highaltitude.log.20120411

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[01:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "[UKHAS] New feature: upcoming launches calendar"
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[01:09] Action: NigeyS yawns
[01:10] <Randomskk> uuugh google calendar
[01:11] <Randomskk> so annoying at importing ical files
[01:11] <Randomskk> so annoying
[01:16] <NigeyS> hehe
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[01:23] <natrium42> Randomskk: very nice
[01:24] <natrium42> Randomskk: can you add http://arshaw.com/fullcalendar to schedule launches? :)
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[04:02] <schofieldau> is the imgur API down for anyone else
[04:12] <natrium42> schofieldau: i think they were having trouble all day
[04:13] <schofieldau> hmm seems to be better new I just reauthenticated my chrome extension
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[05:06] <schofieldau> http://www.zazz.com.au/daily/thingy/5458
[05:06] <schofieldau> guess what today's "daily deal" is
[05:07] <schofieldau> $26 shipped
[05:10] <schofieldau> Darkside: is that the same one you have?
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[05:32] <Darkside> schofieldau: we dont think its the correct tuner
[05:32] <schofieldau> okay
[05:32] <schofieldau> good thing I haven't bought it just yet
[05:32] <Darkside> i mean, it'll work
[05:33] <Darkside> but it isn't the best tuner you can get
[05:33] <schofieldau> yep
[05:33] <schofieldau> the FC0012 instead of the E4000
[05:33] <Darkside> yup
[05:34] <schofieldau> is the difference just in the range of frequencies it can receive?
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[05:35] <Darkside> and in the filtering it has on the input
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[06:02] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: awake, few things to finish with the hardware and will start preparing for launch #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/189956671383158785]
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[06:10] <jcoxon> morning all
[06:16] <schofieldau> morning
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[07:05] <jcoxon> looking for a launch site on google maps
[07:11] <number10> 51.275193, 1.095601
[07:12] <jcoxon> :-)
[07:12] <jcoxon> i'll escape out of canterbury
[07:12] <jcoxon> 51.2489, 1.1527
[07:18] <number10> that looks good as far as trees go
[07:29] <schofieldau> jdtanner, you about?
[07:29] <schofieldau> nope
[07:32] <UpuWork> when you see him let me know
[07:32] <jcoxon> there is a good global tuner for my flight
[07:32] <eroomde> i would likei dont think zeusbot understands that instruction
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[07:32] <eroomde> whoopsy
[07:36] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: all wired up, adding insulation #ukhas #atlasballoon [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/189980239458353153]
[07:46] <eroomde> nice work thanks Randomskk
[07:46] <fsphil> now if only gnome would read that into its calendar
[07:46] Action: fsphil beats up gnome
[07:47] <eroomde> i'm fully cloudy for that kind of thing now
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[07:59] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: Pico Launch today from Kent, out to sea, aiming for ~1200BST, final test of payload underway #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/189985892771962880]
[07:59] <griffonbot> @jgrahamc: RT @jamescoxon: Pico Launch today from Kent, out to sea, aiming for ~1200BST, final test of payload underway #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jgrahamc/status/189986093247115264]
[08:03] <fsphil> hopefully not one for the fishies
[08:04] <jcoxon> of trees
[08:04] <jcoxon> or*
[08:04] <Elmar_PD3EM> sent it over ;-)
[08:04] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: RT @jamescoxon: Pico Launch today from Kent, out to sea, aiming for ~1200BST, final test of payload underway #ukhas #HAB [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/189987236652130304]
[08:05] <Elmar_PD3EM> GM/GA
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[08:13] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: payload working, now for balloon fill, will also need to travel to launch site #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/189989495100276736]
[08:14] <jcoxon> total payload mass is 33.3g
[08:17] <Darkside> nice
[08:18] <UpuWork> impressive
[08:19] <UpuWork> Bit out of my range I suspect, and I forgot to to turn on the interface
[08:19] <Darkside> what mode is it?
[08:20] <jcoxon> Darkside, rtty during the day and slow-hell at night
[08:20] <jcoxon> assuming it floats...
[08:20] <Darkside> cool
[08:20] <Darkside> what battery?
[08:21] <Darkside> how long do you expect it to last?
[08:21] <Darkside> oh 2xAAA
[08:21] <Darkside> aha! a lipower :D
[08:21] <Darkside> mannn, you should have made it RX too
[08:22] <Darkside> that'd be awesom
[08:22] <jcoxon> yesterdays test was 25hrs
[08:23] <jcoxon> and that was with hte gps on during the day (only eco power saving)
[08:23] <jcoxon> so there is loads of scope left
[08:23] <jcoxon> especially with solar and lithiums
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[08:44] <jcoxon> hey navrac
[08:45] <navrac> hi jcoxon
[08:45] <navrac> hows the weather - and how long did the test last
[08:46] <jcoxon> test lasted 25hrs
[08:46] <jcoxon> weather isn't too bad
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[08:46] <jcoxon> going to launch
[08:46] <jcoxon> quick question
[08:47] <navrac> very nice - 25hours will do nicely
[08:47] <navrac> yep
[08:47] <jcoxon> how much free lift did you give ozzie?
[08:47] <navrac> I timed ozzie to give an ascent rate of 1m/s
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[08:48] <jcoxon> did you get steves message?
[08:48] <navrac> ozzie2 - i thought i'd filled the same - but it didnt seem to have enough lift to get off the ground at the launch site - but when it took off it was closer to 2m/s
[08:49] <navrac> that he was having a launch?
[08:49] <UpuWork> duh
[08:49] <jcoxon> no that ozzie2 has been found!
[08:49] <fsphil> hehe
[08:49] <UpuWork> your payload has been found
[08:49] <navrac> really!
[08:49] <UpuWork> it was in someones back garden
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[08:49] <UpuWork> Give Steve a call he has the address
[08:49] <navrac> where?
[08:49] <navrac> oh woopie
[08:50] <UpuWork> he posted coords last night
[08:50] <UpuWork> check Zeusbot logs
[08:51] <fsphil> Apr 10 22:54:32 <RocketBoy> it was found ere http://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212646467521199892009.0004bd5910d91206b6de8&msa=0&ll=52.311522,1.412344&spn=0.006533,0.01929
[08:51] <UpuWork> that
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[08:54] <navrac> excellent news - pretty much where i thought it was
[08:54] <navrac> well a bit further on
[08:54] <navrac> right - I'll email them then ring them and get it back
[08:54] <navrac> and launch it again!
[08:55] <UpuWork> should write your phone number on it next time :)
[08:56] <jcoxon> okay guys
[08:56] <jcoxon> i'm ready to head out to the launch site
[08:56] <UpuWork> have fun
[08:56] <fsphil> good luck!
[08:57] <jcoxon> could someone have a listen on a local GT
[08:57] <jcoxon> as for backup telem
[08:58] <jcoxon> can't promise good internet coverage
[08:58] <craag> jcoxon: I was going to use the Ashford GT
[08:59] <craag> When do you want me to start listening?
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[08:59] <jcoxon> i'll come on here before launch
[09:00] <craag> ok
[09:01] <jcoxon> the sheppy one will be good as well
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[09:01] <jcoxon> bbl
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[09:18] <jcoxon> waiting for lock
[09:18] <priyesh> morning
[09:19] <priyesh> just setup apex remote tracking station for today
[09:20] <Elmar_PD3EM> good luck jcoxon !
[09:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> rx will be on a little later on my side
[09:21] <navrac_> aerial is up and radio is on here
[09:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> great news about ozzie2 navrac_ !
[09:23] <navrac_> I know - looks quite intact (apart from the top cover) on the photo.
[09:24] <jcoxon> up
[09:24] <navrac_> hope to go and get it tonight
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[09:26] <F5MVO> good morning all
[09:27] <F5MVO> Pico is up ?
[09:27] <F5MVO> oh yes
[09:27] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: launched! 434.202Mhz RTTY #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190008183488651264]
[09:28] <jcoxon> eek
[09:28] <jcoxon> slow down
[09:29] <jcoxon> come on pico
[09:29] <jcoxon> get higher
[09:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> he will jcoxon ! and sent it over slowly ;-)
[09:35] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:35] <jcoxon> anyone got a signal yet?
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[09:38] <F5MVO> slow up ?
[09:38] <jcoxon> yes
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[09:39] <F5MVO> F5APQ salut Alain
[09:40] <jcoxon> hmmm seem to get the occasional repeated string
[09:40] <jcoxon> thats a bit worrying
[09:40] <F5MVO> F5APQ , désolé pour le prénom
[09:40] <fsphil> that happened nigel's pico, after the code issues the flight-mode command
[09:40] <F5APQ> OK salut pas de soucis hi
[09:40] <jcoxon> didn't really get it in the tests
[09:40] <F5MVO> j'ai confondu avec F6AGV !
[09:41] <F5MVO> vous êtes a coté je crois ?
[09:42] <jcoxon> 1km
[09:43] <Upu> out of the "tree zone" :)
[09:43] <F5APQ> <F5MVO> Oui a few kms
[09:44] <jcoxon> anyone else hear it?
[09:46] <fsphil> wish I could GT this one
[09:46] <navrac_> I can't - might haev a receiver fault 434.2?
[09:47] <craag> I'm on the ashford GT and I've got nothing. 434.200 USB right?
[09:47] <jcoxon> 434.202
[09:47] <jcoxon> does it have USB
[09:47] <jcoxon> lots don't
[09:47] <craag> Sorry yes, 434.202, still nothing. It does, I've used it in the past.
[09:47] <jcoxon> sheppy?
[09:48] <jcoxon> 1.5km
[09:49] <UpuWork> fast for a pico or is that normal ?
[09:49] <F5APQ> I copy but too weak
[09:49] <navrac_> whats the split - i can see traces of something with what looks like 250 hz
[09:49] <jcoxon> 450
[09:50] <jcoxon> UpuWork, its sped up a bit
[09:50] <jcoxon> will see
[09:50] <jcoxon> around 800m it was 0.5m/s
[09:50] <kokey> trying to get over the channel?
[09:50] <eroomde> i am in burgundy
[09:50] <UpuWork> 2.3m/s now :)
[09:50] <eroomde> optimisitc i think
[09:51] <eroomde> also in a valley
[09:52] <kokey> your chances might be better if you have a lot of trees and power cables
[09:52] <UpuWork> we don't actually have anyone listening in the UK in range apart from the GT
[09:52] <UpuWork> number10 isn't online
[09:53] <UpuWork> Oh Apex is
[09:53] <jcoxon> its okay
[09:53] <jcoxon> i've got it for now
[09:53] <craag> People are welcome to tune in to the ashford GT with me.
[09:54] <jcoxon> ashford is in a valley
[09:54] <jcoxon> so it might take a bit of time
[09:54] <jcoxon> also its not that high yet
[09:54] <craag> ah kk
[09:59] <jcoxon> every 50 strings it pauses as it re sends all the gps config commands
[09:59] <UpuWork> got any pictures of the payload ?
[10:00] <F5MVO> no heard from Dover globaltunes
[10:02] <navrac_> no trace here either
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[10:04] <jcoxon> it might be because its at 8db
[10:04] <UpuWork> really squeezing the power
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[10:05] <navrac_> daveake used 8db
[10:05] <UpuWork> on Buzz ?
[10:05] <navrac_> yep and on his pico flights
[10:06] <navrac_> I would have thought i would have seen a trace - its only 3db down
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[10:06] <jcoxon> i've got a good signal here
[10:06] <jcoxon> so its not the rx/tx gpio issue
[10:07] <navrac_> im not convinced the cable hasnt come out of my colinear
[10:07] <danielsaul> Nothing from Apex either :(
[10:08] <craag> Still nothing from ashford gt.
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[10:09] <F5MVO> nothing fron Dover
[10:10] <jcoxon> 3km
[10:11] <navrac_> nice looking ascent rate
[10:13] <F5MVO> it'll be hard to follow
[10:13] <F5APQ> have to go meal back soon
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[10:14] <jcoxon> i've got it for now
[10:14] <jcoxon> no problem tracking
[10:14] <priyesh> 434.202 USB?
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[10:14] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: 3238m altitude, about to cross out to sea #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190020080996843521]
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[10:15] <jcoxon> f5apq!
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[10:15] <jcoxon> hooray
[10:16] <navrac_> phew
[10:16] <UpuWork> :)
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[10:16] <Matt_soton> hmm its right in astra's blind spot
[10:17] <kokey> I guess Astra is not there to detect dangers coming across the channel
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[10:20] <craag> F5APQ: Have you got anything different as dial freq?
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[10:20] <UpuWork> Over the wet stuff
[10:20] <jcoxon> 434.20215
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[10:20] <Matt_soton> kokey: theres a tall building to the east
[10:21] <daveake> Ah, a non-tree pico launch. Good stuff :)
[10:21] <daveake> Sorry I can't help tracking today - am at a customer site
[10:21] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: pico is now out to sea, at 3508m, follow on http://t.co/pAOZOoep , near by radio listeners greatly appreciated! #ukhas #arhab [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190021869703929856]
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[10:26] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: RT @jamescoxon: pico is now out to sea, at 3508m, follow on http://t.co/pAOZOoep , near by radio listeners greatly appreciated! #ukhas # ... [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/190022981232242688]
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[10:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> i hope to be home in an hour or so and pick up the signal by then
[10:27] <UpuWork> I doubt even if I'd remembered to turn my CAT interface on I'd be able to hear it
[10:28] <Elmar_PD3EM> UpuWork: make it al switchable via remote ;-)
[10:29] <UpuWork> well it normally is :)
[10:29] <UpuWork> I turned the CAt interface off as it was keying up the radio when I programmed my Arduino
[10:29] <UpuWork> its technically your fault as I was messing with the newsoftserial for you :)
[10:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> I have the same problem with the Arduino and the microham ;-)
[10:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> the GPS is on uart now
[10:30] <jcoxon> hmmm signal aint so good now
[10:30] <jcoxon> this is going to be a challenge to track
[10:32] <jcoxon> 4km
[10:33] <UpuWork> float expected ~5.5km ?
[10:33] <jcoxon> yeah about, if it actually happens
[10:34] <UpuWork> did you mail Brian ?
[10:36] <jcoxon> oh dear, laptop battery dying
[10:36] <jcoxon> don't have long out at launch site
[10:37] <jcoxon> UpuWork, not yet
[10:37] <jcoxon> will see how things go
[10:37] <UpuWork> ok
[10:39] <kokey> I bought one of those jump starters with an inverter and compressor this weekend
[10:39] <kokey> though it has a tiny batter I don't think it will keep a laptop running for very long and doesn't seem to have the option of a high current input
[10:39] <jcoxon> it might be floating
[10:42] <mfa298> kokey: the jumpstarter I've got has something like a 20Ah battery in it. I've used it a couple of times for charging my netbook but that only pulls around 11W.
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[10:42] <F5MVO> f6agv heard !
[10:42] <mfa298> a plug in inverter can also be useful as it can run off the car cigarette ligher and you can keep the engine running for more power.
[10:43] <daveake> So where are all the UK trackers? :p
[10:43] <Elmar_PD3EM> depending on the French now ;-)
[10:43] <UpuWork> F6AGV has it
[10:44] <UpuWork> at work I suspect daveake :)
[10:44] <Elmar_PD3EM> great he has it covered now
[10:44] <daveake> :)
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[10:48] <Elmar_PD3EM> got to go.... aprs.fi/?call=PD3EM-9 back for tracking later
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[10:52] <navrac_> I'm here - just no hint of a signal - taken down the colinear checked the connections but still nothing
[10:53] <daveake> Well if you can't get it from there, not much point me going outside and putting the magmount on the car :|
[10:53] <gonzo_> I can usually leave my rx on and fiddle FLdigi on vnc, but at the moment, no way of tuning the radio
[10:54] <gonzo_> (need to repatch the other RX to the colinear)
[10:54] <navrac_> can see it now - but far too weak to decode
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[10:55] <jcoxon> back
[10:56] <UpuWork> wb
[10:56] <UpuWork> F6AGV had it for a while
[10:57] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:57] <jcoxon> we'll find it
[10:59] <navrac_> got $$PECO
[10:59] <jcoxon> so its still alive
[10:59] <jcoxon> i'm back home which is a radio deadzone
[11:03] <jcoxon> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/13497_trj001.gif
[11:03] <jcoxon> at that altitude
[11:05] <jcoxon> oh cool another point
[11:07] <daveake> Heading for our Danish member then :)
[11:08] <jcoxon> yes but thats along way away
[11:08] <jcoxon> obviously not a great signal as people are struggling to track it
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[11:09] <jcoxon> hi F5APQ
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[11:09] <daveake> Aerial got broke? Any other possibilities?
[11:10] <jcoxon> clean launch
[11:10] <jcoxon> 8db setting
[11:10] <daveake> cloud4 (ntx2) was relatively weak but when I got it back and checked, everything looked ok
[11:10] <jcoxon> very difficult to test until you fly
[11:11] <daveake> Indeed
[11:11] <daveake> I used 8db on my Pico launch and my last 2 Buzz launches, all of which got good reports on signal strength
[11:11] <daveake> As you say you don't know till you fly really
[11:11] <jcoxon> also its in a non-populated area
[11:12] <daveake> I did do an "over the nearest hill" test with rfm22 vs ntx2 and the former did seem a little bit better to me
[11:12] <daveake> Wasn't much in it though, and I'm not sure how good a test that was anywy
[11:12] <jcoxon> well we know where its going
[11:13] <jcoxon> and the batteries 'should' hold
[11:14] <jcoxon> though it won't be till this evening when it reaches land again
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[11:16] <navrac_> its very weak here now - can barely see any traces
[11:16] <F5APQ> signal is very weak, should be stronger here ?
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[11:17] <jcoxon> might be aerial damage
[11:17] <jcoxon> but it was a clean launch
[11:17] <jcoxon> it should be stronger
[11:17] <F5APQ> I think so
[11:17] <r2x0t> any predictions for path for pico?
[11:17] <jcoxon> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/11510_trj001.gif
[11:18] <jonsowman> UpuWork: got the cat cable, thanks!
[11:19] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: quiet signal, perhaps antenna damage (though clean launch), struggling to track - will reach netherlands by 1800UTC #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190036358256005122]
[11:21] <navrac_> its still transmitting anyway
[11:21] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:22] <jcoxon> nice to know if its floating...
[11:22] <navrac_> when it drifts past a local carrier I'll have another good stab at getting the altitude
[11:23] <jcoxon> shame the sheppy GT isn't online
[11:23] <jcoxon> that is excellently placed
[11:25] <gonzo_> Someone has just joked and I';m sure someone here will have the answer! .... What sort of volume of he would it need to get some useful free lift, from a condom. And what would the burst height be (which I know is asking for jokes!)
[11:25] <cuddykid> jcoxon: do you code in any increase in output power?
[11:26] <jcoxon> cuddykid, i haven't was going for long duration
[11:26] <cuddykid> ah ok
[11:27] <cuddykid> I'm tempted to do one on friday.. just don't want to loose the payload!
[11:27] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:27] <jcoxon> weather doesn't look great on friday
[11:27] <jcoxon> only launch in nice weather
[11:27] <cuddykid> that's another problem
[11:28] <cuddykid> I'll probably just help out Will with his launch here
[11:28] <cuddykid> weather pending
[11:28] <jcoxon> good work F5APQ
[11:29] <jcoxon> it must be pretty cold up there
[11:29] <jcoxon> that battery has dropped considerably
[11:29] <gonzo_> (no answers to my question. I KNOW someone must have calculated it, but is probably not going to admit to it)
[11:29] <cuddykid> looks awesome -> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=867bab8926d76969a7251717a2f168275d6abdd4
[11:29] <kokey> gonzo_: good question I think
[11:29] <gonzo_> what problem with poor wx? Just the extra weight of water on the balloon?
[11:29] <cuddykid> really hope the weather holds off
[11:29] <jcoxon> gonzo_, yeah, with picos its so sensitive to additional mass
[11:30] <jcoxon> considering free lift is 2-3g
[11:30] <jcoxon> cuddykid, bit close to birmingham?
[11:30] <cuddykid> jcoxon: I'll watch that but I've had a play about and with various ascents etc it should stay away
[11:31] <F5APQ> Very difficult now, certainly problem with antenna
[11:31] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a76c3920017e5947469d8ff2d719cc3a54c9bb96
[11:32] <gonzo_> that small! From the blurb on steves page, it reconed lifting 60gm of payload
[11:32] <jcoxon> F5APQ, thank you for trying!
[11:32] <jcoxon> gonzo_, yeah but it won't go very high
[11:33] <gonzo_> what would be a sensible max payload for a useful flight?
[11:33] <jcoxon> depends
[11:33] <jcoxon> whats the aim?
[11:33] <jonsowman> cuddykid: that's really too close to b'ham airport
[11:34] <jonsowman> turn on the predictor's notam overlay
[11:34] <jonsowman> if it's a pico then that's even worse
[11:34] <cuddykid> ahh yeah, I'll leave it up to Will anyway as it will be his launch
[11:35] <gonzo_> prob looking at a few 1000mtrs alt
[11:35] <jcoxon> want it to float?
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[11:35] <jonsowman> cuddykid: foil or latex?
[11:35] <gonzo_> ah, foil 36"
[11:35] <cuddykid> latex - full blown flight
[11:36] <jonsowman> cuddykid: ah cool,well that's a bit better, but personally i think it's too close to the airport
[11:36] <jcoxon> cuddykid, save your pico :-)
[11:36] <cuddykid> yep, I'm not sure what his target alt etc is atm, he gets back tomorrow I think
[11:36] <cuddykid> jcoxon: will do :P
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[11:37] <cuddykid> pico would drift off south though, heading to daveake
[11:37] <cuddykid> then off across east I think
[11:37] <daveake> I could do with a free tracker
[11:37] <jcoxon> i wonder how much He i have left
[11:37] <f6agv> sorry boys pico signal is too weak ?
[11:38] <jcoxon> f6agv, yeah, not sure why
[11:38] <gonzo_> nigeys should have a spare onwe now, if it;s arrived!
[11:38] <jcoxon> perhaps antenna damage
[11:38] <jonsowman> jcoxon: damaged on launch?
[11:38] <jcoxon> really easy launch
[11:39] <jonsowman> hmm
[11:39] <jcoxon> might be the slightly lower power setting
[11:39] <jcoxon> 8dbm
[11:39] <jonsowman> jcoxon: is it an rfm?
[11:39] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:39] <jcoxon> though 8db hasn't been an issue before
[11:39] <f6agv> my friend Jack F5APQ is alone to receive a poor signal, not so easy
[11:39] <jonsowman> i wouldn't have thought that'd make too much difference
[11:40] <jonsowman> that's like 7mW? or something
[11:40] <jcoxon> f6agv, http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/11510_trj001.gif
[11:40] <jcoxon> this is the flight path
[11:40] <jcoxon> and its now in a stable float
[11:40] <jonsowman> 6.3mW
[11:40] <jcoxon> so we'll hear it in a few hours
[11:40] <F5APQ> I am using horizontal antenna !
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[11:41] <f6agv> yeah jack hard to copy !
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[11:43] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Pico in the air"
[11:44] <jcoxon> battery voltage is about 3v
[11:44] <jcoxon> from 2xAAA
[11:45] <jcoxon> another string by F5APQ
[11:46] <gonzo_> you switching that up to 3.3v?
[11:46] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:47] <gonzo_> what switcher do you use?
[11:47] <jcoxon> its a lipower board from sparkfun
[11:47] <jcoxon> modded so it doesn't cut out at 2.6v
[11:47] <jcoxon> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10255
[11:49] <daveake> 3v sounds about right. The voltage will drop with lower temperature as the internal resistance rises.
[11:50] <Randomskk> the internal resistance goes up as the temperature goes down?
[11:50] <daveake> Yep. http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/BatteryIR.pdf has a chart on page 2
[11:50] <Randomskk> curious
[11:50] <daveake> For an AA at -20 it's a .4 ohms. Will be higher for an AAA I assume
[11:50] <Randomskk> ah they have a brief note why, fair enough
[11:51] <daveake> chemistry :)
[11:51] <F5APQ> It is ending for me now, bye
[11:51] <jcoxon> thanks F5APQ
[11:53] <eroomde> that was a slightly philosophical farewell
[11:53] <Laurenceb> ooh that smps is niceee
[11:53] <jcoxon> captain oakes style
[11:53] <Laurenceb> will have to try it on future projects
[11:54] <Laurenceb> pity the quiescent current is high
[11:54] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: I have it on wombat
[11:54] <Randomskk> it caused days of frustration
[11:54] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:55] <Randomskk> and then didn't work with lithium batteries at launch for some reason
[11:55] <Randomskk> only the lipo
[11:55] <Laurenceb> do you use the power save mode?
[11:55] <Randomskk> despite the lithium pack being higher voltage
[11:55] <Randomskk> no
[11:55] <Randomskk> :/
[11:55] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:55] <Randomskk> I copied the sparkfun design which disables power save
[11:55] <Randomskk> also the low voltage cutout was behaving very badly
[11:55] <daveake> With that converter, the resistors that set the o/p voltage are ~1Mohm. Suggest you spray it with lacquer otherwise the voltage can change if you handle the board
[11:55] <kokey> which linux distro does gnuradio tend to compile on the smoothest?
[11:55] <Randomskk> hysteresis of like some volts
[11:55] <Randomskk> annoying
[11:56] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Hardware/Schematics/pmg.png
[11:56] <Darkside> Randomskk: we've had that too
[11:56] <kokey> I guess with bleeding edge hardware the debian/ubuntus are probably the best option
[11:56] <Darkside> wd couldn't get ours running below 1.3v or something like that
[11:56] <Laurenceb> Darkside: you've used it?
[11:56] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:56] <Laurenceb> ive used the design on the bottom of that schematic
[11:56] <Laurenceb> but it doesnt like <2.5v
[11:56] <Darkside> yeah.. this is the issue
[11:56] <Laurenceb> fine for single lipo, and itll run up to 16v
[11:56] <Darkside> the datasheet saud 0.8v or so
[11:56] <Darkside> said*
[11:57] <Laurenceb> lt3467 runs from ~2v to 16v ok for me
[11:58] <Laurenceb> quiescent current is down to 1ma or so, but the efficiency is about 85% max
[11:58] <Laurenceb> as its sepic with a schokkey diode, not using FETs like the Ti thing
[11:59] <fsphil> kokey, any of them probably
[11:59] <Laurenceb> kokey: trying to use a dvbt stick?
[12:00] <kokey> Laurenceb: going to, got one delivered today
[12:00] <Laurenceb> cool
[12:00] <Laurenceb> i need to try and get mine working
[12:00] <kokey> though it has the FC0012 tuner
[12:00] <Laurenceb> was tempted to write so custom c code using libusb or something
[12:01] <kokey> Laurenceb: why custom?
[12:01] <Laurenceb> making a Jack server seems easy
[12:01] <Laurenceb> simpler
[12:01] <kokey> ah yeah, I get you
[12:01] <Laurenceb> just fire it up and connect to jack server
[12:01] <Darkside> Laurenceb: lots of decimation reqired
[12:01] <Laurenceb> then talk to it with xmlrpc using fldigi
[12:01] <Darkside> but yeah
[12:01] <Laurenceb> Darkside: shrug
[12:01] <Darkside> woudl do
[12:01] <kokey> I was thinking about that a few minutes ago, writing my own buffer service or something
[12:01] <Darkside> minimum sample rate on the things is 1MSPS
[12:02] <Laurenceb> id be tempted to try libsamplerate
[12:02] <Laurenceb> but its very cpu heavy
[12:02] <Laurenceb> my cc1020 receiver uses about 15% of the cpu
[12:02] <Laurenceb> and thats ~32Ksps, 8 bit
[12:03] <Laurenceb> having said that i was using max quality
[12:04] <kokey> what output does rtl-sdr generate?
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[12:04] <Darkside> you don't need that
[12:04] <Darkside> theres a gnuradio source block now
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[12:05] <jcoxon> wow another string
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[12:05] <kokey> what makes the E4000 tuner better than the FC0013?
[12:05] <Darkside> wider tuning range, better filtering
[12:06] <Darkside> well, filtering.
[12:06] <Darkside> FC0012 doesn't really have... filtering
[12:06] <kokey> ah ok
[12:06] <kokey> is the AGC in the tuner or not part of it?
[12:06] <Darkside> not sure
[12:07] <Darkside> i think theres one in the RTL chip too
[12:07] <kokey> if it is, then that could be useful
[12:07] <kokey> not to have one that is
[12:07] <Laurenceb> e4000 has agc on the front
[12:07] <Darkside> the good thing abotu the e4000 is its a known chip
[12:07] <kokey> true
[12:07] <Darkside> its beem used in the FCD for long enough, theres drivers for it
[12:07] <Darkside> osmocom guys are working on their own SDR using it too
[12:07] <kokey> I suspect the FC00xx drivers could be dodgy
[12:07] <Darkside> so yeah, its far more customizable
[12:08] <Laurenceb> hard to source tho
[12:08] <Laurenceb> unless you rip it out of dongles
[12:08] <Darkside> yeah, getting the raw chips is hard
[12:08] <Darkside> requires NDAs and shit
[12:09] <kokey> oh well I'll see how it goes with my FC0012 in the mean time
[12:09] <Darkside> i have one of the eztvs with a FC0012
[12:09] <Darkside> its usable on 70cm
[12:09] <Darkside> but local stuff will certainly screw with it
[12:10] <kokey> that's ok might just use it initially for testing
[12:10] <fsphil> I put my recording from a bt878 chip through spectravue (DC-400khz-ish) and it was awful. mostly noise, just a hint of radio stations
[12:11] <IRC_ukhas> Out of interest, how do you get into ham and APRS stuff in the U.K?
[12:12] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: what sort of envelope is this using?
[12:12] <jcoxon> 92cm foil
[12:12] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> Astrobiologist
[12:12] <Laurenceb> interesting
[12:12] <jcoxon> good work F5APQ
[12:12] <Laurenceb> seems to be floating
[12:12] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, indeed
[12:12] <jcoxon> second flight we've got to float
[12:12] <Laurenceb> think this is a first
[12:12] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:13] <Astrobiologist> The duralar I'm trying to source could be heat- sealed into larger volumes, if people are interested
[12:14] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, navrac's ozzie 1 floated around 5500m for about 10hrs
[12:14] <jcoxon> then we lost contact
[12:14] <jcoxon> wow f5apq is getting good strings now
[12:14] <fsphil> second confirmed float-- possible one of jcoxon's earlier ones might have
[12:15] <Laurenceb> maybe its an actual mylar balloon
[12:15] <Laurenceb> not nylon film
[12:15] <jcoxon> all the same balloons
[12:15] <jcoxon> i think the key is a single balloon system
[12:15] <Laurenceb> odd
[12:16] <Laurenceb> huh?
[12:16] <jcoxon> well early flights have more hten 1 balloon
[12:16] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:16] <jcoxon> these ones have a single balloon
[12:16] <Laurenceb> whats the payload?
[12:16] <Laurenceb> ntx2?
[12:16] <jcoxon> its taken quite a bit of work to get the payloads down to < 35g
[12:16] <Laurenceb> yeah, impressive
[12:16] <jcoxon> this one weighs 33.3g
[12:16] <Laurenceb> nice
[12:16] <Laurenceb> lipo cell?
[12:16] <Darkside> jcoxon: hows the drift on the RFM22B?
[12:17] <jcoxon> not too bad i think
[12:17] <Laurenceb> ah rfm
[12:17] <navrac_> nice one 33.3g is impressive
[12:17] <jcoxon> but i don't have a signle
[12:17] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, 2xAAA with a step up
[12:17] <Laurenceb> which ublox6 board?
[12:17] <Laurenceb> ok
[12:17] <jcoxon> the pico board from upu, max6
[12:17] <Laurenceb> aha i see
[12:17] <Laurenceb> hmm if you made it one pcb :P
[12:17] <jcoxon> its in the works
[12:17] <Laurenceb> im tempted to try this
[12:17] <jcoxon> ...
[12:17] <Randomskk> jonsowman: how much does joey weigh?
[12:18] <jonsowman> hang on
[12:18] <Randomskk> eroomde: or hedgehog?
[12:18] <jonsowman> i'll go weigh him
[12:18] <Darkside> hmm must try adding a gps to my cutdown board
[12:18] <Laurenceb> how do you convert adc to voltage?
[12:18] <Darkside> thats 10.81g
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[12:18] <Darkside> jcoxon: i think i'm already closer to the one pcb idea
[12:18] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: multiply by volts per LSB?...
[12:18] <eroomde> i think it was about 25g
[12:18] <Darkside> i already have a design with a avr, RFM22B, and boost converter on teh one pcb
[12:18] <F5MVO> F5APQ, ça décode ?
[12:18] <Laurenceb> durrr
[12:18] <eroomde> cant remember tgo
[12:18] <Laurenceb> i mean on the payload
[12:19] <Randomskk> ask a stupid question, ... :P
[12:19] <jcoxon> Darkside, upu is on his 2nd version
[12:19] <Laurenceb> Battery Raw: 890
[12:19] <Darkside> jcoxon: heh
[12:19] <F5APQ> F5MVO Tres tres difficile
[12:19] <UpuWork> 1st version didn't work
[12:19] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, about 2.9v
[12:19] <jonsowman> Randomskk: joey is 18 grams
[12:19] <Darkside> jcoxon: tbh the micronut boards are light neough
[12:19] <Randomskk> lol
[12:19] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:19] <Randomskk> 18g
[12:19] <Darkside> hmm no
[12:19] <Darkside> micronut is 19g
[12:19] <Randomskk> Darkside: try harder :P
[12:19] <Darkside> but thats because of the gigantic sarantel antenna
[12:20] <Laurenceb> hmm didnt someone spot weld lithium cells?
[12:20] <jcoxon> the payload bit of this is 10.9g
[12:20] <Laurenceb> thatd help
[12:20] <UpuWork> Darkside we came to that conclusion so Rev2 is a board that can be fitted with either a boost or linear and can take 2 or 4 cells
[12:20] <Darkside> UpuWork: cough
[12:20] <Darkside> already have that design :P
[12:20] <Darkside> just needs a gps
[12:20] <Randomskk> jcoxon: how much are batteries vs the rest of the bits?
[12:20] <UpuWork> Hey I'm playing catch up here :)
[12:20] <jcoxon> 2xAAA are 15.6g
[12:20] <jonsowman> joey is 48g inc batteries & holder
[12:20] <jcoxon> payload 10.9g
[12:20] <Darkside> UpuWork: though my boost converter is a TPS61200
[12:20] <Darkside> so its a bitch to solder
[12:20] <UpuWork> Yeah welcome to that
[12:20] <Randomskk> Darkside: pft it's not hard to solder
[12:20] <Randomskk> :P
[12:21] <UpuWork> I just soldered 8 GPS breakouts
[12:21] <Darkside> Randomskk: i don't have reflow gear
[12:21] <Randomskk> cry cry
[12:21] <Darkside> i do it ALL by hand
[12:21] <Randomskk> I did one by hand
[12:21] <Laurenceb> anythings easy to solder with solder paste+air
[12:21] <UpuWork> lol
[12:21] <jcoxon> then add an antenna and insulation
[12:21] <Darkside> hand solder ALL the things!
[12:21] <Darkside> hmm
[12:21] <UpuWork> btw I have some ATMega32 TQFP in stock now
[12:21] <Darkside> thats 10.9g... with the big terminal blocks and stuff on my pcb
[12:21] <Darkside> i reckon its more like 8g without all that crapo
[12:21] <Randomskk> be interesting to see how well this helical 434 antenna does
[12:22] <Darkside> i could probably deadbug a MAX-6Q module on :P
[12:22] <Randomskk> lighter and smaller and perhaps neater than the quarter waves
[12:22] <Laurenceb> QFN-32 stm32 FTW
[12:22] <Darkside> tbh though, picos don't work so well for us in australia
[12:22] <Darkside> our picos would go where nobody lives
[12:23] <Darkside> well, our floating picos anyway
[12:23] <daveake> My bug was 7.5g; you should be able to do 7g with a PCB. That included a bmp085, which you could ditch, but not a dc-dc
[12:23] <schofieldau> how do i pageup on androirc
[12:23] <Laurenceb> nobody lives in the north sea
[12:23] <Darkside> Laurenceb: :P
[12:23] <schofieldau> connectbot*
[12:23] <Darkside> i'd like to try an APRS floater though
[12:23] <Darkside> we can do that in <100g easily
[12:23] <Randomskk> schofieldau: scroll upwards on the left hand side of your screen
[12:23] <Randomskk> maybe right
[12:24] <fsphil> didn't you already do that Darkside?
[12:24] <Astrobiologist> Darkside, how do you get into APRS in the U.K?
[12:24] <Darkside> Astrobiologist: i'm in australia
[12:24] <Darkside> fsphil: that floater didn't have aprs on it, only rtty
[12:24] <eroomde> aprs not an option in the uk
[12:24] <Darkside> but it was tracked throughout the entire flight
[12:24] <eroomde> with existing rules and listwning infrastructure
[12:25] <schofieldau> cheers darkside
[12:25] <Astrobiologist> Thanks Darkside. I'd still like to do APRS as a hobby in the U.K tho eroomde
[12:25] <eroomde> sure
[12:25] <eroomde> but not airborne
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[12:25] <jcoxon> first get an amateur radio licence
[12:25] <jcoxon> the foundation courses are easy to do
[12:26] <Darkside> this weekend should be fun
[12:26] <Darkside> we're launching the crossband repeater
[12:26] <fsphil> Darkside, I mean a <100g aprs board
[12:26] <daveake> even 5-year-olds can do them :)
[12:26] <schofieldau> whoops cheers Randomskk*
[12:26] <Astrobiologist> Is that in stages jcoxon? In some countries the most basic license allows APRS?
[12:26] <Darkside> fsphil: oh, eyah
[12:26] <navrac_> nice float going on
[12:26] <Darkside> fsphil: the micronut can do it
[12:26] <fsphil> that's the one
[12:26] <Darkside> i think its actually <50g
[12:26] <eroomde> youll be allowed to do aprs with a foundation license
[12:26] <Astrobiologist> Thanks eroomde, where do I go to find out more?
[12:26] <eroomde> you are limited to 5w transmit power i beleive though with a foundation license
[12:26] <Darkside> anyway, crossband repeater, and we're flying just after the national amateur radio news broadcast
[12:26] <Darkside> so EVERYONE will know abotu the launch, right when its happening
[12:27] <fsphil> 5 watts limit and no access to the microwave bands
[12:27] <Darkside> we're going to get a massive pileup on the repeater
[12:27] <eroomde> Astrobiologist: typically find your most local amateur radio club
[12:27] <UpuWork> Astrobiologist = Oliver ?
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[12:27] <eroomde> would be a hell of a coincidence if it was someone else
[12:27] <Astrobiologist> Yes UpuWork, that's me
[12:27] <UpuWork> ah destroyer of the mailing list :)
[12:27] <schofieldau> lol
[12:27] <daveake> lol
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[12:28] <UpuWork> afternoon
[12:28] <Astrobiologist> It's almost a day job for me, see http://www.h-a-b.net
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[12:28] <Astrobiologist> I am sorry though guys, I didn't know it was a low volume list
[12:29] <Astrobiologist> There's a bunch of wierd stuff I want to try
[12:29] <mfa298> Astrobiologist: if assuming your UK based look for your local club. Most of the info you need for Amateur Radio should be on www.rsgb.org.uk
[12:29] <UpuWork> pico looking great
[12:30] <Astrobiologist> Great mfa298 that's just what I was looking for, many thanks
[12:30] <mfa298> but the Amateur License doesn't allow any airborne use so you're still limited to the license free stuff for airborne. But there's a fair bit of APRS for ground based tracking.
[12:31] <Astrobiologist> I'm just interested in it generally mfa298 and it might also be useful for flights with my colleagues in the U.S
[12:31] <Astrobiologist> They often use airborne APRS
[12:31] <SamSilver> Astrobiologist: Have you read > Lyall Watson: Heaven's Breath: A Natural History of the Wind (1984)
[12:31] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: Pico still flying, floating at 4584m, occasional data from F5AGV, thanks! #ukhas #arhab #hamr [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190054561438892032]
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[12:32] <Astrobiologist> No I haven't SamSilver, what's it about?
[12:33] <SamSilver> 500 pages about the wind > got some great stuff about inscets and bugs and germs at high altitude
[12:33] <Astrobiologist> I'll believe it when I see it on my own sterile balloon SamSilver
[12:34] <Astrobiologist> Not dissing other people's research but I think tropospheric contamination is a big issue
[12:34] <Astrobiologist> I'd love to prove other peoples' results
[12:35] <eroomde> does h2o2 get rid of dna Astrobiologist ?
[12:35] <Astrobiologist> Eroomde oxidative damage. It also kills bugs and spores
[12:36] <Astrobiologist> Sporicidal action is especially difficult, H2O2 is the gold standard
[12:36] <eroomde> so that would be sufficient pre experiment?
[12:36] <eroomde> an h2o2 shower
[12:36] <mfa298> Astrobiologist: if you're linked to a University they might well have a club related to Amateur Radio as well and based on the people down here you get lots of interests and activity as well.
[12:36] <navrac_> frequency drifting up
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[12:37] <jcoxon> navrac_, you still got carrier?
[12:37] <Astrobiologist> Eroomde, unfortunately you need to soak it, and you could still pick up stuff in flight
[12:37] <navrac_> yep - but far too weak to do anything with
[12:37] <Astrobiologist> So maybe we need a peroxide goo, which flakes off in flight
[12:37] <eroomde> vapour at low pressure insufficient?
[12:37] <fsphil> oh nice flight path
[12:38] <fsphil> and a very sudden float
[12:38] <Astrobiologist> I've no idea what would work and what wouldn't eroomde, that's half the fun :-)
[12:38] <Astrobiologist> Worth a few flights with various coatings and sampling in flight to see what cuts down tropo contamination
[12:38] <Randomskk> but then how can you be sure you get good data without contamination?
[12:38] <jcoxon> Randomskk, control flight
[12:39] <Randomskk> right, of course
[12:39] <Astrobiologist> If you see nothing through the troposphere and stratopause randomskk, i.e your coating has worked, anything you see in the stratosphere should be kosher
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[12:40] <Randomskk> Astrobiologist: or your detection is bust or you're still steralising in thhe stratosphere
[12:40] <Randomskk> but I guess you'd have some positive and negative controls at altitude or something
[12:40] <Randomskk> iirc you were doing pcr at altitude to detect genetic material?
[12:40] <Astrobiologist> Absolutely randomskk, so you'd need to try dfferent concentrations etc until you JUST sterilise through the ascent without sterilising in the stratosphere as well
[12:41] <eroomde> i was looking at givingnsomething a bath of concentrated h2o2 vapour for 30 mins or so
[12:41] <eroomde> the entire thingnincluding parachute being in a sealed plastic bag
[12:41] <Astrobiologist> Sounds good eroomde but would kill your balloon
[12:41] <eroomde> which it thenncuts itself out of via hotwire to drop nd ssmple
[12:41] <eroomde> balloon wouldnt notice a thing
[12:41] <eroomde> itd all be cntained
[12:42] <Astrobiologist> But then your balloon could contaminate the sampler
[12:42] <Astrobiologist> Latex is a biological material and also has talc etc
[12:42] <eroomde> not if you fall away from it starting from 100m below it surely.
[12:42] <Astrobiologist> You have to assume it leaves a plume of contamination behind it
[12:43] <eroomde> so have the sealed bag with experiment inside hanging 100m below
[12:43] <Randomskk> so start falling first, then cut out of the bag
[12:43] <Randomskk> you could be 2km below it
[12:43] <eroomde> yeah
[12:43] <eroomde> parachute to sealed bag
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> Heat may be easier
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> to sterilise
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> heat to 150C
[12:43] <eroomde> drop the whole thing then cut out of the sealed bag
[12:43] <Randomskk> outside of the sealed bag may have contaminates
[12:44] <Astrobiologist> Yes randomskk, it's fun to think about innit?
[12:44] <Astrobiologist> So I was thinking of flying a few solar balloons with a coating, to see what happens
[12:45] <Randomskk> when you say solar balloons
[12:45] <Astrobiologist> Could be PE, or mylar. And could make big sealed balloons for latter with hydrogen or heliuma.
[12:45] <eroomde> maybe the h2o2 spayers could be active for te first few 100m of descent
[12:45] <Randomskk> do you mean using air?
[12:45] <Randomskk> and solar heat?
[12:45] <Randomskk> because I think that would really struggle to get to a useful altitude /or/ to lift any useful payload
[12:45] <Astrobiologist> Yes randomskk, you are correct
[12:46] <jcoxon> i'd have to agree - there is a reason why the science community use latex
[12:46] <Randomskk> why not zero pressures or other stronger film based balloons filled with helium/hydrogen?
[12:46] <daveake> Probably struggle to miss the nearest tree too
[12:46] <Astrobiologist> Randomskk, solar balloons have hit 50,000ft and drifted up to 600miles. They can get so hot that they melt the plastic
[12:46] <Randomskk> carrying how much payload?
[12:46] <eroomde> the science community use latex because its very simple when you dont care about contamintion
[12:46] <SamSilver> jcoxon: PD3EM has logged on from near Rotterdam
[12:46] <eroomde> eg for weather
[12:47] <gonzo_> H2 balloon, at some alt, inject O2 amd a spark. Then let the sterilisation begin
[12:47] <eroomde> doesnt necessarily have any bearing on suitability for other types f experiment
[12:47] <eroomde> start from fundamentals
[12:47] <Astrobiologist> See http://www.solar-balloons.com/
[12:47] <Randomskk> eroomde: I wonder if you could double bag it
[12:47] <Randomskk> have two layers of sterile plastic bags
[12:47] <Randomskk> shed the outer one when you separate from the balloon
[12:47] <Randomskk> then descent for a km
[12:47] <jcoxon> SamSilver, just saw that, it'll be a little time till its in range
[12:47] <Randomskk> then shed the inner bag
[12:48] <eroomde> i think it all comes down to the cleanliness of your cutaway
[12:48] <Astrobiologist> Gonzo, sounds good, but you'd be amazed how heat resistant some spores are
[12:48] <eroomde> or rather, cut out
[12:48] <Randomskk> that way the inner bag can't have low altitude contaminates on it
[12:48] <Randomskk> except possibly from the balloon
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[12:48] <Randomskk> but that seems suitably unlikely
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[12:48] <eroomde> i guess you could have the region between the two bsg lsyers full of h2o2 vapour too
[12:48] <Randomskk> yea that's what I mean
[12:48] <jcoxon> hey Elmar_PD3EM
[12:48] <Astrobiologist> Our french colleagues flew a 4m solar balloon to 50,000ft with a 1kg payload
[12:48] <Randomskk> so you don't get any contaminates on the outside of your inner bag
[12:48] <Elmar_PD3EM_> hey! Finally home
[12:49] <UpuWork> get listening :)
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> H2O2 vapour has the fun property of being able to detonate.
[12:49] <Elmar_PD3EM_> still nill here :-(
[12:49] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: that makes cutdown easier then I guess
[12:49] <daveake> lol
[12:49] <eroomde> not at our concenrations SpeedEvil
[12:49] Action: SpeedEvil mehs at the source of HTP going away.
[12:49] <jcoxon> how about sampling on descent
[12:49] <eroomde> we're trying to be practical here
[12:49] <Randomskk> yea that's what eroomde and I are thinking of
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> I found a nice source for HTP, which would even ship.
[12:49] <eroomde> raher than pub reckoning
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> Espensive - but still.
[12:50] <eroomde> we have gallons of the stuff at work
[12:50] <eroomde> getting it is no issue
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> high-test?
[12:50] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, the range isn't very good - poor signal
[12:50] <eroomde> no just 100 vol
[12:50] <eroomde> use it for sterilising stuff
[12:50] <Elmar_PD3EM_> so when trying to get home early... always problems. Now a backup tape drive failing..
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I was meaning HTP - for rocketry.
[12:50] <eroomde> getting rid of anyrhing organic in lox lines etc
[12:50] <eroomde> we werent
[12:50] <Elmar_PD3EM_> i'll keep an eye on the waterfall ;-)
[12:50] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, do you know any hams nearer to the balloon?
[12:50] <eroomde> we were looking at sterilising experiments
[12:50] <Randomskk> I wonder how you'd cleanly cut out of a plastic bag
[12:51] <Elmar_PD3EM_> tried to contact DutchMill...
[12:51] <eroomde> hot wire maybe.
[12:51] <Astrobiologist> 3% H2O2 is easy to get - hair bleach! Not hazmat at all. So a good place to start
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> 35% is quite easy too.
[12:51] <Randomskk> hot wire could open the bag but you'd want to pass through it without touching ideally
[12:51] <eroomde> we can get 30% mail ordered
[12:51] <eroomde> no special precautions
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> More probably tricky.
[12:51] <Astrobiologist> Yes speedevil, you can get it on amazon!
[12:51] <navrac_> ftrequency now drifting rapidly
[12:51] <Astrobiologist> But we'd need gallons of it
[12:51] <Randomskk> I wonder if you could get around doing PCR onboard
[12:52] <eroomde> i bought a gallon of 30% the week before last
[12:52] <jcoxon> navrac_, like a descent drift?
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[12:52] <eroomde> i dont see wh youd need gallons of it tho?
[12:52] <Astrobiologist> I don't do PCR randomskk, I tried doing isothermal amplification in flight
[12:52] <Elmar_PD3EM_> what was the exact dial?
[12:52] <Randomskk> oh okay
[12:52] <Randomskk> either way
[12:52] <Astrobiologist> You need to soak the entire balloon eroomde. you can probably recycle it though
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> UV?
[12:52] <eroomde> im still thinking latex here
[12:53] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, 434.202 when i left it
[12:53] <navrac_> ive got it at 434201 with the carriers at 2500 and 3khz
[12:53] <eroomde> i cant see how it would be humanly possible to sterilise a balloon on the ground then have it not be contaminated before the upper straosphere
[12:53] <Elmar_PD3EM_> usb or lsb?
[12:53] <griffonbot> Received email: gemrc4 "[UKHAS] Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
[12:53] <navrac_> usb
[12:53] <navrac_> drift has stabilised a bit
[12:53] <Randomskk> eroomde: I wonder how many small payloads you could fit into the double bags
[12:53] <Astrobiologist> There's probably a hefty dose of UVC in the stratosphere. So that's one of the reasons I doubt the results so much. But it's not sporicidal
[12:54] <Randomskk> if each one is just collecting rather than doing amplification
[12:54] <fsphil> this is a nice float
[12:54] <Randomskk> just want a mechanism to seal them shut at some alttiude
[12:54] <Randomskk> then let some stay open the whole way for controls, others never open for controls
[12:54] <eroomde> one could easily have an array of uv leds inside the sealed bags too
[12:54] <Astrobiologist> Yeah, I have no money now anyway Randomskk, so I was thinking of doing some 2m exempt solar balloon flights
[12:54] <Randomskk> and a few open for high atltideu then shut
[12:54] <eroomde> and give the experiment an hours of bth in uv snd h2o2 vapour
[12:54] <jcoxon> navrac_, so its still there?
[12:55] <Astrobiologist> Eroomde unfortunately UVC leds are very expensive and fragile (I tried one)
[12:55] <navrac_> yep weak but there
[12:55] <jcoxon> good good
[12:55] <Randomskk> I don't know how easily you could make a sampling payload that sealed itself shut well enough though
[12:55] <eroomde> uvc != uv?
[12:55] <Randomskk> it's a type of UV
[12:55] <Randomskk> UV-C
[12:55] <jcoxon> come on little pico make it to the otherside
[12:55] <eroomde> the sterilising kind?
[12:55] <Darkside> looool
[12:55] <Darkside> look at the latest email
[12:55] <Astrobiologist> Uvc is the germicidal frequency of UV light, that breaks up DNA
[12:55] <Darkside> to UKHAS
[12:55] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: Looking for Dutch amateurs near the coastline to track an High Altitude Balloon now! See http://t.co/DNSfxPLG #UKHAS #HAB [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/190060605242224640]
[12:55] <Darkside> UpuWork: eroomde BALLOONISTS... ASSEMBLEEEE
[12:56] <daveake> lol
[12:56] <Darkside> you too daveake
[12:56] <fsphil> I can't think what program that is
[12:56] <daveake> ah thanks :D
[12:56] <Randomskk> eroomde: yea. cf. UVA, UVB, etc
[12:56] <UpuWork> haha
[12:56] <Randomskk> A is black lights
[12:56] <Randomskk> they get shorter in wavelength
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[12:56] <Darkside> we've alreadydone out kids show tv sput
[12:56] <Darkside> spot*
[12:56] <Randomskk> Astrobiologist: do you have to do the amplification onboard?
[12:57] <Darkside> and we've also had our foray into the indie music scene
[12:57] <UpuWork> I'll forward it on to Steve Randall
[12:57] <fsphil> whatever happend the One Show launch?
[12:57] <jcoxon> UpuWork, he is on hte list
[12:57] <Astrobiologist> Nope randomskk, my payload designed to do that was destroyed. Might rebuild it one uday
[12:57] <daveake> One Show next month I believe
[12:57] <Randomskk> if you could have several smaller payloads that each sampled
[12:57] <UpuWork> Aye she sent me a personal one with lots more detail on it then mailed the list afterwards
[12:57] <eroomde> tv stuff has et to not be a pita
[12:57] <daveake> But it's possible a slot will happen and it'll get pushed forward
[12:57] <Randomskk> or just one payload with several sampling windows
[12:58] <eroomde> 'oh we dont work weekends, sorry'
[12:58] <eroomde> well f off then
[12:58] <Astrobiologist> Amplification in flight is better since means you have amplified something in flight for sure, not a flight contaminate
[12:58] <Randomskk> yea
[12:58] <Randomskk> but if you have several samplers you could have some open the whole time, some never open, some only open at high altitude
[12:58] <eroomde> amplification in flight sounds the mosr sensible t me
[12:58] <Randomskk> and all separate
[12:58] <Randomskk> eroomde: but a huge faff
[12:58] <eroomde> and then some kind of double bag idea a la randomskk
[12:59] <Randomskk> compared to doing like, ten samples including positive and negative controls
[12:59] <eroomde> with the inner everything bathed in positive pressure h2o2 vapour during ascent
[12:59] <Randomskk> if all of your actual experiments corresponded and all your controls were okay it feels like you could have some confidence in the data
[12:59] <Astrobiologist> Ramdomskk I was thinking of a sampling tape on a spool to achieve the same thing (spooled in in flight)
[12:59] <Randomskk> that doesn't give you the same control properties though
[13:00] <Randomskk> well
[13:00] <Randomskk> well no, it doesn't, but I guess you get close
[13:00] <Randomskk> and it'd be easier to do, so long as you could be sure you seal the rest of the tape
[13:00] <Astrobiologist> Extra spool exposed only at altitude and another with no coating would be controls
[13:00] <Randomskk> and the tape doens't contaminate itself
[13:01] <Astrobiologist> The tape would presumably only contaminate the faces it is wound against - you'd have to allow for that
[13:01] <Astrobiologist> Simplest concept - 2m balloon with a hoop around it, over which the tape is spooled
[13:01] <jcoxon> organic camera
[13:01] <Astrobiologist> Pico to track
[13:01] <griffonbot> @rafvz: RT @PD3EM: Looking for Dutch amateurs near the coastline to track an High Altitude Balloon now! See http://t.co/DNSfxPLG #UKHAS #HAB [http://twitter.com/rafvz/status/190062109298659329]
[13:02] <Astrobiologist> Spool into a silver enclosure (silver is a good germicide too)
[13:02] <jcoxon> with a sterilised shutter
[13:02] <Astrobiologist> Yep, or a silver plate on the very end of the tape to seal against the opening
[13:02] <Laurenceb> Astrobiologist: www.atm.ox.ac.uk/group/eodg/mphys_reports/2008_Blaxter.pdf
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[13:02] <Laurenceb> www.atm.ox.ac.uk/group/eodg/mphys_reports/2009_Jones.pdf
[13:03] <eroomde> if youre a tv producer, highered to produce, why would you onlystart looking at something 5 days before its due to happen?
[13:04] <eroomde> especially when its a non trivial thing lime a balloon lsunch
[13:04] <Randomskk> jcoxon: exactly
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[13:04] <Randomskk> but, many of them
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[13:04] <UpuWork> well I'll leave that one to Steve :)
[13:04] <daveake> :)
[13:04] <UpuWork> Doubt Rob will have time to do it
[13:05] <UpuWork> eroomde do you speak French ?
[13:05] <gonzo_> because, when you are a manager, the problems are someone else's
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[13:05] <Laurenceb> Astrobiologist: http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/group/eodg/mphys_reports/
[13:05] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[13:05] <Laurenceb> all the stuff in there might be relevant in fact
[13:05] <daveake> SEP
[13:06] <Astrobiologist> Nice papers laurenceb , embedded linux I see, I feel a PC104gasm coming on! ;-)
[13:06] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:06] <Laurenceb> thats my masters thesis - first one
[13:06] <gonzo_> ublox6 question. When you send the 0x06-0x24 setup packet, do you get a confirmation response? Or do you have to do an empty 0x06-0x24 to interogate?
[13:07] <eroomde> UpuWork: not really
[13:07] <UpuWork> ok
[13:07] <Astrobiologist> Congrats Laurenceb! Actually I managed to get some astrobiology into my equivalent thesis at Oxford (biochem) too;-)
[13:08] <UpuWork> I'll use google translate, got a query about ublox modules I'm sure I'll work it out
[13:08] <gonzo_> was the manager-scientists and engineer joke not balloon realted?!
[13:08] <UpuWork> ok need to go onsite bbl
[13:08] <Astrobiologist> The possibility of stuff getting lofted into the stratosphere is well established, but some of the bugs seen are suspiciously non-hardy
[13:09] <Laurenceb> yeah - we were looking at dust only
[13:09] <gonzo_> bablefish is reasonable. Though can come up with some amusing results
[13:09] <Laurenceb> but you could naybe use similar technique to find bugs
[13:09] <Laurenceb> doesnt solve contamination issues
[13:09] <Astrobiologist> You need to sample a big, big volume to find bugs
[13:10] <Laurenceb> hmm
[13:10] <gonzo_> (noise floor, translated to underground voices)
[13:10] <Astrobiologist> Even on the ground it's only say 300 viable bugs per m3
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[13:10] <Laurenceb> tricky
[13:11] <gonzo_> do you usually pump air through a filter?
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[13:11] <Astrobiologist> Let's just try flying a goo-y 2m balloon and see what sticks!
[13:11] <Laurenceb> electrostatics works well for attracting particulates
[13:11] <eroomde> you want to bolt your bug collector to the intake of a sabre engine
[13:11] <Laurenceb> haha
[13:11] <eroomde> that'd get you some hign altitude cubic meters of air
[13:11] <Astrobiologist> Gonzo, I pumped air through a bubbler - a so called impinger
[13:11] <Laurenceb> maybe a "free space" electrostatic device
[13:12] <Laurenceb> with exposable sample targets
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[13:12] <Astrobiologist> Seriously, I was wondering if you could fly a electrica lducted fan from a model jet
[13:12] <Laurenceb> hmm it wouldnt work so well in thin air
[13:12] <Astrobiologist> Thanks
[13:12] <Laurenceb> and you need a way to collect
[13:12] <jdtanner> Chaps, Have you just got the email from the Channel 4 production company?
[13:12] <Laurenceb> out idea was to collect onto a metal surface as its easy to clean and examine afterwards
[13:13] <Laurenceb> -clean before, examine afterwards
[13:13] <Astrobiologist> Sounds excellent laurenceb
[13:13] <Darkside> jdtanner: its being sorted
[13:13] <Randomskk> jdtanner: well it just went to the list
[13:13] <Laurenceb> you seen the "lifter" projects?
[13:14] <Laurenceb> http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm
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[13:14] <Laurenceb> imagine something like that and you collect residue off the foil
[13:14] <jdtanner> Ok, we have a NOATM for the 28th April if that would help out.
[13:15] <Laurenceb> no atm?
[13:15] <Laurenceb> where will i get my money
[13:15] <jdtanner> ...sorry...typo...NOTAM
[13:16] <jdtanner> :)
[13:16] <eroomde> where?
[13:16] <Elmar_PD3EM_> what was the exact shift? 450 or 470?
[13:17] <Astrobiologist> So, with a drifting balloon, you could precipitate particulates over a long distance henc sampling lots of air
[13:17] <jdtanner> Eroomde: The Peak District
[13:17] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, 470
[13:17] <jcoxon> have you seen it?
[13:17] <Elmar_PD3EM_> tnx jcoxon
[13:18] <Astrobiologist> People have talked about aprs on 434
[13:18] <Laurenceb> Astrobiologist: i think you need a way to concentrate lots of particulates down onto a small surface
[13:18] <jdtanner> Upu has kindly offered his Ava board for our flight as we've not got our up and running yet.
[13:19] <Elmar_PD3EM_> not yet.... but someone in Antwerp is tuning in....
[13:19] <Astrobiologist> Laurenceb hmm.... A bubbler might still work best then
[13:20] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, cool
[13:21] <Astrobiologist> A bit like this http://www.skcinc.com/prod/225-36-1.asp
[13:21] <Laurenceb> yeah you need to pump a lot
[13:21] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: Pico still in the air, 434.202Mhz, no new data but can still be seen on the waterfall from the UK #hamr #arhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190067115863183360]
[13:21] <Elmar_PD3EM_> Nothing heard in Antwerp at the moment
[13:22] <jcoxon> okay
[13:23] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/11510_trj001.gif
[13:23] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: RX's needed @jamescoxon: Pico still in the air, 434.202Mhz, no new data but can still be seen on the waterfall from the UK #arhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/190067627132067840]
[13:24] <Darkside> nn all..
[13:24] <Elmar_PD3EM_> jcoxon: Nice track
[13:24] <schofieldau> hey jdtanner
[13:24] <Elmar_PD3EM_> nn Darkside
[13:24] <schofieldau> nigbt darkside
[13:24] <Darkside> fsphil: bug me in 10 hours or so about the SAW+LNA pcb
[13:24] <Darkside> and i'll do soemthing up
[13:24] <schofieldau> night*
[13:25] <jdtanner> Hi Schofieldau...I'm at work at the moment, but I'll drop you a message later?
[13:25] <schofieldau> yep sure :)
[13:25] <jdtanner> cool :)
[13:26] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, looking at the flight path you've got a couple of hours before it gets to the coast
[13:27] <Elmar_PD3EM_> yep.... but we need listeners up north as well later
[13:27] <jcoxon> lets get it across the first bit :-)
[13:27] <jcoxon> then we'll focus on the north
[13:28] <Elmar_PD3EM_> haha.. true
[13:29] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
[13:31] <Elmar_PD3EM_> according to the distance F5APQ received the last package it can still take some time be4 I can hear pico
[13:31] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:31] <griffonbot> @peakdarkskies: RT @PD3EM: Looking for Dutch amateurs near the coastline to track an High Altitude Balloon now! See http://t.co/DNSfxPLG #UKHAS #HAB [http://twitter.com/peakdarkskies/status/190069658186022913]
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[13:32] <Elmar_PD3EM_> PICO should now be a little NE of the green circle
[13:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Gemma Rawcliffe "Re: [UKHAS] Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
[13:37] <Laurenceb> comedy /entertainment TV series
[13:37] <Laurenceb> hmm
[13:37] <Laurenceb> they are going to laugh at us?
[13:37] <schofieldau> "nerds!"
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf4wKY8PJtg&feature=g-u-u&context=G2d77131FUAAAAAAAAAA - fun with lava (not lamps)
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[13:39] <Elmar_PD3EM_> jcoxon: only some QRM here
[13:39] <Laurenceb> jeri Ellsworth, the paris hilton of electronics
[13:39] <Elmar_PD3EM_> jcoxon: http://imgur.com/VLu7h
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[13:42] <Laurenceb> PD3EM: yeah should be heading for you
[13:42] <jcoxon> its still in the air
[13:43] <Elmar_PD3EM_> jcoxon: sent it over! you did that before :-)
[13:47] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, you've got bad qrm
[13:48] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/11/lohan_summary_update/ <- lol @ comments
[13:49] <Elmar_PD3EM_> jcoxon: but a few kc up and down the QRM is gone...
[13:50] <jcoxon> oh - i chose hte wrong frequency for you then!
[13:50] <Elmar_PD3EM_> haha... no will be ok later ;-) What's your excact dial and (dl-fldigi) cursor frequency
[13:51] <jcoxon> 434.20200
[13:51] <jcoxon> about 1000hz
[13:51] <navrac_> its gone completely here now
[13:52] <F5MVO> with CUSF predictor i can't come back in time !
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[13:52] <Elmar_PD3EM_> I'll have to wait until it shows up here
[13:52] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: Currently no trackers can hear PicoAtlas however was in stable float - expect to reach the Netherlands at around 1800 #ukhas #arhab [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190074809902837762]
[13:52] <Elmar_PD3EM_> I hope DutchMill will show up soon ;-)
[13:53] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, where is he based?
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[13:55] <F5MVO> why is not possible to make an another prediction with launch time before the curent time ?
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[13:55] <Elmar_PD3EM_> jcoxon: Near The Hague
[13:55] <jcoxon> oh right
[13:55] <Randomskk> F5MVO: the model data doesn't go back very far and it doesn't store it
[13:55] <Elmar_PD3EM_> so he is in very good position for pico
[13:56] <gonzo_> quick fldigi question, is the extracted data forwarded in a URL?
[13:56] <F5MVO> ok , i am sorry
[13:56] <Randomskk> gonzo_: what do you mean?
[13:56] <jcoxon> F5MVO, do you want it for the ongoing flight?
[13:58] <F5MVO> i want a new prediction with the launch time Pico, but is not possible !
[13:58] <jcoxon> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/12540_trj001.gif
[13:58] <gonzo_> Randomskk, just trying to understand how the data from the extracts gets forwarded to the server. Is it appended to the url eg. http://robertharrison.org/listen/xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx
[13:59] <Randomskk> well
[13:59] <Randomskk> it's a bit..
[13:59] <Randomskk> the best question I could ask is why you're interested
[13:59] <Randomskk> the direct answer is that it's either a GET or a POST to something like that, I can't remember exactly what
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[13:59] <Randomskk> but the more complicated answer is that that's the deprecated old interface which just forwards to the new interface
[14:00] <Randomskk> and test and the next versions of dl-fldigi will stop using it and start using the new interface directly
[14:00] <F5MVO> jcoxon, yes, but with CUSfF is not possible with the real time launch PICO
[14:00] <Randomskk> and the new interface is HTTP POST
[14:00] <jcoxon> F5MVO, it doesn't really work with the current flight as it is floating
[14:02] <gonzo_> ah, I was wondering how I could shove it over gprs. but I would only have a single connected TCP port to play with
[14:03] <F5MVO> jcoxon, but at this time is not possible to make a predicition with the real launch time Pico with CUSF, is damage : http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=5c3b5fa9bb81c4797d238d41af5c433f0557d6b4
[14:03] <Randomskk> gonzo_: from what/to what?
[14:06] <jcoxon> F5MVO, http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4438f188fd5aec0e2ce6e20318aa5108ef70c351
[14:07] <gonzo_> just wanted to understand what data flows. Poss to extract the rtty from an existing terminal unit and send that over a gprs modem
[14:07] <gonzo_> without a PC being involved
[14:07] <F5MVO> jcoxon, yes, but you enter 14h47 utc and not possible real time launch, is damage
[14:08] <Randomskk> gonzo_: well to get into the database in the end there's an HTTP POST to the db
[14:08] <Randomskk> you could easily make a thing that your GPRS modem sent telemetry to that itself uploaded to the database
[14:10] <jcoxon> F5MVO, it'll be close
[14:10] <gonzo_> ok thanks. Needs more thought then. As I have negative amounts of PC programming skills
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[14:11] <Randomskk> gonzo_: equally we can probably hook something up easily
[14:11] <Randomskk> depends how the data is coming off atm
[14:13] <gonzo_> well just idly throwing ideas about at the moment. No definite plan for anythuing just yet. Ta for the info
[14:13] <kokey> could construct a cheap POST to TCP port 80
[14:13] <F5MVO> jcoxon, see you later, bye bye
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[14:17] <jcoxon> coming up to 2 hours of no data :-(
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> :/
[14:18] <kokey> bad weather?
[14:18] <Elmar_PD3EM_> it should be in range of DutchMill by now but he's not there....
[14:20] <jcoxon> fingers crossed
[14:21] <jcoxon> if it doesn't appear again its not that bad
[14:21] <jcoxon> we have shown again that we can float these balloons
[14:23] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, anything on the waterfall yet?
[14:24] <Elmar_PD3EM_> no.... still nothing. I need that tower and 27 elem stack :-)
[14:24] <jcoxon> yes!
[14:25] <jcoxon> dutch-mill!
[14:25] <Elmar_PD3EM_> GREAT!!!!
[14:25] <SamSilver> da man
[14:25] <jcoxon> the question is whether there is still a signal...
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[14:26] <jcoxon> hi PD1AKL
[14:27] <Elmar_PD3EM_> welcome PD1AKL
[14:28] <PD1AKL> Hi Elmar. I noticed your Tweet. Unfortunately I'm still in the office so no receiver in here.
[14:28] <Elmar_PD3EM_> ok Randy.... Hope later today when it's still floating
[14:29] <Elmar_PD3EM_> it should be east to The Hague by now? or not jcoxon ?
[14:29] <jcoxon> i think it should be approaching the hague
[14:30] <jcoxon> not sure it would have made it
[14:30] <jcoxon> looking at the hysplit prediction
[14:30] Action: jcoxon is tense
[14:31] <jcoxon> just need someone to confirm they can hear it...
[14:32] <Elmar_PD3EM_> sometimes I think I hear some rtty but nothing on the waterfall... and after an rtty contest you can still hear it while the rig is off ;-)
[14:32] <jcoxon> yes, very true
[14:32] <Randomskk> I hear rtty in almost all white noise now ._.
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[14:34] <Elmar_PD3EM_> LOL... you need a break Randomskk ;-)
[14:34] <Randomskk> :P
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[14:35] <Elmar_PD3EM_> some bad wx between me and pico http://www.buienradar.nl/h.aspx?soort=1x1&jaar=2012&maand=04&dag=11&uur=16&minuut=25&bliksem=1
[14:36] <kokey> perhaps it's not noise, perhaps it's high bitrate intermodulated rtty
[14:38] <F6AGV_> PICO is inside a cloud !
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[14:42] <kokey> so my bad weather question wasn't so silly after all
[14:42] <F6AGV_> Normally PICO horizon is about 275 km
[14:42] <jcoxon> F6AGV_, not today though, something must have been damaged
[14:42] <kokey> what type or rtty is being used?
[14:42] <jcoxon> currently it would be rtty
[14:43] <F6AGV_> Yes James very sorry
[14:43] <Elmar_PD3EM_> 50 baud 8N2 450 Hz
[14:43] <Elmar_PD3EM_> 470 Hz
[14:43] <kokey> ah, 8N2, was wondering about that
[14:44] <jcoxon> F6AGV_, the good news is that it floated
[14:44] <kokey> is 8N2 the usual?
[14:44] <F6AGV_> yes altitude is rather constant
[14:44] <r2x0t> it should be near Dutch-Mill by now
[14:45] <Elmar_PD3EM_> mostly 8N2, exact mode is in the announcements
[14:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Martin Bud "RE: [UKHAS] Weather balloon filming for Channel 4 programme"
[14:47] <F6AGV_> frequency is around 434.203 ?
[14:48] <jcoxon> yes
[14:48] <jcoxon> 434.202 was last heard
[14:49] <jcoxon> anything Elmar_PD3EM?
[14:49] <Elmar_PD3EM_> no :-(
[14:49] <jcoxon> maybe it is lost
[14:49] <Elmar_PD3EM_> was hoping for DutchMil
[14:51] <F6AGV_> James I think PICO range is 50 km ?
[14:52] <kokey> didn't the last picosomething also go missing for quite a while?
[14:52] <r2x0t> last pico crashlanded shortly after launch
[14:52] <jcoxon> F6AGV_, probably about that
[14:54] <F6AGV_> I hope than PICO is not out of the reach for Elmar
[14:55] <Elmar_PD3EM_> I hope it will get into my range F6AGV_
[14:56] <F6AGV_> Yes i hope so
[14:56] <navrac_> dutch mill has appeared on the tracker
[14:57] <Elmar_PD3EM_> yep, but no packet decoded yet.... we'll have to wait until he shows up here
[14:57] <navrac_> its a good sign though
[14:58] <navrac_> I'm going to go and make a coffee- things always happen when i'm afk
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[15:00] <F6AGV_> It's time to tea here, lol
[15:01] Action: PD1AKL has left the office. 5PM it is...
[15:01] <Elmar_PD3EM_> hope you can receive it later at home PD1AKL
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[15:02] <PD1AKL> Nothing on the portable yet, but I'm in the centre of Amsterdam (dam square) with much high buildings around me.
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[15:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi, what happend to the pico ?
[15:11] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, its got a reduced radio range
[15:12] <jcoxon> but last time it was heard it was in a stable float
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[15:12] <jcoxon> if its still flying it should be approaching the netherlands
[15:12] <jcoxon> we are just waiting for confirmation
[15:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> jcoxon ok but i see it havent been heard for hours :(
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[15:12] <jcoxon> yeah but no one in in range
[15:13] <Elmar_PD3EM_> although it's strange that DutchMill hasn't heard it yet
[15:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> it is VERY weak since the french and dutch cant hear it?
[15:13] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, yes, something is wrong with it
[15:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh what a shame
[15:14] <navrac_> it is very weak indeed -but until 2:30 BST I could see it on the sdr - but far too weak to decode
[15:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok i see, i got some c*** on 434.202 so not easy to monitor that freq here
[15:15] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/12540_trj001.gif
[15:15] <jcoxon> if it continues to float i'll reach denmark tomorrow
[15:15] <jcoxon> it'll*
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> Is it solary?
[15:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> jcoxon ill keep monitoring for it
[15:16] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, no, 2xAAA
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[15:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> what was the last freq 202.?
[15:16] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, if no one hears it from the netherlands i doubt its still alive
[15:16] <jcoxon> yes
[15:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> R
[15:16] <jcoxon> 434.2021
[15:16] <jcoxon> fingers crossed
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[15:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes inded
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[15:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no trace of it Elmar_PD3EM?
[15:23] <Elmar_PD3EM_> no....
[15:23] <Upu> well tried from here but I might be being a little optimistic
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[15:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu yes your well outside the footprint
[15:26] <Upu> indeed
[15:27] <Upu> jcoxon in u-center how do I switch a GPS to flight mode and see the command it issues ?
[15:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i got a FM rig in the car, so ill keep it on 434.200 tomorrow on the job.
[15:27] <Futurity> Hi, I see that its been a while since PicoAtlas position was updated. Out of range, or other problems?
[15:27] <Upu> signal was a little weak
[15:28] <r2x0t> if it's so weak it's hard to decode it even using SSB receiver, I don't think you will hear anything on FM
[15:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> r2x0t maybe maybe not. its a dual vfo radio, so ill just set the sub vfo on it.
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[15:34] <SpeedEvil> EEEk.
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> Thundera
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> s/a//
[15:35] Action: SpeedEvil goes on battery.
[15:35] <jcoxon> Upu, its in messages
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> Boom!
[15:36] <Upu> oh I see it
[15:36] <Upu> thx
[15:36] <Upu> ta
[15:36] <russss> hmm blue skies here
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning;sess= - though that's too far north
[15:38] <russss> http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?lang=en&page=1
[15:38] <jcoxon> anything Elmar_PD3EM_ ?
[15:38] <russss> some in norfolk and some just south of london
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[15:39] <Elmar_PD3EM_> still nothing.....
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> It's pretty much bang on - the one in the middle of fife.
[15:39] <jcoxon> dutch-mill hasn't been on for over an hour
[15:39] <russss> ah right
[15:39] <jcoxon> so not sure if he is listening
[15:40] <russss> blitzortung is cool
[15:40] <russss> they have plans to build your own lightning detector and hook it up to their system
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[15:40] <SpeedEvil> Neat
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> _lots_ of hail.
[15:40] <russss> http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?lang=en&page=2
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[15:46] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't manage to count one second between flash and bang
[15:47] <Elmar_PD3EM_> as long as the bang doesn't come before the flash....
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[15:51] <Elmar_PD3EM_> we've got a new listener on the map (from KNMI) but I'm afraid also out of range...
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[15:53] <jcoxon> can't hear anything?
[15:53] <kokey> apart from noise
[15:53] <Elmar_PD3EM_> nope....
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[15:55] <jcoxon> i suspect it has gone
[15:56] <Elmar_PD3EM_> it looks like there's another beacon drawing a single line on the scope on 434.202. Most of the time a continuous line with a short interuption sometimes. Might be cw in between
[15:57] <jcoxon> is it every 10 seconds?
[15:57] <Upu> given it was heading straight for Brian what estimated time was it until it got there ?
[15:57] <jcoxon> 24hrs
[15:57] <Elmar_PD3EM_> no.. longer lines very hard to hear
[15:57] <jcoxon> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/12540_trj001.gif
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[15:58] <Upu> that long ?
[15:58] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:58] <Upu> it seemed to be going quite quick
[15:58] <jcoxon> according to hysplit
[15:58] <jcoxon> thats the thing
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[15:58] <Upu> fair enough
[15:59] <jcoxon> hysplit is meant to be very accurate
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[15:59] <cuddykid> jcoxon: how do I go about changing output power of rfm? looked on the wiki and couldn't find anything
[15:59] <jcoxon> its certainly good at paths
[15:59] <jcoxon> cuddykid, the datasheet...
[15:59] <cuddykid> cheers
[15:59] <cuddykid> :P
[15:59] <Elmar_PD3EM_> maybe it can be heard by PD1AKL around 18 UTC
[15:59] <Upu> coded RTFM in there :)
[16:00] <navrac_> daveake already takes the p*ss out of me cos i know the registers on the rfm by heart
[16:01] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: anyone hear PicoAtlas - 434.202Mhz RTTY? #hamr #ukhas #arhab should be near the Netherlands [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190107273459286016]
[16:02] <cuddykid> navrac_:register 6Dh for Tx power?
[16:03] <f6agv> hear the signal at 18h00 local time but too weak to receive RTTY frames
[16:04] <jcoxon> f6agv, really!
[16:04] <jcoxon> can we have a screenshot
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[16:06] <phuzion> anyone know of a solid, but extremely lightweight APRS transceiver that I can send up in a balloon? High power isn't necessary, just lightweight and small form factor (<1 lb would be preferred, pre-battery)
[16:07] <Upu> 1lb !
[16:07] <Upu> No in the UK phuzion ?
[16:07] <Upu> Not
[16:07] <phuzion> Upu: USA
[16:08] <Upu> ok I don't know of any but fsphil/nigeyuk are developing one that will probably be 150g max with batteries probably less
[16:08] <Upu> has RTTY xmitter on too
[16:08] <phuzion> ooh
[16:09] <f6agv> james see on my blog
[16:09] <phuzion> what is the intended output power, do you know?
[16:09] <jcoxon> f6agv, oooo
[16:09] <fsphil> yea and there's an HX1 module for the US APRS frequency too
[16:09] <Upu> 300mW
[16:09] <Upu> 10mW RTTY
[16:09] <jcoxon> f6agv, have you always heard the signal?
[16:09] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203ProjectSwift#5721675631478542802
[16:09] <Upu> and
[16:09] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203ProjectSwift#5721675666675961794
[16:10] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.co.uk/
[16:10] <f6agv> james see 40 degres from CALAIS that's the PICO direction
[16:10] <fsphil> I keep thinking this is tuesday
[16:10] <jcoxon> f6agv, have you tried to make hte filter smaller?
[16:10] <cuddykid> could someone confirm if I wanted to set power to 8dBm I would send.. radio.write(0x6D,0x03)? as txpow[2:0] for +8dBm = 011
[16:10] <f6agv> YES I hear the signal but very weak
[16:11] <jcoxon> f6agv, Excellemt
[16:11] <phuzion> Also, does anyone know where I can get one of the tv tuners these days? It seems like everyone and their brother bought one and gobbled up all the supply worldwide
[16:11] <jcoxon> f6agv, could you record a little bit for me
[16:11] <f6agv> yes filter don't better result
[16:11] <Elmar_PD3EM_> what's your dial and offset f6agv?
[16:11] <f6agv> yes i'm trying to record
[16:12] <f6agv> wait
[16:12] <f6agv> 434.203379
[16:13] <f6agv> 1100 Hz up and 640 down
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[16:15] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: signal heard by @f6agv on 434.203379Mhz, bearing of 40 deg from Calais, France #ukhas #arhab [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/190110870951575552]
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[16:16] <f6agv> record on tape
[16:17] <f6agv> 434.203379 USB center 1100 and 640 Hz shift 470 Hz
[16:17] <griffonbot> @sbasuita: RT @jamescoxon: anyone hear PicoAtlas - 434.202Mhz RTTY? #hamr #ukhas #arhab should be near the Netherlands [http://twitter.com/sbasuita/status/190111420862578688]
[16:18] <Elmar_PD3EM_> f6agv a very faint line but way to weak
[16:19] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, but a signal?
[16:19] <Elmar_PD3EM_> looks like abt 500 Hz shift
[16:19] <jcoxon> 470 is about right
[16:19] <f6agv> 470 Hz shift
[16:19] <Elmar_PD3EM_> with some reflections on the lower line
[16:19] <jcoxon> should be about 15 seconds lone
[16:19] <jcoxon> long*
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[16:20] <jcoxon> then a carrier for 1 second
[16:20] <f6agv> jack tu reçois quelque chose toi ? 434.203379 USB
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[16:21] <fsphil> oh, it's still up?
[16:21] <jcoxon> fsphil, f6agv has a signal, to weak for decode
[16:21] <f6agv> FINISH for me except 1 sec carrier
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[16:21] <fsphil> ack
[16:22] <jcoxon> f6agv, it means it must still be in the air
[16:22] <F5APQ> F6AGV i'm just back home, nothing heard
[16:22] <jcoxon> if it had descended you wouldn't of ever heard it
[16:22] <Elmar_PD3EM_> http://i.imgur.com/RMx3u.jpg
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[16:22] <f6agv> Jack tu te mets sur 434.203379 1100 et 640 Hz
[16:23] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, i think i can see it - just off to the right of your lines
[16:23] <Upu> yup
[16:23] <Upu> I see that
[16:23] <Upu> turn your input down a little
[16:23] <Upu> a very little
[16:23] <jcoxon> 700hz and 1200hz
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[16:24] <Elmar_PD3EM_> that's why I moved the lines a little bit away from the signal
[16:24] <jcoxon> thats excellent news
[16:24] <jcoxon> no reason for someone to have an identical 470hz shift signal
[16:25] <fsphil> is it switching on/off as expected though?
[16:25] <Upu> these Sarantel antenna boards are so quick to get lock
[16:25] <fsphil> they seem too narrow
[16:25] <Upu> 30sec from cold inside
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[16:25] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESD-Anti-static-Caution-Stickers-Paper-50mm-x-50mm-UK-/220723988361?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item33642cc789
[16:26] <Upu> what is it with all this overpriced guff on e-bay at the moment
[16:27] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, possible to get a bearing of that signal?
[16:28] <Elmar_PD3EM_> jcoxon: no.... only have a vertical here at the moment :-(
[16:30] <eroomde> Randomskk or jonsowman
[16:30] <eroomde> ping ping
[16:30] <eroomde> pongelydong dong
[16:31] <nigelvh> Someone's antsy.
[16:31] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
[16:31] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM_, will you keep an eye on that signal though
[16:31] <jcoxon> it might get stronger
[16:32] <Elmar_PD3EM_> i will stick on it while running between the shack and the kitchen ;-)
[16:33] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:33] <jcoxon> if you are busy don't worry!
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[16:34] <Elmar_PD3EM_> not busy but a little hungry
[16:34] <Elmar_PD3EM_> There's the man we need!
[16:34] <Dutch-Mill> Saw just the tweets
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[16:35] <jonsowman> eroomde: around? it's like when someone phones you, you miss the call & you call back immediately, then they don't pick up
[16:35] <Elmar_PD3EM_> hope you can copy pico Dutch-Mill
[16:35] <Dutch-Mill> a weak signal @ 434.196?
[16:35] <eroomde> sorry yes
[16:35] <eroomde> i am quite guilty of that
[16:36] <eroomde> the problem with remote irc
[16:36] <eroomde> no bong
[16:36] <eroomde> i was wondering if the ~2 day turnaround pcb service is still good
[16:36] <jcoxon> 434.203
[16:36] <jcoxon> rtty, 50baud, 470hz shift
[16:36] <navrac_> it was drifting quite a lot - aqnd i cant be 100% sure of my receivrs calibration
[16:37] <eroomde> jonsowman ^
[16:37] <eroomde> :)
[16:37] <jonsowman> eroomde: cambridge circuit seem to be happy to try and help out with requirements
[16:37] <Dutch-Mill> .....wait fire up the Yagi
[16:37] <eroomde> cool
[16:37] <eroomde> thanks
[16:37] <jonsowman> they did wombat in a day and a bit or something
[16:37] <jcoxon> navrac http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.co.uk/ and http://i.imgur.com/RMx3u.jpg
[16:37] <jonsowman> shall i email them and ask?
[16:37] <jonsowman> or do you want the guy's email address?
[16:37] <jonsowman> either's fine
[16:38] <f6agv> james signal is 16 sec between each frames
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[16:40] <eroomde> jonsowman: if you could
[16:40] <navrac_> so if google translaet works ' the signal was still audible at 6 local time but not decodable
[16:40] <eroomde> maybe get something sent in on monday
[16:40] <eroomde> 40 x 25mm i think but i'd have to confirm
[16:40] <eroomde> 2 layer
[16:40] <jcoxon> yup
[16:40] <eroomde> wee
[16:40] <Matt_soton> eroomde: always spirit if you dont want/need a silk screen
[16:40] <jonsowman> eroomde: no problem, should get 8 on a panel
[16:40] <eroomde> plendido
[16:40] <eroomde> ok thanks
[16:40] <eroomde> splendido*
[16:41] <jonsowman> eroomde: what finish/mask colour do you want?
[16:41] <eroomde> don't care really
[16:41] <eroomde> red?
[16:41] <jonsowman> ok, HASL?
[16:41] <eroomde> whatever's easiest though
[16:41] <eroomde> hasl is fine
[16:41] <jonsowman> he said black is harder than the rest, but otherwise didn't seem to care
[16:41] <eroomde> ok cool
[16:42] <eroomde> let's go with red then for fun
[16:42] <jonsowman> emailing now, will cc you
[16:42] <f6agv> http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.fr/2012/04/ballon-picoatlas-de-cambridge-le-11.html
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[16:43] <number10> Upu - got qsl card yesterday, and bits today - thanks
[16:43] <navrac_> yeah so did i - most appreciated
[16:43] <Upu> no problems glad it all got there sorry about the delay
[16:43] <Dutch-Mill> jcoxon : .... nothing here yet
[16:44] <Matt_soton> btw what would people advise using for gluing polystrene?
[16:44] <jcoxon> Dutch-Mill, oh :(
[16:44] <Matt_soton> or just 'keeping two bits together at right angles'
[16:44] <jcoxon> nothing at all?
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[16:46] <Dutch-Mill> Yep ....was'nt @home this afternoon....
[16:46] <jcoxon> oh well
[16:47] <eroomde> thanks jonsowman
[16:47] <Dutch-Mill> Dit you try Dokkum DX @globaltuners ?
[16:47] <Dutch-Mill> Did
[16:47] <jonsowman> eroomde: no worries
[16:47] <Elmar_PD3EM_> be back soon. Dinner first ;-)
[16:48] <jonsowman> eroomde: i assume this is hedgehog v2?
[16:48] <jcoxon> Dutch-Mill, its not online
[16:50] <eroomde> jonsowman: nope
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[16:50] <eroomde> timing thing v1
[16:50] <eroomde> simpler
[16:50] <eroomde> for pyro sequencing
[16:50] <jonsowman> cool
[16:50] <eroomde> i think hedgehog v1 will be flying unless it's same difference to him to do another spin
[16:50] <jonsowman> :)
[16:51] <eroomde> i which case i will get v2 prepped too
[16:51] <jonsowman> how big is hedgehog?
[16:51] <eroomde> won't take long to fix all the niggles in v1
[16:51] <Randomskk> depending on how many timing boards you could get both made up on this panel
[16:51] <jonsowman> you could get 4 of each onto one panel
[16:51] <eroomde> niggles i have so far discovered, i should say
[16:51] <eroomde> ok
[16:51] <eroomde> what size is the panel?
[16:51] <jonsowman> Randomskk: do you have any acetates around? joey's are in cambridge
[16:52] <Randomskk> rough guess, 8"x10"?
[16:52] <Randomskk> nah mine are all cambridge too
[16:52] <jonsowman> it's bigger than A5 but smaller than A4
[16:52] <priyesh> if it's the same size as Apex's panel, it's 9"x12"
[16:52] <jcoxon> thanks for listening out Dutch-Mill
[16:52] <Randomskk> 9" by 12" sounds entirely plausible
[16:53] <jonsowman> sounds about right priyesh
[16:53] <jonsowman> ta
[16:53] <priyesh> (this is from CCC too)
[16:53] <eroomde> ok i will try and do hedgehog v0.2
[16:53] <eroomde> i really bloody wish i wasn't driving for 12hrs tomorrow
[16:53] <eroomde> it leaves me dead to the workd after to do work
[16:53] <eroomde> and also i could do it if i was a passenger in someone else's car tomottow
[16:53] <jonsowman> where are you off to?
[16:54] <Randomskk> france or something?
[16:54] <Randomskk> roped in to driving?
[16:54] <eroomde> i am in france now
[16:54] <eroomde> i am coming back tomorrow
[16:54] <jonsowman> ah
[16:54] <jonsowman> :)
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[16:55] <f6agv> Bye 73 Alan
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[16:56] <Dutch-Mill> I'm sorry james no signal out here... -((
[16:57] <Morseman> Home again...
[16:58] <Morseman> 10M was open this afternoon - a good day for a 27MHz balloon launch :-)
[17:00] <Matt_soton> hf launch in a week or so perhaps :)
[17:01] <jcoxon> Dutch-Mill, nevermind
[17:01] <Brian_DK> thats just typical, finaly a ballon comming this way and then a show stopper :-(
[17:01] <jcoxon> if only it was a stronger signal
[17:01] <jcoxon> Brian_DK, don't worry i've got 2 more balloons and spare helium
[17:01] <jcoxon> i'll get it there soon
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[17:03] <Brian_DK> sounds great
[17:05] <jcoxon> if Elmar_PD3EM_ doesn't have the signal any longer we'll call it a day
[17:05] <Elmar_PD3EM_> hard to say but sometimes still very faint lines on the waterfall
[17:06] <Brian_DK> 450hz shift?
[17:06] <Elmar_PD3EM_> i'll keep an eye on it
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[17:06] <Elmar_PD3EM_> 470 but looks more to 500 Hz now
[17:07] <Brian_DK> never seen the shift rise
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[17:07] <Elmar_PD3EM_> or we're looking at something else
[17:08] <Elmar_PD3EM_> how hard to determine if i hear rtty in the noise...
[17:10] <jcoxon> okay
[17:10] <jcoxon> lets call it a day
[17:10] <jcoxon> thanks for listening out
[17:10] <jcoxon> we'll try this again soon with a stronger signal!
[17:10] <Morseman> Sorry I missed the launch - Just back from site survey at Stockton-On-Tees
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[17:12] <i20660772> Excellent flight!
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[17:16] <x-f> it was interesting
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[17:20] <x-f> like watching spacecrafts re-entry - will they contact again or not
[17:21] <Brian_DK> jcoxon was it weak at launch or did that happen later?
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[17:21] Nick change: Brian_DK -> OZ1SKY_Brian
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[17:34] <i20660772> Who's flying next?
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[17:42] <Astrobiol> Test from my Blackberry
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[18:00] <F5MVO> good evening
[18:02] <F5MVO> no news from Pico ?
[18:03] <Elmar_PD3EM_> nothing F5MVO
[18:03] <F5MVO> Elmar_PD3EM_, hello
[18:04] <Elmar_PD3EM_> hi
[18:04] <F5MVO> its very to follow it !
[18:04] <F5MVO> its very hard to follow it !
[18:04] <r2x0t> it was seen on spectrum about 2 hours ago
[18:05] <r2x0t> but it's weird that was still from France
[18:05] <Elmar_PD3EM_> indeed.... saw some very thin lines but checking again if I see something
[18:05] <r2x0t> if wind prediction is right, it should be much more nothern
[18:06] <Elmar_PD3EM_> yep... we sent it over to OZ1SKY_Brian ;-)
[18:06] <r2x0t> but guys from Neederlands heard nothing
[18:06] <r2x0t> this is suspicious
[18:06] <Elmar_PD3EM_> strange.....
[18:06] <Elmar_PD3EM_> I've had some thunderstorms between me and pico
[18:07] <F5MVO> problem of radio range
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[18:07] <r2x0t> Dutch-Mill have in info 10el Yagi
[18:07] <Elmar_PD3EM_> yep, and I need a tower and a stack of beams ;-)
[18:07] <r2x0t> that should be enough for weak signal
[18:08] <Elmar_PD3EM_> should indeed be enough
[18:08] <r2x0t> still, they said not even trace on fft
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[18:09] <Elmar_PD3EM_> signal was weaker as normal according to jc
[18:09] <r2x0t> yes, much weaker
[18:10] <r2x0t> you can see it on tracker... F5APQ was only one tracking it
[18:10] <Elmar_PD3EM_> maybe antenna or radio problem
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[18:10] <r2x0t> possible, but still it should be at least detectable
[18:11] <Dutch-Mill-mob> Hi all Got Pico @434.203.48 very weak
[18:11] <Elmar_PD3EM_> good news Dutch-Mill-mob
[18:11] <r2x0t> cool!
[18:12] <r2x0t> it should be in SlowFeld mode now
[18:12] <r2x0t> *hell
[18:12] <Dutch-Mill-mob> Can't decode but sounds like rtty for me
[18:13] <Elmar_PD3EM_> you drove out for it Dutch-Mill-mob ?
[18:13] <r2x0t> From UKHAS email:
[18:13] <r2x0t> Hopefully the payload will last for about 24hrs, between the hours of
[18:13] <r2x0t> 0700UTC and 1800UTC it'll transmit RTTY 50 baud, 450shift, no parity,
[18:13] <r2x0t> 2 stop continuously. Outside these hours it'll transmit a slow-hell
[18:13] <r2x0t> string every 5 minutes and in between these strings it'll send a 0.5s
[18:13] <r2x0t> tone on the same freq every 10 seconds.
[18:13] <r2x0t> -
[18:13] <Dutch-Mill-mob> Yep almost on the beach @Monster
[18:14] <Elmar_PD3EM_> Dutch-Mill-mob: Great!!!
[18:14] <Elmar_PD3EM_> Dutch-Mill-mob: Should be north of you, according to the predictions
[18:18] Nick change: Elmar_PD3EM_ -> Elmar_PD3EM
[18:19] <Dutch-Mill-mob> If Pico is in the air.. it's way up north
[18:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> gonna switch to another antenna....
[18:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> signal is weaker that it normally should be
[18:20] <Dutch-Mill-mob> Point to Den Helder ...
[18:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> thats a few degrees east of North
[18:22] <F5MVO> F5APQ loss Pico at about 90kms from him
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[18:23] <F5MVO> with 21elements + pream
[18:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> Dutch-Mill-mob: what kind of signal are you receiving?
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[18:26] <Dutch-Mill-mob> Lost the signal First rtty then Hell..
[18:28] <Elmar_PD3EM> it means that pico was still alive a few minutes ago
[18:28] <Dutch-Mill-mob> Im moving a few cliks North
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[18:28] <F5MVO> since 1800 utc slow-hell ?
[18:29] <r2x0t> yes, that was the plan
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[18:29] <Dutch-Mill-mob> I'm almost certan to hear Rtty
[18:29] <F5MVO> Otherwise slow-hell every 5 minutes with 0.5s tones every 10 seconds.
[18:31] <r2x0t> no mode switch would mean it have no GPS time? weird
[18:31] <r2x0t> or you are hearing something else :)
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[18:32] <Dutch-Mill-mob> ..kinda rtty kremlins in my head ? ;-)
[18:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha...
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[18:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> I have that after a rtty contest and the rig is switches off... still hearing rtty then
[18:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Dutch-Mill-mob what was that, did you rx it in dir north?
[18:35] <Dutch-Mill-mob> Driving up a few miles..and go back to base if no rx
[18:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> What dir did you point the ant and elevation?
[18:36] <Dutch-Mill-mob> NortEast
[18:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> NE from The Hauge?
[18:37] <r2x0t> you said Den Helder direction... so that's ~25deg
[18:38] <r2x0t> ...typo 15deg
[18:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> need one with EME system to track it :-)
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[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> whoa, rather good image of another star: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17675163
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[18:42] <Elmar_PD3EM> OZ1SKY_Brian: I need to borrow the 4x21elem stack that is in storage from our local club ;-)
[18:42] <eroomde> what's the name of the scottish sparkfun reseller?
[18:42] <eroomde> not coolcomponents but cheapr
[18:43] <fsphil-laptop> proto-pic?
[18:43] <jonsowman> didn't know they were scottish
[18:43] <eroomde> that's the one
[18:43] <eroomde> thanks
[18:44] <eroomde> google fr failsed hopelessly when i searched for protopic
[18:44] <eroomde> so i thought i'd misremebered
[18:44] <jonsowman> yeah
[18:44] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha... protopic is some sort of medicine ;-)
[18:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Elmar_PD3EM yes go get it :-)
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[18:49] <Elmar_PD3EM> OZ1SKY_Brian: Need a big tower as well to rotate and elevate it...
[18:49] <Astrobiol> Can I ask a naïve question about transmitter fundamentals?
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[18:50] <Randomskk> just for getting the diaeresis right, yes
[18:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Astrobiol sure you can ask
[18:51] <Astrobiol> Is that the two dots above the I in naïve? 'Cos I have to admit, that was my blackberry
[18:52] <fsphil-laptop> hehe, never even noticed that
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[18:52] <Astrobiol> Is there any reason 868 is twice 434, and if so can you make a transmitter that does both just by doubling an oscillator frequency?
[18:53] <eroomde> maths and yes
[18:53] <fsphil-laptop> ye ol' harmonics
[18:53] <eroomde> you can use something called a phase locked loop to do interger multiples and divisions of frequencies
[18:53] <eroomde> it's often just abbreviated to PLL
[18:54] <Astrobiol> So why did the chose 434 and 868 as airborne legal frequencies?
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[18:54] <Randomskk> you can also do other nasty things to multiply
[18:54] <Randomskk> like run it through something non linear and filter off and amplify harmonics
[18:55] <eroomde> they might pic those frequencies to make it easy for super cheap things
[18:55] <eroomde> using standard cheap crystals in easy-to-manufacture frequencies as the basis of the transmitters
[18:55] <Randomskk> same way that a lot of the HF frequencies are straight multiples
[18:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Astrobiol about the airborne i dont know, but the freq is bacause it was a limited range, mostly like of sight with 10mW
[18:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> like-line
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[18:57] <eroomde> oh yes specifically for airborne i have no idea
[18:57] <eroomde> there's a whole range of stuff around 440mhz that can be license free
[18:57] <eroomde> not sure the criteria for airborne within that
[18:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> best is to use a european licens free freq and one commonly found in a ssb rig. 868 will limit the amount of trackers enormously.
[19:00] <eroomde> Randomskk: was gonnayes 868 is up beyond where amateurs bother with usually
[19:00] <eroomde> appart from microwavers which is a very small subset
[19:00] <eroomde> and mainly interested in 1.3GHz+
[19:01] <Astrobiol> ... Which isn't airborne legal until 2.4 ghz and then only 100mW
[19:02] <eroomde> and you get very large path loss penalties that high
[19:02] <eroomde> and also 2.4 specifically is absorbed by water
[19:02] <r2x0t> yes, but also you can use high gain dish on ground
[19:02] <eroomde> which is why it's used by so many wireless systems, as it is necessarily short range
[19:02] <Randomskk> very handy for food, that
[19:03] <r2x0t> 2.4GHz beacon is something I would like to try
[19:03] <r2x0t> same for 868
[19:03] <Astrobiol> So how hard would it be to make a crude transmitter that sends on both 434 and 868?
[19:03] <Randomskk> how much spectrum is available at 2.4GHz for airborne wireless?
[19:03] <Randomskk> Astrobiol: way hard
[19:03] <r2x0t> it's easier to just get two rfm22B transmitters
[19:03] <Randomskk> much easier to just run two transmitters
[19:04] <r2x0t> one for 434 and one 868
[19:04] <Randomskk> or any other radio, you don't have to have an rfm22b fetish
[19:04] <r2x0t> heh
[19:04] <r2x0t> just it's easy to get and cheap... that's all
[19:05] <Dutch-Mill> OZ1SKY_Brain : Hi
[19:05] <Astrobiol> Where can I look for that model please?
[19:05] <eroomde> ntx2 lovr me
[19:05] <eroomde> Astrobiol: given your love of C i think you might be happier with a radiometrix ntx2
[19:06] <r2x0t> Astrobiol: just google it...
[19:06] <eroomde> the rfm22b requires a bit of set up via its digital pins
[19:06] <r2x0t> main difference is that ntx2 is just FM modulator
[19:06] <eroomde> the ntx2 you just need =V, 0V and then there's a pin you put a voltage on to makea tone, the freq is proportional to the voltage
[19:07] <eroomde> +V not =V sorry
[19:07] <r2x0t> while rfm is digital modulator so you set I2C registers, then put data into FIFO buffers etc.
[19:07] <Randomskk> FM modulator?
[19:07] <Randomskk> :P
[19:08] <Astrobiol> How do you set the transmit frequencies on those?
[19:08] <r2x0t> with ntx2 you make FSK shift by using various resistor values on two pins
[19:08] <Randomskk> or a DAC or PWM or whtaever
[19:08] <r2x0t> yes
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[19:08] <Dutch-Mill> OZ1SKY_Brain : CQ OZ1SKY_Brain point your antenna to Den Helder / Den Oever (NL) @434.20348 for PICO?
[19:08] <Randomskk> however you can't change the transmit frequency
[19:08] <r2x0t> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[19:08] <r2x0t> this is how to interface ntx2
[19:10] <Elmar_PD3EM> you can chance freq a bit on ntx2 if use two variable resistors instead of the 4k7 and 22k resistors http://yfrog.com/oex3vacj
[19:11] <Randomskk> true but only by a few khz
[19:11] <eroomde> yeah the ntx2 in theory gives you a 20khz playpen
[19:11] <jonsowman> eroomde: isn't it 12.5kHz
[19:11] <jonsowman> narrowband FM
[19:11] <eroomde> maybe that's what they tell the licensing authority
[19:12] <jonsowman> haha ok
[19:13] <Astrobiol> Thanks guys
[19:14] <eroomde> but yes i do think it gets a bit messy at the extremes
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[19:15] <eroomde> i get it
[19:15] <eroomde> astrobi-ol
[19:16] <eroomde> another good pun
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[19:16] <eroomde> i should peyer more attention
[19:16] <jonsowman> :|
[19:17] <navrac> just got ozzie back - 5cm tear in the balloon
[19:18] <jonsowman> nice one :)
[19:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> great you got it back navrac!
[19:18] <navrac> yep - now lots of tlc and it will be flying again
[19:19] <navrac> battery just about dead - can get it to boot in sunlight from the solar cells though - but dies as the gps tries to get lock
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[19:20] <daveake> good news :)
[19:20] <navrac> just held it by a 300w lamp - sends rtty!
[19:21] <navrac> i'd like to compare your rip with mine daveake
[19:21] <daveake> You saw mine?
[19:22] <navrac> think you sent a picture - or was that someone else
[19:22] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/P1040115-1024x682.jpg
[19:22] <navrac> I dont think it can be a pressure tear - it only got to 1000m and it was pretty floppy when it launched
[19:24] <navrac> mines more a split than a flap- i think it might have been speared by its own aerial
[19:24] <daveake> sounds likely
[19:25] <daveake> This was right at the top of the balloon
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[19:26] <navrac> mines at the bottom - it must have ripped fairly early on - the helium in the top of the balloon would mean it came down gently
[19:27] <navrac> the people who recovered it are home educating their children - seems i will now be giving a talk on habbing to them and their friends etc
[19:28] <daveake> :)
[19:29] <eroomde> that food historian with the speech defect is on bbc again atm
[19:29] <eroomde> 'we're making a cake with the most expensive spice in the world - safwon'
[19:29] <daveake> lol
[19:29] <daveake> in safwon waldon
[19:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> a Q abt the ds18B20 temp sensor....
[19:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> what was needed to connect to an Arduino? 4k7 resistor?
[19:30] <navrac> yep
[19:30] <daveake> Yep
[19:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> thats all...
[19:30] <navrac> YEp
[19:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> ok thanks
[19:32] <daveake> Just needs 1 data line with that 4k7 pullup. Use the onewire and dallastemperature libraries.
[19:32] <daveake> You can set the precision; I set to 9 bits which is ~ 1 deg C, and that's a lot quicker than 12 bits
[19:33] <Elmar_PD3EM> tnx. gonna order the sensor
[19:33] <daveake> You can trigger a measurement then come back later for the result (not that I have, yet)
[19:34] <daveake> If you need >1 sensor you just connect more sensors to the same line
[19:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> i'll have to look into that
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[19:48] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
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[19:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Dutch-Mill i only the a GP for vertical, the beam is h-pol.
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[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi lunar
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi brian
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> how is life?
[20:02] <nigelvh> Howdy
[20:04] <Dutch-Mill> Oke Brain it was worth a try
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh
[20:04] <nigelvh> How's things Lunar?
[20:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Lunar_Lander life is good, tracking if not, pico signal is lost
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> good, thanks and with you?
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> oh OK
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> where is the pico flight?
[20:05] <nigelvh> I'm doing well. Just working. Eating a cookie. So I suppose that's good.
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea, think so too
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[20:07] <Morseman> Glad to hear Ozzie is back home navrac
[20:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> PD0FSB from Alkmaar JO22IP just listen for pico, but didnt hear any rtty/hell
[20:10] <navrac> thanks morseman - a new set of AAA's and it will be fine
[20:13] <Matt_soton> anyone knowledgeable on setting the ublox 6 to flight mode?
[20:14] <daveake> tis here - http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[20:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[20:14] <eroomde> bbc article:
[20:14] <eroomde> "A Scottish government advert has been banned for suggesting China had "gifted" two pandas to Edinburgh Zoo."
[20:14] <eroomde> quite right
[20:14] <eroomde> gift isn't a verb
[20:14] <daveake> :D
[20:15] <Randomskk> didn't you hear? everything is a verb now
[20:15] <Matt_soton> i did try sending that 44 byte 'string' but the gps didnt do anything
[20:15] <nigelvh> I had a great time everythinging last night.
[20:15] <navrac> what like I everythinged it?
[20:15] <Randomskk> exactly
[20:15] <Matt_soton> can you mix nmea and ubx on the serial port
[20:15] <navrac> yep
[20:16] <Randomskk> Matt_soton: hook it up to u-center it makes life much easier
[20:16] <Randomskk> ...
[20:16] <Matt_soton> it wont save config though
[20:16] <Randomskk> well I guess not without config storage
[20:16] <Randomskk> yea
[20:16] <navrac> yep - use ucentre to send stuff and watch the replies
[20:16] <Randomskk> anyway it doesn't respond when you set the mode
[20:16] <Randomskk> iirc
[20:16] <Randomskk> but you can query the mode
[20:16] <Randomskk> and see what it says it's in
[20:16] <Randomskk> to check
[20:16] <navrac> yep you have to ask it to see if it set it
[20:17] <Matt_soton> well ill play with ucentre
[20:17] <Matt_soton> my c could always be wrong
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[20:17] <eroomde> you stay away from my centre thankyou very much
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[20:18] <Randomskk> eroomde: you don't like things being plugged in to ur-centre?
[20:18] <Randomskk> sorry u-centre
[20:18] <nigelvh> Generally guys don't.
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> what is u-centre?
[20:19] <nigelvh> Are you a guy?
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> is that something like Realterm?
[20:20] <eroomde> it's pretty real
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes, but I assume that ucentre is a program
[20:20] <nigelvh> You don't wanna know.
[20:20] <eroomde> http://www.u-blox.com/en/evaluation-tools-a-software/u-center/u-center.html
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> well I want to know cause RealTerm only works in admin mode on Windows 7 and even that didn't receive the GPS
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah, the official software
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:21] <eroomde> useful for config
[20:21] <eroomde> especially if you have a module with flash memory to retain the config settings between power cycles
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> (internet connection is required for installation)
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> ?!
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[20:21] <Matt_soton> lots of dials and so on in this software
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:21] <eroomde> and knobs
[20:22] <Matt_soton> is a 2mb downloader which downloads a 6mb file :/
[20:22] <Randomskk> har har eroomde
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea, but the windows PC I use for programming is a offline thing
[20:22] <nigelvh> I hate those stupid downloader apps.
[20:22] <Elmar_PD3EM> you can do it without
[20:22] <Matt_soton> lots of buttons with no tooltip
[20:23] <Matt_soton> this will end well
[20:23] <eroomde> in our wavelet transform lectures we managed to construct a mathematically sensical joke, the punchline of with was Har-T-Har-Har
[20:23] <eroomde> which was based around the haar transform
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> Elmar_PD3EM, but as Matt_soton said, it needs files from the internet?
[20:23] <Matt_soton> Lunar_Lander: olnly to instal
[20:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> to download the msi...
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> well yea
[20:23] <daveake> haard to follow for non-mathematicians
[20:24] <nigelvh> dave....
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> like Microsoft
[20:24] <daveake> who does?
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> they offer XP SP1a as a download version only
[20:24] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander: www.u-blox.com/customersupport/u-center.msi
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah, thanks
[20:24] <eroomde> well, it was terribly funny
[20:24] <eroomde> you'll just have to take my word for it
[20:25] <daveake> taken
[20:25] <Morseman> From what you say, do you have to incorporate the code to switch the Ublox to high altitude mode or can it be made permanent
[20:25] <Matt_soton> how do you actually use u-centre to send commands anyway?
[20:26] <navrac> yes you have to set the ublox in code - unless you have battery backup - and even then i wouldnt trust it
[20:26] <navrac> look for the button with what lookslike 3 frames in it
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> at least we are not Wheatly
[20:27] <navrac> select a command from the list
[20:27] <Randomskk> if you put an EEPROM or flash storage chip on your GPS
[20:27] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[20:27] <Randomskk> then you can tell the ublox to write its config to the storage
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> but I like that he has been given a british accent
[20:27] <Randomskk> and it'l automatically load that at startup
[20:27] <nigelvh> Oh wheatley
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> "I'll try for a manual override on this wall"
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> "Remember, we're looking for a thing that makes holes, not bullet holes, but you'll see"
[20:28] <nigelvh> Yes, talk means jump. Goood!
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> "Say Apple"
[20:28] <nigelvh> Aaaaaple
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> "Well, you are a good jumper, that's on your side"
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:29] <jonsowman> Randomskk: i think the GPS should ack all CFG messages
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> "She'll kill us. Yes, yes, she'll do that, she...oh, no, good, she's off, good, you can go in there"
[20:29] <Randomskk> I forget
[20:29] <Randomskk> maybe it does
[20:30] <jonsowman> joey checks for nav mode and i had to read in the CFG message it returns followed by an ACK
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> "It's a simple password, (system power-up started), keep calm I'll hack it...A-A-A-A-A *buzzer* damn, A-A-A-A-C *buzzer*, did we try B? please start writing these down for me (power-up completed)"
[20:31] <nigelvh> Look I've decided I'm not going to kill you... if you come back
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> I saw that on the Let's Play
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> the room where the heart appeared on the wall and you could see plants through the door
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> what would have happened if you'd try to go in there
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> would the ceiling fall down or so?
[20:32] <nigelvh> Would you just jump into that pit there? That deadly pit. Why would you want to jump in the pit? Well guess who's down there? Your parents!
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> "um, you see, assuming this fall isn't endless, could you borrow me one of your Long Fall Boots and put me in there? Just remember to land on one foot."
[20:33] <nigelvh> I did the room with the plants
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:33] <nigelvh> (on my second play through)
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> what happened?
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> did she slam the door shut ?
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[20:33] <nigelvh> She closes the wall and fills the room with neurotoxins
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[20:34] <Matt_soton> now what serial terminal can i use to see what bytes im sending from my avr...
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> btw thanks Elmar_PD3EM for the ublox program
[20:35] <nigelvh> "aristotle vs mashy spike plate"
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[20:35] <nigelvh> "did it kill you? It would be amazing if it killed you"
[20:35] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: can't you just sprintf them and spit them out over the uart?
[20:35] <Matt_soton> thats what i think im doing
[20:35] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander: had the same problem here a few days ago
[20:36] <nigelvh> That would explain the extremely quiet killing
[20:36] <nigelvh> "you know, I would tell you if I was dead. Mark of a civil society. Just common courtesy"
[20:38] <nigelvh> "why not teach me a lesson by just jumping in the 'ol masher"
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[20:43] <Matt_soton> not too sure how being able to configure it with ucentre is going to help me cofigure it with an avr
[20:43] <navrac> you send it commands with ucentre and then nick the bytes it sends and paste them into your code
[20:44] <Matt_soton> well i nicked the bytes off the wiki :
[20:44] <Matt_soton> :P
[20:44] <Matt_soton> why would it be any differnet :\
[20:44] <navrac> well there are lots of other bits to play with like powersaving etc
[20:44] <Matt_soton> what i need is a serial terminal that displays raw bytes so i can be sure
[20:44] <navrac> and they arent all on the wiki cos i havent put them up there yet!
[20:45] <Matt_soton> well the flight mode one is
[20:45] <navrac> cant you just use serial.write and cast them as bytes
[20:45] <Matt_soton> the important one...
[20:45] <r2x0t> http://www.compuphase.com/software_termite.htm
[20:45] <Matt_soton> ah thaks
[20:45] <r2x0t> and download the "Hexadecimal View" filter
[20:46] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: just send the nav mode command and then read it back
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[20:46] <jonsowman> its ack should be enough to convince you it worked
[20:47] <Matt_soton> well im also sending the turn off rmc command and rmc is still being sent
[20:47] <Matt_soton> so i know its not working
[20:47] <jonsowman> pastie the request you're sending
[20:47] <jonsowman> for rmc
[20:47] <Matt_soton> its the one on the wiki
[20:47] <jonsowman> oh ok
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[20:50] <Matt_soton> oh my serial command is broke
[20:50] <Matt_soton> sends only FF :\
[20:50] <jonsowman> :P
[20:50] <jonsowman> explains a bit
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[20:53] <Matt_soton> jonsowman: is .eep the eeprom file generated by avrgcc?
[20:54] <jonsowman> yeah
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[20:54] <Randomskk> what're you storing in eeprom?
[20:55] <Matt_soton> lol whoops
[20:55] <Matt_soton> turns out you need to write eeprom seperately
[20:55] <jonsowman> nice...
[20:55] <Randomskk> why store the config messages in eeprom?
[20:55] <Randomskk> surely flash would be easier...
[20:55] <Randomskk> s/easier/better
[20:55] <Matt_soton> well eeprom/flash same thing
[20:55] <Randomskk> s'not
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[20:56] <Matt_soton> the reason i did it is probably because i had the command in front of me from something else
[20:56] <jonsowman> -U eeprom:w:main.eep:i
[20:56] <jonsowman> or something
[20:56] <Matt_soton> :i?
[20:56] <Randomskk> how much eeprom does the thing have?
[20:56] <Randomskk> can't you just PROGMEM for flash storage?
[20:56] <Matt_soton> not alot
[20:56] <jonsowman> 1kb eeprom
[20:56] <Randomskk> putting it in eeprom seems like a weird place to put it given as it's static
[20:57] <Randomskk> wow, more than I thought
[20:57] <Randomskk> even so though
[20:57] <Matt_soton> well now its done i cant see why not just leave it there
[20:57] <Matt_soton> appart from remembering to flash it
[20:57] <Randomskk> I guess
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[20:59] <Matt_soton> well still doesnt work, still giving me rmc
[20:59] <Matt_soton> does it ack flight mode?
[21:00] <jonsowman> it only acks CFG messages i think
[21:00] <navrac> yes - thats why theres getubx just after it sends it
[21:00] <jonsowman> ack is 0x01 0x02
[21:00] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[21:00] <jonsowman> (i've been doing too much of this recently)
[21:00] <Matt_soton> so not text, so i wouldnt have seen it
[21:01] <jonsowman> it's not ascii, no
[21:01] <jonsowman> you're using a binary protocol
[21:01] <jonsowman> it would be weird if you sent binary to it and it replied with ascii
[21:01] <Matt_soton> it still gives nmea though?
[21:01] <jonsowman> yeah but for config stuff
[21:02] <jonsowman> NMEA is defined as ascii
[21:02] <jonsowman> wombat and joey have all ascii/NMEA stuff turned off, just polling for information using binary
[21:03] <Matt_soton> well because im lazy im getting it to behave like a lassen so no code mod is needed
[21:03] <jonsowman> :D
[21:03] <jonsowman> can understand that
[21:03] <jonsowman> you have existing NMEA parsing and it's known to work
[21:04] <jonsowman> if you do this from scratch in the future i suggest using the binary protocol, it's much nicer :)
[21:04] <Matt_soton> yea
[21:04] <jonsowman> although the datasheet will probably make you cry
[21:04] <jonsowman> that said, there's now wombat & joey's source which should cover everything you need
[21:05] <Randomskk> though wombat's source hilariously just uses floats for the annoying division stuff
[21:05] <Randomskk> so much easier
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[21:05] <jonsowman> oh yeah i linked against the full version of vfprintf
[21:06] <Randomskk> lol
[21:06] <jonsowman> it only adds 1500 odd bytes to the ROM size fwiw
[21:06] <Randomskk> oh I guess I do too as I just use newlib and sprintf
[21:06] <Randomskk> and I have like a ton of flash
[21:06] <Randomskk> 1MB flash was it?
[21:06] <Randomskk> or a megabit, I can't remember
[21:06] <Randomskk> no, 1MiB
[21:06] <Randomskk> lol
[21:06] <jonsowman> more than enough in other words :D
[21:07] <Randomskk> so much that 1.5k for newlib is like "lol whatever"
[21:07] <Randomskk> not enough to put linux on
[21:08] <jonsowman> hehe
[21:08] <Matt_soton> doesnt ack :\
[21:09] <daveake> for linux you need a pc10...<lost carrier>
[21:09] <navrac> lol
[21:09] <jonsowman> /kick daveake
[21:09] <jonsowman> :P
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[21:09] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: do you get anything back at all?
[21:09] <Matt_soton> lots of lovely nmea
[21:10] <navrac> doesnt sound like its receivingsanyhing from you
[21:10] <Randomskk> are you sure you're not still sending FF?
[21:10] <Randomskk> what baud rate?
[21:10] <Matt_soton> yea i checked
[21:10] <Matt_soton> 9600 baud
[21:10] <Randomskk> :/
[21:10] <jonsowman> that doesn't sound standard...
[21:10] <jonsowman> 38400 is default iirc?
[21:10] <Randomskk> yea I think it should be 38400
[21:10] <navrac> 9600 for a ublox
[21:11] <Randomskk> but you're getting 9600 nmea?
[21:11] <Matt_soton> well it gives 9600 nmea
[21:11] <Randomskk> it depends on your static configuration pin settings
[21:11] <Matt_soton> this is a max not leo
[21:11] <jonsowman> navrac: definitely 38400 default on the neo-6q on joey
[21:11] <Randomskk> I think FSA03 is 9600 and set to bus powered by default
[21:11] <jonsowman> yeah could be different for the MAX
[21:11] <Randomskk> jonsowman: only 38400 default if CFG0 is pulled low
[21:11] <jonsowman> ah
[21:11] <jonsowman> yes
[21:11] <Randomskk> config pins serve the same purpose on the MAX I think
[21:11] <jonsowman> you're right
[21:11] <Randomskk> but probably config pins differ
[21:11] <Matt_soton> the datasheet says 9600 defualt
[21:11] <Randomskk> which is interesting
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> back
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[21:11] <Randomskk> apology accepted
[21:12] <jonsowman> let's use the spi interface for boot-time configuration, that's a good idea. :|
[21:12] <nigelvh> I think you're letting him off easy randomskk
[21:12] <nigelvh> He just up and deserted us.
[21:13] <Randomskk> true
[21:13] <Randomskk> acception retracted
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
[21:13] Action: Lunar_Lander distributes cake
[21:13] <Randomskk> good enough
[21:13] <Randomskk> wait...
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> I'm not an AI
[21:13] <nigelvh> THE CAKE IS A LIE
[21:13] Nick change: daveake -> davecake
[21:14] Nick change: nigelvh -> no_cake
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[21:15] <no_cake> BTW, on a radio related topic, you know that there were several SSTV transmissions in the game dont you?
[21:15] <Randomskk> and morse
[21:17] <Matt_soton> thers a '0x3C' difference between the ucentre command and the wiki one
[21:17] <Matt_soton> i wonder what that does
[21:17] <jonsowman> where in the command is it?
[21:18] <Matt_soton> its dgps timeout
[21:18] <Matt_soton> what everthat is
[21:18] Nick change: davecake -> daveake
[21:18] <jonsowman> surely the checksum should be different then
[21:18] <Matt_soton> well yea it is
[21:18] <jonsowman> oh ok
[21:18] Nick change: no_cake -> wheatley
[21:19] <Matt_soton> there doesnt need to be a gap between commands?
[21:19] <Matt_soton> or a \?
[21:19] <Matt_soton> \n?
[21:19] <Matt_soton> nothing like that?
[21:20] <navrac> nope but it doesnt always reply straight away
[21:20] Nick change: wheatley -> GlaDOS
[21:20] <GlaDOS> Stupid registered nicks
[21:21] <jonsowman> no \n
[21:21] Nick change: GlaDOS -> nigelvh
[21:24] <Matt_soton> does not straight away mean 100ms later?
[21:24] <Matt_soton> im not looking at both at the same time anyway
[21:25] <navrac> it seems to depend on what you ask it to do - some of the powersavestuff didnt return for 20ms
[21:25] <navrac> 200ms
[21:25] <navrac> other stuff came back as soon as i looked for it]
[21:26] <Matt_soton> ok
[21:26] <Matt_soton> well rmc is still there so it hasnt been heard
[21:33] <jonsowman> hmm
[21:35] <Matt_soton> so me sending it commands over a serial terminal works
[21:36] <Matt_soton> having pasted the bytes from my code into the terminal
[21:38] <Matt_soton> i wonder how sensitive the ublox is to slight timing errors
[21:39] <navrac> ive had no problem using softwareserial - and thats hardly the most stable serial system
[21:39] <Matt_soton> dont care right now, cake time :)
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[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[21:39] <Matt_soton> ill get the scope out on my return
[21:49] <Dan-K2VOL> hey lunar
[21:51] <griffonbot> @adamgreig: From the CUSF museum #ukhas http://t.co/QCuy9uoK [http://twitter.com/adamgreig/status/190195300223295488]
[21:53] <jonsowman> excellent
[21:53] <jonsowman> ^
[21:54] <Randomskk> ;D
[21:55] <danielsaul> Do you not have a glass cabinet with CUSF artifacts in your lab?
[21:55] <jonsowman> soon
[21:55] <jonsowman> as soon as we find a glass cabinet
[21:55] <Randomskk> didn't we throw away all the museum stuff?
[21:55] <Randomskk> and the glass cabinet?
[21:55] <Randomskk> on account of it all being like, literally bricks
[21:55] <Matt_soton> scope reckons my 9600 baud is actually 9700...
[21:56] <danielsaul> haha
[21:56] <jonsowman> Randomskk: there's a glass cabinet in the other room
[21:56] <Randomskk> yea...
[21:56] <jonsowman> maybe we should steal it
[21:56] <Randomskk> maybe we should leave it there
[21:56] <Randomskk> and move the museum
[21:56] <jonsowman> yes
[21:56] <Randomskk> but I really think a lot of the museum stuff got thrown in The Big Clean
[21:56] <jonsowman> yeah probably
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[22:01] Nickle (~Nickle@93-96-143-83.zone4.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:02] <Nickle> Quick Question. What gauge wire do people use for cut downs?
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> 10ohm 1/8watt
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> also known as a resistor
[22:04] <Nickle> Not nichrome?
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[22:09] <fsphil> some use nichrome, some use resistors
[22:12] <navrac> ping darkside
[22:12] <nigelvh> objects heated by electrical current
[22:12] <fsphil> hehe, found my original BALLOON document when I first started thinking about this stuff:
[22:12] <fsphil> software UART for radio - TX only, 50 baud
[22:12] <fsphil> * faster baud for sending small JPEG image?
[22:12] <fsphil> I actually considered 50 baud for images
[22:13] <nigelvh> That might take a bit.
[22:13] <Randomskk> depends how small :P
[22:13] <fsphil> lol yea, I didn't mention how small
[22:13] <nigelvh> And your color depth
[22:13] <Randomskk> monochrome and a few tens of pixels would be fairly ok :P
[22:14] <Matt_soton> solved it
[22:14] <fsphil> the system I ended up with, the smallest image is 256 bytes big
[22:14] <Matt_soton> the ublox is REALLY sensitive to baud rate mismatch
[22:14] <nigelvh> Really you could do 256 color in a byte
[22:14] <fsphil> 56 seconds
[22:14] <nigelvh> So then it's just your size
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[22:15] <navrac> i must just be lucky with softwareserial then!
[22:15] <fsphil> Matt_soton, surely it's the avr that's sensitive
[22:15] <Matt_soton> no im trying to tell the ublox to work above 12km
[22:15] <fsphil> ah
[22:15] <nigelvh> Also, what are you clocking the AVR with?
[22:15] <Matt_soton> and it didnt want to know
[22:15] <fsphil> gotcha
[22:15] <Matt_soton> internal 8MMHz
[22:16] <nigelvh> Yeah, internal isn't terribly accurate
[22:16] <Randomskk> that's a pretty high frequency
[22:16] <fsphil> that'll be why
[22:16] <fsphil> lol
[22:16] <Randomskk> I think it's only specced up to 20MHz at 5V tops :P
[22:16] <Matt_soton> even so
[22:16] <Matt_soton> only 1% out
[22:16] <fsphil> 8gigahertz
[22:16] <Matt_soton> pretty crap gps serial port :P
[22:16] <nigelvh> I clock mine at 16MHz, but use an external crystal at 5V
[22:16] <fsphil> I'm odd and use 7.3728mhz
[22:16] <fsphil> but then I can do 9600 baud ... precisely
[22:17] <Randomskk> I do 168MHz PLLd up from 8MHz crystal
[22:17] <Randomskk> probably does 9600 just as well ;P
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[22:17] <fsphil> nss could probably be made to sense the baud rate it's receiving, and adjust accordingly
[22:17] <Matt_soton> surely 8MMHz is 8terahertz?
[22:18] <Matt_soton> also this is avr hardware serial port
[22:18] <fsphil> the internal oscillator can be calibrated
[22:18] <fsphil> no idea how, just seen that mentioned in the datasheet
[22:19] <nigelvh> Yes, but if I recall it's also mentioned that it's also very temperature sensitive.
[22:19] <fsphil> ah, fatal flaw
[22:19] <nigelvh> Yes
[22:19] <nigelvh> hate for it to get cold and drop GPS data
[22:20] <Matt_soton> well hopefully itll keep its settings
[22:20] <fsphil> for receiving the data though
[22:20] <fsphil> it might drift to far for even the avr
[22:20] <Matt_soton> also i dont think the 8MHz is that inaccurate, there is supposed to be a 2% error anyway due to 8M not 7.whatever
[22:20] <nigelvh> Also, I believe it's been said that the ublox won't keep settings through a power cycle.
[22:21] <fsphil> not without an eeprom or backup battery
[22:21] <Matt_soton> the avr serial port seems fine, it was fine with the lassen
[22:21] <Matt_soton> and yea just hope it doesnt power cycle
[22:21] <nigelvh> Those aren't bets I'd personally make.
[22:21] <fsphil> Matt_soton, you can talk to the ublox via spi -- won't have the timing issue
[22:21] <Matt_soton> tbh by 9600 baud is now 9542
[22:22] <Matt_soton> maybe the ublox is fine with -% errors but not +%
[22:22] <nigelvh> SPI would fix the issue.
[22:22] <nigelvh> Seconding fsphil
[22:22] <Matt_soton> also i have a serial only breakout because im lazy
[22:22] <fsphil> hehe
[22:22] <Matt_soton> next board can have it soldered on and so spi
[22:22] <Matt_soton> actually more time/money then lazy
[22:22] <nigelvh> Or just use a real crystal
[22:23] <nigelvh> Or even a ceramic resonator would be better than the RC built in.
[22:23] <Matt_soton> i dont think the crystal error is the issue, i think its you can never get 9600 from 8M
[22:24] <nigelvh> All sorts of people run them at 8MHz and do fine with 9600
[22:24] <Matt_soton> actually error is supposed to be 0.2% and i got 2%
[22:24] <nigelvh> but they use external stuff.
[22:24] <Matt_soton> lol whoops
[22:24] <Matt_soton> i think i have some 16MHz crystals aroun dhere
[22:25] <Matt_soton> theres space on the board, its just not soldered
[22:25] <Matt_soton> not sure i can be bothered to solder it mind you
[22:26] <nigelvh> Well, I would certainly recommend using an external crystal
[22:26] <Matt_soton> doesnt help i cant accurately measure the period on this scope
[22:28] <Matt_soton> i wonder what the oscillator drift actually is...
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[22:28] <nigelvh> I do believe there's a way to direct the clock to an external pin. You could use that to measure it.
[22:29] <Matt_soton> answer: shit
[22:29] <Matt_soton> it can drift 200k over 20-> -40C
[22:29] <jonsowman> the internal one is rubbish, yes
[22:30] <navrac> nice - built in temp sensor then
[22:30] <Matt_soton> i might see if itll still configure at lower bauds
[22:30] <Matt_soton> is it broke? yes, well its cold then
[22:30] <Matt_soton> 1 bit temp sensor ^
[22:31] <jonsowman> i think you can only use the internal temp sensor if you havent connected AREF
[22:31] <fsphil> How hot is it? Yes
[22:31] <nigelvh> Don't forget the hot possibility
[22:34] <Randomskk> jonsowman: I think he means you can use the clock freq to measure temperature :P
[22:35] <Randomskk> nigelvh / fsphil: have you tried using spi to talk to a ublox?
[22:35] <Matt_soton> actually the ublox seems fine with lower bauds, but not high ones
[22:35] <jonsowman> oh i see
[22:35] <Matt_soton> so it seems that as it gets cold itll still work
[22:36] <nigelvh> Again, a bet I would not make.
[22:36] <nigelvh> As for the ublox and spi, i've never used a ublox
[22:36] <nigelvh> I use other GPSs
[22:37] <Matt_soton> its working fine at 9200 baud
[22:37] <nigelvh> Ones that don't require extra configuration to work at high altitude. Though admittedly without some of the other fancy features as well.
[22:38] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[22:39] <Matt_soton> it works all the way down to 9200 baud, 4.1% error
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[22:40] <Matt_soton> temperature change of the osc isnt that much
[22:40] <jonsowman> that's very tolerant of it
[22:40] <Matt_soton> but it wont do much above
[22:40] <Matt_soton> odd
[22:40] <Matt_soton> i think itll reconfigure every 16 packets
[22:40] <Matt_soton> just because
[22:41] <Randomskk> just check it's still ok
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[22:41] <Matt_soton> or i could solder the crystal i have lying around
[22:42] <Matt_soton> should have ordered a 8MHz one, i dont want to change my constants
[22:42] <fsphil> Randomskk, none of my boards have it connected or broken out
[22:42] <Randomskk> crystals are for squares
[22:42] <Randomskk> I don't think using the spi for comms was all that easy for some reason
[22:42] <Randomskk> there were issues iirc
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[22:42] <Randomskk> might be easier on the max
[22:42] <Matt_soton> you have to ask it for data and clock it out i suppose?
[22:43] <Matt_soton> probably only supports binary mode, no nmea?
[22:43] <nigelvh> That'd be my guess.
[22:43] <Randomskk> no reason it can't support NMEA.
[22:43] <nigelvh> But again, I haven't used one.
[22:43] <Randomskk> but I imagine it doesn't do periodic messages, no
[22:43] <nigelvh> Master would have to clock it in.
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[22:48] <jcoxon> quickly popping in
[22:48] <nigelvh> Hello
[22:49] <navrac> hiya
[22:49] <jcoxon> so looking at hte logs pico did re-appear
[22:50] <nigelvh> Yeah?
[22:50] <jcoxon> dutch-mill heard it - to the north of him
[22:50] <nigelvh> Any data?
[22:51] <jcoxon> no
[22:51] <jcoxon> oh well
[22:51] <jcoxon> its gone now
[22:51] <jcoxon> mission over
[22:51] <Randomskk> successful float though
[22:51] <nigelvh> That is kinda the problem with being surrounded by water.
[22:52] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:52] <jcoxon> Randomskk, yes
[22:52] <jcoxon> it can be done and replicated
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[22:58] <Matt_soton> what do people generally do when it comes to checking whether flight mode airborne has been recieved or not?
[22:58] <Randomskk> you send the nav mode config thing
[22:58] <Randomskk> and it replies with current nav mode
[22:58] <Randomskk> ad you check it's what you awnt
[22:59] <Matt_soton> i mean is it worth checking?
[22:59] <Matt_soton> now i know the command is right
[22:59] <Randomskk> oh
[22:59] <Randomskk> I didn't bother on wombat
[22:59] <Randomskk> other people do bother
[22:59] <Matt_soton> it resends every so offen anyway
[22:59] <Matt_soton> once its in the air then nothing you can do
[23:00] <jonsowman> joey checks but does nothing about it if it's wrong
[23:00] <navrac> I bother because im running in powersave mode - and the chip can reset itself occasionally
[23:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "[UKHAS] You are invited to Mission Control Training this weekend"
[23:00] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[23:00] <Randomskk> jonsowman: lol isn't that the worst option though?
[23:00] <jonsowman> Randomskk: haha yes
[23:00] <Randomskk> or "does't do anything /yet/"?
[23:00] <jonsowman> yes, that
[23:00] <jonsowman> i didn't have time
[23:00] <Randomskk> hehe
[23:02] <Matt_soton> i think ill spend my time one my new radio
[23:02] <Matt_soton> for which the parts havnt yet arived
[23:03] <Matt_soton> wow that gets lock fast
[23:03] <jonsowman> :)
[23:04] <Matt_soton> is that cold in my room its already drifted by 1khz
[23:04] <Matt_soton> *its
[23:05] <Matt_soton> o dear
[23:05] <Matt_soton> turns out lassen nmea isnt the same as ublox nmea
[23:05] <Matt_soton> as far as my payload is concerned
[23:06] <jonsowman> ?
[23:06] <Randomskk> the point of nmea
[23:06] <Randomskk> something to do with standards
[23:06] <Randomskk> make sure it's configured to send the type of sentences you want to receive
[23:06] <Matt_soton> my parsing only works for lassens it seems
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[23:11] <Matt_soton> fixed length parsing only works for fixed length fields it seems
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[23:11] <Randomskk> yes that sounds right :P
[23:12] <jonsowman> wonders will never cease
[23:12] <Randomskk> this is why <3 binary formats
[23:12] <Matt_soton> thers a c function that splits and puts in strings isnt there?
[23:12] <Randomskk> uhm
[23:12] <jonsowman> sscanf?
[23:13] <Randomskk> there's strtok and sscanf
[23:13] <Matt_soton> the lazy way would be too add a new numbers to these offsets to compensate for the longer fields...
[23:14] <Randomskk> you know the new fields probably aren't fixed width either
[23:14] <Matt_soton> well they were on the lassen, but might be a good time to fix this
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[23:21] <Matt_soton> http://www.elook.org/programming/c/strtok.html
[23:21] <Matt_soton> so strtok creates a copy of the 'extracted' string?
[23:22] <Matt_soton> giving you the pointer?
[23:25] <Matt_soton> Randomskk: ^?
[23:25] <Randomskk> don't use strtok it's a nightmare, I once used it to parse nmea and regretted it
[23:25] <Randomskk> that said it did work
[23:25] <Randomskk> so it's not that bad
[23:26] <Randomskk> and this was on a desktop
[23:26] <Randomskk> :/
[23:26] <Matt_soton> it just gives you the next sstring though?
[23:26] <Matt_soton> seems ok
[23:26] <Randomskk> yea
[23:26] <Randomskk> seems ok
[23:26] <Matt_soton> but it does seem to make a new string rather then just give you the pointer
[23:26] <Randomskk> honestly I can't remember the reason it was awful
[23:26] <Randomskk> I think just C
[23:27] <Matt_soton> im running a bit low on ram, im not sure what happens if a function decides to ask for ram that doesnt exist
[23:27] <Randomskk> sadness
[23:27] <jonsowman> why so much ram usage?
[23:28] <Matt_soton> well i buffer all nmea data which is then written to sd card
[23:28] <jonsowman> ah i see
[23:28] <Matt_soton> and there is a seperate buffer for gpgga strings, which there are two of so one can be filled up while the other is parsed
[23:28] <Matt_soton> and sd card stuff
[23:34] <jonsowman> ok
[23:34] <Matt_soton> so nmea is a massive pain
[23:34] <Matt_soton> but kinda good for logging purposes
[23:34] <Randomskk> yes
[23:34] <Randomskk> this is why binary protocol >_>
[23:34] <Randomskk> I guesssss
[23:35] <jonsowman> logging from binary is easy
[23:35] <jonsowman> you have to make an ascii string for the radio anyway
[23:35] <jonsowman> so just send it to sd as well
[23:36] <Matt_soton> while (*str++ != ','){;}
[23:36] <Matt_soton> return str
[23:37] <Randomskk> so you'll like this:
[23:37] <Matt_soton> that will look at current str pointed too, see if != ','
[23:37] <Randomskk> while(*str++ != ',');
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[23:37] <Matt_soton> then increment?
[23:37] <Randomskk> you could just do while() {}
[23:37] <Randomskk> but you can just while();
[23:37] <Matt_soton> yea i know {} isnt needed
[23:37] <Randomskk> while(){;} is weird and longer anyway
[23:38] <Matt_soton> but that function will return the pointer after a comma right?
[23:39] <r2x0t> no, str will point to next comma
[23:39] <Matt_soton> so it doesnt check then increment?
[23:39] <Matt_soton> i might just write it out long form
[23:39] <Randomskk> yea I'd expect it to check then increment
[23:39] <Randomskk> but that's the thing with clever-looking C
[23:39] <r2x0t> it checks, then increment
[23:39] <Randomskk> it's impresisvely unclear
[23:40] <Randomskk> impressively*
[23:40] <Matt_soton> so on return i would expect my pointer to be the start of a field?
[23:40] <Randomskk> yes
[23:40] <Matt_soton> small issue of checking for \0
[23:40] <Randomskk> it takes str, increments it, checks the old value against ',', if it's equal then it exits the loop
[23:40] <Matt_soton> :)
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[23:43] <r2x0t> if you have always same number of tokens, you don't have to check for \0
[23:43] <Matt_soton> i would hope thats the case
[23:43] <Matt_soton> but you never knw
[23:43] <r2x0t> simple way to tokenize string is something like:
[23:43] <r2x0t> char *tokens[10];
[23:43] <r2x0t> char *str = "blah,1,2,3,4,5,end";
[23:43] <r2x0t> int n=0;
[23:43] <r2x0t> while(n<10) { tokens[n++]=str; while(*(str++)!=','); str++; }
[23:44] <Matt_soton> hmm nice
[23:44] <r2x0t> str is crap, should have 10 tokens... but you got the idea
[23:45] <Matt_soton> still might have to add a \0 check
[23:45] <r2x0t> you can make function like this, that takes string, output array and number of tokens
[23:45] <r2x0t> and add that NULL check
[23:45] <Matt_soton> i might be horrible and not bother with the function bit
[23:46] <r2x0t> function is good if you need to parse one token for tokens :)
[23:46] <r2x0t> like GPS setence -> time field -> get HH/MM/SS
[23:46] <Matt_soton> if i use a function id then have to set how many tokens and so on
[23:46] <Matt_soton> it only needs using once
[23:47] <r2x0t> heh, then just leave it as it is ...
[23:47] <Matt_soton> ok so need 8 tokens
[23:48] <Matt_soton> why is altitude so far down the string..
[23:48] <r2x0t> also you can add *str=0; after while(...); so returned strings are null terminated if you need that
[23:49] <Matt_soton> what i do is just copy a fixed number of characters after the string pointer
[23:49] <r2x0t> if you want number, you can pass it to atoi()
[23:49] <r2x0t> or use sscanf if library have it for more complex strings
[23:50] <r2x0t> but maybe just copying strings is enough, if you don't want to reformat it
[23:50] <Matt_soton> its really simple parsing really, you just need to know the start of each field
[23:50] <Matt_soton> which i previously assumed to be static
[23:50] <Matt_soton> so shove the loop above, and use array values, then sorted
[23:52] <r2x0t> yes, it will fill the tokens[] with pointers to str where tokens begin
[23:52] <r2x0t> it doesn't copy anything, it's just pointer...
[23:52] <Matt_soton> yea i know, which is nice
[23:52] <r2x0t> yes, fast
[00:00] --- Thu Apr 12 2012