highaltitude.log.20120418

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[00:23] <Astrobiol> Just made my first successful satphone call :-) But had to roam along the riverfront for half an hour just to get the occasional fleeting signal, and even then I had to freeze my body into ramrod stiff contortions to keep it.
[00:23] <Dan-K2VOL> what network?
[00:24] <Randomskk> that sounds a bit poor given as they're meant to work everywhere :P
[00:25] <Astrobiol> That would suggest to me that the satellites (GlobalStar) were quite low on the horizon, at least on that particular overpass. How can I get hold of and interprete the epheresis for a particular pass? (Or is that something to do with phlebotomy??)
[00:25] <Dan-K2VOL> just use a smartphone app
[00:25] <Dan-K2VOL> do you have an iPhone or iPod touch?
[00:26] <Astrobiol> GlobalStar doesn't give non-stop coverage right now due to amplifier problems. They have a tool that tells you when useful overpasses do occur, but perhaps some overpasses are more equal than others?
[00:26] <r2x0t> Astrobiol: download some sat tracking app, load the TLE file, select all Globalsat sats and you can see where they are on sky
[00:27] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, might want to look into iridium, they've been great performing for me on data and phone
[00:27] <r2x0t> Iridium is much more reliable
[00:28] <Astrobiol> Thanks guys. Actually I have an iPad - did you have a particular app in mind? The GS phone worked better at my lab, which is on top of a 450ft hill! So I think elevation is key? The reason I got GS is that the 'phone was £78 on eBay
[00:29] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, GoSatWatch is perfect
[00:29] <Dan-K2VOL> just select the sats you want to see, I use that for Iridium for White Star
[00:31] <Astrobiol> and also the basic contract is only ?10 a month right now (bargain due to coverage probs?). They're launching replacement sats. In an open space with no buildings on the horizon it should work pretty well?!
[00:31] <Randomskk> and even if it doesn't it might start working when a good pass goes by
[00:32] <r2x0t> you are using just small handheld phone or something bigger>?
[00:33] <Astrobiol> Thanks for the GoSat tip. Voice on GS is meant to be better than Iridium with less latency, because it's "bent pipe" (lots of ground stations) not sat-to-sat relaying like Iridium. We should meet up some time to have a satphone bake-off :-)
[00:34] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[00:37] <Astrobiol> It's a bloody huge 2000-era brick like an early 1980s mobile. You can actually put a standard GSM sim in as well and use it as a normal mobile :-) Rumour has it that GS has masses of unsold stock. They're only £200 brand new.
[00:38] <r2x0t> I only played with Inmarsat gear, that was phone with big patch antenna about 20x30cm, so not really handheld
[00:38] <r2x0t> but worked fine down to ~5 deg elevation for sat
[00:39] <Astrobiol> Mine was probably ex-U.K government civil emergency stock apparently. Ironically it might make a great balloon uplink since obviously elevation is HIGH and you could get 9600baud. £78 but 400g! I'm looking into dedicated satmodems too
[00:39] <r2x0t> 9600Bd is very nice
[00:41] <Astrobiol> And that's basically plug-and-play. You dial #777 and you get straight onto the internet - it's basically a satphone ISP. Short data bursts (15s) cost much less. I'll buy the cable and try it out
[00:41] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone want to join the White Star mission control training sim tonight?
[00:44] <Astrobiol> Thanks for the WhiteStar invite but I've got an early start, soz
[00:44] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[00:44] <Astrobiol> Inmarsat handhelds only £300 now and give 0.5meg internet!
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[00:49] <r2x0t> subscription is expensive tho
[00:49] <r2x0t> you can find even cheaper BGAN modems on ebay
[00:50] <Astrobiol> BGAN? Also where do I find the TLE file for GlobalStar? Playing with GoSat now :-)
[00:50] <Dan-K2VOL> it should be there already
[00:51] <r2x0t> http://www.celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/globalstar.txt
[00:56] <Astrobiol> Many thanks guys, it loaded perfectly :-) using the sky view some GS make clear high-declination passes and some skirt the horizon... Pretty much as we'd guessed. So I guess it's all about picking the better passes
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[03:59] <hq1024> what do you guys know about the fastest land vehicle possible?
[03:59] <hq1024> would the ground effect tear something apart if it tired to go mach 3, hoovering via a superconductor or something?
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[05:00] <x-f> umm..
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[05:56] <SamSilver> x-f: pfff
[05:58] <x-f> wasntme
[05:59] <x-f> good morning, Dave
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[06:28] <SamSilver> Java time - Kenyan Mocha Java
[06:28] <SamSilver> afk
[06:29] <SamSilver> opps sorry anyone want one?
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[07:14] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:15] <UpuWork> morning
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[07:18] <daveake> morning
[07:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> good morning
[07:20] <UpuWork> hi Elmar
[07:20] <jcoxon> hmmm my laptop battery has really deteriorated recently
[07:20] <Elmar_PD3EM> hi upu
[07:20] <UpuWork> hey daveake http://ava.upuaut.net/files/iPhone_Chase_Car_App_Proposal.pdf
[07:20] <UpuWork> note features
[07:20] <jcoxon> lasts about an hour now :-(
[07:20] <UpuWork> they do jcoxon but watch the 3rd party ones
[07:21] <UpuWork> as they are universally rubbish
[07:21] <Morseman> GM all
[07:21] <jcoxon> yeah its my 3rd battery
[07:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> is this another reason that I should buy an iPhone?
[07:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> ;-)
[07:21] <jonsowman> jcoxon: macbook?
[07:21] <UpuWork> thats a proposal it doesn't exist yet :)
[07:21] <jcoxon> jonsowman, yeah
[07:21] <daveake> UpuWork 3rd function distance and direction to a landed payload for use on foot
[07:22] <UpuWork> yup well the "elite" style graph should auto scale in
[07:22] <UpuWork> so as you walk it will reduce to 200 m 100 m etc
[07:22] <jonsowman> jcoxon: if you go into About My Mac, what does it say under capacities? also, was it replaced by apple?
[07:22] <daveake> Which really is just remembering the last position and also you (e) about manual entry
[07:22] <daveake> ^ your ( e )
[07:23] <UpuWork> ah yes thats a feature I added when I spoke to the Dev
[07:23] <UpuWork> offline mode
[07:23] <UpuWork> he seems to think he can make it talk to a laptop
[07:23] <jcoxon> jonsowman, its just an old macbook so i've swapped it
[07:23] <daveake> Currently I use a basic GPS app showing long/lat, and have the position on a piece of paper :)
[07:23] <UpuWork> he was even looking through the dl-fldigi code and considering decode the signal on the phone but that may be pushing it
[07:23] <jcoxon> full charge is 2351
[07:24] <jonsowman> does it also say "original capacity" or something?
[07:24] <daveake> Also, showing relative altitude might be handy so you know if you need to start looking up :D
[07:24] <jcoxon> jonsowman, nah
[07:24] <jonsowman> hmm ok, CoconutBattery will give you some info on battery health if you can be bothered to install it
[07:24] <UpuWork> does that too have you see the elite radar thingy ?:)
[07:25] <daveake> :)
[07:25] <daveake> hadn't scrolled down
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[07:26] <daveake> "the Dave Akerman mode" lol
[07:26] <UpuWork> sure the top info panes can be tarted up a little
[07:26] <fsphil> elite was cool
[07:26] <UpuWork> ah he notices :)
[07:26] <jcoxon> jonsowman, interesting, design cap is 5020
[07:26] <jcoxon> now its 2351
[07:27] <jonsowman> yeah, explains your battery life
[07:27] <jonsowman> where was the new battery from?
[07:27] <jcoxon> online somewhere
[07:27] <jcoxon> i'd forgotten that my macbook is 49months old
[07:27] <jcoxon> so 4 years
[07:28] <daveake> UpuWork I don't have an iPhone, but I do have a book on Android programming ...
[07:28] <jonsowman> pretty good going :) you could see how much an official apple battery is, they're not awful iirc
[07:28] <UpuWork> I think Pryish is doing Android ?
[07:28] <jonsowman> mine's 2.5 years old and is still at 82% health
[07:28] <jonsowman> though mine is the integrated non-removeable type
[07:29] <UpuWork> non removable battery
[07:29] <UpuWork> oh Apple what will you do next
[07:29] <jcoxon> jonsowman, yeah 2008, eek
[07:29] <jcoxon> this laptop has done well
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[07:29] <jonsowman> UpuWork: to be fair, it means they really do get 7 odd hours battery life, and will replace it for free if it loses more than 20% capacity in 5 years
[07:30] <UpuWork> oh ok fair enough
[07:30] <jonsowman> jcoxon: yep, no complaints :)
[07:30] <jonsowman> the question now is if you want to pay for a new battery
[07:31] <jcoxon> indeed
[07:31] <jcoxon> there comes a point where you've got to cut your losses
[07:31] <jonsowman> and grab a nice new pro/air? :D
[07:32] <jcoxon> hehe
[07:33] <jcoxon> we'll have to see
[07:34] <jonsowman> :)
[07:35] <jcoxon> 94 on amazon
[07:35] <jonsowman> hmm, more than i remembered
[07:36] <jcoxon> yeah there seem to be some discounted ones
[07:37] <jcoxon> might be time to think of a new setup
[07:37] <jcoxon> still got my G5 case to fill
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[07:38] <jonsowman> yeah, i was thinking of building my current desktop using a G5 case
[07:38] <jonsowman> they're very pretty
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[08:35] <eroomde> jcoxon: thinkpad x61
[08:35] <eroomde> put an ssd in
[08:36] <eroomde> about £150 total
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[08:36] <eroomde> i've realised the err of my ways buying expensive computer harware now
[08:36] <eroomde> when i spend my life in a terminal
[08:36] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:37] <jcoxon> perhaps
[08:37] <jcoxon> i like osx
[08:37] <eroomde> i guess it's ok
[08:37] <eroomde> i probably would want to keep something appley in my life infact
[08:38] <jcoxon> when the revolution comes?
[08:38] <jcoxon> just in case
[08:38] <jcoxon> when apple take over the world
[08:38] <eroomde> yes
[08:38] <eroomde> exactly
[08:38] <eroomde> that and photoshop
[08:38] <fsphil> yea, I've photoshop on my mac
[08:39] <fsphil> about the only think I boot osx for :)
[08:39] <eroomde> yeah
[08:39] <eroomde> the rest of my life is just terminal and chrome
[08:39] <eroomde> and eagle
[08:40] <eroomde> and linux still does annoying things
[08:40] <eroomde> hardware acceleration with nvidia cards was broken in the latest flash update
[08:40] <eroomde> every human looks blue
[08:42] <UpuWork> Whats up with Photoshop on the PC ?
[08:46] <eroomde> oh god
[08:46] <eroomde> windows
[08:46] <eroomde> shouldn't even have to go there
[08:46] <UpuWork> I never got this at all
[08:47] <UpuWork> I mean I know I'm a Windows boy but I do use other O/S all the time
[08:47] <zyp> I'm a command line user, that's why I like os x :D
[08:47] <eroomde> yeah i think i was being facetious
[08:47] <UpuWork> Windows 7 is rock solid, quick, stuff just works on it
[08:48] <eroomde> which is also the only word in the english language with all of the vowels used once in the right order
[08:48] <UpuWork> lol
[08:48] <eroomde> but basically i think once you get used to a command line it's tough to go back
[08:48] <eroomde> i've found that anyway
[08:48] <UpuWork> well Microsoft are pushing it like mad in the new servers
[08:48] <UpuWork> unfortunately powershell makes bash look easy
[08:49] <eroomde> i'm mostly programming and having a command line and unix utilities just gets burned into my way of thinking
[08:49] <eroomde> i find going to windows like being in france
[08:49] <eroomde> i can get by
[08:49] <zyp> to a unix user, powershell looks like utter shit
[08:49] <eroomde> but i don't know enough of the language to have a personality
[08:49] <UpuWork> its very very powerful zyp but far too complex
[08:49] <zyp> looks like a bad excuse for real functionality
[08:50] <UpuWork> well it has to have real functionality as some of the new servers are GUIless
[08:50] <eroomde> that and just having to download 3rd party tools to do basic things like ssh/sftp
[08:50] <eroomde> which seems unforgivable
[08:50] <eroomde> but i do use windows for cad
[08:51] <eroomde> there's no alternative really
[08:51] <eroomde> not a good one anyway
[08:51] <UpuWork> Eagle ?
[08:51] <eroomde> i mean mechanical cad sorry
[08:51] <UpuWork> ok
[08:51] <eroomde> 3d modelling
[08:53] <zyp> I like os x, it's strikes a good balance between being cli friendly and otherwise useful
[08:53] <eroomde> agreed
[08:53] <eroomde> but it still has some quirks
[08:53] <fsphil> I don't like the way the mouse moves. It's such a trivial thing, but it drives me mad
[08:53] <eroomde> the package management issue is much better than it was a year ago which is good
[08:53] <eroomde> homebrew is great
[08:53] <fsphil> the acceleration is all wrong
[08:53] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] MONDO launches Saturday"
[08:53] <eroomde> yeah the mouse stuff is madenning
[08:53] <eroomde> i dislike using eagle on osx because of that
[08:54] <fsphil> and adjusting the speed in the settings doesn't help
[08:54] <zyp> I were a linux user for five years or so before I bought a mac, now an os x user for four years
[08:54] <eroomde> there's a delay in the kernel
[08:55] <eroomde> about 30ms or something
[08:55] <eroomde> you can't get around it
[08:55] <fsphil> is that what it is. interesting
[08:55] <eroomde> sucks balls
[08:55] <UpuWork> probably Apple deciding if they are going to allow you to move the mouse in that manner
[08:55] <eroomde> yeah i read an article about it a few weeks ago
[08:56] <zyp> aren't that due to triple buffering of the screen or something?
[08:56] <zyp> so mouse pointer is buffered by two frames or so
[08:57] <eroomde> "The problem is caused by a bug somewhere at the windowserver level of Mac OS X, and not by a mouse driver. You can supposedly avoid the issue by disabling QuartzExtreme."
[08:57] <zyp> I've read about it, but quite honestly I don't really notice it myself
[08:57] <eroomde> which is compatible with what zyp is saying
[08:58] <eroomde> i do notice it
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[09:00] <fsphil> it's been there for a while
[09:01] <eroomde> i notice it switching between os's anyway
[09:01] <fsphil> I don't remember it on the old pre-osx macs
[09:01] <eroomde> since 10.4 apparently
[09:01] <fsphil> yea, my mac is 10.4 and it does it
[09:01] <eroomde> so about 2006
[09:01] <eroomde> my first mac
[09:01] <eroomde> my first unix encounter even
[09:01] <fsphil> linux on the same mac works fine :)
[09:02] <eroomde> i remember someone showing me i could 'shell' into a pc in the engineering department on my mac and use matlab by adding '-X'
[09:02] <eroomde> i felt i was in the presense of a 1337 hacker god
[09:02] <fsphil> I played with a mac in PC World (spit) when OS X first came out. Remember opening the terminal and trying all the usual linux commands I used and being amazed when they worked
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[09:03] <eroomde> still get bitten by the odd bug, or rather difference between osx and linux
[09:03] <eroomde> like case sensitivity on filenames
[09:03] <eroomde> that's screwed me up the bum when working ona remote machine
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[09:03] <eroomde> i think it was our airship actuaklly
[09:03] <zyp> that's a filesystem difference, not an os difference
[09:03] <eroomde> which ran arch linux on a pc104 stack
[09:03] <eroomde> yes indeed
[09:04] <eroomde> but it just never occured to me until it occured to me, if you see what i mean
[09:04] <zyp> yes
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[09:04] <eroomde> kept wondering why i was scping a config file to the airship but nothing on the airship was changing
[09:05] <eroomde> nvm
[09:05] <zyp> it's pretty much a non-issue if you're aware of it unless you're doing weird stuff
[09:05] <zyp> like some build scripts tend to do
[09:06] <zyp> android build framework suggests to build on a disk image with case sensitivity turned on for that reason
[09:06] <eroomde> sensible
[09:07] <eroomde> yeah it was entirely me fault for doing something so unrobust as to have file names differentiated by case
[09:07] <eroomde> not sensible at all
[09:07] <eroomde> but i just did it without thinking
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[09:22] <eroomde> UpuWork: another amusing haiku-come-existential-crisis from alan
[09:22] <eroomde> Yes, I try to find an audio capture of MONDO-1 from 2012-04-14.
[09:22] <eroomde> Wait please, I don't sure if I have it ?
[09:24] <earthshine> Morning
[09:28] <UpuWork> lol
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[09:29] <UpuWork> its almost like you can see his brain working via e-mail
[09:30] <daveake> Wish I had one that worked
[09:31] <Bob_G8NSV> hi dave
[09:32] <Bob_G8NSV> hi upu
[09:32] <Bob_G8NSV> got my rfm22 sending rtty but having issues changing baud rate to 50
[09:33] <jcoxon> Bob_G8NSV, timing issue?
[09:33] <Bob_G8NSV> yes without doubt board is a nano v3 16mhz
[09:33] <Bob_G8NSV> 10000 gives 100 baud
[09:34] <Bob_G8NSV> decodes fine in fldigi
[09:34] <Bob_G8NSV> but hals is not 50 baud!!
[09:34] <Bob_G8NSV> half
[09:34] <jonsowman> do two seperate commands
[09:34] <jonsowman> rather than delay(20000), do delay(10000) twice
[09:34] <Bob_G8NSV> what is the correct formula to work this out cant google it
[09:35] <Bob_G8NSV> ahh just trying that thanks
[09:35] <UpuWork> yeah Arduinos can't do timing
[09:35] <UpuWork> do 2 seperate delays
[09:35] <jonsowman> i think that command only takes a uint16
[09:35] <jonsowman> er
[09:35] <jonsowman> no, but something like that
[09:35] <Bob_G8NSV> writing to board as i type
[09:36] <jonsowman> maximum is 16000 or something
[09:37] <Bob_G8NSV> yep thats done it
[09:37] <Bob_G8NSV> thank you gentlemen!!
[09:37] <jonsowman> np
[09:39] <daveake> Now it's working, throw that aay and use a timer interrupt :)
[09:39] <daveake> away
[09:40] <Bob_G8NSV> not quite right yet fldigi is missing the first few characters of every tx string
[09:40] <jcoxon> Bob_G8NSV, is your sql on?
[09:41] <jcoxon> on fldigi that is
[09:41] <Bob_G8NSV> fine tuning noff now
[09:41] <Bob_G8NSV> but dont think it was set
[09:41] <gonzo_> I agree, timing loops are nasty
[09:42] <Bob_G8NSV> its missing the $$ but worked fine at 100 baud~?
[09:43] <Bob_G8NSV> using Navracs Ozzie code
[09:43] <Bob_G8NSV> so will be based on the rj harrison rttyroutines
[09:45] <Bob_G8NSV> will play more got to strip out a lot of stuff and add gps code for nmea so loads more to do yet
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[09:48] <navrac-work> hi bob - sorry i want around last night, forgot I'd left mirc running o the laptop
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[09:52] <Bob_G8NSV> hi navrac just playing with my rfm 22
[09:53] <Bob_G8NSV> using your sample ozzie code to test
[09:53] <Bob_G8NSV> got to strip out the rx bits and re-write for my nmea gps
[09:54] <jcoxon> Bob_G8NSV, you might be interested in my rfm code
[09:55] <jcoxon> https://github.com/jamescoxon/PicoAtlas/blob/master/Pico6MK3/sketch_apr02b/sketch_apr02b.ino
[09:55] <jcoxon> especially if you are using a ublox gps
[09:55] <Bob_G8NSV> Thanks jcoxon will take a look
[09:56] <jonsowman> yes, please don't forget to sat airborne mode
[09:56] <Bob_G8NSV> will be using a different gps nmea only very cheap as flights should not go above this modules 14Km limit
[09:56] <jonsowman> we've had more than enough of that
[09:56] <jonsowman> :P
[09:57] <Bob_G8NSV> solar flight sub 2m envelope around 8Km similar to normal pico flight!!
[10:00] <jonsowman> yep, but set nav mode anyway
[10:00] <jonsowman> it will help it get/keep a lock
[10:00] <jonsowman> in ground based "portable" mode (default) it won't expect those sorts of dynamic conditions
[10:01] <jcoxon> anyone got some good screenshots of spacenear.us?
[10:01] <jcoxon> with a flight in progress
[10:01] <jcoxon> perhaps with green lines to listeners
[10:03] <number10> I have some at home - if you cant get any before this evening
[10:03] <jcoxon> no hurry
[10:04] <Bob_G8NSV> this unit does not have a nav mode,just selectable nmea sentences
[10:05] <jcoxon> Bob_G8NSV, don't worry about it then
[10:05] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:05] <UpuWork> yeah jcoxon
[10:05] <UpuWork> 1 sec
[10:05] <UpuWork> not sure they have the lines to the listeners
[10:06] <jcoxon> anything will do
[10:06] <jcoxon> the current tracks are a bit messy
[10:06] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/yHWu8.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sgoIY.jpg http://i.imgur.com/DClLG.jpg
[10:06] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/PcRmL.jpg (Oz)
[10:06] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/zfMf2.jpg
[10:07] <UpuWork> sure one of those will do
[10:08] <jcoxon> perfect
[10:08] <jcoxon> i've already got the ozzie1
[10:11] <UpuWork> I can send you the presentation i did on it, but it was aimed at a non technical audience
[10:11] <jcoxon> nah its cool
[10:11] <UpuWork> so lots of pretty pictures and videos no technical details :)
[10:11] <jcoxon> i've finished my slides
[10:11] <UpuWork> ok
[10:12] <jcoxon> now need to make it look nice
[10:13] <UpuWork> just slap a panaroma is the back drop
[10:13] <jcoxon> hehe
[10:13] <jcoxon> also its going to be narrated
[10:13] <jcoxon> so need to record it
[10:13] <jcoxon> eek
[10:17] <UpuWork> can't wait to see it :)
[10:17] <kokey> what's it for?
[10:17] <jcoxon> need to get my hands on a relatively up todate version of powerpoint
[10:18] <kokey> I guess you can't use keynote
[10:18] <jcoxon> kokey, i'm presenting at teh dayton hamvention hab forum
[10:19] <jcoxon> about ukhas and pico balloons
[10:19] <jcoxon> right i better be off
[10:19] <jcoxon> cya
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[10:25] <navrac-work> Bob_G8NSV - the ozzie code is a bit messy - all first attempt/experimental stuff - you might find it easier to look at jcoxons which mines was based on before I started tinkering.....
[10:26] <Bob_G8NSV> am looking at both! It will take me a bit of time to figure it out and doubtless some help from those who have done this before!
[10:27] <Bob_G8NSV> got it sending constant rtty now but had issues with baud rates
[10:28] <navrac-work> you are using a 16mhz one - ozzie and picoatlas both used 8MHz so you will need to call the delay twice - and then tweak it till its reliable
[10:30] <daveake> If you have a 'scope or logic analyser, those are great for checking the timing
[10:31] <UpuWork> I could do with a scope
[10:32] <daveake> I bought an Owon one. You get a lot for your money with these Chinese ones.
[10:32] <fsphil> readable manual for one
[10:32] <kokey> daveake: which one?
[10:33] <daveake> DS7102
[10:34] <daveake> SDS7102 I mean
[10:34] <kokey> hehe, yeah I eventually figured out it's SDS just as you said it
[10:34] <daveake> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180819023511&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123#ht_2411wt_1165
[10:35] <kokey> daveake: nice
[10:35] <daveake> Yeah I was going on the label which says Smart DS7102
[10:36] <kokey> I wonder when the prices on these things will drop when it will be a simple USB device or something
[10:36] <daveake> Seen the Seeedstudio Nano things?
[10:37] <daveake> Built into an mp3 player case, basically
[10:37] <daveake> With display
[10:37] <kokey> that's pretty cool
[10:37] <kokey> very cheap too
[10:38] <daveake> Yep
[10:38] <daveake> I have one in my toolkit for when I'm on site
[10:38] <daveake> Only used a couple of times but saved a lot of time
[10:38] <kokey> I see Oscium iphone/pad ones are just under £200
[10:39] <daveake> The Owon btw connects to a PC app via USB or network, then you get a live display and you can take screenshots or log to a file
[10:41] <Bob_G8NSV> navrac_work the tweak till its reliable will be fun!!!
[10:43] <navrac-work> well - i tried it on a nano and had to establish the lowest and highest delays that worked and opted for something in the middle. Then decided it was too heavy anyway and went back to the 8mhz pro
[10:43] <daveake> highest/lowest/middle - good plan
[10:44] <navrac-work> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-OWON-100Mhz-Oscilloscope-SDS7102-1G-s-large-8-LCD-LAN-VGA-3-years-warranty-/261001057339?pt=UK_Sports_TableTennis_RL&hash=item3cc4e0143b#ht_1537wt_1190
[10:44] <navrac-work> ooh tempting...
[10:44] <Bob_G8NSV> a lot of tweaking and loading to the board then!
[10:44] <daveake> Did that myself before I had the logic analyser (a very good purchase)
[10:44] <navrac-work> probably easier than getting my scope/logic analyser sent back from where i left it
[10:44] <Bob_G8NSV> wow thats neat
[10:45] <navrac-work> £255 - mind you probably 20% tax + £10-20 hqndling fees
[10:45] <daveake> Weeeeelll .... mine (which was $420 so about the same price) was labelled as being worth £25
[10:45] <daveake> Customs/VAT came to £6-something
[10:46] <navrac-work> im just interested in the category.....
[10:46] <navrac-work> dont suppose he gets many hits in there
[10:46] <Bob_G8NSV> sports tennis? could be a racket!!
[10:46] <navrac-work> oh dear...
[10:46] <Bob_G8NSV> you get bu**er all!!
[10:47] <gonzo_> well the ball is in your court
[10:47] <daveake> You can net-work it
[10:47] <navrac-work> quick - shut up before daveake notices
[10:47] <navrac-work> too late
[10:47] <Bob_G8NSV> mind you you should get your cash back if its paypal
[10:47] <gonzo_> sorry, I'll try not to string it out too much
[10:47] <fsphil> nice http://www.speedtest.net/result/1901093239.png
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> Labelling as low value is a major problem when it comes to insurance.
[10:48] <daveake> grrrr
[10:48] <UpuWork> oh CCS :)
[10:48] <Bob_G8NSV> any ideas why I need to put padding characters at begining of a telemetry strin? baud rate wrong?
[10:48] <gonzo_> if the verdor does it, it's their liability
[10:48] <UpuWork> I just pulled my kit out of CCS
[10:48] <Bob_G8NSV> fldigi needs an extra one to "sync"
[10:49] <gonzo_> It's probably because, it's having difficulty seeing whjat is a start bit and data bit
[10:49] <navrac-work> sounds like slightly off timing
[10:50] <fsphil> UpuWork, they not so good?
[10:50] <gonzo_> I found that putting 2 start bits in the TX and setting it to one bit in fldigi helped things sync faster mid packet
[10:50] <jonsowman> Bob_G8NSV: how many stop bits?
[10:50] <navrac-work> are the start and stop bits set right
[10:50] <UpuWork> Yes and no, Pete who runs it is a really nice guy
[10:50] <UpuWork> but in 12 months we had 8 outages
[10:50] <Bob_G8NSV> fldigi doesent seem to care i put 2 space characters in. misses first one sees second and green decodes
[10:50] <gonzo_> or put a period of idle in first (or a few null characters to fluch the framing out)
[10:50] <UpuWork> vs none in 4 years at Metronet
[10:51] <gonzo_> nulls are better than ascii sopace
[10:51] <Bob_G8NSV> how do I put a null in?
[10:51] <fsphil> transmit a 0x00
[10:51] <daveake> Interesting
[10:51] <Bob_G8NSV> thanks fsphil
[10:51] <fsphil> UpuWork, interesting. I'll keep a close eye on that. so far no outages but it's relatively new
[10:51] <jonsowman> 0x55 is better
[10:51] <navrac-work> I always use 0x55
[10:52] <jonsowman> Bob_G8NSV: use two stop bits as well
[10:52] <gonzo_> prob with 55 or AA is that it's all edges and if you start framing mid byte, you finish mid the bext byte and so on
[10:52] <jonsowman> gonzo_: not with 2 stop bits
[10:53] <Bob_G8NSV> using your code modded so stop bits should be in??#
[10:53] <fsphil> yea, 2 stop bits is much more reliable in fldigi
[10:53] <jonsowman> the start and stop are clear
[10:53] <fsphil> shouldn't be, but is
[10:53] <gonzo_> a null means you finish mid byte, it will wait for the next start bit before the next frame
[10:53] <gonzo_> nulls are totally unambuigulus
[10:54] <gonzo_> ?!
[10:54] <daveake> unambuglus should be a word
[10:54] <daveake> +u I can't even spell non-words :D
[10:54] <gonzo_> reserved for when you have a cold
[10:55] <navrac-work> Bob_G8NSV just a second.. need to dig out the old code
[10:55] <daveake> "Our new cough ready is packed with Unambugulus Diffidum"
[10:55] <daveake> remedy
[10:55] <daveake> grr
[10:55] <eroomde> i am watching 'Blast! The Movie'
[10:55] <eroomde> required watching for habbers
[10:55] <gonzo_> I blame my typo's on vnc. As it's gione before the display updates
[10:56] <eroomde> it's brilliant
[10:56] <navrac-work> ozzie code is already two stop bits
[10:56] <navrac-work> its in void rtty_txbyte (char c)
[10:58] <navrac-work> if you are using ozzie 1 code I seem to remember it was 7 bit - have you got fldigi set to 8? Although I would have thought it wouldnt decode at all
[10:58] <gonzo_> two preabmle nulls should be sufficient to clear an 8 bit uart. So I always use three, for my RS485 systems. As you alsways get a bad frame when coming out opf tristate
[10:59] <Bob_G8NSV> its set to 8 its ozzie 2 code with bits i dont need stripped out
[10:59] <navrac-work> for (i=0;i<7;i++)
[10:59] <Bob_G8NSV> working now 2 0x00 characters
[10:59] <navrac-work> so its txing 7 bits
[11:00] <navrac-work> i wanted to shorten the tx time so lopped a bit off IIRC
[11:00] <Bob_G8NSV> yes fldigi set to 7 and working
[11:00] <navrac-work> sorry - didnt document that
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[11:01] <Bob_G8NSV> running at 100 baud will now try to get it reliable at 50
[11:01] <gonzo_> who's for 5bit baudot?!
[11:01] <navrac-work> I'm in...
[11:01] <jonsowman> you don't get a * character
[11:01] <jonsowman> so have fun with the checksum
[11:01] <jonsowman> :)
[11:01] <Bob_G8NSV> original rtty Creed 7b's and all that!!
[11:01] <fsphil> baudot must die
[11:01] <navrac-work> well we'll just have to rewrite fldigi to cope
[11:02] <jonsowman> i'm with fsphil
[11:02] <gonzo_> I did my first tracker for baudot, just for fun. And decoded it on my mech tty.
[11:02] <Bob_G8NSV> clack clack clack clakclack clack clack clakclack clack clack clakclack clack clack clakclack clack clack clak DING!!
[11:02] <navrac-work> really were only sending numbers apart from the payload name so think of all the bandwidth we're wasting
[11:02] <eroomde> ibm model m keyboard Bob_G8NSV ?
[11:02] <Bob_G8NSV> I remember the days, spent hours adjusting the speed govener
[11:03] <gonzo_> Ah, the avi is still on my server...: www.g0nzo.co.uk/misc/tty/
[11:03] <fsphil> if you really wanted to save space we could use varicode instead of ascii
[11:04] <fsphil> one tuned for numbers
[11:04] <Bob_G8NSV> ascii is wasteful
[11:04] <Bob_G8NSV> slower speeds but more info
[11:04] <daveake> It is. The whole thing is wastefull really.
[11:04] <fsphil> plus that would also get rid of the start and stop bits
[11:04] <gonzo_> be easy enough to code in the flight cpu, as I think we are all on soft uarts?
[11:05] <fsphil> yea, hardware uarts rarely work at 50 baud
[11:05] <fsphil> and it's usually doing gps anyway
[11:05] <jonsowman> the whole 50 baud RTTY thing is basically the simplest but technically worst thing we could be doing
[11:05] <daveake> yep
[11:05] <gonzo_> well, it will be interesting to see what r2x0t comes up with
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[11:06] <eroomde> but we can fix this!!!!
[11:06] <eroomde> http://7.asset.soup.io/asset/3102/5015_9229_960.jpeg
[11:06] <daveake> lol
[11:06] <russss> heh
[11:07] <jonsowman> thanks ed
[11:07] <eroomde> i'm here to help
[11:08] <jonsowman> lol
[11:09] <eroomde> sloppy standards are often the most successful though
[11:09] <eroomde> we should bear this in mind
[11:09] <jonsowman> hmm, rs232
[11:10] <jonsowman> simplicity is the key driver for its, and 50 baud RTTY's success
[11:10] <fsphil> it's worked really well though
[11:11] <navrac-work> Also think how much fun we have as we get the partial strings coming in and trying to work out what they were-
[11:11] <eroomde> yeah
[11:11] <eroomde> it basically does the job fine
[11:11] <jonsowman> yeah that's the thing
[11:11] <eroomde> which is letting us know where it is and get it back
[11:11] <jonsowman> it's mostly fine so the impetus to change it isn't there
[11:11] <daveake> And when the balloon bursts part way through sending a world record altitude ....
[11:11] <eroomde> if we want to change things we want to be because it lets us to some whole new world of sexiness
[11:11] <eroomde> which i think means a much higher data rate
[11:11] <jonsowman> yes
[11:11] <jonsowman> pictures \o/
[11:12] <eroomde> say 1.2kbs where you can get pics down or very much higher sensor data rates or something
[11:12] <navrac-work> well there isnt really much more to send back - other than pictures
[11:13] <jonsowman> "other than pictures"?
[11:13] <jonsowman> that's like, the holy grail
[11:13] <eroomde> video maybe :)
[11:13] <jonsowman> or 1080p video
[11:13] <navrac-work> although i wouldnt mind sending back compass/accelerometer data to see how the payload is being thrown around
[11:13] <fsphil> video would be possible with a good codec and the raspberry pi
[11:13] <eroomde> yeah all that higher rate data is very ionteresting
[11:13] <eroomde> say you fly into a storm cloud
[11:14] <eroomde> getting say 3hz attitude data back would be fascinating
[11:14] <Laurenceb> shall i make a gumstix payload?
[11:14] <eroomde> yes
[11:14] <eroomde> no
[11:14] <Laurenceb> need something to do with my newfound gumstix :P
[11:14] <eroomde> pick one ^
[11:14] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:14] <Laurenceb> i didnt realise it was such low power
[11:14] <navrac-work> Im not really into pictures - there enough people here taking really good pictures - I just look at theirs
[11:14] <Laurenceb> ~40ma
[11:15] <daveake> I'll need something to do with my raspberry pi when it arrives
[11:15] <daveake> next year
[11:15] <eroomde> :)
[11:15] <Laurenceb> also maybe i should hand it in to lost property
[11:15] <eroomde> yeah i do agree one can kind of get picture fatigue
[11:15] <eroomde> after the first 40 flights or so
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[11:15] <eroomde> i sort of felt like i'd seen them all
[11:15] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:15] <Laurenceb> see this is why i dont do any launches
[11:15] <eroomde> but then, no one flies a dslr with a super nice 14mm lens
[11:15] <daveake> have one. ain't flying it. :)
[11:15] <Laurenceb> someone needs to do return to base glider
[11:15] <zyp> Laurenceb, 40mA doing what? :p
[11:15] <kokey> I think when my raspberry pi arrives, I'll let my great grand children open the packaging
[11:15] <navrac-work> I like other peoples pictures.
[11:15] <Laurenceb> <-- someone
[11:16] <Laurenceb> zyp: just a bash terminal doing nothing
[11:16] <zyp> exactly
[11:16] <Laurenceb> but its only ~120 at full pelt
[11:17] <daveake> I want to do an Apollo command module replica, with the 3 parachutes, but hopefully without the sea landing
[11:18] <kokey> daveake: hehe, cool
[11:18] <daveake> Upward-facing video included, of course :)
[11:18] <eroomde> we tried 3 parachutes on nova 4
[11:19] <eroomde> which would have been 2007 i think
[11:19] <eroomde> was a massive disaster
[11:19] <daveake> and....
[11:19] <daveake> oh
[11:19] <navrac-work> Well Ozzie 1 was about uplinking, Ozzie2 is about solar power+ powersaving and ozzie3 is about differential/burst pressures - I think you can see where I'm heading..
[11:19] <eroomde> but that's because wee knew nothing about designing parachute recovery systems
[11:19] <kokey> Laurenceb: there's that canadian guy that did the glider but I think he lost his glider, but a very impressive project regardless
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[11:19] <Laurenceb> kokey: ive flown a rogallo a couple of times
[11:19] <Laurenceb> havent managed return to base yet
[11:20] <kokey> personally I'm keen on steerable parachutes
[11:20] <Laurenceb> but second flight demonstrated control and stable flight
[11:20] <daveake> Seems a lot more sensible than a glider
[11:20] <kokey> but I think it'll take a lot of experimentation to get a nice small design going
[11:20] <Laurenceb> parafoils can fold up
[11:20] <Laurenceb> rogallo you can chuck out of a window and itll go into a glide
[11:20] <kokey> a simple dome parachute with two flaps are steerable
[11:21] <Laurenceb> very poor glide ratio
[11:21] <Laurenceb> rogallo is bad enough
[11:21] <Laurenceb> 5 if you are lucky
[11:21] <navrac-work> who was it who soldered a pressure sensor onto a cable directly?
[11:21] <Laurenceb> 4mor elikely
[11:21] <Laurenceb> mr haxor?
[11:22] <eroomde> i guess reliable easy uplinks are the thing worth persuing in hab atm
[11:22] <Laurenceb> my flight only got 3.85
[11:22] <eroomde> gliders are fun but not mega necessary
[11:22] <Laurenceb> *cough* si4432
[11:23] <Laurenceb> turns out the ripstop nylon of ebay has high porosity
[11:23] <Laurenceb> and that matters a _lot_ for rogallos
[11:23] <kokey> hehe
[11:23] <kokey> I ordered a lot of fabric from ebay last night
[11:23] <kokey> but it's for fancy dress
[11:23] <Laurenceb> when i replaced the wing with polythene i got glide of 5
[11:23] <eroomde> the biggest arguement for SI units is looking at usa papers about parachute materials
[11:23] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:24] <eroomde> because their unit of porosity was so unforgivable i nearly projectile vomited
[11:24] <Laurenceb> theres a reason the fabric is on ebay
[11:24] <Laurenceb> it was rejected for chutes due to high porosity
[11:24] <Laurenceb> dont use it
[11:24] <eroomde> something like 'cubic foot slug inches of mercury'
[11:24] <Laurenceb> haha
[11:24] <kokey> I've decorated an old theatre entrance with parachute material
[11:25] <kokey> and as a bonus is was bright under UV light
[11:25] <kokey> cheap and fun
[11:25] <Laurenceb> see thats the only thing its useful for
[11:25] <Laurenceb> pity polythene rogallos look lame
[11:26] <eroomde> nah
[11:27] <eroomde> iain and i had a notion for some mega parachute
[11:27] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:ukhas_glider_project:p7270025.jpg?w=800
[11:27] <Laurenceb> that actually had a glide ratio of about 4, despite being all wrong
[11:27] <eroomde> a soft of carbon theread spiders web sandwiched by rf welded polythene
[11:27] <eroomde> or alumised kaptop
[11:27] <Laurenceb> wrong apex angle, wing not taught enough
[11:27] <eroomde> for high temp high q parachute deployment
[11:29] <Laurenceb> i got 5.5 with a similar design with better geometery
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[11:43] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I was wondering about aerobraking to plutonian orbit.
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> Which is ... challenging
[11:49] <Laurenceb> as you do
[11:50] <Laurenceb> i guess it could be useful for new horizons
[11:54] <eroomde> i'd be suprised if there was enough of an atmosphere to let you do that
[11:54] Action: SpeedEvil resists the urge to create a picture subtitled 'One does not simply aerobrake into Mordor'
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> There is - as long as you use a fairly lightwieght chute.
[11:54] <eroomde> i'd have thought that pluto's gravity is so weak, the atmosphere so thin, and your speeds so massive that you would just fling straight past and out into deep space
[11:54] <eroomde> like new horizons
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> The atmosphere is thin.
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[11:54] <SpeedEvil> But the scale height of helium helps enormously
[11:55] <UpuWork> ping cuddykid
[11:56] <cuddykid> bonjour UpuWork
[11:56] <UpuWork> yo media bunny can I delete the HABE track ?
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[11:56] <cuddykid> haha - yeah, certainly :)
[11:56] <cuddykid> it's a mess :P
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[12:10] <daveake> cuddykid All well on the media front?
[12:11] <cuddykid> daveake: yeah thanks :) all done and dusted, just waiting for payment now :P
[12:11] <daveake> Good luck with that :D
[12:11] <cuddykid> I know.. haha! thanks
[12:11] <cuddykid> submitted a grand breakdown
[12:11] <navrac-work> yep - welcome o the world of 90 days
[12:11] <daveake> a grand? too cheap ;)
[12:12] <daveake> (yes I know that's not what you meant)
[12:12] <eroomde> actually seems to be about the going rate for tv stuff
[12:12] <cuddykid> hah
[12:12] <eroomde> they don't pay aswell as other things
[12:12] <eroomde> we got about £6k for flying a branded mirrorball once
[12:12] <cuddykid> did it for just over 1/2 of that
[12:12] <cuddykid> :O
[12:12] <eroomde> about the same for a Ben!0 character
[12:12] <daveake> too cheap
[12:12] <number10> did you put in my tracking time cuddykid
[12:13] <cuddykid> time was the most expensive bit by far :P
[12:13] <cuddykid> thanks number10 btw
[12:13] <daveake> I did once earn £1.2k for 10 minutes work. Never gotten close since then :)
[12:13] <cuddykid> bloody hell! what was that for?!
[12:14] <daveake> Customer wanted to own the source code I'd written for a project years before.
[12:14] <Laurenceb> anyone here got eagle6.1 working on ubuntu 10.04?
[12:14] <cuddykid> oh nice :D
[12:14] <eroomde> 'i will try and fix this for you for £1200' when what you really mean is 'I already know what the problem is and can fix it trvially but you don;t know that'
[12:14] <Laurenceb> ie apart from me
[12:14] <eroomde> that's usually my fav :)
[12:14] <daveake> The 10 minutes is what it took to formulate a reply and email the zip file
[12:14] <cuddykid> haha
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[12:15] <daveake> Balances up with the days where I earn nothing. Lots of those of course.
[12:16] <eroomde> weekends
[12:16] <daveake> I'll send my bill for the recovery soon @D
[12:16] <eroomde> you don't realise how much each of those knots cost you daveake
[12:16] <eroomde> invoice is in the post
[12:16] <daveake> damn lol
[12:17] <daveake> Get knotted
[12:17] <jonsowman> Laurenceb: working on 11.10
[12:17] <cuddykid> :D
[12:17] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:17] <Laurenceb> thats easier iirc
[12:17] <jonsowman> okay
[12:17] <Laurenceb> ill copy the files over from my other pc
[12:17] <Laurenceb> i forgot how to do this :P
[12:17] Action: daveake sends bill for bacon butties
[12:17] <cuddykid> one thing I *really* need to improve on is stringing up the payload box - I'm shocking at that, usually WillDuckworth offers his great skills for that part
[12:18] <cuddykid> and tying knots.. though I got a little bit better this time
[12:18] <number10> eroomde could do a knot presentation at the next conference
[12:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> you should have learned about knots at the boy scouts cuddykid ;-)
[12:19] <cuddykid> lol
[12:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> or maybe someone can update the wiki with a knotting part
[12:20] <eroomde> i think the box harnesses are the sore point
[12:21] <number10> there is quite a good book on knots - http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Morrow-Guide-Knots-Climbing/dp/0688012264/ref=sr_1_15?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1334751654&sr=1-15
[12:21] <eroomde> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:knots
[12:21] <eroomde> upu seems to have got there in the last few days
[12:22] <UpuWork> I wrote that because of you
[12:24] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha good work UpuWork
[12:24] <UpuWork> its all eroomde's fault for showing us new knots the other weekend
[12:25] <daveake> This guy could have done with something better ... http://de.acidcow.com/pics/20120416/gifs_04.gif
[12:25] <eroomde> oh shit
[12:25] <UpuWork> that only looks mildy terrifying
[12:33] <daveake> If you're wondering how he got out of that ... full video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFSpNmjU84c
[12:34] <oh7lzb> A private pilot from my old hometown just got a life-saver award from the president
[12:34] <oh7lzb> He was dropping skydivers in Kuopio, and a tandem pair got stuck in the plane, outside, from some strap
[12:36] <oh7lzb> He had to take off his safety belts, find a knife, reach out from the door, down to the footstep and cut the tandem skydivers loose
[12:36] <oh7lzb> All this on a small private aircraft with no autopilot, last summer
[12:38] <eroomde> i think the emphasis with the knots is knowing how to do them when you have to build them around a loop or something
[12:39] <eroomde> i.e. the climber's 8 is very easy to do if you double up a length of rope and tie a normal overhand knot
[12:39] <eroomde> but then you have to loop it first onto another loop, it's more tricky
[12:40] <eroomde> ascii not the best medium to describe this
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[12:41] <daveake> wimp ;) http://ascii.co.uk/art/knots
[12:42] <GW8RAK> That's just confusing daveake
[12:42] <UpuWork> I am with eroomde on this one
[12:43] <mfa298> assuming your climbers 8 is the figure of 8 or double fig8 variant then that's always a useful knot
[12:44] <eroomde> yeah it's the double figure of 8
[12:45] <eroomde> just worth learning how to do it when you have to build it around a preexisting loop
[12:45] <mfa298> yep, knowing the various ways of tying it is good.
[12:45] <mfa298> bowline can always be a useful one but not always as easy to learn.
[12:47] <eroomde> there is too much stuff to learn, really
[12:47] <eroomde> it's a never ending battle
[12:47] <mfa298> and then there's the fun of different people using different names for knots.
[12:49] <eroomde> naming things seems to be the universal hard problem
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[12:53] <daveake> GW8RAK I wasn't being serious!
[12:54] <GW8RAK> That fact didn't escape me :)
[12:54] <GW8RAK> I like knots, but those ascii knots are impossible
[12:54] <daveake> Ah, good :)
[12:54] <daveake> yep
[12:55] <GW8RAK> I'm surprised the Alpine Butterfly is on the wiki. A very useful knot but not well known and difficult to tie
[12:55] <UpuWork> its not that hard
[12:55] <UpuWork> its the one I knoew
[12:55] <UpuWork> knoew
[12:55] <UpuWork> err
[12:55] <UpuWork> knew
[12:55] <eroomde> but not anymore?
[12:56] <eroomde> i can see a massive storm cloud coming across the valley towards us
[12:56] <UpuWork> must admit I did have to refresh my memory when I got to Daves that morning
[12:56] <eroomde> like the opening scenes of independence day
[12:56] <GW8RAK> There's a quick way of tying it and a slow way. Most place teach the slow way which is just confusing
[12:57] <UpuWork> gimmie 2 mins
[12:57] <UpuWork> I'll upload my photo guide I did to remind myself
[12:59] <UpuWork> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201107Knots
[13:00] <mfa298> doesn't look too bad. Bowline on a bight get's fun. I think I managed to tie that once.
[13:06] <Elwell> pah thats easy. pick something decorative out of ashleys if you fancy a challenge
[13:06] Action: Elwell did a nice rope swim-ladder from it once
[13:17] <eroomde> Elwell: if you are a knot afficionado (I am certainly not, i've just picked up 2 or 3 useful ones) can you think of a knot to nicely combine 4 loose ends to a point?
[13:18] <eroomde> this is for payload boxes where they have a line coming up from each corner of the top that they want to bring to a confluence that they can tie to the balloon line
[13:19] <eroomde> extra points if it combines with the balloon line
[13:27] <WillDuckworth> i use loops - then combine that
[13:27] <Elwell> eroomde: sadly I'd be guessing. I'd probably go for a bastardised figure-8 knot and throw in a couple of hitches below each one to make sure it didn't fail
[13:28] <eroomde> that's what i ended up doing
[13:28] <eroomde> a huge figure 8
[13:28] <eroomde> and some safeties with the loose ends
[13:28] <eroomde> but it wasn't the nicest
[13:31] <mfa298> best options I was thinking of was either put loops at the top of each string (double fig8 or bowline) and then use a loop in the string upwards from there to pull all those loops together.
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[13:31] <eroomde> yep that's a possibility
[13:31] <eroomde> just it's very difficult to get them all the right length
[13:31] <eroomde> and you end up with lopsided payload and so pictures
[13:33] <mfa298> bowline might make it easier as it's more adjustable.
[13:33] <mfa298> I'd also be a bit wary of the loops rubbing and cutting through the string.
[13:33] <mfa298> some massive fig8 with some hitches to secure the ends could work.
[13:34] <eroomde> tis what it ended up being
[13:34] <eroomde> i wish everything was braid
[13:34] <mfa298> I'm just wondering if you could do some variation on the anglers/ fishermans knot
[13:34] <mfa298> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisherman%27s_knot
[13:34] <eroomde> then you can forgo silly knots altogther and do a nice job with chinese fingers
[13:42] <fsphil> noaa's servers keep stalling. very annoying
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[13:50] <eroomde> it might be a flood or requests stalling noaas servers
[13:50] <eroomde> gedditt!!??!?!?!??
[13:50] <eroomde> flood of*
[13:52] <number10> lol
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[13:55] <gonzo_> go and wash you mouth out
[14:02] <cuddykid> created the invoice for currys cockup
[14:03] <cuddykid> £56 for petrol, time and inconvenience
[14:04] <UpuWork> good luck with that
[14:04] <cuddykid> think I'll need it
[14:05] <cuddykid> can't remember who pointed it out before but a CCS might do the trick if they refuse to budge
[14:05] <eroomde> CCS?
[14:05] <cuddykid> county court summons
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[14:12] <Darkside> hey, just realised
[14:12] <Darkside> there hasnt been an el-reg article about XABEN
[14:13] <Martin100> So then, how the hell does the tracker know the colour of my car?
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[14:21] <eroomde> our hut just gothit by lightning
[14:21] <UpuWork> on fire ?
[14:21] <eroomde> thankfully the power remains
[14:21] <eroomde> nah fine
[14:21] <eroomde> it's a rocket testing sight
[14:21] <eroomde> it's designed for storms
[14:22] <eroomde> lots of propellants around etc
[14:22] <eroomde> but still pretty spectacular and loud
[14:22] <cuddykid> wheres that eroomde
[14:23] <cuddykid> ?
[14:23] <fsphil> you angered god with your jokes :p
[14:23] <eroomde> westcott
[14:23] <eroomde> yes probably
[14:25] <fsphil> the lightning maps are mostly clear over the uk. a bit of a storm going on in france though
[14:25] <eroomde> i promise you there is a storm here now :)
[14:25] <cuddykid> http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning;sess=
[14:25] <fsphil> lol, I believe you
[14:25] <cuddykid> :P
[14:26] <fsphil> I think the one I use has a bit of a time lag
[14:26] <fsphil> http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?lang=en&subpage_0=12
[14:26] <eroomde> yes the ornage x's are right ontop of westcott
[14:26] <eroomde> north-east of oxford
[14:28] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjZRM6KgGbE
[14:29] <eroomde> i was at a wedding in brittany just before christmas
[14:30] <eroomde> the organist got the flu 2 days before the wedding
[14:30] <eroomde> so they got in the reserve
[14:30] <eroomde> who had had a stroke 2 months before and had lost use of her left hand
[14:30] <eroomde> and also her sight was going and her ability to sight-read and remember wasn't great
[14:30] <eroomde> so imagine here-comes-the-bride done in the style of that video
[14:30] <eroomde> it was extraordinarily painful and awkward
[14:31] <eroomde> the kind of thing simon callow's charaqcter in four weddings and a funeral would be bellowing his head off laughing at
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[14:42] <cuddykid> hmm, clawed back £19
[14:42] <cuddykid> better than nothing
[14:44] <daveake> Has hell frozen over? Customer emailed to tell me "thanks for all the help, especially as it was our fault not yours"
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[14:54] <Morseman> Cuddykid might have been me on the CCS idea :-)
[14:54] <cuddykid> that's right! great idea :D
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[15:38] <cuddykid> oh I hate stats
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[15:40] <Laurenceb> cuddykid: Remember that no matter how hot the woman, she is nothing but a bunch of atoms.
[15:41] <cuddykid> haha
[15:41] <UpuWork> yeah but how hot are Kate Beckinsdales atoms ?
[15:42] <fsphil> some women are made of anti-atoms
[15:43] <daveake> cuddykid - You'll be needing this - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dioVENabEuo/Tqn4IzIZK2I/AAAAAAAALDo/JWa07677vq4/s1600/The%2BBook%2BUnderstanding%2BWomen%2BHas%2BFinally%2BArrived%2BIn%2BBook%2BStores.jpg
[15:43] <cuddykid> lol
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[15:47] <Laurenceb> http://www.sociallyinept.com/companionship.htm
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[16:02] Action: kokey wonders the wisdom of ordering a trident to be delivered at work
[16:02] <kokey> ponders
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[16:05] <Laurenceb> as in nuclear missile?
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[16:14] <SamSilver> sub?
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[16:33] <Bob_G8NSV> well, now for the tricky bit, gps time on the flight computer
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[17:05] <Bob_G8NSV> anyone here familiar with arduino nss?
[17:06] <Bob_G8NSV> like tx/rx pin allocation?
[17:08] <x-f> i've used it, what's the problem?
[17:09] <Bob_G8NSV> how do you specify the tx/rx pins?
[17:09] <Bob_G8NSV> or does it work it out?
[17:11] <x-f> for example, NewSoftSerial gps(2, 3);
[17:11] <Bob_G8NSV> x-f and it determines the tx/rx itself?
[17:12] <x-f> first is RX, i think
[17:12] <Bob_G8NSV> aha couldnt find that in documentation!
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[17:32] <eroomde> my colleage just found a spider hanging down from the ceiling above some piece of equipment he was trying to delicately asseble
[17:32] <eroomde> literally this happened: http://i.imgur.com/ezPrz.jpg
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[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Isn't employing 3-year-olds illegal?
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[17:49] <gonzo_> g0nzo@server:~$ traceroute google.com
[17:49] <gonzo_> traceroute: Warning: google.com has multiple addresses; using 173.194.34.98
[17:49] <gonzo_> traceroute to google.com (173.194.34.98), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
[17:49] <gonzo_> 1 192.168.96.1 (192.168.96.1) 84.632 ms 59.398 ms 84.355 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 2 109.104.96.33 (109.104.96.33) 80.633 ms 22.586 ms 67.958 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 3 cg1-cg4.c4l.co.uk (84.45.90.126) 64.777 ms 57.444 ms 59.799 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 4 cg4-ringo.c4l.co.uk (84.45.90.54) 192.144 ms 177.770 ms 207.634 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 5 ringo-kusanagi.c4l.co.uk (84.45.90.134) 16.724 ms 22.642 ms 54.832 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 6 kusangi-kraken.c4l.co.uk (84.45.90.170) 67.812 ms 62.198 ms 64.277 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 7 google1.lonap.net (193.203.5.136) 67.239 ms 49.654 ms 54.251 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 8 209.85.255.76 (209.85.255.76) 64.968 ms 118.675 ms 22.413 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 9 209.85.253.47 (209.85.253.47) 22.755 ms 38.398 ms 38.324 ms
[17:49] <gonzo_> 10 lhr14s20-in-f2.1e100.net (173.194.34.98) 40.155 ms 19.526 ms 40.142 ms
[17:50] <gonzo_> g0nzo@server:~$
[17:50] <gonzo_> ooops, sorry
[17:50] <nigelvh> I was wondering what that was all about...
[17:51] <Upu> nmap -sS -P0 -v 109.104.96.33
[17:51] <Upu> oops
[17:51] <gonzo_> wrong window
[17:51] <Upu> err .1
[17:51] <nigelvh> Also seems to be a long hop to your gateway...
[17:51] <mfa298> I was getting concerned about that rtt to the first hop.
[17:52] <jonsowman> also you should call your server something other than "server"
[17:52] <jonsowman> :P
[17:52] <mfa298> does your network run on a wet piece of sting
[17:52] <mfa298> and if it does do you need to add water
[17:52] <nigelvh> Hey, copper is expensive these days. Lay off.
[17:52] <gonzo_> there are 70 miles of wlan in that link
[17:52] <nigelvh> That would do it
[17:53] <nigelvh> wifis are not known for low latency
[17:54] <mfa298> unless you go for the licensed bit of 802.11a
[17:54] <gonzo_> there are a few hops and lots of miles
[17:54] <gonzo_> but the only way to get in to the site
[17:55] <gonzo_> (other than paying BT thousands to run in new poles)
[17:55] <mfa298> that's all fine until someone decides to build a tall building in the middle of your wireless link.
[17:55] <nigelvh> Yeah.
[17:56] <mfa298> We had a similar link (but probably only around 4 miles) and someone put a building up in the middle of it.
[17:56] <nigelvh> Just switch to tcp/ip over HF packet
[17:56] <nigelvh> A blistering 300 baud
[17:57] <gonzo_> we are skimming the treeline on the one leg, so always worried what will happen after a few summers
[17:57] <gonzo_> need a helicopter with sharp blades
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[17:58] <nigelvh> Or a helicopter, a rope, and a guy with a chainsaw.
[17:58] <nigelvh> (because that's obviously the safest way to do things)
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: I have wondered about a flying jet-powered wing.
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[17:59] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: Take a pass at 400MPH along a hedge.
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[17:59] <gonzo_> We had a mast close to a tree, and the big 6mtr beam caught the tree. I did suggest roping the chainsaw to the ant
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Corners are a problem.
[17:59] <gonzo_> the committee poo-poo'ed that
[18:00] <gonzo_> I do the hedges here with the flymo
[18:00] <gonzo_> so I climbed up, sawed half through and roped it to the tow bar
[18:00] <gonzo_> that did the job
[18:00] <gonzo_> now we have the 11ele 6mtr yagi up
[18:00] <SpeedEvil> There are videos about people like you.
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> 'Little Jonny used to have arms'
[18:01] <nigelvh> "but he lost them in a terrible nuclear powered robot stripper accident"
[18:01] <gonzo_> they really didn't line the idea of bringing it down with a bang
[18:01] <gonzo_> hehe
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> I was more meaning the flymo
[18:02] <gonzo_> V8 powered, think I have one somewhere
[18:03] <gonzo_> the flymo is no more. Hit a tent peg in the ;lawn and the blades sheared off
[18:03] <gonzo_> that was a bicycle clip event
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[19:03] <Bob_G8NSV> well got tiny gps hearing my module
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[19:14] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
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[19:17] <fsphil-laptop> yoyo
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[20:01] <Lunar_Lander_> hello RocketBoy
[20:04] <fsphil-laptop> got the wind data downloaded. this should be fun
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander_> today I for the first time succeeded in using a trick from the Walter Lewin MIT lectures
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander_> when I was waiting at the station, it began to rain while the sun was still out, so I quickly faced my shadow, looked to about where my shadow ended and then looked up
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander_> to the left of me in the sky then was the rainbow
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander_> I could even see the second rainbow and that it has the inverted colours
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
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[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> any sign of the pot of gold?
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander4811> no, sorry
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[20:16] <Lunar_Lander4811> hi Dan-K2VOL
[20:16] Nick change: Lunar_Lander4811 -> Lunar_Lander_
[20:17] <Laurenceb_> http://www.amazon.com/Construction-Operation-Clandestine-Drug-Laboratories/dp/1559501081
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[20:33] <Bob_G8NSV> hi all
[20:33] <fsphil-laptop> evenin' Bob_G8NSV
[20:34] <Bob_G8NSV> wierd problems when I run software serial to recieve nmea the baud rate goes horribly slow
[20:34] <Bob_G8NSV> was working fine till then!!
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> that'll be an interrupt problem
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> although it shouldn't be *toooo* bad
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[20:35] <Bob_G8NSV> if I set nss to an unused pair of ports it works fine if I use the tiny gps test program it works fine
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[20:36] <Bob_G8NSV> sounds like fasty morse code!!
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> sounds odd. how are you handling the data from it?
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[20:38] <Bob_G8NSV> am trying to hack navracs code to work with it that may be the prob as it was written for ublox. I have stripped out most stuff to start again but maybe not took out enough!!
[20:38] <Bob_G8NSV> tiny gps should see the lat long from the nmea?
[20:39] <Bob_G8NSV> may have to start again and ri[p all tiny gps code out and rewrite for nmea?
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> it should be able to handle any nmea devices yea
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> it might be worth taking a few steps back yea. get it doing rtty again, then see if it can read but not process the gps data
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> then maybe print some of the gps data directly over rtty
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> see if it makes sense
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[20:41] <Bob_G8NSV> it will do the rtty if I stop tinygps seeing nmea
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[20:44] <Bob_G8NSV> its a 16mhz nano should handle that and a 4800baud software port?
[20:44] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[20:45] <fsphil-laptop> that'll use a fair few interrupts though
[20:45] <fsphil-laptop> it might be better to stop rtty while you get the gps data
[20:45] <Bob_G8NSV> its really slowed up not just abit!!
[20:45] <fsphil-laptop> ie, close the port while doing rtty
[20:46] <Bob_G8NSV> AHHH!! will look for command for that or just change it to a non existant input!
[20:46] <Bob_G8NSV> just before i send telemetry
[20:46] <Bob_G8NSV> will try that now
[20:47] <fsphil-laptop> I'd close the port (I think it's actually just .close())
[20:47] <fsphil-laptop> that'll definitely stop the nss interrupts
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[20:48] <fsphil-laptop> hiya oliver :)
[20:50] <IRC_ukhas> Hi, another day of wondering around holding my satphone aloft like a sacred talisman
[20:50] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:50] <IRC_ukhas> And no signal...
[20:50] <fsphil-laptop> at all?
[20:51] <GW8RAK> fsphil-laptop, I can recommend the magnetic loop
[20:51] <fsphil-laptop> oooh you built it?
[20:51] <GW8RAK> I'm very impressed with it.
[20:51] <GW8RAK> On 80m, theres a signal at 3750 which I null out almost completely
[20:52] <GW8RAK> Other signals are S9+10 and S8 on the loop.
[20:52] <IRC_ukhas> Soetimes
[20:52] <IRC_ukhas> But not sof
[20:52] <GW8RAK> But the noise is definitely reduced, so readability is no different between the loop in the shack and the dipole in the garden
[20:52] <fsphil-laptop> even the small loop I made was able to null out the noise here
[20:53] <GW8RAK> Certainly the results so far make it worth continuing to a transmitting loop
[20:53] <GW8RAK> This one goes from 80m to 20
[20:54] <fsphil-laptop> that's not bad
[20:54] <fsphil-laptop> 10m is fairly noise free here so the loop's not so necessary
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[20:55] <griffonbot> Received email: benoxley "[UKHAS] Internal Pressure Results for Balloons"
[20:55] <fsphil-laptop> mine will be going into the attic
[20:55] <Bob_G8NSV> cant find close command for nss
[20:56] <GW8RAK> Going to try it next with a copper tube loop and a wide spaced variable cap
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[20:56] <Bob_G8NSV> cant find any command documentation
[20:58] <Bob_G8NSV> wish arduino had uutocomplete klike VB!
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not sure. this problem was hit before, and someone found a way to pause or disable it while transmitting rtty
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[21:01] <fsphil-laptop> GW8RAK, so the one now is RX-only? just a wire and a capacitor?
[21:02] <kokey> yay! I figured out my rtl device is actually faulty
[21:02] <kokey> 5 hours of wasting my time thinking I was stupid
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[21:03] <GW8RAK> This one is a main loop of RG213 coax with a 500pf variable cap at the top. Diameter is 1.1m.
[21:03] <Bob_G8NSV> looks like you can specify instances of the port and which is the active one, will try something with that
[21:03] <GW8RAK> The rig is coupled to this via a faraday loop of RG58.
[21:03] <GW8RAK> I'll have to get a flickr account and post some photos
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> that's be cool
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> s/d
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[21:09] <fsphil-laptop> that pressure plot is interesting. seems to have two steps
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[21:12] <GW8RAK> fsphil-laptop, hopefully this link will show the photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/77358378@N05/?saved=1
[21:12] <GW8RAK> The framework is just plastic conduit
[21:12] <fsphil-laptop> got loads of that
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> the cap is on the opposite end of the feed point?
[21:14] <GW8RAK> Yes. Currently there is only 1 part of the VC in use.
[21:14] <GW8RAK> May try to switch in the other half for an extra 350pf
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> for lower bands?
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> there doesn't seem to be any connection to the rg213
[21:15] <GW8RAK> Hopefully it will extend to top band.
[21:16] <GW8RAK> There's no connection to the main loop
[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> he's a witch! burn him!
[21:16] <GW8RAK> Some designs say that it is connected at the centre bottom, while others say don't.
[21:17] <fsphil-laptop> that's odd. so it's all inductance
[21:17] <GW8RAK> Yes, the coupling is purely inductive
[21:18] <Bob_G8NSV> my word its sending rtty to fldigi with lat long!
[21:18] <Bob_G8NSV> still a prob it seems to lock after a few strings, getting there!
[21:18] <GW8RAK> Listening to a net on 80m, the readability is fantastic. Both the noise and the signals are weaker, but it makes it easier to understand
[21:20] <fsphil-laptop> I'm amazed that something that small works on 80m at all
[21:21] <fsphil-laptop> rg213 or can any cable be used?
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[21:21] <GW8RAK> Well it is marginal on 80. According to the calculator, 80m really needs 10m of loop length
[21:22] <GW8RAK> I only used 213 as I've got loads and being stiff, it holds it's shape better.
[21:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Internal Pressure Results for Balloons"
[21:22] <GW8RAK> For Rx only, microbore heating pipe would make a lightweight loop
[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> would there be any befit to running more than once around the loop?
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[21:23] <GW8RAK> I found one reference to a 2 turn loop.
[21:24] <GW8RAK> In the early days of radio, multiple turn loops were popular for RX and they work on TX as well, but the mode and feed is different
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[21:26] <GW8RAK> http://www.w1npp.org/events/2010/2010-fieldday/antennas/limited/9602043-80m_multiturn_loop.pdf
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander_> benoxley, thanks for the balloon pressure data!
[21:27] <benoxley> no worries :)
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[21:29] <benoxley> launch on sunday should bring in some more data
[21:29] <jonsowman> woo moar data
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[21:30] <Lunar_Lander_> awesome!
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander_> what sensor did you use again?
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[21:32] <benoxley> MPXV7002DP
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander_> thanks
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[22:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Internal Pressure Results for Balloons"
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 19 2012