highaltitude.log.20120327

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[00:53] <Darkside> hrm
[00:53] <Darkside> so waht happened with the SHARP launch?
[00:53] <Darkside> 10.3km?
[00:53] <Darkside> and last point at 1.9km alt?
[00:58] <craag> Darkside: Cutdown fired prematurely I believe.
[00:59] <craag> Also rtty was wobbly.
[01:00] <Darkside> heh
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[01:12] <schofieldau> hey Darkside
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[01:24] <schofieldau> you around?
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[04:38] <x-f> hmm..
[04:39] <x-f> according to PHB twitter PHB should have dropped ballast 20 minutes ago, yet it just updated with a even lower altitude
[04:39] <x-f> (good morning)
[05:01] <oh7lzb> Seems to be going down (good morning)
[05:16] <x-f> sharp turn
[05:17] <SpeedEvil> It's decided to go back to the USA.
[05:18] <SpeedEvil> Is it being picked up in the azores - or is this spot?
[05:19] <oh7lzb> azores, APRS
[05:20] <oh7lzb> hover mouse cursor on top of a station or a point on the path and it'll draw a line to the receiver
[05:22] <SpeedEvil> ah
[05:23] <SpeedEvil> It's not working for some reason
[05:24] <oh7lzb> wat? at http://aprs.fi/KD2AUC-1 ?
[05:25] <oh7lzb> Ahh, the spacenear.us tracker
[05:26] <oh7lzb> doesn't show that many APRS-specific details, as it's more closely and better tailored for the balloon fun
[05:27] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning the spacenear one - but the aprs doesn't show either
[05:27] <SpeedEvil> even for the non-spot links
[05:27] <oh7lzb> http://aprs.fi/KD2AUC-1 has the aprs packet path display. I'm pretty sure it does, just checked :)
[05:27] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't for me, oddly.
[05:28] <SpeedEvil> I can click, and get path info, and then click the path node, to get linked to the station
[05:28] <SpeedEvil> Cu3hy - for example
[05:28] <SpeedEvil> But no lines.
[05:29] <oh7lzb> Ahhh, need to tune up the time range
[05:29] <SpeedEvil> Ah - right
[05:29] <oh7lzb> so that cu3hy is drawn on the map, and the line's other end point is found... cu3hy has not been reporting it's position for over an hour
[05:30] <oh7lzb> That's a sort of a bug really, it should not evict the referenced receiver station from the map even if it's outside the time range
[05:31] <oh7lzb> It was working nicely with 1-hour time range just a bit over 10 minutes ago :)
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[05:50] <Upu> morning
[05:55] <Upu> wel if that doesn't go up again in the sun light its game over
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[06:07] <SpeedEvil> No sign of ballast dump?
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[06:22] <x-f> nope, 300m down in last 25 minutes
[06:25] <x-f> i think it will ascend after sunrise, but not to previous altitude
[06:25] <x-f> at least not without a successful ballast dump
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[06:29] <x-f> on the positive side - if it stays in the jetstream for a while and then ascends, it might go towards UK not Spain and Mediterranean (as with all previous trans-atlantic flights) :)
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[06:40] <jcoxon> at this altitude the wind patterns aren't in favour of PBH
[06:40] <jcoxon> it'll pull it north
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[06:46] <UpuWork> yeah due north
[06:47] <UpuWork> I tried to work out what would happen when it clawed back to altitude but I broke the predictor
[06:48] <fsphil> still a while before sunrise there
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[06:53] <SpeedEvil> I assume if it doesn't reach the jetstream again - it's just going to bouce around going basically nowhere for a couple of days.
[06:53] <jcoxon> they might need us to send some commands later
[06:53] <jcoxon> if it gets closer
[06:55] <UpuWork> haha right
[06:56] <UpuWork> you think they will let us loose with that
[06:56] <UpuWork> given how insular they are about the whole project I suspect they'd rather dump it in the ocean
[06:57] <UpuWork> you were right fsphil didn't get an answer to my question
[06:59] <Darkside> hey all
[06:59] <UpuWork> Morning Darkside
[06:59] <Darkside> mm it is morning over there :P
[06:59] <UpuWork> yeah and I'm annoyed already
[07:00] <UpuWork> and I don't get annoyed
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[07:00] <UpuWork> but humans are so stupid sometimes
[07:00] <Darkside> heh, looks like their ballst drop didn't happen
[07:00] <daveake> My ADSL has been down for 14 hours so I'm a happy bunny*
[07:00] <daveake> *lie
[07:00] <UpuWork> yeah
[07:00] <Darkside> i bet they can't contact it from where they are
[07:00] <UpuWork> back now
[07:01] <Darkside> they need somoene in the azores to do it
[07:01] <Darkside> oh wait, its auto ballast
[07:01] <UpuWork> meant to be
[07:01] <Darkside> mm
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[07:01] <Darkside> well its still going down
[07:01] <UpuWork> it'll come up again when the sun comes up
[07:01] <Darkside> so what happened with the SHARP launch?
[07:02] <Darkside> why did it drop out at 1.9km altitude?
[07:02] <UpuWork> the cut down worked
[07:02] <UpuWork> :)
[07:02] <daveake> premature release
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[07:02] <daveake> and this time, after the cutdown, it missed the ground :)
[07:03] <Darkside> uhh
[07:03] <daveake> was found hanging from a telephone pole
[07:03] <Darkside> hah
[07:03] <Darkside> so there was data collected
[07:03] <Darkside> just didnt make it to the tracker
[07:04] <daveake> No it was on the tracker
[07:04] <daveake> Cutdown was just above 10km
[07:04] <Darkside> the last point on the tracker is at 1.9km altitude
[07:06] <daveake> OIC, no-one close uploading. The chase car (van) doesn't have a receiver with SSB
[07:06] <Darkside> daveake: wut
[07:06] <daveake> Believe a member of the public found it and called them
[07:06] <daveake> what i said
[07:06] <Darkside> did they have sms backup?
[07:06] <Darkside> oh
[07:06] <Darkside> so it was a tim flight
[07:07] <Darkside> seriously though
[07:07] <Darkside> no radio in the chase car...
[07:12] <x-f> sunrise for PBH in about 20 minutes
[07:14] <x-f> i think
[07:15] <mfa298> I thought the SHARP team had a radio in the car but might have had patchy internet so not so much being updated
[07:16] <mfa298> I think the gps wasn't updating the location for dl-fldigi so anythong they detected and uploaded was shown as being in southampton
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[07:18] <UpuWork> Darkside are you getting those timing modules direct ? I might be putting an order in later on
[07:18] <UpuWork> I'm reading through export documentation but its just a nightmare
[07:18] <Darkside> we're going to try and get them direct
[07:20] <daveake> mfa298 I was told no radio in the van. The radio they had was minus SSB so no decoding. andrew_apex I believe was following in a car with proper receiver
[07:20] <daveake> Best ask them for details
[07:21] <daveake> mfa298 Yes the uplink at launch was Andrew
[07:22] <eroomde> moaning
[07:22] <daveake> it is
[07:22] <daveake> i am
[07:22] <UpuWork> morning Ed
[07:25] <mfa298> daveake: possibly, I thought they'de all gone up in the one van but it's possible they had a car as well
[07:25] <fsphil> UpuWork, they might answer after the flight is done
[07:26] <fsphil> doubt it
[07:26] <daveake> Well, I was told that they had no direct telemetry in the van so they were relying on spacenear
[07:30] <eroomde> foooooolish
[07:31] <eroomde> one doesn't not simply 3G into landing sites
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[07:34] <daveake> Indeed. We lost 3G when chasing down my foil flight on Saturday, but the local telemetry meant we knew roughly where it was (we lost that too as it landed). So after some faffing around trying to find a road to where we wanted to go, we picked up the telemetry again and found it. Without that we'd have been stuffed.
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[07:44] <number10> was the antenna on buzz damaged much on landing, I was just wondering about the different antennas I have seen on payloads and which has the best chance of continuing to work after landing
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[07:50] <UpuWork> well PBH is in the sun again
[07:50] <radicalbiscuit> hmm, PBH hitting sunrise and still falling
[07:50] <UpuWork> give it time
[07:50] <radicalbiscuit> I want to believe
[07:51] <UpuWork> thats alot of gas that needs to warm up
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[07:52] <radicalbiscuit> I have had dreams about this balloon. I'm constantly checking during my waking hours, which have been getting closer to European time zones with the balloon's flight (I hail from the US)
[07:55] <UpuWork> Yeah I like what they are doing but if they are going to utilise the amateur network I really think they should give a little more information back to the community
[07:56] <radicalbiscuit> Absolutely. I hope to launch in a few years (sooner, if I move closer to an interested and active hackerspace) and the more info, the better.
[07:58] <LazyLeopard> Wonder whether it's dropped into high cloud?
[07:58] <UpuWork> its not really an amateur project though, well not the way I see it but anyway lets see what happens when it gets warm
[07:58] <x-f> PBH updated - 11.7 km
[07:58] <UpuWork> that was 20 mins ago ?
[07:59] <x-f> then i'm late, sorry
[07:59] <radicalbiscuit> it just updated on APRS 4 mins ago
[08:00] <UpuWork> Sure ?
[08:00] <UpuWork> Updated: 2012-03-27 01:59:05z (6h)
[08:01] <radicalbiscuit> what's this object? http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=5&call=a%2FKD2AUC-SP&timerange=3600
[08:02] <radicalbiscuit> spot updates?
[08:06] <fsphil> it doesn't have a spot tracker
[08:06] <UpuWork> you sure ?
[08:06] <fsphil> nope
[08:06] <UpuWork> do they have some payload details somewhere ?
[08:06] <fsphil> I thought they where relying on HF and aprs
[08:07] <daveake> number10 It was just a flexible wire in a straw. It was fine after. Remember though this is a very light payload.
[08:08] <eroomde> oh sorry i am late the the party
[08:08] <eroomde> but pbh is looking pretty cool
[08:09] <eroomde> heading the wrong way
[08:09] <fsphil> wires in straw seem to be the most reliable
[08:09] <eroomde> what time is sunrise where it is, does anyone know?
[08:09] <UpuWork> its sunrise now
[08:09] <eroomde> fsphil: falsee!
[08:09] <UpuWork> 0700 UTC pstat received by F6AIU in France, PBH-18 air vehicle has seen sunrise and is at 42.122N 24.824W #PBHVI #ARHAB
[08:11] <eroomde> fsphil: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/set-72157624203062811
[08:11] <eroomde> this, unlike straws, is a bit better at recovering its shape from bashes
[08:12] <eroomde> designed after the 'you should be happy to throw it down the stairs' school of thought
[08:12] <daveake> That tube's about as heavy as my payload though :p
[08:12] <number10> cheers,
[08:12] <daveake> But yeah I'm going to add one to my larger payload for Saturday
[08:13] <eroomde> UpuWork: thanks
[08:13] <eroomde> yeah there are obviously plenty of exceptios
[08:13] <eroomde> lightness
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[08:13] <eroomde> things stuck out on booms for photographic purposes
[08:13] <eroomde> etc
[08:13] <daveake> yep
[08:14] <eroomde> i once wanted to enchase an entire payload, inc groundplane and antenna, inside a flourescent orage foam indoor football
[08:14] <eroomde> encase*
[08:14] <eroomde> never did but it seemed like a decent way to make it robust
[08:14] <daveake> nice idea :)
[08:15] <daveake> make it self-righting too :)
[08:15] <daveake> Well self-wronging if you want the aerial pointing up :)
[08:16] <eroomde> :)
[08:16] <eroomde> good for landing
[08:17] <daveake> Exactly. Aerial pointing down during flight, up after landing. Make sure your GPS antenna can see the sky in both orientations.
[08:17] <eroomde> on an early pegasus i remember it landed but we could hear it about 4km away with a car whip
[08:17] <eroomde> was v impressive
[08:18] <daveake> 4km wow
[08:18] <eroomde> and it's just cos it landed such that the netenna was upwards and radiating towards us
[08:18] <daveake> I've only managed 1-2km
[08:18] <eroomde> it was this one infact: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/sets/72157600160879866/
[08:18] <fsphil> I received my payload 10km after landing, but that's only cause it landed in a tree on a mountain
[08:18] <number10> still 1-2km is pretty good if the last telemetry string was 200-300m
[08:18] <daveake> Buzz1 the aerial (thin wire) was crumpled underneath and I was amazed we still picked it up about 1km away
[08:18] <eroomde> a younger looking jcoxon there
[08:19] <eroomde> without bald patch
[08:20] <daveake> :)
[08:20] <UpuWork> haha
[08:20] <daveake> It's so nice to see a bright parachute alone in a field at the end of a chase :)
[08:22] <eroomde> hell yeah
[08:22] <eroomde> that was a day like today
[08:22] <eroomde> still, bright, warm
[08:23] <eroomde> perfect
[08:24] <number10> should be nice and bright for CUSF tomorrow
[08:24] <fsphil> yea the weather now is ideal for launching
[08:24] <fsphil> it'll probably be snowing before I launch again
[08:24] <number10> need to see if I can get antenna on roof at work
[08:25] <daveake> T-4 days for UpuWork and me; hope this weather holds up
[08:25] <UpuWork> fingers crossed
[08:25] <daveake> woohoo ADSL back up :)
[08:25] <number10> do you have three trackers this weekend
[08:26] <daveake> Yes
[08:26] <number10> buzz ava and...
[08:26] <daveake> 2 under 1 balloon (AVA2 / CLOUD4) and 1 under the other (BUZZ4)
[08:26] <number10> need to buy another radio ;)
[08:27] <daveake> :)
[08:27] <eroomde> right bbl
[08:27] <daveake> I have 2 so I'll probably set both mine up in the car
[08:27] <UpuWork> I have one
[08:27] <UpuWork> we'll have enough to cover it
[08:28] <number10> presumably you have two or more pcs
[08:28] <UpuWork> I'm testing some software on Ava so could do with getting as much from that as possible especially around the burst point
[08:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomas Saraceno "Re: [UKHAS] Solar balloon volume query"
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[08:33] <UpuWork> and of course Buzz could do with watching around burst
[08:33] <UpuWork> no real reason ofc...
[08:33] <fsphil> any two of them within the funcube's bandpass? (80khz)
[08:33] <fsphil> it could record both
[08:34] <fsphil> if it bursts :)
[08:35] <x-f> PHB in Bulgaria already
[08:36] <radicalbiscuit> lol
[08:36] <x-f> somebody forgot the minus sign
[08:36] <radicalbiscuit> I saw that just now
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[08:36] <gonzo_> I have an sdr-iq on my radio. So I can do three chan's at a time. Though only within a 190khz bandwidth
[08:36] <fsphil> ah, forgot to turn my inverter off. HF is useless
[08:37] <UpuWork> so no one validating the data then :) missing a '-'
[08:37] <UpuWork> lost another 100meters
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[08:37] <fsphil> eek
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[08:38] <fsphil> it hasn't really ascended at all so far today?
[08:38] <UpuWork> no but it should start to rise soon
[08:38] <radicalbiscuit> nope
[08:39] <fsphil> I wonder if it will survive tomorrow night
[08:40] <UpuWork> its levelled off
[08:40] <fsphil> if it drops like it did last night there's no chance
[08:40] <UpuWork> be bouncing off the wave tops
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[08:40] <fsphil> yea
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[09:05] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
[09:07] <UpuWork> Based on 0840 UTC status, altitude has stablilized at 38k ft,appears autoballast did not function #PBHVI #ARHAB
[09:13] <fsphil> ooh
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[09:16] <UpuWork> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=5eb43be7cad20e395cafbcc7b3ba1a32acf53e48
[09:16] <UpuWork> going back home :/
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[09:30] <UpuWork> PBH-18 has begun its ascension for the day, thanks Paul (G4RRA), Paulo (CT2IWW), and Francis (F6AIU), keep them coming!
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[09:36] <moriarty> hey why are there strong electrical currents present in the region of high altitude jet streams?
[09:36] <moriarty> and what sort of precautions are typically taken for high alt projects that reaches these regions?
[09:38] <Darkside> i don't think any of us have had problems ith that
[09:38] <Darkside> with that*
[09:40] <moriarty> so i suppose conceivably no one's gone up that high then, say at sixty to sixty-five miles above Earth
[09:40] <Randomskk> you can't really get balloons up that high
[09:40] <Randomskk> I mean that's basically outer space (100km)
[09:40] <Randomskk> balloons will maybe do 40km
[09:41] <Randomskk> before you essentially run out of atmosphere to get lift from
[09:45] <moriarty> ah
[09:45] <moriarty> thanks :)
[09:46] <fsphil> you'd need a rocket to get that high
[09:48] <daveake> Buzz prepares for his "space walk" :p ... http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=424
[09:49] <moriarty> you're right, just looked up, the highest record for an unmanned balloon stands at 53 km
[09:49] <moriarty> was just wondering in conjunction with ATREX 5 launch which was pretty neat
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[09:54] <fsphil> that 53 km balloon cost millions :)
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[10:26] <daveake> Dammit. My FT790R has gone all sick :(
[10:26] <andrew_apex> daveake: what's wrong with it?
[10:26] <Randomskk> radio for a doctor!
[10:27] <jonsowman> doctor for a radio surely?
[10:27] <daveake> Drifting quicker than SHARP did yesterday!
[10:27] <Randomskk> radio for a radio doctor
[10:27] <andrew_apex> oi :P
[10:27] <jonsowman> lol
[10:27] <Randomskk> the new baseline :D
[10:27] <jonsowman> andrew_apex: can i clear sharp from the tracker at the end of today?
[10:27] <jonsowman> ready for X launches tomorrow. where X is many
[10:27] <andrew_apex> jonsowman: no problem
[10:27] <jonsowman> ta
[10:27] <daveake> Thought my transmitter was playing up, but I tried a different receiver and different transmitter and it's definitely the FT790
[10:28] <daveake> Same result on batteries or external power
[10:29] <andrew_apex> For anyone interested, the last packet I picked up from SHARP yesterday before got a call saying where it was was at 800m altitude - and I picked that up from 8 miles away :)
[10:30] <andrew_apex> and in fact it landed <100m from that location
[10:30] <daveake> It's not a simple temperature drift as it'll go one way then the other. Doesn't seem to be a dodgy contact either.
[10:30] <Randomskk> daveake: you say that but
[10:30] <Randomskk> https://github.com/adamgreig/wombat/raw/master/misc/temperature_compensation/freq_vs_temp.png
[10:31] <Randomskk> wombat, 30C to -5C
[10:31] <daveake> True, and the rfm22b has that characteristic too, but it turns around quite quickly
[10:32] <gonzo_> try it against a known stable source. Local repeater?
[10:32] <daveake> Well I'm using another receiver against the same transmitter and that's solid
[10:32] <Randomskk> daveake: do you have any details on the curve for the rfm22b?
[10:33] <daveake> No, sorry, not tested that. I do know the curve reversed. navrac may know more
[10:36] <Randomskk> oh well
[10:36] <Randomskk> I might try testing it in the other freezer
[10:36] <Randomskk> see if I can get some more data points
[10:36] <Randomskk> might get temperature compensation working by launch time
[10:36] <Randomskk> my only concern is that it will jump 150Hz when it compensates...
[10:36] <Randomskk> which might throw off dl-fldigi
[10:38] <Randomskk> actually 75Hz. might be okay
[10:38] <kokey> wow PBH went to bulgaria and back
[10:39] <kokey> they attached a small rocket powered lunar lander type device?
[10:39] <Randomskk> or someone forgot a - sign ;)
[10:39] <LazyLeopard> Heh ;)
[10:41] <navrac_> my name was mentioned - the rfm22b inversion is in a datasheet somewhere - I'll find it and post a link in a minute
[10:42] <navrac_> but the jump is a bit of a problem as the minimum freq step is a bit large - oh and dont try changing the crystal capacitance to tune it - much biggo jumps there
[10:43] <Randomskk> navrac_: different radio in this case
[10:43] <kokey> hmmm, was SHARP recovered?
[10:43] <kokey> last atitude is pretty high
[10:43] <Randomskk> navrac_: incidentally changing the crystal capacitance can work for tuning, down to like fractions of a hz :P
[10:44] <andrew_apex> kokey: yup - we got the last packet at 800m
[10:44] <kokey> it's not like it got to a mountain or something
[10:44] <andrew_apex> and then we got a phonecall from a member of the public
[10:44] <kokey> andrew_apex: ah, cool, I was wondering if it was going to be one of those things where you get a call months later
[10:44] <LazyLeopard> "'Ere! Your box hit my head!" ;)
[10:45] <fsphil> goodness, the price of stamps is going up big time. we should investigate that hab delivery service again :)
[10:45] <navrac_> not with trhe rfm22b - it jumped like a very jumpy thing when i tried the inbuilt capacitance register
[10:45] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: When?
[10:45] <Randomskk> navrac_: ah, probably large shifts
[10:45] <andrew_apex> LazyLeopard: more -your box is hanging off my phoneline!
[10:45] <kokey> fsphil: steerable parachute, is what I'd like to do
[10:46] <LazyLeopard> andrew_apex: Uh oh. Well, at least it wasn't on 11kV power again...
[10:46] <Randomskk> navrac_: if you put a varactor in the load path and drive it with a 16 bit DAC you can get pretty decent shifts ;D
[10:46] <navrac_> yes thats true
[10:46] <andrew_apex> LazyLeopard: :)
[10:47] <LazyLeopard> "'Ang on! We're just gonna cut the power for ten minutes during Corrie/Enders/Whatever..." ;)
[10:47] <zyp> I read varactor as velociraptor
[10:47] <andrew_apex> :D
[10:49] <mfa298> LazyLeopard: that sounds like a good time to cut the power ;)
[10:49] <fsphil> LazyLeopard, 30th april
[10:50] <andrew_apex> The first balloon we inflated yesterday was covered in what looked like white paint - any ideas? We sent up a different one instead7
[10:50] <andrew_apex> (okay, had blobs of what looked like paint over it might be more accurate)
[10:50] <andrew_apex> we thought it might be release agent from the mold or something
[10:50] <andrew_apex> the balloon was an 800g kaymont from Steve
[10:51] <Randomskk> probably talc
[10:51] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: Ah. A month or so to use up those old stamps then...
[10:51] <andrew_apex> it wouldn't brush off
[10:51] <Randomskk> probably just static electricity holding it on or something
[10:51] <Randomskk> they usually have a good bit of talcum powder or similar on them
[10:51] <Randomskk> some kind of white substance anyway
[10:52] <Randomskk> I assume talcum powder
[10:52] <Randomskk> could be crack for all I know
[10:52] <andrew_apex> it seemed more solid than the usual talk
[10:52] <andrew_apex> *talc
[10:52] Action: LazyLeopard has a bunch of QSLs from DXing in 5Z4 still to send...
[10:53] <LazyLeopard> talc that'd got damp or something like that?
[10:53] <andrew_apex> sealed bag :/
[10:53] <andrew_apex> I think we're planning to send back the balloon and see what Steve thinks
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[10:58] <kokey> andrew_apex: perhaps the latex was just very old
[10:58] <andrew_apex> we bought the balloons recently... no idea!
[10:58] <kokey> I think it goes powdery when it's ancient
[11:00] <LazyLeopard> mfa298: Yeah, I'd think so too, but it's surprising how many folk seem to disagree... ;)
[11:00] <kokey> but yeah, more likely that it's too much powder in the mold
[11:01] <daveake> So, erm, another FT790R (though none on ebay at the mo) Or Funcube Dongle?
[11:01] <kokey> I remember doing a tour through a hydroelectric power station and being shown a graph of how electricity demand spikes when there's an ad break during popular TV shows
[11:02] <kokey> I guess more channels and recording and catchup streaming has changed that
[11:02] <Randomskk> probably changed it less than you'd think though
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[11:02] <kokey> anyone use an MSP430 as a flight computer?
[11:05] <Laurenceb> pbh is being interesting
[11:05] <Laurenceb> have they actually dumped any ballast?
[11:05] <r2x0t> on twitter thay say it didn't worked
[11:07] <Laurenceb> so its been flying with no ballast drops?
[11:07] <Laurenceb> impressive
[11:07] <mfa298> I suspect there's still a lot of people sitting down to watch some of the big popular shows live.
[11:08] Action: mfa298 wonders how many people actually watch the extra channels.
[11:09] <r2x0t> PBH got caught in this on lower alts: http://62.89.145.4/charts/06_3_250mbjet.png?dt=812
[11:09] <r2x0t> but as it climbs up again, it should continue to the europe: http://nstar.org/GFS/10mb/10mb.012.png
[11:10] <Laurenceb> ah cool
[11:10] <Laurenceb> some decent wind at last
[11:10] <navrac_> daveake - depends where you live - its 20miles to my nearest town and i can run the funcube at 30db lna gain and 12db mixer gain at 432mhz - without getting flattened - but it isnt so good on 144mhz
[11:13] <daveake> Nearest town here is 10 miles, and it's a little bit hilly between there and here
[11:13] <daveake> Sounds worth a try
[11:14] <Laurenceb> funcube?! who needs that
[11:14] <Laurenceb> :P
[11:14] <daveake> Can you feed the audio into dl-fldigi ditally or does it need to go out of the sound card then back in again?
[11:14] Action: Laurenceb grabs a eztv666
[11:15] <fsphil> you can open the dongle directly in fldigi
[11:15] <daveake> Nice
[11:15] <fsphil> but the frequency you see on there will not be the centre frequency you set in qthid
[11:15] <fsphil> it'll be offset a bit
[11:15] <fsphil> so you might have to tune around a bit to get your signal
[11:16] <daveake> Mrs Dave walked in a few mins ago, having heard me moan about the ex-Yaesu, and said "Have you bought a new one yet?"
[11:16] <daveake> She knows me too well ....
[11:16] <gonzo_> doed lfdigi do the IQ maths?
[11:16] <daveake> fsphil ok ta
[11:16] <Laurenceb> fldigi supports funcube directly?
[11:16] <Laurenceb> epic
[11:17] <fsphil> not properly
[11:17] <fsphil> but it works :)
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[11:17] <SpeedEvil> daveake: Just ebay the old one, with 'should be an easy fix for anyone with a clue'.
[11:17] <fsphil> I don't know how sensitive it will be
[11:17] <daveake> Can it keep the funbcube tuned in, or is that not an issue with the wide bandwidth?
[11:17] <gonzo_> if it don't do the IQ stuff, it will be rxing the image too
[11:18] <fsphil> newer versions of hamlib can tune the funcube dongle, but I'm not sure the one provided with fldigi is new enough
[11:18] <fsphil> I've manually built one and it worked (with said frequency error)
[11:20] <gonzo_> what is the freq error phil?
[11:21] <fsphil> whatever way fldigi interprets the IQ data
[11:21] <fsphil> the 4khz on the waterfall that it sees is not near the tuned frequency
[11:21] <gonzo_> 21khz probably
[11:22] <gonzo_> my concern is if fldigi just uses the fcd as a sound card inoput, you will not get the IQ cancelling, so you will be seeing the tuned freq and the image. Which is not good on 434meg, as that meand more interference
[11:22] <UpuWork> is PBH climbing ?
[11:23] <gonzo_> I tried it with my V3.20.39 and it did seem to be using it as a sound card
[11:23] <gonzo_> (dunno if that's the latest release)
[11:25] <daveake> Funcube Pro ordered
[11:25] <daveake> The spend never stops :(
[11:25] <Laurenceb> whats the pro?
[11:25] <gonzo_> I do like the FCD's
[11:25] <Randomskk> daveake: don't make me point you at your own email :P
[11:25] <Laurenceb> daveake: *cough* eztv666
[11:26] <gonzo_> you should have gone for an ft817 whilst the missus wason your side
[11:26] <gonzo_> (and the FCD makes a very good sdr adaptor for the 817)
[11:27] <daveake> She's not that much on my side :p
[11:27] <gonzo_> hehe
[11:27] <daveake> Randomskk Yeah, I know ... :)
[11:27] <daveake> Laurenceb the minus Pro is frequency restricted
[11:28] <Laurenceb> what do you mean?
[11:28] <gonzo_> have they released those yet?
[11:28] <daveake> pass
[11:28] <gonzo_> just 2mtrs and 70cm ham bands from what they told me
[11:28] <UpuWork> ping navrac
[11:28] <daveake> They're just selling the Pro AFAIK
[11:28] <Laurenceb> *shrug*
[11:29] <Laurenceb> just use a dvbt dongle
[11:29] <daveake> too late now!
[11:29] <Laurenceb> fail
[11:29] <navrac_> hi upu
[11:30] <UpuWork> hey there just posted your bits, put in a PCB with a NCP1402 step up circuit solder too it already
[11:30] <navrac_> oh handy - thanks
[11:30] <r2x0t> pro FCD and non-pro FCD HW looks completely same
[11:30] <UpuWork> if its of use to you, the PCB doesn't work as I forgot to link the power to the GPS - doh but the stepup bit works fine
[11:30] <navrac_> saves me digging more bits out the carpet :-)
[11:30] <daveake> Yes FW change
[11:31] <r2x0t> so it should be possible to flash pro firmware into non-pro
[11:31] <daveake> Well they say no .....
[11:31] <r2x0t> obviously.....
[11:31] <daveake> :)
[11:31] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:31] <UpuWork> so don't try solder a GPS on the board won't work :)
[11:31] <navrac_> lol - no problem - my boards to gps ratio is currently matched!
[11:31] <r2x0t> it's probably some ID in eeprom or something like that
[11:34] <Matt_soton> what power loss do you get connecting a 75ohm load (dipole) to a 50ohm transmitte?
[11:35] <jonsowman> quite bad
[11:35] <Matt_soton> 3dB?
[11:35] <craag> That's only 1.5:1 SWR isn't it?
[11:35] <jonsowman> urgh i could work it out
[11:36] <craag> I get 0.18dB
[11:36] <Matt_soton> oh tahts it
[11:37] <craag> Using this: http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/calvswr.cfm
[11:38] <craag> With 1.5:1 SWR, mismatch loss is 0.18dB
[11:38] <Matt_soton> whats return loss?
[11:38] <Daviey> Matt_soton: Hey, Do you live nr southampton, by chance?
[11:38] <Matt_soton> well term time yea
[11:39] <craag> Return loss is the difference between forward and reflected power.
[11:39] <craag> So bigger is better!
[11:39] <Daviey> Matt_soton: Groovy, near there myself.
[11:39] <Matt_soton> :)
[11:40] <Matt_soton> so i need to ramp up the transmitter power by 0.18dBm?
[11:41] <craag> If you really really want that 10.00mW ERP then yes
[11:41] <Matt_soton> yea doesnt really seem worth the effort
[11:42] <craag> ~5%?
[11:42] <mfa298> although technically you probably want to ramp it up by 0.18dB (/pedantmode)
[11:42] <craag> true.
[11:43] <mfa298> Daviey: There's a few of us around the soton area.
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[11:43] <gonzo_> from mem, if you cant the ground plane wires down (well, up on a HAB) it brings the match closer to 50R (well ok, some complex value)
[11:43] <gonzo_> also it brings the radiation pattern up a bit (down in the HAB case)
[11:44] <andrew_apex> for a 1/4 wave whip, 42 degrees angle for radials = 50R match
[11:44] <jonsowman> yeah it should be purely real
[11:44] <Matt_soton> dipole|
[11:44] <Matt_soton> ?
[11:45] <gonzo_> for such a small mismatch it's not worth worrying about
[11:45] <gonzo_> the pattern is far more critical
[11:45] <craag> Matt_soton: What frequency is this for?
[11:45] <navrac_> agreed
[11:45] <Matt_soton> 27.12M
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[11:45] <craag> Big dipole :)
[11:46] <Matt_soton> not too bad
[11:46] <gonzo_> so question is, do you want the radiation out to the side, dipole like, for best sigs at low alt, or bring it down towards the earth (and take some of the null out in the downwards direction) for best sigs in the air
[11:47] <gonzo_> Ah, OK, I was assuming 434!
[11:47] <Matt_soton> well theres not much i can do really
[11:47] <Matt_soton> cant suspend wires out at 45 degrees :P
[11:47] <gonzo_> only 18ft, that's not big
[11:47] <Darkside> thats nothing
[11:47] <mfa298> intitial question might be more which orientation is it goign to be used in (and probably for what purpose)
[11:47] <jonsowman> launching it would be fun
[11:47] <Darkside> i've flown a 40m dipole before..
[11:47] <Darkside> 20m long
[11:48] <Darkside> was a nice long balloon train
[11:48] <daveake> My flight on Saturday flew directly above us (well, within 150m horizontally) and at 6km altitude. The null saw the s/n fall to 1db but still decoding.
[11:48] <gonzo_> go VLF and you could teather it at one end and still have good alt at the baloon!
[11:48] <Darkside> gonzo_: haha
[11:48] <Darkside> well i know of people that do verticals on 160m, using a tethered balloon
[11:48] <daveake> So personally I don't think the null is worth worrying about
[11:49] <mfa298> I was thinkign a tethered balloon could be good for 160m
[11:49] <gonzo_> Yep I agree, the sigs at low alt are more critical
[11:49] <gonzo_> have seen kite ant attempts
[11:50] <Matt_soton> dont have a 27M antenna for the car anyway
[11:50] <gonzo_> not successful, but that was because of lack of kite experience
[11:50] <Daviey> mfa298: Are there any meetups?
[11:51] <mfa298> 27Mhz antenna shouldn't be hard to get. that's pretty much CB land.
[11:51] <mfa298> or is that a 27m band (so around 10MHz)
[11:51] <Matt_soton> relying somewhat one other people listening on 27MHz tomorrow
[11:52] <craag> Ah cool, I might have to dig out the FT-101 :)
[11:52] <Matt_soton> :) thanks
[11:53] <mfa298> Daviey: I'm not sure there have been any meetups as such. I think a few of us know each other through various things (a lot of us are Uni people in various forms)
[11:53] <Randomskk> Matt_soton: might be worth emailing the list again in reply to jon's email to plead :P
[11:53] <Matt_soton> heh
[11:54] <Randomskk> also do you have anything that'l plug into the icom for rx or shall we try and dig out a pl259 or whatever to solder some wire to?
[11:54] <Matt_soton> still havnt got the astra payload yet
[11:54] <Randomskk> actually I might still have one I made earlier
[11:54] <Daviey> mfa298: Ok, cool. If there is a launch or meetup happening at any point, i would be interested.
[11:56] <mfa298> Matt_soton: if you want something to try out mobile I might be able to lend you a magmount CB antenna. Can't promise how well it will work but gives an option to test.
[11:56] <Matt_soton> how bad would a 2m/70cm whip be at 10m?
[11:56] <r2x0t> too short
[11:56] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: where are you based?
[11:56] <jonsowman> oops
[11:56] <jonsowman> * mfa298
[11:57] <mfa298> I did recieve australia on a 2/70cm whip on 20m back in september - but that was probably more luck than anything.
[11:57] <Matt_soton> tbh mfa298 you might as well listen yourself if you have a radio
[11:57] <Matt_soton> we'll be under the void
[11:57] <Matt_soton> null even
[11:57] <Matt_soton> whatever that point on the radiation pattern is called
[11:58] <mfa298> if it's daytime my listing ability is limited - and I've got random bits of wire and antenna tunner if I wanted to rig something.
[11:58] <jonsowman> HF will be flying about 3pm
[11:59] <jonsowman> maybe 2 if things go to plan
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[11:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.optiphase.com/papers/low_cost_sensors.html
[11:59] <Laurenceb> interesting
[11:59] <Randomskk> depends
[11:59] <Randomskk> the launch team could go to CUED with a random wire and drop it off the roof
[11:59] <Randomskk> might be enough
[12:00] <gonzo_> a V/U antenna may well have matching coils etc ijn it, that coukld just look like a short at 11mtrs
[12:01] <craag> A 5/8 VHF wouldn't be too bad for rx if you have one lying around.
[12:02] <jonsowman> Randomskk: someone needs to stay at chu with the kit
[12:03] <jonsowman> esp flow meter
[12:03] <Randomskk> HF is launching last
[12:03] <Randomskk> though I guess we can't get it back ourselves
[12:03] <Randomskk> :|
[12:03] <Randomskk> maybe moller centre
[12:03] <jonsowman> moller would be great
[12:03] <jonsowman> the spiky building
[12:03] <Randomskk> unlikely though
[12:03] <Randomskk> hmm
[12:03] <Matt_soton> do you need the flow meter?
[12:03] <jonsowman> they let liz go up there for aether
[12:03] <Matt_soton> or is this so we fill correectly?
[12:04] <jonsowman> i dont see why they'd mind
[12:04] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: not 'need', but it makes filling so happy
[12:04] <jonsowman> none of this measuring neck lift rubbish
[12:04] <jonsowman> :)
[12:04] <daveake> :)
[12:05] <jonsowman> though it looks to be quite calm on the ground tomorrow
[12:05] <jonsowman> so filling should be quite easy
[12:06] <Matt_soton> the 3pm launch is a bit close to the sea mind you
[12:06] <jonsowman> we'll try and get it done earlier
[12:07] <jonsowman> also we can overfill a little
[12:07] <Randomskk> depending on how many trackers there are and how our own tracking is going
[12:07] <Randomskk> we could launch nova22 more shortly after 21
[12:07] <Randomskk> though ideally only launch 22 after 21 is recovered
[12:07] <Randomskk> as dunno how long recovery will actually take
[12:08] <jonsowman> yeah we can shorten the gap between them
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[12:08] <jonsowman> we'll see how things go
[12:09] <daveake> My sea landing ... correction, my *first* sea landing, happened when I underfilled because of strong winds at the launch site
[12:09] <jonsowman> yeah that's all too easy
[12:09] <jonsowman> flow meter makes that problem go away
[12:09] <daveake> Once I let go I looked at it and said "too slow"
[12:09] <jonsowman> yeah
[12:09] <jonsowman> it's obvious as soon as you release
[12:09] <jonsowman> :)
[12:09] <daveake> How accurate is the flow meter?
[12:10] <jonsowman> very
[12:10] <daveake> and cost?
[12:10] <jonsowman> several thousand
[12:10] <daveake> thanks
[12:10] <jonsowman> £3-4k i think?
[12:10] <Randomskk> 4k approx
[12:10] <Darkside> jeez
[12:10] <Randomskk> plus more for filter and stuff
[12:10] <jonsowman> it's on permanent loan, it's not technically ours
[12:10] <daveake> I'll stick with the neck lift then :D
[12:10] <Randomskk> yay sponsors, basically
[12:10] <Randomskk> in theory it can do hydrogen too
[12:10] <Randomskk> but isn't currently calibrated for that
[12:11] <Randomskk> we should talk to them about it one day
[12:11] <Randomskk> it also weighs so much
[12:11] <daveake> I've used flow meters for shifting liquids around but not gasses
[12:11] <jonsowman> it's a hot wire sensor
[12:11] <daveake> s/for/when
[12:11] <jonsowman> basically a MAF sensor from a car aiui
[12:11] <daveake> Understood
[12:11] <daveake> Which suggests a cheaper version :)
[12:11] <jonsowman> well i was thinking that
[12:11] <daveake> But then there's the calibration
[12:12] <jonsowman> this thing is stupidly accurate and calibrated
[12:12] <jonsowman> but really you don't need that
[12:12] <Randomskk> also it's a bit..
[12:12] <Randomskk> it has a lot of clever things to make flow very linear
[12:12] <Randomskk> then it diverts some of it through the hot wire
[12:12] <Randomskk> and keeps the bulk flow unchanged
[12:12] <daveake> No, within a few percent would be enough I guess
[12:12] <jonsowman> yeah
[12:12] <daveake> clever stuff
[12:12] <Randomskk> then compares temperatures and things
[12:12] <Randomskk> it's neat
[12:12] <Randomskk> I should put photos up actually
[12:13] <jonsowman> automotive MAFs have to deal with lots of airflow
[12:13] <jonsowman> i bet you could build a He flow meter using one
[12:13] <jonsowman> that'd be a fun project
[12:14] <jonsowman> if you can get a maf with the current sourcing kit integrated that would be the hard bit done
[12:14] <eroomde> within a few percent accurate?
[12:15] <eroomde> borderline
[12:15] <eroomde> i would have thought
[12:15] <jonsowman> eroomde: getting that accuracy from a MAF sensor?
[12:15] <eroomde> sorry to be specific - that to be accurate within a few percent is good enough might be borderline as an assumption
[12:15] <jonsowman> or that that is the required accuracy?
[12:15] <jonsowman> oh ok
[12:15] <daveake> eroomde True - didn't have time to go check that one :)
[12:16] <eroomde> if you want to get 100g free lift on a 2kg balloon with a 1kg payload, that's requires an accuracy of about 3%
[12:16] <eroomde> so if it's only good to +/- 3% say, you could easily find yourself being nagtive
[12:16] <daveake> Sure, but that's not your average flight. And 3% could be "a few" :p
[12:16] <daveake> But yeah, needs to be tighter
[12:16] <eroomde> and the ascent velocties seem very sensitive to variations in neckl lift when at low absolute lifts
[12:17] <jonsowman> that's definitely true
[12:17] <eroomde> i think the strength of a flow meter comes with the flights like that. when you want 1kg of free lift well then who cars, just attach a sack of sugar to the neck and get to about neutral
[12:17] <eroomde> cares*
[12:18] <jonsowman> even that's sometimes difficult if it's windy
[12:18] <jonsowman> but point taken
[12:18] <daveake> Indeed
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[12:24] <GW8RAK> Just wondering if anyone on here has gone through the process of selecting a relay for HF?
[12:25] <GW8RAK> Need something which will aerial contacts on a 30W PA.
[12:25] <GW8RAK> RF relays exist, but most seem to be "standard" pcb mounting ones.
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[12:30] <r2x0t> there are power antenna relays
[12:30] <r2x0t> but expect to pay premium for them
[12:30] <GW8RAK> Trying to be cheap.
[12:30] <Matt_soton> diode based switching?
[12:30] <r2x0t> diodes for 30W ?
[12:30] <r2x0t> nope
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[12:32] <gonzo_> at HF you can get away with standard relays
[12:32] <gonzo_> even VHF you can if you chose carefully
[12:32] <GW8RAK> That was my thought, but looking at spec. sheets, there's no mention of upper frequency limits.
[12:33] <GW8RAK> Although there are insertion losses at 10MHz, so presumably they are okay to that frequency
[12:33] <gonzo_> just a bit of common sense over the shape of the contacts etc, it not ones that snake around to form the spring
[12:34] <GW8RAK> I've got some 24V ones, but need 5 or 12V for the amp.
[12:35] <GW8RAK> Will see what is available on ebay and what other people are using
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[12:35] <gonzo_> just about top say, ebay. I've brought bags of surplus ones on there
[12:36] <GW8RAK> I've always collected coax ones at junk sales, but don't really want to use a 10GHz one at 14MHz.
[12:37] <gonzo_> the simple relays are usually used on HF, seen them on 25W 2mtr sets frequently
[12:39] <Matt_soton> yea, if you look at the block diagram for the icom 7000 (for example) there are relays in the transmit path after the PA
[12:40] <Randomskk> you can hear 'em clicking
[12:41] <GW8RAK> Was playing with a single MOSFET PA and it works well enough to box it up and make it a full project
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[12:42] <Darkside> Matt_soton: oh, you have a IC-7000 too? :P
[12:43] <Matt_soton> no i have the service manual in front of me :P
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[12:45] <Darkside> Matt_soton: heh
[12:45] <Darkside> note the AD Blackfins in it!
[12:45] <Darkside> :D
[12:45] <UpuWork> PBH-18 has been receiving partial telemetries and it appears that we are at least 60k ft in altitude, awaiting a full message
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[13:15] <domlin> hi there
[13:15] <eroomde> hi domlin
[13:16] <domlin> looking to launch a balloon soon, and i'm just wondering what sort of radio equipment should i be looking to use for a simple location beacon?
[13:17] <UpuWork> afternoon domlin
[13:18] <UpuWork> UK based ?
[13:18] <domlin> yes indeed
[13:18] <UpuWork> options are fairly limited due to our wonderful laws
[13:19] <UpuWork> but something that can transmit in the 70cms (434Mhz) license exempt band
[13:19] <UpuWork> max power = 10mW
[13:19] <domlin> Ah okay i've experimented with that sort of frequency before, but only short range...
[13:20] <UpuWork> well LoS so you can get some great ranges
[13:20] <UpuWork> 760km is the record
[13:20] <UpuWork> what did you use before ?
[13:21] <domlin> I had a small hobby 433 mhz transmitter/reciever from ebay that I was sending data across
[13:21] <UpuWork> oh ok well generally people use the Radiometrix NTX2 module but the RFM22B is being used more often now
[13:21] <UpuWork> well often isn't the right word
[13:22] <Randomskk> the NTX2 is a pretty safe and easy bet
[13:22] <UpuWork> NTX2 is probably easier to get going with
[13:22] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[13:23] <UpuWork> the biggie though is you will need some sort of reciever for these
[13:23] <domlin> ok thanks... and ah good i use arduinos a lot
[13:23] <domlin> yeah that's my other query, what sort of equipment will i need to get anywhere near the range that i require?
[13:23] <UpuWork> and the corresponding reciever the NRX2 isn't sensitive enough so you will need a HAM radio or something that can recieve SSB
[13:24] <UpuWork> you take that example and hang it from a balloon at 30km you'll get 700km+ on a good day
[13:24] <UpuWork> do you have access to a radio amateur rig ?
[13:27] <domlin> unfortunately not... i was going to speak to some people at the chelmsford amateur radio society
[13:27] <UpuWork> good bet
[13:28] <domlin> okay thanks
[13:28] <UpuWork> well best advice I can give is lurk here, ask questions use the Wiki (http://ukhas.org.uk)
[13:28] <UpuWork> there is a launch tommorrow and on Saturday so worth hanging about to see what goes on
[13:29] <domlin> also just a quick question... i have a 200 gram weather balloon, how much payload weight could i have with 95% helium
[13:29] <UpuWork> http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/.
[13:29] <domlin> i calculated it to about 3.2 kg of lift but no idea if this is right
[13:30] <UpuWork> say a 750g payload, 5m/s ascent you'd get 15km
[13:30] <Randomskk> though beware, that calculator assumes 100% helium
[13:31] <Randomskk> you can change the gas density on the constants box to account for 95%
[13:31] <Randomskk> or just knock a little bit off your burst altitude
[13:31] <UpuWork> PBH went up a smidge
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[13:32] <domlin> oo that calculator will be handy, i wrote one myself in php but its not as accurate as this :)
[13:32] <UpuWork> Tools are here : http://habhub.org/
[13:33] <Randomskk> http://habhub.org/predict will entertain you if you haven't seen it before
[13:33] <UpuWork> lol
[13:34] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=dc14a40933896b4fcb00a32dccf8425e5d23e837
[13:34] <jonsowman> tres bien
[13:35] <UpuWork> thats a good one, I'll be listening
[13:35] <jonsowman> weird path
[13:35] <jonsowman> thanks UpuWork
[13:36] <domlin> wow thanks fantastic!
[13:36] <domlin> how accurate is this?
[13:36] <Randomskk> some miles. we should really get stats
[13:36] <Randomskk> it depends, basically
[13:36] <Randomskk> mostly it depends on how accurate your inputs are
[13:36] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/tmKX9.jpg
[13:36] <Darkside> urgh
[13:36] <Randomskk> people can't usually fill to the precise volume of helium they expect
[13:36] <jonsowman> and if you fill carefully
[13:36] <Randomskk> and payload masses vary
[13:36] <Randomskk> if you are dead on with your payload mass and fill volume, it's usually pretty good. also, it gets better the closer to launch you run it
[13:36] <UpuWork> looks fun Darkside
[13:36] <Randomskk> a week ahead and it could be totally out
[13:37] <Darkside> UpuWork: sure is
[13:37] <UpuWork> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4351c567cc4d328eedd040bb9e296460f23d8a95
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[13:37] <UpuWork> thats Saturday
[13:37] <jonsowman> you can expect ~5km if you're careful with parameters and filling domlin
[13:37] <Darkside> what sucks is you go though all that, to find the JFET we're using varies a shitload between components
[13:37] <jonsowman> UpuWork: looks great
[13:37] <Randomskk> Darkside: that's what feedback is for :P
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[13:38] <Randomskk> UpuWork: ooh, all really close to me, hopefully I'll be able to track :P
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[13:38] <domlin> oo bishops stortford is quite close to me, will get some binoculars out :P
[13:38] <jonsowman> domlin: where are you based?
[13:39] <UpuWork> the live tracker is here domlin : http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[13:39] <domlin> Just outside of Chelmsford, Esses jonsowman
[13:39] <domlin> essex*
[13:39] <UpuWork> there is currently a launch from yesterday on there and PBH which is currently not crossing the Atlantic very well
[13:39] <UpuWork> ignore the suprious data point
[13:40] <domlin> ah wow
[13:41] <jonsowman> domlin: ah ok
[13:41] <jonsowman> i was going to say you could come see the launch tomorrow in cambridge
[13:41] <jonsowman> but that's a bit of a trek from chelmsford
[13:42] <domlin> it's not tooo far
[13:42] <jonsowman> well if you'd like to, you're very welcome
[13:42] <domlin> but bishops stortford for the landing is very close
[13:42] <UpuWork> i would recommend you go to a launch if you get the chance
[13:43] <jonsowman> we'll be launching one at about 11-12 another around 2-3
[13:43] <Randomskk> you'll even get to help out ;)
[13:43] <daveake_> Agreed. So your first launch is a bit less of a panic :)
[13:43] <jonsowman> yeah we could use more hands tomorrow actually
[13:44] <Randomskk> (equally, when/if you do launch your own, you can probably use our launch site at cambridge - we have a rolling launch permission so you don't have to sort that out)
[13:45] <domlin> that sounds fantastic!
[13:45] <domlin> i definitely came to the right place, i didn't realise that there was such a fantastic community for stuff like this
[13:45] <jonsowman> domlin: we launch from Churchill College in cambridge. if you do want to come, just let myself or Randomskk know
[13:46] <jonsowman> we're both always on this IRC channel
[13:46] <domlin> talk to you soon i think its latelunch time, will be back in 10 minutes~
[13:46] <domlin> brilliant thanks :)
[13:46] <Randomskk> always
[13:46] <Randomskk> we neveeeer leave :|
[13:46] <UpuWork> if they aren't here be afraid something bad has happened
[13:47] <jonsowman> haha
[13:47] <Randomskk> e.g. finally sleeping
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[13:51] <navrac_> on the 3v3 mini pro anyone remember what the regulator is - i want to look at the datasheet for it
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[13:52] <domlin> hey guys i'm back
[13:52] <UpuWork> wb
[13:52] <jonsowman> hi
[13:53] <daveake_> navrac_ I'll check .. what do you want to know about it?
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[13:53] <domlin> just had a thought... if it's the reciever that does all the work with the 70cm band tracking, would my cheapo transmitter have any fighting chance? or am i better off with NTX2?
[13:53] <navrac_> mic5205 i think just looked on the sparkfun site
[13:53] <jonsowman> domlin: firstly, is it FM?
[13:53] <UpuWork> what is your transmitter domlin ?
[13:53] <daveake_> Sounds familiar
[13:53] <UpuWork> You can get a NTX2 for £10 ish
[13:54] <navrac_> wondered how much dropout there is on it
[13:54] <daveake_> Very little
[13:54] <UpuWork> Oh btw : http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10999
[13:54] <daveake_> I've seen the board run from just over 2.8V into the reg
[13:54] <UpuWork> if you "do" arduino that's perfect
[13:54] <daveake_> But usually you need 3.1V
[13:55] <Darkside> UpuWork: uh god, be careful
[13:55] <Darkside> oh god*
[13:55] <navrac_> hmm 17mV - 160mV according to load
[13:55] <Darkside> the arduino leo bootloader is still buggy
[13:55] <UpuWork> yeah it says on the site
[13:56] <Darkside> i can't do serial comms via the usb interface on my leostick
[13:56] <daveake_> navrac Max load (excluding power disspiation) is 300mA and I guess you're around 50mA or less, so I'm guessing around 50mV loss
[13:56] <domlin> sorry guys just finding out exactly what one i have]
[13:56] <Darkside> (which is basically the same as that board)
[13:56] <daveake_> It's a sweet little linear reg
[13:56] <UpuWork> hopefully it'll get more stable
[13:56] <Darkside> UpuWork: yeah, i bloody hope so
[13:58] <navrac_> just pondering things - 3V is ok to the cpu and all the other chips (rfm/ublox) if fed into the 3v3 input of the mini
[13:58] <domlin> jonsowman: it doesnt say if its FM or not... says Modulation mode: ASK /OOK
[13:58] <jonsowman> yeah that's AM
[13:58] <navrac_> amplitude shift keying/on off keying
[13:59] <navrac_> so it get louder and quieter rather than changing frequency
[13:59] <jonsowman> information is encoded in amplitude rather than frequency
[13:59] <jonsowman> yes, what navrac_ said :)
[13:59] <domlin> aha i see... so is that good or bad? :P
[13:59] <daveake_> navrac_ I tested an rfm22b / pro / DS18B20 / BMP085. The DS18B20 dropped out first
[13:59] <jonsowman> if you want to use the decoder that we use, you'll need an FM transmitter
[13:59] <BrainDamage> AM is more sensitive to noise
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[13:59] <daveake_> Now if I could find my notes I'd tell you what voltages :)
[13:59] <jonsowman> such as the NTX2 from Radiometrix
[14:00] <domlin> Okay... i think i'm gonna buy an NTX2 then :)
[14:00] <Randomskk> probably easiest
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[14:00] <navrac_> paging upu - man needs a cheap ntx2
[14:00] <jonsowman> they're pretty cheap and very, very, veeery well proven
[14:00] <daveake_> Speak to UpuWork
[14:00] <Randomskk> there are ways you could use what you have, but.. it'd be messy and not as good
[14:00] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=62_63
[14:01] <UpuWork> and you have a PM
[14:01] <UpuWork> information overload :)
[14:01] <jonsowman> haha
[14:02] <UpuWork> and get an 075 module :)
[14:02] <navrac_> were you parasitic powering the DS18 or giving it a hard supply?
[14:02] <daveake_> hard. don't trust parasitic
[14:03] <navrac_> yep it says 3.0v
[14:03] <navrac_> Its going to have to learn to like less or gtfo
[14:04] <daveake_> :)
[14:04] <jonsowman> haha
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[14:08] <navrac_> pity I was interested to see how the temperature changed overnight.
[14:08] <x-f> PHB: "The ballast mechanism has been released from the payload after detecting a hardware failure. We are again climbing in altitude. (3/27/2012 @ 17:05)"
[14:09] <UpuWork> interesting
[14:09] <navrac_> next question - has anyone ever tried trickle charging an old energiser lithium. - just a tiny ickle charge?
[14:09] <x-f> instead of dropping the ballast, they dropped the whole ballast mechanism
[14:09] <navrac_> lol - thats how i read it too
[14:10] <UpuWork> that was by design
[14:10] <UpuWork> the ballast was suspended under the main payload with a cut away
[14:10] <navrac_> thats thinking ahead
[14:10] <UpuWork> these guys are very professional
[14:10] <x-f> very professional "amateurs"
[14:11] <UpuWork> stretching the amateur part tbh :)
[14:11] <domlin> jonsowman: i definitely need to launch from cambridge, i did the habhub predictor and if i launch from chelmsford its going to land somewhere in franch :(
[14:11] <navrac_> i was wondering if they now have dumped all the ballast+ the dispenser is the balloon going to go so hi it effectivly dumps all it helium
[14:11] <UpuWork> https://twitter.com/#!/PBHVI/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FynY9tx8g
[14:11] <Randomskk> domlin: it does change quite a lot day to day
[14:11] <UpuWork> its ok domlin we have some friendly french people who would love to go collect a payload
[14:12] <domlin> oo very nice :P
[14:12] <UpuWork> http://www.veryamateur.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/m95/m95_m96_3.jpg slightly off topic but a photo my friend took of M95 super nova
[14:13] <domlin> wow
[14:14] <domlin> i watched a program about telescopes last night
[14:17] <jonsowman> domlin: you're very welcome to launch from cambridge
[14:19] <domlin> thank you very much... could i take an email or something, or should i just pop back on here at some point in the near future? :)
[14:19] <Randomskk> contact@cusf.co.uk is probably best
[14:19] <Randomskk> which is the same address to email if you want to turn up tomorrow, any time you want really
[14:20] <Randomskk> launch at 11-12 and 2-3 so if you want to rock up for a bit feel free, no particular advance notice required
[14:21] <jonsowman> perhaps take a phone number for one of us if you're planning on perhaps attending
[14:22] <jonsowman> so we can let you know where to go/park etc
[14:22] <domlin> okay im just looking about how far a drive it would be :) would be fantastic to come and see the launch...
[14:24] <jonsowman> we're also normally on 145.350MHz amateur if you have a license/radio
[14:29] <jonsowman> even if all you'll mainly hear is "where's the duct tape?" "thanks" "gaffa tape?" "ta"
[14:29] <jonsowman> etc
[14:29] <domlin> ha brilliant, i dont have a radio unfortunately :(
[14:33] <navrac_> ah they commanded a dump ballast mechanism rather than it doing it automatically
[14:33] <UpuWork> A special thanks to CR8ABA and LB2TB for executing commands for us. #PBHVI #ARHAB
[14:33] <UpuWork> intresting
[14:35] <domlin> im off now guys, thanks very much for all the help will speak to you soon
[14:35] <jonsowman> see you
[14:35] <jonsowman> :)
[14:36] <r2x0t> hope PBH climbs quickly, because otherwise it may end over Iceland instead of Europe
[14:36] <UpuWork> not entirely sure it will last the night
[14:37] <gonzo_> I did wonder if it would be poss to fly a rx on the aprs freq and look for command strings. To send, just poke a command in to the nearest aprs node
[14:37] <gonzo_> though poss probs having a hab see'ng 100's of nodes
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[14:38] <daveake_> navrac_ If you google a bit there's a NASA paper on trickle-charging LiFe Lithiums
[14:38] <Darkside> gonzo_: thats one of the things we're working on
[14:38] <Darkside> a tiny aprs tracker
[14:38] Nick change: upix` -> upix
[14:38] <Darkside> i mean, a tiny aprs digipeater
[14:38] <daveake_> Think they were testing to see if they blew up :)
[14:38] <Darkside> that we can uplink to
[14:38] <upix> hello guys
[14:38] <Darkside> damn, 1am here
[14:38] <Darkside> nn
[14:39] <gonzo_> I was thinking of passivly monotoring
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[14:39] <daveake_> domlin As least 2 of us here have dropped payloads in Belgium and had them returned to us by enthusiasts there
[14:41] <navrac_> yep daveake_ looks like you can recharge them a bit as long as they arent completely discharged - probably 5km up is a good place to try the technology
[14:41] <daveake_> :)
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[14:42] <daveake_> It seemed to me that if all you were doing was running the payload from solar cells, with LiFe cells as backup, and at some times the cells would charge the cells at < about 50mA or so, then you'd be fine. Especially if the payload is a long way away :)
[14:43] <daveake_> too many cells there
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[15:06] <NigelMoby> ping daveake_
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[15:07] <daveake_> pong
[15:07] <edmoore> Pang
[15:07] <NigelMoby> hey, what was ure payload weight for buzz?
[15:07] <NigelMoby> hey ed
[15:07] <daveake_> 42g
[15:08] <NigelMoby> okies Ty
[15:08] <NigelMoby> Picochu should be up Thursday
[15:08] <NigelMoby> waiting for the ok from the port authority.
[15:09] <daveake_> :)
[15:09] <navrac_> daveake_ yep I was thinking more like 10mA charge for 10 hours - not a huge amount but a gentle trickle
[15:09] <NigelMoby> headed straight over the bristol channel slightly east.
[15:10] <daveake_> NigelMoby I assume no trees at the launch site :p
[15:11] <daveake_> navrac_ Yeah sounds fine doesn't it
[15:11] <NigelMoby> hah nothing in the way other than ocean, literally launching on the bank of the channel. should have lis until it hits land the other side.
[15:11] <navrac_> well if it goes wrong i can write it off as an 'uncommanded cutdown'
[15:11] <daveake_> lol
[15:11] <NigelMoby> los*
[15:12] <NigelMoby> gonna need trackers around the west country though.
[15:12] <daveake_> woohoo dave goes crc16
[15:12] <edmoore> An uncommanded cutdown
[15:12] <edmoore> That needs a nickname
[15:13] <edmoore> A Southampton cutdown. Like a Glasgow kiss
[15:13] <NigelMoby> lol
[15:13] <daveake_> lol
[15:13] <navrac_> cruel... lol
[15:13] <edmoore> Everyone in hab needs a fail in their honor
[15:13] <edmoore> Like the coxon kilometre
[15:13] <NigelMoby> mines an alt record of 869m ... lol
[15:14] Action: daveake_ looks at tree
[15:14] <edmoore> An Akeman field
[15:14] Action: daveake_ decides not to take thep*** too much :)
[15:14] <NigelMoby> is it still in the tree do u know?
[15:14] <daveake_> Well the next road to here is Ash Close
[15:14] <daveake_> I'll go take a look later
[15:14] <NigelMoby> :)
[15:15] <Upu> no Dave what you are doing is standing on hill in a thunderstorm wearing copper pants shouting all gods are bastards*, don't do it :)
[15:15] <Upu> * Terry Pratchett
[15:15] <NigelMoby> pmsl
[15:15] <daveake_> LOL
[15:15] <daveake_> That'd brass them off
[15:16] <NigelMoby> oh yes, and apparently lightning is painful :)
[15:17] <edmoore> I've lost two balloons during fill before
[15:17] <edmoore> Maybe that can be an eroomde payload
[15:17] <edmoore> (ie nothing)
[15:17] <daveake_> :)
[15:17] <NigelMoby> awww
[15:18] <daveake_> Is someone keeping a list of these now? :p
[15:18] <edmoore> There should be a hab jargon file
[15:18] <NigelMoby> can be arranged...lol
[15:18] <edmoore> We just need a short vicious deranged and conceited man to curate it
[15:19] <NigelMoby> I'm 6ft .. rules me out :)
[15:20] <edmoore> Hrm
[15:31] <fsphil> pbh still on the go?
[15:31] <UpuWork> yeah going the wrong way
[15:31] <NigelMoby> eek where's it headed?
[15:33] <UpuWork> back whenst it came sort its going to go round in circles I think
[15:33] <NigelMoby> oh eck, boomerang style :/
[15:33] <edmoore> Irony
[15:34] <NigelMoby> heh
[15:34] <UpuWork> interesting HopeRF came back to me with a price for some RFM22B modules
[15:34] <edmoore> They at least might be able to reuse that envelope
[15:34] <edmoore> They are not cheap
[15:34] <NigelMoby> oh, good price upu?
[15:34] <UpuWork> they won't get it back edmoore its going to end up in the sea
[15:35] <UpuWork> err yeah not bad I think
[15:35] <UpuWork> will have to buy a few
[15:35] <NigelMoby> eek
[15:36] <UpuWork> jsut no idea what customs will shaft me for
[15:36] <UpuWork> which makes pricing them annoying
[15:36] <NigelMoby> yeah that's gonna be a big pain.
[15:36] <NigelMoby> no UK distributor?
[15:37] <edmoore> Mr UpuWork
[15:38] <UpuWork> Cheaper than sparkfun
[15:38] <edmoore> Is weather is orgasmic
[15:38] <Randomskk> yes eroomde
[15:38] <edmoore> This*
[15:38] <Randomskk> I just had a pleasant walk to town
[15:38] <Randomskk> it's really nice
[15:38] <UpuWork> its very nice
[15:38] <UpuWork> I'm looking forward to Saturday
[15:38] <r2x0t> hmm, PBH twitter:
[15:38] <r2x0t> PBH-18 has been in flight for 83 hrs 12 mins and is heading for the Z-NAT, the team is now attempting to abort the payload!
[15:38] <UpuWork> Z-NAT ?
[15:38] <NigelMoby> abort abort!
[15:38] <edmoore> I am on bus to London
[15:38] <edmoore> Znat?
[15:39] <r2x0t> dunno
[15:39] <kokey> I can't computer/laptop on a bus
[15:39] <NigelMoby> air traffic route maybe?
[15:39] <r2x0t> probably
[15:39] <kokey> but I should try travel sickness tablets for that
[15:39] <r2x0t> but why abort?
[15:39] <r2x0t> it's above flight levels
[15:39] <edmoore> kokey: iPad in my case. I like it
[15:39] <edmoore> Have a nice conference table
[15:40] <NigelMoby> prolly don't want it in the TA airspace
[15:40] <edmoore> It's more like a train carriage
[15:40] <kokey> edmoore: still doesn't help for the motion sickness for me
[15:40] <kokey> don't have that problem on the train, except for the virgin tilting trains
[15:40] <edmoore> Oh yes. No escaping that
[15:40] <r2x0t> just now:
[15:40] <r2x0t> All HAMs please listen in on 30m HF for final location as we descend from controlled flight termination of PBH-18
[15:41] <edmoore> Have they triggered it?
[15:41] <r2x0t> probably will soon
[15:41] <r2x0t> or it's already triggered and it's timed
[15:41] <kokey> dopping it in the ocean?
[15:41] <kokey> dropping
[15:41] <r2x0t> either way it sucks
[15:43] <edmoore> For the fish as much as anything
[15:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Curtis "[UKHAS] Re: Lens in Payload hole or just a hole?"
[15:49] <UpuWork> PBH terminated
[15:49] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Lens in Payload hole or just a hole?"
[15:49] <UpuWork> -83.4 m/s :o)
[15:50] <Randomskk> aww
[15:51] <priyesh> :(
[15:51] <daveake_> 186mph. Not bad
[15:51] <edmoore> Good show though
[15:51] <edmoore> 186mph
[15:51] <edmoore> Meh
[15:51] <daveake_> too slow
[15:51] <daveake_> you not the ballooon
[15:51] <daveake_> :)
[15:52] <edmoore> Last payload i worked on that had a cutdown came down at about 500mph :)
[15:52] <daveake_> That's twice my record :)
[15:52] <UpuWork> didn't count wasn't on the same planet
[15:52] <daveake_> lol
[15:52] <edmoore> Nope this was the parachute test vehicle
[15:53] <edmoore> Of interest to ublox users is that the ublox vertical rates were accurate up above 200m/s vertical still
[15:53] <edmoore> Even though the data sheets says 100m/s vertical max
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[15:56] <SamSilver> PBH dropping like a stone
[15:56] <UpuWork> well if thats accurate
[15:57] <edmoore> The ublox or pbh?
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[15:57] <UpuWork> PBH
[15:57] <edmoore> Are you listening to it on hf?
[15:57] <UpuWork> nah I have no HF ability
[15:58] <UpuWork> and as for decoding morse we lol
[15:58] <UpuWork> we=well
[15:58] <UpuWork> ok afk
[15:58] <edmoore> True that
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[16:06] <edmoore> Speaking of countdowns we have an old microwave at work now
[16:06] <edmoore> As we got a shiny one today
[16:07] <edmoore> Was thinking of a supercap and the magnetron and a horn as a balloon cutdown
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[16:09] <nigelvh> HAHA
[16:10] <zyp> you need quite the balloon to lift it though
[16:11] <edmoore> Yes indeed
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[16:11] <SP9UOB> hi
[16:11] <edmoore> Greetings SP9UOB
[16:11] <SP9UOB> can anyone can listen at 29.490 MHZ/usb ?
[16:11] <SP9UOB> small ballon with 100mW transmitter
[16:11] <SamSilver> morse?
[16:11] <fsphil> ooh
[16:11] <SP9UOB> yup
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[16:12] <edmoore> Where abouts in the world is it?
[16:12] <SP9UOB> Southern Poland
[16:12] <edmoore> Thanks
[16:12] <fsphil> listening now
[16:12] <fsphil> how often does it transmit?
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[16:12] <SP9UOB> 2s transmit 2s quiet
[16:12] <fsphil> ah
[16:12] <edmoore> SP9UOB: Presumably you have told #hamradio about this too?
[16:12] <fsphil> nothing here in N.Ireland so far
[16:13] <edmoore> They have more HF people than here I think
[16:13] <edmoore> Quite a few Germans too which might help
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[16:14] <fsphil> what's the frequency on the waterfall SP9UOB?
[16:14] <SP9UOB> 600Hz
[16:14] <SP9UOB> radio dial set to 29.490 USB
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[16:15] <fsphil> yea, nothing there yet. I'll keep listening. is the balloon in the air now?
[16:15] <SP9UOB> yes launch at 15:15 utc
[16:16] <SP9UOB> only cw beacon, 70g payload
[16:16] <SP9UOB> still good reception in poland
[16:17] <priyesh> what altitude is it at?
[16:17] <SP9UOB> priyesh dont know
[16:17] <priyesh> ok
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[16:22] <r2x0t> nothing at all
[16:23] <fsphil> yea, just noise here
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[16:30] <Upu> I get S8 noise down there
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[16:36] <x-f> so that's it
[16:38] <SamSilver> x-f: seems like it
[16:38] <SP9UOB> ok thanks :-) Still listening in Poland
[16:38] <SP9UOB> bye
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[16:51] <upix_> any SHARP pictures yet?
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[17:00] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[17:01] <fsphil-laptop> howdy jcoxon
[17:01] <G0DJA> GA jcoxon
[17:07] <jcoxon> hey
[17:07] <jcoxon> i'm smiling at the fact that PBH mission is over
[17:07] <jcoxon> and it still at 33kft
[17:07] <navrac_> evening jcoxon
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> umm - 'is over' ?
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[17:08] <jcoxon> "PBH-18 flight is officially over, last point received @ 46.947N -26.787W 33k ft. Final duration 84 hrs 8 mins, thank you HAMs #PBHVI #ARHAB"
[17:09] <fsphil-laptop> termination command was sent from the azores
[17:09] <fsphil-laptop> I wonder why
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> Lack of positive control - no batteries?
[17:10] <fsphil-laptop> it could have lasted another day I think
[17:10] <fsphil-laptop> aah batteries
[17:10] <fsphil-laptop> maybe
[17:11] <LazyLeopard> Any ideas what the "termination command" actually did? Presumably severed the connection between the payload and the balloon?
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[17:12] <SpeedEvil> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=9&call=a%2FKD2AUC-SP&timerange=86400 - hmm
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> Spot still pinging
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Free SPOT - anyone with a boat.
[17:14] <fsphil-laptop> there you go nigelvh
[17:14] <LazyLeopard> Is that really a SPOT, or just a collection of manually-entered locations?
[17:15] <fsphil-laptop> er, NigeyS
[17:15] <jcoxon> i din't think its spot
[17:15] <jcoxon> pbh team have never mentioned a spot
[17:16] <NigeyS> fsphil-laptop: ?
[17:16] <fsphil-laptop> free spot if you can get a boat :)
[17:16] <fsphil-laptop> or maybe not
[17:16] <LazyLeopard> ...and I wouldn't have expected a SPOT to take an excursion to Bulgaria
[17:16] <NigeyS> haha sure!
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> KD2AUC-SP - Spot de Paulo Faria via
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> Quoting from the page
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> I was interpreting
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[17:35] <Upu> anyone any objections if I clear the tracker up ? i.e SHARP & PBH ?
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[17:36] <Udin_SHARP> Not from us I dont think
[17:36] <Upu> got your screen shots ?
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[17:37] <Upu> ah bless the lady from Hope RF would like to know what my expected range is for the RFM22B modules
[17:37] <Upu> should I respond with 700km ?
[17:37] <russss> heh
[17:37] <jcoxon> i'll shutdown the pbh script
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[17:38] <Upu> cheers James that was useful
[17:41] <Udin_SHARP> I am quickly making one to be safe
[17:41] <Upu> take your time I'll clear it later
[17:43] <radicalbiscuit> at least with PBH in the water, I'll finally get some sleep.
[17:44] <radicalbiscuit> being easily distracted and persuaded from sleep is *not* a super power
[17:45] <upix_> Udin_SHARP: do you have pictures?
[17:46] <Udin_SHARP> from yesterday?
[17:46] <Udin_SHARP> we do
[17:46] <Udin_SHARP> but no video unfortunately
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[17:47] <fsphil-laptop> radicalbiscuit, close enough :)
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[17:50] <Udin_SHARP> we will get there at some point :)
[17:51] <upix_> not yesterday
[17:52] <upix_> or was it
[17:52] <upix_> the one that landed near tennis court
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[17:56] <NickB1> Upu, are you buying RFM22B modules?
[17:56] <Upu> yeah
[17:56] <NickB1> for the shop ?
[17:56] <Upu> yup
[17:56] <NickB1> ah great
[17:57] <NickB1> was going to order them from sparkfun
[17:57] <NickB1> but its not that urgent
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[17:57] <Upu> coming from China so will be a week or so
[17:57] <NickB1> no problem
[17:58] <NickB1> will order some :)
[17:58] <Upu> cheers :)
[17:58] <upix_> Upu: any approximate estimate on rfm?
[17:58] <Upu> not had confirmation of order but at least a week minimum
[17:59] <upix_> No i ment the price you would be selling it
[17:59] <Upu> oh sorry
[17:59] <Upu> should be cheaper than Sparkfun but I don't know how much customs will whack on
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[18:01] <NickB1> working on a new flightcomputer http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5408/falconflightcomputerv2.jpg
[18:01] <Upu> that looks like Altrium
[18:01] Adam___ (57c21a79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.194.26.121) joined #highaltitude.
[18:01] <NickB1> yes its altium
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[18:09] <Adam___> Is PBH still airbourne?
[18:09] <Upu> no
[18:09] <Upu> flight was terminated
[18:09] <andrew_apex> so cutdown?
[18:09] <Upu> yeah
[18:10] <andrew_apex> over the sea? why?
[18:10] <Upu> it was stuck going in circles at aeroplane altitude
[18:10] <Adam___> Why was the flight terminated?
[18:10] <andrew_apex> ah right
[18:10] <Upu> it didn't gain any altitude today so it ended up going "backwards"
[18:10] <Adam___> Oh! Beaten to it.
[18:15] <Adam___> That's a shame for the team. I waas really starting to enjoy logging on to see it's progress towards Europe.
[18:15] <Upu> sure they have alot of data to take back
[18:15] <radicalbiscuit> Me too. I wonder if this will be lighting a fire under LVL1's rears, though.
[18:15] <Upu> shame it won't be shared but hey ho
[18:16] <Adam___> Why don't they share? Surely a University project publishes?
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[18:16] <Upu> they aren't technically amateurs, I don't understand the full story but they are something to do with Lockheed Martin
[18:17] <radicalbiscuit> Just funding, or employment?
[18:17] <x-f> "The students are all early-career engineers at Lockheed Martin in Owego and are part of the company's Engineering Leadership Development Program."
[18:17] <x-f> last year - http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/April11/balloonRecord.html
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[18:18] <radicalbiscuit> Well, that's cleared up then.
[18:21] <fsphil-laptop> so they're employee students?
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[18:36] <Adam___> We've just had the first team meeting for project Horizon and the teaser poster has gone down well with the younger pupils at school http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/cazbuh/Horizon/TeaserPoster.jpg
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[18:36] <x-f> wow :)
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[18:39] <Adam___> Launch has been set for February next year. They're going to learn how to build the flight computer using the Arduino as a base. Some of them have no experience of programming and their electronics expertise extends to turning light bulbs on with batteries and a switch. The enthusiasm at the first team meeting was fantastic and the excitement was palpable.
[18:39] <jcoxon> good work
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[18:41] <SpeedEvil> 'And three meetings in, one person is doing all the work'
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Congrats!
[18:42] <Adam___> We've got four teams: Publicity and Sponsorship, Balloon Team, Payload Team and an ICT Team.
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:43] <Adam___> Teams are set goals and deadlines but left to divide work amongst themselves. We also have a large recruiting pool as there were 115 applications for just 15 positions.
[18:45] <Adam___> Once our tracking system has been extensively flight tested we're looking to run launches with different groups throughout the school and possibly establish an outreach programme to local schools.
[18:47] <number10> Adam___: It be interesting to see how it works out. Who makes the decision on recruitment
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> anyone here soldered to stainless steel?
[18:49] <Adam___> For the first team recruitment was by selection (using information from relevant departments). Next time we plan to run an applications process with submissions.
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> ive got some hirose st40x connectorsd
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> for some reason my previous ones were nickel plated
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> these arent :(
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> just bare 304 stainless
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[18:51] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: There is a tenacious oxide coating I thought
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall I tried once, and had even less success than with Al
[18:51] <Adam___> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV0aLDxlvXk and http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=150
[18:52] <priyesh> Adam___: what age range are you aiming at
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I've been doing some reading, and laser welding would work well.
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV0aLDxlvXk
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> claims that he did it
[18:52] <Adam___> It's also worth reading: http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/brazing-stainless-steel-c44.html
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> ok
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[18:53] <Laurenceb_> i might see if screwfix stock anything useful
[18:53] <Adam___> We're starting out with year 12 and moving it down the school once it is established.
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> hea's using oxy/ac though
[18:55] <oh7lzb> By the way, I was looking at the tracker's code a bit... what's the background for the 5-degree elevation circle? Why 5?
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[18:55] <SpeedEvil> 5 is not unreasonable for clear in moderately good locations
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> A lot more places have obstructions at the 5 degree level from terrain
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[18:56] <SpeedEvil> In short - at 5 degrees you'll probably be able to find somewhere easily to pick up a balloon.
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> If it's right on the horizon, you may need to drive miles.
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> - to get a clear horizon
[18:56] <Adam___> I used to mod computers and do a little electronics work over at Bit-tech.net. One day in January I was looking over the 'MIT hack the tubes' website and I saw Erin King's project. After that I stumbled across Sutton Grammar School's Apex HAB and found UK HAS from there.
[18:57] <oh7lzb> Ok, so it's just a practical good useful constant. :)
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[18:57] <SpeedEvil> oh7lzb: Pretty much.
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> It's possible to do better - ideally you'd take SRTM topology data, and draw not a circle, but a footprint for the HAB to the point at which any pixel of the height data affects teh signal (fresnel zone).
[18:58] <oh7lzb> That's fine. I might borrow your constant a bit if you don't mind.
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[18:58] <SpeedEvil> But this is about 4 magnitudes more code.
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> It would be very, very awesome though.
[18:58] <oh7lzb> a bit slower, too.
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[18:58] <SpeedEvil> Somewhat.
[18:58] <oh7lzb> Google has an elevations API.
[18:59] <oh7lzb> Might take a beating if that was used
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[18:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> arg
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> why is all the flux acid free
[18:59] <oh7lzb> Someone in germany made a link budget calculator for ham gigaherz links
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> they say it like its an advantage lol
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> plumbing flux isn't
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: It is - if you don't want to have to clean it off all 100%
[19:00] <oh7lzb> using google's API and aprs.fi API
[19:00] <priyesh> Adam___: oh cool :) - we (apexhab) are entirely year 12 & 11 students - no teacher support (apart from driving, etc for launches)
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> all the plumbing flux i can find is
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> The above is shuttle radar data for elevation
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: ah
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-traditional-flux-300g/88424
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> maybe?
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> Well - the MSDS says zinc and ammonium chloride
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> i could copper plate it with copper sulphate solution
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[19:05] <Laurenceb_> http://www.superiorflux.com/stainless_steel_soldering_flux.html
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> copper isnt a hard to solder metal :P
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> ok looks like the "no nonsense" flux will work
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> awesome, off to screwfix then
[19:08] <Adam___> I was so impressed by your setup Priyesh. Unfortunately cambridge is just a little too far for us to drive so we're hoping to launch locally.
[19:08] <Adam___> How do you find the AOR 8000 for tracking?
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> hmm but no hydrochloric acid ...
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> tho i do have a barrel of that :P
[19:10] <priyesh> Adam___: AOR 8000?
[19:11] <Adam___> I thought you guys had an AOR 8000 for tracking (the radio)?
[19:11] <priyesh> nope
[19:11] <priyesh> we have a yausu ft817
[19:11] <daveake> I'll answer the question then as I've used one for 5 chases :)
[19:11] <priyesh> and an icom 7000
[19:11] <daveake> It's very good
[19:12] <priyesh> * IC-7000
[19:12] <Adam___> Where did you get the funds for an IC-7000?
[19:12] <priyesh> both are very good
[19:12] <priyesh> both were bought at the same time using a PTA donation
[19:12] <priyesh> we use the ft817 for chase cars and debugging
[19:13] <priyesh> and the ic7000 is setup in apexlab for remote tragging
[19:13] <priyesh> *tracking
[19:13] <priyesh> so it has rig control and is attached to a colinear on the school roof
[19:14] <Adam___> That's not a bad idea. Our budget is just £400, the rest has to be raised by our Sponsorship team. Luckily I live next to employees at major manufacturing firms in the Midlands with good contacts so I'm hoping for decent private sponsorship to expand the project with.
[19:14] <priyesh> yeah
[19:14] <priyesh> we've had quite a bit of sponsorship (have a look at our homepage)
[19:14] <priyesh> it helps a lot
[19:15] <priyesh> but the project is now 4 years old
[19:15] <Adam___> Has it been harder to find sponsors as the project has aged?
[19:16] <priyesh> not really, infact it probably helps
[19:16] <priyesh> it shows that we've had successful launches and that we know what we're doing
[19:16] <Adam___> What do you offer sponsors?
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[19:16] <priyesh> logos on payload, logos on website (for the duration of a payload - often ~1 year)
[19:16] <priyesh> and also logos on posters
[19:17] <priyesh> so we were at the big bang fair 2 weeks ago
[19:17] <priyesh> and sponsor logos were up there
[19:17] <Adam___> I saw, it was quite a stall.
[19:17] <priyesh> :)
[19:17] <priyesh> were you at the fair or did you see via twitter?
[19:18] <Adam___> I follow a lot of tech blogs via a news aggregator that I customised. Your stall made it onto a few feeds. I didn't notice the sponsor logos in the photo, probably because I was too busy looking at the equipment and layout.
[19:19] <priyesh> oh wow
[19:19] <priyesh> didn't know that
[19:19] <priyesh> any chance you have a link?
[19:19] <Adam___> Ah, cleared the cache last night because I get over 90 story links a day. Let me have a little hunt around.
[19:20] <priyesh> ah - no worries if you can't then
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[19:24] <Adam___> Found one: http://www.balloon.co.uk/blog/index.php/category/helium-balloon-gas/
[19:25] <priyesh> ah nice :) - they're one of our sponsors
[19:27] <Adam___> Can't track down anything else though, it was the only title that I remembered.
[19:28] <priyesh> np - thanks for looking
[19:28] <Adam___> How did you get started in all of this anyway? What was the original inspiration?
[19:29] <priyesh> for that i'd recommend talking to jonsowman
[19:30] <priyesh> Adam___: have a read of the first para here; http://www.apexhab.org/apex-i/
[19:30] <Adam___> :-) I'd always read his name as Jonsnowman. That's the first time I noticed the lack of the second 'n'.
[19:31] <priyesh> haha
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[19:32] <Adam___> I read the link, it's more or less identical to the proposal I wrote for the Headmaster at our school.
[19:32] <priyesh> :)
[19:33] <Adam___> How did you get roped in?
[19:33] <priyesh> hmm
[19:33] <priyesh> i was invited to join and then as the original trio left for uni, we took over
[19:33] <priyesh> but the whole team did apex ii together as a sort of transition
[19:34] <Adam___> We'll be doing something similar. I wanted to overlap teams and to aid the transition I invited three student's from GCSE years to apply,
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[19:35] <priyesh> ok
[19:35] <priyesh> time's gone so fast
[19:35] <priyesh> now i need to start looking for the 3rd generation of the team
[19:35] <Adam___> It always does. How do you plan to recruit?
[19:35] <priyesh> Adam___: so where are you in the school?
[19:36] <priyesh> not entirely sure yet
[19:36] <danielsaul> Just seen this conversation :)
[19:36] <Adam___> I'm a teacher.
[19:36] <Adam___> A little younger than most on our staff.
[19:36] <priyesh> sorry - i meant which department do you teach in
[19:36] <priyesh> :P
[19:37] <priyesh> interested whether this is a DT or physics project
[19:37] <danielsaul> Finding new members now is going to be harder, since our school is dropping electronics :(
[19:37] <fsphil-laptop> wot
[19:37] <fsphil-laptop> but that's essential
[19:37] <Randomskk> especially sad given the previous quality of their electronics
[19:37] <Randomskk> I think your old electronics teacher retired or something?
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[19:38] <danielsaul> Yeah
[19:38] <Adam___> Mathematics. Sadly Science and D&T were not interested. Our school teaches very little in the way of electronics but we have an excellent ICT staff who teach Assembly Language.
[19:38] <Randomskk> wow.
[19:38] <danielsaul> The new DT teacher just doesn't care about electronics unfortunately
[19:38] <Randomskk> :|
[19:38] <fsphil-laptop> we spend 1 single day at school doing assembly
[19:38] <danielsaul> ICT staff who know Assembly :O
[19:38] <fsphil-laptop> spent*
[19:39] <Adam___> They teach four languages at our school, we're very fortunate to have an excellent head of department. He's been a great support to the project.
[19:41] <Adam___> Nice to meet you Priyesh and Daniel. I'll follow the rest of the project with great interest.
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[19:55] <futurity> Evening, anyone from the CUSF team around?
[19:55] <Randomskk> yes, hi
[19:55] <futurity> Hi Randomskk
[19:56] <futurity> Do you know if Wombat is the same payload as a few weeks ago? My two boys are interested to know if their two hairs are still on board ;)
[19:57] <futurity> not a problem if they aren't, just curious
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[19:57] <Randomskk> uhm in theory I think yes
[19:57] <Randomskk> same box, same electronics
[19:57] <futurity> fantastic
[19:57] <futurity> fingers crossed for a higher altitude
[19:58] <Randomskk> and also for it working :P
[19:58] <futurity> i'm around in the morning and late afternoon to track
[19:58] <futurity> of yes, both hands crossed, one for Joey, one for wombat
[19:58] <futurity> do you have a rough eta?
[19:58] <Randomskk> 11-12 and 2-3
[19:58] <Randomskk> for the two launches
[19:59] <futurity> cool
[19:59] <Randomskk> joey on 433.8 and squirrel on 434.650 first, then wombat on 434.0 and astra on 434.075 and 27.something
[19:59] <futurity> i should be around for at least the last one
[19:59] <Randomskk> oh god I hope wombat doesn't drown out astra
[19:59] <Randomskk> so many radios
[19:59] <Randomskk> x_x
[19:59] <futurity> wombat and astra are close
[20:00] <futurity> hopefully they'll drift in fequency together
[20:00] <futurity> is there a predicted flight path? I'd like to get my aerial positioned before hand if possible
[20:01] <Randomskk> wombat might be doing temperature compensation of tx frequency
[20:01] <Randomskk> uhm
[20:01] <Randomskk> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=dc14a40933896b4fcb00a32dccf8425e5d23e837
[20:02] <futurity> lol bursting right over my house
[20:02] <Randomskk> nice
[20:02] <futurity> almost a perfect square
[20:02] <Randomskk> shame it doesn't go up again really
[20:03] <futurity> yes and it lands back in the bat cave
[20:08] <futurity> need to go, will try to track tomorrow. Fingers crossed for records :)
[20:08] <Randomskk> thanks! :P
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[20:18] <ajwillink> Hi all,
[20:18] <NigeyS> so tomorrow we have a flying zoo? :D :p
[20:18] <NigeyS> hey ajwillink
[20:18] <ajwillink> any pictures about from the weekends flights?
[20:18] <Randomskk> haha
[20:18] <Randomskk> indeed we do
[20:18] <Randomskk> a wombat and a joey and a squirrel
[20:18] <Upu> evening ajwillink
[20:18] <ajwillink> hehehe
[20:19] <ajwillink> we playing zoo here?
[20:19] <ajwillink> ;)
[20:19] <Upu> avary
[20:19] <NigeyS> lmao
[20:19] <ajwillink> is Dave about? I tracked his balloon
[20:19] <ajwillink> looked awesome
[20:19] <daveake> Yes just about :)
[20:19] <jonsowman> what am i being asked about priyesh?
[20:19] <daveake> I've written it up with some photos http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=396
[20:19] <ajwillink> cool, taking a look
[20:20] <Upu> doing it again this weekend ajwillink
[20:20] <ajwillink> really?
[20:20] <ajwillink> where from?
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[20:20] <ajwillink> I am waiting for my balloon to arrive
[20:20] <Upu> daveake's
[20:20] <priyesh> jonsowman: not to worry - Adam_____ was asking about how apex i started
[20:20] <Upu> 3 going up at once
[20:21] <jonsowman> priyesh: ah okay
[20:21] <jonsowman> JC to blame ;)
[20:21] <NigeyS> evening jonsowman
[20:21] <Upu> and we have 3 going up tomorrow
[20:21] <jonsowman> hi NigeyS
[20:21] <priyesh> jonsowman: was it something like JC asking to you track where a balloon goes?
[20:21] <NigeyS> all set for tomorrow mr ? :D
[20:21] <ajwillink> Ah, wish I wasn't working
[20:21] <jonsowman> basically he said can we send up a balloon and track it
[20:21] <ajwillink> would love to see
[20:21] <jonsowman> NigeyS: i reckon so
[20:21] <priyesh> jonsowman: ok
[20:21] <jonsowman> gonna be a busy day
[20:21] <Randomskk> haha you reckon
[20:21] <Randomskk> I can't wait for tomorrow morning
[20:22] <jonsowman> haha
[20:22] <Randomskk> desperate hacking
[20:22] <NigeyS> hah busy aint the word!!
[20:22] <Upu> I love daveake's write ups its launch, sight seeing, lunch collect payload in evening
[20:22] <NigeyS> crack the whip adam!
[20:22] <ajwillink> am reading it now
[20:22] <ajwillink> awesome!
[20:22] <daveake> :D
[20:23] <ajwillink> Quite a trip it led you on
[20:23] <daveake> Yep!
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[20:23] <daveake> It didn't go far but it took its time getting there
[20:24] <ajwillink> "armed with warmer clothing"
[20:24] <ajwillink> sounds like a mission
[20:24] <daveake> Yeah, shorts during the day. Needed more protection at night!
[20:24] <daveake> Also needed torches and the Yagi
[20:25] <ajwillink> You have a dog that can help?
[20:25] <ajwillink> I was thinking to take mine
[20:25] <ajwillink> she may be able to find it if I attached a tennis ball
[20:25] <Randomskk> hehe
[20:25] <daveake> :)
[20:25] <Randomskk> or put a tasty bone in the payload box...
[20:26] <ajwillink> She tries to catch airplanes, but still hasn't got the trick yet
[20:26] <daveake> $$BONE,12,....
[20:26] <ajwillink> seems the garden gate presents a big obstacle
[20:27] <Upu> by that definition to get my dog to go after my payload I need to put some cat shit in there
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[20:27] <Randomskk> nice
[20:27] <Randomskk> sanitary
[20:27] <Upu> and then he tries to lick your face
[20:27] <Upu> its not good
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[20:27] <Randomskk> even better
[20:27] <ajwillink> Any thought on where I can get a polystyrene case
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[20:28] <Morseman> Does anyone know what mode the SSTV will be tomorrow?
[20:28] <Randomskk> hmm
[20:28] <jonsowman> 9martin 1
[20:28] <Upu> ajwillink you can make one from building insulation or try E-Bay
[20:28] <jonsowman> -9
[20:28] <ajwillink> ah!! building insulation
[20:28] <ajwillink> anyone ever used celotex?
[20:28] <ajwillink> that stuff is pretty cool
[20:29] <ajwillink> or does that hinder transmission
[20:29] <Randomskk> Morseman: this is the code to generate it: https://github.com/cuspaceflight/Squirrel-Radio/blob/master/src/uk/ac/cam/cusf/squirrelradio/Sstv.java
[20:29] <Randomskk> but I don't know what mode that is.
[20:29] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Very-small-polystyrene-box-lid-245-x-195-x-105mm-/290688996855?pt=UK_Packaging_Materials&hash=item43ae6a15f7
[20:29] <jonsowman> it's martin 1 sstv
[20:29] <ajwillink> just ordered it
[20:29] <ajwillink> perfect
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[20:32] <ajwillink> http://www.jbpackaging.co.uk/polystyrene-boxes.html
[20:32] <ajwillink> this site also looks good
[20:32] <ajwillink> will order one from there as well
[20:32] <ajwillink> and test
[20:33] <Morseman> Thanks jonspwman - Some programs auto detect but often better to set it up ahead of time
[20:33] <jonsowman> yep
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[20:34] <Morseman> Thatnks for the link Randomskk - I had a look through but couldn't see where it defined the mode
[20:34] <griffonbot> @PD3EM: My first test-setup with #ArduinoUno and #Radiometrix NTX2 10 mW 70cm TX doing RTTY #ukhas #HAB http://t.co/zYo6Ml27 [http://twitter.com/PD3EM/status/184740122997161984]
[20:34] <Morseman> Or even jonsowman!
[20:34] <Randomskk> Morseman: yea it doesn't mention the mode at all it seems
[20:35] <jonsowman> :)
[20:35] <Morseman> Did 792 metres tonight and legs are complaining!
[20:36] <ajwillink> Any flights near London on Sunday?
[20:36] <Upu> tend to avoid London
[20:37] <Upu> Saturday : http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=3e8c707e51e23ebfc9b7249cfd4f443d94b2194a
[20:37] <ajwillink> ah cool
[20:37] Adam___ (57c21a79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.194.26.121) joined #highaltitude.
[20:38] <ajwillink> I live near the landing
[20:38] <ajwillink> crawley area
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[20:40] <ajwillink> has anyone experimented with stabilisers?
[20:40] <ajwillink> like wings
[20:40] <ajwillink> to prevent spinning
[20:41] <Upu> I think some people have
[20:41] <ajwillink> of camera
[20:42] <ajwillink> Was thinking a couple of little fins maybe or something
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[20:45] <Morseman> Would have thought would need some fairly large fins to have much effect?
[20:45] <ajwillink> Am still trying to find a camera that will shoot video till it stops
[20:45] <ajwillink> preferably in HD
[20:45] <Randomskk> go pro hero 2
[20:45] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Not much air up there.
[20:45] <ajwillink> turns out the canon a800 stops
[20:45] <Randomskk> 1080p
[20:45] <Randomskk> 170 degree wide angle
[20:45] <Randomskk> waterproof housing
[20:45] <ajwillink> after one hour
[20:45] <Randomskk> battery backpack option
[20:45] <Randomskk> no LCD to waste power
[20:46] <Randomskk> tiny, lightweight
[20:46] <Randomskk> does not need any messing with - will just shoot video nonstop out the box
[20:46] <ajwillink> exactly
[20:46] <ajwillink> hard to find a critter like that
[20:46] <Randomskk> the first thing I said
[20:46] <Randomskk> "go pro hero 2"
[20:46] <Randomskk> is the one
[20:46] <ajwillink> I know
[20:46] <ajwillink> but is a pretty expensive piece
[20:46] <ajwillink> to send
[20:46] <ajwillink> on my first mission
[20:47] <Randomskk> hehe they are not cheap ;)
[20:47] <ajwillink> will probably send up an slr if this trip goes well
[20:47] <Randomskk> nice
[20:47] <ajwillink> but need to start cheap
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[20:47] <ajwillink> am only using a 300g balloon
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[20:50] <ajwillink> anyone used a creative vado
[20:50] <ajwillink> camcorder?
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[20:51] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[20:52] <Adam___> The cheaper camcorders use SD cards formatted in FAT32
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[20:52] <Adam___> Max file size is 4GB so they all stop when they reach 4GB.
[20:52] <ajwillink> fat32 is a pain
[20:52] <ajwillink> I have that limit on my 5d
[20:53] <ajwillink> Do you think a camera would work with an NTFS formatted card?
[20:53] <Adam___> The more expensive camcorders will simply follow on to record another file/link them to seem like one file. With the 4GB limit you either get very little recording time or you go for low quality.
[20:53] <daveake> My Zx1 just creates a new file every 4gB
[20:53] <Adam___> Nope, sorry.
[20:54] <ajwillink> hmm, the panasonic looks good
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[20:54] <ajwillink> colours ok?
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[20:55] <Adam___> The Hero 1 can be picked up for £150 now, just don't leave the waterproof housing or the last 20000ft will be a blur as the lense will fog.
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[20:56] <Adam___> Sorry, I mean't don't leave it in the waterproof housing.
[20:56] <ajwillink> Hmmm,
[20:56] <ajwillink> got it ;)
[20:56] <ajwillink> I looked into people who were heating the lens etc, seems a bad idea to me
[20:57] <Adam___> Do you have a website for your project yet?
[20:57] <ajwillink> rather keep it the same temp as outside
[20:57] <ajwillink> I am setting up the website tomorrow :)
[20:57] <ajwillink> but I have a photography website
[20:57] <ajwillink> Might use that
[20:57] <Adam___> Use a bolster behind the camera to press it against the hole in the payload wall. This will create a seal.
[20:58] <ajwillink> good idea,
[20:58] <ajwillink> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kodak-Mini-Pocket-Waterproof-digital/dp/B003U3XOR0/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332881702&sr=1-6
[20:58] <Adam___> Or at least keep the heat from leaking out quite so much. We're in the design stage of our project so these questions have come up a lot recently.
[20:58] <ajwillink> came across this one
[20:59] <ajwillink> Was thinking about Celotex
[20:59] <ajwillink> its an incredible insulator
[21:00] <ajwillink> Ah shit - 85 mins battery, that's not going to work!
[21:01] <Adam___> Contour is cheaper than the Go Pro but I don't know anything about them.
[21:01] <ajwillink> I could take the easy option and only take pictures going up - would use the a800
[21:03] <Morseman> Has anyone taken on the idea of spreading the trackers between the launches tomorrow or is the 'market' going to decide?
[21:03] <Randomskk> market usually decides
[21:04] <Adam___> Good luck for tomorrow!
[21:04] <ajwillink> Dito
[21:04] <Randomskk> thanks :D
[21:04] <jcoxon> Morseman, it would be nice to coordinate
[21:05] <jcoxon> but just not sure who is actually going to listen out
[21:05] Action: jcoxon would love to have a mission control...
[21:05] <Morseman> I'm working at home most of tomorrow again
[21:05] <Morseman> So can keep an ear out for noises from rig
[21:06] Action: Morseman gives jcoxon a mission control
[21:06] <jcoxon> one day...
[21:06] <Adam___> Could I have one as well?
[21:07] <jcoxon> Adam___, you can be a remote station
[21:07] Action: Morseman gives Adam__ a mission control as well
[21:07] <Adam___> While we're just giving them away ;-p
[21:07] <Morseman> I bought a job lot from NASA
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[21:08] <Adam___> Sorry jcoxon, no radio here yet. We're looking into ways of getting cash for one or getting one by donation.
[21:08] <jcoxon> Morseman, old shuttle mission controls?
[21:08] <Adam___> @Morseman: Grins
[21:08] <jcoxon> Adam___, where are you based?
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[21:08] <Adam___> Walsall, Staffs
[21:09] <Adam___> ?
[21:09] <Morseman> Not sure jcoxon a mixed bag of Apollo and Mercury in there as well
[21:10] <jcoxon> oh even better
[21:12] <ajwillink> zx1 a good camera to use?
[21:13] <ajwillink> they are only £45
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[21:13] <F5MVO> good evening
[21:14] <Upu> evening
[21:15] <F5MVO> Upu, hello
[21:15] <Upu> Are yuo tracking tomorrow F5MVO ?
[21:15] <F5MVO> perhaps, is too far for me
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[21:16] <Upu> ok
[21:16] <F5MVO> perhaps, but i look at
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[21:17] <F5MVO> PBH is slow down ?
[21:17] <Upu> they terminated the flight
[21:18] <Upu> it never climbed today and got caught in a circular wind, was going backwards
[21:18] <Upu> and was about the altitude of aeroplanes so I think they sent a command to cut it down
[21:19] <F5MVO> just climb about 13400m
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[21:20] <Upu> wasn't enough
[21:21] <F5MVO> it was out jeatstream
[21:22] <Upu> http://www.projectbluehorizon.com/#flight
[21:22] <Upu> note it went north
[21:22] <Upu> and then back west
[21:23] <F5MVO> yes i look at this afternoon
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[21:29] <F5MVO> Upu, balloons Nova are floating ?
[21:30] <Upu> I don't think so they are up / down ones
[21:30] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=dc14a40933896b4fcb00a32dccf8425e5d23e837
[21:30] <Upu> ok I'm off night all
[21:31] <Randomskk> seeya
[21:31] <F5MVO> Upu, good flight, wind calm
[21:32] <F5MVO> see you later
[21:34] <F5MVO> chase_test 334km/h woo, is a jet
[21:35] <F5MVO> or formul one
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[21:36] <Laurenceb_> anyone made any progress with the dvbt dongle?
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[21:40] <BrainDamage> I ordered one off dx, and it's going to take a while to get here :/ local e shops were considerably more expensive, and with currency exchange and shipping the uk ones aren't cheap either
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> everyones going to have one soon
[21:44] <NigeyS> Laurenceb: yours turned up yet ?
[21:45] <craag> I'm gonna order one after easter, I'm very keen on using it for hab tracking, so I don't have to buy another expensive radio :)
[21:46] <NigeyS> the gf stole mine last night to watch tv on the laptop! :|
[21:47] <Adam___> How good are they for HAB tracking?
[21:47] <NigeyS> possibly quite good
[21:47] <Adam___> Could they be used in the field?
[21:47] <NigeyS> well laurence was thinking of a way to get it working with fldigi
[21:48] <NigeyS> via a jack server
[21:48] <Adam___> I'll watch this one with keen interest then.
[21:48] <BrainDamage> the problem is not just the data feedtrough
[21:49] <BrainDamage> you want an LNA frontend
[21:49] <BrainDamage> and a connector with right impedance
[21:49] <NigeyS> yeah, there is a sch of a lna floating about but he's not yet finished, and i think at our ssb frequencies it wont be much good
[21:49] <BrainDamage> characteristic impedance*
[21:49] <NigeyS> ep, 50 instead of 75 right ?
[21:49] <NigeyS> yep*
[21:50] <BrainDamage> not just that, you could get away with 75, but the problem is that pal connectors are not even 75 :p
[21:50] <BrainDamage> so it reflects
[21:50] <NigeyS> ohhh
[21:51] <BrainDamage> tv systems can get away with it using preamps and the signal is much stronger anyway
[21:51] <NigeyS> true
[21:51] <BrainDamage> anyway, since it's a specific band that interests you, you can always make a much narrower band LNA, with better specs
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[21:52] <NigeyS> ill leave that to someone with a clue..lol
[21:52] <NigeyS> wouldnt know where to start
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[21:56] <jcoxon> night all
[21:56] <Morseman> NigeyS just need a band pass filter in front of it
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[21:58] <NigeyS> oh i see
[22:04] <Morseman> Simple system for designing filters by Texas Instruments http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sloa093/sloa093.pdf
[22:05] <NigeyS> oh nice!
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[22:10] <NigeyS> narrow or wide ?
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> thats what she said
[22:15] <NigeyS> lol
[22:15] <BrainDamage> Morseman: opamp filters don't work at rf, their GBWP is too small
[22:16] <BrainDamage> plus, on LNA you want to use the filtering network do impedance matching too
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[22:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Matthew Brejza "Re: [UKHAS] Wombat/Joey/HF Launch Wednesday"
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[22:33] <Randomskk> wombat in the freezer down to -13C
[22:35] <NigeyS> nippy!
[22:36] <Randomskk> not sure it'l manage to get much colder
[22:36] <Randomskk> also I can't get my macbook to do rig control
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[22:36] <Randomskk> :(
[22:36] <Zuph> Ship it over here, we'll get it to -50
[22:36] <Randomskk> it only has rigcat not hamlib
[22:36] <Randomskk> Zuph: hehe
[22:36] <NigeyS> took ages for me to get picochu to -17
[22:36] <Randomskk> I'll just send it up... :P
[22:36] <Randomskk> NigeyS: it is very slowly dropping further. frequency is doing well
[22:36] <Zuph> Hard to find dry ice over there?
[22:37] <Randomskk> Zuph: yea
[22:37] <NigeyS> schweet!
[22:37] <Zuph> Weird.
[22:37] <Randomskk> NigeyS: in that my radio hasn't changed dial freq :P
[22:37] <NigeyS> no fair!
[22:37] <NigeyS> had to change freq twice for picochu
[22:37] <Randomskk> to be fair at about 0C it's a bit far out and does need changing, but it comes back again as it gets a little colder :P
[22:37] <Randomskk> but if I could get this damn rig control working I'd be very happy
[22:38] <Zuph> A credit card and valid photo ID, and I could pick up some LN2 without too much hassle.
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[22:59] <NSS-WB9SBD> Greetings Everyone.
[23:00] <NSS-WB9SBD> What was the last word on PBH?
[23:01] <NigeyS> aborted i think
[23:01] <NSS-WB9SBD> Yeah I just went to their website and yes aborted. but no reason given for it.
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[23:18] <Adam___> It started circling at commercial aircraft altitude and did not rise again so they aborted it rather than leave it in the sky as a potential hazard.
[23:32] <NigeyS> oo that's not good
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[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[23:37] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[00:00] --- Wed Mar 28 2012