highaltitude.log.20120424

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[01:07] <NigeyS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigeys/7108041357/in/photostream
[01:07] <NigeyS> that yellow looks orange :(
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[01:26] <tstowe> NigeyS...What is it?
[01:26] <NigeyS> thats my ATS rev 2 board
[01:26] <tstowe> ah
[01:27] <tstowe> I'm more into the photographs. I stick to Byonics' MT-300
[01:28] <NigeyS> hehe
[01:28] <NigeyS> why is farnells search so bloody annoying? grrrrrrrr
[01:29] <tstowe> farnells?
[01:29] <NigeyS> http://cpc.farnell.com/
[01:30] <tstowe> oh
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[02:32] <Darkside> its easy once you learn how to use it
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[06:47] <eroomde> fsphil: yes
[06:54] <eroomde> for googling posterity, the reflow controller we got from pcbpool should work with any small oven - it has a learning mode where it calculates the oven's response
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[07:02] <UpuWork> morning
[07:03] <number10> mornin
[07:05] <fsphil> eroomde, ta. although I see they're in ireland - might see if I can get cheap shipping on their oven too
[07:06] <eroomde> cool
[07:06] <eroomde> yeah they're good people
[07:07] <eroomde> very friendly woman on the phone, gently reassuring you into spending more money with her melodic irish lilt
[07:07] <eroomde> the bits for our rocket launch tower arrive today
[07:07] <eroomde> *excitement*
[07:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[07:08] <eroomde> it's an aluminium truss (a few lengths of the stuff they use in theatres) and lots of scaff bar and guy lines
[07:08] <eroomde> the man at the land anchor company said 'er... what's the application?' and when we explained he get very excited
[07:08] <eroomde> and started looking at the blog whilst we were on the phone
[07:08] <Elwell> eroomde: what size (length) rockets you chucking up it?
[07:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
[07:08] <eroomde> http://www.cusf.co.uk/2012/04/martlet-1-2-stage-test-assembly/2-stage_foyer_cropped-2/
[07:09] <SpeedEvil> So a couple of clamps, a guide-rail, a blast protector on the tiles, and a hole in the ceiling?
[07:10] <Elwell> ah not pocket sized then :-)
[07:10] <SpeedEvil> Actually - no - carpet tiles - can just replace.
[07:10] <SpeedEvil> Ablative.
[07:11] <eroomde> iain (holding the rocket there) did wonder out loud how many stories it would get through if we were to light it there
[07:11] <eroomde> storeys (?)
[07:11] <SpeedEvil> :)
[07:15] <eroomde> this is a random q for anyone on here at silly am
[07:15] <eroomde> it's the touchy issue of engineering log books
[07:15] <Elwell> Q - do you have a flight controller in each stage, or just the final one (and some sort of disconnect between the stages on separation?)
[07:15] <eroomde> i'd like a hard cover, spiral wound (so it doesn't take up so much space) ideally lightly gridded notebook with decent smoothish thickish paper
[07:16] <eroomde> Elwell: each stage has a flight computer and tracker
[07:17] <eroomde> they use a mix of accelerometers to detect burn and pressure sensors
[07:17] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/Q8Tu0.jpg
[07:17] <eroomde> 2-stage recovery so it deployes a drogue at apogee and comes down pretty fast until about 1000m ASL where it deploys a main chute
[07:18] <eroomde> 1000m ASL because the biggest mountain in scotland where we're launching within the range is about 750m
[07:18] <SpeedEvil> Also - are you confident of GPS altitude?
[07:18] <eroomde> not using gps for any decision making at all
[07:18] <eroomde> they're just not reliable in rockets
[07:18] <SpeedEvil> K
[07:19] <eroomde> ultimately everything runs off timers once launch is detected
[07:19] <eroomde> that's the backup
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[07:20] <UpuWork> fsphil are you about on Saturday ?
[07:21] <UpuWork> hey Darkside is that for your timing board ? and what went wrong near the antenna looks like the boards been cut :)
[07:22] <Darkside> i had a 0402 pad there that i was going to link, to link pins 8 and 9 as you're meant to do with a passive antenna
[07:22] <Darkside> but it turns out bridging a 0402 pad is really hard
[07:22] <Darkside> so i gave up and bridged the pins on the ublox module
[07:22] <UpuWork> I just linked those with a track
[07:22] <Darkside> yeah, but i want the option to use an active antenna
[07:22] <UpuWork> Sparkfun have a nice solder bridge pad
[07:22] <Darkside> hence the other component footprints there
[07:22] <UpuWork> in their library
[07:22] <Darkside> yeah, will be using that in future
[07:23] <UpuWork> I get it
[07:23] <Darkside> but it works as is, so no matter
[07:23] <UpuWork> yeah
[07:23] <UpuWork> I've almost done my pico
[07:23] <UpuWork> put both power supplies on it
[07:23] <Darkside> so yeah, that board (with a proper NEO-6T module) will be a ~50nS accurate time reference
[07:23] <Darkside> cool, i haven't touched mine since you last saw it
[07:23] <UpuWork> nice you can test it though
[07:24] <UpuWork> I put the boost and the linear on
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[07:24] <UpuWork> only think I've not done is break out additiona GPIO's
[07:25] <UpuWork> and I routed it totally by hand which is a first
[07:25] <UpuWork> only took me 3 hours :)
[07:25] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: you're confident enough in the timers and the drag to have only 250m margin in the chute range?
[07:25] <Darkside> woo
[07:25] <Darkside> always route by hand
[07:25] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: that's worst case
[07:25] <UpuWork> Yes its actually easier just more time consuming
[07:25] <Darkside> heh
[07:25] <eroomde> and on the scale of things likely to go wrong with this rocket.....
[07:25] <Darkside> and it means you're in complete control
[07:25] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Even if it goes abit sideways?
[07:25] <fsphil> UpuWork, unknown yet. I might be at work
[07:25] <eroomde> we only raised the money to make it in jan
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[07:25] <UpuWork> ok its looking like its going north at the moment
[07:26] <UpuWork> whens the launch eroomde ?
[07:26] <UpuWork> or did you already put that
[07:27] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: yeah
[07:28] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: well the main chute is basically just baro
[07:28] <SpeedEvil> I see
[07:28] <eroomde> but stage ignition and drogue deployment is where the timer backups come in
[07:28] <SpeedEvil> yeah - stage ignition probably should be on a timer :)
[07:28] <fsphil> UpuWork, I can track from here as long as I remember to leave everything plugged in :)
[07:28] <eroomde> the 2nd stage will fire x seconds after launch if it hasn't already launched due to detecting burnout of the previous stage
[07:29] <eroomde> etc
[07:29] <UpuWork> I'll remind you :)
[07:29] <eroomde> and launch detect is basically an ellecerometer with a fat low pass filter
[07:29] <eroomde> accelerometer*
[07:31] <fsphil> actually I might take the day off, track from the big hill
[07:31] <SpeedEvil> Fun!
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[07:57] <eroomde> http://www.parabolicarc.com/2012/04/23/nasas-latest-commercial-crew-update/
[07:57] <eroomde> this kind of shit is enough to drive someone to suicide
[07:57] <eroomde> look at that graph
[07:58] <eroomde> trying to make quantitative comparisons in a unit as nebulous as 'milestone'
[08:01] <daveake> I shall achieve many many milestones today. Get up. Make tea. Turn on PC. Make more tea.
[08:01] <gonzo_> 10 make_tea
[08:02] <gonzo_> 20 goto 10
[08:02] <daveake> 15 drink_tea
[08:02] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[08:02] <fsphil> I see a bug in this program
[08:02] <daveake> 17 if bladder-full then ...
[08:02] <daveake> 21 call fix_bug
[08:03] <SpeedEvil> Run result through water purifier, goto 10
[08:03] <gonzo_> hung up in a loop, or caught out on the hop!
[08:05] <gonzo_> there is also the conditional for when the phone rings, let tea go cold. Sip tea, go blehhhh...
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[08:07] <fsphil> live is not basic
[08:07] <fsphil> thankfully :)
[08:08] <gonzo_> it'sa not that structured!
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[11:39] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] PicoChu-5 Launch Announcement"
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[12:19] <cuddykid> need to file for more permission I think :D
[12:20] <cuddykid> early June seems a good time
[12:20] <cuddykid> has anyone done a double balloon launch recently? Been thinking about plausibility, seems to me to probably end in a float/slow descent?
[12:21] <UpuWork> hey cuddykid
[12:21] <UpuWork> did you work out what was up with that GPS ?
[12:21] <cuddykid> Hi UpuWork :)
[12:21] <cuddykid> UpuWork: not yet, still sitting in it's box, will check when I get a mo
[12:22] <UpuWork> ok thx
[12:23] <cuddykid> I'll implement a "check if airborne mode set, if not, send command, loop again"
[12:23] <UpuWork> ok thanks
[12:23] <UpuWork> it came back on below 12km didn't it ?
[12:23] <cuddykid> UpuWork: above 12km aswell
[12:23] <cuddykid> but just not altitude
[12:23] <UpuWork> how much above ?
[12:23] <cuddykid> it was all over the place
[12:23] <cuddykid> right up until burst
[12:23] <cuddykid> so up to 30km ish
[12:24] <UpuWork> wierd
[12:24] <cuddykid> yeah, I think it might be the chips reception
[12:24] <UpuWork> check the antenna carefully if it looks damaged I'll replace it
[12:24] <UpuWork> was a chip scale one ?
[12:24] <cuddykid> in testing it sometimes took 30+ mins to get lock
[12:24] <cuddykid> UpuWork: yep
[12:24] <cuddykid> thanks :)
[12:24] <UpuWork> send it back
[12:24] <UpuWork> I'll check it out
[12:25] <cuddykid> I'll run the code again and do some more tests and if that doesn't work I'll ship it up :)
[12:25] <cuddykid> does anyone know what NMEA strings tinygps needs for alt/lat/lon?
[12:26] <cuddykid> as GLL, GSA, GSV and RMC were turned off
[12:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> GAA?
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[12:28] <NigelMoby> it only needs gga
[12:29] <cuddykid> rules that out then
[12:31] <WillDuckworth> hey cuddykid - i find sometimes tinygps takes quite some time to get an altitude
[12:31] <WillDuckworth> even though it's in the nmea strings
[12:31] <WillDuckworth> dunno why
[12:31] <cuddykid> Hi Will :)
[12:31] <cuddykid> odd that, however, this time it was ridiculous! :P
[12:31] <fsphil> if tinygps was requiring strings that where not being sent, then it would never have worked
[12:32] <cuddykid> used tinygps before with lassen with not too many probs
[12:32] <WillDuckworth> was the ant the helical or chip?
[12:32] <cuddykid> this ant was chip
[12:32] <cuddykid> I think it might have been the problem
[12:32] <cuddykid> reception issue
[12:33] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: are you flying a uBlox next?
[12:33] <NigelMoby> hmm I've used the chip on 2 picos, both times its been under a lot of Gaffa tape and its reception has been fine.
[12:33] <WillDuckworth> might as well get the upu special on the go.....
[12:34] <cuddykid> haha :D
[12:34] <cuddykid> it's so tiny!
[12:34] <cuddykid> and lightweight
[12:34] <cuddykid> v pleased with the rfm
[12:34] <UpuWork> I think navrac has flown them and no issue
[12:35] <cuddykid> yeah, and daveake
[12:35] <NigelMoby> gremlins!
[12:36] <gonzo__> I'm amazed how well these ublox's work. Even with that tine chip ant.
[12:37] <gonzo__> they get a sat lock from cold even deep in the depths of my house
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[12:37] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[12:37] <gonzo__> (sat lock = getting time. The full ephemeris needs a bit more sight of sky)
[12:43] <zyp> I should get around to testing the antenova on my board
[12:44] <daveake> I've flown a chip antenna twice - pico and latex. Been fine.
[12:45] <daveake> Slow to get a lock at home but only the helical antenna seems unperturbed by my gps zone of silence
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[13:04] <fsphil> hmm, PBH doing a live stream. that's unusual
[13:05] <Darkside> they're launching now?
[13:05] <Darkside> oh, 2 days away
[13:07] <fsphil> yea- launching more than one 'vehicle'
[13:09] <UpuWork> meh
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[13:24] <cuddykid> is friday the big day still?
[13:24] <jdtanner> For us? (sorry...no chat history on my phone)
[13:25] <cuddykid> well the HAB community :P
[13:25] <cuddykid> with WhiteStar's trans atlantic attempt
[13:26] <jdtanner> Ah, I thought you meant our launch this weekend ;)
[13:26] <cuddykid> ahh yes, that will be good also
[13:26] <jdtanner> Well, it will be a chase into the north of England apparently :)
[13:27] <jdtanner> Predictions are for quite a range before burst
[13:27] <number10> whats the latest prediction for poeaksy
[13:28] <jdtanner> Basically north of York, on the border of the NYM national park
[13:28] <jdtanner> Looks like we'll need a few trackers in the north ;)
[13:28] <number10> yes, well there are a few
[13:29] <jdtanner> Fingers crossed; I think a couple are coming down to help with the launch :)
[13:30] <daveake> Upu coming over with his payload?
[13:30] <number10> M0DTS is up there
[13:30] <jdtanner> Yep, which is very much appreciated.
[13:30] <Upu> its going the opposite way to normal
[13:30] <Upu> predictions if we'd launched it at 0200 this morning had it landing with 500 meters of my house
[13:30] <number10> can you wait a few weeks for when I am up in the lakes ;)
[13:31] <kokey> is there some kind of wiki of UK radio spectrum usage?
[13:31] <jdtanner> Yeah, odd weather :) I've had a prediction of it landing about 500yrds from the launch site! :)
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> kokey: Go to ofcoms site
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> kokey: search for spectrum plan
[13:32] <Upu> kokey amateur stuff http://www.rsgb.org/committees/spectrumforum/docs/rsgb_band_plan_2012.htm
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, it's not editable.
[13:32] <kokey> I found the ofcom spectrum allocation...
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> That'd make things rather too easy.
[13:32] <jdtanner> I guess it lands where it lands :)
[13:32] <kokey> but I found this too: http://www.wibble.co.uk/links/ukspectrum/spectrum.html
[13:32] <kokey> which is much more interesting
[13:32] <russss> there's http://www.roke.co.uk/resources/datasheets/uk-frequency-allocations.pdf
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[13:32] <russss> it's a bit old, but it's quite nice
[13:33] <kokey> russss: pretty
[13:33] <russss> this is the official one: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/ukfat2010.pdf
[13:44] <fsphil> nice to have some launches up north for a change
[13:45] <jdtanner> Yes, that is what a few people have said :)
[13:46] <fsphil> I've applied for a launch late next month, early june
[13:46] <jdtanner> A proper northern launch...with northern Helium
[13:46] <jdtanner> :)
[13:46] <Darkside> and northern accents?
[13:46] <jdtanner> Where are you launching from...eeeeh that's reet lad
[13:47] <daveake> and a proper northern colour scheme. pink.
[13:47] <UpuWork> aye Darkside that we be
[13:48] <Darkside> bloomin eck
[13:48] <number10> are we not allowed to use pink down south - I bought some tape
[13:48] <UpuWork> we'll b chasin in mi dadz Jag
[13:48] <jdtanner> Please...orange...we aren't that northern ;)
[13:48] <UpuWork> Landing near York at the moment
[13:49] <jdtanner> It'll be a proper Derbyshire launch...ie catastrophic, but with a smile
[13:49] <jdtanner> :p
[13:50] <number10> useful colour cylinder for pico gas http://www.amazon.co.uk/Disposable-Helium-Tank-Canister-balloons/dp/B003S5HPH0/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1335260084&sr=1-1-catcorr
[13:51] <jdtanner> I think I'll have to hide Upu's payload just in case a farmer sees it...don't take we'll to pink up here. Everything has to be mud or stone colour :)
[13:52] <jdtanner> (we'll = well)
[13:54] <daveake> Tell him you're remaking Pinky & Peaky
[13:55] <jdtanner> It'll definitely get blown out the sky then :)
[13:56] <daveake> pigs would fly then
[13:57] <jdtanner> My village last week :p http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7426794.stm
[14:00] <jdtanner> But seriously, this week is the anniversary of the Kinder Trespass which led to the formation of National Parks in the UK. Rather fitting that we launch this week from the peaks, the first national park in the uk
[14:00] <jdtanner> I think anyway :)
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[14:06] <daveake> Might be interesting to some - you can now get PIC boards in Arduino footprint, and with modified Arduino programming environment - http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,892&Cat=18
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[14:13] <fsphil> I'm surprised that took so long
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[14:15] <daveake> I think I saw a board before with the same footprint, but I don't think the IDE had been modified
[14:15] <daveake> Bit current-heavy (75mA for the "uno" version) but of course you get lots more processor power, program space and memory
[14:16] <daveake> And you can use MPLAB and your favourite* PIC C compiler
[14:16] <daveake> * if there is such a thing as a favourite
[14:17] <daveake> Bit of an overkill for your average tracker but I could see it being useful for some
[14:17] <number10> whats the advantage of the arduino format - is it because there are ready made peripheral boards?
[14:17] <daveake> yep
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[14:19] <Darkside> well not just that
[14:19] <daveake> I ought to fly a PIC sometime anyway, but using something smaller than these Explorer 16 boards :D
[14:19] <Darkside> the simple programming stuff is nice
[14:19] <number10> lol
[14:19] <Darkside> though tbh i don't use arduino boards themselves anymore, everything i fly is custom
[14:19] <daveake> indeed, but by "format" I thought he meant the footprint
[14:21] <number10> I was thinking maybe try dsp pic next as it has onboard d/a
[14:22] <Darkside> what do you need it for?
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[14:23] <number10> was looking for a small footprint devboard - bought a microstick but they are still to big as use DIl devices
[14:23] <Darkside> arduino nano?
[14:23] <Darkside> thats pretty goddamn amll
[14:23] <Darkside> small*
[14:23] <number10> was thinking of tring different modulation instead of rtty - but it was just a thought
[14:24] <Darkside> ahh
[14:24] <number10> I dont like the look of those arduino libraries that I have seen code for
[14:24] <Darkside> then write your own
[14:24] <number10> well I used a PIC
[14:24] <Darkside> if you coded in C, your PIC code is probably mostly portable
[14:25] <Darkside> if you abstract away the hardware interaction anyway
[14:25] <number10> yes, used C - is the c compiler for the arduino processor free?
[14:25] <Darkside> yes
[14:25] <Darkside> lol
[14:25] <Darkside> its gcc..
[14:26] <number10> I never really looked into it before Darkside , thats why I asked
[14:26] <Darkside> yeah, its all free
[14:26] <Darkside> and open source
[14:27] <Laurenceb> open sores
[14:28] <number10> is that from experience Laurenceb
[14:28] <number10> or a bad one?
[14:28] <Laurenceb> no im just trolling
[14:32] Nick change: mazzNZ -> mazzanet
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[15:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "[UKHAS] Great WSB weekend of progress recap"
[15:10] <fsphil> I don't like talking to ATC even for our little latex launches
[15:14] <UpuWork> its just a case of conveying the information as factually as you can
[15:14] <UpuWork> and saying tree fiver and niner
[15:20] <daveake> never say "tree" :p
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[15:20] <UpuWork> lol
[15:20] <UpuWork> apparently you have to sound irish when saying three
[15:21] <UpuWork> I'm going to catch Dan-K2VOL at some point and go through it
[15:21] <russss> different authorities have different opinions on the pronunciation
[15:21] <russss> I was taught to say 5 as fife
[15:22] <russss> I was under the impression that the whole point of saying 9 as niner was so you don't get it confused with 5 :/
[15:22] <daveake> So something like "It will land in a tree fife miles from Gatwick"?
[15:23] <UpuWork> thats correct russss :)
[15:23] <UpuWork> fife tree niner
[15:23] <UpuWork> sound drunk
[15:23] <daveake> Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
[15:24] <russss> lol
[15:25] Action: daveake awaits "clearance, Clarence", "Roger, Roger", and "What's our vector, Victor?"
[15:25] <russss> also "." is pronounced "decimal"
[15:26] <UpuWork> yep
[15:27] <UpuWork> russss you need to speak to Dan-K2VOL and get training :)
[15:27] <russss> heh I'd like to but I have enough on my plate already
[15:31] <Dan-K2VOL> hey russss
[15:32] <Dan-K2VOL> hi upuwork
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[15:33] <Dan-K2VOL> We'll get through this ATC gauntlet
[15:33] <Dan-K2VOL> but I'll tell you what - I don't like it one bit either
[15:33] <Dan-K2VOL> it's a LOT of work, too much for a balloon launch
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[15:34] <Dan-K2VOL> I think in the future we should just avoid floating out of the altitudes of 28,000 to 45,000 ft
[15:35] <russss> I didn't really see the details of why it's so annoying
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[15:39] <upix> hello
[15:40] <upix> quick question. Totex TA-800 documentation recommends maximum weight of 1.2kg. What are your practises about this, can the payload be heavier, what are the consequences and possible solutions?
[15:41] <daveake> heavier payload --> more gas --> lower altitude
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> It pops modestly earlier than you might expect
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> due to the simple burst diameter
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> and that
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[15:59] <upix> and what about parachute? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:parachute_sizing_chart this says that for a 1+ kilo payload a 1-1,5 m diameter parachute is required
[16:00] <Dan-K2VOL> heh russ, you should ask x-f why it was annoying
[16:00] <Dan-K2VOL> russss
[16:00] <daveake> Upu and I flew 2 payloads adding up to 1.5kg, under a 48" spereachute, and got a perfect 5m/s landing speed
[16:00] <russss> hah I'm not necessarily sure if I want to :P
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> it's just a lot of work to generate the position report, and figure out how to relay it properly to ATC. it won't be hard when we get practiced
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> but it's going to be nerve-wracking the first few times we each call in, as the ATC peopl on the other end are never going to be happy to hear from us
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[16:05] Action: Hibby runs around the room stressed and disappears again
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[16:15] <Hibby> Note to self: Don't put the popular "BSOD" screensaver on machine compiling critical code...
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[16:16] <Hibby> When a kernel panic pops up... much panic is had in the lab...
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[16:20] <kokey> Hibby: haha
[16:22] <daveake> Luvvit. 8 of the top 10 Google image searches for "Radiometrix NTX2" are from HAB sites.
[16:24] <Upu> hey Dan-K2VOL just remember if they are shirty "its their damn job" :)
[16:25] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
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[16:37] <eroomde> yet another pcb
[16:37] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/7109956683/in/photostream
[16:37] <eroomde> motor driver
[16:37] <eroomde> 3 more to solder up tonight
[16:37] <eroomde> tis gonna be a long one
[16:38] <jonsowman> neat
[16:38] <jonsowman> what's it for?
[16:38] <jonsowman> (don't say driving motors)
[16:39] <kokey> for an anchor
[16:41] <eroomde> actively stabilised biprop
[16:41] <eroomde> for the actuators that do the steering
[16:42] <jonsowman> :)
[16:42] <jonsowman> cool
[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> ladies and gentlemen
[16:43] <eroomde> just gentleman i fear
[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> the Speedball-1 Lallybot payload has been now running in simulation succesfully for 69 hours!
[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> http://track.whitestarballoon.com/
[16:44] <Dan-K2VOL> doing all downlink and uplink activity THROUGH iridium satellites!
[16:44] <eroomde> giggle
[16:44] <Dan-K2VOL> raw telemetry data: http://68.16.190.118:8090/GenericReport/GR_wo_masterpage.aspx?connection=WS_Telemetry2&proc=rpt_data_dump&report_title=Speedball-1+Data+Dump
[16:44] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[16:46] <Dan-K2VOL> It was launched by Lunar_Lander, x-f, myself and Brad on Saturdauy
[16:46] <Dan-K2VOL> during the mission control sim
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[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL> ok so I have to hack up the wire library, any advice on doing that so that it's still a portable arduino sketch?
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[16:57] <jdtanner> Well, I'd love to help with the WhiteStar project&but will probably be quite busy this weekend&sorry
[16:57] <nigelvh> Dan: just make a copy, name it something else, and make any changes you need. That folder should by copyable
[16:58] <nigelvh> Just have to make sure to copy the library folder as well as the sketch when you move to a different computer
[16:58] <fsphil> wire library?
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[16:58] <nigelvh> The arduino i2c library
[16:58] <nigelvh> they call it wire
[16:58] <fsphil> ah
[16:58] <fsphil> I'm just playing with i2c at the moment
[16:59] <fsphil> it's a pain
[16:59] <jonsowman> the AVR datasheet describes it as "two-wire"
[16:59] <jonsowman> because technically to call it "i2c" you need a license from Philips
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[16:59] <fsphil> yea
[16:59] <fsphil> but electrically identical
[16:59] <jonsowman> yep
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[16:59] <jonsowman> mm, standards.
[17:00] <fsphil> 1-wire is quite nice
[17:00] <fsphil> very simple to implement
[17:00] <jonsowman> its timing makes it a pain sometimes
[17:00] <nigelvh> Have to be careful with the wire library though. If the connection is bad, or gets even a resistance short the wire library can end up in an infinite loop
[17:00] <jonsowman> unless you have a library
[17:00] <jonsowman> personally i prefer synchronous prototols
[17:00] <fsphil> always do timeouts
[17:00] <jonsowman> yea, or cheat and use a watchdog :D
[17:00] <nigelvh> Yes, timeouts are important. The wire library doesn't have them though.
[17:01] <nigelvh> Perhaps that's what dan wants to do
[17:01] <fsphil> my implementation doesn't either atm, but I'm gonna add them
[17:02] <nigelvh> That's part of why I like SPI, no waiting. Just clock junk out to read in, and if it's not there then it's not hung, just got no data.
[17:02] <jonsowman> you could interrupt drive everything
[17:02] <jonsowman> avoid busy wait then you don't have to care about infinite loops
[17:02] <fsphil> that would be the best way
[17:03] <nigelvh> Except your i2c is still hung and you can't get new data
[17:03] <fsphil> you can clear the interrupt and start again
[17:03] <jonsowman> well if the hardware is going to fail then you can't get new data anyway
[17:03] <jonsowman> the point is that you don't want the entire MCU to be sitting there waiting for something to happy
[17:03] <jonsowman> *happen
[17:03] <nigelvh> Yes
[17:04] <jonsowman> and as fsphil said, interrupts give you a cleaner way of trying again
[17:04] <jonsowman> wonder why the Wire lib isn't interrupt based...
[17:04] <nigelvh> Lazy?
[17:04] <jonsowman> probably
[17:04] <fsphil> I've talked myself into doing it via interrupts now :)
[17:04] <jonsowman> fsphil: you'll be glad you did
[17:05] <fsphil> this is only for the bmp085 sensor though, not too critical
[17:05] <nigelvh> Future code use though
[17:05] <nigelvh> nice to have it done and in a good state
[17:05] <fsphil> true
[17:05] <jonsowman> make it a nice general i2c lib and then send it to Arduino people :)
[17:06] <fsphil> well it won't be written in C++
[17:06] <jonsowman> ah o
[17:06] <jonsowman> k
[17:07] <jonsowman> i feel weird programming embedded stuff in c++
[17:07] <jonsowman> prefer c :)
[17:08] <fsphil> it's cleaner
[17:08] <fsphil> well, depends on the author
[17:08] <fsphil> and his/her mood at the time :)
[17:08] <jonsowman> true
[17:09] <fsphil> the example i2c and 1-wire stuff I looked at where truly awful
[17:09] <jonsowman> haha
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[17:10] <fsphil> nothing i have uses SPI, will have to try that eventually
[17:10] <fsphil> might be able to plug an SD card into this somehow
[17:10] <jonsowman> SPI is happy
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[17:12] <jonsowman> joey's dac is 50MHz SPI
[17:12] <jonsowman> not that the AVR can manage that sort of interface speed, but still
[17:13] <fsphil> impressive
[17:13] <fsphil> what's that used for?
[17:14] <jonsowman> the dac? it's a dual one, used for setting the bias voltages across the pair of varactor diodes
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[17:15] <fsphil> ah right, for tuning?
[17:15] <DanielRichman> "< jonsowman> avoid busy wait then you don't have to care about infinite loops" not strictly true; in our interrupt driven code in an early verson i forgot a radio_state++; when lat < 0, and it infinite looped, sending "----------". Everything else carried on, like reading temperature, though
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[17:16] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: hehe
[17:16] <jonsowman> oops
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[17:17] <jonsowman> fsphil: http://www.cusf.co.uk/2012/03/joey-m-hardware-complete/ that's about as complete as the documentation gets at the moment
[17:17] <jonsowman> that may or may not change ;)
[17:17] <DanielRichman> indeed :P. Had tested at home, then taken to school to demo. Luckily we were just showing the bloop bleep radio noise and not decoding...
[17:17] <jonsowman> haha
[17:17] <jonsowman> yeah we had something like that with Ape xI
[17:17] <jonsowman> *Apex I
[17:17] <jonsowman> just show off that it makes sounds and has a flashing LED
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[17:52] <Upu> Dear CAA we have this idea we'd like to fly :
[17:52] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU&feature=g-all-u&context=G211a876FAAAAAAAAEAA
[17:52] <jonsowman> i think i know the answer
[17:53] <daveake> Ideal for shortening trees :D
[17:53] <Upu> new payload recovery systme
[17:53] <daveake> exactly
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[18:44] <cuddykid> I'm sure David Miller would understand :D
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[18:46] <fsphil-laptop> yikes, my predictions have all gone north west
[18:46] <fsphil-laptop> I could be collecting this balloon Upu :)
[18:48] <fsphil-laptop> mm.. someone nearby is having a bbq
[18:58] <Upu> yeah those predictions aren't exactly stable
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[19:07] <Upu> that said fsphil the Normal predict and the hourly are differing quite significantly
[19:08] <daveake> sounds familiar :p
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[19:24] <Lunar_LanderM> hello
[19:25] <daveake> LO LLM
[19:25] <fsphil-laptop> Upu, which one is better?
[19:25] <fsphil-laptop> lunar_lander_moon?
[19:25] <daveake> normal IMO
[19:25] <Upu> non-hourly its still up over York afk a few
[19:26] <Lunar_LanderM> yea like Mobile or so
[19:26] <Lunar_LanderM> :)
[19:28] <Lunar_LanderM> today was like the first time ever I spent time with people after uni
[19:28] <Lunar_LanderM> went to like a pub and had a beer there
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[19:29] <Laurenceb_> steady on
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> you might meet girls or something
[19:30] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[19:30] <Lunar_LanderM> we were two men and two women but both already have boyfriends
[19:30] <daveake> student ... pub ... beer .... that's an unusual combination:p
[19:30] <Lunar_LanderM> XD
[19:30] <daveake> The men have boyfriends?
[19:31] <Lunar_LanderM> no, the woment
[19:31] <Lunar_LanderM> *women
[19:31] <Lunar_LanderM> sorry
[19:31] <daveake> Anyway, keep on, you may start to enjoy the student life :)
[19:31] <Lunar_LanderM> yea :)
[19:32] Action: jonsowman mumbles something about exams
[19:32] <Lunar_LanderM> they are already done
[19:32] <Lunar_LanderM> :)
[19:32] <jonsowman> lucky
[19:33] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[19:33] <Lunar_LanderM> the other guy had a pizza while the girls had a salad each
[19:33] <Lunar_LanderM> I only had money for a beer
[19:33] <Lunar_LanderM> but that wasn't that bad
[19:33] <Lunar_LanderM> xD
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[19:34] <nigelvh_> Like was said Lunar, keep it up, you might find someone special
[19:35] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[19:35] <Lunar_LanderM> I mean I already met like one of the other women doing cognitive science
[19:35] <nigelvh_> Also, girls in relationships are still good to know. They tend to have friends.
[19:35] <Lunar_LanderM> and we like go from uni to the city after work is done and talk a lot
[19:35] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[19:36] <nigelvh_> How's life otherwise? Obsessing over BTTF much lately?
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[19:36] <nosebleedkt> hi Lunar_LanderM
[19:36] <Lunar_LanderM> hi nosebleedkt
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[19:36] <nosebleedkt> whats up?
[19:37] <Lunar_LanderM> nigelvh_, only a bit, I thought about a DeLorean as KITT from knight rider
[19:37] <Lunar_LanderM> xD
[19:37] <Lunar_LanderM> nosebleedkt, I am OK, thanks and you?
[19:37] <nosebleedkt> my bro was in berlin last week with the germal language class
[19:37] <nosebleedkt> german*
[19:37] <nosebleedkt> and another friend is in Bremmen
[19:37] <nosebleedkt> :)
[19:37] <nigelvh_> Well, when you get around to building KITT as a delorean, I'll fly over there to see it.
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[19:38] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[19:38] <Lunar_LanderM> nosebleedkt, awesome! :)
[19:38] <Lunar_LanderM> nigelvh_ yeah, I think a DeLorean could have like that double scanner from the 2008 Mustang
[19:39] <nigelvh> Haha, well I think the first goal would be getting your hands on a delorean first. They tend to be a bit rare, and a bit expensive.
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> ebay
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> It has everything
[19:40] <Lunar_LanderM> xD
[19:40] <nigelvh> Except free shipping on a delorean
[19:40] <Lunar_LanderM> afaik the new DMC builds one on request but that again is expensive
[19:41] <nigelvh> Personally I'm quite pleased with my new subaru and have no need for a delorean
[19:41] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[19:41] <Lunar_LanderM> is there Opel in the USA?
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[19:41] <Lunar_LanderM> like Vauxhall in england
[19:42] <nigelvh> Got no idea what Opel or Vauxhall are...
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> Chevrolet
[19:42] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[19:42] <Lunar_LanderM> brands of GM
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> GM used to make the engines for all of them
[19:42] <nigelvh> Oh, no, those brands aren't here, but GM and chevy certainly are.
[19:42] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[19:42] <jonsowman> they were sold under many brands in the US
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately i think its now done by isuzu
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> and their engines suck
[19:42] <nigelvh> Isuzu is here too
[19:43] <jonsowman> i know of at least Cadillac and Saturn
[19:43] <jonsowman> for (what we know in the UK as) the omega and astra/vectra
[19:43] <nigelvh> Though, I'm not fond of the GM vehicles
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[19:46] <nigelvh> I don't find them very comfy or well thought out.
[19:46] <fsphil-laptop> I like my little clio
[19:47] <nigelvh> How tall are you?
[19:47] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: 172 or 182?
[19:47] <nigelvh> Damn... metric units...
[19:47] <fsphil-laptop> 5 feet 9 inches
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[19:47] <nigelvh> Ah. Thank you.
[19:48] <fsphil-laptop> or 1.75m :)
[19:48] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'm 6'4" and have a harder time with seats and ceilings and leg room
[19:48] <fsphil-laptop> not sure jonsowman
[19:49] <jonsowman> i like clios
[19:49] <jonsowman> got to test drive one of the new 2.0l petrol ones, great fun to drive
[19:49] <gonzo_> sound like we short arses have an advantage
[19:50] <nigelvh> Yes you do gonzo_. At least in some areas.
[19:50] <nigelvh> Reaching things on the top shelf. My domain. Fitting in most cars, all yours.
[19:50] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[19:51] <Lunar_LanderM> XD
[19:51] <nigelvh> As such I was very pleased to find out in my recent car shopping that subaru made their outbacks a good bit bigger starting in 2010. So I took a new 2012 for a test drive and loved it. So that's what I got.
[19:52] <Lunar_LanderM> cool!
[19:52] <jonsowman> mm, nice cars
[19:52] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone here who admins spacenear.us database?
[19:52] <jonsowman> still doing boxer engines?
[19:53] <jonsowman> Dan-K2VOL: er, what do you want doing?
[19:53] <Upu> yeah how do you mean Dan
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL> heh, just calling up to notify you that we've stopped hammering your database
[19:53] <Upu> were you hammering it ?
[19:53] <jonsowman> SQL copes with a lot worse than that, don't worry
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL> I have been trying to get the hysplit predictions to work, and tracing through a bunch of other people's code
[19:53] <nigelvh> Yep jonsowman. in 2.5 and 3.6L
[19:54] <jonsowman> *MySQL, i should say
[19:54] <jonsowman> nigelvh: i drove one of the boxer diesels
[19:54] <Dan-K2VOL> and discovered a cron job that was logging into your MYSQL database every minute and dumping the positions table
[19:54] <jonsowman> was very impressed
[19:54] <Dan-K2VOL> and the space_track table
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[19:54] <Dan-K2VOL> probably for the last year
[19:54] <jonsowman> Dan-K2VOL: lol
[19:54] <Upu> lol
[19:54] <Upu> 404 Noticed not found
[19:54] <Dan-K2VOL> I stopped the cron job
[19:55] <Dan-K2VOL> let me know if it breaks anything :-=P
[19:55] <jonsowman> evidently didn't make that much difference
[19:55] <Lunar_LanderM> OHHH what is cron job?
[19:55] <Upu> this on spacenear.us ?
[19:55] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[19:55] <Upu> Lunar its a linux scheduled task
[19:55] <Lunar_LanderM> oh ok
[19:55] <Upu> 19:55:39 up 223 days, 23:51, 1 user, load average: 0.09, 0.10, 0.09
[19:55] <nigelvh_> Cron is the name of the task manager
[19:56] <nigelvh_> IE the process that handles the jobs
[19:56] <fsphil-laptop> cron job does sound a bit dodgy
[19:56] <nigelvh_> "hey baby, how 'bout you give me a cron job?"
[19:56] <jonsowman> >.>
[19:57] <Lunar_LanderM> ROFL
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
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[19:58] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[19:59] <daveake> Never wondered before, but does anyone know what "cron" stands for or why it's called that?
[19:59] <Lunar_LanderM> chronos probably
[19:59] <Lunar_LanderM> time
[19:59] <nigelvh> Haven't researched it, but my guess is it's a reference to chronometer
[20:00] <Lunar_LanderM> oh btw nigelvh
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> Amen
[20:00] <Upu> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+does+cron+stand+for
[20:00] <Lunar_LanderM> OUTATIME!
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[20:00] Action: jonsowman glares at zeusbot
[20:00] Action: priyesh points at apexbot
[20:00] <Upu> CRON = Command Run ON
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[20:00] <Lunar_LanderM> oh
[20:00] <Upu> but of course
[20:01] <daveake> dave's_knowledge += 1
[20:01] <Upu> anhd mine
[20:01] <priyesh> 1 hab point?
[20:01] <Lunar_LanderM> TELL ME DOCTOR
[20:01] <Upu> thats the "think" I've learnt today
[20:01] <Lunar_LanderM> where are we going this time?
[20:01] <Upu> thing
[20:01] <Lunar_LanderM> xD
[20:01] <nigelvh> Lunar_LanderM was the "OUTATIME!" bit pointed at me?
[20:01] <Upu> still not learnt to type
[20:01] <fsphil-laptop> 10 points for informal but offtopic information :)
[20:01] <Lunar_LanderM> yeah :)
[20:01] <nigelvh> Ah
[20:02] <daveake> of course I run a cron job daily: dave's_memory -= 10
[20:02] <nigelvh> Don't we all dave
[20:02] <nigelvh> Maybe that should be one of the universal constants
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> always flush
[20:03] <daveake> wastes water
[20:03] <daveake> if it's yellow .....
[20:03] <Lunar_LanderM> OHH
[20:03] Action: Lunar_LanderM starts music
[20:03] <Lunar_LanderM> TELL ME DOCTOR
[20:03] <Lunar_LanderM> where are we going this time?
[20:04] <nigelvh> I'm certain that I'm at fault for this somehow....
[20:04] <daveake> Someone needs to be :)
[20:04] <jonsowman> you are indeed.
[20:04] <fsphil-laptop> tsk tsk
[20:04] <nigelvh> Damn it....
[20:04] <Lunar_LanderM> in other news
[20:05] <Lunar_LanderM> I asked Upu earlier if a NTX2 can be easily replaced by HX1 as ham radio is allowed in the air in continental europe
[20:05] <nigelvh> Aren't they modulated differently?
[20:05] <fsphil-laptop> and powered
[20:06] <Lunar_LanderM> yea, it's 5V he said
[20:07] <Lunar_LanderM> but could you like do RTTY on 144 MHz?
[20:07] <Lunar_LanderM> in theory
[20:07] <fsphil-laptop> yes, but no point
[20:07] <daveake> nope
[20:07] <fsphil-laptop> you'd interfere with everyone doing aprs
[20:07] <fsphil-laptop> nobody doing aprs would be able to hear you
[20:07] <jonsowman> you could do it somewhere else in 2m i suppose
[20:07] <fsphil-laptop> and the extra power is pointless for 50 baud rtty
[20:07] <nigelvh> Yeah. Though you can get an HX1 on a different frequency than APRS
[20:07] <jonsowman> but i don't really know why you'd bother
[20:08] <fsphil-laptop> and you'd run your batteries down pretty quickly
[20:08] <fsphil-laptop> it also gets very hot when used continuously
[20:09] <jonsowman> oh really
[20:09] <jonsowman> interesting
[20:09] <nigelvh> Mine seems fine
[20:09] <jonsowman> what's its current draw?
[20:09] <fsphil-laptop> not meastu
[20:09] <fsphil-laptop> er
[20:09] <nigelvh> I haven't tested that part
[20:09] <fsphil-laptop> not measured
[20:09] <Lunar_LanderM> OHH
[20:09] <nigelvh> Mine does get warm, but not too hot.
[20:09] <fsphil-laptop> I accidentally left it tx'ing for a few minutes and it got fairly toasty
[20:09] <nigelvh> Yeah, I've had mine going for at least a half hour and it wasn't an issue.
[20:09] <Lunar_LanderM> but would the NTX2 at 434 MHz be a real "Ham radio application"? as it is license exempt
[20:10] <jonsowman> 140mA typ. supply current
[20:10] <daveake> Since the NXT2 is limited by LOS not power, extra power doesn't get you much if anything
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> Lunar_LanderM, 434mhz is in the 70cm amateur band
[20:10] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[20:10] <Lunar_LanderM> I just thought because of the license exempt thingy
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> nah
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> depends on how you use it
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> put a callsign on it, and it's an amateur device :)
[20:11] <jonsowman> daveake: well, it makes up for the fact that most of the APRS network has antennas with radiation patterns towards the horizon rather than up
[20:11] <jonsowman> or goes some way towards it anyway
[20:11] <daveake> jonsowman gottit
[20:11] <jonsowman> also 1200 baud for APRS
[20:12] <nigelvh> Yep. I plan on using a HX1 for APRS on a balloon over here sometime.
[20:12] <Lunar_LanderM> ah, so when Thomas is like helping us, we can put his callsign in the string?
[20:12] <jonsowman> so more transmit power means you get more better error rates
[20:12] <jonsowman> lol "more better"
[20:12] <jonsowman> can't type
[20:12] <nigelvh> "mo' betta'
[20:12] <daveake> So, because you're not allowed to use your radio license airborne, does that mean if you use your callsign on an airborne device you're breaking the license even if you're using an unlicensed device?
[20:12] <fsphil-laptop> extra powerification
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[20:13] <nigelvh> Totally cool for ham to use stuff in the air over here in the US. No restrictions.
[20:13] <fsphil-laptop> daveake, I grey area :)
[20:13] <fsphil-laptop> -I
[20:13] <jonsowman> yep, huge grey area
[20:13] <nigelvh> Oh, that's a good question.
[20:13] <jonsowman> i doubt anyone would care if you transmitted your callsign on an ISM band device
[20:13] <fsphil-laptop> I'd like to launch an ntx2 based repeater sometime
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[20:13] <daveake> me grey area, increasingly :p
[20:13] <jonsowman> whether it's technically within the amateur license, idk
[20:13] <daveake> ta
[20:14] <Lunar_LanderM> ah, so when Thomas is like helping us, we can put his callsign in the string?
[20:14] <fsphil-laptop> but amateur devices on the ground transmitting to an ISM device in the air is very iffy
[20:14] <jonsowman> i used to have a contact at OFCOM who i could ask this kind of thing
[20:14] <jonsowman> then he retired :(
[20:14] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: that's definitely against license terms
[20:14] <nigelvh> Why is an amateur talking to an ISM device iffy. I could see a problem the other way around.
[20:14] <jonsowman> i.e. uplinking to a HAB using an amateur license
[20:14] <fsphil-laptop> even if they're communicating with other licensed users jonsowman?
[20:15] <jonsowman> well you can't transmit to the remote airborne station using your amateur license
[20:15] <Lunar_LanderM> OK third time xD
[20:15] <Lunar_LanderM> ah, so when Thomas is like helping us, we can put his callsign in the string?
[20:15] <Lunar_LanderM> xD
[20:15] <nigelvh> So you can't use satellites then?
[20:15] <jonsowman> what you can do is say "well i was broadcasting to someone else and the HAB happened to hear me"
[20:15] <jonsowman> oh the rules for satellites are yet again different :(
[20:15] <daveake> :)
[20:16] <jonsowman> it all makes very little sense
[20:16] <Lunar_LanderM> do I have to repeat a fourth time?
[20:16] <nigelvh> That's what it is though. A remote radio device, above the surface of the earth.
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[20:16] <nigelvh> Lunar, if there's no restrictions on ham in the air where you are, then put it on and it's fine.
[20:16] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[20:17] <fsphil-laptop> I'd ask ofcom if I thought there was half a chance they'd respond
[20:17] <Lunar_LanderM> the people at lake constance have used APRS and 434 MHz is OK as well
[20:17] <Lunar_LanderM> I got a paper from the BNetzA (like Germany's ofcom) about license exempt devices
[20:17] <nigelvh> Check the regs. People are idiots. Don't wanna get your friend in trouble
[20:17] <Lunar_LanderM> and it says 434 MHz allowed for unlimited use
[20:17] <Lunar_LanderM> I told them that this is a balloon launch and stuff
[20:18] <nigelvh> To summarize, if you're using ham priveledges, either high power or different frequency, put the call on, otherwise it doesn't matter.
[20:19] <Lunar_LanderM> yeah
[20:20] <Lunar_LanderM> cause there is that amateur radio for schools club and the lake constance people used their landing/flight insurance
[20:20] <Lunar_LanderM> and they like have the requirement that the balloon is a "ham radio application"
[20:23] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: i think it's because you're not allowed to broadcast anywhere except the calling channels
[20:23] <jonsowman> and comms with the ISM device count as broadcasts since you're not talking to another amateur
[20:23] <jonsowman> whereas that's not true of satellites
[20:23] <fsphil-laptop> even using the ISM device as a repeater?
[20:23] <jonsowman> hmm, that's an interesting one
[20:24] <fsphil-laptop> my idea is to have an ntx2 + nrx2
[20:24] <fsphil-laptop> one transmitting what the other receives
[20:24] <nigelvh> What about beacons.
[20:25] <nigelvh> Or are those set aside in the regulations at certain frequencies?
[20:25] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: "music and speech not permitted" for the 434 ISM band
[20:25] <nigelvh> digital repeater
[20:25] <jonsowman> yes that'd be ok i think
[20:26] <nigelvh> digitally encoded speech
[20:26] <nigelvh> ;)
[20:26] <jonsowman> i don't really know, i'm just trying to make some sense of IR2030 and the amateur license
[20:26] <nigelvh> Yes, the regs can be confusing.
[20:26] <jonsowman> and IR2028 or whatever the other one is
[20:26] <nigelvh> Though I haven't read yours
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[20:26] <nigelvh> I've just got FCC Part 97
[20:27] <jonsowman> IR2030 is a word document
[20:27] <jonsowman> "export to pdf" was apparently beyond OFCOM
[20:27] <daveake> sigh
[20:27] <nigelvh> sigh indeed
[20:27] <fsphil-laptop> jonsowman, "Analogue audio applications other than voice / speech are excluded."
[20:27] <fsphil-laptop> voice is fine
[20:28] <fsphil-laptop> there is a PDF on the site
[20:28] <fsphil-laptop> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR_2030.pdf
[20:28] <jonsowman> oo, link?
[20:28] <jonsowman> ta
[20:28] <jonsowman> oh a pdf version of IR2030
[20:29] <jonsowman> where does it say about voice?
[20:29] <fsphil-laptop> page 17
[20:29] <fsphil-laptop> below the "equipment may be used airborne" message
[20:30] <jonsowman> aha
[20:30] <fsphil-laptop> no music, but voice is good
[20:30] <jonsowman> i was looking at pg59
[20:30] <jonsowman> under Model Control
[20:30] <fsphil-laptop> ah
[20:30] <jonsowman> for the 434 band
[20:30] <jonsowman> which, in the other version of the document, says "no speech or music"
[20:30] <jonsowman> so that's nice and clear :)
[20:31] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:31] <fsphil-laptop> that's ofcom for you
[20:31] <jonsowman> :\
[20:31] <fsphil-laptop> "You can't do it, unless you do"
[20:31] <jonsowman> lol
[20:31] <daveake> OFten COMpletely contradictory
[20:32] <jonsowman> quite
[20:32] <Lunar_LanderM> XD!
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[20:40] <Lunar_LanderM> is Chelsea football good?
[20:41] <eroomde> don't talk aboutpolitics or religion on this chanel please Lunar_LanderM
[20:41] <Lunar_LanderM> oh ok
[20:41] <eroomde> (that was a joke)
[20:42] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[20:42] <Randomskk> jonsowman: the inconsistency is under what specific regulations any given activity is permitted iirc
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[20:42] <natrium42> eroomde: is it both?
[20:42] <natrium42> :D
[20:47] <eroomde> i expect so yes
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[20:48] <eroomde> 'Tchaikovsky retreated to this lake to recover from his disastrous marriage...'
[20:48] <eroomde> ^ the nearest Classic FM can come to admitting someone was gay
[20:49] <Lunar_LanderM> XD
[20:49] <Lunar_LanderM> damn I forgot my question
[20:49] <Lunar_LanderM> ah I got it
[20:49] <Lunar_LanderM> the professor and I today looked for constantan wire for a cutdown
[20:50] <Lunar_LanderM> and he showed me that PSU which can be regulated for current and voltage
[20:50] <Lunar_LanderM> and my question is, how can I connect the wire (to test when it will cut a rope, at which current) to it? I don't think I can simply shove the wire into the output ports
[20:50] <Lunar_LanderM> I don't want to be stupid and destroy the PSU or so
[20:51] <daveake> tsk
[20:51] <eroomde> yes you can just connect the wire
[20:51] <Lunar_LanderM> oh
[20:51] <eroomde> just make sure you have the current limiting on
[20:52] <eroomde> you wont destroy the psu
[20:52] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[20:52] <daveake> It'll get warm, or hot, or melt
[20:52] <daveake> (the wire)
[20:52] <daveake> The PSU will look after itself
[20:52] <daveake> How many amps you need depends on the wire. Thinner stuff has higher resistance and so needs lower power
[20:53] <daveake> The one I made was about 4 ohms and got nicely hot with 4V / 1A
[20:55] <daveake> Measure the resistance, decide what current/voltage you want, set the voltage to that and the current limit to something higher
[20:55] <Lunar_LanderM> yea
[20:55] <Lunar_LanderM> thanks :)
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> try not to be on fire
[21:03] <daveake> Lunar_Lander_A&E
[21:04] <eroomde> we should have a new wiki page
[21:04] <eroomde> fsphil's HAB Safety Tips
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> try to have 10 fingers and thumbs after launch
[21:04] <jonsowman> http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Rules
[21:04] <Upu> I nearly broke that one last launch
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> eek
[21:05] <Upu> only got the feeling back in my little finger this week
[21:05] <jonsowman> see Rule 0
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[21:07] <Lunar_LanderM> daveake, A&E?
[21:08] <daveake> Arse and Elbow
[21:08] <Lunar_LanderM> thanks jonsowman
[21:08] <daveake> Er, Accident & Emergency
[21:08] <Lunar_LanderM> daveake, xD
[21:11] <Lunar_LanderM> oh ok
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[21:24] <nigelvh> Point of curiosity, besides running fldigi and having some internet, is there any way to tie in my payload's APRS data to the tracker?
[21:25] <jcoxon> nigelvh, the tracker can track aprs
[21:25] <jcoxon> rather than using fldigi
[21:25] <jcoxon> off the aprs internet servers
[21:25] <nigelvh> That's very handy, because I don't expect to use fldigi or have internet.
[21:26] <nigelvh> Good to know then. Thanks for the answer. I'll have to let you know when we're getting close.
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[22:57] <Lunar_LanderM> could someone of the people who are still on give me a link to Upu's shop?
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[23:21] <eroomde> still at work
[23:22] <eroomde> i've forgotten what my housemate looks like
[23:22] Action: SpeedEvil passes eroomde a copy of the european working time directive.
[23:22] <eroomde> jonsowman: ping if you're still up
[23:23] <eroomde> infact scrap that jonsowman
[23:23] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: ol yes please
[23:23] <eroomde> doing stuff for scotland
[23:24] <eroomde> i have made 5 PCBs today
[23:24] <eroomde> schematics to soldered inside 5 days including the weekend
[23:24] <eroomde> it's been a bit mental
[23:24] <eroomde> and pcb pool have done very well out of next qworking day pcb prototyping
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[23:39] <eroomde> right going home
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 25 2012