highaltitude.log.20120405

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[00:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti.com/ww/en/more/solutions/solar.shtml?DCMP=national_winning_combo&HQS=microinverter-bhp - interesting - 27mW GPS
[00:54] <SpeedEvil> err
[00:54] <SpeedEvil> no
[00:54] <SpeedEvil> (in low power mode)
[00:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti.com/product/cc4000-tc6000gn
[01:02] <NigelMoby> oo
[01:04] <NigelMoby> wonder if cocom is same as ublox
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> It does not clarify the units
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> I mean and/or
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[01:08] <NigelMoby> will have a look tomorrow, nets being dodgy on the mobile :(
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> :/
[01:09] <SpeedEvil> $10/2k is the only price I can find - it's not porpoerly out yet
[01:18] <NigelMoby> meh looks like its bga and 2.1v only
[01:18] <NigelMoby> that's gonna be a right assache :(
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[01:19] <SpeedEvil> BGA is annoying.
[01:20] <SpeedEvil> I haven't looked at the tootprint - might be cheatable
[01:21] <NigelMoby> actually its not bga, just a grid of pads
[01:21] <NigelMoby> even worse...lol
[01:22] <NigelMoby> http://www.tc6000.gns-gmbh.com/files/tc6000gn-p1_datasheet_v019.pdf
[01:25] <SpeedEvil> The pinout doesn't look too bad actually
[01:25] <SpeedEvil> Unless I'm confused, I think it could even be done single sided
[01:27] <NigelMoby> Ohh still a pita that its 2.1v
[01:27] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[01:27] <SpeedEvil> I think 2.1 is readably by a 3.3 micro
[01:28] <SpeedEvil> So in principle, you coul just need a couple of resistors
[01:28] <NigelMoby> ahh that'd be cool
[01:30] <NigelMoby> right, sleep, catch you later speedy.
[01:31] <SpeedEvil> Night!
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[07:47] <root__> .
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[08:03] <schofieldau> stop
[08:04] <schofieldau> whoops
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[08:10] <Darkside> lol
[08:10] <Darkside> having fun there schofieldau
[08:10] <schofieldau> fix'd
[08:10] <schofieldau> haha yep
[08:10] <schofieldau> wanted it to run in a screen daemon on boot
[08:11] <schofieldau> wrote an init script
[08:12] <Darkside> hah
[08:12] <Darkside> i don't do that
[08:12] <schofieldau> what do you do?
[08:12] <Darkside> mainly because my server doesn't reboot
[08:12] <Darkside> i jut start it manually
[08:12] <schofieldau> 08:12:28 up 75 days, 16:56, 1 user, load average: 0.02, 0.07, 0.08
[08:12] <schofieldau> nor does mine
[08:12] <schofieldau> but I'm lazy :P
[08:13] <Darkside> 17:43:00 up 72 days, 16:29, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[08:13] <schofieldau> last reboot was for a required update
[08:13] <Darkside> ok you win
[08:13] <schofieldau> haha
[08:13] <schofieldau> at school somebody's laptop had been running for about 100 days
[08:13] <schofieldau> because they would just shut the lid
[08:13] <schofieldau> and never reboot it
[08:13] <Darkside> same with my macbook
[08:13] <Elwell> schofieldau: I have the following for IRC:
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[08:14] <Elwell> @reboot sleep 60 ; screen -dmS irc irssi
[08:15] <schofieldau> say yep that's pretty much mine
[08:15] <schofieldau> damn it
[08:15] <schofieldau> keep prefixing "say"
[08:15] <schofieldau> because this window looks similar to the screen window for my old minecraft server
[08:15] <Darkside> haha
[08:15] <schofieldau> save-all
[08:16] <schofieldau> say "UPDATE TIME"
[08:16] <schofieldau> stop
[08:17] <schofieldau> irssi is cool
[08:17] <Darkside> yes, yes it is
[08:17] <Darkside> have you got your stuff transmitting rtty yet?
[08:17] <schofieldau> nope still haven't picked up the radio
[08:17] <schofieldau> haven't had a chance to
[08:18] <schofieldau> although school's out so I have no more commitments
[08:18] <schofieldau> which means I can pick it up soon
[08:18] <schofieldau> I've done some testing and it's pretty much ready to just have the module plugged in
[08:18] <Darkside> cool
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[08:19] <schofieldau> arduino's fun
[08:19] <Darkside> yup
[08:19] <schofieldau> I think I'll buy a proper big one
[08:23] <schofieldau> and strap it to a remote control car with my old eeePC/webcam
[08:25] Action: fsphil has to reboot his server soon and ruin the uptime. 280 days
[08:27] <Randomskk> long uptimes are just "hey guys! I haven't applied any kernel security updates in x days!"
[08:27] <Randomskk> exception made for people using ksplice or similar >.>
[08:33] <jcoxon> the problem with long duration payload testing is waiting for thebugs to appear...
[08:35] <schofieldau> bugs as in a misreport of position?
[08:36] <jcoxon> anything really
[08:36] <schofieldau> could you just set up GPSgen to playback a fake course where the GPS would go in
[08:36] <jcoxon> code mistakes
[08:36] <schofieldau> then log it with dl-fldgi to a kml
[08:36] <jcoxon> could do
[08:36] <schofieldau> and compare the expected flight with the received flight?
[08:36] <schofieldau> although that's only some kinds of errors I suppose
[08:37] <jcoxon> its more when you've programmed something to happen and checking it all works
[08:37] <jcoxon> but when there is considerable delay
[08:37] <schofieldau> ah okay
[08:37] <Darkside> jcoxon: heh, i had string buffer errors on my cutdown payload
[08:39] <jcoxon> Darkside, how do you get your gps data? PUBX?
[08:39] <Darkside> jcoxon: yes
[08:39] <Randomskk> Darkside: use ubx!
[08:39] <Randomskk> it's so much better!
[08:39] <Darkside> what, the binary mode?
[08:39] <Darkside> yeah, we're considering doing that
[08:39] <schofieldau> what's wrong with NMEA?
[08:39] <Randomskk> I don't know why anyone would consider anything else
[08:39] <Darkside> one of the other team members is working on code to integrate in with our aprs and normal payloads
[08:39] <Randomskk> schofieldau: strings are a pain to parse
[08:40] <Randomskk> the binary mode is <3
[08:40] <Darkside> schofieldau: you'll need to set the ublox module into airborne mode
[08:40] <Darkside> theres example code to do that on the ukhas wiki
[08:40] <schofieldau> say yep I saw that
[08:40] <schofieldau> damn it
[08:40] <Darkside> did you find out about the radio?
[08:41] <schofieldau> nope forgot - I'll email the guy now
[08:41] <jcoxon> the reason is that i'm a bit grumpy with tinyGPS
[08:41] <schofieldau> it's SSB right?
[08:41] <jcoxon> it doesn't suit pubx at all
[08:41] <Randomskk> seriously, UBX
[08:41] <Darkside> schofieldau: yes, it needs SSB support on the 70cm amateur band
[08:41] <Randomskk> it's miles better than parsing NMEA
[08:41] <Darkside> jcoxon: terry modified it
[08:41] <Darkside> Randomskk: write us a library
[08:41] <Darkside> which we feed gps data to, and it allows us to pull out info
[08:41] <Darkside> :-)
[08:41] <Randomskk> https://github.com/adamgreig/wombat/blob/master/code/gps.c#L160-189
[08:42] <Randomskk> reimplement gps_peripheral_setup, gps_request and gps_read_byte
[08:42] <Randomskk> for your platform
[08:42] <Darkside> Randomskk: heh
[08:42] <Darkside> cool
[08:42] <Randomskk> and done, if you support doubles.
[08:42] <Darkside> very cool
[08:42] <Randomskk> you'll need to change gps_get_position to use integers if you don't want floating point
[08:42] <Randomskk> but it shouldn't be hard. in fact....
[08:43] <Randomskk> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/joey-m/blob/master/firmware/gps.c
[08:43] <Randomskk> AVR version
[08:43] <Randomskk> from jonsowman
[08:43] <Darkside> cool
[08:43] <jonsowman> :)
[08:43] <Darkside> well atm our current payloads don't need the chance
[08:43] <Darkside> change*
[08:43] <Darkside> they work well as it is
[08:43] <Darkside> but i'll probably do it for the next generation of telemetry payloads
[08:43] <Darkside> which will be the dual-band payload
[08:45] <jcoxon> Randomskk, hmmmm
[08:45] <jcoxon> that might be better
[08:45] <Randomskk> you can either turn off all the sentences
[08:45] <Randomskk> and poll for the UBX messages
[08:45] <jcoxon> tinyGPS works well for nmea
[08:45] <Randomskk> which is what I do
[08:46] <Randomskk> or, you can turn on periodic UBX messages
[08:46] <fsphil> I'm using binary ubx on the new swift boards, it's very nice
[08:46] <Randomskk> and parse them
[08:46] <Randomskk> jcoxon: yea but ubx is way less code
[08:46] <fsphil> wish I'd done it sooner
[08:46] <Randomskk> seriously
[08:46] <Randomskk> I started with ubx out of the box on wombat, it just looks the way better option
[08:46] <Darkside> at least arduino has serial_event now
[08:47] <Randomskk> it does? wow
[08:47] <Darkside> i mean, access to override the serial interrupt ISR
[08:47] <Darkside> which it didn't before...
[08:47] <Randomskk> yea...
[08:47] <Darkside> was a pain in the ass
[08:48] <Darkside> but yeah, with the binary stuff you don't need it anyway
[08:48] <Darkside> you're just polling it, like we do with PUBX
[08:48] <jcoxon> fsphil, is that what Nigey has been working on?
[08:50] <Randomskk> for reference, putting an EEPROM on boards with ubloxes is a great idea too
[08:50] <Randomskk> never need to mess about with setting nav mode or changing config or anything
[08:50] <Randomskk> you can set it once and leave it
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[08:50] <Darkside> mm, tbh i just set it on boot
[08:50] <Randomskk> better yet, if you can put a usb port on, or pass through serial for a bit, you can plug it into u-center
[08:50] <Darkside> its not much extra code
[08:50] <Randomskk> at which point configuring it is fun and easy
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[08:50] <jonsowman> i hear the MAX6s don't have USB?
[08:51] <jonsowman> which is sad
[08:54] <Randomskk> yea too small
[08:54] <Randomskk> not sure about AMY
[08:54] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/predict/#!/uuid=66adb057ff1a6560bf9cd2c04eb602374d5926dc
[08:54] <Darkside> that looks good
[08:59] <jcoxon> so here is a question - for a long duration floater say a latex like ozzie or pico, how long at night between position messages would be acceptable
[08:59] <jcoxon> and wouldn't drive people mad
[09:00] <Randomskk> depends on if it's frequency stable enough to be left to its own devices
[09:00] <jcoxon> so i've set it up to beep every 10seconds (which is one cycle of the waterfall)
[09:00] <jcoxon> so you can find it inbetween strings
[09:00] <Randomskk> does that let dl-fldigi keep it frequency locked?
[09:01] <jcoxon> well i've been playing with slow-hell
[09:01] <jcoxon> so it doesn't have an afc
[09:01] <Randomskk> ah
[09:01] <Randomskk> how come?
[09:01] <Randomskk> I guess the fact that it turns on and off the whole time makes it harder perhaps
[09:01] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:01] <jcoxon> i guess
[09:02] <jcoxon> i think slow-hell isn't bad for night time telem
[09:02] <jcoxon> low duty cycle, can come in mid string and get useful data
[09:02] <Randomskk> but, requires manual decoding and upload
[09:02] <jcoxon> i think at night you'd need to be paying attention unfortunately
[09:03] <Randomskk> fair enough
[09:03] <jcoxon> with rtty with gaps it won't be automatic
[09:03] <Randomskk> true
[09:03] <jcoxon> tis challenging...
[09:11] <jcoxon> Randomskk, quick question - the get_byte function, does it ever time out?
[09:11] <jcoxon> as in if the gps is dead what will happen
[09:12] <jcoxon> (actually i'm looking at joey-m code - i'll ask jonsowman )
[09:12] <Randomskk> oh yea it dies horribly, it's idle-wait
[09:12] <Randomskk> wombat and joey both have watchdog timers
[09:12] <Randomskk> that reset the chip if it doesn't clear them every n seconds
[09:12] <Randomskk> ideally both would be interrupt driven
[09:12] <Darkside> hha
[09:12] <Randomskk> better yet, with a timer to check that the peripheral has responded
[09:12] <Darkside> my code needs that
[09:12] <Darkside> my cutdown
[09:12] <jonsowman> yeah that's the only useful solution to that i could come up with in the few hours i had to write firmware before flight
[09:12] <Randomskk> but both were written at fairly short notice
[09:12] <jonsowman> the wdt works fine though
[09:12] <Randomskk> the temperature sensor is also i2c which is also a busy wait loop
[09:12] <jonsowman> idt it ever timed out
[09:13] <Randomskk> so if the temp sensor dies or if either peripheral messes up a bit, it'l die
[09:13] <Randomskk> but then yea, it'l get reset
[09:13] <Randomskk> so w/e
[09:13] <Randomskk> with more time (aka next revision) it'l move to being entirely interrupt driven
[09:13] <Randomskk> and probably with checks to ensure it's still working
[09:13] <Randomskk> still have the watchdog though, they're handy
[09:14] <jcoxon> cool - just checking
[09:17] <schofieldau> Darkside: I recall reading something about you buggering up an arduino attempting to flash it for the watchdog timer
[09:17] <Darkside> dunno about that
[09:17] <schofieldau> ah
[09:17] <schofieldau> may have been someone else
[09:17] <Darkside> maybe it was terry
[09:18] <schofieldau> do you still need to flash a custom bootloader to use the watchdog on an arduino
[09:18] <Darkside> no
[09:18] <Darkside> watchdog is controlled via registers
[09:18] <Darkside> brownout detection you need to change fuses though
[09:20] <schofieldau> http://projecthorus.org/?p=166
[09:20] <Darkside> hah
[09:20] <Darkside> yep that was terry
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[09:38] <schofieldau> http://balloonpopculture.tumblr.com/ great HAB blog :P
[09:39] <jcoxon> not really work safe
[09:39] <Darkside> hahahhaahah
[09:39] <Darkside> awesome
[09:40] Action: Laurenceb hads Darkside some tissues
[09:40] <Laurenceb> *hands
[09:40] <Darkside> Laurenceb: i see what you did there
[09:43] <fsphil> jcoxon, yea
[09:43] <Laurenceb> i guess you discovered the hard way what happens if you try to join #porn
[09:48] <schofieldau> haha
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[09:56] <navrac> my internet connections back !
[09:57] <navrac> I can breathe again
[09:57] <Randomskk> :D
[09:58] <Laurenceb> Darkside does something else with his connection
[09:58] <Laurenceb> and it probably involves heavy breathing
[09:59] <Darkside> wat
[10:03] <gonzo_> (Thw world is saved by John Bull !)
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[10:51] <kokey> my rtl-sdr compatible card was shipped yesterday, I can't believe how excited I am
[10:54] <schofieldau> can an rtl-sdr card be used to pick up telemetry from a radiometrix NTX2 434.075MHz?
[10:54] <Darkside> yes.... but its not a rccomended receiver
[10:55] <schofieldau> yep I man just for desk testing
[10:55] <Darkside> actually wait
[10:55] <schofieldau> mean*
[10:55] <Darkside> its not a simple receive chain
[10:55] <Darkside> you'd have to run it through gnuradio first
[10:55] <kokey> well, that's what I'm going to find out
[10:55] <kokey> don't see any writeups for getting it to talk to fldigi
[10:55] <schofieldau> do keep us posted on that :D
[10:56] <kokey> but I don't see why it can't be made to work
[10:56] <Darkside> kokey: uhh
[10:56] <Darkside> you'll have to have gnuradio demodulate and then pipe the audio to fldigi
[10:56] <kokey> yeah that's what I was thinking
[10:56] <kokey> I mean, as long as there's no issue on the size, bandwidth, quality or whatever from the card
[10:57] <Darkside> kokey: yeah
[10:57] <Darkside> not at all
[10:57] <Darkside> i don't know about the sensitivity
[10:57] <Darkside> but if its a E4k tuner it won't be any worse than the funcube dongle
[10:57] <gonzo_> it's onloy 8 bit though
[10:58] <gonzo_> the fdc is 16bit
[10:58] <Darkside> yeah, means reduced dynamic range
[10:58] <r2x0t> also the rtl chip does some AGC on it
[10:58] <fsphil> wonder if the fcd firmware can be updated to send through the raw iq data
[10:58] <Darkside> but as long as the AGC in the tuner is doing what its meant to, it shouldn't be that bad
[10:58] <Darkside> fsphil: uhh
[10:58] <Darkside> fsphil: it does
[10:58] <Darkside> thats the whole point of it
[10:58] <fsphil> oh yea, it's the adc that limits the bandwidth
[10:58] <Darkside> fsphil: yes..
[10:58] <r2x0t> so if any strong signal appears in yor bandwidt, it changes AGC level
[10:59] <Darkside> r2x0t: yep. this is the problem witht eh FCD
[10:59] <r2x0t> very annoying
[10:59] <Darkside> and with ALL of these shit tuners
[10:59] <Darkside> strong signal nearby, and the AGC dips
[10:59] <fsphil> I keep thinking the tuner outputs digital iq data for some reason
[10:59] <r2x0t> can you just switch them to manual AGC or something?
[10:59] <Darkside> even if said strong signal is hundreds of MHz away
[10:59] <Darkside> r2x0t: yeahi think the AGC on the rtl can br turned off
[10:59] <schofieldau> quite a comprehensive subreddit on this http://www.reddit.com/r/RTLSDR
[10:59] <Darkside> but then you have dynamic range problems
[10:59] <gonzo_> people tend to confuse the IQ data with demodulated audio on the FCD, and put IQ directly into fldigi
[10:59] <Darkside> schofieldau: yeah, lots of people who are OMG ITS A SDR YAYAYAYA
[10:59] <r2x0t> problem is I still don't have datasheet with registers of RTL
[11:00] <Darkside> gonzo_: it wrks, funnily enough
[11:00] <Darkside> you have to tune weirdly through
[11:00] <gonzo_> yep you can get awa with iot for localb testing, but you still get the other sideband overlayed
[11:00] <r2x0t> another problem is with FIR filter used
[11:01] <r2x0t> it's 3.0MHz wide, even if you use narrower output
[11:01] <gonzo_> not good for real rxing, especially on the busy 434meg band
[11:01] <Darkside> gonzo_: yah
[11:01] <r2x0t> again, I couldn't figure out how this coeficients for filter are made, otherwise I would change it
[11:01] <r2x0t> *changed
[11:02] <Darkside> schofieldau: i'd suggest getting the radio from your friend for testing
[11:03] <r2x0t> also... Darkside, do you have complete image of entire RS92 EEPROM ?
[11:03] <Darkside> also don't worry so much about the gear used for tracking when you actually launch
[11:03] <Darkside> r2x0t: yeah
[11:03] <Darkside> a few i think
[11:03] <r2x0t> can you upload it somewhere?
[11:03] <Darkside> sure
[11:04] <schofieldau> Darkside: yeah I think I'll stick with that
[11:04] <Darkside> r2x0t: http://pipe2.darklomax.org/dump/F1244203-eeprom.bin
[11:05] <schofieldau> Darkside: I just lost it.
[11:05] <Darkside> schofieldau: 30 min
[11:05] <r2x0t> Darkside: cool, thx
[11:05] <schofieldau> Darkside: the game, that is
[11:06] <Darkside> :P
[11:06] <Darkside> r2x0t: i'll find a link to the work we did on it
[11:06] <r2x0t> the block from 0x7000-0x7200 is directly sent in telemetry
[11:09] <Darkside> r2x0t: http://pipe2.darklomax.org/dump/vaisala_rs92%20[Project%20Horus%20Wiki].pdf
[11:09] <NigelMoby> ping Laurenceb
[11:10] <Laurenceb> sup
[11:10] <NigelMoby> it turn up?
[11:11] <Laurenceb> not at home atm, will check this evening
[11:11] <NigelMoby> ahhh okies
[11:18] <navrac> ping jcoxon
[11:18] <jcoxon> hey navrac
[11:18] <navrac> got the consumption down to 8mA on 10 second cyclic
[11:19] <jcoxon> stable?
[11:19] <navrac> seems to be - going to give it a bit of a kicking now taking it in and out of lock to check
[11:19] <jcoxon> this is with your code to detect resets?
[11:20] <navrac> yes - but no sign of it being called yet
[11:20] <jcoxon> keep me updated
[11:20] <navrac> need to rejig things a bit to do sig/no signal tests as its currently on a pole out the window
[11:20] <jcoxon> i've ported jonsowman's ubx code to arduino so can dump tinygps
[11:21] <navrac> that would be good
[11:21] <jonsowman> nice one jcoxon
[11:21] <jcoxon> jonsowman, you'd done the hard work
[11:21] <navrac> right - going to try to drag things back in from the window and extend the test leads biab
[11:21] <jonsowman> it's still a little messy at the moment but it does all work
[11:21] <jcoxon> though i did add a time out to waiting for gps data
[11:22] <jonsowman> yes that's one my todo list
[11:22] <jonsowman> *on
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[11:28] <jcoxon> jonsowman, have you noticed that the ublox doesn't report sats until its got a lock
[11:29] <jonsowman> jcoxon: yep
[11:29] <navrac> i use that favility in my code to prevent sending powesave stuff when its not locked
[11:29] <jonsowman> well, it's a bit weird actually
[11:29] <Randomskk> there are two satellite reportings
[11:29] <Randomskk> one is sats in view
[11:29] <jonsowman> the one i'm using asks for "the number of sats used ot calculate the current position"
[11:29] <Randomskk> the other is sats used to calc ccurrent position
[11:29] <Randomskk> sats in view is reported whether or not it has a lock
[11:29] <Randomskk> and is usually a bigger number
[11:30] <jonsowman> yeah, mine's usually around 15-17
[11:30] <jonsowman> whilst sats is 6-8 when indoors
[11:30] <jcoxon> oh i see
[11:32] <NigelMoby> James, have u added a command to disable nmea before direct polling?
[11:33] <jcoxon> yup
[11:33] <jcoxon> well i've been doing that for a while
[11:34] <navrac> sounds a bit weird to say i'm sitting here waiting for a fix
[11:34] <Randomskk> hehe
[11:34] <schofieldau> haha
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[11:35] <NigelMoby> lol
[11:35] <navrac> its sending me the dodgey co-ordinates again without a fix
[11:35] <NigelMoby> https://github.com/ProjectSwift/swift/blob/master/gps.c
[11:36] <NigelMoby> navrac I got alot of that with Picochu
[11:36] <navrac> it seems to need to see a lot of sky
[11:37] <navrac> and the board pointing upwards
[11:37] <navrac> im sure it said in the 7.03 firmaware release that thyd fixed that
[11:37] <NigelMoby> hmm I found just angling it towards the window was ok
[11:37] <jcoxon> NigelMoby, oo thats compact
[11:37] <jcoxon> good work
[11:38] <NigelMoby> I based it on jobs and Phil made it even more compact, got to add in pdop yet.
[11:39] <NigelMoby> jons*
[11:40] <cuddykid> can any OO wizards here tell me why this doesn't work& calling calcArea() in this (sub)class -http://pastebin.com/AYX7wkyJ
[11:40] <cuddykid> which is a method of this class (it's parent class) http://pastebin.com/bhKJt5MM
[11:40] <cuddykid> doesn't work
[11:40] <NigelMoby> we found without turning off all the nmea crap it randomly errored
[11:41] <jcoxon> NigelMoby, buffer overflow?
[11:41] <Randomskk> or just that it was receiving nmea when your code expected ubx?
[11:41] <NigelMoby> watt Adam said
[11:42] <NigelMoby> nmea confused it so failed checksum etc
[11:42] <jonsowman> you could just wait for the sync bytes or whatever ublox calls them
[11:42] <jonsowman> but really just turn off NMEA and all's good
[11:42] <jonsowman> :)
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[11:42] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[11:44] <NigelMoby> jonsowman I had knightmares about eeprom last night lol
[11:45] <jonsowman> haha
[11:45] <jonsowman> :D
[11:45] <NigelMoby> I totally blame you and Phil :p
[11:45] <daveake> Programming on a round table?
[11:45] <jonsowman> oh god it's started
[11:45] <NigelMoby> lol
[11:45] <daveake> I'll go :)
[11:45] <jonsowman> actually daveake I wanted to ask you if you've had your clutch changed on your 406
[11:46] <daveake> yep
[11:46] <cuddykid> talking about eeprom - would it be fairly pain free to implement my idea of: if current altitude > saved altitude, then store in eeprom? (way of saving highest altitude without using SD)
[11:46] <jonsowman> what mileage and cost if you don't mind me asking?
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[11:46] <Randomskk> cuddykid: yea
[11:46] <daveake> Recently - last job aside from the MOT
[11:47] <jonsowman> was it slipping really badly or just starting to notice?
[11:47] <daveake> So around 205,000 or so. First change AFAIK (I've had the car since 80k)
[11:47] <daveake> Changing gear was getting more difficult
[11:47] <jonsowman> yeah mine's on its original clutch at 212k miles but it's starting to show signs of going i think
[11:47] <jonsowman> daveake: mine's getting harder to get into gear
[11:47] <jonsowman> wondering if it's the clutch dragging
[11:47] <daveake> Needed a new clutch, also the master/slave cylinder assembly (a design unique to the early V6s)
[11:48] <NigelMoby> 212k and its the original? :o
[11:48] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: yeah, these things were built to last
[11:48] <daveake> :)
[11:48] <jonsowman> daveake: mine has the hydraulic clutch as well
[11:48] <NigelMoby> blimey
[11:48] <jonsowman> not the same as the V6 I dont think, but it's the same sealed arrangement
[11:48] <daveake> Latter I got from a scrapper as Pug donn't sell them anymore
[11:48] <jonsowman> yeah
[11:49] <daveake> £40-something
[11:49] <jonsowman> was it leaking?
[11:49] <kokey> my previous car needed a new clutch a month after I bought it having 100,000km on the clock
[11:49] <daveake> I think the clutch kit was around £200
[11:49] <kokey> but that's because it was a Gibraltar based Toyota RAV4
[11:49] <daveake> ANother £200 or o for labour
[11:49] <kokey> people abuse their clutches there bigtime
[11:49] <daveake> yes leaking
[11:49] <jonsowman> it's not losing any fluid so I don't think the hydraulics...
[11:49] <jonsowman> my bet at the moment is on clutch drag
[11:50] <daveake> Sounds very likely
[11:50] <jonsowman> i dont suppose you tried engaging gears with the engine off?
[11:50] <jonsowman> mine is nice and smooth with the engine not running, which also seems to point at clutch in my head
[11:50] <daveake> No, it was definitely the clutch
[11:50] <daveake> Better changes with slower clutch movement
[11:51] <jonsowman> so it was just difficult to get into gear? (all gears?)
[11:52] <Randomskk> cuddykid: with your code
[11:52] <Randomskk> what do you mean "doesn't work"
[11:52] <daveake> Yes, especially when trying to change quickly
[11:52] <jonsowman> daveake: hmm sounds very similar
[11:52] <cuddykid> Randomskk: when the super class method is called, it's not using the subclass's variables (width and height)
[11:52] <jonsowman> was it slipping or juddery at all daveake? or just the difficult shifting?
[11:53] <daveake> Not slipping; a bit juddery
[11:53] <jonsowman> same as mine
[11:53] <jonsowman> okay great, thanks
[11:53] <jonsowman> :)
[11:53] <daveake> :)
[11:53] <jonsowman> new clutch time i think
[11:53] <cuddykid> Randomskk: i.e. when I'm calling calcArea() (which is the super class method) I was expecting it to use the width and height of the subclass in it's calculations - instead it just uses 0s
[11:55] <Randomskk> cuddykid: I'm really not a java person but
[11:55] <Randomskk> it might be to do with the fact that you redefine width and height in circle
[11:55] <Matt_soton> wow these GPSes are SO small
[11:56] <cuddykid> ahh ok, thanks Randomskk - I'll have a mess about :D
[11:56] <Randomskk> cuddykid: MyCircle gets a width and height from MyEllipse
[11:56] <Randomskk> that said
[11:56] <Randomskk> the fact that MyEllipse's width and height are private members might be an issue
[11:56] <Randomskk> I can't remember how java does private/protected/whatever
[11:56] <Randomskk> stupid java
[11:56] <cuddykid> lol
[11:56] <cuddykid> protected is access by immediate subclass only
[11:57] <cuddykid> private is access within class only
[11:57] <cuddykid> I think
[11:57] <Randomskk> yea which is an issue for you
[12:04] <kokey> java, ugh
[12:05] <Randomskk> yea.
[12:05] <Randomskk> such a boring language
[12:05] <kokey> yeah it never really got me into it
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[12:06] <kokey> and back in 90s I thought it will be the most amazing thing
[12:06] <kokey> all the things that I do like about Java, you get in python with much less pain
[12:07] <BrainDamage> python existed already in the 90s
[12:07] <Randomskk> python <3 <3
[12:07] <kokey> and then there's the stuff java developers actually release, along with many megs of bloat
[12:07] <BrainDamage> altough it was much less diffused, and libs much less available
[12:08] <kokey> I never paid attention to python much then, and I heard about ruby back then too
[12:08] <kokey> I spent more time with perl really
[12:08] <BrainDamage> I don't envy you
[12:08] <kokey> in fact, I still spend a lot of time with perl
[12:08] <kokey> and some C
[12:08] <BrainDamage> I hate perl's symbol mashup
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[12:08] <kokey> heh, yeah it's a pain for most
[12:08] <Randomskk> ruby is nice
[12:09] <kokey> I really like the way you reference your data structures in ruby
[12:09] <BrainDamage> once I had to read a perl script that along the perl "keywords" symbols, had 1-letter variable names
[12:09] <kokey> tbh screw perl6, they just need to add that one single thing to perl
[12:09] <BrainDamage> @e =
[12:10] <BrainDamage> it looked more like cat /dev/urandom than code :/
[12:10] <kokey> BrainDamage: that should only happen with perl golf really
[12:10] <Randomskk> all perl code looks like line noise
[12:11] <kokey> my $host = *data.{server1}.hostname.fqdn;
[12:11] <kokey> or something
[12:11] <kokey> that said, perl is good for prototyping stuff you want to write in C
[12:12] <kokey> that's where the weirdo variable names start to make sense
[12:23] <Randomskk> hmm http://habhub.org/zeusbot/pisg.html
[12:24] <jonsowman> you've finally overtaken ed
[12:24] <Randomskk> well
[12:24] <Randomskk> it depends
[12:24] <Randomskk> if you add up edmoore+eroomde then no
[12:24] <jonsowman> oh
[12:24] <Randomskk> but equally if you add up LaurenceB, Laurenceb, Laurenceb_ and laurenceb_ he's at 89k
[12:25] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:25] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: you're in the top 25 four separate times :P
[12:25] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:26] <Laurenceb> i might be top of the channel then
[12:26] <Randomskk> you are
[12:26] <Laurenceb> <necessary line of text>
[12:26] <jonsowman> you win... something
[12:26] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:26] <Laurenceb> lifelong loser award
[12:27] <jonsowman> haha
[12:28] <Randomskk> launch is the #7 most used word
[12:28] <Randomskk> the rest are generic english words :/
[12:29] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:29] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil always lets us know what he/she's doing: 2200 actions! For example, like this: * SpeedEvil goes to look at pictures of cats.
[12:29] <Laurenceb> hahaha
[12:30] <jonsowman> good example
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[12:55] <daveake> eroomde Have you got/seen the "Moon Machines" DVD? Lots about rockets and parachutes in there :)
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[12:56] <Laurenceb> you need to divide the line count by the time period
[12:56] <Laurenceb> that would be a better loser index
[12:57] <Laurenceb> see me jcoxon and eroomde have been on here since 2006
[12:57] <Matt_soton> daveake: did you have lassen + patch antenna issues last flight?
[12:58] <cuddykid> APM2 has arrived!
[12:58] <Laurenceb> awesome
[12:58] Action: Laurenceb puts armour plate on his windows
[12:58] <daveake> Matt_soton Yeah ... GPS stopped updating (no time even) then started up again later. Very strange.
[12:59] <Matt_soton> im guessing you had a ground plane for hte antenna?
[12:59] <daveake> Yes
[12:59] <Laurenceb> i think this makes fsphil and Darkside the "winners"
[12:59] <daveake> Been fine before, even with that
[12:59] <Matt_soton> did it just sit ontop of the ground plame?
[12:59] <daveake> Yes
[12:59] <Matt_soton> no seperation?
[12:59] <Matt_soton> because the metal of the antenna and the ground plane cannot touch
[12:59] <Darkside> Laurenceb: wha?
[13:00] <Matt_soton> they dont normally if you just place it ontop, but with a bit of wind they can
[13:00] <Laurenceb> most lines per timeperiod
[13:00] <Darkside> oh lol
[13:00] <Darkside> well i'm usually uploading from a chasecar
[13:00] <Darkside> so yeah...
[13:00] <Matt_soton> on the ground if you apply a bit of pressure to the corner so the two bits of metal touch the gps cuts out
[13:00] <daveake> I'll take it apart and check
[13:00] <Darkside> also HORUS makes up >50% of the total lines i think
[13:00] <daveake> Oooh
[13:00] <Matt_soton> thats why astra failed
[13:00] <Darkside> cansomeone link me the stats again?
[13:00] <Matt_soton> i emailed diamond point
[13:00] <Matt_soton> there has to be a small gap
[13:01] <daveake> I assumed the metal bit under the antenna was ground
[13:01] <Darkside> haven't people rea;lised the lassens are shit already?
[13:01] <Darkside> :P
[13:01] <daveake> lol
[13:01] <Matt_soton> daveake: the metal bit underneith is ground, but it cant touch the ground plane
[13:02] <NigelMoby> darkside
[13:02] <NigelMoby> http://habitat.habhub.org/stats/
[13:02] <daveake> OK 'scuse me while I try and get my head around that bit :)
[13:02] <Darkside> haha ok
[13:02] <Matt_soton> quote from the email 'There should be a small gap - it must not make electrical contact'
[13:03] <Darkside> flights pie is fun
[13:03] <daveake> Interesting, TVM. I shall check
[13:03] <Darkside> between HORUS, HORUS 18, DARKSIDE and the other HORUS
[13:03] <Darkside> yeah...
[13:03] <Matt_soton> np :)
[13:04] <NigelMoby> u did have it the right way up? :p
[13:05] <daveake> Yees .... :p
[13:06] <jonsowman> daveake: one more question, sorry: have you ever had your engine mounts changed?
[13:06] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/CIVrQ.jpg
[13:07] <cuddykid> oops
[13:07] <daveake> Don't think so. I know that's a common thing to get done.
[13:07] <jonsowman> yeah, thought i think it's more of a problem on the diesels
[13:07] <jonsowman> they're more vibratey
[13:10] <NigelMoby> who's call is astra?
[13:10] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/ClVrQ.jpg
[13:10] <cuddykid> that should work
[13:10] <Matt_soton> NigelMoby: mine (well partly)
[13:10] <NigelMoby> oo nicey cuddy.
[13:10] <NigelMoby> ahh
[13:10] <NigelMoby> u got most of the Picochu telem
[13:11] <Matt_soton> that antenna works really well on the roof
[13:11] <cuddykid> just need a flight vehicle now!
[13:11] <NigelMoby> tall building?
[13:11] <Matt_soton> 4/5 stories up
[13:11] <kokey> jonsowman: my friends had, and I once sold a 24 year old car which needed new mounts
[13:11] <Matt_soton> but there are a few taller ones around it
[13:11] <NigelMoby> aga that's gonna help lol
[13:12] <Matt_soton> anything east has to go through a tall buidling
[13:12] <jonsowman> kokey: hehe, 24 years is pretty good going
[13:12] <NigelMoby> eeek
[13:12] <Matt_soton> but the building is empty so you can see straight through it
[13:12] <jonsowman> my top mount is fine but i'm concerned about the bottom one
[13:13] <NigelMoby> lol nice, think Picochu would've been west of you iirc from the map location
[13:14] <Matt_soton> i think i got it to 189 but not enough to upload
[13:14] <Matt_soton> mind you was easy to find with those balloons
[13:15] <NigelMoby> yeah, it got picked up better than I thought it would, was surprised
[13:15] <kokey> jonsowman: yeah it was in pretty good condition for the age when I got it, not so when I was done
[13:16] <NigelMoby> Dave u got a lot of decodes to.
[13:16] <jonsowman> kokey: haha
[13:16] <kokey> 23 year old 280SE Mercedes doesn't stand much of a chance with a 21 year old driver
[13:16] <jonsowman> nice car :D
[13:17] <kokey> yeah I think it really started my love for big automatics since
[13:17] <jonsowman> this is a 14 year old car so it's not doing too badly
[13:18] <jonsowman> i've been expecting clutch issues for a while and i think it's just about at the point where i can't put it off any longer
[13:18] <NigelMoby> this is why I have a pushbike...lol
[13:18] <jonsowman> :D
[13:19] <NigelMoby> wonder if I cam mount a yagi on it....hmmm
[13:19] <kokey> the clutch on my RAV4 had to be replaced
[13:19] <NigelMoby> can*
[13:19] <jonsowman> kokey: what mileage?
[13:19] <kokey> but since it's 4WD, they had to take the suspension off to get to it
[13:19] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: probably not entirely safe...
[13:19] <kokey> 100,000km
[13:20] <jonsowman> mm yeah thats the problem with 4WD
[13:20] <gonzo_> the car we took out to do the recovery was 44yrs old. Older than me
[13:20] <kokey> and then after they've done that job, a few months later some little water pipe disintegrated by the gearbox, probably agitated by the clutch replacement
[13:20] <gonzo_> and as it's fibreglass, no problem using radio insode iit
[13:20] <NigelMoby> 44 :o
[13:20] <kokey> so they had to take the whole thing apart _again_
[13:20] <jonsowman> typical
[13:21] <kokey> a few months later one of the freeze plugs in the hardest to reach place started leaking
[13:21] <kokey> so they had to drop the suspension in the front again to get to it
[13:21] <gonzo_> well bits of it are 44yrs old.
[13:22] <kokey> anyway, I replaced the radiator, clutch, shocks, timing belt, brake pads, etc. etc.
[13:22] <kokey> drove it for a year, and sold it
[13:22] <daveake> Beat this then :-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17603598
[13:22] <kokey> I should phone the guy who bought it and ask him how it's going
[13:22] <jonsowman> yeah i saw that daveake
[13:22] <jonsowman> amazing
[13:22] <jonsowman> i've seen a 406 2.1 with more than half a million on it
[13:23] <kokey> I've seen some toyota land cruisers with over 1mil km on the clock
[13:23] <jonsowman> my odometer only has 6 digits :(
[13:23] <kokey> I bought a second hand car recently
[13:24] <kokey> seems like I need new spark plugs (pain on a V6), timing belt, and oxygen sensors
[13:24] <kokey> and a tire
[13:24] <kokey> probably will cost me as much as the car did
[13:24] <jonsowman> yeah i had all those done on mine recently, apart form the lambda sensor
[13:24] <kokey> if something bad goes wrong with it I'm going to be very annoyed
[13:24] <jonsowman> s/spark plugs/glow plugs/
[13:25] <NigelMoby> oxygen sensors?
[13:25] <kokey> I only found about it because I bought an obd code reader
[13:25] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: otherwise known as lambda sensors
[13:25] <kokey> and it told me one of them has an error
[13:26] <NigelMoby> Ohh right, was well confuddled then lol
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[13:27] <Laurenceb> GM diesel engines are good
[13:27] <Laurenceb> but im not sure if they even make them any more
[13:28] <Laurenceb> theres isuzu ones in newer vauxhalls/opels
[13:29] <jonsowman> old french diesels will go on forever
[13:30] <Laurenceb> isuzu diesels are horrible
[13:30] <Laurenceb> belt tensions are all nutty for a start
[13:30] <Laurenceb> then the sump always falls off the bottom
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[13:30] <jonsowman> mm that can't be good
[13:31] <Laurenceb> or the alternator gets ripped off the side
[13:31] <jonsowman> :o
[13:31] <jonsowman> how tight is the belt?!
[13:31] <Laurenceb> stupidly tight
[13:32] <Laurenceb> or the ECU oscillated the idle speed to destruction
[13:39] <Elwell> seeing as we're already OT I'll carry on ... Anyone here got a VW - is CAN the same as ODB2 or do I need an upgrade to my cheapo bluetooth thingy?
[13:39] <jonsowman> Elwell: sorry the OT'ing is my fault
[13:39] <jonsowman> also, what year is the car?
[13:39] <jonsowman> and diesel or petrol?
[13:40] <Elwell> 04, tdi 2.0 140
[13:40] <Elwell> touran
[13:40] <jonsowman> 04 is when ODBII became obligatory for diesels in europe
[13:40] <jonsowman> so it should be OBDII compatible
[13:41] <jonsowman> the port is normally somewhere near the driver's side knee
[13:41] <Elwell> has the socket, just haven't found my dongle (must be in one of the 'non car service' toolboxes
[13:41] <jonsowman> if it's an OBDII dongle then it should be fine
[13:41] <daveake> Mine has the socket but the connections are Pug-specific
[13:42] <jonsowman> what year is yours daveake?
[13:42] <Elwell> its one of those elm clone jobbies
[13:42] <daveake> 97
[13:42] <daveake> too early
[13:42] <jonsowman> yeah the petrol 406s weren't OBDII compliant until around 01-02 iirc
[13:42] <daveake> yep
[13:43] <Elwell> torque bombs out with it on the passat (tdi 130, 2003) - may splash out for some <shudder> windows software
[13:44] <Elwell> torque android app, not acceleration
[13:44] <jonsowman> i can't help you much on software, mine is also pre-OBD and requires manufacturer specific kit to talk to it
[13:46] <gonzo_> my LR is a pain too. OBC std connector/levekls etc, but bespoke protocol
[13:47] <fsphil> I won something? :) *catching up*
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[13:53] <Laurenceb> you won the lifetime loser award
[13:55] <fsphil> sweet
[13:56] <fsphil> that's the best award I got since my "never won an award" award!
[13:58] <Laurenceb> actually i win it
[13:58] <Laurenceb> but i tried to dodge it my accounting for the total time on the channel
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[14:09] <Laurenceb> cuddykid: so does APM2 work?
[14:09] <cuddykid> haven't tested it yet Laurenceb: will do in a bit
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[15:42] <cuddykid> booted up APM2 lots of lights flashing :S
[15:42] <fsphil> that's good!
[15:42] <daveake> You can see them flashing through the smoke?
[15:42] <cuddykid> lol
[15:42] <cuddykid> faintly daveake
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[16:01] <kokey> ok, weekend
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[16:31] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[16:33] <domlin> afternoon :)
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[16:34] <jonsowman> hi domlin
[16:37] <domlin> how is all?
[16:41] Action: daveake checks clock
[16:41] <daveake> End of week. All is good :)
[16:41] <jonsowman> :D
[16:41] <jonsowman> oh wait i'm a student, i haven't been at work all week
[16:41] <fsphil> theres an end of week? why didn't anyone tell me!
[16:42] <daveake> I remember those days
[16:42] <jonsowman> otoh i have to work all weekend, meh
[16:42] <jonsowman> exams :(
[16:42] <daveake> Well actually I'm not sure I even remember them now ....
[16:43] <daveake> Anyone used "firmata"?
[16:44] <daveake> I assume from the delay that the answer is "no" and everyone is googling it ....
[16:44] <stilldavid> "no"
[16:45] <daveake> .... and from the further delay that having googled it nobody cares :p
[16:45] <stilldavid> gotta love IRC, eh? :)
[16:45] <daveake> Only just spotted it myself :)
[16:45] <Randomskk> I've vaguely heard of it once perhaps
[16:45] <fsphil> what's google?
[16:45] <stilldavid> how do I internet?
[16:45] <daveake> Dunno. Maybe google it?
[16:46] <fsphil> wait, I seen a documentary about that once. if you google google the internet crashes
[16:46] <daveake> Don't do it .....
[16:46] <stilldavid> I have it on good authority that if you put google into google... you break the internet
[16:47] <fsphil> there are some who argue that this has already happened
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[16:49] <daveake> Google for hexadecimal
[16:49] <fsphil> lol
[16:49] <fsphil> like that
[16:49] <daveake> and yes it works for octal and binary :)
[16:49] <fsphil> way ahead of you
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[16:51] <daveake> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png
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[16:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Bob McNair "Re: [UKHAS] Digest for ukhas@googlegroups.com - 10 Messages in 3 Topics"
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[17:28] <nigelvh> There's also the famous do a barrel roll, and askew
[17:30] <daveake> Not seen askew before lol
[17:30] <nigelvh> They're funny guys.
[17:30] <daveake> and "where's chuck norris"
[17:31] <nigelvh> That one didn't work for me.
[17:32] jcoxon (~jcoxon@87.114.156.110) joined #highaltitude.
[17:32] <daveake> "1 horsepower in donkeypower"
[17:33] <nigelvh> 2.98 donkeypower apparently
[17:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "[UKHAS] Inviting you to Mission Control training online/local this weekend"
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[17:35] <daveake> or "recursion"
[17:36] <navrac> jcoxon - cant stop but the polling to check the poll worked
[17:36] <navrac> sorry to have dissapeared last night so quick - lost the intenet overnight
[17:36] <jcoxon> navrac, no problem
[17:37] <nigelvh> Recursion is a good one.
[17:37] <jcoxon> its not easy
[17:37] <jcoxon> navrac, i've got an on/off working
[17:38] <jcoxon> with the ubx code rather than pubx
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[17:41] <F5MVO> good evening all
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[17:48] <UpuHome> evemomg navrac did the GPS turn up ?
[17:49] <Matt_soton> UpuHome: mine did, thanks again
[17:49] <UpuHome> no probs
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[17:54] <NickB1> UpuHome, is it worth routing up the i2c to the uBlox ?
[17:54] <UpuHome> the sarantel board has the i2c broken out
[17:55] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Digest for ukhas@googlegroups.com - 10 Messages in 3 Topics"
[17:55] <NickB1> ok
[17:55] <NickB1> but its fully controllable using the uart alone ?
[17:56] <UpuHome> I believe so yes
[17:56] <UpuHome> I've not done anything with I2C
[17:56] <NickB1> ok
[17:56] <NickB1> going to leave the i2c alone then :)
[17:57] <Randomskk> the i2c is mostly useful for hooking up a EEPROM to store config
[17:57] <Randomskk> in theory you can use it for communication to get data, but, well, I'd stick with serial for that
[17:59] <NickB1> ok
[17:59] <NickB1> example code uses serial
[17:59] <NickB1> so choice made :D
[18:01] <NickB1> nearly done
[18:01] <NickB1> http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6672/falconflightcomputerv21.jpg
[18:02] <Randomskk> hmm
[18:02] <Randomskk> if you're designing a pcb
[18:02] <Randomskk> I'd really consider putting the i2c eeprom for config on there
[18:02] <Randomskk> well
[18:02] <Randomskk> I dunno
[18:02] <Randomskk> it can make life a ton easier because then the module stores the config
[18:02] <Randomskk> but if you're happy programming it at boot up each time it's no biggie.
[18:02] <UpuHome> its not that complex either
[18:03] <Randomskk> your SMA connectors are really really close to your ntx-2 btw
[18:03] <Randomskk> wait
[18:03] <NickB1> yeah I was thinking to program it during every bootup
[18:03] <Randomskk> I say that but apparently you have an rfm22b
[18:03] <Randomskk> looks like both?
[18:03] <NickB1> yeah so i can use ntx2 or rfm22b
[18:04] <Randomskk> ok
[18:04] <NickB1> not together :)
[18:04] <Randomskk> in which case yea, those parts are all really close
[18:04] <Randomskk> unless the plan is for the ntx2 to be standing up on the back of the board?
[18:05] <NickB1> the plan was to be flexible so I could choose the ntx2 or rfm22b
[18:05] <NickB1> but not together
[18:05] <NickB1> but it is indeed possible if the ntx2 is on the back side of the board
[18:05] <Randomskk> yea, but I mean the ntx2's pins are really close to its sma connectors
[18:05] <NickB1> oh :D
[18:06] <NickB1> now i onderstand :)
[18:06] <Randomskk> but it'd probably be okay if they're on opposite sides, I guess
[18:06] <NickB1> yes they are on opposide sides
[18:06] <Randomskk> looks pretty neat otherwise
[18:06] <NickB1> *opposite
[18:07] <NickB1> thanks
[18:07] <NickB1> now comes the groundplane work
[18:08] <NickB1> but have to go
[18:08] <NickB1> bye all
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[18:12] <cuddykid> anyone here filed for NOTAM for launch to the west of Shrewsbury?
[18:12] <fsphil> how west? :)
[18:12] <cuddykid> :P
[18:13] <cuddykid> 15miles or so
[18:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> whats that on 13128, bad sounding russian voice?
[18:13] <cuddykid> just spotted a NOTAM for balloon launch there between 1 and 8th April
[18:13] <fsphil> this on the notam map? phone the number :)
[18:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ups wrong window
[18:14] <cuddykid> I guess the one around Sheldon is Upu's
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[18:18] <eroomde> daveake: nope?
[18:18] <eroomde> sounds good
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[18:24] <eroomde> ive dumped about 600000 words into highaltitude since 2006
[18:24] <eroomde> bugger me
[18:24] <eroomde> thats 3 decent nivels
[18:25] <eroomde> nobels too
[18:25] <fsphil-laptop> ooh stats?
[18:25] <eroomde> oh blast this ipad keyboard
[18:25] <eroomde> novels
[18:25] <daveake> getting closer
[18:25] <Randomskk> fsphil-laptop: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/pisg.html
[18:25] Action: eroomde is in burgundy
[18:25] <eroomde> happiness xcept biprop testing continues without me
[18:26] <Randomskk> eroomde: that's not words
[18:26] <Randomskk> that's lines
[18:26] <eroomde> yes
[18:26] <Randomskk> even worse :P
[18:26] <eroomde> i assumed 10 works per line
[18:26] <fsphil-laptop> yikes
[18:26] <eroomde> and about 60000 lines
[18:26] <Randomskk> oh right, fair enough
[18:26] <Randomskk> I wonder if 10 words per line is about right
[18:26] <eroomde> pulled out of my arse
[18:26] <fsphil-laptop> I talk more than lunar_lander
[18:26] <eroomde> back in the day i was significantly more loquacious
[18:27] <eroomde> nowDays im like one of those aged men in gentlemans clubs
[18:27] <eroomde> a mere raise of the eyebrow and the point is made and the field is carried
[18:27] <Randomskk> a pity that irc provides neither eyebrow level indication nor fine scotch
[18:28] <eroomde> that can be our startup
[18:28] <Randomskk> what a startup
[18:28] <eroomde> thats how the valley works right
[18:28] <Randomskk> we could spend all the VC money on sample scotch
[18:28] <eroomde> here our pitch
[18:29] <eroomde> "everybody likes raising their eyebrow right? but whst if you could raise your eybrows AT WEB SCALE?"
[18:29] <eroomde> paul grahsm would have to visit the loo
[18:29] <eroomde> i can see it now
[18:29] <Randomskk> I'm sold already
[18:29] <fsphil-laptop> what's your bank details so I can give you my money?
[18:29] <Randomskk> have you seen this blog post someone wrote about drinking at tech conferences?
[18:29] <daveake> iBrow
[18:29] <Randomskk> or maybe you're enjoying france enough to not be reading all the crap on the internet
[18:29] <Randomskk> daveake: haha wow
[18:30] <fsphil-laptop> that's worth 10 points daveake
[18:30] <eroomde> daveake wins this pun round again
[18:30] <daveake> I need a cabinet for all these points
[18:30] <fsphil-laptop> just as well they're not big
[18:38] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:38] <eroomde> the king
[18:39] <jcoxon> that directed at me?
[18:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Digest for ukhas@googlegroups.com - 10 Messages in 3 Topics"
[18:40] <eroomde> yes
[18:40] <jcoxon> laurence has more lines then me
[18:40] <eroomde> wrt Randomskk's lines vs nicks table
[18:41] <Randomskk> laurence dominates when you add up the four of his nicks that are all independently in the top 25
[18:41] <nigelvh> "* SpeedEvil goes to look at pictures of cats. "
[18:41] <fsphil-laptop> hehe, cats
[18:42] <nigelvh> Also apparently I need to talk more. I'm not anywhere on the list.
[18:42] <jonsowman> go ahead and just spam the channel nigelvh
[18:42] <jonsowman> (don't really)
[18:42] <nigelvh> blah blah blah mr top kicker
[18:43] <jonsowman> i think i'm on there for kicking the bots out once
[18:43] <jonsowman> >.>
[18:43] <fsphil-laptop> speaking of cats, I better walk the dog
[18:44] <nigelvh> Well, you can at least put that on your resume
[18:44] <nigelvh> Top kicker on the highaltitude IRC channel
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[18:45] <eroomde> i think ive only kicked twice
[18:45] <eroomde> once me
[18:45] <eroomde> once smea
[18:45] <Randomskk> eroomde: in 2012 you averaged 7.48 words per line
[18:46] <nigelvh> There should be a stat for most uses of "XD"
[18:46] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[18:46] <nigelvh> Lunar would feel special
[18:46] <daveake> A runaway winner
[18:46] <nigelvh> Or perhaps BTTF
[18:47] <Randomskk> eroomde: so 10 wasn't that far off
[18:47] <eroomde> Randomskk: in 2006 or 7?
[18:48] <Randomskk> looks like you barely spoke in 07
[18:48] <Randomskk> unless you were not "edmoore" at that point
[18:48] <Randomskk> 2008 has 7 words per lin average
[18:49] <Randomskk> but more lines
[18:49] <Randomskk> well, this year isn't done yet
[18:49] <eroomde> ok
[18:49] <jcoxon> i think i might launch next week
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[18:49] <Laurenceb_> 32
[18:49] <eroomde> so 7 then
[18:49] <Randomskk> ish yea
[18:49] <eroomde> so about 400,000 words
[18:49] <eroomde> still
[18:50] <nigelvh> Only 400,000 words, pshaw.
[18:50] <Randomskk> not quite war and peace
[18:50] <Randomskk> but close
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> i think you have to devide by the timeperiod for it to be fair
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> *divide
[18:50] <Randomskk> not even that close actually :P
[18:50] <fsphil-laptop> disagreement and tolerance
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> in which case im no longer the biggest looser
[18:50] <nigelvh> I want to know where the hitchhikers's guide trilogy of five books comes in with word count.
[18:52] <Randomskk> eroomde: actually though
[18:52] <Randomskk> I can just count every word
[18:52] <Randomskk> it comes to 599305 words
[18:52] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: i think you might win for consecutive posts
[18:52] <Randomskk> which just edges out war and peace
[18:52] <eroomde> back when you would fly off on technical flights of fancy
[18:52] <cuddykid> if I've never wrote to eeprom before, will any address be fine to write to?
[18:53] <eroomde> fergus and i posited there should be some kind of metric like a monologue coefficient
[18:53] <eroomde> that you would win :)
[18:53] <Randomskk> eroomde: it's on the stats
[18:53] <Randomskk> LaurenceB talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 1091 times!
[18:53] <nigelvh> cuddykid: on an arduino (like system)?
[18:53] <eroomde> ah wow
[18:53] <Randomskk> incidentally Another lonely one was Randomskk, who managed to hit 538 times.
[18:53] <cuddykid> nigelvh: arduino yup (atmega328)
[18:54] <nigelvh> Yeah, any of them should be fine.
[18:54] <cuddykid> brilliant :D
[18:54] <Randomskk> eroomde: wait, sorry, typo with my sed pattern, you actually have 472449 words
[18:54] <DanielRichman> I think we can teach pisg people's aliases so that it groups them all under one nickname... though that may not be worth the effort
[18:54] <Randomskk> so still a good 100k less than war and peace
[18:55] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: it has an option to track renames
[18:55] <Randomskk> and nick changes
[18:55] <Randomskk> however....
[18:55] <DanielRichman> ooh it does it automatically :P
[18:55] <DanielRichman> yeah I can see the obvious problem with switching that on
[18:55] <Randomskk> that totally messes up when once in the last six years someone named themselves someone else for ten minutes as a joke
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[18:55] <nigelvh> What? Who would ever do that?
[18:55] <Randomskk> eroomde: while I'm only at 322986 words :P
[18:55] Action: nigelvh glances around nervously
[18:55] <Randomskk> dinner time bbl
[18:57] <eroomde> i should write a boo,
[18:57] <eroomde> book
[18:57] <eroomde> elements of ballooning
[18:57] <nigelvh> You already have. Just copy all the junk you've written here and print it out.
[18:58] <x-f> you said that half a year ago :)
[18:58] <eroomde> would make no sense
[18:58] <eroomde> plus huge repetition
[18:58] <nigelvh> Books are supposed to make sense?
[18:59] <cuddykid> hmm& apparently EEPROM has ~100,000 write/erase cycles, maybe it's only best to engage this logging mechanism over ~20km?
[18:59] <eroomde> hopefully more than te collected ramblines of eroomde/edmoore/gerontius/hornblower/m0tek
[18:59] <nigelvh> Each cell in the eeprom has 100,000 cycles
[19:00] <nigelvh> Your payload will be lost and dead long before you burn it out of cycles.
[19:00] <eroomde> but in a general sense eeprom is designed for less frequenct use
[19:00] <eroomde> so for example tou have a temperature data logger
[19:00] <nigelvh> Yes, when compared to other methods.
[19:00] <eroomde> the eeprom would store caliration coefficients for each sensor
[19:00] <cuddykid> yeah
[19:00] <eroomde> which are sort of write once read lots
[19:00] <nigelvh> Also the EEPROM isn't very big
[19:01] <nigelvh> cant log much in there.
[19:01] <cuddykid> I just want to avoid an SD card and all that rubbish just to log the highest recorded altitude :P
[19:01] <eroomde> r the eeprom could be a unique device id
[19:01] <nigelvh> Are you designing a board?
[19:01] <eroomde> were looking at putting uniwue id chips in all our pressure sensors and load cells
[19:01] <nigelvh> Just throw on a small flash chip. Much better than a SD card in terms of ease.
[19:01] <cuddykid> nigelvh: no, just integrating it in the code for my pico payload
[19:02] <eroomde> so you can plug in a rig any which way and all the channels get labelled and stored correctly
[19:02] <cuddykid> minimising weight
[19:02] <r2x0t> you can cache max altitude together with position in ram, then flush it every hour to EEPROM
[19:02] <nigelvh> exactly
[19:02] <eroomde> you could store the highest alt just in ram
[19:02] <eroomde> and send it in your string
[19:02] <cuddykid> ahh
[19:03] <r2x0t> also you can add slow eeprom reading in tlm
[19:03] <r2x0t> like 4 bytes/frame
[19:03] <cuddykid> and ram retains contents through reboots etc?
[19:03] <nigelvh> No
[19:03] <r2x0t> so it sends entire history over time
[19:03] <eroomde> no
[19:03] <eroomde> if you want permenance then use, eeprom
[19:03] <cuddykid> ok
[19:03] <cuddykid> hm
[19:03] <nigelvh> That's why r2x0t mentioned saving it once in a while
[19:03] <cuddykid> yep
[19:04] <nigelvh> Still get value saved, but reduces write cycles
[19:04] <r2x0t> if you save say 10bytes every hour, it's just 1680 bytes for entier week of data
[19:04] <r2x0t> you can probably save it even more often
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[19:05] <r2x0t> having next save pointer in eeprom + area where to write history
[19:05] <nigelvh> You can save as often as you like (short of the write time of the eeprom, which is relatively long)
[19:06] <nigelvh> Generally I like to set the first byte or two of the eeprom as a location store. Then even through a reboot, you don't have to scan for the last used byte.
[19:06] <r2x0t> yes, that's good
[19:06] <cuddykid> good idea
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[19:08] <eroomde> as long as you dont reboot between what needs to be an atomic write to epprom :)
[19:08] <domlin> ooda55: when you launching your balloon?
[19:09] <ooda55> domlin, as soon as helium funding prevails
[19:09] <r2x0t> if reboot happens just in the write, it may only end in two possible results: one corrupted error (pointer increased, data not written) or overwritting one entry (data written, pointer not updated)
[19:10] <r2x0t> both is OK, but it's good to store not just alt, but also timestamp for this reason
[19:10] <nigelvh> Yes, you'll lose one data point
[19:11] <jcoxon> ooda55, where are you planning to launch from?
[19:12] <daveake> Well there I was feeling excite that Arduino V1 now has a serialEvent() function which gets called when there's serial data available ...
[19:12] <daveake> .... but it's only called between calls to loop(). So it's not adding anything at all.
[19:12] <ooda55> jcoxon cambridge seems like the best place
[19:13] <jcoxon> cool
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[19:13] <eroomde> this is what still puts me off a bit with arduino
[19:14] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host-78-150-209-59.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:14] <eroomde> if you just jump a lsyer down to c + datasheet there are no surprises
[19:14] <eroomde> well, very few anywa
[19:14] <eroomde> everything is just more dumb
[19:14] <DanielRichman> the arduino libraries and functions and stuff trade quite a lot of 'ability to do cool stuff' for ease of use
[19:15] <r2x0t> arduino is made to be simple, for people who never programmed uC before
[19:15] <eroomde> yes this is all quite apparent
[19:16] <DanielRichman> daveake: the function you seek is called something like ISR(USART0_DRE_vect) {} and does what you want, but I don't think you can use that at the same time as having the arduino serial stuff compiled in
[19:16] <eroomde> but it doesnt take much before you find yourself bumping your head against the ceiling
[19:16] <DanielRichman> uh, not DRE, RXC
[19:16] <r2x0t> yes, using interrupt is only way how to do that
[19:16] <DanielRichman> details >_>
[19:16] <eroomde> heh you remember at least
[19:17] <nigelvh> YAY ISRs!
[19:17] <daveake> Yeah, and I've done that stuff before on PIC and other stuff, but for a moment I thought Arduino had added the
[19:17] <daveake> edit error ^
[19:17] <daveake> added the ability to get at the serial interrupt without getting dirty
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[19:17] <daveake> np just disappointed
[19:18] <nigelvh> I don't really have anything that comes through fast enough it won't stay in the buffer, so I don't mind.
[19:19] <DanielRichman> I think if you wanted to rewrite just one part of your flight computer with interrupts the best one would be RTTY. With that out of the way, you can do so much more in loop() like logging 1hz data to sd cards, etc.
[19:19] <daveake> Yeah, pretty much the first thing I did!
[19:20] <r2x0t> proper way how to do RTTY, at least with RFM22b is using FIFO registers
[19:20] <r2x0t> and "fifo too empty" interrupt to signal you to fill it
[19:20] <daveake> later ... I'm being fed for a change :)
[19:20] <UpuHome> ping number10
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[19:21] <number10> hi UpuHome
[19:23] <eroomde> r2x0t: agreed
[19:23] Nick change: Upu -> UpuWork
[19:23] <eroomde> same with rtty in general really, in sofware on the micro
[19:23] Nick change: UpuHome -> Upu
[19:23] <eroomde> just throw a string into a fifo and have some interrupt process deal with squiring it out
[19:24] <r2x0t> also quick hack to make RFM key slower than it normally does when using FIFO -> put 0xFF / 0x00 to FIFO, so you get 8x slower speed
[19:24] <r2x0t> so if you set it to 400Bd FSK, it will key 50Bd
[19:24] Action: fsphil-laptop raises ibrow
[19:25] <fsphil-laptop> sneaky
[19:26] <Randomskk> doesn't it send start and stop bits?
[19:26] <r2x0t> no
[19:26] <r2x0t> you can switch all framing off
[19:26] <Randomskk> okay
[19:26] <Randomskk> surely you can send as many bits per bit as you want then
[19:26] <r2x0t> just sends raw bytes as in FIFO
[19:26] <Randomskk> as your whole bytes are going to be 10/11 bits anyway with rtty start and stop
[19:26] <r2x0t> yes
[19:27] <r2x0t> and FIFO is 64bytes, that's a lot
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[19:31] <ooda55> Hi guys, does anyone know what antenna connection i need for a "realistic" 200 channel scanner?
[19:31] <nigelvh> Most scanners I've seen use BNC
[19:31] <nigelvh> Though I'm not making any promises.
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> do you have a picture of the antenna connection?
[19:32] <r2x0t> some use PL
[19:32] <ooda55> I will upload a pic now :)
[19:32] <r2x0t> and some really cheap and crappy scanners use autoradio connector like in your car
[19:36] <ooda55> Here we go.. :P
[19:37] <domlin> the hilarious thing is, ooda55 just said to me on Skype: "oh dom its like one from a car radio antenna"
[19:38] <ooda55> http://www.flickr.com/photos/68579973@N02/6902559756/
[19:38] <nigelvh> yep
[19:38] <nigelvh> car radio
[19:38] <Randomskk> ew yup
[19:38] <nigelvh> Bet you could replace it though
[19:38] <ooda55> Thats what you get for £15
[19:39] <Randomskk> £15? wow
[19:39] <fsphil-laptop> nice
[19:39] <fsphil-laptop> realistic is a funny name
[19:39] <ooda55> Think its worth replacing? the radio probably isnt up to too much but i could not afford any of the nice looking HAMS
[19:39] <nigelvh> Better brand name would be "fake"
[19:39] <fsphil-laptop> fony
[19:39] <fsphil-laptop> or pretendo
[19:39] <Randomskk> ooda55: worth trying though
[19:39] <Randomskk> it might work
[19:39] <nigelvh> imitation
[19:40] <Randomskk> well
[19:40] <Randomskk> worth trying even without swapping out the antenna socket
[19:40] <fsphil-laptop> phillips
[19:40] <ooda55> Okay, i will grab a car connector off ebay and set up a yagi to do some tests with
[19:41] <ooda55> do the connectors have a proper name?
[19:41] <fsphil-laptop> or visit a local scrapheap if you've got one
[19:41] <nigelvh> I've never known one.
[19:41] <fsphil-laptop> radioworld list them as the CRAP connector
[19:41] <nigelvh> HAHA
[19:41] <fsphil-laptop> "car radio aerial plug"
[19:42] <fsphil-laptop> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/car_radio_aerial_plug-p-6070.html
[19:42] <ooda55> Lmao
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[19:44] <ooda55> Lets see if craplin have any
[19:45] <domlin> just open it up and solder it straight on
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[20:00] <pjm__> ooda55 the proper name is the 'motorola connector' but yes they are c**p
[20:01] <DanielRichman> !
[20:01] <DanielRichman> uh, wrong window
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[20:03] <domlin> guys, whats the best way to get into ham things?
[20:04] <domlin> im a student so low budget is key :P
[20:04] <nigelvh> Find a local group
[20:04] <Randomskk> yea
[20:04] <Randomskk> quite possibly at your university
[20:04] <Randomskk> (if you're a uni student)
[20:04] <nigelvh> Most of the time someone in the group will have some old junk they'll be willing to give to a good home
[20:04] <Randomskk> they'll have kit you can probably play with and maybe borrow, and can probably help you get started on th exams
[20:04] <domlin> I know theres a group near me, unfortunately im not in uni im in my last year of college
[20:05] <nigelvh> Don't worry about being in uni.
[20:05] <Randomskk> yea, I only said that as many unis happen to have clubs
[20:05] <nigelvh> Most groups are very welcoming of newcomers
[20:06] <domlin> ah good :)
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[20:09] <nigelvh> Keep in mind that there are many aspects to ham radio. Some people like to build their own gear, some people like to chit chat all the time, some people like to talk to far away places, some people like the emergency communications aspects. So you'll likely run into a variety of people and interests
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> yea they're a pretty diverse bunch
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[20:10] <Randomskk> albeit not demographically
[20:11] <Randomskk> I just realised I don't know a single woman with a ham license, actually.
[20:11] <nigelvh> I know several
[20:11] <nigelvh> Though they are far outnumbered.
[20:11] <Randomskk> yea, I don't know all that many hams.
[20:12] <fsphil-laptop> I know 1, but only met through the club. never heard on air
[20:12] <nigelvh> Yeah, we've got a few on the air fairly regularly. Then again I'm in a big city.
[20:16] <number10> are most of them married Randomskk ?
[20:16] <Randomskk> me?
[20:17] <Randomskk> well I mean obviously you said Randomskk but I said I don't know any woman hams
[20:17] <number10> single women hams ;)
[20:17] <Randomskk> I wonder what the breakdown looks like
[20:18] <number10> my poor attempt at a joke as you said "I don't know a single woman with a ham license"
[20:18] <Upu> you know those really small numbers
[20:18] <nigelvh> I think I know one single woman ham. The rest are married.
[20:18] <Randomskk> number10: aaah
[20:18] <Randomskk> haha
[20:18] <Randomskk> sorry, whooosh
[20:18] <number10> sory
[20:18] <number10> +r
[20:19] <number10> there was one girl student taking advanced at CUWS last month
[20:19] <Randomskk> huh.
[20:19] <Randomskk> incidentally I should maybe go to at least one cuws thing maybe
[20:20] <Randomskk> I did all three licenses in a couple of weeks in my first term of my first year
[20:20] <Randomskk> and nothing since...
[20:20] <number10> I have done same, but obviously not a student at CU
[20:21] <Randomskk> this is fun http://www.nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap
[20:21] <Upu> got the local club to run the next exam
[20:21] <number10> thts great news Upu
[20:21] <Upu> need to do some study now :)
[20:22] <Randomskk> pft, just flick through the advanced book before the test :P
[20:22] <Randomskk> it's all multiple choice anyway
[20:22] <Randomskk> "your radio has a 50 ohm output plug. what impedance cable should you use? a) 5 ohm b) 50 ohm c) 75 ohm d) 300 ohm"
[20:23] <daveake> Select your facial hair: a) none, b) moustache, c) full beard
[20:23] <Randomskk> actually there was a really contentious one on mine about what you should do when someone electrocutes themselves, namely call an ambulance first or something else -- turn off the electricity perhaps -- first
[20:23] <Randomskk> daveake: :D
[20:25] <nigelvh> If you're building a tower, how far away from power lines should it be?
[20:25] <nigelvh> Far enough that if it falls over it won't hit them.
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[20:27] <number10> have you decided what date for the exam Upu?
[20:28] <Upu> 31st May
[20:30] <fsphil-laptop> reminded me to email the club here and see when they're doing it
[20:31] <Upu> well I mailed the list and someone else said they wanted to do it
[20:31] <Upu> so 2 of us is worth opening up for
[20:32] <number10> its worth reading section 2 of the licence
[20:34] <Upu> I know I shouldn't have to ask this but where is the full text of the license ?
[20:35] <Randomskk> buried under like a million links on ofcom's site
[20:35] <Upu> yeah trying to find it
[20:35] <Randomskk> here's my copy
[20:36] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/amateur-terms.pdf
[20:36] <nigelvh> Do you have an equivalent of the ARRL? Most often they have a link to it.
[20:36] <number10> if you log in to the ofcom site there is link there
[20:36] <Upu> thanks
[20:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu going for a higher licens?
[20:36] <Upu> yeah the full one
[20:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok great, best of luck
[20:36] <Upu> thanks :)
[20:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> is the cw test also gone in the uk ?
[20:37] <Upu> yes
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> oh yea
[20:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok same here
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> although I'd still like to learn it
[20:37] <Upu> you have to "encode" some letters using a chart
[20:37] <Upu> and decode someone but you can write it down
[20:37] <Upu> my brain can't do CW
[20:38] <number10> this is schedule 2 https://services.ofcom.org.uk/amateur-terms.pdf dont know if latest
[20:38] <Upu> I just can't tell the difference between dots and dashes for some reason
[20:38] <fsphil-laptop> I only know the CW for "SMS" after having a nokia phone for years
[20:38] <Upu> got it thx number10
[20:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> Good luck Upu with the exam!
[20:39] <Elmar_PD3EM> and Good evening all ;-)
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> g'day Elmar :)
[20:39] <number10> note magic numbers like on the last page - Beacons may operate with a maximum power level of 25 W e.r.p. pep.
[20:39] <Upu> cheers Elmar
[20:40] <Upu> ok
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[20:40] <Elmar_PD3EM> any new launch preparations?
[20:41] <Upu> just a pico on the 8th I think
[20:42] <Elmar_PD3EM> o.k. the weather will be better to stay in the shack this weekend ;-)
[20:43] <Elmar_PD3EM> and struggle with some arduino code....
[20:46] <Elmar_PD3EM> BTW, I just got an Parallax MS5607 pressure/temp sensor
[20:49] <ooda55> Elmar_PD3EM just googled it and found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDvbaqSvE_E
[20:50] <Elmar_PD3EM> lol this is better ;-) http://www.parallax.com/tabid/768/ProductID/780/Default.aspx
[20:51] <domlin> ill buy 10000
[20:51] <ooda55> good shout domlin
[20:51] <ooda55> as long as the woman comes with it
[20:52] <Elmar_PD3EM> you should get a discount....
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[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:14] <ooda55> Hey lunar
[21:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> Hi LL
[21:14] <nigelvh> Yo
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello people
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> can I ask you
[21:14] <nigelvh> You just said hello
[21:14] <nigelvh> no
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[21:14] <nigelvh> you may not
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> do you know the INES scale of nuclear incident severity?
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:15] <nigelvh> Like know the data, or am aware of it?
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, that it goes from 0 to 7 and so on
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> the awareness
[21:15] <nigelvh> Yes, I am aware of it.
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> did you know that it happened that there was a level 5 accident without a nuclear power station involved?
[21:16] <nigelvh> I was not aware of that.
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[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> that happened in central brazil, 1987
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> when two men stole a irradiation device from the partly demolished rooms of a nuclear medicine office
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> they tried to open the innards of it and later gave it to a junk dealer
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> in the process of breaking the capsule open, radioactivity spread over the town
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> a tragic effect was that the junk dealer noticed that the substance glowed blue in the dark
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> he thought it was "very valuable or even supernatural"
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> thus he wanted to make jewellery for his wife out of it
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> the two workers of him who tried to extract the substance later died
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> as well as his wife and the daughter of his brother
[21:19] <nigelvh> That is unfortunate, but kinda what happens when you mess with that.
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> I think it shows that education is important as well
[21:19] <nigelvh> Yes
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[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> as the junk dealer thought it was supernatural
[21:20] <nigelvh> Also, that would have been a more interesting story as told by futurama, and a nuclear powered stripper robot.
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:20] <nigelvh> Then again, life isn't like futurama.
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> actually the whole thing was discovered when the wife brought the parts to the local health office
[21:20] <nigelvh> .... not yet.
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> a friend was carrying the bag in the bus and then on his shoulder
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> his shoulder later was covered with a radiation burn
[21:21] <nigelvh> It is nasty stuff.
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> the source was placed on a chair outside by the doctor
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> later it was sarcophaged by lifting a concrete tube over the chair and filling it with concrete
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[21:22] <nigelvh> Lead would be a better choice, though I suppose concrete was probably easier to get.
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah forgot that almost, when the source was brought to the doctor, he called a local physicist and the fire brigade
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> the physicist got there with a measuring device just in time to prevent the fire brigade from throwing the parts into the river
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:23] <nigelvh> Radiation and rivers don't go well together.
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> the river was surveillanced later
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> as one of the junkyards involved was right besides it
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> but no dangerous levels of radiation were in the water
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> on the yards, as well as the home of one of the thieves, buildings had to be demolished and the topsoil removed
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> that was a quite difficult process
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> but they made it in 3 months
[21:27] <nigelvh> This must have been a rather large medical source.
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, some TBq of activity
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> the final report by IAEA says it has no serial number but it was probably made in Oak Ridge
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> and that it was made of cesium chloride helped it spread
[21:28] <BrainDamage> are you talking about the gojana accident?
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> the report refers to an accident in mexico, where Cobalt-60 was exposed and which is a metal and consequences were much less severe
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:33] <russss> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident
[21:33] <russss> :)
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> when the daughter of the brother of the junkdealer died, she was put into a fibreglass coffin lined with lead
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> but 2000 people came to the cemetery to try to prevent the funeral
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> they were afraid that it could again contaminate the town
[21:34] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[21:35] <BrainDamage> from what? it's not contagious
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, but I think that was education again
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> just as the junkdealer thought the crystals are supernatural, the other people probably didn't know of how lead shields radiation
[21:36] <BrainDamage> I'd argue plastic would've sufficed
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:37] <russss> well it was a gamma source
[21:37] <russss> and the problem was that they smashed it up into a pretty blue powder
[21:37] <russss> so it got spread around a lot
[21:38] <BrainDamage> I mean for the coffin
[21:38] <russss> ah yeah, well
[21:38] <BrainDamage> all it has to be is sealed so any eventual radioactive leftover dust doesn't go around
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:38] <russss> "A thousand persons were identified as having suffered a dose which was greater than one year of background radiation"
[21:38] <russss> very messy
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:38] <BrainDamage> if some decays and you get while moving around, then welp
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[21:41] <BrainDamage> ( it's not like lead is magic and completely shields either, I forgot the absorption length of typical gamma )
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> and according to wikipedia, the same stuff happened in Thailand in 2000
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> again a junkyard and again medical equipment
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> dang, only a german article on wikipedia
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
[21:42] <russss> there was that case where a source got accidentally melted down into structural steel
[21:42] <russss> and built into a load of buildings
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, I read that in the INES 2008 paper
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:43] <BrainDamage> there's tons of similar "accidents"
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> the one in Brazil maybe was the most severe and thus classed as INES 5
[21:43] <BrainDamage> gladfully it's very diluited, otherwise I'd suspect most steel in the UE is midly radioactive :p
[21:44] <BrainDamage> recycled steel ofc
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> but
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> the accident in thailand caused IAEO to develop a new warning sign hoped to be more comprehensive
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuklearunfall_von_Samut_Prakan#Konsequenzen_auf_internationaler_Ebene
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> the one to the right
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[21:56] <fsphil-laptop> ooh sparkfun making a find-me-spot interface for arduino boards
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> I learned that some people created a arduino shaped board for PIC
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[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> so if it can support custom messages, then it might be more useful than hacking the coordinates
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> wonder if it's more expensive
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[22:09] <fsphil-laptop> spot don't seem to be to forthcoming with their pricing structure, unless I'm missing the obvious
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
[22:11] <fsphil-laptop> only one-way, so the delorme one is better for controlling like whitestar are doing
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[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> how does one program a PIC?
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> I'll give you two guesses :)
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> a command line program such as avrdude is for Atmel?
[22:32] <fsphil-laptop> ah, thought you meant hardware
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, I was wondering because I was shown Picduino or so
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> which is an arduino shaped PIC chip
[22:33] <fsphil-laptop> not actually sure. the program I used ages ago was pretty simple
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> and I think there isn't a window GUI like arduino has
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> I mean a window in which you type your program
[22:33] <fsphil-laptop> an IDE
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> that I meant
[22:39] <r2x0t> there is official MPLAB ide, or if you prefer linux Piklab/Pikdev
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[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> and is the programming language C?
[22:39] <r2x0t> all these are complete IDE applications, when set up properly, it's similar to using arduino
[22:39] <r2x0t> yes, C
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah OK
[22:40] <r2x0t> well, sometimes it depends on compiler you switch/download
[22:40] <r2x0t> I have only used MPLAB and it compiled C
[22:40] <fsphil-laptop> at the time I used assembly
[22:41] <fsphil-laptop> which is fun but difficult to get stuff done in
[22:41] <r2x0t> I used both, depending on how critical the code was and how constrained I was
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[22:42] <r2x0t> it's same as on any other platform... some stuff is easier to write properly in ASM
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:42] <r2x0t> while other is just waste of time, unless you really want to :)
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> so PIC could be as easy to understand as arduino?
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> or wait
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> that is a crap question
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> http://mikeos.berlios.de/ :)
[22:42] <r2x0t> pretty much
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> as a Atmel Atmega could be difficult too if on its own
[22:43] <r2x0t> you can set up MPLAB to be really simple to use
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> I just think about setting fuses and so on (which I once overheard)
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> thanks you two :)
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[22:43] <r2x0t> leave fuses and stuff at defaults and you are done
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[22:43] <r2x0t> maybe change clock or something depending on board
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:44] <r2x0t> but this is really not hard, proper code uses defines to get clock rate
[22:44] <r2x0t> so you don't have to make any changes in it if you use different xtal
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea thanks for the clarification
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:49] <r2x0t> this may be good for you: http://www.pic18f.com/18f4550-c-tutorial/2009/11/16/tutorial-4-hello-world-program-in-c/
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[23:19] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Globalstar? (And ADS-B)"
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[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> do you also have it when you click on UKHAS "Mailing List" that you get the login site for google?
[23:31] <fsphil-laptop> it's a google group
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[23:32] <fsphil-laptop> if you've got a google account they'll ask you to login
[23:34] <r2x0t> but you can view it without logging in
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> well that I was able to
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> but now I can't view without login
[23:36] <fsphil-laptop> I was never able to view without logging in, which is very annoying
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[23:42] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] Globalstar? (And ADS-B)"
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[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> btw because of the incident in thailand where nobody understood the trifoil symbol
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> or was able to understand the printed warnings
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> a new radioactivity danger sign was proposed: https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Logo_iso_radiation.svg&filetimestamp=20070225194748
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 6 2012