highaltitude.log.20120422

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[00:06] <griffonbot> @evil_hitman: @vk5gr great vid and perfect flight. Well done #ProjectHorus [http://twitter.com/evil_hitman/status/193853334183100416]
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[00:12] <SpeedEvil> Lyrid meteor shower tonight
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> - due east now apparantly
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> (uk)
[00:12] <Randomskk> oooh.
[00:12] <Randomskk> bah, clouds!
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> Same here
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[05:54] <heathkid> did I miss somthing?
[05:57] <Darkside> nope
[06:04] <heathkid> figures
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[06:35] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: Watch Project Horus: Horus 23 - Amateur Radio in the Sky on Vimeo! http://t.co/j09ArQlr #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/193951237610283008]
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[07:13] <natrium42> Darkside: do you know grant's email?
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[07:18] <Darkside> natrium42: uhm
[07:18] <Darkside> vk5gr@bigpond.com
[07:18] <Darkside> or just ping him on twitter
[07:31] <Upu> morning
[07:34] <griffonbot> @shenki: RT @vk5gr: Watch Project Horus: Horus 23 - Amateur Radio in the Sky on Vimeo! http://t.co/j09ArQlr #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/shenki/status/193965924930437120]
[07:35] <daveake> morning
[07:35] <Upu> Hi Dave did you try recover yesterday ?
[07:36] <daveake> Not been out yet
[07:36] <Upu> ok
[07:36] <Upu> chucking it down here
[07:36] <daveake> Had that last night; fine now
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[09:10] <fsphil-laptop> mooorning
[09:16] <griffonbot> Received email: benoxley "[UKHAS] Re: ASTRA Altitude Controller Launch Sunday the 22nd of April"
[09:16] <benoxley> morning
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[09:20] <number10> morning
[09:20] <SamSilver> hi
[09:21] <SamSilver> thought there was flight today
[09:22] <SamSilver> yesterdays rocket assisted PicoChu launch was a blast
[09:23] <SamSilver> looks like the third stage never detached, so no float
[09:24] <SamSilver> ;)
[09:24] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[09:26] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[09:26] <fsphil-laptop> does seem that way
[09:29] <Morseman> Audio interface for the FT817 sorted now all needed is a ciggaret lighter plug on the power lead
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[09:29] <jonsowman> are you sure it's ok to just plug it straight into car electrics?
[09:35] <Morseman> Yes - it'll be no problem Jon - it's 13.8V powered
[09:35] <Morseman> I've used it in the car loads of times before
[09:35] <jonsowman> hmm ok, I was wondering if it was safe
[09:35] <jonsowman> since the car's electrics are horribly noisy
[09:36] <Morseman> What's not safe? It was designed to be mobile/portable
[09:36] <jonsowman> 80V spikes from the injection system and from the alternator engaging (if it's clutched)
[09:36] <Morseman> That's why I'm soldering a cigarret plug on so no need to make up a lead and potentially get wrong way round
[09:37] <Morseman> Never had a problem with CB or Am Radio gear in any car since I started CBing in late 1970s
[09:37] <Morseman> hey are designed to cope
[09:37] <jonsowman> that's fine then
[09:37] <jonsowman> was just wondering if mobile radios had good enough power supply filtering
[09:38] <Darkside> yes.
[09:38] <Darkside> 817 can run fine off a car supply
[09:38] <Morseman> Like I say never had a problem...
[09:38] <jonsowman> i scoped my car's cigarette lighter once
[09:38] <jonsowman> wasn't pretty
[09:38] <Darkside> jonsowman: noise blanker
[09:38] <Morseman> Bigger danger is dropping them on your foot if the car stops suddenly :-)
[09:38] <jonsowman> cool
[09:39] <Darkside> its designed to remove that kind of pulse noise
[09:39] <jonsowman> i'll make up a lead at some point
[09:39] <jonsowman> Darkside: yeah, will use it
[09:39] <jonsowman> i was more concerned about the radio's power supply than RF interference
[09:40] <Darkside> no it'll be fine
[09:40] <jonsowman> cool, ta
[09:43] <fsphil-laptop> I got the yaesu car adaptor, it's basically direct with some filtering
[09:43] <fsphil-laptop> no voltage regulation at all
[09:44] <Randomskk> filtering would be the thing though
[09:44] <Randomskk> the icom manual says do not connect via a cigerette lighter adaptor as it'l probably blow all the fuses :P
[09:45] <jonsowman> hmm, yes, hence concern
[09:45] <Randomskk> not for the 817 I wouldn't think
[09:45] <Randomskk> why not just buy the yaesu car connector?
[09:46] <Morseman> RF interference is the bigger problem
[09:46] <Randomskk> that's pretty much a sure bet, right
[09:46] <Morseman> Citroen was the worst
[09:46] <jonsowman> well yes
[09:46] <jonsowman> but i was wondering if it was necessary
[09:46] <Morseman> With the Prius on 10M I have to stop and wait for all the electronics to switch off
[09:47] <jonsowman> Randomskk: £25 !
[09:47] <Morseman> If you want to run 100W RF that is more than cigarett lighter socket will take but the FT817 only TXs up to 5W
[09:47] <Morseman> Plus, they are only RXing on 70cm anyway
[09:48] <jonsowman> i don't see why yaesu would make the car adapter with filter if they thought it could be plugged into automotive systems without filtering
[09:50] <Morseman> 450mA unsquelched receive and 2A on 5W transmit
[09:50] <jonsowman> yeah current's not an issue
[09:50] <jonsowman> my car has a 10A cig lighter fuse
[09:51] <SpeedEvil> Cars vary from 6-16V under 'normal' conditions, and -80 to +80 under faults
[09:51] <SpeedEvil> Which may be why filtering is good
[09:52] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: there's 40-50V of noise from the injectors on mine
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> Ow.
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> Really?
[09:52] <jonsowman> they're unit injectors
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> Impressive.
[09:53] <jonsowman> so like 80V at a few amps to fire one
[09:53] <jonsowman> it's horrifically noisy
[09:53] <jonsowman> newer injection systems aren't as bad
[09:54] <Morseman> Could do with a new internal battery pack - this one wont hold a charge anymore
[09:55] <jonsowman> i got a new one when i bought the radio luckily
[09:55] <jonsowman> the old one is completely knackered
[09:57] <Morseman> We tend to give them a hard life :-)
[09:58] <jonsowman> true
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[10:04] <Morseman> Continuity checks out and right way round with no short cct so time to plug in...
[10:04] <kokey> anyone near watford with a fat TX?
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[10:09] <pjm__> is there a launch today?
[10:09] <jonsowman> pjm__: cancelled unfortunately
[10:09] <pjm__> ok thanks
[10:09] <jonsowman> technical difficulties
[10:09] <pjm__> btw, i had a thought re CAA approval
[10:10] <jonsowman> i should say "postponed" rather than "cancelled"
[10:10] <pjm__> u could find somewhere that does met sonde launches, like larkhill, and sync the ham HAB with the sonde launch, the official sonde would no doubt have CAA approval so the ham launch could just piggyback onto that
[10:10] <jonsowman> yeah that has been done before
[10:11] <pjm__> perfect!
[10:11] <jonsowman> the sonde launches from larkhill tend to be at awkward times
[10:11] <pjm__> presumably with no complaints
[10:11] <jonsowman> the one i know of was from camborne
[10:11] <jonsowman> at around 3pm
[10:11] <jonsowman> i don't know how it was coordinated with the met office though
[10:11] <Morseman> Hurray - smoke still in
[10:12] <Randomskk> pjm__: the official sonde launch is approved only for a sonde
[10:12] <Randomskk> you can't really piggyback
[10:12] <Randomskk> you can often use their launch sites though
[10:13] <Randomskk> well, "often" -- it's been done by some people who knew some people
[10:14] <pjm__> but i guess if u launch at the same time there relevant notam's will be in place for the 'official' launch
[10:14] <pjm__> so probably it wont cause any problems
[10:14] <Randomskk> I don't think the met sondes even have notams, they're on a different list, but the notam doesn't give you permission to launch
[10:14] <Randomskk> permission to launch is a separate thing
[10:15] <Randomskk> I mean you're still basically right -- it is possible to launch a balloon from one of the met's sites, if you know the right people
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[10:18] <pjm__> i guess the other suitable places are flight exclusion zones
[10:18] <pjm__> for example over RAF Oakhanger there is a massive exclusion
[10:18] <pjm__> so a launch near there should technically be permissable
[10:19] <Randomskk> isn't the exclusion because the RAF are flying though?
[10:19] <pjm__> no it due to massive amounts of RF at S and X band
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[10:20] <Randomskk> ah, ok
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[10:27] <Morseman> 817 now on a recharge - just in case
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[10:55] <Morseman> Time for another cuppa I think
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[11:08] <schofieldau> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133069/Rubber-chicken-space-School-science-pupils-send-weirdest-astronaut-edge-atmosphere-knitted-NASA-suit.html
[11:08] <schofieldau> "space"
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> The final fronteir.
[11:17] <AndChat-> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_wXKOnd3FE0/T5L-j8vqNAI/AAAAAAAAFx8/qK_wya8uuNs/s1600/BALLON_PICOCHU-5_210412_profil.JPG
[11:17] <AndChat-> gotta love that lol
[11:18] Nick change: AndChat- -> NigeyMoby
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[11:24] <Bob_G8NSV> Morning all
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[12:05] <Nickle> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21428615.300-invent-a-balloon-shape-print-it-then-just-blow.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news
[12:05] <Nickle> Printing balloons
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[12:37] <eroomde> pong Upu
[12:37] <jonsowman> eroomde: whilst you're here, did you email CCC the gerbers?
[12:39] <eroomde> no not yet - i was thinking wed might be a bit later. managed to sneak the board onto a next-working-day order at work
[12:40] <eroomde> but am about to go into work now (lay-in as working on rocket yesterday till well after midnight in cam then drove home)
[12:40] <eroomde> so will think it through
[12:40] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/7VHyT.jpg
[12:40] <jonsowman> hehe, nice
[12:41] <jonsowman> can you let me know what you decide to due
[12:41] <Randomskk> eroomde: haha nice photo
[12:41] <jonsowman> we should not just not reply to CCC
[12:41] <jonsowman> *do
[12:41] <Randomskk> and that's just 2/3 stages...
[12:42] <eroomde> no indeed i was deinifintely going to email him today one way or the other
[12:42] <eroomde> yes it's jusr 2/3
[12:42] <jonsowman> ok, ta
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[12:51] <Upu> hey eroomde
[12:52] <eroomde> yo
[12:52] <eroomde> got a ping from you
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[12:54] <number10> nice rocket eroomde, is that something you are doing with CUSF?
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[12:55] <Bob_G8NSV> hi all is the launch from Cambridge still go for later please??
[12:55] <Darkside> Bob_G8NSV: no, cancelled
[12:55] <eroomde> number10: yes
[12:56] <gonzo_> ah then that's a 50:50 then?!
[12:56] <Huggy823> weather not good?
[12:56] <eroomde> 50:50?
[12:57] <jonsowman> Huggy823: technical problems :)
[12:57] <Bob_G8NSV> shame
[12:57] <jonsowman> also the weather is indeed terrible
[12:57] <jonsowman> chucking it down in Cambridge
[12:57] <gonzo_> well there were 2 replies just, _ve and +ve
[12:58] <Bob_G8NSV> ah well off out shopping then might make up a little dowel plug to wind my GPS GFH on
[12:58] <eroomde> heh just looked at raintoday
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[12:58] <Bob_G8NSV> see you all later
[12:58] <eroomde> looks like there's crap coming my way
[12:58] <Bob_G8NSV> QFHeven
[12:58] <eroomde> gonzo_: ah no i was replying to number10
[12:58] <eroomde> about the rocket
[12:58] <gonzo_> ah, ok.
[12:58] <jonsowman> i don't enjoy launching in rain
[12:59] <Randomskk> lol
[12:59] <Randomskk> to say the least
[12:59] <Randomskk> remember nova19?
[12:59] <Randomskk> that was miserable
[12:59] <jonsowman> yeah
[12:59] <eroomde> you know rich wareham?
[12:59] <gonzo_> postponed then.
[13:00] <jonsowman> eroomde: supervised by him last term
[13:00] <eroomde> i have never heard a man make more of a whimper-like-a-girl noise than on a december launch in 2009
[13:00] <Randomskk> hahaha
[13:00] <eroomde> it was a sshadt test flight of the upper stage
[13:00] <jonsowman> hahah
[13:00] <eroomde> anyway, lots of icy rain
[13:00] <eroomde> collecting on the balloon
[13:00] <eroomde> and running down his hands (he was holding the balloon) down is sleeves and to his armpits and down his side
[13:01] <eroomde> jonsowman: ah cool that you were supervised by him
[13:01] <eroomde> was there much hab chat?
[13:01] <jonsowman> yeah i talked to him about the predictor stuff quite a bit
[13:01] <eroomde> awesome
[13:01] <jonsowman> he's a very good supervisor
[13:01] <eroomde> yeah
[13:01] <eroomde> very thorough
[13:01] <eroomde> makes sure you actually understand why you're doing things
[13:01] <jonsowman> yeah
[13:02] <jonsowman> more so than the lecturer
[13:02] <eroomde> who was that?
[13:02] <jonsowman> tom hynes & geoff parks
[13:02] <jonsowman> (3M1)
[13:02] <eroomde> we had tom hynes for lin alg in 2nd year
[13:02] <jonsowman> we did too
[13:02] <eroomde> i hated his notes with a passion
[13:02] <jonsowman> 3M1 is new this year though
[13:02] <eroomde> man had never heard of latex
[13:02] <jonsowman> so it's a bit of a mess
[13:03] <jonsowman> haha yeah his notes haven't got much better
[13:03] <eroomde> the big square bracker for matrices were all over the place
[13:03] <jonsowman> haha
[13:03] <eroomde> i think he made them with pipe symbols but still couldn't get them to line up
[13:03] <Randomskk> D:
[13:03] <eroomde> yeah
[13:03] <eroomde> bad
[13:03] <jonsowman> oh ok, they're no longer quite that bad
[13:04] <Randomskk> oh hey eroomde, how much work are 3rd year projects?
[13:05] <eroomde> oh not much
[13:05] <eroomde> i quite enjoyed mine
[13:05] <eroomde> which are you doing?
[13:05] <eroomde> i did image comprtession which was one of the most useful bits of coursework i did on my course
[13:05] <jonsowman> i was hoping that'd be the asnwer
[13:05] <Randomskk> software engineering and also microfluidics
[13:05] <Randomskk> the software one looks like it should be really fine
[13:05] <eroomde> it was basically trying to write a better jpeg
[13:06] <eroomde> i did the software one too
[13:06] <Randomskk> just they say they estimate 20hrs/wk/project which would make a 40 hour work week in theory
[13:06] <Randomskk> which seems a bit silly
[13:06] <Randomskk> what was software like?
[13:06] <eroomde> igital logic simulator
[13:06] <Randomskk> yea that
[13:06] <eroomde> that was good too
[13:06] <eroomde> the rules are
[13:06] <Randomskk> cool
[13:06] <eroomde> make the parser bomb proof
[13:06] <eroomde> because tim love will spend hours trying to break it
[13:06] <Randomskk> meh
[13:06] <Randomskk> state machine
[13:06] <Randomskk> the number of parsers for awful protocols I've written for work by now...
[13:07] <eroomde> and then they liked that we used a wiki and version control
[13:07] <Randomskk> I maintain that well thought out state machines are the best protocol parsers
[13:07] <eroomde> i mean that's second nature right
[13:07] <Randomskk> yea
[13:07] <Randomskk> :|
[13:07] <Randomskk> I'm gonna be git branching all over the show and shit
[13:07] <Randomskk> lol reminds me of the IDP software
[13:07] <Randomskk> we even had doxygen
[13:07] <eroomde> but you'd be amazed that the lab sessions would be full of poeple arguring over wether or not they should use final.zip or seriouslyfinalversion.zip
[13:07] <jonsowman> please don't remind me of the IDP software
[13:07] <Randomskk> they didn't seem to care at all annoyingly
[13:07] <Randomskk> eroomde: how many people in the team?
[13:07] <eroomde> we had 3
[13:07] <Randomskk> I hope the other people in the team at least understand that git is a good idea >_>
[13:08] <eroomde> i think it was 3 in general
[13:08] <Randomskk> hmm well jon and I are both doing it at least
[13:08] <eroomde> i think all i really did towards it was the error reporting (we made it so it could be easily internationalised which they liked) and then lotas of eye candy on the gui
[13:09] <Randomskk> nice
[13:09] <Randomskk> yea I get the feeling that should be pretty ok
[13:10] <Randomskk> no idea what microfluidics will be like
[13:10] <Randomskk> but oh well, no fun without variety :D
[13:10] <Darkside> eroomde: http://imgur.com/a/7NrQB
[13:10] <Darkside> working towards a rfm22b combined telemetry/cutdown
[13:10] <eroomde> nice
[13:11] <Randomskk> I like how the last three months have seen like ten or fifteen different PCBs all featuring a ublox 6, sarantel antenna, rfm22b or other new radio, cutdown and some avr :P
[13:11] <Darkside> Randomskk: haha yes
[13:11] <Randomskk> Darkside: what kinda cutdown? hot wire?
[13:12] <Darkside> Randomskk: yeah, now the cutdown part is going to be interesting
[13:12] <Darkside> another guy in our group is working on a constant current driver
[13:12] <Darkside> making use of PWM and one of the analog comparators
[13:13] <eroomde> comparators? like a bang-bang control?
[13:13] <Darkside> bang bang control?
[13:13] <Randomskk> why would you use bang bang on a constant current supply?
[13:13] <eroomde> well (warnign chain or assumptions about to come)
[13:13] <eroomde> of*
[13:13] <Darkside> i don't remember much about what he's going to do
[13:13] <Randomskk> anyway can't you just buy a constant current driver IC?
[13:13] <eroomde> it's based around pwm and a comparator
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> i use an adjustable vreg
[13:13] <Darkside> all i remember is the nichrome is in series with an inductor
[13:14] <eroomde> comparator tells you if the voltage is above or below some threshold
[13:14] <Darkside> and its being PWMed
[13:14] <eroomde> say that threshold is set according to some vdiff across a current sense resistor
[13:14] <Upu> ping eroomde it was you who has taken part in Robot Wars wasn't it ?
[13:14] <eroomde> all you know is if you have too much or too little current flowing in this setup
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> i just built something that did constant current with a vreg
[13:14] <eroomde> so you 'bang bang' because you either up your duty ratio or lower your duty ratio
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> but that leads to lots of heating
[13:15] <eroomde> to keep your comparator constantly changing state
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> this was for const current sensors
[13:15] <eroomde> that's bang-bang
[13:15] <eroomde> or dithering i guess to be more correct
[13:15] <Darkside> mm
[13:15] <Darkside> well that part of the circuit is being outsourced :P
[13:15] <Randomskk> I thought bang bang was just for two discrete control signals
[13:15] <Randomskk> but perhaps not
[13:15] <Darkside> i'm just leaving him space and IOs
[13:15] <eroomde> more like states i think
[13:15] <eroomde> as opposed to linear
[13:15] <Randomskk> the only time I've had to do anything with bang bang control, there were only two control states, anyway :P
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[13:16] <eroomde> i think that's the case here
[13:16] <eroomde> 'MOAR pwm' and 'LESS pwm'
[13:16] <Randomskk> I guess
[13:16] <Darkside> the idea is we should be able to set a current and have it hold that
[13:16] <eroomde> you can do it this way
[13:16] <eroomde> dithering is allowed
[13:16] <eroomde> lots of missiles do that
[13:16] <Randomskk> how do you tell someone they forgot to attach an important thing?
[13:16] <eroomde> they just buzz the control surfaces from fully one way to the other at high speed
[13:17] <eroomde> and vary the duty cycle
[13:17] <Randomskk> this is the problem with saying "enclosed" rather than "attached": mail clients don't call you on it
[13:17] <Randomskk> eroomde: ah, I guess
[13:17] <Randomskk> fair enough
[13:17] <eroomde> you can do that when you have a 50kW hot gas power system for your flight control surfaces on a 300kg missile
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[13:17] <Randomskk> yes
[13:17] <jonsowman> Randomskk: http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~strctlrn/bib/PDF/ceas06.pdf
[13:17] <Darkside> eroomde: wouldn't a pwm system like that be more efficient than a linear system?
[13:17] <Randomskk> jonsowman: :D
[13:18] <eroomde> pwm is fine yeah
[13:18] <eroomde> it's a problem of feedback
[13:18] <Randomskk> jonsowman: linking to that pdf would just be very passive
[13:18] <jonsowman> Randomskk: hahah
[13:18] <eroomde> so you can have a smps to do the constant current
[13:18] <eroomde> that's fine
[13:18] <eroomde> it's more how you set the pwm
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[13:18] <Darkside> mm
[13:18] <eroomde> and comparator suggests you feedback is 0 (too little current) or 1 (too much current)
[13:18] <Darkside> well, i'm letting this other guy do it
[13:18] <Darkside> he works in that area anyway
[13:19] <eroomde> so if you can make it go 0/1/0/1/0/1/0/1/0/1 etc fast enough with about the same duty cycle, you're in good shape
[13:19] <Darkside> he's had something like 20 years industry experience, so i'm going to trust he knows what he's doing
[13:19] <eroomde> yeah i don't think i'm complaining. i don;t think :)
[13:19] <eroomde> more curious
[13:19] <Darkside> once it's done i'll let you know :P
[13:19] <Darkside> my job is to get the radio, gps, and micro squished into one bit of the pcb
[13:20] <Darkside> and leaving the rest for him
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[13:41] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:41] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - PEAKSKY Launch ~1000UTC 28/04/12 from Peak District, UK
[13:41] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:42] <griffonbot> Received email: John Tanner "Re: [UKHAS] Provisional Launch Announcement 28/04/2012"
[13:45] <jdtanner> http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2012/19apr_camilla/
[13:45] <jdtanner> Great balloon burt picture
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[13:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:12] Elmar_PD3EM (~chatzilla@ip4da77145.direct-adsl.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[14:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi Elmar_PD3EM
[14:12] <Lunar_Lander> good to see you, as I got a question
[14:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> Hi Lunar_Lander
[14:12] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[14:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> good. tnx how about you?
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[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> quite OK, thanks
[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> could you please link me once more to the MSI file of the ublox program?
[14:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> gonna look were I got that link...
[14:14] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[14:17] <Elmar_PD3EM> http://www.u-blox.com/customersupport/u-center.msi
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> thanks!
[14:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> your welcome ;-)
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[14:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> is schofieldau still around?
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[14:51] <cuddykid> storm :P
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[14:54] <eroomde> cuddykid: where?
[14:54] <eroomde> in worcester?
[14:54] <cuddykid> yup
[14:54] <eroomde> wow
[14:54] <cuddykid> fair few around the area
[14:54] <eroomde> so not long until it comes this way
[14:54] <eroomde> bicester
[14:54] <cuddykid> ahh yes, won't be long then :D
[14:55] <cuddykid> http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning;sess=
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[14:55] <cuddykid> looks like picochu might be getting some storm action too
[14:56] <G0DJA> Just back from swimming
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[15:08] <Elmar_PD3EM> anyone using the Arduino SD library?
[15:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> nobody is using the SD Library?
[15:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> how do you log data to a SD card?
[15:19] <eroomde> I'd use the Arduino SD Library
[15:19] <Matt_soton> personally i use fatfs, but i use straight avr not arduino
[15:19] <Matt_soton> arduino library is probably easier
[15:20] <Elmar_PD3EM> Yep, i was trying to use the SD library.... easy as standalone but not with the gps rtty tx as well.....
[15:20] <Elmar_PD3EM> When I uise the Datalogger example ecverything is working
[15:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> but when I combine it with the TinyTracker (from schofieldau) all is messed up...
[15:23] <Bob_G8NSV> Elmar_pd3em I used it a few years ago on a datalogger and had loads of problems. I ended up using a card reader with its own firmware on board to do proper FAT and stuff. it had a library with it that worked
[15:23] <Bob_G8NSV> you could append to files create new files open multiple files and all sorts of clever stuff
[15:24] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
[15:24] <Elmar_PD3EM> that seems to be possible as well with the latest SD Library as well
[15:25] <Elmar_PD3EM> but the combination with the txBuffer for RTTY is messing it up and GPS is being intitialized every time in the loop
[15:26] <Bob_G8NSV> this was a little module called uAlfat
[15:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> thanks Bob_G8NSV, will look into that one
[15:27] <Matt_soton> does the sd card library use timers or interrupts?
[15:28] <Elmar_PD3EM> no in the sketch
[15:28] <Elmar_PD3EM> not*
[15:28] <Matt_soton> but it might internally?
[15:28] <Elmar_PD3EM> looking into that now...
[15:28] <Matt_soton> mine needs a 10ms interrupt which is used to time timeouts
[15:29] <Matt_soton> but that is 'fed in externally'
[15:29] <Bob_G8NSV> the price has gone up from what I paid for one, http://www.crownhill.co.uk/product.php?prod=1557 there is a duino library for it
[15:29] <Matt_soton> being not processor specific it has to be done that way with fatfs
[15:30] Action: SpeedEvil becomes annoyed again at not being able to flash the controller in microSD cards.
[15:30] <Bob_G8NSV> I seem to remember using this as the arduino sd library screwed up my software serial ports? not sure it was a few years ago now
[15:31] <Matt_soton> arduino is nice until you try to mix libraries running at the same time it seems
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[15:33] <Elmar_PD3EM> doesn't look like messing up serial ports here.
[15:33] <Bob_G8NSV> can do some odd stuff I was told the order you include them in can have an effect but dont know enough about code to know if this is true
[15:34] <Bob_G8NSV> this was a very old version now this was about 4 years ago
[15:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> sunds like I need to dig deeper for a few nights ;-)
[15:34] <Bob_G8NSV> many revisions since then!!
[15:36] <Elmar_PD3EM> as soon as I enable logData(txBuffer); in the loop the software is looping from the enableing of the GPS.
[15:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> which is before the void loop()
[15:37] <Lunar_Lander> oh well, SD will be a thing for me to look onto too sometime
[15:37] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[15:37] <Lunar_Lander> what I thought about, when we talk about arduino
[15:37] <Lunar_Lander> assume we have a sensor
[15:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> I wanted to log all the strings to a SD card
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander> can we connect any sensor that puts out some voltage between 0 and 5 to the arduino so that it can read and understand it?
[15:38] <Elmar_PD3EM> should be possible if you check it agains the 5 volt reference voltage
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. when we build a custom device
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander> like a field mill or so
[15:38] <Bob_G8NSV> this little module saved a lot of agro due to it taking care of all the read/write to the card. it was very easy to use and as I recall used very little in the way of resources on the duino itself
[15:39] <Bob_G8NSV> I wrote it to log geophys dasta from a magnetometer or a resistivity meter
[15:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> sounds logical and best option Bob_G8NSV
[15:40] <Bob_G8NSV> they are nearly £50 now sure I only paid less than £20!
[15:42] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander: I had some simple code to do that.. can't find it at the moment :-(
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[15:42] <Lunar_Lander> no problem Elmar_PD3EM :)
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[15:58] <eroomde> cuddykid: storma nd thunder here now
[15:59] <fsphil-laptop> sweet
[15:59] <cuddykid> enjoy eroomde :D some blue sky here now :P
[15:59] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] ASTRA Altitude Controller Launch Sunday the 22nd of April"
[15:59] <fsphil-laptop> we've only had one good rumble of thunder here so far this year
[16:00] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] Re: ASTRA Altitude Controller Launch Sunday the 22nd of April"
[16:04] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander: the example code should be somewhere in the Arduino Cookbook
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[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> Elmar_PD3EM, ah the one by the developers themselves?
[16:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander: the O'Reily cookbook....
[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> with the robotic rabbit on it?
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11170
[16:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> yep. that's the one
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> hello
[16:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> GA Dan-K2VOL
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
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[17:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello GW8RAK
[17:11] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_lander
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[17:39] <griffonbot> Received email: Nigel Smart "Re: [UKHAS] PicoChu-5 Launch Announcement"
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[17:52] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: I've just updated my website http://t.co/Lg6De6kb with the info about the #HAB project I´m busy with. #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/194121541385076736]
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[18:56] <fsphil-laptop> only one launch this weekend. how strange
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[19:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] PicoChu-5 Launch Announcement"
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[20:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Nigel Smart "Re: [UKHAS] PicoChu-5 Launch Announcement"
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[20:28] <Laurenceb_> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mitsubishi%20light%20field%20camera&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CFoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.media.mit.edu%2F~raskar%2FMask%2FSig07CodedApertureOpticalHeterodyningLowRes.pdf&ei=d2eUT9KAL4aL8gPBrtTODA&usg=AFQjCNHoPvtz3iCkSqstB4jeIN_VsHrb7g&cad=rja
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> ^interesting
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[20:33] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> im thinking cheap kinect
[20:35] <r2x0t> isn't this what Lytro cam uses?
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> no
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[20:36] <Laurenceb_> that uses microlenses
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> so it can produce a load of low res refocussed images
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> this produces one ~normal quality image and depth information
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> much more useful imo
[20:37] <r2x0t> yes
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[20:37] <r2x0t> biggest problem with Lytro is small res
[20:37] Action: SpeedEvil is too tired ATM to read beyond the first line and the pretty hats.
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> also this is no more expensive than a normal webcam
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> its just got a mask in the optical path
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> I assume there are noise tradeoffs?
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> yes, it loses some signal
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> i wonder about phase masks
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> if you could come up with a way to get the color like that as well itd have much better snr than a normal camera
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[20:39] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> phase mask in from of the sensor causes diffraction patterns that encode color and an analogue of the depth info they get using ampltude masks
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[20:41] <SpeedEvil> I don't know if I believe that.
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> I mean - I can see it's theoretically possible.
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> But if it only works with a 24 bit sensor by the light of a nearby nuclear bomb with a fast lens :)
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> theres no loss of information
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> i guess it depends how linear the maths gets
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[20:44] <Laurenceb_> and so how it handles noise
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[20:44] <jdtanner> Evening all&just lost another auction on Fleabay for an AR8000 :(
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Yes, there is no loss of information.
[20:45] <jonsowman> jdtanner: how much did it go for?
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> In a perfectly linear noiseless system
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[20:45] <jdtanner> £117 in the end I think
[20:45] <jonsowman> jdtanner: did you specifically want the 8000?
[20:45] <jdtanner> jonsowman: it came down to me and one other&I'm just after a receiver :)
[20:46] <jdtanner> but they all go for slly money
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[20:46] <SpeedEvil> I want to make an argument about diffraction patterns requiring much larger groups of pixels than the blunt brush approach of bayer, leading to lower chroma resolution in practice.
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> But I can't back it up with cogent argument.
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> actually yeah
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[20:47] <Laurenceb_> you cant get n pixels with color from n pixels
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[20:47] <Laurenceb_> you need to block of filter
[20:48] <Laurenceb_> *or
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> Or make assumptions about the chroma scene
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[00:00] --- Mon Apr 23 2012