highaltitude.log.20120410

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[01:14] <griffonbot> @darksidelemm: RT @vk5fsck: Project Horus FM Repeater Balloon Flight planned 15th April - http://t.co/CeuYAndH #hamr #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/darksidelemm/status/189521734360244224]
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[01:59] <schofieldau> so apparently today I spent a fair bit of time in brazil :P
[02:01] <Darkside> pff
[02:02] <schofieldau> looks like it's having issues with time as well
[02:02] <schofieldau> which I think is a software bug
[02:02] <schofieldau> because it gets a lock and knows the position
[02:02] <schofieldau> but a lot of the time it will be reporting times close to 00:00:00 and counting upwawrds
[02:14] <NigeyS> talk about a bloody headache :(
[02:14] Action: NigeyS bitchslaps php-json#
[02:14] <schofieldau> haha
[02:19] <schofieldau> jdtanner, you around
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[02:28] <NigeyS> meh
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[02:41] <schofieldau> actually, d'oh
[02:41] <schofieldau> I was looking at the UTC
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[04:00] <schofieldau> (teenage girl on the news talking about one direction) "They're like the new Beatles!"
[04:01] <SpeedEvil> Just one headshot away.
[04:01] Action: SpeedEvil is reminded of a Frankie Boyle quote.
[04:01] <SpeedEvil> 'The only thing that could ruin a Justin Bieber concert is a gun, jamming in the darkness'.
[04:02] <schofieldau> hahaha
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[04:09] <NigeyS> nice looksie what i found...
[04:09] <NigeyS> * C100 SHELL CREATED BY CAPTAIN CRUNCH SECURITY TEAM
[04:09] <NigeyS> * WWW.CCTEAM.RU
[04:09] <NigeyS> crafty gits
[04:13] <schofieldau> hmm?
[04:13] <schofieldau> isn't that a php shell
[04:13] <schofieldau> like r57
[04:18] <NigeyS> yup
[04:18] <NigeyS> [root@373353-web2 uploads]# find . -type f -name '*.php'
[04:18] <NigeyS> ./locus.php
[04:18] <NigeyS> ./404.php
[04:18] <NigeyS> ./132586624753450/test.php
[04:18] <NigeyS> ./131030994840500/original.php
[04:18] <NigeyS> ./125493032634467/Ani-Shell.php
[04:18] <NigeyS> all those are php shells
[04:18] <schofieldau> is this your server?
[04:19] <schofieldau> did you happen to leave an upload.php/upload.html script kicking about?
[04:19] <NigeyS> nope, its a server i look after, its just been restored from backup, but obv the backup has some shells installed, so removng them before it goes back online
[04:19] <Darkside> schofieldau: i think we have another chase far for sunday now
[04:19] <Darkside> not sure how many seats are free in it
[04:19] <Darkside> we're gonna be using a shitload of gear this launch
[04:20] <NigeyS> schofieldau, they found a vuln in the CMS we use, these shells havent been used, but theyve certainly been uploaded
[04:20] <schofieldau> NigeyS: ah okay
[04:21] <schofieldau> Darkside: alright then
[04:21] <Darkside> i'll let you know closer to the date
[04:24] <schofieldau> cheers
[04:24] <schofieldau> happy to chip in for petrol, etc
[04:26] <griffonbot> @zindello: RT @vk5fsck: Project Horus FM Repeater Balloon Flight planned 15th April - http://t.co/CeuYAndH #hamr #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/zindello/status/189569907317407744]
[04:34] <griffonbot> @schofieldau: RT @vk5fsck: Project Horus FM Repeater Balloon Flight planned 15th April - http://t.co/CeuYAndH #hamr #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/schofieldau/status/189572128717279232]
[04:35] <schofieldau> jumping on the twitter bandwagon
[04:35] <schofieldau> also that's one quick bot
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[04:46] <schofieldau> just saw on facebook http://serversaustralia.com.au are having a 50% of everything for the life of the service sale this friday
[04:46] <schofieldau> including dedicated servers, all australian-hosted
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[05:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> morning!
[05:27] <jcoxon> hey Elmar_PD3EM
[05:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> Hey James
[05:28] <Elmar_PD3EM> WX looks good for the wind tomorrow but some rain maybe....
[05:28] <jcoxon> yeah
[05:28] <jcoxon> may have to postpone
[05:29] <jcoxon> i'll keep working towards a launch
[05:29] <jcoxon> so that i've got everything ready
[05:29] <jcoxon> but if it does rain we'll postpone
[05:29] <jcoxon> find another day
[05:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> great! path should be up the north of Norwegian coast ;-)
[05:29] <jcoxon> yeah - it would be a lot of fun
[05:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> see http://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/fsavneur.html for GFS maps on 500 hPa wind and rain
[05:31] <jcoxon> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=c68f74b3f791686b29e8ddd3fed7a9f605e081e6
[05:31] <jcoxon> fits with those maps
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[05:32] <Elmar_PD3EM> still a very nice path! Need some listeners up north
[05:32] <jcoxon> there are one or two
[05:33] <jcoxon> they just don't get flights near them very often
[05:33] <Elmar_PD3EM> ok great there are a few there
[05:33] <Elmar_PD3EM> manageded to get a temperature calculated yesterday
[05:34] <Elmar_PD3EM> should be ok below 20 degr C
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[05:36] <Upu> Brian will love you if you send that floater jcoxon :)
[05:37] <jcoxon> indeed
[05:37] <jcoxon> its a good path
[05:37] <Elmar_PD3EM> Upu: I think Brian is already dancing around in the shack ;-)
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[05:37] <jcoxon> one issue is that i have commitments in the evening
[05:38] <jcoxon> so won't be able to coordinate tracking after about 1830
[05:38] <Upu> sure we can handle it
[05:38] <Upu> just don't shout at us if we loose it
[05:38] <Upu> :)
[05:38] <jcoxon> yeah and be warned its slow-hell at night
[05:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> how to update reports with slow-hell?
[05:39] <jcoxon> so they are every 5mins but there are chirps every 10 seconds
[05:39] <jcoxon> so you can keep track of the signal
[05:39] <Upu> just type them in Elmar the decoding is done manually
[05:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> ok, sounds easy Upu
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[05:40] <jcoxon> the nice thing about slow-hell is that if you miss the start you can still get data
[05:40] <jcoxon> as its asyncronous
[05:41] <Elmar_PD3EM> looks always nice those hellscriber modes... like a roll of paper on the screen ;-)
[05:41] <jcoxon> during the day it'll be rtty
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[05:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] XTend RF Modems - 1 Watt/900 MHz Stand-Alone Radio Modems
[05:45] <schofieldau> Hey there Elmar
[05:47] <Elmar_PD3EM> Hi schofieldau
[05:47] <schofieldau> I'm going to start working on temperature sensor code
[05:48] <Elmar_PD3EM> great! for what sensor or general?
[05:49] <Darkside> schofieldau: what temp sensor are you using?
[05:49] <Elmar_PD3EM> i'm testing now with a MS5607 from Parallax and waiting for a BMP085 to be delivered
[05:52] <schofieldau> none as of yet
[05:52] <Darkside> schofieldau: heh
[05:52] <Darkside> we use the DS18B20s, they work pretty well down to -50
[05:53] <schofieldau> hmm
[05:53] <schofieldau> I have a feeling I have an old jaycar kit with some kind of temp sensor kicking around
[05:53] <Darkside> prolly a thermistor
[05:53] <Darkside> that'll work
[05:53] <Darkside> just matter of calibration
[05:55] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: RT @vk5fsck: Project Horus FM Repeater Balloon Flight planned 15th April - http://t.co/CeuYAndH #hamr #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/189592298521231360]
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[06:01] <Elmar_PD3EM> looks easy with a DS18B20s
[06:02] <schofieldau> easier with a thermistor I'd assume but probably more accurate with a one-wire
[06:02] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[06:03] <schofieldau> lol jaycar want $16.95 for a one-wire temp sensor+breakout
[06:03] <Darkside> schofieldau: i have some if you need them
[06:03] <Darkside> $5.25 each
[06:04] <schofieldau> okay may take you up on that
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[06:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> Just the sensor Darkside or as a breakout module?
[06:06] <Darkside> just the sensor
[06:06] <Darkside> you dont need a breakout
[06:06] <Darkside> its a through-hole component
[06:06] <Darkside> just need the sensor and a 4.7k resistor
[06:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> like http://nl.farnell.com/maxim-integrated-products/ds18b20-par/temperature-sensor/dp/1780528
[06:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> sounds easy
[06:07] <Elmar_PD3EM> good as an extra sensor for my project
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[06:09] <schofieldau> ugh my server just died
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[06:09] <schofieldau> and now it's back up
[06:10] Nick change: schofieldau -> schofieldau_
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[06:10] <schofiel1au> odd
[06:10] Nick change: schofiel1au -> schofieldau
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[06:13] <schofieldau> also, Darkside, I have some stuff which may be useful to tracking if you want to borrow any of it: firewire/usb high quality soundcards, car 240v inverter, nextg usb stick w/tonnes of data, laptops, etc
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[06:13] <Darkside> schofieldau: we've got enough stuff as it is :P
[06:13] <Darkside> i have enough gear just on my own to run a tracking car
[06:14] <Darkside> actually not quite - i'm missing a usb gps
[06:14] <Darkside> but they;re not hard to get
[06:14] <schofieldau> haha laright
[06:14] <Darkside> no, wait - my handheld radio can be a usb gps
[06:15] <schofieldau> as could a u-blox+ftdi
[06:15] <Darkside> yep
[06:15] <Darkside> done that before..
[06:15] <Darkside> i'm actuallty working on a ubloc breakout board with usb
[06:15] <Darkside> since the NEO-6Q chips have usb onboard
[06:15] <schofieldau> nice
[06:15] <schofieldau> yeah I read that
[06:15] <schofieldau> they also have automotive dead reckoning
[06:15] <schofieldau> and A-GPS
[06:16] <schofieldau> a whole bunch of cool stuff
[06:16] <Darkside> uhh
[06:16] <Darkside> the NEO-6Q doesn't
[06:16] <Darkside> but other models do
[06:16] <schofieldau> ah
[06:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> bbl.... got some work to do, including rebooting the server i'm working on now ;-)
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[08:10] <schofieldau> dad just bought home a big 'ol bag of electronics
[08:11] <schofieldau> $10 altronics mystery bag
[08:18] <Darkside> lol
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[08:25] <schofieldau> contents: proprietary connectors x1000. although there's some ribbon cables and trimpots and resistors and useful connectors
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[08:48] <cuddykid> what weight is right for a pico payload (on one of those foil balloons)?
[08:49] <navrac> well ozzie 1 was about 48g - thats all in including enclosure etc
[08:49] <navrac> oops 38g
[08:49] <navrac> ozzie 2 was 41g
[08:49] <cuddykid> nice - did you give it much insulation?
[08:49] <gonzo_> that a single 36" foil?
[08:49] <cuddykid> have any pics at all?
[08:50] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=94f6a23403a5b52d2eb810b4c5d726b891d8ce8f
[08:50] <navrac> free lify is 66g for a single foil
[08:50] <navrac> whats that the prediction for?
[08:51] <cuddykid> a possible flight on friday
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[08:51] <cuddykid> looks good atm
[08:51] <gonzo_> that would be an easy chase!
[08:51] <daveake> s/chase/stroll
[08:51] <cuddykid> still not as easy as my 1st launch! - landed about < 10km away
[08:51] <navrac> Well the insulation on ozzie2 was 6g ad 4g for ozzie1 - so in the case of ozzie 1 it was a cylinder100mm long by 75mm diameter
[08:52] <daveake> My first was about 20 miles. It's been downhill since then
[08:52] <cuddykid> navrac: was that styrofoam? that's super light!
[08:52] <gonzo_> we are looking at a 3x foil launch next month, with about 100gm payload
[08:53] <daveake> The low density stuff is very light
[08:53] <navrac> yep it was light
[08:53] <daveake> gonzo_ be careful of the 2m limit if you have 3
[08:54] <cuddykid> only problem is - I don't really fancy loosing this payload if it floats off to another country!
[08:54] <gonzo_> rgr dave, I recon it will go
[08:54] <daveake> pah. payloads are expendable.
[08:54] <cuddykid> lol
[08:54] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=74cf53e38ee25104b56cc397cadd83d36d1d090f
[08:54] <cuddykid> it'll be coming your way daveake
[08:54] <gonzo_> our prob is, so close to coast, it's a 50:50 chance of a wet l;anding
[08:55] <gonzo_> so not being tied to a notam is a big advantage
[08:55] <daveake> indeed
[08:55] <Darkside> daveake: was that you replying to oliver?
[08:55] <daveake> In the mailing list? Yep
[08:55] <Darkside> hehe
[08:56] <Darkside> +1
[08:56] <Darkside> using a picaxe...
[08:56] <Darkside> srsly
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[08:56] <navrac> oh - new stuff on olivers thread - excellent need cheering up
[08:57] <daveake> It did seem a bit like "Every project looks like a lump of wood if you have a picAxe"
[08:57] <jonsowman> very good
[08:57] <jonsowman> :P
[08:57] <gonzo_> open question here: UPU's ublox GPS's, do they need the setup string (for airborne mode) at every powerup??
[08:58] <jonsowman> gonzo_: yes unless you supply a backup battery supply or an i2c eeprom
[08:58] <jonsowman> neither of which are broken out on those breakouts iirc
[08:58] <daveake> gonzo_ Do check for restricted areas though. My pico launch was pretty close to going through a restricted area shortly after launch.
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[08:58] <gonzo_> jonsowman, ta. NP
[08:58] <daveake> gonzo_ Yes, on every startup
[08:59] <gonzo_> dave, what's the def for restricted areaa?
[08:59] <jonsowman> http://notaminfo.com/ukmap
[08:59] <daveake> There's a checkbox on the bottom of the panel in the predictor
[09:00] <gonzo_> rr will look.
[09:00] <daveake> In my case it was Harwell. The balloon was much higher than their height limit
[09:00] <daveake> But I hadn't checked and should have
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[09:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[09:01] <gonzo_> restricted = all notam'ed areas?
[09:03] <jcoxon> well just look at the actual notams
[09:03] <jcoxon> some of them are things like - change to fire crews at airport
[09:03] <jcoxon> or use this freq on approach
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[09:04] <gonzo_> yep see those. But controled airspace and airways, training areas etc are no-go's
[09:04] <daveake> But some are (e.g.) EGP106 HARWELL PROHIBITED Lower: Surface Upper: 2500ALT
[09:05] <daveake> If I do another, I'll probably do what jcoxon does and launch towards the sea :)
[09:06] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[09:07] <navrac> how did your duration test go jcoxon?
[09:07] <jcoxon> still going
[09:07] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:07] <navrac> nice
[09:07] <jcoxon> since 1500UTC
[09:08] <jcoxon> currently in rtty phase
[09:08] <jcoxon> batt V is about 2.9
[09:08] <navrac> 8dbm or 11?
[09:08] <jcoxon> 8
[09:08] <navrac> thats pretty good then.
[09:09] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:09] <jcoxon> soldered up a new pack
[09:09] <jcoxon> and collecting some He this afternoon
[09:09] <navrac> it always annoys me that the voltage regs get less efficiet as the battery voltage drops - exactly when you want it to be really efficient
[09:10] <navrac> so flight soon?
[09:10] <jcoxon> maybe tomorrow
[09:10] <jcoxon> will see what the weather is like
[09:11] <gonzo_> unless I've missed it, there are no detailed guides to the airspace side of things on the UKHAS site. And I've been ringing/emailing the CAA for advice for a month and got absolutly nowhere
[09:11] <jcoxon> in regards to picos?
[09:11] <gonzo_> pico or HAB
[09:11] <jcoxon> well HAB are okay cause you get a permission to fly
[09:12] <jcoxon> pico are assumed to be exempt therefore the CAA haven't ever really considered them
[09:12] <gonzo_> There is ionfo on applying for notam, but I am after advice on what to apply for.
[09:12] <jcoxon> chose a place
[09:12] <jcoxon> and then a window
[09:12] <gonzo_> I don't want to put in for one and then just get refused because it is in an unacceptable area etc
[09:12] <jcoxon> once you've applied they'll get back to you regarding if it is suitable
[09:13] <jcoxon> or they give advice
[09:13] <jcoxon> just avoid airports really
[09:14] <daveake> and the olympics :p
[09:14] <jcoxon> gonzo_, we get permission for hte lavenham site and its 1mile from a big airbase
[09:14] <jcoxon> the permission just requests that you contact the atc before flight
[09:14] <jcoxon> and the cusf site at churchil is a few miles from cambridge airport
[09:15] <daveake> only one I've had refused was for the weekend that the Fairford air show is on, which is fair enough of course.
[09:16] <gonzo_> locally we are in the bmth and solent controled airspace. (And a bit near weymouth)
[09:17] <gonzo_> was considering the pico locally. ut phone the local ATC to check before release
[09:17] <jcoxon> gonzo_, there is a risk of causing more confusion with the pico
[09:18] <gonzo_> in what way?
[09:18] <jcoxon> well they'll probably won't know what you mean
[09:18] <gonzo_> better to just go with the notam exempt status and not start upsetting the apple cart by being to visible?
[09:18] <jcoxon> sort of
[09:19] <jcoxon> yeh
[09:19] <gonzo_> I can lave with that
[09:19] <gonzo_> liver
[09:19] <gonzo_> live
[09:19] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "[UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[09:19] <gonzo_> (Ahg, typing over VNC!)
[09:19] <jcoxon> with the HAB stuff - you are an equal user in some ways to a cessna
[09:20] <SpeedEvil> Pico is 'exempt' - in the same way chinese lanterns are.
[09:20] <jcoxon> so just apply for hte notam in a sensible place with no trees and not outside an airport
[09:20] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, or a child letting go of a balloon
[09:20] <gonzo_> outside of airport controled space? Or outside some radius of an airport?
[09:21] <jcoxon> gonzo_, to be safe i'd go for a radius
[09:21] <gonzo_> is there a rough giode radius?
[09:21] <gonzo_> guide
[09:21] <jcoxon> noep
[09:21] <jcoxon> nope*
[09:22] <jcoxon> lets say 5 miles
[09:22] <gonzo_> will toss a coin then
[09:22] <gonzo_> all doable then
[09:22] <gonzo_> for a me balloon, need to be outside of the conrtoled airspace(s)?
[09:23] <gonzo_> met
[09:23] <jcoxon> well a lot of airspace is controlled
[09:23] <jcoxon> the permission application will review if you can pass through it
[09:23] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Indeed. If the child doesn't let go, you definitly need a NOTAM, as it's outside the exempt weight.
[09:23] <jcoxon> exactly
[09:24] <jcoxon> i hope thats enscribed in law!
[09:24] Action: SpeedEvil salivates to the delicious smell of a roast cooking.
[09:27] <navrac> I'm looking at my rather sad looking parts box and wondering if I can make another pico out the bits
[09:28] <gonzo_> depends on the mass of the child and if it will expand passed the 2mtr limit at any time in the flight
[09:28] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:28] <gonzo_> but basic guide should be, apply for a site outside of the controled airspace at low alt
[09:29] <navrac> well the child would have to be old enough to at least send morse and read a map so going to have to be 8 years old so need to know the average weight of an 8 year old
[09:30] <SpeedEvil> The 5-year-old that was mentioned earlier getting a HAM licence would probably be most mass-efficient.
[09:30] <navrac> thats a good idea
[09:30] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[09:31] <navrac> I will try to teach my grandchildren morse from birth
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> Start earlier!
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[09:33] <gonzo_> my daughet could send her hame at 7 yrs (got her M6 at 9yrs)
[09:33] <navrac> start tapping on the daughters stomach as soon as she's pregnant?
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[09:34] <gonzo_> the order those comments ended up sounded really dodgy!
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[09:53] <Definity> Hi
[09:53] <Definity> anybody here?
[09:53] <navrac> yep
[09:53] <Definity> cool
[09:53] <Definity> might be an odd question but how high can something be before it is in orbit?
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> Definity: There is no limit
[09:57] <Definity> no but how low should i say, i know it depends on weight so say something like 4 pounds?
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[09:57] <SpeedEvil> Orbit means 'in a ballistic trajectory, unaffected by other forces'
[09:58] <navrac> a very long way - moer than can be achieved with balloons
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> In principle, you can have a satellite at a light year, maintaining its distance from earth precisely using microscopic engines (a couple of LEDs would work), and not be in orbit around the earth/sun
[09:58] <Definity> so do you reackon a very light quad copter could fly up and up untill it start to orbit around the earth?
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> No.
[09:58] <zyp> orbit is a function of altitude and speed
[09:59] <Definity> it jsut some crazy idea i had, as you can tell im not exzactly smart when it comes to this
[09:59] <Definity> why would it work?
[09:59] <navrac> you need to be at about 160km to be considered to be in low earth orbit
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> Traditional 'in orbit' - refers to going round the earth at around a hundred kilometers up at 7000m/s or so.
[09:59] <navrac> you would run out of air much sooner than that
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> A quadcopter can't get to this height, simply as there is no air.
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> It's hard to imagine any sort of aerodynamic lift craft getting beyond 55km or so.
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> And then you can't get aerodynamically much faster than mach 1 - 300m/s.
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> So you have a tiny, tiny fraction of the energy required for an orbit.
[10:01] <Definity> so it would have to go another 100 Km
[10:02] <navrac> and fast too
[10:02] <Definity> rail gun?
[10:02] <daveake> I personally orbit the earth once every 24 hours
[10:02] <Definity> anyone ever tried to launch something with one of them
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> Orbit in its usual form of going round and round the earth is just falling towards the earth and missing.
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> That's all it is.
[10:02] <zyp> it's in orbit at the speed when gravitational force equals sentripetal force
[10:03] <gonzo_> to get anything into orbot needs a lot of energy, ie fuel. And that fuel (and the rockerts to burn it) add weight, so you then need more fuel, and so it goes on
[10:03] <zyp> too low speed and it will fall towards the ground, too high and it will continue into space
[10:04] <Definity> i see
[10:04] <gonzo_> you only start to get to the point where there is enough energy to overcome the weight of the rocket when you have a bloody big rocket
[10:04] <navrac> you cant generate enough instant energy to launch something into space propelled from the ground. Hence rockets boosting all th eway up - the as gonzo_ says you need more energy so more fuel etc
[10:06] <gonzo_> the cusf idea of flying a rocket up on balloons, then firing it from altitude was interesting. Though not sure how the maths works out
[10:06] <Definity> i was jsut thinking that
[10:07] <Definity> how high does a baloon go?
[10:07] <zyp> you could in theory have a maglev train in a vacuum tunnel around the earth be in orbit if it ran fast enough, but that's not practically possible
[10:07] <navrac> cosidering at the point of rocket launch you wouldnt know which way the rocket would be facing would mea you'd eed a very complex steerable rocket
[10:07] <jibbily> are there any super fuels with a massive amount of energy per kg?
[10:07] <gonzo_> I think they were ~30km, but that's a long way short of the target
[10:08] <gonzo_> hydrazine
[10:08] <gonzo_> plutonium !
[10:09] <jibbily> i think making a nuclear rocket would be fairly difficult and reasonably illegal
[10:09] <Darkside> mmmmmmm
[10:09] <Darkside> what was that projet called..
[10:09] <Darkside> project orion
[10:09] <Darkside> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion
[10:09] <gonzo_> the scientific missions have enough problem trying to fly RTGs
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[10:11] <Definity> #we would need to have fusions to have that sort of energy release?
[10:12] <kokey> today I find out if sending deliveries to work is a good idea or not
[10:13] <kokey> oh I guess it doesn't help if I've gone missing from the company directory last week
[10:27] <gonzo_> had my balloons shipped to work. So hopefully they won't come in labled Acme Rubber Accesories!
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[10:32] Action: SpeedEvil wishes gyrotrons were cheap.
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> You can do interesting things with a few dozen megawatts of gyrotron, and a heat-exchanger on a vehicle.
[10:35] <kokey> I saw the delivery man trolley some stuff past me now and nothing for me on it
[10:36] <kokey> I should have given him my name so that he can remember it
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[10:50] <gonzo_> I've had some odd things shipped to work over the years
[10:51] <gonzo_> best were the soviet radar valves, with all the old CCCP stickers on the box.
[10:53] <gonzo_> the stores lads have just stopped asking questions now, "what do you want those for?! On second thoughts, I don't want to know!"
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[10:58] <kokey> haha
[10:58] <kokey> gonzo_: wow, how big were the valves?
[11:00] <kokey> I had quite the duff weekend, I wanted to focus on my hobbies but no deliveries were made in time, so I decided to get my girlfriend off Vista, but then her laptop's motherboard failed when I was doing a backup and we had to get her a new laptop
[11:00] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: i looked at a solar thermal single stage t orbit
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/349/ - lucky then.
[11:01] <Laurenceb> using very thin mylar
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> The sun is annoyingly large.
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> kokey: - xkcd
[11:02] <Laurenceb> i was thinking for n prize
[11:02] <Laurenceb> ~1m diameter mylar balloon/concentrator
[11:02] <Laurenceb> launched off a weather balloon at 35Km or so
[11:02] <Laurenceb> using ammonia as propellant
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> Funky.
[11:03] <Laurenceb> it might _just_ work
[11:03] <Laurenceb> the trick is throttling it to avoid drag
[11:03] <Laurenceb> and minimize gravity losses - it take ~20minutes to reach orbit
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> Ow.
[11:04] <Laurenceb> also its need really thin mylar and have to by hydrogen filled
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> Do you get 20 min in the sun?
[11:04] <Laurenceb> two stage solar thermal or rockoon then inflated solar thermal might work
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> What was your ISP?
[11:04] <Laurenceb> well theres no clouds up there so yes
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> I mean the earth obscuring
[11:04] <Laurenceb> 150 to about 800
[11:05] <Laurenceb> oh, no thats not an issue i dont think
[11:05] <Laurenceb> youd have to vary the isp to get it to take off in the first place
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> how do you deal with the sun slewing around?
[11:05] <Laurenceb> you follow it
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> oh.
[11:06] <Laurenceb> then gravity losses circularize the orbit
[11:06] <SpeedEvil> Pick a sun angle that leads to your desired orbit.
[11:06] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:06] <griffonbot> Received email: jules@g0nzo.co.uk "[UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[11:06] <Laurenceb> of course getting it to track the sun with a gram or so of hardware is not exactly easy
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:07] <kokey> SpeedEvil: haha
[11:07] <Laurenceb> youd want to test it on the ground with water
[11:07] <kokey> she was very sad to lose her laptop but she gets sentimental about things
[11:07] <kokey> and I think she's unsure about trusting me 'upgrading' anything again
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I'm reminded of some things I was working out to station-keep on a test mass a balloon in orbit.
[11:07] <Laurenceb> i think an equivalent vehicle on the ground could get to a few km altitude using water
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Well - either stationkeepin on a test mass, or a reentry body.
[11:08] <Laurenceb> or hover for a few minutes
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> - working out how nasty you could make decoys.
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> Hovering would be an awesome POC.
[11:08] <Laurenceb> POC?
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> proof of concept
[11:08] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:09] <Laurenceb> yeah.. but youd need the sun overhead :P
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> Also - thousands of watts of CO2 laser are comparatively cheap.
[11:09] <Laurenceb> theres a lot less power on the ground and water is low isp
[11:09] <Laurenceb> yeah but aiming it...
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> There is that.
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[11:09] <Laurenceb> at a balloon is hard
[11:09] <kokey> I remember something about rocket launches from a balloon launched platform but I can't remember how successful they were
[11:09] <Laurenceb> its been done
[11:10] <Laurenceb> the problem with solar thermal is you need to get the collector down to a few grams per Kw
[11:11] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> Solar valveless pulsejet!
[11:11] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:11] <kokey> stirling engines are quite light tho?
[11:11] <Laurenceb> huh
[11:11] <Laurenceb> thatd be mad
[11:11] <Lunar_Lander> kokey, the James VanAllen did that back in the day
[11:11] <Laurenceb> you just heat the rocket directly
[11:11] <Lunar_Lander> four stage rockets on balloons
[11:12] <Laurenceb> or rather the back of the nozzel
[11:12] <Lunar_Lander> they reached up to 7000 km of altitude
[11:12] <Lunar_Lander> for reliability, heated orange juice cans were placed next to the electronics before launch
[11:12] <Laurenceb> mylar inflated concentrator focusses light onto zirconium oxide heat exhcange+nozzel at ~3000C
[11:13] <Laurenceb> Lunar_Lander: stop copy pasting wikipedia
[11:13] <Lunar_Lander> hey
[11:13] <Lunar_Lander> I was writing that myself
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> You don't get 3000C unless you can cover 100% of the 'sky' with the image of the sun.
[11:14] <kokey> hmmm, floating mylar solar thermal rig, sounds quite interesting
[11:14] Action: SpeedEvil should check that number.
[11:14] <Laurenceb> iirc you need 10000 times concentration
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[11:14] <Laurenceb> ie 100 times on two axis
[11:14] <kokey> the shape of the balloon and collector placement is probably going to be the tricky part
[11:15] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> Wikipedia says 5700K.
[11:15] <kokey> what are you using the high temperature for?
[11:15] <Laurenceb> to get high ISP
[11:15] <Laurenceb> from the ammonia
[11:15] <kokey> igniting rockets or for electrolysis to make more h2?
[11:15] <Laurenceb> also you dissasociate it into hydrogen and nitrogen
[11:15] <Laurenceb> noooo
[11:16] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_rocket
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> Actually - no.
[11:17] <kokey> Laurenceb: ah, ok
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> Some BOTE indicates it's not nearly that bad. You can hit 3000K, with only one steradian or so of mirror.
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> - but that is equilibrium temp
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> So you'd be extracting no power at that
[11:17] <Laurenceb> erm emitted power goes with T^4
[11:17] <kokey> hmmm, my gut feel says you need a pretty big rig for that and it will be hard to float on air
[11:18] Action: Lunar_Lander takes note: talking like the announcer guy in Portal 2 makes people think you're copypasting wikipedia
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yes.
[11:18] <Laurenceb> kokey: if it was easy itd already have been done
[11:18] <Laurenceb> the point is is it borderline feasible or not?
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: But if you take 5900K, and then take 1/12th of the fourth root, you get 3000K
[11:18] <kokey> that said, making a floating solar thermal power generating rig can be quite interesting
[11:19] <Laurenceb> it doesnt have to float in air
[11:19] <Laurenceb> it gets lifted by a weather balloon
[11:19] <Laurenceb> itd actually be an order of magnitude or two too heavy to be buoyant
[11:20] <Laurenceb> at 35km
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Which implies that if you have a collector width of a steradian, you can heat a target to 3KK, but that's all. It needs to be >steradian to actually have heat flow into your collector at 3KK
[11:20] <kokey> I'm thinking of a mylar balloon that acts as a solar concentrator, that can generate power to keep itself afloat as well as comms etc.
[11:20] <Laurenceb> erm...
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: It's a pity a laser from the ground and the sun would come from different sides.
[11:20] <Laurenceb> you could use panels for that
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Indeed. Solar panels are _vastly_ easier than trying to concentrate and point!
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[11:21] <kokey> yeah but you already have a big balloon surface and it's more efficient
[11:21] <kokey> though, granted, the shape of the thing is an issue
[11:22] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: CO2 lasers have a long wavelength
[11:23] <Laurenceb> so hard to focus
[11:23] <Laurenceb> in fact impossible for small targets
[11:24] <Laurenceb> solar thermal works for small - ~1m diameter stuff
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming meter class mirrors.
[11:25] <Laurenceb> even so
[11:25] <Laurenceb> 10 microns
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> gets you to ~80km or so with 1m.
[11:26] <Laurenceb> thats not very far
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> But rasises material compatibility issues
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> No
[11:26] <Laurenceb> youd need ~800km
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> Would 200km be a useful boost?
[11:26] <Laurenceb> dont know - itd need sim code
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[11:28] <SpeedEvil> Have you considered convective losses from the chamber? Seems like they'd be large.
[11:28] <Laurenceb> no
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> Err
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> Conductive, I mean.
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> It's annoying that thermal conductivity doesn't drop much as you go up till you hit ~1Pa in many cases.
[11:31] <Laurenceb> i know
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> Awesome idea.
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Wikipedia is so fascinating. Price of xenon -? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_pit
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> (xenon poisoning of reactors)
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[11:52] <Laurenceb> the page on plutonium239 is interesting
[11:52] <Laurenceb> almost enough info to start a nuclear program :P
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[12:02] <schofieldau> ah. my bad
[12:02] <jonsowman> lol
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[12:08] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> On another topic. 50% cocoa powder, and 50% honey makes a lovely ice-cream topping.
[12:13] <Laurenceb> fight
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[12:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
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[13:04] <griffonbot> Received email: jules@g0nzo.co.uk "[UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[13:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[13:25] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[13:31] <eroomde> the email list seems to be the oliver-de-peyer-think-out-loud show recently
[13:31] <Darkside> haha
[13:31] <Darkside> yes
[13:31] <Darkside> and his silly PC104 ideas
[13:31] <eroomde> oliver-de-peyer-astrobioloogist sorry
[13:31] <eroomde> yes that was odd
[13:31] <Matt_soton> if he really wants to use linux, at least use a raspberry pi
[13:31] <Darkside> not even
[13:31] <NigelMoby> that guy to talk the Dalai lama to death
[13:31] <eroomde> "You may think me crazy but I personally find the Arduino shields rather expensive and physically large."
[13:31] <Darkside> Matt_soton: beaglebone is more suited to this
[13:31] <eroomde> coming from a man who used a pc104 system to sequence some relays
[13:32] <Darkside> heh
[13:32] <schofieldau> forgetting this channel is logged and indexed by google? :P
[13:32] <Darkside> hrmm
[13:32] <Darkside> point
[13:33] <Darkside> HELLO GOOGLE. WHATS UP.
[13:33] <Darkside> we need a !purge option
[13:33] <Darkside> deletes the last hour of logs
[13:33] <schofieldau> haha
[13:33] <schofieldau> there would be no logs
[13:33] <schofieldau> we need #highaltitudeOTR
[13:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[13:33] <Randomskk> oh god, I guess that means I finally gave in and wrote an email :/
[13:34] <Darkside> Randomskk: haha
[13:34] <Darkside> nice
[13:34] <Darkside> also what hte hell is a solar balloon anyway
[13:34] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[13:34] <Matt_soton> Randomskk: i think i kept my sarcasm at bay better then you :P
[13:34] <Randomskk> I don't think I was sarcastic
[13:34] <daveake> new word "forumlate" :D
[13:34] <Matt_soton> 'battery of picaxes'?
[13:35] <daveake> must check for tippos :)
[13:35] <Randomskk> that's not sarcasm
[13:35] <Randomskk> Darkside: afaict it's a bin bag that you seal off
[13:35] <Matt_soton> ok sarcasm was wrong word
[13:35] <Randomskk> then the air inside warms up
[13:35] <eroomde> "I'm sure if a factory electrical engineer turned up wanting to build a payload he'd probably try to forumlate an argument for putting a PLC into near space, but it'd still be the wrong tool for the job."
[13:35] <Randomskk> and the temperature differential generates lift
[13:35] <eroomde> gosh
[13:35] <Darkside> Randomskk: thats not goign to generate much lift
[13:35] <schofieldau> should I email this guy instructions on joining IRC? sounds like he'd be a productive member of the channel :P
[13:35] <Randomskk> Darkside: no.
[13:36] <Darkside> then how the hell would it lift a PC104
[13:36] <Randomskk> indeed.
[13:36] <jonsowman> quite
[13:36] <Randomskk> well yes, that is an interesting point
[13:36] <Darkside> he needs *pico* payloads
[13:36] <daveake> Use the heat from the PC104 to warm up the envelope
[13:36] <Darkside> not freaking PC104s
[13:36] <Randomskk> a PLC in near space is an excellent idea
[13:36] <daveake> oh shit
[13:36] <daveake> what have I started
[13:36] <daveake> :D
[13:36] <eroomde> yeah our pc104 system on the blimpblimp came in at about 500g once you had all the peripheral bits
[13:36] <eroomde> thats before the significant battery mass
[13:36] <eroomde> and before the solid state disc
[13:37] <eroomde> and before the fan that we needed as were were operating at up to about 300m so passive cooling wouldn't be quite sufficient
[13:37] <eroomde> 3000m*
[13:37] <Darkside> haha
[13:37] <Darkside> so why were you flying a PC104 in the first place?
[13:37] <eroomde> blimp
[13:38] <eroomde> doing real time 3d reconstruction from an inertial system and video camera
[13:38] <Darkside> oh
[13:38] <Darkside> yeah ok you'd want a bit of power for that...
[13:38] <eroomde> so had an embedded 2.2ghz core 2 duo
[13:38] <Darkside> haha
[13:38] <eroomde> which was pegged
[13:38] <Darkside> so thats whats on a PC104
[13:38] <eroomde> and an ssd as spinny discs couldnt take the data rate off the camera
[13:38] <Randomskk> well some PC104s
[13:39] <Randomskk> I think you'd probably need at least a dual core 2.2GHz CPU to drive a few PICAXEs
[13:39] <eroomde> but that was a vastly different problem to ballooning
[13:39] <Randomskk> eroomde: you could totally do location based on camera data, right? just analyse the shape of all the fields and relative locations of towns to work out where you are
[13:39] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[13:39] <Randomskk> once you have coastlines in view it's easy
[13:39] <eroomde> Darkside: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K29dn0Mzspk
[13:40] <eroomde> Randomskk: it was discussed a few years ago on the cusf list
[13:40] <Randomskk> hah why am I not surprised
[13:40] <eroomde> trying to triangule pos from what you could see
[13:40] <Randomskk> no new ideas ever
[13:40] <Darkside> eroomde: wow
[13:40] <Darkside> blinp!
[13:40] <Darkside> eroomde: you lorite
[13:40] <eroomde> yep
[13:40] <eroomde> ?
[13:40] <Darkside> NOBODY HERE WILL GET THAT JOKE
[13:40] <Darkside> dammit
[13:40] <Darkside> everyone needs to read Anathem
[13:40] <eroomde> correct
[13:41] <Darkside> brilliant book
[13:41] <eroomde> but seriously i know a few people subscribe to the ukhas list just for launch announcements and specifically like the low volume
[13:41] <eroomde> mainly hams
[13:41] <jonsowman> indeed
[13:41] <Randomskk> equally the list is for discussion of this sort of thing too
[13:42] <eroomde> so might be worth a discussion about how to use it an if we need another one for technical naval gasing
[13:42] <eroomde> which i'm all for
[13:42] <Randomskk> just this discussion in particular is ridiculous
[13:42] <eroomde> just don't wont to put listeners off
[13:42] <Randomskk> and long winded
[13:42] <Matt_soton> we need some sort of online calander for launches too?
[13:42] <Randomskk> I would say if we have another one it should really be for launch announcements
[13:42] <Randomskk> ukhas-launch-announce
[13:42] <Randomskk> the problem is that everyone is already subscribed to this one :P
[13:42] <eroomde> yes that would be my thinking
[13:42] <priyesh> yeah - a calendar would be very useful
[13:43] <priyesh> google calendar
[13:43] <schofieldau> google calendar?
[13:43] <Randomskk> it's been suggested
[13:43] <Randomskk> several times
[13:43] <priyesh> can we go ahead with it? :P
[13:43] <Matt_soton> lol no suprise there
[13:43] <eroomde> someone should just do it and publicese it
[13:43] <Randomskk> I think making it work proved a bit annoying
[13:43] <Darkside> it was weird
[13:43] <priyesh> hmm
[13:43] <Darkside> somehow a few launches turned on my google calendar
[13:43] <Randomskk> google doesn't support a group having a calendar per se
[13:43] <eroomde> and maybe do the donkey work keeping it up to date until people get used to it
[13:43] <Darkside> and i have no idea how
[13:43] <Randomskk> Darkside: someone made some events, then invited the entire list to them
[13:43] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[13:43] <Randomskk> annoying everyone
[13:43] <Darkside> Randomskk: ahh
[13:44] <Randomskk> eroomde: the problem is setting up a calendar that all members of ukhas can add events to
[13:44] <Randomskk> there doesn't seem to be any good way to do that really
[13:44] <Randomskk> nor any way to have a calendar that's owned by the group
[13:44] <DanielRichman> is there a nice open format we can export calendar events from habitat's database in? I presume so...
[13:44] <Randomskk> which means one person would have to own the calendar, even if they delegated access to others too
[13:44] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: iCAL
[13:44] <Randomskk> among others
[13:44] <Randomskk> sadly python doesn't have the best ical libraries in the world but they do exist and it should work
[13:44] <eroomde> there must be some ycombinator feature-come-company that does such a thing
[13:45] <Randomskk> then people could just subscribe to the ical feed
[13:45] <eroomde> meetup or something
[13:45] <DanielRichman> that would be up to date, easily
[13:45] <Randomskk> tbh the idea of having habitat just export an ical is really good
[13:45] <Randomskk> then any calendar you want -- google, apple's thing, others -- can just import it
[13:45] <Randomskk> and it'd automatically reflect changes
[13:45] <Randomskk> AND it'd make damn sure people have new flight docs
[13:45] <priyesh> does habitat contain the right data yet? (with some creating infinte launch docs)
[13:45] <Randomskk> with accurate information
[13:45] <Randomskk> priyesh: more and more :P
[13:45] <Randomskk> every time people need to change or extend a doc I'm making a new one properly
[13:45] <jonsowman> it could just ignore infinite duration docs
[13:46] <jonsowman> eventually there won't be any
[13:46] <Randomskk> jonsowman: well the docs specify a launch time anyway
[13:46] <priyesh> infinite docs shouldn't exist
[13:46] <Randomskk> so it'd go on that
[13:46] <Randomskk> the duration is then irrelevant
[13:46] <DanielRichman> yeah ignoring those is how the beta dlfldigi filters testing docs
[13:46] <jonsowman> Randomskk: sort of
[13:46] <Randomskk> but if people didn't have a new doc for a new launch, there'd be no new launch entry in the calender
[13:46] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: yeah that's sensible
[13:47] <Randomskk> jonsowman: well the point is that if getting your launch on the calendar required having a launch time people probably would
[13:47] <Randomskk> anyway talk is cheap
[13:47] <Randomskk> give me 20 minutes
[13:47] <jonsowman> yes, true
[13:47] <DanielRichman> :P
[13:47] Action: jonsowman goes to make a cup of tea
[13:47] <priyesh> 20 minutes :P
[13:47] <DanielRichman> deadline 1507
[13:48] <priyesh> *tick* *tock* *tick* *tock*
[13:48] <jonsowman> two mins gone already
[13:49] <navrac> I'm going to do some googling to find the most ridiculous board to use as a flight processor - preferably that runs basic
[13:49] <Randomskk> not wasting my time talking to you lot
[13:49] <eroomde> what is oliver de peyer astrobiiologist doing anyway? i have forgotten the original aim
[13:49] <jonsowman> Randomskk: haha
[13:49] <Randomskk> eroomde: remember ukhas11
[13:49] <priyesh> Randomskk: 18 minutes...
[13:49] <eroomde> there was some reason why stuff couldn;t be done conventionally
[13:49] <Randomskk> the biology experiment
[13:49] <Randomskk> with the lots of actuators and tubes
[13:49] <Randomskk> doing PCR at altitude
[13:49] <eroomde> yes
[13:49] <Randomskk> ended up a crushed pile of metal
[13:49] <Randomskk> that's him and his experiment
[13:49] <navrac> solar balloons with a deployable strip to gather particles
[13:49] <eroomde> does he want to do that again sans concetina?
[13:49] <eroomde> oh right
[13:49] <eroomde> ta navrac
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> navrac: ZX81s are cheap on ebay, and run basic.
[13:50] <Randomskk> I think a £500 dell desktop
[13:50] <priyesh> Randomskk: you'll need a monitor and keyboard and mouse too
[13:50] <navrac> thats what i was thinking - or a spectrum and use the tape output as a form of rtty
[13:51] <DanielRichman> I think you should use a turing machine
[13:51] <eroomde> an abstract notion of a payload then
[13:51] Action: SpeedEvil ponders the use of the microdrive to store pictures.
[13:52] <eroomde> microfiche surely
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> navrac mentioned spectrums.
[13:52] <schofieldau> a mechanical payload
[13:52] <Randomskk> eroomde: do what that amazing spy satellite did
[13:52] <navrac> of course that sinclair device with the microdrive
[13:52] <eroomde> why go to all the complication and C of a spectrum
[13:52] <eroomde> morse code on a microfiche
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> I had a dream of getting a microdrive once.
[13:52] <fsphil> the zx thing that kept breaking?
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:53] <fsphil> yea, as a C64 owner I always wanted something similar
[13:53] <eroomde> a lisp machine would be cool though
[13:53] <eroomde> you'd get nerd points
[13:53] <navrac> sinclair QL
[13:53] <eroomde> maybe you could implement a lisp machine on an fpga and fly that
[13:53] <Darkside> oh yeah
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> The intel iapx432'd be very cool.
[13:54] <Darkside> we're considering flying a 136KHZ transmitter
[13:54] <eroomde> 'heh guys, my rtty is meta-circular. it interprets itself!'
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> But, kinda unlikely.
[13:54] <Darkside> just for shits n giggles
[13:54] <fsphil> Darkside, you get many points for that
[13:54] <eroomde> 'yeah but you forgot to include latitude in your rtty'
[13:54] <eroomde> '.... this one goes up to 11'
[13:54] <Darkside> fsphil: we were considering flying 200m or so of wire :P
[13:54] <eroomde> 2km surely
[13:54] <fsphil> Darkside, more points if you actually manage to receive it :)
[13:54] <Darkside> we'd have to be bloody sure we aren't going to land near powerlines
[13:54] <eroomde> make it super thin
[13:55] <eroomde> it'd just disintegrate instantly
[13:55] <Darkside> wont work
[13:55] <Darkside> we've had this discussion
[13:55] <eroomde> when?
[13:55] <eroomde> pizza?
[13:55] <Darkside> in the car back from a launch
[13:55] <Darkside> the breakers will reclose too wuickly
[13:55] <fsphil> Darkside, you should do an HF launch when I'm in Cairns
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> Phone up National Grid, and ask what diameter of copper wire it's OK to drape over a 132kv line.
[13:55] <eroomde> oh not you and me personally
[13:55] <Darkside> there'll still be a path of ionosed air
[13:55] <Darkside> ionised*
[13:55] <eroomde> a lightening machine
[13:55] <eroomde> you know i wonder ig you could induce lightning in a storm cloud
[13:56] <Darkside> cool thign is one of our team members partner works for the distribution company
[13:56] <daveake> It'd lighten a bit when it loses that wire
[13:56] <eroomde> my dropping a length of wire down
[13:56] <Darkside> so we ring them and tell them what happened
[13:56] <navrac> I've found a suitable flight controller
[13:56] <navrac> http://www.audon.co.uk/cubloc_cpu/cb220.html
[13:56] <eroomde> and maybe using some hv coil to induce a potential across it beifly
[13:56] <daveake> navrac purfick!
[13:57] <Darkside> ok i'm off for a bit
[13:57] <navrac> yep - how many hab points for doing a tracker in ladder logic
[13:57] <eroomde> don't be stupid
[13:57] <eroomde> you want to use this: http://thingsiwanttomake.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ThingsIWantToMake_Cray-1-Supercomputer-1976.gif
[13:57] <eroomde> and a bunch of 8051s hanging off rs232
[13:57] <eroomde> that even has little hoops on the top that you could attach rigging lines to
[13:58] <eroomde> and the cutout bit you could put a camera into
[13:58] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[13:58] <navrac> you could trim some weight off by loosing the seating
[13:58] <eroomde> it's just so much easier than an arduino
[13:58] <eroomde> right, i have had my fill of silliness now
[13:59] <daveake> Oh, so you're not going to tell me how much helium I'd need to lift this off the ground then? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/ColossusRebuild_11.jpg/607px-ColossusRebuild_11.jpg
[13:59] <eroomde> helium is cheaper than programmer time daveake
[13:59] <eroomde> just think
[13:59] <eroomde> you can either just buy some helium
[13:59] <eroomde> or spend litterally hours wrestling a devious c library
[14:00] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[14:00] <daveake> Well I can see that would be a time-saver
[14:00] <eroomde> honestly if you programming ners wont stop and consider things from a systms perspective then i just can't help you
[14:00] <navrac> you'd be better off with hydrogen for that
[14:00] <eroomde> nerds*
[14:02] <Randomskk> how long do I have?
[14:02] <jonsowman> 5 mins
[14:02] <Randomskk> hmm 5min
[14:02] <Randomskk> no problem
[14:03] <Randomskk> just need to make it a web app
[14:03] Action: mfa298 has the music ready, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2dhD9zR6hk
[14:03] <mfa298> click that link in about 4 minutes time :P
[14:03] <jonsowman> :D
[14:04] <schofieldau> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQvNu8LoTo0
[14:05] <Randomskk> just need to deploy it to kraken
[14:05] <Randomskk> hmm
[14:06] <Randomskk> ugh this is the only part that takes time
[14:06] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: i got .noinit working on stm32
[14:06] <Laurenceb> needs a new section in the linker script
[14:07] <priyesh> 55 seconds Randomskk
[14:07] <eroomde> ttfn
[14:08] <Randomskk> bah installing required packages
[14:09] <fsphil> did you guys just invent a new sport?
[14:09] <Randomskk> cherokee y u 404
[14:09] <priyesh> fsphil: you could call it that.. but it'll need a name
[14:10] <jonsowman> hmm
[14:11] <Matt_soton> http://imgur.com/JSpJf
[14:11] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/calendar/
[14:11] <Matt_soton> free as always :)
[14:11] <Randomskk> bah
[14:11] <Randomskk> the code was all done ages ago
[14:11] <Randomskk> https://github.com/adamgreig/habitat-calendar/commit/cfd8a5595534933ddad711b362ef07472391d4b8
[14:11] <Randomskk> as ever deployment took too long
[14:12] <jonsowman> nice Matt_soton
[14:12] <Randomskk> nevertheless
[14:12] <Randomskk> you can add that URL to your google calendar
[14:12] <Randomskk> and it displays a PICO launch tomorrow, two Mondo launches saturday and XABEN on sunday
[14:12] <Randomskk> so
[14:12] <daveake> cool, about to ...
[14:12] <DanielRichman> that looks like an ultimately successful 24 mins
[14:13] <Randomskk> the code was working on localhost by 18 minutes
[14:13] <Randomskk> deploying to cherokee took more than 2 :(
[14:13] <Randomskk> should have gone with heroku
[14:13] <priyesh> :P
[14:13] <jonsowman> we will have to say goodbye, but thanks for playing speed-coding
[14:13] <Randomskk> and it's a pretty messy deployment to cherokee too >_>
[14:14] <Randomskk> but whatever
[14:14] <Randomskk> 24 minutes isn't too bad
[14:14] <Matt_soton> its probably going to take me longer then 18min to actually work out how to add that link to google calander
[14:14] <priyesh> Add >> By URL
[14:14] <Randomskk> yea, that
[14:14] <priyesh> *paste*
[14:14] <daveake> :-). So how do we get launches added? (not that I have any to add yet)
[14:15] <Randomskk> daveake: at the moment, the same way you submit a flight doc
[14:15] <Matt_soton> no add button lol
[14:15] <Randomskk> just make sure you specified a launch time when asked
[14:15] <Matt_soton> just create
[14:15] <Randomskk> Matt_soton: right hand side
[14:15] <Matt_soton> urgh
[14:15] <Randomskk> next to Other Calendars
[14:15] <Randomskk> click the dropdown
[14:15] <Randomskk> click Add by URL
[14:16] <daveake> Randomskk OK, no problem
[14:16] <Matt_soton> ah thanks
[14:16] <Matt_soton> hehe works
[14:16] <Randomskk> that's the kind of thing I mean when I say having all the data in a couch database lets people do interesting things quickly
[14:16] <Randomskk> fwiw
[14:16] <daveake> Now I can delete my own local UKHAS calendar :)
[14:16] <Randomskk> 30 lines of code
[14:16] <Randomskk> https://github.com/adamgreig/habitat-calendar/blob/master/cal.py
[14:17] <Matt_soton> the database needs to hve a link to the email with the frequency and all that stuff
[14:17] <Matt_soton> also will that automatically update?
[14:17] <Randomskk> to the email?
[14:17] <Randomskk> the flight doc contains the frequency
[14:17] <Randomskk> and everything else
[14:17] <Randomskk> I'll probably put all that in the description
[14:17] <jonsowman> i think it's a testament to the design of habitat more than that of couch
[14:17] <Randomskk> and yes, it will
[14:17] <Matt_soton> oh ok :)
[14:17] <Randomskk> it'l always show the upcoming flights
[14:17] <Randomskk> also it only outputs flights in the future
[14:17] <jonsowman> urgh it's a horrible green colour
[14:18] Action: jonsowman changes colour
[14:18] <Randomskk> so I don't know what will happen when flights disappear from it
[14:18] <Randomskk> whether google calendar will still show old entries or not
[14:18] <Randomskk> but w/e
[14:18] <Matt_soton> hmm hail :\
[14:18] <Randomskk> I'll give it a name and other things later
[14:18] <Randomskk> the URL will stay the same though so it should all automagically just work
[14:18] <Matt_soton> not bad for 18 min lol
[14:18] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: at some point remind me to make that an actual uwsgi app rather than http reverse proxy to flask running on my ssh session
[14:18] <Randomskk> >_>
[14:19] <DanielRichman> lol
[14:19] <priyesh> haha
[14:19] <daveake> ^^ wins the "highest number of techie terms in a sentence" prize for today
[14:20] <schofieldau> and now for something completely different
[14:20] <schofieldau> "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." - Ezekiel 23:20
[14:21] <schofieldau> :/
[14:29] <Laurenceb> lolwut
[14:29] <Laurenceb> is there like a bible quotes gone wrong database?
[14:30] <GW8RAK> I just had to google that quote :)
[14:30] <schofieldau> that's an actual bible quote
[14:31] <Randomskk> the bible is full of actual quotes
[14:31] <Randomskk> surprise surprise, they had sex in biblical days :/
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[14:33] <schofieldau> just some odd analogies :P
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> http://bible.cc/ezekiel/23-20.htm - some translations shade it rather more than otehrs.
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[14:39] <daveake> I've added this shiny new UKHAS calendar to my WP blog. Pretty easy (I did it via my Google calendar but there are WP widgets for the task too). http://i.imgur.com/T3RDI.png
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[14:40] <Randomskk> sweet
[14:40] <daveake> http://pastebin.com/xR2ztz92 in case anyone wants to just grab it
[14:41] <daveake> Google Calendar doesn't do ISH so it's in GMT. You'll have to do your own corrections :)
[14:42] <Randomskk> eroomde: http://www.hipsterhost.net/
[14:42] <Randomskk> the timezones etc are all a bit dodgy on that too
[14:42] <Randomskk> btw
[14:43] <Randomskk> as in, people specify a range of useless things for 'timezone' on their flight docs
[14:43] <Randomskk> so this is all UTC
[14:43] <Randomskk> not really an issue until we have things not in the UK launching though
[14:43] <Randomskk> also all solved with the next database design
[14:43] <Randomskk> but that's a few weeks away
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[15:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi? - more on Xbees"
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[15:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[15:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
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[15:40] <Matt_soton> urgh i give up with him, if he wants to use xbee pros let him
[15:40] <UpuWork> lol
[15:40] <jonsowman> :)
[15:41] <Matt_soton> he seemed to ignore everything i said about how they are not a good solution
[15:41] <jonsowman> and everything everyone else said
[15:42] <Matt_soton> yea, im refering to the xbees, but the who pc104 too
[15:42] <Matt_soton> *whole
[15:42] <jonsowman> if people want to ignore advice from people who have done this before then that's their problem
[15:42] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[15:46] <daveake> His expertise appears to be in a whole new branch of logic the existence of which I was not previously aware
[15:46] <gonzo_> fuzzy?
[15:46] <UpuWork> did you see his "scientific" experiment presentation at the conference ?
[15:46] <daveake> nope
[15:48] <Randomskk> happily I think it's available online
[15:48] <jonsowman> \o/
[15:49] <Randomskk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmQrjeI1B_M
[15:49] <fsphil> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference
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[15:49] <daveake> Er, thanks so much
[15:49] <daveake> :p
[15:49] <Randomskk> it's only 51min
[15:49] <Randomskk> well worth watching
[15:49] <UpuWork> in fairness don't let daveake waste 51 mins of his life
[15:49] <UpuWork> lol
[15:51] <Matt_soton> if youre looking for advice on how to make electronics fit into small spaces then might be worth a watch
[15:51] <UpuWork> haha
[15:51] <jonsowman> :D
[15:52] <fsphil> miniaturisation at its best
[15:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[15:54] <kokey> what's the issue with xbee's in general? to me they seem fine for quadcopter control and the likes but not like they'll have the range for high altitude stuff
[15:54] <Randomskk> they're amazing for very low power networks of embedded things
[15:54] <Randomskk> like, smart metering, or sensor networks
[15:54] <Randomskk> they're reasoanbly good for things like quadcopter control because they're easy
[15:54] <Randomskk> (though not the best for live control to be honest)
[15:55] <Randomskk> they seem like a fairly poor choice for HAB
[15:55] <kokey> the kind of stuff the msp430 rf kits are also good for?
[15:55] <Randomskk> they have some overlaps
[15:55] <Matt_soton> i think msp430 wireless are cc11xx based?
[15:55] <Matt_soton> something which i intend to use actually
[15:56] <kokey> msp430s have bluetooth and wifi options and I don't know what else
[15:56] <Matt_soton> oh probably a range of stuff then
[15:56] <Matt_soton> cc430 is the msp430 + cc11xx radio
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[15:57] <kokey> yeah I also intend on using the msp430, but wasn't thinking of doing the long range comms with it, rather one of the other more popular modules
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[15:58] <Matt_soton> my cc1101 radio would be crystal pulled anyway, and generally not using it as intended
[15:58] <Matt_soton> so probably best for a stand alone IC
[15:58] <kokey> hmmm, the cc430 looks rather interesting
[15:59] <kokey> what dev kits/breakouts are around for it?
[15:59] <Matt_soton> well probably just make a board yourself
[15:59] <Matt_soton> and buy a $4.30 starter board as a programmer
[16:03] <Matt_soton> tbh you could use a cc430 + gps as a two IC balloon solution
[16:04] <cuddykid> doesn't look like my launch will be going ahead on fridya
[16:04] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:223:5aff:fef5:cce) joined #highaltitude.
[16:05] <daveake> why not?
[16:05] <cuddykid> too much for helium + balloon :/
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[16:14] <daveake> Shirley you knew the prices for those before?
[16:15] <cuddykid> yes, but I was possibly going to get "advertising" from old school, however the guy who sorts it out is on holiday at
[16:15] <cuddykid> *atm
[16:15] <daveake> oic
[16:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[16:16] <jonsowman> will it ever cease?
[16:16] <DanielRichman> It was an impressive sight but never worked properly :-(
[16:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Craig Chapman "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
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[16:18] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[16:18] <jonsowman> well said daveake
[16:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
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[16:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[16:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi? - more on Xbees"
[16:25] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[16:26] poiter_ (569d0a8f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.157.10.143) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[16:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi? - more on Xbees"
[16:27] poiter (569d0a8f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.157.10.143) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[16:27] <Matt_soton> ok thats definetly the last message i send about 869 modules
[16:27] <jonsowman> haha
[16:27] <daveake> :)
[16:28] <jonsowman> you say that now
[16:28] <daveake> I said something similar earlier about PC104 ....
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[16:28] <Matt_soton> mind you i do intend to use 869, hopefully not too hyprocritical
[16:28] <Matt_soton> not that i care
[16:28] <jonsowman> haha
[16:29] <Matt_soton> tbh everyone should start using HF
[16:29] <Matt_soton> much better :P
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[16:30] <Matt_soton> tbh i started wanting to use HF because lower frequencies are easier, but i challange someone to find a 27MHz IQ modulator
[16:31] <daveake> Well it'd make it easier to reach the payload after it gets stuck in a tree
[16:31] <Matt_soton> true
[16:31] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[16:31] <Matt_soton> 27MHz is only 2m of wire eaach end
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[16:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi? - more on Xbees"
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[16:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi? - more on Xbees"
[16:38] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[16:38] <jonsowman> i've closed both topics
[16:38] <jonsowman> that's far too much mailing list volume for one day
[16:38] <jonsowman> further discussion can be on IRC
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[16:38] <Matt_soton> oh i was going to tell him why hes an idiot wrt sending emails :(
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[16:39] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: whilst i agree, it's getting a bit stupid
[16:39] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi? - more on Xbees"
[16:40] <Matt_soton> i know, but i just hit send anyway as it was witeen
[16:40] <Matt_soton> written
[16:40] <Randomskk> you've closed the threads?
[16:40] <jonsowman> interesting, groups should have blocked that message as the topic is marked as "closed"
[16:40] <Matt_soton> lol
[16:40] <Matt_soton> close it now so i get last word
[16:40] <jonsowman> hmm, it thinks it was a new topic
[16:40] <Matt_soton> also he'll just start another thread (again)
[16:41] <jonsowman> intruiging
[16:41] <Matt_soton> i seem like a nob with my message under your 'keep it down' one
[16:42] <jonsowman> yes, you do :P
[16:42] <Matt_soton> ¬.¬
[16:42] <jonsowman> wonder why groups allowed it
[16:42] <gonzo_> Upu, thanks for the QSL card. My second ever! (not bad for 25yrs licenced!)
[16:42] <Matt_soton> move your email under mine at one
[16:42] <Matt_soton> once
[16:42] <Matt_soton> :P
[16:42] <jonsowman> lol
[16:43] <Matt_soton> im still expecting him to respond to those two
[16:44] <jonsowman> he's now moderated
[16:44] <Matt_soton> can you change subjects so that he doesnt start new threads?
[16:45] <jonsowman> what dya mean?
[16:45] <Matt_soton> just so you know youre spoiling my entertainment by doing tihs, but im sure alot of people will appriciate
[16:45] <jonsowman> haha i know
[16:45] <Matt_soton> i mean change the subject field of new messages?
[16:46] <Matt_soton> so that they stack nicely
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[16:54] <number10> jcoxon: I see you are doing a pico tomorrow - apologies for running another test on the tracker - this will be my last
[16:54] <jcoxon> navrac, 25hirs
[16:54] <jcoxon> number10, its okay
[16:54] <jcoxon> feel free
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[17:02] <daveake> Got a query back from BOC today on my acct app form. A form that was sent in just short of 10 weeks ago.
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[17:03] <daveake> Pretty efficient I think. Especially as they could have filled in the missing bit from elsewhere on the form.
[17:03] <cuddykid> who was/are the person/people on here that are looking at solar balloon flights?
[17:04] <cuddykid> if someone can send me an envelope before friday that can take up ~60g then I'll fly it
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[17:04] <cuddykid> (if we get any sun!)
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[17:10] <cuddykid> hmm -> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLAR-AIRSHIP-8M-INFLATED-KITE-HOT-AIR-BALLOON-NEW-/160642410381?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Outdoor_Toys_ET&hash=item256708a78d#ht_3042wt_1014
[17:14] <daveake> Slightly cheaper - http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000AAGNUG/ref=asc_df_B000AAGNUG7373710?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B000AAGNUG
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[17:16] <daveake> cuddykid suggest you read the reviews http://reviews.argos.co.uk/1493-en_gb/2705901/reviews.htm
[17:17] <IRC_ukhas> Hello, I am still stuck in a teleconference and hence able to do more productive things like HAB.
[17:18] <IRC_ukhas> Nice Argos review. But it would need a NOTAM for free flight?
[17:18] <daveake> yes
[17:21] <IRC_ukhas> That is why a 2m balloon might be fun... CAA Exempt
[17:23] <daveake> cuddykid has a notam coming, I believe, but a lack of funding means he's looking at something cheaper than a latex balloon and helium, then he found this thing.
[17:24] <r2x0t> this solar airship looks interesting
[17:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter Browne "[UKHAS] Launch in the Summer"
[17:24] <r2x0t> 8m long... that's HUGE
[17:25] <Matt_soton> someone should attach two latex balloons at one end to give it more lift...
[17:25] <r2x0t> fill it with hydrogen
[17:25] <IRC_ukhas> Or we could make our own using offcuts, something like this:
[17:25] <r2x0t> and call it Hindenburg II
[17:26] <IRC_ukhas> http://www.grafixplastics.com/offcuts.asp
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[17:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] Launch in the Summer"
[17:32] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Launch in the Summer"
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[17:56] <cuddykid> great feeling when you get working code!
[18:05] <fsphil> ain't it!
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[18:18] <cuddykid> spent most of the day on a damn java coursework - finally got it working after a rewrite
[18:18] <nigelvh> Sometimes it's the smallest things.
[18:19] <cuddykid> yeah, basically it needed to be implemented a recursive way and I tried to do it another way initially
[18:19] <nigelvh> Yeah, recursive stuff can be interesting.
[18:19] <cuddykid> sort of semi-recursive, and it failed :P
[18:20] <daveake> Yeah, to write a recursive program, you first have to write a recursive program
[18:20] <cuddykid> lol
[18:21] <nigelvh> The best is recursive acronymns
[18:21] <nigelvh> like GNU or WINE
[18:21] <nigelvh> or PHP
[18:22] <cuddykid> got some of my variable names in a mess earlier, that caused quite a headache
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[18:22] <nigelvh> As long as your variable names are descriptive
[18:23] <nigelvh> Rather than $A or $FUCK
[18:23] <cuddykid> i had "baseContainer" then found out it was no longer the base container after recursion.. and others like that
[18:23] <cuddykid> haha
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[18:24] <nigelvh> Yes, problems with recursion.
[18:24] <cuddykid> yeah, there was someone in my comp sci group who randomly lettered his variables like "a1" - he got a lecture off a phd student, don't think he'll be doing it again
[18:25] <nigelvh> Yeah, it's problematic.
[18:25] <nigelvh> Like I mentioned, I worked on a project with a guy who labelled all of his variables as swear words. It's funny till you actually try to debug something.
[18:26] <cuddykid> oh no!
[18:26] <cuddykid> yeah, that would've been hell
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[18:27] <cuddykid> nigelvh: do you code php? (from your preceding $)
[18:27] <nigelvh> $ass is being assigned the value of $fuck, then $fuck is being incremented by 1.
[18:28] <nigelvh> And yes, I do some php, as well as some C. Though I originally learned Java
[18:28] <cuddykid> ahh cool, I'm getting back into php, originally started with php
[18:29] <cuddykid> after java, vardump is just so great
[18:29] <fsphil> print_r is great
[18:29] <nigelvh> Each language has it's uses. A lot of people hate PHP, but I like it just because it's so focused on text manipulation.
[18:29] <nigelvh> Which is what it's for. The web = text.
[18:30] <fsphil> i like to think of PHP as a relaxed C :)
[18:30] <cuddykid> learning the yii framework as building anything more than a few pages gets a little tiresome without a decent framework
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[18:31] <cuddykid> all the MVC stuff - odd at first, now seems very clever
[18:32] <nigelvh> Yeah, everybody's got preferences, I hate the idea of using java on a web server, those people hate the idea of php, it balances in the end.
[18:32] <cuddykid> very true
[18:32] <fsphil> I used C for a website once. Won't do that again
[18:32] <fsphil> and that's my "native" language :)
[18:32] <cuddykid> nothing more annoying than coming across a java applet
[18:33] <cuddykid> lol fsphil
[18:33] <fsphil> I've got a java applet on my site :)
[18:33] <cuddykid> mother tongue
[18:33] <nigelvh> There's a difference between an applet and a java back end.
[18:33] <nigelvh> applets have their place.
[18:34] <fsphil> in this case it's for playing video
[18:34] <nigelvh> Using java say with tomcat and apache just leaves a terrible feeling in my gut.
[18:35] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[18:35] <DanielRichman> PHP is terrible and you should stay away from it. Adam linked this earlier http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ ; also "useful" is http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp </language evangelism>
[18:35] <fsphil> i'm using html5 video as the preferred option but for IE users it falls back on java
[18:35] <nigelvh> But that's my sysadmin side talking.
[18:36] <nigelvh> See, exactly like I said, everyone's got their preferences.
[18:36] <DanielRichman> indeed. However, some preferences are wrong :P
[18:36] <mfa298> My feeling is that PHP can be a good language as long as you're aware of it's limitations and it's lack of default imput checking (and that's from sysadmin and webdev sides)
[18:36] <nigelvh> Exactly. I think most of the issue comes about that PHP makes it too easy to suck.
[18:36] <mfa298> I tried looking at JSP and tomcat for webdev once and gave up.
[18:37] <fsphil> what else to write a little simple website in. php works well for that
[18:37] <nigelvh> If you take some time and do it right, PHP does just fine.
[18:37] <mfa298> I've also had to setup a tomcat app and that was not a good experience. Config files based on XML and Javascript :(
[18:38] <nigelvh> Also, I hate .net more than I hate tomcat.
[18:38] <DanielRichman> IMO, PHP sucks out of the box and you have to work quite hard to reduce the suck. And it's not really possible to completely reduce the suck to non-sucking
[18:38] <nigelvh> That's just terrible.
[18:38] <DanielRichman> fsphil: yeah. The only 2 things I can say in favour of PHP is that it everyone supports it and it's very quick to start what with it's "put .php on the end of the file and it runs" thing
[18:39] <DanielRichman> but besides that everything's broken and it's slow and it sucks and blargh
[18:39] <DanielRichman> anyway enough evangelism :P sorry
[18:40] <fsphil> amen to that
[18:40] <nigelvh> To each their own. I just try to remember that each language has it's own ups and downs and has it's own place. I wouldn't want to run a daemon in php, though you technically can.
[18:40] <fsphil> nigelvh, vb6!
[18:40] <nigelvh> Don't you dare.
[18:41] <fsphil> unfortunately that language has it's place, and it seems to be the place I work
[18:41] <nigelvh> I actually have a buddy who decided to write a "virus" in vb6 that would open and close your cd tray every few seconds, and hide itself from the process list.
[18:42] <daveake> fsphil I'd find another place to work
[18:42] <daveake> Actually, I was in that position once, and I did
[18:42] <fsphil> daveake, working on it :)
[18:42] <jonsowman> nigelvh: i may or may not have done that as an april fool's prank at secondary school
[18:42] <nigelvh> hahaha
[18:42] <Randomskk> aww I missed the PHP discussion
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[18:42] <Randomskk> PHP is awful and any attempt to redeem it is futile
[18:42] <nigelvh> I didn't do many pranks at school, but I did lots at work.
[18:43] <Randomskk> it is genuinely terrible
[18:43] <nigelvh> Not all of them computer related.
[18:43] <jonsowman> Randomskk: this has been said
[18:43] <fsphil> Randomskk, we've moved on :)
[18:43] <Randomskk> yea I said I missed it
[18:43] <Randomskk> but I felt like saying this anyway because people were trying to defend PHP
[18:43] <eroomde> did someone say php?
[18:43] <fsphil> but basically, php yay! php boo!
[18:43] <eroomde> im a massive php expert
[18:43] <jonsowman> well summarised fsphil
[18:43] <Randomskk> eroomde: http://www.hipsterhost.net/
[18:43] <eroomde> and all my inclings about how it works by looking at the source are always correct
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[18:44] <Randomskk> eroomde: though the PHP discussion is more about http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
[18:44] <Randomskk> like, PHP is only bad
[18:44] <Randomskk> every part of its "design" is bad
[18:44] <nigelvh_> To summarize, I'm going to program my arduino with PHP and fly it on a balloon just to spite everyone.
[18:44] <Randomskk> (it doesn't have any design)
[18:44] <Randomskk> nigelvh_: arduino?
[18:44] <jonsowman> nigelvh_: please do
[18:44] <Randomskk> if you want to spite people use at least a PC104 board
[18:44] <Randomskk> but probably just a laptop computer
[18:44] <Randomskk> have apache running php serve the telemetry to a perl script that interfaces with the radio
[18:45] <nigelvh_> Exactly
[18:45] <eroomde> youd be up ere with project sharp
[18:45] <Randomskk> warning: habitat will detect that you are doing this and refuse to parse your telem
[18:45] <Randomskk> also out of spite
[18:45] <DanielRichman> it might crash, so cron a reboot every 5 mins
[18:45] <eroomde> with thwir floating .Net platform
[18:45] <Randomskk> like I wish people would stop trying to defend PHP at all
[18:45] <daveake> I was thinking of writing my own language, to run on a PC104 of course, and then write the flight software in that. I think I'll call it VB6 (Visual Ballooning 6)
[18:45] <Randomskk> sometimes you can have interesting debates about things that have their goods and bads
[18:45] <Randomskk> PHP is just bads
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[18:45] <Randomskk> it's like defending sexism because "well men and women are physically different after all"
[18:46] <Randomskk> a terrible defense
[18:46] <jonsowman> i think we've established that point of view about three times now
[18:46] <nigelvh_> Every language has it's ups and downs.
[18:46] <Randomskk> I might stop reiterating it as soon as people stop defending PHP
[18:46] <Randomskk> eroomde: more to the point though check out that hipsterhost
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[18:46] <jonsowman> given its widespread usage that is unlikely to happen ever
[18:46] <Randomskk> well then
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[18:47] <cuddykid> oh look what I started! my bad..
[18:47] <nigelvh_> Yes, blame cuddykid
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[18:47] <eroomde> Randomskk: just had a look at gipsterhost
[18:47] <eroomde> hipster
[18:47] <eroomde> sadly there was exactly the set up with mac minis
[18:47] <eroomde> a hosting service
[18:48] <Randomskk> yes
[18:48] <Randomskk> cusf have one now actually
[18:48] <Randomskk> http://magpie.cusf.co.uk/
[18:48] <Randomskk> is running on a mythic beasts hosted mac mini
[18:48] <nigelvh_> My home desktop/server is a mac mini with a few VMs on it.
[18:48] <Randomskk> nigelvh_: yea, that's fine
[18:48] <Randomskk> but mythic beasts colocate hundreds of mac minis
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[18:48] <Randomskk> and it seems to work for them so whatever
[18:48] <Randomskk> but still
[18:49] <nigelvh_> Is that really so terrible? They're cheap, reasonably powerful, small, power efficient. I'm not necessarily a fan of OSX server, but a linux vm works fine.
[18:49] <eroomde> like a macbook air
[18:49] <DanielRichman> cooling?
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[18:50] <nigelvh_> It's got a fan
[18:50] <DanielRichman> oh I thought they were passive
[18:50] <nigelvh_> Nope
[18:50] <Randomskk> nigelvh_: yea, it's just unusual really
[18:50] <DanielRichman> okay
[18:50] <Randomskk> also I'd have thought it'd be expensive
[18:50] <Randomskk> compared to like, actual servers
[18:50] <eroomde> instead of using The Man 19 inch racks, we can fit 8 macbook airs into a leather satchel
[18:50] <Randomskk> there's probably a reason they're the only people doin git
[18:50] <nigelvh_> The macbooks are spendy, but the minis are reasonably cheap
[18:51] <Randomskk> I guess...
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[18:51] <eroomde> and instead of a oring old suit wearing datacentre, we host our our satchels in coffee shops
[18:52] <Randomskk> using starbucks wifi?
[18:52] <Randomskk> well starbucks is a bit too The Man
[18:52] <nigelvh_> I like mine a lot. Quad core, sitting there running but idle draws 11 watts, so i run two linux VMs constantly and just let the system run.
[18:52] <eroomde> we load balance by having all our macbook air servers connect to the same wifi hotspot
[18:52] <Randomskk> but independent coffee shops
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[18:53] <eroomde> yeah if one coffee shop goes down we fixie downnto the next one next door
[18:54] <eroomde> at is magpie for Randomskk
[18:54] <eroomde> what
[18:54] <Randomskk> oh
[18:54] <jonsowman> hosts the hourly atm
[18:54] <Randomskk> they wanted to donate a server to us
[18:54] <jonsowman> nothing else
[18:54] <Randomskk> so we run the hourly on it and will set up the lab computer to back up to it automatically
[18:54] <Randomskk> once the lab computer is set up
[18:54] <eroomde> nice
[18:55] <eroomde> yalc
[18:55] <eroomde> yet another lab computer
[18:56] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[18:56] <jonsowman> i think they're cursed
[18:57] <nigelvh> They often are.
[18:57] <eroomde> defense against the dark lab
[18:57] <jonsowman> quite
[18:58] <jonsowman> it killed two in the space of a term
[18:59] <eroomde> i think anyone who stayed down there for too long would die too
[18:59] <eroomde> not sure how on survives
[18:59] <eroomde> he might infact be not quite alive though
[18:59] <jonsowman> they deigned to turn the ventilation back on a few weeks ago
[18:59] <eroomde> would explain a lot
[18:59] <jonsowman> which meant it was freezing in there
[18:59] <eroomde> jon*
[19:00] <Randomskk> and also made loads of annoying noises
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[19:00] <Randomskk> the state of the soldering iron sponges...
[19:00] <eroomde> get the brass swarf stuff
[19:00] <eroomde> much better than sponges
[19:00] <Randomskk> then again if any legionairre's disease bacteria are living in the sponge
[19:00] <jonsowman> i think we're going to have to
[19:00] <Randomskk> I'd feel sorry for them
[19:00] <Randomskk> given everything else in that room
[19:00] <eroomde> sponge tip tho is 10% ipa water mix
[19:00] <eroomde> stops them rotting
[19:01] <Randomskk> from the fumes to the radiation to the asbestos
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[19:02] <jonsowman> radium...
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[19:03] <eroomde> is there still lots of mega useful vacuum equipment from cavendish in the lab?
[19:04] <jonsowman> iain and jon's recent clearout (tm) got rid of a lot of it
[19:04] <jonsowman> the lab is now extremely tidy
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[19:04] <eroomde> jon went along with this?
[19:04] <jonsowman> he was quite categorically outvoted
[19:05] <eroomde> or was it like one of those northern ireland rehab things
[19:05] <Randomskk> yes
[19:05] <eroomde> you hsve to meet up with the people you killed
[19:05] <eroomde> and have a chat
[19:05] <eroomde> jon hs to chuck out his preciouses
[19:05] <jonsowman> a lot of it did get binned
[19:05] <eroomde> the radium dispenser
[19:05] <eroomde> the ion splutterer
[19:05] <eroomde> the not quite sure but we neeed dis
[19:06] <jonsowman> there was a quite astonishing amount of stuff in there
[19:06] <jonsowman> now it's full of rocket
[19:06] <eroomde> the bit of test equipment from the scrap yard that is evidently missing about 40% of its wires but could still be fixed up tou never know
[19:07] <eroomde> the missile
[19:07] <eroomde> oh the missile
[19:07] <jonsowman> oh the missile has gone
[19:07] <jonsowman> after several terrified H&S people were informed
[19:07] <Randomskk> haha oh man
[19:07] <Randomskk> they loved that
[19:08] <jonsowman> "we have some asbestos", "is it equipment or structural?", "equipment i suppose...", "er ok, what is it?", "a missile"
[19:08] <jonsowman> ... silence
[19:08] <nigelvh> Sounds like a good time
[19:08] <russss> lol
[19:08] <eroomde> this was jon in the scrap yard
[19:08] <nigelvh> "The Asbestos Missle"
[19:09] <eroomde> the last one was when he saw the missile
[19:09] <eroomde> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/i-need-dis-cat.jpg
[19:09] <jonsowman> haha
[19:09] <nigelvh> lol
[19:09] <Randomskk> "yea we've just left it out in the corridor in the basement"
[19:10] <Randomskk> "uhm..."
[19:10] <Randomskk> "it's on a trolley though don't worry"
[19:10] <russss> what was this missile
[19:10] <Randomskk> "oh god don't move it"
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[19:10] <eroomde> it was a missile
[19:10] <eroomde> large
[19:10] <eroomde> olive drag
[19:10] <eroomde> fins
[19:10] <eroomde> meta
[19:10] <Randomskk> russss: the back end of a british surface to air I think
[19:10] <eroomde> asbestos
[19:10] <russss> why do missiles need asbestos?
[19:10] <Randomskk> someone told me what it was once
[19:10] <Randomskk> russss: heat shield
[19:10] <Randomskk> from the firey bit
[19:10] <russss> right
[19:10] <russss> firey
[19:10] <eroomde> we have a member of cusf
[19:10] <Randomskk> like, this was just the back end and it still weighed an absolute ton
[19:11] <Randomskk> and like, fairly tall
[19:11] <eroomde> who is very good at collecting things
[19:11] <eroomde> that we will need
[19:11] <eroomde> neeeeed
[19:11] <nigelvh> Suprising how much stuff we "neeeeed"
[19:11] <russss> it strikes me that only the british would make a missile with asbestos
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[19:11] <eroomde> the missile weighed down my car quite a lot
[19:11] <eroomde> along with the fire bricks jon made us have
[19:11] <Randomskk> I think those are finally gone/going too
[19:11] <nigelvh> But it also made your car go a lot faster?
[19:11] <eroomde> for his aluminium smelting durnace he wanted to build in our well ventilated basement lab
[19:12] <eroomde> furnace*
[19:12] <nigelvh> Gonna smelt aluminum? Like from ore?
[19:12] <eroomde> have his furnace bricks he made himself gone too?
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> you dont smelt alu from ore
[19:12] <jonsowman> eroomde: i think so
[19:12] <nigelvh> Teaches me. I don't know anything about smelting.
[19:12] <eroomde> the really flat smooth regular terracotta ones
[19:13] <Randomskk> yea
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> its done by electrolysis
[19:13] <jonsowman> totally flat and completely smooth
[19:13] <Randomskk> they either are or are out in the corridor awaiting going iirc
[19:13] <eroomde> get rid of those bloody things
[19:13] <eroomde> what a joy that will be
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[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:13] <nigelvh> quick hide!
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[19:14] <eroomde> i remember jon being very upset when fergus lost it with him in the back of my car
[19:14] <nigelvh> Howdy lunar, how's life?
[19:14] <eroomde> a tough love chat about how taking over the lab for his furnace might be taking the piss slightly
[19:14] <jonsowman> eroomde: for his collecting things?
[19:14] <jonsowman> hehe
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> good thanks nigelvh and you?
[19:14] <nigelvh> doing alright, just working, gonna maybe get some lunch soon.
[19:14] <eroomde> have you thrown out all his pound land dremel tools too?
[19:14] <Bob_G8NSV> anyone know if navrac found Ozzie2?
[19:14] <jonsowman> eroomde: i think the Martlet 1 stuff helped a lot, since it was essential to make space for it, and he was very into helping with it
[19:14] <nigelvh> Reading about some lab exploits.
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> what does lab exploit mean?
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman, btw was the name chosen in connection to the HARP project of Gerald Bull?
[19:15] <nigelvh> Our friends here are talking about their exploits in cleaning up some lab full of evil mad scientist equipment and asbestos missles.
[19:16] <eroomde> all thanks to our mapie member
[19:16] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: ?
[19:16] <jonsowman> eroomde: well at least for now, the lab is very tidy and clean
[19:16] <jonsowman> new benches for rocket stuff
[19:16] <jonsowman> some new furniture too
[19:16] <eroomde> nice
[19:16] <eroomde> i shall be along soon
[19:16] <Matt_soton> is that why the coke cans had been cleared away jonsowman ?
[19:17] <jonsowman> mm please do
[19:17] <eroomde> the cans have gone?
[19:17] <jonsowman> oh yes, the dr pepper mountain is no more
[19:17] <eroomde> the tribute to esa?
[19:17] <jonsowman> although we keep finding the odd one here and there
[19:17] <nigelvh> My god! You took the cans!
[19:17] <eroomde> the shrine of being turned into a bitch b a lrger organisation?
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah the martlet I mean jonsowman
[19:17] <jonsowman> eroomde: jon was talking about mounting sshadt on the wall
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[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok nigelvh
[19:18] <eroomde> lol
[19:18] <eroomde> yes do
[19:18] <eroomde> have it hanging
[19:18] <eroomde> in the corridor
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[19:18] <eroomde> just dont canibalise it
[19:19] <eroomde> it needs to stay in tact
[19:19] <eroomde> apparently
[19:19] <jonsowman> oh we won't
[19:19] <eroomde> i dont want to get involved with that anymore really
[19:19] <jonsowman> dont blame you
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> or wait, jonsowman you weren't involved there
[19:19] <jonsowman> we'll wall mount in somewhere for eternity
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde did the Martlet, right?
[19:19] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: i've no idea, sorry
[19:20] <eroomde> martlet is prwsent tense
[19:20] <eroomde> present*
[19:20] <eroomde> being done by cusf
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:20] <eroomde> sharp is uni of southampton
[19:20] <eroomde> one of
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to ask if the name is a tribute to the HARP project
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:20] <eroomde> oh i see
[19:20] <jonsowman> ah i see
[19:20] <eroomde> oh martlat as a name for the rocket has been around since 2006
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> as their measurement projectiles were the same name
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:21] <eroomde> i think its the symbol of pembroke college or something
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> and of McGill in Canada
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> and afaik, Bull chose the name because of that
[19:21] <eroomde> pff canada
[19:21] <eroomde> pembroke is older than canada
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
[19:21] <jonsowman> lol
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[19:25] <Randomskk> by like a good three hundred years
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[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> btw, I just love that library search engine
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> I type in "International Ozonesonde Intercomparison"
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> "Your search did not return any results"
[19:26] <eroomde> is intercompsrison a word?
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> then searched Author "Attmannspacher"
[19:26] <eroomde> intercomparison
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> then it found
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> "International ozone sonde intercomparison at the Observatory Hohenpeissenberg "
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> the thing I wanted in the first place!
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> appearently yes
[19:28] <eroomde> nice
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but I think that was stupid
[19:28] <eroomde> i will use it on a car salesman next time i see one
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> why didn't it find that in the first place
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> also, this was out of the series of publication of the german weather service
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> so I searched that also
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[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> I found the paper just one number before the one I looked for
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> the next one in the list was like 30 papers ahead
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> not quite
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> they are strange!
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> no. 120 means report no. 16
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> for some reason
[19:29] <eroomde> like a chopin prelude
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> brb dinner
[19:30] <Randomskk> eroomde you're coming up to cambridge?
[19:30] <eroomde> soonish
[19:30] <Randomskk> cool
[19:31] <eroomde> before scotlandland
[19:31] <eroomde> so next coupla weeks
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[19:56] <fsphil> bonny scotland .. should be there next month sometime
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[20:01] <fsphil> my dog just knocked over a component storage bin thingy :(
[20:01] <Randomskk> D:
[20:02] <fsphil> I know as soon as I move it, it's going everywhere....
[20:02] <Randomskk> yea...
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> back
[20:02] <Randomskk> good excuse to re sort everything right
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh fsphil did it contain valuable stuff?
[20:06] <fsphil> phew, most of the drawers stayed in
[20:06] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, not individually but it all adds up I'm sure
[20:07] <fsphil> Randomskk, yea I'm gonna have to put these on a wall somewhere
[20:07] <fsphil> got a small handful of transistors and caps, can soon sort them out
[20:07] <fsphil> glad it wasn't the smd drawer !
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:08] <Randomskk> fsphil: I used to do this http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/2483599171/
[20:08] <eroomde> the smd drawer
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> so it contained all those electronics parts?
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> ohh damn, smd would be horrible, as those are that small
[20:08] <eroomde> i see you subscribe to the sparkfun school of component categorisation
[20:08] <Randomskk> and those things were stackable so ended up being twice the height of http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/2484419602/
[20:08] <fsphil> eroomde, well.. drawers :)
[20:08] <Randomskk> then I realised that it's pointless to try
[20:08] <Randomskk> and now I just parts for each project as I need them
[20:09] <fsphil> I've started doing that now Randomskk. a drawer for each project, I can take out and put away the whole lot as needed
[20:09] <Randomskk> yea
[20:09] <Randomskk> or in my case the largest farnell box that arrived when doing that project
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> is such a shelf expensive?
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> with those boxes there
[20:10] <fsphil> there are cheap ones, but don't bother
[20:10] <nigelvh> I got a couple crafting/beading boxes. Snap shut lids with little divider compartments. They're cheap and work well.
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I got a plastic toolbox for christmas
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know how good it is in terms of ESD or so
[20:11] <nigelvh> Those are only got general components though, like resistors and a few capacitor values. Everything else I order specific for a project.
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> also it isn't divided inside
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I usually go to the local store here to get the few resistors I need
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> and have them in the paper bags in which I got them
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> and I always buy like 3 when I need one
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[20:12] <nigelvh_> I just got a couple 500 packs of various resistors and sorted out the most commonly used ones.
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> did you get my last line about me buying 3 resistors when I only need 1?
[20:13] <nigelvh_> No, but I generally buy extras too. Especially with the surface mount stuff, so then I end up with a few to play with on future stuff.
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> I also buy metal film resistors usually
[20:14] <nigelvh_> Yeah?
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> when carbon would be cheaper
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[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, I mean the first times I went there I told the clerk what I would like to buy and he came around and looked into the drawers
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> so I just copied that
[20:15] <nigelvh_> Makes sense.
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[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:16] <nigelvh> most of my pth resistors are carbon
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> and they have resistors made out of concrete
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:16] <nigelvh> They work fine.
[20:16] <nigelvh> Really you can make a resistor out of pretty much anything.
[20:16] <Randomskk> concrete's very resisty
[20:17] <nigelvh> Platinum is very minimally resisty.
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> I learned that the concrete ones are for like high power
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> they got those for 4 Watts and 17 Watts
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> sorry I can't resist
[20:18] <nigelvh> Makes sense. Rocks tend to have good thermal mass.
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> they don't have those for 1.21 Gigawatts
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:19] <nigelvh> Remember that you don't need to dissipate the 1.21 Gigawatts in a resistor, the dissipation will be a small portion of that.
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> is PTH like DIP?
[20:20] <nigelvh> Sorta.
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> I mean does it mean components to be installed through hole on a PCB?
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:20] <Randomskk> yea, sorta
[20:21] <nigelvh> Pin Through Hole and Dual Inline Pins
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[20:21] <Randomskk> also sometimes plated through hole
[20:21] <nigelvh> Or Package
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:21] <nigelvh> Anyway, yes, both go through holes
[20:22] <fsphil> ot a bit, anyone know why spectravue would grey out the demodulation options when playing back a recording?
[20:23] <nigelvh> Would the recording have already been demodulated?
[20:23] <nigelvh> (Disclaimer: I've really got no idea, just stabbing in the dark)
[20:24] <fsphil> ah, it might think that it is
[20:29] <fsphil> not sure how to fix that mind
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> I just learned how to tell linux to handle spaces in filenames
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> finally
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> finally don't have to rename files to have underscores
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[20:34] <Randomskk> you shouldn't use spaces anyway though
[20:35] <Randomskk> but yea, handy when they happen
[20:35] <fsphil> oooh, the new version of hdsdr works in wine
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:07] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Pico Launch Tomorrow 11/04/12 ~1200BST"
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> eurowine!
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> well
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
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[21:20] <fsphil> important safety tip: http://wiki.nottinghack.org.uk/wiki/Do_Not_Be_On_Fire.
[21:20] <Randomskk> london hack space's rule 0
[21:20] <Randomskk> it's a good rule
[21:21] <fsphil> I think so
[21:21] <fsphil> I've not broken it so far
[21:21] <Randomskk> I'm yet to be entirely on fire
[21:21] <jcoxon> hey guys - found a bit of ukhas/dl-fldigi/spacenear.us history
[21:21] <jcoxon> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20080723.html
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> XD fsphil
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> XD damn, now I think of the "safety tips" in the Portal games
[21:25] <fsphil> as I scroll through that log and see a red nick, I keep expecting to see my nick mentioned somewhere
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> "Do not touch the operational end of the device. Do not look into the operational end of the device."
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, what do I need to look for?
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> how does the highlight look like
[21:27] <fsphil> there where certainly less puns back then
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> no Portal, no Back to the future xD
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> but where is the highlight?
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, where do I need to look for in the log?
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> or do you mean the whole day?
[21:31] <jcoxon> its when we first started working on having more then 1 listener
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[21:40] <fsphil> you wouldn't think of not doing that now
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[21:43] <Laurenceb_> i need to head to nottingham hackspace
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:44] <Laurenceb_> seeing as i work there and all XD
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, I did tell of what happened when I tried to make a makeshift wire for my temperature sensor, right?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I'm reminded because of the don't be on fire
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> makeshift wire?
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> you used a spoon?
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> no, I used sparkfun male-to-female wires and put two each together
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> and then I put the DS18S20 on top of them
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[21:45] <fsphil> ah you plugged the ds18s20 into a header
[21:45] <fsphil> I'm guilty of doing that too sometimes
[21:46] <fsphil> they're a bit wide but it works well
[21:46] <Randomskk> UpuWork: thanks for the qsl card btw :D
[21:46] <Upu> thank you for listening :)
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah sort of
[21:46] <Randomskk> a pleasure as always :D
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> and then the arduino started to smell and the ON light went dim
[21:47] <fsphil> remember rule 0
[21:47] <fsphil> we're going to need that sign for the H2 launches
[21:48] <Randomskk> ;D
[21:50] <fsphil> I'm suppose to be getting the ds18s20 working but I ended up watching telly
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD James May?
[21:50] <fsphil> buzzcocks
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:51] <Morseman> Any more launches with QSL cards planned?
[21:52] <fsphil> it's a great idea, I'm definitely gonna do that next time
[21:52] <fsphil> but that won't be until the summer
[21:52] <Morseman> NMTB gets more sureal every week
[21:53] <RocketBoy> where is that navrac when you need him
[21:53] <RocketBoy> someone found his payload
[21:53] <fsphil> whoa
[21:53] <RocketBoy> yea!
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:53] <fsphil> try emailing him
[21:54] <RocketBoy> have
[21:54] <RocketBoy> it was found ere http://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212646467521199892009.0004bd5910d91206b6de8&msa=0&ll=52.311522,1.412344&spn=0.006533,0.01929
[21:54] <fsphil> iirc, it only had the ukhas url on it
[21:54] <jcoxon> i can do qsl cards for tomorrow
[21:55] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, how did you find it?
[21:55] <fsphil> or did someone go out to find it intentionally?
[21:55] <fsphil> and if so, do they fancy a trip to yorkshire? :)
[21:56] <RocketBoy> someone found it - found the url and contacted me cos I was local
[21:56] <fsphil> hah, small world
[21:56] <jcoxon> he'll be very pleased
[21:57] <Upu> I have his address if you need it RocketBoy that is very cool :)
[21:57] <Upu> was that further than he thought it went ?
[21:57] <RocketBoy> OK - if he doesn't get in contact I'll go pick it up
[21:58] <RocketBoy> na - that was just about where you would expect
[21:58] <Upu> ok
[21:58] <jcoxon> he'll be one tomorrow
[21:58] <jcoxon> night all
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[21:58] <fsphil> love a happy ending
[21:58] <RocketBoy> based on the path and descent
[21:58] <Upu> Buzz didn't turn up :/
[21:58] <fsphil> there's still time
[21:58] <Upu> phones been on for 2 weeks now
[21:58] <RocketBoy> found in someones back garden
[21:59] <Upu> I like that the curosity got them to go look into it
[21:59] <RocketBoy> someone did email to say they found something on thorpness beach over the weekend - but they haven't replied to my email yet
[22:00] <fsphil-laptop> ooh
[22:00] <fsphil-laptop> did they describe it?
[22:00] <Morseman> That's great news Rocketboy! I'm sure navrac will be very pleased
[22:00] <RocketBoy> fsphil-laptop na
[22:01] <Upu> right I'm off ta ta
[22:01] <fsphil-laptop> I know it would be rotted silly but it would be nice to have that last one picked up again
[22:02] <fsphil-laptop> nite Upu!
[22:02] <Morseman> GN Upu
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Upu
[22:03] <RocketBoy> nights
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[22:06] <fsphil-laptop> why are htc phones so awkward to open
[22:06] <fsphil-laptop> keep thinking I'm gonna break it
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[22:17] <fsphil-laptop> there it goes. got a giffgaff sim for it, gonna give them a try
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[23:49] <griffonbot> Received email: jules@g0nzo.co.uk "[UKHAS] Re: Patch vs Yagi?"
[00:00] --- Wed Apr 11 2012