive made the tone serious all of a sudden :P
[21:47] <jdtanner> &yeah, so I love it when Bruce Lee goes "awaaahhhhh" :P
[21:47] <jdtanner> ;)
[21:47] <nigelvh> jdtanner fixed the seriousness for you there Laurenceb_
[21:48] <jdtanner> &sorry&the rain is sending me up the wall
[21:48] <jdtanner> Esp as it is looking more and more likely that we'll have to postpone our launch this weekend :(
[21:48] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: why would that violate 2nd law?
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> lawl
[21:49] <daveake> Where's the drought when you need one?
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: circular argument
[21:49] <jdtanner> Indeed :P
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> you can disprove maxwells demon using information theory
[21:49] <Randomskk> yea
[21:49] <eroomde> demon's probably don't exist
[21:49] <eroomde> there you go ^
[21:49] <nigelvh> "probably"
[21:50] <Randomskk> "demon's"
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> i tried to come up with an "information free" demon
[21:50] <eroomde> whoa i used at apostrophe there
[21:50] <eroomde> when none was needed
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> hence the cantilever thingy
[21:50] <eroomde> information free demon - the people whop work at virgin broadband call centres
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> charge gets transported preferentially against the E field
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> on the tip of the cantilever
[21:51] <Randomskk> oh I see
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> tho im not actually sure this works at macroscale even
[21:52] <Randomskk> surely the charged tip moving through the E field does work
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> i need to build a scale model with some aluminium plates and a 9v battery
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> should pick up on a uA multimeter if i oscillate it fast
[21:52] <Randomskk> then put it on youtube
[21:52] <Randomskk> as proof
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> lmao
[21:52] <Randomskk> record with shaky handcam
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> i can prove it on paper...
[21:52] <Randomskk> breathe heavily in the background too
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> wanted an experiment to prove the macroscale
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> version
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> im still dissapointed anyone thought that flapping wings guy was real
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> could tell from the expression on his face in the first frame ffs
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> tho that probably just tells us how autistic everyone is on the nets
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[21:56] <zyp> you're still going on about that?
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> *silence as everyone frantically builds nano-cantilever capacitors*
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[21:56] <Laurenceb_> zyp: you thought it was real
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> REMEMBER??
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[21:56] <zyp> no, that's not what I said
[21:57] <nigelvh> Unrelated to that fancy stuff, I made a board to stack on my existing balloon telemetry package and support an HX1 and a tone generation chip. YAY APRS on a balloon! https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/?page_id=141
[21:58] <nigelvh> Reason I post the page rather than the image itself is so you can see both images/
[21:58] <zyp> nice 90-degree turns
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> heh.. pcb critics strike
[21:59] <nigelvh> I see one big 90 degree turn
[22:00] <nigelvh> but it's DC and the trace is large.
[22:00] <zyp> which of them? :p
[22:00] <nigelvh> The one big one in the bottom left.
[22:00] <zyp> I'm looking at the pic of the board
[22:00] <zyp> not the screenshot
[22:01] <nigelvh> Oh, that's older
[22:01] <nigelvh> First board I designed.
[22:01] <Randomskk> is that RF trace really a 50 ohm microstrip? :P
[22:01] <nigelvh> Nope
[22:01] <zyp> :p
[22:02] <nigelvh> It's what I call "good enough"
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> way too narrow
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> im guesing
[22:02] <zyp> depends on the thickness of the board
[22:02] <zyp> :p
[22:02] <nigelvh> It's a 50mil trace. And the screenshot doesn't show the ground planes.
[22:02] <Randomskk> depends on the isolation of the top ground plane too
[22:02] <zyp> yep
[22:03] <Randomskk> then agian it might just be short enough
[22:03] <nigelvh> Yeah, it's not very long.
[22:03] <Randomskk> you get maybe 1.5" for free at 434MHz
[22:03] <zyp> my RF prof at uni stated that isolation on same plane should be more than distance to other layer by a factor of 1.5 or so
[22:03] <nigelvh> The whole board is about 2" square
[22:03] <nigelvh> really 1.9 x 2.1
[22:04] <Randomskk> to start being ignorable, sure. you can make waveguides with the top ground plane, alternatively
[22:04] <jdtanner> right, night all
[22:04] <nigelvh> Yeah, I always just make the runs short enough and use a fat trace then ignore it.
[22:05] <nigelvh> If I really cared I have a VNA I could check it on.
[22:05] <Randomskk> jealous :P
[22:05] <zyp> what I did was 2.4GHz and not 434MHz though, so you have more leeway :p
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[22:06] <nigelvh> Randomskk, it's not a professional one, but it does a great job.
[22:06] <nigelvh> http://www.sdr-kits.net/Webshop/products.php?14&cPath=5&osCsid=l7m8kcsdm2u2hh6mkft9dokg75
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[22:06] <nigelvh> 1khz to 1.3GHz
[22:07] <zyp> cute
[22:08] <nigelvh> Got a ham buddy over here who had bought a professional VNA (though a couple generations old), and this does almost as good.
[22:08] <nigelvh> He ended up buying one because this one you can take to the antenna rather than being a boat anchor.
[22:09] <nigelvh> Does fancy things like TDR, a VERY basic spectrum analyzer has been added to the software, and some other neat stuff I'm not smart enough to understand.
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander_> btw to get back to the cutdown
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander_> nigelvh, you think we need a thinner wire still?
[22:09] <nigelvh> If it's drawing too much current, then yes.
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander_> one idea I was givent today was like discharging a supercap across the wire
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander_> but that is too short action, right?
[22:10] <nigelvh> Depends on the resistance and how big your cap is.
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander_> sparkfun has a 10 F as the biggest
[22:11] <nigelvh> I've got no experience to say if that would work or not.
[22:11] <nigelvh> I just use a battery and a relay with my nichrome.
[22:11] <Randomskk> 10F is maybe more than you need
[22:11] <Randomskk> also likely to not be able to discharge very quickly
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander_> as I said, that was carried on to me in the laboratories as an idea
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> I couldn't say if the idea was good
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[22:14] <nigelvh> Randomskk: here's a screenshot on a colinear vertical I measured with my VNA. https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/photo.png
[22:15] <nigelvh> Anyway, it's the most capable one I've seen in an amateur's price range.
[22:16] <Randomskk> oh wow
[22:16] <Randomskk> looks very cool if nothing else :P
[22:16] <Randomskk> haha smith charts make me sad
[22:17] <nigelvh> Yeah, I don't do any calculating with them. I just know that in the center is good.
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander_> oh and then one of the ph.d. people asked why we don't use like the heads of normal matches and ignite those with a spark
[22:17] <Randomskk> silly phds
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:17] <jonsowman> they're just a game of "get to the centre at lowest cost"
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander_> but didn't SHARP do that?
[22:17] <Randomskk> jonsowman: a fun happy game
[22:18] <Randomskk> in which I cannot wait to partake
[22:18] <jonsowman> totally
[22:18] <jonsowman> lol
[22:18] <nigelvh> That and the two sides are your open and short
[22:18] <jonsowman> me neither
[22:18] <Randomskk> say, a week tomorrow
[22:18] <Randomskk> would be a great time
[22:18] <jonsowman> oh.. god
[22:18] <nigelvh> then your up and down is your reactance.
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander_> didn't SHARP like use match heads burning?
[22:18] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander_: I thought they used e-matches (totally different thing) in tubes
[22:18] <nigelvh> Yes, ematches are totally different
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> oh ok
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> cause I thought of one thing
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> if those match heads ignite, there is like a big flame
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> what if the payload is on fire?
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> but then I thought
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> fire isn't possible at 30 km
[22:19] <Randomskk> well you say that
[22:19] <Randomskk> it is
[22:19] <Randomskk> but yes
[22:19] <Randomskk> not without oxidisers :P
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:21] <Randomskk> for instance, some of this
[22:21] <Randomskk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_trifluoride
[22:21] <Randomskk> would probably burn a treat at 30km
[22:21] <Randomskk> in fact we should use some for cutdown
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander_> you surely know HARP?
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander_> the space gun project?
[22:21] <nigelvh> I'm pretty sure normal guns will work in space...
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander_> no, that naval gun on barbados launching high altitude probes
[22:22] <Randomskk> I've heard people argue that normal guns won't work in vacuum
[22:22] <Randomskk> but I wasn't convinced
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander_> they sent up many probes loaded with
[22:22] <nigelvh> I'm pretty certain the powder has it's own oxidizer.
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander_> that stuff they recently fired on five rockets from Wallops
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander_> wait
[22:22] <nigelvh> the initial explosion happens in the sealed cartridge
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander_> Trimethylaluminium
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalous_Transport_Rocket_Experiment
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander_> there it is
[22:23] <Randomskk> nigelvh: yea...
[22:23] <nigelvh> Anyway, space gun battles
[22:23] <nigelvh> It's where it's at.
[22:23] <Randomskk> rad or raddest?
[22:24] <Randomskk> though I guess the momentum thing would be amusing!
[22:24] <nigelvh> Raddershest
[22:24] <nigelvh> Also true
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[22:25] <nigelvh> Just like the fire extinguisher from Wall-E except lethal.
[22:25] <Randomskk> :P
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander_> here
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander_> Randomskk, from your link
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander_> "It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water — with which it reacts explosively."
[22:26] <nigelvh> I wonder if you'd be able to see the bullet burn up in the atmosphere if you shot towards earth.
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander_> why does that sound like Aperture Laboratories?
[22:26] <Randomskk> the perfect cutdown
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[22:26] <Randomskk> and yes, doesn't it just
[22:26] <nigelvh> That sounds exactly like Aperture.
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander_> "It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals — steel, copper, aluminum, etc. — because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminum keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander_> metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes."
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander_> that too!
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[22:27] <nigelvh> "we haven't nailed down exactly what element it is yet, but we do know one thing, it does NOT like the human skeleton"
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:29] Boggle (~Jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:29] <nigelvh> "demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give CAVE JOHNSON lemons! Do you know who I am!? I'm the guy that's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon and burn your house down!"
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> You can actually extract lemon oil from lemon skins.
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> It's quite flammable
[22:30] <Randomskk> meh
[22:30] <andym102> bit busy at the mo, about to make some food
[22:30] <Randomskk> I've got people to set a lemon on fire before
[22:30] <Randomskk> for points
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander_> XD
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> Dry most citrus peel, and then burn it
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> It's quite spectacular
[22:31] <Randomskk> http://cush.soc.srcf.net/previous-lists/scavenger-hunt-list-2011/ the "Portal 2" section
[22:31] <Randomskk> wonder if I have the video anywhere
[22:32] <Randomskk> it was impressive
[22:32] <nigelvh> I heart valve and companion cube
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander_> THANKS FOR RELEASING THE SOUNDTRACK OF PORTAL 2, VALVE!
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander_> :D
[22:34] <nigelvh> That is a trippy soundtrack
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[22:55] <Randomskk> http://www.rsgb.org/news/articlelinks.php?id=0263
[22:55] <Randomskk> yesss
[22:55] Action: Randomskk will be MO0RND for the olympics
[22:55] Action: Randomskk got the NoV just now ;o
[22:58] <Randomskk> yay, got the diamond jubilee one too!
[22:58] <Randomskk> MQ0RND heck yes
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[23:04] <fsphil-laptop> 2O0VIM
[23:04] <fsphil-laptop> that'll be confusing
[23:04] <Randomskk> yup
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[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> hmm.. license number
[23:09] <Randomskk> in your license doc
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> that involves finding it
[23:11] <Randomskk> I keep mine in my handy Documents folder. also dropbox
[23:11] <Randomskk> (but it'l be in your emails from ofcom I imagine)
[23:12] <fsphil-laptop> found it
[23:13] <Randomskk> now you can get all the NoVs :D
[23:14] <fsphil-laptop> applied for both
[23:14] <Randomskk> they appear to make them instantly
[23:14] <Randomskk> I got the emails right away
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> so they are
[23:15] <Randomskk> how excited are you now? 1-10
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> NaN
[23:22] <Randomskk> :P
[23:22] <Randomskk> is that the infinity NaN?
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[23:26] <Lunar_Lander_> whoa, I just listened to Domian on the radio
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander_> I think I told about him already once, that show on 1LIVE radio where everyone can call who wants to talk about stuff, today the topic is "my second life"
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander_> and a man called who drove through africa in 1966 with a VW transporter and two friends from university and he told how they were imprisoned as spies in Congo
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander_> and were sentenced to death the next morning
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander_> but the americans rescued them
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 26 2012