highaltitude.log.20120301

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[00:11] <eroomde> just been having dinner out with a lovely person
[00:11] <eroomde> two sentence summary of apex?
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> Sploosh.
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> Floaty sploosh.
[00:13] <daveake> North Sea Club
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> Diddn't burst as was expected, so floated towards the netherlands, and landed 100km or so offshore.
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> Last position at ~3km
[00:16] <eroomde> thanks
[00:16] <eroomde> what was the payload mass doyaknow?
[00:16] <SpeedEvil> Some new people though on tracking!
[00:17] <eroomde> like who?
[00:18] <daveake> Payload guesstimate 2kg. Wasn't actually measured
[00:19] <eroomde> wow
[00:19] <eroomde> that's a big floater
[00:19] <eroomde> wow south london has lots of listeners
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> DUTCH_MILL and PD3EM_shack
[00:21] <eroomde> cool
[00:21] <eroomde> very impressive some of the ranges people can routinely get now
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> UPU got some silly skips again.
[00:22] <eroomde> he's just a poo head
[00:22] <eroomde> he does some woowoo to the atmosphere around him
[00:24] <Darkside> lol
[00:25] <daveake> lol
[00:25] <daveake> Here it was OK for a while, then Upu did his woowoo and I struggled
[00:25] <eroomde> my greatest insights into physics come after a bottle of wine, you know
[00:25] <daveake> I can believe it
[00:26] <daveake> Speaking of Upu, I have one of his uBlox boards w/ teeny weeny gps antenna. Here it is attached to an Arduino Mini Pro - http://imgur.com/I9wS3
[00:26] <eroomde> ridicalusly small
[00:27] <daveake> No, I have giant thumbs :p
[00:27] <Darkside> yeah thats just getting ridiculous
[00:27] <Darkside> getting way too easy to make pico payloads now :P
[00:27] <daveake> That's what this will be soon
[00:28] <daveake> His board weighs 1.5g
[00:28] <eroomde> picopayloads with sstv
[00:28] <eroomde> gumstix is 5.5g!
[00:29] <eroomde> this excites me
[00:29] <Darkside> you don't need a gumstix for sstv
[00:29] <Darkside> 4dsystems make little cameras that output sstv audio
[00:29] <NigeyS> meh why do the MCPS make their licensing tiers so bloody complicated :(
[00:30] <Darkside> but you would need more output power
[00:30] <daveake> gumstix heavy on batteries though?
[00:32] <MLow-werk> http://imgur.com/I9wS3
[00:32] <MLow-werk> damn putty
[00:34] <eroomde> daveake: relatively, yep
[00:34] <eroomde> but meh
[00:35] <daveake> Reason I mention it is that the batteries are going to be the heaviest part of a pico payload
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[00:42] <eroomde> any launches this weekend?
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[00:46] <daveake> Not that I know of
[00:47] <daveake> My next is 24th March, all being well
[00:47] <eroomde> i will hopefully have one in a coupla weeks
[00:48] <eroomde> hedgehog v0.1
[00:48] <eroomde> plus silly photos
[00:48] <daveake> Where?
[00:48] <eroomde> work if i can get a notam
[00:48] <eroomde> camb if not, probably
[00:48] <eroomde> but qwould really like oxfordshire
[00:49] <daveake> If it's work, mind if I come along?
[00:49] <daveake> btw Upu is coming down for my launch
[00:50] <daveake> I've asked for 2 flights. One will be this tiny gps probably
[00:50] <eroomde> no not at all
[00:50] <eroomde> it's strictly hobby
[00:50] <eroomde> just with work people
[00:50] <eroomde> some of the guys have expressed an interest in launching a balloon, tis all
[00:51] <eroomde> and i have a flight computer what needs flyin
[00:51] <daveake> Works out well then
[00:52] <eroomde> yep
[00:52] <eroomde> i quite want to put my none mass sensitive flight computer in a sexy box
[00:52] <eroomde> with mil-spec circular connectors breaking out power and uart and icsp
[00:53] <Darkside> hah eroomde
[00:53] <Darkside> so the connectors are what, 100g each?
[00:53] <eroomde> but that would be £100 on connectors
[00:53] <Darkside> hehe
[00:54] <Guest9017> 100quid ? :o bloody eck
[00:54] <Darkside> i've been looking for some mil-spec connectors to interface with a codan radio i'm borrowing from a friend
[00:54] <Darkside> and yeah, fucking expensive connectors
[00:54] <eroomde> that's how much good connectors cost
[00:54] <eroomde> from about £30 for both sides
[00:55] <eroomde> Darkside: 62GB is the series i use
[00:55] <eroomde> or the black 'non military' version which is identical
[00:55] <Darkside> dunno that one
[00:55] <eroomde> except black rather than olive drab
[00:55] <eroomde> and so looks super sexy
[00:55] <Darkside> the one i'm needing is some 19-pin thing
[00:56] <Darkside> uploading a pic
[00:56] <eroomde> you can get that is the 62GB series
[00:56] <eroomde> well, maybe not 19 but probably 20
[00:56] <eroomde> oh i see sorry, you have a specific spec
[00:57] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/e5KnM.jpg
[00:58] <eroomde> on the right?
[00:58] <Darkside> yup
[00:58] <eroomde> try an amphenol brochure
[00:58] <eroomde> infact do try the 62GB
[00:58] <eroomde> not sure what shell size, maybe 16 or something
[00:58] <Darkside> i have a model number somewhere
[00:58] <Darkside> its an amphenol thing
[00:58] <Darkside> and costs about AUD$50 each
[00:58] <eroomde> well, go for it then
[00:59] <Darkside> hehe
[00:59] <eroomde> get a plug
[00:59] <Darkside> i think a friend has some of them
[00:59] <eroomde> that's not a bad price
[00:59] <Darkside> but yeah, i want to do data on the radio
[00:59] <eroomde> good connectors are worth it
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[01:11] <eroomde> here are 4 i made today
[01:11] <eroomde> https://dl.dropbox.com/0/view/lgbveonv3n5t2rl/Photo%2029-02-2012%2014%2007%2013.jpg
[01:11] <eroomde> board to case
[01:11] <Darkside> oh nice
[01:12] <Darkside> mil-spec to.... not mil spec
[01:12] <Darkside> :P
[01:12] <_Hix> :D
[01:13] <_Hix> HAB Spec Better!
[01:13] <eroomde> it's all a function of how it's used
[01:13] <Darkside> hehe
[01:13] <_Hix> oo err
[01:13] <eroomde> the molex ones should probably not have more than 3 or 4 cycles in their entire service life
[01:13] <eroomde> the mil-spec circulars on the case might have hundreds
[01:13] <Darkside> hahahaa
[01:14] <Darkside> good lord, 4 cycles from a molex connector?
[01:14] <Darkside> is that all?
[01:14] <Darkside> hmm i;d better head into uni
[01:14] <Darkside> there might be some people from the sydney hackerspace dropping into this irc channel sometime today
[01:15] <Darkside> they're going through the 'OMG LETS DROP A GLIDER FROM A BALLOON' phase at the moment
[01:15] <Darkside> which they should come out of in a few days
[01:15] <SpeedEvil> Go dutch!
[01:15] <eroomde> it's a phase
[01:15] <SpeedEvil> Drop a gilder from a balloon.
[01:15] <Darkside> they're also talkin gabout making their own balloons
[01:15] <Darkside> before ever having launched a high altitude balloon
[01:16] <eroomde> 'drop a glider from a balloon' does sound like a passable imitation of skateboarding speak
[01:16] <Darkside> they also didn't know about the burst calculator, or the predictor
[01:16] <Darkside> so yeah
[01:16] <Darkside> n00bs
[01:16] <Darkside> anyway, time to head into uni
[01:16] <eroomde> you can sort them out
[01:16] <Darkside> back on later
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[01:26] <Zuph> eroomde: Send me your address, and I'll try to get some of Kentucky's finest past customs.
[01:27] <eroomde> now that's an offer
[01:27] <eroomde> what is it that you want in return - some of scotland's?
[01:28] <eroomde> my addy is:
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[01:28] <eroomde> 44 Bridge Street, Oxford, Great Britain
[01:28] <Zuph> eroomde: Sounds like a fair trade if I've ever heard one.
[01:28] <eroomde> remind me of this discussion tomorrow though
[01:29] <Zuph> heh, been indulging a bit in scotlands finest? :-p
[01:31] <eroomde> had dinner in london
[01:31] <eroomde> just of bus back to oxford
[01:31] <eroomde> it's 1.30AM local
[01:31] <eroomde> about 10 mins from home
[01:32] <eroomde> it was a wine place
[01:32] <eroomde> right gtg
[01:32] <eroomde> ttyl
[01:32] <Zuph> heh
[01:32] <Zuph> ttyl
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[01:54] <MLow-werk> the UK pfff
[01:54] <MLow-werk> you guys and your fake time and money
[01:58] <daveake> time is an illusion
[01:58] <daveake> so's money come to think of it
[01:58] <Darkside> lunchtime doubly so
[01:59] <Zuph> Ticking away the moments that make up the dull day?
[01:59] <Zuph> Money, it's a crime?
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[02:15] <MLow-werk> hitchhikers
[02:15] <MLow-werk> hate em
[02:33] <daveake> That's the tracker done and running. Arduino Mini Pro, RFM22B, BMP085, DS18B20, uBlox 6 w/ that tiny antenna. 7.05g
[02:33] <daveake> Just needs antenna, power, insulation :)
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[03:01] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[04:06] Nick change: MLow-werk -> MLow
[04:06] <MLow> double shifts SUCK
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[07:02] <costyn> moaning
[07:02] <x-f> mooning
[07:03] <x-f> so it didn't float to continent this time sadly
[07:04] <costyn> SpeedEvil: Dutch_mill has been around for a while, and PD3EM was tracking on sunday too, so not quite newcomers.
[07:04] <costyn> no unfortunately not
[07:04] <costyn> if so I'd've been happy to go pick it up
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[07:05] <costyn> RS has a press release about being "slashdotted" yesterday http://www.electrocomponents.com/media/press-releases/2012/02/29th/
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[07:32] <Upu> morning
[07:35] <Upu> interesting new balloon supplier on the Wiki, looks like link has been put on by the supplier themselves
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[07:40] <costyn> heh
[07:41] <costyn> looks like they're from India
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[07:43] <PD3EM_work> morning
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[08:02] <cuddykid> mining morning
[08:03] <cuddykid> nope, despite what autocorrect says, I'm not mining this morning
[08:07] <cuddykid> damn HK post! - please say there tracking info is not right, I wanted to get the boards soldered up this weeked
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[08:08] <costyn> cuddykid: you are pretty anxious to get that package eh? :)
[08:09] <costyn> o yea you have a notam which needs a launch :)
[08:14] <cuddykid> costyn: yeah - I'm aiming for sometime in April, but nothing yet is done with the new tracker, hence I want to get it and solder it up!
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[08:14] <cuddykid> plus - I doubt if I'll be able to solder it :S
[08:14] <cuddykid> lol
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[08:32] <daveake> Damn, morning already. Why can't they be late sometimes?
[08:33] <cuddykid> happy march
[08:35] <daveake> New tracker using Upu's uBlox breakout board with the teeny weeny antenna: http://imgur.com/a/0MDAV#0
[08:36] <cuddykid> very nice
[08:36] <daveake> 7.5g
[08:36] <cuddykid> :O
[08:36] <daveake> Just add power, UHF antenna, insulation
[08:36] <cuddykid> just need to find a nice stub antenna for radio
[08:37] <daveake> Remind me later, I'll take a look. Think I have one. Got it from RS or Farnell or CPC.
[08:37] <cuddykid> wouldn't this work - ramp up the power a bit (accidentally of course) - and stick a stub on - should be the same quality receive on the ground?
[08:38] <daveake> Surely it's ERP that's limited so that's OK anyway?
[08:39] <cuddykid> what's ERP?
[08:39] <daveake> Effective Radiated Power
[08:39] <daveake> I don't know, but check.
[08:40] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[08:40] <cuddykid> Im just thinking of this for the glider- may do better than the pcb
[08:45] <cuddykid> lecture time - bbl
[08:49] <daveake> Apparently the Raspberry Pi sold out by 8am yesterday
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[08:55] <costyn> daveake: woa, sweet!
[08:55] <costyn> daveake: I mean your tiny tiny tracker
[08:56] <daveake> Of course :)
[08:56] <costyn> looks very fiddly
[08:56] <daveake> A single PCB would be smaller/neater/lighter and more robust, but I'm pleased with this.
[08:56] <daveake> Yes, very fiddly. Had to pull 2 boards off after I started because I forgot to solder some wires in the gap between them :D
[08:56] <costyn> heh
[08:57] <costyn> the bottom view shows the rfm22b?
[08:57] <daveake> Yes
[08:57] <daveake> Ran it all last night (like 2am. I'm tired now :-)
[08:58] <daveake> Ran nicely at 300 baud
[08:58] <costyn> very very cool
[08:58] <daveake> How come 300 baud was slow when I was doing stuff 30 years ago, but it's fast now? :p
[08:58] <costyn> hehe
[08:59] <costyn> so no breakout for the rfm, just soldered the wires to the gaps in the side?
[08:59] <costyn> (not sure what they're called)
[09:00] <daveake> Yep. I use header pins to connect the boards physically and to make some of the electrical connections
[09:00] <daveake> The rfm uses 2mm pitch though not 0.1", but that's OK for just 2 pins next to each other
[09:03] <costyn> clever
[09:03] <daveake> Off to get car MOT'd
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[09:25] <upix> heloo
[09:25] <upix> who's baloon is on the map?
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[09:36] <fsphil> upix, Buzz? THat'll be daveake testing
[09:37] <upix> will it be launched?
[09:37] <fsphil> not today
[09:37] <fsphil> but eventually
[09:37] <upix> waiting for the right weather?
[09:39] <costyn> upix: he still has to figure out power and antenna and insulation
[09:40] <upix> oh
[09:40] <upix> on average how many baloons are lifted per month (by all habers)
[09:41] <PD3EM_work> is it an idea to have a link on the map to the projects website?
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[10:03] <cuddykid> back
[10:04] <costyn> upix: maybe 3 or 4
[10:04] <costyn> upix: that's in UK mostly
[10:04] <costyn> PD3EM_work: not all projects have a website
[10:07] <cuddykid> hmm - I'm send Will a text, he was planning to launch this weekend
[10:10] <cuddykid> no HK post for me today - I'm starting to get withdrawel symptoms, the lack of HAB post!
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[10:29] <fsphil> parcel addiction is a terrible thing
[10:30] <daveake> You need to go to rehab
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[10:31] <fsphil> the bad puns are just ballooning recently
[10:31] <Hix> I'm not liking the increasing volume of punnage
[10:32] <gonzo_> just your inflated ego
[10:32] <gonzo_> sorry, just trying to lift the conversation
[10:32] <gonzo_> and not pressure you
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[10:33] <gonzo_> (I'll get my coat!)
[10:33] <fsphil> we need to burst this bubble as soon as possible
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[10:36] <costyn> eh, whatever floats your boat
[10:37] <upix> is anyone searching for yesterdays baloon?
[10:38] <fsphil> not really upix
[10:38] <fsphil> they'll probably wait for someone to find it if it washes up on a beach
[10:39] <upix> pitty
[10:39] <fsphil> yea
[10:39] <fsphil> if it had been closer to the coast they might have tried
[10:39] <upix> would sms help in this instance
[10:40] <Darkside> unlikely
[10:40] <Darkside> it landed in the ocean
[10:41] <daveake> A SpoT satellite tracker would be the only hope of knowing the location that far out. Actually getting to it would be a bigger problem
[10:44] <costyn> so... anyone have a bnc male to sma female connector they could part with? I got a nice Yagi from Tim, but has a SMA connector which isn't much good on my 817
[10:44] <daveake> Remove the SMA and put a BNC on it?
[10:45] <Hix> There is another way - iridium or inmarsat phone guts on a board with a satellite antenna
[10:45] <costyn> daveake: it's really thin coax... no idea what kind of bnc connector to get
[10:45] <daveake> Replace the coax then :)
[10:45] <costyn> daveake: could do that yes :)
[10:45] <daveake> If it's long too that'll be quite lossy
[10:46] <costyn> daveake: ok, i'll keep that in mind. I have some RG174 which might be nice to use
[10:46] <daveake> Hix Yes you can get satellite modems that would also do it
[10:46] <daveake> RG174 is thin
[10:46] <eroomde> moaning all
[10:47] <daveake> moaning ed
[10:47] <costyn> yes, but at least I know what it is so I can order a correct bnc for it; or would you recommend thicker coax?
[10:48] <daveake> Depends how long the cable is. There are tables and calculators online. RG58 is flexible enough and lower loss than RG174.
[10:48] <daveake> But if it's a short length, don't worry about it
[10:48] <costyn> ok thx
[10:49] <daveake> ping Upu or UpuWork
[10:52] <Hix> daveake any links?
[10:53] <gonzo_> lots of adaptors on fleebay
[10:53] <daveake> Hix The satellite modem? Dan uses one of these - http://www.iridium.com/products/Iridium9602.aspx
[10:53] <gonzo_> then you still have the option of using the sma in future
[10:54] <daveake> I did that for BNC --> PL259 for my Watson, but BNC is useful (fits my receivers). SMA doesn't seem too useful to me for UHF
[10:55] <costyn> gonzo_: thx, good tip, always cheap to order stuff from hongkong and china ; I always wonder how they manage to make items cheap and still offer fre shipping... guess the quality is shit or the markup of European shops is ridiculous
[10:55] <Hix> daveake, ouch nearly £400 - but then again payloads can be worth a lot too....
[10:55] <daveake> Hix Dan gets them a lot cheaper than that
[10:55] <eroomde> I put an N type on everything
[10:55] <gonzo_> sma is a good little connector
[10:55] <eroomde> then that means you'll always have the option of sticking 100W into it
[10:55] <Darkside> eroomde: niice
[10:55] <eroomde> then couple down to smaller things as needed
[10:56] <eroomde> or dreaded fugly PL259
[10:56] <gonzo_> eroomde, me too, even HF
[10:56] <Darkside> i need to convert everything in my radio shack to N...
[10:56] <daveake> Sure but if you always need to put an adapter on it, why keep it?
[10:56] <Hix> cuddykid, SMD guide here http://widerimage.co.uk/docs/Low_Cost_SMD_Soldering_Guide.pdf
[10:56] <eroomde> just futureproofing
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[10:56] <gonzo_> you can file the lugs off a square mount N type for the back of your yaesu
[10:57] <Darkside> eroomde: so i guess you have adaptors on your icom?
[10:57] <eroomde> yes
[10:57] <eroomde> i don't really know why it comes with PL259 on it
[10:57] <gonzo_> (I do use bnz for IF patching though)
[10:57] <gonzo_> bnc
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[10:57] <eroomde> for a rig that's meant to be uhf as much as anything else
[10:58] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah its dumb that they put SO239 on it..
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[10:59] <upix> is there any reasoning for choosing 434Mhz instead of 144
[10:59] <Darkside> upix: are you in the UK?
[10:59] <eroomde> there happens to be, in the uk, an exemption that lets us fly 434mhx 10mW in the air
[10:59] <eroomde> there's no such thing for 144 MHz
[10:59] <upix> Darkside: no, eastern europe
[10:59] <eroomde> so that's the only reason, really
[10:59] <Darkside> oh, then go nuts
[10:59] <Darkside> lol
[11:00] <upix> why?
[11:00] <Darkside> i mean
[11:00] <Darkside> you can do whatever the hell you want there
[11:00] <upix> I'll keep that in mind
[11:00] <Darkside> but 10mW at 434MHz does work pretty damn well
[11:01] <Darkside> if you're chasing the payload, you don't need much more than that
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[11:02] <upix> is there a way to switch between different powers. say at first do 10mW then go like 25 or so
[11:02] <costyn> upix: would be good to find out from a local radio amateur exactly what you can and can't do; even though it's Eastern Europe you can still get into trouble with the law hehe
[11:02] <Darkside> upix: with the RFM22B modules, yes
[11:02] <Darkside> i've been considering having it drop down in output power as it increases in altitude, then increase the power on landing
[11:03] <eroomde> you can obviously make such a thing yourself but if you want something black-box, you can buy variable gain power amps for your Tx
[11:03] <Darkside> eroomde: the RFM22Bs look to be a good replacement for the radiometrix modules
[11:03] <Darkside> they still have the drift problems
[11:03] <eroomde> no they don't
[11:03] <upix> costyn: I've found info on our communication regulation department webpage
[11:03] <Darkside> eroomde: oh?
[11:04] <eroomde> unless you want to limit yourself to huge shifts
[11:04] <Darkside> erm
[11:04] <eroomde> like rtty style 300Hz+
[11:04] <costyn> upix: good
[11:04] <Darkside> uhh yeah eroomde
[11:04] <Darkside> i'd be fine with a 600hz shift if it means i pay half the price and get an uplink included
[11:05] <eroomde> but having the vco on the ntx2 is like sitting on a goldmine
[11:05] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah, the NTX2s are good for that kind of experimentation
[11:05] <eroomde> well, we've designed built and flown uplinks before, and simplex really is a pain in the bum, to put it mildly
[11:05] <eroomde> i'd much rather have a separate uplink on 2m or something
[11:05] <Darkside> eroomde: eh?
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[11:06] <Darkside> i'm thinking if we use the same radio for uplink and downlink, we match the uplink radio with the shift we see on the downlink
[11:06] <Darkside> i mean, the frequency drift
[11:06] <eroomde> that much is true certainly
[11:06] <eroomde> but i'm not sure that's enough of a gain to justify simplex
[11:06] <Darkside> im my case i'm lookign for something we can replace the radiometrix modules with for our 'standard' telemetry payloads
[11:07] <Darkside> so we can include an uplink for cutdown capability in our standard telemetry payload
[11:07] <Darkside> this isn't for an experimental payload, i want this for our 'final' payload
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[11:07] <eroomde> i'd be tempted by some kind of dtmf thing
[11:07] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[11:07] <eroomde> so you can do it with a handy
[11:07] <Darkside> yeah we were considering that eroomde
[11:08] <Darkside> but we always have the gear to do fancier uplinks anyway
[11:08] <Darkside> hell, 2 of our cars are using IC-706MKIIG's as the receive radio
[11:08] <Darkside> wouldn't be hard to use the same radio
[11:08] <eroomde> you'll appreciate full duplex is all, i think
[11:09] <Darkside> what do you mean
[11:09] <Darkside> you mean like a xbee style link?
[11:09] <eroomde> having to have lots of timing constraints is jolly annoying
[11:09] <Darkside> uhmmmm
[11:09] <eroomde> i mean so you can uplink wheneve3r you want
[11:09] <Darkside> oh
[11:09] <Darkside> i had plans for that actually
[11:09] <eroomde> rather than having to wait for the downlink to stop and switch the radio into listen mode
[11:09] <Darkside> at the end of every sentence check the RSSI
[11:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonsowman, priyesh, danielsaul and the Apex team: sorry that I wasn't here last night, only saw the flight at about 3 am in the morning when I got up from my headache
[11:10] <eroomde> we had all sorts of gsp time displicined transmitting and listening windows for the esa thing
[11:10] <Darkside> if its noticably higher than the previous check, then wait one period for a sentence
[11:10] <Darkside> eroomde: we're fine with having receive windows
[11:11] <Darkside> if it means cutting down noticably on the cost
[11:11] <Darkside> particulatly as our cutdown pcb is likely going to be a throwaway device
[11:11] <Darkside> something tiny that sits above the parachute, and cuts the line below it
[11:12] <Darkside> wouldn't even have a gps, but it would continue beaconing after cutdown, so if we feel like a challenge we can foxhunt it
[11:12] <eroomde> well, good luck then
[11:13] <upix> what's the record for payload weight?
[11:13] <Darkside> but even on the main payload - we use 300 baud, i'm not fussed if we loose a sentence now and then
[11:13] <Darkside> upix: jcoxon has done some insane payloads
[11:13] <eroomde> upix: biggest or smallest?
[11:14] <upix> biggest
[11:14] <Darkside> ahh :P
[11:14] <Darkside> eroomde: holds that honour
[11:14] <eroomde> erm, probably us
[11:14] <eroomde> i suspect
[11:14] <eroomde> by quite a margin
[11:14] <daveake> "honour"? :p
[11:14] <Darkside> with your ORANGE MISSILE OF DEATH
[11:14] <eroomde> but let's not talk about that on here
[11:14] <Darkside> oh
[11:14] <Darkside> >_>
[11:14] <upix> but what was the weight
[11:14] <eroomde> heavy enough
[11:15] <upix> a ton?
[11:15] <eroomde> oh god no
[11:15] <eroomde> i mean, nasa do things like that
[11:15] <eroomde> not 4 undergrads in a summer holiday
[11:15] <Darkside> upix: i have a funny video you might like
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> hi upix, you are new right?
[11:15] <upix> share
[11:15] <eroomde> i know what this'll be
[11:15] <upix> yes i am new
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> from where?
[11:15] <costyn> upix: see http://arhab.org/ and the records tab
[11:15] <upix> lithuania
[11:15] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoNVCqUMW4A
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[11:15] <daveake> Nasa - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGjdV3j-d3g
[11:15] <Darkside> check that out upix
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> new country!
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[11:16] <eroomde> upix: usually in ukhas, the most people ever launch would be about 3kg
[11:16] <Darkside> off daveake
[11:16] <Darkside> pff
[11:16] <eroomde> more than that and you start getting sharp intakes of breath
[11:16] <Darkside> i linked the ABC version
[11:16] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: do you know the german word for Nose?
[11:16] <daveake> :)
[11:16] <daveake> You're about to tell me
[11:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, it's "Nase"
[11:16] <Lunar_Lander> so it is quite funny to refer to someone's nose and call it "Nasa"
[11:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[11:17] <daveake> Who said the Germans don't have humour? :p
[11:17] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[11:19] <upix> it was nice seeing solar panels shattering :)
[11:19] <upix> shetter*
[11:19] <upix> shatter*
[11:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[11:19] <Lunar_Lander> upix: the accident report for that is about 500 pages long
[11:19] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC
[11:19] <Lunar_Lander> if we talk about the Alice Springs balloon crash
[11:19] <Darkside> yeah we are Lunar_Lander
[11:19] <Lunar_Lander> (don't have flash installed currently)
[11:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[11:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah the report is 480 pp or so
[11:20] <upix> is it "Dont ever trust fucking weather forecast" on every page?
[11:20] <Hix> :D
[11:22] <upix> http://arhab.org/# the record for heaviest payload is 152 grams
[11:22] <upix> i dont get it
[11:22] <Darkside> upix: the arhab records are a bit outdated
[11:22] <eroomde> they must be confused
[11:22] <Darkside> and yeah
[11:22] <Darkside> that site is a bit weird
[11:22] <Darkside> excessive use of javascript too
[11:22] <daveake> Americans don't understand metric
[11:23] <upix> so to my understanding there is ARHAB and UKHAS communities?
[11:23] <upix> or are there more
[11:23] <eroomde> broadly
[11:24] <eroomde> in terms of weight on the internet those are the two main ones
[11:24] <eroomde> UKHAS being much more recent but, we'd like to think, a bit more dynamic and with nicer werb apps :)
[11:25] <eroomde> the nominal difference between the two is geographic
[11:25] <eroomde> arhab used to be almost all US
[11:25] <eroomde> UKHAS, well the clue is in the name
[11:25] <eroomde> but ukhas now is a lot more international
[11:25] <Darkside> EuroHAS?
[11:25] <eroomde> incorporating lots of UK colonies like australia
[11:25] <upix> CanIHas?
[11:25] <Darkside> eroomde: pff
[11:26] <eroomde> :p
[11:26] <Darkside> bugger off
[11:26] <Darkside> bring on the republic of australia
[11:26] <daveake> EmpireHAS
[11:26] <upix> ARHAB has losts of members
[11:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD upix I haven't read the report to be honest
[11:26] <upix> do they do launches often
[11:26] <eroomde> fairly often
[11:27] <Darkside> upix: theres a lot of amateur radio operators in the US
[11:27] <Lunar_Lander> upix I once suggested EUROBALLOON
[11:27] <Lunar_Lander> or EUROASCENT
[11:27] <Lunar_Lander> after burst, control is transferred to the Brussels center EURODESCENT
[11:28] <eroomde> hohoho
[11:28] <Lunar_Lander> pickup is then done by EURORECOVERY
[11:28] <x-f> those EUROBURSTOCRATES..
[11:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[11:28] <Lunar_Lander> btw, no joke, the Ariane 5 boosters are made in Italy by EUROPROPULSION
[11:29] <eroomde> basically as long as a job for one small team is spread completely unecessarily among 6 teams each in a different country, it'll be ok
[11:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[11:29] <Lunar_Lander> but it is cool that we now have a baltic section too!
[11:30] <daveake> eroomde, Yeah, we need to get payload parts built in 3 separate countries then sent to a fourth for assembly.
[11:30] <upix> http://www.cusf.co.uk/ - is this a club or like a department
[11:30] <daveake> Then launched ina fifth and collected in a sixth
[11:30] <eroomde> a club
[11:30] <eroomde> entirely student run in spare time
[11:31] <eroomde> and funded by donations, sponsorship etc
[11:31] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: and the people building it
[11:31] <Lunar_Lander> they have white dresses and caps and stuff and mouth things and the room is dust free and everyone has a earthing cable
[11:31] <Lunar_Lander> and then everything is wrapped in gold foil
[11:31] <upix> Lunar_Lander: what do you mean by have?
[11:32] <Lunar_Lander> they wear that
[11:32] <Darkside> i totally want to make a payload with a gold plated pcb sometime
[11:32] <x-f> Lunar_Lander, i'm from Baltics too
[11:32] <eroomde> it's nice
[11:32] <Lunar_Lander> upix: have you ever seen a satellite assembly line?
[11:32] <eroomde> v nice to solder onto
[11:32] <upix> Lunar_Lander: not really
[11:32] <Lunar_Lander> oh cool x-f, Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia?
[11:32] <upix> Darkside: it would be stolen in midair :D
[11:32] <eroomde> lurricanes lardly ever lappen
[11:32] <x-f> Lunar, Latvia
[11:32] <Lunar_Lander> upix: everything must be really clean so everyone is dressed like doctors in a surgery room
[11:32] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[11:33] <Laurenceb> anyone here used gerbmerg?
[11:33] <upix> Lunar_Lander: what does it have to do with baltic countries?
[11:34] <Lunar_Lander> upix: no, I meant daveake when he said that we have to build our payloads in four countries :)
[11:34] <upix> oh
[11:34] <Lunar_Lander> before I meant that I am happy about every new country :)
[11:35] <Lunar_Lander> upix: and the satellite thing: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Mars_Pathfinder_Lander_preparations.jpg
[11:35] <upix> btw any suggestions where to get a cheap radio station capable of SSB on 434 like yaesu, but which would cost less than 200¬ with shipping
[11:35] <upix> Lunar_Lander: oh ya i've seen that
[11:36] <Darkside> upix: look for handheld scanners
[11:36] <Darkside> an Icom IC-R10 would work well
[11:36] <eroomde> AOR8000?
[11:36] <Darkside> yeah or an AOR scanner
[11:36] <Darkside> Yupitery MVT7100
[11:36] <Darkside> Yupiteru*
[11:36] <eroomde> they won't be as good though
[11:36] <upix> do they have a decent quality?
[11:37] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside: did you test the MVT7100?
[11:37] <eroomde> if you want to do these 500+km receptions, get the yeasu
[11:37] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: i used one once
[11:37] <daveake> I've used an AR8000 for mt launches, and tracking others. It's been fine but the Yaesu is better
[11:37] <Darkside> then got an Icom IC-R10
[11:37] <Lunar_Lander> did it work well?
[11:37] <Darkside> mmm
[11:37] <Darkside> about as good as the R10
[11:37] <Lunar_Lander> because I have a Stabo XR100
[11:37] <Lunar_Lander> that I read is similar to the MVT7100
[11:37] <Darkside> no idea
[11:37] <Lunar_Lander> but then I found a FT-790R
[11:37] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[11:37] <Darkside> heh
[11:37] <Darkside> upix: you could use a funcube dongle
[11:38] <Darkside> i wonder how much they are now
[11:38] <upix> what?
[11:38] <Darkside> upix: a funcube dongle is a small software defined radio
[11:38] <Darkside> its sensitivity isnt the best
[11:38] <Darkside> but they are small and pretty cheap
[11:38] <Darkside> i still need to make up a preamp + filter PCB for one of those..
[11:41] <Darkside> not sure how much current the bias-T on that thing can supply...
[11:42] <Lunar_Lander> wow the Mars Pathfinder photo is 6 MB!
[11:42] <eroomde> link?
[11:43] <Lunar_Lander> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Mars_Pathfinder_Lander_preparations.jpg
[11:43] <upix> and the quality isnt that good
[11:44] <Hix> looks like a film scan to me 5Mb of noise and grain capture
[11:44] <x-f> it has spikes on its wheels
[11:44] <Darkside> you can tell from some of teh grains
[11:44] <Darkside> and seeing quite a fre in your time
[11:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[11:45] <upix> it'd be funny to hear "oops" there
[11:45] <Lunar_Lander> the thing was built in 1996
[11:45] <eroomde> 6MB
[11:45] <eroomde> wow
[11:45] <Lunar_Lander> so probably wasn't a digital photo then
[11:45] <eroomde> that must be all that noise adding entropy
[11:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[11:45] <daveake> Build of a tracker using Upu's uBlox breakout board - http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=310
[11:46] <Darkside> dammit we all use the same wordpress theme
[11:46] <Hix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_scanner
[11:46] <fsphil> I don't :)
[11:46] <Lunar_Lander> compare to https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/MSL_DescentStage.jpg
[11:47] <daveake> Darkside lol
[11:47] <daveake> Lunar_Lander Why am I reminded of .. http://blogs.amctv.com/future-of-classic/woody-sex.jpg ? (safe link)
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[11:48] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL yeah that scene was so hilarious
[11:48] <Lunar_Lander> "I was told that some of us hit a rubber wall"
[11:48] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[11:49] <upix> daveake: solder everything on thin copper write and ductape
[11:49] <Lunar_Lander> hi Jessica_Lily
[11:49] <upix> that will reduce wiight even more
[11:49] <upix> wire*
[11:50] <Lunar_Lander> Jessica_Lily: we are currently discussing the most advanced car of our time
[11:50] <upix> my typing is terrible
[11:50] <Lunar_Lander> the Curiosity Mars Rover
[11:50] <Jessica_Lily> o
[11:51] <eroomde> Oh hurry up multimeter man
[11:51] <eroomde> i bought my multimeter aaaaages ago
[11:51] <eroomde> still not here
[11:52] <Lunar_Lander> btw daveake I read on habhub that the postman put the mail into the cat flap?
[11:52] <upix> btw how come you cant see any starts in the photos. they should be bright and clear when theres no atmosphere
[11:52] <Lunar_Lander> earth is too bright
[11:53] <Lunar_Lander> same as the thing that there are no stars on the moon photos
[11:53] <Lunar_Lander> the apollo photos I mean
[11:53] <upix> what if camera pointed upwards
[11:53] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[11:53] <fsphil> if it was steady enough and the exposure was long enough
[11:54] <Hix> generally the exposure time to get the moon correctly exposed is too short to collect photons from stars moon ~1/125th second stars >3seconds
[11:54] <fsphil> and there where no objects reflecting sunlight into the view
[11:54] <fsphil> I think I remember some photos of venus
[11:54] <fsphil> but then it's really bright
[11:54] <daveake> erooomde That the Fluke averaging one?
[11:54] <Hix> ... tempted
[11:54] <Hix> photos
[11:55] <Hix> Uranus
[11:55] <daveake> upix what photo?
[11:55] <upix> daveake: any photo
[11:55] <UpuWork> oh eroomde
[11:55] <UpuWork> thanks for my new MSN banner message
[11:55] <UpuWork> 00:22] <eroomde> he's just a poo head
[11:55] <UpuWork> [00:22] <eroomde> he does some woowoo to the atmosphere around him
[11:55] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[11:56] <fsphil> lol
[11:56] <Lunar_Lander> I know who said woowoo
[11:56] <Lunar_Lander> BRIAN COX
[11:56] <daveake> Looking at some of mine from my lastlaunch, as well as the moon there was a planet (Venus or Jupiter - I don't know which) and that's a single pixel on my screen
[11:56] Action: fsphil scrolls backwards
[11:56] <Darkside> UpuWork: ping
[11:56] <UpuWork> pong Darkside
[11:56] <Darkside> i was wondering if you could do a test for me
[11:56] <UpuWork> sure what you after
[11:56] <daveake> UpuWork lol
[11:56] <Darkside> MAX-6Q breakout with chip antenna
[11:56] <UpuWork> yes
[11:56] <Darkside> i want to see if it gets lock without the chip antenna
[11:57] <UpuWork> you know
[11:57] <fsphil> good test
[11:57] <Darkside> i'm concerned about teh chip antenna breaking due to thermal cycling stress
[11:57] <UpuWork> I was thinking this in the car
[11:57] <fsphil> pcb antenna
[11:57] <UpuWork> yup
[11:57] <Darkside> fsphil: yeah or that
[11:57] <UpuWork> however it is rated to -40'C
[11:57] <Darkside> UpuWork: it doesnt matter hwat its wated to
[11:57] <Darkside> rated*
[11:57] <Darkside> its the temperature cycling that matters
[11:57] <UpuWork> I'll make one up this afternoon with no antenna on it
[11:58] <UpuWork> now I need to get to the post office
[11:58] <Darkside> they might be cheap, but if the antenna cracks at 40km altitude..
[11:58] <Hix> UpuWork, can i just ignore SDA and SCL
[11:58] <UpuWork> yes
[11:58] <Hix> ok
[11:58] <UpuWork> its a fair point Darkside
[11:58] <UpuWork> James has one and so does daveake for testing
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[11:59] <UpuWork> I could actually not solder the top of them
[11:59] <UpuWork> so they can expand/contract
[11:59] <Darkside> i dunno if that would work
[11:59] <UpuWork> should do its NC
[11:59] <Darkside> but will it expand linearly
[12:00] <UpuWork> right I'll be back soon sorry need to shoot
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[12:00] <eroomde> daveake: yep the fluke one
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[12:02] <cuddykid> I'm going to have to bow down to eagle again - going to create another pcb this time using rfm22b
[12:02] <daveake> eroomde Wow, that's slower than m DS18B20s from London via China
[12:02] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: where did you order them?
[12:02] <Lunar_Lander> ebay?
[12:03] <eroomde> i know
[12:03] <eroomde> annoying
[12:03] <eroomde> woo but my eagle6 license is here
[12:03] <eroomde> back in the game
[12:03] <Lunar_Lander> I got several from the Maxim sample program
[12:03] <Darkside> booooo
[12:03] <Lunar_Lander> by politely asking
[12:03] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[12:04] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[12:04] <Lunar_Lander> COOL https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Atlas_V_541_into_the_flight.jpg
[12:04] <fsphil> eagles deserve to be free!
[12:04] <daveake> LL yeah, ebay, from dodgy "we ship from London" luying b**tard seller
[12:04] <daveake> lying
[12:04] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[12:04] <daveake> After several weeks I got a refund
[12:05] <daveake> 3 days later the parts arrived
[12:06] <cuddykid> this wait for my pcbs is killing me
[12:06] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: like this? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Apollo_11_Lunar_Module_Eagle_in_landing_configuration_in_lunar_orbit_from_the_Command_and_Service_Module_Columbia.jpg
[12:06] <cuddykid> looks like I won't be able to do anything this weekend again - annoying
[12:06] Action: fsphil receives a package from Farnell....
[12:06] <zyp> I bought an RC transmitter from ebay, didn't arrive, so I complained to the seller and he sent a new
[12:06] <fsphil> ... sadly not containing a little ARM based PC :)
[12:06] <daveake> I order PCBs from Newbury Electronics, just down the road from me
[12:06] <zyp> a couple of days later the first one arrived, so now I've got two
[12:06] <cuddykid> daveake: yeah, I'm going to hunt for a UK company next
[12:06] <daveake> fsphil Apparently they sold out by 6:30
[12:07] <fsphil> ooch
[12:07] <fsphil> I ordered at 8:30-osh
[12:07] <fsphil> ish
[12:07] <daveake> cuddykid pcbtrain.com
[12:07] <cuddykid> cheers
[12:07] <eroomde> daveake: directly or via pcbtrain?
[12:08] <daveake> pcbtrain is just their web site. A friend works for them so I keep meaning to get a discount that way
[12:08] <daveake> I can pick up from there to save on postage
[12:08] <zyp> I hear Laurenceb doesn't like pcbtrain
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[12:08] <daveake> Been fine for me
[12:09] <eroomde> we used them for badger2 and badgercub
[12:09] <eroomde> nice service
[12:09] <eroomde> though not the cheapest
[12:09] <daveake> Usually batches of 10-50 boards on 15-day turnaround
[12:09] <eroomde> but then we wanted 4 layer boards in 5 days
[12:09] <daveake> No, not the cheapest
[12:12] <Laurenceb> ive had loads of failures
[12:12] <Laurenceb> one even had a fumbprint over it
[12:12] <Laurenceb> *thumb
[12:12] <daveake> eek
[12:13] <Darkside> i've got a friend in shenzhen who's getting me cheaper than seeedstudio prices
[12:18] <Hix> bugger - thought I'd got everything sorted to build tracker - forgot the GSM module. Anyone got recommendsations for a cheap GSM module, don't necessarily need breakout with it
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[12:22] <kokey> Hix: ooh, I'd like the answer to that one too
[12:23] <daveake> I have some spare Lassen IQs but you'd probably need to supply your own antenna
[12:24] <Hix> daveake, isn't that a GPS?
[12:24] <daveake> Shit, dyslexia :p
[12:24] <daveake> Ignore me :-)
[12:24] <Hix> :D
[12:24] <daveake> Right, for GSM, look for Siemens modules
[12:24] <Hix> ok willdo
[12:25] <daveake> I have a Wavecom which I'm flying soon
[12:26] <Hix> http://proto-pic.co.uk/adh8066-gsm-module/ is turning up trumps at the noment
[12:27] Lunar_Lander (~gd-fermi@p54882EE1.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:27] <Hix> got loads of old phones kicking saround - wonder what's retreivable from them
[12:28] <costyn> Hix: Tim got an old Ericsson T68i working for one of his previous flights
[12:29] <daveake> Yes, those work, though they only support PDU SMS so you need some code for the conversion. I used a T39m last time, which has the same interface
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[12:30] <Hix> costyn, yeah saw. Unfortunately I just threw a T68i out 3 weeks ago :(
[12:30] <costyn> oops
[12:30] <Hix> Though ebay...
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[12:38] <kokey> last time I checked it seems like the most common cheap GSM phone is the nokia 6610i
[12:39] <kokey> you can get cheap RS232 cables for those
[12:39] <Hix> are they easily hackable? rememeber something about FBUS and MBUS? from back in the day
[12:40] <daveake> Oh you don't want to use those protocols :-)
[12:40] <Hix> surely just get a pinout and wire to contacts on mboard?
[12:40] <Hix> daveake, are they a mare
[12:40] <kokey> I think you can use it as an RS232 port and use AT commands to send SMS or use it like a modem, with an FBUS cable I think
[12:41] <Hix> when i just tabbed did all the d-named users appear on thhe htread? Did here
[12:41] <gonzo_> worth seeing if there is a cheap motorola M30 modem on fleebay. Just strip out the workings and lose the case
[12:41] <kokey> I think a switchable FBUS/MBUS cable is like £3 you can just rip one of those
[12:41] <daveake> http://www.embedtronics.com/nokia/fbus.html
[12:41] <gonzo_> they don't do gprs, so they go cheap. But do SMS np
[12:43] <daveake> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Custom-case-Raspberry-Pi-Model-B-professional-Recycled-/290677470826?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item43adba366a#ht_500wt_1413
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[12:44] <kokey> the 6610 does GPRS, and was very light
[12:45] <kokey> but dunno how much in comparison to modules
[12:45] <Hix> daveake, are the protocols bad then? if so why?
[12:45] <G0DJA> Anyone know if it's possible to connect FL-Digi direct to an SDR? Having problems running FL-Digi and an SDR program as it slows PC to a crawl
[12:45] <daveake> Standard text SMS is very easy; PDU is more work (because of the conversion); FBUS is binary so more work still
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[12:46] <Darkside> G0DJA: what SDR
[12:46] <daveake> But all have been done before; you should be able to get running fairly quickly using code from the web
[12:46] <Hix> oh ok so something that just uses at commands is low weight [code] and easy then? others involved?
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[12:46] <Darkside> if its one that gives IQ via an audio interface, then just feed that audio directly into fldigi
[12:46] <daveake> Yeah AT is easy peasy
[12:46] <Darkside> and it'll just take part of the bandwidth
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[12:47] <Darkside> In Valen's name!
[12:47] <Valen> just the man i wanted to talk to even!
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[12:47] <Hix> time saved on coding is proportional to the ^3 of the original cost :D
[12:47] <Darkside> oh lawd
[12:47] <Darkside> a sydney hackerspace guy
[12:47] <Valen> and gold star for not thinking it some kind of van halen reference, urgh non nerds as if
[12:47] <Valen> well technically no ;-P
[12:48] <Valen> not a member, they are the other side of sydney but anyway lol
[12:48] <Darkside> hah
[12:48] <Valen> i'm jake on their mailing list though
[12:48] <Hix> daveake, i've got a veritable store room full of Raspberry Pi cases in my passenger footwell
[12:48] <Hix> But nicer than the one on ebay
[12:49] <Darkside> Also something like that might be a good way to start on the project,
[12:49] <Darkside> if we can get GPS+beacon+airframe+brain under 50gm.
[12:49] <Darkside> bahahahaha
[12:49] <Darkside> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[12:49] <Darkside> good luck
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[12:49] <Valen> ...yeah
[12:49] <Valen> they arent what i'd call the most practical group
[12:49] <kokey> Darkside: if it was +battery that would have been funnier
[12:49] <Darkside> you will not get permission from casa to drop a glider from a balloon.
[12:49] <Darkside> it's seriously not happening.
[12:50] <Darkside> the only place you'd be able to do something like that is woomera
[12:50] <Valen> i'd say it'd be possible (for 50 grams), but it'd be an event in itself ;->
[12:50] <kokey>
[12:50] <Valen> i have launched a rocket out there
[12:50] <G0DJA> No these are USB connected SDRs (Perseus and SDR-IQ)
[12:50] Action: Valen makes stuff for asri
[12:50] <Darkside> G0DJA: yeah good luck then. i know thte problems
[12:50] <Darkside> Valen: ooh
[12:50] <Darkside> G0DJA: faster PC
[12:50] <G0DJA> Sort of got SpeectraVue to work without keep stopping and starting
[12:51] <Valen> 50 gram challenge would be an interesting challenge, aerogel is an airframe right? ;->
[12:51] <Darkside> Valen: haha
[12:51] <Valen> wouldn't need a chute ;->
[12:51] <Darkside> its enough of a challenge to get gps + transmitter + batteries under 50g
[12:51] <Darkside> anyway, how can i help :-)
[12:51] <Valen> oh i was just figuring i'd hang out and osmosis a little
[12:52] <G0DJA> Trying to remember what the typical RTTY settings for 20M - HI
[12:52] <Darkside> haha
[12:52] <Darkside> G0DJA: 45 baud, baudot?
[12:52] <G0DJA> Thanks
[12:52] <Darkside> maybe 45.45baud
[12:52] <Darkside> Valen: well anyway
[12:52] <Valen> wondering what the process was to get through casa, I've seen your wavers and such and i have a little flying experience but this is out of my field lol
[12:52] <Darkside> the process is making sure you speak to the right person at casa...
[12:53] <Darkside> i'm not sure who the right person is
[12:53] <kokey> Valen: got any exposure to steerable chutes?
[12:53] <Darkside> as juxta handles relations with CASA
[12:53] <Valen> heh sounds familiar from the hobby rocket days lol
[12:53] <Valen> kokey: a smidge, why?
[12:53] <G0DJA> Typical - no RTTY on 20M now - LOL
[12:53] <UpuWork> ping Lunar_Lander1
[12:53] <kokey> Valen: just looking for pre-made ones or a simple design that works
[12:54] <Lunar_Lander1> yes
[12:54] <G0DJA> Eventually want to feed 28MHz output from 70cm transveter into the SDR
[12:54] <Valen> i've heard of people using model parasails for them
[12:54] <Darkside> G0DJA: cool - we take the 10.7MHz IF from a IC-R7000
[12:54] <Valen> does casa want insurance or anything?
[12:54] <Darkside> Valen: uhmm not sure
[12:54] <Darkside> we're covered under a ham radio club
[12:54] <Darkside> i don't think they do though
[12:55] <Darkside> the chances of hitting something important is pretty damn low
[12:55] <Valen> that covers you for dropping a chute on a road? cool lol
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[12:55] <Darkside> but you *do* need to be careful
[12:55] <Darkside> bah, the parachutes we use are tiny
[12:55] <kokey> a bird would be more trouble to a car
[12:55] <Valen> people are generally stupid idiots though ;->
[12:55] Action: Valen tries not to over estimate the common man lol
[12:57] <Valen> i wonder if the "glider" could be called a fancy fall retarder and squeak past the "uav" regs that way
[12:57] <Darkside> i am wondering what the winds are like around sudney
[12:57] <Darkside> BAHAHAH
[12:57] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/predict/#!/uuid=7ba718314cc854bad8747f0d2385aa416b302641
[12:57] <Darkside> ok
[12:57] <Darkside> thats your problem
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[12:57] <Valen> it is, but then i am a glutton for punishment
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[12:58] <Valen> (its also in the plans for mk12 launch not mk1 ;-> mk1 is a kiddies ballon with a GI-Jo attached and a phone number on his ass for recovery)
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[12:58] <Darkside> lol
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[12:58] <Darkside> i think theres anotehr guy launching from NSW
[12:58] <Darkside> but i'm pretty sure he goes inland to launch
[12:58] <Darkside> somewhere near parkes
[12:58] <Valen> whole bunch of inland there
[12:59] <Darkside> yeah
[12:59] <Valen> i wonder how those winds change depending on the day
[12:59] <Valen> and time
[12:59] <Darkside> we're lucky in adelaide as we have a whole lot of inland to the east of us
[12:59] <Darkside> and thats where most of our balloons go
[12:59] <fsphil> and you've still managed to miss :p
[12:59] <daveake> lol
[12:59] <Valen> missing SA is a bad start lol
[12:59] <daveake> At least in the UK we have an excuse :)
[12:59] <Darkside> yeah
[13:00] <fsphil> lol
[13:00] <Darkside> landing in wollongong is a bad ending
[13:00] <Valen> http://projecthorus.org/predict/#!/uuid=ae8f613bc36fc82acaa9afcb1a035e9dc767e073 looks better ;->
[13:00] <Darkside> well, landing offshore of wollongong
[13:00] <Valen> nothing good happens in the gong
[13:00] <Darkside> yeah we didn't get our payload back
[13:00] <Valen> soggy chips there
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[13:00] <daveake> You need to plan for incoming tide and wind*
[13:00] <daveake> *like I did (not)
[13:00] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=1877
[13:01] <Valen> I'd be half tempted to launch it out to sea
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[13:01] <Valen> plan on a water recovery
[13:01] <Darkside> screw that
[13:01] <Darkside> way too hard
[13:01] <Valen> eh give the father in law something to do with his boat ;-P
[13:01] <Darkside> hah
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[13:01] <Darkside> the other problem around sydney is all the damn hills
[13:01] <Valen> he's going to be sitting in it drinking beer anyway, he might as well fish for something good
[13:01] <Valen> i think launching from sydney is a bad idea
[13:02] <G0DJA> Hummmm wonder why 'output' from FL-Digi isn't heard through the speakers...
[13:02] <Darkside> yeah
[13:02] <Valen> its something of a populated area
[13:02] <Darkside> heh
[13:02] <Darkside> but yeah, go inland
[13:02] <Darkside> do a simple gps + micro + transmitter launch first, to get the hang og it
[13:02] <Darkside> then do all teh fancy stuff
[13:03] <daveake> G0DJA You want to listen to what's going in via Line In?
[13:03] <Valen> oh thats fer sure
[13:03] <G0DJA> Trying to output to speakers to hear the RTTY
[13:03] <daveake> Check the sound card settings - there's sometimes an option for that
[13:03] <Darkside> daveake: he's receiving from a SDR though
[13:03] <Valen> http://projecthorus.org/predict/#!/uuid=234a017a546f1d3607e8bb522bbda1839d9c5a67 looks better, and i'm in bega often
[13:03] <daveake> Ah
[13:03] <Darkside> Valen: noo
[13:04] <Darkside> lots of scary hills around there
[13:04] <G0DJA> Got the 'Output' set to be the PC soundcard but no audio out - If I set the SDR program output to that card I get audio...
[13:04] <Valen> my missus rolled a car 8 times down a hill and she's none the worse for wear whats your problem? ;-P
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[13:04] <Darkside> G0DJA:fldigis output is for transmitting
[13:05] Action: Valen is used to rockets, the whole up and down phase is completed in about 10 minutes
[13:05] <Darkside> i dont think theres an audio passthrough option
[13:05] <Darkside> Valen: yeah, ballooning is a bit different
[13:05] <Darkside> they tend to land a long way from the launch site
[13:05] <Hix> daveake, siemens TC-35 ok? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Siemens-TC-35-GSM-Communications-Module-/200522569622?pt=UK_Mobiles_Accessories_RL&hash=item2eb0139796#ht_922wt_664
[13:05] <G0DJA> Hummmm - same problem if I take audio from the 'normal' rig - no audio to PC speakers...
[13:05] <daveake> Hix Yes good choice
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[13:06] <Hix> cool £13
[13:06] <G0DJA> Darkside AH! that would explain it then LOL
[13:06] <Hibby> we've got a hybrid experiment going on at the moment - rocket up, oversized parache back down
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[13:06] <Valen> speeding up the ascent and descent makes a big difference to the range
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[13:06] <Darkside> Valen: of course
[13:06] <Darkside> but then you limit your altitude
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[13:06] <Darkside> not that the predictor shows that
[13:06] <Valen> I was thinking a zero pressure envelope, to negate that somewhat
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[13:07] <Darkside> Valen: you want it to burst
[13:07] <Darkside> not float
[13:07] <Darkside> we've done floating balloons, it's not a good thing
[13:07] <Valen> or you just detach the payload
[13:07] <Darkside> yes, theres always that - a cutdown
[13:07] <Valen> let the balloon float
[13:07] <Darkside> then you have to figure out how to control it
[13:07] <Darkside> do you have a gps fence? an altitude fence?
[13:07] <Valen> same way you do a rocket
[13:07] <Valen> FENCE ALL THE THINGS!
[13:08] <Darkside> heh
[13:08] <Darkside> i don't like gps fences
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander1> xD why did they build that fence across australia?
[13:08] <Valen> gps, baro, timer, manual (if you can swing it)
[13:08] <Valen> keep the rabbits out!
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[13:08] <Darkside> same with the great wall of china
[13:08] <Darkside> keeps the rabbits out!
[13:08] <Valen> zactly
[13:08] <Darkside> (australian joke)
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander1> xD
[13:08] <Valen> damn telstra!!!!
[13:08] <Darkside> haha
[13:08] <Valen> oh hey i might be able to get NBN in a year or so
[13:08] <Hibby> nope, Chuck telstra
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander1> is that like ofcom?
[13:09] <Valen> wewt
[13:09] <x-f> Darkside, why you don't like GPS fences?
[13:09] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander1: nah
[13:09] <Valen> Hibby: oh snap
[13:09] <Valen> oh that has to be a thing
[13:09] <Darkside> i dont like GPS fences because i like to have control over what happens after launch
[13:09] <Valen> chuck telstra
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[13:09] <Darkside> if the weather changes, or we decide we can continue the chase further
[13:09] <Darkside> i'd like to be able to trigger the cutdown manually
[13:09] <Darkside> which is why i want to see the RFM22B work as an uplink receiver
[13:10] <Valen> have you guys put transcievers on the payloads?
[13:10] <x-f> well yes, manual cutdown is way cooler
[13:10] <Darkside> Valen: we've flown radio repeaters
[13:10] Wil5on (~Wil5on@compsci.adl/eternalpresident/wil5on) joined #highaltitude.
[13:10] <Darkside> but no data transceivers (yet)
[13:11] <Darkside> been working on a PCB for that recently
[13:11] <Valen> big rockets come with "manual cutdowns", they usually result in the rocket being returned in pieces of about 20cm average size and a rather nasty talking to
[13:11] <G0DJA> No - looks like this PC isn't up to the job :-(
[13:11] <Valen> well if you guys need stuff made hit me up
[13:11] <Valen> I have a CnC mill and i'm not afraid to use it.
[13:11] <Darkside> eeew
[13:11] <Darkside> i hate milled PCBs :P
[13:11] <Darkside> we have one at uni
[13:11] <Valen> eh they aren't the best thats for sure
[13:11] <Darkside> a milling machine i mean
[13:12] <Valen> i have a real mill, it eats steel
[13:12] <Darkside> also when i can get PCBs made and delivered for about $30 from china, whats the point
[13:12] <Lunar_Lander1> I got a question
[13:12] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frIssODebKA&list=PL04F6B774F23F6873&feature=plcp&context=C3cdd245FDOEgsToPDskKlI0DNuG3mf2N3AcTx5tOZ
[13:12] <Lunar_Lander1> want to make a new wordpress blog now and I think about the URL
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander1> shall I use eurohab.wordpress.com or highaltitudelaboratory.wordpress.com?
[13:13] <G0DJA> I did notice the decode getting jumpy with just FL-Digi running with this chat open as well, so maybe FL-Digi hogging all the PC resources?
[13:13] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander1: how about Hindenhab
[13:13] <cuddykid> eurohab Lunar_Lander1
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander1> xD
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander1> yea
[13:13] <daveake> lol
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander1> HAL might be too long
[13:13] <cuddykid> keep url short as posisble
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander1> yea
[13:13] <costyn> eurohab sounds ok
[13:13] <cuddykid> EUHAB?
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander1> cool!
[13:14] <costyn> G0DJA: dl-fldigi is a hog yes
[13:14] <Hix> HAB-DE
[13:14] <Valen> HABEU you can kinda say it ?
[13:14] <Darkside> DEHAB
[13:14] <Valen> Darkside: snap
[13:14] <Darkside> hey that works
[13:14] <cuddykid> haha - I like that Darkside
[13:14] <Darkside> dehab :D
[13:14] <G0DJA> May need a new PC then...
[13:14] <cuddykid> In de HAB
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander1> XD
[13:14] <Valen> Darkside: so as i was saying if you want anything "real" made lemme know ;->
[13:14] <Darkside> Valen: lol
[13:15] <Valen> beyond PCBs
[13:15] <costyn> G0DJA: if you start dl-fldigi you should e able to see in your task manger (if windos) how much cpu it is eating
[13:15] <Darkside> can you mill me a pony?
[13:15] <Valen> though i have done them
[13:15] <fsphil> 99redhabs
[13:15] <Valen> if you can provide me with a model and its less than 600x200x250 sure
[13:15] <costyn> fsphil: harharhar
[13:15] <Darkside> Valen: that mm?
[13:15] <Valen> yah
[13:15] <costyn> Lunar_Lander1: so whats it gonna be?
[13:15] <Lunar_Lander1> one moment
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[13:16] <Darkside> Valen: http://www.shadowsquirrel.de/models/pony_trophy_pack.zip
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander1> xD
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander1> EUROASCENT
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander1> :D
[13:16] <G0DJA> Only 10% on decode but VSMON taking 70 to 75% !!
[13:16] <costyn> euro-scent?
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander1> xD ascent
[13:17] <costyn> euro, a scent
[13:17] <Lunar_Lander1> hm wait
[13:17] <Lunar_Lander1> xD
[13:17] <costyn> sorry
[13:17] <Hix> €acent
[13:17] <Valen> i'll have to look into it later, need winders to run cad
[13:17] <Darkside> haha
[13:17] <Darkside> i dunno if its even millable
[13:17] <Darkside> http://kp-shadowsquirrel.deviantart.com/gallery/24487513?offset=24#/d3i0xmb
[13:18] <Lunar_Lander1> euroaltitude
[13:18] <Hix> euro attitude
[13:18] <costyn> i liked euro-hab or eu-hab
[13:18] <Darkside> Valen: or this one: http://kp-shadowsquirrel.deviantart.com/gallery/24487513?offset=24#/d3hsg7d
[13:18] <Lunar_Lander1> OK
[13:18] <Darkside> :P
[13:18] <costyn> Lunar_Lander1: but hey it's your site... :)
[13:18] <Lunar_Lander1> xD yeah
[13:18] <Hix> yeah eu-hab is kinda official and cool
[13:18] <Lunar_Lander1> eurohab is good and short
[13:18] <Lunar_Lander1> yeah
[13:19] MoALTz_ (~no@host-92-2-138-173.as43234.net) left irc: Client Quit
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander1> but wordpress only allows euhab
[13:19] MoALTz (~no@host-92-8-227-158.as43234.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander1> dashes or so are not allowed
[13:19] <Valen> buy the domain and do it your self ;->
[13:19] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander1: dehab!
[13:19] <Hix> host it yourself. about €5 a year for hosting and domaqin reg
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander1> that is taken it says
[13:19] <Darkside> aww
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander1> yeah Valen and Hix
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander1> have to look into that :)
[13:20] <Hix> 1and1.de
[13:20] <Darkside> damn i need to go to bed
[13:20] <Valen> Darkside: http://kp-shadowsquirrel.deviantart.com/gallery/24487513?offset=24#/d3i0xmb and a 5 axis machine might possibly work
[13:20] <Valen> same
[13:20] <Valen> anyway catchya
[13:20] <UpuWork> ping Darkside
[13:20] <UpuWork> No antenna = no lock
[13:20] <daveake> Silly Waters & Stanton (radio shop) ... take web order (for an aerial pre-amp kit) on Saturday, no confirmation, so I call just now and get told "Sorry, we're out of stock for 2 weeks". Customer service huh?
[13:20] <Lunar_Lander1> yeah Hix
[13:20] <Darkside> damn
[13:20] <UpuWork> 1/4wave wire : http://i.imgur.com/Jjwok.jpg = time but no lock
[13:20] <UpuWork> in fairness its not quite 1/4 wave I miscalculted
[13:20] <Lunar_Lander1> damn daveake, that is crap :(
[13:20] <fsphil> eek .. W&S are usually pretty good
[13:20] <Darkside> UpuWork: well thats annoying
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander1> xD the "Password Strength" indicator is red and says "Too Short"
[13:21] <Darkside> i might have to stick with the chunky sarantels for a while then
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander1> and I have entered 0 characters
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander1> xD
[13:21] <cuddykid> does anyone have an implemented rfm22b schematic design?
[13:21] <UpuWork> guess we'll just have to flight test this and see what it does
[13:21] <Darkside> cuddykid: its not that hard
[13:21] <Darkside> you wire up SPI, and wire a few other pins to GPIOs
[13:21] <Hix> Lunar_Lander1, eurohab.eu is avaiable now
[13:21] <cuddykid> I was just wondering about the resistors/caps etc
[13:21] <Darkside> what resistors
[13:21] <Darkside> >_>
[13:22] G0DJA (586f8c70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.111.140.112) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[13:22] <cuddykid> well - if there are any
[13:22] <daveake> fsphil Yeah, the guy on the phone was quick getting my details, and said I should have had a confirmation email.
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander1> Hix: yea
[13:22] <Hix> Lunar_Lander1, .eu £9.99 per year .com £6.99 per year
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander1> yea
[13:22] <daveake> Ordered stuff from Moonraker on the same day and got emails all along the way
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander1> I'll look into that
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander1> have to learn HTML and stuff first
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander1> :)
[13:23] <Darkside> dammit i need to go to bed
[13:23] <Hix> Wordpress is a P.O.P
[13:23] <daveake> HTML? Install Wordpress choose theme job jobbed
[13:23] <Hix> :D
[13:23] <Hix> done did
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander1> does wordpress work on linux?
[13:24] <costyn> Lunar_Lander1: yes
[13:24] <Hix> works on anything serverside
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander1> wait
[13:24] <costyn> waiting...
[13:24] <Hix> still waiting
[13:25] <Valen> if you guys need hosting i can probably hook you up with that provided you dont get /. ;->
[13:25] <daveake> My domains are on a shared server which runs cpanel and has a quick easy installer for WP and loads of other thing
[13:25] <costyn> "the suspense is killing me" <arthur dent>
[13:25] <daveake> s
[13:25] <Lunar_Lander1> wordpress.org ?
[13:25] <Hix> yeah
[13:25] <Lunar_Lander1> OK
[13:25] <Hix> do it
[13:26] <costyn> well you don't have to host it yourself. Google's blogger can be used with your own domain name
[13:26] <Lunar_Lander1> oh
[13:26] <costyn> and it's free too
[13:27] <costyn> so you only have to buy a domainname
[13:27] <Hix> if you buy the domain I'll host it for you
[13:27] <Valen> that'd handle a /.
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander1> I'm just looking at the wordpress package
[13:29] <WillDuckworth> cheers Upu - package received
[13:29] <UpuWork> no problems sorry for taking so long
[13:29] <costyn> UpuWork: I don't think anybody thought you took too long? :)
[13:29] <UpuWork> did
[13:29] <UpuWork> I did
[13:29] <daveake> :)
[13:30] <Hix> UpuWork, record time!
[13:30] <Lunar_Lander1> those instructions seem to be really complicated
[13:30] <Hix> Lunar_Lander1, nah p.o.p
[13:30] <UpuWork> daveake Darkside has raised a legitimate concern about the chip antenna
[13:30] <daveake> Saw that
[13:30] <Lunar_Lander1> what is p.o.p?
[13:30] <Valen> point of presence perhaps?
[13:30] <UpuWork> up you but I'd like to test it
[13:30] <daveake> Lunar - means something is easy :)
[13:31] <daveake> Piece Of Piss
[13:31] <Lunar_Lander1> oh
[13:31] <costyn> lol
[13:31] <gonzo_> proof of purchace
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[13:31] <Lunar_Lander1> can someone tell me in short and easy words what has to be done with the .zip file I downloaded from wordpress.org?
[13:32] <Lunar_Lander1> would be appreciated
[13:32] <Lunar_Lander1> :)
[13:32] <Pavix> extract to your public_html folder, run setup
[13:32] <UpuWork> Darkside that antenna will be tested on March 24th weather permitting
[13:32] <Lunar_Lander1> yea, that is when I would own a server?
[13:33] <Valen> would help
[13:33] <Darkside> UpuWork: its more cycling of the antenna that i'm concerned about
[13:33] <Valen> knowing wordpres admin would help too
[13:33] <Pavix> Or rent one, or borrow a friends, or install one on an infected host
[13:33] <Darkside> i might have to test one in a chamber
[13:33] <gonzo_> (googled for p.o.p. favourite was "Point of Penetration")
[13:33] <Lunar_Lander1> OHHH
[13:33] <UpuWork> ok want me to post you a few ?
[13:33] <Darkside> 00:03 < gonzo_> (googled for p.o.p. favourite was "Point of Penetration")
[13:33] <Darkside> 00:03 < Lunar_Lander1> OHHH
[13:33] <Lunar_Lander1> XD
[13:33] <Darkside> Eeyup
[13:33] <UpuWork> when you say cycling do you mean reusing them on additional flights ?
[13:34] <Darkside> UpuWork: yes
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander1> well I know a man who has a blog like that
[13:34] <UpuWork> ok
[13:34] <Darkside> i'm wondering if the stress will cause it to crack
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander1> but he uses computers since the 1970s or so
[13:34] <Darkside> and i reallyt dont want that happening during a flight
[13:34] <UpuWork> well only one way to find out, they are very small tbh
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander1> I could ask hom
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander1> him
[13:34] <UpuWork> but it should be tested
[13:34] <Pavix> Lunar_Lander1: http://codex.wordpress.org/Installing_WordPress outlines the "Famous 5 minute install"
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander1> OK
[13:34] <UpuWork> btw
[13:34] <UpuWork> 19cm piece of wire doesn't work either
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander1> yeah as I understand them, a server is required
[13:35] <Pavix> of course if your host has softaculous, which it should, you could use that
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander1> OK
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander1> so I need to buy a webspace first?
[13:35] <Pavix> yep
[13:36] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[13:36] <Lunar_Lander1> like these https://wordpress.org/hosting/ ?
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[13:38] <Hix> Lunar_Lander1, http://www.1und1.de/
[13:38] <Lunar_Lander1> ah OK
[13:39] <Hix> nicht so teuer
[13:39] <Hix> sp
[13:39] <Hix> ?
[13:39] cuddykid (~acudworth@128.243.253.217) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[13:39] <Darkside> nn all
[13:39] cuddykid (~acudworth@128.243.253.217) joined #highaltitude.
[13:39] <daveake> nn
[13:39] <Hix> bye
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander1> so I have to buy a domain there
[13:40] <Hix> not necessarily, but you can order a domain and buy hosting. If you just want the domain I can host for you
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander1> I'll have to have a good look into that
[13:42] <Hix> I'll set up a WP for you and when you have a domain you can fwd it to that. I'll let you know when it is set up
[13:43] SamSilver_ (2985f53b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.133.245.59) joined #highaltitude.
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander1> thanks
[13:45] <Hibby> All the cool kids have a tumblr these days
[13:47] <eroomde> so 2011
[13:47] cuddykid (~acudworth@128.243.253.217) left irc: Read error: No route to host
[13:47] <Hibby> fine, a personal subreddit.
[13:50] <Lunar_Lander1> Hix: I'll still try to understand it, I'll go offline for a while to eat and to revise for my exams
[13:50] <Lunar_Lander1> but thanks for your help Hix, Valen and all others :)
[13:50] <Valen> nw
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[13:51] Lunar_Lander1 (~gd-fermi@p54882AF5.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
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[13:57] <Hibby> is Valen short for Van alen?
[13:57] <Hibby> *Van Halen
[13:57] <Hibby> damn keyboard
[13:57] <NigelMoby> crabsticks!
[13:58] <Hibby> If it wasn't for those meddling kids
[13:58] <fsphil> B5 reference?
[13:58] Action: Valen "dd if=/dev/urandom of=Hibby bs=10M"
[13:58] <Valen> B5 yes
[13:58] <fsphil> In Valens name I was right
[13:58] <Hibby> that set the university on fire.
[13:58] <Hibby> I'd have my beloved office and keyboard.
[13:58] <Hibby> Valen: get used to it. Quickly. I'm a constant stream of oddities, and some useful crap too.
[14:00] <NigelMoby> ure not that odd dude :p
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[14:17] Zuph_ (~Zuph@adsl-074-164-245-158.sip.sdf.bellsouth.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:19] <fsphil> well his nick does have an odd number of letters
[14:22] Valen (~Valen@2001:44b8:3199:9100:21e:8cff:fe63:55df) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[14:22] <Laurenceb> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Custom-case-Raspberry-Pi-Model-B-professional-Recycled-/290677470826?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item43adba366a#ht_500wt_1032
[14:24] heathkid|2 (~heathkid@70-9-171-97.pools.spcsdns.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:24] <costyn> heheh
[14:24] <Hix> ping Lunar_Lander
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[14:32] PD3EM_work (c297ab7d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.151.171.125) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[14:36] <joph> @ Laurenceb nice :D
[14:38] <daveake> Q&A is funny
[14:44] <eroomde> me wants a pi
[14:44] <eroomde> just for sbmc really
[14:44] <eroomde> xb*
[14:44] <NigelMoby> no pi only crumble
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> I want one to replace my wifi router, and to add bouncers for IRC and stuff.
[14:46] <eroomde> mmm yeah it'd make a lovely irc remote server
[14:46] <eroomde> might have to do me summa that
[14:46] <daveake> mmm Pi and chips
[14:46] <eroomde> i quite fancy a pie this evening
[14:46] <eroomde> as it happens
[14:46] <daveake> sold out
[14:47] <NigelMoby> mmmm a Clarks pie!!
[14:47] <eroomde> i don't get it
[14:47] <eroomde> but i was thinking chicken and mushroom
[14:47] <daveake> You have to fill in the form where you express an interest in a Fray Bentos Steak & Kidney
[14:47] <NigelMoby> lol dave
[14:49] <daveake> Wonder if I can get any inspiration for tonight's meal here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjckqAU8IkM
[14:51] <NigelMoby> lol
[14:51] <daveake> Even has eroomde's chicken & mushroom pie :)
[14:52] <eroomde> i just snorted out loud at the plate wipe for the sausage and mash
[14:52] <daveake> :D
[14:53] <Hix> http://youtu.be/nRcgGl0RuP8
[14:59] <eroomde> reading up on a new balloon experiment
[14:59] <eroomde> looking at cosmic microwave background
[14:59] <eroomde> and frequencies of 100-220GHz
[14:59] <NigelMoby> oh?
[15:00] <eroomde> yet they still keep referring to 'optics'
[15:00] <NigelMoby> heh, I thought wmap pretty much got the cmb all sewn up?
[15:01] <eroomde> i'd never really thought at what frquency you stop using words like 'dish' and 'antenna' and start using words like optics and ccd
[15:01] <eroomde> not at the frequencies this is looking at
[15:02] <eroomde> apparently
[15:02] <eroomde> but astrophysics is a mytery too me
[15:02] <eroomde> to*
[15:02] <eroomde> mystery*
[15:05] <NigelMoby> can't really see what they're after, unless they are going to refine the temp measurements
[15:05] <gonzo_> the astronomy world are not comfortable with using radio words
[15:10] <upix> Are you all using ublox gps receivers? or are there who uses other receivers?
[15:11] <eroomde> some people use the Lassen iQ
[15:11] <eroomde> for they are foolish
[15:11] Action: daveake sobs
[15:11] <eroomde> for they do not follow the path to enlightenment
[15:11] <eroomde> for they are too easily corrupted by multipath
[15:13] <upix> is there any important reason/difference between max-6 and lea-6 modules?
[15:13] <eroomde> size
[15:13] <eroomde> and power consumption
[15:13] <gonzo_> not much multipath in the sky
[15:14] <eroomde> er let me check claim #2
[15:14] <eroomde> sure but there's multipath off your ground planes in your payload n stuff
[15:14] <daveake> Enlightenment must come little by little - otherwise it would overwhelm. Just like a GPS lock.
[15:15] <eroomde> upix: the max6 can be had 1.8V
[15:15] <eroomde> for really really lower power applications
[15:15] <eroomde> but they're pretty similar as far as anything you might want for ballooning goes
[15:16] <gonzo_> my prototyope has a jupiter12 in. It would certainly keep the payload warm, but the weight of batts it would neber get of the ground
[15:16] <daveake> :-). I used a Jupiter 11 for my first flight
[15:16] <daveake> I've flown a complete payload for less weight than the antenna on that one
[15:17] <eroomde> cusf was i think:
[15:17] <gonzo_> lamost need a car batt for that
[15:17] <daveake> :)
[15:17] <eroomde> ublox 3 or 4, then lassen iq, venus a couple times, ublox since
[15:17] <eroomde> but the badger1 was a lasseniq
[15:17] <eroomde> and that was a vintage flight computer
[15:17] <eroomde> about 100 good nova missions out of it before dumping it into the north sea
[15:17] <eroomde> 10*
[15:17] <eroomde> not 100
[15:17] <daveake> Yeah, my first was (as much as possible) bits I had sitting around
[15:19] <gonzo_> just out of interest, has anyone played with driving cam shutters from a flight computer. Not one with a usb i/f
[15:19] <eroomde> that's how we did it back in the day
[15:19] <eroomde> soldered gets across the camera pcb's to fake button presses
[15:19] <gonzo_> have one on the bench wuith the shutter button wired out. need to i/f to it
[15:19] <eroomde> gets/fets
[15:19] <gonzo_> but looks to be a muxed button
[15:20] <eroomde> canni help you there then, you might just have to draw the state diagram for all the operations and dive in
[15:20] <gonzo_> suppose a fet would work if the cam is floating wrt the computer
[15:21] <eroomde> we had to ground ours with the camera
[15:21] <gonzo_> but if they use weak pullups etc, could get hairy
[15:21] <daveake> relay :)
[15:21] <eroomde> oh lordie
[15:21] <eroomde> just isolate the camera
[15:21] <gonzo_> I was really hoping to avoid that, but do have a low coil current oen on my RS watch list
[15:22] <eroomde> have fets on the camera powered by the camera itself, if you can find its bus somewhere
[15:22] <eroomde> relays should die
[15:22] <eroomde> it's not the old testament anymore
[15:23] <gonzo_> I date back that far
[15:24] <gonzo_> and i tend to go low tech whenever the option is there
[15:24] <daveake> Suffering from life's mortal coil?
[15:24] <eroomde> but relays are bonkers
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[15:24] <eroomde> large currents to generate magnetic fields to pull bits of metal onto other bits of metal, with springs to assert state
[15:24] <eroomde> it's literally barmy
[15:24] <daveake> :)
[15:25] <daveake> Has Sir ever spent any time in a Strowger telephone exchange?
[15:25] <gonzo_> so you think a uniselector is the way then?
[15:25] <eroomde> it's like asking for trouble, putting that in anything that moves
[15:25] <gonzo_> hehe, great minds etc dave?!!!!!
[15:25] <daveake> :-). Horrible deafening things
[15:26] <eroomde> i'm being out-grandpa'd here
[15:26] <eroomde> http://www.analog.com/en/interface/digital-isolators/adum1300/products/product.html
[15:26] <daveake> lol
[15:26] <eroomde> one of them
[15:26] <eroomde> and local gets
[15:26] <eroomde> fets*
[15:26] <gonzo_> I was tempted to make a small mech exchange for the house, in a glass case of course
[15:26] <gonzo_> to go with my mech tty
[15:26] <daveake> I'm being out-sdded
[15:26] <daveake> sadded
[15:26] <eroomde> that's what i'm using (well, a bidirectional one) on the hedgehog to completely isolate the uart to the outside world
[15:26] <gonzo_> and rotary dial phones
[15:27] <number10> damn - Ive missed old blokes session again.... must go back to sleep
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[15:27] <daveake> I'm sure there'll be another one when you wake up
[15:28] <gonzo_> go back to yyour afternoon nap
[15:28] <number10> :)
[15:28] <gonzo_> (which prob trumps all)
[15:31] <Randomskk> eroomde: wombat progress: I can upload code over serial bootloader and jtag (but not usb bootloader), but can't compile code that doesn't make it instantly hardfault...
[15:31] <Randomskk> the gps works, but the smps is still being very very sad
[15:31] <Randomskk> it draws 800mA at 4V to provide 100mA at 3v3
[15:31] <Randomskk> and dissipates all the excess inside itself
[15:31] <Randomskk> I say 100mA, that's a bit ballpark. if I just power the 3v3 directly it draws around 50mA
[15:31] <Randomskk> so something is very wrong
[15:31] <Randomskk> which I knew what
[15:32] <Randomskk> wish*
[15:32] <Randomskk> I made up a second PCB with just the 3v3 smps
[15:32] <Randomskk> but, no go
[15:32] <gonzo_> decent caps, good to high freqs? and fast diodes?
[15:33] <Randomskk> all X5R or X7R reasonably decent 0603 or 0402, no diodes involved
[15:33] <daveake> Randomskk What smps?
[15:33] <daveake> I had something that sounds v similar to that
[15:34] <daveake> Low volts (like, a single partly charge AA level) and the i/p current shoots up
[15:34] <Randomskk> this is 4V though
[15:34] <daveake> This was the Sparkfun lipo thing
[15:34] <Randomskk> from a bench supply
[15:34] <eroomde> Randomskk: hrm
[15:34] <daveake> Ah
[15:34] <eroomde> that is a sad panda
[15:34] <Randomskk> daveake: is it their "power cell"?
[15:34] <Randomskk> because it's the same chip as that
[15:34] <eroomde> you've put a scope on the various bits of the smps?
[15:34] <Randomskk> TPS61200 (well the -01 in this case for 3v3 fixed)
[15:34] <daveake> Yes, I used a bench supply. As the voltage got down towards 1.something volts, the current went up a lot
[15:34] <Randomskk> eroomde: not yet, haven't had time
[15:35] <gonzo_> I ended up using linear reg, asn the wasted power can keep the payload warm
[15:35] <Randomskk> eroomde: also it has no pins and all the passives are 0402, just to make life easy :P
[15:35] <Randomskk> daveake: yea, well I mean, I'd expect that
[15:35] <Randomskk> but not from a 4V supply
[15:35] <daveake> Yeah same chip
[15:35] <daveake> Went up disproportionally quickly
[15:35] <Randomskk> also my voltage cutoff thing wasn't working - I had a 1M1 resistor and a 100k resistor forming the divider to UVLO, but it was cut off until about 4.5V input (should be 2V8 by my maths)
[15:36] <Randomskk> also more to the point, at that input it smokes
[15:36] <Randomskk> so definitely unhealthy
[15:36] <daveake> Mine hit the current limit on the PSU. Didn't dare turn that up
[15:37] <Randomskk> I had the current limit on then increased it to see, it went up to 800mA before stopping drawing any more current (and correctly providing 3v3, too...)
[15:37] <Randomskk> hmm my capacitors were admittedly all 6v3 rated
[15:37] <eroomde> i'd get a scope on it asap
[15:37] <Randomskk> yea I will be doing so
[15:37] <Randomskk> ordering new chips and parts in case I need to solder another up over the weekend too
[15:37] <Randomskk> (for the psu at least)
[15:38] <eroomde> buggeration
[15:38] <Randomskk> really annoying
[15:38] <Randomskk> next potential lauch is monday if I get code working and the psu working
[15:38] <Randomskk> I can bodge a linear reg onto the 3v3 rail if I really had to
[15:38] <Randomskk> but it'd be really crap >_>
[15:38] <eroomde> yeah
[15:38] <Randomskk> very frustratingly the only PCB issue so far is the 6pin header being wrong and the GPS antenna keying being wrong
[15:38] <eroomde> linears are not cool
[15:38] <Randomskk> i.e. the two largest features on the board >_>
[15:38] <Randomskk> oh well
[15:39] <eroomde> my biggest issue today is the price of a picoblade crimp tool
[15:39] <Randomskk> they are tres cher
[15:40] <eroomde> gotta be done though
[15:40] <Randomskk> typ
[15:40] <Randomskk> yup*
[15:40] <eroomde> snipe-nose crimping is so maddeningly retardedly stupid i'm ashamed i ever did it
[15:40] <Randomskk> btw that 2x5pin 50mil pitch connector is pretty nice for jtag
[15:41] <eroomde> ah cool
[15:41] <eroomde> i'll bear it in mind
[15:43] <Randomskk> http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=534
[15:43] <eroomde> oh nice
[15:43] <eroomde> now you're talking
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[15:48] <Randomskk> did you see http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6942136617 http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6796016350 btw?
[15:54] <nigelvh> Damn you put some tiny crap on there. I try not to use much smaller than an 0805. Granted, I have to design my boards to be built by others as well....
[15:55] <Zuph_> Anyone using less than 0603 for handmade boards is a masochist.
[15:55] <Randomskk> there are only like
[15:55] <Randomskk> 80 or so
[15:55] <Randomskk> 0402s on there
[15:55] <Randomskk> soldering them by hand is really fine
[15:55] <Randomskk> it's just debugging with probes that's a pain
[15:56] <Randomskk> the ESD protection chips on the USB ports are much worse actually
[15:56] <Randomskk> if you can spot them...
[15:56] <Randomskk> frankly the USB connectors are absolutely tiny
[15:56] <Randomskk> they are so small I thought I made a mistake when I got the boards back
[15:57] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6793049100
[15:57] <nigelvh> Looks like those are micro-usb connectors?
[15:58] <Randomskk> yea
[15:58] <nigelvh> (in contrast to mini-usb)
[15:58] <nigelvh> Still not sure why the hell they did that. They look about the same size to me.
[16:09] <eroomde> saves 5 cents
[16:10] <Randomskk> there are some mechanical considerations
[16:10] <Randomskk> micro usb has the part that wears out in the cable (whereas mini had it in the connector)
[16:10] <Randomskk> plus it's much lower profile, which is important for phones and such
[16:10] <Randomskk> you can actually buy micro usb connectors that mount in the middle of a pcb, sitting inside a cutout
[16:10] <Randomskk> also there's micro AB for host mode stuff
[16:10] <Randomskk> and the PCB footprint is like half the length...
[16:11] <Randomskk> right, well, extra parts ordered
[16:11] <Randomskk> I'll scope it up later
[16:11] <Randomskk> hopefully suss it
[16:11] <Randomskk> hopefully it won't be a board issue...
[16:12] <eroomde> indeed
[16:12] <eroomde> fingers crossed
[16:12] <zyp> Randomskk, there were mini AB too
[16:12] <Randomskk> well true but like nothing used it :P
[16:12] <Randomskk> as if not we can reuse the photomasks and just change the routing layer for the antenna cutout
[16:12] <zyp> mini A is now deprecated in favor of micro A, but mini B is still fine
[16:12] <Randomskk> not that the photomasks really matter...
[16:12] <zyp> actually, I have a device with a mini A port
[16:12] <Randomskk> zyp: meh, 'still fine' but I'm trying to get rid of it mostly in favour of micro
[16:12] <zyp> so am I
[16:13] <zyp> just make sure to get the kind of connectors that you don't rip off the boards
[16:13] <Randomskk> yea :P
[16:14] <Randomskk> right, work time :(
[16:14] <Randomskk> debugging continues later
[16:14] <Randomskk> hopefully I'll sort out the code generation too, then I can test the radio...
[16:14] <zyp> I had enough of that shit in a work project, so I soldered cables directly to the boards
[16:14] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Stratosphere - New Scientist feature including high altitude life"
[16:15] <zyp> on the hobby board I'm currently waiting for, I chose connectors with pth-mounted shield
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[16:23] <eroomde> nowadays i do simple wee board connectors broken out to something manly and panel-mounted
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[16:42] <cuddykid> right, I've almost reached the utmost level of annoyance with HK post
[16:42] <daveake> Nah, I bet there are several levels to go
[16:42] <cuddykid> last level is catching a flight over there and doing the job myself!
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[16:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Stratosphere - New Scientist feature including high
[16:55] <eroomde> daveake: "Customs Clearance, February 29, 2012, 5:24 pm, GREAT BRITAIN"
[16:55] <eroomde> PROGRESS ^
[16:56] <eroomde> meter and I will be united soon
[16:56] <daveake> ooer
[16:56] <daveake> good :)
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[16:56] <eroomde> i need my max and mean
[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL> I need my min and my nice
[16:57] <cuddykid> eroomde: where's it coming from?
[16:58] <eroomde> i get it Dan-K2VOL
[16:58] <eroomde> cuddykid: ah-mer-ree-kah
[16:59] <cuddykid> ahh good job it's not HK/China - you'd be waiting years
[16:59] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[17:01] <cuddykid> tonight I should be paid my interest from santander isa - then it's a ditch and switch as they're utterly useless
[17:01] <daveake> eroomde I bought that "Dive in to Python" book. Arrived today. Will start reading this evening.
[17:02] <eroomde> cool - tho it is free online too!
[17:02] <daveake> yeah I have a link :)
[17:02] <daveake> Prefer a book really
[17:02] <cuddykid> I grabbed a pdf of learn python the hard way - going through it slowly :P
[17:02] <daveake> Nice to get away from the computer
[17:03] <cuddykid> I'm not a big fan of no braces though :(
[17:04] <eroomde> it's nice
[17:04] <daveake> Occam did the indentation thing
[17:04] <eroomde> you'll get used to it
[17:04] <Hix> dive into python - needs consideration http://votrube.ru/uploads/posts/2008-08/1217879362_3.jpg
[17:04] <cuddykid> yeah - I'm going to stick with it :D
[17:04] <daveake> Hope he braced himself
[17:04] <cuddykid> hohoho
[17:07] <daveake> Car passed the MOT without anything needing fixing :)
[17:08] <UpuWork> always a result
[17:08] <jonsowman> daveake: <3 406
[17:08] <daveake> Yep 406
[17:08] <daveake> 212,000 miles now
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[17:09] <jonsowman> i'm still on 211,500 daveake
[17:09] <daveake> I've had 2 trips last week or so
[17:11] <jonsowman> ah i see
[17:14] <UpuWork> not far to go until you hit the mean distance from the earth to the moon...
[17:14] <daveake> That's my target then :)
[17:14] <UpuWork> 238855
[17:15] <daveake> Hopefully it'll last another year or two. That'll be enough I think
[17:16] <cuddykid> does anyone have any spark fun microSD sockets hanging around?
[17:16] <kokey> daveake: that's full of win, how old's the car?
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[17:19] <eroomde> cuddykid: try a cusf person
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[17:19] <daveake> Nearly 15 years
[17:20] <eroomde> current cusf, i should say
[17:20] <cuddykid> will do eroomde, thanks
[17:20] <nigelvh> My old car had more than 280,000miles on it. and my present has 238,000
[17:21] <jonsowman> cuddykid: what's special about the sf ones?
[17:21] <cuddykid> jonsowman: I've done a pcb with that footprint
[17:21] <cuddykid> otherwise I'd have got a bunch off ebay
[17:22] <jonsowman> cuddykid: we probably have some, we'll take a photo of the ones we have tomorrow and you can examine them
[17:22] <cuddykid> cheers jonsowman :D
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[17:32] <upix> is 20$ normal price for BMP085 sensor. or maybe you know better stores than sparkfun
[17:32] <eroomde> sparkfun is often not the cheapest
[17:33] <eroomde> try mouser and farnell
[17:33] <eroomde> mouser.com, farnell.com
[17:33] <upix> thanks
[17:34] <NigelMoby> or...
[17:35] <NigelMoby> coolcomponents
[17:35] <cuddykid> or proto-pic
[17:35] <cuddykid> or RS
[17:35] <eroomde> uk based
[17:35] <NigelMoby> they do the sensor + breakout
[17:35] <cuddykid> or robosavyy
[17:35] <eroomde> which is not so helpful to upix
[17:35] <cuddykid> oh - where is upix based?
[17:35] <NigelMoby> where's he based?
[17:35] <eroomde> it's like a chorus of a musical
[17:36] <NigelMoby> lol
[17:36] <cuddykid> lol
[17:36] <Hix> Lithuania
[17:36] <eroomde> slovenia wasn't it upix?
[17:36] <eroomde> oh sorry
[17:36] <NigelMoby> close...
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[17:37] <NigeyS> fruit shortie anyone? :D
[17:37] <eroomde> ?
[17:38] <NigeyS> http://www.hillbiscuits.com/images/150g-fruit-shorties.jpg
[17:38] <eroomde> now it's all clear
[17:38] <NigeyS> :D
[17:39] <NigeyS> cannot decide what to do for dinner
[17:39] <NigeyS> could be lazy and get a chinese...hmmmmm
[17:39] <eroomde> am gonna make a pie
[17:39] <eroomde> chicken and mushroom
[17:39] <eroomde> with taragon and mustard sauce
[17:39] <eroomde> it is decided
[17:39] <NigeyS> mmm
[17:40] <NigeyS> ive never tried making a pie yet
[17:40] <eroomde> and it can be done in 30 mins if i channel enough jamie
[17:40] <upix> wtf fungus pie
[17:40] <upix> yuck
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[17:40] <NigeyS> lol
[17:40] <NigeyS> dont knock the fungus, chessnut mushrooms are gorgeous!
[17:41] <cuddykid> shame there isn't another launch this evening - last night was quite fun :P
[17:41] <eroomde> mushrooms are where it's at
[17:41] <number10> and picking your own wild ones is great
[17:42] <eroomde> never had the balls to do that
[17:42] <eroomde> but if i see wild mushrooms in the covered market i am all over them like a rash
[17:42] <NigeyS> snap, i'd probably pick all the deadly ones :/
[17:42] <number10> I have been doing it for a while - a small amount of dried ceps in your pie would be nice
[17:43] <jonsowman> cuddykid: another one soon... cusf test launch in the next few days with any luck
[17:43] <cuddykid> oh good stuff jonsowman
[17:43] <number10> midweek jonsowman ?
[17:43] <jonsowman> depends how Randomskk gets on with debugging it :)
[17:43] <cuddykid> also possibly WillDuckworth might launch at the weekend - but prediction aren't looking great
[17:43] <jonsowman> but everything is basically ready to fly
[17:43] <eroomde> cuddykid: i'll be sending one up in the next few weeks too
[17:43] <eroomde> aeolus i think i'll go for
[17:43] <cuddykid> brill
[17:44] <eroomde> my first launch since the breakup
[17:44] <jonsowman> are you launching from here eroomde?
[17:44] <cuddykid> my time will come in April hopefully if the donkey gets a move on
[17:44] <cuddykid> hopefully initial tests of the glider will come in April time
[17:44] <NigeyS> all im waiting for is a notam and i'm good to go :/
[17:45] <jonsowman> once i have a bit more time i'm going to continue with that crystal pulling radio i was going on about at the ukhas conf
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[17:46] <cuddykid> much more fun doing launches in spring/summer than winter as I found out from my last one
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[17:57] <fsphil> +1
[17:58] <upix> can anyone explain me between absolute and absolute gauge
[17:58] NickB1 (~NickB@d54C3B15F.access.telenet.be) joined #highaltitude.
[17:59] <NickB1> Good news
[17:59] <NickB1> Launching on tuesday
[17:59] <NickB1> Hitching a ride with a meteorologic balloon
[18:00] <fsphil> </professor farnsworth>
[18:00] <NickB1> *Good News Everyone
[18:00] <staylo> too late, you had your chance
[18:00] <fsphil> ooh the best kind of launch
[18:00] <fsphil> someone else doing it
[18:00] <x-f> nice :)
[18:01] <NickB1> haha indeed
[18:02] <x-f> so you're doing a hidrogen launch, right?
[18:03] <NickB1> Yes i thin they use hydrogen
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[18:03] <x-f> could you please film the filling process if they allow you that?
[18:04] <NickB1> ok
[18:04] <NickB1> I'll try
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[18:05] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
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[18:09] <x-f> (took me nine minutes, to get the "professor farnsworth" joke)
[18:10] <NigeyS> lol
[18:11] <nigelvh> shmeesh
[18:11] <x-f> i'm making pancakes!
[18:12] <NigeyS> mm pancakes!
[18:15] <cuddykid> yum
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[18:16] <cuddykid> a lil bit of sugar and lemon = delicious
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[18:26] <priyesh> has anyone here got a lassen iq willing to sell?
[18:27] <Upu> I think daveake_ has
[18:28] <NigeyS> ive got 1
[18:28] <NigeyS> on 1 of james's breakouts
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[18:36] <upix> how do you calculate parachute size
[18:37] <Hix> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:parachute_sizing_chart
[18:38] <Daviey> I'd really like to revist the UAV retrieval method, but using a ram air canopy
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[18:40] <cuddykid> Daviey - I'm working on UAV retrieval using a flying wing :P - initial testing will begin soon :D
[18:41] <Daviey> cuddykid: why use a wing, and not a ram air canopy ?
[18:41] <Daviey> well, a fixed wing, specifically
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[18:41] <cuddykid> Daviey - stability, less likely to tangle and I can use an off the shelf autopilot to do the main work
[18:42] <cuddykid> I personally don't think a guided chute is the way to go
[18:42] <hhallam> plus it's hard to go supersonic with a chute
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[18:43] <Daviey> hhallam: you are kidding, right?
[18:43] <upix> supersonic? wtf?
[18:43] <hhallam> well the best part about dropping a fixed wing from 30km is the Vne dive
[18:44] <Daviey> hhallam: seriously? How would you determine the VNE?
[18:45] <cuddykid> the flying wing won't initially free fall - it'll be attached to a chute and then cut away around 18km in altitude
[18:45] <hhallam> it's probably more of a Mmo than a Vne, since at altitude the indicated airspeed can be < 100m/s at M >= 1
[18:45] <cuddykid> otherwise the speeds will be insane and probably snap it :P
[18:46] <hhallam> make it out of carbon and ensure the servos and control linkages are nice and strong to resist flutter, and it'll be fine*
[18:46] <hhallam> *ly dusted over the landscape below
[18:46] <cuddykid> well - yeah, that's a route to go down, but for first prototypes they're being made out of strong EPP
[18:47] <Daviey> The major concern is surely stability, at that altitude i'd expect it to have a very low stall speed and spin al the way down, and unlikely to be able to stabilise from.
[18:48] <cuddykid> well - the air density starts to pick up around 15km
[18:49] <NickB1> Carbon can also be a little hard on the head :)
[18:49] <Hix> wouldn't EPP crush up thar
[18:51] <cuddykid> space grade EPP shouldn't :P
[18:52] <Hix> Ahhh you need EPU
[18:52] <Hix> or a thin skin of fibreglass mat over it
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[18:53] <cuddykid> the design and construction of the wing is in the hands of an expert :P runs his own flying wing company and has done sort of similar projects before
[18:53] <cuddykid> so I'm leaving it to him for the time being :D
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[18:58] <Hix> you need to get in touch with felix Baumgartner. Right I'm going to get the fuck outta dodge - i.e the office l8r
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[19:01] <daveake_> ping priyesh
[19:01] <priyesh> daveake_: hey
[19:02] <daveake_> Just catching up ... you need a Lassen IQ?
[19:02] <priyesh> not anymore - NigeyS has been kind enough to donate one
[19:02] <daveake_> damn
[19:02] <daveake_> I mean good :)
[19:02] <priyesh> daveake_: just for the record - did you have one?
[19:02] <daveake_> Severa;
[19:02] <daveake_> l
[19:03] <priyesh> how much would it cost for 1st class / next day from you?
[19:03] <priyesh> just in case
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[19:03] <daveake_> I paid £10-something for these, so say £11 inc postage/JB
[19:03] <priyesh> ok - will let you know if something disasterous happens
[19:03] <daveake_> np
[19:04] <daveake_> offer stands for anyone else too
[19:04] <daveake_> I have probably 7 spare
[19:04] <Hiena> Hiya all!
[19:04] <Hiena> So, how many Raspberry Pi owner here?
[19:04] <priyesh> daveake_: do you have the GPS -> SMA lead too?
[19:05] <jonsowman> the little connector on the lassen is HFL
[19:05] <priyesh> that's it
[19:05] <priyesh> was trying to remember
[19:05] <daveake_> Need to check. I think I have 1 spare SMA and one MMCX
[19:06] <priyesh> daveake_: could you price up an iQ, HFL->SMA and 1st class delivery please?
[19:06] <priyesh> that would be awesome
[19:07] <daveake_> Sure, I'll check what I paid for the connector
[19:07] <daveake_> I programmed all the Lassens to send GGA and RMC, and put them in "Air" mode
[19:08] <priyesh> ah - will need GGA and VTG
[19:08] <priyesh> which is air mode again?
[19:08] <daveake_> I can do that if you want :-) Or you plug the lead into a USB-TTL adapter
[19:08] <daveake_> It has modes for fixed position, land, sea, air
[19:10] <priyesh> okay
[19:10] <daveake_> No I don't know exactly what the difference is :-)
[19:10] <priyesh> daveake_: continue on pm so we don't spam this channel :P
[19:10] <daveake_> You can download free s/w to set the modes
[19:17] <zyp> «continue on pm so the channel can be dead and noone else can hear anything interesting»
[19:17] <griffonbot> Received email: NickB "[UKHAS] Falcon - Launch Annauncement"
[19:17] <priyesh> zyp: hehe :P
[19:19] <daveake_> lol
[19:19] <daveake_> hey, buy some of my stuff and I'll talk to you on PM too :)
[19:20] <jonsowman> haha
[19:20] <cuddykid> meanwhile, in HAB world, daveake_ provides a pay for friendship service
[19:21] <zyp> daveake_, are you selling anything cool? :p
[19:21] <cuddykid> arch, oh why oh why you stupid java applet
[19:21] <cuddykid> *argh
[19:22] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: have you had to use the diabolical website that is webct?
[19:23] <daveake_> zyp, Not sure Lassen IQs count as "cool" :)
[19:23] <zyp> me neither
[19:24] <zyp> and I need to check whether these antenovas are cool or not first
[19:24] <cuddykid> anyone fancy a thorntons easter egg for 1p?
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[19:25] <cuddykid> #highaltitudedelicacies presents...
[19:25] <cuddykid> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/thorntons-lemon-meringue-easter-egg-for-1p-via-simply-tap-banofee-pie-eton-mess-1157523
[19:28] <fsphil> yay, home sweet home
[19:29] <NickB1> Is there somebody who can process a flight doc?
[19:29] <cuddykid> NickB1: try on #habhub
[19:29] <NickB1> thx
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[19:54] <daveake_> Wow - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WI-SYS-WS1357-15-HFL-ANTENNA-GPS-EMBEDDED-15CM-/251002805603?pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item3a70eedd63#ht_499wt_1111
[19:55] <daveake_> Seen some really silly prices on ebay lately
[19:55] fsphil-laptop (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:219:d2ff:fe09:a6b9) joined #highaltitude.
[19:56] <Hix> bargain - I wonder why they have more than 10 available
[19:56] <daveake_> Should be able to buy 10 for that :)
[19:57] <daveake_> Even Farnell have them for £28
[19:58] <daveake_> Last ones I bought were £5.99
[20:04] <Upu> £73 !?
[20:04] <Upu> Ask a question -> click -> "Price wtf lol"
[20:05] <Upu> oh thats the same company who were selling something else at a stupid price
[20:05] <fsphil-laptop> that the guys selling the £80 uart thing?
[20:06] <Upu> yup
[20:06] <Upu> the AVR programmer
[20:06] <daveake_> Ah, yes. Wonder if they ever sell anything
[20:11] NickB1 (~NickB@d54C3B15F.access.telenet.be) left irc:
[20:12] <fsphil-laptop> gives me hope for my £5 note shop (£10 each)
[20:12] <Upu> bah dum
[20:12] <gonzo_> well the royal mint does that, commemerative £5 coins for far more
[20:13] edmoore (~edmoore@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust639.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:13] <gonzo_> (though was at a car boot and a friend managed to haggle £5 coild for £2 each)
[20:13] <gonzo_> coins
[20:14] <edmoore> Hedgehog v0.1 pcb (not routed out yet): http://db.tt/H7gS7mtE
[20:14] <daveake_> fsphil-laptop Send the fivers up with your next flight, then sell as "Space Money" at a vast profit
[20:14] <daveake_> Try not to land in the sea this time :)
[20:15] <fsphil-laptop> hah
[20:15] <fsphil-laptop> easier said than done
[20:15] <Upu> not routed ?
[20:15] <Upu> oh cut out
[20:15] <Upu> rgr looks good
[20:17] <edmoore> Rgr?
[20:18] <Upu> ROGER
[20:18] <Upu> oops
[20:18] <Upu> eroomde
[20:18] <daveake_> rgr moore
[20:18] <Upu> what is "atmospheric woowoo" ?
[20:19] <Hix> Ha, stage 1 pass - Arduino putting RTTY out through the NXT2 and recieving on AR8000
[20:19] <Upu> congrats Hix
[20:19] <Hix> I just wish the rest of the hilll was less steep
[20:19] <Hix> :D Ta
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> I love that bit .. seeing "hello" decoding on the screen
[20:20] <Hix> Hello was too boring, It's spitting out profanities on 434.075
[20:20] <Hix> Childish but fun
[20:20] <Upu> lol
[20:20] <Upu> you've not met the HAM police yet ?
[20:20] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:20] <Hix> I'll code them where to go
[20:20] <fsphil-laptop> the van outside with antennas on the top is not ofcom
[20:21] <Hix> not a kebab seller either
[20:21] <Upu> its a 57 year old called Derek
[20:21] <Upu> who is angry with you
[20:21] <Hix> Dereck can
[20:21] <Hix> signal faded :)
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[20:26] <griffonbot> @DutchMillbt: Announcement high altitude balloon flight #ukhas FALCON 6th of March 12.00 GMT Ukkel/Uccle BE #hamradio 434.650 Mhz http://t.co/lIuJw7ZP [http://twitter.com/DutchMillbt/status/175316199062765569]
[20:28] <edmoore> Upu: It's where you distort free space path loss physics so that you always get a signal
[20:29] <Upu> oh yeah a technique frequently utilised by "poo heads" :)
[20:29] <Upu> did give me a lol @ 6.30 this morning
[20:30] <edmoore> I was in a happy place on the bass home this morning
[20:30] <edmoore> Bus
[20:32] <edmoore> 6 portions of chicken pie and veg, £22 in ingredients from sains. Love cooking
[20:32] <Upu> and the wine ?
[20:33] <edmoore> That includes one bottle
[20:33] <edmoore> Half of which went into the pie
[20:33] <Upu> white ?
[20:33] <edmoore> Half I am polishing off with the pie
[20:33] <edmoore> Yep
[20:33] <fsphil-laptop> wine pie?
[20:34] <edmoore> Chicken and mushroom pie, in a white wine, tarragon and mustard sauce
[20:34] <Upu> sounds great
[20:35] <edmoore> Tis yum
[20:35] <edmoore> With some carrots and broc
[20:36] <Upu> thanks for the idea for next weeks tea
[20:36] <Upu> fsphil http://i.imgur.com/2JxMO.png ta da
[20:36] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/z4Fjt.png
[20:36] <edmoore> It's grand. I still have a big pie dish full of it for tomorrow and lunches next week
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> it's a thing of beauty!
[20:37] <Upu> how with 100% less retarded errors!
[20:37] <Upu> behold how RX connects to TX and not vice versa
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> the electrons will be much happier this way
[20:37] <Upu> 58mmx67mm
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> that's the smaller ublox chip yea?
[20:39] <Upu> yes
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> it's no bigger than the avr
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> amazing
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> I'm feeling brave, ordered a BMP085
[20:39] <Upu> actually could do with a few more vias
[20:39] <Upu> I have one here
[20:40] <Upu> I've moved everything onto the top so I can reflow it
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> sweet
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[20:47] <daveake_> Upu nice
[20:47] <Upu> bit larger than your bug
[20:47] <daveake_> happy electrons are good electrons
[20:47] <daveake_> True
[20:48] <fsphil-laptop> happy electrons have potential
[20:48] <Upu> thats 2 bad jokes in one evening fsphil
[20:49] <daveake_> He's cutting down then
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[20:51] <eroomde> i'm liking the direction of pun this channel is taking
[20:51] <eroomde> i know that's not a universally held view
[20:53] <eroomde> he, The Transporter is on Channel 5 at 9
[20:53] <eroomde> PERFECT
[20:53] <eroomde> i couldn't think of a more ideal film for this evening to go with the rest of this bottle of wine
[20:53] <eroomde> stupid, but not too stupid
[20:53] <eroomde> i haven't seen it recently enough to remember much of the plot
[20:54] <eroomde> but despite that there is a tiny bit of plot (compared to transporters 2 and 3, 3 being quite astonishing)
[20:54] <NigeyS> ed! how was ure pie?!
[20:54] <eroomde> NigeyS: delicious thanks
[20:54] <eroomde> a proper pie
[20:54] <eroomde> sod the pieminister cookbook
[20:54] <fsphil-laptop> was it called Billy?
[20:54] <NigeyS> haha awsome!
[20:57] <eroomde> it was not called billy
[20:57] <eroomde> it's more of a carmela
[20:58] <fsphil-laptop> I had some pasta and mince today, was pretty good
[20:59] <eroomde> just turned the tv on
[20:59] <eroomde> went to poirot
[20:59] <eroomde> 'monsieur langdon should really have piurchased a better padlock for his backdoor'
[20:59] <eroomde> *giggle*
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> they still show that
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> must be ancient by now
[21:01] <cuddykid> eroomde: how about you do the catering for the next conference? :P :D
[21:01] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: itv3 is poirot on a loop
[21:01] <eroomde> david suchet ones
[21:01] <eroomde> rather than peter ustinov
[21:02] <eroomde> cuddykid: pulled pork
[21:02] <eroomde> totally on it
[21:02] <cuddykid> eroomde: brilliant - sounds delicious
[21:02] <eroomde> pulled pork, my bbq sauce which the pork would have cooked in, some homemade baps and properly crap motorway service station coleslaw
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[21:02] <eroomde> it's food perfection
[21:02] <cuddykid> sounds it!
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> coleslaw -- possibly the worst sounding name for any food
[21:03] <eroomde> my friend announced she didn't much like pork
[21:03] <eroomde> she didn't 'get' it
[21:03] <eroomde> i soon showed her
[21:03] <daveake_> eroomde Waitrose do a great Boston joint for pulled pork
[21:03] <eroomde> pulled pork one day, roasted belly stuffed with black pudding and apple the next
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[21:03] <eroomde> daveake_: ooo good tips thanks
[21:04] <cuddykid> eroomde: when are we seeing you on masterchef?
[21:04] <eroomde> im not eating meat as much as i'd like to atm
[21:04] <eroomde> save for tonight
[21:04] <daveake_> Our local store don't have it but the one in Marlborough does
[21:04] <eroomde> old work was by a really really good butcher
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> #hamaltitude
[21:04] <eroomde> on the farm itself - they just directly sold their pigs and cows
[21:04] <cuddykid> hahaha
[21:04] <cuddykid> fsphil-laptop: such a joker
[21:04] <eroomde> their steaks were all hung 3 weeks at least. it was a wonderful wonderful place
[21:04] <cuddykid> oh wow
[21:04] <eroomde> but now i'm nowhere near that place and it's sad
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> cuddykid, actually there really is such a channel
[21:05] <cuddykid> oh right, even better!
[21:05] <eroomde> cuddykid: baking is my backup plan if rockets dont work out
[21:06] <cuddykid> sounds a good plan eroomde :D
[21:07] <eroomde> jason statham's accent is dire
[21:07] <eroomde> good lord
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[21:15] <cuddykid> "This item is being processed for delivery to the addressee" - arghhh!
[21:15] <cuddykid> you have 1 more day HK post
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> this would make a great Twilight Zone story... "Out For Delivery"
[21:16] <cuddykid> haha yes
[21:16] <cuddykid> somehow I don't think it will arrive tomorrow - on RM website -> "There is no data currently available for this tracking reference. Please try again later."
[21:16] <cuddykid> damn you!
[21:16] <eroomde> good news from nickb
[21:17] <priyesh> cuddykid: i found it takes exactly 7 days from leaving hong kong to arring at my door
[21:17] <eroomde> on the list
[21:17] <cuddykid> priyesh - cheers :) - it was supposedly shipped by seeed on the 23rd
[21:17] <eroomde> my multimeter is in GB according to my tracking reference
[21:17] <eroomde> which is a relief
[21:17] <cuddykid> originally ordered on the 15th
[21:18] <cuddykid> eroomde: I guess you'll probably get it tomorrow or sat :D
[21:18] <priyesh> cuddykid: any idea when it HKP show it as leaving HK?
[21:18] <cuddykid> priyesh: nope, it's just been on "processing" all the time
[21:18] <priyesh> eek
[21:18] <cuddykid> since the 28th - nothing appeared for the 1st 5 days lol :S
[21:20] <eroomde> cuddykid: it'll be parcelforce
[21:20] <eroomde> so they'll sit on it for 2 weeks and charge a £20 handling fee
[21:20] <eroomde> 'handling fee'
[21:20] <cuddykid> noooooo! really?!
[21:21] <cuddykid> It's only worth £9 lol
[21:21] <eroomde> they are pathetic
[21:21] <eroomde> i need them to go out of business
[21:21] <eroomde> i need market forces to be allowed to take their course
[21:21] <fsphil-laptop> yea, I didn't put enough stamps on a letter to NigeyS once and they charged a handling fee that was way more than the letter was actually worth
[21:21] <cuddykid> from all my postage experience now - unless it's UPS/DHL/Fedex the rest is mostly crap
[21:21] <eroomde> exactly
[21:21] <daveake_> I had £6 duty/VAT to pay on my DSO :p
[21:21] <eroomde> always fedex for stuff ordered abroad
[21:21] <cuddykid> eroomde: probably been propped up by the bloody gov
[21:21] <daveake_> They put down "Value £25" lol
[21:22] <NigeyS> yeah they wanted £1.12p for a crystal worth 20p! lol
[21:22] <eroomde> they are royal mail so yep
[21:22] <cuddykid> government intervention nearly always leads to bad things
[21:22] <cuddykid> inefficiencies
[21:24] <eroomde> mmm
[21:24] <eroomde> it's like being italian
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[21:24] <NigeyS> evening Steve
[21:25] <RocketBoy> yo
[21:28] <danielsaul> Hi RocketBoy
[21:29] <danielsaul> Could you confirm you've received an order from Sutton Grammar / J Costello today...?
[21:31] <RocketBoy> pm
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> C peoples ... passing a "uint8_t *p" to a function specifying "const uint8_t *p" is ok yea?
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> I'm never sure if I'm using const properly
[21:32] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: nobody ever is
[21:32] <jonsowman> what are you saying is constant?
[21:33] <jonsowman> the pointer or the data located _at_ the pointer?
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> the data being pointed at
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> although it might not always be
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> I'm writing out some data, some of it is const - never changes
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> but I sometimes call the same function with modified data
[21:34] <nigelvh> Not sure why a function should care if it's a constant....
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> I've declared the data as const, and gcc complains when I pass that to a function that doesn't expect it
[21:35] <jonsowman> consts are so confusing
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> const uint8_t stuff[] = { 0x00, 0x00 } for example
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> I may pass that to this function
[21:35] <jonsowman> okay
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> but I may also pass just a plain byte array, non-const
[21:36] <jonsowman> but the function doesn't modify the data at the pointer?
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> nope
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> which is why I think it's fine
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> but not sure
[21:37] <nigelvh> I assume you're trying to save ram by defining the constant array?
[21:37] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: const uint8_t* ptr;
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> I know it probably doesn't
[21:37] <jonsowman> is what you want
[21:37] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: if the function also doesn't modify the pointer
[21:37] <jonsowman> then
[21:37] <jonsowman> const uint8_t const* ptr;
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> the order matters?
[21:38] <jonsowman> yeah
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> oh wait two consts
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> *head explodes*
[21:38] <jonsowman> it's ridiculously unreadable
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> so that's a constant pointer to constant data
[21:38] <jonsowman> correct
[21:40] <jonsowman> don't you just love C
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> hehe... static const uint8_t const app0[14] = { ....
[21:41] <jonsowman> clear as mud
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> the compiler seems happy with me passing non-const stuff so I guess it's fine
[21:42] <jonsowman> cool
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> I'm sure it'll break in the future
[21:42] <jonsowman> haha
[21:42] <jonsowman> probably at the most annoying time
[21:43] <fsphil-laptop> so is it legal to point a non-const pointer at the const data
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[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Only if it does not exceed 5mW
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:44] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: yes that's fine
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> just as long as I don't try to modify it
[21:44] <jonsowman> say you have a string in ROM (const data), you can iterate over it with a pointer that you increment for each byte
[21:44] <jonsowman> that'd be fine
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[21:48] <hhallam> -Wall -Werror is your friend
[21:50] <fsphil-laptop> doesn't -Wall imply -Werror?
[21:51] <fsphil-laptop> aah
[21:51] <eroomde> Daviey: are you still about?
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> it turns warnings into errors
[21:52] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: yep
[22:00] <PD3EM_shack> Is there a calendar feed of launches somewhere? It would be nice to have all launches in iCal....
[22:01] <_Hix-Android> Good idea. Can the Google group not host one?
[22:02] <_Hix-Android> And iframe it on ukhas
[22:03] <PD3EM_shack> good ida _Hix-Android
[22:03] <PD3EM_shack> mv id idea
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[22:03] <PD3EM_shack> mv ida idea
[22:03] <daveake_> I suggested it 2 weeks ago :)
[22:04] <_Hix-Android> If whoever admins the Google group sets one up ill do the has page
[22:04] <PD3EM_shack> daveake_: we should have a history on #highaltitude ;-)
[22:04] <daveake_> we do
[22:05] <daveake_> http://ci.habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20120208.html
[22:05] <daveake_> then search down for "google calendar"
[22:05] <daveake_> I rest my case :D
[22:06] <PD3EM_shack> thanks daveake_ ! I've been away from IRC to long
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[22:06] <PD3EM_shack> Any news on your payload TimZaman ?
[22:06] <priyesh> daveake_: eroomde also suggested it in April 2011
[22:06] <daveake_> :)
[22:06] <daveake_> About time it happened then :)
[22:06] <TimZaman> PD3EM_shack: its on the move DHL says its crossed the border from Koln/Cologne/Keulen
[22:07] <TimZaman> supposed to be fully intact
[22:07] <daveake_> Some payloads seem to get tracked by DHL more than by us
[22:07] <_Hix-Android> Hey Tim is it being tracked this time :p
[22:07] <TimZaman> 100% destroyed lipo's though :)
[22:07] <PD3EM_shack> TimZaman: Good news!
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[22:07] <TimZaman> _Hix-Android: nah the batteyr only had juice for something like 24h
[22:07] <TimZaman> but there was a nichrome heater in there of around 1Q
[22:08] <TimZaman> 1W
[22:08] <TimZaman> actually a bit more
[22:08] <_Hix-Android> Figured with the temps :)
[22:08] <PD3EM_shack> TimZaman: If the GPS is still recording data you can do a backlog on the track ;-)
[22:08] <TimZaman> PD3EM_shack: no just the first 24h
[22:08] <TimZaman> i guess it only tracked it to the finders house, which is always fun to see
[22:08] <TimZaman> but generally, it reboots after it lands
[22:09] <TimZaman> except when it lands on the water, then the impact is way less i guess (first time that happened there was no reboot)
[22:09] <TimZaman> or it might be my shabby connections
[22:09] <TimZaman> but this time i actually hot glued the radio to the PCB, one reason why there was so very little drift
[22:11] <PD3EM_shack> It worked great with indeed very little drift. Was another thing yesterday with the decent of APEX3
[22:11] <TimZaman> what do you mean?
[22:12] <PD3EM_shack> on the APEX decent the signal drifted very fast yesterday....
[22:12] <TimZaman> wow geez the apex light sensors didnt work too well eh
[22:13] <TimZaman> yeah i had that too when i had bad insulation
[22:13] <TimZaman> super important
[22:13] <PD3EM_shack> What TX did you use?
[22:13] <TimZaman> radiometrix as everyone
[22:14] <PD3EM_shack> Thinking about a launch myself in the future and looking for a good setup ;-)
[22:15] <TimZaman> LOL was there the methane and the CO sensors on board? i have those too
[22:15] <priyesh> TimZaman: the light sensors were fine - it's just that we launched just as it got dark
[22:15] <priyesh> so within very little time there was no/little light to detect
[22:15] <TimZaman> yeah yeah priyesh just noticed that sorry i didnt know it was night launch i just saw
[22:15] <priyesh> hehe - no problem :P
[22:15] <TimZaman> too bad it landed in the sea, thats so super crappy of being in the UK
[22:15] <priyesh> it wasn't originally planned to be a night launch..
[22:15] <_Hix-Android> Not night launch 16:00 ISH
[22:16] <TimZaman> ISH +3?
[22:16] <priyesh> TimZaman: yeah - launching in the US, mainland EU or Africa would be awesome
[22:16] <priyesh> _Hix-Android: it was late.. more like 1800
[22:16] <TimZaman> priyesh: well holland is a very safe bet
[22:16] <PD3EM_shack> I hoped it would float a little longer on 31 km
[22:16] <TimZaman> launch was around 1750
[22:17] <_Hix-Android> priyesh sarcasm sorry
[22:17] <TimZaman> nice thing about holland is that the winds are always blowing to the eastish
[22:17] <priyesh> _Hix-Android: hehe - irc + sarcasm
[22:17] <priyesh> TimZaman: yeah
[22:18] <fsphil-laptop> bad thing about the UK is that the winds are always blowing to the eastish
[22:18] <TimZaman> and the german people so far have been 100% honest in returning so that is also good
[22:18] <priyesh> yep
[22:18] <TimZaman> fsphil-laptop: :)
[22:18] <fsphil-laptop> well not always east, this week here it seems to be going north or south
[22:18] <TimZaman> phil, are you working on somehting new? -just asking?-
[22:19] <fsphil-laptop> fixing up the ssdv code atm
[22:19] <TimZaman> with what?
[22:19] <fsphil-laptop> fixed a few bugs, improved the image quality a bit, and added a callsign to each packet
[22:19] <fsphil-laptop> I've also made space for the quality level setting
[22:20] <fsphil-laptop> not implemented that yet though
[22:20] <TimZaman> nice
[22:20] <fsphil-laptop> it should also work with all the uart cameras now
[22:20] <fsphil-laptop> even the linksprite
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[22:21] <_Hix-Android> You've got cameras on uart? Intrigued
[22:21] <TimZaman> _Hix-Android: quality is pretty fair too
[22:21] <fsphil-laptop> yep.. they output jpeg images
[22:21] <TimZaman> _Hix-Android: costly imo though
[22:21] <fsphil-laptop> they are
[22:22] <fsphil-laptop> the linksprite is cheaper though
[22:22] <TimZaman> true
[22:22] <fsphil-laptop> and seeedstudio have a fairly cheap one now too
[22:22] <TimZaman> y
[22:22] <TimZaman> though still i think my method of imagepicking was awesome
[22:22] <fsphil-laptop> TimZaman, the blocky image problem you noticed was a rounding error
[22:22] <_Hix-Android> I just bought a tiny Panasonic lumix, purely coz of leica lens and low weight
[22:23] <TimZaman> _Hix-Android: yeah my dad's got that one, the exact same leica copy
[22:24] <_Hix-Android> All lumix have leica lens. Think mine was dmc-fx7
[22:25] <TimZaman> yeah but i mean the leica
[22:25] <TimZaman> leica brand with leica lens which is exactly the same as the panasonic
[22:25] <_Hix-Android> Ahh dunno that. I'm a nikon bod
[22:25] <TimZaman> Leica-branded lenses are used on many Panasonic digital cameras (Lumix) and video recorders. These lenses are manufactured by Panasonic to Leitz quality standard
[22:26] <TimZaman> so in fact they are Panasonic lenzes :)
[22:26] <_Hix-Android> :( marketing schmarketing
[22:27] <_Hix-Android> Still can't really launch my nikon glass
[22:27] <TimZaman> havent you seen? the exact same one you have, is available without the name Panasonic, but with Leica, and it costs 100E more
[22:27] <_Hix-Android> No ill look when I'm at a computer
[22:28] <TimZaman> in terms of DSLR i guess nikon and canon are the most serious
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[22:29] <_Hix-Android> Yeah but loads of consumer level brands now gaining. Pro bodies its still the same old war. Least in 35mm terms. Dig 35
[22:29] <TimZaman> y
[22:29] <TimZaman> just bought the 5d mk2 canon
[22:29] <TimZaman> i had nikon only too
[22:30] <_Hix-Android> It's a winner that body.
[22:30] <TimZaman> but then i noticed nikon lagging behind so i switched
[22:30] <TimZaman> yeah turns out the 5dmk2 is from 2008!!!!!!
[22:30] <TimZaman> hahaha
[22:30] <TimZaman> but i thouht, damn thats a durable cam
[22:31] <_Hix-Android> Yeah one thing that passes me off is nikon discrete shutter steps which are big
[22:31] <_Hix-Android> I've got D2X its basically a hammer with optics
[22:32] <fsphil-laptop> you can't touch it?
[22:32] Action: fsphil-laptop already has his coat
[22:32] <_Hix-Android> Dun dun de dun dun de dun dun de dun
[22:32] <TimZaman> :)
[22:33] <fsphil-laptop> My canon dslr is pretty old, I can't even remember the model number now
[22:34] <TimZaman> 1?
[22:34] <TimZaman> Canon 1
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[22:35] <fsphil-laptop> well Tim, it's a .. oh
[22:35] <_Hix-Android> Ha
[22:36] <fsphil-laptop> actually it's a 450D
[22:36] <_Hix-Android> Ooh nearly light enough to send up...
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[22:37] <_Hix-Android> My body alone is ~1kg
[22:37] <fsphil-laptop> it's too heavy even for the telescope
[22:37] <_Hix-Android> Camera obviously
[22:37] <fsphil-laptop> I was going to ask lol
[22:38] <_Hix-Android> Try putting a D2X on an 80 apo scope :/
[22:38] <fsphil-laptop> I could never get the focus right when doing astrophotos
[22:39] <fsphil-laptop> the 450d doesn't have a live preview so it was mostly guesswork
[22:39] <_Hix-Android> I'll send you a link to some focus software for Canon. Open source.
[22:39] <_Hix-Android> Not now though hard enough irc on a phone
[22:40] <Randomskk> fsphil-laptop: huh? the 450 has live preview...
[22:40] <fsphil-laptop> ooh
[22:40] <Randomskk> doesn't it?
[22:40] <_Hix-Android> Remind me tomorrow
[22:40] <fsphil-laptop> mine doesn't
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[22:40] <eroomde> i think we should ukhas crowdsource a cheapo hab space telescope
[22:40] <Randomskk> ...?
[22:40] <Randomskk> eroomde: a hab-mounted telescope?
[22:40] <eroomde> camera,mirror, stabilisation etc
[22:40] <eroomde> yeah
[22:40] <Randomskk> I wonder if anyone's done any work on that in the past....
[22:40] <eroomde> see if we can do pretty astrophotography from above the atmosphere
[22:40] <Randomskk> fsphil-laptop: got yours handy?
[22:40] <eroomde> yes obviously i have looked at it in the past
[22:41] <fsphil-laptop> oh sorry it's a 400D I have
[22:41] <eroomde> but time and money to do an entire system
[22:41] <Randomskk> fsphil-laptop: aaah :P
[22:41] <eroomde> with imaging, star cameras etc
[22:41] Action: fsphil-laptop can't read
[22:41] <_Hix-Android> Global mounted
[22:41] <eroomde> i reckon you could get such a thing down to about 4kg
[22:41] <fsphil-laptop> I want to attach the exposure trigger to a tilt sensor
[22:41] <fsphil-laptop> have it open the shutter each time the payload is at rest
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> should get lucky and get some shots
[22:42] <_Hix-Android> Nice thinking
[22:42] <_Hix-Android> Lag though
[22:42] <_Hix-Android> On shutter
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> ah maybe
[22:43] <_Hix-Android> D2X 38ms but too heavy
[22:45] <eroomde> i think i can make a decent pointing system
[22:45] <fsphil-laptop> I don't know my cameras too well (clearly :)
[22:45] <eroomde> of the order of 30 arcseconds holding accuracy
[22:45] <eroomde> IFF there's something that can provide feedback to that kind of resolution
[22:45] <eroomde> so not mems gyros or nothing
[22:45] <eroomde> more like, as a isay, a star camera
[22:45] <eroomde> the rest we can sort out with deconvolution
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> like an optical mouse, but with a zoom lens
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> use the ground to track movement
[22:46] <eroomde> yeah
[22:46] <eroomde> though i would be inclined to jsut use the stars
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> oh wait that doesn't help actually stabilising it
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[22:46] <eroomde> they're ultrastable very high contrast point sources
[22:46] <eroomde> you couldn't really ask for a better thing
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> none too bright though
[22:46] <eroomde> well, bright enough
[22:46] <eroomde> with the right sensor
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[22:47] <eroomde> and again the contrast is so good that you can crank the exposure right up
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[22:48] <fsphil-laptop> would you try to hold the payload steady, or use some kind of tilting mirror to stablise the cameras view?
[22:48] <Dan-K2VOL> nice idea on the telescope
[22:48] <eroomde> i'd try and hold the payload steady
[22:48] <eroomde> approximately steady
[22:48] <_Hix-Android> Mirrors would be easier
[22:48] <eroomde> say to 30 arcseconds (which is about what i thought you could realsitically get when i did some sums)
[22:48] <_Hix-Android> Hack a usm lens
[22:48] <eroomde> and then do the rest in software, tho 30 arc seconds is pretty good anyway
[22:49] <eroomde> yeah certainly a 2-stage stabilisdation has merit
[22:49] <_Hix-Android> Plus aligned image stacks
[22:49] <eroomde> rough pointing to +/- 1 degree, more conventional image stabilisation used in pro lenses ontop of that
[22:50] <fsphil-laptop> lots of short exposures, use the sensors to work out where it's aiming, and stack accordingly
[22:50] <eroomde> but, i really think you could do good enough without the 2 stage system
[22:50] <Dan-K2VOL> here's a nice paper on a consumer telescope used for japanese balloons: http://spaceflightsystems.grc.nasa.gov/SSPO/SP/Balloon_Platform/documents/Balloon%20Workshop/Presentations/Takahashi.pdf
[22:50] <Dan-K2VOL> not a small one though
[22:50] <eroomde> the results you could get from a reaction wheel are pretty surprisingly nice
[22:50] <Dan-K2VOL> 600kg
[22:51] <_Hix-Android> Takahashi are beautiful scope
[22:51] <_Hix-Android> S
[22:51] <fsphil-laptop> the air is pretty thing but would propellers be useful enough to hold the payload still?
[22:51] <Dan-K2VOL> _Hix-Android the one in the paper is a Meade :-P
[22:51] <eroomde> i don't think so
[22:52] <eroomde> but you can still use them
[22:52] <eroomde> in my design, i had a reaction wheel for yaw
[22:52] <eroomde> and then propellors to desaturate the reaction wheel
[22:52] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil-laptop - maybe for very crude pointing
[22:52] <_Hix-Android> Just saw text in link
[22:52] <fsphil-laptop> aah
[22:52] <Dan-K2VOL> eroome, you have a nice yaw reaction mass available at float - the balloon
[22:53] <eroomde> so the reaction wheel needs to have angular acceleration to provide a force, and if you have some small constant external torque on the payload for whatever reason, the reaction wheel would have to constanbtly acelerate
[22:53] <eroomde> so use a fan or the balloon harness to destaurate into
[22:53] <fsphil-laptop> how much power would the reaction wheel need to operate?
[22:53] <eroomde> yes indeed Dan-K2VOL - that was my preferred option
[22:53] <eroomde> couple the payload to the balloon by means of a dc motor or something
[22:53] <eroomde> to desat the reaction wheel
[22:53] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: not much
[22:53] <fsphil-laptop> although the weight of a few extra batteries might actually help in this case
[22:54] <eroomde> maybe 1W
[22:54] <fsphil-laptop> oh that's fine
[22:54] <eroomde> it really depends on the forces it's having to fight
[22:54] <eroomde> but if conditions are nice and stable at float, the forces on the payload are super low
[22:54] <fsphil-laptop> I suspect at 30km once it's still, it'll stay pretty still
[22:54] <Dan-K2VOL> how much mass would the wheel have to have, do you think?
[22:54] <eroomde> it's just a question of removing nonlinearities
[22:54] <eroomde> like stictions
[22:55] <eroomde> i reckoned about 400g
[22:55] <eroomde> but actually it resally depends
[22:55] <Dan-K2VOL> ah, just use your battery pack
[22:55] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[22:55] <eroomde> i have some sketches in my notebook for a really low friction reaction wheel for balloon payloads at our scale
[22:55] <eroomde> hich i'd like to build soon
[22:55] <eroomde> which*
[22:56] <eroomde> cos little things like bearing stiction are quite significant when you want to hold something of 4-5kg to within 20-30 arcseconds
[22:57] <eroomde> it's different on these big balloon lofted telescopes like blast
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[22:58] <_Hix-Android> Skf do some sweet ceramic bearings these days
[22:58] <eroomde> yeah
[22:59] <eroomde> it was skf's smalled open self-aligning bearing at one end
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[22:59] <eroomde> and a mechanical pencil lead in a convex cone (this needs a diagram for explanation probably) at the other
[23:00] <eroomde> smallest*
[23:00] <Dan-K2VOL> though really, if you have a good accelerometer/inertial measurer, couldn't you just post-process the photos back to clarity?
[23:00] <eroomde> and then the whole thing would be basically a custom pancake motor
[23:00] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: it's no panacea, and i think it'd have to be star camera based
[23:01] <eroomde> as gyros/acclerometers wont get you much better than half a degree
[23:01] <eroomde> which is about 60 times too much
[23:01] <Dan-K2VOL> well, it may just make the damands of the pointing system a little less precise
[23:01] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[23:01] <eroomde> indeed
[23:01] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
[23:02] <eroomde> but, if you can build an atitude contro, system (acs herein for the sake of my fingers) that meets spec, why wouldn't you?
[23:02] <Dan-K2VOL> cost?
[23:02] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[23:02] <eroomde> er yes
[23:02] <_Hix-Android> Has lunar been about? Set him up a wp site
[23:02] <eroomde> still, i'm not sure you could get good enough shake paths for deconvolution without something like a star camera anyway
[23:03] <eroomde> and if you have that feedback source anyhoo, you might aswell use it real-time right :)
[23:04] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah the star camera sounds like a good idea
[23:04] <Randomskk> https://www.circuitlab.com/editor/
[23:04] <Randomskk> this is amazing
[23:04] <Dan-K2VOL> certainly, but to do 30 arcseonds, man
[23:04] <eroomde> we just need a star camera
[23:05] <eroomde> we need someone with experience of image processing and hab
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[23:05] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop this is your cue to say something
[23:05] <fsphil-laptop> _Hix-Android, I suspect Lunar is only allowed on during the day
[23:05] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[23:05] Action: fsphil-laptop thinks of a pun
[23:06] <_Hix> :D
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[23:06] <_Hix> No I havent
[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> I think the star camera should be flown on it's own to begin with anyway
[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> if it's sensitive enough to see stars, it should be sensitive (with some stacking afterwards) to produce some pretty interesting images
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[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> the massive temperature drop might cause problems with the optics though
[23:09] <eroomde> yes certainly
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> but would actually help the sensor
[23:09] <eroomde> everything would need lots of develoment testing
[23:09] <_Hix> Theory aside. That payload would hurt to lose
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> totally
[23:09] <Dan-K2VOL> lots of dry ice, lots of flights :-)
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> it won't launch from N.Ireland that's for sure :)
[23:10] <_Hix> :D
[23:10] <fsphil-laptop> wales would probably be the best bet, lots of landing space over england
[23:10] <eroomde> heh, i've gotten over that mental hump
[23:10] <eroomde> i've had my sleepless nights fretting about launches
[23:10] <eroomde> with £15k of hardware
[23:10] <_Hix> Russian or Iranian airspace neither :boom:
[23:10] <eroomde> and the potential to kill things
[23:10] <fsphil-laptop> I've have sleepless nights with £50 worth of hardware
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[23:11] <fsphil-laptop> actually less, cause it survived the last flight so it was technically free
[23:11] <fsphil-laptop> _Hix, I was wrong!
[23:11] <Randomskk> eroomde: sleepless nights making said hardware too, if I understand correctly :P
[23:11] <_Hix> ?
[23:11] <_Hix> Live preview?
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[23:11] <eroomde> just sleeplessness
[23:11] <_Hix> Hi
[23:11] <eroomde> in general
[23:11] <Randomskk> hehe
[23:11] <fsphil-laptop> _Hix, aah you must have missed it
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> BFBS hosts Heaven's Gate!
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:12] <fsphil-laptop> Astrohab
[23:13] <eroomde> hobble
[23:13] <fsphil-laptop> habble
[23:13] <eroomde> trouble
[23:14] <fsphil-laptop> hubble really was trouble
[23:14] <fsphil-laptop> but it was worth it
[23:14] <eroomde> would make a pretty cool UKHAS2 launch
[23:14] <eroomde> Habble
[23:14] <eroomde> ukhas1 was a bunch of seapate payloads on a string
[23:14] <_Hix> Babble
[23:14] <eroomde> this could be a bunch of subsystems in one awesome payload
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> well I can certainly get some live previews of the images :)
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> well, live ish
[23:15] <_Hix> Kewl
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah got a question
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> what exactly was UKHAS 1?
[23:16] <eroomde> with the benefit of a faster thing with a camera interface?
[23:16] <eroomde> eg gumstic
[23:16] <eroomde> gumstix*
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> was it only one all-society flight so far?
[23:16] <eroomde> ukhas1 was a launch done by a bunch of ukhas member
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:16] <eroomde> where there were 4 payloads
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> ooh, the raspberry pi
[23:17] <eroomde> and now we change the subject quickly
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> BFBS is cool!
[23:17] <_Hix> Got 2 reserved
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> celestron make a usb CCD camera
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> that might make a good star tracker
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> BFBS Heaven's Gate
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:18] <fsphil-laptop> http://www.harrisontelescopes.co.uk/acatalog/Celestron_NexImage_CCD_Camera.html
[23:18] <fsphil-laptop> hmm.. wonder if he's a relation
[23:18] <eroomde> nice
[23:19] <fsphil-laptop> it's about the cheapest usb camera for doing long exposures
[23:19] <fsphil-laptop> also all the usual webcams are cmos and have that awful rolling shutter
[23:20] <_Hix> Sony bulletcam good quality
[23:20] <fsphil-laptop> even if something like this was flown on its own
[23:20] <fsphil-laptop> with the video being recorded
[23:20] <fsphil-laptop> just to see how it preforms
[23:20] <fsphil-laptop> with a fixed lens
[23:21] <eroomde> yeah
[23:21] <fsphil-laptop> although I suppose all that can be tested on the gronud
[23:21] <fsphil-laptop> ground*
[23:21] <fsphil-laptop> or are there better cameras for this job?
[23:23] <eroomde> not sure really. this is outside my area
[23:23] <eroomde> maybe you don't need much resolution, i dunno
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> that's only 640x480
[23:24] <eroomde> mmm
[23:24] <fsphil-laptop> though you'd only be using it to measure motion
[23:24] <eroomde> though maybe 4 times the datarate of 320x240 makes up for lower resolution?
[23:25] <fsphil-laptop> no mention of how many fps it can do
[23:25] <fsphil-laptop> it could be limited
[23:25] <fsphil-laptop> some of the higher end cameras are quite slow at uploading images
[23:26] <_Hix> http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/sony-hq-dnr-1-bullet-camera.html
[23:26] <eroomde> we might have to cool at cooling too
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> _Hix: what do you think of the various "Hong Kong" cameras that are available on ebay?
[23:27] <fsphil-laptop> air cooling it out the window
[23:27] <fsphil-laptop> is*
[23:28] <fsphil-laptop> wonder if just having it outside the insulated box would be enough
[23:29] <_Hix> Dunno ask Cuddykid about delivery tho
[23:29] <fsphil-laptop> _Hix, that camera is analogue - might be too noisy
[23:29] <fsphil-laptop> well they're all analogue, but its PAL
[23:30] <eroomde> hallam is the guy to talk to about this
[23:30] <eroomde> he did something with a conventional pcb-mount camer and a blackfin
[23:30] <eroomde> looking at stars
[23:31] <fsphil-laptop> neat
[23:31] <fsphil-laptop> I tried cooling a regular board camera but it just slightly broke
[23:31] <eroomde> :)
[23:32] <eroomde> the sky is really cold
[23:32] <eroomde> so if we can radiate it to the sky, good
[23:32] <eroomde> just need a big ground sheild of foil to stop the earth warming it up
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> btw, talking about Hong Kong cameras: http://s.gullipics.com/image/9/3/o/5ztofk-j3prvz-smvj/img.png
[23:32] <fsphil-laptop> foil around the payload box, have the camera up on top
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> look at the box
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> what is written on it
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:33] <_Hix> Sheisse
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[23:37] <NigeyS> Height of geoid above WGS84 ellipsoid
[23:37] <NigeyS> in english pls ?
[23:37] <eroomde> wgs84 is a coordinate system used by gps
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS
[23:37] <eroomde> so you can say that the earth is a sphere
[23:37] <NigeyS> ello kev
[23:37] <eroomde> but that's not a very good approximation
[23:38] <eroomde> so then you can say that the earth is a spheroid thats fatter round the middle, and that's all wgs84 is doing
[23:38] <NigeyS> ohh got ya
[23:38] <eroomde> and then you can describe high much higher ground level is above the wgs84 'ground' level
[23:38] <eroomde> sorry sea level, not ground level
[23:38] <eroomde> dodgy nomenclature, my bad
[23:38] <NigeyS> heh forgiven
[23:39] <eroomde> so the geoid number would basically tell you how good an approximation wgs84 is at the point
[23:39] <NigeyS> so im 49.3M above the wgs84 level
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[23:39] <NigeyS> according to this gga sentence
[23:39] <eroomde> by telling you the difference between actual sea level and what wgs84 reckons sea level is with its simplified model
[23:40] <eroomde> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Geoid_height_red_blue_averagebw.png
[23:40] <NigeyS> oh that makes sense now
[23:41] <eroomde> cool
[23:41] <eroomde> a picture speaks a thousand words etc
[23:41] <eroomde> right, i am going to head off
[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> good plan
[23:42] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL fsphil-laptop i shall be mulling over habble
[23:42] <NigeyS> oki Ed, thnx for explaining that, catchy you tomorrow :)
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[23:43] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde I like the name :-)
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[23:53] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Falcon - Launch Annauncement"
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[00:00] --- Fri Mar 2 2012