[00:00] <zindello> Give you guys a chance to catch up
[00:00] <zindello> Gives*
[00:00] <zindello> You guys going to go south or South-East/
[00:00] <zindello> ?* God damn it!
[00:01] <Darkside> going to miningie
[00:02] <Darkside> meningie
[00:02] <Darkside> then heading east from there
[00:02] <zindello> Fair enough
[00:02] <zindello> Oh
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[00:02] <zindello> Also
[00:02] <zindello> My IGate is going to be the primary Melb gate for a while it seems too.
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[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
[00:02] <zindello> 7km/h
[00:03] <vk5gr> nearly at the ferry where are you mark?
[00:03] <zindello> Ferry?
[00:03] <Darkside> vk5gr: about 10km behind
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> did I write any nonsense in the last 30 minutes?
[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> I was afk and when I returned the screensaver locked uß
[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> up
[00:04] <Darkside> zindello: look ar our speed
[00:04] <Darkside> >_>
[00:05] <zindello> Is Terry trying to break the max speed of that thing?
[00:05] <zindello> See THIS is where you should have my V8 :P
[00:05] <Darkside> pff
[00:05] <vk5gr> on the ferry
[00:05] <zindello> I know for a fact she'll pull 180 absolutely no worries ;)
[00:05] <Darkside> ok vk5gr
[00:05] <vk5gr> with luck it will go over and back and be ready for you guy
[00:06] <Darkside> yuop
[00:06] <zindello> -52!?
[00:06] <Darkside> yeah
[00:06] <Darkside> normal
[00:06] <Darkside> its the internal temp i'm liking
[00:06] <zindello> transmitter keeping it warm?
[00:06] <Darkside> pff
[00:06] <Darkside> no
[00:06] <zindello> Just the fact it's still operating at that low temp?
[00:07] <Darkside> yeah
[00:08] <nigelvh> As long as your solder joints are good, they generally work fine down there. We like to test our payloads to -50 to -60 C in the thermal chamber
[00:08] <nigelvh> Not that they generally get there during the flight.
[00:08] <zindello> What payload is this Mark?
[00:08] <Darkside> yeah, we've had payloads work down to -40 i think
[00:08] <zindello> micronut?
[00:08] <Darkside> yeah, micronut
[00:08] <Darkside> our 'standard' uhf micronut
[00:09] <zindello> Yeah
[00:09] <zindello> Like the one you lost at lca :P
[00:09] <Darkside> yeah
[00:09] <Darkside> ok waiting at the ferry
[00:10] <vk5gr> made it across and over the other ide
[00:10] <vk5gr> dont pay the ferryman till you gety here remember!
[00:10] <Darkside> pff
[00:10] <Darkside> yeah i see you're moving
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> habhub says there is a "Introducing Project Horus" video?
[00:11] <Darkside> uhmm
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[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> YES!
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> my free day stuff is already in germany
[00:13] <nigelvh> You got free day money?!
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> back in January, yes
[00:13] <nigelvh> Damn you
[00:14] Action: fsphil-laptop has flashbacks... the captchas .... the captchas....
[00:14] <nigelvh> That was terrible
[00:14] <nigelvh> I liked last year's quiz better.
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[00:15] <Darkside> feeeery, across the murrrray
[00:16] <zindello> How long does the ferry take?
[00:16] <zindello> Wow it's slowed right down ..
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD waiting for the ferry
[00:16] <Darkside> we're on the ferry
[00:16] <Darkside> lol
[00:16] <Darkside> 5kph! WOOOOOOOO
[00:16] <Darkside> (our speed)
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> the red car is on the ferry right?
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> why no bridge there?
[00:17] <Darkside> nfi
[00:17] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: because we're in australia
[00:17] <zindello> No
[00:17] <Darkside> and we don't like bridges
[00:17] <zindello> It's because you're in South Australia :P
[00:17] <Darkside> burn
[00:17] <fsphil-laptop> lol
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[00:18] <NigeyS> lol
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:18] <zindello> Does the predictor re-calculate based on the current or configured ascent rate?
[00:19] <pschulz> Nice drive to the coorong..
[00:20] <vk5gr> no bridge because not enough traffic on that road
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:20] <Darkside> ok on the higheay
[00:21] <Darkside> highway
[00:21] <Darkside> vk5gr: is that red and white tower one of yours?
[00:22] <vk5gr> yup
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[00:23] <zindello> It's turned ..
[00:23] <schofieldau> hey again
[00:23] <zindello> Terry think he's driving a rocket ship again?
[00:23] <Darkside> >_>
[00:23] <zindello> Holy hell!
[00:23] <Darkside> whaat
[00:23] <schofieldau> haha 130KM
[00:23] <Darkside> we're overtaking
[00:23] <zindello> reported speed then was 130
[00:24] <zindello> Lol
[00:24] <Darkside> hey, we had 139 before
[00:24] <zindello> Oddly enough, the 180 in the SS was overtaking too :P
[00:24] <zindello> But an A-Triple road train :P
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[00:24] <vk5gr> inutah that was still legal (85mph on the freeway in open county in some places)
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[00:25] <zindello> He's still tearing along!
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[00:25] <Darkside> >_>
[00:25] <zindello> It's warmed up ..
[00:26] <zindello> Presume because it's slowed down?
[00:26] <schofieldau> haha a speeding ticket would slow things down
[00:26] <Darkside> no, because its above the tropopause
[00:26] <zindello> So we won't see you for the Vic Champs, or Mt G?
[00:27] <Darkside> dont think so
[00:27] <zindello> You were our best competition :P From a non-vic team that is.
[00:27] <Darkside> lol
[00:27] <zindello> Certainly the most high-tech :P
[00:27] <vk5gr> not this year - committed to the WIA AGM presentation in May
[00:27] <zindello> Ah yeah
[00:27] <zindello> There's a possibility I may be coming to that.
[00:27] <vk5gr> dont have the time to backup for mtg as well :-(
[00:28] <zindello> But I've already told Mark I'm not interested in a new radio
[00:28] <zindello> Bummer :(
[00:28] <Darkside> damn, loosing signal
[00:28] <Darkside> getting under the balloon
[00:28] <Darkside> damn nulls
[00:28] <zindello> 1/4 wave upside down?
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> vk5gr: OHH that is just 3 mph below the speed at which time travel begins!
[00:30] <zindello> "If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit. "
[00:30] <nigelvh> Not giving up on that Back to the Future stuff there are you Lunar_Lander?
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> XD yeah
[00:30] <Darkside> ok moving again
[00:30] <Darkside> took a pee break
[00:31] <vk5gr> 'love thatn film :-)
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:32] <Darkside> vk5gr: how are you guys going with the cross-dipole?
[00:32] <zindello> Looks like you're catching up.
[00:32] <Darkside> we're having signal issues here
[00:32] <zindello> Almost 25km
[00:32] <zindello> Mark: You know what you're problem is, you don't have 30m of RG-58 XD
[00:32] <vk5gr> darkside planning similar in meningie if this caravan ever gets out the way - sympathise with topgear's view on caravans
[00:32] <Darkside> haha
[00:33] <Darkside> zindello: also the payload is running 6dB less power than the one we flew in ballarat
[00:33] <Darkside> well, the vhf one
[00:33] <zindello> Yeah
[00:33] <zindello> I thought you'd appreciate the joke though ..
[00:33] <Darkside> yup
[00:34] <zindello> Looks like the wind up there is pretty turbulent
[00:34] <zindello> doing circles
[00:34] <zindello> I need to convince Liesh to go on a Holiday to SA when you do a launch again, leave her with one of the Horus XYLs and have a bit of fun.
[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> south africa or south australia?
[00:36] <zindello> South Australia
[00:36] <VK5ZEA> I'm getting some good decodes now...
[00:36] <Darkside> pff i'm not
[00:36] <Darkside> we're below the bloody thing
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[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> so in the dipole dead zon
[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> +e
[00:37] <Darkside> yes
[00:37] <Darkside> in the null
[00:38] <zindello> What type of antenna are you running?
[00:38] <Darkside> we have a 1/4 wace on teh roof
[00:38] <zindello> On the payload
[00:38] <Darkside> vk5zm's car has a cross dipole
[00:38] <Darkside> 1/4 wave with ground plane
[00:38] <zindello> Mmm
[00:38] <Darkside> standard
[00:38] <zindello> Have you tried a horizontal dipole?
[00:38] <Darkside> naw, then you get polarisation fading
[00:38] <Darkside> as it spins
[00:38] <zindello> Ah
[00:39] <Darkside> oh hey, its a caravan
[00:39] <Darkside> nevermind
[00:39] <Darkside> just pased it
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[00:39] <zindello> That's ok, Terry's rocket ship should make light work of tha ....
[00:39] <Darkside> haha
[00:39] <Darkside> yep
[00:39] <zindello> Wind looks pretty messsed up above 20k
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[00:41] <VK5ZEA> it's still very weak here in Port Lincoln... but I'm still getting some good decodes.
[00:41] <Darkside> cool
[00:41] <zindello> *if* I had a beam setup at home this would be about the point in time that I *might* have *half* a hope of decoding
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[00:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:43] <zindello> Lunar_Lande are you in VK?
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> no, Germany
[00:43] <zindello> Ah
[00:43] <zindello> What time is it over there?
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> but I know Horus since Horus 11 or 9 I think
[00:43] <zindello> Mmm
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> quarter to 2 in the morning
[00:44] <zindello> I met Mark at Mt Gambier national foxhunting championships last year, and we bumped into each other at Linux Conf this year.
[00:44] <zindello> Ouch
[00:44] <zindello> You're keen
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:44] <schofieldau> quarter past 11 in english class
[00:44] <zindello> Lol
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander> zindello: I remember the first Horus flight I attended here
[00:44] <zindello> On IRC at school? Tsk Tsk
[00:45] <Lunar_Lander> we discussed cows and toothpaste commercials during descent
[00:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:45] <zindello> Ah ok, you were in VK?
[00:45] <Lunar_Lander> no, here on IRC
[00:45] <zindello> Or you mean in the room?
[00:45] <zindello> Ah
[00:45] <zindello> Well
[00:45] <zindello> Better than nothing
[00:45] <Darkside> vk5gr: i see you're taking the same road as us
[00:46] <schofieldau> you guys are primary sources for my work :P
[00:46] <Darkside> lol
[00:46] <zindello> Not wanting to state the obvious, but to me wouldn't it make sense for somebody to take the south road and have one come down from above and one up from underneath?
[00:46] <zindello> schofieldau: How do you mean?
[00:48] <zindello> Ah
[00:48] <zindello> I see what you're doing
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[00:50] <vk5gr> yes - there isnt anyway over the dunes from hwy 1
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[00:51] <vk5gr> at least none that are viable to travbl over in a car/4wd - camel maybe
[00:51] <zindello> Lol
[00:51] <zindello> Sadly, I know many foxhunters that would try!
[00:51] <schofieldau_> damn school IRC
[00:51] <vk5gr> i once was one of them :-)
[00:51] Nick change: schofieldau_ -> schofieldau
[00:52] <zindello> LOL!
[00:52] <vk5gr> vk5zwi back then - used to hunt with agi,. ex or tzx
[00:52] <zindello> I know a guy, David, VK3XAJ (The white hoon-mobile subaru at Mt G last year) well
[00:52] <zindello> He loves his austins
[00:52] <Darkside> zindello: the one that we tried to save?
[00:52] <zindello> No
[00:53] <zindello> That was the black one
[00:53] <zindello> This one was white.
[00:53] <zindello> He had an old Austin Kimerbley, he used to take that thing places that hardcore 4WD guys wouldn't go!
[00:53] <zindello> Wed lost track of the amount of times he got bogged.
[00:53] <zindello> We*
[00:54] <Lunar_Lander> did he have MAXTRAX?
[00:54] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[00:54] <zindello> Nah
[00:54] <zindello> I dare say these were in the days before MAXTRAX
[00:55] <zindello> I remember once, he got it bogged so well, that it took us 5 snatch attempts to get an 1100kg car out!
[00:55] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[00:55] <zindello> He'd managed to beach the floorpan, from K frame to boot!
[00:55] <NigeyS> Darkside, has this balloon been entered into some kind of doodle drawing contest or somethng?!
[00:55] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[00:55] <Lunar_Lander> XD NigeyS
[00:55] <Darkside> lol
[00:55] <NigeyS> hey kev
[00:56] <Darkside> expecting burst anytime soon
[00:56] <NigeyS> nevermind horus, call it bloody picaso! :D
[00:56] <Lunar_Lander> zindello: I just love the one flight report where a Horus ditched
[00:56] <Darkside> horus 8
[00:56] <Lunar_Lander> where the MAXTRAX and Adrian's Glasses were lost to sea
[00:56] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[00:56] <zindello> Heh
[00:56] <zindello> Horus 21 did that too
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[00:56] <zindello> although unrecoverable
[00:57] <Darkside> 20*
[00:57] <zindello> 20 sorry
[00:57] <zindello> I stand corrected
[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> and 16 splashed too
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[00:57] <zindello> That was the, errr, long? flight wasn't it?
[00:57] <Darkside> yup
[00:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:58] <Lunar_Lander> wasn't found?
[00:58] <zindello> Which one?
[00:59] <Lunar_Lander> the trans-south-australia-flight
[01:00] <pschulz> Lunar_Lander: That was a fun one :-)
[01:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[01:00] <pschulz> Lunar_Lander: + trans-nsw
[01:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[01:00] <pschulz> and sonw of Victoria :-)
[01:00] <pschulz> some
[01:01] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[01:01] <Lunar_Lander> and that Canberra area
[01:01] <Lunar_Lander> how is that called?
[01:01] <zindello> 32743!
[01:01] <zindello> Gotta be close now.
[01:01] <schofieldau> predicted burst point just hit
[01:02] <Lunar_Lander> Australian Capital Territory
[01:02] <pschulz> Stopping to wait for the burst?
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[01:04] <zindello> Would it be fair to assume it's going to do a Mr Squiggle back down to 20km?
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside: what balloon is used?
[01:04] <pschulz> Getting telemetry from VK5DJ in Millicent :-)
[01:04] <NigeyS> burst damn you!
[01:04] <schofieldau> jeeeeeze it's taking a while
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander> is that a Hwoyee 2000?
[01:04] <NigeyS> its to busy drawing pictures on the map to burst ;)
[01:05] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[01:05] <NigeyS> its a 1000gm kev
[01:05] <NigeyS> dunno if its totex or hwoyeeeeeeeeeeyahooza
[01:05] <Darkside> hwoyee
[01:05] <NigeyS> oh god, itll float, u watch :P
[01:05] <Darkside> NigeyS: ohshish
[01:05] <zindello> Ascent rate just went up.
[01:06] <NigeyS> lols, happy swimming mark :)
[01:06] <zindello> 34km
[01:07] <schofieldau> walking to next lesson with my laptop open like a tard
[01:07] <zindello> I think Terry was actually the strong swimmer.
[01:07] <NigeyS> lol schofieldau
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> I like how there is a place called "Field" next to the cars
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> Don't all australians have to swim 26km every year or they lose their citezenship?
[01:08] <NigeyS> feck that
[01:08] <NigeyS> unless having a bath counts!
[01:08] <zindello> NigeyS: Ditto!
[01:08] <Darkside> hanging around waiting for birst...
[01:08] <Darkside> grg
[01:08] <NigeyS> its gonna flooooooooat
[01:08] <VK5ZEA> I'm still decoding... the signal has improved somewhat.
[01:10] <schofieldau> a repeat of the last floater?
[01:10] <zindello> I'm waiting for the damn thing to burst before I go heat up my lunch
[01:10] <zindello> Work acheived today = absolutely zero
[01:11] <Lunar_Lander> now the page failed
[01:12] <schofieldau> it's stopped
[01:12] <schofieldau> at 34590
[01:12] <schofieldau> :/
[01:12] <Lunar_Lander> spacenear.us "Server not found"
[01:12] <vk5gr> climb baby climb 35.3km
[01:12] <zindello> It did this just before
[01:12] <Lunar_Lander> does spacenear.us work for you?
[01:12] <zindello> took about 30 seconds to come back
[01:12] <schofieldau> mine's still refreshing
[01:12] <schofieldau> and finding new positions
[01:13] <NigeyS> 3.3m/s
[01:13] <zindello> There we go
[01:13] <schofieldau> back up
[01:13] <zindello> Mark did you just kick the server in the guts?
[01:14] <schofieldau> or not it's doing it again
[01:14] <vk5gr> 35.6km
[01:14] <schofieldau> 34707
[01:15] <Darkside> fff
[01:15] <Darkside> 35.8...
[01:15] <NigeyS> lol
[01:15] <zindello> interesting
[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> Server not found
[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> what is up
[01:15] <NigeyS> altitude record or float, take ya pick :p
[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> natrium42: what is up with spacenear?
[01:15] <vk5gr> 35.919km
[01:15] <zindello> What's the altitude record?
[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> 41.6 km
[01:15] <zindello> spacenear just updated
[01:15] <NigeyS> think its 41.7
[01:16] <Darkside> we've got 38.9km here
[01:16] <zindello> It thinks 34.755
[01:16] <schofieldau> :D
[01:16] <vk5gr> 36.011km
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> finally back
[01:16] <zindello> Still up and down here
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD Received 7162 new positions.
[01:17] <zindello> Where are you seeing those stats?
[01:17] <zindello> Looks like it's taking a while to process the info and catch up/
[01:17] <Lunar_Lander> lower left corner
[01:17] <zindello> Ah
[01:18] <schofieldau> predicted landing is moving closer to the ocean D:
[01:18] <Lunar_Lander> below the "powered by google"
[01:18] <Darkside> its FLOATING
[01:18] <Darkside> FFFFFFFFFFFF
[01:18] <NigeyS> haha told ya
[01:18] <zindello> D'oh!
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[01:18] <schofieldau> oh shit
[01:19] <NigeyS> whats payload weight Mark ?
[01:19] <Darkside> goddamnit
[01:19] <Lunar_Lander> here it is still ascending
[01:19] <Darkside> like 100g
[01:19] <Darkside> lol
[01:19] <NigeyS> oh shit
[01:19] Action: NigeyS gets coffee
[01:19] <Lunar_Lander> 36282 m here
[01:19] <Darkside> we put in a fair bit of gas
[01:19] <schofieldau> got a go pro on this one?
[01:19] <Darkside> nope
[01:19] <Lunar_Lander> what do you have?
[01:19] <Darkside> just telemetry
[01:19] <pschulz> Darkside: ready for a swim?
[01:19] <Darkside> 36287
[01:19] <schofieldau> waterproofed payload?
[01:19] <schofieldau> annual bath*
[01:19] <zindello> What's the predicted descent rate?
[01:19] <NigeyS> Darkside, its been a very up n down ascent, prolly helped cause a float :/
[01:21] <Hibby> dun dun duuuuuuuuuh
[01:21] <vk5gr> '36341
[01:21] <NigeyS> its off to kangaroo island lol
[01:21] <schofieldau> and the plot thickens
[01:22] <Hibby> hibby replies to the UKHAS mailing list and it's productive!
[01:22] <NigeyS> :o feeling ill? :p
[01:22] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Hibberd "Re: [UKHAS] Re: last position payload"
[01:22] <zindello> Is there a Ferry to Kangaroo Island?
[01:22] <schofieldau> yep
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[01:22] <schofieldau> sealink
[01:22] <pschulz> zindello: Yes..
[01:22] <zindello> Car Ferry I mean
[01:22] <Hibby> See! Told y'all!
[01:22] <schofieldau> yep car ferry
[01:23] <schofieldau> do you think it will actually float long enough to make it that far
[01:23] <pschulz> zindello: Yes.. departs from Cape Jervis. They would need to drive around Lake Alexandrina.
[01:23] <zindello> Again ...
[01:23] <nigelvh> Looks like it's turning to the north a bit.
[01:23] <NigeyS> schofieldau, possibly
[01:24] <NigeyS> depends how much more pressure it can take
[01:24] <schofieldau> next ferry isn't until 6pm just btw
[01:25] <zindello> The other thing is it's still going to have to come down through the wind, blowing it farther west I can only presume, before it gets low enough to be blown east/south east again
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[01:26] <zindello> Darkside: What now?
[01:26] <schofieldau> remote cutdown next launch? :P
[01:26] <NigeyS> hehe
[01:27] <NigeyS> Darkside, you might not float for long, looks like you ma have hit that oscillation layer
[01:27] <NigeyS> may*
[01:28] <schofieldau> fucking burst!
[01:28] <NigeyS> lols
[01:28] <VK5ZEA> I reckon a luxeon high intensity LED beacon would be good for visual tracking.
[01:28] <zindello> Screwit, I'm heating up my lunch.
[01:28] <zindello> bbs
[01:28] <NigeyS> haha oki
[01:28] <Darkside> fff
[01:29] <Darkside> yeah
[01:29] <Darkside> burst dammit
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> VK5ZEA: you don't need to heatsink them if you do it right
[01:29] <NigeyS> itll burst soon
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> just pulse for 5ms/1s
[01:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea it actually climbs sometimes
[01:29] <NigeyS> yup, its hit that oscillation point we used to see alot of
[01:29] <schofieldau> it's like 4 or 5 km off landing in the sea
[01:29] <NigeyS> -x.xxms then +1.5+ m/s
[01:30] <Darkside> we're going to move
[01:30] <Randomskk> hmmm
[01:30] <Darkside> get closer to teh cost
[01:30] <Randomskk> £14 for a TCXO from farnell
[01:30] <Randomskk> tiny SMD package
[01:30] <NigeyS> hey Randomskk !
[01:30] <Randomskk> 0.5ppm over -40C to +85C
[01:30] <Darkside> hehe 36667
[01:30] <NigeyS> 14quid? whats it made of, gold?!
[01:30] <Randomskk> hi NigeyS, how's it going?
[01:30] <Randomskk> NigeyS: well at 434MHz it would drift 217Hz moving from 85C to -40C
[01:30] <NigeyS> all good, finally got my hosted ver of the hourly predictor running!
[01:30] <Randomskk> nice :D
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: I was annoyed to find that the rubidium standards doubled in price on ebay
[01:31] <NigeyS> 217 :o blimey
[01:31] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: I know, they'd be so fun
[01:31] <zindello> Back
[01:31] <Lunar_Lander> WOW radio plays Drops of Jupiter!!!
[01:31] <Randomskk> NigeyS: yea, it'd basically not drift. from room temp to -40C is like, less than 100Hz or something
[01:31] <Randomskk> maximum over the entire flight
[01:31] <Randomskk> insane
[01:31] <NigeyS> thats insane, worth the 14quid!! lol
[01:31] <schofieldau> chase car on the move
[01:31] <schofieldau> cars*
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[01:32] <pschulz> go-go-gadget waterwings
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[01:32] <schofieldau> hope you bought your bathers
[01:32] <zindello> Is the landing predictor accurate?
[01:32] <zindello> I mean
[01:32] <NigeyS> fairly accurate yup
[01:32] <SpeedEvil> zindello: sort-of
[01:32] <Randomskk> NigeyS: compared to like 13kHz for a 'normal' crystal
[01:32] <zindello> I'd find it hard to believe that it's going to turn on a hairpin at this point in time
[01:32] <SpeedEvil> zindello: It gets more accurate as it frops
[01:33] <Randomskk> zindello: you'd be surprised :P
[01:33] <Veranderon> hey guys. Im getting good results on 434.652.9. Anyone else up this high today?
[01:33] <vk5gr> 36700 and floating
[01:33] <Randomskk> the winds at altitude suddenly change as you move through altitude layers
[01:33] <NigeyS> Randomskk, yeah, i was thinking of coating the xtal on picochu-4 in hot glue to help with the drift a little!
[01:33] <zindello> Oh I know that
[01:33] <Lunar_Lander> btw Darkside why are the two temperatures inverted?
[01:33] <Darkside> Veranderon: we're on 434.652 here
[01:33] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: because of a software bug
[01:33] <Darkside> my bad
[01:33] <Randomskk> NigeyS: indeed
[01:34] <Veranderon> ack.. thanks.. usually lower here (Melb)
[01:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[01:34] <Randomskk> I've been considering using the temperature sensor to retune the radio
[01:34] <zindello> But if we saw a westbound pattern between 30 and 35 km, so wouldn't it make sense that there should be a bit more westerly on the way down
[01:34] <Randomskk> but frankly that TXCO would make it pointless
[01:34] <Randomskk> it'd just Be Right
[01:34] <zindello> and then that squiggly bit between 30 and 20k
[01:34] <NigeyS> Randomskk, have you got a link for it? i got to see this!
[01:34] <Darkside> Veranderon: whats your callsign?
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[01:34] <Randomskk> http://uk.farnell.com/iqd-frequency-products/lf-tvxo009912/crystal-oscillator-smd-10mhz/dp/1100747 is one
[01:35] <Veranderon> sry darkside. vk3vcl
[01:35] <Randomskk> there are also some at £40
[01:35] <NigeyS> wow thats tiny!
[01:35] <Randomskk> meh it's small ish
[01:35] <NigeyS> 3.3v too.. perfect
[01:35] <Randomskk> still like 7mm
[01:35] <cef> Darkside: so what was the expected burst height?
[01:35] <Randomskk> well they do them in a range of operating voltages
[01:35] <Darkside> cef: 33km...
[01:35] <NigeyS> ah
[01:35] <Randomskk> if you just search 'txco' on farnell
[01:35] <Randomskk> you get loads
[01:35] <Randomskk> uh
[01:35] <Randomskk> tcxo
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[01:36] <Randomskk> but yea
[01:36] <Randomskk> pretty cool!
[01:36] <Randomskk> I might try one sometime
[01:36] <Randomskk> they would be rock solid
[01:36] <Lunar_Lander> what is TXCO?
[01:36] <cef> Darkside: doh! got a while to go before it gets to the top height you've done.. (40k isn't it?)
[01:36] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: TCXO
[01:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[01:36] <NigeyS> im guessing theres a lot more to add to it to make the full radio ?
[01:36] <Randomskk> temperature compensated crystal oscillator
[01:36] <Randomskk> NigeyS: well yea, it's just a crystal
[01:36] <Randomskk> you need a radio
[01:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[01:37] <Randomskk> but like
[01:37] <Randomskk> what a radio that would be
[01:37] <Randomskk> it'd stay dead set on that frequency
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[01:37] <NigeyS> would be the holy grail, as far as eliminating drift
[01:37] <Randomskk> well
[01:37] <cef> Darkside: I think you guys definitely need to work on remote cut-down tho. ;)
[01:38] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil might have something to say about that and rubidium standards :P
[01:38] <zindello> cef: He's already working on it
[01:38] <NigeyS> haha oh dear
[01:38] Action: NigeyS hides
[01:38] <vk5gr> matt's drifting the car now :-)
[01:38] <Randomskk> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FE-5680A-Rubidium-Atomic-Frequency-Standard-10MHz-OUT-/290680292234
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> They do need a stupid amount of power alas.
[01:38] <Randomskk> yea, but they are 5E-12
[01:38] <zindello> vk3gr: Going to go have some fun on the dunes?
[01:38] <Hibby> amma go to bed
[01:39] <Hibby> nn y'all
[01:39] <Randomskk> well 5E-11 over temperature
[01:39] <zindello> vk5gr*
[01:39] <Darkside> zindello: what an insult
[01:39] <zindello> Darkside: Hey! You did it to me?
[01:39] <NigeyS> Stability: To 5x10-12/ to 2x10-10/year
[01:39] <NigeyS> :o
[01:39] <Randomskk> that's like, 0.02Hz shift
[01:39] <Randomskk> over the operating temperature range
[01:39] <Randomskk> (at 434MHz output)
[01:39] <NigeyS> thats ridiculous! lol
[01:39] <nigelvh> I'm perfectly happy with my GPSDO
[01:40] <nigelvh> Temperature, time, etc. Doesn't matter.
[01:40] <zindello> 36910!
[01:40] <Randomskk> nigelvh: losing gps lock, on the other hand, does :P
[01:40] <zindello> Cmon, 37km!
[01:40] <Randomskk> do you actually discipline the radio TX clock to the GPS?
[01:40] <nigelvh> The GPSDO will maintain accuracy during a holdover condition for quite a while
[01:41] <Randomskk> yea but are you using it to set the radio output freq?
[01:41] <nigelvh> I use it as the input to my counter, then use that to set the radio freq.
[01:41] <nigelvh> Not on the balloons of course.
[01:41] <NigeyS> interesting
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[01:41] <pschulz> Is it possible to add '
[01:42] <Randomskk> so what does discipline the balloons? otherwise you're going to drift just as much with temperature
[01:42] <pschulz> Is it possible to add 'float' into the predictions?
[01:42] <Randomskk> pschulz: it's on the feature list
[01:42] <Randomskk> but you can bodge it for now
[01:42] <nigelvh> Nothing, but the transmitters I use are 500mw, so they keep themselves warm.
[01:42] <Randomskk> run a prediction as normal with burst alt at your float alt
[01:42] <Randomskk> nigelvh: not really the same thing then :P
[01:42] <nigelvh> No, but you aren't really flying a rubidium standard either are you?
[01:42] <Randomskk> pschulz: then, run a new prediction from the predicted burst point, with launch altitude = float altitude, and set ascent rate to like 0.000001
[01:43] <Randomskk> nigelvh: no, but I might well be flying one of those TCXOs
[01:43] <NigeyS> mm an ntx2 with 500mw .. what a dream lol
[01:43] <nigelvh> Yes, that is more likely.
[01:43] <Veranderon> FYI...RX on vehicle whip mounted on gutter. better thea the X7k. :)
[01:43] <Randomskk> flying either a GPSDO or a rubidium standard would be totally amazing though ;D
[01:43] <nigelvh> A rather expensive way to keep the transmitter from drifting, both in money and in power.
[01:44] <Randomskk> hehe totally
[01:44] <zindello> When we did Horus 21, that was a 100mw VHF transmitter
[01:44] <Darkside> goddamn
[01:44] <BrainDamage> gpddo isn't too expensive, esp if done manually
[01:44] <Darkside> driving down a road
[01:44] <Darkside> freshly graded
[01:44] <Darkside> MASSIVE ROCKS all over the road
[01:44] <zindello> And it seemed to remain fairly stable, although that one only got to 21km
[01:44] <Lunar_Lander> what does a rubidium standard do?
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: It's a very, very stable clock.
[01:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[01:44] <zindello> Darkside: Big marbles :P Drifing!!
[01:44] <Veranderon> standardises rubidium ;)
[01:44] <nigelvh> I've just got the Trimble Thunderbolt. Got it on ebay with power supply and antenna for about $150.
[01:45] <pschulz> Darkside: Who's going to Cape Jarvis?
[01:45] <cef> going up again!
[01:45] <Darkside> pschulz: lol
[01:45] <Darkside> not us
[01:45] <Veranderon> there is noting worse than non-standard isotopes I say
[01:45] <zindello> Woo
[01:45] <zindello> 37km!
[01:45] <cef> zindello: :D
[01:46] <Darkside> we're not getting this one back
[01:46] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: :/
[01:46] <Darkside> predicted landing site is in teh coorong
[01:46] <schofieldau> hope for the sand bar
[01:46] <zindello> Shoot for Kangaroo Island?
[01:46] <Darkside> nah
[01:46] <NigeyS> Randomskk, i actually did a freezer test of ATS-1 last week, the amount of drift per 1 degree drop in temperature was disappointing to say the least
[01:46] <zindello> How long you going to stay where you are before you call it quits?
[01:46] <cef> Darkside: unless the wind changes
[01:46] <Darkside> if it brusts it'll head south when it burst
[01:47] <Randomskk> NigeyS: in that it didn't drift much, or it drifted a lot?
[01:47] <NigeyS> a hell of alot
[01:47] <Randomskk> yea I can imagine
[01:47] <NigeyS> stabilised a little at -11
[01:47] <Randomskk> hmm
[01:47] <NigeyS> but dial freq went from 651.2 to 652.8 by the time it hit -18
[01:47] <Randomskk> for now my plan remains to just retune the radio based on a lookup table and a temp sensor
[01:47] <Randomskk> should work
[01:48] <nigelvh> That seems a simpler plan that running a reference oscillator.
[01:48] <Randomskk> indeed
[01:48] <NigeyS> oo, will keep a lookup for ure results
[01:48] <Randomskk> less cool maybe
[01:48] <NigeyS> lol
[01:48] <nigelvh> Indeed less cool
[01:48] <Randomskk> NigeyS: did you see how well wombat fared on sunday? :P
[01:48] <Randomskk> might be trying again on thursday
[01:48] <nigelvh> Coolest would be a cesium fountain clock
[01:48] <NigeyS> no, i was painting all day, i only managed to catch ozzie :(
[01:48] <Randomskk> basically it didn't work >_>
[01:49] <Randomskk> nigelvh: oh totally
[01:49] <Randomskk> that'd be crazy.
[01:49] <nigelvh> You know you want to
[01:49] <Randomskk> it'd be so much more accurate than anyone receiving it
[01:49] <NigeyS> oh no, what did you break? :p
[01:49] <nigelvh> POP!
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[01:49] <NigeyS> there ya go Darkside told ya itd burst at 37k :-)
[01:49] <Darkside> burst
[01:49] <Randomskk> NigeyS: dunno, the radio basically just didn't work once it was airborne. it was being very tempermental with frequency though
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> Predictor doesn't need to be that far out.
[01:49] <zindello> Oh wow!
[01:49] <schofieldau> burst!
[01:49] <zindello> 52.1m/s?
[01:49] <Lunar_Lander> YAY
[01:49] <zindello> Holy crap!
[01:49] <BrainDamage> you know, having it swinging in the air randomly kinda nullifies the point of the atomic funtain
[01:49] <NigeyS> weird, did it work on the ground before and after ?
[01:49] <schofieldau> parachute obviously hasn't deployed yet
[01:50] <Randomskk> NigeyS: yea
[01:50] <zindello> -58...
[01:50] <Randomskk> picked it up as we drove towards landing spot
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> The air up there is _VERY_ thin
[01:50] <NigeyS> hrm, thats odd
[01:50] <nigelvh> Or it's heavy enough that it stabilizes.
[01:50] <zindello> I take it the air needs to get a bit thicker
[01:50] <schofieldau> Darkside: you're going to need a very long stick
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> As in under a percent of ground.
[01:50] <Randomskk> and worked before launch or we probably wouldn't have put it up
[01:50] <NigeyS> slight damage to something maybe ?
[01:51] <nigelvh> Hope for a small parachute
[01:51] <Darkside> hrmm
[01:51] <Darkside> we may get it back or not
[01:51] <nigelvh> Though 37.113 is a nice max.
[01:51] <NigeyS> 50/50 i think Mark
[01:51] <Darkside> getting new wind data
[01:51] <Darkside> see if predictions getting better
[01:51] <Randomskk> NigeyS: I think it's just the radio being very dodgy. it's an experimental thing
[01:51] <Randomskk> too experimental :P
[01:51] <zindello> It's coming down pretty fast
[01:51] <NigeyS> hah well, you needed to test
[01:51] <Randomskk> indeed :P
[01:51] <zindello> 144km/h
[01:51] <SpeedEvil> Is it high tide?
[01:52] <Randomskk> I have a few ideas, so if parts arrive in time and it works then probably relaunch thurs
[01:52] <SpeedEvil> Almost looks like it's heading for the reef.
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[01:52] <NigeyS> awsome, hope its more successful, wombat is a kickass payload
[01:52] <Veranderon> Anyone called air sea resuue :)
[01:52] <Darkside> pff
[01:52] <VK5ZEA-2> Arrived home for lunch to see Horus 22 coming down
[01:52] <Darkside> heh
[01:52] <Darkside> heading up to magrath flats
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[01:53] <Veranderon> Thunderbirds maybe?
[01:53] <NigeyS> Randomskk, jon was telling me / showing me the pics / details of that flow meter, thats a top bit of kit!!
[01:53] <zindello> Holy crap, 26k already
[01:53] <zindello> Erm, shouldn't the chute have deployed by now?
[01:54] <nigelvh> Too little air
[01:54] <VK5ZEA-2> I've left my tracking gear un-attended at work...
[01:54] <nigelvh> The thing's gonna drop like a stone for a while
[01:54] <zindello> At that speed, if the chute did deploy, what are the chances it would rip it off?
[01:54] <SpeedEvil> Notice it's already halved in speed
[01:54] <zindello> Yeah
[01:54] <cef> bit of updraft for a sec
[01:54] <Randomskk> NigeyS: oh man it's so good :3
[01:54] <Veranderon> nyay.. got a last one in before ditching.
[01:54] <NigeyS> Randomskk, i drolled, profously!
[01:54] <Randomskk> NigeyS: type in the helium volume from the burst calc, press go, watch it fill the balloon, tie off, release
[01:54] <Randomskk> so good
[01:54] <NigeyS> then cried when he mentioned the price, hah!
[01:54] <Randomskk> haha totally
[01:54] <Randomskk> insane
[01:55] <NigeyS> and .03% accuracy.. mental !!!
[01:55] <Veranderon> Melbourne now off the air. Just the faintest of signals in the noise
[01:55] <Veranderon> cheers Houus folk... back to work..
[01:55] <Veranderon> *horus.
[01:55] <Darkside> can anyone redownload the wind data on the spacenearus site?
[01:55] <Darkside> Randomskk:
[01:56] <Darkside> can you rerun the get data for adelaide on spacenearus
[01:56] <Randomskk> afraid not :/
[01:56] <Darkside> dammit
[01:56] <Darkside> fsphil: Upu
[01:56] <Randomskk> well I can log in to spacenearus but don't know how to do the data fetch
[01:56] <zindello> Who runs the spacenear.us site?
[01:56] <Darkside> UpuWork:
[01:56] <Darkside> uhh
[01:56] <Darkside> Randomskk: theres scripts
[01:56] <Darkside> ~/landing_predictions/
[01:56] <NigeyS> i have the hourly predictor on my server, dunno if that can do it ?
[01:56] <Darkside> look for one called get_adelaide or something
[01:56] <SpeedEvil> zindello: Consider that the air up there is perhaps 1/30th (now) STP. sqrt(30) means that the speed at the ground will be around 20m/s / 5
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[01:57] <SpeedEvil> =4
[01:57] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, how do you do maths at 2am dude?! :P
[01:58] <Randomskk> space@spacenear.us [~/landing_prediction]# ./get_adelaide.sh
[01:58] <Randomskk> running
[01:58] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: I slept from 8-11
[01:58] <zindello> It's gonna be a close one ....
[01:58] <NigeyS> ahh thats cheating..lol
[01:58] <Darkside> spacenar us predictions are wrong
[01:58] <Darkside> they're getting updated now
[01:58] <Darkside> with new wind data
[01:58] <zindello> Wind data old?
[01:58] <Darkside> yes
[01:59] <zindello> Better or worse?
[02:00] <Darkside> better prediction
[02:00] <Darkside> inland a few km
[02:00] <schofieldau> yay
[02:00] <Randomskk> it's not done getting new data yet...
[02:00] <zindello> I think Mark has the latest data on his laptop
[02:00] <cef> Darkside: somewhere like Colebatch?
[02:01] <Darkside> nfi
[02:01] <Darkside> we'r enot using google maps
[02:01] <Darkside> we hae local mapping stuff
[02:01] <SpeedEvil> nearmap
[02:01] <Darkside> no
[02:02] <cef> about 1/3rd of the way on the road from Coorong to Tintinara
[02:02] <VK5ZEA-2> I can't how good the old Icom R-10 scanner is working out.
[02:03] <Darkside> VK5ZEA-2: we have a R10 here
[02:03] <schofieldau> is it going to update the spacenear.us website's prediction?
[02:04] <Randomskk> yes. still getting new data.
[02:05] <Darkside> prediction is 5km inland
[02:05] <Darkside> from where we are
[02:05] <Darkside> just sharing wind data
[02:05] <Darkside> other car is having trouble downloading, so we're sharing it on a usb drive
[02:05] <zindello> Cool
[02:05] <zindello> Gonna stay put for a bit I presume?
[02:05] <schofieldau> sneakernet
[02:05] <zindello> Until it's closer?
[02:05] <Darkside> yeah for a little bit
[02:06] <zindello> Heh you know what you should do
[02:06] <zindello> SPeak to the Mt G guys next year and incorporate a baloon hunt with encrypted telemetry
[02:06] <zindello> Or perhaps I should say encoded ..
[02:06] <Randomskk> hah
[02:07] <Randomskk> you could do encrypted under license exemptions :P
[02:07] <zindello> Yeah
[02:07] <zindello> LIPD
[02:07] <Randomskk> but I think encoded in such a way as to render it undecipherable to others might violate the spirit if not the letter of your amateur license ;P
[02:07] <zindello> True ..
[02:07] <nigelvh> Yeah....
[02:07] <zindello> So just launch it as a LIPD :P
[02:07] <Randomskk> hehe yup
[02:08] <zindello> Randomskk are you in SA?
[02:08] <Randomskk> nope, UK
[02:08] <zindello> Fair enough
[02:08] <Randomskk> well I assume by SA you mean south africa
[02:08] <zindello> South Australia
[02:08] <Randomskk> that was my second guess >_>
[02:08] <Randomskk> either way, UK :P
[02:08] <zindello> Answer proves valid for both
[02:09] <zindello> 12.5k
[02:09] <zindello> Not long now
[02:10] <Darkside> long enough to be annoying
[02:10] <zindello> Heh
[02:10] <Gnea> Breaking out the scuba gear? :)
[02:10] <NigeyS> Randomskk, http://nigey.co.uk/predict/# .. loop the loop ?
[02:10] <Randomskk> hah nice
[02:11] <Randomskk> you have a ton of pretty viable flights there, even if they are all a horrifically long drive :P
[02:11] <NigeyS> if i launched 1 every day this week at 12pm id have covered most of southern u i think hah!
[02:11] <NigeyS> aiming for sunday 9-10am
[02:11] <zindello> Any idea when spacenear will be updated?
[02:12] <Randomskk> Darkside: script now finished
[02:12] <Randomskk> zindello: should be now.
[02:12] <Randomskk> NigeyS: landing near Dorchester?
[02:12] <NigeyS> yup, hopefully itll float, and we wont have to drive that far
[02:12] <shenki> Darkside: nice day for a swim
[02:13] <nigelvh> Seems to still be out in the ocean
[02:13] <Darkside> spacenear us is still showing wrong predictions
[02:13] <Randomskk> Darkside: should update soon then I guess. it's got the new data.
[02:13] <NigeyS> if we can find a nice high spot outside bristol, we can track from there, until the french can track
[02:13] <Randomskk> ah I see, nice
[02:13] <Darkside> we think its still going to go in the water
[02:13] <NigeyS> thats the plan anyway, it'll probably piss down with rain and burst the balloon like last time :(
[02:14] <Randomskk> :(
[02:14] <zindello> Darkside: Not good
[02:14] <zindello> Darkside: Close enough to recover?
[02:14] <shenki> sounds like fun
[02:14] <shenki> wish i was there
[02:14] <NigeyS> but still, beats staying in bed on a sunday morning :D
[02:14] <shenki> :D
[02:14] <zindello> under 10km
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[02:15] <zindello> Darkside: Can you get a car out onto the dunes?
[02:18] <Darkside> maybe
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[02:19] <zindello> 82kph
[02:20] <zindello> Heading into the Coorong National Park?
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[02:20] <zindello> Or staying on the mainland for now?
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[02:22] <zindello> Under 7km
[02:22] Nick change: schofieldau_ -> schofieldau
[02:22] <cef> I can see wheel tracks on the beach using Google. Not sure about any legalities tho. But you need to go down near Keith Cantara Rd to get to the access track. Lotta distance south.
[02:23] <zindello> Mig be where they're headed
[02:24] <Darkside> no
[02:24] <Darkside> we're turning around
[02:24] <zindello> Oh?
[02:24] <Darkside> if it gets out there we'll try and get coordinates and get it later
[02:24] <zindello> Fuel needed?
[02:24] <cef> sounds fair enuff
[02:24] <Darkside> no
[02:25] <Darkside> the predictions are useless now
[02:25] <zindello> Giving up for now?
[02:25] <zindello> Ah
[02:25] <zindello> Ok
[02:25] <Darkside> its going to end up pas teh cooromg we think
[02:25] <schofieldau> how long approx until it touches down?
[02:25] <SpeedEvil> 20 mins
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[02:26] <cef> long as you get telemetry till it lands, it's all good.
[02:26] <zindello> Unless it goes splash
[02:26] <cef> well, least you know where it goes splash, and won't waste time looking for it
[02:26] <SpeedEvil> It can blow on shore later
[02:27] <cef> worse is if it stops transmitting at say 3k up, and you have no idea where it ends up
[02:28] <schofieldau> you may as well stick with it if there's only 20 mins till land and the predictions are innacurate
[02:28] <zindello> Under 5km
[02:29] <cef> Darkside: moved closer to get a look?
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[02:30] <zindello> at -5.3m/s there's approx 784 secs to touchdown
[02:30] <adhoc> Darkside: ready the long boats =P
[02:30] <zindello> 13 minutes
[02:31] <Darkside> heading out to sea...
[02:31] <Darkside> dammit
[02:31] <VK5ZEA-2> iSad
[02:31] <schofieldau> possible it will hit a different wind layer or something
[02:31] <Darkside> glad we didn't fly a pony
[02:31] <Darkside> schofieldau: yeah, and go even further out to sea
[02:31] <zindello> It *might* land on the coorong National Park
[02:31] <schofieldau> ah
[02:31] <zindello> When's the next one happening?
[02:31] <schofieldau> bugger :(
[02:32] <VK5ZEA-2> Contact the National Park/DEH people and see if they can send a boat to the general area...
[02:32] <schofieldau> I'm off for now
[02:32] <schofieldau> see you guys later
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[02:34] <adhoc> Darkside: you need to upgrade to army ducks for aquatic missions =)
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[02:35] <zindello> Darkside: How many micronuts are left now?
[02:35] <cef> heh.. wonder how high a quadcopter could get.. remote 'go and collect' it before it hits the water. ;)
[02:36] <SpeedEvil> I have plans for a climb optimised UAV to hit 4km in 3 min
[02:36] <adhoc> cef: out one in the payload for last minute steering away from water to ground ;)
[02:37] <cef> adhoc: heh.. just make the payload a quadcopter!
[02:37] <adhoc> cef: or something a bit more directional
[02:37] <zindello> 500 seconds to touchdown
[02:37] <pschulz> inflatable glider
[02:38] <SpeedEvil> Trained pigeon inside a pressure-suit.
[02:38] <cef> adhoc: no chute.. use the backspin to recharge the battery. ;)
[02:39] <adhoc> cef: like regenerative braking?
[02:40] <cef> adhoc: yup. why not? gonna get a lot of air thru those blades as you fall
[02:40] <adhoc> s/fall/tumble/
[02:40] <cef> true true
[02:40] <pschulz> Something really 'waterphobic'
[02:40] <Darkside> ok now its crossed the coast
[02:41] <NigeyS> meh
[02:41] <cef> water unless there is a sudden wind change
[02:41] <cef> (which is unlikely)
[02:42] <pschulz> VK5QI needs to set their lat/log properly.
[02:42] <Darkside> my receive location you mean?
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[02:42] <Darkside> yeah lol
[02:42] <Lunar_Lander> ohh it'll ditch in Encounter Bay!
[02:42] <SpeedEvil> Last dozen strings...
[02:43] <SpeedEvil> See it?
[02:43] <Darkside> no
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[02:44] <nigelvh> 383!
[02:44] <zindello> Doh
[02:44] <SpeedEvil> 60m/string or so
[02:44] <cef> looks like about 1.5-2km off the coast
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[02:44] <zindello> Darkside: You know, out of the 3 I've watched/been involved in
[02:44] <SpeedEvil> Will we get a floater...
[02:45] <nigelvh> >200!
[02:45] <zindello> Darkside: That's 2 that have ended up in the drink.
[02:45] <nigelvh> <*
[02:45] Action: SpeedEvil crosses fingers.
[02:45] <VK5ZEA-2> It'll probably wash up on the coast somewhere
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[02:45] <Lunar_Lander> end of flight!
[02:45] <zindello> Out there, what are the changes of it being recovered?
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[02:45] <SpeedEvil> One more sting airborne
[02:45] <zindello> 56m
[02:45] <NigeyS> 39m
[02:45] <zindello> 22m
[02:45] <SpeedEvil> Or two. :)
[02:45] <NigeyS> lol
[02:46] <Darkside> $$HORUS,3451,02:45:32,-35.96116,139.42410,22,35,11,32,21*714B
[02:46] <SpeedEvil> I was about to ask what the altitude there was.
[02:46] <zindello> That's the last one that got into spacenear.us too
[02:46] <Lunar_Lander> zindello: we had a flight in southern england which turned into a buoy
[02:46] <zindello> Lol
[02:47] <Lunar_Lander> because of the flood setting in, it drifted ashore within one hour
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[02:47] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: What's the tide?
[02:47] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[02:47] <zindello> Out of the 3 I've watched (Two I was or was with the chase team) that's two that have ended up in the water
[02:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[02:47] <zindello> Ah well, can't win them all.
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[02:48] <nigelvh> Darkside: Any signal left on the scope?
[02:48] <cef> unlikely.. nothing they've built has tended to float. ;)
[02:49] <Darkside> could just make out something
[02:49] <Darkside> but its gone now
[02:49] <cef> which is a pity. :/
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[02:49] <nigelvh> Damn
[02:49] <nigelvh> Anyway, you know close to where it might land.
[02:49] <Darkside> i can still see its carrier
[02:49] <cef> Darkside: next time, fly a boat!
[02:50] <zindello> You can still see it's carrier?
[02:50] <zindello> You going to wait until you can't hear it anymore?
[02:51] <adhoc> zindello: it may wash ashore, although if the direction of the flight path is any indication the wind isn't blowing in the right direction, AFAICT
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[02:51] <zindello> adhoc: Yeah that's fair enough
[02:51] <zindello> If there's still a carrier, the foxhunter in me says, get a boat, grab a yagi, and go for a futile effort :P
[02:52] <zindello> But I'm aware that in saltwater, it probably won't last very long
[02:52] <adhoc> i need to finish my tracking station and put it in the cruiser...
[02:53] <zindello> I need to build a yagi, mount it on the roof and point it in horus' general direction :P
[02:53] <SpeedEvil> Me too.
[02:53] <SpeedEvil> (straight down)
[02:53] <zindello> Lol
[02:53] <Darkside> ok
[02:53] <Darkside> we're heading home
[02:53] <zindello> Fortunately I have LOS if it gets higher than 28km.
[02:54] <zindello> Fair enough Mark, what can you say? You tried ...
[02:54] <cef> Darkside: take care!
[02:54] <nigelvh> Nice flight Darkside, hope it washes up for you!
[02:55] <SpeedEvil> Good trip back!
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[03:01] <pschulz> Darkside: Is the payload labeled in case someone finds it
[03:01] <Darkside> no lol
[03:01] <SpeedEvil> Going to do a beachwalk tomorrow?
[03:02] <Darkside> nope
[03:02] <Darkside> too far to get there
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[03:07] <Darkside> ok back in mac
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[03:16] <zindello> Darkside: Have you considered running an SSTV downlink for in-flight images?
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[03:21] <SpeedEvil> fsphil did that
[03:28] <vk5gr> we have considered FSTV 1250MHz FM TV - might not see the 1W signal all the way to apogee but should see it to 20-25km or so
[03:28] <vk5gr> 30dBi rx (10ft dish) may see it 800km away
[03:30] <zindello> I just think it should be intesesting. SSTV happens on a semi-regular basis here on a local repeater, and it could be an interesting payload to run
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[03:30] <zindello> Attach a crappy 320*240 CMOS camera or the like, rig it up to a RadioMetrix module with a micro, and I'm sure it could be done.
[03:31] <zindello> Doesn't need to be any better than 320*240 as, well, after all it is only SSTV
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[03:31] <schofieldau> so
[03:31] <schofieldau> splashdown?
[03:32] <zindello> Yeah
[03:32] <zindello> It went splash
[03:32] <zindello> Didn't recover
[03:32] <schofieldau> damn :(
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[05:31] <lmk> hi!
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[06:44] <UpuHome> morning
[06:44] <x-f> so Horus didn't perform a "landing" :/
[06:44] <x-f> morning
[06:44] <UpuHome> was it recovered ?
[06:44] <UpuHome> My IRC client disconnected in the night
[06:44] Nick change: UpuHome -> Upu
[06:44] <Darkside> Upu: no
[06:44] <Upu> damn
[06:44] <Darkside> look at the tracker
[06:44] <Darkside> it landed 3km off the coast of the coorong
[06:45] <Darkside> that area isn't accessible
[06:45] <Darkside> this further stresses the need for a cutdown
[06:45] <Upu> ah that sucks
[06:45] <Darkside> i really need to get this fucking cutdown pcb finished
[06:45] <Darkside> i'll have to build on navracs system
[06:46] <Darkside> but work out how to deal with receiver shift
[06:46] <Upu> I thought it looked accessible tbh
[06:46] <Darkside> Upu: no
[06:46] <Darkside> it landed offshore
[06:46] <Darkside> and to get to that strip of land, we'd have had to drive a loooong way south
[06:46] <Upu> not wash in with the tide ?
[06:46] <Darkside> then a loooong way north, over dunes
[06:46] <Upu> ah ok
[06:46] <Darkside> we didn't have the time
[06:46] <Darkside> again: need a cutdown
[06:46] <Upu> yeah
[06:47] <Upu> what was on it ?
[06:47] <Darkside> just telemetry
[06:47] <Darkside> but it means we're down another micronut pcb
[06:47] <Upu> have to get your soldering iron out again :)
[06:47] <Darkside> well idont have any more micronut boards
[06:47] <Darkside> well, no blank ones
[06:47] <Darkside> we're running out of the damn things
[06:48] <Upu> can't you get some made ?
[06:48] <Darkside> i could
[06:48] <Darkside> but i don't really want to make any more of that design
[06:48] <Darkside> tbh i might not have much of a choice
[06:48] <Upu> ok whats up with it ?
[06:48] <Darkside> well iv'e started on a new design
[06:48] <Darkside> using a RFM22B
[06:49] <Upu> oh ok
[06:49] <Darkside> we really want to get away from the ISM band around here
[06:49] <Upu> understood
[06:50] <Darkside> we want to move to 430-431MHz
[06:50] <Darkside> means redoing antennas
[06:50] <Darkside> but its a quiet part of the band
[06:50] <Upu> not a massive redo of antenna is it
[06:50] <Darkside> not really
[06:51] <Darkside> tbh the existing antennas will probably work down there anyway
[06:51] <Darkside> but yeah, i don't really have time to make a new flight computer atm
[06:51] <Upu> well got some cheap NTX2's in if you want to make a few more micronut boards
[06:51] <Darkside> mm
[06:52] <Darkside> i might just have to bite the bullet and do that
[06:52] <Darkside> i certainly have enough parts
[06:52] <Upu> use code NTX2 when ordering
[06:52] <Darkside> i have 3 more NEO-6Qs
[06:52] <Upu> 1/3 off or something
[06:52] <Darkside> actually, more than that, but they are on breakouts
[06:52] <Darkside> new board will use the MAX-^qs
[06:52] <Upu> Indeed :)
[06:52] <Upu> I'm going to need to order some more of those
[06:52] <Upu> only got 10 left
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[06:55] <PD3EM> Morning!
[06:55] <Upu> morning
[06:55] <PD3EM> hi upu
[06:55] <PD3EM> any news from horus?
[06:56] <PD3EM> i saw it abt 2km off shore on the tracker
[06:56] <Upu> lost at sea
[06:57] <PD3EM> hope it will float to the coast
[06:57] <Upu> inaccessible area apparently
[06:57] <PD3EM> ah, that's not good...
[06:58] <Darkside> australia - not all of the coast is accessible
[06:59] <PD3EM> no, doesn't look like an accessible coast near the landing spot
[06:59] <Upu> Australia - most of it is inaccessible
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[07:02] <PD3EM> yep...
[07:02] <PD3EM> there's only a small track to the shore abt 40 km south of the balloon.....
[07:03] <Darkside> you'd have to drive up thre beach
[07:04] <PD3EM> or have a boat to recover...
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[07:09] <Darkside> again
[07:09] <Darkside> nearest port is about 50km away
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[07:09] <Darkside> the coorong is really one of those areas that defines 'inaccessible'
[07:11] <Upu> sharks with lasers as well ?
[07:12] <Upu> right off to work bbl
[07:13] <PD3EM> Upu: my mailbox is ready ;-) http://yfrog.com/kj93kdmj
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[07:30] <schofieldau> thar be thunder and lightning
[07:36] <fsphil> yay
[07:39] <x-f> the little joys of summer
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[07:44] <daveake> I see parachute in water .... someone going out in a boat?
[07:44] <Upu2> no
[07:44] <Upu2> inaccessible area
[07:45] <daveake> Ah
[07:45] <Upu2> that bit in the middle is patrolled by sharks with laser beams
[07:45] <daveake> Is that green stuff on the map a swamp o r something?
[07:45] <daveake> Oh no, not the laser sharks!
[07:47] Nick change: Upu2 -> UpuWork
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[07:51] <schofieldau> freakin' laser beams*
[07:52] <number10> Isnt is usual to go and get some fish and chips and wait for it to be washed ashore
[07:52] <daveake> That's what I thought
[07:52] <number10> or is that a special skill
[07:52] <daveake> Guess so :p
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[07:57] <fsphil> uh-oh
[08:01] <schofieldau> damn it number10 I'm craving fish and chips now
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[08:02] <daveake> It's the official food of the "Sea Recovery Club"
[08:02] <schofieldau> (read: seagulls)
[08:02] <daveake> We do allow new members who land in lakes, but they do have to recover first .....
[08:07] Action: daveake zooms out
[08:07] <daveake> Ah that is in the sea. Thought Darkside said iit might land in a lake
[08:11] <number10> it went quite high - maybe more than he expected
[08:11] <daveake> Yeah I just noticed, Assuming it had cameras on then that's pretty high
[08:13] <schofieldau> no cameras
[08:13] <schofieldau> it started floating
[08:14] <schofieldau> drifted SW from expected burst point for quite some time
[08:14] <daveake> What make/size balloon and what ascent rate was it?
[08:15] <schofieldau> no idea
[08:15] <daveake> ok :)
[08:15] <schofieldau> although Darkside would know
[08:19] <daveake> Well from the graph I calculate about 3.8m/s which is definitely float territory
[08:23] <fsphil> that would explain it
[08:23] <fsphil> probably a hoywywerererinator
[08:24] <daveake> Strange GPS hiccup on the graph
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[08:27] Action: schofieldau is writing his first arduino sketch without actually owning an arduino yet :/
[08:27] <schofieldau> anybody know any simulators?
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[08:30] <UpuWork> well given the cost of an Arduino board simulators aren't really needed :)
[08:30] <schofieldau> yep I know
[08:30] <schofieldau> my pro mini clone ($11!) is in the mail
[08:31] <fsphil> there are avr simulators out there but yea, just wait for the real thing :)
[08:31] <UpuWork> See there is wonderfully helpful thread on here : http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1293642004/all
[08:31] <schofieldau> my FTDI programmer was more expensive than my actual arduino
[08:31] <UpuWork> there is a "god member" being an ass hole
[08:32] <daveake> Average internet then
[08:32] <schofieldau> lol
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[08:32] <UpuWork> "RTFM noob"
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[08:33] <daveake> I read a joke thread on pistonheads. It's a very very long thread and sometimes people post jokes that have been posted before. Those though are considerably outnumbered by the "repost" warriors
[08:35] <fsphil> should start a new joke thread-- that'll get them really excited
[08:35] <daveake> One joke was about netrinos and time travel. I forget the joke but it was quickly followed by one of the usual suspects shouting "repost!". So I suggested that perhaps the original post was the repost. That shut him up :-)
[08:35] <daveake> +u
[08:35] <UpuWork> lol
[08:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Curtis "[UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
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[08:49] <fsphil> dl-fldigi question posted to the funcube mailing list
[08:49] <Darkside> is it from a Jose someone?
[08:49] <fsphil> yea
[08:49] <fsphil> seems to be using aprs tracker, so not sure if dl-fldigi will help him
[08:50] <Darkside> yeah
[08:50] <Darkside> i got a direct email from him
[08:50] <Darkside> byonics AFSK radio
[08:50] <Darkside> dl-fldigi won't work
[08:50] <fsphil> maybe in future
[08:50] <fsphil> we could plug into the new aprs modem somehow
[08:51] <UpuWork> Can the RFM22B be used to recieve transmissions from existing trackers ?
[08:51] <Darkside> i just replied t him
[08:51] <Darkside> UpuWork: ...
[08:51] <Darkside> maybe
[08:52] <Darkside> it has a direct mode, which i need to investigate
[08:52] <fsphil> anything else with an rfm22b definitely
[08:52] <UpuWork> so it could be viable to make a low cost reciever
[08:52] <fsphil> ooh
[08:52] <UpuWork> new project
[08:52] <fsphil> what's direct mode do?
[08:52] <Darkside> makes it act like a passthrough FSK devoce
[08:52] <Darkside> device
[08:52] <Darkside> where you do the data and clock externally
[08:52] <Darkside> and it can do that for both transmit and receive, which is *really* interesting
[08:53] <fsphil> that's not what the current flights have been using?
[08:53] <fsphil> that sounds a lot more like the ntx2
[08:53] <Darkside> nope
[08:53] <fsphil> only digital
[08:53] <Darkside> they've been twiddling the frequency registers
[08:53] <fsphil> that would make it the ultimate radio if that works
[08:53] <Darkside> yeah
[08:53] <daveake> For Tx either set the frequency or there's a separate "frequency offset" register
[08:54] <Darkside> though its IIP3 is shiiiiiiithouse
[08:54] <Darkside> -20dBm :(
[08:54] <Darkside> basically means any signals stronger, or around that level will cause intermodulation distortion inside the radio
[08:55] <fsphil> ah
[08:55] <fsphil> needs external filters?
[08:55] <fsphil> or shielding?
[08:55] <Darkside> external filters will help
[08:56] <fsphil> does it have separate RX and TX antennas?
[08:56] <Darkside> hrmm
[08:56] <fsphil> I'm wondering if a little pre-amp could be added to the RX path
[08:56] <Darkside> not sure if the chip on teh RFM22B does, but the RFM22B itself doesnt
[08:56] <fsphil> ah fair enough
[08:56] <fsphil> not sure where I got that idea
[08:57] <UpuWork> It would be amazing to be able to make a little £50 reciever capable of recieving HAB transmissions
[08:57] <UpuWork> you'd probably ever get an LCD on that
[08:57] <fsphil> wouldn't be as sensitive, but if there where lots of them!
[08:58] <fsphil> give the receiver an ethernet port, it could talk to habitat directly
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[08:58] <Darkside> the other issue is tracking drift
[08:58] <fsphil> switch to the frequency of the nearest balloon
[08:59] <UpuWork> lets have a chat about this later
[08:59] <fsphil> also.. we could even fly one of these
[08:59] <fsphil> repeater!
[09:00] <fsphil> if it works... :)
[09:00] <Darkside> i just want a cutdown...
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[09:02] <fsphil> me2
[09:04] <UpuWork> make the computer geofenced and do it itself
[09:04] <UpuWork> make your tracker selfaware..
[09:05] <schofieldau> skynet
[09:07] <schofieldau> any clever arduino-y people
[09:07] <schofieldau> good idea to use a software serial device on other pins
[09:07] <schofieldau> to remove hassle of replugging GPS for FTDI programmer?
[09:07] <schofieldau> or is that not how it works
[09:08] <fsphil> software serial can be somewhat evil
[09:08] <fsphil> prefer the hardware uart if possible
[09:08] <fsphil> but yea you'll get board of swapping them
[09:09] <schofieldau> evil as in deciding to die mid-flight?
[09:09] <schofieldau> or evil as in being a pain to program?
[09:09] <fsphil> it may be unreliable
[09:09] <daveake> I put a microswitch with a big level in the GPS-->Arduino line. Slightly less annoying than using a plug and socket.
[09:09] <daveake> lever
[09:10] <schofieldau> that's a good idea
[09:10] <fsphil> ah
[09:10] <fsphil> that'll work
[09:10] <daveake> It's probably better to use an AVRISP, but my chosen board (Mini Pro) doesn't have the connector
[09:11] <fsphil> does it still have the pins?
[09:11] <fsphil> (ie. can you solder one on?)
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[09:11] <daveake> Only pins aside from the usual ones are for the FTDI
[09:11] <zyp> stop choosing silly boards, if you're going to use avr, at least get one with enough hardware uarts for the intended purpose
[09:12] <fsphil> hehe, yea
[09:12] <fsphil> something with two or more uarts would be ideal
[09:12] <fsphil> or just use isp programming
[09:12] <daveake> zyp The mini pro weighs 1.5g. Can't argue with that for small payloads :)
[09:12] <schofieldau> also cheap
[09:12] <zyp> and what does the chip itself on the mini pro weigh?
[09:12] <daveake> Next to nothing.
[09:12] <daveake> Your point?
[09:13] <daveake> Some day I'll do my own PCB, but till then I buy what's best for the job
[09:14] <fsphil> cheaper to use the mini tbh
[09:14] <fsphil> but custom boards are really neat
[09:14] <daveake> Yeah. One day.
[09:15] <zyp> I bet you could solder to the legs of a dip chip just as easy as a mini pro board, and I don't think that's any heavier either
[09:16] <daveake> I was going to do that actually, but with a PIC, early on
[09:16] <fsphil> I'm going to do that with an soic avr :)
[09:17] <fsphil> daveake's bug give me an idea
[09:17] <daveake> Sure you are, sure you are ... :)
[09:18] <zyp> I deadbugged a tqfp cpld yesterday, and while certainly not impossible, I wouldn't claim it's as easy as soldering to a breakout board :p
[09:20] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
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[09:38] <fsphil> my evil plan is to dead bug it between the gps and radio modules
[09:39] <fsphil> call it a dead bug sandwich
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[09:41] <daveake> lol
[09:44] <zyp> making a pcb is cheap and easy, so I'd do it for anything that won't be one-off
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[09:45] <daveake> Yeah, it's something I've been meaning to get into. It's 30 years since I made a PCB and I realise things have moved on (and smaller!) since then :)
[09:45] <zyp> the only reason I deadbugged that cpld is because I want a prototype to test my jtag code and the boards said code will run on haven't arrived yet
[09:46] <zyp> nowadays pcb manufacturing is cheap enough that there is almost no point in home-etching anymore
[09:47] <fsphil> yea
[09:47] <fsphil> I've done a few boards at home now but its not worth it, considering the quality of the boards seeed and others make
[09:48] <zyp> the only advantage of home-etching is that I can take a board from design to finished board in a fraction of a hour or so if all the equipment is readily available
[09:50] <daveake> Yeah, I really don't think I'm going to go back to home etching
[09:50] <daveake> Otherwise known as "clothe staining"
[09:50] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/mdVxb.JPG <-- I etched some antenna/ground-only variants of this while doing the design, to check the antenna tuning on a VNA
[09:52] <Darkside> gps antenna?
[09:52] <zyp> no, 2.4GHz
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[09:54] <fsphil> I think that would work for gps too
[09:54] <fsphil> (adjusted of course)
[09:55] <zyp> quite possibly
[09:56] <zyp> that antenna is a patented design that my rf prof at uni did for some company
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[09:58] <zyp> but he liked using it as an example, and since I just did that board as a university project, it didn't matter
[10:01] Action: fsphil optimistically checks the status of his Raspberry Pi order ...
[10:01] <Darkside> haha
[10:02] <fsphil> Back order...
[10:02] <schofieldau> how do I use sprintf to construct a UKHAS-compliant string from variables on arduino? I have "lat, lon, fix_age, date, time, speed and course" all stored as variables
[10:03] <zyp> what kind of variables? strings or numbers?
[10:03] <daveake> Depends on what variable types those are
[10:05] <schofieldau> unsigned long fix_age, time, date, speed, course;
[10:05] <schofieldau> unsigned long chars;
[10:05] <schofieldau> unsigned short sentences, failed_checksum;
[10:05] <schofieldau> unsigned long fix_age, time, date, speed, course;
[10:05] <schofieldau> unsigned long chars;
[10:05] <schofieldau> unsigned short sentences, failed_checksum;
[10:05] <schofieldau> unsigned long fix_age, time, date, speed, course;
[10:05] <schofieldau> whoops
[10:05] <schofieldau> also that doesn't have the lat long
[10:05] <schofieldau> my bad
[10:07] <gonzo_> apptly, today is 'pi' day.
[10:08] <fsphil> Darkside, is was the filming done for telly or a company thing?
[10:08] <fsphil> -is
[10:08] <gonzo_> just not raspberry pi day unfortunatly
[10:08] <schofieldau> 3/14
[10:08] <fsphil> I prefer 22/7
[10:08] <Darkside> fsphil: telly
[10:09] <Darkside> a science show
[10:09] <fsphil> got a while to wait though
[10:09] <fsphil> ah brilliant
[10:25] <eroomde> I HAVE A MULTIMETER
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[10:26] <daveake> WOW
[10:26] <jonsowman> eroomde: at last
[10:26] <fsphil> YAY
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[10:26] <fsphil> for forth and multi measure!
[10:26] <fsphil> go*
[10:26] <eroomde> at it's so pretty
[10:26] <cuddykid> morning
[10:26] <daveake> That's no fluke
[10:27] <jonsowman> :|
[10:27] <fsphil> ohm my goodness that's bad
[10:27] Action: daveake gets coat
[10:27] <eroomde> get fsphil's while you're at it
[10:28] <fsphil> I've that many coats now I don't know what to do with them
[10:29] <daveake> Go now fsphil. Don't resist. That would be futile.
[10:29] <fsphil> stop impeding me
[10:32] Action: UpuWork ponders
[10:33] Action: daveake Chokes fsphil
[10:33] Action: UpuWork sets mode +b bad_jokes*
[10:35] <costyn_> moaning peeps
[10:36] <fsphil> zombies?
[10:36] <costyn_> ah yes, multimeters... got a new one the other day too. has autorange which is amazingly useful
[10:38] <UpuWork> I bought a new one too for work, very nice Fluke one
[10:39] <eroomde> autorange is v nice yep
[10:39] <eroomde> i like the min, max and avg feature
[10:39] <eroomde> also the freq and dutycycle measurement is v useful
[10:39] <costyn_> eroomde: when do you use those?
[10:40] <costyn_> (min,max,etc)
[10:40] <eroomde> but mainly i just like being able to trust the mA readings
[10:40] <eroomde> costyn_: for example, my new flight computer does things on a roughly 10s period
[10:40] <eroomde> gps, transmission, writing to sd card etc
[10:40] <eroomde> so during that 10s the current reading changes a lot
[10:41] <eroomde> so i just leave the meter running for 5 minutes measuring mA in avg mode, and it'll give me a good figure for average current consumption
[10:42] <costyn_> eroomde: aaah ok clever
[10:42] <eroomde> likewise max is useful for finding peak current requirements, eg when firing a pyro
[10:42] <daveake> eroomde Does it sample really quickly to do the average?
[10:42] <daveake> Or does it do a true average?
[10:42] <eroomde> that's just a hab specific example, it's useful for work in general i find
[10:42] <eroomde> daveake: I assume it's a sampling system
[10:43] <eroomde> so if you really want to udnerstand your smps you'll want a scope or something
[10:43] <daveake> Me too, it's just that it might miss the blips.
[10:43] <daveake> Run it for a while though and it'll be close
[10:44] <daveake> I don't have any DMMs with an average function, but I do have a couple with PC interface so I can at least leave a board running and average the samples over a long period
[10:44] <eroomde> it's 10hz
[10:44] <eroomde> according to the manual
[10:45] <daveake> A lot quicker than mine then
[10:46] <eroomde> there's also a higher accuracy 1s sample mode
[10:46] <eroomde> which gives you 4.5 digits
[10:46] <zyp> daveake, you'll always have a low pass filter in front of the sampling, so the sampled average will be a true average
[10:46] <eroomde> according to this little blue button
[10:46] <daveake> zyp ok, that sorts it then
[10:47] <zyp> that's elementary sampling theory :p
[10:47] <eroomde> yes that's fine for averaging, not a problem. but the point is in max mode
[10:47] <zyp> true
[10:47] <eroomde> a lpf will hide the max from you if most of its energy is above the cutoff freq
[10:48] <eroomde> which for a pyro firing is probably the case. so, i should be careful when using the max mode to measuring high speed events like that
[10:49] <zyp> but a high frequency max is a pretty useless value
[10:49] <eroomde> depends?
[10:50] <eroomde> if you need that kind of response from, say, an smps, then you need that kind of response
[10:50] <eroomde> i'm not sure that you can make any judgement about 'high' without an context or numbers
[10:51] <eroomde> any*
[10:51] <Darkside> i ended up just overengineering the power supply on my cutdown board
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[10:51] <Darkside> used a SMPS that can handle twice the current i need
[10:52] <Darkside> ended up costing about $1 more than the lower current option
[10:52] <zyp> a max voltage or max current measurement at high frequency is useless because you don't know the time at that value, so you don't know the energy of the pulse
[10:53] <zyp> and it's highly dependant on measurement accuracy, so you can't really use it for anything like that
[10:53] Action: cuddykid awaits postie
[10:53] Action: cuddykid with a bucket of ice cold water :P
[10:54] <zyp> so if anything you'll want a max function to tell you the max value over a reasonable amount of time, which is what you'll get after a lpf
[10:54] <UpuWork> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Zl1_Oo8fFUk#!
[10:54] <UpuWork> check the epic stability
[10:57] <eroomde> nonesense, totally don't agree. That's like saying you don't need decoupling capacitors because look my multimeter says my microcontroller is drawing a steady 20mA. If you don't understand what you're measuring then a LPF will simply hide information from you and make you take away the wrong inference.
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[10:58] <zyp> eroomde, what I'm saying is that a max measurement on a multimeter is not the right tool for that job
[10:59] <eroomde> maybe our wires are crossed then. i agree with you on that ^
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[11:01] <fsphil> does that still need #habe2
[11:01] <jonsowman> probably not
[11:02] <jonsowman> remove it if you can be bothered
[11:02] <jonsowman> :)
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[11:02] <fsphil> not right now :)
[11:02] <zyp> eroomde, I mean, what would you do with a measurement saying, say, your microcontroller have a max draw of 2A?
[11:03] <jonsowman> fsphil: i'll do it later if someone reminds me
[11:03] <jonsowman> bbl
[11:04] <eroomde> make sure my psu system (which includes caps) can supply it!
[11:04] <zyp> for how long?
[11:06] <eroomde> as long as it was needed - if i say that max was 2A and avg was 20mA i'd know there was something sufficiently interesting going on for it to be worth looking at with a scope
[11:09] <zyp> and that's why I claim that the exact value of the max measurement in this case is useless
[11:10] <zyp> because the interesting measurement is the total energy of the pulse, and you don't get that
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[11:11] <zyp> it's kind of like a dirac delta
[11:12] <zyp> ideally it's an infinetely narrow pulse with infinite height, but the interesting property is that the area under the function is 1
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[11:15] <eroomde> i don't think that the interesting measurement is the total energy actually
[11:15] <BrainDamage> peak current actually can be interesting, for instance, ESR of caps would matter, or inductance of the traces, sure, a microcontroller probably won't draw so much, but say a more normal general pourpose microprocessor, hundreds of A peak is not uncommon ( but probably at that point you wouldn't use a multimeter for the measurement )
[11:15] <eroomde> and i'm not sure putting a direc delta through your lpf tells you anything exept the lpf's impuse response
[11:15] <eroomde> it doesn't help you design your circuit
[11:18] <eroomde> but, i fear i must do some work
[11:25] <UpuWork> ping cuddykid
[11:25] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/QYmV6.jpg < 13 days delivery
[11:25] <cuddykid> g'day UpuWork
[11:25] <cuddykid> ohh :/
[11:25] <cuddykid> it's been 20 now here :(
[11:25] <UpuWork> fastest I've see with hong kong donkey post
[11:26] <cuddykid> lol
[11:26] <cuddykid> that is quite rapid!
[11:26] <UpuWork> yeah was suprised
[11:26] <cuddykid> did it arrive this morning?
[11:26] <UpuWork> yup
[11:26] <cuddykid> hopefully mine will arrive before the weekend
[11:26] <UpuWork> yeah
[11:28] <cuddykid> that's nice - the top bidder on my item is called "anyoldshite4sale"
[11:28] <number10> whats the chip under the NTX2 UpuWork
[11:28] <UpuWork> temp
[11:29] <daveake> at least it's not "buysanyoldshite"
[11:29] <UpuWork> and thats the HX1
[11:29] <number10> ha
[11:29] <cuddykid> yes, that wouldn't be good daveake
[11:29] <Darkside> mm i need to get you guys some duplexers, don't i
[11:29] <UpuWork> NTX2 goes on the flip side
[11:29] <UpuWork> you do Darkside
[11:29] <Darkside> well, if you have altium i'll just give you the designs
[11:29] <Darkside> and i have a BOM which you can just order from farnell
[11:29] <UpuWork> Can I just replicate it in Eagle ?
[11:30] <Darkside> would be difficult i think
[11:30] <Darkside> lots of fun microstrip
[11:30] <UpuWork> just send me the gerbers
[11:30] <Darkside> you need to put the silkscreen overlay on to order from seeed tho
[11:30] <UpuWork> put one on then :)
[11:30] <Darkside> i mean, you need to put the order number on
[11:31] <UpuWork> you don't technically have too
[11:31] <Darkside> if you want, just do an order and tell me the order number
[11:31] <UpuWork> ok
[11:31] <Darkside> and i can put it on the pcb
[11:31] <UpuWork> whats the PCB size ?
[11:31] <Darkside> 5x5
[11:31] <UpuWork> cool
[11:31] <Darkside> 100% e-test not required
[11:31] <UpuWork> no its fairly simple
[11:31] <Darkside> yah
[11:31] <Darkside> and the pcb is really easy to constrict :P
[11:31] <Darkside> construct*
[11:31] <Darkside> its all 0805s
[11:31] <UpuWork> ok
[11:32] <Darkside> and every component is labelelled with value too :-)
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[11:32] <UpuWork> well I worked out what smash did in Eagle hence new board is alot tidier
[11:32] <UpuWork> however I didn't check my gerbers correctly as the www.projectswift.co.uk is slightly cut off
[11:32] <UpuWork> need a slap for that
[11:35] <fsphil> it's fine :p
[11:35] <fsphil> as long as the electrons are happy
[11:35] <navrac> so on seeed the 90.90 is per board - min order of 10?
[11:35] <navrac> 9.90 sorry
[11:39] <Darkside> A large-amplitude traveling ionospheric disturbance excited by the Space Shuttle during launch
[11:39] <Darkside> the fuck
[11:39] <Darkside> awesome
[11:39] <Darkside> didnt realise that was possible
[11:41] <UpuWork> yeah navrac very cheap but postage is slow with a capital donkey
[11:41] <fsphil> that poor old donkey
[11:44] <daveake> Own up, who put 750 ohm resistors in the 75k box?
[11:45] <navrac> 99p for a 5cmx5cm board!
[11:45] <daveake> must have been me then :p
[11:45] <navrac> ozzie2 may be delayed due to postage then cos I'm not going to bother etching when the boards are that cheap
[11:47] <jonsowman> UpuWork: boards look great
[11:47] <navrac> how did your fridge test go with the 1402 dave?#
[11:49] <UpuWork> cheers jonsowman
[11:51] <fsphil> trouble is you need to buy 10, which is a waste if you only need 1 :)
[11:52] <daveake> navrac Didn't do it. I'll go and start it soon
[11:52] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Parachutes for Mars"
[11:53] <navrac> one thing crossed my mind - the ncp1400 board uses a 22uh coil and i seem to remember the 1402 needs at least 27 and preferably 47uh so it might be a bit ripply
[11:54] <daveake> Yes, I noticed that.
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[11:54] <daveake> I'll get a 47 from RS
[11:55] <navrac> daveake: can you think if a reason why i can't put two diodes in where they have one to increase the output voltage to 3.6V? I want to combine the output of two 1402's via diodes - one from battery and one from solar but want to keep the 3.3v
[11:58] <daveake> You'll get 3.0 not 3.6
[11:59] <daveake> No, sorry, you'll just lose more power
[11:59] <daveake> Vout goes to "OUT" which is actually a sense input, so it'll maintain the final output voltage at 3.3V
[12:01] <daveake> There are other switchers where you can set the ouptut voltage. Maybe that would be a better option
[12:01] <navrac> i was going to take the actual output between the two diodes - or i guess an easier way of putting it was i'd put a diode in the sense line
[12:01] <daveake> Yeah, might work
[12:01] <navrac> sorry didnt explain that well did I
[12:01] <daveake> I did wonder after I typed my reply if that was what you meant :)
[12:03] <daveake> Possible better option - put a diode between the GND pin and actual ground
[12:03] <navrac> I was going to choose my diodes so that the output from the solar 1402 was 0.1v higher than the battery so that when the solar was available it would be used in preference
[12:04] <navrac> with a supercap on the input to the solar 1402 with that being sensed by the arduino so that I only turn on the gps when I know there is capacity to restart the gps
[12:05] <navrac> basically so it uses solar where possible during the day, at night it drops to low power mode when the batteriews are going so only the cpu is kept alive and in the morning when the supercap is charged it can start the gps
[12:06] <daveake> Interesting. I was looking at supercaps myself. Only secced to -20 but that doesn't mean they won't work lower
[12:06] <daveake> +p
[12:06] <daveake> btw when you did your flight, did you use a disposable He cylinder?
[12:07] <navrac> they dont have great energy density either so i was only viewing supercaps as a short term buffer to handle the gps startup current.
[12:08] <navrac> yep - i reckoned it would do a few pico launches for next to nothing so I could prove all the tech before sending the stuff up higher
[12:09] <daveake> cool ... I was wondering if those things were bulked up with air rather than being 95%+ helium
[12:09] <fsphil> maybe the extra air helped prevent it from stretching too much
[12:09] <navrac> i hink just keeping the payload light is the secret so you just dont put as much in to start with - it was rather floppy on launch
[12:10] <daveake> I'll probably do a pico launch myself soon. I have some balloons and I have a throwaway tracker (one I dunked in the Channel - still works but I don't trust it enough to use where I want the payload back)
[12:10] <navrac> trouble is with all the extra stuff in ozzie 2 i really have to slim it down even more
[12:10] <fsphil> bug sandwich should hopefully launch in a few weeks time
[12:11] <fsphil> got an old sparkfun camera, considering wiring that up and doing the first pico with images :)
[12:11] <navrac> they are lovely and easy to fill and launch.
[12:12] <navrac> I really want to do a live video feed but however i look at it its not really possible to do legally
[12:12] <fsphil> you could but you'd need a very big antenna on the ground
[12:12] <fsphil> and careful aiming
[12:13] <navrac> i can do the big antenna bit and carefull aiming - but what frequency?
[12:13] <fsphil> 2.4ghz is pretty much it
[12:14] <cuddykid> no post yet :(
[12:14] <navrac> yuk
[12:14] <daveake> So it's legal to put a standard 2.4GHz video sender in the air?
[12:14] <navrac> well i was wondering about that too
[12:15] <fsphil> I believe so, I don't have the ofcom pdf handy
[12:15] <fsphil> I'm fairly sure it said they where allowed in the air
[12:15] <navrac> a more pro version but basically a video sender and a remotely placed bloody great big 2.4ghz array or huge dish
[12:15] <daveake> ok, good if so. Wonder how much they drift with temp
[12:15] <navrac> like b*ggery at a guess
[12:15] <fsphil> the signals are quite wide anyway
[12:15] <fsphil> so the drift might not be as big a problem
[12:15] <Hix> So I got bored at work......
[12:16] <fsphil> oh crap, work ...
[12:16] <Hix> http://widerimage.co.uk/docs/SpericalChute.png
[12:16] <navrac> shh i was managing to ignore mine quite nicely till then
[12:16] <Hix> So am I apparently
[12:19] <cuddykid> argh - this is so annoying - copied all the coursework files yesterday but forgot all about the instructions.txt file
[12:19] <cuddykid> and as it's not online yet it means I have to cycle about 3 miles just to grab the stupid text file to know what I'm meant to do!
[12:19] <Hix> damn. Catia crash on save - gotta love it.....
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[12:38] <cuddykid> stupid system doesn't store the txt file locally either :@
[12:38] <cuddykid> appears as though it just grabs it and displays it off the web in a frame
[12:42] <cuddykid> bbl
[12:45] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/14/cameron_denies_ipad_app/
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[12:49] <SamSilver> Hix nice chute, now could you make it stearable please
[12:55] <eroomde> a fine trick that'd be
[12:56] <eroomde> cuddykid: ssh?
[12:59] <NigelMoby> hey Mr ed :)
[12:59] <SamSilver> reboot
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[13:01] <Laurenceb> was horus22 recovered?
[13:01] <NigelMoby> nope
[13:01] <NigelMoby> splash down
[13:01] <NigelMoby> it did that oscillation float trick
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[13:14] <Hix> SamSilver, no idea. Spose it'd have to be a ram chute to steer it.....
[13:16] <SamSilver> nope, but ram much faster ie covers more ground per foot of height lost
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[13:17] <SamSilver> big google link comming up > http://www.google.co.za/imgres?q=steerable+round+parachute&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1360&bih=547&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=7mDQkQ7rht63xM:&imgrefurl=http://www.expo21xx.com/aviation21xx/18543_st3_paragliding-parachute/default.htm&docid=FZcUh8eHTXCK5M&imgurl=http://www.expo21xx.com/aviation21xx/18543_st3_paragliding-parachute/23.jpg&w=450&h=344&ei=NZpgT_vWB8bPhAeO5YXPBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=575&vpy=233&dur=125&
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[13:21] <Hix> http://www.defense-update.com/features/du-1-07/aerialdelivery5-future.htm
[13:24] <Hix> SamSilver, does it matter if you could get it steerable by gps? ^
[13:24] <Hix> for a payload.....
[13:25] <SamSilver> 4.5 ton payload
[13:25] <SamSilver> ;-0
[13:26] <Hix> small scale could be cool.
[13:26] <LazyLeopard> You'd want to be pretty sure of your steering with something that big! ;)
[13:27] <Hix> I think in their operating environment they're not too bothered about dropping it on someones head :)
[13:27] <SamSilver> sure GPS and a <1kg camera pod
[13:28] <cuddykid> I have the instructions!
[13:28] <cuddykid> eroomde: nope, ssh'd in and had a mooch about and nothing - I'm almost certain it just grabs it from a web address
[13:29] <eroomde> Hix: having a payload fly back to you is a hab holy grail
[13:30] <cuddykid> typical - just as I get back, the guy emails me the instructions file! ridiculous
[13:30] <Hix> not necessarily back to you - just out of sploshville
[13:31] <eroomde> that too
[13:31] <Hix> or towards a general direction
[13:32] <Hix> right - this afternoons job - design a foil...
[13:33] <cuddykid> Hix: I don't think you'll manage it with a foil
[13:33] <cuddykid> personally, I can't see the reliability/robustness - hence I'm going for a fixed wing
[13:33] <NigelMoby> meh just launch a boomerang :p
[13:34] <Hix> worth a play with methinks
[13:36] <cuddykid> chasing up the CAA
[13:37] <SamSilver> upvote Hix
[13:37] <cuddykid> if you don't chase them up continually nothing ever gets done
[13:37] <LazyLeopard> http://monologues.co.uk/Les_Barker/My_Boomerang.htm
[13:37] <cuddykid> there are a fair few of us on diydrones that are working on high altitude gliders - none of them knew about this channel!
[13:38] <LazyLeopard> Educate them! ;)
[13:38] <cuddykid> I've pointed them in this direction but they don't seem that interested :S
[13:38] <LazyLeopard> Ah well...
[13:39] <cuddykid> the CAA must give permission to these kind of things as I was chatting to someone who launched one of these from altitude in the UK - http://www.gpsboomerang.com/
[13:44] <eroomde> actually there are some Real Physics reasons why a foil proabaly won't work at high altitude
[13:45] <eroomde> but i've talked about them on here a few times now and my fingers aren't up to doing it again
[13:48] <NigelMoby> hmm theregister are daft, they let a truss on balloons off a tether to float to god knows where.
[13:49] <Hix> i undersatand the air density affeting the performance of a foil at alt, but it's an idea if it could steeer ar it gets lower down
[13:49] <Hix> just to avoid trips to the drink.
[13:50] <Hix> like if alt<=8000 and speedvert <=-2 then steer
[13:50] <Hix> else do nowt
[13:51] <eroomde> it's not even a question of active control or not
[13:51] <eroomde> it might not be passively stable at high alts even
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[13:51] <eroomde> i would consider having it descend under a normal chute
[13:52] <eroomde> then pop a parafoil lower down
[13:52] <Hix> hmm - like a low alt cutdown
[13:53] <eroomde> mmm
[13:53] <eroomde> you could test it like that yep
[13:53] <eroomde> just cutdown at 10km or something
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[13:56] <cuddykid> that's what I'm planning with the glider - cutting away at around 15km
[13:57] <cuddykid> but the design has changed from a boeing scan eagle design to a delta wing design so it should be able to cope with much higher speeds
[13:58] <eroomde> i'd get something working first before you go fast :)
[13:58] <cuddykid> indeed
[14:01] <cuddykid> the guy that I'm working with has done similar stuff before so he knows how to make and integrate different components etc
[14:01] <Hix> right - i've got some work work to do.. bbl
[14:03] <eroomde> it's the control i'd be worried about
[14:03] <eroomde> a slow airframe is a slow airframe if you have control or if you don't
[14:03] <eroomde> a fast airframe is much more painful if you land it on something without control
[14:04] <fsphil> hehe, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17357383
[14:06] <Laurenceb> eroomde: exactly
[14:06] <Laurenceb> one of the many reasons i went rogallo
[14:07] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/Fuhuw.png
[14:07] <Hix> fsphil, they've got a standard clause in their T&C's
[14:07] <Laurenceb> thats what happens if you try pid control on something fast
[14:07] <cuddykid> I had my tesco order cancelled :(
[14:07] <Hix> they won't honour erroneus prices. Had it with a TV before
[14:08] <cuddykid> they're always mispricing - their IT dept must be morons
[14:09] <daveake> s/IT/data entry
[14:09] <eroomde> so cuddykid - i will just re-iterate my advice for completeness on how i would do this if i wanted to maximise my chace of success and minimise my chance of damaging something
[14:09] <eroomde> off the shelf foam glider
[14:09] <eroomde> ardupilot
[14:09] <eroomde> combine
[14:09] <daveake> or someone
[14:09] <eroomde> make it work on the ground first
[14:09] <eroomde> then drop it from 3km from a balloon and see what happens, or something like that
[14:10] <cuddykid> I'm going for - custom foam glider (because of payload bay size etc), ardupilot
[14:10] <gonzo_> do tesco not have a policy that, if there is an error that is their fault, you get the item for free
[14:10] <cuddykid> and yes, it will be thoroughly tested from the ground up :D
[14:10] <UpuWork> meh eroomde you know nothing! model concorde powered by a raspberry pi ftw
[14:10] <cuddykid> lol UpuWork
[14:10] <eroomde> with some rocket motors to get it to 40km first right?
[14:10] <Laurenceb> *cough* rogallo
[14:11] <UpuWork> ram air jets
[14:11] <BrainDamage> scramjets!
[14:11] <cuddykid> rolls jets?
[14:11] <Hix> gonzo_, "Your order is an offer to buy from us. Nothing that we do or say will amount to any acceptance of that offer until we actually despatch an item to you, at which point a contract will be made between us. At any point up until then we may decline to supply an item to you."
[14:11] <UpuWork> and one big fat rolfcopter
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[14:32] <SpeedEvil> Hix: you mean for groceries?
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> Hix: For tesco groceries - the contract as I understand actually happens at your door, as you sign.
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> You can refuse the goods without payment.
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[14:35] <SamSilver> Tesco order stuff up > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17357383
[14:36] <eroomde> 14:04 < fsphil> hehe, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17357383
[14:38] <number10> daveake: those cleats are for 2-5mm diameter rope, if you were thinking of getting some
[14:39] <daveake> Yeah, I noticed that ....
[14:39] <daveake> ... when they arrived :((
[14:39] <number10> what diameter rope do you use
[14:39] <daveake> They might just fit, think mine is 5mm
[14:39] <daveake> I'll check soon
[14:42] <Hix> SpeedEvil, That's Direct's T&Cs. Dunno about groceries
[14:42] <number10> daveake: if not - larger ones here http://www.cleats.co.uk/home/default.asp
[14:44] <daveake> They fit :)
[14:45] <number10> thats good - now I know what size rope to get :)
[14:45] <daveake> lol
[14:45] <daveake> So you want the spares then? :)
[14:45] <number10> I bought a pack
[14:46] <daveake> ah
[14:47] <daveake> The rope I bought in B&Q. 15 lengths for £3-something
[14:47] <daveake> They're in white and pink so they're Upu-compatible
[14:47] Action: UpuWork raises an eye brow
[14:47] <daveake> :)
[14:48] <UpuWork> Swift has some ultra bright white LED's on it
[14:48] <number10> mind you choosing the rope should probably be done more scientifically
[14:48] <UpuWork> no idea how bright
[14:48] <daveake> Shows up quite well so less easy to walk into
[14:48] <UpuWork> I got them with that free £5 offer
[14:48] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/5fj3J.jpg
[14:48] <UpuWork> will test tonight
[14:48] <fsphil> so bright we can probably use them to communicate to the ground
[14:48] <UpuWork> haha
[14:49] <UpuWork> well you can jumper them out if needs be
[14:49] <UpuWork> note jumpers on right
[14:49] <fsphil> yea .. I might do that actually, rtty over led -- the last time I did it I had very small dim leds
[14:49] <number10> cheers daveake I'll check out B+Q
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> Laser diode may be better
[14:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Alistair Currah "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> Though the cheap ones on ebay seem to have gone away
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> I got some 780nm 300mW ones, and a couple of 2nm filters.
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> I meant to do a ranging thing - but haven't gotten it built yet
[14:50] <fsphil> wouldn't that be very directional?
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> you don't use a lens
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[14:51] <SpeedEvil> and indeed probably use a diffuser
[14:58] <Hix> SpeedEvil, I'm looking for something to make a laser tripwire for shutter release on a camera - would that do the trick?
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[15:04] <SpeedEvil> Hix: Sure - I was looking for ranges more like a kilometer, and reflecting off random ground.
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> A beam-break is a hell of a lot easier.
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> And involves rather less signal processing.
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> Unless you need invisible, I'd just go with a random 5mW red laser diode.
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Little tube and photodetector, and you're done.
[15:08] <Hix> ideally invisible - for wildlife, so don't want them scared off by weird light...
[15:09] <eroomde> anyone know to to view hiostorical notmas?
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-980nm-5mW-Infrared-IR-Laser-diode-Module-Pattern-DOT-/251013164869?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a718cef45 - for example.
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Freedom of information request?
[15:11] <Hix> cheers dude
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-780nm-5mW-Infrared-IR-Laser-diode-Module-Pattern-DOT-/251014607918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a71a2f42e - silicon is more sensitive to this wavelength though
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> If you want extreme range - modulate this at 38KHz, and use a 'remote control' receiver
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> Also - you want to get a visible diode, and glue the two together
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> For alignment.
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[15:12] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: you're obsessed with freedom of information requestsw
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Perhaps, I think I'm closing on a dozen.
[15:13] <NigeyS> eroomde
[15:13] <NigeyS> http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/fwf-natsuk/restricted/user/ino/brief_overview.faces
[15:13] <NigeyS> not sure if they have an archive though
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> (It's generally a blunt instrument, and if you can get the information in other ways, it may well be more timely)
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> But the DPA is a powerful tool when government or public bodies won't communicate with you.
[15:15] <eroomde> got it anyway
[15:19] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
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[15:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[15:21] Action: SpeedEvil checks, and finds it's closing on 2 dozen.
[15:21] <eroomde> grenade lobbed ^
[15:21] <Randomskk> hahaha nice
[15:21] <jonsowman> :)
[15:23] <NigeyS> oh dear lol
[15:23] <costyn_> lol
[15:33] <NigeyS> do we have many trackers between cardiff and birmingham ?
[15:33] <daveake> I'm in Berks, which is kinda between the 2
[15:33] <daveake> edmoore too
[15:34] <daveake> and cuddykid further north
[15:34] <NigeyS> hmm okies, cheers!
[15:34] <daveake> planning a launch?
[15:35] <NigeyS> meant to be sunday, might have to bring it forward
[15:35] <daveake> pico?
[15:36] <NigeyS> yup, weather sunday is looking iffy, and may lose my transport, so if i pick thursday, its gonna need as many trackers as possible between here and brum
[15:36] <Hix> what sort of time?
[15:36] <Randomskk> what freq at you on NigeyS?
[15:36] <Hix> I'm working in Cov during the week.
[15:36] <NigeyS> .650
[15:36] <Randomskk> okay cool
[15:37] <NigeyS> thursday would have to be evening, 6pm onwards
[15:37] <Randomskk> we might *might* be relaunching wombat but it can be whatever freq
[15:37] <Randomskk> okay
[15:37] <Randomskk> we'd be earlier than that anyway so no worries
[15:37] <NigeyS> ahh okies adam, ill let you know for definite tonight
[15:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Alistair Currah "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[15:38] <NigeyS> heh he threw ure grenade back at you eroomde
[15:39] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[15:39] <NigeyS> Randomskk, tbh it depends on the postman, balloons havent arrived from steve yet, postie normally comes about 12, so say between 2 and 6pm would be my launch window IF i took it
[15:39] <jonsowman> NigeyS: we'd be looking at launching about midday
[15:40] <jonsowman> but that's only if the radio decides to be nice
[15:40] <NigeyS> ah that should work out ok then, but will let you know after ive spoken to brother in law, if ive still got transport sunday i might risk the rain shower
[15:40] <jonsowman> wombat is programmable frequency anyway
[15:40] <jonsowman> so we can avoid clashing
[15:40] <NigeyS> so unfair! lol
[15:40] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkwosOW181Y
[15:40] <jonsowman> haha
[15:41] <NigeyS> any clues as to why it did the weird thing ?
[15:41] <jonsowman> not really
[15:41] <jonsowman> PLL not locking probably
[15:41] <jonsowman> but it was fine before launch
[15:41] <jonsowman> and when we found it in the field, it was also working
[15:41] <Randomskk> there are no active NOTAMs for andover aerodrome
[15:41] <Randomskk> :/
[15:41] <NigeyS> yeah Adam was saying this morning, maybe it doesnt like flying :/
[15:41] <jonsowman> wombat is scared of heights perhaps
[15:42] <NigeyS> lol hope not!
[15:42] <NigeyS> Randomskk, it may be possible he put in the request but wasnt actually issued the notam
[15:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Alistair Currah "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[15:42] <jonsowman> oh dear ^
[15:42] <NigeyS> he hasnt made it clear if he was SENT the notam
[15:42] <daveake> Whoops
[15:42] <daveake> See latest
[15:43] <NigeyS> eek
[15:43] <GW8RAK> Not good
[15:44] <NigeyS> 5 points for applying, -5 for not following up :(
[15:44] <daveake> -50
[15:44] <Randomskk> or phoned the local tower
[15:44] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[15:44] <daveake> I thought I'd stop there :)
[15:45] <NigeyS> not going to chip in, think maybe the CUSF guys can point him to his error in a politically correct manner.
[15:45] <daveake> lol
[15:46] <jonsowman> well someone should
[15:46] <NigeyS> yes, without doubt, to prevent it happening again, sounds like a genuine "i didnt know" error, but ignorance is not bliss.
[15:47] <daveake> Wonder if the mailing list can be set up so new members get an intro email with "DO NOT LAUNCH WITHOUT PERMISSION" etc in it?
[15:47] <Randomskk> well given as he applied he presumably found the relevant page on the wiki
[15:48] <Randomskk> maybe the wiki needs to be clearer in saying "you must receive permission back", but on the other hand perhaps that should be pobvious
[15:48] <Randomskk> obvious*
[15:48] <daveake> Yes, it would need "if you haven't received permission you don't have it"
[15:48] <daveake> ^
[15:48] <Randomskk> the only currently active NOTAM for radiosonde/noncaptive balloons anywhere near him is CUSF's
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[15:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Alistair Currah "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[15:49] <NigeyS> speaking of airspace, have you seen the restrictions in place during the olympics? good luck getting a notam during that time period :(
[15:49] <Hix> grenade defused and made safe....
[15:49] <daveake> I haven't, but I can imagine
[15:50] <daveake> Get 'em in now :)
[15:50] <NigeyS> http://olympics.airspacesafety.com/airspace-restrictions/restrictions-14-july-2012-to-15-august-2012
[15:51] <daveake> I couldn't get permission last year for the Farnoborough weekend
[15:52] <daveake> -o
[15:52] <NigeyS> yeah farnborough is a knightmare, military class airspace :/
[15:52] <Hix> ever get the feeling that this country is a little too paranoid?
[15:53] <Hix> w.r.t the olympics, not NOTAMS
[15:53] <NigeyS> dont know what you mean, we're only deploying SAMS for the olympics, and typhoon fighters :p
[15:53] <Hix> have we got any SAMS left thought MOD ebayed em all off to get cash
[15:53] <NigeyS> lol prolly borrowed a few from somewhere
[15:54] <gonzo_> at least we don't have stupid things like ITAR yet!
[15:54] <NigeyS> although im sure the u.s would happily sell us some overpriced patriot systems to use
[15:55] <russss> lol
[15:55] <russss> " So, on the 16th July, the small RA (T) morphs seamlessly into CAS (T), still surrounded by the Olympics Restricted Zone (R112), but now with further Olympics CAS (T) to the west"
[15:55] <russss> simple.
[15:55] <russss> seamlessly!
[15:55] <NigeyS> lols
[15:56] <russss> interesting that it all finishes on the 15th of August. Presumably the paralympics isn't as high-profile a target.
[15:56] <NigeyS> good point
[15:57] <eroomde> replied
[15:57] <eroomde> now, work again
[15:58] <Hix> thinking of phishing MOD's paypal account - someone in charge is bound to fall for the scam and they must have a fair bit of cash in there now
[15:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[15:58] <Hix> what with the IP to harrier
[15:58] <Hix> the subs
[15:58] <Hix> the SAMS(?)
[16:00] <Hix> eroomde, how terribly diplomatic.
[16:00] <Hix> What about a freedom of information request as to why paralympics aren't high profile.
[16:01] <Hix> In fact I reckon I can open a massice can of Govt PC worms with that.... he he he
[16:01] <Hix> *massive
[16:01] <NigeyS> lol rather you than me
[16:03] <Hix> I was thinking along the lines of:
[16:03] <Hix> Light touch paper
[16:03] <Hix> pass on to one Mr J Clarkson
[16:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Alistair Currah "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[16:21] <daveake> Anyone know if any of the Canon A-series powershots actually has an iris (i.e. controllable aperture) so can be stopped down for greater depth of field?
[16:22] <daveake> I thought they all had, but many (or all) fake it with an internal ND filter
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[16:38] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
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[16:41] <cuddykid> still no pcbs....
[16:41] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host109-149-178-202.range109-149.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[16:41] <cuddykid> It's now been a month!
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[16:46] <Laurenceb> seeedstudio?
[16:46] <cuddykid> yep
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[16:50] <cuddykid> this is ridiculous, some other person at the CAA has got back saying more than likely the glider can't go ahead unless it's within segregated airspace
[16:53] <Randomskk> not overly surprised...
[16:53] <Randomskk> gliders are kind of contentious
[16:54] <cuddykid> no wonder no great innovations come out of this sodding country, we live in a nanny state
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[16:54] <cuddykid> guess it'll have to be tested elsewhere
[16:57] <cuddykid> I bet if it was an official uni request it might have got some traction - as it's an individual requested they can't be bothered
[16:58] <UpuWork> yay mailing list drama
[16:58] <daveake> lol
[16:58] <jonsowman> it's pretty rare, enjoy it while it lasts
[16:58] <Laurenceb> cuddykid: what about a directional parachute?
[16:58] <UpuWork> That would be amazing if all you had to do was send it to Mr Miller and then go for it :)
[16:59] <Laurenceb> and how do they define a parachute
[16:59] <UpuWork> 12 months waiting for a NOTAM for Baldersley
[16:59] <UpuWork> right home time
[17:00] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: hmm - possibly - it just seems stupid they would allow that and not a foam glider, both of which would cause the same damage (probably non existent) if anything happened
[17:01] <Laurenceb> yes but they dont think like that
[17:01] <Laurenceb> they think glider==not allowed
[17:01] <cuddykid> I know, it's just ridiculous
[17:01] <Laurenceb> parachute==allowed
[17:01] <cuddykid> I blame labour for creating such a nanny state
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[17:01] <Laurenceb> heh
[17:02] <larryone> ooh, nicely populated place
[17:02] <larryone> baloon photography: prototyping with a rotating cam on a cheap compact, pipe dream of a gopro hero
[17:02] <cuddykid> LOL - "find my iPhone" ahahahahahahahahahahahah - good thinking though
[17:03] <cuddykid> oh it just gets better - no notam!
[17:06] <cuddykid> yet again though, having read that, it's the CAA to blame - the procedures there are crazy - inefficient public sector organisation
[17:07] <cuddykid> to be fair to the person, no where does it say "wait a few years, then you'll receive a notam and only then can you fly"
[17:08] <cuddykid> so I can see where a newbie would trip up
[17:08] <Dan-K2VOL> Anyone ever run into Andre Noth?
[17:11] <Laurenceb> cuddykid: fly a rogallo wing
[17:16] <Laurenceb> is there a way to set two different x axes in gnuplot?
[17:16] <Randomskk> yea
[17:16] <Randomskk> plot "bla" axis y1x1, "blabla" axis y1x2
[17:16] <Randomskk> set x2tics
[17:16] <Randomskk> etc
[17:16] <Randomskk> uhm
[17:16] <Randomskk> that first is x1y2
[17:16] <Randomskk> and then x2y1
[17:17] <Randomskk> (it might not surprise you to learn you can also use x1y2)
[17:17] <fsphil> speaking of the CAA, better send in the form now if I want to launch this year
[17:17] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: possibly, I'm going to peruse this glider further though with the CAA
[17:18] <cuddykid> don't want to just let them fob me off easily :P
[17:18] <cuddykid> fsphil: yeah, I sent an email to david miller a few weeks ago requesting permission - and asking a question, nothing back at all
[17:19] <cuddykid> I find the only way to make him respond is by copying the email to the ausops dept and other depts (probably his seniors)
[17:19] <Randomskk> phoning him works well
[17:20] <daveake> +1
[17:20] <eroomde> multimeter (hah that chestnut) to the rescue. had to measure pwm pulsewidth in a pinch and it has both freq (to get pulses per sec) and duty cycle (from which you can calc on time if you know freq)
[17:20] <cuddykid> yep
[17:20] <eroomde> mmm i used to have to phone him to get anything sorted
[17:20] <eroomde> once you get past the 'i'm really very busy at the moment' it would usually get done
[17:21] <NigeyS> meh got a dead led :/
[17:21] <cuddykid> yeah, always get the "I've got so much work on"
[17:22] <cuddykid> it once took him a few days to find my application - if that really was the truth (which I HUGELY doubt) why not computerise it?!
[17:23] <jonsowman> cuddykid: without wanting to defend Mr Miller too much, the AUS has a lot of more important things to do than HAB permissions
[17:23] <daveake> I'll call him next week, to make sure he read the bit about wanting to do 2 launches not the usual 1
[17:23] <daveake> yep
[17:24] <cuddykid> well, his job role seems to be mostly dealing with notams for a variety of activties
[17:25] <cuddykid> it's just a crazy inefficient stereotypical public sector organisation // rant over :P
[17:25] <jonsowman> indeed, but I'm saying it's best not to CC lots of random people to try and get stuff done, as you'll just end up annoying him, which is really not what we (as HAB launchers) want
[17:25] <Randomskk> especially CCing AUSOPS
[17:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Alistair Currah "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[17:26] <cuddykid> lol - I've only done it on the odd occasion when I'm annoyed at him
[17:26] <cuddykid> bbl
[17:26] <daveake> Indeed. Phone works well. He've called a couple of times (we = Mrs Dave - I thought that might help the cause). Once he said he was busy but she pleaded and he got the notam done very quickly
[17:27] <Laurenceb> is there a fat recovery tool for linux?
[17:27] <Laurenceb> so i can find deleted files on a fat partition
[17:31] Action: Laurenceb just screwed up and overwrote a file with zeros
[17:31] <Laurenceb> no wait
[17:31] <Laurenceb> file size was set to zero
[17:32] <daveake> Ah. An undelete isn't going to recover that then. Big file?
[17:33] <Laurenceb> 263KB
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> is it a jpeg?
[17:34] <daveake> So a sector editor is going to be a lot of work ... :(
[17:36] <Hix> can anyone remember the link for helium prices from the week before last? Can't remember day and don't want to trawl logs if i can avoid it
[17:37] <daveake> This one? http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing
[17:37] <Laurenceb> no - ascii data
[17:37] <Laurenceb> not pron
[17:38] <Hix> spot on daveake - going on the wiki now....
[17:39] <Laurenceb> cant i just dd from it or something?
[17:49] <DanielRichman> if you know a unique phrase somewhere in the file, and it's not fragmented, you could grep -b, dd, strings, or something. But it'd probably be easier to just use one a fat deleted file recoverer. I know they exist...
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[18:33] <Hix> has anyone used netduine for a HAB?
[18:33] <Hix> *Netduino
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[18:42] <eroomde> random asside but i don't know if anyone saw 'Frost on Interviews' on bbc4 last night
[18:42] <eroomde> it was one of the best bits of tv i've seen for a while
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[18:58] <F5MVO> good evening all
[19:00] <NigeyS> evening F5MVO
[19:01] <F5MVO> NigeyS, hello
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[19:02] <F5MVO> no news from Ozzie1 ?
[19:02] <NigeyS> no, it's probably in the Sea
[19:03] <F5MVO> like Horus 22 !
[19:03] <NigeyS> yup lol
[19:04] <F5MVO> sorry, as Horrus 22 !
[19:04] <F5MVO> in the Sea !
[19:04] <navrac> dead as a dodo some time ago - although there was a somewhat confusing message about it coming alive in the morning
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[19:04] <navrac> but personally no upload so it doesnt count
[19:05] <navrac> ozzie 2 however should weigh about the same but last 36 hours
[19:06] <Elmar_PD3EM> what are your changes navrac ?
[19:06] <navrac> power conservation, solar power etc, improved efficiency
[19:07] <Elmar_PD3EM> sounds good!
[19:07] <Elmar_PD3EM> How you do the solar power on the egg?
[19:08] <navrac> still working on it
[19:09] <Elmar_PD3EM> ok. but you're gonna use the egg or not?
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[19:14] <Bob_G8NSV> hi all
[19:15] <NigeyS> hi Bob
[19:15] <Bob_G8NSV> You there navrac?
[19:24] <x-f> has anybody tried flexible solar panels ("powerfilm") like - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270733119015 ?
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[19:28] <Bob_G8NSV> Those look useful, light as well
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[19:29] <Bob_G8NSV> one of the power saving problems is not running the tx when not sending data. CW ha been used and would allow a very simple tx to be used. FLdigi can recieve cw at up to 200wpm
[19:30] <Randomskk> poorly though
[19:30] <Randomskk> CW is a terrible OOK protocol for computers
[19:30] <Bob_G8NSV> never tried yet, what is its reliable maximum?
[19:31] <Elmar_PD3EM> you need quite a strong signal to decode CW properly. Or CW ears ;-)
[19:31] <Bob_G8NSV> the problem seems to be the drift of cheap simple tx modules if not left running constantly as navrac has pointed out
[19:32] <Bob_G8NSV> such a waste of battery power when floating
[19:34] <Bob_G8NSV> should be simple to decode low signal strength cw compared to other complex digi modes, I suspect no one has bothered to write a program to do it well 11
[19:34] <jonsowman> does keeping the transmitter running actually decrease temperature drift?
[19:34] <jonsowman> or just make it easier to track?
[19:34] <Bob_G8NSV> according to navrac if you turn them off they take over ten secionds to stabilise
[19:35] <jonsowman> interesting
[19:35] <Bob_G8NSV> bad temperature drift, but they are very cheap
[19:35] <jonsowman> the drift is only a function of crystal temp though
[19:35] <Bob_G8NSV> ideally you only want to key your tx when actually sending data!!!
[19:36] <jonsowman> agreed
[19:36] <fsphil> I got around that by always sending data :)
[19:36] <jonsowman> haha
[19:36] <eroomde> agreed!!
[19:36] <eroomde> more the merrier
[19:36] <Bob_G8NSV> I think navrac has tried to use waste heat to stabilse this but still too much drift
[19:37] <jonsowman> i know jcoxon did a crystal oven
[19:37] <jonsowman> that worked extremely well
[19:37] <eroomde> did he?
[19:37] <Bob_G8NSV> a problem if you want a floating tx to run for days!!
[19:37] <Bob_G8NSV> they use power though
[19:37] <jonsowman> eroomde: yeah he strapped a resistor and a temp sensor to the crystal i seem to remember
[19:37] <eroomde> ah neat
[19:38] <jonsowman> PID controller with the target at about 0deg
[19:38] <jonsowman> was very stable
[19:38] <eroomde> i am gonna try temp comp on the hedgehog
[19:38] <Bob_G8NSV> yes that would work fine but what was the drain?
[19:38] <eroomde> the crimps for whose connectors arrived today, finally
[19:38] <jonsowman> Bob_G8NSV: agreed, it's not exactly power frugal
[19:38] <jonsowman> i don't know quantitively how much power it required though
[19:38] <jonsowman> eroomde: nice :)
[19:38] <navrac> the overall drift on the rfm's isnt that bad - the drift i suffered from was the drift when cxh
[19:39] <fsphil> an older flight (cusf?) measured the temperature and adjusted the frequency
[19:39] <navrac> changing from idle or rx to tx mode
[19:39] <eroomde> fsphil: yes that^
[19:39] <jonsowman> navrac: right, got you
[19:39] <Bob_G8NSV> do you think it's "internal chip drift" rather than the xtal?
[19:40] <jonsowman> it's principally the xtal i think
[19:40] <eroomde> on badger 1, which was i think nova 4 to about nova 13, so about 2007-2009, we put the radio is a big sausage of insulation and heatshrink
[19:40] <eroomde> and it was mighty steady
[19:40] <navrac> i think its a buggette in the libraries that are used - i think they turn off the pll and it takes time to stabilise - i kept the crystal quite toast and there was no way it could be the xtal drifting
[19:41] <jonsowman> i need to play with an rfm22
[19:41] <jonsowman> what is their xtal frequency?
[19:41] <eroomde> what's your latest opinion on the ad part and crystal pulling?
[19:41] <navrac> not great for power saving though - although its more nighttime mode thats important where you might only send 2 packets every 5 mins
[19:41] <navrac> 30mhz
[19:42] <Bob_G8NSV> is there anything like a seperate power supply to the TX PA that could be switched leaving the oscillators running? may need a pcb hack?
[19:42] <jonsowman> eroomde: do you mean the micrel part?
[19:42] <eroomde> sorry yes
[19:42] <eroomde> that one
[19:42] <eroomde> :)
[19:42] <jonsowman> eroomde: http://hexoc.com/u/joey-m-brd.png
[19:42] <jonsowman> picking them up from Cambridge Circuit on friday
[19:42] <eroomde> nice!
[19:42] <jonsowman> then i'll get one made up asap and let you know :)
[19:43] <eroomde> cool
[19:43] <eroomde> hopefully will have hedgehog running on most cylinders this week
[19:43] <jonsowman> it's got a TMP102 so in theory should be able to temperature compensate
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[19:43] <jonsowman> eroomde: sounds good
[19:43] <eroomde> most but not all as i wont have time to get fat32 logging on the sd card
[19:44] <jonsowman> that can wait I guess
[19:44] <jonsowman> got a flight planned for it?
[19:44] <navrac> Bob_G8NSV - i think it can be solved without hacking the pcb.
[19:44] <eroomde> jonsowman: yup
[19:44] <eroomde> want to fly a skylon model
[19:45] <Bob_G8NSV> drop carrier without having to wait for re-lock?
[19:45] <jonsowman> oh nice
[19:45] <jonsowman> when's that?
[19:46] <eroomde> when hedgehog is owkring i guess
[19:46] <jonsowman> heh, right
[19:46] <eroomde> then will order a balloon and chute
[19:46] <eroomde> wanna get a wideangle camera off ebay
[19:46] <navrac> I havent quite figured it out yet - keeping the pll running would help but the turn on drift is proportional to power output - but the xtal is thermally a long way from the tx chip so I'm notsure
[19:47] <jonsowman> eroomde: stills camera?
[19:47] <eroomde> and then will probably try and get a notam for where i am now
[19:47] <eroomde> and fly on hydrogen
[19:47] <eroomde> jonsowman: yep
[19:47] <jonsowman> fair enough
[19:47] <jonsowman> sounds good to me
[19:47] <Bob_G8NSV> I will have to get hold of one to play with
[19:47] <jonsowman> should hopefully be flying Joey in 2-3 weeks
[19:48] <Bob_G8NSV> its such a promising chip
[19:49] <Bob_G8NSV> maybe the drift is due to temp changes on the chip die not the xtal?
[19:50] <Bob_G8NSV> its very tiny so not much thermal inertia
[19:50] <Randomskk> change to the chip die and also crucially nearby capacitors will alter the resonsant frequency of the VCO
[19:50] <Bob_G8NSV> agreed
[19:50] <Randomskk> so even if the crystal was very stable, the VCO might drift out of the region where the PLL can keep it locked
[19:50] <Bob_G8NSV> for what its intended for it wont be a design consideration!!
[19:51] <Randomskk> well temperature stability should have been
[19:51] <Randomskk> you can compensate it by using parts with opposite temperature coefficients
[19:51] <Randomskk> but yea, for budget consumer applications it's probably not high on the list
[19:51] <navrac> yep putting a heatsiknk on the chip helped a bit - but there are so many registers to play with that im sure i can find the right ones -
[19:51] <Randomskk> heh
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> which ic is this?
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> adf7021?
[19:58] <Bob_G8NSV> found it. Pin 3 VDD1 is the supply to the PA block. Removing this should power down the TX between transmissions leaving all else running. As long as the logic doesent think this is a fault it may work
[19:59] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: the one on the rfm22 thing
[19:59] <Bob_G8NSV> unless there is a register for this as navrac may be looking for
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[19:59] <Bob_G8NSV> thats the one
[19:59] <Randomskk> uh, there's almost certainly a register to disable TX, I really wouldn't want to be switching that pin on and off
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:00] <Bob_G8NSV> agreed not unless its the only way
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> whats the issue?
[20:00] <Bob_G8NSV> far better to use whats provided
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> too much frequency drift?
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> swap the xtal
[20:01] <Bob_G8NSV> yes when switching from standby or recieve to tx. means it drifts on start of TX so you cant easily shut down between data transmissions
[20:02] <Bob_G8NSV> its not the xtal
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> ah, as it inits the pll
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> i see
[20:02] <Bob_G8NSV> navrac thinks so looks like hes right
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> how much drift?
[20:03] <Bob_G8NSV> its a cheap consumer device for opening doors and stuff!! we want to use it for long range data comms!!!!
[20:03] <Bob_G8NSV> enough to throw fldigi
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> you mean throw off the afc?
[20:03] <Bob_G8NSV> so im told
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> yeah you should be able to enable pa later
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> alternatively, spare gpio ->p fet -> pull up inductor
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> then you can turn the power on/off as you please
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> but requires some pcb hacking
[20:05] <Bob_G8NSV> thats my thought but if there is a register to do the same in the chip that would be easier. Otherwise its a big magnifier and steady hands!!
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> grab the full si4432 datasheet and take a look then
[20:06] <Bob_G8NSV> if you can only use power when actually sending data you could massively reduce battery life
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[20:07] <navrac> to be honest its only about 22ma
[20:07] <Bob_G8NSV> It's an adf7021 and there is a seperate pin, its pin 3 pa block supply
[20:07] <Randomskk> wait, what?
[20:07] <Randomskk> what's an adf7021?
[20:08] <Bob_G8NSV> the chip the rfm22 uses
[20:08] <jonsowman> what?
[20:08] <jonsowman> is it?
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> no
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> si4432
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> silabs
[20:08] <jonsowman> Laurenceb_: where's that documented?
[20:08] <jonsowman> i was looking for it the other day
[20:08] <Bob_G8NSV> ahh I saw adf7021 in your message will look at the right data sheet now!!
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> jonsowman: its not
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> but you can see the rfm22 stuff is lifted from silabs
[20:10] <jonsowman> Laurenceb_: got it
[20:10] <jonsowman> thanks
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> annyoingly even the full silabs datasheet doesnt tell you everything
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> you need to look in the app notes for all the smith charts
[20:11] <jonsowman> oh god smith charts
[20:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Re: balloon support"
[20:11] Action: Laurenceb_ uses si4432 on Dactyl, talking to a si4432 eval board off ebay + olimexino board
[20:12] <Bob_G8NSV> no seperate power pin for tx block. Registers or nothing
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[20:12] <Laurenceb_> Bob_G8NSV: not true
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> you use a pfet to the pull up inductor
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> on the output
[20:13] <Bob_G8NSV> looking at data sheet which pin?
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> look at the "PA matching" app note
[20:13] <Bob_G8NSV> ok
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[20:15] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:15] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[20:15] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> cross out gliders
[20:16] <daveake> :)
[20:16] <jonsowman> Laurenceb_: ha
[20:16] <jonsowman> maybe i should
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[20:20] <Bob_G8NSV> got that, there is a supply on the board through a choke to pin 2. Would it tolerate us removing this and staying in lock ready to go? still agree with navrac a register would be better
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:21] <Randomskk> yes but it might be kinda worse in general, plus a total pain to implement. I can't imagine there's no register to turn off/turn right down the PA level
[20:22] <Bob_G8NSV> it would seem daft that there isn't. Probably buried in the documentation somewhere
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[20:22] Nick change: Lily -> Jessica_Lily
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[20:22] <Bob_G8NSV> just to be able to half the duty cycle would be great
[20:22] <navrac> look at an440 lots of badly described registers to play with
[20:22] <Randomskk> doesn't it have configurable PA levels?
[20:22] <navrac> yep
[20:22] <jonsowman> the datasheet says it does
[20:23] <Randomskk> so just set the level to 0
[20:23] <Randomskk> or, rather, the lowest it can do in dBm
[20:23] <Randomskk> I mean, there's probably a bit to disable the PA entirely
[20:23] <Bob_G8NSV> would make sense
[20:24] <navrac> I did set it to 1dbm - but i was using it as a receiver in the breaks so i had the pa off entirely
[20:25] <navrac> I did do experiments turning the level down and from memory it was a lot better - but to be honest i didnt make notes as iozzie was meant to be about receive performance
[20:25] <Bob_G8NSV> if you dont go to recieve and leave the tx freq set it may not drift then?
[20:25] <Bob_G8NSV> or as bad
[20:26] <Bob_G8NSV> if the drift after recieve can be fixed that would be the real ace tho
[20:26] <Bob_G8NSV> true instand tx/rx
[20:26] <navrac> I cant remember well enough - sorry - I think from memory it was pretty stable
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[20:27] <Laurenceb_> oh wait yeah
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> why not just set to 1dBm
[20:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "[UKHAS] NOTAMS"
[20:27] <Bob_G8NSV> I must get one asap. I will have a good play at work one weekend shift. Lots of nice test gear!!
[20:28] <navrac> I did try that laurenceb_ but i cant remember the results
[20:29] <Bob_G8NSV> dont worry, what you achieved with ozzie was a real inspiration
[20:30] <Bob_G8NSV> the great thing is its cheap enough to get more people interested in groundstations for future flights
[20:30] <Bob_G8NSV> the more uplinks the better!
[20:31] <Randomskk> you say that
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[20:31] <Bob_G8NSV> well not too many!
[20:31] <Randomskk> :P
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> what about register 0x07?
[20:32] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] NOTAMS"
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[20:34] <Laurenceb_> " TUNE Mode
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> In TUNE mode the PLL remains enabled in addition to the other blocks enabled in the IDLE modes. This will give
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> the fastest response to TX mode as the PLL will remain locked but it results in the highest current consumption.
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> This mode of operation is designed for frequency hopping spread spectrum systems (FHSS). TUNE mode is
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> entered by setting pllon = 1 in "Register 07h. Operating Mode and Function Control 1". It is not necessary to set
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> xton to 1 for this mode, the internal state machine automatically enables the crystal oscillator.
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> "
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> looks like what you want
[20:35] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] NOTAMS"
[20:36] <Bob_G8NSV> that may well be the kiddie!
[20:36] <Bob_G8NSV> if they use it for hopping the pll must have a really fast settle time
[20:37] <Bob_G8NSV> so no drift between tx rx?
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> i guess so
[20:37] <Bob_G8NSV> unless the makers of the rfm22 board are using cheap components somewhere which defeat the manufacturers good work?
[20:38] <Bob_G8NSV> if so identify and replace?
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[20:40] <Laurenceb_> i doubt it
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> maybe the xtal is poor
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> but otherwise it should be ok
[20:43] <Bob_G8NSV> the crystal is apparently a long way from the chip and any heat source, its not likely that. worth enabling those registers so it is in tune mode and ready for rapid changes. There may be more tweaking in there somewhere
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[20:43] <eroomde> whois SebastianFlyte
[20:43] <Bob_G8NSV> I will get one ordered and hooked up to my arduino
[20:44] <eroomde> good use of forward slash there
[20:44] <jonsowman> yes that was excellent eroomde
[20:44] <jonsowman> :P
[20:44] <eroomde> irc native, me
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> how do I write into the mailing list?
[20:44] <jonsowman> haha
[20:44] <daveake> lol
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> just have to login into my google account?
[20:44] <daveake> whois eroomde
[20:44] <daveake> :p
[20:44] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: just email ukhas@googlegroups.com
[20:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] NOTAMS"
[20:44] <eroomde> ha yes
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> well but I want to answer that one thread
[20:45] <eroomde> it was as i thought he's logged in on a server called moorcock
[20:45] <daveake> Seems to me that the drift happens far too quickly to be caused by something away for the chip
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> the dust counter one
[20:45] <eroomde> giggle
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[20:45] <daveake> lol
[20:45] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: just reply to the email
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:45] <eroomde> his use of olde testamente units means he might be 'murikan
[20:45] <eroomde> so the rules are different
[20:46] BEert (5bb5b1ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[20:46] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] NOTAMS"
[20:46] <eroomde> ^
[20:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] NOTAMS"
[20:46] <Randomskk> and also incoming
[20:46] <Randomskk> ^
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:47] <Bob_G8NSV> daveake yes without doubt this is what navrac thinks also
[20:48] <Bob_G8NSV> I think only some trials will solve this. Hands on needed!!#
[20:48] <Bob_G8NSV> are the rules for pico launches on line anywhere had a look and cant find them?
[20:49] <eroomde> see the latest email
[20:49] <Bob_G8NSV> less than 2m in any direction?
[20:49] <eroomde> yep
[20:49] <eroomde> c'est tout
[20:49] <Bob_G8NSV> ta
[20:49] <daveake> I ran a test yesterday with an rfm22b tracker in the garden. No insulation. It drifted back and forth a lot with the wind
[20:49] <Bob_G8NSV> that noticeable?#
[20:49] <daveake> yep
[20:50] <Bob_G8NSV> that implies a very small component with very little thermal inertia?
[20:50] <Bob_G8NSV> loosing and gaining heat very quickly changing value?
[20:50] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] NOTAMS"
[20:51] <daveake> It didn't drift. I never needed to adjust the receiver. But the lines would swing back and forth and it was pretty obviously the wind doing it. This was at 300baud (so wide bandwidth set in dl-fldigi) and it tracked with no probklem
[20:51] <daveake> Yes, that's how I see it
[20:53] <Randomskk> perhaps try it with and without a wind shield
[20:53] <Randomskk> but that seems pretty reasonable
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[20:55] <Bob_G8NSV> potting compound?
[20:55] <eroomde> a box?
[20:56] <Bob_G8NSV> a lot of things are potted to improve thermal stability
[20:56] <Bob_G8NSV> weight tho!!
[20:56] <Bob_G8NSV> lots of foam I think
[20:56] <daveake> My Buzz payload last flight used an rfm22b, inside a 100m ball. How was the drift on that?
[20:57] <NigeyS> i just covered my ntx2 xtal in hot glue, and worked a treat at stabilising shift a bit
[20:57] <daveake> Seemed OK while I was tracking it
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[20:58] <Bob_G8NSV> well im getting one and will have a good play, seems like others use tham and they work fine, you cant argue for the money!
[21:01] <Bob_G8NSV> cheers for now all
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[21:03] <number10> eroomde: visitor to my garden the other night - has a connection with your balloons from CUSF http://imgur.com/mNHBy
[21:03] <Upu> nice
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> very
[21:03] <jonsowman> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3887463146/in/set-72157621846323425
[21:04] <jonsowman> i see the resemblance
[21:04] <eroomde> heh
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not jealous
[21:04] <number10> likes bird seed
[21:04] <eroomde> good omen
[21:04] <eroomde> though the badger line seems to have gone into retirement
[21:04] <eroomde> is there ever to be a badger 3?
[21:05] <Randomskk> hmm I guess there could be actually
[21:05] <jonsowman> yeah i don't see why not
[21:05] <Randomskk> but yea, I dunno, we seem to just keep getting new animals instead
[21:05] <number10> well I'll take a picture of a hedgehog for the next one
[21:05] <jonsowman> perhaps we should keep badger for rocket stuff
[21:05] <Randomskk> wsn't that going to be something else? I can't remember what
[21:05] <Randomskk> raccoon
[21:05] <jonsowman> but 'raccoon' is so appropriate
[21:05] <jonsowman> we'll find another use for badger
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[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> nooo Upu just left!!
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> just when I thought that I needed to ask him something
[21:17] <daveake> His crystal ball is working then
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[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> what is a crystal ball?
[21:18] <NigeyS> rofl
[21:18] <daveake> A device to con people out of money
[21:18] <navrac> its when you 'nadgers' are a bit sensitive
[21:18] <daveake> Er, I mean, a device to help tell what will happen in the future :)
[21:19] <Elmar_PD3EM> Upu must have a power outage.... otherwise impossible that he has left the channel ;-)
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: xD you mean the fake version of a
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> flux capacitor?
[21:19] <daveake> er, sure
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> btw I just noticed
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> I just got confused because so much talk was here about XTALs
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[21:23] <navrac> im bored of reading datasheets, I want to build something
[21:23] <eroomde> pirate - the derivative of a transcendental number
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> got an emergency question
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> does spacenear work at your places?
[21:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] NOTAMS"
[21:25] <Elmar_PD3EM> Lunar_Lander: yep
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:26] <navrac> sticking on refreshing and not loading flight data
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> it will eventually
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> there's a lot of data
[21:27] <daveake> fine here
[21:27] <Elmar_PD3EM> on start it zooms into the horus22 flight
[21:27] <daveake> but I've had it open for a while as I'm doing some testing
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> horus flights generate a lot of data
[21:28] <fsphil-laptop> them with their 300 baud :)
[21:30] <daveake> Ah, one of mine is too :D
[21:30] <daveake> I didn't think of that being a problem :D
[21:30] <daveake> I'll stop that one logging.
[21:31] <Jessica_Lily> Hey folks, I'm having a problem with http://spacenear.us/tracker/ I'm using safari version 5.1.3 (7534.53.10) on Mac OS X 10.7.3 You can see here http://cl.ly/1E2y17162z3t3k0c3z2o
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> I can clear your data daveake if you want
[21:31] <daveake> Done. If anyone wants to delete the Buzz data pleaae go ahead
[21:32] <daveake> ^^
[21:32] <eroomde> Jessica_Lily: always refreshing?
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> Jessica_Lily, it should load eventually
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> how long has it been?
[21:32] <daveake> Leave CLOUD on though please
[21:32] <navrac> i just had to wait - quite a long time
[21:32] <daveake> CLOUD only updates every 5 mins, via SMS, so there's not much data behind that one
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> buzz cleared
[21:33] <daveake> tvm
[21:33] <Jessica_Lily> a long time but isn't there meant to be data or something? ( Lunar_Lander can tell you more of it )
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> does that make me a buzzkill?
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I can see Horus 22's track and the tabs for HORUS, BUZZ, AVA and so on
[21:33] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: yes
[21:33] <jonsowman> :P
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> using ubuntu 11.10 and Firefox 10.0.2 (or so)
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> that version
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> immediately loads
[21:34] <fsphil-laptop> who's astra1?
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[21:35] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: southampton
[21:35] <jonsowman> it's flying on friday i think
[21:35] <jonsowman> Matt_soton knows more
[21:35] <Matt_soton> do i?
[21:35] <jonsowman> ASTRA
[21:35] <Matt_soton> what about it? :P
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> what is it? :)
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> and can i clear that from the tracker too ? :)
[21:36] <Matt_soton> something the engineering department does
[21:36] <Matt_soton> its on th tracker? :\
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde: any idea why it doesn't work for her?
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> hasn't moved much
[21:36] <Matt_soton> if its old then yes
[21:36] <Jessica_Lily> Lunar_Lander: lol it's just come up
[21:36] <Jessica_Lily> after AGES
[21:36] <Matt_soton> by old <1hr
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> YAY
[21:36] <Matt_soton> >1hr even
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> Matt_soton, it's live now
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[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> I'll leave it
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> guess they're testing
[21:37] <Matt_soton> well engineering people are probably testing after i gave it to them today
[21:37] <Matt_soton> so after theyve done
[21:37] <Matt_soton> done clear it on friday (with any luck)
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> I was reading crees webpages, and found their latest blue LED is over 50% efficient.
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> Getting silly.
[21:38] <daveake> That's more than 'king bright:)
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[21:40] <navrac> fmethatsbright? I'll register the domain
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:40] <fsphil-laptop> do not test LED with remaining eye
[21:46] <daveake> And "I told you so" in braille
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[21:47] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:53] <Elmar_PD3EM> gonna go... good night all!
[21:53] <fsphil-laptop> night elmar!
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[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> quick
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> how was that ski jumper called?
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> that eddie the eagle guy
[21:58] <daveake> eddie the eagle
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[21:58] <fsphil-laptop> beat me daveake
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD no the real name
[21:59] <daveake> wikipedia is your friend
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[22:06] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] solar no NOTAMS?"
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[22:15] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
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[22:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-MP-Camera-Replacement-Repair-Parts-Nokia-N8-New-/251009951585?pt=UK_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item3a715be761 hmm
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[22:21] Action: SpeedEvil finds LVDS annoying.
[22:24] <Randomskk> yea really
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[22:25] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: i thought NIR was most efficient?
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> 12 megabytes or so, and probably 2 LVDS channels does not make that easy to use
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: It is - but that was visible.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> And recent.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> Or it was
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> i see
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[22:26] <Laurenceb_> but i havent seen more than about 35% in NIR
[22:26] <HixPad> Anyone got any resources for para foil designs? Got 10m of ripstop needs playing with.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> It also makes 'remote phosphor' lamps interesting.
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Because if you only have half the power dissipated at the LED, and the rest at the glass/... 'envelope' - it's lots easier to heatsink
[22:27] Action: Laurenceb_ rages at PID control
[22:27] <HixPad> And mother dearest will not suspect why I wish to learn to use a sewing machine :)
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> been trying to make it work all day :(
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> For?
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> pneumatic actuators
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if gas temperature is being annoyin
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> pump -> T junction with pressure sensor -> 1m hose -> actuator
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> its an utter pita to control
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> unless you want a ~20hz oscillator
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[22:38] <Laurenceb_> the pump chucks out tons of pressure noise
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[22:38] <Laurenceb_> so i added a filter, but that give slag
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> so its a diaster
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> *disaster
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[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> hi schofieldau
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[22:57] <SpeedEvil> Is the pump a constant frequency?
[22:59] <schofieldau> hey Lunar_Lander :)
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> hi Zuph
[23:00] <Zuph> Hola
[23:02] <schofieldau> good
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> how is going with speedball?
[23:02] <schofieldau> programming arduino
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> schofieldau: nice to hear
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> for a balloon?
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[23:03] <schofieldau> yep
[23:03] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Haphazard as always. At least my part is generally working well.
[23:03] <schofieldau> first venture into C++ style programming
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> schofieldau: cool, what arduino do you use
[23:04] <schofieldau> don't even actually have it yet :P
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok Zuph, do you think you can fly this year?
[23:04] <schofieldau> but it's in the mail
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:04] <schofieldau> pro mini clone 3.3v@8mhz
[23:04] <schofieldau> just writing sketches
[23:04] <Zuph> schofieldau: Careful with that. The Arduino doesn't support a lot of "traditional" C++ things.
[23:04] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: That's probably more dependent on weather than anything. We're currently experiencing an early spring.
[23:05] <schofieldau> Zuph: yeah I've been only reading arduino refernces
[23:05] <Randomskk> yea, steer clear of classes and exceptions and floating point numbers and the STL and the rest of the standard library and you should be fine :P
[23:05] <daveake> lol
[23:05] <Randomskk> oh and definitely avoid 'new' and related keywords and functionality :P
[23:05] <schofieldau> yep floating point is a no go
[23:05] <schofieldau> going to leave the gps coords in NMEA format
[23:05] <schofieldau> which is non-floating point afaik
[23:05] <Zuph> Heh. Classes are okay if you know what you're doing.
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:06] <schofieldau> so for me classes are not okay :P
[23:06] <fsphil-laptop> you can do proper coordinates without using floats
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> how?
[23:06] <schofieldau> strings?
[23:06] <Randomskk> schofieldau: I would advise parsing them
[23:06] <schofieldau> or chars or whatever arduino calls them
[23:06] <Randomskk> as NMEA format doesn't even do + or -
[23:06] <fsphil-laptop> nah, proper integers
[23:06] <fsphil-laptop> fixed point
[23:06] Action: Lunar_Lander lowers his head
[23:06] <Randomskk> and is "ddmm.mm" which is a bit annoying
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> so arduino doesn't work at all?
[23:07] <Randomskk> though the web thing can do it
[23:07] <schofieldau> how woudl I parse the NMEA and get + or - from it?
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[23:07] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: no
[23:07] <schofieldau> also it'd be safe to assume it's not going over the equator or date line
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> i use a digital bessel filter an integral control
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> *used
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> and it almost works
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> but the bessel has corner and cutoff of 5 and 10hz
[23:08] <Randomskk> schofieldau: it's the N/S and E/W digit
[23:08] <schofieldau> ah okay
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> end result is when the pump slows down when it gets to pressure, the pressure fluctuations go through the filter
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> and screw with the pid
[23:09] <schofieldau> also I'm going to figure out github once I get home then open source it
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> s/pid/integral control
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> if i lower the filter frequency i get slower response and more lag
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> so im doubly screwed
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> so arduino doesn't work at all schofieldau, fsphil-laptop?
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: some sort of tracking filter to kill the pump?
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> pump is running of ~200khz pwm
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> with variable duty cycle
[23:10] <fsphil-laptop> it works quite nicely?
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> so its rev speed changes
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: hmm maybe
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[23:10] <SpeedEvil> I guess you could cheat and use a rev sensor
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> i thought of some sort of lag compensation using a forward model
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> but its gets very complex
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[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop: but above the people said that something is difficult
[23:11] <fsphil-laptop> difficult is subjective
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> A rev sensor would make it 'easy' I guess
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> i guess i could make a "cheat" filter
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> take last ~100ms of values
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> and e.g. take average of min and max pressure
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> as pump gives about actual pressure +-50%
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Or two pressure sensors?
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> And sense the p-waves
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> hmm yeah
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> You don't have any control other than the motor speed?
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[23:17] <Laurenceb_> theres a solenoid valve that can dump air
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> i dont really want to pwm that :P
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[23:17] <SpeedEvil> Is this a blood pressure cuff?
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> a highly modified one yes, using a lloyds pharmacy unit with the tronics gutted
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> and replaced with an stm32 board
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> For any reason other than you can?
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> Or is it work.
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> work
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> its running an ofdm modulated led cluster on the cuff
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> so i have a spectrometer on it
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Funky.
[23:22] Action: SpeedEvil wishes someone would get transcutaneous glucometry working.
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> have you tried turning it off and on?
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> (no idea what it is)
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> (but it sounds cool)
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> thats one of the ideas with this
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Fun.
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> _way_ too many patents in the area.
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> when you can squeeze the blood and and do spectrometer lots more becomes possible
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> and led cluster driven off pwm is also a very cheap way to build a spectrometer
[23:26] Action: SpeedEvil patents 'A device using one or more of the strong, weak, electromagnetic or gravitational forces as sensors, and having actuators employing one or more of the above sets of forces, with a computing element'.
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Actually - I suspect that carefully drawn, you could probably get that patent.
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> yeah my pwm spectrometer _seems_ to be patented by Masimo Inc
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[23:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] NOTAMS"
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> btw fsphil-laptop
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> what exactly was discussed above about arduino?
[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> just what you see
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[23:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Alistair Currah "[UKHAS] Balloon footage."
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop: I think I got it now
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> the classes that C has don't work
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> that was what my slovenian friend Janez also had to experience
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> OHH
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> there was an unauthorized launch?
[23:59] <fsphil-laptop> eek, power lines
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> where?
[00:00] --- Thu Mar 15 2012