highaltitude.log.20120310

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[00:40] <Morseman> Time for bed
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[00:50] <MLow> my phone just told me a balloon launched named APEX III
[00:51] <MLow> what is this sorcery
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> tracker says apex sundya
[00:55] <NigeyS> MLow, apex is sunday
[00:56] <NigeyS> i had the same alert lol
[00:56] <Darkside> haha
[00:56] <Darkside> google calendar stuff
[00:56] <Darkside> i dunno how
[00:56] <NigeyS> yup lol, morning Darkside
[00:56] <Darkside> 11:30am :P
[00:56] <Darkside> ok shower time
[00:56] <NigeyS> no singing now!
[00:57] <MLow> weird
[00:57] <MLow> i never signed up for that
[00:57] <NigeyS> nor me ... :|
[00:57] <MLow> quite peculiar
[00:59] Nick change: MLow -> MLow-werk
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[01:45] <NigelMoby> hmm 225mb update for my phone, wonder if its ice cream sandwich
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[02:47] <NigelMoby> Eugh sense 3.0 sucks
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[02:51] <Gnea> http://aprs.fi/info/a/KB0MGQ-11 <-- long duration in process
[02:51] <Gnea> process? progress? lol
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[02:56] <Darkside> only just launched?
[02:58] <NigelMoby> oo, not seen a notice for a long duration anywhere...
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[03:02] <Gnea> it's usually not posted in most public places
[03:03] <Gnea> Darkside: yeah, launched an hour or two ago
[03:05] <navrac_> can you see the altitude in the raw packets?
[03:06] <Gnea> yes
[03:06] <golddragon24> Whoah, huh, that's gonna pass almost directly over my house if it keeps going.
[03:06] <Gnea> golddragon24: where are you at?
[03:06] <navrac_> is that the NG/A?
[03:07] <golddragon24> North Liberty
[03:07] <golddragon24> I'm down in St. Louis right now though (about 300 mi south).
[03:08] <Gnea> @ 8110 ft now
[03:08] <Gnea> NG/A?
[03:08] <Gnea> golddragon24: that's always a fun drive (I'm in Ames)
[03:08] <golddragon24> Fun drive? Ha, yeah, sure. I'm doing it tomorrow, as it's the start of our spring break.
[03:09] <Gnea> my spring break isn't until the week after next, it distresses me
[03:09] <navrac_> in the raw packet data ther is the entry MG/A=008204
[03:10] <golddragon24> So you're up at ISU? I've got a few friends up there.
[03:10] <Gnea> yeah
[03:11] <Gnea> 8153 ft now
[03:11] <golddragon24> How long is it supposed to be up?
[03:14] <Gnea> until it goes down
[03:15] <Gnea> I'm tracking it with xastir
[03:17] <adwiens_> hey golddragon
[03:17] <golddragon24> hey wiens
[03:17] <adwiens_> Gnea: cool project! how are you doing long duration? are you using a latex balloon or a special kind?
[03:18] <Gnea> adwiens_: I think they're using a latex balloon this time around... not 100% sure as I wasn't at the launch this time
[03:18] <Gnea> what I DO know is that the balloon is old
[03:18] <adwiens_> haha gotcha
[03:18] <Gnea> :)
[03:19] <adwiens_> is it transmitting aprs packets or are they reporting via the internet?
[03:20] <adwiens_> er thats a silly question either way they are going thru the internet, i mean like packet radio versus RTTY or some other kind of modulation
[03:20] <Gnea> aprs
[03:21] <Gnea> it seems to be floating up and down between 7900 and 8200 feet
[03:25] <golddragon24> Is this through a group at ISU or someone else?
[03:27] <Gnea> yes, at ISU
[03:27] <Gnea> it's called HABET
[03:28] <Gnea> = High Altitude Balloon Experiments in Technology
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[03:35] <adwiens_> As long as this doesn't happen they should be good: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/161687.stm
[03:38] <SpeedEvil> I guess you'd want to shoot tangent to it.
[03:40] <SpeedEvil> Also - using the wrong ammo.
[03:40] <SpeedEvil> '500 cannon rounds'
[03:41] <SpeedEvil> Should have used chain shot.
[03:41] <NigelMoby> lol madness
[03:48] <Gnea> lol
[04:39] Nick change: MLow-werk -> MLow
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[08:14] <PD3EM> Good morning!
[08:15] <PD3EM> I got a question about the circuit diagram on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[08:17] <Colin-G8TMV> Best thing to do is just ask it and wait for a reply
[08:17] <PD3EM> when I want to be able to change frequency (and maybe shift) for the ntx2...
[08:18] <PD3EM> are R4/5 (22k) for freq and r2 (4k7) for shift?
[08:19] <jcoxon> morning
[08:19] <PD3EM> is best to use 2 variable resistors replacing r4 and r5?
[08:19] <Colin-G8TMV> I'm not an expert, but I believe the voltage on the TXD pin sets the frequency.
[08:19] <PD3EM> morning james
[08:20] <Colin-G8TMV> Morning jcoxon
[08:20] <jcoxon> PD3EM, my suggestion is to initially use the variable resistors
[08:20] <jcoxon> to get the right shift
[08:20] <jcoxon> then swap them for fixed resistors
[08:20] <Colin-G8TMV> presumably multiturn pots so you can set it accurately
[08:20] <PD3EM> yep, those small blue ones
[08:21] <jcoxon> they are quite solid so i guess you could leave them
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[08:21] <PD3EM> but which resistors should be replaced with variables?
[08:22] <PD3EM> the 2 22k ones?
[08:22] <Colin-G8TMV> if you do leave them in put a drop of nail varnish or similar on the screw head after you set them to prevent accidental movement
[08:22] <PD3EM> good idea
[08:22] <jcoxon> PD3EM, well if you are going for variables
[08:22] <Colin-G8TMV> no - replace all three resistors with two pots
[08:22] <jcoxon> you only need to have one on each
[08:22] <jcoxon> exactly
[08:23] <jcoxon> this flight has been going for a while: KB0MGQ-11
[08:23] <PD3EM> yes, ofcourse.....
[08:23] <Colin-G8TMV> the only reason there are two resistors in the "mark" lead are to get an accurate value
[08:23] <PD3EM> I guessed that the 4k7 makes the 425 shift
[08:24] <Colin-G8TMV> no - the difference between 22k and 26.7K makes the shift
[08:24] <Upu> morning PD3EM yes those are the resistors that control the shift
[08:24] <Upu> its a voltage divider
[08:24] <PD3EM> so indeed, just need 2 variables to make it
[08:24] <PD3EM> morning Upu thanks
[08:25] <Upu> you need 0.0005v of difference between "mark" and "space" per hz of shift
[08:25] <PD3EM> so i gonna look for a few on the ham radio flee market today ;-)
[08:25] <Colin-G8TMV> PD3EM: remember there are only volts on *one* of the resistors at a time
[08:25] <Upu> so for 425hz shift make the voltage about 0.2125 difference
[08:25] <Upu> 0.2125v
[08:25] <daveake> My circuit is slightly different as I use 1 o/p from the processor, but I used fixed resistors but one of them I swap around to get an accurate shift
[08:26] <Colin-G8TMV> PD3EM: id you see any British guys there wearing "Camb-Hams" shirts say hi!
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[08:26] <PD3EM> I will. are they around here? ;-)
[08:26] <Colin-G8TMV> They went over on the Ferry last night
[08:27] <PD3EM> the voltage explains all. got it now. 1 signal at a time quickly change voltage to transmmit on other freq
[08:27] <Colin-G8TMV> I know there are launches tomorrow - but is there also a launch today?
[08:29] <Colin-G8TMV> PD3EM: Exactly! it's FSK (Frequency Shift Keying)
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[08:29] <Colin-G8TMV> Morning Rick
[08:29] <LazyLeopard> Morning. Launch today? I've lost track...
[08:29] <PD3EM> thsnks all for this quick (and easy) help
[08:30] <daveake> I think all launches (3 possibly) are tomorrow
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[08:31] <jcoxon> no launches
[08:31] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Right. Last I'd heard there was a possible Wombat launch today, but it depended on how much building got done...
[08:31] <Upu> if i also helps PD3EM the NTX2 has an internal 100k resistor,so the 10k is a "bias" resistor
[08:31] Action: LazyLeopard can relax, then. ;)
[08:31] <Upu> as the input should be 0-3v not 0-5v the Arduino spurts out
[08:32] <jcoxon> oh wait
[08:32] <jcoxon> hold on
[08:32] <jcoxon> http://www.darc.de/distrikte/n/29/
[08:32] <PD3EM> Upu: I read that on the radiometrix website
[08:32] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:32] <PD3EM> Upu: but thatks for the tip!
[08:32] <PD3EM> thanks
[08:33] <jcoxon> regarding wombat Randomskk tweeted "grrr adf7012 pll, y u no lock?" at 0230
[08:33] <Upu> good evenings coding then :)
[08:33] <daveake> lol
[08:33] <jcoxon> thats quite early for him
[08:33] <daveake> :)
[08:34] <LazyLeopard> jcoxon: Ah. That doesn't sound promising. ;)
[08:34] <daveake> That's about the time I finished getting my tracker running with Upu's iddy biddy GPS board
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[08:35] <jcoxon> daveake, its a nice board
[08:35] <jcoxon> i linked on up a few days ago
[08:35] <jcoxon> one*
[08:35] <daveake> It is.
[08:36] <daveake> Not sure if you saw my build or not - http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=310
[08:36] <Upu> I love your "bug" builds
[08:36] <daveake> They are fun, if a little fiddly, to build
[08:37] <Upu> I have some RFM22B breakout boards coming next week
[08:37] <jcoxon> daveake, the signal on the waterfall is a bit odd
[08:37] <daveake> In what way?
[08:37] <Upu> 300 baud isn't it ?
[08:37] <daveake> Yep
[08:37] <daveake> The drift is the rfm warming up
[08:38] <daveake> The gaps are waiting for my main loop to deliver up the next sentence
[08:39] <jcoxon> the mark and space peaks look a bit harmoniciy
[08:39] <daveake> No aerial, if that makes any difference.
[08:39] <Colin-G8TMV> Has anyone looked at using a processor/board with a bit more horsepower than the Arduino?
[08:40] <Colin-G8TMV> I'm thinking of doing an mbed (ARM M3) based payload at some point
[08:40] <daveake> I'm not 100% sure but I think the mark/space changeover was done using the frequency offset register on that, but it could be your origibnal code jcoxon
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[08:40] <earthshine> Morning
[08:41] <Darkside> Colin-G8TMV: yes, other people have done cortex m3 payloads
[08:41] <daveake> Actually, reading the text, it was the offset register
[08:41] <Darkside> but for a telemetry payloads, you don't need more than an avr
[08:41] <Colin-G8TMV> Darkside: got any links to info?
[08:41] <Darkside> Colin-G8TMV: no
[08:41] <Darkside> most people don't release their payload designs
[08:41] <Colin-G8TMV> Darkside: ok, Ta anyway and my reason is that it would be good PR for my Employer who are... Guess <g>
[08:42] <Darkside> theres a general consensus that designing and building your own payload is the standard barrier to entry for high altitude ballooning
[08:42] <Darkside> Colin-G8TMV: hah
[08:42] <Darkside> speak to eroomde then
[08:42] <Colin-G8TMV> I have done
[08:45] <jcoxon> yeah mbed would be a good setup
[08:45] <Darkside> still, over kill for most telemetry payloads
[08:45] <Colin-G8TMV> Also been thinking about the LPC-H1114 which is a lot cheaper
[08:45] <Darkside> good for experimental stuff though
[08:46] <Colin-G8TMV> mbed has the advantage that it's easy to do software dev
[08:46] <Colin-G8TMV> no toolchain to install - it's all available online
[08:46] <Darkside> same with arduino absed stuff :P
[08:46] <Darkside> i dont call that a feature
[08:47] <Darkside> :P
[08:47] <Colin-G8TMV> I wouldn't usually either - but it's good for schools etc
[08:47] <Colin-G8TMV> Real software dev is done by reading the lamps (not leds) on the front panel and flicking the switches
[08:48] <Darkside> OMFG
[08:48] <Darkside> found the problem with my R10
[08:48] <Darkside> good lord
[08:48] <Darkside> ribbon cable connector broke off
[08:48] <earthshine> What time is todays launch?
[08:50] <LazyLeopard> tomorrow, apparently...
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[08:57] <golddragon24> There is a long duration balloon up in the US if you missed it: http://aprs.fi/?call=a%2FKB0MGQ-11
[08:57] <golddragon24> I'm excited cause it pretty much went over my house.
[09:00] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Heading for Canada.
[09:02] <LazyLeopard> Is the altitude accurate? It seems to be at only 3000 feet or so...
[09:02] <jcoxon> not reporting alt though
[09:02] <jcoxon> i saw it as -2900
[09:04] <golddragon24> I was wondering about that. I think so. It was 8000ft 5 hours ago, and the guy who helped track thought that was correct.
[09:04] <LazyLeopard> Some fixes do seem to report an altitude, while others don't.
[09:05] <golddragon24> What's the usual procedure with the FAA for flights like this? I can't imagine they would be too happy with a random balloon flying over airports at 3000 ft.
[09:06] <golddragon24> (he said to the crowd of europeans&)
[09:07] <LazyLeopard> No idea ;)
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[09:26] <PD3EM> is leaving for the hamradio flee market
[09:27] <navrac_> good morning everyone
[09:27] <Darkside> FFFFFF handheld scanner is broke
[09:27] <Darkside> ribbon connector connecting 2 pcbs broke off
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[09:27] <Darkside> i've resoldered it back on, but still having problems
[09:29] <fsphil> #ffffff handheld scanner? it's white?
[09:31] <Darkside> YESSSSS
[09:31] <Darkside> fixed it
[09:31] <Darkside> i think
[09:32] <Darkside> was a hairy bit of soldering
[09:32] <Darkside> 0.5mm pitch connector
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[09:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:08] <fsphil> anyone launching today. or are they all tomorrow?
[10:10] <_Hix> think there's one at 11 @churchill
[10:14] <Upu> thing they are all tomorrow Hix
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[10:20] <_Hix> jonsowman, is doing a Wombat launch, pretty sure
[10:26] <Upu> its tomorrow
[10:26] <Upu> think he changed it
[10:26] <Upu> I might be wrong
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[10:27] <_Hix> ah ok
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[10:29] <Upu> back soon testing new router
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[10:35] <rjmunro> Is there a launch today?
[10:37] <fsphil> not sure rjmunro, there was one scheduled for today but it might have been moved to tomorrow
[10:37] <Colin-G8TMV> We really need to put that in the topic
[10:37] <_Hix> we really need a calendar
[10:38] <rjmunro> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ is talking about astra 1
[10:38] <rjmunro> With data at 10:14:58.
[10:38] <fsphil> that's almost certainly a test
[10:38] <Colin-G8TMV> is that the American one of maybe the German one
[10:39] <Colin-G8TMV> There was suposedly a German launch this morning
[10:39] <LazyLeopard> Time for gardening
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[11:13] <Morseman> Morning all
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[11:14] <jonsowman> morning
[11:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "[UKHAS] Re: CUSF: Wombat Test Flight"
[11:17] <cuddykid> yay! arduino pro mini has arrived :D
[11:18] <cuddykid> I have all the components now for a pico tracker&. i think :P
[11:18] <cuddykid> it's tiny though :S
[11:23] <fsphil> isn't that the point? :)
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[11:25] <cuddykid> well& I suppose :P
[11:25] <fsphil> lol
[11:25] <cuddykid> this is going to really test my soldering :/
[11:26] <fsphil> I'm building a pico shortly, got most of the bits for it
[11:26] <cuddykid> trying to work out how to upload firmware onto it
[11:27] <cuddykid> ahh - I see now - the 6 holes at the end is for icsp?
[11:28] <fsphil> what board?
[11:28] <fsphil> ah, the mini
[11:30] <cuddykid> yep
[11:30] <cuddykid> hmm, I think my header pins might be too big
[11:32] <cuddykid> lol - I love how daveake has vanished - he knew I was coming
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[11:49] <cuddykid> iPads have been shipped :D
[11:50] <Dutch-Mill> Hi all is NAVRAC in the house, I'm looking for the RFM22 uplink code
[11:52] <cuddykid> pint navrac / navrac_ ^
[11:52] <cuddykid> *ping
[11:55] <Dutch-Mill> Nwrmnd I found something here : http://pastebin.com/QMEsLCGg
[11:55] <fsphil> he might prefer the pint :)
[11:57] <Upu> http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/images/products/08936-06-L.jpg
[11:57] <Upu> looks familiar
[11:59] <cuddykid> indeed fsphil haha
[12:00] <Randomskk> adf7012 >:|
[12:00] <Upu> Dutch-Mill I'll send it to you PM your mail address
[12:00] <Upu> I only have windows
[12:04] <fsphil> Upu, I think yours is better
[12:17] <Upu> thx :)
[12:17] <Upu> I don't think thats a ublox
[12:17] <Upu> but at least someone else is using the same antenna
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[12:41] <eroomde> yo
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[12:42] <Laurenceb_> hi eroomde
[12:42] <eroomde> anything up atm?
[12:42] <eroomde> am at the office
[12:42] <eroomde> just doing a new hedgehog
[12:43] Action: Laurenceb_ is failing at code
[12:43] <eroomde> think i might have found the cause of the short in hedgehog v0.1
[12:43] <Randomskk> oh?
[12:43] <eroomde> v0.1#1
[12:43] <eroomde> my atmgea chip was 90 degrees out of place
[12:43] <Randomskk> aah
[12:43] <Randomskk> pin one indicators man :P
[12:44] <eroomde> so the adjacent +v and gnd pairs were, one one side, shorted together where they should have been GND and AREF_GND
[12:44] <Randomskk> aha
[12:44] <Randomskk> surprised that only gave 1.5R
[12:44] <eroomde> yeah i just did it from memory. and memory was wrong
[12:44] <eroomde> i think 1.2 of that was my wires
[12:44] <Randomskk> heh
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[12:45] <eroomde> https://github.com/eroomde/Hedgehog-Flight-Computer/issues/3
[12:45] <eroomde> thanks
[12:45] <Randomskk> nice :P
[12:45] <eroomde> issues on github are sex
[12:46] <Randomskk> every time I search google for the adf7012 issues I keep finding my own flickr photos, cusf blog posts, etc
[12:46] <jonsowman> and you can close them with commit messages and stuff
[12:46] <Randomskk> this chip is apparently not exactly widely documented online
[12:46] <jonsowman> i actually fixed some predictor issues last night :P
[12:47] <eroomde> yes closing with commit messages is super nice
[12:47] <eroomde> once hedgehog is working I *will* do the python predictor
[12:47] <eroomde> i am in a much better place in my life now
[12:48] <eroomde> things are good, I can spend some time on hobbies
[12:48] <Randomskk> I worked out that if I only forego sleep I can spend loads of time on stuff like wombat
[12:48] <Randomskk> :|
[12:48] <eroomde> yeah
[12:48] <eroomde> there's a balance to cusf and uni life
[12:48] <eroomde> not sure how iain managed it really
[12:49] <eroomde> apart from just being stupendously smart, I suppose
[12:49] <Randomskk> :P I guess that would help
[12:49] <futurity> Morning, did I miss the launch yet?
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[12:49] <eroomde> futurity: tis tomorrow
[12:49] <eroomde> I might try and lash up the antenna
[12:49] <futurity> oh ok cool noon time?
[12:50] <futurity> I want to try and be around for tracking
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[12:50] <futurity> oh listed on the tracker
[12:50] <Morseman> Can anyone use one of these? http://www.flickr.com/photos/62825935@N00/6969228609/in/photostream I'm told it's a GPS unit but I have no more information and don't even know if it works still
[12:51] <nickle> I have a GPS question that someone might be able to help with. I've an Arduino linked up to a Ublox 6
[12:51] <nickle> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/grove-gps-p-959.html?cPath=144_145 is the device
[12:52] <nickle> Now I've a simple read the gps, put it out on the serial, and are using Ublox's u-center software to look at the results (same happens with a term)
[12:52] <cuddykid> when I get some free time I'll knock up a push notification system for these launches - I guess most people have iPhones or androids these days..
[12:52] <nickle> I get a large number of malformed GPS sentences
[12:52] <eroomde> nickle: pastebin an example
[12:53] <nickle> 12:35:53 $GPVTG,,T,,M,0.053,N,0.098,K,A*4$GA250,216,00.39,0141,,.M,E$PA,,,,,332010,,314150
[12:53] <eroomde> might be a baud rate timing issue
[12:53] <nickle> as an example.
[12:53] <eroomde> hrm
[12:53] <nickle> 9600 on both
[12:53] <eroomde> is that actually malformed?
[12:53] <nickle> $GPVTG,,T,,M,0.043,N,0.080,K,A*C$PA25.,2.6,,0.33,0,416,.,,B$PA,,,,633001,,,.,4180
[12:53] <nickle> another example.
[12:53] <nickle> Why should there be two $ in the sentence?
[12:54] <cuddykid> doesn't look too malformed
[12:54] <nickle> A little bit pregnant you mean! :-)
[12:55] <cuddykid> http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/#vtg
[12:56] <eroomde> indeed cuddykid
[12:56] <eroomde> nickle: try walking in a straight line with it
[12:56] <nickle> Tied to the computer.
[12:56] <eroomde> then loot at the GPVTG sentence again
[12:57] <nickle> OK. Track made good in the case of GPVTG
[12:57] <eroomde> basically that particular sentance is about ground speed and heading
[12:57] <Randomskk> does u-center interpret it correctly?
[12:57] <Randomskk> like, does it show satellites, a GPS position, the time, etc?
[12:57] <eroomde> so all the empy fields are for things like speed and bearing
[12:58] <LazyLeopard> nickle: A good number of $$$$s at the start make it easier for the tracker, but those $s look like mis-read data...
[12:58] <nickle> That's what I thought.
[12:58] <nickle> Quite a few sentences look good.
[12:59] <nickle> ie. $GP .... ,A*hh
[12:59] <nickle> ie, $ at the start, then sentence type, finally a check sum at the end.
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[12:59] <nickle> Quite a few however seem to miss the carriage return / line feed
[13:00] <eroomde> is the ublox connector to one arduino uart, and the arduino just passes through to the pc on another uart?
[13:00] <eroomde> or is the just same single uart?
[13:02] <nickle> If you look at the seeed site, its a software serial on pins 2,3, with the arduino uart for printing the strings. ie. Just acting as a forwarding device.
[13:02] <eroomde> ok
[13:02] <nickle> http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/Grove_-_GPS has a section for the code
[13:02] <nickle> One change, the NewSoftSerial library isn't used, because I've the latest version of the arduino code.
[13:03] <Morseman> Amazing waht you can do with Google I think I've found a spec sheet for that little unit http://elbase.ru/files/doc/9289231.pdf
[13:03] <eroomde> as it's software serial, it *might* be that the arduino can't cope with the receive interrupts from the gps fast enough, wehn it is also trying to send stuff over its hardware uart to the pc
[13:03] <eroomde> to test this, i would take the arduino out of the loop by connecting the gps directly the the pc and seeing if that improves things
[13:03] <nickle> So it uses SoftwareSerial http://arduiniana.org/libraries/newsoftserial/
[13:04] <nickle> Bit more tricky taking the arduino out of the loop
[13:04] <Morseman> Looks like it's a bluetooth 'thing' LOL
[13:04] <eroomde> indeed
[13:04] <eroomde> unfortunately my pcb oven controller is beeping to say it's done
[13:04] <nickle> So eroomde's point. That had occurred to me, but I'm running at 9600 baud
[13:04] <eroomde> so i must get back to nerding
[13:04] <eroomde> good luck nickle
[13:04] <nickle> ok - ta
[13:04] <eroomde> 9600 is still very fast for a software serial to receive
[13:05] <eroomde> you usually have to sample a serial line at about 4 times the baud rate
[13:05] <eroomde> so that's like 40k interrupts/sec
[13:05] <eroomde> which is non trivial for a poor wee 8bitter
[13:05] <eroomde> if it's trying to do otherthings at the same time anyway
[13:06] <eroomde> right, bbl
[13:10] <Morseman> If no one wants it I'll bin it
[13:11] <nickle> OK. So does that mean for building a payload, you need to move to an arduino mega because it has hardware uarts?
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[13:18] <x-f> you may try polling the ublox instead of just reading all the NMEA sentences
[13:19] <x-f> also - you can have GPS on hardware UART and use other serial devices with SoftwareSerial
[13:23] <Laurenceb_> Morseman: you in the UK?
[13:23] <Laurenceb_> is it 3.3v?
[13:24] <Morseman> Yes I'm in the UK
[13:24] Action: Laurenceb_ read datasheet
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[13:25] <Morseman> Laurenceb Spec says VDD1 = 1.8V VDD2 = 2.8 to 3.4V and VDD3 = 1.7 to 3.4V specs at http://elbase.ru/files/doc/9289231.pdf
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> ooh sweer
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> *sweet
[13:26] <Laurenceb_> ill have it - bluetooth that runs on 2.8v is hard to find
[13:26] <Laurenceb_> especially thats not BGA
[13:26] <Morseman> email me your address and I'll post it to yo - my address dave at g0dja dot co dot uk
[13:26] <Laurenceb_> ok, thanks
[13:26] <Laurenceb_> im trying to make a 2.8v device with bluetooth atm
[13:27] <Morseman> I've no idea if it works or not but please let me know how you get on
[13:27] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: CUSF: Wombat Test Flight"
[13:28] <Laurenceb_> 17dBm, nice
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[13:30] <Laurenceb_> whats the part no?
[13:30] <cuddykid> can I power uBlox off an arduino pro mini pin?
[13:31] <_Hix> if its 3.3 version
[13:32] <cuddykid> good stuff
[13:34] <jonsowman> cuddykid: check current capability
[13:34] <jonsowman> i think the AVR ports can only source around 25mA per port
[13:34] <jonsowman> which isn't enough for the GPS
[13:37] <cuddykid> hmm - that was my concern
[13:37] <cuddykid> it looks like daveake has it hooked up to pin 2
[13:37] <cuddykid> http://www.daveakerman.com/?attachment_id=312
[13:37] <Randomskk> haha cute
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> hmm not sure if this mode is class 1 or 2
[13:38] <Randomskk> it'l probably work
[13:38] <Randomskk> things often do
[13:38] <Randomskk> except this sodding radio
[13:38] <Randomskk> radio things magically don't
[13:38] <Randomskk> cry
[13:38] <jonsowman> Randomskk: haha
[13:38] <cuddykid> 40mA per pin
[13:38] <jonsowman> cuddykid: that might /just/ be enough
[13:38] <cuddykid> is 40mA enough?
[13:38] <Randomskk> probs
[13:38] <cuddykid> I'll roll with it :P
[13:38] <jonsowman> as Randomskk said, it might work
[13:38] <jonsowman> but if it doesn't suspect that first
[13:38] <cuddykid> yep
[13:39] <Morseman> Laurenceb No more detail than whats on the photo and that spec sheet I found a few moments ago I'm sorry to say
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> oh its the class 1
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> 3.3v
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> sorry im not interested
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> ill get some 2.8v ones from farnell - iirc theres one of two
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[13:41] <Morseman> Laurenceb from the dimentions it looks like the Platform Class 1 version
[13:42] <Morseman> Laurenceb OK no problem
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> class1
[13:45] <navrac_> typical - went to b&q with the wife to replace the payload 'string' she threw away - and end up coming back with two cans of paint and told i have to paint the hallway before I can launch tommorrow
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[13:46] <eroomde> so, Randomskk that wasn't the cause of the short
[13:46] <eroomde> but the short is still there if one populates just the top side
[13:47] <eroomde> i think still it might be something to do with the atmega
[13:47] <eroomde> but, i don't know yet
[13:47] <eroomde> just above to remove the gps
[13:47] <Morseman> navrac_ never tak your SO to B&Q it often ends in more work
[13:48] <Morseman> *take
[13:49] <eroomde> i need a 2nd monitor so help me god
[13:50] <Randomskk> eroomde: :|
[13:51] <Randomskk> all your eagle parts tested / any chance of pins being swapped or something equally sad?
[13:51] <Morseman> Laurenceb Do you think it would be of any use to anyone or shall I just bin it?
[13:52] <eroomde> Randomskk: just checking that now
[13:52] <Randomskk> I once got a pair of vdd/vss transposed on an stm32
[13:52] <eroomde> making sure the eagle atmega1284 footprint is correct
[13:52] <Randomskk> the analogue ones
[13:52] <Randomskk> the digital ones were all fine
[13:52] <eroomde> my hunch does involved the analogue bits yep
[13:53] <eroomde> but, will just go through it systematically
[13:53] <Randomskk> however it totally screwed it over
[13:53] <Randomskk> I found out by running a bit of power through and seeing where the chip warmed out >_>
[13:53] <Randomskk> up*
[13:53] <eroomde> eeek
[13:53] <Randomskk> it was a 100 pin tqfp
[13:53] <Randomskk> fun times
[13:53] <eroomde> mmm
[13:53] <Randomskk> lqfp or something actually, the very fine pitch one
[13:54] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: where did you get the pcbs?
[13:54] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/3226059874/in/set-72157607851550306
[13:54] <Randomskk> check it out :3
[13:55] <Randomskk> happily the pins next to both of them were at the correct voltage so all I had to do on the second attempt was bend the AVDD/AVSS pins up, reflow the part, then push them a bit sideways and solder them on
[13:55] <eroomde> hrm might have found it
[13:56] <Laurenceb_> ive had loads of faults on recent pcbtrain boards
[13:56] <Laurenceb_> shorts to gnd plane
[13:56] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: Wombat looks toasted :S
[13:56] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: ?
[13:57] <Laurenceb_> use some IPA
[13:57] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/6808384002/in/photostream
[13:57] <Randomskk> oh haha
[13:57] <Morseman> Randomskk and it still worked after the short cct!
[13:57] <Laurenceb_> looks a bit overheated
[13:57] <Randomskk> it's been under the hot air gun a fair bit >_>
[13:57] <eroomde> i swear by IPA
[13:57] <Randomskk> also the first reflow was pretty hot.
[13:57] <Randomskk> really need to get a controller
[13:57] <eroomde> it's the most abundant liquid round here as we use it in biprop engines too
[13:57] <Randomskk> Morseman: no, the first one or two or maybe three assemblies of the board were writeoffs
[13:57] <eroomde> we use it for ultrasonic cleaning and the results are amazing
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> i use a BK6000 at 220C
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> with lead free reflows
[13:58] <eroomde> ok, i have connected AREF to VCC but AVCC to GND
[13:58] <eroomde> D'oh!!!
[13:58] <eroomde> that looks like a moment of retardation in the schematic editor
[13:58] <Randomskk> D:
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> yeah thatd screw an avr
[13:59] <Morseman> Randomskk Ah... It seemed a bit too good to be true if all you had to do was resolder the original chip
[13:59] <Randomskk> Morseman: haha yea
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[14:00] <Laurenceb_> "days of hacking on this damn thing and I finally get an LED to light sadly that's the HardFault handler's LED but still!!!"
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> hahaha
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> welcome to stm32
[14:01] <Randomskk> seriously
[14:01] <Laurenceb_> is the pll working now Randomskk?
[14:01] <Randomskk> happily the software's all loading fine
[14:01] <Randomskk> no
[14:01] <Randomskk> well
[14:01] <Randomskk> it was
[14:01] <Randomskk> I had the whole thing transmitting sentences read from the GPS on 433MHz
[14:01] <Randomskk> but the PLL was only locking at 410MHz to 433.5MHz
[14:02] <Randomskk> and at 433.5MHz being taped to the window got it cold enough that it would lose lock
[14:02] <Randomskk> (though it worked perfectly when locked)
[14:02] <Laurenceb_> wtf is spudalert?
[14:02] <Randomskk> so I redesigned the loop filter using their design software
[14:02] <Laurenceb_> looks mental
[14:02] <Randomskk> and now it doesn't lock anywhere
[14:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm :S
[14:02] <Randomskk> the hardfault issue with the stm32 was because I told the linker about 192K RAM
[14:02] <Randomskk> so it tried to load 0x20000000 + 192K into the stack pointer
[14:02] <Randomskk> but actually 16K of that RAM is at 0x10000000 so isn't where the stack pointer was trying to load
[14:03] <Laurenceb_> i see
[14:03] <Randomskk> so it hardfaulted
[14:03] <Randomskk> 64K*
[14:03] <Randomskk> changed the linker to 128K
[14:03] <Randomskk> and now it works fine
[14:03] <Laurenceb_> i see
[14:03] <Laurenceb_> whats spudalert?
[14:03] <Randomskk> the memory is 112K + 16K + 64K, the first two continuous, the second at 0x1...
[14:03] <Randomskk> spurtalert
[14:03] <Randomskk> spurt
[14:03] <Laurenceb_> oh yeah
[14:03] Action: Laurenceb_ fails at reading
[14:03] <Randomskk> it's a digital barometer, an arduino, a serial LCD, plus a piece of glass barometer that I got from secret santa recently
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> oooh
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> ....why
[14:04] <Randomskk> the glass baro just has water+fabric softener, the fluid height indicates pressure
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> i see
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> how does it sense the level?
[14:04] <Randomskk> however it's amusing and japanese so the instruction manual was like "beware in case of heavy storm fluid may spurt"
[14:04] <Randomskk> it doesn't sense the level, it just senses if fluid has spurted out the top
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> ah
[14:04] <Randomskk> the pressure reading is done by a bmp085 in reality
[14:04] <Randomskk> oh also an RGB LED to light up the barometer depending on current pressure
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> thats not weird at all then
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> :P
[14:05] <Randomskk> it tracks the pressure to indicate direction in the last 24hrs
[14:05] <Randomskk> well it's not weird electrically at all
[14:05] <Randomskk> no
[14:05] <Randomskk> but it's a bit fun and roughly guesses the weather :P
[14:05] <Randomskk> anyway yea I have no clue about the ADF now
[14:05] <Randomskk> I cannot get it to lock at any frequency with the new loop filter
[14:05] <Randomskk> which makes no sense
[14:05] <Randomskk> it's not much different
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> how did you get the plywood cut?
[14:05] <Randomskk> http://randomskk.net/u/loop_filter_1_vs_2.png
[14:05] <Randomskk> open loop
[14:06] <Randomskk> plywood from razorlab / ponoko
[14:06] <Randomskk> designed in qcad, which turns out to be really nice for 2d design work
[14:06] <Laurenceb_> ok
[14:06] <Randomskk> (and runs on linux and is cheap/free)
[14:06] <Laurenceb_> i need some plastic cutting
[14:06] <Randomskk> yea they do plastic too :P
[14:06] <Laurenceb_> thinking of rigging a vinyl cutter
[14:06] <Randomskk> the transparent side of the new nixie clock case is transparent acrylic
[14:06] <Laurenceb_> i need pvc
[14:06] <Randomskk> ah
[14:06] <Randomskk> can't laser it then
[14:07] <Laurenceb_> re loop compensation, on cc1020 i recalibrated the pll each time the pll was retuned
[14:07] <Randomskk> recalibrated?
[14:07] <Laurenceb_> loop compensation stuff
[14:07] <Laurenceb_> i copied from a Ti app note
[14:07] <Randomskk> hm
[14:07] <Randomskk> this one has a range of config bits which are barely/not explained
[14:08] <Randomskk> like I can shift the vco's internal cap by a few pF, I can change the bias current in the vco and the loop filter (and the PA...)
[14:08] <Randomskk> there's not really any guidance on how
[14:08] <Randomskk> but atm I can't get it to lock anywhere
[14:08] <Randomskk> despite previously with the old loop filter having it lock in like 30MHz of frequency range
[14:08] <Randomskk> it's really annoying
[14:09] <Laurenceb_> isnt there a AD app note anywhere?
[14:09] <Randomskk> and you can see the PLL going all over the place, if I put my radio on monitor I get S9+40 over like 1MHz+ around where I'm trying to tune it
[14:09] <Morseman> Radomskk something like this? http://sciencekit.com/amazing-weather/p/IG0023336/
[14:10] <Randomskk> Morseman: same concept, mine looks like a frog:
[14:10] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/sets/72157628990137417/
[14:11] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: can't find anything besides its datasheet.
[14:11] <Randomskk> :|
[14:11] <Randomskk> also I can't find /any/ source code online from anyone actually using it
[14:11] <Randomskk> though I can find a few projects which did
[14:11] <Randomskk> including a couple who had it not work
[14:11] <Randomskk> http://rev0proto.com/wiki/index.php/ADF7012 is one of the most promising, they very recently soldered up the new board and appear to have it working at 2m
[14:11] <Laurenceb_> ive never used discreet pll hardware, sorry
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> isnt there a "pllsim.exe" package or something from AD?
[14:12] <Randomskk> I'm regretting trying
[14:12] <Randomskk> oh well there's ADsimSRD or something
[14:12] <Randomskk> which is how I designed the new loop filter
[14:12] <Randomskk> tell it crystal freq, tx freq, other bits and pieces, it tells you what values to use for the filter, plots some graphs
[14:12] <Randomskk> of things like PLL freq error against time
[14:12] <Randomskk> all of which imply it should be absolutely fine
[14:13] <Randomskk> does not say how to program it or give any other useful info
[14:13] <Randomskk> :/
[14:13] <Laurenceb_> maybe parasitic stuff?
[14:13] <Randomskk> but the current loop filter is exactly as speced
[14:13] <Randomskk> meh it could be
[14:13] <Morseman> Randomskk very pretty ;-)
[14:13] <Randomskk> hard to measure
[14:13] <Randomskk> Morseman: thanks :P
[14:14] <Randomskk> I could do with a network analyser I guess, but I don't even have any places to attach one
[14:14] <Laurenceb_> but i probably know less than you about this :S
[14:14] <Randomskk> basically it's an annoying pain and I wish I was using a chip with entirely integrated pll/vco stuff instead of having an external loop :P
[14:14] <Randomskk> I guess that's the price you pay for having a chip that can tune 75MHz-1GHz
[14:14] <Randomskk> all the freq sensitive shit goes external
[14:16] <Randomskk> meh it's such a pain to debug
[14:16] <Randomskk> my scope can't cope with most of it anyway and I can't even see what pulses are coming out of the PFD because they get integrated by the filter
[14:16] <Randomskk> sigh
[14:17] <cuddykid> Upu: how did you go about checking the GPS works etc? Curious whether there is some sort of quick way
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[14:40] <cuddykid> going to do a solar balloon test
[14:43] <Bob_G8NSV> am looking at solar balloon myself
[14:44] <Bob_G8NSV> anyone know what frequency the astra payload in Southampton is on?
[14:46] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: benoxley ^
[14:51] <Morseman> Bob_G8NSV Apparently the one in January was on 434.075MHz http://www.southgatearc.org/news/december2011/southampton_university_hab.htm
[14:51] <jonsowman> probably the same, i dont think Matt_soton changed the transmitter
[14:52] <Bob_G8NSV> Thanks
[14:52] <jonsowman> i'm sure someone will confirm soon
[14:52] <Bob_G8NSV> just connecting up ready for tom are they launching today or just testing?
[14:52] <jonsowman> haha
[14:52] <jonsowman> oops wrong window.
[14:53] <jonsowman> i think they were doing a tethered test today or something?
[14:53] <Morseman> I'll nip upstairs and check on the HABUK reflector to see if any info given on there
[14:56] <jonsowman> eroomde: around?
[14:59] <cuddykid> made the solar balloon! time to test!
[14:59] <cuddykid> when the sun comes back out :P
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[15:01] <Bob_G8NSV> only a small one then!!!
[15:01] <G0DJA> The only thing I can find (other than the ones already listed on spacenear.us/tracker is going to be on 434.200 with uplinks on other freqs (not sure what that's about though) by navrac
[15:01] <jcoxon> afternoon
[15:01] <Bob_G8NSV> no launches today though?#
[15:02] <cuddykid> just 2 bin bags on this one
[15:02] <Bob_G8NSV> how long to make?
[15:02] <cuddykid> 10mins max
[15:03] <cuddykid> it's clouded over here :( was sunny about 20mins ago
[15:04] <Bob_G8NSV> thought so I might nick a coulple out the kitchen and make one myself for a laugh. Am lookint at building a proper one tho, up to 4M diameter lift over as kilo
[15:04] <G0DJA> Bob_G8NSV none that have been announced - one was planned but moved it to Sunday
[15:04] <jcoxon> i've added the freqs to spacenear.us
[15:04] <Bob_G8NSV> thanks, have got asll connected up and ready if any signals come my way
[15:04] <G0DJA> Thanks jcoxon that'll be a help tomorrow!
[15:05] <jcoxon> cuddykid, you launching a solar balloon?
[15:05] <G0DJA> Anyone know what the uplinks on OZZIE will be used for?
[15:06] <jcoxon> G0DJA, its to test the concept
[15:06] <jcoxon> so its a sort of repeater
[15:06] <G0DJA> OK - what will they upload?
[15:06] <jcoxon> 15chars of text
[15:06] <G0DJA> AH
[15:06] <jcoxon> but its a pico flight
[15:06] <jcoxon> so max altitude will be about 5km
[15:06] <jcoxon> maybe less
[15:06] <G0DJA> Like a flying RTTY text messager?
[15:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:07] <G0DJA> 5k may not get above my radio horizon to the south at that distance
[15:07] <Bob_G8NSV> just nicked 2 bin bags and building one now!
[15:08] <G0DJA> Bob_G8NSV I guess you'll need steady hands to tape the two together without gaps
[15:09] <Bob_G8NSV> yes, should be fun! will be welding the seams on the big ones with a hot air gun
[15:09] <benoxley> Bob_G8NSV: I'm pretty sure it's still .075
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[15:09] <Bob_G8NSV> off to stick it together in the kitchen now!!
[15:09] <G0DJA> Kate already thinks I'm strange in the head. If I started taping bin bags together to make a balloon the men in white coats might well be knocking on the front door a bit later
[15:10] <Bob_G8NSV> back in a mo with one i made earlier!!!
[15:10] <G0DJA> I may have to build one when she's at work ;-)
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[15:13] <G0DJA> Once you've filled it with air, roughly how long does it take to start to lift? (I realise quicker on a hot day but "average" for UK this sort of time of year)
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[15:14] <jcoxon> G0DJA, well thats what is interesting
[15:14] <jcoxon> cold days are good
[15:14] <jcoxon> its all to do with difference in temperatures
[15:14] <G0DJA> Less pressure?
[15:14] <jcoxon> so if the sun is out it'll heat the bin bag
[15:14] <jcoxon> and the air inside will be hotter then outside
[15:14] <G0DJA> Atmospheric I meant
[15:14] <jcoxon> hence lift
[15:15] <jcoxon> so if you start off cold
[15:15] <jcoxon> but sun is out
[15:15] <jcoxon> you can get a better differential
[15:15] <G0DJA> A mat black would be better than a shiny one as well then?
[15:15] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:16] <G0DJA> Hummmm...
[15:16] <eroomde> hmm, i have made the short go away
[15:16] <eroomde> just about
[15:17] <G0DJA> Are there any regs (other than littering) about flying solar balloons?
[15:18] <jcoxon> if its below 2m in any direction then it reg exempt
[15:18] <cuddykid> jcoxon: trying to - but it's not rising - I don't think the sun is strong enough :(
[15:18] <jcoxon> that includes the payload etc
[15:18] <jcoxon> cuddykid, try mornig - sunny day
[15:18] <jcoxon> G0DJA, but to tell teh truth i'm not really sure
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[15:19] <cuddykid> G0DJA: a lot of people do
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[15:19] <cuddykid> jcoxon: yeah, I think that's the best bet
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[15:19] <G0DJA> So, as long as no taller than an 'average' person would be OK?
[15:20] <cuddykid> yep
[15:20] <cuddykid> mines out of 2 bin liners
[15:20] <G0DJA> I was wondering if I could find some reason why I had to be measuring the length of a bin liner...
[15:21] <cuddykid> lol
[15:21] <G0DJA> Those men in white cotas problem again...
[15:21] <cuddykid> does the hole at the bottom have to be open for lift off?
[15:21] <cuddykid> sounds like some space shuttle - it really is the most unexciting launch ever :P
[15:21] <G0DJA> I was thinking of tying it off at the bottome when almost full of air
[15:22] <jonsowman> anyone around who isn't in a UTC timezone?
[15:22] <x-f> jonsowman, i am
[15:22] <jonsowman> x-f: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=fe42cbeefca5b783f52aa6fb348c500c1b99d040
[15:22] <jonsowman> if you hover over the red launch dot
[15:22] <jonsowman> what time does it say?
[15:22] <x-f> 13:04UTC
[15:23] <jonsowman> heh, still broken then
[15:23] <jonsowman> ok, thanks
[15:23] <x-f> i was just about to ask you that question :)
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[15:23] <jonsowman> it is correctly using the time you enter
[15:23] <jonsowman> so the prediction is correct
[15:23] <jonsowman> it just writes the wrong time to the hover info
[15:23] <x-f> ah, good to know, thanks
[15:24] <Bob_G8NSV> the mrs has just helped me buid one. off to launch!!
[15:24] <x-f> jonsowman, i've set up a local copy of predictor, on hover it shows the correct launch time (UTC)
[15:24] <G0DJA> Bob_G8NSV anyone else there to take a video?
[15:25] <jonsowman> x-f: weird...
[15:26] <jonsowman> it's really annoying that i'm trying to fix this from a UTC timezone
[15:26] <jonsowman> it makes it really hard to replicate the bug
[15:26] <jonsowman> lol
[15:27] <x-f> jonsowman, any ideas why running a prediction on habhub and on my local computer with the same input data give slightly different flight paths, like 5-15 km difference?
[15:27] <daveake_> jonsowman Can't you just change the timezone in your O/S?
[15:27] <jonsowman> x-f: no that's totally weird
[15:27] <jonsowman> daveake_: yeah, will do
[15:28] <cuddykid> it's refusing to work
[15:28] <jonsowman> x-f: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=fe42cbeefca5b783f52aa6fb348c500c1b99d040
[15:28] <jonsowman> could you just test again quickly please
[15:29] <Randomskk> jonsowman: there may be a browser plugin to change the tz js reports
[15:29] <jonsowman> changed my OS timezone and it's still apparently working
[15:29] <jonsowman> Randomskk: os thinks it's 17.30
[15:29] <jonsowman> and it appears to still be working
[15:29] <x-f> jonsowman, it is ok now
[15:29] <Randomskk> hm
[15:29] <jonsowman> x-f: great, thanks
[15:29] <jonsowman> fixed :D
[15:29] Action: jonsowman gets his 2 hours back
[15:29] <x-f> cheers
[15:30] <x-f> yup, getting dark here
[15:30] <jonsowman> x-f: i've fixed that and another bug this afternoon
[15:30] <jonsowman> so pull in changes if you cloned before today
[15:30] <x-f> ok, thanks
[15:31] <Bob_G8NSV> not enough heat in sun now,bu**er!!!
[15:32] <cuddykid> same problem here Bob_G8NSV
[15:32] <cuddykid> :(
[15:33] <Bob_G8NSV> the bottom is usually left open but made smaller, I taped the "wings" on the bottom bag together
[15:33] <Upu> hi cuddykid I just plug it into 3v USB to serial adaptor via some test clips
[15:33] <Bob_G8NSV> tried filling it with a hair dryer but no joy
[15:33] <cuddykid> ahh I see Upu :) thanks
[15:34] <G0DJA> Gone cloudy here now as well
[15:34] <cuddykid> that's annoying :(
[15:34] <Bob_G8NSV> suns out here but wont heat air enough
[15:34] <cuddykid> sunny here but even with a black background there is not enough heat
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[15:35] <jcoxon> save it for a sunny morning
[15:35] <Bob_G8NSV> am working on designs for some good size ones that can carry useful payloads 4M will carry a kilo no prob
[15:37] <G0DJA> Off to the shop to get something for diner
[15:37] <Bob_G8NSV> some great info on web but most in french, spent ages translating a spreadsheet for making the templates to cut the panels of the balloons
[15:38] <Bob_G8NSV> the trick is to weld the plastic using a hot air gun. No extra weight of tape and as strong as original sheeting
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[15:39] <Bob_G8NSV> they can go to over 20Km but will stay up till sunset. If you catch high altitude winds they will go for hundreds of kilometers
[15:40] <Laurenceb_> hot air gun?
[15:40] <Laurenceb_> doesn tit shrink on heating?
[15:40] Action: Upu sniggers
[15:40] <daveake_> :D
[15:41] <Laurenceb_> *it
[15:41] <fsphil-laptop> you boys at the back, pay attention
[15:41] <Bob_G8NSV> you leave a few cms of both sheets stuck out from between 2 bits of wood. This acts as a shield for the balloon envelope, you then run the gun down the seam
[15:42] <Bob_G8NSV> this melts the 2 sections together, you then work along a bit at a time till you have welded the seam
[15:42] <cuddykid> lol fsphil-laptop
[15:42] <Bob_G8NSV> ha ha!
[15:42] <cuddykid> Bob_G8NSV: if you do manage to get a great design made - send one over and I'll stick a tracker on and we can see :D
[15:43] <cuddykid> I'm really interested to see how high they can go etc
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> this is polythene?
[15:43] <cuddykid> bin bags
[15:43] <cuddykid> with hole in the bottom
[15:43] <Bob_G8NSV> Until I translated the french i couldnt make sense of the photos. good old google!!!
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[15:43] <cuddykid> apparently people think they can go over 60k feet
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> balloonsolaire.wanadoo or whatever?>
[15:43] <Bob_G8NSV> Big balloons need sheet on a roll
[15:44] Action: cuddykid remembers the days of wanadoo
[15:44] <Bob_G8NSV> balloon solair thats the one
[15:44] <Laurenceb_> ah its no longer on wanadoo
[15:44] <Laurenceb_> http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/en-index.htm
[15:44] <Bob_G8NSV> http://ballonsolaire.free.fr/ballon.htm
[15:44] <Bob_G8NSV> beat me to it!!
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> oh so they do let it shrink up
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> but its bonds at the same time, interesting
[15:45] <x-f> Bob_G8NSV, http://www.alistairdickie.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=27 - there's an Excel file "tetraoon.xls" which might help
[15:46] <Bob_G8NSV> The design I'm working on has a transparent outer and a black inner tube which heats up. the transparent outer helps stop losses through radiation from the envelope
[15:46] <Bob_G8NSV> makes it a tad heavier but it's meant to be a worthwhile gain
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/utilisation14m.htm
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> so epic
[15:47] <Bob_G8NSV> yes it shrinks back towards the wood but gives a good weld. I tried it the other day on a test bag. It stinks tho!!! dont do it indoors!!!
[15:48] <Bob_G8NSV> There are photos of a couple of people flying from one!!
[15:48] <Bob_G8NSV> One I believe is an aussie so that explains it!!
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/en-photos.htm
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> love the first photo
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[15:50] <Bob_G8NSV> there is a maximum height tho, its to do with less lift in thin air for the heat available so wont go as high as helium. But hot airs free!!
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/03-05-29-1.jpg
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> wonder if that works
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> yeah, have you seen the MIR balloons/
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/en-historique3.htm
[15:52] <x-f> diameter: 40 m :)
[15:52] <Bob_G8NSV> yes they can fly at night I think, some sort of special material that can soak up infra red from the ground
[15:52] <Bob_G8NSV> french agin
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> yeah, i was wondering if a mini one is possible
[15:53] <Bob_G8NSV> I suppose they did invent the hot air balloon! maybe thats why they are so good at them
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> some approximate figures indicated 4m diamter might fly
[15:54] <Bob_G8NSV> 4m will fly I have the spradsheet, it will lift nearly a kilo. I can send you the english translated spreadsheet if you want
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[15:55] <Bob_G8NSV> it gives the cutting chart to make it
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[15:58] <marcozambi> hi all
[15:59] <marcozambi> first time in this channel
[15:59] <marcozambi> I'm Marco from Italy
[15:59] <marcozambi> part of the Stratospera.com team
[15:59] <x-f> hi, Marco
[15:59] <marcozambi> we launch high altitude balloons from Tuscany, central Italy
[15:59] <eroomde> oh yeah tuscany
[16:00] <eroomde> bit of a dump
[16:00] <signaleleven> what kind of dump? :-)
[16:00] <Bob_G8NSV> hi marco
[16:00] <eroomde> that was a joke :)
[16:00] <eroomde> it's one of the most glorious places on earth
[16:00] <eroomde> i think
[16:00] <marcozambi> first time on this channel, I'm here with my friend signaleleven
[16:01] <marcozambi> lirking
[16:01] <marcozambi> *lurking
[16:02] <eroomde> well, welcome
[16:02] <eroomde> you've come to the right place :)
[16:03] <x-f> here's my (wrongly shaped) tetroon with a ~600 gram camera hanging below it - http://imgur.com/jbPbf
[16:03] <eroomde> nice
[16:03] <eroomde> where are you?
[16:03] <x-f> i'm from Latvia
[16:05] <marcozambi> thanks eroomode, I'm here to listen (ok, read) and learn
[16:05] <x-f> it was -12 degrees Celsius that day, so it flew really ok :)
[16:05] <eroomde> impressive x-f
[16:06] <x-f> thanks
[16:06] <cuddykid> soldered my first bit onto the pro mini :D
[16:06] <Bob_G8NSV> a lot of potential, I dont know what the realistix max altitude is. Any ideas?
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[16:07] <cuddykid> found out that the solder I was using (from maplin) was far too thick
[16:07] <jonsowman> eroomde: https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor/issues/55
[16:07] <jonsowman> is that something you're like to do?
[16:07] <marcozambi> you can see some of our photos here... http://www.stratospera.com
[16:07] <marcozambi> Next launch 26th may
[16:07] <eroomde> jonsowman: erm, i doubt it
[16:07] <eroomde> on a matter of principle
[16:07] <jonsowman> eroomde: ok, it's going then
[16:07] <eroomde> fine
[16:08] <jonsowman> :)
[16:09] <Bob_G8NSV> does anyone know if you can set any of the flight predictors for balloons that dont burst but reach a certain height and float (like solar)
[16:10] <eroomde> it's on the list of features for the next rev of the predictor
[16:11] <eroomde> in the mean time you can bogify
[16:11] <Bob_G8NSV> thanks eroomde
[16:11] <Bob_G8NSV> ?
[16:11] <eroomde> do one run to see what time and place it gets to float alt
[16:12] <jonsowman> Bob_G8NSV: https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor/issues/53
[16:12] <eroomde> then do another prediction with the starting alt as the float alt, the burst alt as the float alt+1, and the ascent rate as 0.000000000000001 or something
[16:12] <Bob_G8NSV> I see now, I wondered if there was a way to "frigg" it
[16:13] <Bob_G8NSV> I will have a play
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[16:21] <jcoxon> ping navrac
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[16:38] <cuddykid> errr - how do I program arduino pro mini using the USBtinyISP when the USB power is 5V?
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[16:40] <navrac_> hi jcoxon
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[16:42] <Randomskk> cuddykid: power it seperatly and remove the pwr jumper on usbtinyisp
[16:42] <cuddykid> Randomskk: can I just feed the USBtinyISP vcc to "raw" on pro mini
[16:42] <cuddykid> ?
[16:43] <jcoxon> navrac_, i think i've got my uplink working
[16:43] <navrac_> Sorry - been afk doing painting the hall duties in order to be able to allow to 'play with my balloon' tommorrow
[16:43] <navrac_> go on
[16:43] <jcoxon> what was the format for uplink again
[16:43] <jcoxon> so i can test
[16:43] <jcoxon> i've got a serial link open
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[16:44] <navrac_> realistically it is only <BYTE> which is the channel number 3-8 and then a string of chars followed by a *
[16:45] <Randomskk> cuddykid i would not it should sense target voltage
[16:45] <navrac_> if you send a 0x2 as the channel it should reply with 'Naughty' then 'sent' and transmit on all channels in turn
[16:45] <eroomde> I've tied VCC_RF to GND on the max 6
[16:45] <eroomde> chriist what was i smoking when i did this
[16:46] <eroomde> i really really hope that's the last of the 2nd and final short
[16:46] <Randomskk> eroomde <:/
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[16:47] <eroomde> it's annoying...
[16:47] <eroomde> looks like I might be doing a 2nd spin of the board sooner than imagined
[16:48] <NigeyS> problems Ed?
[16:48] <eroomde> https://github.com/eroomde/Hedgehog-Flight-Computer/issues
[16:48] <eroomde> yes ^
[16:48] <eroomde> anything with 'bug'
[16:48] <eroomde> though the ntx2 one is not really a biggie, more a nice-to-have
[16:49] <navrac_> to be honest jcoxon it worked for me by trial and error as any form of C is not a natural language for me
[16:49] <NigeyS> eek, what happened with avcc ?
[16:49] <eroomde> bbiab, gonna expunge the offending trace
[16:49] <eroomde> NigeyS: i tied it to gnd
[16:49] <eroomde> i have no idea why, retarded
[16:49] <NigeyS> woops lol
[16:49] <eroomde> so that needs to be connected up to vcc with a bodge wire now
[16:50] <NigeyS> we had a bodge wire on the rev1 of swift, gps rx/tx wrong way round :|
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[16:51] <Laurenceb_> oohi didnt know github had that feature
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[16:51] <Laurenceb_> i like issue tracking a lot
[16:51] <NigeyS> first time ive seen it to
[16:51] <NigeyS> oh laurenceb..
[16:51] <NigeyS> might interest you..
[16:51] <NigeyS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-vBbqamNBU
[16:51] <number10> is that because you lot dont have bugs?
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> seen it before
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> it was on raspberry pi site
[16:52] <navrac_> too many bugs - not enough time to document them all
[16:52] <NigeyS> pretty impressive
[16:52] <jcoxon> navrac_, okay getting the hang of it
[16:52] <NigeyS> lol navrac
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[16:53] <Randomskk> hmm. my radio just killed my motherboard's sound card.
[16:53] <Randomskk> :|
[16:53] <Randomskk> today has gone well
[16:53] <NigeyS> :o wth
[16:53] <Randomskk> yea I plugged my icom into my line in while the icom was off and suddenly my sound stopped
[16:54] <Randomskk> and won't start again. in linux or windows. after rebooting and resetting all the sound config options
[16:54] <Randomskk> all I can get is a pop when I mute/unmute it
[16:54] <NigeyS> hmm, that is weird
[16:54] <NigeyS> onboard sound i guess?
[16:55] <Randomskk> yea
[16:55] <Randomskk> no more apparently
[16:55] Action: Randomskk shops for pcie sound cards
[16:55] <NigeyS> ach that sucks
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> my acer laptop cant do rtty anyway
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> i had to use usb sound card
[16:56] <Randomskk> well right now I'm more sad about not having any output sound
[16:56] <NigeyS> ive got an xfi xtreme gamer here spare if you have a pci slot free ?
[16:56] <Randomskk> but yes it would make testing my payload very very difficult
[16:56] <jcoxon> navrac_, what time are you launching?
[16:56] <Randomskk> except that of course the PLL still isn't locking on wombat
[16:56] <Randomskk> so it's not like I'm testing that anyway
[16:56] <Laurenceb_> too much clk jitter on some cheap inbuilt sound cards
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[16:56] <navrac_> I limited it to 21 chars I think jcoxon and my widows prog formats it as chars for call sigh+:+ message counter+:+12 char message - and allows only alphasnumerics so any $,*'s etc dont upset the parsing
[16:56] <Randomskk> NigeyS: thanks but nope, my only pci slot is taken :/ gonna have to be pci e 1x
[16:56] <navrac_> 6 chars for callsign
[16:56] <NigeyS> bah same here, my gfx card covers to much of the pci slot so had to use onboard :(
[16:57] <Laurenceb_> id check voltages on the icom first
[16:57] <Randomskk> it was fine yesterday
[16:57] <Randomskk> I suspect it was in part due to it being off perhaps
[16:57] <Randomskk> or something else sad
[16:57] <NigeyS> sodding gremlins!
[16:58] <Colin-G8TMV> Is the Hedgehog-Flight-Computer the same as "Wombat"?
[16:58] <Randomskk> nope
[16:58] <Randomskk> hedgehog is eroomde's current project
[16:58] <Randomskk> it's an NTX2 with a DAC to set the tone, AVR microcontroller, ublox 6 MAX6
[16:59] <Randomskk> wombat's an STM32F4 ARM, an ADF7012 radio (which is causing me no end of grief) that can be programmed to any freq in 70cm (in theory) and a ublox 6 neo6
[16:59] <G0DJA> Randomskk I *do* keep warning people about using isolated sound connections, but the wont listen...
[17:00] <Randomskk> G0DJA: a lesson I have apparently now learnt the hard way
[17:00] <Colin-G8TMV> Ah, Wombat sounds interesing is the STM32F4 ARM an M0 or an M3?
[17:00] <Randomskk> any suggestions on accomplishing the isolation in a useful fashion though? might as well pick something up
[17:00] <G0DJA> Unfortunatel :-(
[17:00] <Randomskk> Colin-G8TMV: M4F
[17:00] <Randomskk> which is a lot like the M3
[17:00] <Randomskk> but also has DSP and FPU
[17:00] <Colin-G8TMV> Ah, is that the STM own arch clone?
[17:00] <G0DJA> Unfortunately - even
[17:00] <Randomskk> I couldn't say
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> the core is ARM
[17:01] <Laurenceb_> everything on the AMBA busses in ST
[17:01] <Laurenceb_> *is
[17:01] Action: Colin-G8TMV nods
[17:01] <G0DJA> I've even dug out an old one to use on a second PC if/when I get Linrad and MAP65 running...
[17:02] <Laurenceb_> i used to work somewhere with an arm license
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> it was a nightmare to work with
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> bazillion half broken windows gui things to configure the busses and stuff
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[17:06] <griffonbot> Received email: Priyesh Patel "[UKHAS] Apex III Launch 2 Notification"
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[17:07] <Randomskk> oh good. I don't actually have any spare PCI or PCIe slots
[17:07] <Randomskk> stupid micro ATX motherboard
[17:07] <Morseman> Randomskk make or buy?
[17:08] <Randomskk> ?
[17:10] <eroomde> got it
[17:10] <eroomde> it was the gps
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[17:10] <eroomde> so, VCC-RF and AVCC where the causes of the shorts
[17:10] <Randomskk> oops.
[17:10] <eroomde> correct
[17:11] <Randomskk> wish I knew what was wrong with wombat
[17:11] <Morseman> CVircuit diagrams for what was/is sold as an audio interface kit in the USA http://www.qsl.net/vu2upx/Projects/buildPSK.pdf
[17:13] <Morseman> If you don't need to transmot leave out the opto, COM connections and TX audio parts but I would put a variable on the output to the computer line in socket
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[17:14] <Morseman> Using the PC soundcard 'sliders' may be OK but I found a 'real' control better to set up and leave where it needed to be without other programs being able to mess with it!
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[17:14] <Morseman> I really must get a sull chucker!
[17:14] <Morseman> or even spull chucker - or a new keyboard!
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[17:40] <navrac_> Is it always like this the night before the launch? - cant find the gaffa tape, the lithiums which you put somewhere safe and you break everything you touch?
[17:40] <daveake_> yep
[17:41] <daveake_> For one of mine I just about managed to find enough fresh Lithiums. Found all the hidden ones a couple of days later.
[17:41] <navrac_> I was sort of hoping you were going to say it getts better....
[17:41] <daveake_> it gets better
[17:41] <navrac_> thanks
[17:42] <daveake_> np
[17:42] <navrac_> worst bit is i have to tidy my shack as I inadvertantly invited someone round
[17:42] <daveake_> I bought some wide low plastic trays with lids from Matalan, one for launch kit, one for chase kit
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[17:43] <navrac_> ~Im not going to chase this one - its welcome to fly away...
[17:43] <daveake_> :)
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[17:44] <navrac_> just hope the wind is in a good direction at ground level as there are some inviting HT lines nearby - and I understand they are magnets for balloons
[17:45] <daveake_> :)
[17:45] <daveake_> could be a very short flight then
[17:46] <daveake_> you wouldn't be the first to launch straight into a tree. One of mine missed a water tower by inches
[17:46] <NigeyS> i missed a power line by about 30ft once...
[17:46] <navrac_> I've got my fishing rod handy
[17:47] <daveake_> Nice conductive carbon fibre one?
[17:47] <navrac_> err....
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[17:49] <navrac_> its got a cork handle..
[17:57] <jcoxon> navrac, do i need to send the "*"
[17:57] <jcoxon> ?
[17:58] <navrac> yes you do - its the end of line terminator
[17:58] <navrac> when the tx arduino receives that it jump to the tx part of the code
[17:59] <jcoxon> bingo
[17:59] <jcoxon> it worked
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[17:59] <navrac> excellent
[17:59] <jcoxon> i can hear it
[17:59] <jcoxon> okay but i don't need to transmit it
[18:00] <navrac> really - bad programming on my part possibly
[18:01] <navrac> the * doesnt get passed to the payload - only the actual message does
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[18:01] <jcoxon> hehe i've made a few changes...
[18:02] <navrac> just dont send a ! as the first char of the message as it reboots the payload!
[18:03] <navrac> dont tell me - autorepeat etc
[18:03] <navrac> and higher tx power
[18:04] <cuddykid> ping daveake_ - at this point daveake_ signs off :P
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[18:10] <jcoxon> navrac, what OS do you use?
[18:11] <navrac> windows for my ins
[18:11] <jcoxon> okay
[18:11] <jcoxon> if things go well today
[18:11] <jcoxon> we could add a function to dl-fldigi
[18:11] <jcoxon> to run a script to send the upload when it rx's a string
[18:11] <jcoxon> i mean tomorrow*
[18:12] <navrac> that would be handy - its so annoying waiting for the string - spotting what channel its on then trying to go for the tx button before it starts sending the next tring
[18:13] <navrac> trouble is if i open the rx window and greater than 4 or 5 seconds, the drift on the rtty is really bad
[18:13] <jcoxon> what time is launch?
[18:13] <navrac> I'm going for 12:00
[18:13] <jcoxon> any chance it could be earlier?
[18:14] <navrac> what time were you thinking of
[18:14] <jcoxon> i've got lunch at 1330
[18:14] <jcoxon> don't really mind
[18:14] <navrac> i coukld try to pull it back as early as posible
[18:15] <jcoxon> well don't rush
[18:15] <navrac> i've allowed 2 hours for preflight test and filling - but since its a pico it doesnt really need that long ( I hope)
[18:15] <jcoxon> i'll up early
[18:16] <jcoxon> even 11:30 would be better for me
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[18:16] <jcoxon> it can get to some sort of height
[18:16] <navrac> Ok - will aim for 11:30 then
[18:16] <jcoxon> hooray
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:18] <navrac> what aerial are you sticking on the rfm?
[18:21] <priyesh> what frequency is the other launch on tomorrow?
[18:22] <priyesh> and where is it being launched from?
[18:22] <jcoxon> a scanner aerial
[18:22] <jcoxon> can tx on UHF
[18:22] <jcoxon> priyesh, pico launch from east suffolk
[18:22] <jcoxon> on 434.200Mhz
[18:22] <priyesh> thanks
[18:23] <priyesh> hoping to recover?
[18:23] <navrac> i hope to be using my homebrew 4 ele yagi - the one i just stood on while tidying up...
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[18:23] <navrac> hoping to loose it a long way away
[18:23] <priyesh> haha :P
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> dinnertime
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:24] <jcoxon> navrac, so if this works - how about balloon to balloon comms?
[18:25] <navrac> long range relaying - sound fun.
[18:25] <NigeyS> anyone launching tomorrow...
[18:25] <jcoxon> lots
[18:25] <priyesh> NigeyS: lots of us :P
[18:25] <NigeyS> arrival of another CMe, so you may get some dodgy gps readings
[18:26] <navrac> the whole thing is so light you can put one in the neck of the balloon to tx to the payload to tell it the differential perssure
[18:26] <NigeyS> CME Arrival Time: 2012-03-11 08:33:12.0 GMT
[18:26] <NigeyS> Arival Time Confidence Level: ± 6 hours
[18:26] <NigeyS> Disturbance Duration: 11 hours
[18:27] <navrac> (must clean the keyboard - its full of bits of cut up polystyrene under the keys
[18:27] <navrac> oh nice- so gps goes wally just as we all launch
[18:27] <priyesh> NigeyS: what kind of effect is likely on GPS readings?
[18:28] <priyesh> (if anything)
[18:28] <NigeyS> at worst total loss, at the least, some iffy position reports
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> Total loss is unlikely
[18:30] <jcoxon> i think it'll be okay
[18:30] <jcoxon> priyesh, what module are you using?
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> 50m postion error isn't an issue in HAV
[18:30] <priyesh> lassen iQ
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> B
[18:30] <NigeyS> aye would need to be a huuuuuuuge storm for total loss
[18:30] <jcoxon> you'll hve good sky view
[18:31] <jcoxon> so it means that lots of sats to choose from
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> Especially given that if you get to it reasonably soon, you will get a correlated position
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> Also - waaaaaah.
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> Those rubidium frequency standards on ebay doubled in price.
[18:32] <NigeyS> :o
[18:32] <jcoxon> navrac okay, i'm off
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> ~60, not ~30 quid.
[18:32] <jcoxon> see you tomorrow
[18:32] <navrac> see you in the morning
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[18:35] <eroomde> right, hedgehog v0.2 #2 works
[18:35] <eroomde> not s hort in sight
[18:35] <eroomde> not a short*
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:37] <eroomde> but, I have generated plenty of work for myself for v0.2 https://github.com/eroomde/Hedgehog-Flight-Computer/issues?sort=created&direction=desc&state=open&page=1
[18:41] <griffonbot> @danielsaul: Case is a tight fit, need to get another battery pack and electronics in there still #apexhab #ukhas http://t.co/BnPt3p4J [http://twitter.com/danielsaul/status/178551093255618560]
[18:46] <eroomde> hedgehog #2: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6970062719_b5902b7dee.jpg
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[18:48] <Randomskk> cute
[18:48] <Randomskk> oh btw
[18:49] <Randomskk> why do you reflow the gps antenna?
[18:49] <eroomde> i didn't that time
[18:49] <Randomskk> I thought they recommended hand soldering it
[18:49] <Randomskk> ah okay
[18:49] <Randomskk> it looks really neat
[18:49] <eroomde> they may well
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[18:49] <Randomskk> I wanna use something other than this stupid non-polarised six pin FTDI header for the serial port in wombat's r2
[18:49] <Randomskk> but in theory I need to submit wombat r2 designs by monday morning, which may or may not happen
[18:49] <Randomskk> :|
[18:49] <eroomde> picoblade!
[18:50] <eroomde> my crimer hasn't arrived yet
[18:50] <eroomde> i rather neat it to do icsp
[18:50] <Randomskk> the only sad thing is that with picoblade I can't use the ftdi dongles directly
[18:50] <eroomde> need*
[18:50] <Randomskk> but I could easily make an adapter
[18:51] <eroomde> that's what i'm going to do
[18:51] <eroomde> might put the hedgehog in a nice case at some point too
[18:51] <eroomde> ip68 + milspec circulator connectors
[18:51] <eroomde> because they are The Best (tm)
[18:51] <Randomskk> hehe
[18:51] Dclarktandem (c6e4c998@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.228.201.152) joined #highaltitude.
[18:51] <Randomskk> how do you bond your connectors to the case to maintain ip68?
[18:51] <eroomde> they come with gaskets
[18:52] <Randomskk> and then just cut the holes fairly well?
[18:52] <Randomskk> nice
[18:52] <eroomde> yes - thankfully there is a cnc bridgeport about 5m from me here
[18:52] <eroomde> which i use to do all the connector holes for cases
[18:52] <Randomskk> jealous
[18:52] <eroomde> oh oh oh, i have also used schaeffer aeg
[18:52] <eroomde> they are amazing
[18:52] <Randomskk> I really need to figure out the cusf miller
[18:53] <eroomde> you have a wee panel designer
[18:53] <eroomde> which lets you make panels
[18:53] <eroomde> and they send it off
[18:53] <eroomde> then they make and post you a front panel with cnc'd holes, countersunk where you need, anodized and with dye-filled engraving
[18:53] <eroomde> it looks really really smart
[18:54] <Randomskk> swish
[18:54] <Randomskk> link?
[18:54] <Randomskk> I tried googling them but no :|
[18:54] Action: SpeedEvil prefers panels not made from wee.
[18:54] <Dclarktandem> Hi all, just notifying of a US launch tomorrow: Sunday at 14:30 UTC from Western Massachusetts
[18:54] <Randomskk> but it's usually sterile!
[18:55] <cuddykid> gahhh - I hate stats
[18:55] <eroomde> http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/index.html
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.pvoutput.org/listteam.jsp?p=0&tid=110 - UK solar generation - axis on the right. Multiply by 1000 for all panels installed in the UK.
[18:55] <Randomskk> cool
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> So, 2GWh today.
[18:55] <eroomde> or better: http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/products/showcase/front-panels/index.html
[18:55] <Randomskk> eroomde: what's pricing like?
[18:56] <eroomde> you can see on that page
[18:56] <eroomde> pretty reasonable
[18:57] <eroomde> maybe pricey for hobby but peanuts for one-off prototypes if someone is paying, or you have sponsorship :)
[18:57] <Randomskk> yea
[18:57] <Randomskk> nice
[18:57] <eroomde> £100 for this is really not bad: http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2Fanodized-aluminum-panel.jpg&md5=9024fa5cd2432365b51a3fc85e408b6ba0f2cf16&parameters[0]=YTo0OntzOjU6IndpZHRoIjtzOjM6IjgwMCI7czo2OiJoZWlnaHQiO3M6NDoiNjAw&parameters[1]=bSI7czo3OiJib2R5VGFnIjtzOjQxOiI8Ym9keSBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luOjA7IGJh&parameters[2]=Y2tncm91bmQ6I2ZmZjsiPiI7czo0OiJ3cmFwIjtzOjM3OiI8YSBocmVmPSJqYXZh&parameters[3]=c2NyaXB0OmNsb3
[18:58] <priyesh> how is ascent rate calculated on Spacenear.us? is it just the current packet and the previous one or something more complex?
[18:58] <Bob_G8NSV> does the USA launch have an HF ferquency please?
[18:59] <eroomde> right bbl
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[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> back
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil: 1.21 GW?
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> :P
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[19:12] <cuddykid> priyesh: I think so - hence the mad fluctuations - but it may be some exponentially weighted average of last x packets - not sure
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi priyesh
[19:12] <priyesh> hello
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> how is it going?
[19:13] <priyesh> just preparing for tomorrow's launch
[19:13] <priyesh> going to have the payload switch to only 50 baud in the last part of the descent
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> as was suggested
[19:14] <daveake_> nice
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> what will you have onboard this time?
[19:14] <priyesh> 2 cameras and the Apex III core
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> sensors?
[19:14] <priyesh> only temperature
[19:14] <priyesh> this launch is more for images rather than data
[19:15] <daveake_> Stupid Nokia. They removed the AT commands for reading text messages from a phone attached to a PC.
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:15] <Upu> Dclarktandem hi there are you using Spacenear.us ?
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> If you do that, it will screw up the SMS handling stack
[19:15] <daveake_> Fortunately I have a box of older phones here :)
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Similarlym you can't write SMSs
[19:16] <daveake_> SpeedEvil yeah I saw a post about that
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> If you're talking about n900, it's easy to send SMSs from scripts
[19:16] <daveake_> No I just want to receive
[19:16] <daveake_> It's a 6300i
[19:16] <daveake_> Anyway, I've found a W7 64-bit driver for my Motorola V3 phone
[19:17] <daveake_> Had a quick chat with it and the usual AT commands work
[19:17] <daveake_> The aim is for my payload to send a position text to the phone, which then uploads it to habhub
[19:18] <daveake_> I have a GSM module in the payload, and the V3 will be connected to my PC at home
[19:18] <daveake_> Payload stuff is working fine, so now I need to write the PC program
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> You can cheat.
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> Twitter
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> using a smartphone?
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[19:24] <daveake_> Twitter?
[19:25] <daveake_> LL No, no smartphone. The payload Arduino has a GSM module attached, and currently sends the RTTY string to my mobile every 30 seconds during descent and when below 2km.
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> I meant how he wants to use Twitter
[19:26] <daveake_> IC. Well I asked ...
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> GSM module is like the inside of a cellphone?
[19:26] <daveake_> I'll modify the payload to send that message to this V3 phone also
[19:27] <daveake_> And I'll write a program this weekend to copy the sentence to habhub. I'll ask the habhub guys how to do that. I know how to upload chase car positions but not HAB positions
[19:28] <daveake_> Yes the GSM module is basically a mobile phone without display or keyboard.
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> I find something funny
[19:28] <daveake_> I used a phone last time but killed it
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> today I spent my free day credit
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[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> and the Arduino Stackable Header Kit is sold out
[19:28] F5MVO (52e6b25d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.230.178.93) joined #highaltitude.
[19:28] <daveake_> afk - cooking
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> this is 2x the 6-pin header and 2x 8-pin
[19:28] <F5MVO> evening all
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> but the 6-pin is there about 5000 times, the 8-pin 7000 times!
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello F5MVO
[19:30] <F5MVO> good day tommorrow for launches, wind and rain ?
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> https://support.twitter.com/groups/34-apps-sms-and-mobile/topics/153-twitter-via-sms/articles/14589-getting-started-with-twitter-for-sms#
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> Twitter from the payload - via SMS
[19:34] <cuddykid> right, I think I have my mini pro hooked up to ICSP
[19:34] <cuddykid> time to give it a twirl
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[19:39] <cuddykid> do I need an ftdi cable etc to program arduino pro mini?
[19:39] <cuddykid> or can I just do it via USBtinyISP?
[19:40] <NigeyS> you should be able to do it with the usbtiny
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[19:41] <daveake_> SpeedEvil Nice, I think I'll do that too :)
[19:42] <NigeyS> cuddykid, iirc the option to upload with the usbtiny is in file menu
[19:42] <cuddykid> hmm, can't find it :(
[19:43] <NigeyS> ahh
[19:43] <NigeyS> seems to only be an option in the new v1.00 of the ide
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[19:44] <cuddykid> downloading it now
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[19:47] <number10> F5MVO: no rain. wind from NW
[19:48] <griffonbot> Received email: SamTC "[UKHAS] Project"
[19:48] <cuddykid> avrdude: usbdev_open(): did not find any USB device "usb"
[19:48] <NigeyS> eek
[19:50] <cuddykid> odd - the power light wasn't on the usbtiny until I clicked upload sketch then it came on
[19:51] <cuddykid> apparently rebooting sometimes does the trick - bb in a bit
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[20:43] <cuddykid> yes yes yes! got the ISP working with pro mini :D
[20:44] <cuddykid> (without daveake_'s help!)
[20:44] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> hey
[20:44] <cuddykid> hi Lunar
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid, fsphil-laptop today I used my free day credit
[20:45] <cuddykid> oh nice - what did you spend it on?
[20:45] <fsphil-laptop> pink leds?
[20:46] <cuddykid> that would've been a wise choice
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> bought FTDI 3.3V breakout
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> Arduino Pro Mega 3.3V
[20:47] <fsphil-laptop> nice
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> arduino headers
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> a 555 timer
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> just to have it
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11134
[20:48] <fsphil-laptop> I've yet to use a 555
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11132
[20:48] <fsphil-laptop> they seem quite popular
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> these two books they have new
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about them?
[20:57] <eroomde> i've used a 555
[20:57] <eroomde> never for anything proper
[20:57] <eroomde> just school
[20:58] <fsphil-laptop> actually now that I think about it, I do have one. it's in one of those kids circuit kits
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[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> and what do you think about those books?
[21:03] <G6SWJ> can anyone point me to arduino code for u blox max 6 gps via level convertor
[21:04] <Morseman> I've used a 555 for a CW audio output and a tone generator for WBFM 10GHz use
[21:07] <eroomde> G6SWJ: there's loads
[21:07] <eroomde> and a level converter shouldn't affect the code
[21:08] <eroomde> it's worth trying to find it on the ukhas wiki, because as much as anything else you'll stumbles across other useful things
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[21:10] <eroomde> the important details to note for using the ublox 6 are that you need to put it into an airborne mode so that the altitude will be given once you're at high altitudes
[21:10] <eroomde> otherwise it's just basic parsing of nmea which is worth writing from scratch yourself as it's not difficult but a very worthwhile exercise if you've not done it before
[21:11] <G6SWJ> thanks - i'll try ukhas wiki
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde: I am now avoiding level converters :)
[21:13] <G6SWJ> Is there a prob with level converters?
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[21:14] <eroomde> G6SWJ: cool. you will definitely get lots of help here as you write it. but not 'too much' help if you see what i mean. there's a tendancy towards the pedagogical which i think is A Good Thing
[21:15] <Randomskk> quick q, how do I get n from (1<<n)?
[21:15] <Randomskk> in theory log_2(1<<n) right, but I don't think I have log_2 readily available
[21:16] <eroomde> Randomskk: int?
[21:16] <Randomskk> yea
[21:16] <Randomskk> well let me ask the real question
[21:17] <fsphil-laptop> shift right until 0?
[21:17] <eroomde> ok. will yeah what fsphil said
[21:17] <eroomde> unless you want a mathsy way
[21:17] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[21:17] <Randomskk> :|
[21:18] <Randomskk> underlying question: I'm reading a GPIO port, it's being masked with a pre-shifted mask, I want to shift the result down to the first bit so it's 0 or 1
[21:18] <eroomde> if you want a mathsy way you can convert between logs easily:
[21:18] <Randomskk> well yes but I don't want to be running any log functions
[21:18] <Randomskk> I guess shifting it is :/
[21:18] <eroomde> log_a(b) = ln(b)/ln(a)
[21:18] <eroomde> if it's a float then cast as an int and look at the 7 exponent bits
[21:18] <Randomskk> it's an int, see ^
[21:18] <Randomskk> it's just a bitmasked port read, and the bit in position n is 0 or 1
[21:18] <eroomde> ah righty
[21:19] <Randomskk> I only have 1<<n
[21:19] <Randomskk> which is what the port read was masked with
[21:19] <Randomskk> hmmm I might just compare to 0 and return the result of the comparison
[21:19] <Randomskk> oh but you can't do that in C can you
[21:20] <Randomskk> ...or can you
[21:22] <eroomde> int n = 0; while(a) { a >> 1; n++; }
[21:22] <eroomde> or something like that?
[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> for(n = 0; a >> 1; n++); :)
[21:22] <eroomde> i have had a long day arright :p
[21:22] <Randomskk> turns out I can just (u8)(port_read() > 0)
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[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> it should be possible to do it in three operations
[21:30] <eroomde> bin search?
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> well maybe not three, but not much more
[21:31] <Randomskk> this comparison is going to be one ALU op
[21:31] <Randomskk> so for my purposes, I'm happy :P
[21:31] <Randomskk> well that does mean that everything I was doing last night trying to detect lock was wrong
[21:31] <Randomskk> it was always 0
[21:31] <Randomskk> how silly
[21:32] <Randomskk> on the other hand now that I've fixed it it's still not detecting lock
[21:32] <eroomde> detecting which lock?
[21:32] <Randomskk> PLL
[21:33] <eroomde> oic
[21:33] <Randomskk> the worst part is
[21:33] <Randomskk> I can put it on the scope
[21:33] <Randomskk> and when it's set to 434MHz
[21:33] <Randomskk> I can toggle the muxout between the R divider and the N divider (at lock, they should be the same, they're the two signals the PFD compares)
[21:34] <Randomskk> and see no difference at all. they're the same frequency
[21:34] <Randomskk> but if I set it much higher or lower frequency, then the two dividers start showing significantly different freqs
[21:34] <Randomskk> which implies it should be nearly there
[21:34] <Randomskk> and yet it doesn't detect lock
[21:34] <jonsowman> and it's definitely not locked?
[21:34] <jonsowman> just not detecting it?
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[21:35] <Randomskk> well if it doesn't think it's locked it's not locked
[21:35] <jonsowman> you should be able to tell from listening to it though right
[21:35] <Randomskk> maybe in theory
[21:35] <Randomskk> the analog lock detect signal is a bit weird
[21:35] <Randomskk> pulses that keep shifting width, it goes all over the place
[21:35] <Randomskk> I think the two signals might not be phase locked
[21:36] <jonsowman> so the PLL doesnt think it's locked
[21:36] <Randomskk> I'm a bit worried that the VCO is oscillating at 434MHz happily but the PLL isn't quite getting it dead on
[21:36] <Randomskk> indeed
[21:36] <Randomskk> and my scope can't see 434MHz at any rate
[21:36] <jonsowman> hmm
[21:36] <Randomskk> (also there's no VCO output pin)
[21:36] <Randomskk> well unless I set N to 1 I guess
[21:36] <jonsowman> how about loop filter o/p?
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[21:36] <Randomskk> that's not easy to scope due to the filter
[21:36] <jonsowman> oh yeah
[21:36] <Randomskk> can't really see it 'before' filter
[21:37] <jonsowman> mm yea i see
[21:37] <Randomskk> it's at 2.18V
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[21:37] <Randomskk> which is the upper end of the VCO's tuning range
[21:37] <Randomskk> for trying to get to 500MHz
[21:38] <Randomskk> let's try a low freq and see where that voltage goes
[21:38] <Randomskk> 420mV
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> anyone happen to have a large collection of random jpeg images in an archive somewhere? (not porn :)
[21:38] <Randomskk> so that behaviour is as expected...
[21:38] <jonsowman> well that sounds about right
[21:39] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:39] <jonsowman> Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - Apex III and Nova 20 (CUSF) launch 11/03/12 at ~1100GMT from Churchill College, Cambridge
[21:40] <Randomskk> gg
[21:40] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:40] <jonsowman> gg?
[21:40] <Randomskk> you said that
[21:40] <Randomskk> but didn't actually set the topic
[21:40] <jonsowman> lol
[21:40] <jonsowman> haha i'm a total idiot
[21:40] <jonsowman> :D
[21:40] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:40] <Randomskk> ~1.2V at 434MHz
[21:40] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - Apex III and Nova 20 (CUSF) launch 11/03/12 at ~1100GMT from Churchill College, Cambridge
[21:40] <Randomskk> so the VCO input appears correct
[21:40] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:41] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> nobody saw that
[21:41] <Randomskk> and as far as I can tell the VCO output is correct too
[21:41] <jonsowman> sounds right Randomskk
[21:41] <Randomskk> so why is it not detecting lock :(
[21:41] <Randomskk> or why is it not locking, same question
[21:42] <Randomskk> wish I knew what the "PLL test modes" setting was
[21:42] <jonsowman> more documentation in general would be nice
[21:42] <eroomde> whose pll?
[21:43] <Randomskk> ADF7012
[21:43] <Randomskk> it has an external loop filter which I think should be okay (using exactly the values their simulation software suggests for my setup)
[21:43] <Randomskk> (and indeed the voltage out of it is about what the datasheet says it should be for tuned)
[21:43] <Randomskk> it has an external L for the VCO to set its resonant frequency, which is close to what it should be and should be within range (and is suggested for 433 operation in their datasheet)
[21:44] <Randomskk> it has an R divider from the input clock (4.9152MHz crystal, r=2 so 2.5MHz ish)
[21:44] <Randomskk> and an N divider from the VCO, then the PFD compares the R and N...
[21:44] <Randomskk> and outputs a lock detect signal. which is not being set.
[21:44] <Randomskk> I can also view a buffered /2 output of both R and N on my scope, and they're both the same frequency when I program it for 434MHz operation
[21:44] <Randomskk> but, not locked
[21:45] <Randomskk> (and the frequency resolution of my scope is not that great, they're both "1.23MHz", so they could actually be not-quite-right)
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[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> what is R and N divider?
[21:46] Action: Upu high fives jonsowman
[21:46] <Upu> for the topic change
[21:46] <jonsowman> was that for my earlier fail? :P
[21:46] <jonsowman> mmm
[21:46] <Upu> :)
[21:46] <jonsowman> lol
[21:46] <Upu> 2 payloads
[21:46] <jonsowman> oh dear
[21:46] <jonsowman> 2 balloons Upu
[21:46] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: names of digital dividers. R divides the input, N divides the output
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[21:46] <Upu> oh any tracking info for Nova20 ?
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu
[21:47] <Randomskk> they should be the same when the PLL is locked
[21:47] <Upu> hi Luanr
[21:47] <Upu> Lunar
[21:47] <jonsowman> Upu: well it rather depends on whether Randomskk gets wombat running
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> Upu today I spent my free day money
[21:47] <Upu> Nova20=Wombat ?
[21:47] <jonsowman> if not, it'll be Squirrel on 434.075 _FM_
[21:47] <jonsowman> 50 baud rtty, i think the dl-fldigi thing is NEXUS
[21:47] <Randomskk> nova20 = squirrel + (maybe wombat hopefully please)
[21:47] <Upu> you know bear in mind I have had a glass of whisky and a few wines and this can get very confusing
[21:48] <jonsowman> http://www.cusf.co.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=nova_20
[21:48] <Upu> thanks
[21:48] <Upu> I'll update spacenear.us
[21:48] <jonsowman> (that is written assuming no wombat, that may change)
[21:48] <Upu> 350g how high will that go ?
[21:48] <Upu> on there
[21:48] <jonsowman> target alt is on that page Upu
[21:48] <Upu> ignore me
[21:48] <jonsowman> :)
[21:49] <jonsowman> Randomskk: is the gopro charged/
[21:49] <Randomskk> uhm
[21:49] <Randomskk> *ing
[21:49] <jonsowman> thanks :)
[21:51] <Upu> ok fixed
[21:51] <jonsowman> thanks Upu
[21:51] <Upu> whats ozzie doing voer Tunisa ?
[21:51] <Upu> over
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> Upu I bought the FTDI 3.3V basic breakout, arduino 3.3V mega
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> headers for the arduino
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> and so on
[21:52] <Upu> what free money Lunar_Lander ?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> Free Day
[21:52] <Upu> oh you got the sparkfun thing didn't you
[21:52] <Upu> nice one
[21:52] <daveake_> That's an interesting flight path
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[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Upu
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> Upu they have new books by that Forrest mims
[21:54] Action: Upu looks blank
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[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
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[21:55] <Upu> take your time off to walk the dog
[21:55] <Upu> bbs
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11134
[21:57] <Randomskk> hmm
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[21:57] <Randomskk> actually the loop filter signal is oscillating at 33k
[21:57] <Randomskk> with a centre freq of about a volt
[21:57] <jonsowman> ew
[21:57] <jonsowman> that's not good
[21:57] <Randomskk> well that's also roughly the designed bandwidth of the loop filter
[21:58] <jonsowman> i see
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[22:07] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: Nova 20 launches tomorrow at ~1100GMT. 50 baud RTTY on 434.075MHz FM (note: not SSB). #cusf #ukhas [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/178603015366909952]
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[22:08] <Matt_soton> so what are cusf flighing tomorrow if the ad part is still not working?
[22:08] <jonsowman> squirrel
[22:08] <jonsowman> nexus one phone doing RTTY and SSTV
[22:09] <Matt_soton> is squirrel the one that got stuck in a tree? :P
[22:09] <jonsowman> yep
[22:09] <jonsowman> survived three months up there
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[22:09] <Matt_soton> lol ironing
[22:09] <jonsowman> yes, we're considering calling it flying squirrel in the hope that it gets the "no trees" idea
[22:09] <eroomde> ?
[22:09] <jonsowman> eroomde: squirrels + trees
[22:10] <eroomde> no not u
[22:10] <Matt_soton> ironing = irony
[22:10] <jonsowman> apparently that's not well known Matt_soton
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[22:11] <Matt_soton> yea i knew you would know what i ment
[22:11] <eroomde> i didnt
[22:11] <jonsowman> eroomde: hedgehog all working?
[22:12] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: pull changes into your hourly
[22:12] <eroomde> no flight firmware yet
[22:12] <Matt_soton> wont it overwrite all my paths?
[22:12] <eroomde> but electrically firing on all cylinders thankfully
[22:12] <Matt_soton> or just update the new files?
[22:12] <jonsowman> eroomde: excellent
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[22:12] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: should just work
[22:13] <eroomde> i used a 6 digit bench multimtere to help track the short
[22:13] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: i'm not certain though
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> who of you watches Snooker?
[22:13] <eroomde> you can see the resistance drop as you get closer
[22:13] <Matt_soton> jonsowman: what file did you change?
[22:13] <jonsowman> eroomde: haha that's cool
[22:13] <Matt_soton> dw git will tell me
[22:13] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: look at the commits on github
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> is Snooker very popular in the UK?
[22:13] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: fetch and then git diff master origin/mster
[22:14] <jonsowman> but spelt right
[22:14] <cuddykid> not very Lunar_Lander
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> but most players are british, right?
[22:14] <cuddykid> pool in the pub - yes
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> I mean is it popular on TV
[22:14] <cuddykid> I know a few that watch snooker, not many though
[22:14] <eroomde> it is popular in britain and china
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, China Open
[22:14] <eroomde> #1 and #2 in the world, apparently
[22:14] <cuddykid> never got it at all, find it super boring to watch :P
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> when they show it on Eurosport, the bar at the bottom says "BBC Sports"
[22:15] <eroomde> cuddykid just doesnt like it
[22:15] <daveake_> eroomde http://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/model-1000/short-circuit-tracer/dp/IN01793
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[22:15] <eroomde> but it is popular, compared to other countries
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:15] <earthshine> What happened to the Apex launch today?
[22:15] <cuddykid> is there any way to read serial from pro mini via USBtinyISP ?
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> is Eurosport in the UK too?
[22:15] <cuddykid> yep Lunar
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:16] <eroomde> daveake_: http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?pn=34401A&cc=GB&lc=eng
[22:16] <eroomde> :p
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> WATTS is awesome
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:16] <daveake_> eroomde Yes that would do it :)
[22:17] <eroomde> but daveake_ silliness from me asside that looks pretty cool
[22:17] <eroomde> wonder how it works - measures phase or something?
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[22:19] <cuddykid> eroomde: is there anyway to read serial from pro mini without ftdi? (with USBtinyISP instead)
[22:19] <Randomskk> there isn't
[22:19] <Upu> roll your own
[22:19] <Upu> you already did ?
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> Upu https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11134
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> that book for instance
[22:20] <eroomde> another arduino?
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[22:20] <cuddykid> eroomde: I found my answer - no :P
[22:20] <Upu> Ah gotcha Lunar_Lander
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> and https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11132
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[22:21] <Upu> I think cuddykid's board is effectively an Arduino Pro at the core ?
[22:21] <cuddykid> Upu: yeah arduino pro mini
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[22:21] <Upu> same as mine
[22:21] <cuddykid> I just want to find the lowest cost way of debugging
[22:21] <Upu> but Arduino only in that I use Arduino to program it
[22:22] <daveake_> eroomde http://www.testecvw.com/
[22:22] <cuddykid> maybe hooking up the serial display for debugging might be a way around it
[22:22] <Randomskk> I would get an FTDI serial dongle thing
[22:22] <Randomskk> they're not very expensive and are really handy.
[22:22] <eroomde> serial lcd ~ same price as an arduino
[22:23] <cuddykid> eroomde: I have a serial lcd though :D
[22:23] <cuddykid> Randomskk: that would probably be the best idea
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[22:23] <Upu> cuddykidI just use NSS for debugging
[22:24] <daveake_> cuddykid I have an FTDI thing, with jumpers for 3.3 or 5V operation
[22:24] <Upu> yeah and a UM232
[22:24] <cuddykid> Upu: now theres a thought& but how would I read NSS on computer?
[22:24] <Upu> wheres the bot when you need it
[22:24] <cuddykid> I'll google :P
[22:24] <cuddykid> thanks
[22:24] <daveake_> poor botty
[22:24] <jonsowman> it was fine a minute ago
[22:25] <Upu> do I mean that
[22:25] <Upu> hang one
[22:25] <gonzo_> eve peeps
[22:25] <gonzo_> what are tomorrows launches?
[22:25] <Upu> http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Modules/DS_UM232R.pdf
[22:25] <Upu> hey gonzo_
[22:25] <Upu> see www.spacenear.us
[22:25] <Upu> see www.spacenear.us/tracker
[22:25] <Upu> quite a few :)
[22:26] <gonzo_> We don't seem to have any definitive central list of what, where and when.
[22:26] <gonzo_> Ta
[22:26] <daveake_> That's an impressive info box :)
[22:26] <jonsowman> gonzo_: in theory there's an upcoming list on the ukhas site
[22:26] <Upu> well thats as near as you're going to get to a central list
[22:26] <gonzo_> ah yes, but no onfo of where they are
[22:26] <Upu> click the links gonzo_
[22:27] <gonzo_> links?
[22:27] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[22:27] <Upu> in the info box
[22:27] <Randomskk> jonsowman: NOVA2? (on spacenearus info box)
[22:27] <jonsowman> oh
[22:27] <jonsowman> Upu: ^ that should be Nova 20
[22:27] <Upu> click the flight you're interested in
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[22:27] <jonsowman> please :)
[22:27] <Upu> whisky ftw!
[22:27] <Upu> brb
[22:27] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[22:27] <gonzo_> click in the info box?
[22:27] <jonsowman> has he gone to fix it..? or drink more..?
[22:27] <jonsowman> i don't know
[22:27] <daveake_> yes :)
[22:28] Action: Upu makes mystical hand movement
[22:28] <Upu> nothing to see
[22:28] <fsphil-laptop> that's a very vorlon answer
[22:28] <gonzo_> only link I see is the icr chan
[22:28] <Upu> move along
[22:28] <jonsowman> thanks Upu
[22:28] <Upu> put your cursor over a flight
[22:28] <Upu> and click
[22:29] <eroomde> Upu: good idea
[22:29] <gonzo_> no go on my browser (ff)
[22:29] <Upu> works on firefox here
[22:29] <eroomde> hey chaps what's a free hosted blog platform that isn't tumblr that lets me poke at the css so i can atleast have my own font?
[22:29] <Randomskk> wordpress.com
[22:29] <Randomskk> tumblr.com
[22:30] <Upu> well eroomde there are so many flights and people don't keep the wiki up to date I try collate it as best I can on spacenear.us
[22:30] <eroomde> no, wordpress seem to want $30/yr to 'customize' their themes
[22:30] <Randomskk> I see
[22:30] <eroomde> Upu: i meant the hiskey
[22:30] <eroomde> whisky*
[22:30] <Randomskk> I think the cool kids host their own in one form or another
[22:30] <Upu> ah :)
[22:30] <Upu> indeed
[22:30] <Randomskk> blogger? blogspot? those others?
[22:30] <daveake_> :)
[22:31] <eroomde> Randomskk: the cool kids have more time than I do
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[22:31] <Upu> 101 people and no flight...
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> Upu WE can make it happen
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:33] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Apex III Launch 2 at ~11:00GMT tomorrow. 434.650MHz, USB, 300baud RTTY. Simultaneous launch with @cuspaceflight 's Nova 20. #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/178609437207052289]
[22:33] <eroomde> Upu: hedgehog the second made today: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/6970062719/in/photostream
[22:33] <eroomde> the first is looking a bit poorly as she gave her life to let me track down a short
[22:34] <Upu> looks great
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> it's a hedgehog that may go supersonic, and you *didn't* make it blue!
[22:34] <NigeyS> you using isp to program ed ?
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> disappointed
[22:34] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: haha
[22:34] <jonsowman> definitely missed a trick there
[22:34] <jonsowman> :D
[22:36] <Upu> nova on 434.075 ?
[22:36] <jonsowman> yes
[22:37] <Upu> whats Ozzie on ?
[22:37] <Upu> ping navrac
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[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> Upu I found to my excitement that those power jacks that arduinos have also are available for breadboard use
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> I ordered 2 of those, so that I could have one on the veroboard
[22:39] <Upu> fair enough
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> to make connecting the battery easier
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[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> Upu making connections by soldering wires to the board is OK too?
[22:40] <Upu> yep just watch you don't hold the heat on too long
[22:41] <Upu> shouldn't be a problem as the chip is away from the ports
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> how do you mean?
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> I don't mean soldering something on the arduino
[22:41] <Upu> you mean the GPS ?
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[22:42] Nick change: daveake__ -> daveake
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> I rather meant if I can have like two strips of the board as a power supply
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> like on a breadboard
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> and then have wires running from that power rail to the respective components
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> you know what I mean?
[22:46] <Upu> I do
[22:48] <Upu> Hey Nova20 doing SSTV ?
[22:48] <jonsowman> Upu: yep
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[22:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Priyesh Patel "[UKHAS] Re: Apex III Launch 2 Notification"
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[22:51] <Upu> hey priyesh thx for considering it though
[22:51] <fsphil-laptop> that's always interesting
[22:52] <priyesh> no problem Upu
[22:52] <priyesh> we decided that 50 would make catching that 'last' packet harder
[22:53] <Upu> it you're chasing it and close then yes
[22:53] <Upu> hard for me :)
[22:53] <Upu> harder
[22:53] <daveake> :)
[22:53] <Upu> whats the prediction for tomorrow like ?
[22:54] <fsphil-laptop> is the SSTV tomorrow using FM or SSB?
[22:54] <priyesh> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=7777123b85d43700f5c7cd0043707f4e7a24f84b
[22:54] <priyesh> Upu: ^
[22:55] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: FM
[22:55] <fsphil-laptop> ta
[22:55] <Upu> not a bad one
[22:55] <Upu> right well I'll be about
[22:56] <priyesh> :)
[22:56] <Morseman> Which SSTV mode will it be?
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[23:00] <Randomskk> hmmm
[23:00] <Randomskk> 30kHz is the unit gain open loop frequency for the PLL
[23:00] <Randomskk> and that's the frequency I get oscillation at
[23:02] <eroomde> hey guys
[23:02] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/4CLSo.jpg
[23:02] <eroomde> that's a really clever idea right?
[23:03] <eroomde> onion ring
[23:03] <russss> cunning
[23:03] <eroomde> this will revolutionise my fry-up-in-a-single-pan-without-egg-leakage techniques
[23:03] <russss> hah
[23:04] <daveake> fsphil will love that
[23:05] <eroomde> :)
[23:05] <eroomde> i think on reddit they would say something like:
[23:05] <eroomde> Mind = Blown
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[23:14] <fsphil-laptop> say what now
[23:14] <daveake> Onions. Is there anything they can't do?
[23:14] <fsphil-laptop> taste nice?
[23:14] <daveake> :)
[23:14] <fsphil-laptop> smell good?
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> (actually take that back, depending on how they're cooked they do smell nice)
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[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> hey daveake
[23:16] <daveake> What have I done?
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> cooked
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> Upu so that would work?
[23:17] <daveake> Well, yes. :)
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> what is the best way to break the veroboard strips?
[23:17] <daveake> beans toast waffles?
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> just scrape off the copper with a knive or so?
[23:17] <daveake> veroboard track cutter
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: A spot face cutter
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: This is a drill with a shallow point angle
[23:18] <daveake> safer than a kinfe
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> You can make one in a few moments with a grinder and a drill of about the right size
[23:18] <daveake> http://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/22-0239g/spot-face-cutter/dp/PC00066
[23:18] <eroomde> +1 for drill-esque-thing
[23:18] <eroomde> really easy and neat
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> Just make a ~160 degree angle drill or so.
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> EAsy.
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[23:19] <daveake> And make sure you don't leave any little pieces of track-shorting copper behind
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> as these could malfunction
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> farnell germany finds two devices for track cutter
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> the one costs 1.65 euro
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> the other 12 euro
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> and they look similar
[23:21] <eroomde> link
[23:21] <daveake> http://uk.farnell.com/duratool/3360568a/cutter-track/dp/3360568
[23:21] <daveake> http://uk.farnell.com/apw/22-0239/cutter-spot-face/dp/329538
[23:22] <eroomde> dunno
[23:22] <eroomde> i just put a drillbit in a handle
[23:22] <daveake> Lunar_Lander If you aren't otherwise making a Farnell order, I /think/ I have a spare somewhere.
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> exactly these two daveake
[23:23] <daveake> But if you are, that cheap one is cheaper than me posting one :)
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> don't really planning to order something
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> currently
[23:23] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/7Ha9z.jpg
[23:23] <daveake> I don't know where 1 is let alone 2, but I think I do have 2 hiding somewhere
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde: ?
[23:24] <daveake> Some of those faces need treatment with something larger than a spot cutter
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> the funniest is that woman with "she eats four rolls of toilet paper"
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> leftmost column, second row
[23:26] <eroomde> my favourite so far is 4th row, first on left
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> and that guy with the "founding fathers" hat/fake hair
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> second one from the bottom, leftmost column
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde: ROFL darren
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> "Arica says she found a tooth in her house that Micheal can't explain"
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:29] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[23:30] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_BLggf-mqs
[23:30] <eroomde> this finished me off the other night
[23:30] <fsphil-laptop> ah man
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> Bear Grylls is cool!
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:38] Action: SpeedEvil prefers other drinks.
[23:44] <Upu> Lunar he's what we refer to here as a "cock end"
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> what's that?
[23:47] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpSlpvb1is
[23:47] <Upu> night night
[23:48] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: around?
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> yup
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> hacking stm32 code as usual XD
[23:50] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: so the ADF7021-N has I and Q output modes
[23:50] <Randomskk> though only one at a time
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:50] <schofieldau> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTlsqZ214Mw
[23:50] <Randomskk> jonsowman suggested putting two on a PCB
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> wut
[23:50] <Randomskk> hooked to the same antenna
[23:50] <schofieldau> (on the bear grylls topic)
[23:50] <Randomskk> it's I and Q at IF
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> wait whats the adf7021?
[23:51] <Randomskk> their transceiver thing
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> oh
[23:51] <Randomskk> it's different to the -12
[23:51] <Randomskk> which is tx only
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> digital outputs?
[23:51] <Randomskk> oh uhm
[23:51] <Randomskk> looking further
[23:52] <Randomskk> it has I or Q as two analogues, but
[23:52] <Randomskk> it also has a mode where it puts digital I and Q output
[23:52] <Randomskk> on two output lines
[23:53] <Randomskk> well I assume it's digital. might not be.
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:53] <Randomskk> it says "I, Q TO TxRxCLK, TxRxDATA"
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> XD schofieldau
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> yeah cant you stick an adc on those test pins?
[23:53] <Randomskk> well you could stick an adc on its test pin and output either I or Q
[23:53] <Randomskk> or I think you could just use the digital I, Q output
[23:53] <Randomskk> it might not even be digital, I'm not sure
[23:54] MoALTz_ (~no@host-92-8-146-183.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:54] <Randomskk> the -21 looks like a way more capable chip than the -12
[23:54] <Randomskk> should have used that in r1 from the start to be honest
[23:54] <Randomskk> even just using it as a TX it'd be better
[23:54] <Randomskk> still can't get the adf7012 to sodding lock its sodding pll
[23:55] <Randomskk> grrrr
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[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> schofieldau: is the video from actual episodes?
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> just with the spoof/joke audio?
[23:56] <schofieldau> Lunar: nope it's just a guy that looks like him
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[23:57] <Laurenceb_> wheres the digital mode described?
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> but it's professional when they did all the stuff with the helicopter and so on
[23:58] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: in RX test modes
[23:58] <Randomskk> well "described". more like mentioned
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> oh i see
[00:00] --- Sun Mar 11 2012