highaltitude.log.20120404

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[00:00] <BrainDamage> this? http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfz44n.pdf
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[00:01] <Lunar_Lander> I look at page 2
[00:01] <BrainDamage> I just told you, Vgsth is the min voltage it's on, it's not when it's full on
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:02] <BrainDamage> the voltage you're interested in is this:
[00:02] <BrainDamage> RDS(on)Static Drain-to-Source On-Resistance   17.5 m&VGS = 10V, ID = 25A
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> I can see page 3, figure 3
[00:02] <BrainDamage> 10V
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:03] <BrainDamage> for example, look at page 3, figure 1
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> on Fig. 3 they plot VGS versus ID
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> can see it
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> it starts at 4.5V
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[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> 3.3V would be even below the lowest curve, right?
[00:05] <BrainDamage> yes
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> now I see it all
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:06] <BrainDamage> you want to put the mosfet in the region where it's almost flat
[00:06] <BrainDamage> how much is your cutdown resistance?
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander> well we didn't determine that yet, it will be a piece of constantan wire
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> can I show you the mosfet that sparkfun has?
[00:08] <BrainDamage> sure
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10213
[00:10] <BrainDamage> see page 4
[00:10] <BrainDamage> sigure 7
[00:10] <BrainDamage> altough that's saturation :/
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> what about figure 4
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> page 3
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> that seems to be the same as figure 1 from the other one
[00:12] <BrainDamage> no?
[00:12] <BrainDamage> are we looking at the same pdf? i am using
[00:12] <BrainDamage> https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/General/RFP30N06LE.pdf
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> well the X-Axis has VGS
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[00:12] <BrainDamage> and http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfz44n.pdf
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> I misread
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> now I see figure 7
[00:14] <BrainDamage> if you notice, the max current there is much more limited
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> 20 A for VGS=3 V
[00:15] <BrainDamage> this also means the resistance it makes is higher
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[00:15] <BrainDamage> assuming it's in ohmic, I suspect you'll get it in quadratic :s
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhh
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[01:01] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] ADS-B"
[01:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Henry Hallam "Re: [UKHAS] ADS-B"
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[01:40] <Lunar_Lander> schofieldau, how are you?
[01:41] <Darkside> hey shenki
[01:41] <Darkside> schofieldau: *
[01:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi Darkside
[01:59] <Darkside> hi
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[02:34] <schofieldau> hey lunar - at school
[02:34] <schofieldau> I'm good. Waiting to find a time to pick up a radio then I can get properly started on programming
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[02:45] <schofieldau> http://image.minoc.com/zd_images/2012/03/megacar.png
[02:45] <schofieldau> wouldn't mind this for a chase car
[02:46] <schofieldau> it belongs to Kim Dotcom (megaupload founder)
[02:46] <schofieldau> it has sixteen independent GSM connections for 3G internet
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[03:19] <heathkid> Lunar_Lander: we got the new seals for our high altitude chamber...
[03:19] <heathkid> I can test any gear up to 100k feet
[03:19] <heathkid> best I can do... sorry....
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[04:05] <heathkid> what payload would you like me to test at 100k feet?
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[05:39] <Upu> fook we have like 5 " of snow :/
[05:40] <Darkside> lol
[05:40] <Darkside> lucky
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[05:53] <Upu> not really have alot of stuff I need to do today none of which involves sitting behind morons who can't drive in the snow for 2 hours
[05:54] <Darkside> Upu: i've never seen snow fall
[05:54] <Darkside> i've only seen real snow once
[05:54] <Upu> its like white and cold
[05:55] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/ukhastv/
[05:56] <Upu> when it snows in Australia you know the environment is broken
[05:56] <Darkside> am i meant to be seeing something on that page?
[05:57] <Upu> I have no idea why they doesn't work for some people www.batc.tv -> Member Streams -> 2E0UPU
[05:57] <Darkside> hey
[05:57] <Darkside> snow
[05:57] <Darkside> awesome
[05:58] <Darkside> ok back to work..
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[06:10] <Upu> I thought I'd listen in on the local repeater to see if there was any useful information about the snow but they are talking about gas cylinders in caravans at the moment
[06:10] <jcoxon> morning all
[06:10] <jcoxon> i think we need to make some changes to spacenear.us
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[06:10] <jcoxon> to cope with all the new chase cars
[06:11] <Upu> morning
[06:11] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
[06:11] <Upu> shouldn't be too many on there at any one time
[06:12] <jcoxon> i wss thinking - no need for them to be on the rightside in boxes
[06:12] <Upu> this is very true
[06:13] <Upu> though sometimes its nice to be able to get the path on
[06:13] <daveake> It is. Maybe a check box to show/not show them?
[06:13] <jcoxon> could be intergrated into the bubble when you click on the car
[06:13] <daveake> Just that sometimes the cars will be on top of each other
[06:14] <daveake> Suppose with enough zooming they should separate
[06:14] <Upu> well it was nice to see all the walking we did :)
[06:15] <daveake> :-) Yeah we need a little man icon
[06:15] <Darkside> what woudl be useful is if you could get car positions from APRS too
[06:15] <Darkside> as we always have APRS running in our cars
[06:16] <Upu> well as the swift board is basically an APRS transmitter I suspect so will we soon
[06:16] <Darkside> cool
[06:16] <jcoxon> i've got a script to grab off the aprs network and upload
[06:16] <Upu> Swift with no sensors ot NTX2 = APRS
[06:17] <Upu> ot=or
[06:17] <Darkside> Upu: it won't get intot eh aprs network very well at ground level
[06:17] <Darkside> i've tried that before
[06:17] <Darkside> you need more than 300mW to get into teh aprs network from a car
[06:17] <Upu> if you put a car antenna on it should be fine at full power
[06:17] <Darkside> this was with an external antenna
[06:17] <Upu> external
[06:17] <Darkside> it gets clobbered by everything else
[06:18] <Upu> have to put an amp on it then :)
[06:18] <Darkside> you need about 5W
[06:18] <Darkside> yah
[06:18] <Darkside> i use my Kenwood TH-D72 for aprs..
[06:18] <Darkside> but they cost $650...
[06:19] <Upu> sure we could make a small amp
[06:20] <Darkside> if you pad the output of the HX1 you could feed it into a mitsubishi gain block
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[06:26] <jcoxon> haha
[06:26] <jcoxon> look at this
[06:26] <jcoxon> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a5dca262d60321db8b1325c52ebd5905facabfea
[06:26] <jcoxon> so its a prediction of ozzie float on sunday
[06:26] <jcoxon> but look at the track over spain
[06:26] <jcoxon> something has gone a bit wrong
[06:26] <Upu> yeah I've see it do that it goes all mandlebrot sometimes
[06:31] <Upu> So it needs an amp of at least 12dB and probably 15dB
[06:32] <SamSilver> Upu: looks like a tree on the right handside has fallen over http://ava.upuaut.net/ukhastv/
[06:32] <Upu> it has :)
[06:33] <Upu> not my car though
[06:33] <Upu> not the nice fluffy snow
[06:33] <Upu> its wet and heavy
[06:33] <SamSilver> sleet?
[06:33] <Upu> sort of
[06:34] <daveake> I know a tree I'd like to fall over
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[06:36] <SamSilver> oh it is comming down now
[06:36] <SamSilver> can see it hitting the window
[06:36] <Upu> yep
[06:39] <fsphil> sunny frosty morning 'ere
[06:40] <jcoxon> i've added some more info about ublox powersavings on the wiki if anyone is interested
[06:41] <daveake> cool
[06:45] <SamSilver> OT snow http://youtu.be/eRDp8ZNX1Zc
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[06:46] <daveake> That'll t-cut out
[06:53] <daveake> Scary stuff. I was once nearly blown off the road into a dtich in Sweden, and that was bad enough.
[06:54] <Upu> holy crap
[06:54] <Upu> lucky sod
[06:54] <SamSilver> there is a lurker by one of the cars near the tree
[06:55] <fsphil> more like rain there now Upu
[06:55] <UpuWork> it is turning but its dropped a hell of a lot over night
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[06:56] <number10> how much did you get UpuWork
[06:56] <UpuWork> and people are setting off and coming back
[06:56] <schofieldau> thinking I should probably set up and learn how to use IRSSI then run it in screen on my server
[06:56] <UpuWork> it was up to the back door round the back
[06:56] <Darkside> schofieldau: yes
[06:56] <Darkside> you should
[06:56] <UpuWork> 3" and way over that in drifts
[06:57] <number10> made a snowman yet?
[06:57] <daveake> Make a snowman and stick your phone in it. SnowmenNear.Us
[06:57] <schofieldau> haha it was 30?C in adelaide today
[06:58] <number10> morning daveake, what size memory card did you have in cloud stills camera?
[06:59] <daveake> 16GB
[06:59] <number10> did you use most of that?
[07:00] <daveake> Yes, slightly more than half
[07:00] <daveake> But 8GB is enough so long as you don't leave it running for too long before launch
[07:00] <number10> I may as well spend some more money
[07:01] <daveake> I don't like having pressure to get launched, hence the 16GB
[07:02] <number10> I havent got the canon 480 with me - is it SDHD?
[07:02] <daveake> SDHC? Yes
[07:03] <daveake> I flew the 490 as it's a bit lighter. Used the 480 to shoot the inflation.
[07:03] <number10> good show, seems to take reasonable picture
[07:03] <number10> s
[07:05] <daveake> Also, you could use an 8GB and increase the delay between shots slightly to give you more time
[07:06] <eroomde> excitement time at work! have written a program to auto throttle the rocket to tes out various scenarios in a 20s run
[07:06] <eroomde> unfort i have goddam holiday getting in the way from tomorrow
[07:06] <number10> well, the difference in price isnt very much... but I suppose I keep saying that and keep ordering extra stuff. lucky I have not remembered all I have spent so far
[07:09] <number10> given the choice of staying at work or taking a trip to france, I would have a different view
[07:10] <eroomde> but ROCKETS
[07:11] <number10> i suppose so ;)
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[07:13] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[07:13] <daveake> Aim ROCKET at France. Go to France. Sorted.
[07:15] <eroomde> it's bolted to the firing bay
[07:15] <daveake> Ah well.
[07:15] <daveake> What a fun job though!
[07:16] <Darkside> http://imgur.com/a/c07zl
[07:16] <Darkside> urgh
[07:16] <Darkside> finally done
[07:16] <Darkside> well, closer to done
[07:17] <Darkside> LC-SDR MKII
[07:17] <Darkside> now with more modularness
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[07:26] <fsphil> and more roman numericals
[07:26] <Darkside> :P
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[07:33] <eroomde> that'd be a good april fools
[07:33] <eroomde> svn version numbers now roman
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[07:34] <eroomde> regression test failed in MMMCLXXVI
[07:35] <Darkside> haha
[07:35] <UpuWork> :)
[07:35] <Darkside> well, now i need to get these PCBs manufactured
[07:37] <daveake> I see that they used duodecimal for fractions. Learn something new every day :-)
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[08:13] <schofieldau> so I'm looking for a job
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[08:15] <schofieldau> $8/hour at McDonalds sounds fun :P
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[09:10] <gonzo__> morning world
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[09:34] <F5MVO> hello all
[09:35] <eroomde> hello F5MVO
[09:36] <cuddykid> APM2 has been shipped! After 3 months...
[09:36] <cuddykid> not that I can use it ..
[09:37] <F5MVO> eroomde, hello , do you know how to plot at different time and day the way of balloon with CUSF ?
[09:38] <F5MVO> on the same map and same time ?
[09:40] <F5MVO> which could inform me on how to ?
[09:42] <F5MVO> i come back later, thanks
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[09:44] <Laurenceb> cuddykid: *cough* rogallo
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[09:53] <eroomde> whoops missed all that
[10:00] <eroomde> Randomskk: ping
[10:12] <schofieldau> somebody here might be interested in this
[10:12] <schofieldau> http://offers.dealextreme.com/team.php?id=1343
[10:12] <schofieldau> waterproof SD card
[10:14] <eroomde> they seem pretty waterproof anyway :)
[10:15] <eroomde> we've had payloads wash up after a couple of months in the sea and you can still get the pictures off the sd card
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[10:24] <cuddykid> anyone know roughly off the top of head how much a570 weighs?
[10:25] <eroomde> 250g
[10:25] <cuddykid> taa
[10:25] <eroomde> can get it down to 61g if feeling masochistic
[10:25] <cuddykid> I don't think I'll include it in my altitude attempt then :P
[10:25] <cuddykid> lol
[10:26] <eroomde> i think 100g would be an acceptible payload weight for a realistic altitude attempt
[10:26] <cuddykid> yep
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[10:27] Matt_soton (~Matt_soto@kryten.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[10:27] <daveake> Buzz2 was nearly 150g IIRC. Buzz4 was about 60g
[10:28] <eroomde> so you can indeed put a camera on it
[10:28] <cuddykid> currently I've just got the pro mini, rfm and ublox (with chip antenna) hooked up
[10:28] <daveake> The lighest Canon A-series cameras are around 125g, before any imposed diet
[10:29] <cuddykid> as I'm doing without SD card - an idea is to save the highest reported altitude into eeprom just incase telemetry drops out or something :P
[10:29] <eroomde> this is what i did to an A560
[10:29] <eroomde> http://www.cusf.co.uk/images/stripped_down_cam.jpg
[10:29] <daveake> Seems that the balloon itself is a much bigger factor than the weight underneath, but you might as well try and get the payload as light as you can
[10:29] <cuddykid> oh wow eroomde!
[10:29] <eroomde> it was about 59g down from 250ish
[10:29] <daveake> nice :)
[10:30] <cuddykid> doesn't look a happy camera!
[10:30] <daveake> they don't have feelings, you know
[10:32] <daveake> Just saw my Dropbox allowance shoot up :-)
[10:32] <daveake> They've doubled the referral amount from 250 to 500MB, including existing referrals
[10:32] <cuddykid> 2.8G here, using 61%
[10:33] <daveake> Ah mine's up to 6.2
[10:33] <cuddykid> nice!
[10:33] <daveake> You can get 16GB with enough referrals
[10:35] <eroomde> nice
[10:35] <cuddykid> anyone here good with obj C or iOS programming?
[10:35] <eroomde> teaser from yesterday: http://i.imgur.com/0XmsY.jpg
[10:38] Matt_soton (~Matt_soto@kryten.hexoc.com) got lost in the net-split.
[10:38] juxta (~rootkit@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) got lost in the net-split.
[10:39] <jonsowman> i'm on 29.1GB dropbox storage atm :P
[10:42] <daveake> yah boo sucks
[10:42] <daveake> :)
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[10:42] <Laurenceb> eroomde: some chamber erosion?
[10:43] <Laurenceb> i see sparks
[10:43] <eroomde> oh yes
[10:43] <eroomde> it's ablative
[10:43] <Laurenceb> oh
[10:43] <Laurenceb> nice
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[10:44] <Upu> ping navrac number10
[10:44] <eroomde> i smelt of burning phenolic all of yesterday
[10:46] <eroomde> it's an identical smell to electronics magic smoke
[10:46] <eroomde> so it really puts me on edge
[10:46] <Darkside> eroomde: what the hell do you do
[10:46] <eroomde> i start instinctively unplugging things from power supplies
[10:47] <eroomde> Darkside: rockets
[10:47] <Darkside> eroomde: you lucky bastard
[10:47] <Laurenceb> Tufnol?
[10:48] <eroomde> rick?
[10:49] <Laurenceb> the phenolic, custom or off the shelf tufnol type stuff?
[10:49] <eroomde> ots
[10:49] <Laurenceb> cool
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[10:50] <Laurenceb> i spent a while looking at ablatives for n-prize
[10:50] <eroomde> it's a spare time project, this biprop. it uses whatever's around
[10:50] <Laurenceb> ah
[10:50] <eroomde> and testing takes a back seat to customers
[10:50] <Laurenceb> for custom solid stuff using off the shelf reloads
[10:50] <Laurenceb> theres quite a few nasa papers it seems
[10:50] <eroomde> every time the phone rang yesterday we were like 'i god i hope that's not [customer] wanting to test tomorrow'
[10:50] <Laurenceb> with lots of test data
[10:50] <Laurenceb> heh
[10:51] <Laurenceb> it seemed to me that epoxy/silica ribbon was pretty good
[10:51] <eroomde> yeah we have lots of test data now too
[10:51] <eroomde> it's quite well instrumented
[10:51] <Laurenceb> -maybe as good as phenolic/glass fibre
[10:51] <eroomde> it'll become regen soon
[10:51] <eroomde> just not yet
[10:51] <Laurenceb> ok
[10:52] <eroomde> want to get something to take off, hover for 30s, and land
[10:52] <Laurenceb> that rather hard
[10:52] <Laurenceb> *thats
[10:54] <eroomde> yes
[10:54] <eroomde> so is building a biprop!
[10:54] <eroomde> but patience and appliance of science solve most problems
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[10:59] <Laurenceb> yeah impressive work
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[11:00] sjj (984e6147@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.78.97.71) joined #highaltitude.
[11:01] <sjj> Hello, i am after dl-fldigi anyone got a link ? (gidhub links are broken)
[11:01] <Upu> hi there
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[11:02] <jonsowman> sjj: for what platform?
[11:02] <Upu> https://github.com/downloads/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-3.20.29.r115.1.exe does work
[11:03] <sjj> strange i get an error...
[11:03] <UpuWork> what browser ?
[11:06] <sjj> IE :-P
[11:06] <Upu> should work
[11:06] <sjj> just tried another PC, same.
[11:06] <Upu> sec
[11:07] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/dl-fldigi-3.21.13-fsphil-github-20110908b_setup.exe
[11:07] <Upu> tryt hat
[11:07] <Upu> err
[11:07] <Upu> no not that
[11:07] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/dl-fldigi-3.20.29.r115.1.exe
[11:07] <Upu> that
[11:08] <BrainDamage> eroomde: nice shock diamonds, what's the exaust speed?
[11:08] <sjj> Erm , nope, -- ok it must be a network problem at my end. Thanks
[11:13] <Upu> try another browser
[11:13] <Upu> or better still just get win32 wget
[11:14] <Upu> http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/
[11:14] <Upu> then just wget https://github.com/downloads/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-3.20.29.r115.1.exe
[11:18] <eroomde> BrainDamage: no idea
[11:18] <eroomde> lots of data now to wade through
[11:19] <BrainDamage> well, at least you can guesstimate the nozzle pressure from the first shock diamond distance
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[11:20] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] ADS-B"
[11:22] <chris_99> anyone know if the SIRF IIe gps is any good for HAB
[11:22] <Upu> its not
[11:23] <chris_99> darn oh well, i saw you could get them really cheap
[11:23] <Upu> the Inventek SiRF III module with the high altitude firmware is ok
[11:23] <eroomde> BrainDamage: it'll be a bit over 200m/s though
[11:23] <Upu> actually let me check 1 sec
[11:23] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[11:23] <Upu> see known problem GPS
[11:24] <chris_99> ah yes, thanks
[11:24] <Upu> Also
[11:24] <Upu> http://www.arhab.org/ The Science -> GPS Pass/Fail
[11:25] <Upu> there are some SiRF II's in the fail pile
[11:25] <Upu> We now have solid evidence that GPS receivers based on SiRF-I and SiRF-II chip sets all fail at ~60kft. Some SiRF-III chips sets, receivers that use them and firmware work at high altitude ýbut- others do not.
[11:26] <eroomde> 2000m/s
[11:26] <chris_99> thanks for the heads up :)
[11:26] <eroomde> not 200m/s BrainDamage
[11:27] <BrainDamage> I was wondering, since afaik shock diamonds only appear with supersonic flow
[11:27] <chris_99> has anyone done any distance measurements with the NTX2 on the ground
[11:27] <BrainDamage> and not bad, congrats
[11:28] <Upu> I got 10 miles out of it from my house to Rob Harrisons but its line of sight
[11:28] <chris_99> oooh wow
[11:28] <Upu> in fact when he's testing I can receive his payload from here
[11:28] <chris_99> wow impressive
[11:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Russ Garrett "Re: [UKHAS] ADS-B"
[11:29] <chris_99> do you reckon it could go 2 miles over a hilly landscape possibly
[11:30] <Upu> no idea you'd have to try it
[11:31] <chris_99> yeah i will indeed, do you have any in your shop, as i'm going to need to order some soon
[11:31] <UpuWork> I do
[11:31] <number10> Upu did you ping?
[11:31] <UpuWork> order some 075 modules pls :)
[11:31] <UpuWork> hi there pm
[11:32] <chris_99> is there any difference, between 650 and 075 appart from the frequency
[11:33] <daveake> The 075 is better at stopping Audi keyfobs from working :)
[11:33] <UpuWork> yeah lol
[11:33] <chris_99> haha
[11:36] <UpuWork> ok food
[11:36] <eroomde> the wavelength is also different
[11:36] Nick change: eroomde -> MrHelpful
[11:37] <daveake> *** MrHelpful is now known as MrPedantic
[11:37] <daveake> :p
[11:38] <chris_99> lol very true MrHelpful
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[11:38] <Martin100_> Has something changed in the processing / updating of zeusbot logs? http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs/highaltitude.log.20120403 displays in a browser as do all the previous ones, but todays log forces a download
[11:40] <MrHelpful> will your browser natively display text files?
[11:40] <MrHelpful> 'today' has always been a raw textfile
[11:40] <MrHelpful> it doesn't get pretified until the following day
[11:41] <MrHelpful> so if you browser is happy with displaying raw text files in browser then it'll be fine, but some borswers, or some browser preferences, will assume you want to download rather than view in browser a non html file
[11:42] <Martin100_> If I not running an irc client I used to be able to just view any log file in a browser, even todays which ran a few minutes behind real time
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[11:42] <kokey> looks like rtl-sdr will work under vmware
[11:43] <MrHelpful> huzzah!
[11:43] <Martin100_> It's not just on one browser (tried on Chrome an Firefox) or even one machine
[11:43] <MrHelpful> i shall call bbc news
[11:44] <MrHelpful> you're right Martin100_
[11:44] <MrHelpful> it's now downloading for me too
[11:44] <MrHelpful> maybe a config setting in the server changed
[11:44] <kokey> I guess the content-type is different for some reason
[11:44] <kokey> perhaps it contains a character that makes the server think it's not plain text
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[11:47] <Martin100_> Looking at the text file there are a series of "DC3" control characters at 00:02, maybe??
[11:49] <daveake> A friend's young son is collecting Apollo and Space Shuttle mission badges, so I "borrowed" one to send up stuck to the side of Cloud4 on Saturday. I've done him a certificate too - http://imgur.com/76nik. I'm such a softy :)
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[11:56] <MrHelpful> DASA
[11:56] <MrHelpful> good lord
[11:56] Nick change: MrHelpful -> eroomde
[11:56] <daveake> Not my doing :)
[11:56] <daveake> His dad did that one!
[12:02] <sjj> Hello, anyone on here using the NXT2 Radiometrix for RTTY transmission?
[12:03] <daveake> Almost everyone
[12:04] <sjj> cool... any tips on where to start writing the transmission encoder (so that fldigi can decode it?)
[12:05] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
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[12:10] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
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[12:12] <sjj> thaks davake
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[12:24] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] ADS-B"
[12:26] <WillDuckworth> hey eroomde - what rocket stuff are you working on at the moment?
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[13:12] Nick change: Matt_soton_ -> Matt_soton
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[13:19] <Randomskk> eroomde: pong
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[13:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] ADS-B"
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[13:52] <nick_> Hi guys.
[13:52] <nick_> I've not made any real progress on my HAB plans, but I'm getting close to having a cosmic detector I might try to put under a balloon.
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[13:52] <nick_> Sorry: hi girls and guys.
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[13:55] <jonsowman> hi nick_
[13:59] <Upu> don't think the girl is here at the moment
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[14:01] <nick_> I'm trying to read out a cosmic ray detector with an mbed. Hopefully I will try to launch it at some point. If anyone's interested I have a google+ page about it.
[14:01] <BrainDamage> what are you using using as cosmic ray detector? double geiger counter? buried PIN diode?
[14:01] <nick_> Scintillator and a silicon photo multiplier.
[14:02] <nick_> Oof, coffee time.
[14:04] <Laurenceb> no girls on the internets
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[14:06] <Randomskk> no casual sexism on #highaltitude either please Laurenceb
[14:07] <Laurenceb> but its true
[14:07] <Randomskk> it's clearly not true that there are no girls on the internet
[14:07] <Laurenceb> rule30 dude
[14:08] <Laurenceb> http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/rule-30.jpg
[14:09] <Randomskk> :|
[14:09] <Randomskk> http://xkcd.com/322/
[14:10] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:10] <Laurenceb> sometimes weirdos think im a girl
[14:11] <Laurenceb> hilarity ensues
[14:16] <eroomde> Randomskk: pang
[14:16] <eroomde> was going to show you the screencap of the rngine firing
[14:16] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/0XmsY.jpg
[14:17] <eroomde> ca
[14:17] <Randomskk> :D
[14:17] <Randomskk> cool
[14:18] <eroomde> was about 200N thrust at that point
[14:19] <Randomskk> nice
[14:19] <Randomskk> have you seen the latest martlet pics? it's looking pretty good http://www.cusf.co.uk/2012/04/martlet-1-stage-3-motor-section-rings-bonded/
[14:19] <Laurenceb> whats the mass of the engine?
[14:19] <eroomde> yes it looks a beaut
[14:19] <eroomde> about 1.5kg laurenceb
[14:20] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:20] <eroomde> about 2.5 with all flight hardware and linear actuators for gimballing
[14:20] <eroomde> which is the next test
[14:20] <eroomde> the whole rocket wet will be about 22kg
[14:20] <Laurenceb> cool
[14:21] <Laurenceb> stage3 motor?!
[14:21] <Laurenceb> what the heck
[14:21] <Laurenceb> launching from a balloon?
[14:21] <eroomde> no
[14:21] <Randomskk> N-M-M and no
[14:21] <Laurenceb> i see
[14:21] <eroomde> both these rockets are for scotland in may
[14:21] <Laurenceb> ah, tha scottish launch site
[14:21] <Randomskk> 40kg odd wet
[14:21] <Randomskk> that'd be a fun balloon payload
[14:21] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:22] <Laurenceb> whats the predicted altitude?
[14:22] <Randomskk> but fins are too small for that anyway
[14:22] <Randomskk> circa 15km iirc
[14:22] <Laurenceb> a bit dissapointing
[14:22] <Laurenceb> needs baloon launch
[14:22] <Randomskk> yea :P
[14:22] <eroomde> dont we all
[14:22] <eroomde> right gtg
[14:22] <Randomskk> well as soon as we have a balloon that can loft like 60-80kg
[14:22] <eroomde> we do!
[14:22] <Randomskk> ...then I'll probably test it on myself :P
[14:22] <Randomskk> eroomde: /we/ don't :P
[14:22] <eroomde> in the sports bag in the corner of the lab
[14:23] <Randomskk> oh, really?
[14:23] <eroomde> yes
[14:23] <Randomskk> ...
[14:23] <Randomskk> huh.
[14:23] <Randomskk> okay
[14:23] <eroomde> there are 3 quite large pro zero pressure balloons
[14:23] <Laurenceb> see what you want is a spun launch platform
[14:23] <Laurenceb> unfortunately thats not exactly easy
[14:23] <Randomskk> eroomde: well that's a more pleasing discovery than the radium or the asbestos admittedly
[14:23] <Laurenceb> hehe
[14:23] <jonsowman> ssssh
[14:24] <eroomde> they can take 100kg to 25km i think it was
[14:24] <Randomskk> wow
[14:24] <eroomde> thou dont really recall. they were nabbed from andy elson in summer 2008
[14:24] <eroomde> right gtg
[14:24] <eroomde> bbl
[14:24] <Randomskk> seeya
[14:26] <Laurenceb> its amazing how much of a performance improvement you get at high altitude
[14:27] <Laurenceb> you can do 100Km from a 30km launch with an off the shelf N class iirc
[14:27] <Laurenceb> according to some sims i ran a while back
[14:27] <Darkside> Randomskk: eroomde how much do you want for a ZP :P
[14:27] <Laurenceb> admittedly thats literally just a motor with a cone on the front
[14:27] <Randomskk> what more do you need, right? :P
[14:28] <Laurenceb> well if its spin stabilized...
[14:28] <Darkside> we might possibly be able to get permission to launch a ZP..
[14:28] <Darkside> if we launch it way north
[14:28] <Laurenceb> the annoying thing is the spun rocket isnt enough to stabilise the playform
[14:28] <Laurenceb> but if you just want a sounding rocket type thingy i guess its good enough
[14:30] <nick_> BrainDamage: sorry to run off abruptly, I had to ask a friend something over coffee.
[14:30] <Laurenceb> just a rocket in a CF tube with a brushless motor at the bottom
[14:30] <BrainDamage> np, it was just personal curiosity
[14:31] <nick_> https://plus.google.com/110529057212701972281/posts has some posts about it if you're interest.
[14:32] <nick_> Silicon photomultipliers (or multi-pixel photon counters) are really cool devices.
[14:33] <nick_> I'm hoping to pick up one from a different company that runs at ~30V
[14:34] <Matt_soton> must be quite heavy?
[14:34] <nick_> The temperature dependence might screw me over for a HAB flight.
[14:35] <nick_> what?
[14:35] <Matt_soton> the tubes?
[14:35] <Matt_soton> or is it all solid state?
[14:35] <BrainDamage> SPADs not big
[14:35] <nick_> They aren't tubes.
[14:35] <BrainDamage> it's solid state
[14:35] <Matt_soton> oh ok, the only one ive seen wasnt solid state
[14:35] <BrainDamage> nick_: I can't find what material you used as scintillator
[14:35] <nick_> It's some plastic scintillator.
[14:35] <BrainDamage> polyethylene naphtalate?
[14:35] <Matt_soton> well hopefully itll work better in low pressure then apex
[14:36] <nick_> I couldn't tell you which exactly because I aquired it from a guy who is no longer with us.
[14:36] <nick_> How well do people usually control temperature?
[14:37] <Matt_soton> not so much control as insulate
[14:37] <nick_> Is it relatively easy to use some light multi layer insulation?
[14:37] <Matt_soton> well how low temp can they go?
[14:37] <nick_> I'm not sure.
[14:37] <nick_> They aren't really specified for low temps.
[14:37] <Matt_soton> -10C?
[14:38] <nick_> But the breakdown voltage changes with temperature (although I hope to control for this)
[14:38] <Matt_soton> insulating so not below -10 should be easy
[14:38] <BrainDamage> SPADs actually work better in cold, less thermal generation of e-h pairs giving dark counts
[14:38] <Matt_soton> keeping at about ~15 is mor eof a challange, although has been done
[14:38] <nick_> I've got an environmental chamber that can test them to pretty low temps (-40C or so)
[14:38] <Randomskk> hmm at one point I specced some silicon photmultipliers for satellite operation
[14:39] <Randomskk> they could take both the radiation and the thermal extremes
[14:39] <Randomskk> wonder if I can find the ones I picked
[14:39] <nick_> Randomskk: how long ago was this?
[14:39] <Randomskk> few years now
[14:39] <Randomskk> 2009 maybe
[14:39] <nick_> Were they just geiger mode APDs or the new devices?
[14:39] <BrainDamage> I can dig out the graphs I used during my bachelor thesis, but I used LN2 to bring them to operating temp for single photon detector
[14:40] <BrainDamage> the classic setup with cold finger past a thermal resistance between LN2 and a resistor to stabilize temp
[14:40] <Randomskk> nick_: I think they were somewhere between the two
[14:40] <BrainDamage> final temp was like -180°C iirc
[14:40] <Randomskk> I think they were a bit beyond APDs
[14:40] <Randomskk> something like 60% chance of single photon detection at operating room temperature iirc
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[14:42] <nick_> These have a bunch of geiger mode APDs in parallel, so you get the photon counting ability as well as the massive gain
[14:42] <Randomskk> I think that's what these were.
[14:42] <nick_> Cool.
[14:42] <nick_> If I can find someone to pay for a SENSL ~30V one it will make my life easier.
[14:43] <nick_> The Hamimatsu ones run at ~70V and this scares our safety office.
[14:43] <Randomskk> ah
[14:43] <Randomskk> this is what I'd looked at: http://sensl.com/products/silicon-photomultipliers/spmmini/
[14:44] <nick_> Yeah, I want just the sensor from that.
[14:44] <nick_> I'm making my own DAQ for it.
[14:45] <nick_> But so far I've stolen or borrowed all my equipment (other than electronic components that I need to buy), so I just have the SPM I could borrow.
[14:46] <nick_> Not having a budget kinda sucks.
[14:46] <nick_> I don't mind buying stuff, but I problems if I need our workshops to do anything for me.
[14:47] <Randomskk> yea
[14:48] <nick_> Speaking of which, I should go have a chat with a techician about making me a breakout board for fun.
[14:48] <eroomde> QVC is quite amazing
[14:49] <eroomde> how can these people smile
[14:49] <eroomde> while they're saying all this stuff
[14:49] <Matt_soton> nick_: for breakouts: http://www.spiritcircuits.com/services/go-naked
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[14:55] <gonzo__wk> it's one of those special smiles, worn by people who are desperate for the privvy
[15:01] <eroomde> it's just amazing blueb
[15:01] <eroomde> blurb*
[15:01] <eroomde> i wonder if there are secret messages encoded into it
[15:01] <nick_> Matt_soton: thanks. Our in house electronics are making one for me because I'm friendly :)
[15:02] <nick_> Tiny surface mount devices are too small for my skills.
[15:02] <Matt_soton> oh ok, theyre very good for anyone who doesnt have their own pcb making stuff though
[15:03] <Matt_soton> nick_: http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/IMG_2523.JPG
[15:03] <Matt_soton> thats a spirit board
[15:04] <Laurenceb> wazzit do?
[15:04] <Matt_soton> SDR
[15:04] <Matt_soton> fits ontop of a FPGA board
[15:04] <Laurenceb> ah cool
[15:05] <Matt_soton> my supervisor has some 2.45GHz boards it can connect to
[15:05] <Matt_soton> i would like a elonics IC for it
[15:05] <Matt_soton> or just a HF amp
[15:05] <Matt_soton> but have to write it up for early may
[15:05] <Laurenceb> ahem
[15:05] <Matt_soton> so no time :(
[15:05] <Laurenceb> dvbt dongler
[15:05] <Matt_soton> i know, still time issues
[15:06] <Matt_soton> doesnt help i decided to do hardware and HDL, instead of say getting a premade DAC/ADC board
[15:06] <Matt_soton> could have ended up with more done otherwise
[15:09] <nick_> Matt_soton: how much did it cost?
[15:09] <nick_> Sometime I might need to buy an actual pcb
[15:09] <Matt_soton> most of the silicon was samples, board was free from spirit, connectors cost £££
[15:10] <Matt_soton> but seeed will do you a board for $10 or so
[15:10] <nick_> They actually give you a free board?
[15:10] <Matt_soton> yep
[15:10] <nick_> wow
[15:10] <nick_> One time offer?
[15:10] <Matt_soton> im on my 4th or sometihng now :P
[15:10] <nick_> And they're always free if they are only one sided?
[15:11] <Matt_soton> double
[15:11] <Matt_soton> no silk or mask however
[15:11] <Matt_soton> so probably best not to reflow
[15:12] <nick_> I'm hoping to eventually have a little PCB that does my whole powering and DAQ as a little ~ credit card sized portable detector device.
[15:13] <Matt_soton> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185
[15:13] <Matt_soton> for a final board
[15:14] <nick_> The DAQ circuitry will be pretty simple, just some fast comparators as schmitt triggers, maybe some monostable trigger or whatever.
[15:15] <Matt_soton> might as well do a complete board with sensor and processor?
[15:15] <Upu> I use Seeed
[15:15] <Upu> apart from the random delivery times they are good
[15:15] <nick_> The mbed will be the processor. I'll have some connector for it.
[15:15] <nick_> And the sensor will be off attached to the scintillators, with some lines back to the board.
[15:16] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[15:16] <nick_> I might also have to do some voltage selection for the sensor to take out temperate effects.
[15:17] <nick_> I'd really like to have a fairly cheap board that I can knock out a number of them and leave them at schools, put them on balloons, etc.
[15:17] <nick_> With a few built in powering and data options.
[15:18] <Matt_soton> well seeed will give you 10 boards for your $9.90
[15:18] <nick_> So battery + SD card for a balloon type scenario.
[15:19] <nick_> Ethernet power and data for a school (or microusb if their network doesn't do PoE), etc.
[15:19] <Matt_soton> mind you cheap and mbed not really mix :P
[15:19] <nick_> Well
[15:19] <nick_> The sensors aren't cheap either.
[15:19] <Matt_soton> suppose, its all relative
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[15:19] <nick_> But for this kinda thing I can apply for a grant of up to £10k.
[15:20] <Matt_soton> sorted then
[15:20] <nick_> I think for a school level project a detector for ~£100 isn't bad.
[15:21] <nick_> (Realistically I'm looking at <£250 for a dual sensor device).
[15:22] <Matt_soton> so the idea that schools send these up on balloons?
[15:22] <nick_> Maybe.
[15:22] <jonsowman> ~~.
[15:22] <nick_> I'd like to do a project like that.
[15:22] <jonsowman> sorry
[15:23] <nick_> But there are a bunch of other things schools can do.
[15:24] <Matt_soton> ok
[15:24] <nick_> Sending one on a balloon would be cool because the flux changes with height.
[15:24] <nick_> And sending something near space is cool.
[15:24] <Matt_soton> yea apex found that out, until about 12km
[15:24] <nick_> What do you mean until about 12km?
[15:24] <Matt_soton> the tubes died
[15:24] <nick_> Ah
[15:24] <Matt_soton> and started to work again on the way down
[15:24] <Darkside> are geiger tubes open to air?
[15:25] <nick_> Pressure problems?
[15:25] <Matt_soton> nope
[15:25] <Matt_soton> probably slightly expanded, and the gap increased
[15:25] <Darkside> or is it arcing over or something
[15:25] <Matt_soton> so nope to Darkside and yes to nick_
[15:25] <gonzo__wk> hv probs?
[15:25] <Darkside> i remember comments about geiger tubes arcing over at high altitudes
[15:25] <BrainDamage> Darkside: they are filled with a low pressure gas that gets ionized by the incoming radiation
[15:25] <Matt_soton> well they were flown twice, and they died both times at the same pressure, not temperature
[15:26] <Darkside> Matt_soton: i.e. altitude
[15:26] <Darkside> same altitude
[15:26] <Matt_soton> yea
[15:26] <Matt_soton> so probably not the HV source, it was also fine on landing
[15:26] <r2x0t> interesting... there was the radioactivity monitor payload for Vaisala sondes, but recently they stopped offering it due to bad reliability...
[15:27] <Darkside> hehe
[15:27] <Darkside> i've still got a bunch of those vaisala sondes around the place
[15:27] <Darkside> need to write something so i can upload received data to spacenear.us
[15:27] <r2x0t> SondeMonitor have DDE server
[15:27] <Matt_soton> http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-II/Apex-II-PCBs/IMG_0778
[15:27] <Darkside> yeah i've written some code already that uses that r2x0t
[15:28] <Darkside> no wait, i use the COM/OLE stuff
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[15:28] <Darkside> i coded up a dodgy hack in the back of a chase car once, whhich plotted it on our offline mapping system, giving me live prediction info
[15:28] <r2x0t> cool... I want to use raspberryPI + dvbt dongle for sonde monitoring 24/7
[15:28] <Darkside> r2x0t: uhm
[15:28] <Darkside> windows
[15:28] <r2x0t> but first have to find out how to calculate position
[15:28] <Upu> whos call sign is Astra ?
[15:29] <r2x0t> I can demod the sonde down to frames already
[15:29] <Matt_soton> Upu: mine
[15:29] <Darkside> r2x0t: oh cool
[15:29] <Darkside> yeah, the guy who wrote sondemonitor is a genius
[15:29] <Upu> PM me your postal address pls QSL card
[15:29] <Darkside> bev
[15:29] <Matt_soton> Upu: well when i say mine is the uni's
[15:29] <Matt_soton> *its
[15:29] <Darkside> theres a LOT of work thats gone into reverse engineering the vaisala radio protocol
[15:30] <Matt_soton> you can send it to me however
[15:30] <Darkside> r2x0t: if you get it working, open source it :-)
[15:30] <Upu> No problems ping me your address and I'll send it on
[15:30] <Darkside> i'd be interested, though the mainly fly analog sondes around here
[15:31] <r2x0t> not for long
[15:31] <r2x0t> I talked with guy from met institute
[15:31] <Darkside> r2x0t: <-- australia
[15:31] <r2x0t> Vaisala will stop making Loran/analogue sondes
[15:31] <Darkside> ooh
[15:31] <r2x0t> here, they have about 4 months of analogue sondes, after that it will be all GPS
[15:31] <Darkside> i'm sure our met bureau has a stock of them though
[15:31] <Darkside> might ask about that
[15:32] <Darkside> there was a great thing tha thappened last year
[15:32] <Darkside> where there was an experimental campaign to test a new wind profiler radar
[15:32] <Darkside> they launched about 300 sondes in the space of 3 weeks
[15:32] <r2x0t> nice... hourly sondes?
[15:32] <Darkside> 3 hourly
[15:32] <r2x0t> cool
[15:32] <Darkside> we got about 2o of the things
[15:32] <Darkside> 20*
[15:32] <Darkside> hehe
[15:33] <Darkside> was much fun tracking them down
[15:33] <Darkside> and then i wrote code to reprogrsm them
[15:33] <Darkside> and bring them (just) into the amateur band
[15:33] <r2x0t> they can't be retuned properly
[15:33] <r2x0t> PLL will not lock that high
[15:33] <Darkside> it locked at 420.050MHz
[15:34] <Darkside> which is within our amateur band
[15:34] <Darkside> well, it used to be :-)
[15:34] <r2x0t> not bad
[15:34] <r2x0t> I have bunch of them as well
[15:34] <Darkside> not any more sadly
[15:34] <Darkside> also output power at that freq was about 2mw lol
[15:34] <Darkside> so yeah, not much use
[15:34] <r2x0t> I also have ozone and radioctivity payloads
[15:34] <Darkside> ooooh
[15:34] <Darkside> nice
[15:34] <r2x0t> would be nice to reverse the protocol used for ext payloads
[15:34] <Darkside> i still want to work out how to interface with the sensor board on the things
[15:35] <r2x0t> to put custom data to telemetry
[15:35] <Darkside> becaus they have some nice temp sensors
[15:35] <Upu> who is M0MDB ?
[15:35] <r2x0t> there is space for 50Bd data stream from ext sensors
[15:35] <Darkside> r2x0t: thats cool
[15:35] <Darkside> but you wouldn't be able to fly one legally
[15:35] <r2x0t> so my first thought was battery monitor with pic
[15:36] <r2x0t> why? because of frequency?
[15:36] <Darkside> unless you replace the radio module in one
[15:36] <Darkside> which is doable
[15:36] <r2x0t> I think you can just replace it with RTX module
[15:36] <Darkside> the header on the radio module has clock and data on it, which is all you really need
[15:36] <Darkside> yeah
[15:36] <Darkside> thats actually a good point
[15:36] <r2x0t> there is baseband FM signal on it
[15:36] <r2x0t> just disable tx, feed to module... done :)
[15:36] <Darkside> oh? i never got that far
[15:36] <Darkside> i did find the data lines going to it
[15:37] <Darkside> i was just going to take the data and use another module
[15:37] <r2x0t> transmitter is on smaller board
[15:37] <Darkside> or is that what you mean by baseband FM - the TTL serial
[15:37] <r2x0t> sandwitched together with main CPU board
[15:37] <r2x0t> data for modulator is on that connector, as TTL levels
[15:37] <r2x0t> can probably feed FSK modulator directly with it
[15:38] <Darkside> r2x0t: http://rfhead.net/?p=56
[15:38] <Darkside> been there, done that
[15:38] <Darkside> got the pinout
[15:38] <Darkside> so on so forth
[15:38] <r2x0t> cool
[15:38] <Darkside> pins 2 and 3 (of my arbitrary numbering scheme) have data and clock on them
[15:38] <r2x0t> so replace the gmsk modulator module
[15:38] <Darkside> so yeah, you could just replace that with a NTX2
[15:38] <Darkside> and it might work
[15:39] <r2x0t> or RFM22b if you want same modulation
[15:39] <r2x0t> as it does GMSK
[15:39] <Darkside> but i'd still prefer to use the sensor module separately
[15:39] <r2x0t> and can run from bits + data clock
[15:39] <Darkside> attach it to our existing payloads
[15:39] <Darkside> r2x0t: yeah, RFM22B has the direct mode
[15:39] <Darkside> which could be used for this
[15:39] <r2x0t> exactly
[15:39] <r2x0t> but will need small pic to set registers
[15:39] <Darkside> attiny for me :P
[15:39] <r2x0t> or that :)
[15:40] <Darkside> the main micro on the digisondes is an interesting thing
[15:40] <Darkside> my guess is dsPIC core on custom silicon
[15:40] <Darkside> but i don;t know
[15:40] <r2x0t> it does quite a lot
[15:40] <Darkside> haven't bothered to look any more at the code for it, just modified the frequency set and serial number registers
[15:41] <Darkside> so i could change the frequency and replace the serial number with my callsign :-)
[15:41] <r2x0t> that's enough to use it with alternate tx module
[15:41] <Darkside> yeah
[15:41] <Darkside> not really sure its worth the botehr tbh
[15:41] <r2x0t> lol
[15:42] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tx_board_labelled.jpg
[15:42] <Darkside> i would *love* to get the datasheet for that TX1B chip
[15:43] <r2x0t> maybe just sniff the SPI init sequence
[15:43] <r2x0t> then try changing different registers
[15:43] <Darkside> we worked out that only paylads with a VCC rail of >3.25v or somethig nwould lock at 420.050
[15:44] <Darkside> we mapped out the VCO control voltage vs output frequency
[15:44] <Darkside> sonde with a lower than normal (like, 3.2v) VCC rail wouldn't go above 415 or so
[15:46] <r2x0t> this TX1B may be some other chip, rebranded
[15:47] <r2x0t> but I think it will be really made just for 402MHz
[15:47] <Darkside> i would not be surprised if its somethign custom
[15:47] <Darkside> when you consider the quantities that vaisala sell these thigns in
[15:47] <Darkside> they are effectively a monopoly provider
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[15:49] <Darkside> ok, i need to sleep...
[15:49] <Darkside> night all
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[16:45] <Upu> ping gonzo__
[16:45] <Upu> Who used the call sign JFS1 over the weekend ?
[16:46] <Randomskk> Upu: you have all their latitude and longitudes, just address it to those ;)
[16:46] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@x1-6-20-4e-7f-c8-44-7a.k599.webspeed.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:46] <Upu> lol the post office don't deliver it when you have a post code never mind coordinates
[16:47] <Randomskk> you'd be occasionally surprised
[16:47] <Upu> very occasionally
[16:47] <Randomskk> sometimes they seem to manage to do an exceptional job
[16:47] <Randomskk> a friend in devon had post delivered to them that was just "Name, London, UK"
[16:47] <Randomskk> they were quite surprised :P
[16:47] <Upu> impressive
[16:48] <number10> wasnt smith by any chance?
[16:48] <Upu> They weren't called John Smith were they
[16:48] <Randomskk> no :P
[16:48] <Upu> haha
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[16:49] <Upu> M0MDB G8NSV G3VZV M0DTS M0RND G0NZO M0PDA G4TNX Ping!
[16:49] <Randomskk> guess who M0RND is
[16:49] <jonsowman> email the ukhas list Upu
[16:49] <Upu> aye I will
[16:49] <Randomskk> I could probably work out G0NZO too
[16:49] <number10> MOMDB here
[16:50] <Upu> ah ofc got your address
[16:50] <number10> yes
[16:50] <number10> I hope so ;)
[16:50] <Morseman> I'm going to get to feel unwanted ;-)
[16:50] <Upu> why didn't you get M0TEN ? :)
[16:50] <number10> not available
[16:50] <Upu> or M0NOA in hex :)
[16:50] <jonsowman> lol
[16:50] <Upu> So M0RND is you Adam ? :)
[16:51] <Randomskk> yup
[16:51] <number10> oh, I didnt try that one - infact I got fed up trying quite a load of combinations - I did check that M0UPU was available for you though and it is
[16:51] <Morseman> I did have someone ask me why I was called Godja once...
[16:52] <number10> wdid you choose M0RND, or was it a random assignment Randomskk
[16:53] <Randomskk> hehe :P
[16:53] <number10> :)
[16:53] <gonzo__> I tried for g0nad, but northumbria and district club had that. (Wonder if they realised?)
[16:54] <jonsowman> :\
[16:54] <gonzo__> would have gone for g0ons, but that was too far ahead
[16:55] <gonzo__> when i did mone you could reserve a call, but youy had to wait for it to be allocated in seq
[16:55] <Randomskk> wow
[16:55] <Randomskk> surely that'd take ages?
[16:58] <number10> I wonder if there someone called RON with an M0 call sign
[16:58] <Upu> Your asking if there is a Radio amateur called Ron ?
[16:58] <Randomskk> I imagine they'd take M1 :P
[16:58] <Upu> I can guarantee it
[16:58] <number10> well M0RON
[16:59] <Upu> yeah I got it :)
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[17:05] Nick change: Morseman_ -> Morseman
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[17:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] QSL Cards"
[17:09] john_many_jars (~john_many@cpc3-blbn8-2-0-cust5.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:10] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:14] <Morseman> Keep getting kicked off
[17:14] john_many_jars (john_many@cpc3-blbn8-2-0-cust5.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com) left #highaltitude.
[17:16] <fsphil> the net, or irc?
[17:18] <Morseman> IRC
[17:18] <Morseman> Often a Ping timeout error
[17:19] <Morseman> Strange thing is my other account often gets kicked out for same problem and that's a different ISP and telephone connection
[17:21] <Randomskk> may be your IRC client
[17:21] <Morseman> I'm using webchat.freenode through Firefox
[17:22] <Randomskk> yea, web chat's not great
[17:22] <Randomskk> might be worth installing a proper IRC client
[17:23] <Morseman> Many years ago I used mIRC so I might go looking for that instead then
[17:23] <Randomskk> mIRC's okay, works. xchat is maybe nicer, also available freely for windows
[17:24] <Upu> always used mIRC here for years generally pretty stable
[17:26] <Morseman> On this works PC the mIRC download is blocked but xchat seems OK
[17:27] <Randomskk> you'll want http://silverex.org/news/ for windows xchat, the windows build from xchat.org is pay-for for some reason
[17:27] <Randomskk> (it's open source either way)
[17:28] <Morseman> Just setting it up
[17:28] Morseman (586125bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.97.37.189) left irc:
[17:30] Morseman (586125bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.97.37.189) joined #highaltitude.
[17:30] Morseman (586125bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.97.37.189) left irc: Client Quit
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[17:34] <Morseman> Test
[17:36] <Upu> success
[17:36] <r2x0t> no
[17:36] <r2x0t> just get xchat wdk
[17:36] <r2x0t> that is free
[17:36] <Morseman> Took a while to figure out HI
[17:36] <r2x0t> this silverex is very outdated
[17:36] <r2x0t> http://code.google.com/p/xchat-wdk/
[17:37] <Morseman> This says it's an 'evaluation copy' so may be short lived
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[17:41] Morseman (~david.ack@88-97-37-189.dsl.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[17:41] <Morseman> Xchat-WKD now...
[17:42] nigelvh (45a4a77e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.164.167.126) joined #highaltitude.
[17:45] <cuddykid> what the hell is the point of abstract classes and methods& well, I guess there must be a reason :S
[17:46] <Randomskk> cuddykid: so an interface can be defined without specofying its implementation, allowing many subclasses to implement it in their own specific fashion
[17:46] <Randomskk> specifying*
[17:47] <Randomskk> if I had an abstract StorageMedium, it itself can't store anything, but it might define common methods like store(data, location) and retrieve(location)
[17:47] <cuddykid> is it like a template in a way? so, if someone else looks at the code they can see what methods are common to subclasses?
[17:47] <Randomskk> then my concrete (non-abstract) classes Book, HardDrive, SDCard etc can all descend from StorageMedium
[17:47] <Randomskk> they all provide a way of storing data, but the actual implementation is very different.
[17:48] <Randomskk> in a way, yes, it's like a template -- but don't use that word, because it means something specific and different in generic programming
[17:48] <cuddykid> oh ok :P
[17:48] <Randomskk> it's not really about someone else looking at the code
[17:48] <cuddykid> thanks
[17:48] <Randomskk> it's about other pieces of code expecting a StorageMedium
[17:48] <Randomskk> it means I can write my VideoRecorder program
[17:48] <Randomskk> and tell it I'll give it a StorageMedium for it to store videos on
[17:48] <Randomskk> and it doesn't care what type of StorageMedium it gets -- it knows that all StorageMediums provide store() and retrieve()
[17:49] <Randomskk> so when at run time I actually give it an SDCard, it can store my video files on that just fine
[17:49] <Randomskk> if I gave it a HardDrive instead, same thing
[17:49] <cuddykid> ahhh, I see, that's neat
[17:49] <Randomskk> the StorageMedium /abstracts out/ the specific details of how you are storing
[17:49] <Randomskk> leaving just the concept of storage
[17:49] <Randomskk> which is all VideoRecorder cares about
[17:49] <nigelvh> Well done on the explanation there Randomskk, these topics can be kinda funky.
[17:49] <cuddykid> gotya - I think :D
[17:49] <cuddykid> yeah, thanks!
[17:49] <Randomskk> cuddykid: best understood by implenting it yourself in something or other
[17:49] <cuddykid> Randomskk: doing it now for shapes :P
[17:50] <Randomskk> hehe
[17:50] <cuddykid> one of my courseworks
[17:50] <Randomskk> yes fair enough
[17:50] <Randomskk> shapes are a canonical example
[17:50] <Randomskk> abstract Shape.area(); concrete Square.area() = x²; concrete Triangle.area = 0.5 * base * height; that sort of thing
[17:50] <Randomskk> anything that wants to deal with a Shape knows it can get its area by asking area()
[17:51] <Randomskk> but specific shapes work out their area differently
[17:51] <cuddykid> doing that right now! haha calcArea()
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[17:57] <cuddykid> OO programming is just brilliant
[17:57] MrCraig (~MrCraig@host-78-146-71-207.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:58] <Randomskk> be careful not to fall into the trap of "when you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"
[17:58] <Randomskk> OO is good and all but it's no panacea
[17:59] <nick_> cuddykid: important lesson; if your object only has a constructor and one function it probably shouldn't be an object.
[18:01] <Randomskk> unless you are programming in java, in which case everything should definitely be an object
[18:01] <Randomskk> with at least ten compiler keywords before its name
[18:02] <cuddykid> lol
[18:02] <cuddykid> yes
[18:02] Action: nick_ needs to get his head around go's OO model
[18:03] <nick_> Or really it's way around OO
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[18:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] ADS-B"
[18:32] <NigeyS> mmm ads-b .. if only they werent so expensive, and didnt weight as much as a house brick!
[18:33] <r2x0t> there was link to some 100g ads-b responder
[18:33] <r2x0t> so weight isn't that bad... but price it
[18:33] <r2x0t> *is
[18:33] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host-78-150-209-59.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:34] <NigeyS> yeah thats what oliver has been going on about, its a lovely bit of kit, nice and light, but you can bet it's gonna cost a few k :/
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[18:44] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@23-24-80-141-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:49] choppyhorse (~K@eyang.me.stevens-tech.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:50] <choppyhorse> Hey, is the Predictor on habhub.org valid outside the UK?
[18:50] <Upu> hey choppyhorse
[18:50] <Upu> yes it is
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[18:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> r2x0t i got a adb-b rx here, so im ready for it :-)
[18:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ads-b that is
[18:52] <choppyhorse> ty
[18:53] Martin100 (~Martin@78-105-240-247.zone3.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:56] <choppyhorse> I've been checking balloon paths every few days to see if weather patterns change and my flight distance is always >150km... sometimes over 200km
[18:58] <choppyhorse> thats gonna be a fun day of driving
[19:02] fsphil-laptop (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:219:d2ff:fe09:a6b9) joined #highaltitude.
[19:07] <x-f> where are you from?
[19:09] <x-f> i had 200 km distances in late winter, now they have shrunk to about 130 km, some days only 30-40 km range
[19:09] <choppyhorse> I am in the NE part of the US, near NYC
[19:09] golddragon24 (~anonymous@97-91-250-220.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) left irc: Quit: golddragon24
[19:10] <choppyhorse> I have only been checking for about a month, so from what you say it might go down by our launch date a few months from now
[19:10] <x-f> i think jetstream is over you in this season
[19:10] <fsphil-laptop> I had one flight travel 544km :)
[19:10] <x-f> it should die soon, iirc
[19:31] ooda55 (56a7e357@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.167.227.87) joined #highaltitude.
[19:32] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] QSL Cards"
[19:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> could someone delete me on the tracker, im finish with the app test ?
[19:38] Jasperw (~jasperw@2a01:348:82:0:223:5aff:fef5:cce) joined #highaltitude.
[19:38] <Upu> I'll delete it OZ1SKY_Brian just say when
[19:39] ^ph (~ph@0x57393b9c.srnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> when
[19:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> :-)
[19:40] <Upu> hmm which one is you ?
[19:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> both, make a mistake at first
[19:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> made
[19:40] <Upu> I only see Anu and KF4ZTI
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[19:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah someone else did it then, hi
[19:41] <Upu> cool :)
[19:41] golddragon24 (~anonymous@wufis-pat11.nts.wustl.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[19:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> was testing the habapp with priyesh, because i had a bug with my danish carset. But works perfect now
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[19:43] <Upu> you launching a balloon ?
[19:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no, but now im ready if one should land here :-)
[19:44] <Upu> well we are planning a floater to Europe
[19:44] <Upu> will have 2mtr APRS and 70cms RTTY
[19:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sounds great, then ill x my fingers for a track over here
[19:45] <Upu> we'll aim for you :)
[19:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> will put the bullseye on the roof :-)
[19:46] <daveake> Just paint a tree on the roof
[19:46] <Upu> with power lines in it
[19:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lol yeah
[19:46] <daveake> and a bit of ocean
[19:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 3km away there is a big powerplant with lots of HV lines going out from it, will that help ?
[19:47] <Upu> undoubtedly
[19:47] <daveake> perfect. And an airport nearby too :)
[19:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah not too far away, and 2 high RTV towers
[19:48] <daveake> An ideal target then
[19:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> looking forward to it then :)
[19:49] <fsphil> of course it will miss all that and land in an open sewer
[19:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil dont have any of those near by
[19:50] <fsphil> they're probably building it right now
[19:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh wait, we got a water cleaning plant 2km away, so check on that too
[19:50] <fsphil> see!
[19:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lol
[19:51] <daveake> it just gets better
[19:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> only ´amateur´ ballon launch i know of in Denmark, been this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43NUshmJfwM
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[19:52] <Martin100> Could someone help me with filling out a NOTAM application?
[19:52] <daveake> What do you need to know?
[19:52] <Martin100> Maximum dimension of balloon, do they need to knwo the diameter at burst?
[19:53] <daveake> I just say "max 1.5m at launch"
[19:53] <fsphil> yea I do that too
[19:53] <Martin100> thought that would be best as the proispect of a 25ft+ object might freak them out a bit :)
[19:53] MrCraig (~MrCraig@host-78-146-52-155.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:54] <Martin100> How much detail do they need in "Instrumentation on or suspended from balloon" ?
[19:54] <daveake> I doubt they care what size it is when it's 3 times higher than anything else :)
[19:55] <Upu> good job they don't include the payload train in those calcs : http://i.imgur.com/rfGgk.jpg
[19:55] <Randomskk> are you sure that train was long enough? :P
[19:55] <daveake> lol
[19:55] <daveake> Love that shot
[19:55] <Upu> eroomde made it :)
[19:55] <daveake> Randomskk it was just long enough as it turned out!
[19:55] <Randomskk> :P
[19:55] <Martin100> Wingspan of an A380?
[19:55] <Upu> yeah it was perfect
[19:56] <daveake> Much shorter and Ava would still be up that tree
[19:58] <daveake> Martin100 I actually list something like "radio transmitter, temperature and pressure sensors, GPS" but I doubt it matters much
[20:00] <daveake> Upu I ordered a key for that little square cylinder valve. Less than £2
[20:00] Action: nick_ should hang out here more often.
[20:00] <Upu> Sure I'll blag a free one next time
[20:00] <daveake> :)
[20:00] <Upu> yes you should nick_ :)
[20:00] <Upu> only place to be
[20:01] <nick_> I use dalnet all the time, usually only come to freenode for specific things.
[20:01] <Martin100> daveake thanks, tThat's more or less what I've put, wasn't sure if mentioning cameras was a good idea
[20:01] <Upu> The manager at our local BoC is a very chirpy and asks loads about what we are doing
[20:01] <nick_> But freenode has a bunch of geeky channels.
[20:01] <daveake> Martin100 I don't include the cameras
[20:01] <Upu> you can run 2 networks at once
[20:02] <nick_> Is there much of a HAB community on google+
[20:02] <nick_> ?
[20:02] <daveake> Is there much of a community on google+
[20:02] <daveake> ?
[20:02] <Upu> Whats google+ ? :)
[20:02] <daveake> :D
[20:03] <nick_> daveake: yes, I interact with a loot of geeks there.
[20:03] <Upu> this is your community
[20:03] <nick_> I did some searching for HAB stuff there but just found bands and churches :(
[20:04] <gonzo__> you find a better class of geek here though
[20:04] <Upu> +1
[20:04] <daveake> +0x01
[20:04] <Upu> don't start we'll have binary next
[20:04] <nick_> I find google+ is like IRC in many ways, just with pictures and videos and a lower refresh rate.
[20:05] <nigelvh> B00000001
[20:05] <daveake> I was expecting just that!
[20:05] <gonzo__> that was a BIT below the belt!
[20:05] <daveake> Actually I bet myself the next post would be 0000001b and it'd be fsphil
[20:05] <daveake> Not far off
[20:05] <daveake> :D
[20:05] <nigelvh> Sorry I failed in not being fsphil
[20:05] <fsphil> indeed
[20:05] <daveake> :)
[20:06] <LazyLeopard> Don't think I'l nybl, let alone byte...
[20:06] <gonzo__> don't get in a state
[20:06] <nigelvh> Really "1" works in just about any base you choose.
[20:06] <gonzo__> base zreo?
[20:06] <gonzo__> zero
[20:06] <nigelvh> You can't count in base zero
[20:07] <fsphil> surprised they don't teach it in schools then
[20:07] <gonzo__> i know, my bank manager keeps tellingme
[20:07] <nigelvh> "Just add a few zeroes on the end. They're worth zero anyway right?"
[20:08] <gonzo__> prob it's the leading zero's that do the damage
[20:08] <daveake> Ask him for a float
[20:09] <nigelvh> (float)$my_account
[20:09] <daveake> (double)$my_account
[20:09] <nigelvh> Hopefully you might gain a penny or two
[20:11] <gonzo__> i've never used floating point in my life. And been at the keys for 20yrs (man and boy)
[20:12] <nigelvh> I use floating point frequently, though I do avoid it depending on the application
[20:12] <Randomskk> I only use infinite precision computation
[20:12] <gonzo__> integer maths and manage the multipliers explicitly
[20:12] <Randomskk> it takes a while but I can sure I'm not making any rounding errors
[20:13] <nigelvh> Ok, Pi*2
[20:13] <Randomskk> sure, running it now, I'll let you know when it's done
[20:14] <Randomskk> got it
[20:14] <daveake> Ah, a maths function that needs the address of a callback
[20:14] <gonzo__> when I write in any language, I'm thinking in assembler
[20:14] <nigelvh> At one point I did some benchmarking with calculating Pi to some ungodly decimal place.
[20:14] <fsphil> when I write in VB, I'm thinking of pain
[20:14] <gonzo__> and never used a library either.
[20:15] Lunar_Lander (~Lunar_Lan@p54882812.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:15] <Randomskk> gonzo__: not sure what point you're making
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:15] <gonzo__> hehe, yep, I've never written in vb, just hacked. Like hacking with a machette
[20:15] <nigelvh> That's he's more BA at programming than we are.
[20:16] <gonzo__> I'm not sure of the point either
[20:16] <gonzo__> just different applicationa
[20:16] <gonzo__> s
[20:16] <nigelvh> You know, there are reasons why floating point and libraries and whatnot else exist.
[20:16] <nigelvh> They can make things easier if used properly
[20:17] <nigelvh> keywords "used properly"
[20:17] <Randomskk> I'm not sure easier is even the right word
[20:17] <gonzo__> problem is, if I can't have the source I won't use it. And if I do get the source, I end up rewriting it the way I would have done it
[20:18] <nigelvh> Yes, I've never used a non-open-source library
[20:18] <nigelvh> And often I modify them
[20:18] <nigelvh> but they do save time.
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> today I ordered a 808 camera :)
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> one of the type #16 versions
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> so the most up to date model so far
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[20:26] Nick change: golddragon24_ -> golddragon24
[20:40] <ooda55> Lunar_Lander oohh i was thinking about getting one of those
[20:41] <ooda55> the only probelm i can think of for a HAB, when the batteries go flat, does it end the video for you, or do you end up with a nice big invalid MOV file?
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[20:55] <ooda55> What kinda words per min do you guys send your CW data at ?
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[20:56] <fsphil> 0 :)
[20:58] <ooda55> Is that becuase you dont use morse :P
[20:58] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Balloon flights with NASA"
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[21:24] <NigeyS> ping DanielRichman
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> ooda55, still on?
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> I just departed for dinner when you asked
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[21:27] <ooda55> Yes sorry still bhere
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[21:27] <ooda55> *here
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> when the batts go flat, there is usually a movie file that is corrupt and can't be recovered
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> but I found a new gadget that is sold by the makers of the 808
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.ebay.de/itm/External-Power-Pack-UPS-Charger-for-16-HD-808-Car-Key-Camera-1200mAH-appr-200M-/160707969178?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256af1009a
[21:29] <ooda55> Just to clarify, the 808 is the little car keychain style camera from ebay?
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:30] <ooda55> Ah i see, should last the duration of the flight if it dosent get too cold then!
[21:30] <Randomskk> mst
[21:30] <Randomskk> uhm
[21:30] <Randomskk> most of them can split the video file up
[21:30] <Randomskk> into like 20min chunks
[21:30] <ooda55> Ah right thats
[21:30] <ooda55> pretty handy
[21:31] <ooda55> Ive been playing around with my 433mhz transmitters and new scanner
[21:32] <ooda55> got an arduino pumping out morse code, and decoding it using MRP40, surprised how easy it was!
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Randomskk sorry
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> I got the old model #3
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> the new one has some kind of configuration program
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[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi UpuWork
[21:37] <ooda55> Lets hope its a bit better than my cheap chinese GPS GSM tracker, was hoping to send that up but not sure if it is reliable enough
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> arduino should be quite OK
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[22:04] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> hi there
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> oh i owe you a solenoid valve
[22:06] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_ it got returned!
[22:06] <jcoxon> something went weird with delivery
[22:06] <jcoxon> so it came back to me
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> oh i thought it was lost
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> so i was going to send you one anyway
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> that clears that one up
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> it seems sensortechnics is a distributor for parker, and they have a webstore
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> http://ph.parker.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product2_10151_12051_12160_-1_14099_14099_14097_ProductDisplayErrorView
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> http://ph.parker.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product2_10151_12051_12163_-1_14107_14107_14097_ProductDisplayErrorView
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> sensortechnics have a horrendous leadtime
[22:19] <navrac> evening jcoxon
[22:20] <navrac> just finished emailing you again.
[22:20] <jcoxon> hey navrac
[22:20] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:20] <jcoxon> just finished work
[22:20] <navrac> you seem to ha
[22:20] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> cya
[22:20] <navrac> ve a knack of coming on whilst im writing emails
[22:20] <navrac> bye
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[22:21] <jcoxon> navrac, okay cool
[22:21] <jcoxon> do you think the setup can cope with the current spikes?
[22:22] <navrac> yes - sadly no sun at all today so couldnt test it on solar
[22:22] <jcoxon> interesting to compare against on/off
[22:22] <jcoxon> i've got a new meter today
[22:22] <jcoxon> so can do much more accurate measuring
[22:23] <navrac> i fixed my meter otherwise i was reading on the 10a range...
[22:24] <navrac> need to get one of my scopes back to measure accuratly as the current jumps all over the place.
[22:24] <navrac> I think cyclic 20sec and power on/off for 20 sec will save a few ma - but not many
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[22:26] <jcoxon> you making sure that the radio is off when booting the gps? to limit overall current
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[22:27] <navrac> the draw seems to be related to the acquisition time in good signal conditions it only seemed to draw 15mA - but i think it was 35ma and just too short to measure correctly on the meter due to the sampling time.
[22:28] <navrac> Yes i have code to do that - it does mean it doesnt tx till lock - but makes it difficult to tell if youve turned it on!
[22:29] <jcoxon> well i was thinking
[22:29] <jcoxon> we could turn off the gps straight away on boot
[22:29] <jcoxon> with my commands
[22:29] <navrac> Im going to play with the register i mentioned - to try setting the cycle period longer.
[22:29] <jcoxon> then could power up the txer to makes ure thats wworking
[22:29] <navrac> yep I'll try both ways but my time is limited for a bit which is sad
[22:30] <navrac> I really need more time - but this is only a test flight so as long as it doesnt crash i dont really mind
[22:31] <jcoxon> fair enough
[22:33] <navrac> ill change the code so it only powers down the tx during relock rather than initial lock.
[22:33] <navrac> I didnt measure the code in off state.
[22:33] <navrac> the draw i mean
[22:34] <navrac> Just need some sunshine tommorrow really
[22:34] <navrac> I presume at 5km we will be above most of the cloud cover?
[22:35] <r2x0t> most of it
[22:35] <r2x0t> maybe some scattered clouds that high
[22:35] <r2x0t> unless it flights into storm supercell
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[22:36] <navrac> those will be fine - the solar gave the rated output and enough to power the payload completely on a day with scattered high clouds
[22:36] <navrac> just not enough for reaquiring and txing at the same time.
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[22:42] Nick change: Martin_100 -> Martin_100_mobil
[22:42] Nick change: Martin_100_mobil -> Martin_100mobile
[22:44] <gonzo__> any launches due this weekend?
[22:45] <navrac> ozzie2 on sunday
[22:45] <gonzo__> is that a UK one?
[22:46] <navrac> yep
[22:46] <navrac> hopefuuly france and spain too if im lucky
[22:46] <gonzo__> ah yours.
[22:47] <gonzo__> I'm away at the weekend, but I'll pack my rx kit
[22:48] <navrac> well its going to be only 5km high so only 200km range
[22:50] <gonzo__> pico flight?
[22:51] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: hi
[22:51] <NigeyS> hey dan, sorry, fixed now, had some problems getting flidigi compiled
[22:51] <navrac> yep trying to emulate ozzie1 but this time mainly solar powered and using lower poer modes to give more than the 11 hours i got last time - the balloon was fine but the batteries died
[22:51] <NigeyS> build-dep wasnt working so it missed a ton of deps
[22:52] <DanielRichman> aah. Common symptom of not having run apt-get update
[22:52] <NigeyS> oh i did that
[22:52] <NigeyS> just my system being stoopid :D
[22:53] <DanielRichman> stranfe
[22:53] <DanielRichman> uh. ge
[22:53] <NigeyS> night be that mint 12 has less of the required packages than a standard ubuntu install aswell
[22:55] <DanielRichman> well, good that it now works :-)
[22:55] <jcoxon> navrac, i'll play with on/off modes tomorrow
[22:55] <NigeyS> yeah, had some issues with portaudio but thats fine, getting some weird UI artifacts mind
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[22:57] <navrac> just had a thought re habitat - if it wakes up again all the packets are going to be reset to zero - they will be ignored as duplictes so do i need to store the last value of count in EEPROM or possibly restart the count at nx65000 where n is the number of the restart
[22:58] <fsphil> good question
[22:58] <jcoxon> i thought it work off time
[22:58] <navrac> oh thats ok then
[22:58] <navrac> saves having another library in the code
[22:58] <DanielRichman> navrac: habitat ignores duplicate sentences only. if the count is the same but lat is differbent ita okay
[22:59] <DanielRichman> however spacenearus might group by count. I don't know.
[22:59] <navrac> ah thanks - id hate to think it would wake in the morning and be ignored
[22:59] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: what kind of thing? does vanilla fldigi do the same?
[23:00] <jcoxon> nah spacenear.us uses server time
[23:00] <NigeyS> same on vanilla yeah, tabs randomly disappear
[23:00] <NigeyS> or go white, prog itself still works fine though
[23:00] <Randomskk> jcoxon: are you sure? how does it group multiple listeners to the same sentence?
[23:01] <jcoxon> hmmm
[23:01] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
[23:02] <DanielRichman> I remember reading some spacenearus JS that used seq only
[23:04] <navrac> well if count is an integer on spacenearus then I can use a word as an internal counter on ozzie and then copy it to an int and set bit17 up according to the restart from eprom if thats the case
[23:05] <jcoxon> navrac, don't change anything
[23:05] <navrac> ok
[23:05] <jcoxon> spacenear.us can be adapted if necessary
[23:05] <jcoxon> or habitat can modify it
[23:05] <DanielRichman> yeah we could add a filter to replace sentence id really easily
[23:06] <Randomskk> dunno how we'd know when to replace it though
[23:06] <navrac> Well for it to happen according to my calcs the balloon would have to be up for 3 days before it got itself into that position
[23:07] <DanielRichman> could just replace it with int(server time) - c
[23:07] <Randomskk> oh yea
[23:07] <Randomskk> k
[23:08] <DanielRichman> thaough will have to be careful about double parsing.... that's a race condition anyway so probably would produce the same time
[23:09] <navrac> well since the last pico flights have gone up leaked and come down either I did something right by accident which i now have to replicate or alternatively i need a lot of luck
[23:09] <navrac> or both
[23:09] <Randomskk> why would it double parse?
[23:09] <Randomskk> same sentence
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[23:10] <jcoxon> navrac, looking forward to the launch, good flightpath
[23:12] <DanielRichman> race between second listener saving and saving parsed result; couch sends the _changes line. Save xonflict, saves, returns to changes main loop, then parses it again
[23:13] <DanielRichman> it doesn't matter currently since parsing always produces the same result
[23:13] <Randomskk> huh.
[23:13] <Randomskk> yea
[23:14] <Randomskk> would it help if parser got the document itself instead of include_docs?
[23:14] <Randomskk> then checked for _parsed
[23:14] <DanielRichman> because we use continuous changes the second change gets queued up
[23:16] <navrac> havent done a prediction since this morning - it got all woozie over spain iirc
[23:16] <DanielRichman> It might, but the benefits could be negated by the extra request. The second parse is guaranteed to produce a save conflict, so
[23:16] <DanielRichman> instead we could check when merging the conflict
[23:16] <DanielRichman> and/or check of our merge will actually modify the doc
[23:17] <Randomskk> hmm
[23:18] <Randomskk> I wonder how common conflicts are
[23:18] <Randomskk> could just have it keep the last n doc IDs it parsed
[23:18] <Randomskk> and skip 'em if they come up in _changes
[23:19] <DanielRichman> that would also work. Maybe it should keey time and only skip if it was a second or two ago
[23:19] <jcoxon> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/yaesu-uhf-ft-790r-all-mode-/230771741653?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item35bb1153d5#ht_500wt_1118
[23:19] <DanielRichman> *keep
[23:20] <DanielRichman> or we could keep _rev of the doca we save (or last N) and compare
[23:20] <navrac> jcoxon - on my watch list now - thanks
[23:20] <Randomskk> hm
[23:21] <navrac> jcoxon - just ran the predictor - now that would be impressive if it lasted that long!
[23:22] <jcoxon> link
[23:22] <DanielRichman> it's issue #171
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[23:49] <Randomskk> bleh, lost internet for half an hour there
[23:49] <Randomskk> oh well, got another revision question done I guess
[23:50] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: okay. will probably look into that once the current work on the parser is done.
[23:50] <Randomskk> there are a number of possible solutions I guess
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 5 2012