highaltitude.log.20120417

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[02:56] <fergusnoble> fsphil: historic data is available from the noaa nomads servers
[02:56] <fergusnoble> http://nomads.ncdc.noaa.gov/data/gfs4/
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[06:37] <Dan-K2VOL> hey anyone around
[06:37] <fsphil> fergusnoble, brilliant! you're a legend
[06:37] <fsphil> morning Dan-K2VOL, me but only for about 60 seconds :)
[06:38] <Dan-K2VOL> aw ok
[06:38] <Dan-K2VOL> night phil, it is really late there
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[06:40] <Elmar_PD3EM> morning all (or evening, night for other parts of the world)
[06:41] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone know how to use a defined constant from one arduino file in another included one?
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[06:56] <fsphil> have the define in a separate .h file Dan-K2VOL, include that from both your program files
[06:57] <fsphil> or if you mean using the define inside another #include'ed file, then define it above the #include
[07:01] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[07:01] <Dan-K2VOL> ok
[07:01] <Dan-K2VOL> thx
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[07:45] <daveake> Deary me ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry-Pi-Model-B-ModelB-Brand-New-in-Box-/140739793135?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item20c4bed0ef&clk_rvr_id=333130244340&afsrc=1#ht_1049wt_1139
[07:47] <fsphil> lemme guess, £500 or something silly
[07:47] <daveake> £240
[07:48] <fsphil> ah, they just multiplied the price by 10
[07:54] <fsphil> hopefully mine arrives before the summer
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[07:59] <daveake> summer which year?
[07:59] <daveake> I see XABEN24 is now on the Arhab alt record page :)
[08:00] <daveake> Quite a high UK content there :D
[08:01] <Darkside> nice :D
[08:03] <fsphil> indeed
[08:03] <fsphil> hope they have a go at beating it
[08:03] <daveake> And I see the GPSL list is completely uninterested in the achievement :|
[08:03] <fsphil> yea- I can't explain that at all
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[08:05] <Darkside> i can
[08:05] <Darkside> you're not american
[08:07] <Laurenceb_> heh UK is talking all the top spots
[08:07] <Laurenceb_> great stuff
[08:08] <daveake> 8 out of the top 13 if I'm not mistaken
[08:08] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[08:08] <Laurenceb_> wonder how we are doing in highest ever balloon altitude
[08:08] <Laurenceb_> i know absolute record is JAXA with 56Km
[08:09] <fsphil> 53km wasn't it?
[08:09] <Laurenceb_> oh maybe
[08:09] <Laurenceb_> special ~1um polythene zero pressure
[08:10] <number10> you guys are not being fair though. you for got to submit the lowest ones ;) I rekon we could get the record for that also
[08:11] <daveake> Asecnding into tree ... that should do it :)
[08:11] <number10> :)
[08:12] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/#!/SpaceX/status/191974325132328962
[08:12] <SpeedEvil> NASA confirms April 30 launch target for SpaceX demonstration flight.
[08:12] <Laurenceb_> nice
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[08:13] Action: SpeedEvil crosses fingers till then.
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[08:38] <fsphil> I keep getting disconnected. odd
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[09:03] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: @sparkfun: A new tutorial on reverse engineering the SPOT Connect satellite messenger - check it out: http://t.co/aUmynRY0 #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/192176357625708544]
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[09:24] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:24] <UpuWork> morning
[09:25] <jcoxon> I'm doing a presentation for wb8elk on 18th may
[09:25] <jcoxon> better get working on it
[09:25] <Dan-K2VOL> nice james!
[09:26] <fsphil> where at?
[09:26] <jcoxon> dayton hamvention
[09:26] <jcoxon> pre-recorded
[09:26] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:29] <number10> do we get to preview it
[09:29] <jcoxon> we'll see
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[09:56] <eroomde> see if your can do it in a dan/carl-sagan voice
[09:59] <jcoxon> haha
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[10:00] <kokey> would be more fun in a feinman voice
[10:01] <jcoxon> how about a robot voice!
[10:01] <kokey> vocoder or autotune
[10:01] <kokey> btw
[10:01] <eroomde> one of those autogen synthesized and cgi kittens
[10:02] <kokey> the SSTV that was done before, how well did that work?
[10:02] <eroomde> like a boss
[10:02] <kokey> was it done over an ntx2?
[10:02] <jcoxon> kokey, so there are 2 approaches
[10:02] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Got watchdog code on comm controller Arduino Mega finally, just now. Looks like it may be working. Good night. #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/192191352585465856]
[10:03] <jcoxon> SSTV worked okay, often had noise in the picture
[10:03] <kokey> so SSTV doesn't have error correction?
[10:03] <jcoxon> SSDV worked better as you can use the listener network to help build up the image as its in packets
[10:04] <kokey> ah, SSDV uses reed-solomon
[10:05] <kokey> woah, SSDV's Reed-Solomon implementation was written by KA9Q
[10:05] <fsphil> yep. I still don't understand how it works
[10:06] <kokey> it's magic
[10:06] <eroomde> you bit the sensical bits in
[10:06] <eroomde> your get the jumbled bits out
[10:06] <eroomde> in out, in out
[10:06] <eroomde> you add redundancy throughout
[10:06] <kokey> if you want to do error correction on much smaller chunks of data, e.g. telemetry, Golay is quite good for that
[10:06] <eroomde> you do the convolution and you turn around
[10:06] <eroomde> that's what it's all about
[10:06] <kokey> but for larger chunks, Reed-Solomon
[10:06] <eroomde> any more questions you can email me
[10:07] <eroomde> yeah
[10:07] <kokey> some guy I worked for in the past
[10:07] <eroomde> interesting you can now get good results with really high performance things like low density parity check codes with payloads as small as 1000 bits
[10:07] <kokey> was showing me his golay implementation in C
[10:07] <eroomde> which is pleasing
[10:07] <eroomde> and in the realms of hab possibility
[10:07] <kokey> and the testing code they've written to test it
[10:08] <kokey> so I asked him what they implemented it on, and he said logic gate packs
[10:09] <jcoxon> is their a flight up?
[10:10] <kokey> I'm wondering if the 8n2 rtty can be improved with golay instead
[10:10] <jcoxon> or is someone replaying mondo-2
[10:10] <kokey> so the SSDV transmissions, what bit rate were they done at?
[10:12] <daveake> replay
[10:13] <kokey> damn I was driving to the predicted recovery site
[10:13] <daveake> lol
[10:13] <fsphil> kokey, at the moment 300 baud but there's no real standard rate
[10:14] <fsphil> 300 is just convenient, although a bit slow
[10:14] <kokey> fsphil: I was just wondering what is practical, what height did it work at?
[10:14] <fsphil> it worked all the way
[10:14] <kokey> nice
[10:14] <kokey> standard ntx2?
[10:15] <fsphil> yea
[10:15] <kokey> I was wondering, about say something that can be broadcast at higher bpm bursts, using bursts of power from capacitors
[10:15] <kokey> but I guess there's not much one can do unlicensed
[10:15] <fsphil> tim in .nl ran it at 1200 baud for some images, got most of them
[10:15] <kokey> 1200 not bad
[10:15] <fsphil> but the bandwidth is pushing it for a standard amateur receiver and fldigi's decoder
[10:16] <kokey> I remember dialing up at 1200
[10:17] <kokey> in fact, I connected at 1200 and 2400 to demon in the UK
[10:17] <kokey> when I blue boxed phone calls from south africa
[10:17] <eroomde> ping Darkside
[10:17] <kokey> and the software that I ran to hold up the tcp/ip stack was KA9Q
[10:18] <kokey> that's why I was delighted to notice the KA9Q reed-solomon implementation
[10:18] <fsphil> nice
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[10:20] <fsphil> his RS code works well, people where able to decode the image data before the text telemetry
[10:21] <Randomskk> I think that says more about how terrible our current system for telemetry is
[10:21] <Randomskk> the required bit error rate is ridiculous
[10:21] <Randomskk> you need to receive like a thousand successive bits without a single error
[10:21] <eroomde> with required bit error rate is 0
[10:21] <Randomskk> well indeed
[10:21] <Randomskk> but for say 90% odds of getting a sentence it's still stupid
[10:22] <eroomde> we just have no fec
[10:22] <eroomde> so we should go fec ourselves
[10:22] <Randomskk> using a start and two stop bits only makes life worse
[10:22] <eroomde> that's what shannon would say if he were here
[10:22] <Randomskk> indeed
[10:23] <kokey> yup, need golay or something instead of dropping on failed parity
[10:23] <kokey> I think you can reconstruct a lot with 8 plus 3 error correction bits
[10:25] <eroomde> yeah just any old hamming code would probably make an extraordinary difference to us
[10:25] <eroomde> there is however a lot to be said for keeping it human readable
[10:25] <Randomskk> I dunno
[10:25] <eroomde> so perhaps the redundancy bits at the end of the packet
[10:26] <eroomde> though obviously that stops you using scrambling which is quite a thing to lose under lots of circumstances
[10:26] <Randomskk> yea
[10:26] <Randomskk> and also frankly you could really do with source coding
[10:26] <Randomskk> something binary and compressed
[10:26] <Randomskk> before you go adding error correction codes
[10:26] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[10:26] <eroomde> well dimonioex has that
[10:26] <eroomde> it uses varicodes
[10:27] <eroomde> we could train the databank of habitat into an arithmetic code engine
[10:27] <eroomde> the number 5 will almost always be followed by a 2 etc
[10:28] <Randomskk> yea works perfectly for UK flights huh
[10:28] <fsphil> I did that a while back, it's vastly all numbers and commas
[10:28] <eroomde> s'all that matters
[10:28] <fsphil> compresses really good
[10:28] <Randomskk> i think perhaps move away from ascii if you did that
[10:28] <Randomskk> use binary numbers for position
[10:28] <Randomskk> quite a lot better
[10:28] <fsphil> with just a simple huffman tree
[10:28] <eroomde> arithemtic codes are as simple to implement as haffman i think
[10:28] <eroomde> it's just ibm have the patent
[10:29] <Randomskk> not for much longer iirc
[10:29] Action: eroomde spits
[10:29] <Randomskk> but I think huffman is easier
[10:29] <Randomskk> the thing is, to be honest
[10:29] <kokey> how much data is in a line at the moment?
[10:29] <fsphil> huffman is easier, but iirc the patent on arithmetic coding has expired already
[10:29] <eroomde> if you read the mackay explanation, arithmetic codes are the most intuitively obvious thing you could possibly implement
[10:29] <Randomskk> kokey: maybe 100 characters
[10:29] <Randomskk> most people are flying AVRs or arduinos or PICs
[10:30] <Randomskk> and it's hard enough to get them to use CRC16 checksums instead of XOR
[10:30] <eroomde> lol ok
[10:30] <eroomde> true dat
[10:30] Action: daveake is relieved he added CRC16 recently
[10:30] <Randomskk> kokey: but.. that's not really an answer to your question
[10:30] <Randomskk> kokey: at a minimum we're talking a latitude, longitude, time of day, altitude
[10:30] <kokey> yeah it could be less if it's binary instead of ascii for numbers ;-)
[10:31] <fsphil> I got it all into a 32 byte packet
[10:31] <eroomde> so in terms of making this happen
[10:31] <kokey> I've been looking for an excuse to catch up with the guy who's done the golay work, they implemented it by wire wrapping logic circuits and ran the code on ancient unix computers
[10:32] <eroomde> we probably want to write 'habmybitchup.c'
[10:32] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:apx
[10:32] <kokey> I'm sure I could get some good suggestions from him, since he likes to reimplement it
[10:32] <eroomde> which you pass a string and get out a pointer to some bytes that you give to your radio input wiggler function
[10:33] <Randomskk> eroomde: however loads of people keep wanting to write their own code
[10:33] <eroomde> or something like that
[10:33] <eroomde> so that it's nicely black-box for people
[10:33] <Randomskk> and getting dl-fldigi to accept this would also be tricky
[10:33] <Randomskk> assuming we stop using RS-232 signalling
[10:33] <Randomskk> well "tricky"
[10:33] <Randomskk> fsphil: oh interesting, I hadn't seen that
[10:33] <eroomde> what's the difference?
[10:34] <fsphil> Randomskk, the idea was to complement the ssdv packets. it's not been tested properly
[10:34] <Randomskk> eroomde: the start and stop bits must be correct for decoding
[10:34] <Randomskk> so you can't have an error in them
[10:34] <fsphil> you could ignore the start and stop bits
[10:34] <eroomde> oh yes
[10:34] <eroomde> that's just annoying
[10:34] <Randomskk> fsphil: I mean, you have to modify dl-fldigi
[10:34] <eroomde> you nheed a new radio decoder really
[10:34] <Randomskk> yes indeed
[10:34] <fsphil> yea, I wouldn't bother
[10:35] <Randomskk> something that doesn't just FFT bin to decode rtty
[10:35] <eroomde> maybe your should organise a hack day Randomskk
[10:35] <eroomde> to work on hab software
[10:35] <Randomskk> maybe I should
[10:35] <Randomskk> what a good idea
[10:35] <eroomde> i'm full of good ideas this morning
[10:35] <Randomskk> yes
[10:35] <eroomde> but seriously i would really like to throw some hours at this changepoint demodulation stuff
[10:35] <eroomde> once scotland is outa the way
[10:36] <Randomskk> yup that'd be cool
[10:36] <eroomde> gotta at least be able to definitvely prove it's no better than matched filters for real signals
[10:36] <Randomskk> I think the current rough sketchy plan is to make a python framework that does a GUI with config etc and provides cross platform raw audio stream to decoder modules
[10:36] <daveake> eroomode why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways?
[10:36] <Randomskk> and then provides that bit slicer/decoder bitstream to ECC modules
[10:36] <Randomskk> and line code modules and so forth
[10:37] <Randomskk> separate out the BFSK decoder from the RS-232 signalling
[10:37] <eroomde> like gnuradio huh
[10:37] <Randomskk> so that we can easily do other things with BFSK
[10:37] <Randomskk> huh
[10:37] <Randomskk> I guess.
[10:37] <Randomskk> :|
[10:37] <eroomde> that's c++ sigproc modules with python glue iirc
[10:37] <Randomskk> I should probably toy with gnuradio
[10:37] <eroomde> i think it's a bit big and severe though already
[10:37] <Randomskk> yea that's the thing
[10:37] <Randomskk> I want this to be like
[10:38] <Randomskk> a small happy .exe .dmg .deb for ready installation on whatever
[10:38] <Randomskk> that Just Works as easily as dl-fldigi
[10:38] <eroomde> i mean there's a lot to be said with making the simplest thing that lets you plug in a bunch of different modulation scheme decoders into a simple gui that'll do a waterfall
[10:38] <fsphil> rpmahem
[10:38] <Randomskk> but easy habitat integration since it's python and designed for it from the ground up, and more modulate decoding
[10:38] <Randomskk> indeed
[10:38] <Randomskk> it also lets people do other things besides BFSK later if they want
[10:38] <eroomde> keen
[10:38] <eroomde> KEEN even
[10:38] <Randomskk> but crucially I want to get away from RS232
[10:39] <Randomskk> which is insane for balloons. the only advantage is that it's what RTTY terminals used like a hundred years ago and is therefore implemented in dl-fldigi
[10:39] <fsphil> yea. 3 out of every 11 bits I transmit are wasted
[10:39] <Randomskk> fsphil: but not only wasted, must be correct
[10:39] <Randomskk> it's like the worst error code ever
[10:40] <kokey> aren't there other rtty modes that use a bit of error correction instead of parity bits?
[10:40] <kokey> supported by fldigi?
[10:40] <eroomde> don't think so
[10:41] <Matt_soton> MFSK modes have FEC but not rtty
[10:41] <eroomde> there are other modes with fec in the standard though
[10:41] <eroomde> like dominoex
[10:41] <Randomskk> dl-fldigi's MFSK is deceptively named
[10:41] <Randomskk> it happens to be MFSK
[10:41] <Randomskk> but it's by no means an MFSK decoder
[10:41] <Randomskk> it's their own special mode
[10:42] <Randomskk> with its own standard defined shifts and baud rates and FEC
[10:42] <Matt_soton> which i couldnt find documentation for ¬.¬
[10:42] <kokey> oh that sucks
[10:42] <kokey> because in theory it shouldn't be hard to implement
[10:42] <Randomskk> well indeed
[10:42] <Randomskk> the other option is to mod dl-fldigi to do these things
[10:42] <Matt_soton> or start again :)
[10:42] <Randomskk> but I'd like to see how quickly we can do something with a rough python framework
[10:43] <Randomskk> I dunno
[10:43] <Randomskk> it's always tempting to start over
[10:43] <Randomskk> and usually the wrong decision
[10:43] <kokey> what else does fldigi do that makes it hard to replace?
[10:43] <kokey> I guess you could build something with gnuradio but that will be hard to distribute
[10:43] <Randomskk> well a) lots of people have it and are used to it b) it's fully fledged digimode software c) all the stuff to integrate it to the distributed listener network is already written and working
[10:43] <Randomskk> we've got builds for windows, mac, linux and a lot of time spent making it work
[10:44] <Randomskk> I mean this is sunk cost fallacy vs grass is greener really
[10:44] <kokey> yeah ok making fldigi do what you want sounds like a better option
[10:44] <jcoxon> Randomskk, also people will continue using rtty for a while
[10:44] <kokey> does it allow for plugins or such?
[10:44] <jcoxon> its relatively modular in regards to modes etc
[10:45] <kokey> back in early 2006, after I read about the pegasus launches and using the ISM bands
[10:45] <Matt_soton> it would be nice to be able to slot in gnu radio modules, but that wouldnt be easy for everyone to use
[10:45] <kokey> I bought myself two little ISM handsets, goodmans or something
[10:45] <Randomskk> jcoxon: oh totally, I think getting rtty working would be the first thing to do
[10:46] <Randomskk> well at any rate I'm out of action for the next month really
[10:46] <Randomskk> after that I plan to try and hack together a proof of concept for a python version just to see what getting at audio and doing something with it is like
[10:46] <kokey> and wrote some code in C to generate tones, and code in C to implement the goertzel algorithms to detect tones
[10:47] <kokey> my plan was to implement a telemetry system that would send characters doing DTMF over FM, with some error correction
[10:48] <kokey> it didn't turn out to be such a good plan
[10:48] <jcoxon> hehe
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[10:49] <f6agv> HI ALL
[10:49] <kokey> then I moved to gibraltar where ordering anything online was problematic so I gave up on my HAB plans
[10:50] <jcoxon> hey f6agv
[10:54] <f6agv> MONDO-2 is in air ? good day james
[10:59] <f6agv> weather is not very good here, wind and rain, grey sky
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[11:03] <eroomde> spectacular rain all of a sudden
[11:04] <x-f> Discovery's final landing (live) - http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/discovery/
[11:04] <russss> it's just taken off, so it'll be a while before it lands
[11:05] <kokey> will it drop the 747 in the ocean during ascent?
[11:07] <eroomde> we've run out of coffee
[11:08] <eroomde> my boss is having a moment
[11:08] <eroomde> there is no business continuity arrangement in place for when this happens
[11:08] <eroomde> so we're all just sort of sitting about
[11:08] <eroomde> rocking
[11:08] <kokey> should keep a packet of caffeine tablets for emergencies
[11:09] <kokey> behind glass
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[11:10] <gonzo_> I used to have a fire break glass point with a humbug in there
[11:10] <eroomde> the nearest tesco is 9 miles away
[11:10] <eroomde> which is also bad
[11:10] <eroomde> but borderline worth an expedition
[11:12] <gonzo_> caffine in a combi pen
[11:13] <kokey> sun is out here again
[11:13] <gonzo_> whay happened, the pilot light go out?
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[11:14] <kokey> heh
[11:15] <kokey> reminds me of when the lights went out at school and some kid said we should all raise our hands since many hands makes lights work
[11:16] <eroomde> blimey
[11:16] <eroomde> .
[11:16] <gonzo_> long hook on pole comes out from stage left
[11:17] <kokey> i'm passing time since I'm testing something that only seems to happen when an http keep-alive has timed out
[11:17] <kokey> which I think is 15 minutes
[11:17] <kokey> but I'm tempted to test before 15 minutes
[11:17] <kokey> but then I have to wait for that amount of time all over again
[11:18] <gonzo_> best go and rob the pillow from the first aid room then!
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[11:57] <jdtanner> Afternoon group mind&we have a problem with our little HD camera (a Panasonic HM-TA1). It turns out it won't record when connected to USB, which means we aren't able to connect to a 'battery pack' to boost the length of recording time. My initial idea is to bypass the battery and try to wire a battery pack directly to the power input terminals inside the camera&any ideas?
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[11:59] <kokey> I know from my canon Ixus I did some digging around and found an external power supply thing for it, which consisted of an AC adapter and a connector that was the shape of a battery
[11:59] <kokey> not sure if there's an external power supply option for it
[12:00] <jdtanner> I'll have a look&good idea
[12:01] <kokey> otherwise perhaps try get an old VW-VBJ10 battery and strip it to make a connector out of it
[12:02] <kokey> looks like you can get them for £5 off ebay
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[12:04] <jdtanner> On li-ion batteries, can I just ignore the middle terminal?
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[12:15] <zyp> what middle terminal?
[12:15] <zyp> what's the voltage of the battery? is it a multi cell battery?
[12:17] <jdtanner> http://www.play.com/LargerImages.html?r=ELEC&productid=20468056 +/T/- it is a 3.7v li-ion
[12:17] <BrainDamage> middle terminal of lipo cells is usually the sensor access
[12:17] <BrainDamage> like temp sensor
[12:17] <jdtanner> at 1080p it will only record 30 mins...
[12:17] <jdtanner> and it won;t run when connected to usb (even if it is just a usb power adaptor)
[12:18] <jdtanner> &which is a bit annoying
[12:21] <Laurenceb> is Mondo2 a sim?
[12:23] <jdtanner> These are the power specs for the camera: Power source:
[12:23] <jdtanner> DC 5.0 V (When using USB)/DC 4.2 V (When using battery)
[12:23] <jdtanner> Power consumption:
[12:23] <jdtanner> Recording; 2.5 W/Charging; 2.5 W
[12:23] <kokey> Laurenceb: you're doing Mondo2 recovery?
[12:24] <kokey> ;-)
[12:24] <jdtanner> So I wonder if 3x1.5v in series would be any better than the one 4.5v 1000mah cell?
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[12:29] <eroomde> new company motivational poster
[12:29] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/nLfPZ.jpg
[12:29] <Darkside> i have one of those "Science is a verb now" shirts
[12:29] <Randomskk> same! the qc one with the cat?
[12:30] <Darkside> yup
[12:30] <Randomskk> :D
[12:30] <Darkside> also got a dinosaur comics erasable whiteboard
[12:30] <Darkside> which is AWESOME
[12:30] <eroomde> link
[12:30] <Randomskk> also same :D
[12:30] <Randomskk> I also have a signed and doodled latest dinosaur comics book
[12:30] <Randomskk> (and all previous ones)
[12:31] <Randomskk> http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-SCIENCEVERB&Category_Code=QC
[12:31] <Darkside> http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-SCIENCEVERB&Category_Code=QC
[12:31] <Randomskk> too slow!
[12:31] <Darkside> http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QW-WHITEBOARD&Category_Code=QW
[12:31] <Randomskk> right, bbl work time
[12:31] <Darkside> i have one of those up on the fridge now
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[12:48] <eroomde> anyone know of any really large input range smps's?
[12:48] <eroomde> sort of 5-30V in, 5V out?
[12:49] <Laurenceb> lt3467a is 2.5 to 16v in
[12:49] <Laurenceb> bunno about that much range
[12:49] <Laurenceb> can anyone here help me identify the gumstik i just found?
[12:50] <eroomde> definitely need the >24V bit
[12:50] <eroomde> optherwise it's easy
[12:50] <zyp> 5-30V doesn't
[12:50] <zyp> doesn't sound really large
[12:51] <Laurenceb> cant even find the power input :S
[12:51] <Laurenceb> i think its been modified
[12:51] <eroomde> thanks as ever zyp
[12:51] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:51] <Laurenceb> hmf need jcoxon
[12:51] <zyp> hmm, the lt1767 I'm using only goes up to 25V
[12:52] <Laurenceb> are gumstiks powered throught he hirose connector?
[12:52] <eroomde> think so
[12:53] <eroomde> well actually it's been 3 years since i looked at one
[12:53] <BrainDamage> eroomde: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Converter-LM2596-Buck-Step-Down-Module-Power-Supply-4-40V-1-5-35V-/250954119681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6e07fa01
[12:53] <eroomde> but i don't recall needing anything other than hirose when we put a gumstix ootprint onto our pcb
[12:53] <Laurenceb> ah...
[12:53] <Laurenceb> mine has been desoldered
[12:54] <Laurenceb> just found it on the floor in an old lab...
[12:54] <BrainDamage> you might want to add some extra filtering yourself because chinese modules tend to have high noise
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[12:54] <BrainDamage> otherwise should work fine
[12:54] <BrainDamage> and zyp is right, most buck modules will happily accept >30V input
[12:54] <kokey> need to find a cheap linux dev PC
[12:55] <zyp> eroomde, AP1501, LTC3631, LT1173, LT1111, ADP3050, among others
[12:56] <zyp> these were the top search results at digikey when filtering for your requirements
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[12:57] <eroomde> thanks
[12:57] <BrainDamage> ah if you want ic, try also MC34167 LM2593
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[12:59] <eroomde> integrated pcb/potted brick preferable
[12:59] <eroomde> just trying to knock up a breakout board for a gps to go into a rocket with a 24V bus
[13:02] <fsphil> [ot] anyone recommend an external firewire drive for a mac, 2Tb at least?
[13:04] <eroomde> no but we can all chip in about how you're asking the wrong question
[13:04] <eroomde> if you want
[13:05] <fsphil> fire away :)
[13:05] <eroomde> it's fine :)
[13:05] <fsphil> I'm setting up an old mac mini as a file server
[13:08] <eroomde> you're asking the wrong question
[13:08] <eroomde> what you want to do is actually this
[13:08] <eroomde> buy a brand new mac mini
[13:08] <eroomde> with THUNDERBOLD
[13:08] <eroomde> <kapow crush rumble>
[13:08] <eroomde> then get a thunderbolt external SSD raid arrauy
[13:08] <Darkside> typo
[13:09] <eroomde> i will sell you one
[13:09] <eroomde> for £100000 pounds
[13:09] <eroomde> it's worth the xtra because the bezel is polished to a mirror finish
[13:10] <eroomde> you won't be able to develop software anymore on a spinning disc once you've pushed to git hosted on a THUNDERBOLT external ssd raid array
[13:10] <eroomde> seriously it's like using punch cards after that
[13:10] <eroomde> and it makes you dumber too
[13:11] <r2x0t> if there is apple logo on it, it's worth at least twice that!
[13:11] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:12] <fsphil> I'll stick with the mechanical spinny things
[13:12] <fsphil> :)
[13:13] <fsphil> it's an old ppc mac, may as well do something with it
[13:14] <eroomde> i would guess ebay
[13:14] <eroomde> there are lots of good old spinning firewire cases
[13:14] <fsphil> ah, ebay
[13:15] <fsphil> why do I always forget ye
[13:18] <gonzo_> hmmmm one of the girls has just brought in plates of cake.
[13:18] <fsphil> it's a trap!
[13:18] <Laurenceb> i seem to have a gumstix basix with a 24pin header
[13:18] <Laurenceb> weird
[13:19] <gonzo_> trapped with cake, I'm game!
[13:21] <gonzo_> (actually it was wedding cake! So someone got trrapped)
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[13:34] <x-f> russss, ok, now Discovery is landing :)
[13:39] <fsphil> lol gonzo_
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[15:14] <eroomde> the wind, it blows
[15:19] <eroomde> chaps
[15:19] <eroomde> make blog currently has as article no2 'synthetic bone generation with lego'
[15:20] <eroomde> the student who did it is dan - one of my generation of cusf
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[15:22] <eroomde> chr
[15:22] <eroomde> and LVL1 is the current top article of make blog
[15:22] <eroomde> HAB is representin'
[15:24] <jonsowman> dan's video is excellent
[15:24] <jonsowman> really well filmed
[15:26] <eroomde> the youtube comments are amused that he his Dr STrange
[15:28] <jonsowman> haha
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[16:11] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
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[16:16] <nigelvh> Yo
[16:16] <Morseman> GE all
[16:16] <Lunar_Lander_> how is the life?
[16:16] <nigelvh> "the life" is treating me well
[16:16] <nigelvh> Yourself?
[16:17] <Morseman> Like trying to knit fog at times here
[16:19] <nigelvh> As long as the goal of your efforts in fog knitting is fog, then you're highly sucessful.
[16:21] <Morseman> Lakes and aligators also come to mind
[16:22] <Morseman> Any balloon launches planned?
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[16:23] <fsphil> none from here, at least this month
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[16:24] <Morseman> I'm even considering a dummy launch with a couple of balloons and a small weight to represent the payload, to see where/how fast it will go
[16:25] <fsphil> pico?
[16:25] <Morseman> Only a couple of shop balloons - not going to get 'good' helium yet
[16:26] <fsphil> ah nuts, forgot to order that regulator again
[16:26] <Morseman> That's the next question fsphil, how heavy should I make the dummy payload?
[16:26] <fsphil> pico payloads are normally around the 40g mark
[16:26] <fsphil> 60g maybe
[16:26] <fsphil> those balloons won't carry much more weight than that
[16:26] <Morseman> OK - Thanks. Need to find something suitable then
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> Morseman: If you don't want to bother - and have natural gas, you can use that
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> Admittedly, it has half the lift
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> But it's cheap, and on tap
[16:27] <Morseman> I do have gas here but Kate might think it strange if I start filling balloons from the gas hobs :-)
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[16:28] <fsphil> haha
[16:28] <Morseman> Helium party balloons safer to carry in the car to where I want to launch from as well.
[16:29] <kokey> yeah don't use welding gas
[16:30] <kokey> I remember as a kid our version of the scouts, we had a task to start a camp fire in an impressive way
[16:30] <fsphil> that's a bad things to ask kids to do
[16:31] <kokey> balloon full of welding gas, some newspaper over it, rope dipped in kerosene... bags of corn (posh sand bags)
[16:31] <Morseman> As Blaster Bates used to say "but they had a bloody good fire going just down the road"
[16:31] <kokey> it was impressive, it looked like the sun was rising
[16:31] <kokey> or a mini nuclear explosion
[16:32] <Morseman> Small balloon with a small ammount of petrol over a candle would be impressive in a field as well
[16:33] <Morseman> The tents might not survive though...
[16:33] <eroomde> it was the petroly oily rag and a french banger that was always more impressive than a clean explosion when i was little
[16:33] <eroomde> the soaked rag gave you a nice dirty mushroom pooof
[16:34] <kokey> hehe, cool
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[16:39] <Morseman> Trying to decide what to have for tea
[16:39] <number10> some potassium permangenate and magnesium powder to give it a nice flash first
[16:40] <Morseman> Pity can't get sodium as well
[16:45] <Lunar_Lander_> I once read how some idiots stole a bottle of sodium from the school chemistry lab and dumped it all in one of the toilets
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[16:49] <Morseman> Ooooff (or something similar)
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[16:51] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
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[17:00] <Morseman> Decision has been made - Tea will be Pasta Bollywhatsit - Bollywhatsit now defrosting
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[17:13] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] MONDO launches Saturday"
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[17:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[17:19] <Upu> evening
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[17:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Upu, did all the ballons get recovered this weekend?
[17:19] <Upu> yep they did all 3
[17:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> perfect
[17:21] <Upu> the americans we very happy for us taking 6 out of the top 10 altitude records in the world
[17:21] <Upu> in fact they've not shut up about it on the mailing list
[17:21] <Upu> oh wait.. I told a lie
[17:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LOL oh dear, a simple congratulations would have done
[17:22] <eroomde> oooh which mailing list?
[17:22] <eroomde> gpsl?
[17:22] <Upu> not had one mail about it
[17:22] <nigelvh> What? A congratulations? That would require civility. We'll have none of that!
[17:22] <Upu> arhab has been updated though
[17:22] <eroomde> i unsubscribed from all of them about 3 years ago when i had my life ruined by esa-hab
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[17:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> of course its not fun to get your records taken, but thats the game, and its a hobby where people should work together and celebrate the common achievements. I know thats abit blueeyeed, but yet.
[17:25] <Upu> the euro community seems alot more open
[17:25] <Upu> and chatty
[17:25] <eroomde> seems like >40km is old hat now
[17:25] <Upu> I know
[17:26] <Upu> blitzed
[17:26] <Upu> Steve's record is going to take some beating
[17:26] <eroomde> but it was only august that horus broke it in cambridge
[17:26] <eroomde> in the uk
[17:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu i experience the same in the HAM community, but i tend to ignore it, unless it gets to bad.
[17:26] <Upu> 2kg balllon with H2 is all I could offer at the moment
[17:27] <Upu> each to their own I prefer it here :)
[17:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Someone talked about a ZP ballon that could easyly beat it, how is that?
[17:28] <eroomde> they don't burst
[17:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i mean the "easy" part
[17:28] <eroomde> in theory you should be able to get arbitrarily higher
[17:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> so they have a valve?
[17:28] <eroomde> i don't think it would be easy in any practical sense for an amaetuer though
[17:28] <eroomde> as they'd have to be very big
[17:28] <eroomde> the valve is a hole at the bottom
[17:28] <eroomde> so they can never be positively pressurised, the gas just leaks out of the bottom
[17:29] <eroomde> so zero pressure referes to zero differential pressure across the balloon skin
[17:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok i see. Thinking out of the blue, could you put a valve in a ballon, the type you guys launch and equale the pressure as it drifts up?
[17:30] <eroomde> yeah totally
[17:30] <eroomde> that would probably be the way to beat the 42km record
[17:30] <jonsowman> benoxley is working on such a thing :)
[17:30] <eroomde> except it floated iirc
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[17:31] <eroomde> so you'd have to be very careful not to let too much out
[17:31] <eroomde> the idea would be a remote
[17:31] <eroomde> whereby you get into a float like what happened at the weekend
[17:31] <eroomde> then command the valve to open for a bit
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[17:31] <eroomde> and hopefully see it start to climb a few meters
[17:31] <eroomde> i wonder if atmospheric conditions were good this weekend too
[17:31] <eroomde> i suspect that has a lot more to do with it
[17:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> is the ballons rated at a max pressure, so you could make a threshold it would never get above?
[17:32] <eroomde> but no one flies accurate enough pressure sensors to know
[17:32] <eroomde> OZ1SKY_Brian: i expect so
[17:32] <eroomde> but also there might be some variation between balloons due to manufacturing
[17:32] <eroomde> so it might be difficult to make it work in practice
[17:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes ok i understand
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[17:33] <eroomde> so i think a lot of these crazy high balloons are burst at a similar outside pressure
[17:33] <eroomde> but the altitude at which you find that pressure probably varies a lot with seasons and weather and so on
[17:34] <BrainDamage> I bet uv degradation plays a role too
[17:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes there are some experiments there
[17:34] <BrainDamage> as well as any abuse of the balloon on the ground
[17:35] <eroomde> what are you suggesting :p
[17:35] <eroomde> BrainDamage: i expect that too
[17:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im totalt blank at ballon launches, so here goes a stupid question. Why do you have gloves on, when you fill the ballon. To protect it from nails or can the sweet/grese also have an effect?
[17:35] <eroomde> but equally i don't think uv damage would affect the height so much
[17:36] <eroomde> but more it would affect how long it stays at float
[17:36] <eroomde> although of course uv would make weak spots
[17:36] <eroomde> OZ1SKY_Brian: yep, sweat
[17:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok
[17:36] <eroomde> though i'm not massively convinced it makes much difference
[17:36] <eroomde> the balloons are covered in talc anyway
[17:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i see, like latex gloves
[17:38] <eroomde> yeah
[17:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hope i can join a launch in the future, and see whats going on with my own eyes
[17:38] <eroomde> yeah
[17:38] <eroomde> see if you can come over for the ukhas conference this year
[17:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> when is that?
[17:38] <eroomde> i don't think it's been decided yet
[17:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah ok
[17:39] <eroomde> it was october last year
[17:39] <eroomde> but some were talking about having it a bit early this year
[17:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> where does it normaly take place?
[17:39] <eroomde> upu and jcoxon are the people to ask
[17:39] <eroomde> it was in london last year - that was the first ever one
[17:39] <eroomde> and it was a really successful day i thought
[17:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok thats easy from here, theres a route from the local airport
[17:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> would be the first time in the UK, one of the few EU places i havent been yet for some reason.
[17:41] <eroomde> if it's not london it'll probably be cambridge
[17:41] <eroomde> which is super easy to get to from london anyway
[17:41] <eroomde> 40 minute train
[17:41] <eroomde> infact less if you fly to stansted airport
[17:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes thats easy
[17:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes its stansted
[17:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ryanair have a route to stanated from here
[17:43] <eroomde> cool
[17:43] <eroomde> super easy either way then
[17:43] <cuddykid> should have a HAB trip to the desert in states where we can launch crazy things :P
[17:43] <eroomde> rockoons
[17:44] <cuddykid> definately
[17:44] <cuddykid> drop chairs from 30+km
[17:46] <eroomde> that too
[17:46] <eroomde> you've a taste for media work now huh :)
[17:46] <cuddykid> yeah - I'm sure if we got out entrepreneurial brains on we could fund the trip from promos etc
[17:47] <eroomde> sponsorship is easy sometimes
[17:48] <eroomde> from a project point of you
[17:48] <eroomde> point of view*
[17:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] MONDO launches Saturday"
[17:48] <eroomde> you just have to explain to potential donators that sponsorship is different to 'buying something'
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[18:13] <Bob_G8NSV> Hi navrac you about?
[18:14] <Bob_G8NSV> Hi all got my duino and an rfm22 on the breadboard!!
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander_> cool, Bob_G8NSV, how does it perform?
[18:18] <Bob_G8NSV> not running yet some bugs in the code need to talk to navrac
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[18:18] <Bob_G8NSV> getting errors in the rfm set frequency bit
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander_> but it is the one with variable frequency, right?
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[18:19] <Bob_G8NSV> and errors in the tiny gps bit but not too worried about that as will be totally re-doing that bit as not using a ublox
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander_> which GPS do you want to use?
[18:21] <Bob_G8NSV> using fastrax it100 its a simple nmea device, rom based. payload is for solar balloons wont be going above the 14K limit
[18:21] <Bob_G8NSV> it uses the sony chipset
[18:21] <Bob_G8NSV> cheap as not expected to be coming back!!!
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander_> and which arduino do you have?
[18:25] <Bob_G8NSV> a nano v3 on the breadboard ATmaga 328 but may be flying a smaller board with a !^* if the code fits and it runs ok
[18:26] <Bob_G8NSV> 168!
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander_> what does !^* mean?
[18:27] <number10> its code for 168
[18:27] <Bob_G8NSV> I should be able to run with pretty simple GPS code as it just outputs a simple NMEA string that should have been AT mega 168
[18:27] <Bob_G8NSV> finger stuck to shift key
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander_> ah I see XD
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander_> sorry
[18:28] <Bob_G8NSV> you can turn various NMEA strings on or off, as needed, ill only run with what is needed, less "junk" to parse
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander_> I think the ublox has that too
[18:29] <Bob_G8NSV> most do
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander_> but what I would like to have in the ublox is something that holds the data
[18:29] <fsphil> you can turn nmea off completely
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander_> I think that could make programming it even easier
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[18:29] <Bob_G8NSV> this device is only nmea
[18:31] <Bob_G8NSV> very small though and low enough power, the solar will only float during daylight then crash, but it could be hundreds of KM's away!!
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[18:31] <Bob_G8NSV> the calculated max altitude is well below this devices 14Km limit
[18:32] <Bob_G8NSV> The envelope will be sub 2M so a Pico Solar
[18:33] <Bob_G8NSV> Pico launches have a lot of advantages
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[18:39] <gonzo_> eve
[18:39] <Bob_G8NSV> hi
[18:39] <fsphil> 'nin
[18:39] <gonzo_> anyone genned up on fldigi?
[18:39] <gonzo_> an jusdt the man!
[18:39] <gonzo_> ah
[18:40] <gonzo_> Randomskk has added my tracker to the db, I have telem decoding but nowt in the text bar
[18:40] <fsphil> payload selected?
[18:41] <gonzo_> yep BONZO1
[18:41] <gonzo_> I have the $$BONZO1, which I assumed is enough to get it's attention
[18:41] <fsphil> is the string appearing in the text box to the right of the radio control?
[18:42] <gonzo_> nope
[18:42] <gonzo_> but good decodes in the main window
[18:42] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] MONDO launches Saturday"
[18:43] <fsphil> odd. can you capture a short sample?
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander_> hi daveake_
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander_> Upu, would you agree if the Ublox had an EEPROM or so it would be more awesome?
[18:45] <Upu> put one on it
[18:45] <fsphil> if your program sets up the ublox properly, it won't need an eeprom
[18:45] <Upu> very easy to wire up a n I2C
[18:45] <gonzo_> $$BONZO1,102,18:45:07,+5044.15280,-00156.21438,46.5,1023,0139,0136*B6AE
[18:46] <fsphil> audio sample, sorry
[18:46] <gonzo_> ah, hmmm, that will take thought
[18:46] <fsphil> fldigi can capture to a wav file
[18:47] <fsphil> file > audio > rx capture
[18:47] <gonzo_> but that is a copy from the decode window, so assume that is where fldigi takes the data from?
[18:47] <gonzo_> rr
[18:47] <fsphil> it feeds of the modems output
[18:47] <fsphil> are you using the beta fldigi?
[18:50] <gonzo_> www.g0nzo.co.uk/misc/tty/BONZO1.wav
[18:51] <fsphil> hmm, worked
[18:52] <fsphil> got the latitude and longitude wrong but it recognised it
[18:52] <gonzo_> 3.20.29
[18:52] <gonzo_> all just crashed
[18:52] <fsphil> you're using the gps-style coordinates
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[18:53] <gonzo_> yep, extracted from the nmea string
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[18:54] <fsphil> not sure why it isn't picking up your strings
[18:55] <gonzo_> back up again. Same still
[18:57] <fsphil> I'm using this version: https://github.com/downloads/danielrichman/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-3.21.38_setup.exe
[18:57] <fsphil> worth a try
[18:57] <gonzo_> ta will do
[18:57] <fsphil> you've pressed autoconfigure haven't you?
[18:58] <Bob_G8NSV> hi gonzo what radio and cpu are you using?
[18:58] <gonzo_> ntx2 and pic16f876
[18:59] <fsphil> I've updated your payload config to recognise the gps coords
[18:59] <Bob_G8NSV> arduino and rfm22 here!
[19:00] <gonzo_> ah just g=had a green!
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[19:00] <gonzo_> you planning a flight bob
[19:01] <gonzo_> ?
[19:01] <gonzo_> ah, the alt field is incorrect fsphil
[19:04] <fsphil> is it?
[19:04] <fsphil> ah it is
[19:04] <fsphil> yea I wonder if the old fldigi was stricter with the fields
[19:05] <fsphil> what are the fields suppose to be?
[19:06] <gonzo_> / $$BONZO1,<COUNTER DDDf>,<TIME HH:MM:SSf>,<LATITUDE signDD.DDDDDDv>,<LONGITUDE signDD.DDDDDDv>,<ALTITUDE METRES MMM.MMv>,
[19:06] <gonzo_> / <ADC1 DDDDf>,<ADC2 DDDDf>,<ADC2 DDDDf>*<CHECKSUM><NEWLINE>
[19:07] <gonzo_> the adc'a are:
[19:07] <gonzo_> 1 - batt
[19:07] <jonsowman> fsphil: did you build Randomskk's frequency tracking code into dl-fldigi?
[19:07] <gonzo_> 2 - Temp(int)
[19:07] <gonzo_> 3 - Temp(ext)
[19:07] <fsphil> jonsowman, I've started but not finished. it's still the basic version in dl-fldigi
[19:08] <jonsowman> okay :)
[19:08] <fsphil> at the moment it retunes +/-500hz when it reaches a boundary. I'm gonna have it tune in small steps if it can
[19:08] <jonsowman> yeah, i was using it with HABE
[19:09] <jonsowman> when it jumps it drops a char or two
[19:09] <fsphil> I had it on xaben, left for lunch and it was still tracking when I got home :)
[19:09] <jonsowman> adam's retunes continuously
[19:09] <fsphil> yep
[19:09] <fsphil> not all radios like that, so it'll probably be optional
[19:09] <jonsowman> oh okay
[19:09] <jonsowman> what don't they like?
[19:10] <fsphil> some radios (funcube dongle) can't tune in small steps
[19:10] <jonsowman> ah okay
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[19:10] <jonsowman> what's the min step?
[19:10] <jonsowman> perhaps have that as the setting, "min retuning step"
[19:10] <Bob_G8NSV> was trying to get the frequency tracking working on mine yesterday, which ios the best version of fldigi for this?
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[19:11] <fsphil> Bob_G8NSV, the beta posted above - the current stable release has a small bug in it
[19:11] <fsphil> it stops tracking after a few strings
[19:11] <Bob_G8NSV> aha
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[19:12] <fsphil> jonsowman, not sure actually. must measure. when I tried it, the auto tune kept fighting it and it just made a mess
[19:12] <jonsowman> okay :)
[19:12] <fsphil> but yea, a minimum step option would solve that
[19:12] <Bob_G8NSV> yes gonzo am planning some pico solar flights, sub 2m envelopes
[19:12] <jonsowman> fsphil: i think min step allows it to cope neatly with all radios
[19:13] <gonzo_> Will you get a solar balloon under 2mtrs?
[19:13] <jonsowman> rather than trying to allow or disallow continuous tuning
[19:13] <fsphil> the coarser the step, the more likely it is to drop a character though
[19:13] <jonsowman> yeah
[19:13] <Bob_G8NSV> yes but must have a light payload and wont make a lot of height
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander_> btw, the 2 m sphere, does that mean that the payload also must be in that sphere or may the balloon be a max. 2 m diameter sphere?
[19:13] <jonsowman> you want the step to remain inside the rx filter bandwidth really
[19:13] <Bob_G8NSV> yes all must be within 2m
[19:14] <Morseman> Bob_G8NSV version 3.21.38 I think is what I use and freq tracking seems to work but it does seem to suddenly jump
[19:14] <Bob_G8NSV> ahh I didnt wait for it to get to the limits, i thought it would keep it centralised
[19:15] <fsphil> yea it's a big retune to centre it
[19:15] <Bob_G8NSV> anyone know why my rfm 22 code comes up saying sketch_apr17a:22: error: 'class rfm22' has no member named 'setFrequency'
[19:16] <jonsowman> Bob_G8NSV: it will keep it central soon
[19:16] <Bob_G8NSV> the class is downloaded from the github with the test prog?
[19:16] <Bob_G8NSV> jonsowman thanks
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[19:17] <Morseman> Anyone know why 3.28.31 wouldn't work out dis/bearing for the HABE flight the other day?
[19:18] <Morseman> Autoconfigure had no effect and there wasn't a screen like in the older version that told me what the fields would do
[19:19] <fsphil> odd, the bearing worked ok here
[19:19] <Morseman> All I got was the smiley face when the checksum was OK
[19:20] <eroomde> 19:17 < Morseman> Anyone know why 3.28.31 wouldn't work out dis/bearing for the HABE flight the other day?
[19:20] <eroomde> maybe it was too full of dis/bear to be able to concentrate properly
[19:20] <jonsowman> :\
[19:20] <Morseman> Oh, and in the past I've noticed the dist/bearing get cleared if a bad decode is received. I think the previous version kept the previous details in?
[19:21] <Bob_G8NSV> mine did that as well, just loaded the one from the link above
[19:21] <fsphil> eroomde, oh dear
[19:21] <Bob_G8NSV> now only shows current payloads?
[19:21] <fsphil> there's a tick box to show testing payload stoo
[19:22] <Bob_G8NSV> oohh!
[19:22] <Morseman> There's a tick box "Show test docs" that allows you to see them all Bob_G8NSV
[19:22] <Bob_G8NSV> neat
[19:22] <fsphil> the amount of payloads on the list got a little mad in the old version:)
[19:22] <fsphil> so this way only active ones show up, unless you want them all
[19:22] <Bob_G8NSV> yes just the current ones is very useful
[19:23] <Morseman> I think that I've had to tick that box in the past to even see the latest launches as well
[19:23] <Morseman> Maybe it's a setting when the docs are originally uploaded?
[19:23] <fsphil> sometimes people forget to set their launch times
[19:24] <Morseman> Ah, that'll be it then fsphil
[19:24] <fsphil> like xaben yesterday
[19:24] <fsphil> er, at the weekend
[19:24] <Bob_G8NSV> bizzare with this rfm22 setfrequency thing
[19:24] Action: fsphil fails with time
[19:25] <Bob_G8NSV> anyone here familiar with that rfm22 library? navrac is not around at mo
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[19:26] <fsphil-laptop> hmm.. I think the inverter in my laptop screen is going to die soon. each time I turn it on there's big dark spots near the bottom
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander_> OHHH
[19:27] <fsphil-laptop> now if only pixel qi made a matching screen
[19:28] <daveake_> Bob_GNSV IIRC SetFrequency is missing from the minimalist rfm22 library. Cut 'n' paste it from the rf22 one
[19:29] <daveake_> Bob_G8NSV even
[19:30] <Bob_G8NSV> just looking in there now odd its not there, just copy the line called set frequency?
[19:31] <daveake_> Bit more to it than that :-) You need the line in the header file and the function in the main file
[19:32] <daveake_> I'm not on my main PC right now but if you get stuck I can send you my modded files
[19:33] <Bob_G8NSV> yes it looks far more complex, cant work out how
[19:34] <Bob_G8NSV> will look and see if I can figure it out, an odd thing to have missing???
[19:34] <daveake_> ok, just about to eat I'll email the files after
[19:34] <daveake_> yeah strange one
[19:34] <Bob_G8NSV> thanks for that it will be a great help
[19:35] <Bob_G8NSV> maybe they figured you would hard code the frequency? wierd
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[20:24] <fsphil-laptop> typical, my bmp085 has gotten lost in my filing system...
[20:25] <daveake_> Buy a new one. Then it'll magically appear within 5 minutes.
[20:26] <Randomskk> hey eroomde
[20:26] <Randomskk> just for you
[20:26] <Randomskk> http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/04/17/1338225/macbook-pro-fragrance-created
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[20:38] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> "This article is going to spawn about 40 attempts at +1 Funny and another 40 Troll results."
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander_> XD yea daveake_
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander_> I actually now have four BMP085 and four HIH-4030
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander_> also for reasons of having like a replacement ready
[20:47] <fsphil-laptop> I know it's on my desk somewhere....
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> let's ask Wheatly
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
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[20:48] <fsphil-laptop> who?
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander_> the sphere with the blue eye from Portal 2
[20:49] <fsphil-laptop> ah
[20:49] <fsphil-laptop> not played portal
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[20:49] <Lunar_Lander_> damn
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander_> too late to greet him
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander_> fsphil-laptop, ah ok
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander_> the cool thing is, he talks like an Englishman
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:50] <fsphil-laptop> oh spiffy
[20:50] <daveake_> jolly good
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander_> "The bloody test subjects"
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander_> "Imagine what happens when management comes down here and sees that the bloody test subjects have turned into ten thousand vegetables?"
[20:51] <nigelvh> Wheatley does the best science.
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander_> like cubes with legs
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[20:51] <fsphil-laptop> ah ha, found it
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander_> btw what does it mean when a person is a vegetable?
[20:52] <nigelvh> Brain dead
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander_> cause I saw a british public info film on youtube
[20:52] <nigelvh> comatose
[20:52] <nigelvh> etc.
[20:52] <fsphil-laptop> don't believe anything you see on youtube
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander_> where a group of kids cross the train tracks and then the one boy has his feet cut off by the train cause he fell
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander_> and then his sister is in hospital and only stares forward
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander_> and someone in the comments said "she turned into a vegetable"
[20:53] <nigelvh> Yeah, mostly it's in reference to when people lose their cognitive abilities.
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:54] <gonzo_> or spent too long watching commercial tv
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> ah
[20:54] <BrainDamage> one implies the other
[20:54] <fsphil-laptop> or a fan of the x factor
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> btw fsphil-laptop the description said that the movie was shown in schools
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> to show pupils the dangers of crossing the railway
[20:54] <fsphil-laptop> probably was Lunar_Lander_
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[20:54] <fsphil-laptop> the ones we got in school where usually about running across the road without looking
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander_> ohh
[20:54] <gonzo_> public info films were popular once
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander_> I think there was another one about the dangers on farms
[20:55] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander_> where one gets run over by a tractor trailer
[20:55] <fsphil-laptop> they can be quite graphic those adds
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:55] <nigelvh> The only films I remember was the one of the really hairy 80s lady giving birth. That was scarring.
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander_> ohhhh!
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[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> man this sensor is tiny
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> do you have it as the breakout?
[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> even that's tiny
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> true
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> I got one that I keep as my first soldering attempt
[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> need to dig out some headers
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> which failed due to 1) weak iron
[20:57] <jonsowman> which sensor?
[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> get this soldered up
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander_> 2) my stupidity
[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> bmp085 jonsowman
[20:57] <jonsowman> oh yes
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> I broke off 6 pins from that row of 40 I bought at sparkfun
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> but I broke them off as one each
[20:58] <fsphil-laptop> these can be soldered in an oven can't they?
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> so they moved around all the time
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> then i was told that you break off as many as there are holes in a row
[20:58] <fsphil-laptop> hehe
[20:58] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander_> fsphil-laptop, the sensor can be soldered to the breakout that way afaik
[20:58] <daveake_> sorry, but lolo
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[20:59] <daveake_> -o
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> her name was lolo
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> they told me it was the worst soldering job they have ever seen
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> she was a dancer
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> they=Sparkfun chat
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> that's something to be proud of Lunar_Lander_ :)
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> xD!
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> and who sang it?
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> Ray Davies IIRC?
[20:59] <daveake_> mmmcherry cola
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> dunno actually
[20:59] <daveake_> Kinks, yes
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> I'll have to listen to that tune sometime
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> never heard all of it
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[21:01] <Lunar_Lander_> I only learned through wikipedia that Lola actually is a man in the song
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[21:03] <Lunar_Lander_> or so
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> the dangers of drink :)
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
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[21:05] <Lunar_Lander_> lol wikipedia says that the song is allegedly based on a true story
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lola_(song)
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[21:37] <gonzo_> c
[21:39] <jonsowman> d
[21:39] <gonzo_> eve
[21:39] <jonsowman> hi
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander_> btw
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident
[21:40] <fsphil> bmp085 breakout soldered
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident
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[21:48] <Lunar_Lander_> what do you think of that accident?
[21:57] <gonzo_> c
[21:57] <gonzo_> agh, wrong window agn
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[22:05] <tstowe> hi all
[22:05] <fsphil-laptop> evenin tstowe
[22:07] <tstowe> from Norway, I think i saw a video of someone from your part of the word speak at TED
[22:07] <tstowe> about a HAB project
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[22:08] <tstowe> it was Tim Zaman
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander_> he rocks
[22:10] <tstowe> I haven't tried to transmit from the air but it looks interesting
[22:10] <fsphil-laptop> ah, the Tim method
[22:10] <fsphil-laptop> launch and hope for the best :)
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[22:11] <tstowe> shame it didn't work during his presentation at TEDx
[22:11] <fsphil-laptop> hiya RocketBoy, just got your email
[22:11] <RocketBoy> cool
[22:11] <fsphil-laptop> indeed. though he's launches rarely go to plan :)
[22:11] <fsphil-laptop> he's / his
[22:12] <tstowe> yeah, one came down in the North Sea...I think
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander_> hello RocketBoy and once again congratulations for the world altitude record
[22:13] <fsphil-laptop> His first launch landed in water.. quite far out too, but he managed to get a boat and recover it
[22:13] <fsphil-laptop> there's a great video on youtube of it
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[22:14] <RocketBoy> fsphil-laptop where did the tracker put HADIE2 landing spot again?
[22:14] <fsphil-laptop> RocketBoy, 54.3629, -1.88296
[22:15] <fsphil-laptop> tstowe, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NrmeVZ1j8g
[22:16] <tstowe> cool
[22:16] <fsphil-laptop> I think that was the first sea recovery
[22:16] <tstowe> he is also online at http://www.timzaman.nl
[22:17] <RocketBoy> fsphil-laptop thats about 7km further south east
[22:17] <fsphil-laptop> suspect you're right about that last point RocketBoy
[22:17] <fsphil-laptop> ooch
[22:18] <RocketBoy> well its there somewhere - but big search area
[22:18] <RocketBoy> might be best to ring round the farmers and see if they have found it
[22:19] <RocketBoy> was it marked?
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[22:19] <fsphil-laptop> it was yea, got my email address and mobile number
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[22:20] <fsphil-laptop> yea that's a huge area
[22:20] <RocketBoy> and hilly
[22:20] <fsphil-laptop> looks like a valley on the map
[22:21] <RocketBoy> still not so many trees
[22:21] <RocketBoy> it is but surrounded by hills
[22:21] <fsphil-laptop> explains why the signal disappeared so high up
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[22:22] <fsphil-laptop> well that and that it was very weak
[22:23] <RocketBoy> Nice place to spend a few days walking around with an HF rig backpack
[22:24] <fsphil-laptop> was thinking that :) find a nice spot up on one of the hills to the north or south
[22:24] <fsphil-laptop> and bring a good pair of binoculars
[22:24] <fsphil-laptop> if it's on the ground it should stand out
[22:25] <fsphil-laptop> interesting that the last prediction 14 has it quite further east than the rest
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[22:27] <RocketBoy> yeah - heading toward the tracker prediction
[22:27] <fsphil-laptop> Swale Hill lane is right in the middle
[22:28] <fsphil-laptop> I'll see if I can find contact details for anyone near there
[22:28] <RocketBoy> sounds like a plan
[22:28] <fsphil-laptop> thanks for running that through the prediction!
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> fergusnoble also linked to the archived wind data for that day
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander_> and would you take a tent too?
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> I'll see if I can re-run the predictor with what is hopefully the most accurate data
[22:29] <RocketBoy> oh right
[22:29] <Randomskk> fsphil-laptop: ooh, where's the archive?
[22:29] <RocketBoy> yes that would be good
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> one sec, on the other machine
[22:29] <Randomskk> nevermind
[22:29] <Randomskk> got it
[22:29] <fsphil> lol
[22:30] <Randomskk> :P
[22:30] <fsphil> well I'm here anyway, so http://nomads.ncdc.noaa.gov/data/
[22:30] <RocketBoy> also perhaps change their descent model - cos it seems to be out
[22:30] <Randomskk> yea
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[22:30] <Randomskk> fsphil-laptop: if you have pred built locally it should be possible to do
[22:30] <Randomskk> not super trivial. dunno what'd be the easiest way
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> I have it built but only for the hourly prediction
[22:31] <Randomskk> it looks like they have the grb2 files
[22:31] <Randomskk> which iirc are GRIB files
[22:31] <Randomskk> there was once a script to turn GRIB files into the CSV the predictor uses
[22:31] <RocketBoy> right i'm off - nights
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[22:31] <Randomskk> GRB2 is also a recombinant human protein
[22:31] <Randomskk> nice
[22:31] <Randomskk> anyway
[22:32] <fsphil-laptop> I'll take a copy of it and figure it out later :)
[22:33] <fsphil-laptop> gfs4 is the one I'm after yea?
[22:33] <Randomskk> think so
[22:33] <Randomskk> gfs to be sure
[22:33] <Randomskk> dunno what the 4 indicates
[22:34] <Randomskk> looks like it's just a version or something
[22:34] <Randomskk> gfs and gfs3 go up to 2005
[22:34] <Randomskk> and 4 up to the present
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[22:38] <fsphil-laptop> Grid4
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[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> hehe, that's a lot of data
[22:42] <Randomskk> yea.. :P
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> wonder if they distribute it compressed on dvd
[22:42] <Randomskk> you know what's in those things?
[22:42] <Randomskk> it's amazing
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> the atmosphere of the earth basically
[22:42] <Randomskk> wind is the least of it
[22:42] <Randomskk> yea
[22:43] <Randomskk> http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20120325/gfs_00z.info
[22:43] <Randomskk> the entire surface really
[22:43] <Randomskk> picking a few at random: ice cover, average categorical snow, cloud work function, long-wave radiation flux, surface heat flux...
[22:44] <Randomskk> surface accumulated water runoff
[22:44] <Randomskk> surface water equivalent of accumualted snow depth
[22:44] <Randomskk> a week's prediction of all of this
[22:44] <Randomskk> for the entire planet
[22:44] <Randomskk> it's insane
[22:45] <Randomskk> temperatures 2m below ground up to 3k above ground
[22:45] <fsphil-laptop> nice -- I honestly thought it was just wind
[22:45] <fsphil-laptop> 1.1gb so far
[22:45] <Randomskk> it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Forecast_System
[22:47] <fsphil-laptop> it's a big deal then
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[22:47] <Randomskk> it's a ridiculously cool amount of data
[22:48] <fsphil-laptop> glad it's available freely
[22:48] <Randomskk> very
[22:49] <fsphil-laptop> noaa have a nice internet connection, downloading at 4MB/s
[22:49] <Randomskk> DanielRichman did some investigate work on how fast we could get data from them
[22:49] <Randomskk> the data's available in a range of protocols and formats
[22:49] <Randomskk> some end up being really very fast indeed and highly parallelisable but it depends on what you need
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[22:50] <Bob_G8NSV> got me rfm22b bleeping away!!
[22:51] <fsphil-laptop> victory!
[22:52] <fsphil-laptop> 2.4gb already, hmm I'd be better downloading this at the office
[22:53] <Bob_G8NSV> yes at last I remembered how to program in arduino. helps when you remember where to put globasl definitions and stuff you dont want to declre every time!
[22:54] <Bob_G8NSV> next bit is to ghet it sending rtty
[22:54] <Bob_G8NSV> not just bleeping like sputnik!!
[22:54] <fsphil-laptop> hey, that was revolutionary at the time :)
[22:54] <Bob_G8NSV> this is for me!
[22:55] <Bob_G8NSV> been about 3 years since I programmed an arduino
[22:55] <fsphil-laptop> I've been doing a fair bit of avr programming lately. it's good fun
[22:56] <Bob_G8NSV> trouble is a lot of examples out there are just that, they have swathes of stuff missing
[22:56] <fsphil-laptop> or are so badly written it's just painful
[22:57] <Bob_G8NSV> prob that too, but with me its that they are not working examples just code snippets
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 18 2012