[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> what is currently being discussed :)?
[00:05] <r2x0t> NMEA string parsing hackish way...
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[00:11] <Matt_soton> ok so it compiles
[00:12] <Matt_soton> thanks r2x0t, although i did modify it a bit to use an array offset rather then a string pointer
[00:12] <Matt_soton> but the principle is the same
[00:12] <Morseman> GN all
[00:13] <r2x0t> Matt_soton: this was just something I wrote in chat window, haven't tested or used it or anything... beware of bugs :)
[00:14] <Matt_soton> yea i rewrote it for array offset anyway
[00:14] <Matt_soton> and long hand so its all nice and clear
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[00:21] <Matt_soton> all seems good
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[01:07] <rdvonz> I got moved from #electronics to here, I have a question concerning ways to transmit data back down to the ground. Any common methods?
[01:10] <Randomskk> radios usually
[01:10] <Randomskk> often on 434MHz license free
[01:10] <Randomskk> in the UK anyway, where it's a 10mW max power...
[01:10] <Randomskk> but uhm
[01:10] <Randomskk> what are you transmitting from?
[01:12] <rdvonz> I'm in the US, I was trying to figure out which frequency to transmit using a radio. long range AM transmitters seem easy to build, but lots of restrictions over her.
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[01:13] <Randomskk> ah indeed
[01:13] <Randomskk> for US flights you might find it easiest to use ham radio kit
[01:13] <Randomskk> lots of power
[01:13] <Randomskk> and then you can transmit your position over APRS
[01:13] <Randomskk> which means lots of receivers
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[01:33] <rdvonz> Randomskk: If I just wanted to send temperature, pressure, and humidity data back down but I had the balloon tethered what could I get away with
[01:33] <rdvonz> ?
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[02:30] <SpeedEvil> what altitude?
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[03:41] <heathkid> tethered?
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[05:25] <markdownunder>
[05:26] <Darkside> .
[05:26] <Darkside> markdownunder: yo
[05:26] <markdownunder> all quiet ?
[05:26] <Darkside> most peopel are asleep
[05:27] <Darkside> i'm not :P
[05:27] <Darkside> <-- australian
[05:27] <markdownunder> i'm just on the wrong side of the world for that
[05:27] <markdownunder> in Perth
[05:27] <Darkside> aha, adelaide here, Project Horus
[05:27] <x-f> good evening, aussies
[05:28] <markdownunder> ah I was emaiing terry@horus last night
[05:28] <Darkside> ahh :-)
[05:28] <Darkside> you have airspace problems in perth, don;t you
[05:29] <markdownunder> not sure yet.. i am doing my homework at the moment to check that sort of thing
[05:29] <markdownunder> there is plenty of space in wa but not many roads
[05:29] <Darkside> i think the perth hackerspace group was looking at doign launches
[05:29] <Darkside> they got told they had to fly a ADS_B beacon, which is pretty unrealistic
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[05:30] <markdownunder> your kidding ?
[05:30] <Darkside> nope
[05:30] <Darkside> pretty sure they spoke tothe wrong person at CASA :P
[05:30] <Darkside> theres a certain guy that is best to talk to, not sure who, but terry knows
[05:31] <markdownunder> hmm. in WA the authorities are so heavy handed about everything. its a police state
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[05:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] You are invited to Mission Control Training this weekend"
[05:41] <Darkside> yeah 1600UTC isn't happening
[05:41] <Darkside> thats early morning here..
[05:43] <Upu> well I'm not release those mails from Astrobiologist that are awaiting moderation.....
[05:44] <x-f> :>
[05:44] <Upu> morning
[05:44] <x-f> morning
[05:45] <markdownunder> hey.
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[05:46] <spannerman> hey peoples
[05:46] <Upu> Evening antipodes
[06:02] <Upu> sorry afternoon
[06:02] <Darkside> :P
[06:02] <Darkside> 3:30pm here
[06:03] <Upu> yeah I just noticed
[06:03] <Darkside> just sent off a big pcb order
[06:03] <Darkside> 4 different designs
[06:03] <Upu> Seeed ?
[06:03] <Darkside> nope
[06:03] <Darkside> got a friend who has contacts in shenzhen
[06:03] <Upu> ok
[06:03] <Darkside> better quality PCBs than seeed too
[06:03] <Darkside> way better
[06:05] <Upu> never had an issue with Seeed, not for the price anyway
[06:05] <Darkside> i've had misaligned vias and stuff
[06:05] <Darkside> which is annoying
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[06:06] <Upu> not had that
[06:06] <Upu> my only complaint is the delivery is very hit and miss speed wise
[06:06] <Darkside> mm
[06:07] <Upu> what did you have made anyway ?
[06:07] <Darkside> my software defined radio boards
[06:07] <Upu> oh yeah
[06:07] <Darkside> and a usb ublox NEO-6Q/T breakout board
[06:07] <Upu> should be interesting
[06:07] <Darkside> which i'm going to use to experiment with the NEO-6T timing module
[06:07] <Upu> ok
[06:08] <Upu> did the original one not breakout the PPS ?
[06:08] <Upu> or is there something else on the timing module ?
[06:08] <Darkside> the timing module has a way more accurate PPS
[06:08] <Darkside> and i want to be abe to talk USB to it
[06:08] <Upu> ok
[06:08] <Darkside> remember, the NEO modules have a usb port on them
[06:08] <Upu> yep
[06:08] <Upu> ok best get to work
[06:09] <Upu> catch you later
[06:09] <Darkside> kk
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[06:15] <Elmar_PD3EM> morning
[06:15] <jcoxon> morning Elmar_PD3EM
[06:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morning James!
[06:18] <jcoxon> thanks for all the help yesterday
[06:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> It was bad luck with the reception yesterday...
[06:18] <jcoxon> yeah
[06:18] <jcoxon> navrac might have found out why
[06:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> what can it have been?
[06:19] <jcoxon> it might be related to a setting on the radio
[06:19] <jcoxon> which damaged the radio itself
[06:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> you used a NTX2?
[06:19] <jcoxon> hence the low output
[06:19] <jcoxon> no rfm22b
[06:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> or the rmf?
[06:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> aha
[06:19] <jcoxon> we'll work it out :-)
[06:20] <Elmar_PD3EM> great
[06:20] <Elmar_PD3EM> hope its still in the air
[06:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> but it could only be recovered via visual tracking :-(
[06:21] <jcoxon> so next flight will be back to full power!
[06:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> looking forward to it
[06:22] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'm still truggling with the code for the ms5607 temp/pressure sensor
[06:24] <Elmar_PD3EM> Temperature readings/calculations are fine now but pressure is at -31000 mbar :-(
[06:25] <jcoxon> oh
[06:25] <jcoxon> does it calculate the altitude correctly?
[06:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> no, same problem. I live abt 1m below sea level but calculation goed 300 meter deaper
[06:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> digital values are read from the sensor for pressure end temperature and the rest is calculated
[06:31] <jcoxon> maybe there is some better example code out there
[06:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> I've asked on the parallax forum
[06:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> the documents on the website show also differnt calculation (options)
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[07:00] <Lou_> Hello
[07:03] <jcoxon> hi
[07:08] <Lou_> I'm a french student and i've got a project to send a Balloon in the stratosphere. I'd like to have some infomration about this.
[07:09] <jcoxon> Lou_, great, this is a good place to come
[07:09] <jcoxon> have you seen the wiki: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[07:10] <jcoxon> also you should speak with F6AGV - he is very knowledgable about balloons in france
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[07:38] <fsphil> I'd be really chuffed if my pico got to france
[07:38] <fsphil> or even launched at this rate :)
[07:38] <daveake> or misses a tree on the way up?
[07:40] <fsphil> mm.. I'll have to be careful where I launch
[07:41] <fsphil> the local forest park is definitely out
[07:44] <fsphil> http://research.swtch.com/field ... "You probably recognize those properties from high school algebra class" .. I guess I went to the wrong school :/
[07:45] <daveake> Any news at on on jcoxon's pico? I see the map hasn't updated since yesterday afternoon. Anyone got any bleeps from it?
[07:46] <number10> this fulfills both requirements for you pico fsphil 50.977896, 2.084328
[07:47] <number10> I dont think anyone heard it in holland daveake
[07:47] <daveake> ok ta. Shame.
[07:50] <daveake> Oh, my high-density foam arrived yesterday
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[07:57] <number10> picture of CUSF project Nova in Electronics Weeekly article http://i.imgur.com/SjiB9.jpg
[07:57] <number10> from 2006
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[08:24] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Re: Launching this Saturday 14th"
[08:27] <UpuWork> I see a Steve Randall there
[08:29] <fsphil> replying to an unrelated thread?
[08:29] <daveake> The CUSF pic a few lines up
[08:29] <UpuWork> yeah sorry just got in
[08:30] <fsphil> ah
[08:30] <daveake> It's like hearing rtty in white noise, if you look at any HAB launch photo you'll see a Steve Randall there somewhere
[08:30] <fsphil> Do you win prizes if you spot a steve randall?
[08:30] <fsphil> I've spotted him a few times now
[08:30] <UpuWork> :)
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[08:37] <Darkside> hmm
[08:37] <Darkside> so if terry is the australian ed
[08:37] <Darkside> and i'm the australian adam
[08:37] <Darkside> who is the australian steve
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[08:40] <fsphil> is there an australian lunar_lander?
[08:40] <fsphil> oh wait, he'd be from new zealand
[08:43] <fsphil> there's a group of australians visiting our office shortly
[08:43] <fsphil> they've got to be pretty jet lagged
[08:50] <gonzo_> did we get any more sigs from Pico?
[08:53] <navrac> dutch mill heard it north of hiom but couldnt decode
[08:54] <fsphil> so it's possibly to damage an rfm22b through software?
[08:56] <navrac> possibly - not 100% sure till ive deliberatly broken one
[08:56] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] You are invited to Mission Control Training this weekend"
[08:57] <daveake> I've not killed one yet. I must have gotten close by accidentally sending ~5V to it from the DC-DC converter
[08:58] <navrac> jcoxon and i both ran our boards for >24hours testing preflight. In both cases the rfm power out was greatly reduced
[08:58] <navrac> ozzie1 ran for a few hours in testing and was fine
[08:59] <navrac> So either they get damaged after a long time continuous txing or
[08:59] <navrac> the fact that if you write to the powercontrol register and dont set bit3 you put the output of the tx straight into the lna
[09:01] <navrac> ozzie1 also used a different library which may have set the flag.
[09:01] <navrac> right - changing computer
[09:03] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] More provisional launch(es) for Friday 13th"
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[09:08] <fsphil> interesting
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[09:18] <navrac_> no guarantee its right. just measuring ozzie2's output versus a brand ew rfm22b ozzies is very low
[09:18] <fsphil> yea, it could just be in the manufacturing
[09:18] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> Astrobiologist
[09:19] <fsphil> how are you measuring the strength?
[09:19] <navrac_> possible - but on my s meter ozzie2 is about 10db down
[09:19] <navrac_> just on a receiver with no aerial about 5m away
[09:19] <Darkside> hmmm
[09:20] <Darkside> navrac_: so does RF22 set the register correctly or not?
[09:20] <navrac_> i use rfm22 not rf22
[09:20] <navrac_> james thinks the rf22 library doesnt
[09:20] <Darkside> there is an option in the library for modifying power
[09:21] <navrac_> but theres some discussion over whether the register only needs to be set on the rfm23 or rfm22 as well
[09:21] <Darkside> so waht register is this?
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[09:21] <navrac_> in the application notes it says if you are using a combined rx/tx aerial then you should - thats in silabs notes
[09:22] <Darkside> what register address
[09:22] <Darkside> ill work out what the RF22 library does
[09:23] <daveake> 6D
[09:23] <Darkside> ok..
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[09:23] <Darkside> #define RF22_TXPOW_LNA_SW 0x08
[09:23] <daveake> It's simply radio1.write(0x6D, 0x03);
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[09:24] <Darkside> yeah, if you want 8dBm
[09:24] <daveake> in my code, I meant to say
[09:24] <Darkside> i'm using 14dBm, so its 0x05 for me
[09:24] <daveake> sure
[09:24] <Darkside> or in my case
[09:24] <Darkside> rf22.setTxPower(RF22_TXPOW_11DBM);
[09:24] <Darkside> whoops, 14DBM
[09:25] <navrac_> im not saying it is definitely that - just going through why some rfms are lower power - it could just be they arent rated for continuous transmission
[09:25] <daveake> Like navrac I'm using the rfm22, and I just poke the value in as above rather than using any SetTxPower routine
[09:25] <daveake> ^^ "rfm22 library"
[09:25] <Darkside> i'm not continuously transmitting with mine anyway
[09:25] <RocketBoy_S2> Upu: ping
[09:25] <Darkside> i have 5 second gaps
[09:27] <navrac_> likewise
[09:27] <RocketBoy_S2> daveake: is it you or upu that has the regulator?
[09:27] <daveake> Meeee
[09:27] <Darkside> navrac_: so do you think that when you go into tx mode, that bit needs to be set?
[09:28] <UpuWork> morning Steve
[09:28] <UpuWork> its daveake
[09:28] <RocketBoy_S2> Arrrr thsn its you i need to chat to
[09:28] <UpuWork> charge him Dave!
[09:28] <UpuWork> :)
[09:28] <daveake> lol
[09:28] <navrac_> well thereas no harm in setting it - its a bit grey in th documentation - it specifically mentions its needed on the rfm23 but in the silabs docs it says it needs to be set when using a direct tie implementation which the rfm22b is
[09:29] <Darkside> hmm
[09:29] <Darkside> grr, datasheet taking ages to load
[09:29] <Darkside> my net is being shit
[09:30] <navrac_> download the register settings rather than the whle datasheet which is vague on the subject
[09:31] <Darkside> ok
[09:32] <Darkside> ok not hard to fix this
[09:32] <Darkside> just set the power|x08
[09:32] <Darkside> 0x08*
[09:32] <navrac_> http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN440.pdf page 51
[09:32] <Darkside> yes
[09:32] <Darkside> i'm there
[09:32] <Darkside> i'll set it, just in case
[09:33] <navrac_> thats what i thought - since you are doing rx and tx i thought it was best to point it out to you
[09:33] <Darkside> ok
[09:37] <cuddykid> gm
[09:38] <RocketBoy_S2> Bbl
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[09:39] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[09:39] Action: griffonbot is following: #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon #projecthorus #HABE2
[09:39] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
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[09:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Re: Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
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[09:49] <navrac_> Actually I think its a red herring - just got an rfm22b module under the magnifier and chased through its circuit - it has an rf switch built onto the board so its not a direct tie
[09:52] <kokey> ah yeah cuddykid's in the ideal situation for the channel4 thing
[09:53] <Darkside> navrac_: well it seems to work fine with tha tbit set
[09:53] <Darkside> so i'll leave it in
[09:53] <Darkside> s
[09:54] <navrac_> wont do any harm
[09:54] <navrac_> wont do any good eithr - shame really!
[09:54] <Darkside> hehe
[09:54] <kokey> seems like the current rtl-sdr source works fine with the FC0012 tuner, I gave it a quick spin last night
[09:54] <Darkside> kokey: yeah it does
[09:54] <Darkside> now get the gnuradio source block running :P
[09:55] <Darkside> or HDSDR, or whatever
[09:55] <Darkside> navrac_: i've got the cutdown board in anotehr room
[09:55] <Darkside> and i'm making it beep
[09:55] <kokey> that said, I saw someone did a nice analysis on the tuner recently so it looks like it will only be ok for certain bands
[09:55] <Darkside> (i have a buzzer wired into where the nichrome wire would normally go)
[09:55] <kokey> yeah, tonight I'll spin up gnuradio
[09:55] <Darkside> yeah, locutox did that, he's working at my uni atm :P
[09:55] <kokey> does gnuradio need a graphical interface?
[09:55] <Darkside> met him today
[09:55] <Darkside> yeah, for the GRC stuff you will
[09:56] <navrac_> darkside can you check something for me? Just want to check im not misreading something
[09:57] <Darkside> m?
[09:58] <kokey> oh well, I can spin up X or whatever
[09:59] <cuddykid> notam has come through for tomorrow
[09:59] <navrac_> darkside- its ok, just double checked it and its right
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[10:02] <cuddykid> all set up for WD's launch tomorrow - if anyone see's him on here, ask him to drop me a text please :) I think he's getting back off holiday today
[10:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Gemma Rawcliffe "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
[10:05] <daveake> Too slow, CK :p. (and no it wasn't me)
[10:05] <cuddykid> yeah! damn
[10:05] <cuddykid> wonder who it was?!
[10:06] <kokey> yeah, darn
[10:06] <kokey> would have been ideal for you
[10:06] <cuddykid> yeah, oh well
[10:06] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
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[10:17] <Darkside> fsphil: whats the link to the beta of dl-fldigi?
[10:17] <Darkside> for windows
[10:20] <cuddykid> just got an email off the producer - looks like I may be doing it now..
[10:21] <cuddykid> which would be awesome :D
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[10:22] <daveake> Good luck. Add a few hours to the launch prep time. Then add some more :)
[10:22] <fsphil> Darkside, https://github.com/downloads/danielrichman/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-3.21.38_setup.exe
[10:22] <cuddykid> start at midnight, the night before lol
[10:22] <Darkside> thx
[10:22] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=aa9a6217e521fe13d0cc6b14acb875e35f51a3eb
[10:22] <cuddykid> mon looks ok
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[10:23] Nick change: markdownunder_ -> markdownunder
[10:32] <daveake> Well that turned out well ....
[10:33] <cuddykid> it's a possibility - the wording of the email was they've contacted the other person and he might not be able to do it
[10:33] <cuddykid> fingers crossed
[10:34] <cuddykid> haven't actually tested this pico payload in the air yet.. :S
[10:40] <kokey> that other guy that launched some gopro cameras, without permission
[10:41] <kokey> seems like he did ok with keeping it stable
[10:41] <Darkside> its not too hard to keep them stable
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[10:42] <Darkside> you can use long thin booms
[10:44] <cuddykid> ping UpuWork
[10:44] <UpuWork> hi there
[10:45] <UpuWork> pm ?
[10:45] <cuddykid> hiya, it's showing your offline so it won't allow me to respond :(
[10:45] <UpuWork> odd
[10:45] <cuddykid> yeah :/
[10:45] <daveake> Well that turned out well ....
[10:45] <daveake> .... bought some high-density foam on ebay, which arrived yesterday ...
[10:45] <UpuWork> let me try from home
[10:45] <Darkside> use a better client?
[10:45] <daveake> ... together with a big box of stuff from same supplier but addressed to someone else
[10:45] <cuddykid> nice daveake!
[10:46] <cuddykid> Upu: same! gahh
[10:46] <cuddykid> let me log out
[10:46] <daveake> So I called ParcelFarce to get them to collect and re-deliver, and let the supplier know ....
[10:46] <Upu> your client sux
[10:46] <cuddykid> colloquy :P
[10:46] <cuddykid> brb
[10:46] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-78-145-199-87.as13285.net) left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[10:46] <daveake> ... who (amazed by my honesty) as refunded the £17 I paid for my foam :)
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[10:47] <UpuWork> oh HAI!
[10:47] <UpuWork> am I online ?
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> UpuWork: no
[10:47] <daveake> nope
[10:47] <cuddykid> lol
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[10:54] <SamSilver> when cuddykid gets back tell him I was looking for him
[10:54] <cuddykid> hiya SamSilver
[10:55] <SamSilver> lol pulling your chain
[10:55] <UpuWork> :)
[10:55] <SamSilver> cuddykid: how long till you find out about sponser
[10:55] <cuddykid> had an "update" :P
[10:55] <cuddykid> SamSilver: mines not going ahead - WD's is I think
[10:55] <cuddykid> he's on hols atm however
[10:56] <cuddykid> I might ask him if I can fly my pico payload underneath to test it out - providing his isn't an alt record flight etc
[10:56] <SamSilver> OOPS
[10:56] <SamSilver> opps caps
[10:56] <SamSilver> what does your weigh in at?
[10:57] <cuddykid> the person who arranges the advertising is on holiday atm therefore nothing could be sorted
[10:57] <cuddykid> SamSilver: ~60g
[10:57] <SamSilver> parra included in that?
[10:57] <cuddykid> well, it would just use Will's so no
[10:57] <cuddykid> that's just tracker and payload box
[10:58] <SamSilver> so i count three flights this weekend
[10:58] <cuddykid> sounds about right
[10:58] <Darkside> horus is flying sunday morning
[10:58] <SamSilver> bugger got to dash afk
[10:58] <Darkside> about 1:30UTS
[10:58] <Darkside> UTC*
[10:58] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[11:03] <kokey> launch sites close to each other?
[11:03] <Darkside> ?
[11:04] <kokey> for the 3 this saturday
[11:04] <Darkside> oh, nfi
[11:04] <kokey> ok so mondo is cambridge
[11:07] <cuddykid> WD's will be near Worcester
[11:07] <cuddykid> if he goes ahead
[11:12] <daveake> and Steve's is from EARS
[11:22] <kokey> cool
[11:23] <kokey> wish my car wasn't dodgy at the moment
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[11:48] <cuddykid> anyone have the exact optimal length for 1/4 wave radials?
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[11:49] <jonsowman> cuddykid: depends on frequency
[11:49] <cuddykid> jonsowman: 434.2
[11:49] <cuddykid> ~17cm?
[11:50] <jonsowman> well c = freq * wavelength
[11:50] <jonsowman> find wavelength
[11:50] <jonsowman> divide by 4 (quarter wave)
[11:50] <cuddykid> what's c?
[11:50] <jonsowman> speed of light
[11:51] <cuddykid> oh yeah, oops
[11:51] <cuddykid> :P
[11:51] <mfa298> but then it's sligtly shorter than that again as I think you want speed of light in the type of antenna you're making.
[11:52] <jonsowman> well in reality the radials should be slightly longer and the driven el slightly shorted
[11:52] <mfa298> best trick is usually to use an antenna analyser or radio tranmitter and swr meter
[11:52] <jonsowman> but tbh the difference it makes (for a HAB) is basically nothing
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[11:59] <schofieldau> Hey everyone
[11:59] <schofieldau> Darkside: how's the chase car situation looking for sunday?
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[12:01] <Darkside> schofieldau: i should know later tonight
[12:01] <Darkside> but atm i think we don't have any free seats
[12:01] <schofieldau> okay then
[12:02] <jdtanner> Are you launching your payload schofieldau?
[12:02] <schofieldau> nope, project horus is flying and I'm hoping to tag along
[12:03] <schofieldau> anything in the post yet?
[12:03] <jdtanner> Nope :(
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[12:03] <jdtanner> I can help with your RF module resisotr values now that I've got my head around the voltage divider :
[12:03] <jdtanner> :)
[12:03] <Darkside> 47K and 39K
[12:03] <Darkside> >_>
[12:04] <jdtanner> You rotter :P
[12:04] <schofieldau> okay
[12:04] <jdtanner> It was a great learning process...
[12:04] <schofieldau> lol
[12:04] <schofieldau> I'm thinking a page on the github wiki
[12:04] <jdtanner> Exactly...
[12:04] <schofieldau> except I'm in victor harbour at the moment
[12:04] <Darkside> theres a ukhas page on it
[12:05] <Darkside> on how to drive a NTX2
[12:05] <Darkside> theres a few different ways that all work well
[12:05] <schofieldau> tethering on my roaming phone probably paying about $5/mb :/
[12:05] <jdtanner> Yep, but not from 3.3v arduino mini...the calculation is left as an exercise for the reader :P
[12:05] <schofieldau> Darkside:I thought that was for 5v arduinos
[12:05] <fsphil> schofieldau, ooch
[12:05] <Darkside> jdtanner: uhh
[12:05] <Darkside> no
[12:05] <Darkside> 47K and 39K works for 3.3v
[12:06] <jdtanner> Yep...I realise that now...now that the final voltage values drop below 3v...as I say...it was a learning process :)
[12:07] <schofieldau> heh
[12:08] <jdtanner> I wanted to be able to pick a freq shift, then calculate the required resistor values. Am I correct in saying that 47 and 39 work, but the frequency shift will be different depending on if you have a 5v or a 3.3v arduino...or is the difference all that matters?
[12:08] <Darkside> well the difference determines your shift
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[12:09] <Darkside> the absolute voltage determines how far from the specified frequency
[12:09] <schofieldau> anyway I'm off
[12:09] <jdtanner> Adios :)
[12:09] <Darkside> cya
[12:10] <jdtanner> right...more reading to do then.
[12:10] <fsphil> high baud rates also seem to narrow the shift somewhat
[12:12] <jdtanner> Incidentally, is there any reason why 47 and 39 are chosen over the many other resisitor values which satisfy the required volatge shift?
[12:12] <Darkside> not really
[12:13] <Darkside> it does keep the bias point roughly in the centre though
[12:13] <Darkside> i think it works better there
[12:13] <Darkside> also you know this is with one resistor connected to one GPIO, and the other connected to another GPIO right?
[12:13] <Darkside> so you set one GPIO high, and the other low
[12:13] <Darkside> then switch the GPIOs to change to the other tone
[12:14] <jdtanner> yeah
[12:14] <Darkside> so you go from 1.8V to 1.49v
[12:14] <jdtanner> thanks...interesting little problem
[12:15] <Darkside> instead of 0v to 0.3
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[13:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Monday (16th) Launch - 11am"
[13:33] <cuddykid> now need to hunt down RocketBoy
[13:33] <cuddykid> if anyone sees him point him my way please :)
[13:34] <Randomskk> cuddykid: same sentence format as before? I'll set up a new flight doc for you
[13:34] <cuddykid> thanks Randomskk! Almost the same, just the following adjustments:
[13:35] <Randomskk> oh actually
[13:35] <Randomskk> I think we discussed this earlier about how there isn't a HABE document at the moment
[13:35] <cuddykid> first 7 fields the same (up to altitude) then 8th field is sats (that's it then)
[13:35] <Randomskk> only HABE2
[13:35] <cuddykid> yeah, it'll be a modified HABE2
[13:35] <Randomskk> ok
[13:35] <cuddykid> basically fields are:
[13:36] <cuddykid> count, hour, minute, second, lat, lon, alt, sats
[13:36] <Randomskk> name for the flight itself?
[13:36] <cuddykid> on 434.2
[13:36] <cuddykid> just HABE please :) unless that causes a problem
[13:36] <cuddykid> then HABE3
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[13:36] <cuddykid> bb in 5
[13:37] <Randomskk> can you confirm the shift and serial data?
[13:38] <Randomskk> and checksum algorithm
[13:38] <Randomskk> and callsign in telemetry
[13:38] <Randomskk> also the current document doesn't have seven fields up to altitude
[13:38] <Randomskk> it has, in order, sentence_id, time, latitude, longitude, altitude, temperature_internal, temperature_external, voltage_solar_1, voltage_solar_2
[13:41] <cuddykid> give me 2 mins Randomskk
[13:41] <cuddykid> callsign = $HABE
[13:41] <cuddykid> checksum = XOR
[13:42] <cuddykid> ahh, ok, time counts for hour, min, sec
[13:42] <cuddykid> so it'll be:
[13:42] <cuddykid> sentence_id, time, latitude, longitude, altitude, satellites
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[13:43] <Randomskk> cool, ok
[13:43] <Randomskk> shift/encoding/parity/stops?
[13:43] <cuddykid> Randomskk: shift = 425
[13:43] <cuddykid> 8bits
[13:44] <cuddykid> no parity, 1 stop bit (seems to do the trick)
[13:44] <cuddykid> rtty 50baud
[13:44] <Randomskk> ok done
[13:44] <cuddykid> thanks!
[13:44] <Randomskk> should be on testing dl-fldigis now, current dl-fldigis within 5 minutes, the calendar now, the calendar inside google calendar within seven hours
[13:44] <cuddykid> awesome - great stuff :D
[13:45] <Darkside> Randomskk: and the no-posotion stuff on spacenear.us?
[13:45] <Darkside> :P
[13:45] <Darkside> (not massively urgent)
[13:46] <Randomskk> not my watch
[13:46] <Darkside> aww
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[13:53] <cuddykid> helium ordered :)
[13:53] <Randomskk> cool
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[13:53] <navrac_> is this th c4 launch then?
[13:53] <daveake> no need it'll be cold anyway when it comes out
[13:54] <daveake> :p
[13:54] <Randomskk> not bad but not your best effort daveake :P
[13:54] <daveake> must try harder :)
[13:54] <Randomskk> :P
[13:54] <navrac_> a drop in the usual standard
[13:55] <daveake> oh, that bad :(
[13:55] <daveake> Well, it's always good to get feedback to help me maintain my usual standard
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[13:59] <daveake> cuddykid is this the C4 job?
[13:59] <daveake> I'll take "can't say" as "Yes"
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[14:00] <Randomskk> Darkside: I think it's with someone else?
[14:00] <Randomskk> uh
[14:00] <Randomskk> daveake:
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[14:09] <daveake> The RSGB books for foundation and intermediate arrived earlier. Bedtime reading for a couple of nights at least :)
[14:11] <mfa298> I thought the usual first Bedtime reading was to look at the sample papers online and decide it's so easy you don't need to get the book (at least for foundation)
[14:12] <daveake> Yeah I did look at some samlpe foundation questions and thought they were just silly-easy
[14:12] <mfa298> mostly they are common sense or licensing.
[14:13] <gonzo_> I sdon't think it's possibel to fail a foundation licence test
[14:13] <UpuWork> VK5QI is awesome :)
[14:13] <Darkside> i am
[14:13] <UpuWork> something lost in translation there
[14:14] <Darkside> :P
[14:14] <mfa298> I think intermediate gets harder, and Advanced requires some thought.
[14:14] <mfa298> The hardest bit on the foundation is understanding some of their odd phrasing of questions.
[14:15] <UpuWork> "what is your name"
[14:15] <UpuWork> "can you twiddle the knob on a radio"
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[14:16] <mfa298> except the question would probably be "The knobs on your radio, can you twiddle them?"
[14:16] <UpuWork> trick question which knob
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[14:17] <SamSilver> "should you always not use an earth spike?"
[14:18] <mfa298> a) Sometimes, b) never, c) if there's thunder, d) if there's thunder and lightning
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[14:19] <fsphil> "What voltage would you see between your antenna and ground during a lightning storm?"
[14:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[14:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> any news on Pico, not hearing anything here?
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[14:22] <fsphil> nothing since it was least heard from holland
[14:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok
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[14:25] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: big launch coming up - next HABE flight - Monday ~11am& trackers really appreciated #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/190445567359459328]
[14:31] <JM_> If I'm around will try and join trackers - where is launch location and what freq?
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[15:10] <cuddykid> JM_: worcester and 434.2mhz cheers :)
[15:12] <JM_> Excellent - could be heading my way then (Bicester)
[15:12] <cuddykid> brilliant
[15:15] <JM_> is 434.2 APRS?
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[15:20] <cuddykid> JM_: no, rtty 50 baud - select "HABE" in fldigi :)
[15:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu are you there?
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[15:23] <JM_> OK thanks. I'm still a bit new to this. Managed to track & upload first balloons just a couple of weeks ago. I am G1WMK if I manage to track HABE
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[15:25] <gonzo_> you will be supprised how well 10mW of 434meg goes when at altitude
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[15:51] <UpuWork> hi Brian I'm here
[15:51] <UpuWork> ping OZ1SKY_Brian
[15:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[15:52] <UpuWork> afternoon
[15:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> was wondering about this:
[15:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hopefully the payload will last for about 24hrs, between the hours of
[15:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 0700UTC and 1800UTC it'll transmit RTTY 50 baud, 450shift, no parity,
[15:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 2 stop continuously.
[15:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> was that only yesterday or does it apply also today, you know?
[15:53] <UpuWork> I think the batteries might be dead now
[15:53] <UpuWork> but I assume it would carry on as it was programmed until the batteries died
[15:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes i would think so too, was just wondering if it should be in rtty now IF it was alive
[15:55] <UpuWork> for 5 mins yes
[15:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> for 5min?
[15:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh no what i mean is if has a clock, its between 7 and 18 utc now
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[15:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> if it only transmit hell every 5min and a 0.5s beep every 10sec, its close to impossible to find if its weak and have freq drifted
[16:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> dinner time, back later
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[16:10] <cuddykid> just to check is 8dBm 10mW?
[16:11] <cuddykid> or is 8dBm the right setting for rfm?
[16:11] <jonsowman> no
[16:11] <jonsowman> 8dBm is about 6.3mW
[16:12] <jonsowman> 10dBm = 10mW
[16:12] <cuddykid> ahh I see, thanks for the heads up!
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[16:55] <navrac_> 11dbm is the closest with the rfm - you are bound to loose a little from matching
[16:55] <navrac_> only 30 mins late on that conversation
[16:57] <navrac_> going back an hours conversation jcoxons code uses the gps time and so it doesn't matter what the date is.
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[17:47] <cuddykid> tracking payload constructed - time to walk it :P
[17:50] <cuddykid> finally got lock
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[17:51] <cuddykid> not sure why the altitude is 0
[17:52] <cuddykid> anyone know why the alt is 0?
[17:53] <Randomskk> what's saying 0?
[17:53] <Randomskk> your gps?
[17:53] <Randomskk> it might not have a 3D lock yet
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Have you fallen down a well?
[17:54] <nigelvh> A well with a GPS signal repeater
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[18:00] Nick change: earthshine_ -> earthshine
[18:12] <cuddykid> waheyy, finally got altitude :P
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[18:15] <fsphil-laptop> altitude is important here :)
[18:17] <nigelvh> Unless the name of the channel is #noaltitude
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[18:17] <fsphil-laptop> #sealevel
[18:18] <fsphil-laptop> (which does exist)
[18:18] <fsphil-laptop> ok, who had the beans for dinner: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17697328
[18:18] Nick change: AndroUser2 -> daveake_mob
[18:19] <nigelvh> I like the quote from the person who's house shook, and they thought a brick came through the window.
[18:19] <nigelvh> I wasn't aware that normally shook the house.
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[18:19] <Bob_G8NSV> yeah just read that
[18:20] <nigelvh> Perhaps it's a very small house.
[18:20] <Bob_G8NSV> perhaps its the remains of the koreans rocket!
[18:20] <nigelvh> That would be quite a bit "off course"
[18:24] <Bob_G8NSV> Im think Fylingdales may have spotted it!
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[18:30] <Morseman> A couple of Amateur Radio guys on Twitter mentioned it but couldn't find any news of what caused the big bang in Coventry
[18:31] <Morseman> Which berk asked Birmingham airport if it was a sonic boom? Concords been grounded for years now
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[18:36] <cuddykid> WMP_Helicopter: 18:15 Lots of reports of loud bangs and the Earth shaking around Coventry & Warwickshire. At present no reports of what has caused it ??
[18:36] <cuddykid> lol
[18:37] <cuddykid> whose parachute has failed..
[18:38] <cuddykid> this, doesn't really make sense?! -> Hearing reports that the boom was a sonic boom from 2 Typhoon aircraft sent out in response to a helicopter sending out an emergency signal.
[18:39] <cuddykid> the payload (despite remaining stationary) has dropped 18m in altitude over the past 30mins
[18:39] <cuddykid> incredible
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[18:44] <nigelvh> Yep
[18:45] <nigelvh> Atmospheric conditions will mess with GPS signals slightly. Different positioning of the satellites, different satellites with slightly different clocks, plus the normal error range on a 3D lock. I'm not suprised.
[18:45] <Nickle> It's quite interesting tracking the position of your house over a period of time and seeing how far it moves! :-)
[18:47] <nigelvh> Yeah, if I want some reasonable accuracy without going to the effort of DGPS or something, I'll set my thunderbolt to do a 10,000 sample position survey and average them together.
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[18:49] <nigelvh> Also, it doesn't matter so much in those integrated environments, but when you've got a number of meters of cable between the reciever and antenna, the timing involved there can affect the values as well.
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[18:56] <fsphil-laptop> or a bad connector
[18:57] <fsphil-laptop> as some scientists recently discovered
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[18:59] <Elmar_PD3EM_> Good evening!
[18:59] <fsphil-laptop> hullo!
[19:00] <Elmar_PD3EM_> gonna be busy with launches this weekend...
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[19:40] <fsphil> hope so!
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[19:46] <MrCraig> so did anyone ever figure out how to insure a flight? Did the formalisation thing ever grow any legs?
[19:46] <MrCraig> hi all btw :)
[19:49] <jcoxon> eveninig all
[19:49] <jcoxon> MrCraig, nope - no progress
[19:49] <Upu> you can't get insured
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[19:50] <MrCraig> is it classed as public liability?
[19:50] <Upu> its classed under insurers don't want to know
[19:50] <Upu> but yes
[19:50] <MrCraig> lol I get that bit Upu
[19:50] <jcoxon> MrCraig, some uni's cover it that way
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[19:51] <Upu> did someone mention the loud bang earlier ? : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17697328
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[19:51] <MrCraig> jcoxon: I don't ever want to find out if the uni's are actually covered if things went bad - I suspect the insurer might still back out sharpish
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[19:51] <MrCraig> Hey RocketBoy
[19:51] <Upu> evening Steve
[19:52] Nick change: Elwell -> evilElwell
[19:52] <MrCraig> Have any latex stocks RocketBoy?
[19:52] <olivier58> 73 all
[19:53] <olivier58> i back return 30 minutes
[19:53] <MrCraig> hey Oliver
[19:53] <MrCraig> olivier58*
[19:53] <olivier58> ;)
[19:53] <Upu> ping cuddykid
[19:53] <MrCraig> mod responding to emergency in the west midlands, hmm, brummies at it again?
[19:56] <daveake_mob> Was the loud bang cuddykid practicing with H2?
[19:56] <nigelvh> Maybe....
[19:56] <Upu> :)
[19:56] <fsphil> so apparently dropping cameras out the upstairs window makes them work less good. who knew
[19:56] <nigelvh> Maybe he got together with lunar and his 4500g balloon
[19:57] <nigelvh> Who knew indeed.
[19:57] <Upu> I think Lunar is trying to launch himself
[19:57] <daveake_mob> It's one way of getting an altitude record
[19:57] <nigelvh> Aren't we all upu?
[19:57] <Upu> true
[19:57] <Bob_G8NSV> I work in the ATC environment and Ive never heard of interceptors being sent to answer a distress call. Plus all supersonic overflights of mainland UK are banned. Something is very odd with that. Next they will be saying it was a weather balloon ;) ;)
[19:57] <MrCraig> fsphil - reverse the polarity - go stand outstairs and throw it back up in through the window and see if that fixes it.
[19:57] <Upu> Bob
[19:57] <MrCraig> outstairs? == outside* I'm clearly tired.
[19:58] <Bob_G8NSV> hi upu
[19:58] <Upu> did I get your address for a QSL card ?
[19:58] <nigelvh> No, I like the outstairs version
[19:58] <fsphil> try and trick time itself
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[19:58] <Upu> oh I did
[19:58] <Upu> ignore me
[19:58] <nigelvh> Just like tricking gravity by forgetting about it.
[19:58] <Upu> should be with you
[19:58] <daveake_mob> Upu cards arrived today tvm
[19:58] <Upu> no probs daveake_mob
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[19:59] <Bob_G8NSV> not sure? i am on eqsl and qrz.com if you want to use that andd save postage
[19:59] <Upu> I posted one to the address on QRZ.Com
[19:59] <Bob_G8NSV> or I can let you have the address
[19:59] <Upu> no wait
[19:59] <Upu> I didn't because no house number
[19:59] <Bob_G8NSV> thanks!! will check my inbox
[20:00] <Upu> just PM me the house number
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> or just write in "the house with the aerials"
[20:00] <Bob_G8NSV> lol
[20:00] <nigelvh> Look for the tower
[20:00] <MrCraig> lol
[20:00] <Upu> aye could probably find it
[20:01] <Bob_G8NSV> sadly just wire antennas no tower, I wish
[20:01] <nigelvh> A few weeks ago I help my friend take down a tower. Those things are squiggly at the top
[20:01] <nigelvh> helped*
[20:02] <Bob_G8NSV> very wobbly, wind up tilt ones are best!
[20:02] <pjm> Bob_G8NSV u are not to far from me, i'm in wimborne, ang gonzo_ is in parkstone
[20:02] <nigelvh> I figure so.
[20:02] <nigelvh> This was a stationary one in sections
[20:02] <Bob_G8NSV> hi, seen you on the tracker map
[20:03] <Bob_G8NSV> they are good but not easy to change antennas
[20:03] <nigelvh> Yeah. The antenna was the hardest to get down. The sections came down pretty easily.
[20:04] <nigelvh> Granted it was a massive tribander HF beam
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[20:05] <Bob_G8NSV> put a 60ft self radiating mast up a few years back for an NDB. Used a gin pole to pull up the sections and bolt them. Worrying bit was the tower was mounted on big porcelain insulators :(
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[20:06] <Bob_G8NSV> new undies required!
[20:06] <Bob_G8NSV> when at the top you cant stop thinking about what happens when you drop a teacup!!
[20:06] <fsphil> and I though I was being adventurous putting up a 5m tall vertical :)
[20:07] <Bob_G8NSV> we would never be allowed to climb it now, would have to use a cherry picker and a crane!
[20:07] <Bob_G8NSV> Elfin safety!
[20:08] <nigelvh> Yeah, this was a 48ft free standing tower.
[20:09] <Bob_G8NSV> nice, going back up?
[20:09] <nigelvh> Though, bolted to concrete at the bottom rather than porcelain insulators.
[20:09] <Bob_G8NSV> concrete is good:)
[20:09] <Bob_G8NSV> porcelain not
[20:09] <nigelvh> Eventually. The house was being sold and it had to come down. Now it needs to have some rust scraped off and repainted, and whatnot before we set it up again.
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[20:10] <Bob_G8NSV> dont fancy digging the hole for the base!
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[20:11] <Bob_G8NSV> mini digger :)
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[20:11] <nigelvh> Yeah, I figure they'll do that with a machine of some sort.
[20:11] <Bob_G8NSV> fortunately we have chaps at work to do that. They have a big JCB
[20:12] <cuddykid> hi Upu
[20:12] <Bob_G8NSV> last tower I put up was for our direction finder I installed and commissioned
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[20:12] Action: Upu points @ RocketBoy
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[20:13] <cuddykid> just placing an order now RocketBoy :)
[20:13] <Bob_G8NSV> next will be for new airband transmitters. when they decide exactly where its going and dont change their minds before we put it up
[20:13] <RocketBoy> cool
[20:13] Action: Upu stands down :)
[20:13] <cuddykid> I think 1st class should be fine (fingers crossed)
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[20:13] <cuddykid> RocketBoy: would you be posting tomorrow morning?
[20:14] <Bob_G8NSV> thats a 60 footer as I recall
[20:14] <RocketBoy> ok np
[20:14] <RocketBoy> yep (well mrs rocktboy will)
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[20:15] <cuddykid> brilliant
[20:15] <Bob_G8NSV> sadly I cant use the antenna I used at work a few weeks ago again this weekend, we finally commissioned the new repeaters last week
[20:15] <nigelvh> Damn
[20:16] <Bob_G8NSV> which is a shame it worked brilliantly
[20:16] <nigelvh> I finally got my antenna back from being used on one of our repeaters and it came back broken
[20:16] <Bob_G8NSV> what was it?
[20:16] <nigelvh> It was a 2m/220mhz/70cm colinear vertical
[20:17] <nigelvh> We only needed 70cm, but it was about the only thing we had on hand.
[20:17] <pjm> Bob_G8NSV is that primary radar at hurn now out of use? it was stopped the last few times I drove past
[20:17] <Bob_G8NSV> might have an old uhf colinear knocking about at work
[20:18] <number10> dont know if you saw link this morning RocketBoy, your picture with Nova team 2006 was in Electronics Weekly last week http://i.imgur.com/SjiB9.jpg
[20:18] <Bob_G8NSV> yes the old ar15 is no more sadly. new co-located primary/secondry on north side of airfield now
[20:18] <fsphil> Ah, the bang was a sonic boom
[20:18] <nigelvh> We've got a replacement now for the repeater, and for mine I just need to get a few capacitors to fix mine I think.
[20:18] <fsphil> from a Typhoon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17697328
[20:19] <fsphil> well, that's the cover story
[20:19] <RocketBoy> number10: oh yeah thats me
[20:19] <Randomskk> wow, vintage CUSF
[20:19] <Bob_G8NSV> will have an old stacked dipole array going I think but not sure what state the phasing harnesses will be it's been up for years
[20:20] <RocketBoy> should be on the one show tomorrow night
[20:20] <fsphil> ooh
[20:20] <fsphil> I was just asking about that a few days ago
[20:20] <Bob_G8NSV> will see what we have thats for the scrapheap that has some life left in it
[20:21] <cuddykid> RocketBoy: ordered :) and.. pm :)
[20:21] <Bob_G8NSV> sonic boom yes but dont buy the cover story
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[20:23] <Bob_G8NSV> would buy a civil aircraft with no radio contact and no transponder. That would have a Typhoon with a missile lock on it pretty quick#
[20:23] <kokey> it's the sound of them destroying the perpetual motion machine they recovered from the crashed alien space craft or else it will destroy the wealth of the corporate conspiracy that controls the government and media
[20:23] <Bob_G8NSV> especially heading for a London!
[20:24] <Bob_G8NSV> Told you, it will be a weather balloon by tomorrow!!
[20:25] Action: kokey continues to build gnuradio
[20:25] <MrCraig> lol weather balloon cover-up stories would be sooooo easy to verify in the UK, one of us could just call Steve and ask how many he sold recently.
[20:25] <kokey> MrCraig: haha
[20:27] <kokey> it's been a while since I've compiled anything
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[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:33] <Bob_G8NSV> hi ll
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[20:36] <nigelvh> Yo
[20:38] <Bob_G8NSV> hope to get my payload project underway next week, got nearly all the bits here now. have to get a new breadboard, got at least 2 and cant find any of them
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[20:38] <Bob_G8NSV> dont want to hardwire it all together till its all tested
[20:38] <nigelvh> A reasonable thought.
[20:39] <Bob_G8NSV> so hopefully no messy changes to wiring
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[20:40] <Laurenceb_> http://michelebavaro.blogspot.com/2012/04/spring-news-in-gnss-and-sdr-domain.html
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[20:42] <Bob_G8NSV> this may be of interest to someone http://rev0proto.com/wiki/index.php/Quadrifilar_Helix
[20:43] <Bob_G8NSV> they built this for sending aprs from a balloon, but would work just as well for telemetry from an rfm22 or such
[20:43] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb_: yup
[20:43] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb_: :D
[20:43] <kristianpaul> Just of of country now, but my rtl-sdr hardwware already arrived !
[20:43] <kristianpaul> willing to make it work with osgps or softgnss
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> nice
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> ive only got gps working with Kai Borres matlab code
[20:45] <Bob_G8NSV> there is a link to a calculator to tweak the dimensions to 434
[20:46] <kristianpaul> s/of/out
[20:49] <kokey> weird I can't find gnuradio companion
[20:49] <kokey> and I'm sure it compiled it
[20:51] <Morseman> Bob_G8NSV Interesting plot. Looks like 434MHz might be in the slightly inductive reactance area? Could be tuned out with a small capacitor if so
[20:52] <Bob_G8NSV> there is a calculator on the jcoppins site to give the correct dimensions for 434 mhz, they say thats the one they used
[20:52] <Bob_G8NSV> its a javascript qfh design tool
[20:53] <Bob_G8NSV> takes tube diameter etc and gives you the bending dimensions
[20:53] <nigelvh> I made a 137MHz quadrifilar for my weather satellite receiver.
[20:54] <nigelvh> Wasn't too hard.
[20:54] <Morseman> Looking for that but not found it yet - wood for trees I think
[20:54] <Bob_G8NSV> loads of designs for 137mhz and amsat downlink recieving ones
[20:54] <Bob_G8NSV> but should be great for 434 telemetry tx surely!
[20:55] <Morseman> A guy up the road had one for 137MHz but he left a while back
[20:55] <nigelvh> Or perhaps a crossed moxon.
[20:55] <Bob_G8NSV> very good omni pattern so should cut down on fade as the payload spins and swings around
[20:55] <Morseman> Found the calculator link!
[20:55] <Bob_G8NSV> it looks really useful
[20:56] <Morseman> Moxon might be a bit big
[20:56] <Bob_G8NSV> that calculator seems to do the business very comprehensive
[20:56] <nigelvh> At 434? Not really. We've done it for ATV on balloons.
[20:56] <Morseman> Rats - wretched Adobe update wants to restart the PC again!
[20:56] <gonzo_> txing circular will half the snr for most groundsataions, but may well reduce fade
[20:56] <Morseman> BRB
[20:57] <gonzo_> but encouraging ground sataions to use circular will help reduce fading, even if the tx is minear
[20:57] <Bob_G8NSV> gonzo the loss may well be offset by the reduction in fade and the lack of lobes and "holes" in the antenna coverage
[20:57] <Bob_G8NSV> but yes there is a loss
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[20:58] <Bob_G8NSV> CP is used on radars during heavy rain and bad weather
[20:59] <Bob_G8NSV> reduces atmospheric attenuation, they have used it for years on space-ground comms with low power spacecraft signals
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> what does the abbreviation mean?
[21:00] <gonzo_> going cp for tx and rx would be the hly-grail
[21:00] <Bob_G8NSV> cp circular poalrisation
[21:00] <gonzo_> cp=circular polarisation
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:00] <Bob_G8NSV> as long as both are the same or massive loss!!!
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> instead of linear
[21:01] <gonzo_> getting them the same is simple enough
[21:01] <gonzo_> (unless phasing yagi's!)
[21:01] <Bob_G8NSV> it helps reduce fading and attenuation due to rain and stuff like that
[21:02] <Bob_G8NSV> at 434 a helix is probably far simpler than crossed yagis and phasing harnesses
[21:02] <gonzo_> most popular for space comms, where rotational fading would be a prob with linear pol
[21:02] <gonzo_> yep, I do like the helix
[21:02] <Upu> http://www.i1wqrlinkradio.com/antype/ch30/chiave1000.htm
[21:03] <gonzo_> also a very wide band design, so has most chance of being reporduceable
[21:03] <Bob_G8NSV> yep thats the chappie
[21:05] <gonzo_> I have a 435meg one that I did use on satellite, but swapped back to a yagi, as the sat I was using was using both RHC and LHC
[21:05] <Bob_G8NSV> 2.8 m long, not very portable but 15.5dB gain and 1Kw power handling!!
[21:05] <gonzo_> but it worked very well when it was on the mast
[21:06] <Upu> Almost the same as my Tonna
[21:06] <Bob_G8NSV> yes amsat dont standardise on one rotation different satts different polarisation, stupid!!
[21:06] <gonzo_> I expect, you don't mormally need gain when portable for HAB
[21:06] <Bob_G8NSV> no only at home qth
[21:07] <gonzo_> this was for oscar 51, it txed analogue on rhc and lhc on digital
[21:07] <Bob_G8NSV> mind you half the length should not be much less gain, normally 3dB for twice the elements
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[21:08] <Bob_G8NSV> there seems to be no standard tho very odd
[21:09] <gonzo_> it allowed them to phase two tx's into a single pair of antennas. quite clever
[21:10] <Bob_G8NSV> from what I saw not all 70cm analog are the same rotation between different sats
[21:10] <Bob_G8NSV> means you need 2 antennas or the dreaded crossed yagis and switched phasing
[21:10] <Bob_G8NSV> messy
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[21:12] <gonzo_> I have phased my 2mtr yagi for l/rhc and works really well, but the 70cm just didn't work cp. Really needs redoing with more care
[21:14] <Bob_G8NSV> shorter wavelengths will be more susceptible to errors in the phasing harnesses
[21:14] <Bob_G8NSV> both cutting and differences in velocity factor
[21:16] <Bob_G8NSV> phasing glidepath cables is trickier than localisers, glidepaths on 3 times the frequency so a tiny bit off the cable can shift by a few degrees
[21:17] <Bob_G8NSV> I have an old vector voltmeter but it's broken and not sure if it can be mended easily. That is just the ticket for making phasing harnesses
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[21:18] <gonzo_> on 70 I offset the feeds on the yagis, to try and fix the l/4 in hardware and also to get the feed mechanics separated. Then just switch in a 180deg shift to one leg. But it is not quite there yet
[21:19] <Bob_G8NSV> the vector voltmeter would be worth fixing for that sort of job. It would tell you exactly what the shift in your cables was
[21:20] <Bob_G8NSV> it works up to 1ghz i think
[21:20] <Bob_G8NSV> certainly works at 5-600
[21:20] <Bob_G8NSV> I say works should be worked!
[21:22] <Bob_G8NSV> it would measure the exact shift in your relays etc, and allow the cables to be trimmed to within a degree or 2
[21:22] <gonzo_> the long cables from the feeds to the phasing are all integral to the anyenna, so suspect that is the main error. so expect I will need to do some trial and error cutting to get a good cp on a fixed splitter
[21:22] <gonzo_> then can start looking at the phasing rel;ays
[21:23] <Bob_G8NSV> maybe I shoul;d try and fix my vector voltmeter!
[21:23] <gonzo_> all test kit is worth fixing
[21:23] <gonzo_> what vintage is it?
[21:24] <Bob_G8NSV> never had a use for it so never bothered. the meter markings are screwed and have become illegible, and I think there is an electronic fault but not sure about that. Its a hewlet packard
[21:24] <Bob_G8NSV> got a manual for it somewhere i think
[21:26] <Bob_G8NSV> they didnt use it for years and when they wanted to send it for cal the varnish had peeled off the meter cards and jammed the needles plus all the letraset numbers had falled off. the quote for new meters was horrendously more than it was worth so they chucked it out and i caught it before it hit the skip!
[21:28] <Bob_G8NSV> as I recall it has new probes and they are one of the bits thast fails on them
[21:28] <Bob_G8NSV> I really should try and mend it
[21:29] <Bob_G8NSV> with a drawing package and a laser printer it should be possible to make some new meter cards
[21:29] <Bob_G8NSV> better than letraset!
[21:30] <gonzo_> we have a rather nice hp vetcor analyser at the club, but I'd have to set up an antenna test range to get an overall phase measurement of the ant phasing
[21:34] <Bob_G8NSV> just dragged it out the garage its an hp 8405a 1mhz to 1ghz
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> nice
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> try some nutty antenna designs :P
[21:37] <Bob_G8NSV> it powers up ok but the meters jam and they are totally illegible. the varnish on the meter cards has peeled off and jams the needles. i have a funny feeling thats all thats wrong
[21:38] <gonzo_> lots of pics to crib the meter scales from
[21:38] <Bob_G8NSV> have you found some?
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> eeek
[21:39] <gonzo_> just google images
[21:39] <Bob_G8NSV> they were not in the manual
[21:39] <Bob_G8NSV> it should be easy to reproduce the scales from photos
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> so its analogue?
[21:40] <gonzo_> http://www.outbackequipment.com/39682/imported-from-ebay-hp-8405a.html
[21:41] <gonzo_> just found in a quick search
[21:41] <Bob_G8NSV> its years since i looked at it. with no signal as you alter the controls the meter tries to swing left to right and the offset switch changes the phas eso it may well be fixable. yes laurence an old analog one. the new digital ones are great
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> you can use a smith chart in the way it was intended then :D
[21:42] <Bob_G8NSV> thought, replace meters with arduino and lcds!!!
[21:42] <gonzo_> better, clean them out and print new scales
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[21:43] <Bob_G8NSV> yes thats what ill do, theres a very good chance of being able to get it accurate then
[21:45] <Bob_G8NSV> ahaa found a lovely shot of the meters
[21:45] <Bob_G8NSV> if i could find a better one i could just scale the image in photoshop and print one off on a laser
[21:47] <Morseman> Circular brings its own problems - LHS or RHS ?
[21:47] <Morseman> Meters?
[21:47] <gonzo_> just spec rhc and go with that
[21:47] <Morseman> LHC or RHC - even
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> Large Hadron Collider?
[21:48] <Morseman> That's OK as long as it's up high enough of course
[21:48] <gonzo_> once there is a reproduceable qfh desigh with a useable pattern, then people will just trot that out
[21:49] <gonzo_> for rx sites, use a helix
[21:49] <Bob_G8NSV> agreed they should be easy to re-produce, simple enough antenns
[21:49] <Morseman> Lunar_Landar Left Hand Circular or Right Hand Circular polarisation - think of a left or right handed cork screw...
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> I just wanted to make a joke
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:50] <Morseman> What happens at lower height when the payload is swinging about though?
[21:51] <Morseman> Sorry Lunar_Lander not always sure when you are joking or serious.
[21:51] <gonzo_> a qfh should be circular in tx at all angles (ish)
[21:51] <Morseman> .... ISH
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> oh sorry
[21:52] <gonzo_> the rx ant will be pointed
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> but on a serious note, I got one of these new 808 video cameras
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> the keychain cameras
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> I plan to try it out on the balloon
[21:52] <gonzo_> the ish, is that it can get messy if you are behind the qfh
[21:52] <gonzo_> but that should not really happen unless it's really being lashed about
[21:53] <gonzo_> have a url for the 808 cam?
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> it's on ebay
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> please hold on
[21:53] <Morseman> OK Lunar_Lander will google
[21:53] <gonzo_> I'm holding on, now what do I do with it
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eletoponline365/16-Cameras-/_i.html?_fsub=4516628015&_sid=934409915&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> there is the seller I got it from
[21:54] <Morseman> 'lashed about' seems to happen with balloons sometimes?
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> that is also the company that makes it
[21:55] <gonzo_> well lashing about that a 1/4wave gp would be in trouble too
[21:56] <gonzo_> just making sure Lunar_Lander. I have similar here. Was destined for a rocket cam
[21:56] <Bob_G8NSV> the theory with them is the polarisation is fairly constand from all angles. certainly far more so than a horizontal or vertical antenna would give you
[21:56] <gonzo_> have to see if it's 720line tough
[21:57] <Bob_G8NSV> so in theory you would have far less fading and far fewer dropped packets
[21:57] <gonzo_> there are a few in similat cases
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> gonzo_, that is true, there are like 16 different models
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> only model #3, #11 and #16 are good
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> #3 is SD, the others are HD
[21:58] <gonzo_> mine was £7 so prob not hd!
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> that could be
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> see the sidebar in the shop?
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> check out the #3 link
[21:59] <Morseman> gonzo_ lashing about seems to be balloon fact of life. One I would have thought about before I logged on here to be honest. ;-)
[22:00] <Bob_G8NSV> found enogh photos to reproduce the meter cards
[22:01] <Morseman> We know lashing about a 1/4 wave is trouble, just dependant of build quality/luck (will the TX survive) and RX luck (do we get enough signal to decode in all the fading)?
[22:03] <Bob_G8NSV> if we can come up with a light re-produceable qfh to fly that would be good
[22:04] <Morseman> The trouble, as I see it, with satelite antennas is that although they are high they are usually fairly stable (unless the launch was poor)
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[22:04] <Bob_G8NSV> that artical was pretty close to whats needed a bit more detail and use parts that everyone can obtain easy in the uk
[22:04] <Morseman> So, they are fairly predictable in their spin/period
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[22:05] <Bob_G8NSV> they are supposed to have a radiation pattern pretty much like a sphere, with sircular polarisation in all directions
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[22:05] <Morseman> PIII+ at least spun in a reliable way...
[22:06] <Bob_G8NSV> fingers not working well tonight loads of typos!!
[22:06] <Morseman> It diddn't keep flying up, holding and then falling back to earth whilst you tried to track it...
[22:07] <Bob_G8NSV> I have looked for a NEC model for one but cant find one
[22:08] <gonzo_> you can twean the actual patttern of a qfh, by making more turns and the ratio's
[22:08] <Bob_G8NSV> the theory says they should be ideal on a balloon that is swaying around wildly
[22:08] <gonzo_> so it's horses for courses
[22:08] <Morseman> OK I'll have a go at a qfh just to see how it performs
[22:11] <Morseman> Need to sort out a suitable balun as well
[22:12] <gonzo_> my 808 cam reports 720x480
[22:12] <Bob_G8NSV> you would want more power going down than up so the pattern could be tweaked for that, a nec model would be useful
[22:12] <gonzo_> bit rough, but cheap enough to lose into the sea
[22:13] <Bob_G8NSV> a bit like a goldfish bowl shape a sphere with a bit of a flat on the top
[22:15] <Morseman> gonzo_ I think from UK you have to assume likely to end up in the sea unless an "up and down" launch...
[22:16] <gonzo_> yep, unless it's a controled cutdown
[22:16] <Bob_G8NSV> or you make it across the pond to france or holland!
[22:16] <gonzo_> from down here it's a 50/50 chance however you look at it
[22:18] <Morseman> From Bolsover with prevailing wind I'll guess either English Channel or hope someone in Holand or Northern France will find it...
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[22:19] <gonzo_> well we are looking at a foil launch in a few weeks time.
[22:19] <gonzo_> but being only subject to lower level winds, could be anywhere
[22:20] <Morseman> That's why I think my Ublox?Arduino is likely to be in the drink...
[22:21] <Morseman> So I need to leave enough months that it wont sting the pocket quite as badly
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[22:23] <Bob_G8NSV> phew! just took a call out call from work. fortunately talked the controller through what button to press so I didnt have to go into work. I love remote control fingers ;)
[22:24] <Bob_G8NSV> My solars are not expected to get above the cocom height limit so i have got hold of some tiny nmea output gps units very cheap
[22:24] <gonzo_> no call out fee?
[22:25] <Bob_G8NSV> not nowadays just time off in liue, rather stay at home if poss, used to get 3 hours overtime!
[22:28] <gonzo_> the upu units are so cheap in reality, with ant onboard. I went with them
[22:28] <Morseman> Bob_G8NSV Never had that when I was on standby - VHF AM transmitters and simple pagers no computers so ended up going out no matter what...
[22:28] <gonzo_> though have to confirm that the config into flight mode is working
[22:28] <Morseman> cocom height?
[22:29] <gonzo_> there is a limit of someting like 18km alt AND 500km/hr
[22:29] <Bob_G8NSV> fortunately just a push of the manual on button was needed, great when you can talk an atco through it!!!
[22:29] <gonzo_> to stop them being used for naughtyness
[22:30] <Morseman> We got 'time off in lieu so prefered a no call out bank holiday even if not able to leave home
[22:30] <gonzo_> but some mfrs use 18km OR 500kph
[22:30] <Morseman> even now - bank holidays are to be spent away from the roads!
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[22:31] <Bob_G8NSV> just on one of our nasty 7 day shifts, finish on sunday afternoon. then got 3 days off but tagged a couple of liue days on to take me up to the weekend so 7 off in a row yippee!
[22:32] <gonzo_> our place try and get the desk wallah's to go out on installs. But what they offer, my weekends are more valuable
[22:32] <Bob_G8NSV> bank holidays and roads definately a bad combination
[22:32] <gonzo_> ate you NATS bob?
[22:33] <Bob_G8NSV> no bournemouth airport is owned by manchester airport group
[22:33] <Bob_G8NSV> wish i was, nats pension!!
[22:34] <gonzo_> well you don't have far to go for a callout!
[22:34] <Bob_G8NSV> at least i dont work for Airwork anymore :)
[22:34] <Bob_G8NSV> no 3 miles from home
[22:34] <Morseman> OK 18km is probably too low for #highaltitude, so can you point me towards where tjose regs are please?
[22:36] <gonzo_> jut wiki cocom
[22:36] <gonzo_> s
[22:38] <Morseman> Long time ago, in a reality far, far away I was an electrical engineer on standby in the Birmingham area. I used to be authorised for switching up to 132kV and even did testing on protection and voltage regulation circuits
[22:38] <Morseman> But not now...
[22:38] <Bob_G8NSV> might take my yagi in at the weekend for the launches and stick it up on the roof. got the software for my funcube on a laptop at work
[22:39] <Bob_G8NSV> big wiggly amps!
[22:39] <Bob_G8NSV> the most our airfield guys do is 10kv
[22:40] <Bob_G8NSV> the lighting circuits run on hat
[22:40] Nick change: jol02 -> jolo2
[22:40] <Morseman> The 110V and 240V DC batteries are nastier beasts
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[22:41] <Morseman> They bite hard if you don't take care
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[22:41] <Bob_G8NSV> our old radar had 60kv in the TX, the new one only has about 48V solid state!
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[22:41] <gonzo_> my first job was working on the cross channel power link
[22:41] <gonzo_> they rectify the ac and send dc over, then switch it at te rx end
[22:42] <Morseman> Lower the volts the nastier the jolts!
[22:42] <Bob_G8NSV> dc the worst
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[22:43] <Morseman> gonzo_ DC links are bad - no zero crossover point on the waveform for the circuit breakers to work on
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[22:44] <Bob_G8NSV> well im off up the wooden hill chat tomorrow all
[22:45] <Morseman> In Birmingham there were DC links installed for the trams - story was the foreman had to break the spark with his cap until a spring break system was installed...
[22:45] <gonzo_> they used a huge bank of GTO thyristors to switch it up to 3ph again. The demo stack was all honed and polished surcfaces, all dome with love by our head of labs
[22:45] <Bob_G8NSV> night gonzo night morseman
[22:46] <Morseman> GN Bob_G8NSV
[22:46] <gonzo_> the real onea were graunched together by monkies using handfulls of conductive grease
[22:46] <gonzo_> first time they power it up it blew up
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[22:46] <gonzo_> rgr gn, bed time for bonzo's gere too
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[22:49] <Morseman> GN gonzo_ I'll tell you about the old mercury arc 6 port rectifiers that the wat6er board still had when I was a lad as well... :-)
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[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> good evening daveake
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[23:30] <daveake> evening LL
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 13 2012