highaltitude.log.20120308

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[04:00] <schofieldau> hey
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[04:34] <adlit> shenki: Ping
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[08:54] <SamSilver> good moaning .... good moaning ... anyone found the madona with the big boobies?
[08:54] <SamSilver> madonna
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[09:07] <UpuWork> fallen madonna...
[09:07] <UpuWork> and tbh they aren't that big
[09:07] <UpuWork> oaning ... anyone found the madona with the big boobies?
[09:07] <UpuWork> [08:54] <SamSilver> madonna
[09:07] <UpuWork> fail
[09:07] <UpuWork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FallenMadonna.jpg
[09:08] <UpuWork> nsfw if you work in the Mary Whitehouse Company for Moral Decay
[09:10] <fsphil> hah
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[09:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Volare "[UKHAS] Members enquiry"
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[09:45] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Members enquiry"
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[09:49] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/GkVvA.jpg
[09:49] <Laurenceb_> this is how i ride
[09:50] <Darkside> hahaha
[09:51] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: some of the skyworks stuff looks useful for making an sdr scanner
[09:51] <Laurenceb_> they have a direct conversion mixer with 1 x LO input
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[09:54] <fsphil> ah, always good to prepare for the inevitable zombie apocalypse
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[10:01] <UpuWork> amazing
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[10:06] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: what mixers
[10:06] <Darkside> i might use one
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> just a sec
[10:06] <Darkside> wait skyworks
[10:06] <Darkside> i know that name
[10:06] <Darkside> they're a UK fabless silicon company, right?
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> http://www.skyworksinc.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=66
[10:07] <Laurenceb_> erm in not sure
[10:07] <Laurenceb_> they own sige now
[10:07] <Darkside> yep i know those chips
[10:07] <Darkside> useless for me
[10:08] <Darkside> i need somethign that works for HF
[10:09] <Laurenceb_> ah
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[10:39] <cuddykid> what a mad 12 hrs
[10:39] <cuddykid> 4 iPads ordered though :P
[10:40] <cuddykid> needless to say the bank balance is not looking too good
[10:45] <eroomde> My Watson has arrived!
[10:45] <UpuWork> 4 ?
[10:45] <UpuWork> meh my Tonna hasn't
[10:45] <eroomde> a lovely antenna
[10:45] <eroomde> quite wieldable
[10:45] <UpuWork> W-50 ?
[10:45] <Darkside> i still need to put up my diamond...
[10:45] <fsphil> your colinear is not a light sabre
[10:46] <Darkside> my diamond is gigantic
[10:46] <eroomde> it makes you want to say something like 'an elegant antenna, for a more civilised aged'
[10:46] <eroomde> yeah W-50 UpuWork
[10:46] <UpuWork> haha
[10:46] <Darkside> eroomde: how long is it?
[10:46] <UpuWork> a wise choice
[10:46] <UpuWork> 1.8m
[10:46] <Darkside> bah
[10:46] <Darkside> mine is 5m long
[10:46] <Darkside> :-)
[10:46] <Darkside> 12dBi gain on 70cm
[10:46] <UpuWork> sadly yours is in the wrong hemisphere though
[10:46] <Darkside> yup
[10:47] <eroomde> it's 12800km below sea level
[10:47] <UpuWork> lol
[10:47] <Darkside> hahaha
[10:47] <eroomde> and we all know it's height above seal level that counts
[10:47] <eroomde> sea*
[10:47] <Darkside> eroomde: sporadic-e
[10:47] <eroomde> touche
[10:47] <Darkside> reflection off swamp gas on venus
[10:48] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/zlZ2f.jpg
[10:48] <Darkside> theres might antenna
[10:48] <UpuWork> is that power line above you ?
[10:48] <number10> you need to do some gardening Darkside
[10:49] <Darkside> UpuWork: its a HF antenna
[10:49] <UpuWork> k
[10:49] <daveake> Suddenly my previously ample 3m colinear seems rather inadequate
[10:49] <UpuWork> 3m Tonna on its way
[10:49] <number10> I thought you already had a yagi UpuWork ?
[10:50] <UpuWork> small one for running round chasing payloads with
[10:50] <cuddykid> yeah UpuWork: 1 for moi, 1 for my dad, 2 for ebay :P
[10:50] <UpuWork> this is a big one for the roof
[10:51] <number10> ahh for your rotator
[10:51] <UpuWork> yup
[10:51] <Darkside> number10: my landlord needs to do some gardening
[10:51] <Darkside> not me
[10:51] <Darkside> >_>
[10:51] <UpuWork> funny but I was thinking, damn that lawn needs mowinv
[10:51] <Darkside> heh
[10:51] <Darkside> thatantenna still isnt on teh roof
[10:51] <Darkside> its sitting in the lounge against a wall
[10:52] <Darkside> it very nearly didn't fit in the lounge too
[10:53] <fsphil> well I've got the smallest antenna .. it's the size of an empty SO-239 socket
[10:53] <UpuWork> woo
[10:53] <UpuWork> dispatch notification for that Tonna just came through
[10:54] <UpuWork> must have heard me
[10:54] <cuddykid> lol
[10:54] <fsphil> they had to get the long load lorry ready
[10:54] <fsphil> are you sure your house can support this?
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[11:02] <UpuWork> to be honest
[11:02] <UpuWork> no
[11:02] <UpuWork> but only one way to fin out
[11:02] <UpuWork> find
[11:03] <fsphil> what weight is it?
[11:03] <Darkside> hah
[11:03] <UpuWork> 3kg
[11:03] <Darkside> i'm getting some scary mounts made up to go on teh roof
[11:03] <Darkside> they're going to be very over-engineered
[11:03] <UpuWork> I have some of those
[11:03] <Darkside> i'm putting up the diamond, and a HF vertical
[11:03] <UpuWork> sec I'll show you
[11:04] <fsphil> I wish I could put the hf vertical I have on the roof, might get it above the noise here
[11:04] <Darkside> fsphil: you'll get more noise i bet
[11:04] <fsphil> oh
[11:04] <fsphil> where from?
[11:04] <Darkside> vertical pick sup more groundwave
[11:04] <Darkside> and noise is mainly from groundwave
[11:05] <fsphil> the same vertical on the roof vs on the ground though?
[11:05] <Darkside> yeah i dont think it'd make much difference
[11:05] <UpuWork> I can't find the picture
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[11:14] <eroomde> need to fabricate something to get a vertical piece of scaff onto the mast
[11:18] <cuddykid> if anyone feels the urge to buy a hugely over inflated iPad, please feel free - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130661414120 :P
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[11:20] <eroomde> right, I am now a flickr pro person
[11:20] <eroomde> so, time to start blogging and flickring more
[11:21] <cuddykid> I don't like flickr at all - it seems to be clunky and very slow for me :/
[11:21] <cuddykid> eroomde: have you got your iPad pre-order in?!
[11:26] <fsphil> flickr is the only good part of yahoo
[11:28] <eroomde> cuddykid: shortly
[11:29] <eroomde> was out all last nigtht
[11:29] <cuddykid> I managed to put my first one in just before midnight, then the site crashed (again) and popped the 2nd in when I woke up at 5:30 :P
[11:30] <eroomde> crazy child
[11:30] <eroomde> not surew which one I want yet either
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[11:30] <cuddykid> lol
[11:31] <cuddykid> I've gone for 3x white 16gb wifi and 1 white 16gb wifi+4G
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[11:36] <cuddykid> YESSS! - finally the pcbs have left HK!
[11:37] <cuddykid> at long last
[11:37] <cuddykid> still doubt it will get to me by tomorrow - if it comes into east mids, then it may
[11:40] <cuddykid> nothing appearing on RMs systems yet
[11:42] <Randomskk> usually a week or so before they get to you after leaving hk
[11:43] <cuddykid> damn
[11:43] <eroomde> fsphil UpuWork : some details of the pasting and ovening as you asked: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/sets/72157629174453806/
[11:43] <eroomde> am gonna work it into a blog post too probably
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[11:48] <UpuWork> ah stencil...
[11:48] <UpuWork> very high tech paste spreader...
[11:48] <UpuWork> BnQ ?
[11:50] <number10> you really should write a review of that toaster eroomde - thats going to confuse the hell out of anyone who reads it
[11:51] <fsphil> 4 stars, would be 5 but my toast tasted of solder
[11:54] <eroomde> :)
[11:54] <eroomde> bnq-class yeah
[11:55] <UpuWork> I should get a template next time
[11:55] <fsphil> does it produce a smell eroomde?
[11:55] <fsphil> any fumes?
[11:55] <eroomde> the oven smells the first few times
[11:55] <eroomde> dust and manufacturing coatings and stuff
[11:55] <eroomde> i would just leave it on full power for 20 minutes outside when yuou first get it
[11:56] <UpuWork> do you monitor the temperture ?
[11:56] <eroomde> the control box does
[11:56] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/6817899948/in/set-72157629174453806/
[11:56] <eroomde> see on the right
[11:56] <eroomde> that follows the recommended temp profile for reflowing
[11:57] <UpuWork> ah ok
[11:57] <eroomde> makes a big difference over just winging it
[11:57] <eroomde> in terms of making the flux behave properly for better reflowing
[11:58] <Darkside> eroomde: where did you get the control box
[11:58] <cuddykid> eroomde: that soldering is awesome
[12:00] <fsphil> any fumes from the soldering though?
[12:00] <Darkside> also what switchmode supply is that?
[12:00] <UpuWork> what colour underwear are you wearing ?
[12:00] <Darkside> was it patterned?
[12:01] <Randomskk> you're totally cheating on the smps :P
[12:01] <fsphil> tesco or asda?
[12:01] <cuddykid> where did you get the oven from?
[12:01] <eroomde> fsphil: not so much no
[12:01] <cuddykid> what did you eat this morning?
[12:01] <eroomde> oven - argos
[12:01] <eroomde> toast
[12:01] <Randomskk> animal, vegetable or mineral?
[12:01] <eroomde> peanut butter
[12:01] <fsphil> http://www.reflow-kit.com/rkuk/order_product_details.html?wg=1&p=242
[12:01] <cuddykid> solder toast?
[12:01] <cuddykid> :P
[12:01] <UpuWork> there is a cheap reflow oven for £150 ?
[12:02] <Randomskk> http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/ptn78000waz/ic-isr-1-5a-adj-o-p-smd-78000/dp/1109697 if I'm not mistaken, Darkside
[12:02] <UpuWork> someone linked it yesterday
[12:02] <Randomskk> huh
[12:02] <Randomskk> clearly not that one actually
[12:02] <UpuWork> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UPDATED-T-962-INFRARED-IC-HEATER-REFLOW-WAVE-OVEN-BGA-T962-800W-180-235MM-NEW-h4-/110824856834?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item19cdad1d02
[12:03] <fsphil> that controller is only 100-ish, add 20 or so for a cheapy oven
[12:03] <Randomskk> I can read >_> http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/pth08080was/dc-dc-converter/dp/1704193
[12:03] <fsphil> and £5 for novelty oven gloves
[12:04] <Darkside> Randomskk: ahh
[12:04] <Darkside> useless for me
[12:04] <Darkside> i'm boosting from 3v
[12:07] <Darkside> also the BoM for one TPS61200 based boost converter is about $4
[12:07] <Darkside> does involve soldering a QFN though...
[12:07] <Randomskk> yea. I think the advantage is that they're easier to put in place and also it's a double sided multilayer PCB with parts on both sides
[12:07] <Randomskk> so less board space perhaps
[12:07] <Randomskk> also it should Just Work
[12:07] <Darkside> mm
[12:07] <Randomskk> (though I have the larger current version and it's not just working atm, which is very frustrating)
[12:07] <Darkside> i managed to squeeze a TPS61200 switchmode supply into a pretty small space
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[12:23] <eroomde> solering qfn no problem
[12:23] <eroomde> mit de toastenoven
[12:23] <eroomde> i think v0.2 will switch to 1284qfn
[12:24] <eroomde> and perhaps swap the io and the gps uarts so that you can use arduino for load the software
[12:24] <eroomde> and have battery voltage monitoring
[12:24] <eroomde> that's probably what i will restrict myself to for v0.2
[12:24] <eroomde> apart from bug fixes and routing rationalisation
[12:25] <zyp> UpuWork, I recently bought one of those
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[12:27] <Laurenceb> i want to try a WCSP-64 stm32
[12:27] <Laurenceb> 4mm square 64 pads :D
[12:28] <fsphil> ah yes I remember the pic now zyp
[12:28] <Darkside> Laurenceb: wha pitch?
[12:28] <Laurenceb> 0.5mm
[12:29] <eroomde> that sounds ough laurenceb!
[12:29] <eroomde> can imagine it aligning itself into the wrong thing during reflow if you're not mega careful
[12:29] <Laurenceb> yeah would take a microscope
[12:29] <Darkside> wow
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[12:29] <Darkside> one of the techs at uni does QFN chips without reflow
[12:30] <Darkside> he just uses lots of flux and a very wide tip iron
[12:30] <Laurenceb> eroomde: is that a smps module?
[12:30] <cuddykid> off to see if the postie has delivered me any goodies :D
[12:31] <fsphil> if you keep this up cuddykid, the postie will be leaving you something else
[12:31] <fsphil> poor guy probably has a bad back now
[12:31] <cuddykid> lol fsphil
[12:31] <eroomde> Laurenceb: yes
[12:31] <cuddykid> no wonder I didn't get Upu's delivery until about 4pm yesterday
[12:31] <Laurenceb> interesting
[12:31] <eroomde> PTH08080 surface mount variant
[12:31] <Laurenceb> ive developed my own smps design using ltc3467a
[12:31] <eroomde> i did that too
[12:32] <eroomde> then realised there was no point
[12:32] <Laurenceb> its supposed to be a boost convertor
[12:32] <eroomde> i saved a bit of board space and time this way
[12:32] <Laurenceb> *shrug*
[12:32] <eroomde> it may end up being my own one on v1
[12:32] <eroomde> but until then it's faster/better
[12:32] <Laurenceb> ltc3467a based sepic is really nice
[12:33] <Darkside> i went with the TPS61200 since we've used them on prebvious flights
[12:33] <Laurenceb> takes a bit of fiddling in ltspice to get it to work well
[12:33] <Laurenceb> but the ltspice models seem very accurate
[12:33] <Darkside> our current APRS payload uses a modified lipower board
[12:33] <Laurenceb> interesting
[12:33] <Laurenceb> i wanted operation off a single lipo, with up to 400ma out at 3.3v
[12:33] <Laurenceb> with cell down to 2.8v
[12:34] <Darkside> hrmm
[12:34] <cuddykid> no goodies, yet
[12:34] <Darkside> i dont think the lipower will do 400mA
[12:34] <Laurenceb> ltc3467a can just about do that
[12:34] <Darkside> i only need about 100mA
[12:34] <Darkside> 200*
[12:34] <Laurenceb> can also take up to 16v in
[12:35] <Darkside> so its a buck-boost converter?
[12:35] <Laurenceb> no, sepic
[12:35] <Darkside> (never heard of it)
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[12:36] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/tree/master/Hardware/MFG
[12:36] <Laurenceb> BOM there
[12:36] <Laurenceb> L9,10 and D7 are important
[12:37] <Laurenceb> rest isnt so vital, but i used the biggest 0603 caps i coud get - 10uF 6.3v
[12:38] <Laurenceb> also smps to 3.7v, then a huge tantalum on the rail, and tps73233 down the the 3.3v rails
[12:38] <zyp> Laurenceb, didn't you say you failed the design?
[12:38] <Laurenceb> that was my cheapass version for dataloggers
[12:38] <zyp> too much EMI or something?
[12:38] <Laurenceb> yeah - its had some spikes
[12:39] <zyp> ah, right
[12:39] <Laurenceb> much cleaner now i improved the layout and got better smoothing caps
[12:39] <Laurenceb> but the Dactyl power is amazingly clean
[12:40] <Laurenceb> problem with the BOM i linked is its pretty expensive and uses parts that are a bit of a pita to source
[12:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Volare "[UKHAS] Re: Members enquiry"
[12:55] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Members enquiry"
[13:00] <eroomde> interesting idea
[13:00] <eroomde> interesting attemp at english
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[13:00] <eroomde> the gods of typo always strike when you criticise someone's writing
[13:01] <daveake> :D
[13:02] <fsphil> restores the balance
[13:04] <cuddykid> navrac what power are you using to uplink?
[13:05] <UpuWork> be max you can squeeze out of a RFM
[13:05] <UpuWork> 100mW ?
[13:05] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:05] <Laurenceb> its using the inbuilt modem?
[13:05] <UpuWork> think so
[13:05] <Laurenceb> silabs have some new transceivers out
[13:06] <UpuWork> if I get details in time I'll knock a circuit up
[13:06] <UpuWork> and cable it up to a Yagi
[13:06] <Laurenceb> looks several dB better link budget that si4432
[13:06] <Laurenceb> *than
[13:06] <Laurenceb> but the link budget for si4432 is easily enough to allow uplink
[13:06] <Laurenceb> the issue is going to be interference
[13:07] <Laurenceb> i did some rough calcs based on the iss packet link
[13:07] <cuddykid> oh dear - someone has just rode by on the road on one of those tiny tiny mini motorbike things
[13:07] <Laurenceb> and it looked feasible over tens of km
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[13:08] <cuddykid> what's the guesses - will the uplink work?
[13:09] <UpuWork> minimal
[13:09] <UpuWork> but only one way to find out :)
[13:09] <cuddykid> yep :D
[13:09] <cuddykid> will be great if it does work
[13:10] <UpuWork> I could spurt it out via that Tonna I just bought
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[13:11] <Laurenceb> theoretically youll get about 2000km range
[13:11] <UpuWork> but that may be a little wieldy to set up portable
[13:11] <Laurenceb> with a yagi on the bottom and 1kbps data rate
[13:11] <UpuWork> I assume the antenna is vertically poliarized
[13:11] <cuddykid> is it just a 1/4wave on the payload?
[13:11] <Laurenceb> but i seriously doubt itll be more than 100km or so uplink range
[13:12] <Laurenceb> openpilot have has 15km range with the si4432
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[13:28] <oh7lzb> join #freenode
[13:28] <oh7lzb> oops
[13:28] <fsphil> say please
[13:29] <fsphil> wow, the number of opera users on our website doubled overnight! there's two now
[13:29] <cuddykid> are we ready for the solar storm?
[13:29] <cuddykid> fsphil: lol - retards
[13:30] <cuddykid> who the hell uses opera?! Dear oh dear
[13:30] <fsphil> I used to
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[13:30] <cuddykid> "used" is the key word there :P
[13:32] <kokey> so what happened with FALCON?
[13:32] <cuddykid> off to grab a free dominos - bbl
[13:32] <kokey> I can't find a blog/wiki/whatever
[13:33] <x-f> kokey, it went very well - http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas/msg/d56d3568e859f73b
[13:34] <navrac> ughh I hate all forms of c
[13:34] <x-f> except the geiger counter
[13:34] <kokey> yeah I was following it on the tracker
[13:34] <kokey> ah ok it did land in the field close to the road
[13:34] <fsphil> navrac?
[13:35] <kokey> I like C
[13:35] <navrac> hello - having a bad day here
[13:35] <kokey> especially ANSI C
[13:35] <kokey> cocaine is a bit meh tho
[13:35] <navrac> i like pascal and assembler, but this arduino uplink code is jilling me
[13:35] <kokey> heh
[13:35] <fsphil> I relax after a an annoying day doing Visual Basic by coding something in C :)
[13:35] <kokey> I remember doing a bit of asm in pascal
[13:36] <kokey> from stuff I learned from demo trainers
[13:36] <navrac> right fsphil- you can find my bugs(s)
[13:36] <kokey> yeah I also find coding in C as therapeutic
[13:36] <navrac> i only had one to start, but after hacking the code i have loads
[13:36] <kokey> as long as it's not trying to fix someone else's code
[13:41] <fsphil> C compilers can be quite vocal about errors, sometimes it looks like lots but may just be a few lines
[13:42] <navrac> no its not errors - its the seriasl link between the pc and the tx board keeps giving me rubbish
[13:42] <fsphil> ah
[13:42] <fsphil> when did it start
[13:42] <fsphil> ?
[13:42] <navrac> after i played with the code too many times!
[13:42] <eroomde> 1.5ohms between 3V3 and GND
[13:42] <eroomde> fml
[13:44] <fsphil> hehe "Dinner is served" http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/6964016669/in/set-72157629174453806/
[13:44] <fsphil> wait, you've got spam on one of your images
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[13:50] <kokey> navrac: did it change from somewhat legible to total rubbish?
[13:51] <navrac> trouble is ive hacked the code so much i cant remember what ive changed
[13:52] <fsphil> I used to do the same -- I find git is great for finding out what I did wrong since the last time it worked
[13:52] <fsphil> but that won't help you :)
[13:54] <kokey> yeah git is nice for that
[14:11] <fsphil> uh-oh, I bought an arduino
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[14:42] <cuddykid> which one fsphil?
[14:43] <NigelMoby> :o I've joined the dark side Fsphil!
[14:43] <NigelMoby> uve*
[14:44] <number10> what were you usung before fsphil ?
[14:44] <kokey> a Z80 based board
[14:45] <daveake> It'd better be a Mini Pro or I won't talk to him again :)
[14:45] <cuddykid> lol
[14:45] <BrainDamage> he was flying a giant vacuum tube based pc
[14:45] <BrainDamage> before the flight he had to load punched card
[14:45] <cuddykid> he's gone quiet - not a good sign
[14:46] <fsphil> cuddykid, uno
[14:46] <fsphil> just needed to push an order over the free-postage mark
[14:46] <daveake> ono
[14:46] <cuddykid> dun dun dunnnnnn!
[14:46] <cuddykid> :P
[14:46] <number10> he's changed his mind after looking at the newoft serial libraries
[14:46] <cuddykid> *shock horror*
[14:46] <fsphil> just something to hack at :) I'll not be using the IDE
[14:47] <NigelMoby> lol Nss = evil
[14:47] <fsphil> very :)
[14:47] <fsphil> written by satan himself
[14:47] <kokey> I'm thinking of getting a TI microcontroller instead
[14:47] <NigelMoby> but Phil the IDE is so....... intuitive.....lol
[14:47] <cuddykid> a standard text editor does a better job than the arduino app
[14:48] <fsphil> vim, make and avrdude will do me :)
[14:48] <NigelMoby> notepad++ ftw
[14:48] <daveake> +1
[14:48] <fsphil> yea I've heard good things about notepad++
[14:48] <NigelMoby> I tried make newgf and it doesn't work ?
[14:49] <kokey> fsphil: vim, C, and I'm happy too
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[14:52] <NigelMoby> ping eroomde
[14:52] <Laurenceb> i use gedit
[14:53] <cuddykid> textmate here
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[14:53] <cuddykid> or xcode
[14:53] <NigelMoby> gedit is pretty neat
[14:53] <Laurenceb> i like the cobalt theme
[14:54] <BrainDamage> the code assistance plugin for gedit makes it very neat
[14:54] <BrainDamage> inline checks your syntax as you type
[14:55] <NigelMoby> Yup
[14:55] <fsphil> vim does that too
[14:56] <fsphil> bit copying and pasting is annoying in it
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[14:56] <NigelMoby> I always forget to press esc in vim
[14:57] <zyp> I always start typing random shit into documents when they for some reason open in something else than vim here
[14:57] <fsphil> hehe yea, it's very easy to end up in the wrong place
[14:59] <zyp> I've used textmate for years, but I started using vim at work when I got a job last year since we don't use macs at work
[15:00] <zyp> and now I'm at the point where I'm getting confused by unexpected behavior when I don't use vim
[15:01] <zyp> I still use textmate at home, but I think it's just a matter of time until I switch
[15:01] <NigelMoby> do it, join the dark side :)
[15:03] <zyp> I still think textmate gives me better overview over the files I have, but vim's editor is better
[15:03] <NigelMoby> hmm solar storm is at s3
[15:06] <x-f> aurora forecast is 5, "extreme", on http://www.gi.alaska.edu/AuroraForecast/Europe/2012/03/08
[15:06] <x-f> and Moon shines at 99.9%..
[15:07] <jiffe98> anyone know if the garmin 18x still has an altitude limit?
[15:11] <PD3EM_work> not much aurora yet and a lot of absorption on HF.... http://www.pd3em.com/?q=node/140
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[15:22] <fsphil> wonder if there's any vhf propagation
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[15:27] <PD3EM_work> dont no abt VHF at the moment... check the cluster for au dx
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[15:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.lovecut.co.uk/vinyl-cutters-24-c.asp
[15:58] <Laurenceb> cheap
[15:59] <Hix> Came across these guys earlier, their site is not impressive but they were recommended in a book. Anyone used them before?
[15:59] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of abusing a cutter for flexipcb
[16:00] <Laurenceb> they sell hot presses too
[16:01] <jonsowman> fsphil: link to your hourly?
[16:02] <fsphil> http://hourly.sanslogic.co.uk/
[16:02] <fsphil> urg
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[16:04] <jonsowman> fsphil: click on your saturday 11am flight path on the hourly
[16:04] <jonsowman> compare to this
[16:04] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d33e1b531018cb2603bdd4428931146426c26844
[16:06] <fsphil> oh
[16:06] <jonsowman> yea...
[16:06] <jonsowman> we're having the same problem with the cusf one
[16:06] <jonsowman> it's not just you
[16:06] <jonsowman> but we've got no idea why
[16:06] <Randomskk> rest assured we are putting our best people on it
[16:06] <fsphil> it's like the ascent rate is too fast
[16:06] <jonsowman> it's been consistently wrong over the last 24 hours or so
[16:06] Action: Randomskk looks at jonsowman
[16:06] Action: jonsowman hides
[16:06] <fsphil> same predictor code?
[16:07] <jonsowman> i think so
[16:07] <jonsowman> i've not changed either
[16:07] <jonsowman> and they were cloned from the same place
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[16:08] <NigelMoby> those bloody Gremlins again....
[16:09] <jonsowman> i'll send an email round later saying "trust habhub.org/predict" for now until we work out what's going on
[16:09] <jonsowman> if anyone wants to have a go at debugging
[16:09] <jonsowman> please do
[16:09] <jonsowman> fsphil: you have access to the habhub server iirc?
[16:10] <UpuWork> [16:06] <Randomskk> rest assured we are putting our best people on it
[16:10] <UpuWork> I feel so reassurred :)
[16:10] <jonsowman> he means me.
[16:10] <UpuWork> is this actually sun spots ?
[16:11] <jonsowman> i probably won't have time for quite a while given my current work situation
[16:11] <jonsowman> anyway bbl
[16:12] <jonsowman> if anyone has any bright ideas, let me know...
[16:13] <fsphil> solar flares reflecting of venus
[16:13] <fsphil> jonsowman, I do have access yea
[16:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.boxford.co.uk/boxford/docs/products/rapid_content.htm
[16:17] <Laurenceb> genius
[16:20] <UpuWork> oh yeah I got the front panel for my antenna rotator "printed"
[16:20] <UpuWork> so I could mount an LCD in it
[16:20] <UpuWork> designed in Sketchup and posted off
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[16:33] <navrac> hi upuwork - are you he man to speak to about my launch coming up on on fldigi as a 23hz shift?
[16:34] <fsphil> bug in current dl-fldigi navrac
[16:34] <fsphil> you must be using a shift of 600?
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[16:34] <navrac> 312
[16:35] <fsphil> ah, non-standard shifts don't work on the old dl-fldigi
[16:36] <fsphil> well they work, just not with autoconfigure
[16:36] <navrac> ah ok - is there a newer version?
[16:37] <fsphil> not officially, there's an alpha test version floating about though I'm not sure I'd recommend it just yet
[16:37] <fsphil> are you able to adjust your shift?
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[16:38] <navrac> not really - its in multiples of 156hz
[16:38] <fsphil> 160hz might be close enough
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[17:03] <Hix> I just found Electrodroid fro android, it's agreat little app
[17:04] <Hix> Also does anyone have any recommendations for a circuit simulator, that would enable me to create and test virtual circuits as a learning tool?
[17:04] <fsphil> tis!
[17:04] <Hix> Cant really get away with a breadboard on my work desk :)
[17:06] <NigeyS> hix
[17:06] <NigeyS> http://www.5spice.com/download.htm
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[17:12] <Hix> NigeyS, Thanks for the linky
[17:21] <NigeyS> np :)
[17:21] <cuddykid> ISP programmer has arrived :D
[17:21] <cuddykid> just pcbs now...
[17:21] <NigeyS> yey
[17:22] <cuddykid> I thought it was pcbs as on the packaging it says "PCB boards" :(
[17:22] <cuddykid> and its from HK
[17:22] <NigeyS> lol awww
[17:22] <NigeyS> which programmer you get ?
[17:22] <cuddykid> urm
[17:23] <cuddykid> USBtinyISP
[17:23] <cuddykid> from DFRobot.com
[17:23] <cuddykid> ordered about 3 weeks ago
[17:23] <cuddykid> solder wire has arrived too :D
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[17:24] <NigeyS> oh cool, i got 1 of those, you get the kit form, or pre-assembled ?
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[17:36] <cuddykid> pre-assembled :)
[17:36] <cuddykid> NigeyS ^
[17:37] <cuddykid> very cheap too
[17:37] <NigeyS> yeah jus took a look, didnt know there was a smd version
[17:37] <NigeyS> http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/
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[17:39] <cuddykid> ooo
[17:39] <cuddykid> http://www.dfrobot.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=isp&product_id=405
[17:40] <NigeyS> slightly different eh hehe
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[18:16] <cuddykid> YAY! Free arduino pro mini :D
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[18:17] <nigelvh> Free?
[18:18] <nigelvh> I likes free
[18:18] <NigeyS> free is always good!
[18:18] <NigeyS> evening James
[18:18] <cuddykid> yar, one of my sponsors was happy so they're sending me a pro mini :D
[18:18] <nigelvh> Oh, so free for you, not free for us.
[18:18] <cuddykid> Robosavvy
[18:19] Action: fsphil had to do it the old way, with money
[18:19] <cuddykid> yeah
[18:19] <nigelvh> Damn
[18:19] <NigeyS> money, what's that?
[18:19] <nigelvh> Who is your sponsor, and what is your email address so I totally "won't" spoof it?
[18:19] <NigeyS> lol
[18:20] <cuddykid> I'll now have all the components for a pico tracker :D
[18:20] <cuddykid> lol nigelvh
[18:20] <fsphil> still not sure what I'm gonna do with it. it may end up being the most expensive flashing LED ever
[18:20] <nigelvh> I'm sure I could figure out how to make you a more expensive flashing led.
[18:21] <cuddykid> pending weather conditions - I'll be doing a solar balloon launch in April along with other flights (possibly night time launch, and initial glider testing)
[18:21] <nigelvh> Assuming cuddykid's sponsor is paying.
[18:21] <fsphil> yea!
[18:21] <cuddykid> lol
[18:22] <nigelvh> I dunno, there's gotta be some GPIO somewhere on a 32 core 128GB ram system.
[18:22] <cuddykid> it's being sent tomorrow - hopefully will arrive by sat so I can build it over weekend
[18:23] <nigelvh> If not, we'll make a USB flashing LED, and the system can be the "power supply"
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[19:20] <Adam_> Hello
[19:21] <Hibby> shhh, hide everyone, Adam_'s arrived!
[19:24] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:24] <jcoxon> no where to hide on irc
[19:25] <Hibby> hahah
[19:25] <Hibby> i know
[19:25] <Hibby> especially if you're a screen/irssi kiddie like me
[19:26] <x-f> you can run /away
[19:27] <Hibby> I hate away.
[19:27] <Hibby> but that's because I'm prejudiced./
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[19:29] <Adam_> This is my first venture back on to IRC after 11 years. I'm planning a HAB project and finding the GPS/radio side of things a little overwhelming.
[19:30] <Adam_> I have decided to buy and Arduino board and get myself up to speed with programming and electronics again (I haven't lifted a soldering iron in years and the last code I wrote was for Fortran 77!)
[19:31] <jcoxon> Adam_, well you've come to the right place
[19:31] <jcoxon> first question though - where are you based?
[19:31] <Adam_> I'm based in Walsall
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[19:31] <jcoxon> okay so UK
[19:32] <jcoxon> so aiming for licence exempt radio stuff then
[19:32] <Adam_> Yes, I should have mentioned that to start with as UKHAS seems to get launch info from everywhere now.
[19:32] <Morseman> I do so love it when I stop beating my head against a brick wall. It feels so much better...
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[19:33] <jcoxon> my suggestion is to take the ntx2 route for your radio
[19:33] <jcoxon> there are some guides on the wiki on how to interface it
[19:35] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[19:35] <Adam_> I have read the guides end-to-end and I have bookmarked over 50 project logs. I just need to take the plunge, buy the kit and start tinkering.
[19:35] <Adam_> The one concern I do have it the radio and getting a yaggi antenna.
[19:36] <jcoxon> oh i see
[19:36] <Morseman> To some of that seems like the easier bit Adam_ ;-)
[19:36] <Adam_> Are there any reasonably priced scanners which would be suitable for interface with a usb laptop sound card?
[19:36] <jcoxon> first of all i don't think the yagi is vital
[19:36] <Morseman> some of us that should say
[19:37] <jcoxon> a whip antenna will surfice especially if you launch in hte UK as others will track the launch as well
[19:37] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide#components
[19:37] <Morseman> Get a cheap SSB radio and an interface, or make one...
[19:38] <jcoxon> i recommend getting something like an ft790r off ebay
[19:38] <jcoxon> when they occasionally appear
[19:38] <jcoxon> old but solid
[19:38] <Adam_> I'm a little clueless when it comes to the radio and I only have £100-150 tops to spend on one.
[19:38] <cuddykid> if you don't have any of the components - the whole lot (to achieve a normal launch) will probably cost in the region of £400 on a budget :)
[19:39] <cuddykid> that's including the helium and balloon which are the most expensive bits apart from radio
[19:39] <Adam_> £400 is my budget at first ;-)
[19:39] <cuddykid> brilliant :)
[19:39] <cuddykid> "at first" - those famous words :P
[19:40] <jcoxon> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yaesu-FT-790R-70cms-Portable-All-Mode-S3354-/220971024079?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item3372e63ecf#ht_523wt_870
[19:40] <jcoxon> but just to warn thats quite expensive for that model
[19:40] <cuddykid> get an arduino, ntx2 and GPS (either uBlox or Lassen) and then you're well on your way
[19:40] <jcoxon> you'd usually look at 100GBP
[19:41] <Adam_> I would like to make this a regular thing but I need proof of concept first. @jcoxon: great minds think alike, I'd just found the same link. Thanks for the advice on price!
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[19:41] <Morseman> Audio interface circuits (recomend the isolated ones with audio transformers) http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=17673
[19:41] <jcoxon> but its an excellent radio
[19:42] <jcoxon> though remember you can't transmit with it unless you've got a amateur radio licence
[19:42] <Morseman> Or buy a readymade one like from http://www.g4zlp.co.uk/fb/fbdminterface/cfb.php?page=2
[19:42] <jcoxon> but doesn't mean you can't buy it and use it to receive
[19:42] <Adam_> Am I right in thinking that the Arduino uno and mega2560 do not have a compatible voltage (5V and 3.3V with <necessary mA capability) for the ublox?
[19:43] <cuddykid> Adam_: the easiest setup would be arduino uno + ntx2 + lassen iQ GPS
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[19:43] <jcoxon> Adam_, yes - watch voltages
[19:43] <jcoxon> most arduino boards are 5v
[19:44] <jcoxon> and gps modules are usually 3.3v
[19:44] <cuddykid> and -> yes, if you run off the 3v3 pin, but if you create a pot divider you should be fine
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[19:44] <nigelvh> Keep in mind the 3.3V pin on most arduinos are sourced off the FTDI chip, and can only supply something like 20ma
[19:44] <jcoxon> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/second_hand_yaesu_ft-790-p-1741.html
[19:45] <Adam_> The Pro mini has a 3.3V model that might work.
[19:45] <jcoxon> yes thats a good choice
[19:45] <Morseman> This one is marketed as a kit, but the design can be copied http://www.qsl.net/vu2upx/Projects/buildPSK.pdf
[19:46] <Adam_> Will the ft-790 work off 12V car or do I need an inverter?
[19:46] <navrac> several of ususe the pro-mini, lots of available code
[19:46] <jcoxon> i recommend sticking completely to 3.3v
[19:46] <Morseman> 790 works off 12V but the old MKI version had negative pin and positive outer!
[19:46] <navrac> ft290 is 12v - just pin is - not +ve on the connector
[19:46] <jcoxon> oh yes - i forgot about that madness
[19:47] <Morseman> It's marked on the case but has caught out many people...
[19:47] <navrac> I would agree - go 3.3v throughout - much easie to supply it
[19:47] <jcoxon> navrac, we need to switch to 1.8v
[19:47] <jcoxon> :-p
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[19:47] <navrac> yeah right.... 1.8V boost regulator?
[19:48] <jcoxon> well new ubloxes can do 1.8v
[19:48] <Morseman> Could use a rectifier (set of 4 diodes) so that it doesn't matter which way round it is as the diodes don't let the 'wrong' volts through, just adds a volt drop on the supply
[19:48] <navrac> oh i was going to email you some code - i'll do that while i remember - and someone else too, nut i forgot who it was
[19:49] <Hibby> Morseman: making a nice, accurate, minimal ripple rectifier is no fun though...
[19:49] <navrac> I apologise in advance for the poor quality of the code - I hate c and all its variants.
[19:49] <Hibby> especially when someone cleverer has done it in silicon for 40p unit cost
[19:50] <jcoxon> navrac, hehe
[19:50] <Morseman> I have a relay on my 10GHz transveter that stops the wrong polarity being applied - saved embarrasment a few times...
[19:50] <Hibby> hahah
[19:50] <jcoxon> pah
[19:50] <Hibby> that's not how real men do it!
[19:50] <Hibby> sparks must fly for it to be a manly project.
[19:50] <nigelvh> Magic smoke too
[19:50] <Hibby> oh, yes, very tru
[19:51] <navrac> I weighed my entire payload - all in with housing and string came to 25.5g
[19:51] <Morseman> Hibby I just use a packaged AC/DC rectifier unit - most radios have reasonable DC filters on V in anyway
[19:51] <jcoxon> nigelvh, got to prove that its got the magic in it
[19:51] <Hibby> damn keys. Been at this workstation too long :(
[19:51] <jcoxon> navrac, you win!
[19:51] <navrac> so ive added an extra aaa to bulk it out
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[19:51] <navrac> well it wont take long for someone to beat that
[19:52] <nigelvh> Yeah, you win. Most of the time I try to keep mine under a pound.
[19:52] <Adam_> Thanks for all of the advice guys. I'll look into a 3.3V build. I am aining to run all my sensors, gps and radio from one unit to save on batteries and therefore weight. Will the Arduino pro handle 2xtemp, humidity, pressure, gps and sd card logging?
[19:52] <Hibby> nigelvh: with the falling cost of components, that may be possible soon
[19:52] <jcoxon> nigelvh, welcome to the pico payload competition
[19:52] <navrac> i just pray the uplink works - the link seems good, but i have concerns about the receive sensitivity of the rfm
[19:53] <jcoxon> Adam_, could do
[19:53] <Hibby> anyhoo, enough crap from me. Time to leave the office.
[19:53] <Upu> hi Adam_
[19:53] <Adam_> Hi Upu
[19:53] <Upu> going to mail the list when they turn up but I have NTX2's in stock on the shop now
[19:53] <nigelvh> Mostly it's batteries, and cameras and transmitters and whatnot that bulk up my systems.
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[19:54] <navrac> the arduino pro wont have a problem with that
[19:54] <Adam_> Is there a good guide for building and attaching antennas at the payload side?
[19:54] <Morseman> There's a description of the method at http://www.edn.com/article/519663-Simple_reverse_polarity_protection_circuit_has_no_voltage_drop.php
[19:54] <Adam_> @navrac: good to know!
[19:54] <Upu> the antenna is fairly simple just a 1/4 wave one
[19:54] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/2010-09-03%2019-26-16_0003.jpg
[19:54] <nigelvh> Generally I just do a coaxial dipole
[19:55] <navrac> well the quater wave with 3 or 4 radials seem favourite - but personally I think the j pole is going to work better - I'll let you know on sunday
[19:56] <Morseman> There's a story that the only reason why the original 1/4 wave had more than one radial was that the client thought it 'looked more technical'...
[19:56] <nigelvh> That and the radiation pattern
[19:57] <Morseman> But then, a quarterwave with one radial is a dipole so they made up a T and that won through until people started messing with bending the radials down
[19:57] <Upu> navrac any details / code on the RFM22B transmission ?
[19:57] <Upu> I only really have tomorrow to make a circuit up
[19:57] <navrac> nope - i spent weeks at racal modelling quater waves and I learnt that the bigger the groudplane the better ad radials really are eeded - eve the they give a fairly yuk pattern
[19:57] <Morseman> Inverted T I meant
[19:58] <navrac> o hold onI'll do a quick pastebin of therfm code and wiring
[19:58] <Morseman> The bending is more to do with the input impedance really, rather than radiation angle
[19:58] <navrac> sorry the'n'key has flipped off the keyboard
[19:59] <nigelvh> You could always just drag a big nasty colinear vertical from the bottom of your balloon.
[19:59] <Morseman> When we all started to get hung up on the 50 ohm idea...
[19:59] <nigelvh> That can't weigh much.
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[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:00] <Morseman> You can make lightweight colinears, on 70cm a couple of 'elelments' and a small coil would do, or a hair pin match between the two
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[20:01] <nigelvh> No, can't possibly be as good as the 20' base station vertical colinear you've got mounted on the tower.
[20:02] <Morseman> Something like this (and you might not need all the radials either) http://nandustips.blogspot.com/2011/04/ground-plane-for-70-cm.html
[20:03] <navrac> http://pastebin.com/QMEsLCGg nice and simple uplink code with connection diagram
[20:03] <navrac> I'll email the pc app in a minute
[20:03] <nigelvh> Anyway, it's lunch time. I'll catch you all in a bit.
[20:03] <navrac> I had to cut the fancy code out as it was too buggy
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[20:06] <jcoxon> so what are we going to try and uplink?
[20:06] <jcoxon> callsigns?
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[20:07] <Upu> me I think
[20:07] <Upu> subject to being able to get a working circuit in time
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu, sorry I wasn't here yesterday, was the final day before the exam today
[20:07] <Upu> no problems lunar
[20:07] <navrac> callsign+message counter+free text of 12 chars
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[20:09] <Morseman> Off to get a Birriani takeaway and a Nan bread!
[20:09] <jcoxon> navrac, exciting
[20:09] <BrainDamage> nan? not a number?
[20:10] <navrac> well i hope it works - ive made a 4 ele 459meg yagi - but i live in a valley so not too hopefull.
[20:10] <Upu> Going to use a diamond 10 ele
[20:10] <jcoxon> Upu, just to say i put that pico gps outside and got a lock in under a minute
[20:10] <RocketBoy> 459MHz?
[20:10] <jcoxon> with 180deg view only
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> Upu yea but it was worth it, got an 1.3 which is about an A :)
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> in grades
[20:10] <Upu> jcoxon it seems to prefer to be vertical I think
[20:10] <navrac> but the signal strength indicater shows if the datasheet is to be believed 100km should be possible
[20:10] <Upu> nice one Lunar_Lander :)
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I got to talk about one of the coolest topics of atomic physics
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> lasers
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:11] <navrac> yep i got the same jcoxon - very fast lock with poor visibility]
[20:12] <jcoxon> Upu as in flat or side on
[20:12] <jcoxon> ?
[20:12] <Upu> no vertical but it is an omni antenna
[20:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] NTX2's in stock"
[20:12] <Upu> so it should work anyway up
[20:13] <Upu> seems to be a little less sensitive than a Sarantel
[20:13] <Upu> but that ublox chip seems to be quite epic at getting a lock
[20:13] <Upu> When I get a moment I'm going to put one on the old ISM300 chip to see the difference
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[20:26] <NigeyS> upu you refering to the chip antenna ?
[20:26] <Upu> yes
[20:26] <NigeyS> oki
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[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello NigeyS
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[20:33] <F5MVO> Good evening all
[20:33] <Upu> Evening
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> Upu tomorrow I'll solder the headers to the GPS
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[20:42] <Upu> let me know how you get on with it
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> and then order the 3.3V arduino
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> I saw that the mini is now available with a USB port
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> but only a 5V version
[20:49] <navrac> jcoxon - did you get my email?
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[20:53] <jcoxon> navrac, yup
[20:53] <jcoxon> windows?
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[20:54] <navrac> oh sorry!
[20:54] <jcoxon> i'll make my own!
[20:56] <navrac> its easy enough - send chammel id (3-8) or 2 as an int to send on all freq, followed by callsign (6chars)+:+message no as chars+: +message 12 chars
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[20:56] <navrac> 2 mins programming
[20:56] <navrac> I cut the facy stuff out
[20:56] <navrac> fancy even
[20:58] <navrac> in reality the payload just puts the whole thing out as a string
[20:58] <navrac> oh terminated by a *
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[21:01] <navrac> http://pastebin.com/1HCr4BJN is the source for ozzie1
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[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[21:41] <daveake> LO
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> had my atomic physics exam today
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> got a 1.3 as a grade
[21:44] <nigelvh> That seems like a rather arbitrary scale by the way.
[21:44] <nigelvh> Also good job. I recall you mentioning earlier that's like an A
[21:45] <daveake> Not a percentage then :p Good :-)
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> well, there is 1.0 and then the steps are .3, .7, then 2.0
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> down to 4.0
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> which is E
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> and 5.0 is equal to F
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[21:47] <daveake> cool
[21:47] <nigelvh> That is about the strangest scale I've heard of.
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea, that A to F is the ECTS scale
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> some european thing
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> but I got to talk about lasers
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:48] <nigelvh> Yeah, Where I come from bigger numbers are better.
[21:48] <nigelvh> Also there is no E.
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:49] <nigelvh> See, your score would be like a 3.7 on a 4.0 scale
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> so ours is inverse
[21:50] <nigelvh> Yeah, and offset by one, because you said 5.0 is a fail.
[21:51] <nigelvh> See, when you first mentioned it, I figured that 1.3 was a pretty bad grade, but everyone did poorly, so it was graded on a curve, so you got an A.
[21:52] <Morseman> No more wierd than 2:2 2:1 etc. ;-)
[21:52] <nigelvh> I like the Good Job! / You Suck! grading scale.
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[21:57] <staylo> So to summarise, on a scale of 1 to 5 you're a 1.3? :)
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea, with 1 being the best result
[21:57] <staylo> Bah, spoils the joke :) congrats btw
[21:58] <Morseman> I think we should grade results as colours ;-)
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD thanks
[21:58] <Morseman> After all, colours are natural, numbers are man made...
[21:59] <Morseman> That usually winds up the Physisists and Mathematicions...
[21:59] <nigelvh> He got a mauve score
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:59] <nigelvh> Or perhaps RGB hex codes
[21:59] <Morseman> and the extra letters are not a mistake as that then winds up the English students ;-)
[22:00] <nigelvh> #CC8833
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:00] <Morseman> Of course there are only 10 types of people in the world...
[22:00] <nigelvh> 00101010
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[22:03] <Morseman> Once tried to explain "A" "B" and why 10 wasn't ten in base 12 to a non-engineer, he just kept saying "but A isn't a number and ten is 10"
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[22:05] <Morseman> It's like explaining Power Factor and kVA to a factory owner as well...
[22:06] <Morseman> I really should have tried harder to understand HEX programming, it would be so useful for these sorts of projects
[22:07] <nigelvh> Well, it's just your machine instructions, so memorize all those, then get really good at reading hex numbers.
[22:07] <nigelvh> No problem at all.
[22:07] <Morseman> A mate of mine found it dead easy, but I kept forgetting the carry and how to move stuff in and out of a FIFO stack and special registers seemed like cheating to me
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[22:08] <Morseman> I'd have been useless at Verb and Noun programing, we'd have been on Mars early ;-)
[22:08] <nigelvh> To be honest, I've never done any of it, so you're a better man than I
[22:09] <nigelvh> I'm happy with my high level languages
[22:09] <Morseman> I was 16 at the time, in 78 and we were using big boards with red LCD displays and you had to get a certain number to come up. It never did and I couldn't see why it mattered. ;-)
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[22:11] <Morseman> I was a heavy current engineer, destined to be operating 11kV to 132kV switches which were still oil filled at that time...
[22:12] <Morseman> Any electronics we left to Ferranti to design and install. Yes, I'm nearly "that" old...
[22:12] <navrac> about the same age as me then..
[22:13] <Morseman> Oh, and ferrite core based computers were still in use by Birmingham Control at Summer Lane - I wonder what happened to all those ferrites?
[22:13] <Morseman> Nice to know I'm not alone navrac :-)
[22:13] <navrac> I got a load of them, parents binned them in the end
[22:14] <nigelvh> Yeah, I came round a bit after that.
[22:15] <navrac> I worked on a pdp11/34 that had its memory upgraded from a massive 32k to 64K and disk drives were real disk drives - needed two people to carry them
[22:16] <nigelvh> I was 16 in 2005.
[22:16] <navrac> youngster..
[22:16] <Morseman> Are there any 'simple' projects that a novice to PIC programming can try that would help with HAB available? I have a Micro=PIC programmer but got distracted by developing my microwave gear after I bought it
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Well - you can do a PIC payload quite easily.
[22:17] <nigelvh> I use the atmels but generally throw a gps on there, and a radio transmitter. Those are a couple good places to start.
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> I'ts just readinf grom GPS, parsing it a bit, and spitting out a serial port, optionallt reading some other values too
[22:17] <Morseman> I used to get a clip round the ear when older engineers were looking at photos of replacing mains cables in B'ham in the 60s and I said that I was about 4 at that time. How the boot moves to the other foot
[22:18] <nigelvh> I've been doing packet, and rtty on my stuff
[22:18] <Morseman> SpeedEvil any links to potential projects please?
[22:18] <nigelvh> Both relatively easy as far as tone generation goes.
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[22:19] <Morseman> Packet I can receive, so if I could make up a small TX that is able to teach me something that would be interesting
[22:20] <Morseman> APRS I can do as well
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[22:20] <nigelvh> Here's some code I did in the arduino environment to transmit APRS.
[22:20] <nigelvh> https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ARDUINO_PACKET.txt
[22:21] <nigelvh> It would take a bit of modification to get it to work on a pic
[22:21] <fsphil-laptop> reminds me, I've got some aprs code I need to clean up
[22:21] <nigelvh> Also, here's the blog post about it. https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/?p=95
[22:21] <nigelvh> Gives a bit of background and the parts used.
[22:22] <Morseman> TinyGPS I recognise from Amateur Radio APRS
[22:22] <nigelvh> Yeah.
[22:22] <nigelvh> At some point I'll probably make my own GPS library, but for now his works pretty decent.
[22:23] <Morseman> The most construction I've done for APRS was a 3 port unit to interface a radio and GPS and AX:25 packet modem but that was just point to point wiring
[22:24] <Morseman> I have done other construction for QRP and transveters for various bands
[22:24] <fsphil-laptop> aprs is actually pretty simple, it's just really odd
[22:24] <nigelvh> Yeah, if you look at the pictures, I've got a micro there, connected to a MX614 to generate the tones, connected to a bit of output stuff, which connects via that cable to my handheld.
[22:24] <nigelvh> Not too much going on
[22:25] <fsphil-laptop> I get the impression it was a format that was hacked together and made up as they went along
[22:25] <nigelvh> Yeah, there are certainly some oddities.
[22:26] <nigelvh> Transmits these bytes LSB first, then those ones MSB first, then send those two bytes in reverse order
[22:26] <fsphil-laptop> the bytes in the callsign are shifted one bit
[22:26] <nigelvh> Yeah
[22:26] <fsphil-laptop> that just makes no sense
[22:27] <nigelvh> Though, that's not APRS's fault, that's AX.25's fault
[22:27] <Morseman> The GPS units were some OEM boards from a co called Aisian (or something like) the mods kept coming unsoldered!
[22:27] <fsphil-laptop> ah
[22:27] <Morseman> I may still have them somewhere, wonder if the guts would be any use?
[22:27] <nigelvh> APRS sits happily in the info (and a small bit in the callsign fields).
[22:28] <nigelvh> Any parts can be useful
[22:28] <nigelvh> Finding them again can be difficult though...
[22:28] <Morseman> I dabbled in TCPIP over VHF/UHF - now that "was" a solitary hoby...
[22:28] <fsphil-laptop> oh I did that Morseman
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> was able to browse some simple pages on my web server via 2m
[22:29] <Morseman> fsphil-laptop back in DOS 6 that was!
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> verrry slooowly
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> ah, this was a few months ago :)
[22:29] <Morseman> I was the only one with an IP address in my area!
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[22:29] <nigelvh> Reminds me of a server I wrote for back when I had an unlimited texting plan but no data on my phone. I could text my server, it would download a web page, then text me the info from the page back.
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> given that I receive about 10 APRS packets per week (on a good week), I'm not even going to bother with doing proper IP
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> cunning nigelvh
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello fsphil-laptop
[22:31] <nigelvh> I run an APRS iGate at my house, hundreds of packets a day.
[22:31] <oh7lzb> for a while I had an APRS digipeater set up in a location which was a bit hard to access.. digi_ned on top of a linux box (with flash disk and no moving parts), and I was worried I might have to tune the configuration a bit after leaving the site
[22:31] <oh7lzb> so I set up an IP address on the kernel ax.25 interface and left sshd up
[22:31] <nigelvh> http://aprs.fi/gated/K7NVH-1
[22:32] <nigelvh> I'm conveniently on the top of a hill
[22:32] <oh7lzb> It sure was handy, I did fix a couple things afterwards, although veeeryyyy slowly :)
[22:32] <fsphil-laptop> I did ssh too, that's also slow :)
[22:32] <Morseman> I can send some APRS if you like - not tonight as just off to eat tea
[22:32] <fsphil-laptop> (though not on the air, if anyone from ofcom is reading)
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> hi oh7lzb
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> how is Finland today?
[22:32] <oh7lzb> But hey! I did try 1.2 GHz D-Start data just a week ago, and uploaded a video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1CL8qvHWNE
[22:32] <fsphil-laptop> I don't have the gate running anymore
[22:33] <oh7lzb> D-Star data (DD, 128 Kbit/s)
[22:33] <Morseman> Back in a bit unless the cold kicks in again
[22:33] <fsphil-laptop> angry birds
[22:33] <oh7lzb> it was usable! Perfectly fine for ssh, a bit slow for web
[22:33] <nigelvh> Better than dial up
[22:33] <jonsowman> http://hexoc.com/u/joey-m-brd.png
[22:33] <jonsowman> comments? suggestions?
[22:33] <jonsowman> :)
[22:33] <oh7lzb> Finland's fine, got good aurora going on and 50 MHz is active
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> that's not bad!
[22:34] <oh7lzb> but it's getting late, should be in bed already
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> there's people on 50mhz?
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> visible aurora?
[22:34] <oh7lzb> yup
[22:34] <Upu> looks great Jon only thing I would change is I won't bother making the Sarantel dead center, I'd have he RF in straight
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> cloudy here
[22:34] <Upu> doubt it would make much difference
[22:34] <nigelvh> jonsowman, looks pretty good, you're increasing both your x and y dimensions though with the tabs, which will cost more. Perhaps move them to one side of the corners.
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> oh7lzb: COOL
[22:35] Action: fsphil-laptop has a scan around 50mhz
[22:35] <jonsowman> nigelvh: yeah it fits in 50x50mm which is my only criterion really
[22:35] <nigelvh> Works for me
[22:35] <Upu> preety small
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> lets make a contest who makes the smallest/lightest computer
[22:35] <jonsowman> Upu: deciding whether my OCD can deal with that :P
[22:36] <jonsowman> it's like 40x50mm
[22:36] <Upu> yeah it may not be pretty
[22:36] <oh7lzb> Our 1.2 GHz band is pretty quiet (like everything above 70cm) so would be good to put some data in there
[22:36] <Upu> but straight is better i think
[22:36] <jonsowman> you're right
[22:37] <Upu> and the FTDI connector
[22:37] <fsphil-laptop> not hearing much on 6m, though more noise than usual
[22:37] <jonsowman> what about it Upu?
[22:37] <Upu> will the ICSP plug go on when something is plugged into BLK ?
[22:37] <jonsowman> oh i see
[22:37] <jonsowman> hmm good point
[22:37] <jonsowman> i'll shift it up a bit just in case
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[22:38] <fsphil-laptop> oh, I can hear something like a whistle
[22:38] <daveake> tinnitus?
[22:39] <nigelvh> *whistle*
[22:39] <Upu> what you're hearing is the faint sound of previous fail : http://i.imgur.com/AijHk.jpg
[22:39] <fsphil-laptop> it was only slightly failed
[22:39] <Upu> it worked
[22:39] <Upu> just :)
[22:39] <daveake> :)
[22:40] <jonsowman> Upu: moved the ftdi up, ta
[22:40] <Upu> nps
[22:41] Nick change: MLow -> MLow-werk
[22:42] <Upu> if anyone missed that Orbit program I have it in 3D
[22:42] <Upu> err
[22:42] <Upu> HD
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[22:49] <richardf> Hi all, what method do people use to convert from 5v to 3.3v? Looking at various methods including resistor dividers and an LDO
[22:50] <nigelvh> Depends on what you want to power.
[22:50] <richardf> Reading from gps 3.3v to arduino which is running at 5v
[22:51] <daveake> <soapbox>Consider using a 3.3V Arduino</soapbox>
[22:52] <daveake> But yeah an LDO will do the power from 5V to 3,3V
[22:52] <nigelvh> You can also use a resistor divider for the data lines
[22:52] <daveake> Data GPS --> Arduno is direct
[22:52] <richardf> I think I would have matched the processor and gps unit correctly at the start with hindsight
[22:52] <nigelvh> Don't power the GPS off a resistor divider though
[22:53] <daveake> If you need to send from Arduino --> GPS (depends on the model - some you do some you don't) use a resistor network
[22:53] <nigelvh> The arduino can handle a 3.3V input, so all you need to do is bring the output from the arduino down a little.
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: what does soapbox mean :)?
[22:53] <nigelvh> His opinion
[22:53] <daveake> It's something to stand on when you are preaching to a crowd :D
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah I know that
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> lol why do I now think of Doc Brown from back to the future
[22:54] <nigelvh> To summarize, GPS -> Arduino straight through, Arduino -> GPS use a resistor divider. Power the GPS with a regulator
[22:55] <richardf> There's not enough power coming off the arduino (think about 50mA need 150). Will power it separately for now
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[22:55] <daveake> Indeed.
[22:55] <nigelvh> Exactly
[22:55] <daveake> richardf Which GPS?
[22:56] <richardf> It's the ublox, upu kindly soldered it for me!
[22:56] <daveake> OK, you do need to send from Arduino to GPS then
[22:58] <richardf> Thanks daveake, just looking at the data sheet now
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[23:12] <schofieldau> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-Pro-Mini-3-3V-8MHz-MEGA328P-2-Breakaway-40-Pins-header-/220912036918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336f622c36#ht_2152wt_1110
[23:12] <schofieldau> thoughts on that?
[23:12] <schofieldau> for use with u-blox GPS and radiometrix ntx2
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[23:15] <richardf> Newbie question - how is it programmed?
[23:16] Martin_100 (~Martin@78-105-240-247.zone3.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[23:16] <schofieldau> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FTDI-Basic-Breakout-Arduino-USB-TTL-6-PIN-3-3-5V-With-Free-USB-Cable-/220919297554?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336fd0f612#ht_1990wt_1110 I think that this would do it but I'm not 100%
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[23:21] <richardf> Was trying not to buy another processor, but it's looking the most straight forward way
[23:21] <richardf> And they're pretty cheap too
[23:22] <schofieldau> richardf: have you launched before?
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[23:23] <richardf> No, still getting to grips with the electronics
[23:23] <schofieldau> same
[23:23] <schofieldau> I'm off shall be back on later
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[23:23] <richardf> Got the ntx transmitting, now trying to get some useful data
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[23:30] <schofieldau> or sooner as it would appear
[23:30] <schofieldau> hey again
[23:32] <richardf> Hi there
[23:32] <richardf> Have you got a launch planned then?
[23:32] <schofieldau> Loosely
[23:32] <schofieldau> Starting from scratch
[23:32] <schofieldau> so I'm ordering the parts at the moment
[23:33] <richardf> I keep ordering more and more parts too!
[23:33] <schofieldau> hoping for some time in the next few months
[23:33] <schofieldau> haha I've only actually placed an order on my radio module (NTX2)
[23:34] <schofieldau> I'm doing it on a very tight budget
[23:34] <schofieldau> so loads of research
[23:34] <schofieldau> making sure I get the right stuff the first time around
[23:35] <richardf> The seemed pretty easy to connect up
[23:35] <schofieldau> the rf module?
[23:35] <richardf> Sorry NTX2 I mean
[23:35] <schofieldau> yeah
[23:35] <schofieldau> are you getting one?
[23:35] <richardf> What processor?
[23:36] <richardf> I've got the ntx2 setup
[23:36] <schofieldau> ah cool
[23:36] <schofieldau> I'm getting an arduino pro mini clone from ebay
[23:36] <richardf> There's some good documentation on the ukhas website
[23:36] <schofieldau> 8mhz/3.3
[23:37] <schofieldau> yeah I saw that guide looks pretty easy
[23:37] <richardf> Good choice, it's voltage is matched with the gps then
[23:37] <schofieldau> yep got that advice from here
[23:38] <Darkside> speaking of gps, still need to test the one i have sitting on my desk
[23:38] <schofieldau> hey Darkside
[23:38] <Darkside> yo
[23:39] <richardf> Hi
[23:39] <schofieldau> Darkside: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-Pro-Mini-3-3V-8MHz-MEGA328P-2-Breakaway-40-Pins-header-/220912036918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336f622c36#ht_2152wt_1110
[23:39] <schofieldau> that's okay right?
[23:39] <schofieldau> waiting on response from seller
[23:39] <schofieldau> about express shipping
[23:39] <schofieldau> because 7-25 business days doesn't sound too attractive
[23:40] <Darkside> yeah i'm sure thats fine
[23:40] <Darkside> though you'll need the ftdi cable too
[23:40] <schofieldau> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FTDI-Basic-Breakout-Arduino-USB-TTL-6-PIN-3-3-5V-With-Free-USB-Cable-/220919297554?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336fd0f612#ht_1990wt_1110
[23:40] <Darkside> looks good
[23:42] <richardf> Ok, my batteries are dying, so im off for the night. Bye
[23:42] <schofieldau> bye richard
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[23:43] <schofieldau> what size cylinders do you typically get of helium for horus launches?
[23:45] <Darkside> depends on the balloon
[23:45] <Darkside> usually 3.6m^3
[23:45] <Darkside> but those are huge
[23:47] <schofieldau> got a quote from BOC
[23:47] <schofieldau> and they stock sizes CV, D, E, G
[23:49] <Darkside> hrmm
[23:49] <Darkside> i dunno what the sizes mean
[23:51] <priyesh> NigeyS: hey - on that antenna you sent, which side is 'up'?
[23:51] <NigeyS> the side with the metal blob
[23:52] jakr (~nofreewil@unaffiliated/jakr) joined #highaltitude.
[23:52] <priyesh> NigeyS: so writing faces downwards?
[23:52] <NigeyS> *checks*
[23:53] <NigeyS> the bit with the blob and G187 writtin on you need that facing skywards
[23:53] <NigeyS> written*
[23:54] <priyesh> yep - got it!
[23:54] <priyesh> thanks :)
[23:54] <NigeyS> np :)
[23:54] <priyesh> will make ground plane for it tomorrow
[23:55] <schofieldau> anybody have suggestions for what kind of antenna I should use?
[23:55] <schofieldau> or what have worked for others in the past
[23:56] <NigeyS> 1/4 wave
[23:56] <schofieldau> is that for transmission on the payload?
[23:57] nigelvh (45a4a77e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.164.167.126) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[00:00] --- Fri Mar 9 2012