highaltitude.log.20120409

[00:01] <Randomskk> hi
[00:01] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Novel downlink ideas"
[00:08] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:223:5aff:fef5:cce) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[00:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Allen Sklar "RE: [UKHAS] Novel downlink ideas"
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello NigeyS
[00:18] <NigeyS> hey hey fixed now, sorry!
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[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS, Portal 2 is cool!
[00:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BUKHAS=5D_XBee=2DPRO=AE_868_OEM_RF_Modules_=2D_Digi_Interna?=
[00:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "[UKHAS] XTend RF Modems - 1 Watt/900 MHz Stand-Alone Radio Modems -
[00:33] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Novel downlink ideas"
[00:39] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS, still on?
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[02:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Allen Sklar "RE: [UKHAS] XTend RF Modems - 1 Watt/900 MHz Stand-Alone Radio Modems
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[03:01] <schofieldau> also I'm playing with Fritzing
[03:02] <schofieldau> whoops
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[05:25] <kg4sgp> hello all
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[05:28] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[06:23] <eroomde> morning kg4sgp
[06:23] <eroomde> bit early for many round here on a public holiday :)
[06:26] <kg4sgp> heh too true
[06:27] <kg4sgp> figured there might be some non-usa and accross the pond folks that might be up
[06:27] <Darkside> :P
[06:27] <Darkside> i'm playing with a tv tuner
[06:28] <Darkside> getting it receiving sideband
[06:28] <kg4sgp> one of the rtl-sdrs?
[06:28] <Darkside> yeah
[06:28] <Darkside> now that gnuradio compiles on OSX (with a lot of work though) i can play with it
[06:28] <kg4sgp> yeah those are cool I havent yet played with them but a friend of mine is really interested in them
[06:29] <kg4sgp> which tv tuner do you have?
[06:29] <Darkside> its s eztv 646
[06:30] <Darkside> so it has one of the shit Fitipower FC0012 tuners in it
[06:30] <kg4sgp> lol
[06:33] <kg4sgp> hows the audio and what not?
[06:51] <eroomde> what bandwidth do they sample Darkside ?
[06:52] <kg4sgp> eroomde: they can be made to sample large portions of the specturm. I dont know the extremes but I do know they can at least caputre 6MHZ (that requred for the video signal)
[06:52] <kg4sgp> http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/rtl-sdr is a good refrence
[06:53] <eroomde> 6mhz!
[06:53] <eroomde> nice
[06:53] <eroomde> so might work for a gps
[06:54] <kg4sgp> yeah, I think so! some of the tuners can also tune in that range
[06:55] <eroomde> "however, the highest sample-rate without lost samples that has been tested so far is 2.8 MS/s."
[06:55] <eroomde> might not be quite enough
[06:56] <kg4sgp> depending on how roubust the demodulation and how sensitive the mode of communication
[06:57] <kg4sgp> a dropped sample probably wont matter all too much if they are useing inter-sample interpolation
[06:57] <eroomde> indeed
[06:57] <eroomde> well that looks fascinating and quite promising
[06:57] <SpeedEvil> Lost samples matter massively.
[06:58] <kg4sgp> yeah and cheap! :)
[06:58] <SpeedEvil> If you don't know they're lost.
[06:58] <SpeedEvil> They'll fuck up GPS bad.
[06:58] <eroomde> oh yes if you dont know
[06:59] <Darkside> eroomde: they'll only pass 2.8MSPs through to the pc
[06:59] <Darkside> but internally it uses higher sample rates for DVB demodulation
[07:00] <Darkside> works best at 1MSPs though
[07:00] <eroomde> ok thats still v interesting
[07:01] <eroomde> my main question would be
[07:01] <eroomde> is our children learning?
[07:01] <eroomde> sorry hand slipped. i meant, can you use a coherent clock?
[07:01] <Darkside> wat
[07:01] <Darkside> lol
[07:01] <Darkside> no
[07:01] <eroomde> is qthere a bodgeable clock input somewhere?
[07:02] <kg4sgp> hmm interesting, the sticks dont do dvb demodulation internally do they? I thought they passed the samples for the computer to demodulate?
[07:02] <kg4sgp> that shouldnt be a ? at the en
[07:02] <kg4sgp> end*
[07:02] <eroomde> id really like to build this superresolution array
[07:02] <Darkside> eroomde: theres a 28MHz crystal on the board
[07:02] <Darkside> kg4sgp: they do some of the demodulation on the chip
[07:02] <Darkside> and pass symbols to the pc
[07:02] <eroomde> and dont want to fight hardware aswell as software if it can be helped
[07:02] <Darkside> for DAB, i believe it just passes the entire signal through
[07:02] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah don't use these receivers
[07:03] <Darkside> seriously
[07:03] <kg4sgp> ah
[07:03] <Darkside> wait for the osmoSDR and use that
[07:03] <Darkside> i think that has a clock input
[07:04] <eroomde> osmosdr?
[07:04] <Darkside> think funcube dongle with higher sample rate
[07:04] <SpeedEvil> for DAB doesn't it have an OFDM thingy in to do the heavy lifting?
[07:05] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: well this is the weird thing, isn't it
[07:05] <Darkside> it woudl make sense to do the OFDM demod on the chip
[07:05] <Darkside> but only the DAB tuners have IQ passthrough
[07:05] <SpeedEvil> ah
[07:05] <eroomde> that looks nice
[07:05] <eroomde> would like to be able to get at the data before it gets usbified
[07:05] <eroomde> the world is simple and coherent before usb
[07:05] <eroomde> then its a big mess
[07:05] <Darkside> heh
[07:05] <Darkside> yep
[07:05] <Darkside> feed it all into a fpga
[07:05] <Darkside> then send it through
[07:05] <eroomde> exactly
[07:06] <eroomde> fpga to gigE or pci or something
[07:06] <SpeedEvil> Raspberry pi
[07:06] <Darkside> uhh
[07:06] <Darkside> no
[07:06] <eroomde> still want the coherent samples packaged up before they hit linux
[07:06] <Darkside> yeah..
[07:07] <Darkside> i was conwidering using a beaglebone as a payload
[07:07] <Darkside> and i realised that i'd have to do the RTTY modulation off-board
[07:07] <Darkside> no timing guarantees
[07:07] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't it just spit the coherent stream of IQ across?
[07:07] <SpeedEvil> USB
[07:07] <eroomde> no indeed, thought you might get away with it
[07:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[07:08] <Upu> morning
[07:09] <kg4sgp> man I like this place, people talking about demodualtion, timeing garuntees, IQ signals, uCs... its a nice change from the ham radio club I'm involved with... only a few members like that
[07:10] <eroomde> people talking about their back pain on fm repeaters huh?
[07:10] <kg4sgp> heh, yeaahhhh
[07:11] <eroomde> same here
[07:11] <kg4sgp> I'm also involved with a university club (W8UPD) and they're more energetic and what not but still
[07:12] <SpeedEvil> ##electronics is good too, if not aware of it.
[07:12] <eroomde> the w8upd club hss a suitabley names president
[07:12] <eroomde> has
[07:13] <eroomde> named
[07:13] <SpeedEvil> A few of us are trying to start ##mechanics - but...
[07:13] <eroomde> i think i sm reaching a bit of a crossroads in my life in tha regard
[07:13] <kg4sgp> eroomde: heh, thatd be me XD
[07:13] <eroomde> hah wow
[07:13] <eroomde> ooooh say can you seeeeee
[07:14] <kg4sgp> yeah the great part is when I get the people who dont realize it and come back to me weeks/months later telling me I'm the "dead" president
[07:14] <eroomde> but yep SpeedEvil, i think now i seem to be doing lots of rocketry and have been learning thermal physics at a faster rate than during my degree, im going to have to start focussing on that a bit
[07:14] <eroomde> that and sig proc and bayesian inference
[07:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[07:14] <eroomde> but less radio stuff sadlt
[07:15] <SpeedEvil> Well - you can't get far from signal proc with radio
[07:15] <eroomde> true
[07:15] <SpeedEvil> though bayesian inference does imply (usually?) FEC?
[07:15] <eroomde> but plenty of new perpsectives with rocketry
[07:15] <eroomde> nah inference probalems are a general approach to physics
[07:15] <SpeedEvil> ah
[07:15] <eroomde> what is the most likely model for what my sensor is seeing
[07:16] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning in terms of radio
[07:16] <eroomde> there are some interesting sigproc problems in rocketry
[07:16] <SpeedEvil> maximal likelyhood decoding.
[07:16] <SpeedEvil> Or is that a sperate field?
[07:16] <eroomde> for example if you deliberately introduce some noise upstream in a combustion chamber to cause turbulence, how do you remove that noise further down stream in post processing
[07:16] <eroomde> having had the noise be convolved through a bunch of different processes, chokes etc
[07:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[07:18] <eroomde> or things like source separation where you want to identify specific sources of vibration when you just have some accelerometers on various bits of the engine
[07:19] <eroomde> not hedge fund lucrative but useful stuff :)
[07:19] <SpeedEvil> Well - prefailure analysis is hugely lucrative in some cases.
[07:20] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[07:20] <SpeedEvil> 'you need to stop bigmachine once ever 18 weeks, not 14' = $$$
[07:20] <eroomde> its not a field that has had much research level sigproc applied to it (unlike say finane or computer vision) so theres quie a lot of low hanging druit
[07:20] <eroomde> fruit
[07:21] <SpeedEvil> Did you watch any of the Kepler conference?
[07:21] <SpeedEvil> Doing signal processing on stellar brightnesses to pull out star properties.
[07:22] <SpeedEvil> REally amazingly basic stuff in some instances - just as it's a new firld.
[07:22] <eroomde> no but it sounds fascinating
[07:22] <eroomde> any links?
[07:23] <SpeedEvil> http://keplergo.arc.nasa.gov/ScienceKepSciCon1.shtml - links to video archives
[07:23] <SpeedEvil> Most of the talks are interesting.
[07:23] <eroomde> ta
[07:24] <SpeedEvil> Truly wacky stuff - going from a power spectrum to detailed mechanics of the stellar interior.
[07:25] <kg4sgp> off of the data being recieved from kepler?
[07:26] <SpeedEvil> yes
[07:26] <kg4sgp> wow nice
[07:26] <SpeedEvil> As it's a new field - I actually - as someone who knows what a FFT is, but is a bit fuzzy about the maths, with three actual semesters of physics at uni - and general interest - was able to follow >80%
[07:27] <SpeedEvil> Most amusing quote.
[07:27] <SpeedEvil> 'The sun is not a sun-like star'.
[07:27] <SpeedEvil> - the project was designed to detect earth-like planets around sun-like stars.
[07:28] <SpeedEvil> It turns out that unfortunately, the sun - for its type - is abnormally 'quiet' - it doesn't flicker much.
[07:28] <SpeedEvil> This background noise in the target stellar population being higher did really bad things to the chances of detecting earthlike planets around sunlike stars.
[07:29] <SpeedEvil> Close-in planets are easy - as they repeat lots. Large planets are easy, because they make a big dip in the light. But earth-like ones were just above the margin of detectabiltiy given the design specs.
[07:29] <SpeedEvil> Which turned out to be wrong, as the stars flicker too much.
[07:29] <SpeedEvil> The mission has now been extended - so it should more-or-less get to 'baseline' sensirivity
[07:31] <kg4sgp> yeah, heard about the extention, but havent heard about the rest, mostly been following the keplermission from its contributions to SETI, as I'm very interested in that aswell
[07:31] <kg4sgp> thats really interesting though, Ill have to give the video a look
[07:32] <SpeedEvil> The basics of planet detection are really simple. (sorta).
[07:32] <SpeedEvil> FFT the per-minute or so sampled light-curve.
[07:32] <SpeedEvil> See if a signal at 1/year pops out
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[07:49] <eroomde> the ipad remote monitor thing now works at the ipad3's native resolution
[07:49] <eroomde> which is huge
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[07:50] <eroomde> i can barely see the text in my terminal
[07:51] <SpeedEvil> :/
[07:51] <SpeedEvil> Oh - sorry
[07:51] <SpeedEvil> . /
[07:51] <SpeedEvil> ./
[07:51] <kg4sgp> lol
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[07:51] <eroomde> that's much more helpful
[07:51] <eroomde> thanks
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[07:52] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how many 80*25 terms at 7*5 fonts you get.
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[07:53] <eroomde> thaaarsends
[07:53] Action: SpeedEvil is waiting for a new laptop to run his shiny new monitor that'll fit ~54 of them
[07:54] <eroomde> mine eyes can't cope with 7*5 i don't think
[07:55] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[07:55] <Darkside> mine eyes are blind i cannot see
[07:55] <Darkside> i have not got my specs with me
[08:17] <eroomde> have now got it in 1024 x 768 in hi dpi rendering mode
[08:17] <eroomde> it looks stunning
[08:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[08:18] <eroomde> it's basically a retina display for a pc
[08:18] <eroomde> 'retina display'
[08:18] <eroomde> horrible term
[08:18] <eroomde> but you see what i mean
[08:19] <SpeedEvil> I want >140 dpi or so
[08:20] <SpeedEvil> I'm profoundly unconvinced of the need for more in a laptop or desktop
[08:20] <SpeedEvil> I can see the argument for ~300 for phones
[08:21] <eroomde> right better head out into the rain
[08:21] <eroomde> so much for holiday
[08:21] <eroomde> bbl
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[08:34] <Upu> morning daveake
[08:34] <Upu> http://hamradionews.net/2012/04/foundation-pass-for-5-year-and-eleven-months-old-miss-kayleigh-huntley/
[08:34] <Upu> I don't think you have any excuses for not doing your Foundation :)
[08:35] <fsphil> lol
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[08:36] <daveake> morning Upu
[08:36] <daveake> Er, no, I don't :)
[08:41] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
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[08:51] <Darkside> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/VK5ARG-11
[08:55] <fsphil> nice. my battery did the same
[08:55] <Darkside> its stillg oing
[08:55] <Darkside> going*
[08:55] <fsphil> you going to try the compressed telemetry format?
[08:55] <Darkside> soon
[08:55] <Darkside> but not this launch
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[09:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[09:06] <number10> Upu: I see daveake has made preperations for his foundation --- http://imgur.com/2jKXQ
[09:08] <daveake> Well if a 5year 11month girl can grow a beard ....
[09:08] <daveake> anyhoo I thought that was part of the advanced exam?
[09:08] <number10> lol, possibly
[09:09] <number10> sorry about that daveake
[09:09] <number10> I couldnt find the right shade of grey so had to use black
[09:09] <daveake> np
[09:09] <daveake> revenge will be sweet :)
[09:09] <number10> ooops
[09:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[09:09] <daveake> grey?
[09:10] <daveake> OK now I really do need revenge :)
[09:17] <fsphil> ooch
[09:17] <Morseman> It's a sad state of affairs when you log into your works email on a bank holiday so you don't have to deal with loads of automatically generated data emails in the morning...
[09:17] <fsphil> I hear you get points deducted for no beard in the advanced exam
[09:17] <Morseman> Patches on the arms of your jacket helps as well
[09:19] <daveake> extra points for a grey beard
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[09:23] <Morseman> Rule 1: When you stop using the PC as your main PC and want more space *don't* compless thye whole of c:/
[09:24] <Morseman> compress - even
[09:24] <fsphil> side effects?
[09:24] <Morseman> and I've not slipped back to the 17th century either...
[09:25] <Morseman> No, it just takes blooming ages to do
[09:25] <Morseman> 3 hours 50 minutes remaining...
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[10:01] <Morseman> And I think I now know why I inherited this 'new' PC when the person replaced it with a new one...
[10:02] <Morseman> The wifi connection seems to drop the DNS connection even though the WIFI connection is still working
[10:02] <Morseman> so the WIFI connection is OK but no access to the internet
[10:03] <Morseman> (This PC is my works one on a different router and telephone line)
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[10:17] <cuddykid> gm
[10:19] <fsphil> mornin'
[10:19] <fsphil> pouring down outside here
[10:20] <cuddykid> not too bad here, light rain, expecting it to get worse
[10:31] <Darkside> hmm
[10:31] <Darkside> need to change the OSIRIS flight doc
[10:31] <Darkside> and need to get the HORUS flight doc setup for this weekends flight
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[10:40] <Morseman> Hi fsphil/Darkside
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[10:40] <Morseman> It's been ah raining here also
[10:41] <Morseman> Other PC still applying attributes (sigh)
[10:41] <Morseman> New PC steadfastly refuses to routh SpectrumLabs audio to speakers as well
[10:42] <Morseman> It's a wonderful day here so far...
[10:42] <Morseman> rout - even
[10:42] <Morseman> or even route
[10:42] <Morseman> and the cat is biting my knees!
[10:43] <Morseman> Time for a toasted hot cross bun I think
[10:44] <fsphil> buns always help
[10:45] <gonzo_p> cake is a good solution to most problems
[10:48] <Morseman> 1 hour and 20 minutes remaining - I do hope this is going to be worth the wait...
[10:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
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[10:50] <F5MVO> Good afternnon
[10:51] <Morseman> Hi F5MVO
[10:52] <F5MVO> Morseman, hi , some news from OZZIE2 ?
[10:52] <Morseman> Still lost in a field I think
[10:53] <F5MVO> ah, not good
[10:55] <Morseman> navrac was talking about remaking from backup parts but needed some solar panels
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[10:56] <F5MVO> it will be for next time
[10:58] <F5MVO> Morseman, see you later, thanks for information
[10:58] <F5MVO> bye bye
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[11:11] <Morseman> GA Elmar
[11:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> ga Morseman
[11:12] <Morseman> No launches today by look of it - but weather not good over here anyway
[11:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> weather is good to stay inside...
[11:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> raining here
[11:13] <Morseman> Typical UK Bankholiday weather. HI
[11:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> looking at the hutton TinyTracker sketches
[11:15] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morseman: not only typical fo the UK
[11:16] <Morseman> True, Elmar_PD3EM but it's the English who famously only talk about the weather to avoid any other subjects ;-)
[11:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha... its about the most spoken subject in the netherlands as well ;-)
[11:21] <staylo> You start a conversation about the weather at your peril these days. Nasty weather we're having -> 'don't have weather like I remember' -> long term weather patterns -> effectiveness of renewable energy vs nuclear -> violence
[11:22] <Morseman> Yes, even the Germans don't want to build Nuclear in this country now...
[11:22] <Morseman> E.On and NPower RWE backed out of a joint venture
[11:28] <schofieldau> hey all
[11:28] <Morseman> GA schofieldau
[11:29] <Nickle> And there was I thinking the Dutch were talking about their defict being above the EU rules....
[11:29] <fsphil> hiya schofieldau
[11:30] <Morseman> 51 minutes remaining
[11:30] <Elmar_PD3EM> ga schofieldau
[11:31] <Morseman> And as it went through I realised that WSJT and WSPR save a lot of WAV files if you don't watch them! Time to have a clear out I think...
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[11:33] <Morseman> The question is, do I back them up 'just in case' or realise that they are never going to be needed and just delete them all?
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[11:33] <Morseman> Wow, that was a short login...
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[11:35] <Morseman> Another David A ... Hello David_A
[11:35] <David_A> Hello!
[11:36] <fsphil> I'd just delete them Morseman
[11:36] <fsphil> unless you're going back to decode them again at some point
[11:36] <Morseman> Sorry David_A my surname begins with an 'A' and first name is David
[11:36] <Morseman> I think you are right fsphil
[11:37] <Morseman> There *are* alot of them I now realise again
[11:37] <David_A> David is a good name...
[11:38] <fsphil> There does seem to be a disproportionate number of David A's in the channel at the moment :)
[11:38] <Morseman> Most people (apart from my late Grandma) call me Dave, though
[11:38] <Morseman> WAV files fsphil :-)
[11:39] <Morseman> I forgot to turn off the auto save feature in WSPR and WSJT back in February by the look of it - No wonder the HDD was nearly full!
[11:39] <fsphil> I think it enables it by default
[11:40] <Morseman> Yes, and when I reinstall or install a new version I forget to turn it off again. DOH!
[11:40] <fsphil> in saying that, I've only the one .wav file in wspr
[11:40] <schofieldau> is there a place I can check that my sentences are being checksummed properly?
[11:40] <schofieldau> and that they're in the correct format, etc
[11:40] <Morseman> There wasn't even enough room to run a defrag !
[11:41] <fsphil> I like using this for testing checksums schofieldau: http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/crc-calculation.html
[11:41] <fsphil> the 16-bit one we use is listed as "CRC-CCITT (0xFFFF)"
[11:42] <schofieldau> cool
[11:42] <schofieldau> they check out
[11:42] <schofieldau> also
[11:42] <schofieldau> tomorrow I'm doing a test "flight"
[11:42] <schofieldau> I'm going to put the payload in my car
[11:42] <schofieldau> connected via serial to my laptop
[11:42] <schofieldau> just testing the gps
[11:42] <schofieldau> laptop will log all the sentences to a file
[11:42] <schofieldau> is there some way I can upload them to spacenear.us
[11:42] <schofieldau> and check they all worked?
[11:42] <fsphil> nice. I did a dog-walk-payload-test yesterday
[11:43] <fsphil> do you have a payload document made up for it?
[11:44] <schofieldau> what's that?
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[11:44] <fsphil> it's a document that describes the sentence. the server uses it to parse it out
[11:45] <fsphil> you can use this site to generate it: http://www.habhub.org/genpayload
[11:45] <fsphil> and then get one of us to upload it
[11:45] <fsphil> you'll see yourself if the strings look ok though
[11:46] <schofieldau> okay cool. I haven't quite finalised many of the details of the launch
[11:47] <fsphil> best to leave that until you've settled on the format then
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[11:50] <Morseman> Time to take a hacksaw to the excess coax on the antennas as well (Trying to tidy the 'shack' so it can be a spare room as well again...)
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[12:04] <schofieldau> ugh I can't get 'ttylog' to pipe to a file. ttylog -b 9600 -d /dev/ttyUSB0 > log.txt doesn't work
[12:05] <schofieldau> nor does ttylog -b 9600 -d /dev/ttyUSB0 | tee log.txt
[12:06] <schofieldau> I think it's printing to stderror or something weird
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[12:08] <schofieldau> actually it's buffering it until the end
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[12:15] <schofieldau> fix'd - ended up setting serial options with stty
[12:16] <schofieldau> and then using cat /dev/ttyUSB0 | tee -a /log.txt
[12:18] <Morseman> Are you using Linux by any chance schofieldau?
[12:18] <schofieldau> yep
[12:18] <Laurenceb> Morseman: you dont say
[12:18] <Morseman> all thos /dev/*something -a/log stuff made my head hurt when I tried it in the past
[12:19] <Laurenceb> its nice
[12:19] <Laurenceb> if you try to do the same on windows itd be horrible
[12:20] <schofieldau> yep I'd be writing a visualbasic GUI to backtrace the serial port right about now
[12:20] <schofieldau> Linux: it just works (tm)
[12:21] <Morseman> I did get TNOS woring on TCP/IP many years ago - quite proud of that. Back in days of DOS6 but no one else in range at that time - HI
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[12:23] [1]Nickle (~Nickle@93-96-143-83.zone4.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:23] <Morseman> Just discovered my copy of NOSintro by Ian Wade still on the bookshelf - museum copy now I would guess
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[12:46] <cuddykid> pico payload taking shape
[12:47] <Upu> ping daveake
[12:48] <daveake> pung
[12:48] <Upu> hola
[12:48] <daveake> hoola
[12:48] <Upu> check your mail
[12:49] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/ac5XK.jpg
[12:50] <Upu> that looks like a Dave special :)
[12:50] <zyp> ve special :)
[12:50] <zyp> oops
[12:50] <cuddykid> yes :P
[12:50] <cuddykid> it's a Dave special trying to break a Dave record
[12:52] <David_A> Looks nice :)
[12:52] <Darkside> i need to stick a gps on the back of one of my cutdown boards
[12:53] <daveake> cuddykid is that the box for it?
[12:53] <daveake> or are you putting a bus into space? ;)
[12:54] <cuddykid> daveake: not now, no - just done a weigh in and it comes in at just over 60g! far too heavy :(
[12:54] <cuddykid> lol
[12:54] <cuddykid> needs a rethink!
[12:54] <cuddykid> it was going to be the box
[12:57] <daveake> buzz2 was near 150g; weight isn't everything
[12:58] <cuddykid> true - my 1st payload was ~ 1kg and it got to nearly 36km
[12:58] <cuddykid> daveake: did that include chute?
[12:59] <Upu> our last payload did 38.5k with 1.5kg under it
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[13:03] <daveake> cuddykid yeah I always include the chute
[13:03] <cuddykid> yeah, now the chute is going to add a lot onto this one :/
[13:03] <cuddykid> time to take the weight down!
[13:03] <daveake> Which reminds me, I need to buy some - lost 2 last flights!
[13:03] <cuddykid> :(
[13:04] <cuddykid> I've got a tiny one actually (used for some small rocket stuff) - hasn't got an attachment at the top though
[13:05] <daveake> I bet you say that to all the girls
[13:05] <cuddykid> oh yes
[13:07] <cuddykid> daveake: are you interested in launching soon (i.e. end of the week?) - if so, I can ask for 3 flights to be covered?
[13:07] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth is probably going to launch one too
[13:07] <cuddykid> near Worcester
[13:09] <Upu> can you post it to the list so people know even if its still provisional
[13:09] <Upu> I know someone else is planning on launching next weekend too
[13:09] <daveake> thanks for the offer, but don't really have a mission objective yet
[13:10] <daveake> Besides I need to man my laser beam for you launch ;)
[13:11] <daveake> your
[13:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> i'm decoding my test payload :-) http://i.imgur.com/hJFB0.jpg
[13:11] <fsphil> lasers!
[13:12] <fsphil> looks good Elmar_PD3EM
[13:12] <Upu> nice clean signal Elmar
[13:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> yes! I'm happy ;-)
[13:12] <fsphil> Darkside, that's voltage is falling of a cliff now :)
[13:12] <fsphil> -'s
[13:12] <daveake> Distance 0.0 is reassuring :-)
[13:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> it's still inside near the window ;-)
[13:13] <fsphil> I rounded my coordinates down a bit, so when testing my payload is always about 20m away
[13:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> i'm testing now with the TinyTracker from ajhutton
[13:14] <schofieldau> :D
[13:14] <schofieldau> that's me
[13:15] <Elmar_PD3EM> aha schofieldau !
[13:15] <Elmar_PD3EM> so I solved the problem I sent you in an email
[13:15] <schofieldau> yep that problem is a corrupt string
[13:16] <schofieldau> looks like it's picking up
[13:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> removed the resistors from the serial
[13:16] <schofieldau> yep
[13:16] <schofieldau> i've had that too it was odd
[13:16] <Elmar_PD3EM> next step will be the parallax MS5607
[13:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> or the BMP085 ;-)
[13:20] <schofieldau> Elmar: feel free to let me know of any suggestions for features/fixes on TinyTracker
[13:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> thanks for the great package schofieldau !! I will dig into the code and see what I find
[13:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> schofieldau: I replaced the TinyGPS with the latest version. Replace #include "WProgram.h" in yours with #include "Arduino.h"
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[13:29] <cuddykid> will do Upu
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[13:31] <schofieldau> payload ready for test "flight" tomorrow
[13:31] <schofieldau> http://imgur.com/FGBeB,AJIS9,rg75k,0ELDK
[13:31] <schofieldau> does anybody know if that ublox will get lock through a car roof?
[13:31] <Darkside> maaaayve
[13:32] <Darkside> maybe*
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> schofieldau: yes
[13:32] <Darkside> what are you using as a receiver?
[13:32] <schofieldau> no receiver
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> schofieldau: At over about 700m/s.
[13:32] <schofieldau> I'm just testing gps
[13:32] <Darkside> oh, leds
[13:32] <Darkside> just go for a walk outside :P
[13:32] <Darkside> have it turn a LED on when you see >3 sats
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> Car windows vary.
[13:32] <schofieldau> haha well I have a long driving lesson tomorrow
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> Some are not transparent to GPS
[13:33] <schofieldau> and by test I mean making sure it maintains lock etc and if it loses it making sure it regains it while moving
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> My phone worked very well logging, simply in pocket, with antenna up.
[13:33] <Darkside> schofieldau: it will
[13:33] <Darkside> srsly
[13:33] <Darkside> we use those things on every flight
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> Then convert to GPX, upload the traces to openstreetmap.org - and compare the accuracy. Oh - and add any features that are missing. :)
[13:34] <schofieldau> alright
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> (assuming per-second logging)
[13:36] <schofieldau> I'm off
[13:36] <schofieldau> night all
[13:37] <fsphil> nite schofieldau
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[13:41] <cuddykid> oh dear - it's friday 13th this friday!
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[13:44] <fsphil> it's monday the 16th you have to worry about
[13:45] <fsphil> it *always* comes after a friday the 13th, how spooky is that
[13:47] <Upu> reminds me of this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJjQMwEjC1I
[13:47] <jcoxon> hey all
[13:48] <fsphil> evenin' jcoxon
[13:49] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Re: LAUNCH - Saturday 14th"
[13:50] <daveake> Upu or this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw9K0tI9mxc
[13:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Provisional - Launch(es) on Friday 13/04"
[13:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: LAUNCH - Saturday 14th"
[13:53] <jcoxon> suddenly got busy!
[13:53] <Randomskk> I just shattered an easter egg into loads of bits :(
[13:53] <cuddykid> mine will be a very last min launch if I go ahead
[13:54] <jcoxon> i'm convinced their is a ghost on spacenear.us - why does atlas keep appearing!
[13:54] <cuddykid> sent an email off to potential "advertiser" - if they say no then it won't be happening
[13:55] <daveake> I had a chase car suddenly appear a few hours after it was all switched off
[13:56] <Randomskk> whoo spooky :P
[13:57] <fsphil> just watch out for cats and dogs living together
[13:57] <fsphil> then we panic
[13:57] <cuddykid> who's G4DPZ?
[13:59] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=1029b1225002af5e6ba0082a9c29210923b47914
[14:00] <cuddykid> probably something like this for Will's flight -> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a2a121bc3990d3fae14f5e9355bb5f8258df1692
[14:00] <cuddykid> looks good!
[14:11] <jcoxon> ping navrac
[14:18] MickMondo (~Mick@188.29.129.163.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] XABEN-24 Launch Announcement Sunday 15/04/2012"
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[14:21] <fsphil> moar launches
[14:24] <jcoxon> i might launch
[14:25] <jcoxon> actually i might launch on weds
[14:26] <fsphil> pico or macho?
[14:26] <jcoxon> pcio
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[14:28] <fsphil> those are always interesting. trying out anything new?
[14:29] <MickMondo> Hi all,
[14:29] <MickMondo> Just wanted to give a possible heads up for a launch this Saturday Morning ..ish, I'll keep an eye on the weather and confirm later on this week. I hope to launch two payloads, one payload with two transmitters and the other payload with one transmitter.. Anthony just told me there maybe two other people wishing to launch also, I don't use the normal frequencies ( 075 / 650 ) so there
[14:29] <MickMondo> shouldn't be any problems ( he says )..
[14:29] <MickMondo> I'll be on :-
[14:29] <MickMondo> 434.225 ( testing out small helical antenna )
[14:29] <MickMondo> 434.375 ( testing out transmitter ) maybe rubbish but works amazingly on the ground
[14:29] <MickMondo> 434.525 limited to 10mw
[14:29] <MickMondo> Call signs will be:-
[14:29] <MickMondo> MONDO ( 434.525 )
[14:29] <MickMondo> MONDO-1 ( 434.225 )
[14:29] <MickMondo> MONDO-2 ( 434.375 )
[14:29] <MickMondo> Michael ( Bello Mondo )
[14:29] <jcoxon> fsphil, just trying to float
[14:29] <jcoxon> and trying out some powersave modes
[14:29] <jcoxon> MickMondo, what tx is it?
[14:30] <cuddykid> has anyone tried out superpressure envelopes?
[14:30] <Randomskk> MickMondo: ta, a few questions
[14:30] <Randomskk> you say the third is limited to 10mW but I assume all three are?
[14:30] <MickMondo> ?
[14:30] <Randomskk> what baud rate, RTTY shift and serial settings are you using?
[14:30] <Randomskk> and which sentence format goes with each one?
[14:31] <Randomskk> "434.525 limited to 10mw" -- then what are the first two?
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[14:32] <fsphil> cuddykid, technically all the foil balloons are SP
[14:32] <fsphil> just very small ones
[14:32] <MickMondo> Only two are 25mw, one of them is limited to 10mw and the other is using a weak helical which should only radiate 10mw
[14:33] <cuddykid> oh, it might be zero pressure then - I dunno what the difference is
[14:33] <cuddykid> but there are proper envelopes that are built to float
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[14:34] <fsphil> zero pressure has a big hole in the bottom :)
[14:34] <cuddykid> ahh I see :P
[14:34] <fsphil> both ZP and SP should float if done properly
[14:34] <Randomskk> MickMondo: right, I see
[14:34] <Randomskk> well, so long as you're sure you're only transmitting 10mW :P
[14:35] <Randomskk> anyway though the other questions are more important to actually set the system up for you
[14:35] <MickyMondo> Yeah ... shift is 425 / 50 baud / 8 bit / none parity / 1.5 stop
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[14:37] <MickyMondo> both MONDO and MONDO-2 are the same sentance, MONDO-1 has battery voltage just before check sum
[14:38] <Randomskk> got it
[14:38] <Randomskk> okay, one sec
[14:39] <Randomskk> oh and what do you want to call the flight?
[14:39] <MickyMondo> sorry forgot to say battery voltage is in %
[14:39] <Randomskk> are all three going up on one balloon?
[14:39] <MickyMondo> there will be two launches
[14:41] <MickyMondo> Ummm.... Mondo is on its own the other two will be in the same payload
[14:41] <Randomskk> got it
[14:41] <Randomskk> in which case what are you calling the two flights?
[14:41] <Randomskk> this is just whatever name you want really
[14:42] <Upu> hey Mick you found Randomskk :)
[14:42] <Upu> afternoon
[14:43] <MickyMondo> the two together can be called MONDO TEST and the single one ( Mondo ) can be call MONDO ALT .. hope that makes sense
[14:43] <Randomskk> sure thing
[14:43] <Randomskk> I'll get that set up now.
[14:43] <MickyMondo> Yeah,, cheers Anthony
[14:44] <MickyMondo> Cheers for that, I always think I'm being a pain ...
[14:44] <Randomskk> not at all
[14:47] <MickyMondo> Anthony,,, you got those MAX boards and ceramic antenna in stock..?
[14:47] <Upu> yep
[14:47] <MickyMondo> COOOOOOOOOOL
[14:47] <Upu> if you put an order in I'm shipping some tomorrow
[14:47] <MickyMondo> I'll get on there and get one
[14:47] <MickyMondo> oR two
[14:48] <Upu> no problems
[14:49] <Randomskk> MickMondo: still XOR checksum?
[14:49] <MickyMondo> Forgot to say, do you want me to link your site from my website ..?
[14:50] <Upu> my site ?
[14:50] <MickyMondo> yes XOR
[14:50] <Upu> You're more than welcome that would be great
[14:50] <MickyMondo> yeah your hab supplies
[14:51] <Randomskk> MickMondo: okay I think that's all done
[14:51] <MickyMondo> Can you send me a LOGO or can I steal one from the site
[14:51] <Randomskk> all three callsigns should show up in your dl-fldigi either now (if you're using a testing version) or in about five minutes (current version)
[14:51] <Randomskk> and then if you test with them it should go through to spacenear.us
[14:52] <Randomskk> which should show all the data from the sentences with the right descriptions
[14:52] <Upu> jsut steal the one from the site its the largest I have :)
[14:52] <Randomskk> give me a shout if there are any issues
[14:53] <MickyMondo> I'll get to it,, many thanks for your help Randomskk.. cheers Mick
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[15:03] <Upu> blimey
[15:03] <Upu> 3 flights this weekend
[15:04] <daveake> 5 in 3 days
[15:04] <fsphil> get your colinears ready gentlemen
[15:05] <daveake> start your decoders
[15:05] <Elmar_PD3EM> lol... getting busy! Need more transceivers in the shack ;-)
[15:05] <Randomskk> cuddykid: I don't see a HABE payload set up, only HABE2
[15:06] <Matt_soton> will the sheer number of flights be the slow death of the ntx2?
[15:06] <cuddykid> Randomskk: I'll get it generated if I go ahead with the launch
[15:06] <Randomskk> ah ok, no worries then
[15:06] <daveake> Which reminds me ... what do I need to connect 1 aerial to 2 receivers with lowest loss/reflections
[15:07] <Matt_soton> daveake: best way is to get some sort of active device
[15:07] <Randomskk> well a splitter always gives you 3dB attenuation
[15:07] <Randomskk> so you want like, a splitter followed by a LNA or preamp
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[15:07] <Randomskk> or a preamp followed by a splitter :P
[15:07] <jcoxon> hey Elmar_PD3EM
[15:07] <daveake> Yeah still waiting for my preamp kit to arrive
[15:07] <Randomskk> reflections is just about making sure it's a 50 ohm match
[15:07] <daveake> Must chase that up
[15:07] <Elmar_PD3EM> hey James!
[15:07] <Randomskk> you can make a splitter using three resistors really
[15:07] <Matt_soton> mind you with strong signals just connect it all together
[15:07] <r2x0t> or SDR that can take 1-2MHz of BW and deal with it in processing...
[15:07] <Randomskk> that's the easy part
[15:07] <Matt_soton> thats what i do with my tv and digibox...
[15:07] <jcoxon> Elmar_PD3EM, see PM i sent you
[15:08] <daveake> Randomskk Yeah the 3 resistors I know about I was wondering if there was a lower loss way
[15:08] <Randomskk> not without active amplifiers
[15:08] <daveake> ok ta
[15:08] <Matt_soton> daveake: there is a set amount of power from the antenna, it will always have to be shared between the two recievers
[15:08] <daveake> Sure but there's loss in the resistors too
[15:08] <Randomskk> 3dB is half power, in other words both radios get half the power (-3dB) that they could have
[15:09] <Randomskk> not.. really
[15:09] <Randomskk> the way you have losses on the resistors gets more complex at RF but basically that's not where the loss comes in
[15:09] <daveake> oh, ok
[15:09] <Matt_soton> what three resistor circuit are you refering to anyway?
[15:09] <Randomskk> any star/delta circuit with appropriate values for impedance matching
[15:09] <daveake> ta, can do that
[15:10] <Matt_soton> oh ok, i havnt actually bothered to check how you would split the signals anyway
[15:11] <fsphil> daveake, how heavy was buzz2?
[15:12] <daveake> 150g inc chute, IIRC
[15:12] <fsphil> not bad
[15:12] <daveake> flabby :D
[15:12] <daveake> Last one was 60
[15:12] <fsphil> just planning on what to put in the next flight
[15:12] <fsphil> aiming for 100g, was wondering if that was too heavy
[15:13] <daveake> Nah, it's fine. Remember the balloon will be 10-20 times as heavy as the payload
[15:13] <fsphil> indeed
[15:13] <fsphil> most of the weight will be batteries
[15:13] <fsphil> of the payload that is
[15:13] <daveake> With these small payloads I do get caught up trying to save the last grams, but it's really not a big factor
[15:14] <fsphil> yea
[15:14] <Randomskk> hmm
[15:14] <fsphil> it's all to do with the balloon
[15:14] <Randomskk> I said it's -3dB using resistors as a splitter
[15:14] <daveake> For Buzz2 I put in AAs instead of AAAs in case we had trouble finding it. Just as well as it turned out :)
[15:14] <Randomskk> but I just did the maths and a delta combination of 50 ohm resistors gives you 6dB attenuation
[15:15] <fsphil> I'm thinking of using 6x AA's, just incase I miscalculate and it floats
[15:15] <number10> blow the hab budget daveake http://www.wsplc.com/acatalog/copy_of_Antenna_Spliiter_Combiners.html
[15:15] <Randomskk> so actually perhaps you are better using a transformer based approach
[15:16] <Randomskk> http://www.qrp.pops.net/swl-ant-split.asp presents one example
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[15:17] <daveake> Well, when the pre-amp finally shows, 6dB won't really matter
[15:17] <Randomskk> an ideal splitter gives 3dB attenuation, can't beat that without an amp
[15:17] <Randomskk> but the resistors give 6dB I think.
[15:17] <daveake> Cool, thanks for doing the calcs :)
[15:18] <daveake> I do have an SDR so maybe it's going to be better to use that to track multiple flights
[15:18] <Randomskk> probably
[15:18] <Randomskk> well
[15:18] <Randomskk> depends on its sensitivity
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[15:18] <Randomskk> compared to your normal receivers with a splitter
[15:19] <daveake> Not used on a flight yet
[15:19] <daveake> Was hoping to for navrac's
[15:20] <Randomskk> :( I'm back to uni this saturday so can't track any of the weekend flights
[15:20] <Randomskk> and I don't think I can bring the colinear to uni with me...
[15:21] <Matt_soton> attach it to the roof of the car and track as you drive
[15:21] <Randomskk> hmmm... :P
[15:21] <Randomskk> car's too packed full anyway, not a chance
[15:22] <Matt_soton> i have the advantage of not clearing my room out every term
[15:22] <Matt_soton> but it does lead to stuff building up
[15:22] <Matt_soton> my housemate now has easily 2-3 car loads at the house
[15:22] <jcoxon> hmmmm occasionally my crc16 has only 3 chars in it
[15:22] <fsphil> are you 0 padding it out?
[15:22] <Randomskk> use %04X in your printf
[15:22] <fsphil> %04X?
[15:23] <Randomskk> otherwise it could be just one char
[15:23] <Randomskk> e.g. if it were 000A, it'd just output A
[15:23] <Randomskk> and make things sad
[15:23] <jcoxon> oh i see
[15:23] <jcoxon> its the switch i did from xor to crc
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[15:23] <jcoxon> left itt at 02
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[15:42] <costyn> hi all
[15:42] Action: costyn is back from vacation
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> costyn: Congratulations!
[15:44] <Elmar_PD3EM> hi costyn!
[15:44] <Elmar_PD3EM> how was your vacation?
[15:45] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: pretty bad actually; apart from not much good weather and other plans not going as planned, I now also have a broken leg
[15:46] <Randomskk> :(
[15:46] <costyn> yea :(
[15:46] <Elmar_PD3EM> pfffff..... that sounds REALLY bad.....
[15:46] <costyn> it was
[15:46] <costyn> and is heh
[15:46] <costyn> cast comes above my knee which severely limits mobility and balance when walking with crutches
[15:47] <Elmar_PD3EM> you went skiing?
[15:47] <costyn> Elmar_PD3EM: no, was on Gran Canaria with the family ; on the last day slipped on some gravel and had a really shitty landing. Was carrying my 2 year old so didn't have my hands free to catch myself on landing
[15:48] <costyn> if it was during skiing would've been at least doing something fun heh
[15:48] <Elmar_PD3EM> ohw...
[15:49] <costyn> anyways, does give me a lot of free time the coming 5 weeks
[15:49] <costyn> heh
[15:49] <fsphil> ooch
[15:49] <Elmar_PD3EM> yeah... free time but much less mobile
[15:49] <costyn> yup
[15:49] <fsphil> I'm surprised you where not set upon by ants, cats and spiders when you fell. Gran Canaria has lots of those
[15:50] <costyn> fsphil: LOL :) yea although I didn't see a lot of cats actually
[15:50] <fsphil> at least the part I seen :)
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[15:50] <fsphil> might have just been where we stayed
[15:50] <costyn> prolly
[15:51] <fsphil> nasty looking cats, with scars or missing eyes
[15:51] <costyn> we were inland in a 'Casa rural' ; steered clear of the coastal cities with the teeming herds of elderly german couples
[15:52] <fsphil> we where near the coast. and there where lots of germans, though not that elderly
[15:52] <fsphil> made friends with a few even though I don't speak german. amazing how much communication you can do through hand gestures :)
[15:53] <costyn> I guess it depends on the city; in Maspalomas where we spent an afternoon where my preconceptions on the Canaries were confirmed
[15:53] <costyn> hehe true
[15:53] <costyn> inland the locals don't speak much if any english, and i only speak a few words of spanish, but still manage to do grocery shoping and get some directions
[15:53] <daveake> to A&E I presume?
[15:54] <Randomskk> hand gestures are the universal language :D
[15:54] <costyn> A&E?
[15:54] <daveake> Accident & Emergency
[15:55] <costyn> daveake: yea but also visited maspalomas before my shitty accident
[15:55] <daveake> i.e. the hospital to get your leg fixed !
[15:56] <costyn> :) had the fall on the morning of the last day, so they put it in temporary cast and gonna get it set up properly tommorow
[15:57] <costyn> so... anything exciting happen? I did read some of the mailing list emails, although there were quite a lot of them :)
[15:57] <daveake> Quite
[15:57] <daveake> Quite a few flights
[15:58] <daveake> Some tree landings
[15:58] <daveake> Some during ascent :D
[15:58] <costyn> heh
[15:58] <costyn> that was yours 2 weeks ago wasn' it?
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[15:59] <daveake> Yeah, foil into a tree. Repeated a couple of hours later with more success
[15:59] <costyn> daveake: did you recover the payload in the tree?
[15:59] <costyn> or is it stil up there?
[15:59] <daveake> Still up there
[16:00] <costyn> heh
[16:00] <daveake> too high and too protected
[16:00] <daveake> old damaged tracker so it doesn't matter
[16:00] <costyn> ok :)
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[16:06] <Morseman> daveake You can make an equal two way divider for single 50 ohm feed using two lengths of 75 ohm coax see http://www.uksmg.org/content/split.htm
[16:07] <Morseman> But you will need to recalculate the lengths for the frequency you want
[16:07] <daveake> thanks, I'll have a look at that
[16:07] <Randomskk> haha coax
[16:07] <Randomskk> so weird
[16:08] <Morseman> It's a comon way to phase two yagis on various bands
[16:08] <Randomskk> you can make anything out of various lengths of various coax :|
[16:08] <Morseman> OK - coaxial construction RF cable. Better? ;-)
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[16:08] <Randomskk> Morseman: oh I wasn't being pedantic, just marvelling at coax
[16:09] <Morseman> OK, being a pedant myself I was just covering my tracks. LOL
[16:09] <Randomskk> :P
[16:10] <Elmar_PD3EM> wouldn't it be easier to put up a second antenna? ;-)
[16:10] <Randomskk> better yet, put up a second antenna then use the splitter to phase them together
[16:10] <Randomskk> then another splitter to connect two radios to the phased array
[16:10] <Randomskk> ;D
[16:10] <Elmar_PD3EM> haha
[16:11] <navrac> PING JCOXON
[16:12] <jcoxon> hey navrac
[16:12] <navrac> hiya
[16:12] <jcoxon> will you be here in an hour
[16:12] <jcoxon> got to pop to hte shops before they close
[16:12] <navrac> yes should be
[16:12] <Morseman> I've heard of that being done...
[16:12] <jcoxon> cya
[16:12] <navrac> no prob
[16:12] <Morseman> But the splitters were for different bands to use two antennas, two radios but one feeder
[16:13] <Elmar_PD3EM> bbl... now time to make some dinner
[16:13] <gonzo_p> those are usually called diplexers, not splitters
[16:13] <Morseman> same difference
[16:14] <gonzo_p> could result in confusion
[16:14] <Morseman> If you want a really complicated scheme try 4 verticals in a square and feed different lengths of coax to change the direction of transmission...
[16:15] <Morseman> A company even made a system to put on a car to DF with
[16:15] <gonzo_p> datong
[16:15] <gonzo_p> used to have one
[16:16] <Randomskk> pft, different lengths of coax -- just do a whole ton of clever DSP and you can get superresolution DF
[16:16] <Morseman> There was a design for crossed yagis to produce right hand or left hand circular polarisation, or vertical/horizontal - lots of coax, connectors and switches...
[16:16] <gonzo_p> thought of one for hab recovery, but they only work reliably on a cw carrier
[16:16] <gonzo_p> a polar-phaser
[16:16] <gonzo_p> we have some on our club's sat arrays
[16:17] <Morseman> That's the one - Datong
[16:17] <gonzo_p> not a fan of them myself tbh
[16:17] <Morseman> Lots of losses though
[16:17] <Morseman> and potential for broken connectors
[16:18] <gonzo_p> for sat you only really need lhc or rhc. Better done with a relay switch on the antenna
[16:20] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "[UKHAS] More provisional launch(es) for Friday 13th"
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[16:31] <Bob_G8NSV> hi all
[16:31] <nigelvh> Yo
[16:32] <Bob_G8NSV> just trying to get fldigi working with hamlib
[16:32] <jdtanner> Chaps, what would be a rough cost for a roof mount and directional antenna&roughly?
[16:33] <Randomskk> as in, a yagi on a rotator?
[16:33] <jdtanner> sorry&no&a yagi and whip
[16:34] <jdtanner> (SEPARATELY)
[16:34] <Randomskk> how would you aim the yagi?
[16:34] <jdtanner> (sorry&for shouting)
[16:34] <jdtanner> (a'la&http://widerimage.co.uk/docs/Mountain_Yagi_434_4Element.pdf)
[16:35] <r2x0t> fixed yagi in some direction?
[16:35] <Randomskk> well the yagi points in one direction, if you want to use it for HAB stuff you'll need some way of rotating it
[16:35] <Randomskk> whip's probably not a great idea for roof mount when you can get a colinear, which is a larger vertical antenna that'd probably work better.
[16:36] <Randomskk> if you have to pay someone to mount it on your roof that's going to cost a lot more. you may need to get planning permission for it too, which will have costs and time.
[16:36] <jdtanner> yeah, that isn;t going to happen
[16:36] <Randomskk> a colinear's like £60 perhaps. the yagi depends on how big you get it
[16:36] <r2x0t> if you can't afford rotator for yagi, collinear with preamp is much better option
[16:37] <jdtanner> suddenly the mobile phone tracking that we were originally oing to use seems worth the risk of total loss :/
[16:37] <Randomskk> you don't need to install antennas on your roof to track your radio payload...
[16:38] <Randomskk> most people just put a whip on the windowsill or on the car roof or something
[16:38] <Morseman> If you want a very portable yagi for 70cm (with the option of 2M as well) SOTA do a portable system http://www.sotabeams.co.uk/SB270.htm
[16:39] <jdtanner> Is a whip in the car good enough for tracking?
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[16:39] <r2x0t> it's ok if you can decode gps from signal
[16:39] <jdtanner> (I feel like I'm back at preschool)
[16:39] <r2x0t> it's not good if you want to drive in a direction of signal just based on strength
[16:39] <Randomskk> a whip in the car should be totally fine
[16:39] <jdtanner> No, it is to decode...
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[16:40] <mfa298> a lot depends on location but I've tracked a couple of balloons in a vehicle quite happily.
[16:40] <jdtanner> Great, that is what I needed to know. What whips are people using?
[16:40] <Morseman> If you are close enough a 1/4 wavelength whip on a mag-mount on the top of the car will be OK
[16:40] <mfa298> Ive
[16:40] <jdtanner> Morseman: that is exactly what I'm after
[16:40] <mfa298> I've got a comet 2/70 magmount. although a pure 70cms magmount might be better
[16:41] <Randomskk> yea I just have a 2/70 magmount
[16:41] <Randomskk> it's easy, cheap, readily available
[16:41] <jdtanner> Bill. thanks
[16:41] <jdtanner> Brill even
[16:41] <jdtanner> :P
[16:41] <Morseman> I have an old dual band vertical (2M and 70cm on one antenna) in the garage if anyone wants one (no cost but no mag mount - you will have to buy that yourself)
[16:41] <mfa298> it's also a lot more useful if you're trying to track as you can get the data as the balloon drops if you're fairly close to it.
[16:42] <chrishillcox> Forgive my interuption. Is David Alexander still tuned in?
[16:42] <jdtanner> Yes, join #peaksky
[16:43] <jdtanner> Thanks eveyone. Morseman: I might take you up on that.
[16:44] <Morseman> No problem - PM me your address
[16:47] <Morseman> I used it on 70cm from the car so it works - just been in the garage a long while
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[16:48] <Bob_G8NSV> has anyone managed to get fldigi and hamlib working under XP?
[16:49] <Bob_G8NSV> hamlib works fine with my sat tracking prog and controls my funcube ok but dlfldigi wont set up, no list of rigs?
[16:50] <Morseman> I did have Hamlib working with my TS2000X but on the 'new' PC it's a bit more hit and miss - keeps saying that the mode is failing to report
[16:50] <Morseman> There's a drop down on the Hamlib tab
[16:51] <Bob_G8NSV> yes when I click the rig box its empty and when I start dlfldigi it come up with an error saying no such rig
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[16:51] <Morseman> What rig Bob_G8NSV? I'll go and look on the upstairs PC for the drop down
[16:52] <Bob_G8NSV> Im using SDR-Radio, that uses kenwood commands, its 216in hamlib
[16:52] <jcoxon> hmmm is hamlib compiled into xp dl-fldlgi?
[16:52] <jcoxon> that might be why you aren't getting anything
[16:52] <Randomskk> if not then the tab won't appear
[16:52] <Bob_G8NSV> works fine from gpredict on my other pc it talks fine and tunes the sdr
[16:52] <Morseman> OK - I think any ICOM will do but you may need to spoof the C-IV number
[16:53] <Bob_G8NSV> im using the hab version downloaded from a link on ukhas
[16:54] <Bob_G8NSV> no rigs at all showing, the dropdown is empty
[16:58] <mfa298> I'd tried playing with it and think I had issues getting hamlib to work but managed to make rigcat work this is with an 817
[16:59] <mfa298> but I normally use HRD for rig control.
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[17:00] <Bob_G8NSV> where does fldigi keep its config file?
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:00] <Hibby> Bob_G8NSV: have you got hamlib set up to act as a tcp/ip server
[17:00] <Bob_G8NSV> yes
[17:00] Action: Hibby hasn't used any of these tools since the fire, so I'm rusty as hell, sadly.
[17:00] <Bob_G8NSV> works fine with a satellite tracker on another pc
[17:01] <Bob_G8NSV> changes freq and tracks for doppler I can see all the debug messages in the command window
[17:02] <Bob_G8NSV> but fldigi just gives an error on start if you tick the use hamlib box
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[17:03] <Morseman> Bob_G8NSV Just looked and can't find seperate INI files - It alls eems to be in the FLDigi exe file
[17:04] <Bob_G8NSV> it saves your callsign and location data but where?
[17:04] <Bob_G8NSV> it must have some sort of config file or does it use the registry?
[17:04] <Morseman> On the dropdown doesn't have a generic for SDR-Radio but I think I got the Perseus working with HRD then connected to FLdigi by using one of the Icom options
[17:05] <cuddykid> lots of launches lined up for friday/weekend!
[17:05] <Morseman> I looked under 'applications' which is where most programs put those things if not in their installation folders but didn't spot anything
[17:06] <Bob_G8NSV> I think my build is corrupt cos it has no radios in the dropdown at all, I cant select anything
[17:06] <Morseman> Should be a long list on the dropdown - certainly
[17:06] <Bob_G8NSV> very empty!!
[17:07] <Bob_G8NSV> just a little up arrow symbol when you put the cursor in the box it wont let you type anything
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[17:08] <Bob_G8NSV> Hi navrac, any luck finding Ozzie2?
[17:08] <navrac> no - not a trace - its not far away and im quite well known so if someone fids it, it will find its way home
[17:09] <Bob_G8NSV> hope so
[17:10] <Bob_G8NSV> fighting with dlfldigi and hamlib hamlib works fine and controls the funcube and sdr-radio but cant get fldigi to do it
[17:10] <navrac> I've not tried that yet
[17:10] <Bob_G8NSV> wonder if fldigi needs to know where hamlib is?
[17:10] <Bob_G8NSV> its in my path variable
[17:11] <Bob_G8NSV> it works fine with Gpredict my sat tracker
[17:11] <Bob_G8NSV> does your dlfldigi have a drop down list of hamlib rigs?
[17:11] <Morseman> I don't have hamlib installed and it seems to work with DL-FLDigi on its own Bob
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[17:13] <Bob_G8NSV> must be my build ae you using win?
[17:14] <Bob_G8NSV> might try and download the latest build
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[17:19] <Bob_G8NSV> installed new version on another pc and dropdown works. just uninstalling old version oon other pc and will re-install
[17:22] <Bob_G8NSV> uninstalled it and still corrupt with new install, it has remembered something
[17:22] <Bob_G8NSV> remembered all my settings afer uninstall, need to find where it keeps its settings stored and scrub them
[17:23] jdtanner (~Adium@host86-153-107-183.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:23] <jdtanner> Chaps, if any of you want rid of a receiver then please drop me a pm
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[17:36] <daveake> got one that no longer works :p
[17:39] <griffonbot> @vk5fsck: Project Horus FM Repeater Balloon Flight planned 15th April - http://t.co/CeuYAndH #hamr #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/vk5fsck/status/189407084108976128]
[17:39] <cuddykid> this recursion is messing with me head
[17:40] <jdtanner> daveake: How much "no longer works" is it :P
[17:52] <Morseman> I hate it when that happens Bob_G8NSV !! and I also find that PCs lie when they say things are working...
[17:52] <Morseman> I have Windows XP pro on all of my own PCs here
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[17:53] <Bob_G8NSV> just deleted all references to fldigi from C drive, registry and re-installed from setup file which worked on other pc, exactly the same problem. must be some dependancy?
[17:53] <Bob_G8NSV> weird
[17:54] <Bob_G8NSV> it works fine on other pc gives list of rigs perfectly
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[17:54] <Bob_G8NSV> maybe it needs some runtime the rest of fldigi doesent use?
[17:55] <Bob_G8NSV> really annoying would llove to get this working, no more re-tuning when tracking!!
[18:00] <daveake> jdtanner - it started to drift so the received frequency changed. Then I started to fiddle and made it worse ...
[18:00] <daveake> So it needs fixing and aligning
[18:01] <jdtanner> Hmm&sounds a bit beyond my skills
[18:01] <jdtanner> ;)
[18:04] <Bob_G8NSV> what radio dave? I have test gear at work, might be able to sort it for you
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[18:09] <Bob_G8NSV> Sorted!!! remove the other hamlib libraries from the path statement, they must be clashing with the compiled ones
[18:12] <daveake> Bob_G8NSV FT790R, Mk I version
[18:13] <daveake> Worked great till it started drifting in a semi-random sort of way
[18:13] <Bob_G8NSV> worked on loads of those years ago at SMC could be the pll going out of lock, have you got the circuit?
[18:14] <daveake> No, but I think it's online somewhere
[18:14] <daveake> If it's a clue, when it did work it was about 8kHz out
[18:14] <daveake> i.e. I had to tune 8kHz higher than on other receivers
[18:15] <Bob_G8NSV> ooh long way not vco then may be fixable, I could take a look if you want
[18:16] <Bob_G8NSV> no promises
[18:17] <daveake> You're very welcome to :-).
[18:18] <Bob_G8NSV> email is my callsign at ntl world dot com
[18:18] <jdtanner> I'm glad my request seems to have got you towards your hw being fixed :)
[18:22] <jdtanner> Looks like I might have managed to find a loaner receiver&but I'm on the look out for one on a more permanent basis peeps.
[18:22] <Bob_G8NSV> part way there with fldigi, now just getting errors with rejected commands
[18:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> anyone got a picture of a payload, so i have an idea what you guys are sending up?
[18:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> the electronics
[18:26] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ava.jpg
[18:26] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/6410573371/in/set-72157628264170117
[18:27] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203AvaLaunch2GroundPhotosGregTomlin#5728380151653686210
[18:27] <fsphil> upu's is better :)
[18:27] <Matt_soton> http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/IMG_2069.JPG
[18:27] <Upu> its pinker
[18:27] <fsphil> certainly
[18:28] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203ProjectSwift#5721675631478542802
[18:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok hold on :-)
[18:28] <Upu> lol
[18:28] <Upu> the answer was yes :)
[18:28] <fsphil> that last one might be heading your way OZ1SKY_Brian :)
[18:28] <Matt_soton> http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-I/Finishing_Touches/Payload/Payload_001
[18:29] <Upu> that doens't look harmless Matt_soton :)
[18:29] <Matt_soton> its now known as the tank
[18:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thanks for the links guys
[18:29] <Matt_soton> also Upu you doing aprs over europe with that thing?
[18:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil my way, when?
[18:30] <fsphil> well maybe.. it's destined to be a floater
[18:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil cool, looking forward to it
[18:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> aprs freq is terriable, 100% dutycycle on the rx here, not a chance to hear anything weak
[18:31] <Matt_soton> well i hope you have a batch one howyee rather then one of the newer ones
[18:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> or is it aprs on a uhf freq?
[18:31] <Bob_G8NSV> hooray fldigi now controlling SDR-radio!!!
[18:31] <Upu> in theory yes Matt_soton though thats in the hands of fsphil and nigeys, I just did the hardware
[18:31] <fsphil> Matt_soton, I do but that's not for that flight
[18:32] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[18:32] <fsphil> OZ1SKY_Brian, dual 70cm and 2m.. rtty on 70cm, and aprs on 2m
[18:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil ahh ok. Dont know how 144800 is in the UK, but here is buzzing all the time
[18:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> is-its
[18:33] <fsphil> where I live it's basically empty
[18:33] <fsphil> I'm the only user
[18:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil ok here there is no chance to hear anything weak, i got 3-4 aprs repeaters strong
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[18:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil i got the chace app installed, so im ready to start the car :-)
[18:36] <nigelvh> Matt_soton: I think the label on that payload needs to be changed to "mostly harmless"
[18:36] <Matt_soton> well it has foam
[18:36] <Matt_soton> on the inside
[18:37] <nigelvh> mmhmm sure. I bet it's really full of lead.
[18:37] <Matt_soton> the idea is that if you can read the 'harmless' bit then any risk of harm has passed
[18:37] <nigelvh> .... till it explodes
[18:38] <Matt_soton> actually that thing had a nicrome hot wire based cutdown
[18:38] <Matt_soton> so itll catch fire if anything
[18:40] <nigelvh> Well, if it lands on a leaking propane tank, or in a black powder factory then it could 'splode.
[18:40] <nigelvh> Happens all the time you know.
[18:40] <Matt_soton> indeed
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[18:47] <daveake> We're landing in a powder keg and giving off sparks
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[18:51] <nigelvh> Now we're talking
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[18:56] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[18:59] <GW8RAK> Getting confused here with a question and can't work out the right answer.
[19:00] <GW8RAK> If I have a signal with lots of harmonics on it, will the individual voltages add together?
[19:00] <GW8RAK> I'm tuning an output filter and the input is dirty and about 6V, while the output is cleaner (but not perfect) and about 2 V
[19:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[19:16] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
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[19:27] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: ever tried to get .noinit working on stm32?
[19:28] <Randomskk> no
[19:28] <Randomskk> why bother?
[19:28] <Randomskk> is the time it takes to zero it that big a deal?
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> i use it to implement bootloading
[19:29] <Randomskk> I see
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[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> or at least i hope to use it
[19:37] <nigelvh> Hello Lunar
[19:37] <nigelvh> How's life?
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[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> good, thanks and you?
[19:39] <nigelvh> Doing well besides the bit that it's a gorgeous day outside and I'm inside working.
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> it was raining here
[19:40] <nigelvh> That's unfortunate, though you are half a world away, so not entirely suprising that the weather could be different
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:41] <nigelvh> Anything fun lately? Easter? Etc?
[19:43] <nigelvh> Perhaps found a girl since we've all been hounding you.
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[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> XD yea well I think there is something
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> Easter was good, thanks
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> and I found the Portal 2 Soundtrack on Valve's site for download
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> that is cool too :)
[19:48] <nigelvh> 1, I was going to poke some fun about the girl business, so you've shown me up there. Congrats. 2. The portal2 soundtrack is awesome.
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> the turret opera :)
[19:49] <nigelvh> I like the machiavellian bach too.
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> ingame I liked the sequence with
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> "This next test is very dangerous. To help you staying tranquil in the face of certain death, smooth Jazz will be deployed. In Three, Two, One"
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD and then the tape screeches to an halt
[19:50] <nigelvh> The people at valve are brilliant.
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:50] <nigelvh> Did you see the portal proposal?
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> Please reflect briefly on this classical music
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> *music*
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> *BUZZZ*
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> no, what is it?
[19:51] <nigelvh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8SdYz7cq04
[19:51] <nigelvh> Some level modders, and the voice actress got together to help this guy propose to his girlfriend.
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> watching now
[19:54] <nigelvh> "crippling emotional trauma, and death"
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> yay propulsion gel and facebook chat sounds
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah
[19:56] <nigelvh> "I'd hate to be trapped with one person for the rest of their life" So freaking fitting for the game.
[19:57] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: im confused by your stm32 linker script stuff
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> .word _sbss etc in the startup
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> WOW GlaDOS being nice?
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> i cant see where thats defined
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> "Oh, you're stranded"
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[19:59] <Laurenceb_> ok... they obviously are defined as it wont compile if i change the names... wtf
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh,
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> "By the way, Stephanie. How are you at multiple choice?"
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> *BAM* lights cut out
[20:02] <nigelvh> Yeah, it's awesome
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> yes!!
[20:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
[20:02] <nigelvh> Unfortunately, it's been done now
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:03] <nigelvh> If only i had thought of it and were ready to marry at the time.
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:03] <nigelvh> Oh well.
[20:03] <nigelvh> I'll live.
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:05] <nigelvh> Now to find some even more awesome way to get married and become internet famous at the same time.
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> Portal 3
[20:05] <nigelvh> hahaha
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:07] <nigelvh> Have they mentioned any plans about a portal 3? It was a fairly definitive ending...
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I think so
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> but we got the Robots
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:10] <nigelvh> Yes, but that's the co-op stuff.
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> but well
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> we see them like they are the sucessors?
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> I'm getting into spoiler range here
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:11] <nigelvh> Though, I suppose there's still a story to tell about what happens in the facility with the robots
[20:11] <nigelvh> Or did she make it out of the facility with the portal gun? I don't recall.
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[20:12] <nigelvh> And there were other test subjects, though most of them were "expired"
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> and well, Wheatly is still active
[20:13] <nigelvh> in space
[20:13] <nigelvh> 'SPAAAAAAAACE'
[20:13] <fsphil> there's cake in space
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:13] <nigelvh> The cake is a lie my friend.
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> the second and third spheres were funny too
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[20:14] <nigelvh> "Hey little lady, you got everything under control? There seems to be a lot of stuff on fire."
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> "Before the automobile brake was invented in 1895, motorists had to drive in circles until their passengers came back"
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:15] <nigelvh> What I love most is Cave Johnson's lemon rant.
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
[20:15] <nigelvh> "Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give CAVE JOHNSON lemons!"
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> there was supposed to be a fourth gel
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> adhesion gel
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> but the test players got sick while walking on the ceiling or so
[20:16] <nigelvh> "We're not exactly sure what element it is yet, but we do know one thing, it does NOT like the human skeleton"
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> lol yeah
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> XD and that one chamber where there was a bird on the railing
[20:17] <nigelvh> Which one?
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> "Oh, bird, bird, bird, bird, ohh, help me"
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[20:18] <nigelvh> Oh, from GlaDOS
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> where the glados potato was on the gun and then they came in and glados saw the bird
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> somewhere were propulsion gel was introduced
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:19] <nigelvh> "This test may include some slight time travel. Just be careful not to meet yourself. My engineers tell me that will destroy time. Forwards and backwards. So if you see a future version of yourself, just let that handsome devil go about his business."
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> XD yea
[20:19] <nigelvh> Again, valve = brilliant.
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> definately
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder if smooth jazz is a valid term
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. if there are other sorts of jazz as well
[20:24] <nigelvh> I would guess so.
[20:24] <nigelvh> Lunar: Here's all of cave's quotes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8glYx2qQx4
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> cool, thanks :)
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[20:40] <jdtanner> What are people's thoughts on flying with a RADAR reflector?
[20:41] <Randomskk> essentially pointless
[20:41] <Randomskk> in the UK
[20:41] <Randomskk> in other countries you may be required to by law
[20:41] <Randomskk> and there's no particular harm if you really want to
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[20:43] <jdtanner> Interesting; why pointless out of interest?
[20:44] <Randomskk> mostly because balloons get out of controlled airspace so fast anyway and you already have a NOTAM
[20:44] <jdtanner> Fair enough, thanks for the explanation :)
[20:45] <fsphil> and they can probably see it anyway :)
[20:45] <jdtanner> haha&maybe all these Buzz Lightyears flying through the sky :P
[20:45] <Randomskk> and even if they can't they'll probably win anyway
[20:48] <jdtanner> (I hope they would)
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[21:02] Action: Laurenceb_ was wondering what the radar cross section of a balloon was
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> was thinking you could use floaters for a stealthy passive SAR system
[21:03] <nigelvh> Since it's round, and soft, I'd guess fairly low
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> but ill probably get shot by some shady intelligence agency for coming up with that idea :S
[21:04] <nigelvh> Bye Laurence!
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[21:05] <nigelvh> If I recall my history classes at all, Japan tried to bomb the US with balloons
[21:05] <nigelvh> I don't recall hearing that it worked though.
[21:08] <jdtanner> yep, were'nt they made out of paper?
[21:09] <nigelvh> That I don't know
[21:10] <nigelvh> Though wikipedia does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon
[21:10] <r2x0t> I remember I read about these... well, it doesn't worked that "well"
[21:10] <r2x0t> but I think it killed few people
[21:10] <nigelvh> Yeah
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[21:11] <nigelvh> wikipedia says that it killed 6
[21:11] <nigelvh> of 9,300 balloons launched.
[21:12] <r2x0t> that's a lot...
[21:12] <r2x0t> but probably most haven't even made it over US
[21:12] <nigelvh> wikipedia: "About 300 balloon bombs were found or observed in North America"
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[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> the Fu-Go balloons afaik
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> as I read somewhere, later they were supposed to carry B-Weapons
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> or even a person
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> in a kamikaze version
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> how senseless that is
[21:17] <staylo> Though completely irrelevant, the bat bomb is more interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb
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[21:29] <nigelvh> I had not heard of that. And it is quite intruiging.
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[21:40] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: adding a section seems to work
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> .noinit : { *(.noinit) . = ALIGN (8); _end = .; __end = .; } >ram AT>rom
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> to the linker script
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[21:40] <Laurenceb_> i dont know why everything uses align(8) in the lanchon stuff
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> or is there some weird thumb2 thing where it can hardfault without that?
[21:47] <Randomskk> random magic
[21:48] <jdtanner> Hi all, another daft question for you all&although I've trawled the datasheets this time for an answer and can't find one...
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, question mode engaged
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> please form question
[21:49] <jdtanner> If I have an NTX2 running off an arduino mini (3.3V), what is the best way to achieve a 425Hz shift in the transmission.
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> jdtanner, refer to http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 this resistor network
[21:51] <Hix> who knows much about lasers?
[21:51] <jdtanner> Yeah, I've looked at that but it refers to a 5V supply&is their a calculation to show the required change in voltage to lead to the required shift?
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> oh, you are right
[21:52] <jdtanner> :)
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> I would like to ask the audience on that one
[21:52] <jdtanner> I see lots of resistors&as a voltage divider&but I'm too much of a noob to be able to figure it out
[21:52] <jdtanner> haha
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, could you please briefly explain how the shift is calculated as a function of R?
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> in the meantime, smooth jazz will be deployed. In Three, Two, One
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> *jazz playing and music suddenly slowing to a halt*
[21:54] <jdtanner> ;P
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:03] <jdtanner> haha&looks liek it might be a bblack art :P
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[22:05] <jonsowman> Vmark = Vs*(R2+R5 / R2+R5+R4)
[22:05] <jonsowman> Vspace = Vs*(R4 / R2+R5+R4)
[22:05] <jonsowman> er, those are totally the wrong way round
[22:06] <jonsowman> >.>
[22:07] <jdtanner> cool&thanks
[22:07] <jdtanner> so the voltage difference corresponds to a 425Hz shift?
[22:07] <jonsowman> evaluate the above for Vs = 5
[22:07] <jonsowman> and see what the voltage difference is
[22:08] <jonsowman> then adjust R2 to give you same difference at Vs=3.3
[22:08] <jdtanner> yep&thanks :)
[22:08] <jdtanner> really useful
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> thank you as well jon
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman
[22:08] <jonsowman> no probs
[22:09] <Randomskk> or you can just use the same resistors, get less shift, tell people what the shift is
[22:09] <Upu> its 0.0005volts per Hz of shift
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[22:09] <Upu> 0.2125v for a 425Hz shift
[22:10] <jonsowman> :)
[22:10] <jdtanner> Is that written down somehwere Upu?
[22:10] <Upu> yes about 4 lines above this one
[22:10] <jonsowman> you mean apart from a post it note on Upu's monitor?
[22:11] <Upu> NTX2 range is 6000hz
[22:11] <Upu> @3v
[22:11] <Upu> 3/6000 = 0.0005v
[22:11] <jdtanner> :) I've been looking for that magic number&didn;t think to do that simple calc :P
[22:11] <Hix> hi Upu, did you get the MC55's?
[22:12] <Upu> ah Hix!
[22:12] <Upu> been looking for you
[22:12] <Upu> yes fantastic thanks
[22:12] <Upu> how much do I owe you ?
[22:12] <Hix> yeah - been busy trying to sort a job
[22:12] <Hix> sort it out sometime - no urgency
[22:12] <Upu> ok
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello Hix
[22:13] <Upu> not use them yet but going to start a new "full fat" payload at somepoint with those on it
[22:13] <Hix> Hi Lunar_Lander
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> btw, "fat payload"
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> I read about a Japanese made payload for the measurement of conductivity and electric fields
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> was a metal box weighing 6 kg
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> they flew that in the mid
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> 1950s I think
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> and when I read in antartica they flew a 17 kg LHe cooled cryogenic gas sampler on a 4500 balloon
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> at least the chance to hit someone on the head is remote there
[22:16] <Hix> On the bright side - ive been getting to grips with arduino and now have a lser trigger for my Nikon
[22:16] <nigelvh> I know a guy who's flown payloads in antarctica the size of mini-fridges
[22:16] <nigelvh> correspondingly he knows of people who've flown payloads the size of small cars.
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> OHH
[22:16] <Upu> right bed time nn all
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> but not on rubber balloons anymore?
[22:16] <jdtanner> night
[22:16] <nigelvh> Evening upu
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> good night Upu and thank you
[22:16] <nigelvh> Lunar: no, not latex balloons
[22:16] <Hix> bye Upu
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> I think 20 kg is the absolute max what rubber could carry anyway
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> based on the 17 kg for the air sampler
[22:17] <nigelvh> 20kg isn't light.
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> and as I said they had 4500 balloons
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> I mean 4.5 kg balloons
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> whereas hwoyee and kaymont have 3000 in stock as max
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> and hwoyee said they don't make custom sizes
[22:18] <nigelvh> mmhmm
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> and kaymont seldom answers e-mails
[22:18] <nigelvh> At least for the likes of us
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:19] <nigelvh> Wanna buy 10,000 of them, sure they'd answer
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> Steve should ask
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy, ah you are there
[22:19] <RocketBoy> yep
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> could you ask kaymont if they would theoretically make a 4500 balloon?
[22:20] <RocketBoy> totex?
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:20] <RocketBoy> kaymont sell totex balloons branded KCI...
[22:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] XTend RF Modems - 1 Watt/900 MHz Stand-Alone Radio Modems
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[22:22] <RocketBoy> well I have to chase them - so I'll ask - but I don;t think totex do anything bigger than 4000
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, thanks :)
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[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> if you want to have a reference, as I said above, the 4500 were used for gas sampler flights at the japanese antartic station
[22:26] <nigelvh> What do you want a 4500 for anyway Lunar? Planning a trip to antarctica soon?
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD I am just asking for the possibilities
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> and I wanted to find out if they were especially made for them or so
[22:29] <nigelvh> I see.
[22:29] <nigelvh> So it's a "because you can" sort of deal.
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> and because it makes me to search the relevant papers again
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[22:46] <jdtanner> Hmm, I'm trying to play with those resisotr values&but the difference I'm getting isn't 0.2125V
[22:46] <jdtanner> Anyone else plyed with them?
[22:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "Re: [UKHAS] XTend RF Modems - 1 Watt/900 MHz Stand-Alone Radio Modems
[22:55] <Hix> jdtanner, couldn't the difference be down to the tolerance build up with all the resistors?
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[22:58] <jdtanner> Using the above calcs I get 2.25Vmark and 2.75Vspace
[22:59] <jdtanner> 5V in total
[22:59] <jdtanner> so the divider works :)
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[23:07] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] XTend RF Modems - 1 Watt/900 MHz Stand-Alone Radio Modems
[23:10] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Patch vs Yagi?"
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[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> yay jdtanner
[23:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "Re: [UKHAS] GPS questions - Lassen IQ? And UARTs in general?"
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 10 2012