highaltitude.log.20120303

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[08:28] <Upu> morning
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[08:32] <daveake> morning
[08:33] <daveake> Upu Just looking at power options for keeping the weight down on my tracker using your breakout
[08:33] <Upu> ok
[08:34] <daveake> Was going to use a single AA, but the step-up efficiency then is 60% and it's slightly doubtful (from the data sheet) that it will manage the full current
[08:34] <Upu> jcoxon uses a single AAA on his ?
[08:34] <daveake> But 2 AAAs the efficiency jumps from 60% to 85%
[08:34] <daveake> Well, my calc says 5 hours from 1 AAA
[08:34] <daveake> Which for a pico flight is a bit marginal as the flight could easily be 4 hours
[08:35] <daveake> Anyway, best thing is to measure it, so I'll do that over the weekend
[08:36] <daveake> Also I think jcoxon dowes some power saving on the ublox
[08:36] <Upu> let me show you something
[08:36] <daveake> ooer
[08:37] <Upu> 30mm x 50mm http://i.imgur.com/nHvvW.png
[08:37] <Upu> just a first stab ait it
[08:37] <daveake> What goes on it?
[08:37] <Upu> now I was considering making a board with some Keystone 82 battery clips on it
[08:38] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/keystone/82/clip-battery-snap-in-aaa-pk5/dp/908721?Ntt=Keystone+82
[08:38] <Upu> so you just clip in a battery and go
[08:38] <daveake> nice
[08:38] <daveake> For light payloads I've been soldering mine on
[08:38] <Upu> well trying to make it as robust as possible
[08:38] <daveake> of course
[08:39] <Upu> GPS and radio is on the flip side
[08:39] <Upu> but this obviously doesn't work if 1 AAA isn't enough
[08:39] <daveake> Nope
[08:39] <daveake> What step-up?
[08:39] <Upu> err the 200mA one
[08:39] <Upu> NCP1402 ?#
[08:39] <daveake> Ah, different
[08:39] <daveake> This is the NCP1400A
[08:40] <Upu> thats only 100mA I think
[08:40] <daveake> Which is 100mA
[08:40] <daveake> yep
[08:40] <daveake> And derates with low i/p voltage
[08:40] <Upu> might be a bit marginal
[08:40] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Fwd: OTMS Balloon launch announcement"
[08:40] <daveake> I think I said that :)
[08:40] <Upu> http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=NCP1402
[08:41] <daveake> OK, take a look at the datasheet page 5 bottom-left chart
[08:41] <griffonbot> Received email: NickB "[UKHAS] Re: Falcon - Launch Annauncement"
[08:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Bob McNair "Re: [UKHAS] Digest for ukhas@googlegroups.com - 11 Messages in 2 Topics"
[08:42] <daveake> The AAA will be running from 1.7V-ish full charge down to 1V flat
[08:42] <Upu> yeah
[08:42] <Upu> Ta=25'C :)
[08:43] <daveake> Indeed
[08:43] <daveake> At low temps the Lithiums drop voltage so the switcher efficiency will get worse
[08:43] <daveake> The same chart for the 1400A is worse, btw
[08:44] <Upu> think you could offset the current use with a small solar panel ? :)
[08:44] <daveake> So I think for a good part of the flight it'd be down at 60% efficiency
[08:45] <daveake> I was wondering about that. Not sure how to get the best out of the solar cell (i.e. using solar when available and dropping back to Lithium when not)
[08:45] <Upu> http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/prod/538/powerfilm-mp337-50ma-3v-mini-solar-panel
[08:45] <daveake> 1.2g wow
[08:46] <daveake> That looks very interesting
[08:46] <Upu> > Please note, these modules do not have a UV-stabilized surface. <
[08:46] <daveake> Like we'd care :)
[08:46] <Upu> back in 5
[08:46] <Upu> lol
[08:53] <Upu> yeah interested
[08:54] <Upu> totally solar powered ? :)
[08:54] <daveake> I think the processor would be resetting every time the thing swung away from seeing the sun
[08:54] <daveake> A supercap might well be enough to fix that though
[08:56] <daveake> Perhaps put it in parallel with the battery, with low-drop blocking diodes
[08:57] <Upu> some ideas indeed
[08:57] <daveake> I think a purchase and a play then :)
[08:57] <Upu> be interested to see how it works
[08:57] <Upu> just googling stuff now
[09:02] <Upu> can't seem to find anything on using non-rechargable in conjunction with a solar
[09:03] <daveake> Probably because you shouldn't :-). That said, since the current draw is always going to be greater than that delivered solar cell, liver dangerously ... :p
[09:03] <daveake> (by the) solar cell
[09:04] <daveake> live
[09:04] <Upu> well this hobby isn't exactly about operating in the normal limits is it
[09:04] <daveake> nope
[09:04] <Upu> right back in a bit
[09:04] <daveake> Beasides, is a Lithium really going to pop from the odd few mA charge current?
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[09:16] <daveake> Well, NASA have tested charging primary Lithium (LiFe2) cells at 20mA for 6 hours ... http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZwD8uTpXet4C&pg=PA516&lpg=PA516&dq=nasa+lithium+iron+disulfide&source=bl&ots=l_lbu3l5fy&sig=3c2cBvA0ifgzQVzHhFdlok1tW44&hl=en&ei=az6qTvmYE6Hj0QHr3vnNDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=nasa%20lithium%20iron%20disulfide&f=false
[09:18] <fsphil> ooh HF flight
[09:19] <fsphil> yikes, who emails docx files to a mailing list
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[09:52] <natrium42> guise & gals
[09:52] <Upu> hola
[09:52] <Upu> more quadcopter crazyness http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_sUeGC-8dyk
[09:52] <daveake> Ah yeah, saw that via FB this morning
[09:52] <natrium42> seen it, awesome
[09:52] <daveake> yep
[09:53] <Upu> Pulp Shakespear ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dfLkcTAR80&feature=player_embedded
[09:53] <Upu> afk making a brew
[09:56] <daveake> mile + 1 sugar in mine please
[09:56] <daveake> -e +k
[09:56] <Upu> too slow
[09:56] <daveake> dammit
[09:56] <daveake> We're out of milk you see
[09:57] <daveake> Upu supercap http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eecrg0v105h/capacitor-1f-3-6v-horizontal/dp/1550077
[09:57] <Upu> ee
[09:57] <Upu> [09:57] <daveake> Upu supercap http://uk.fa
[09:57] <Upu> err
[09:57] <daveake> eh?
[09:57] <Upu> Operating Temperature Min: -25°C
[09:57] <daveake> Limits, pah
[09:58] <daveake> It'd be OK for pico tho
[09:58] <Upu> aye
[09:59] <fsphil> what's so super about a super cap?
[09:59] <daveake> very high density
[09:59] <fsphil> ah
[10:00] <daveake> Like, 1 farad in a coin-sized cap
[10:00] <daveake> Thick coin mind :)
[10:01] <daveake> We were talking about a battery-less solar-cell payload. You'd want the cap to maintain the tracker current whilse the cell swings away from a direct view of the sun
[10:01] <fsphil> definitely yea
[10:03] <daveake> The data sheet is a bit short on detail. Says max "recommended" current draw of 20mA, but would it be OK at 60mA say for a typical tracker?
[10:04] <daveake> I think that since the solar cell will always be delivering something, this cap would be fine. But I guess I just have to try it :)
[10:06] <daveake> Problem would be if it landed upside down.
[10:06] <fsphil> two cells
[10:07] <fsphil> though not if you're trying to keep down weight
[10:07] <daveake> Well I am, but they weigh 1.5g :)
[10:07] <fsphil> ah sweet
[10:07] <fsphil> then two
[10:07] <daveake> http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/prod/538/powerfilm-mp337-50ma-3v-mini-solar-panel#document
[10:08] <fsphil> they'll need diode to stop the cells sinking power from the capacitor
[10:08] <fsphil> when the cell isn't in the sun
[10:08] <daveake> yep
[10:08] <daveake> schottky ~0.3V drop
[10:08] <fsphil> perfect
[10:09] <Upu> fsphil
[10:09] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[10:09] <Upu> does the full details link for LEO-1 work ?
[10:09] <fsphil> I had my payload running from solar (without GPS or camera) -- it worked but with the varying voltage, the NTX2 was all over the place
[10:10] <daveake> "unable to find the document"
[10:10] <Upu> pah
[10:10] <Upu> thx
[10:10] <fsphil> Upu, asking me to login
[10:10] <fsphil> google docs never works for me
[10:11] <Upu> https://docs.google.com/document/d/10Dfeu-PS_HTzFAvvcVhk9o4XwZ8Ui_hlQyeAdLO339M/edit ?
[10:11] <fsphil> that works (after logging in)
[10:11] <Upu> ta
[10:12] <fsphil> I'll have a listen for the 20m signal
[10:12] <Upu> indeed
[10:13] <Upu> think my wire on a paper clip will get it ? :)
[10:13] <daveake> I was about to ask what I'd need :)
[10:13] <fsphil> better odds than me probably :)
[10:13] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/hf_am_I_doin_it_rite.JPG
[10:13] <fsphil> 817 + long wire
[10:13] <fsphil> + luck
[10:14] <daveake> lol
[10:14] <daveake> No 817, just a scanner
[10:14] <fsphil> if it can do USB on 14 mhz then yea that'll work
[10:14] <daveake> yep
[10:16] <fsphil> I just tend to hear noise on 14mhz -- but sometimes it gets pretty busy
[10:16] <fsphil> lots of sstv on a good day
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[10:17] <daveake> Hrum ... very noisy
[10:19] <fsphil> 14.230 mhz is where the sstv usually is, but if you can't hear voice you probably won't hear that
[10:20] <fsphil> PSK31 and RTTY usually comes through better
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[10:27] <cuddykid> no prizes for guessing where my HK parcel still is.. :(
[10:27] <cuddykid> anyone have a guided missile/HAB ? :P
[10:30] <Upu> hey cuddykid I paid for UPS delivery this time round
[10:36] <fsphil> that's awful
[10:36] <fsphil> no chance of getting a refund?
[10:37] <Upu> hmm ?
[10:37] <Upu> I got them in the end
[10:37] <Upu> but you never quite know where they are
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[11:31] <cuddykid> Upu: that's a good idea :) how much did it cost extra?
[11:31] <cuddykid> fsphil: apparently I have to wait 30 days :(
[11:31] <cuddykid> so annoying though!
[11:31] <cuddykid> I'm looking to launch in around a month
[11:31] <cuddykid> going to start construction on the new payload box this weekend hopefully
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[11:42] <Upu> it was more than the pcbs cuddykid :)
[11:44] <navrac> hi upu - just got back to find a 'we could not deliver as we needed a signature card' - I guess thats going to be the pcb's and chips - thanks
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[11:45] <Upu> hey navrac
[11:46] <Upu> no probs sorry it needed a sig
[11:46] <navrac> no problem, hopefully I'll get it tuesday and I can do a launch at the weekend
[11:46] <fsphil> ooh launch
[11:47] <Upu> one tomorrow
[11:48] <fsphil> there's Bill's today, who's launching tomorrow?
[11:48] <Upu> Steve
[11:48] <navrac> just a pico flight testing the rfm22b working as a downlink tx and uplink RX. If anyone has an arduino + rfm22 and some form of aerial (432mhz will probably do) people can tx to it and it will reply on trhe downlink
[11:48] <fsphil> oh yes
[11:49] <Upu> interesting
[11:49] <Upu> I have some RFm22B breakout boards coming btw
[11:49] <fsphil> not going to get high enough for me I suspect :)
[11:49] <fsphil> that'd be cool though, relay a message from here to holland or france
[11:50] <navrac> probably not going to get that high as its only on a 3 foot silver job
[11:50] <fsphil> yea
[11:50] <fsphil> unless it floats, and the wind just happens to be going north west
[11:53] <navrac> to be honest I doubt it will have more than 100miles uplink range, although could be lucky if one were to slightly ignore the uplink power limits
[11:57] <fsphil> the atmosphere can do weird things to a signal, make it seem stronger than it really is :)
[11:58] <Upu> "woo woo"
[11:58] <fsphil> lol
[11:58] <Upu> ok afk dog walk
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[12:23] <Laurenceb_> rfm22b should be interesting
[12:23] <Laurenceb_> im betting it picks up too much interference
[12:23] <Darkside> i'm thinking its going to need a bandpass filter in front of it
[12:25] <cuddykid> a reliable uplink would be a huge leap forward for our flights
[12:26] <Darkside> yup
[12:27] <Darkside> but yeah, the issue is will the receiver get overloaded
[12:27] <Darkside> and what do you use to transmit
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[12:43] <cuddykid> surely the rfms should be able to pick up rtty sent out from 817s or the likes at high power?
[12:43] <cuddykid> with maybe a directional dish?
[12:45] <Darkside> yeah ite generating the rtty
[12:45] <Darkside> well, FSK
[12:45] <cuddykid> ahh yes
[12:45] <Darkside> the RFM22Bs dont seem to go below 1.5kbaud
[12:45] <cuddykid> oh.. hm
[12:45] <Darkside> anyway, this all warrants testing
[12:46] <Darkside> lots of testing
[12:46] <cuddykid> yep
[12:46] <cuddykid> it's a shame we can't get some sort of permission from authorities to allow us to use different communication methods - as amateur space groups etc use
[12:47] <Darkside> well again, i ddon't have these problems
[12:47] <Darkside> and i'm still looking at using the RFM22B as an uplink
[12:47] <Darkside> ite either that or a NRX2 + a dtmf decoder
[12:47] <Darkside> well, actually a BiM2 or similar, as i need to keep ttrack of the drift
[12:48] <cuddykid> yeah
[12:48] <cuddykid> right, off out - bbl
[12:49] <Darkside> night
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[13:07] <m6pnp> .
[13:08] <Upu> hi m6pnp
[13:08] <m6pnp> hello :)
[13:10] <m6pnp> how are the launch plans going for the LEO-1 today..im a uk ham with some 70cms kit and a lot of time over the weekend
[13:10] <Upu> Not sure thats a US based launch
[13:10] <Upu> however it does have a 20 meter beacon on it
[13:10] <Upu> whether you'll be able to receive it or not is another matter :)
[13:11] <Upu> Full details here : https://docs.google.com/document/d/10Dfeu-PS_HTzFAvvcVhk9o4XwZ8Ui_hlQyeAdLO339M/edit
[13:11] <Upu> we do have a launch tomorrow on 70cms you should be able to receive
[13:11] <m6pnp> 20 meters has been lively over the past few days :) time to dig the softrock out :)
[13:12] <Upu> from your location you should be able to easily receive the launch tomorrow
[13:13] <m6pnp> well i am in the sw uk not far from stonehenge ..and i have a very good take off to the west for uhf .... i will try and see what i can pull out of the ether.
[13:14] <Upu> be interested
[13:14] <Upu> tracked any launches before ?
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[13:18] <Upu> Afternoon Steve, what time constitutes "early" tomorrow ?
[13:19] <RocketBoy_S2> Id say about 10 perhaps earlier perhaps a bit later
[13:19] <Upu> ok I'll go shopping early :)
[13:21] <RocketBoy_S2> Cool - thanks
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[13:59] <priyesh> !lastseen daveake
[13:59] <priyesh> !last daveake
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[14:20] <Randomskk> eroomde: two years later, I finally put proper banana plugs on the ends of my icom's power cables
[14:21] <Randomskk> something like £4 from farnell and ten minutes of assembly and I can finally stop just blu-tacking bare wire into the sockets on the psu
[14:21] <Randomskk> why the hell they don't ship them with plugs on I don't know :|
[14:26] <gonzo_> bananna plugs are not 'propper' plugs. As you can (will) get then inthe wrong holes
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[14:31] <Randomskk> gonzo_: they are however a) very common b) what's on both of my power supplies c) colour coded
[14:32] <Randomskk> I think they count as proper plugs, anyway, regardless of polarisation or not
[14:33] <gonzo_> I shy away from them, as I can't be trusted to use non polarised plugs.
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[14:50] <NSS-WB9SBD> Morning All!
[14:51] <NSS-WB9SBD> Anyone here for the KC5NXD Flight?
[14:52] <fsphil> Oh yes, how long until launch now?
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[14:57] <NSS-WB9SBD> I have no idea, still trying to find out ny status at all.
[14:58] <fsphil> I've not heard. If Bill's launching it (not sure) then it could be *any* time
[14:59] <fsphil> brb
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[15:02] <NSS-WB9SBD> I'm still trying to learn the right freq even, one place says one freq, and another says a different one.
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[15:15] <w3hzu> any word on the Titans in Space launch today?
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[15:20] <Upu> KC5NXD = LEO-1 ?
[15:20] <Upu> whats titans in space ?
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[15:30] <Pavix> http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2853/testing2.png <---Guess who has no idea what he's doing regarding HAM radios?
[15:31] <Upu> which exam is that ?
[15:31] <Pavix> technician
[15:31] <Upu> the top 5 lines look like my attempts at full license :)
[15:31] <Pavix> The electronic stuff I get, its when it talks about ferrite-chokes, ionosphere
[15:33] <Pavix> I'm just hoping that by taking it enough I get exposure to the stuff I need to know so that I can learn what I don't know
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[16:11] <Upu> well its on the map
[16:12] <fsphil> it's already higher up than I am
[16:14] <fsphil> it should have launched 15 minutes ago
[16:19] <cuddykid> MLow may be able to hear this one
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[16:45] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
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[16:54] <fsphil-laptop> it's up
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[16:58] <RocketBoy_S2> Bbl
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[17:00] <TimZaman> i got the stuff from my launch up in a minute
[17:01] <PD3EM_shack> TimZaman: Have you received your payload back from Germany yet?
[17:01] <TimZaman> PD3EM_shack: yeah yesterday
[17:01] <TimZaman> got the video done
[17:01] <PD3EM_shack> TimZaman: Great news! Looking forward to all data!
[17:02] <TimZaman> DONE
[17:02] <TimZaman> http://polaroidsfromspace.com/
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[17:05] <kc0yns> Anyone know if the KC5NXD/ Olde_Towne balloon launch was scubbed?
[17:05] <Upu> its up
[17:05] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[17:05] <kc0yns> cant see it
[17:05] <Upu> or http://aprs.fi/?call=KC5NXD-12
[17:06] <kc0yns> thanks
[17:06] <Upu> great video TimZaman
[17:06] <TimZaman> :)
[17:06] <TimZaman> took me all morning
[17:07] <TimZaman> 3 minutes lol
[17:07] <Upu> +! for comedy music
[17:07] <daveake> lol
[17:07] <TimZaman> Upu it's Jazz!
[17:07] <Upu> its my definition of a boombastic bass style
[17:07] <Upu> by...
[17:07] <TimZaman> but OK comedy it is
[17:08] <TimZaman> they used it in Austin powers as well
[17:08] <TimZaman> i guess its wha\ tits most known for
[17:08] <WJ9H> Hearing KC5NXD-12 at S3 in southern Wisconsin but not always decoding telemetry.
[17:08] <Upu> Dream Warriors
[17:11] <PD3EM_shack> Great video TimZaman !!
[17:12] <PD3EM_shack> WJ9H: What's its excact QRG? Have some Olivia here on 14.104....
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[17:13] <TimZaman> PD3EM_shack: ty
[17:13] <Upu> PD3EM_shack any idea what oliva that is ?
[17:13] <Upu> I think I can hear it
[17:14] <PD3EM_shack> Olivia is a wide data mode with "strange" beeps
[17:14] <Upu> can definitely hear something that sounds like the Star Trak ships computer
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[17:14] <Upu> yes over about 2000hz
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[17:17] <WJ9H> My radio is on 14.104 USB and the telemetry is DominoEX16 at about 1500 Hz - also RTTY100 that I can't decode.
[17:18] <kc0yns_> anyone hearing it on 14.104
[17:21] <kc0yns_> good luck olde towne middle school, I have to leave ....
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[17:22] <PD3EM_shack> tnx WJ9H! Got QRM here from some olivia http://yfrog.com/obj67pcj
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[17:25] <WJ9H> PD3EM: getting occasional Olivia QRM hr too, but still decoding the balloon every 3rd try or so.
[17:32] <cuddykid> very nice and very professional TimZaman
[17:32] <TimZaman> ty cuddykid
[17:33] <TimZaman> 1080p =)
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[17:46] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:46] <TimZaman> evenin
[17:46] <TimZaman> jcoxon: http://polaroidsfromspace.com/
[17:46] <PD3EM_shack> Evening James!
[17:46] <jcoxon> anyone listening for the us flight?
[17:47] <daveake> I'm not - very noisy here at that freq
[17:47] <PD3EM_shack> yep but still nothing over here except Olivia QRM
[17:49] <jcoxon> TimZaman, nice work! though i think we learnt that polaroids in low temp/atmos doesn't really work...
[17:49] <TimZaman> jcoxon: Nope. They give a awfully nice pattern though.
[17:50] <jcoxon> indeed
[17:51] <jcoxon> spacenear.us is working well in the states
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[17:52] <jcoxon> hi AL0I_Todd
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[17:58] <fsphil> I can hear what i think is olivia
[17:58] <fsphil> 14.104 is the dial frequency isn't it?
[17:59] <PD3EM_shack> still nothing here from KC5NXD...... bad conditions and wrong time of day/year... ;-) Gonna make some dinner first. BBL
[17:59] <PD3EM_shack> fsphil it should be
[18:00] <TimZaman> fsphil i got the content up!
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[18:04] <fsphil> hey TimZaman, will get a look shorty. sorting out dinner :)
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[18:06] <jcoxon> evening RocketBoy
[18:06] <RocketBoy> hey - hiya - back?
[18:07] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:07] <jcoxon> you still launching tomorrow?
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[18:08] <RocketBoy> yeah
[18:08] <jcoxon> from EARS?
[18:09] <NSS-WB9SBD> James, the predicted flight path option not on,, on this flight?
[18:09] <jcoxon> oh it can be
[18:09] <jcoxon> hold on
[18:09] <RocketBoy> undecided
[18:10] <jcoxon> NSS-WB9SBD, loading it up now
[18:13] <NSS-WB9SBD> yup it's there now, way cool dude!
[18:14] <jcoxon> NSS-WB9SBD, it seems to be working well - you rx'ing it?
[18:16] <NSS-WB9SBD> yup been up-loading s soon as they turned it on.
[18:16] <jcoxon> what freq?
[18:16] <jcoxon> i'll have a listen from here
[18:16] <NSS-WB9SBD> 14.104
[18:17] <NSS-WB9SBD> cf about 1600 on the waterfall
[18:21] <NSS-WB9SBD> .
[18:21] <PD3EM_shack> some very week signals on the waterfall @ 1600 Hz
[18:22] <PD3EM_shack> sry 1700 Hz
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[18:31] <NSS-WB9SBD> some very strong and very wide sig is almost dead on freq now.
[18:31] <KB9ZWL> yup here too
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[18:33] <jcoxon> NSS-WB9SBD, is you lat /lon set at 0.0?
[18:34] <NSS-WB9SBD> nope my tower is in the right place on the map.
[18:34] <jcoxon> hmmm trying to work out who it is
[18:37] <jcoxon> it must be N4XWC MOBILE
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[18:40] <jcoxon> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/march2012/around_the_world_28_mhz_cw_balloon.htm
[18:40] <jcoxon> very interesting
[18:42] <jcoxon> struggle with 10 balloons though
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[18:44] <costyn> evening all
[18:45] <NSS-WB9SBD> who who is? I like the one thats in China he he he
[18:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:46] <NSS-WB9SBD> the 28 mhz balloon I don't see how he's gonna survive nightfall, without a ballast syayem.
[18:47] <jcoxon> well he'll try and super-pressure those mylar balloons
[18:47] <jcoxon> NSS-WB9SBD, we've done quite a lot of work on this style of flight over here in the UK
[18:47] <jcoxon> its very very difficult
[18:47] <jcoxon> found that the fewer balloons the better
[18:48] <NSS-WB9SBD> we've done 2 and said not worth the hassle. for what is gained.
[18:48] <NSS-WB9SBD> bang for the buck isn't there
[18:51] <CovBalloon> Evening all
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[18:56] <jcoxon> woohoo
[18:56] <jcoxon> got a string on globaltuner
[18:59] <NSS-WB9SBD> where at?
[18:59] <jcoxon> wisconsin
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> And pop.
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> Range circles look a lot smaller in the states.
[19:04] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, indeed
[19:07] <NSS-WB9SBD> yeah I've had good sigs on it through the whole flight so far.
[19:08] <NSS-WB9SBD> was there not a web page where you can see raw incoming data?
[19:08] <Dan-K2VOL> hi joe
[19:08] <jcoxon> NSS-WB9SBD, sure
[19:09] <NSS-WB9SBD> Hi Dan
[19:09] <jcoxon> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[19:09] <jcoxon> its big though
[19:09] <jcoxon> no one has cleared it for a while
[19:10] <NSS-WB9SBD> wow I was gonna say how long of a duration is this for?
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[19:21] <NSS-WB9SBD> .
[19:23] <cuddykid> ping priyesh / other apex members
[19:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> guys over at wunclub are talking about a ballon launch in mexico with a 2m,6m and 10m beacon
[19:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> launch time 1800Z
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[19:31] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, oh right - cool
[19:31] <jcoxon> aprs i assume?
[19:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=xe2nl-11
[19:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Las frecuencias de transmisión de las balizas serán en 2M la 144.200 Mhz, en 6M 50.090 Mhz y en 10M en 28.055 Mhz , todas en modo de CW.
[19:31] <w3hzu> any HF Voice Tracking net?? we have lost the beacon
[19:31] <fsphil-laptop> CW
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> ultra modern :)
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> w3hzu, some people are still tracking it: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[19:33] <fsphil-laptop> 3km-ish up, a few more minutes until landing
[19:33] <fsphil-laptop> well, 10 minutes according to the predictor
[19:33] <fsphil-laptop> I see lots of trees
[19:34] <fsphil-laptop> also a lake
[19:37] <w3hzu> we are hearing it still but thought it might be neat to talk to the recovery team... mobile or something .... of course HF phone is sorta busy today INt DX Contest
[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> hey rocketboy
[19:38] <jcoxon> w3hzu, not aware of an HF net, though you can follow the chase car progress
[19:41] <w3hzu> yup we will be doing that...
[19:42] <KB9ZWL> wow didnt think i would get a string at that low of altitude
[19:43] <fsphil-laptop> HF is weird :)
[19:43] <fsphil-laptop> NSS-WB9SBD, how far are you from where it landed?
[19:44] <jcoxon> thats the joy of HF
[19:44] <fsphil-laptop> also trees
[19:45] <fsphil-laptop> looks like it might be dangling
[19:45] <fsphil-laptop> at least there's a road/path nearby
[19:45] <jcoxon> so the HF antenna will be partially extended
[19:45] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[19:45] <fsphil-laptop> that's neat
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[19:46] <w3hzu> still hearing it on HF here
[19:46] <w3hzu> actually decoded it 40seconds ago
[19:46] <fsphil-laptop> wow
[19:47] <jcoxon> yeah its defintiely down
[19:47] <fsphil-laptop> it's being decoded over 1000km away
[19:47] <fsphil-laptop> from a tree
[19:47] <w3hzu> another good decode $$KC5NXD,237,19:47:00,3351.36,-08617.36,203,08,8.46,15*6A
[19:48] <jcoxon> this is more fun then APRS flights surely!
[19:48] <w3hzu> I agree
[19:48] <fsphil-laptop> we should do an HF beacon, for post-landing
[19:48] <w3hzu> fsphil are you doing one
[19:48] <KB9ZWL> another good one $$KC5NXD,238,19:48:00,3351.36,-08617.36,199,09,8.46,16*68
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[19:49] <NSS-WB9SBD> NSS-WB9SBD, how far are you from where it landed? I'm in Wisconsin, so quite far away but good signals
[19:49] <fsphil-laptop> my next one won't have HF w3hzu, just 70cm - but watching this I'm starting to think it could be useful
[19:49] <fsphil-laptop> if the payload landed in a remote area, there's still a chance it could be located
[19:49] <jcoxon> w3hzu, in the UK we can't really use HF at altitude
[19:50] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, GSM would work though
[19:50] <fsphil-laptop> although I'm sure if the antenna was flat on the ground it wouldn't work so well
[19:50] <w3hzu> yeah alright... we are going to do one sometime this summer with APRS and fastscan ATV
[19:50] <w3hzu> http://aprs.fi/?call=kc5nxd-12&mt=roadmap&z=11&timerange=3600&_s=ss_call
[19:50] <fsphil-laptop> ATV is neat
[19:50] <w3hzu> yeah if it works from 100,000ft
[19:51] <w3hzu> dial down on the link and switch to street view... look at the yardsale at the trailer park
[19:52] <priyesh> cuddykid: pong
[19:52] <fsphil-laptop> hey the APRS was tracked really well too
[19:53] <w3hzu> yeah sure was...
[19:56] <fsphil-laptop> 20m has gone all quiet here very quickly
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[19:58] <Morseman> 20M no good here at the moment
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[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> they've a long drive ahead of them
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> hope they packed the telescopic poles
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> or a saw
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[20:10] <cuddykid> hi priyesh :) just a quick question - how did you manage to get sponsorship off totex? Did you just email them?
[20:10] <NSS-WB9SBD> James Still here?
[20:12] <NSS-WB9SBD> .
[20:13] <fsphil-laptop> ping jcoxon ^^
[20:13] <jcoxon> NSS-WB9SBD, yeah
[20:13] <jcoxon> i'm here
[20:13] <fsphil-laptop> ah there he is
[20:14] Nick change: Morseman -> G0DJA
[20:14] <NSS-WB9SBD> how do ya do Private message here?
[20:15] <jcoxon> i've opened up a PM to you
[20:16] <priyesh> cuddykid: yeah - just emailed them nicely with our sponsorship offer and they accepted
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[20:22] <cuddykid> priyesh: oh nice :D I've emailed kaymont and hwoyee before with no luck - do you have their email address?
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[20:31] <priyesh> cuddykid: i don't have the contact address with me at the moment - if you ask me later I'll get them for you ;)
[20:33] <jolo2> Hello, does anyone have any tips on making a payload ?
[20:33] <jolo2> Because with our school we launched one balloon and we are going to launch another one in may, this first wat just a test for us to see how it is to be launch a balloon. But the problem is that we had many of the experiments that failed. The ham radio guys that were following the payload said that it was really cold in the payload
[20:33] <jolo2> well there wasn't any insulation so that was predictable
[20:34] <jolo2> just a plain cardboard box with the batteries wrapped in foam and duct tape
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> more insulation :)
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> polystyrene is a popular choice
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[20:35] <jolo2> some of the sensors failed and i don't really know why
[20:35] <jolo2> and the cameras failed
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[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> low temperature could have caused those problems
[20:36] <jolo2> those where some cheap camera hooked up to a ready made ne555 circuit
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> a lot of batteries don't work well when it gets cold
[20:36] <jolo2> and that circuit used a relay so i think that the cold and the accelaration of the balloon could have caused the failure isn't it ?
[20:36] <jolo2> well there still was arround 7.5V on the circuit of the radio emmiter
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not sure, do relays use grease at all? it can freeze
[20:37] <jcoxon> jolo2, what batteries did you use?
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> that caused our first camera to fail
[20:37] <jolo2> 4.5V battery
[20:38] <jolo2> 2 in series in parralel with another 2 in series
[20:38] <jolo2> and well the payload isn't that pretty
[20:38] <jolo2> http://mpsballon2011.jolo2.eu/static/Nacelle.jpg
[20:38] <jolo2> but we didn't have that much time to make it
[20:39] <jcoxon> jolo2, what type of battery though?
[20:39] <jcoxon> alkaline?
[20:39] <jolo2> i don't really remember xD
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> that's a lot of wires :)
[20:39] <jcoxon> basically you need to use lithium batteries
[20:39] <NSS-WB9SBD> daytime cold isn't all that bad, many payloads have flown with couple of layers of small bubble wrap alone and nothing else and work great!
[20:39] <jcoxon> they'll work at -40
[20:40] <jolo2> we used 3 sensors of each type 3 for the temperature 3 for the pressure and we somehow managed not to have some pressure reading xD
[20:40] <NSS-WB9SBD> yes lithium is the ONLY batteries ya can use almost anything else will die
[20:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Priyesh Patel "[UKHAS] Apex III L2 Provisional Launch Date"
[20:41] <Dan-K2VOL> and by lithium, that means something like the Energizer Ultimate Lithium line of Lithium/IronDisulfide LiFeS2 - http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[20:41] <Dan-K2VOL> non-rechargeable
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> Lithium-ion or lithium-polymer typically do not fare nearly as well as the LiFeS2
[20:42] <jolo2> are they heavy ?
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> no
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> very light
[20:42] <fsphil-laptop> surprisingly light
[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> they are ideal in every characteristic
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[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> they also have more power than alkaline
[20:43] <fsphil-laptop> shame they're not rechargeable
[20:43] <NSS-WB9SBD> Dan is correct in every way, watt for watt less than 1/2 the weight and many many tims the amp hour capacity.
[20:43] <fsphil-laptop> they'd be the perfect battery
[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> 14.5g per AA cell, 3000+ mAh
[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> 1.8v
[20:43] <jolo2> so they'd be better than the 4*4.5V batteries we used ?
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[20:44] <NSS-WB9SBD> where did you get 4.5V batteries?
[20:44] <Dan-K2VOL> do you have a link to the battery info jolo2?
[20:44] <jolo2> well i don't really remember the brand of the batteries or anything from them
[20:44] <Dan-K2VOL> there are some exotic military grade batteries that do better, but the cost is a LOT more than the Energizer L91 AAs, which are now widely available in the US, and I think fairly so in europe
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> haha well, can't really compare then
[20:45] <jolo2> well can't really see anything on the photo as they are wrapped in foam xD
[20:46] <NSS-WB9SBD> I still loved the best ones we started with 25+ years ago those that were th size of "C" cells 15 volts and 400 grams and like 10 AMP Hours man did we run power hungry stuff on those babies!
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[20:46] <Dan-K2VOL> heh nss-WB9SBD, sounds like military surplus?
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[20:47] <NSS-WB9SBD> they were I thng S&G Photo
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[20:47] <NSS-WB9SBD> 10 in a pack 30 volt center tapped
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> by the way here is the Application Manual and Battery Handbook for the Ultimate LIthiums, about 25 pages long, very educational: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds great
[20:48] <NSS-WB9SBD> easy split one cut and ya had two packs at 15 volt. were the best we have ever found.
[20:49] <jolo2> and do you know if we can get those easily in France ?
[20:49] <fsphil-laptop> Energiser batteries should be easy to get
[20:50] <jolo2> well it seems that they would be lighter than the batteries we used
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> We've even succesfully spot welded them into packs to save battery holder weight (and reliability)
[20:50] <jolo2> they were arround 500grams something like that just for two of them
[20:50] <jolo2> so 1kg of batteries xD
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> using a 5 farad capacitor @14v with giant copper nails for terminals
[20:50] <fsphil-laptop> http://fr.farnell.com/energizer/629601/batterie-ultimate-aa-pq4/dp/1494854
[20:51] <NSS-WB9SBD> and that is something you never want to try to do on any other battery 90% of the time when they get cold they will open circut on ya. learned that the hard way.
[20:51] <Dan-K2VOL> that's interesting joe
[20:51] <fsphil-laptop> Dan-K2VOL, don't happen to have any videos of that?
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm I might fsphil, let me dig around, it makes a nice BANG when you hit the SCR trigger
[20:52] <fsphil-laptop> I did see one video someone made, but it was a more complicated machine
[20:52] <fsphil-laptop> I think it was parts out of a microwave
[20:53] <NSS-WB9SBD> I like how the payload is wandering around in the tree tops.
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> here is an example of the welds from it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/0seeker0/5365232369/
[20:53] <NSS-WB9SBD> Nice Job!
[20:53] <fsphil-laptop> very
[20:53] <fsphil-laptop> I tried soldering a battery once. it didn't go well
[20:54] <NSS-WB9SBD> looks almost as good as factory welds I have seen
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> heh, it takes some practice, you can just leave gaping holes in the contacts if you're not careful
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> this is the finished battery packs: http://www.flickr.com/photos/0seeker0/5365232973/in/photostream/
[20:56] <jolo2> that looks way better than our payload
[20:56] <fsphil-laptop> you can save a bit more by removing the label, but it's a bit awkward to remove them -- they're glued pretty good
[20:56] <NSS-WB9SBD> wow what horrible signl is on there now it is soo rough and raw it sounds like open 2 meter squelch!
[20:56] <fsphil-laptop> I was hearing some packet nearby on the US global tuners radio
[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> still decoding NSS-WB9SBD?
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[20:57] <Dan-K2VOL> haha fsphil-laptop
[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> there's been no new telemetry for about 20 minutes
[20:57] <NSS-WB9SBD> yp solid copy on almost every transmission\
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[20:58] <NSS-WB9SBD> I'm still up-loading reports every minute
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> are you using the dominoex signal or rtty?
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> ah there it is
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> spacenear.us has stopped updating on my screen, but I can still see the uploads in the raw data
[21:01] <fsphil-laptop> who broke it? :)
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[21:04] <NSS-WB9SBD> Both signls have two programs running on is set for dom the other for rtty
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[21:06] <Dan-K2VOL> uploaded a better pic of the assembled spot-welded pack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/48225359@N03/6950026673/in/photostream
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> chase car about 10 miles away
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> aah I like the way it's angled
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> tilted
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> you know what I mean
[21:07] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
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[21:08] <NSS-WB9SBD> Hot melt glue is the payload builders best buddy
[21:09] <fsphil-laptop> payload and duct tape is pretty much what my payloads are made from :)
[21:09] <jcoxon> and duct tape
[21:09] <fsphil-laptop> er
[21:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> and ducktape i´ve heard :-)
[21:09] <fsphil-laptop> polystyrene and dust tape
[21:09] Action: fsphil-laptop would like to make payloads from payloads -- that would make it all much simpler tbh
[21:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lol ducktape, typo there
[21:10] <Dan-K2VOL> ha fs-phil, we need to start learning how to make inflatable structures so the payload is the balloon too
[21:10] <NSS-WB9SBD> Like Modular?
[21:10] <fsphil-laptop> perfect!
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[21:10] <fsphil-laptop> wait, did this land near Bill's house?
[21:11] <NSS-WB9SBD> so the payload is the balloon,, like building a ship in a bottle!
[21:11] <fsphil-laptop> we've got payloads small enough now that they could fit into the neck
[21:11] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yeah they really could
[21:11] <Dan-K2VOL> you guys have amazingly shrunk things
[21:11] <Dan-K2VOL> you will be ready for superpressure
[21:12] <fsphil-laptop> with such a light payload, would it be possible to use something other than latex for the balloon?
[21:12] <Dan-K2VOL> Bill lives at the WB8ELK-MAC station I htink
[21:12] <fsphil-laptop> something a bit heavier, but that won't burst as quickly
[21:12] <Randomskk> omg yaaaaaay
[21:12] <Randomskk> days of hacking later and I finally got a friggin LED to light up on this sodding payload
[21:12] <Dan-K2VOL> oh certainly, that's what I mean, you can use EVOH Heptax
[21:12] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/6803933598
[21:12] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:12] <Randomskk> stupid new technology
[21:12] <Dan-K2VOL> and make a true superpressure with that light weight of a payload
[21:13] <Dan-K2VOL> nice random
[21:13] <Randomskk> sadly that's the light that gets lit up by the hardfault handler code
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> it's so ...hypnotising... Randomskk
[21:13] <Randomskk> but still
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> hah
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> progress is still progrss
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> er
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> +e
[21:13] <Randomskk> the switch mode power supply is still not working
[21:13] <Randomskk> and usb bootloading isn't either
[21:13] <Randomskk> don't have a clue on either of those fronts
[21:13] <Randomskk> the gps works nicely though
[21:14] <Randomskk> the radio is untested but needs a little rework on the ouput filter first anyway
[21:14] <Randomskk> but at least I got the ARM to finally do /something/
[21:14] <Randomskk> even if that something was hard fault
[21:14] <fsphil-laptop> anyone making that sort of thing commercially Dan-K2VOL?
[21:14] <NSS-WB9SBD> How come now that the chase car is close now it seems to be moving faster than 10MPh?
[21:15] <Dan-K2VOL> yes fs-phil, however they won't sell to amateurs
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> aah-- I think I remember you talking about that before
[21:15] <Dan-K2VOL> it's my goal, after the trans-atlantic season is over, to produce some designs you can use
[21:15] <Dan-K2VOL> to make your own
[21:15] <Dan-K2VOL> you can get Heptax here: https://secure.beyondthenet.com/~balloon/pages/catalog.html
[21:16] <NSS-WB9SBD> anyone else still listening to the payload here in wisconsin it's peaking now at 20 over!
[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> 20m is totally dead for me on the other side of the atlantic
[21:18] <fsphil-laptop> where's the chase car going now
[21:18] <fsphil-laptop> oh, maybe that street to the south
[21:18] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[21:18] <fsphil-laptop> man that's a lot of trees they missed
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[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> hope the weather's as nice as it is in that sat photo
[21:23] <NSS-WB9SBD> I wonder how much damage is in that area from the storms yesterday?
[21:24] <NSS-WB9SBD> He's gon 4 wheelin' now!
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[21:28] <natrium42> :D
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[21:29] <natrium42> asking for permission from land owner?
[21:29] <natrium42> moving again
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[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> that car's 179m asl
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> the payload is 198m
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> 19m up
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> that's quite a bit
[21:37] <PD3EM_shack> so the payload is indeed in a 19 high tree
[21:37] <PD3EM_shack> they need to climb....
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> gps altitude isn't always reliable so it might not be that bad
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> or it could be worse :)
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> although it's not varying
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[21:38] <PD3EM_shack> why is Google maps not doing a live sat image?? ;-)
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> you almost expect to see them getting out of the car
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> give them time
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[21:39] <PD3EM_shack> haha... we'll wait to the rcover message
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[21:40] <PD3EM_shack> Just ordered some Arduino stuff :-)
[21:40] <fsphil-laptop> sweet
[21:40] <PD3EM_shack> should be here on tuesday
[21:41] <PD3EM_shack> but i still need NTX2 and GPS
[21:41] <cuddykid> cheers priyesh
[21:42] <cuddykid> PD3EM_shack: as long as it's not from HK/China you should be alright with postage :P
[21:42] <cuddykid> still sitting in the PO in HK :(
[21:42] <PD3EM_shack> yep. Got it here in The Netherlands with free postage
[21:43] <cuddykid> if it doesn't get a move on I won't be getting them for next weekend - then there will be serious problems
[21:43] <cuddykid> it's already delaying my plans
[21:43] <PD3EM_shack> cuddykid: still waiting on your delivery?
[21:43] <NSS-WB9SBD> Looks like it is 40 feet up in the tree
[21:44] <PD3EM_shack> cuddykid: oh i see it above... that's bad.....
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> that's less than my estimate
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[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> hope so!
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[21:46] <cuddykid> PD3EM_shack - yep, been weeks not from hong kong (custom pcbs)
[21:46] <cuddykid> so annoying
[21:47] <PD3EM_shack> cuddykid: that's very frustrating!
[21:47] <natrium42> < PD3EM_shack> why is Google maps not doing a live sat image?? ;-)
[21:47] <natrium42> but then you don't even need GPS locators
[21:47] <fsphil-laptop> track a payload visually !
[21:47] <PD3EM_shack> that would be fun!
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[21:48] <fsphil-laptop> well, it wouldn't help recovery. it's always cloudy here :)
[21:48] <PD3EM_shack> We should ask Jack Bauer for that ;-)
[21:48] <NSS-WB9SBD> I think they got it
[21:48] <fsphil-laptop> has the signal stopped?
[21:48] <NSS-WB9SBD> been 3 minutes
[21:49] <RocketBoy> danielsaul:
[21:49] <NSS-WB9SBD> since last ignal, and the signal was strong so they must have it.
[21:49] <fsphil-laptop> or they've pulled out the hf antenna :)
[21:50] <PD3EM_shack> tried to pull it down via the HF antenna....
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[21:51] <jcoxon> hehe searching for 'high altitude parafoil' finds my early test youtube videos
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[21:52] <PD3EM_shack> The APRS beacon is still transmitting from the same location
[21:52] <NSS-WB9SBD> just got a dom transmission
[21:54] <fsphil-laptop> I must try some low power domino or olivia again
[21:55] <NSS-WB9SBD> can't belive that the signal would change that much from 20 over one minute to nothing heard for the next 3 minutes,,, solar flare?
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[22:00] <jcoxon> ping eroomde
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[22:02] <NSS-WB9SBD> gonna go gang,
[22:02] <NSS-WB9SBD> see ya all
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> cya !
[22:03] <PD3EM_shack> cu! 73
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> do I finish this code, or go to bed early... hmmm
[22:04] <daveake> sleep is overrated :)
[22:04] <PD3EM_shack> fsphil-laptop: i think #2 isn't an option before #1 is done ;-)
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[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[22:04] <upic> hello
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> ah well tomorrow is sunday
[22:05] <fsphil-laptop> hiya upic
[22:05] <PD3EM_shack> is Upu still hanging around here?
[22:08] Nick change: Elwell_ -> ELwell
[22:08] Nick change: ELwell -> Elwell
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[22:28] <Morseman> I did have a listen on 20M but my HF set-up isn't great to be honest...
[22:29] <Morseman> I've also thought of a problem using my 432MHz to 28MHz transverter to SDR... 434MHz is a bit high for the transverter - Doh!
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> puts it over 30MHz?
[22:35] <Morseman> Yes, but the Perseus will do that, the problem is the input filter on the 432MHz transverter...
[22:40] <Morseman> I may have to build a 434MHz to 28MHz transverter to get a decent signal to the SDR
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[22:40] <fsphil-laptop> is that difficult?
[22:41] <Morseman> Not really, it's just a pain because I didn't think of that problem before
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[22:46] <Morseman> Most Amateur 70cm transverters are designed to bring 432MHz down to 28MHz and have about a 1 to 2MHz bandwidth
[22:46] <Morseman> 434MHz is a bit high for those designs
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[22:48] <Morseman> So... I think I need to build a converter with a 45MHz xtal osc that provides an output at about 434MHz to 28MHz conversion
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[22:51] <jcoxon> back
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[22:52] <danielsaul> RocketBoy: Hey
[22:52] <RocketBoy> hey
[22:53] <jcoxon> eek i'm having issues with too many projects going through my head
[22:53] <PD3EM_shack> What is a good store where they have the NTX2 on stock for a nice prise?
[22:53] <RocketBoy> just to say it shipped today - should arrive monday if royal mail are doing their job
[22:53] <danielsaul> Ah, fantastic
[22:53] <danielsaul> Thank you :)
[22:53] <RocketBoy> np
[22:54] <Upu> ping PD3EM_shack
[22:54] <Upu> evening
[22:54] <daveake> RocketBoy How early is "early Sunday morning"?
[22:54] <PD3EM_shack> evening Upu
[22:54] <Upu> back now sorry been out with the wife
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[22:54] <jcoxon> PD3EM_shack, direct from radiometrix
[22:55] <jcoxon> or have a chat with upu
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[22:55] <Upu> <-
[22:55] <RocketBoy> daveake: about 10:00 - might be earlier
[22:55] <Upu> pm me
[22:55] <daveake> Ta. I'll be ready :)
[22:55] <PD3EM_shack> thats a good reason for being away Upu
[22:55] <RocketBoy> if I wake up early enough
[22:55] <daveake> :)
[22:56] <daveake> So 10 ISH not 10 BST perhaps
[22:57] <RocketBoy> hope not
[22:59] <daveake> I'll just need to put up my temporary mast and run some low loss cable this time
[23:01] <Upu> I got the wife's permission (like David Miller but harder to get) to put up the 19 element Tonna
[23:02] <Upu> I told her its just like a TV antenna
[23:02] <Morseman> even 10 UTC is going to be too early to put a vertical up here - so I'll go with the beam again - is there a lat/long for the launch site please?
[23:02] <daveake> lol well done :)
[23:02] <Upu> but about 4 times longer
[23:03] <daveake> I've got that 12 element Moonraker yagi now, so I might put that up
[23:03] <Morseman> Moonraker! <Shudders>
[23:03] <daveake> Eh? The shorter one I've been using has been great
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[23:04] <Morseman> I've seen their construction techneques - not good IMO
[23:05] <daveake> I see no problem with these
[23:05] <Morseman> Even *I* think I could do better, and that's saying something...
[23:06] <daveake> <shrug> Like I said, these look fine to me. They just get used temporarily and both will outlast me
[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> I like trains
[23:08] <Upu> I like ponys
[23:08] <Upu> ponies
[23:08] <Upu> I got a A in English you kniw
[23:08] <Upu> know
[23:08] <fsphil-laptop> nooo.. they've got you too!!
[23:08] <daveake> I got a dskl in typing
[23:08] <NigeyS> i like turtles!
[23:09] <Morseman> On 70cm you do need to be a bit more careful than on 2m.
[23:09] <Morseman> The Moonraker antennas seem a bit more rustic than I'd prefer...
[23:10] <fsphil-laptop> I like the diamonds, just wish they dind't have those horrible SO-259-something sockets
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[23:11] <Morseman> Wimos are better but more expensive of course
[23:12] <Morseman> Although, having said that, I had major issues with the build quality of the Wimo antennas on 23cm...
[23:13] <Upu> Tonna has N-Types fsphil
[23:13] <Upu> I checked last night
[23:14] <Morseman> Tonnas are a) old designs and b) often not resonant on the correct frequency - the 6M ones are a classic example...
[23:15] <Upu> whats your suggestion for a 70cms beam ?
[23:15] <Morseman> Wimos if cost is no object
[23:16] <Morseman> DL6WU designs if you can make your own
[23:16] <RocketBoy> upu - was it you that had the radiation pattern calculator given a postcode?
[23:16] <Upu> I was looking at this : http://www.f9ft.com/pdf/220319e.pdf
[23:16] <Morseman> I have a Wimo for 70cm in the garage ready to go on the mast in the better weather. ;-)
[23:17] <Upu> you mean this : http://i.imgur.com/FVeOs.jpg
[23:17] <Morseman> F9FT = Tonna..
[23:17] <Upu> its not a radiation pattern it just peaks higher than me
[23:17] <Upu> I know they are Tonna thats why I linked it :)
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[23:18] <RocketBoy> yeah thats exactly what I mean - how do I produce one for ere?
[23:19] <Upu> hmm good question 1 sec
[23:19] <Morseman> To be 'cutting edge' subscribe to DUBUS (I don't as I can't afford it anymore) or do a search on DL6WU yagi designs
[23:19] <Upu> Go here : http://www.heywhatsthat.com/
[23:19] <Upu> click new panorama
[23:19] <Upu> make it
[23:20] <Upu> you have to wait a min or two
[23:20] <Upu> then click view in google earth
[23:21] <Morseman> You can see mine from my antenna height as I saved for "G0DJA" on those panaramas - but they are only LOS
[23:23] <Upu> Morseman EF7015 seems to be the equivalent Wimo antenna
[23:27] <Upu> not much to go on but the eham reviews for the Tonnas are pretty good
[23:28] <RocketBoy> not a bad takeoff to the sea - otherwise crap http://imagebin.org/201898
[23:29] <RocketBoy> tonnas have been good ever since i were a lad
[23:29] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, sent you an email :)
[23:29] <Upu> however Steve as soon as whatever you're listening too clears those hills = good
[23:30] <Upu> the issue is the ones close to you
[23:30] <RocketBoy> NigeyS - yeah will chat
[23:31] <NigeyS> no probs if ure busy, can wait till another day :)
[23:31] <Upu> I'll update live prediction when I get up tomorrow
[23:32] <RocketBoy> yep - just off to bed - up eraly - CU all
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[23:34] <Morseman> I've used Tonnas and still have a box of 4 x 23 ele Tonas for 23cm in the garage - however, they are very old designs and the newer ones like DL6WU are probably better
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[23:39] <Morseman> I went for the EF7015M - lower G/T figure
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[23:41] <PD3EM_shack> gotta go... cul
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[23:46] <NigeyS> http://i.imgur.com/qliaE.jpg
[23:46] <NigeyS> that bad upu ? :|
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[23:46] <Upu> not too bad, its the close hills that stuff you
[23:47] <Upu> looks like you're in a crater
[23:48] <NigeyS> yup, good old hilly wales :/
[23:49] <fsphil-laptop> good coverage directly east
[23:49] <NigeyS> yups
[23:49] <fsphil-laptop> and south
[23:49] <NigeyS> north east is a big nono though :(
[23:49] <NigeyS> and thats where cam is :/
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[23:52] <Morseman> The line-of-sight paths don't give a true RF picture though. Even microwaves will go further than light under even 'normal' conditions
[23:54] <NigeyS> ohh
[23:54] <Morseman> I do have a good path to NW Scotland on 23cm from here despite what it says on heywhatsthat
[23:56] <Morseman> for balloons you also need to take into account their height above ground as well, of course
[23:57] <Morseman> NigeyS for RF take a increase in range over 'visual' paths of about 2/3 more distance
[23:58] <Morseman> But... If UHF conditions are 'up' then you can get a lot more than that
[00:00] --- Sun Mar 4 2012