highaltitude.log.20120318

[00:00] <Laurenceb_> http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices/Full
[00:00] <Laurenceb_> Matt_soton: yeah
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[00:00] <Laurenceb_> just wondered if they added one
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[00:09] <Laurenceb_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/ClimaxDigital-DTV200-Receiver-Freeview-supports/dp/B001EDO3MI/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332028722&sr=1-21
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> probably works
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[00:12] <Matt_soton> so is the idea that you can get a raw data stream off these things with the right driver?
[00:14] <Darkside> yes, it appears the realtek chip has a passthrough mode
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> wait
[00:14] <Darkside> but you loose a lot of SNR using the realtek chip
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> this covers gps
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> holy shit
[00:14] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: shit sensitivity though
[00:14] <Laurenceb_> sige sampler replacement
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[00:14] <Laurenceb_> use an active ant
[00:15] <Darkside> mm
[00:15] <Matt_soton> so a 434 filter + lna + impendace converter shouldnt be too much effort?
[00:15] <Darkside> worth a try
[00:15] <Darkside> Matt_soton: well at the moment theres no live drive for it
[00:15] <Darkside> live driver*
[00:15] <Darkside> only a program that saves samples to a file
[00:15] <Matt_soton> oh, half way there
[00:15] <Darkside> also this won't interface with dl-fldigi directly, it'll have to go via gnuradio
[00:16] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: you found a datasheet for the realtek?
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[00:16] <Matt_soton> could you rip it open and tap the output of the demod?
[00:16] <Matt_soton> or the mixer rather
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[00:16] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: nah
[00:16] <Darkside> but the rtl-sdr site says 8-bit samples
[00:17] <Laurenceb_> shrug
[00:17] <Laurenceb_> thats like a mil spec gps
[00:17] <Darkside> Matt_soton: yeah, you could
[00:17] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: hehe
[00:17] <Darkside> true, for gps its probably fine
[00:17] <Matt_soton> yea but does low resolution matter less for DS-SS?
[00:18] <Darkside> no
[00:19] <Matt_soton> maxims gps front ends output upto a massive 3 bits
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> Depends on jam resistance you need.
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't actually affect normal performance _that_ much.
[00:21] <Laurenceb_> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=104
[00:21] <Laurenceb_> please dont order all the stock
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> For jam resistance, you really doo need more depth
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Huh?
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> 'Including GST' ?
[00:22] <Laurenceb_> typo?
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> I guess.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> Also for waterproofing payloads.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=198
[00:23] <Matt_soton> or cheap balloons
[00:24] <Matt_soton> not sure about cheap actually
[00:24] <Laurenceb_> because lets face it, noone on here is actually going to use any for the correct purpose
[00:27] <Laurenceb_> oops
[00:27] <Laurenceb_> searching for ezcap 666, got www.satansrapture.com/
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[00:28] <Matt_soton> well not the worst designed webpage ever
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[02:48] <Darkside> Laurenceb: their code doesnt work with my card, as i have a FC0012 tuner
[02:48] <Darkside> not a FC0013
[02:49] <Darkside> will have to try and find the I2C commands to set up the FC0012
[02:59] <schofieldau> oh god
[03:00] <schofieldau> just swapped to dvorak
[03:00] <Darkside> bad idea
[03:01] <schofieldau> but RSI
[03:01] <Darkside> hehe
[03:01] <Darkside> i have a heap of friends that use dvorak
[03:02] <schofieldau> I never actually learned to touch type properly
[03:02] <schofieldau> (back on QWERTY now for the moment)
[03:02] <schofieldau> I just rearranged my keyboard into a random configuration
[03:02] <schofieldau> which forced me to memorise the positions of keys
[03:03] <schofieldau> don't properly use the home row and I think that my finger positions would make typing instructors cringe
[03:03] <schofieldau> but I manage 110+ WPM on qwerty
[03:07] <schofieldau> hose hone shon tease
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[06:32] <benoxley> morning
[06:41] <natrium42> yo
[06:44] <benoxley> what a lovely time of day to be up :)
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[06:52] <natrium42> benoxley: it's midnight here
[06:53] <Darkside> hey all
[06:53] <Darkside> does anyone happen to have a RFM22B and a printer handy
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[07:00] <x-f> morning
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[07:02] <Darkside> morning
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[07:03] <gonzo_> .
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[07:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
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[07:38] <Morseman> GM OZ1SKY_Brian
[07:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> GM Morseman. Where did launch end up yesterday?
[07:39] <navrac> morning all
[07:39] <Morseman> Hi navrac
[07:39] <Morseman> It ended up in the north sea I think
[07:39] <Morseman> Or at least the Channel
[07:39] <Morseman> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[07:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its not there Morseman
[07:40] <Morseman> Maybe I need to refresh - HI
[07:41] <Upu> morning
[07:41] <Upu> I removed it for todays launch
[07:41] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/dq119.jpg
[07:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh theres a launch today, lots of launches lately
[07:42] <Morseman> Last possition 53.52199 Northy, 2.67164 East
[07:42] <Morseman> Northy = North
[07:42] <Upu> yeah more than I can recall
[07:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> any idea why it only reached 25km alt. ?
[07:42] <Upu> not sure something broke
[07:42] <Upu> decent rate was odd very low
[07:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok upu
[07:43] <Upu> only idea we have is the balloon burst prematurely and then acted as a sort of parachute
[07:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oz1nvs also told me he didnt hear it, some 40km short
[07:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> who is launching today?
[07:45] <Morseman> Tyhe height chart showed a blip as it went back up again for a short time
[07:45] <Morseman> What is with the 'y' button and me this morning?
[07:47] <Upu> right dog walk
[07:49] <navrac> Sharp at 11 0clock I think
[07:50] <Darkside> Upu: ping
[07:50] <Darkside> do you have a printer handy
[07:52] <Darkside> just wondering if you can do a 1:1 printout of my pcb design, and check the RFM22B footprint it correct
[07:52] <Darkside> is*
[08:15] <Upu> morning DS
[08:15] <Upu> I have one at work and I am popping in this afternoon
[08:15] <Upu> I can send you my Eagle breakout which fits ?
[08:15] <Upu> if anything the pads are too long
[08:16] <Upu> Darkside
[08:17] <Upu> See http://i.imgur.com/AOEYy.jpg
[08:21] <Upu> got your mail I'll print it off at work and check this afternoon ~ 6 hours
[08:22] <Darkside> Upu: eagle breakout won't be too useful
[08:22] <Darkside> i mean, i made mine from teh datasheet
[08:22] <Darkside> so it shoudl eb fine
[08:22] <Upu> me too
[08:23] <Upu> and I think the pads are too long
[08:23] <Darkside> i made my pads a bit longer too
[08:23] <Darkside> but i made mine longer intentionally
[08:23] <Upu> check the picture I' mean there is nothing wrong it it
[08:23] <Upu> when you've been soldering small stuff it all seems a bit excessive when you can actually fit the whole tip on a pad :)
[08:24] <Darkside> pff
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[08:27] <Darkside> anyway, if you could check the pads that'd be great
[08:27] <Darkside> i need to get these pcbs manufactured ASAP
[08:29] <Upu> sure will do
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[08:31] <Darkside> Upu: something else: could you possibly get a quote on 5 LEA-6T modules from alpha micro?
[08:31] <Upu> how soon do you need them ?
[08:32] <Upu> As I'll be putting an order in for some more MAX6's soon and I can use that to get hte price down
[08:32] <Darkside> hrmm
[08:32] <Darkside> i'm looking at prices atm
[08:32] <Darkside> i know they're fuckign espensive modules
[08:32] <Upu> but its a few weeks away unless someone buys 10 breakouts
[08:32] <Darkside> hehe
[08:32] <Upu> I'll get a price for you on Monday
[08:32] <Darkside> i don;t need them *really* soon
[08:32] <Darkside> awesome
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[08:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu can´t find info on todays launch, can you tell me abit about it?
[08:54] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[08:54] <Upu> see where it says SHARP Sun 18/03 ...
[08:54] <Upu> click that
[08:54] <Upu> Should take you here :https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ukhas/VAOsyYbUEK0
[08:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i must be blind, dont see that
[08:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh stupid me, just needed a reload
[08:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thanks
[08:57] <Upu> :)
[08:57] <Upu> now is KF4ZTi actually up or is that just random test data ?
[09:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 9½hours since last data, so random i would think
[09:05] <Upu> I just zapped it
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[09:07] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[09:09] <Upu> Morning team SHARP still on track for 11am ?
[09:10] <Graeme_SHARP> Morning All,Probably not, we are still in Southampton doing some last minute troubleshooting....current earliest time would be around 1pm I would guess.
[09:10] <Upu> ok no problems
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[09:23] <griffonbot> @vk5gr: @GoPro Chk out this music video from Skipping Girl Vinegar http://t.co/AwaF27Xw @sgvband - high altitude balloon with GoProHD #ProjectHorus [http://twitter.com/vk5gr/status/181309897047162880]
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[09:26] <Colin-G81MV> Now *this* is a real HAB story http://southgatearc.org/news/march2012/test_jump_from_21_8_km.htm
[09:27] <Graeme_SHARP> Just keep anyone with an interest updated - our transmitter seems to have developed a bit noise of since we tested it successfully on Monday. Effectively our bit length is being a bit inconsistent and varying between the target 3.3ms (300 baud) and at times up to 4.5ms :/ Trouble shooting it now!
[09:28] <Colin-G81MV> Is this for this mornings launch?
[09:28] <Graeme_SHARP> Yep.
[09:28] <Colin-G81MV> ok, keep us informed - I'll go pump my mast up in a bit
[09:28] <daveake> Timing by timer interrupt?
[09:28] <Colin-G81MV> Do you have a launch ETA yet?
[09:29] <Graeme_SHARP> ETA is about 3 hours after we leave Southampton looking at 1pm at earliest at the moment.
[09:30] <Colin-G81MV> OK
[09:32] <Graeme_SHARP> daveake: Honestly not to sure - I'm just gleaming what I can from the guys who know what they are talking about with regards to comms who are trouble shooting behind me - it worked fine on Tuesday and we haven't changed anything since :(
[09:35] Nick change: Colin-G81MV -> Colin-G8TMV
[09:36] <Colin-G8TMV> I wish I knew why my callsign keeps getting couroupted
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[09:59] <Morseman> I'll probabably have to set the FLdigi in unattended again if 1pm launch
[10:00] <Morseman> Problem is that after an hour or so DL-Fldigi becomes so clunky I have to reboot the PC
[10:01] <Morseman> Oh dear - 300 baud again - at that rate number of decodes is usually low here
[10:03] <Colin-G8TMV> Depends on the conditions - I often have better luck at the higher baud rates because you get more chance of seeing a whole packet before the QSB ramps the signal down
[10:03] <Colin-G8TMV> of course it does depend on the speed of the QSB
[10:06] <LazyLeopard> I find the higher baud rates trickier. They seem to need a slightly stronger cleaner signal, and they're a bit more work for the laptop.
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[10:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[10:06] <jonsowman> moening
[10:06] <Lunar_Lander> just came home from Bielefeld
[10:06] <Morseman> Mind you - worse still is just one TX per a number of faster ones as no time to align before it's half way through preamble
[10:06] <Lunar_Lander> can I go to bed or are launches commencing?
[10:07] <fsphil-laptop> Lunar_Lander, both :)
[10:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[10:07] <Lunar_Lander> but SHARP isn't on the tracker
[10:07] <fsphil-laptop> it'll be later today
[10:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[10:08] <Lunar_Lander> when roundabout?
[10:08] <LazyLeopard> Friday's was trackable at 300 once it got high enough and I put up the yagi, but I only got 50 on the colinear and on the yagi until the payload got reasonably high.
[10:09] <LazyLeopard> LL three hours or so to go.
[10:09] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[10:09] <Lunar_Lander> so I can try to sleep a bit
[10:09] <fsphil-laptop> I managed the 300 baud surprisingly well. a first for me
[10:09] <Lunar_Lander> does anybody know what the balloon carries?
[10:09] <Lunar_Lander> I assume only a GPS
[10:10] <fsphil-laptop> unknown
[10:10] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[10:10] <Lunar_Lander> btw the discussion in the ASTRA thread is interesting
[10:10] <Lunar_Lander> as I had also suggested to try to talk with the Met Office
[10:11] <Lunar_Lander> about insurances/cooperation
[10:11] <LazyLeopard> <Graeme_SHARP> 09:29 : ETA is about 3 hours after we leave Southampton looking at 1pm at earliest at the moment.
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[10:11] <Lunar_Lander> OK; thanks
[10:11] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[10:12] <Lunar_Lander> dealextreme finally made it to ship my new audio wire
[10:12] <fsphil-laptop> ah, you can track my next flight if it goes that far :)
[10:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[10:13] <Lunar_Lander> I am still missing my stabo and the old audio wire and stuff
[10:13] <Lunar_Lander> Raul said that he shipped that stuff to me
[10:13] <Lunar_Lander> I'll mail him again
[10:17] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[10:17] <Lunar_Lander> cu later maybe
[10:25] <Morseman> Off now - CUL all>>
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[10:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Aerospace "[UKHAS] XABEN Flight Announcement Saturday 17th March"
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[10:49] <fsphil-laptop> hehe, Steve Aerospace
[10:50] <NigelMoby> lol
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[10:58] <Graeme_SHARP> Hey All, Still troubleshooting - for what I can tell it appears one of the other threads running on flight computer (added since we completed the comms test earlier in the week) is interfering with transmission thread - causing the poor timing of the bits.
[10:59] <NigelMoby> uhoh, hope u find a fix, or we can supply u a nice new hammer :)
[10:59] <Darkside> threads?
[10:59] <Darkside> what is the flight computer?
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[11:00] <jonsowman> Darkside: gadgeteer iirc
[11:00] <Darkside> which is?
[11:00] <jonsowman> Graeme_SHARP: use timers!
[11:00] <Bob_G8NSV> morning all
[11:00] <jonsowman> Darkside: google it... microsoft .NET thing
[11:00] <Darkside> oh god its written in .NET
[11:00] <NigelMoby> morning bob
[11:01] <Matt_soton> the quick fix is to only transmit 50 baud Graeme_SHARP
[11:01] <Darkside> or don't use threading...
[11:01] <Darkside> collect data -> construct sentence -> transmit -> goto start
[11:02] <Bob_G8NSV> hoping to hear something today as launch is over 100km closer than the Cambridge ones!!
[11:02] g7waw (568ad284@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.138.210.132) joined #highaltitude.
[11:02] <Graeme_SHARP> jonsowman: We are using timers - unfortunately with the gadgeteer implementation the stand .NET ones are replaced by a Gadgeteer specific one which isn't quite as good. :(
[11:03] <griffonbot> @NigeyUK: PicoChu-4 launch postponed until next weekend, troubleshooting powersaving code! #ukhas [http://twitter.com/NigeyUK/status/181334910102020097]
[11:03] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: SatCommController appears to be functional! Amazing progress this week, thx to Chorgy, Steamfire, BillP and crew-darn near complete! #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/181334914556370945]
[11:03] <jonsowman> Graeme_SHARP: "not as good" meaning non-functional?
[11:03] <jonsowman> it's the simplest thing you could want to do with a timer
[11:03] <jonsowman> i.e. wait until it expires then interrupt
[11:03] <Graeme_SHARP> Matt: 50 baud, although better - is not completely clean either
[11:04] <jonsowman> in fact you don't even need to interrupt
[11:04] <jonsowman> just busy wait until it expires
[11:06] <Graeme_SHARP> Honestly Jon, I'm not too sure - just reporting what I've been told. :) Rich and Andy are busy tweaking at the moment.
[11:06] <jonsowman> i've been speaking to Andrew Graeme_SHARP
[11:06] <jonsowman> apparently you are using timers now
[11:06] <jonsowman> hopefully that will sort it
[11:07] <jonsowman> Graeme_SHARP: is there a reason you're using gadgeteer? something like an AVR would be 10% of the effort and 5% of the cost...
[11:09] <Graeme_SHARP> 5% of free? :p We're getting sponsorship through Microsoft Research - and it seemed like a good idea at the time :)
[11:09] <Darkside> .NET is never a good idea
[11:09] <jonsowman> Graeme_SHARP: oh i see
[11:09] <jonsowman> still, it's not suited for a HAB payload really
[11:09] <jonsowman> as you have found out it seems
[11:10] <Darkside> i would have just programmed the ARM micro directly..
[11:10] <jonsowman> hopefully using hardware timers should sort it out
[11:10] <Darkside> in C.
[11:10] <jonsowman> that would have worked...
[11:10] <jonsowman> :)
[11:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> when i do a autoconfigure for Sharp, its set for 300/23, that cant be right?
[11:10] <fsphil-laptop> 23hz means they're using a custom shift
[11:11] <jonsowman> OZ1SKY_Brian: there's a bug in that version of dl-fldigi
[11:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes bit 23hz?
[11:11] <fsphil-laptop> the old dl-fldigi can't set them ,so defaults to 23
[11:11] <Matt_soton> not sure a ARM9 with 32MB of RAM would have been enough tbh. may want something faster Darkside
[11:11] <jonsowman> set the shift manually OZ1SKY_Brian
[11:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh ok
[11:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> tnx
[11:11] <Darkside> Matt_soton: hmm maybe, those UKHAS sentences can get pretty long
[11:11] <NigelMoby> lol
[11:11] <jonsowman> lol 32MB telemetry string
[11:11] <Darkside> :D
[11:12] <x-f> with pretty pics!
[11:12] <Matt_soton> at least the payload will stay warm
[11:12] <fsphil-laptop> I do pics with 8k ram ;)
[11:12] <jonsowman> :)
[11:12] <Bob_G8NSV> what is the correct shift?
[11:12] <jonsowman> Bob_G8NSV: err.. good question
[11:12] <jonsowman> hold on
[11:13] <jonsowman> Bob_G8NSV: 325
[11:13] <Bob_G8NSV> thanks!
[11:14] <griffonbot> @GoProFinnFilms: RT @vk5gr: @GoPro Chk out this music video from Skipping Girl Vinegar http://t.co/AwaF27Xw @sgvband - high altitude balloon with GoProHD ... [http://twitter.com/GoProFinnFilms/status/181337822375059456]
[11:14] <Graeme_SHARP> None of us really have a substantial electronics background, so we wanted something not too involved. (We're all Aerospace engineeris - so our structure is probably massively over designed!)
[11:15] <Graeme_SHARP> That may have backfired on us though....
[11:15] <Darkside> not too involved?
[11:15] <Darkside> .net?
[11:15] <Darkside> >_>
[11:15] <jonsowman> Graeme_SHARP: yeah you haven't made it easy for yourself as 'beginners'
[11:15] <Graeme_SHARP> I should of contexted that with 'on the hardware side' :)
[11:16] <jonsowman> AVR + NTX2 radio + some GPS would have been the best choice
[11:16] <jonsowman> fyi, for next time
[11:16] <jonsowman> :)
[11:16] <Dutch-Mill> Morning Yall, so its : 50 baud 325 shift 8N2 ?
[11:16] <jonsowman> Dutch-Mill: correct
[11:16] <Dutch-Mill> Tknz
[11:16] Action: Laurenceb_ orders dvbt dongle
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> will find out if it works shortly
[11:17] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: i'd hold off on that for a sec
[11:17] <Matt_soton> Graeme_SHARP: you could have just borrowed a ASTRA AVR board if your project isnt about the electronics so much
[11:17] <Darkside> not all of them have the E4000 tuners
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> i know
[11:17] <Darkside> the one i bought has a FC0012
[11:17] <Darkside> which isn't supported yet
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> im going to try an ezcap666
[11:17] <Darkside> mm ok
[11:17] <Darkside> can't wait until someone writes a gnuradio source block for them :-)
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> off cozycave.co.uk
[11:17] <Darkside> because i'm goign to oversample the shit out of mine
[11:17] <Darkside> get the bits up
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> i suspect FC0012 can easily be hacked together to work
[11:18] <Laurenceb_> the problem is the decoder ic
[11:18] <Laurenceb_> i dont know if anything other than realtek can do passthrough
[11:18] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: yeah means modifying the drivers
[11:18] <Darkside> for the I2C commands
[11:18] <Matt_soton> or soldering a wire to the FC0012's outputs?
[11:18] <Laurenceb_> RTL2832U
[11:18] <Darkside> Matt_soton: nah, it can be done in software
[11:18] <Laurenceb_> is what you want
[11:18] <Darkside> i mean, theres a linux driver for the one i have
[11:19] <Darkside> i just need to make the rtl-sdr software work with it
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: im not sure how many decoder ics do passthrough
[11:19] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: this card has the RTL chip
[11:19] <Matt_soton> oh the one that isnt the FC then, never mind
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> most have fft and constellation mapping
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> oh
[11:19] <Darkside> the tuner is the FC0012
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: it should be doable
[11:19] <Darkside> yeah
[11:19] <Darkside> just requires work :P
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> all the tuner ics register headers are out there
[11:19] <Darkside> still, a 3MS/s 8-bit SDR isn't too bad
[11:20] <Darkside> 48dB of SNR is a bit shit tbh
[11:20] <Darkside> but with decimation that'll go up.... hmm
[11:20] <Darkside> what can we get out of it
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> surely its not that simple
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> as you have loads of bandwidth
[11:20] <Darkside> its 48dB of SNR at 3MHz bandwidth
[11:20] <Darkside> as its I/Q samples...
[11:20] <Darkside> so.....
[11:21] <Darkside> we gain one bit with every decimate by 2
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> my cc1020 works nicely with 3 bit adc
[11:21] <Graeme_SHARP> If we haven't fixed it by 12 we're aborting for day - so you don't have to waiting for a balloon that isn't going up the Air. :)
[11:21] <jonsowman> alright Graeme_SHARP
[11:21] <jonsowman> let us know if you can :)
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> but - if theres a strong local carrier the agc adjusts to prevent adc saturating
[11:21] <Matt_soton> Darkside: sure not one bit every 4x reduction?
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> thats my problem with cc1020 atm
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[11:24] <Matt_soton> Graeme_SHARP: cant you launch with a slightly dodgy rtty transmitter and use the gsm backup?
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[11:25] <Graeme_SHARP> No GSM backup. :D
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[11:25] <Matt_soton> oh :P
[11:26] <x-f> backup on first flights might be essential ;)
[11:26] <Graeme_SHARP> We're aware of that, hence our stringent testing regime. :)
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[11:29] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: it is 1 bit per /2 isn't it?
[11:29] <Laurenceb_> cc1020?
[11:29] <Darkside> i mean in general
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> 3bit adc on I and Q
[11:30] <Darkside> decimation
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> well...
[11:30] <Darkside> you gain a bit of resolution when you divide by 2
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> yeah i guess thats true
[11:30] <Matt_soton> im fairly sure its 1 per /4 :P
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> only to white noise
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> not if there is a carrier
[11:31] <Darkside> hrmm
[11:31] <Darkside> ok
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: but the adc has to adjust on the front to stop the adc saturating
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> thats my problem
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[11:31] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: i'm not talking about the CC1010
[11:31] <Darkside> i'm talking about in general
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> is seem to have enough bits
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> yeah im just sayting from my experience
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> with something with a lot of decimation and few bits
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> it doesnt work brilliantly due to agc
[11:32] <Darkside> ok, so with a 3MHZ IQ sample rate
[11:32] <Darkside> if you decimate down to just 3KHz of bandwidth, you get 13 bits of resolution
[11:33] <Laurenceb_> if its white nois eyes
[11:33] <Darkside> yeah
[11:33] <Darkside> some of th stuff i'm working with is effectively white noise anyway
[11:34] <Laurenceb_> but i should have 10bits on my cc1020
[11:34] <Laurenceb_> effectively
[11:34] <Laurenceb_> but it isnt anything like that good
[11:34] <Laurenceb_> due to agc
[11:35] <Laurenceb_> having said that... if i play around with the agc a bit, something i havent tried yet
[11:35] <Matt_soton> from our lecture notes: For every quadrupling of the over-sampling ratio N, we achieve an extra bit in resolution
[11:35] <Matt_soton> but assuming white noise
[11:35] <Laurenceb_> yeah its basic statistics
[11:35] <Laurenceb_> but i dont think its quite going to work like that
[11:35] <Laurenceb_> as its never totally uncorrelated
[11:36] <Matt_soton> so real systems will be less or more then x4?
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> yess
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> *less
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[11:37] <Matt_soton> i see
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Especially if there is co-channel interference
[11:37] <Laurenceb_> cc1020 has 3bit adc at 2Msps -> agc feedback and dsp filtering
[11:37] <Laurenceb_> so the agc is very fast
[11:38] <Laurenceb_> and uses the 3bit values
[11:38] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately i think theres only feedback coefficient control registers
[11:38] <Matt_soton> shame that thing doesnt put out raw analogue IQ as well as the ADC digital ones
[11:38] <Laurenceb_> or id try setting it to just use the lowest bit most of hte time or something
[11:39] <Laurenceb_> it does
[11:39] <Laurenceb_> but without hacking the pcb you can only get 8 bit
[11:39] Action: Laurenceb_ grabs cc1020 datasheet
[11:40] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:waterfall_2atlas.png?cache=
[11:40] <Laurenceb_> see the vertical banding, thats the agc
[11:41] <Matt_soton> i assume x axis is time then
[11:41] <Darkside> ok, i have confirmed all the new footprints i'm using on this board are OK..
[11:41] <Darkside> phew
[11:41] <Darkside> i have also set myself up for a world of pain
[11:41] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/Yisv8.jpg
[11:42] <Laurenceb_> Matt_soton: yes
[11:42] <Graham_G3VZV> sorry to interrupt...do we have a launch this morning/today?
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[11:43] <daveake> ISH
[11:43] <daveake> .NETISH
[11:43] <Colin-G8TMV> Graham_G3VZV: latest estimate was 1pm
[11:43] <Graham_G3VZV> tnxs
[11:43] <daveake> I've not seen confirmation that it's fixed, and it's 3 hours from that point because of the distance
[11:43] <LazyLeopard> ...at the earliest. ;)
[11:46] <LazyLeopard> 11:21 <Graeme_SHARP> : If we haven't fixed it by 12 we're aborting for day - so you don't have to waiting for a balloon that isn't going up the Air. :)
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[11:47] <LazyLeopard> ...so I guess we should hear in quarter of an hour or so if it's NOT fixed.
[11:47] <jonsowman> hopefully
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[11:50] <Bob_G8NSV> good luck with the fix guys
[11:52] <Matt_soton> mind you 'fix' implies it was working in the first place
[11:52] <jonsowman> lol
[11:56] <Matt_soton> i assume if benoxley was on the rdc earlier and is gone i can play
[11:57] <benoxley> still on
[11:57] <Matt_soton> oh i thought you had left
[11:57] <Matt_soton> also didnt mean to type that into ha
[11:57] <benoxley> trying to set up rdc on my tablet
[11:57] <benoxley> :D
[11:58] <Matt_soton> its fine kicking you off, i thought andras might be using it
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[12:04] <_Hix> go? no-go?
[12:05] <jonsowman> we don';t know yet _Hix
[12:05] <_Hix> ok, thought they were calling it at 12 assume 12 ISH
[12:06] <Colin-G8TMV> 12 HAB time - ie anytime up to about 1500 UTC
[12:08] <_Hix> :D
[12:08] <jonsowman> that's 1500UTC tomorrow
[12:09] <Matt_soton> so andrew_apex_Mob news?
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[12:10] <andrew_apex_Mob> We're having issues with counting ticks - we get random long delays every now and then
[12:14] <Colin-G8TMV> andrew_apex_Mob: This is in software somewhere?
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[12:15] <andrew_apex_Mob> Yup - in the gadgeteer code
[12:15] <Colin-G8TMV> Hmm... can I suggest that you cancel then - any software change at this stage can't really be tested properly before launch
[12:16] <Darkside> +1
[12:16] <Colin-G8TMV> especially as you have a long trip to the launch site
[12:17] <andrew_apex_Mob> Yeah, pretty sure we'll have to cancel
[12:17] <Colin-G8TMV> andrew_apex_Mob: well please do so officially - that way people don't have to hang around any more and can get on with other things
[12:18] <benoxley> fl-digi on a tablet :P http://t.co/NzSxANmW
[12:18] <jonsowman> eroomde: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6846507122/in/photostream
[12:18] <jonsowman> joey flight computer solderd up ^
[12:19] <Colin-G8TMV> benoxley: are you aware you can do sound in and out on the headphone socket - it just needs a couple of components
[12:20] <benoxley> Colin-G8TMV: yeah, although porting the sound to the remote computer may be interesting
[12:20] <Colin-G8TMV> why?
[12:20] <benoxley> well on the move anyway
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[12:20] <benoxley> it's only a remote desktop client
[12:21] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: Joey-M flight computer soldered up http://t.co/eNvgkfJu #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/181354629135728640]
[12:21] <Colin-G8TMV> Ah, ok, I thought maybe you had it running natively - which would be good for portable psk31 and rtty use
[12:21] <benoxley> nah, that would be amazing if I could...
[12:21] <Colin-G8TMV> jonsowman: that looks reaaly good
[12:22] <benoxley> someone is porting linux to run natively on tablets
[12:22] <jonsowman> :)
[12:22] <fsphil-laptop> proper linux on one might be enough to make me buy one
[12:22] <jonsowman> i'm quite pleased with it
[12:22] <Colin-G8TMV> benoxley: well I know at least one person has sound input to a tablet and a waterfall display working
[12:22] <benoxley> awesome :D
[12:23] <Colin-G8TMV> benoxley: http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/2012/03/
[12:23] <Colin-G8TMV> ipod-touch-external-mic-success.html
[12:23] <benoxley> I've got a fft app but I want to work on doing rtty decode in java over the summer when I have more time
[12:23] <Colin-G8TMV> ben - see link and sorry about it getting split/wrapped
[12:23] <benoxley> no worries
[12:23] <benoxley> looks good :)
[12:24] <benoxley> I can manage that bit... it's just writing an app to do all the magical things fl-digi does that is difficult
[12:24] <benoxley> off for a few hours, bye!
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[12:26] <r2x0t> http://www.atom1945.com/IphoneDevelopment/HamRadio/HamRadio.html
[12:26] <r2x0t> apps for decoding rtty and psk31 on iDevices
[12:27] <r2x0t> no 8N1 ASCII tho
[12:27] Action: Colin-G8TMV wants a version that can Tx too
[12:37] <cuddykid> going to try and finish getting this pico tracker soldered up
[12:39] <Bob_G8NSV> no launch news yet?
[12:40] <Colin-G8TMV> Bob_G8NSV: Nope
[12:40] <fsphil-laptop> I think it was cancelled
[12:40] <Bob_G8NSV> not cancelled yet they are still working on the software snag
[12:40] <Colin-G8TMV> Not officially yet - but it's now 40 mins past the deadline they set
[12:41] <Bob_G8NSV> maybe some progress then I hope?
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[12:41] <Colin-G8TMV> Bob_G8NSV: the only thing thay are achieving atm is pissing off the trackers by not telling us what is happening
[12:41] <_Hix> i found this http://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:google_cal
[12:42] <_Hix> Any chance someone could add the plugin to the wiki?
[12:42] <fsphil-laptop> it's not always easy to keep the channel up to date
[12:42] <Bob_G8NSV> I'm sure they are busy trying to fix it
[12:43] <Colin-G8TMV> No - but it's important and andrew_apex_Mob was not helping with the software as far as I was aware
[12:44] <Colin-G8TMV> Does anyone know if this is a Uni project of some sort or is it just a Uni-based club of HABers?
[12:45] <Matt_soton> its a 4th year design project Colin-G8TMV
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: I'm just reading cc1020 datasheet, i think i can improve performance by changing the vga control
[12:46] <Colin-G8TMV> Matt_soton: are you part of it?
[12:46] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: or disable it
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> so most of the time only the lsb is flipping on the adc
[12:46] <Matt_soton> Colin-G8TMV: nope
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> that way strong inband signals wont kill the thing
[12:47] <Colin-G8TMV> Matt_soton: well someone who is needs to make a statement about what is happening
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> lol colin
[12:47] <Matt_soton> i think just assume its off tbh
[12:48] Action: Colin-G8TMV wonders if their tutor is observing
[12:50] <navrac> the difficulty is that there is an enormous amount of self applied pressure on launch days and sometimes you get so engrossed trying to solve the problem that you loose track of time. I did my best to keep peole up to date, but I still left long gaps aswith communicating while I tried to solve things
[12:51] <Matt_soton> i cant see how they can solve this one in a short space of time
[12:51] <navrac> If its a 4th year project then its probably a one man show with a few helpers
[12:51] <Matt_soton> they have 7 people, but i think only two of them know whats going on with the programming
[12:51] <Colin-G8TMV> My view is that if things start to go wrong on launch day then the *first* thing you should be thinking about is scrubbing the launch.
[12:51] <Bob_G8NSV> Agreed navrac, Im sure they are more concerned with solving the problem and applying a fix
[12:52] <navrac> its one of those things that could take minutes or days -
[12:52] <Colin-G8TMV> I know it's hard but it saves other people wasting time and makes your chance of success much higher
[12:52] <Graeme_SHARP> As you could probably have guessed we are not going to be launching today. Provisionally looking a next weekend to try again (following a full week of 24/7 troubleshooting and testing.)
[12:52] <navrac> I agree with you there -
[12:52] <navrac> good luck
[12:52] <Bob_G8NSV> Its a good introduction to the real world where you dont have the luxury of going away for a few days. People expect results asap
[12:53] <Colin-G8TMV> Graeme_SHARP: Thankyou for the info
[12:53] <Matt_soton> i got bored so i powered up my 2nd tracker, impressive how a bit of wire held to the antenna port can go through my house and reach the reciever 1km away
[12:53] <Colin-G8TMV> navrac: I don't care if it's a quick fix or a complete rebuild - anything that goes wrong is cause to think about a scrub
[12:54] <Graeme_SHARP> We felt it was something can could have been fixed with correcting a line or two of code, unfortunate that wasn't the case.
[12:54] <Colin-G8TMV> Graeme_SHARP: any code changes need testing - not likely you can do that properly on launch day
[12:55] <Colin-G8TMV> Bob_G8NSV: You *always* have the choice to delay
[12:55] <Colin-G8TMV> Anyway, lunch then other stuff
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[12:56] <navrac> I've mad my living having to do things thast can't always be tested and having to make them work for a specific date and time - if they aren't ready then they are no use
[12:56] <Bob_G8NSV> in the real world when customers are paying sadly you dont. Not if you want a nother contract from them, tyheres a big difference between a few hours and a week
[12:56] <Graeme_SHARP> The reason we are not too keen on scrubbing at the drop of the hat is we have a deadline for when we need to get things done. (As Matt mentioned we are a 4th year project) we have to have got results and turn in our report in 4 weeks, so unfortunately we don't have the luxury of unlimited time
[12:57] <Bob_G8NSV> just like a commercial situation Graeme!
[12:59] <Bob_G8NSV> Academic research projects have the luxury of time. The man with the money does not usually extend that luxury to the rest of us. Solving probl;ems on the fly (or not as the case may be) is good real world experience.
[13:01] <Bob_G8NSV> Well done guys good luck next time
[13:03] <Graeme_SHARP> Indeed Bob. We have had 12 team members working 18 hours days for the past week testing a getting as many of bugs out as possible - very frustratingly for us (and for all you guys who were hoping spend your Sunday afternoons tracking our Balloon - which we very much appreciate by the way) one slipped through the net.
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> What's gone wrong?
[13:04] <fsphil-laptop> slipped through the .net? :)
[13:04] <daveake> :)
[13:04] <Graeme_SHARP> fsphil-laptop: :D
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> good luck
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: it looks rather more complex than i hoped for
[13:05] <Laurenceb_> page 76 of the datasheet
[13:05] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: can't disable the AGC?
[13:05] <Laurenceb_> yes but thats a bad idea
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[13:06] <Laurenceb_> i think i can do something - limit the agc gain using VGA_SETTING[4:0]
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[13:06] <Laurenceb_> so that in the limit of no interference it tends to ~1lsb noise only
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> then set lots of averaging so its slow, and use VGA_SETTING[4:0] and CS_LEVEL
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> so that gain is only decreased when it has really big signla for some time
[13:08] <Bob_G8NSV> Graeham_SHARP I didnt see the problem. You were doing what anyone in the real world would have done as navrac said stuff has to be ready. Customers are happy with small delays, its the big ones they dont like. Even NASDA have delayed launches for a few hours if they thought the problem could be solved
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[13:14] <Graeme_SHARP> Darkside: Unfortunately as we said we are on a very tight schedule - we would have loved to down a full test last week - just not possible!
[13:14] <Darkside> but the morning of launch?
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[13:15] <Bob_G8NSV> I hope to be flying some "pico" (sub 2 metre rule) Solar payloads later in the year. They will be at the mercy of the British weather so the delays there could be far worse HI!!
[13:15] <Graeme_SHARP> daveake: Indeed - very much a learning experience for us all (ultimately why we are doing it) :)
[13:16] <Graeme_SHARP> Darkside: Well if 2 am counts as morning - then yes :) (I personally haven't slept in about 36 hours!)
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[13:18] <Elmar_PD3EM> good afternoon all
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[13:19] Nick change: zeusbot_ -> zeusbot
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[13:20] <Bob_G8NSV> Again Graeham_SHARP, well done mate and dont let it get you down. You have learnt a lesson that in the real world things dont go to plan, and I know you did all you could to fix it. thats how things are in a commercial situation. Engineers are alway in the thick of it, dumped on by salesmen promising customers unrealistic delivery schedules and such. You have had valuable experience that as...
[13:20] <Bob_G8NSV> ...Engineers you WIL be working under pressure to solve problems (usaully not of your own making) under extreme pressure. "another week" is just not something you will have, or you most likely will need another job!! Keep at it its valuable experience
[13:20] <radicalbiscuit> will SHARP be USB or LSB (or SSB at all)?
[13:21] <Bob_G8NSV> Im off out now see all later tonight for as chat. Bob
[13:22] <radicalbiscuit> Or, I assume, from reading Bob's message, that the launch is off?
[13:22] <Bob_G8NSV> sadly yes
[13:23] <Graeme_SHARP> Check the logs radicalbiscuit - I've just explained everything. :)
[13:23] <Bob_G8NSV> cheers Graeham
[13:23] <Graeme_SHARP> and thanks Bob, Have a great day!
[13:23] <radicalbiscuit> Thanks, I was heading toward them already
[13:23] <upic> hey
[13:23] <Upu> Maybe next time Graham
[13:23] <upic> whats going on
[13:24] <Bob_G8NSV> will do and will chat again, dont letit get you down mate!!
[13:24] <Morseman> That's a shame but better luck with next one
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[13:25] <Upu> I updated Spacenear.us so hopefully people will stop asking
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:25] <Upu> If you do decide to go next weekend please speak to us as we don't want frequency clashes
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> Well - :( about lauch
[13:26] <Graeme_SHARP> Will do Upu
[13:27] <Graeme_SHARP> Right guys, I'm going to go get some sleep - if you want to the face behind my name - we have a new video up at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHHeOpNwYbw&context=C4f867c5ADvjVQa1PpcFPbdyjBHjWg5bIxo9OerBg_g_zr5U8tEFc= :)
[13:27] <Graeme_SHARP> Thanks for your support - this is a great community!
[13:28] <radicalbiscuit> Get some sleep! Best wishes to you and your team. Hope to hear you in the air soon
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[13:36] <upic> erm i saw in that video that they have gps module outside the thermal insulation
[13:36] <upic> wouldn't it freeze at high altitude and stop working?
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> If it's an antenna - perhaps on a PCB - it'll likely be fine
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> If it's a GPS module, it may not work properly at very low temp
[13:38] <upic> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sHHeOpNwYbw#t=272s
[13:38] <upic> this moment
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[13:43] <Dutch-Mill> I'm off seeY next weekend... not too much 'isshing' then i hope ;-) @SHARP team good luck..
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[14:05] <Laurenceb_> whats KF4ZTI?
[14:11] <Laurenceb_> whats KF4ZTI??
[14:11] <Laurenceb_> how does the SHARP uplink work?
[14:26] <upic> is yaesu ft7900r is just a newer version of 790R one? and do yaesu handhelds do SSB?
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[14:32] <fsphil-laptop> ft7900r only does FM
[14:32] <fsphil-laptop> afaik no yaesu handheld does ssb
[14:34] <upic> ah :/
[14:36] <fsphil-laptop> you could by a scanner if you won't want to transmit
[14:38] <fsphil-laptop> I don't know exact models but some AOR or Yupiteru handheld scanners can receive 70cm ssb
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[14:41] <r2x0t> all better AOR scanners like 8200 have SSB
[14:41] <r2x0t> but it's rx only
[14:41] <r2x0t> and stability isn't that good
[14:42] <r2x0t> AR8600 is better and still portable but not so handeld
[14:44] <fsphil-laptop> ft-790 might be the better bet if you can get one
[14:45] <fsphil-laptop> Postage to: Worldwide
[14:45] <fsphil-laptop> Excludes: <very long list of countries>
[14:45] <r2x0t> lol typical
[14:45] <fsphil-laptop> ain't it
[14:45] <fsphil-laptop> they've listed half the planet
[14:46] <number10> hows the payload build goin Upu
[14:47] <fsphil-laptop> Kenwood TH-F7E also does ssb
[14:47] <r2x0t> btw I have done some modulation tests of things I talked before
[14:48] <r2x0t> found that viterbi coded MSK needs about half SNR than current FSK
[14:48] <r2x0t> and it's doable using RFM22B
[14:50] <cuddykid> oops - ripped a pad off the rfm22b
[14:50] <cuddykid> hopefully the solder joint is ok.
[14:50] <r2x0t> what is the cheapest source for RFM22B in EU ?
[14:58] <UpuWork> not bad number10
[14:58] <UpuWork> just come to work to do some soldering
[15:00] <UpuWork> ping Darkside
[15:00] <UpuWork> I can't get this PDF to print at 1:1
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[15:09] <cuddykid> does anyone have a quick test sketch that I can run to test if rfm22b is wired up correct etc?
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[15:17] <Laurenceb_> r2x0t: hi
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> ive had mfsk-64 working
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> works very nicely
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[15:20] <r2x0t> you made it compatible with olivia or other mode? or just custom mode?
[15:20] <r2x0t> MFSK is good, but need good receiver stability and no tx drift
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[15:25] <navrac> hmm the last one of those laregly rules out hab
[15:25] <cuddykid> where does the library function "boolean rfm22:setFreq&.." get added?
[15:25] <navrac> nick it out the rfm22 library and cut and paste into the rf22 lib
[15:26] <navrac> sorry - other way round even
[15:26] <cuddykid> into the c++ file?
[15:26] <navrac> i did
[15:27] <cuddykid> cheers
[15:28] <cuddykid> got to declare it as public in the header file aswell by the looks of it
[15:28] <navrac> yep
[15:29] <navrac> its a bit naughty as the library is then non standard, but its the sort of thing i dont want messing up the main code
[15:29] <daveake> After a day cutting foam and sniffing glue ... http://imgur.com/a/qhKsN
[15:29] <cuddykid> In file included from HABE_PICO.cpp:2:
[15:29] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[15:29] <cuddykid> RFM22/RFM22.h:46: error: extra qualification 'rfm22::' on member 'setFrequency'
[15:30] <daveake> navrac / cuddykid What I did too :)
[15:30] <cuddykid> ahh I see, oops
[15:30] <cuddykid> me being a noob with c++
[15:30] <cuddykid> yay, it compiles :D
[15:30] <daveake> That's a start :)
[15:30] <navrac> yep i struggle with c++ too - some of my code is 'interesting'
[15:30] <cuddykid> oh no, it doesn't..
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> r2x0t: using fldigi
[15:30] <cuddykid> lol
[15:31] <navrac> think the cup should form part of the payload daveake
[15:31] <cuddykid> no setup()
[15:31] <daveake> lol
[15:31] <daveake> There are 4 photos in the group btw
[15:31] <daveake> And the glass probably weighs as much as the rest of it :D
[15:31] <cuddykid> right, now it compiles
[15:31] <daveake> "no it doesn't"
[15:31] <cuddykid> daveake - that looks good!
[15:32] <daveake> "oh yes it does"
[15:32] <number10> I notice there is a bit of streamlining going on with that payload daveake
[15:32] <daveake> Every gram counts :p
[15:32] <navrac> you like your table hot wire cutter don't you
[15:32] <daveake> ^^
[15:32] <daveake> Correct :)
[15:33] <r2x0t> this is current modulation I'm working on, raw throughput is 75Bd 8bit data:
[15:33] <r2x0t> sample signal without noise: http://www.r00t.cz//75Bd_no_noise.wav
[15:33] <r2x0t> same signal buried deep in noise, still decoding fine: http://www.r00t.cz//75Bd_still_good_copy.wav
[15:33] <navrac> http://www.polycraftsupplies.co.uk/ - my favourite place
[15:34] <cuddykid> damn, nothing on the radio :/
[15:34] <navrac> I like the cylinders, everything is going to be cylindrical - apart from the cones of course
[15:34] <daveake> Looks like a fun place :)
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[15:34] <daveake> cuddykid try dialing up and down
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[15:36] <navrac> trouble is - that low down in the noise you wouldt know whether you were tuning it...
[15:36] <navrac> flying visit from rocketboy
[15:36] <r2x0t> not really, you can see it on fft clearly
[15:36] <daveake> burst early
[15:36] <navrac> hmm better avoid those sort of jokes....
[15:36] <daveake> :)
[15:36] <daveake> I do feel for him - 2 in a row like that
[15:37] <cuddykid> what's the digital 5 pin doing in setupRadio()
[15:37] <cuddykid> ?
[15:37] <navrac> yeah trouble is it becomes a confidence thing - happens twice then after that it wont go up at all
[15:38] <navrac> (sorry)
[15:39] <daveake> Oh, that *was* deliberate :)
[15:39] <cuddykid> arghh
[15:39] <cuddykid> this is annoying
[15:39] <navrac> if its jcoxons original code then i think its just a leftover
[15:39] <navrac> unless its the cs pin
[15:40] <daveake> I think is is CS
[15:40] <daveake> it
[15:41] <daveake> (checks) It's the "SDN" line on the RFM22B
[15:42] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Need to measure satellite modem ctrlr's 5v power rail voltage ripple today with oscope. Any tips? #UKHAS #EE #oscilloscope [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/181405126026731521]
[15:42] <navrac> well that one get nailed firmly to a rail ( which one i cant remember - probably gnd)
[15:42] <daveake> GND = On Hi = OFF
[15:43] <navrac> I wont trust that one to code..
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[15:43] <daveake> Yeah I'll gnd that on the next one.
[15:43] <daveake> it'll save a few mm of wire :)
[15:43] Nick change: ok -> Guest96534
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[15:44] <navrac> stick scope across supply and use ac coupling - then turn the big knob marked gain up... some of these whitestar tweets are really a bit dull.
[15:44] <cuddykid> avrdude: verification error, first mismatch at byte 0x0000
[15:44] <cuddykid> 0x0c != 0xff
[15:44] <cuddykid> avrdude: verification error; content mismatch
[15:44] <cuddykid> ?
[15:45] <navrac> I couldnt get excited about his 5v reg not giving 5v yesterday either - I must be a heartless bstard
[15:45] <daveake> lol
[15:45] <navrac> unplug, quit the compiler - unplug and replug ftdi
[15:46] <navrac> and after that start desoldering peripherals...
[15:46] <cuddykid> I wonder is it because the radio is connected to the mosi/sck etc pins too?
[15:46] <daveake> I think I should tweet too, for today it would be "Forgot to connect the ext temp sensor and had to cut a flap to connect it". Riveting stuff (except I taped the flap down; didn't use rivets)
[15:46] <Elmar_PD3EM> my first Arduino test for future camera control: http://yfrog.com/h843511083j
[15:47] <navrac> only if they are shorted or similar - or the supply is off or gnd missing
[15:47] <cuddykid> hmm
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[15:48] <navrac> I think we should all do it
[15:48] <navrac> realised dc wont go thru a diode backwards..
[15:49] <daveake> Ah so that's what they do :D
[15:49] <navrac> I know, tricky stuff
[15:49] <navrac> worth tweeting about so others learn from it
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> http://www.smooth-on.com/index/view_tb.php?products_id=0093
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> cant stop laughing
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> "Smooth-On’s skin effects systems such as Psycho Paint® "
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> they know wholl be buying it then
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[15:55] <cuddykid> would my problem be because I'm powering the arduino off USB (via USBtinyISP programmer)?
[15:56] <daveake> no
[15:56] <daveake> yes
[15:56] <daveake> maybe
[15:57] <daveake> How much oomph behind that?
[15:57] <daveake> And how much do you have available at 3V3?
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[15:59] <daveake> I've run rfm22b trackers from a "DR Robot" FTDI programmer, with no problem
[16:01] <navrac> me too - whats the processor board?
[16:06] <navrac> looking at the tinyisp the supply out is straight from the usb - so the volt reg on the arduino will be the limiting factor.
[16:06] <navrac> which is normally 50mA so plenty
[16:06] <navrac> unless you havent put in level shifters on the lines to the rfm
[16:08] <cuddykid> hmm
[16:08] <cuddykid> no, just normal setup
[16:09] <navrac> which arduino board?
[16:09] <cuddykid> pro mini
[16:10] <navrac> 3v3? or 5v?
[16:11] <navrac> the usbtiny i've seen was a 5v device - so i presume you are feeding that into the raw input and the 3v3 to the rfm?
[16:12] <cuddykid> 3v3
[16:12] <cuddykid> yep, going to raw
[16:13] <cuddykid> then 3v3 to rfm
[16:13] <navrac> should be fine
[16:13] <navrac> the rfm takes tiny power on start up
[16:13] <cuddykid> nothing whatsoever on the radio
[16:14] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/MtXBn1d2
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[16:37] <daveake> cuddykid; for now just turn Tx on at 434.2 and remove all the stuff after. Then check your wiring
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[17:15] <Upu> number10 https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203Ava2Build#
[17:15] <Upu> And new launch "platform" : http://i.imgur.com/8rJzE.jpg
[17:16] <number10> nice Upu
[17:16] <Upu> cuts are a bit messy I need to make a better hot wire rig
[17:18] <number10> looks like you are all ready to go
[17:18] <x-f> Upu, you will be using an UV filter for the camera?
[17:19] <Upu> yes x-f that what the sticky out bit is
[17:19] <Upu> with dew heater on it
[17:19] <x-f> ah, clever
[17:19] <Upu> if it works
[17:20] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201203Ava2Build#5721285032373945858
[17:20] <Upu> note the PP3 clip and the taped up bit
[17:20] <Upu> thats about 2.5m of transformer copper wound round the end of the lense
[17:21] <Upu> camera is a bit of a porker but it has the ability to lock filters in place
[17:21] <number10> will be interesting to see
[17:21] <Upu> yeah
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[17:22] <Upu> also going to leave the lot in a box with 10 packets of silica gel for the next week
[17:22] <BrainDamage> how much extra do you pay for that shade of pink?
[17:22] <Upu> you can't buy that shade of pink*
[17:22] <Upu> *you can its about £12 a roll
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> Upu: why silica gel in?
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> I mean for a week
[17:23] <HixPad> Ello ello
[17:23] <Upu> remove as much moisture as I can
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> It'll just absorb from the atmosphere.
[17:23] <Upu> yeah might make some difference
[17:23] <Upu> no idea just making this up as I go along tbh
[17:23] <HixPad> Anyone know if you can use ASCII characters in the dAta that the ntx2 broadcasts?
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> Bake the gel a few hours before the flight, then drop it in.
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> HixPad: It's not really baudot
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> HixPad: It's rs232 - 7n1
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> Or is it 7E1
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> I forget
[17:24] <x-f> i was thinking of using a UV filter for the camera, only keeping the it a couple of centimeters from the payload side to allow free air flow between it and the camera lens
[17:25] <Upu> if it mists it mists but the last photos I took were just a tad washed out : http://ava.upuaut.net/files/IMG_6480_stitch.jpg
[17:25] <HixPad> So it an only be az 0-9
[17:26] <r2x0t> HixPad: if it's 7bit, then you can use 0-128, if it's 8bit, then 0-255, but don't expect fldigi to parse binary data
[17:26] <number10> how well does the lense extender fit to the camera
[17:26] <HixPad> Right you are then
[17:26] <r2x0t> for fldigi, you will have to stick to printable chars
[17:26] <Upu> the Canon A710 has a locking ring on it, you remove this "blanking panel" and it locks like an SLR lense to it
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[17:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:27] <Upu> sec I'll show you
[17:27] <HixPad> Hi Lunar_Lander
[17:27] <Lunar_Lander> Mr. Gauck is our new president
[17:27] <Lunar_Lander> and SHARP was scrubbed
[17:27] <Lunar_Lander> and that is all I know so far
[17:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi HixPad
[17:27] <number10> thats enough though Lunar_Lander , I was struggling to keep up
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[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:28] <x-f> Lunar, you don't use your president a lot anyway :)
[17:28] <Upu> lol
[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> Upu: Also - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dew_point
[17:29] <Upu> number10 - http://i.imgur.com/uhpYw.jpg
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> in other news, my professor suggested not to use a mechanical relay in the cutdown circuit but rather a MOSFET
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[17:30] <Upu> Your professor is correct
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> You will note that at 25C, to get it not condensing at 0, you need a RH of ~20%
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> cheaper and more current
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> 20 A for sparkfun relay
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> 50 A for MOSFET
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[17:30] <SpeedEvil> Selecting which FET is hard.
[17:30] <Upu> that A710 is a bit chunkier than the A560 but does have image stabalisation, again unsure what difference this will make
[17:30] <number10> looks like it fits quite well, I was just wondering how easy it would be to flush the air out at launch -
[17:30] <Upu> cheer SpeedEvil
[17:30] <Upu> number10 easy but we can't do it with H2
[17:31] <daveake> good point :)
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> You need to deeply understand the datasheet - if rds(on) is specced at 3.3V, you can't assume it's OK at -40C
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> You need to look at the worst case.
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> One FET I found would - with worst-case - possibly not even conduct enough current to self-heat much with worst-case MCU output at temp.
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> self-heat the FET up to the point where it will conduct normally
[17:32] <daveake> Yeah the self-heating is a useful property :)
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[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> but there are ones that run at 3.3V (room temperature)?
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[17:35] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:35] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Working today on mission control livecd settings, satcom simulator link, and satcom power measurements #UKHAS http://t.co/NkHp5wwF [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/181433615270424576]
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> But the gate threshold voltage rises quite rapidly with temperature
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> and falls with freezing temperature?
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> err
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> rises quite rapidly with falling
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah, it's inversely proportional
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> No.
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> no, it's just inverse
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> I think proportional to the square of absolute
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> I forget
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> OK, I'll have a pizza now
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the suggestions, I'll probably be back later
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> (to quote an Austrian actor from one of the best movies ever made)
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> Tehre is the very silly hack.
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> If the gate voltage is not enough tor apidly tuyrn it on, add a 1.5V button cell in series with the gate.
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> thanks!
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[17:57] <HixPad> Been looking at the fas03 guide on the wiki, does anyone have any old flight computer sketches they would be willing to let me have a read thorough
[17:58] <HixPad> So I can get an idea of how to go about getting something written for my launch
[17:58] <HixPad> Once I've started to get a handle on coding
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[18:47] <Laurenceb_> hmf
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> ordered eztv666 off cozycave.co.uk
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> but im not sure its the right device
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> theres no 668 anywhere
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> but the teardown photo shows 668 on the pcb
[18:48] <NigeyS> this the SDR useable tv dongle thingy ?
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[19:07] <gonzo_> been away all day. Did the sharp team get aloft?
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> NigeyS: the maybe usable one, yes
[19:08] <NigeyS> oo, awsome, i have 3 usb dongles here, but theyre all hauppage and useless :/
[19:14] <LazyLeopard> gonzo_: Nope.
[19:18] <gonzo_> cheers
[19:22] <daveake> gonzo_ No, called off
[19:23] <gonzo_> shame for them, but glad I'd not missed it
[19:24] <gonzo_> what was the prob?
[19:24] <daveake> The rtty was getting random additional delays
[19:25] <gonzo_> hmmm, software has a lot to answer for!
[19:25] <gonzo_> is cloud one of youre dave?
[19:25] <daveake> yep
[19:25] <gonzo_> yours
[19:25] <gonzo_> ah, nice one (or three!)
[19:26] <daveake> If the wind prediction sorts itself out it should be a good day
[19:27] <daveake> Quite a lot going on with 2 balloons, 3 payloads, and SMS link to spacenear
[19:27] <daveake> Hopefully the launch will have a live video lead
[19:29] <gonzo_> that wouyld be good. I was looking at that myself when it comes to my turn.
[19:30] <gonzo_> though depends on internat access at launch site
[19:31] <daveake> Indeed. Might need to get wifi there for that :) if 3 has no 3G coverage there
[19:31] <gonzo_> btw, the site I'm thinking of at the moment is a public area. Is there any knowledge of such things in the group?
[19:31] <daveake> The others are 2D only
[19:31] <daveake> 2G
[19:36] <Laurenceb_> is it working now then?
[19:36] <Laurenceb_> the rtty?
[19:37] <Upu> Anyone know if Chinese make fake DS18B20's and I'm going to get shafted if I buy these : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pcs-DS18B20-18B20-TO-92-1-Wire-Digital-Thermometer-/300557056022?pt=UK_AudioElectronicsVideo_Video_TelevisionSetTopBoxes&hash=item45fa98b816#shId
[19:40] <daveake> I bought some for about the same price on ebay recently. Have used one and it works, at least at room temperature. I'll aim some freezer spray at one to check
[19:40] <NigeyS> goood way to test dave! :D
[19:40] <daveake> Mine were supposed to be from UK but took so long to arrive I got a refund.
[19:40] <Upu> ok I'll give it a shot
[19:40] <daveake> Then they arrived
[19:40] <daveake> How many do you need?
[19:41] <Upu> 6 or so I'll buy them no worries
[19:41] <Upu> 98p each
[19:41] <daveake> ah ok
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[19:41] <Upu> beats Farnell..
[19:41] <daveake> 2-3 you could have :) 6 get 'em yourself :p
[19:41] <Upu> haha
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> I've idly wondered that you can actually do micro + thermistor + ... cheaper than a DS*
[19:42] <Upu> purchased
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> I also really want a way to buy 1-wire ID numbers
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> For example, I'd like to make some IR temperature seneors
[20:11] <griffonbot> @NigeyUK: RT @project_swift New post: Build Update #2 - A child is born :-) http://t.co/Av4hkvMx #ukhas [http://twitter.com/NigeyUK/status/181473014053994497]
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[20:29] <edmoore> Anything new today?
[20:30] <NigeyS> hey eroomde
[20:30] <NigeyS> dont think so, the launch earlier was potponed :/
[20:31] <edmoore> Ah well
[20:31] <NigeyS> how's you're day been ?
[20:31] <edmoore> Good
[20:31] <edmoore> Brunch with a friend in idlin
[20:31] <edmoore> Islington
[20:32] <Upu> evening
[20:32] <edmoore> Lunch with another in shep bush
[20:32] <NigeyS> oh cool, more exciting than mine then :D
[20:32] <NigeyS> wb upu
[20:32] <edmoore> And dinner with sister in fulham for her g'day
[20:32] <edmoore> Bday
[20:32] <edmoore> Can barely breathe
[20:32] <NigeyS> upu post is up, might need editing .. http://t.co/Av4hkvMx
[20:32] <NigeyS> eek
[20:32] <Upu> reading
[20:33] <Upu> using my Sunday name :)
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[20:33] <daveake> edmoore you'll be needing to get back on that bike after that eat-a-thon!
[20:34] <edmoore> Hell yes
[20:34] <edmoore> Carb loading, as fitter people than I call it
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[20:38] <Morseman> NigeyS now I understand the question.. The answer is duplexer http://www.anatechelectronics.com/products.aspx?sc_state=86&sc_page=0&sc_cat=3876&sc_search=
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[20:41] <Morseman> Unfortunately, they can also be called diplexers as well... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplexer
[20:43] <Morseman> Is Swift an all in one unit for GPS/computer/TX?
[20:44] <Graeme_SHARP> For anyone curious as to why we scrubbed earlier today: http://projectsharp.co.uk/blog/archives/218
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[20:45] <andrew_apex> I hate gadgeteer :D
[20:48] <Graeme_SHARP> Hehe, andrew :) - I've probably simplified it a bit and not quite captured the details but http://projectsharp.co.uk/blog/archives/218 - I couldn't quite come up with a better description for you than RF consultant
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[20:50] <edmoore> What is a gadgeteer?
[20:50] <andrew_apex> "Microsoft .NET Gadgeteer is a rapid prototyping platform for small electronic gadgets and embedded hardware devices. It combines the advantages of object-oriented programming, solderless assembly of electronics using a kit of hardware modules, and quick physical enclosure fabrication using computer-aided design."
[20:51] <andrew_apex> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/gadgeteer/ - it's a little like arduino, but using the .NET framework
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[20:58] <Morseman> Graeme_SHARP Thanks for the explanation - I had set up for unattended monitoring so good luck with the next launch minus the timing/baud issues
[21:02] <Morseman> Is there a board that integrates GPS/TX with some form of sorting NMEA to transmitted sentence in DL-FLDigi without needing to program it, or have some form of PIC that can be programmed?
[21:02] <Morseman> I can solder but not programme...
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[21:04] <edmoore> Not in a bad way, just the idea of a large framework on a small micro controller makes me think I must be missing something
[21:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morseman: A Kenwood TM-D72 or Yaesu VX-8 ....
[21:06] <x-f> Morseman, programming is not that hard, there are lots of examples around from other HABbers, and there's #highaltitude always to help out
[21:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morseman: but it sents out APRS ;-)
[21:07] <Graeme_SHARP> SpeedEvil: I noticed in the logs you were discussing what looked liked a PCB on the outside of our platform earlier (from the tethered test video) - just to confirm that is indeed the GPS Antenna and it was just like that because we hadn't got around to cutting the mounting whole for it (which has now been done) it now has a nice snugg fit looking upwards :)
[21:07] <Matt_soton> btw Graeme_SHARP the astra tracker should be able to pick up the payload if you wanted to test it when andrew isnt around
[21:10] <Graeme_SHARP> We had thought about that Matt, who would we ask to get access to it as we would probably want to test out a few different fldigi profiles? Also can it Tx as we hope to be doing a significant amount of uplink testing this week?
[21:10] <Morseman> Elmar_PD3EM I wouldn't like to loose one of those in the north sea thought...
[21:11] <Matt_soton> is it in front of you know to turn on?
[21:11] <Matt_soton> ask andras, and it cant transmit
[21:11] <Matt_soton> also you can modify the rtty details manually in the program
[21:11] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morseman: me neither... I won't put my TM-D72 under a balloon. I like to keep it for some hiking in the mountains ;-)
[21:12] <Morseman> I used to have a Kenwood TH-D7 that I used for APRS but it didn't send RTTY...
[21:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> I think the APRS over Europe is too busy to get through with low power, although it would be nice to test
[21:13] <Graeme_SHARP> Nope, most of our team is asleep now anyway! :) And cool, we'll ask Andras tomorrow if he's up for letting us use it. I'm guessing it has http style remote interface?
[21:13] <mfa298> Graeme_SHARP: I've also got the kit that should be able to recieve the radios stuff (Rich and Rhys should know who I am as do andrew_apex and jake)
[21:13] <Matt_soton> Graeme_SHARP: is remote desktop
[21:14] <Matt_soton> *its
[21:14] <Morseman> x-f If I could set up a board for under 100 quid and know that I could flash a PIC (or whatever) I'd go for that over trying to program...
[21:15] <Graeme_SHARP> Matt: Nice. :) and mfa298: Cheers Mike, we'll keep that in mind (although I'm sure Rhys and Rich already have you in mind :) )
[21:16] <mfa298> quite probably
[21:16] <Morseman> I even struggle to get LEDs to light of PICs that I've programmed with 'standard' routines on PICs but I can wire up a multivibrator to do it twice as fast as the PIC was going to do it ;-)
[21:17] <Matt_soton> Morseman: someone should be able to provide you with a generic program and board which you can use
[21:18] <Morseman> Matt_soton great, if you know who and what boards I'd be interested...
[21:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morseman: I just started with an Arduino board. A lot of example code available
[21:21] <Morseman> OK Elmar_PD3EM I looked at various Arduino systems mentioned on here. The problem is that the guys who can code seem to assume a level of ability I don't possess...
[21:21] <Matt_soton> Morseman: this is my board, all you have to do is apply powre and itll tranmsit its location and log to SD card http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/IMG_2069.JPG
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Graeme_SHARP: Ah - right. If it's jsut the antenna outside, it shouldn't generally be an isue.
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[21:22] <Matt_soton> most people will have something similar, and most of us have boards left over as seeed will give you 10
[21:23] <Matt_soton> it probably needs a revision to use a ublox mind you
[21:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morseman: I can code a little bit (not as good as many other around here) but the Arduino code is quite easy to understand
[21:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> Matt_soton: very nice complete board!
[21:23] <chris_99> http://www.wimp.com/camerarocket/
[21:23] <daveake> Women. Having just completed my payload housing with neat holes for the cameras, I proudly showed the result to Mrs Dave and got "Oh, you've made a birdbox"
[21:23] <Matt_soton> annoyingly you cant get those BNCs any more
[21:24] <Morseman> Matt_soton OK - How do I get hold of one of those borads please?
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> daveake: :)
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> daveake: Make another, and stick it on a wall. Nice and insulated.
[21:24] <daveake> :D
[21:25] <Matt_soton> are you ok with soldering surface mount is the other thing?
[21:25] <Morseman> Elmar-PD3EM I'm afraid that when it comes to stacks, carries, and FIFO I glaze over and that HTML looking stuff is almost a closed book - sorry to say
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[21:28] <Morseman> Matt_soton prefer not SMD if possible but I have done a bit - hate those square multipin units though. Would need to find someone who can flow solder round here I would guess?
[21:28] <Matt_soton> your best bet is to probably find someone who has a through hole board
[21:28] <Morseman> That would be good
[21:29] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morseman: I can imagine that... I'm not very good in soldering..... so everyone is good in a few things ;-)
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[21:36] <Upu> oh firefox updated there must be a day in the day
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[21:41] <Morseman> I don't even mind having to connect a few boards together, I've built projects in the past from 50 and 70MHz transverters to small transceivers and stuff like that - It's the progamming I just can't get my head round
[21:41] <Morseman> Unless it's a case of "load this file and send it to that chip" type stuff
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[21:46] <Upu> Just watching Steve drive round in that Anglia, lol
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[21:50] <Upu> Is Gilbert on here ?
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[21:51] <Morseman> OK - I'll keep looking for the board that does it all and has files to send to the PIC/controller
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[21:54] <Elmar_PD3EM> Morseman: it would be great if a board comes available that does it all! would be easier for me as well ;-)
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[21:58] <Graeme_SHARP> Elmar, Morseman: If our design is proven to work well one of the advantages of Gadgeteer is we can just give our list of modules/custom circuits to a fab house and have a bunch off the production line within a week. :) We've been quoted £200-£250 per board for a run of 5, reducing with higher order numbers. :) So if our project goes very well (thats a big if!) - 4 weeks down the road
[21:58] <Graeme_SHARP> we might have one!
[21:58] <edmoore> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3719710 bottom comment
[22:01] <Darkside> 250 pounds for a flight computer!!!!!!!
[22:02] <Darkside> jaysus
[22:02] <Darkside> mine cost about AUD$60
[22:03] <Graeme_SHARP> True abit steep for hobbyist....but in academia that is pocket change. Thats not just computer though - thats built in GPS, RF (Rx and Tx), a bunch of sensors, cutdown
[22:04] <Darkside> uhh
[22:04] <Darkside> same here
[22:04] <Graeme_SHARP> Fair enough then. :)
[22:04] <Graeme_SHARP> I'm curious - what are you running then?
[22:05] <Darkside> AVR + ublox NEO-6Q + radiometrix modul
[22:05] <Darkside> simple, reliable
[22:05] <Graeme_SHARP> Self assembled?
[22:05] <Darkside> yes
[22:05] <Darkside> smd soldering is easy
[22:05] <Graeme_SHARP> Not for everyone. :)
[22:06] <Darkside> its not hard to learn
[22:06] <Graeme_SHARP> Ours is plug in in the batteries and away you go!
[22:07] <Upu> £250 ?!!?!?!?
[22:07] <Upu> Swift is a £100 and thats pushing it
[22:07] <danielsaul> Gadgeteer is ridiculously expensive
[22:08] <Upu> Graeme_SHARP http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ava.jpg
[22:08] <Upu> ~£50 and has everything you just mentioned including cut down
[22:08] <Darkside> gasgeteer is *ridiculously* overpowered for balloon payloads
[22:08] <Darkside> nad has the added benefit that the PLL might loose lock during flight, like the beaglebones
[22:10] <Graeme_SHARP> True...Gadgeteer is a bit overpowered (and corresponding expensive).
[22:10] <Graeme_SHARP> I'm curious Upu, is £50 assembled or just component cost?
[22:10] <Upu> Well I assemble it myself
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[22:10] <Upu> Did this one : http://i.imgur.com/l3dZ1.jpg in about an hour
[22:11] <Upu> thats a complex board with dual transmitters the parts on that are just shy of £100
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[22:11] <Darkside> Graeme_SHARP: i don't think anybody gets their boards assembled elsewhere, because we're all doing small runs
[22:11] <Darkside> and its very expensive to do so
[22:11] <Graeme_SHARP> In that cause I'm in awe of your soldering skills! :) That would probably take me about a week.
[22:11] <Darkside> Graeme_SHARP: practice
[22:12] <Darkside> SMD soldering isn't anywhere near as hard as it looks
[22:12] <danielsaul> Graeme_SHARP: What actually made you pick gadgeteer over anything else?
[22:12] <Elmar_PD3EM> I can't solder it that nice Upu ! But I'll give it a try with my Arduino board (and your GPS pre-assembled) ;-)
[22:12] <Upu> Graeme_SHARP how long have you got to do this ? You could come up to Yorkshire for £250 and I'll show you how to solder that board
[22:13] <Upu> have you got a PCB design ?
[22:13] <Graeme_SHARP> Danial: 1 its free for us (Microsoft have a research partnership with the university) and there is already a bit of community surrounding us in the university
[22:13] <danielsaul> Ah - makes sense
[22:14] <Elmar_PD3EM> I'm gonna use the Arduino Pro mini, NTX2, uBlox GPs and some wires ;-0
[22:14] <Upu> all it needs
[22:14] <daveake> +1
[22:14] <Upu> but if you're getting them free why not
[22:15] <Upu> please don't think we are critising Graeme_SHARP, just paying £250 for a tracker board seems alittle excessive
[22:15] <Upu> suspect you've had a busy weekend :/
[22:16] <Graeme_SHARP> 2 - We're not electrical engineerings (all Aerospace/Spacecraft Students) - our electronics skills are severely limited (you'll notice all our custom stuff is done on stripboard!)
[22:16] <Upu> and you have to use the Gadgetter thingy ?
[22:17] <danielsaul> Yep
[22:17] <danielsaul> That's why you hire andrew_apex as a slave to do it all :P
[22:17] <danielsaul> lol
[22:17] <Upu> kinda cheating but you could plug a swift or ava board into that via its expansion sockets and just code it up to pass the GPS and sensor data through :)
[22:18] <Upu> swift/ava expansion sockets
[22:18] <andrew_apex> Upu - we thought of that, but how to pass the data?
[22:18] <Upu> serial ?
[22:18] <andrew_apex> serial is really hard
[22:18] <Upu> is it ?
[22:18] <andrew_apex> due to the random timing issues
[22:18] <Graeme_SHARP> Haha Daniel, Andrew has been very useful!
[22:18] <Upu> even when using hardware UART S?
[22:19] <Upu> send the data digitally 50 baud RTTY :)
[22:19] <andrew_apex> Upu: the issue is that during a serial transmission (counting timer ticks for timing), the gadgeteer will decide it wants to do something else and it'll go off and do other stuff
[22:19] <Upu> lol
[22:19] <Upu> really ?
[22:19] <Upu> I have a plan
[22:19] <andrew_apex> Upu: we're (not that I'm in the team :P) already using the hardware UART
[22:20] <Upu> borrow one of Darkside micronuts and glue it to the bottom and cover it up
[22:20] <Matt_soton> well any standard OS will do that, its just not a real time OS
[22:20] <Upu> install blink.c on the gadgetter
[22:20] <Upu> job done
[22:20] <andrew_apex> :P
[22:20] <andrew_apex> it all works now :D
[22:20] <Graeme_SHARP> And Upu: I know you're not critizing us - most of didn't know anything about HABing before November, so any feedback (Critical or otherwise) is very much welcome!
[22:21] <Upu> if its doing that its multitasking and if its doing that can you not priority the serial ?
[22:21] <Elmar_PD3EM> my first tests today for programming the shutter for a camera (without using a camera): http://www.pd3em.com/files/images/DSC03894.jpg
[22:21] <Upu> is it multitasking ?
[22:21] <Darkside> simple = best.
[22:21] <Darkside> thats it
[22:21] <Upu> with Darkside
[22:21] <Upu> KISS
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[22:21] <r2x0t> you really need FIFO UART when doing multitasking
[22:22] <Upu> Elmar_PD3EM you know you can use CHDK and the camera can control itself ?
[22:22] <Upu> if you have a Canon ofc
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[22:22] <Upu> Well you won't be the first or last engineers who have to make the wrong tool for the job work Graeme_SHARP :)
[22:23] <Elmar_PD3EM> Upu: i used an opto coupler now... how about CHDK?
[22:23] <danielsaul> andrew_apex: Was the DT situation mentioned in your chat yesterday btw...?
[22:23] <danielsaul> Woops
[22:23] <danielsaul> ignore
[22:23] <danielsaul> wrong channel
[22:23] <Upu> CHDK can install on the camera's SD card and boot up to it and run custom scripts
[22:23] <Upu> like take a pic every 10 seconds, take 30 sec video etc
[22:24] <daveake> Graeme_SHARP The problem is that unless you're using real-time functions of the O/S that guarantee your timing code will happen within the timing constraints you need for the rtty, then it may work now but it'll stop working as soon as someone adds a new software module that grabs the CPU for long enough to mess the timing up again.
[22:24] <Elmar_PD3EM> Upu: that sounds realy nice!
[22:24] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=78
[22:25] <Elmar_PD3EM> Upu: i'll need to put that on my reading list for tomorrow ;-) I'll get an "old" canon friday for testing
[22:25] <Upu> yeah anything really the A560 is a good start, light and takes AA's
[22:26] <Elmar_PD3EM> Thanks for the tip Upu!
[22:26] <Upu> right off to walk the mutt bbs
[22:34] <griffonbot> @sgvband: RT @vk5gr: @GoPro Chk out this music video from Skipping Girl Vinegar http://t.co/AwaF27Xw @sgvband - high altitude balloon with GoProHD ... [http://twitter.com/sgvband/status/181508854218096640]
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[22:40] <Morseman> There's a economic sliding scale - £250 per unit might be too much but nearer £100 might be more acceptable - price elasticity of demand...
[22:41] <Upu> in fairness if you charge for your time thats actually a reasonable price
[22:42] <Matt_soton> also i was wondering whether that 250 included the core gadgeteer board or jus tthe custom modules
[22:42] <Morseman> Upu If I charge for my time in my world, that kills the project unless I can amortise the work across several projects
[22:43] <Morseman> In reality, the salesmen say what they think the market can stand and my boss tries to get enough jobs to more than cover the costs plus margin
[22:49] <Morseman> I think what is the problem here is how do you incorporate the R&D costs...
[22:50] <Matt_soton> well for us thats part of the fun :P
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[22:54] <Elmar_PD3EM> Matt_soton: +1 :-)
[22:54] <Morseman> Matt_soton Only as long as there's some project/sales opportunity that will allow some of this R&D to become revenue in the future...
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[22:56] <Elmar_PD3EM> almost Monday here... time to go... alarm goes in 6 hours :-(
[22:57] <Elmar_PD3EM> good night all
[22:57] <Morseman> I should say here that I'm a big fan of original research. That research can and has provided stuff that no one knew was going to be 'useful' economically but was, and even that which wasn't economically viable was/is still worthwhile
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[22:59] <Matt_soton> tbh i dont think anything ground breaking as been done yet
[22:59] <Matt_soton> on the radio side we're barely pushing any boundarues
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[00:00] --- Mon Mar 19 2012